1 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: This might be the single weirdest automotive reviewing experience I've 2 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: ever had. I think it's just the worst car I've 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: ever tested. 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: What are you doing with a Fisker staring at it? 5 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: Why'd you buy bottle a while ago? 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 3: What do I do with it? 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 4: Burn it? 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 5: Let someone steal it? In York? 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: The car gives me an alarnt here stop vehicle immediately 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: lymph fault? 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 6: Okay, well what does that mean? Out of energy? 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, so am I buddy. 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: The Fisker Ocean is an electric vehicle that came out 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three forget Tesla. This was going to 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: be the future of personal transportation, designed by the mind 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: behind some of the cars and the James Bond movies, 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: a vehicle for people who think differently about the world. 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: After a long wait, the pre orders finally delivered. 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 3: And people would check it out and it would throw 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: error codes. Basically, the car would say like, hello, there's 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 3: something wrong with my software. People had trouble locking and 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 3: unlocking it. You're just kind of like standing outside of it, 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: like hello, help. There were issues where it wouldn't start. 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 3: Once it started, it wouldn't shut off. There were issues 25 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: with the brakes. Sometimes they would slam out of nowhere. Truly, 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 3: so many issues. 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,919 Speaker 2: Arion Marshall is a reporter for Wired magazine. She covers 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: transportation and technology, and the Fisker Ocean fits that beat 29 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: pretty well in a sort of unfortunate way. This car 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: was supposed to be the future, but the software was 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: so bad that a bunch of customers got left with 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: a two point five ton fifty six thousand dollars paper weight. 33 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: Mine has a software update, It won't update. 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, dude, the worst car company ever exist. 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: So what exact actually went wrong? How did Fisker screw 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: things up so badly? And is it just nostalgia or 37 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: are cars in general actually getting worse? 38 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 6: I'm afraid. 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast. This is kill Switch. I'm 40 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: Decorah Thomas. 41 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, goodbye. 42 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: I've said this before on this show, but I'm not 43 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: really a car guy. I don't even own a car. 44 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 2: But if you are into cars, the Fisker brand name 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: was gonna ring a bell. 46 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: Henry Fisker is a Danish car designer. He started off 47 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 3: at BMW, then he ended up going to Ford, where 48 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: he was basically in charge of design for the Aston Martin. 49 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: Again, for the non car people, Aston Martin is the 50 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: luxury car that you see in some James Bond movies. 51 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 7: Where's my bedcham Oh he's headed stay right, Let's never 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 7: let me do Amazon is double A seven. You'll be 53 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 7: using this Aston Martin dB five with modifications. 54 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: He also helped design the Tesla Model S, which is 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: still on the road. And for a while there he 56 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: was like kind of like the Forrest Gump of car design, 57 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: and that he was kind of in the background and 58 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 3: some of the biggest sexiest vehicle releases for about a 59 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: decade there, really like a legendary car designer. In the 60 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: mid two thousands, he decided to start his own automaker 61 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: called Fisker Automotive, and they put out a hybrid vehicle 62 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: called the Fisker Karma. 63 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: You'd think that this would be a great time to 64 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: launch a new hybrid car. There was a lot of 65 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: talk around this time about moving away from gasoline, and 66 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: so Fisker Automotive had a lot of support. 67 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,679 Speaker 3: They had a billion dollars in funding from Kleiner Perkins, 68 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 3: which is a big venture capitalist, from Leonardo DiCaprio, and 69 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 3: also critically the Department of Energy. They got millions and 70 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 3: millions of dollars from the Department of Energy. 71 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 5: So that's why I'm here today to announce two point 72 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 5: four billion dollars to develop the next generation of fuel 73 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 5: efficient cars and trucks powered by the next generation of 74 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 5: battery technologies, all made right here in the USIVA. 75 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 3: And in I think about twenty twelve, the Department Energy says, hey, 76 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 3: Fisker Automotive, you have missed your milestones that you're supposed 77 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: to hit as a part of this money that we 78 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: gave you, So we're actually going to recall millions and 79 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: millions of dollars. 80 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: But Fisker Automotive didn't have the money anymore, and in 81 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: twenty thirteen they declared bankruptcy. 82 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 3: So the American government ended up getting some I think 83 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: it was less than half of their money back from 84 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 3: fitstkg Automotive. The New York Times called Fiskg Automotive the 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: Cylindra of the electric vehicle industry. So this is not 86 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 3: like a low key mess. This is a big public mess. 87 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with Celindra, just know this is 88 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: not a company you want to be compared to. Solindra 89 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: was a solar panel company, and in two thousand and nine, 90 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: the Obama administration made them the poster child for their 91 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: clean energy tech initiative. But two years later they went bankrupt. 92 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: Over half a billion dollars just vanished into thin air. 93 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: Getting painted as another Cylindra is not good for your reputation. 94 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: But then a couple of years past, it's twenty sixteen 95 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: and electric vehicles are getting more traction, so Pinrik Fisker 96 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: decided to give it another try. Now, Fisker Automotive was dead, 97 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: so he starts a new company called Fisker Incorporated. So 98 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: after all that, he comes back and he says, hey, 99 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: we're going to do this again, but we're going to 100 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: do it for real this time. Here's a new car 101 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. What's the value proposition? 102 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: So in twenty sixteen, EV's are starting slowly to get 103 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: more popular. Tesla's kind of the forefront here of EV's, 104 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 3: but more traditional automakers are kind of starting to dip 105 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 3: their toes in and they're realizing that one of the 106 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 3: big problems with EV's is that they don't get a 107 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: ton of range. At the time, they were getting about 108 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: one hundred miles of range reliably, and that's just like 109 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: not enough, Especially in the US where people tend to 110 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: drive a lot. They want to know that they can 111 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: go more than one hundred miles before they have to 112 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: plug in their car again. So I Fisker comes out 113 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: and he says, Hey, we're going to make this car 114 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,559 Speaker 3: that has four hundred miles of range, and that should 115 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: be more than enough to make EV's possible to be 116 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 3: people's only car and for people to like really use 117 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 3: EV's in the way that they're used to using gas 118 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: power cars. So he goes to investors and basically says, 119 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: I think we can kind of beat Tesla at its 120 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: own game, and we're going all in on EV's. 121 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 5: Back. 122 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: Then, the range that Fisker was promising was pretty incredible. 123 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: Four hundred miles is enough to get you from La 124 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: all the way up to San Francisco easy. So Fisker 125 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: gets investors on board and raises over a billion dollars 126 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: over several rounds of funding. And it's not just the 127 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: better range that he's selling. The car was also going 128 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: to be affordable and it was going to look good. 129 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: Remember whatever you want to say about Fisker as a businessman. 130 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: He had a heavy reputation when it came to car design. 131 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: It was going to be, you know, not only a 132 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: car that was great for tree huggers, like something people 133 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: were going to want to show off to their friends. 134 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 3: And then also he was making big promises about the affordability. 135 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 3: The problem that EV's still have is that they're expensive 136 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: and it's hard to get a new one for less 137 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 3: than fifty thousand dollars. So they were targeting around the 138 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 3: forty thousand dollars mark, and even now there are very 139 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: few vehicles sold at that price point, especially like a 140 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 3: really attractive kind of luxury vehicle. 141 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: That luxury electric vehicle was called the Fisker Ocean, a 142 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: fully electric suv which the company claimed would be the 143 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,679 Speaker 2: quote world's most sustainable vehicle. And things were coming together. 144 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: The range looked good, the price was reasonable, it was sustainable, 145 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: so you could feel good about buying one, and they 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: just had an interesting way of going about things that 147 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 2: made a lot of sense. 148 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 5: A lot of. 149 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 3: Automakers make their own cars in their own factories. Fisker 150 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: actually partnered with a legendary car manufacturer named Magna out 151 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 3: of Austria. They have really great reputation for making really 152 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: great vehicles. A lot of people thought it was really 153 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 3: smart that Fisker would make the design for the vehicle, 154 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: they would build the software for it to underpin it, 155 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: but they wouldn't actually be building the cars. 156 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 2: This is kind of making me think like typical sort 157 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: of Silicon Valley mindset in the sense that all right, look, 158 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: we focus on what we're good at. We just do 159 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: the software. We're gonna nail that, and then we're going 160 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: to go get the best manufacturer. We know what they're doing, 161 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 2: we know what we're doing. This is gonna be a 162 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 2: great combination. We're just gonna put these two sides together. 163 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly that. And I think this is one of 164 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: the great innovations of Tesla that I feel like it 165 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 3: is totally undested by a lot of people, but they 166 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 3: really revolutionized how to think of cars as kind of 167 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: software first. 168 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: By twenty nineteen, Fisker has announced the Fisker Ocean. But 169 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,239 Speaker 2: pretty soon things start getting complicated. 170 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: People are starting to put in pre orders. People are 171 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: excited about this car. They said they were going to 172 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 3: start going into production in twenty nineteen. By early twenty twenty, 173 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: there are real signs that something is going wrong at Fisker. 174 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: Fisker and his wife, who who are the co founders 175 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: of this company, they stopped taking pay. By early twenty twenty, 176 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 3: there are reports that they are putting employees on furlough. Now, 177 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 3: what else happens in early twenty twenty, it's the pandemic, 178 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 3: and weirdly, for the auto industry and particularly for these 179 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 3: evy startups, the pandemic is a really exciting time. There 180 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: is this venture capital enthusiasm for these small electric vehicle companies. Again, 181 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 3: this is inspired by Tesla and how much money Tesla 182 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: is worth. It really seems in the early twenty twenties 183 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 3: that electric vehicles were not only coming, but coming really 184 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: really quickly, and that by twenty thirty, you know, maybe 185 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: half of the world was going to be driving in 186 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 3: electric cars. So at this point investors actually kind of 187 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 3: rescue Fisker for a second, and they're able to chuggle 188 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: on and actually produce this car. 189 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 2: In early twenty twenty three, the Fisker ocean starts hitting 190 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: the road. 191 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 6: Fisker is driven by people like you, the innovators who 192 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 6: know that the choices we make today matter for tomorrow, 193 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 6: and like you, we're moving through the world a little differently, 194 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 6: introducing the Fisker Ocean. 195 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: It's a really attractive car. It has some really cool aspects. 196 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: For example, they got a lot of praise for this 197 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 3: feature called California Mode that basically you can press a 198 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 3: button and all of the car's windows come down, So 199 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 3: it's kind of like being in a convertible, but you're 200 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: in an electric suv and they, you know, they have 201 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: a doggy mode where it goes down a little bit. 202 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: So that's really cool with the doggy mode. 203 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: All right, so it's kind of like a sleek, cool 204 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: car that has a lot of little cool boughsand whistles. 205 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: But very soon it seems that the vehicle is having issues. 206 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: Having issues is kind of an understatement. We'll get to 207 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: how bad it really was after the break. All right, 208 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: imagine this. You put down fifty thousand dollars to pre 209 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: order your fisk Or Ocean. Production is delayed, but hey, 210 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: there's a pandemic, so you can cut the company some slack. 211 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: It takes four years, but finally the car is delivered 212 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: and you go outside real excited, but the keyfive dies 213 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 2: so you can't unlock your car. Finally you're able to 214 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: get it unlocked and started up. But then when you 215 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: do that, you can't turn the car off. And then 216 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: the next day you're driving to work and the brakes 217 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: just start slamming automatically out of nowhere in the middle 218 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: of the road. All this and more can be yours 219 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: with the Fisk or Ocean. 220 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: This is only the start. I'm so sorry to say. 221 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: There was a stop sale because there was a cabin 222 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 3: water pump issues. So there was something wrong with the 223 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 3: ceilant around the cabin water pump, and if it started 224 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 3: to leak, the vehicle immediately went into crawl mode. 225 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 2: What is crawl mode? 226 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 3: So it would like to basically stop driving, It would 227 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: just drive very, very slowly. There were issues with door 228 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: handles getting stuck. People reported that they got stuck in 229 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: their car. They would have to break the car windows 230 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: to get out of the car, like they got stuck 231 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: in their vehicle. And then there were you know, little 232 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: issues that are not life threatening, but the kind of 233 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 3: stuff you really don't want to see in a car 234 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 3: that you paid fifty thousand dollars for. You couldn't, for example, 235 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 3: control the way the vents pointed, so if it was 236 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: like really hot, you couldn't make sure that the air 237 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 3: was coming on you and cooling you. Just a lot 238 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 3: of issues, a lot, a lot, a lot of issues. 239 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 2: It seemed that the car is software. Again, the thing 240 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: that Fisker was supposed to be so good at designing 241 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: and building, the thing that made the Fisker Ocean, this 242 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: specialty luxury electric vehicle, was the root of the problem the. 243 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 3: Car company Fisker planned. It seemed to kind of continually 244 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 3: push uploads to this car, so it's the car would 245 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: improve and functionality as people were driving them. But what 246 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: a lot of people said was like, it's not a 247 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 3: great car because I like it's software is kind of broken. 248 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the idea of waiting for basically DLC 249 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: for a car is kind of nuts. 250 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 3: Like, I get it. 251 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: People complain about it. With video games. You buy a 252 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: video game and then the first thing you got to 253 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: do is download a patch because there's some bug in it. 254 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: That's fine, it's a video game, I understand. I expect 255 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: that a car being buggy is something else entirely. 256 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. 257 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: This is where I became aware of the Fiskers. So 258 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 2: I'm not a big car person. I don't have a car. 259 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: I wasn't really in the market for a car, and 260 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: yet somehow I get on YouTube one day and I 261 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: see this video with millions of views, and it's titled 262 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: something like this is the worst car I've ever reviewed. 263 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: Hey, what's up, guys? I was really struggling on how 264 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: to start this video just because this might be the 265 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: single weirdest automotive reviewing experience I've ever had. 266 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: That is the voice of Marquez Brownlee doing a review 267 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: of the Fisker Ocean last year. You've probably heard of Marquez. 268 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: He's better known as MKBHD and he's a tech reviewer. 269 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: More accurately, he's probably one of the single most influential 270 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: tech reviewers out there. He's got twenty million subscribers on YouTube, 271 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: an entire crew that he works with. When tech companies 272 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: make a gadget, they send it to Marquez and then 273 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: they hold their breath. A thumbs up for Marquez Brownlee 274 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: can really boost your reputation. And here he is in 275 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: the driver's seat of the Fitskegrotian. 276 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: Screen flashes between red and blue, which can be pretty distracting, 277 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: especially at night. And I've also had the driver assistance 278 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: systems fail on me several times. I've had the driver 279 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: attention thing beat at me many times before. The software 280 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: in this car, to be totally honest, is a mess. 281 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't think I've started this car one time and 282 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: not gotten some error. You could give me this car 283 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want to drive it. 284 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: There's this like Unfortunately for Visker, this kind of like 285 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 3: no pun intended, like watching a car crash, Like it's 286 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: kind of fun to watch someone just like absolutely pummel something. 287 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: This video that he put out went like megaviral, spawned 288 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: a bunch of think pieces and put a lot of 289 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: attention on what was ultimately a pretty small car company. 290 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: They produced over the course of their life, only about 291 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 3: ten thousand cars, so it's not like there were a 292 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: ton of these all over the place. But this YouTube video, 293 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 3: which of course then became tiktoks and instagram reels and like, 294 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: made its way through the internet, put a lot of 295 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: attention onto Fisker and all of the issues it was having, 296 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: and of course all the issues that its owners for having. 297 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: As well as you would expect Fisker saw that video, 298 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: you'd expect them to do some kind of damage control, 299 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: maybe put out a message on the website saying they're 300 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: going to fix things. Maybe they'd even make their own 301 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: video on YouTube, but you know, Fisker does things a 302 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: little different. And they made a phone call. 303 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: Okay, so we have a. 304 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 5: Customer who we believe bought a car from used blowing 305 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 5: up social media. 306 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: This was a senior engineer at Fisker calling the dealership 307 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 2: that Marquez borrowed the car from, asking to get Marquez's 308 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 2: personal information, which is a little weird. Anyway, The dealership 309 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 2: recorded the conversation and posted it on TikTok and things 310 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: just kept spiraling. 311 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 5: He's talking crap on the Fisker right, Yeah, so you 312 00:17:58,359 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 5: want to talk to him and see if you can 313 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 5: doubt or something. 314 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 7: So you lent some mule car. 315 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 3: Yes, a full of social media. 316 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 7: And I'm just trying to get this into the right context. 317 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: If you could just let me know who this kid is. 318 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: From your standpoint, was that a point and overturn? Do 319 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: you think they could have, you know, hit the pivot 320 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: there or to the point of overturn come earlier. 321 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 3: I'd argue that, you know, it certainly didn't help, but 322 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: the writing was kind of on the wall there. They 323 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: were having a ton of issues and there were so 324 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: many things that were reported to be happening behind the scenes. 325 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 3: It turned out later that Fisker had misplaced millions of 326 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 3: dollars of people's. 327 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: Checks, tons of mechanical issues with the car, terrible reviews, 328 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: and weird financial problems. You probably see where this is going. 329 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: For the second time, a car company that Henrik Fisker 330 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: had promised would be the future of sustainable personal transportation 331 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: declared bankruptcy. Up until now, you've heard the story about 332 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: how this promising car company went under. But what about 333 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: the customers. What if you were one of those people 334 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: who put money down on a Fisker Ocean on a 335 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 2: pre order, waited years for it to come out, and 336 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: you finally got it, and it's not just a lemon, 337 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 2: But the US government is now telling you that it 338 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: is too dangerous to drive. 339 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 3: What do you do? 340 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: Then we'll get to that after the break. Okay, it's 341 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: June twenty twenty four and Fisker has just declared bankruptcy. 342 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 2: This was one week after the US government had issued 343 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: their first recall of the Fisker Ocean for problems with 344 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 2: the car's warning lights. Eventually, there would be six separate 345 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: recalls So if if you were one of the lucky 346 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: owners of a fisk or Ocean, what are your options? 347 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: So when the bankruptcy happened, could you just get a refund? 348 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: The short answer is no, you couldn't just like turn 349 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: in your car for money. 350 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 6: Okay. 351 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: As the bankruptcy has gone on, there have been more 352 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 3: kind of solutions for people who own Fiskers. So some 353 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 3: people have just like dumped them, like they've found someone 354 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 3: who's willing to buy them and dumped them in that way, 355 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 3: of course at a loss. And then as part of 356 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 3: the bankruptcy, there was a settlement that said that you know, 357 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 3: based on the kind of attributes of your car and 358 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,239 Speaker 3: how much you've been driven and you know what kind 359 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 3: of shape it was in, they would give you a 360 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 3: fixed amount for your car, so you could trade it 361 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 3: in in that way. If it was bricked, which so 362 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: many of these are now like they literally don't work, 363 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: you could do that as well. But if you have 364 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 3: a working Fisker Ocean, you can actually trade it in. 365 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 3: They have this relationship now with Ribbon, which is another 366 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: electric vehicle startup, and you can either sell your car 367 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 3: to Ribban for a fixed price, or you can sell 368 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: your car to Ribean and they'll give you a nice 369 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: kind of promotion to buy a Rivian instead. So you 370 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: get thousands of dollars off a new Rivian. 371 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: But not everyone wanted to get their money back. Actually, 372 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: right after the bankruptcy, something kind of amazing happened. 373 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 3: Just a few days afterwards. Fisker owners began organizing online 374 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 3: and it was kind of a remarkable thing to watch. 375 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 3: So quickly they formed the Fiskers Owners Association. There are 376 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: now I think almost five thousand members of this association, 377 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 3: which is pretty remarkable because we think there are about 378 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 3: eight thousand of these vehicles out in the wild, so 379 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: it's like a big percentage of the number of people 380 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 3: actually bought these cars. They quickly organize committees focused on 381 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 3: specific issues. So there were a bunch that focused on 382 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: software issues. There are people focused on finding parts. So 383 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 3: these people, this like band of folks, most of them 384 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 3: that I've talked to are not car people. They're tech people. 385 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 3: So there's a Berkeley computer science professor who's involved in this. 386 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: There's a guy who's a bank regulator in Europe. There's 387 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 3: a guy who spoke to in the UK who's a 388 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: CTO of a telecommunications firm, so really like a random 389 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 3: selection of humanity who happened to buy these cars because 390 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 3: they were excited about them, and a lot of them said, Hey, 391 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 3: I am really passionate about this car. That's a flawed vehicle, 392 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 3: but there are things about it that I love. I 393 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 3: love the way it looks, I love the way it drives. 394 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 3: I spent fifty thousand dollars on it just a year ago. 395 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 3: I want to keep it. Please let me keep it. 396 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 3: And they have created this like all volunteer basically association 397 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 3: that's organized on Facebook, Reddit, they have WhatsApp groups, basically 398 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 3: all organized online to keep this car live. 399 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 2: The r slash Fisker subreddit now has over eleven thousand members. 400 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: It started out as a fan club, but now it 401 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 2: also functions as this kind of emotional support group for 402 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: people who own the car. 403 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 3: I mean, I've been in a few of these groups 404 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 3: for a while and will occasionally just like sign in 405 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: to see what's happening. And there's so much of like, Hey, 406 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 3: I'm in this part of Texas and I'm having this 407 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 3: issue with my car. Do we know anyone any technicians 408 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 3: in the area who know how to fix a Fisker Ocean. 409 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 3: So it's just like amazing collaborative group people who are 410 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: really like so amazingly stubborn. I'm willing to let this 411 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 3: car go and willing to devote hours and hours and 412 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 3: hours of their time to make sure that these cars 413 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 3: can stay on the road. I do think there's an 414 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 3: element of you know, the people who signed up to 415 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 3: get these Fisker Oceans, they were early adopters. They are 416 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 3: a lot of them like fierce believers in electric vehicles, 417 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 3: and they're like ride or die, Like I am an underdog. 418 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 3: I am part of this community that really wants to 419 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: see electric vehicles make a difference in this world, some 420 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 3: of them heavily, you know, kind of environmental bent. It 421 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 3: kind of felt like a sort of like activist choice 422 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 3: to like buy this car, which sounds a little silly 423 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 3: about like they really feel like they're making a difference 424 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 3: in this world. And I think that's partly why it's 425 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 3: hard to let go of kind of the dream of 426 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 3: this car. 427 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 2: But for those few loyal owners who held onto their vehicles, 428 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 2: things haven't really gotten easier. Remember, the idea was that 429 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 2: this car would get better after the software update. Even 430 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: the YouTuber Marquez Brown Lee in his review said that 431 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: he expected the car to improve after it got a 432 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: new software update, but where do you go to get 433 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: that update. 434 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 3: Part of the bankruptcy proceeding, which ended up concluding in 435 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: October of Lack this year, was that Fisker ended up 436 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 3: selling its assets to this company called American Lease. American 437 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 3: Lease operates basically taxi and ride hill vehicles in New 438 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 3: York City. So American Lease ended up taking on I 439 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 3: think about twenty five hundred of these Fisker cars, some 440 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 3: of them very damaged, so they got them for some 441 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: of them for as low as twenty five hundred dollars 442 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: a pop. And they lease these vehicles out to Uber 443 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 3: and Lyft drivers in New York City. So part of 444 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: Fisker's agreement with American Lease is American Lease said, we 445 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: will maintain cloud service for all the Fisker Oceans that 446 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 3: are out there. And cloud service is so important for 447 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 3: any car these days because so many cars are kind 448 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 3: of underpinned by software, but especially for the Fisker Ocean 449 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 3: because so much of it needs software updates all the time. 450 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: So they agree to keep connected services active for these 451 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 3: private owners. But to my understanding, there was a trouble 452 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 3: actually signing the contract, so they kind of men into 453 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: it verbally but didn't really put anything in writing, so 454 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 3: it's kind of handshake. They have a another company take 455 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 3: over the software platform and they end up pushing a 456 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 3: bunch of updates to these Fiskers and it bricks, like 457 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: I think ten percent of them, just like, so that's 458 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: an issue. 459 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 2: Right, by the way, this isn't just an issue with 460 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: Fisker or even with evs in general. The whole software 461 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 2: update brick in your car thing. That's very unusual. But 462 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: software is creeping more and more into our cars, and 463 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: so are the upsales. A couple of years back, BMW 464 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: try to charge eighteen dollars a month for unlocking the 465 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 2: ability to heat up your seats. Volkswagen just announced a 466 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 2: subscription to allow people to unlock the full power of 467 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: the engine that's already in your car for twenty two 468 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 2: bucks a month. Things like parking assistance is getting locked 469 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: behind paywall, and if something goes wrong with that software, 470 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 2: you can't just pop the hood and fix it yourself. 471 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: You have to go back to the car company, who 472 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: gets to decide how to fix it and for how much. 473 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 3: Part of these right to repair issues. Is like I 474 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: own this, Yeah, so I want to be able to 475 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: like fix it, and I don't want to have to 476 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 3: depend on anyone else to operate my vehicle. Because if 477 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 3: I'm depending on this random Uber and Lyft operator in 478 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 3: New York City to fix my car so that it works, like, 479 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: do I really own my car or am I just 480 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: basically like renting it? If I don't own the software 481 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 3: that underpins it, is it my car? 482 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: There is something that almost seems sacrilegious about if General 483 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 2: Motors goes under tomorrow, I can't fix my own General 484 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 2: Motors car. There's something that's fundamentally seems wrong about that 485 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 2: to me. But it looks like that's the way we're headed. 486 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is like the big question that 487 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 3: I'm so interested in because, especially as cars incorporate more 488 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 3: and more software, there's something like fifteen hundred computer chips 489 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 3: in the average EV these days. There's so much software 490 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 3: that goes into these things, so many things that are 491 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 3: controlled by software. I think this is a question that's 492 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 3: going to keep coming up, and it'll be interesting to 493 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 3: see whether through the trials and tribulations of Fisker Ocean 494 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: owners and there's really only kind of like a handful 495 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 3: of them that you know, maybe maybe five thousand of 496 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 3: them at this point. Can we get at some of 497 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 3: these bigger questions about not only car ownership, but like 498 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 3: ownership in general and what it means in the age 499 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 3: of technology. 500 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: What do you think the car market is going to 501 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: look like in the next five, ten, whatever years. Are 502 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: we going to be seeing more cars that are everything 503 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: is software and you can't get into it, and something 504 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: like this could happen? 505 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I mean, it's a really hard question 506 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 3: to answer specifically right now, especially in the US, because 507 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 3: we're undergoing so many crazy changes. But I will say 508 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: that this idea that was pioneered by Tesla, that you 509 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 3: really start car manufacturing with the software is here to stay, 510 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 3: not only because of Tesla, but because of things we're 511 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: seeing in China, where they are the kind of undisputed 512 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 3: kings of electric vehicles. They're pumping out tons of electric 513 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 3: vehicles all the time and selling them all over the world, 514 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 3: and these are like cheap, good electric vehicles. And it's 515 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 3: because of this kind of real tight relationship now between 516 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 3: technology and automaking. So definitely, I think automatingiss kind of 517 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 3: continuing to move in the tech software route. 518 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: If you've been listening for a while, you know that 519 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 2: I keep going back and forth on maybe I should 520 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 2: buy a car, maybe I shouldn't, And this episode is 521 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 2: pushing me toward the I should not buy one end. 522 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 2: I mean, don't get me wrong, I love computers. I 523 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: love adding technology to stuff. I just don't want to 524 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 2: be on a road trip and an over the air 525 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: update bricks my ride home. But the thing that really 526 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: hit me in this whole saga is the fact that 527 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: people have come together to create this community that is 528 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: kind of part trauma bonding and part tech support. People 529 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: who had nothing in common other than that they bought 530 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 2: this not very good car. Stuff like this is always 531 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: going to be fascinating to me. And I'm not the 532 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: only one. Arian is also interested in this, and she 533 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: asked that I do a real favor put in a plog. 534 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 3: If you own a Fisker Ocean I would like to 535 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 3: talk to I'm collecting them. I'm so fascinated by these 536 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 3: people and the folks who are like I was living 537 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 3: a normal life that I got this car, and now 538 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 3: I've become obsessed. Like a lot of that you know 539 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 3: I was like a normal software engineer or like a 540 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: normal dentist and wasn't even that into cars, and now 541 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 3: this is like what I do with all my free time, 542 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 3: and it's like a a story of obsession. It's kind 543 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 3: of amazing. 544 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 5: And there you go. 545 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 2: If you have a Fisker and you want to reach 546 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: out to Arion, you can find her info in the 547 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: show notes. Thank you so much for listening to another 548 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: episode of kill Switch. I hope you dug this one. 549 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: If you want to connect with us outside of this 550 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: audio space that we've just shared, we're on Instagram at 551 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: kill switch pod, or you could even email us at 552 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: kill Switch at Kaleidoscope dot NYC. And while you got 553 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: your phone in your hand wherever you're listening to this, 554 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 2: maybe even leave us a review. It helps other people 555 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: find the show, which in turn helps us keep doing 556 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: our thing. Kill Switch is hosted by Me Dexter Thomas. 557 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 2: It's produced by Sena Ozaki, Darluck Potts and Kate Osborne 558 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: and this week we have production help from Alexander beld 559 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: A theme song is by me and Kyle Murdoch, and 560 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: Kyle also mixed the show from Kaleidoscope. Our executive producers 561 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: are Ozma Lashin, Mungesh had Togadur and Kate Osborne. From 562 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: iHeart Our executive producers are Katrina Norville and Nikki Etor. 563 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 2: And by the way, if you go to the Fisker subreddit, 564 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: one of the all time top posts is from March 565 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 2: to last year. So just before the bankruptcy, a user 566 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 2: named Nickelback fan Club you can't make this up. Nickelback 567 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 2: fan Club made a post saying, quote, hello, I am 568 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: a current Fisker Incorporated employee. Ask me anything, and this 569 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: whole thread is wild. People including the anonymous employee, are 570 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: trashing the company owners, giving out tech advice, thanking the 571 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: employee for their hard work, and again it's just weird 572 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: trauma bonding. It's fascinating. I'll put it in the show 573 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 2: notes if you want to check it out anyway. 574 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 6: That's it for me. 575 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: That's it from us. Catch all the next one 576 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 5: Six