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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria q K.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Everyone, Welcome to Mother Knows Death. On today's episode, we

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Speaker 3: have our friend, retired NYPD sergeant and host of True

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Speaker 3: Crime with the Sarage on YouTube, Joe jackalone with us

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Speaker 3: and we're going to be talking with him today about

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Speaker 3: the latest updates on some cases we've been following, including

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Speaker 3: Cory Ritchen's recent guilty verdict and justin Timberlake dui video

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Speaker 3: that's been going viral. And we'll also get into the

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Speaker 3: latest with Nancy Guthrie and Rex Huberman. All that and

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Speaker 3: more on today's episode.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Joe, what's up? Welcome?

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Speaker 1: Hey Nicole, how you and Maria and how's everything? Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're here.

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Speaker 2: You're excited to have you.

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Speaker 3: We've been listening to your your YouTube show, and so

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Speaker 3: we want you to talk about some of these cases

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Speaker 3: with our listeners.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, And last time we were on your show,

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Speaker 4: the best thing ever happened to me, which is that

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Speaker 4: you called my mom a whack job. Which whacko, it's wacko,

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Speaker 4: which I've been dealing with this lady for thirty one years,

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Speaker 4: and I felt very seen that day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about it. She's sent me up though, right

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Speaker 1: because it was she said she was showing me photos

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Speaker 1: of this other guy Garlaca was taking bodies from it.

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Speaker 1: And then she shows me something. I'm like, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: guy's a whacko. She's like, that's from my house. So

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Speaker 1: I fell right into the trap.

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Speaker 2: And I'm never gonna let it go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I keep on saying that I'm never

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Speaker 1: gonna live that one.

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Speaker 2: Den, My God's the best thing ever. Then, you know

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Speaker 2: how the kids are always like you're dragging, You're dragging.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I'm gonna drag this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna have some BoPET birds.

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Speaker 3: All right, All right, let's get started with Corey Richan's case.

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Speaker 3: This is this is like, Ray, why don't you talk

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Speaker 3: about it a little just to keep everybody updated with it.

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Speaker 4: Well, for our listeners, we're gonna do a deep dive

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Speaker 4: where we break down every single detail of the story.

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Speaker 4: But for if we don't have time like that today,

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Speaker 4: because it's gonna be like a four hour episode in itself.

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Speaker 4: But this is the woman we talked about last week.

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Speaker 4: She was just convicted, found guilty of poisoning her husband

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Speaker 4: and then she wrote a children's book about grieving a

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Speaker 4: dead parent, which I think anybody could agree is just

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Speaker 4: so ridiculous. So what are your thoughts on this case overall?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean you took about the initial stages of this, right,

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Speaker 1: It almost she almost got away with it in that respect.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it took a lot a while for Laurenforcement

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Speaker 1: to kind of catch up to this whole thing. But

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Speaker 1: I do think they were people chirping in the background,

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Speaker 1: so like we're seeing friends now coming out and doing

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Speaker 1: interviews in the mainstream media that you know, we kind

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Speaker 1: of thought she did it from the beginning, right, So

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Speaker 1: I think Laura Forsman had a little bit of help

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Speaker 1: in that respect. And listen, folks, we know that most

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Speaker 1: people are victimized by someone they know. I mean we're

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Speaker 1: talking close to like seventy percent of the time, so

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Speaker 1: I think they probably looked at her pretty closely in

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Speaker 1: the beginning. But then it kind of fell off the radar.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this whole thing with the fentanyl and

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Speaker 1: the medical examiner I think came back it was five

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Speaker 1: times the dosage that would require to kill somebody, so

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Speaker 1: it kind of set off some red flags.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, why did it take a full year to arrest her.

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Speaker 4: Was it just lack of evidence?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think, well, listen, sometimes you have these cases

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Speaker 1: where you're dealing with the medical examiner and they say, listen,

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Speaker 1: we know fentanyl was killing so many people, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, and most of them are going down as

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Speaker 1: accidental overdoses. So Lord Fotball has to be kind of

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Speaker 1: careful when the medical examiner comes out with either an

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Speaker 1: undetermined or accidental or you know, suicide kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: it kind of just kind of sits on the back

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Speaker 1: burner until there is something that kind of pushes you forward.

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Speaker 1: Undetermined cases are the worst to have to investigate, because basically,

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Speaker 1: the medical examiner is telling you, I have no idea

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Speaker 1: how this person died. So now it's up to you,

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Speaker 1: the police, to figure it out for me. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: that's not easy if you didn't do a very good

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Speaker 1: initial crime scene, you know when regards to photographs and

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Speaker 1: all the other things that go along with it, and

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Speaker 1: you can you can point right to Philadelphia in that respect.

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Speaker 1: We know, you know, most cases that are going that

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Speaker 1: case that's going on there with you know, the former

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Speaker 1: school teacher, so Ellenberg, Yeah, Ellen Greenberg, Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I had a little brain spots them there for a second.

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Speaker 3: So when you were working, because what year did you

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Speaker 3: retire around?

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Speaker 1: And I retired on October thirty first, twenty twelve, on

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Speaker 1: Halloween during the Storm of the Century. It kind of

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Speaker 1: summed up my career.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing.

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Speaker 3: So when when you were working, was fat and all

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Speaker 3: a big deal or because I know it is now, No,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't. I mean I was. I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the police department during the crack epidemic. So I got

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Speaker 1: on the police department in June of nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 1: and we saw the height of murderers and all the

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Speaker 1: other things in like nineteen ninety four, and then we

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Speaker 1: started seeing that progressive downward trend. But yeah, the crack

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Speaker 1: epidemic was absolutely insane and it's unlike you know, and

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Speaker 1: and I've talked about this people, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: the public really gets this. Drug dealing even has changed dramatically.

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Speaker 1: Drug dealing used to be get the person hooked, get

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Speaker 1: them to keep on coming back so I can make

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Speaker 1: more money. Now these guys are selling this stuff that's

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Speaker 1: just killing people and then moving on to the next victim.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely insane how this has changed, and it's just

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem that anybody even wants to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, what's interesting is with the fatinyl thing is that

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Speaker 3: you could have legal fatanyl that's given to patients that

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Speaker 3: need it, that have like end stage cancer and have

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Speaker 3: just severe pain. But then there's illegal fatanyl, which, like

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Speaker 3: you're saying, people on the streets buy these pills, usually

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Speaker 3: because they're addicted to heroin or they have a prescription

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Speaker 3: drug addiction, and they don't realize that they're buying counterfeit

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Speaker 3: pills because they look exactly like a percoset or something

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Speaker 3: like that, and these people that are making these pills

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Speaker 3: are putting so much fat and all, like, you don't

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Speaker 3: need that much to be five times over what would

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Speaker 3: kill you? So if he was just a person, let's

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Speaker 3: say he and not even saying he was a drug addict,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of times people just get a knee

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Speaker 3: surgery and then they get a prescription for percocets and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden they're addicted to it. They can't

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Speaker 3: get any more from their doctor and they start buying

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Speaker 3: it off the street. He easily could have had an

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Speaker 3: accidental death. Yeah, they happen all the time.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and it's see one of the things. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just had a recent hospital stay and they want

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Speaker 1: to give you all kinds of stuff and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'll deal with the pain, let it

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Speaker 1: go away, because I've seen it even in policing, where

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Speaker 1: people like you said, just went to the hospital or

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Speaker 1: had a bad injury and they got this drug and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, it's like their whole lives

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Speaker 1: are ruined. So I learned to deal with certain pays

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Speaker 1: of this and I don't even like taking like tailant

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Speaker 1: all or nothing. But you know, the issue that comes

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Speaker 1: down to is maybe I'm just too much of an extreme.

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Speaker 1: But the issue that comes down to, yes, these things happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that was talked about it policing because you know,

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Speaker 1: in this case, because I mean, so many people were

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Speaker 1: dying of this set and all over dose and they

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Speaker 1: were buying the stuff off the street or get it

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Speaker 1: from friends or going to a party and didn't have

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Speaker 1: any idea what they were going to about to do.

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Speaker 1: And to me, it's mind boggling that people still think like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna try It's not gonna happen

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Speaker 1: to me. And that's unfortunately what we saw this huge

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Speaker 1: spike over the last few years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what bothered me in this trial was I feel

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Speaker 4: like the defense was trying to paint him as this

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Speaker 4: drug addict because he took lead gummies.

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Speaker 2: People that take weed.

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Speaker 4: Gummies are not always doing something stronger.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know why, because you know, marijuana and

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Speaker 1: all those other things has that gateway drug kind of

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Speaker 1: connotation to it where people start off with it because

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Speaker 1: it's a light kind of thing and you know, but

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Speaker 1: eventually they graduate through these other things. Listen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've seen the extremes on both sides, and I haven't

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Speaker 1: read the research on if that's true or not, but

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Speaker 1: we do know that, you know, if you're taking heroin

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Speaker 1: or these other things, is a good possibility that these

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Speaker 1: things are going to be laced with fetanol. Now, so

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Speaker 1: the word is out there, and I think education is

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Speaker 1: really important to try to let people know this. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: there's so many people on hard times that it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter.

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Speaker 4: So if you are investigating this case with Corey Richins,

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Speaker 4: would you find her behavior abnormal for somebody that just

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Speaker 4: lost their husband suddenly in this tragic way. Mother of

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Speaker 4: three kids, she's now on her own with millions of

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Speaker 4: dollars in assets that could be overwhelming, and she decides

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Speaker 4: to throw a party. Doesn't really seem that bothered immediately

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Speaker 4: talking about selling their house just strikes me as unusual.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you have to remember Maria, like you know,

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Speaker 1: mya formal life, I find everything unusual a certain people.

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Speaker 1: I always I look at everybody with a raised eyebrow

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Speaker 1: when you see some of these things, because you know,

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Speaker 1: motives run the gamut, but love, money, and drugs probably

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Speaker 1: the top three out there. So when you start the

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Speaker 1: sea kind of behavior like that, especially, you know when

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Speaker 1: you dealing with life insurance policies and all those other things.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there were times where we had cases that

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Speaker 1: if you had a life insurance policy and you thought

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Speaker 1: it was on the suspicious means, you would just notify

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Speaker 1: the life insurance company and say, listen, we're investigating this case.

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Speaker 1: Don't pay it out yet because we don't know what's

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Speaker 1: going on, which usually causes quite the alarm when you

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Speaker 1: get the phone call from the families say we're trying

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Speaker 1: to get the money, we can't get it, but he's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, so it's it's a strange behavior that people have,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately people deal with grief different ways too, so

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Speaker 1: it's difficult. So that at the pinpoint a behavior that

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Speaker 1: would say that's something to examine. But I think that

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Speaker 1: you know, most detectives, if not all of them, are

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Speaker 1: very skeptical of everybody when it comes to these things.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the life insurance is just the number

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Speaker 4: one tell tale sign, like this lady has multiple policies

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Speaker 4: she took out.

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Speaker 2: On another person.

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Speaker 4: Why are we even allowed to take policies out on

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Speaker 4: other people?

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Speaker 1: And some things sometimes the person doesn't even have to

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Speaker 1: be notified that they're out there. That's really crazy thing

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Speaker 1: about it. So yeah, that's you know, red flags when

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Speaker 1: you start dealing with that, especially with somebody who is

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Speaker 1: pretty much in decent health and it doesn't really have

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Speaker 1: a reputation of you know, engaging in risky behavior and

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Speaker 1: those kind of things. But that's why victimology is extremely

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Speaker 1: important in cases where you go you dig down deep

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Speaker 1: into somebody's background to try to find things out that

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Speaker 1: nobody either aid didn't know or nobody talked about. But

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Speaker 1: now that the person's gone. Sometimes they're willing to come forward,

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Speaker 1: and that's really a huge part of the investigation. Besides

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Speaker 1: the crime scene and all the other stuff. It's the

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Speaker 1: things in the background that the people on TV don't

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Speaker 1: see and those you know CSI movies where it's forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes with three commercials, right, But all those other

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Speaker 1: things are really important when you're building a case. And

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Speaker 1: that's why we try to even change the mindset and

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Speaker 1: telling detectives that this isn't a homicide investigation. This isn't

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Speaker 1: a suicide investigation. It's a death investigation, and to keep

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Speaker 1: that in the mindset because this way you avoid things

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Speaker 1: like confirmation bias, and that's something really important because if

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Speaker 1: you don't, you can end up somebody getting away with it.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and that could be said about a lot

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Speaker 3: of the other cases that we're going to or a

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Speaker 3: few of the other cases we're going to talk about today,

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Speaker 3: that it's really important for police to walk in with

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Speaker 3: like try not to listen to the noise of what

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Speaker 3: got reported in this and that because the investigation could

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Speaker 3: be botched kind of from the beginning if you don't

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Speaker 3: handle it properly, and then it's always going to have

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Speaker 3: doubt in the people's minds because of that.

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Speaker 1: Well, and not only that, you provide defense attorneys with

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Speaker 1: openings to try to, you know, do something to say like,

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Speaker 1: look that even you thought it was a suicide, you

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Speaker 1: know what changed your mind? Who changed your mind? So

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Speaker 1: it's really important, especially now in today's age. I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of glad I didn't have to do this kind of behavior.

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Speaker 1: It's going to work under the microscope of the police

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Speaker 1: departments do now with social media where you got people

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Speaker 1: can't doubt, you know, in launch has an odor and

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Speaker 1: pieces and all of the crazy stuff, so I couldn't

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Speaker 1: imagine that. But sometimes the police department also needs to

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Speaker 1: learn from these lessons and take better control of these

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Speaker 1: crime scenes and just block them out. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: the only way you can stop.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think we are seeing that firsthand with the

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Speaker 4: Nancy go Through investigation. That's been a total miss.

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Speaker 1: Well that if you think about Brian Colberger a lot

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Speaker 1: of these cases. But you know what though, unfortunately the

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Speaker 1: police department needs to learn a valuable lesson from that case,

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Speaker 1: and that is you hold the crime scene until you

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Speaker 1: are completely done. None of this in and out putting

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Speaker 1: up crime scene, taking it down, put it up, taking

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Speaker 1: it down. It just it's a bad look because once

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Speaker 1: you let it go, it's gone forever. It's too contaminated.

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Speaker 4: Because you guys can hold a scene as long as

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Speaker 4: you want.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, there's no rule on that, and especially

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Speaker 1: and if you if you take I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we're going to segue to the gut three case, but

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Speaker 1: that case specifically, you have a house where only one

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Speaker 1: person had access to it. You didn't. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you know, in New York City, you're dealt with apartment buildings,

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Speaker 1: and you can't, you know, wipe out of the entire

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Speaker 1: apartment building for weeks on end, because it's you have

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Speaker 1: the one hundred people living in there. This was a

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Speaker 1: house all by itself. No other other people needed access

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Speaker 1: to the home. It would have been so easy to

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Speaker 1: just close down the house, close them, you know, cord

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Speaker 1: off the entire piece of property. Talked that temporary head

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Speaker 1: cod headquarters vehicle right out front. You have your gatekeeper.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all of these things I'm talking about are

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Speaker 1: really investigation one oh one, And unfortunately we didn't see

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Speaker 1: that happen. And I blame the sheriff for that. Because

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Speaker 1: the buck stops with him. He's the boss, and you know,

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Speaker 1: instead he's out there, you know, doing media interviews. Listen,

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Speaker 1: they have to stop that behavior too. You could do

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Speaker 1: your media interviews, but not during the initial stages because

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Speaker 1: these things changed so wildly, so quick that it comes

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Speaker 1: to a point where if the boss was talking about it,

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Speaker 1: and now we have to walk came or her back,

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Speaker 1: who is there to do that? You know, the boss

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Speaker 1: has already told us something that's that's a bad look.

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Speaker 2: What's the needs?

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Speaker 3: Like, really, does the public even need to know any

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Speaker 3: of those details?

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Speaker 1: The only thing the public is that it basically is

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Speaker 1: required from the police department is if there's a danger

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Speaker 1: to them, and that's the only thing that they're entitled to.

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Speaker 1: They're not entitled to anything else. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: he didn't make that statement until like a forty two

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Speaker 1: days later or something where he said, oh, they could

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Speaker 1: strike again, right, So.

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Speaker 2: It was like last week he just said it, Yeah, because.

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Speaker 1: I think today's fifty or fifty one days, but I

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Speaker 1: think it was like forty two days into this, and

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Speaker 1: I remember like throwing stuff at the TV when I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing this, because now you know, a month and change

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Speaker 1: into this is not the time to tell people, uh

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Speaker 1: you know Hijr kids and Hidjar wife. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is it's not the time to do this. It just yeah,

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Speaker 1: I always said if I had hair, had pull it out.

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Speaker 1: But it's just it's just frustrating because in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six we shouldn't be dealing with certain things anymore. I

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Speaker 1: mean we have, of course local standards, but there are

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Speaker 1: even national standards or best practices I should call it,

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Speaker 1: because we really don't have a national police force, but

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Speaker 1: best practices put out by you know, nij the nationalists too,

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Speaker 1: to justice and all these other things that we can

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Speaker 1: it's free training, and we still can't do it because

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Speaker 1: they understand training costs a lot of money in policing.

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Speaker 3: But come on, do you think it has So you

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Speaker 3: worked in New York, so you were busy every single

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Speaker 3: day with this kind of stuff, right, I mean you're

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Speaker 3: in a busy department, one of the busiest, if not

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Speaker 3: the busiest, in the entire country. And do you think

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Speaker 3: it's just a lack of experience because it's the same

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Speaker 3: with Idaho. It's just like they didn't even have any

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Speaker 3: murders for ten years or something. In that particular town.

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Speaker 3: I know two sons got a little bit more. But

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Speaker 3: is it just because they don't do it every day

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Speaker 3: they don't really know how to approach it correctly.

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Speaker 1: Well that that definitely plays a role in it. But

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Speaker 1: like I said before, training can help you get over

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Speaker 1: some of those humps. And here's the other issue with

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Speaker 1: what I had with PMA County. You have a major

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Speaker 1: police department not too far away in Phoenix where you

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Speaker 1: could just say, hey, guys, I need you know, five

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Speaker 1: of your best homicide investigators to come over and help

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Speaker 1: get this thing jump started. Right. I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: other resources, There are mutual agreements that you have with

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Speaker 1: difference around. I think Tucson's not too far either. So

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Speaker 1: you have some cities that are nearby that experience violence

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Speaker 1: at a certain level, that have people who are you

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Speaker 1: know that it might have investigated ten, fifteen, you know,

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Speaker 1: one hundred homicides over their career. Why not just tap

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Speaker 1: into that resource when you don't have it? And then

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Speaker 1: when you don't do that, I start asking questions because

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Speaker 1: it really isn't about me. It's about solving the case.

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Speaker 1: It's about finding this elderly woman who is believed to

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Speaker 1: be kidnapped and bringing your home safely. Who cares, who

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Speaker 1: helps out and does it? Put your ego and stuff

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Speaker 1: aside and just work the taste and get any help

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Speaker 1: that you can get from wherever law enforcement agency is

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Speaker 1: willing to help. And I guarantee you if if that

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Speaker 1: asked went out, they would have done it.

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Speaker 4: I feel like too, they were shitting on everyday people

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Speaker 4: submitting tips because they were like, we don't want to

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Speaker 4: sort through all of these tips that are probably including

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Speaker 4: nothing important, no important information. And then the Guthrie family

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Speaker 4: over the weekend just release a statement. It was like,

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Speaker 4: please tell them anything because you don't know what could

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Speaker 4: be significant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well let's let's get into that. So I mean, listen,

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Speaker 1: when you have a million dollars as a reward money,

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Speaker 1: you're going to bring people out of the woodworks anyway.

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Speaker 1: So uh, For a short time in my career, I

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Speaker 1: was the commanding officer of the NYPD's crime Stoppers You're

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Speaker 1: in and I can understand when you get a lot

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Speaker 1: of crime stopper tips coming in. Most people have very

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Speaker 1: good intentions, but you have a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: want to give you theories. They want to do this.

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Speaker 1: They want to do. I had a vision, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean all kinds of stuff, you know, so and

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Speaker 1: once again, I mean, cops are generally skeptical on everything.

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Speaker 1: So if I had somebody calling me up and saying, listen,

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Speaker 1: I had a dream last night that you know, and

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Speaker 1: need to sit in there going ome my god. But

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Speaker 1: you have to. You have to write this stuff down

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Speaker 1: and it has to be followed out, and and then

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Speaker 1: of course you got to call that the textives call say listen,

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Speaker 1: I got this, Hey, I got this. Woman she calls

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Speaker 1: she saw this, she had a dream, and he'd be like,

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Speaker 1: are you freaking kidding me? I'm like, yeah, no. But

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Speaker 1: you have to answer out every one of those tips,

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Speaker 1: because when you don't, you now open up the door

387
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Speaker 1: to there are other people that could have been involved

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Speaker 1: in this homicide and or you're kidnapping and not my client.

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Speaker 1: You did not exclude all others. So you have to

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Speaker 1: answer out every one of these things. And when you

391
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Speaker 1: think about this, the not having the hindsight of realizing

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Speaker 1: that this was going to turn into an international story.

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Speaker 1: You had the mother of an NBC Today's Show host,

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Speaker 1: you have, you know, the TMZ factor that gets thrown

395
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Speaker 1: into this. Another media company, another media, local media that

396
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Speaker 1: really didn't get involved too much, right, I think they

397
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Speaker 1: did the right thing in respect that they got this

398
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Speaker 1: and they just said screw this, We're not touching it

399
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Speaker 1: with a ten foot poll, Like, how do you not

400
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Speaker 1: know that this was going to turn into a giant mess?

401
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Speaker 1: And you know, and then that's that's that's the bottom line. Like,

402
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Speaker 1: you know, I know common sense is not that common,

403
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Speaker 1: but geez, if you're running a police department, and guys,

404
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Speaker 1: this isn't some like po dunk police department. I know

405
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Speaker 1: it kind of gets labeled that, but there's like five

406
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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty deputies or you know in this in

407
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Speaker 1: this department. It's not a small department as far as

408
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Speaker 1: department's go. I don't know if you guys are awareness,

409
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Speaker 1: but they're all over eighteen thousand law enforcement agencies in

410
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Speaker 1: the United States. Eighteen thousand, Yeah, that's and most have

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Speaker 1: fewer us than ten sworn offices. So if you have

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Speaker 1: a department with five hundred plus people, that's huge. So

413
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Speaker 1: the meaning that you have funding, you have training, you

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Speaker 1: have experience, you have all the things that go along

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Speaker 1: with it, and not to see any of that come together.

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Speaker 1: To me, is a lack of leadership.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was.

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Speaker 3: Actually going to ask you that, can you explain to

419
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Speaker 3: us the difference, because I feel like it's almost like

420
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Speaker 3: the coroner system versus the medical examiner system, where like

421
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 3: one of them's an elected position and one of them

422
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Speaker 3: is one you actually have to get hired for and

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Speaker 3: even promote into, like I know that you do in

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Speaker 3: New York. But for the leadership of Pima County, he's

425
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Speaker 3: an elected official, right, Like he didn't actually promote to

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Speaker 3: that position.

427
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Speaker 1: Right and he actually he actually only won in a recount.

428
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Speaker 1: He only won by a few hundred votes during the

429
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 1: recouncil was really close. But yes, so different areas have

430
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Speaker 1: an elected police chief or police sheriff or what have you,

431
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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call him. The only mean the

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Speaker 1: same thing in the day's over. But you know the

433
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Speaker 1: problem is that it's always hartisan politics a lot of times,

434
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: and you run on a gun a Republican or a

435
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 1: Democratic ticket, and then you know so, but let you know, listen,

436
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: when you have New York City where it is appointed

437
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: by the mayor, it's still a political position, right, You're

438
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: still going to be beholden to the mayor, so to speak.

439
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 1: But in policing, the politics, as far as I'm concerned,

440
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: should never play a role in this. And the reason

441
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: is is your job is to prevent crime and prevent

442
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: future crime and harm to people. Who cares. If you're

443
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 1: a Republican or a Democrat, whatever you are, I don't care.

444
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: Do the law enforcement job. It shouldn't affect any other thing.

445
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: But we see this struggle every day with the immigration

446
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: issues and the fight with ices and all. So you're

447
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: seeing the mayors of these cities like New York telling

448
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 1: the police commissioner like, we're not doing this. So it's

449
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: still an extremely difficult political position to be in. And

450
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: that's why you'll see a couple of these these police

451
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: commissioners will quit in the next couple of months because

452
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: they just cannot go on that long with a fight.

453
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: Is just is just happening. I mean, I would listen.

454
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: I give Jessica Tish, the police commission in New York

455
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: City a lot of credit because I would have I

456
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: would have told them I would add two words for

457
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,439
Speaker 1: the mayor and they wouldn't have been happy Birthday, so

458
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: and I would have been out the door. So I mean,

459
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: it is what it is. But yeah, patience is something

460
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: that I lack these days.

461
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: Do you think that that?

462
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to make an overall statement

463
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 3: because I'm sure there's some sheriffs that are really awesome

464
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 3: throughout the country and stuff. I just wonder if I

465
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 3: just because I see my husband going through the promotion

466
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,479
Speaker 3: process of like it weeding out like the people that

467
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 3: aren't doing as well on the test.

468
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 2: And you know, you have to take well at least in.

469
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 3: A civil service kind of a promotion system, but there's

470
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 3: a certain level of training that you have to have

471
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: and knowledge that you have to have for each position

472
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 3: as you go forward in as a department. So if

473
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: he's just getting elected, it's like, is he required to

474
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 3: be keeping up on like continuing education and training or

475
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 3: is that not really happening because he just keeps getting

476
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: put in the position.

477
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that really doesn't happen at certain levels. So the

478
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: training kind of stops at certain points. And one of

479
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: my frustrations was like when I first got promoted to

480
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: sergeant and you're running a desk at a precinct. I mean,

481
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: you know, you see some of these movies where you know,

482
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: everything's nice and calm and people walk into the police

483
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: station whatever, and everything is like, oh, yes, sure, huh.

484
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: I mean you I've always threatened to write like a

485
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: screen things, a screenplay for this stuff because you're in there,

486
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: you kids banging basketballs off the walls, yelling and screaming,

487
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: people throwing up. I mean, it's it's an absolute nuthouse.

488
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: And then you're there at the desk and you're responsible

489
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: for everything that happens inside and outside of the of

490
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 1: the priestct and you're basically the quarterback. And then you're

491
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: you're making all these entries. You're doing the thing. Narcotics

492
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: comes in with twenty bodies to what do you cook? It? Raid?

493
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: All these people in there, and then you got the

494
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: captain saying, be like, why are you always complaining that

495
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: there's something going on? You know, because you see them

496
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: sitting back on the chair for a minute, you're like,

497
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: it's not so bad. Be like, yeah, you did this

498
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: thirty years ago. It's a little different today, and so yes,

499
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: it changes dramatically. And some of the best bosses that

500
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: I've worked for are the ones that really did police work.

501
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: You have so many people that get promoted, whether it's

502
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: in the fire department or the police department, who never

503
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: really did the job. They were a good studier, and

504
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: they take them, they read the book, and they get

505
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: promoted and then next thing you know, they're your boss

506
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: and they're telling you what to do and they've never

507
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: done it. So civil serve doesn't happen in every department either.

508
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: Most of it is done the old fashioned way, nepotism

509
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: and cronyism, and you know, it's just that's just the

510
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: nature of the beast. So it's a very strange kind

511
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: of career or environment that you deal with depending on

512
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: the actual locations. And like you mentioned before, the difference

513
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: is excuse me, the difference between the coroner's system and

514
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: the medical examiner is right, like night and day, same

515
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: thing happens in policing.

516
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 3: That's really interesting. So do you think with the like

517
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: for the Idaho case, for example, they weren't they kind

518
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 3: of from our perspectives, didn't seem like they were on

519
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 3: top of it, and then one day they said, oh,

520
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: we got this guy, and it was like shocking how

521
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: they were kind of doing all this stuff behind the scenes.

522
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: Do you think that in this particular case they know

523
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 3: a lot more than they're telling us, and if so,

524
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: if that had anything to do with him not taking

525
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 3: help from people doing a search group at all, or

526
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 3: having cadaver sniffing dogs or anything like that, Like, it

527
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like he was really looking for her, And

528
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 3: is it possible that they just think that she's not

529
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 3: out there, like she's somewhere else.

530
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So you got a lot of things there, So

531
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to remember all of them because you

532
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: got a lot of good points here. But yes, the

533
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: police department always knows a lot more than that. We

534
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: could tell everybody. I always say they say everything and

535
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: nothing all in the same sentence, and it's it's something

536
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: that you have to really pay attention to as they're

537
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: talking because a lot of times they can give you clues.

538
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: And in Moscow with Idaho, we saw something a little

539
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: bit different. We saw a good symbiotic relationship between them

540
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: and the FBI. We're hearing from the very beginning of

541
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: this case that he didn't even want the FBI in there,

542
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: and then things were not really that good, right. I

543
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: don't know if that's true or not. I'm only going

544
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: by news reports, but from what I'm seeing is something

545
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: that is kind of out of like like what are

546
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: we doing here? And for instance, I'll give you a friends,

547
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: since we have yet to see a coordinated search of

548
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: the entire property line and I'm talking about a line

549
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: search or a grid search or a zone search where

550
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: you're breaking up at the four quadrants and you see

551
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: the detectives or the tops wherever it is, you know,

552
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: shoulder and shoulder walking the entire property. We never saw that.

553
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: My friend Cheryl McCollum that you know, she actually said,

554
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: and I always give it. I have to give a

555
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: credit because she said she does. It's more like an

556
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: Easter red hunt that they were doing. They walking around,

557
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, what's that old a pair of gloves?

558
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: Or what's that another pair of gloves? We find gloves

559
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: two and a half miles away? I mean, come on,

560
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: as soon as I heard that, I'd be like, guys,

561
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: please enough with this. We found a pair of gloves

562
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: two and a half miles away from the crime scene

563
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: means absolutely nothing, right, Why didn't they do you remember them?

564
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: Like poking around like I would say, like the witches

565
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: brew in the septic tag like like if you really, folks,

566
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: she's in there, you should have brought it in the

567
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: truck and drained.

568
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: It right, Like, what is happening?

569
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 4: I told Cheryl too, as far as like the pacemaker

570
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 4: being in her I dropped my orr ring one day

571
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: when I was doing work on my house, and I

572
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 4: immediately googled how do I find the Bluetooth thing? And

573
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 4: I downloaded some app and I found it in my

574
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: backyard in a pile of leaves. They waited weeks to

575
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 4: look this lady literally has something that you could track

576
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: inside of her body. And in my opinion, they just

577
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 4: waited a really long time to even look into that.

578
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, from what way we learned is it's it's a

579
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: little different than like your cell phone, this thing with

580
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: this peacemaker. But ironically, about two days before we heard this,

581
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: I said, I wouldn't I have something like there's so

582
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: much craziness going on in this case, it said, I

583
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a bit surprised if we saw them take

584
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: a drone and put an Apple Watch on it and

585
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: fly it over the thing. And two days later and

586
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: they got a hellicopter up there, and I'm like you,

587
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, I was only kidding about this, right,

588
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: But where are the bloodhounds. Where are the candaviad dogs?

589
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: So this was part of the other thing, Nicole, Right,

590
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: I mean, why are they resisting bringing in candavid dogs

591
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: at this point? Uh, it's it doesn't make any sense.

592
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: They've they've didn't allow volunteer searchers, and when they did

593
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: volunteer searchers didn't run their own. They found them backpack

594
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: right in a covert somewhere. And you just kind of

595
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: say yourself, guys, if you don't have enough people and

596
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: you can organize the group right and vet them out,

597
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: get their names and their identifications. I mean, this isn't

598
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: this is not like that has never been done before.

599
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: As long as you know who the people are with

600
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: searching right, you've identified them, maybe you do a quick

601
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: background check to make sure they're not wanted on warrants

602
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: and all the other things that go along with it,

603
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: and then use it. And in New York City we

604
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,239
Speaker 1: didn't have to do any of that because we had

605
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: so many cops it didn't matter. But once again, reach

606
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: out to your Laura enforcement partners that are surrounding counties

607
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: and see, hey, listen, I need a couple of one

608
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: hundred people. Let's ays Tucson let's says, you know, the

609
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: state police, let's ask everybody and see if we can

610
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: get people in there. I guarantee if they would have

611
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: called the state police, they would have sent in a

612
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: dozen cars and you know, Tucson and Phoenix and all

613
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: these other things, because this is a major case and

614
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: everybody wants to have it solved. They want to find

615
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: this woman, right, isn't that your goal to find this woman?

616
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: So even if they had strong evidence to suggest that

617
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 3: she was in Mexico or something right that she was

618
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 3: no longer there, would they still should they still do

619
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: searches like that on the property if they really believe

620
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: that she's not there at all, just to get other

621
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 3: evidence that to try to find the people.

622
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's let's take that to two things. First

623
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: of all, they should have done the entire search of

624
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: the property the first day or two there looking for

625
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 1: any clues into this. And how do I know that

626
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: they don't have the evidence that she's in another countries?

627
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: Because if they can prove that, the FBI would have

628
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: taken over this case already because that would have been

629
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: the federal nexus. So when you have a kidnapping, see,

630
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: kidnapping has its own federal statue. And there are a

631
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: couple of ties where the Feds can just step into automatically.

632
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: Right now, we haven't triggered that. One of them is

633
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: across state lines, one of them is across you know,

634
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: international lines. And there might be something to even do

635
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: with the fact that if you can prove that the

636
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: person is no longer with us and they've done some

637
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: of these other things, it could be a federal nexus.

638
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: Since the Feds haven't planted their flag yet, they don't

639
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: have that evidence to prove otherwise. But one of the

640
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: things that I did see and a couple of people

641
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: picked thought on it is about a week or two

642
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: ago the Fed Federal prosecutors went through the crime scene,

643
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: so they that to me was a good sign that

644
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: this might be headed that way. And the reason why

645
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: I feel that way is because I don't really have

646
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: much faith in what's going on with Pima County, and

647
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: I think the Feds would be a breath of fresh

648
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: air in regardss to this because they're listen, the Feds

649
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: are always lurky. It's like you haven't you know, you

650
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: know that that filter way they take the picture and

651
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, Jesus comes up behind you when you're doing

652
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: something bad. You know, that's what the FEDS. That's what

653
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, but they're like, hey, what's going

654
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: on over there? They're always looking. But I always had

655
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: great relationships with the FED, especially when we were in

656
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: cold case. We closed a lot of cases because of

657
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: the FED. So, you know, unlike television where the FEDS

658
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: and the cops are always fighting, I guess apparently it

659
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: does happen, but I've never experience that.

660
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 4: So legally, the local or state police don't have to

661
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: turn it over unless there is hard evidence that it

662
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 4: is a federal crime.

663
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, television has really done a bad job on this,

664
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: right because in television, the FBI shows up and says,

665
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: the FBI, we're in charge. There are only a few

666
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: times that the FBI can actually take over, and you know, terrorism, kidnapping,

667
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: the cross state lines. There's a whole bunch of things

668
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: they can be invited in, and it's always a good

669
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: thing to invite them in because they have basically a

670
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: pocketbook that is bottomless. They have all these tools and

671
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: all these computers and all these you know, information that

672
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: the local police departments don't have. So bringing in the

673
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: FEDS is always step one if you're really interested in

674
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: solving at case that you might not have any control over.

675
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: So when you're dealing with a situation like this, bringing

676
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: in the FEDS is a good thing. And the issue

677
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: that comes down to is just remember like we have

678
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: joint Terrorism task for US, we have joint bank robbery

679
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: was The Feds really aren't allowed to do regular law

680
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: enforcement work unless they are partnered up with local police. Right,

681
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: that's not their job. But if the local police invite

682
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: them in, then it's a different story. So that's really

683
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: how they get involved. I guess, like, for instance, when

684
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: we had the kids in in was it Brooklyn Orqueens,

685
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: whether I threw the bombs into the crowds or whatever,

686
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: became an instant federal case after a day or so ago,

687
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: and the federal prosecutors already charged these guys with terrorism statutes. Right,

688
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: that's how fast it happens. And do you think I

689
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: always thinking, I tell people, do you think that the

690
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: cops are going to be like, oh, no, I want

691
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: to do all this work though, let's keep the Feds out.

692
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: Are you crazy?

693
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 5: No?

694
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: Way, that only happens in Hollyweird. That doesn't happen in

695
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: real life. You want to get. Your job is to

696
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: get this case solved, bring the person home safely, and

697
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: then move on to the next one. I mean, that's

698
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: what you want to do.

699
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 5: It.

700
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: If I can do that quicker because somebody else help me, great.

701
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 4: I need you to watch this new show that's on HBO.

702
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 4: It's called DTF Saint Louis. The crime lab slash police

703
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 4: Department in this show might be the most ridiculous thing

704
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 4: you'll ever see.

705
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: In your life.

706
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, some of these TV shows are just like

707
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, I get my students always ask me, oh,

708
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: did you see this? And do you see that? And

709
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: I'm just like, no, exactly.

710
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 4: It'll drive you absolutely not's how ridiculous this setup is.

711
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by the Grosser Room guys.

712
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 3: This week's high profile death this section is on Nicholas Brendan.

713
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: He has a cause of death that well we don't

714
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 3: know exactly what his cause of death is yet actually,

715
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: but he has a medical history that we haven't talked

716
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: about yet in the gross Room which is pretty interesting.

717
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: So we get into that this week.

718
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: We also have our YouTube live every week, which is

719
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: I really look forward to it.

720
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: It's really fun.

721
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 4: It's really awesome talk to you guys and getting your

722
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 4: immediate feedback and just laughing about stories or talking about

723
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 4: the most ridiculous things ever.

724
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I like, I like that's the good

725
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 3: thing about the life because we have actual interaction with

726
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: you guys as it's happening. And it's cool because sometimes,

727
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 3: you know, we'll be talking about a case that's active

728
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 3: and one of the listeners will.

729
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: Just be like, no, they just said this, and it's

730
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: it's cool.

731
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 3: It's really awesome. So check that out. Head over to

732
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 3: the Grosser Room dot com now to sign up. So

733
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: another case that we wanted to talk to you about

734
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: was Rex Huberman. We know that you guys have you

735
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: and Laura Angle and the Senator podcast. You guys have

736
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: all been covering this case a lot.

737
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: Is that a case.

738
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 3: Where because there were all the bodies found in New York,

739
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: did that cross state lines at all? But or is

740
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 3: that a case that would go to the FBI just

741
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: because of the nature of it?

742
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? The only thing Okay, So the first question is

743
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: it was we have there's some jurisdictional issues in between

744
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: New York counties, right, so we have no Nasall Counties,

745
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: Suffolk County where the bodies, some of the body's parts

746
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: were found in Nassau and some of them were found

747
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: in Suffolk, So that becomes a bit of an issue, right,

748
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: So we know that Gary Ridgeway learned about putting people

749
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: in different states because it creates a huge jurisdictional issue.

750
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: The question that comes down to is Rex Sherman. Did

751
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: he do this intentionally? We don't know, but we also

752
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: know that he has also not been charged with some

753
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: of the cases that we do know. Surprisingly that Peaches

754
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: for Jimmy Tanya Jackson formally known as Peaches and her daughter,

755
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: which was baby Dough, which was found in Suffolk County,

756
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: Tatsiana Dykes has been charged by Andrew Dikes. The father

757
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: has been charged in the mother's death, but not the

758
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: baby's death. Right So that was a big surprise, and

759
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: I still think there's some big issues with that case

760
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: going forward. But you know, we still have the Asian

761
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: male Dough that hasn't been identified, but we do know

762
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: that athrom is working on that. We have Karen Vagata

763
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: whose body reports were found in Davis Park out in

764
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: Suffolk County, and other parts found in Nasaukyria. So we

765
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: have against this jurisdictional issue, and no one's been charged

766
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: in her case either. But we've had ten sets of

767
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: human remains found on the northern side of the Ocean Parkway,

768
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: and there was one set of human remains found on

769
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: the south part of Ocean Parkway, and that was the

770
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: remains of Shannon Gilbert, who kicked off this entire investigation, right,

771
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: so you know, while they were looking the police were

772
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: looking for Shannon Gilbert, that's when they discovered the first

773
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: victim of what they were termed as the guil go

774
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: for and that that happened in the end. The last

775
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: time the victim was uncovered I think was April of

776
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, and then human doesn't get arrested until July

777
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three. So we have a huge gap

778
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: there and talk about this function and everything else that

779
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: was going on in Suffolk. I mean, you had the

780
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: head of the police department and the head of the

781
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: Districtary's office both go to federal prison.

782
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: So I mean, g wait, but I don't even know this.

783
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So all right, so well we'll get into

784
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: that because it's it's a mind boggling situation. You have

785
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: James Burke, who was the chief of the Suffer County

786
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: Police Department, the highest ranking uniform member of the department,

787
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: and you had Thomas Boda, the District Attorney of Suffolk County,

788
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: two extremely powerful positions, the two top law enforcement agencies

789
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: of the counties. They both end up going to federal prison.

790
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: And what happens is James Burke parks his car is

791
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: truck and he leaves him a bag in his car.

792
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: This local kid who has drug problems breaks into the

793
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: car and he steals the stuff and inside the bag

794
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: it was his gun belt, alleged pornography and some other

795
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: crazy stuff. And you know, they find out who it is,

796
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: they arrest him, and Burke, the police chief, goes there

797
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: and basically beats him up in front of other witnesses

798
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: at the precinct. Then the cover up happens. And the

799
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: district attorney, who has been protecting Burke for his whole career.

800
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: Because it's a long story, but they had known he

801
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: had known each other since he was fourteen, and he

802
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: had worked this case called the Hiohus case. Anyway, make

803
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: a long story short, the district attorney and his corruption

804
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: district attorney helped cover up this beating at the Super

805
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: County police station. The Feds get wind of all this

806
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: stuff and they do an investigation and they start talking

807
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 1: to all these cops and the cops are like, yep,

808
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: this happened, and they both all three of them go

809
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: to prison, right, So the head of the corruption party

810
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: he goes to prison too for covering up distance. So

811
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: Zephya County was an absolute disaster, all right, I mean

812
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: absolute disaster. And this is all going on while the

813
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Gilgo Beach investigation has happened. So it actually helped push

814
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: this off for twelve years. Is it the main reason?

815
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: Some people say yes, some people say no. I mean

816
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: it is a huge reason why things weren't going on, right,

817
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: But you know, there's always other things that could have

818
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: that could have been bubbling below the surface that we

819
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: are unaware of. This is what we just know of,

820
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: and that dysfunction proved to be bad in so many

821
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: ways for this investigation.

822
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 4: So going back to the dates, Lisk is accused of

823
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 4: committing these crimes between ninety three and twenty ten, but

824
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 4: he was actively communicating with prostitutes up until seemingly right

825
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 4: before his arrest. So are there just suspected other bodies

826
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 4: that have not been uncovered yet, or do we really

827
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 4: think the killing stopped at that point?

828
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I think if we think that he's just

829
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: stopped with sex workers, we know that's not true because

830
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: just recently, like you said, they came up that he

831
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: was in contact with I think, but they said sixty

832
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: sex workers sixty, not sex six zero right, So I mean,

833
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: talk about off the charts craziness, right, what happened to

834
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: all those things? I'm sure they're trying to investigate all

835
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: those interactions. But if you're also remembered too. They recovered

836
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: fifty hotel access keys, right, so not the key like

837
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: you know the old hotel situation, you actually had a

838
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: physical key, you know. Now they had those little cards

839
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: so they found they call them access keys. I'm assuming

840
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: it's those like credit card looking things. Now, my point is,

841
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: can they find out which hotels they belonged to, the dates?

842
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: All those things become really important. So to me, that's

843
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: always been one of those little interesting little tidbits about

844
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: what they've discovered. But this case has so many working

845
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: parts and so many different things. Yeah, he was charged

846
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: with Sandra Castella, which was nineteen ninety three and she

847
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: was found out in the North Sea, which is out

848
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: in Southampton, which is totally way off the beaten path

849
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: from where Gilgo is and is also a person Sandra

850
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: was also a person that was a victim was allegedly

851
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: to believe to be another killer, this guy John Bittroth,

852
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: because it actually happens between two other birds of Colleen

853
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: mcnami and Rita Tendretty, and she was like actually right

854
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: in the middle, if I recall correctly, and when that

855
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: happens both at the time, Thomas Spoda, who was a

856
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: district attorney at the time, had stated that they believed

857
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: Fittre was responsible, but then it didn't have the evidence

858
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: because they talked about the way the body was put

859
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: in a specific way and all the other things that

860
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: go along with it. And then to find out twelve

861
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: years later that he has nothing to do with it,

862
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: and they actually proved this through DNA, and then the

863
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: DNA comes back to, you know, to Rex's wife and him. Right,

864
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: there's two hair fibers on that case of Sondra Castillo.

865
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: So the issue that comes down to is that there

866
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: is there was so much bad misinformation put out there

867
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: by the heads of the Criminal Justice Department that this

868
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: is something that the district attorney is going to try

869
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: to have to overcome, and he's he's seeing it in

870
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: these motions that got put out, these the Omnibus one

871
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy eight pages Birth of the Defense motions

872
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: that basically have the entire case thrown out and inciting

873
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: some of these different things in there. So it's going

874
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: to be interesting. Listen, there's a lot of evidence against them,

875
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: but the remember, you only need to have one person

876
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: in your jury say yeah, I don't believe.

877
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 4: It is a case like this a dream for you

878
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 4: guys to work or an absolute nightmare, Oh.

879
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 1: My god, absolute nightmare. Way actually had a serial killer

880
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: case up in the Bronx Coal Case Squad and it

881
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: by the time we were done we put it together,

882
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: it was four homicides and seven sexual assaults, but we

883
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with this social media angle, right,

884
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: So everybody, yeah, everybody is like into this kind of stuff.

885
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: And the issue that really comes down to is that

886
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: there are so many victims that are just forgotten about

887
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: in so many different ways that you don't know if

888
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: some of these cases are connected, and you deal with

889
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: the kind of the pressure from downtown. That was always

890
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: where the pressure came from. Because they want to solve it.

891
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: They want this out there because it's a big news story.

892
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: That is ironic because they never want to say the

893
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: term serial killer when they're in charge, right, because that

894
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: just brings out everybody out of the woodworks. But when

895
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: when Richard Dormer, who was the police commissioner back then,

896
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: said we might have a serial killer on our hands,

897
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: and he had an Irish brogue when he said that,

898
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: I can't I wasn't going to I wasn't going to

899
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: try to imitate him. But when he said that, I

900
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: almost fell off the couch because as soon as he

901
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: said that, I said, oh my god. I hope he

902
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: doesn't realize he just made a huge mistake, you know,

903
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: because you have the news now reporting we found the

904
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: fourth body, we found the fifth body, and now you

905
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: have the police commissioner himself saying we might have a

906
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: serial killer on our hands. I'm like, dude, you just

907
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 1: opened Pandora's box and it's like getting the toothpaste out.

908
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: You can't get it back in. And sure enough, that's

909
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: what happened. But the media just kind of walked away

910
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: from it, just like we saw now with Guffriy. They

911
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: kind of just walked away from these things and we're

912
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: onto the next thing, you know, the war, what I ran,

913
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: and all this other stuff that goes on. But for

914
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: a long time, there was really not much talk on this.

915
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you guys know this or not,

916
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: but then I don't remember how many years I've been

917
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: doing it now, but I do a radio show in

918
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: one h three point m stuff accounting, and we were

919
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: talking about Gilgel the entire time. And that's how I

920
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: met Josh Zeven, who did the Killing season, and we

921
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: had him on and Rachel was on, and we were

922
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: always constantly doing so. We had Bob Kolker, who wrote

923
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: Most Girls, and we were doing this for years and

924
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: we would say that why isn't the media, Why do

925
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: they dropped? This is the biggest case in maybe New

926
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: York's state history. And I think a lot of times

927
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: the media just kind of gave up on it because

928
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: they thought it was too far gone, and even honestly,

929
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: even at points I thought it was too far gone.

930
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 4: Well, it's complicated to understand too. I think about this

931
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 4: a lot with the Golden State killer case in particular,

932
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: because I'm like, you have this guy who they originally

933
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 4: thought was three different people, one breaking into houses, one

934
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 4: a serial rapist, and then another who's a serial killer,

935
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 4: and then to find out that all three of them

936
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 4: are connected to one person, it's just overwhelming.

937
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: And then you don't know who.

938
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 4: That person is for decades, and then finally you lead

939
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: to this arrest with the genetic genealogy and everything. It

940
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 4: was just that case was the first one that really

941
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 4: blew my mind with everything going on. And yeah, social

942
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 4: media and citizens salutes and.

943
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: You know what though, Maria, I mean he was to

944
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: show you too, and this has already been proven ahead

945
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: of time. And sometimes you know, people just don't want

946
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: to deal with it ms. You know, the modus up

947
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: around they change over time, and they sometimes changed the

948
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: need of the of the person who's doing it. And

949
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: that was a big argument about how many killers out

950
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: in Long Island, how many kills, how many serial killers?

951
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: I was a one serial killer person from the beginning,

952
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 1: and the reason why I said that it was somebody

953
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: who changed his mo because of technology. Me had cut

954
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: up a couple of bodies in the very beginning in

955
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: some of the earlier cases two thousand, two thousand and

956
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: one Valerie mac and Jessica Tailor. I don't remember the

957
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: exact years of dates, but it was around two thousand

958
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: and two thousand and one around that time. And then

959
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he stopped and he was just

960
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: full bodies wrapped in l app which we called the

961
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: Gilgo for Those are the first the women that they

962
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: found h during their search. And people say, oh, two

963
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: different killers, way, two different mos And I'm just like, no,

964
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: he was picking up girls off the street. Valerie Macnjessica Taylor.

965
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: Somebody could have seen him, seen them get into a car,

966
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: and then people identify it based on his car as looks.

967
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, remember now that we know about this guy,

968
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: he's he was defied. He was described as an ogre.

969
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: He had this huge green pickup truck, right, So there's

970
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: a there's a reason why he tried to keep his

971
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: identity on the wraps because how many six foot four,

972
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: three hundred pound guys driving around in a in a

973
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: green pickup truck, right, So he had a reason to

974
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: do it. And then he started picking girls up off

975
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: the internet. So it was totally anonymous he was using

976
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: bernafones and the last document that the that the prosecution

977
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: put out, uh, you know, the district attorney Ryierny addressed

978
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: that and said that no, at no time ever was

979
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: the bonafone or his personal phone being used at the

980
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: same time. And they were pinged right within like a

981
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: few feet of each other. Wow. So, I mean there's

982
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: they had DNA, they have they had digital forensics, they

983
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: had so much and god only knows. I mean, this

984
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: is what they said. I think the district attorney says,

985
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: there's three terabytes of photos and videos, like one hundred

986
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: thousand images, and boy, oh boy, this could be And

987
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: unfortunately this is gonna be no cameras in the courtroom

988
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: because New York State doesn't allow them, even though the

989
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: judge can make an exception. I don't think the judge

990
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: to Mazie will, but it's gonna be really wild. I

991
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: think this is going to be insane.

992
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,479
Speaker 2: It is. It's it is really a crazy case.

993
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I keep going back

994
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: to with this particular case is how some like real

995
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 3: estate agent or someone interviewed him about his job being

996
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: an architect, Like at some point before he was caught

997
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 3: and it came out later after he was caught, and

998
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 3: I just can't the guy just gives off like dork

999
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 3: dad vibes. There's nothing that you watch. I don't know

1000
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 3: as far as that particular video I saw that. You're like,

1001
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 3: oh my god, this guy would scare me if he

1002
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: sat next to me on the train, like I would

1003
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: know that he was a creepster. He just it just

1004
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: was very weird to see that he was. You look

1005
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: at him and you're just like, this is the guy

1006
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: that was doing all that.

1007
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: It's just weird.

1008
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 4: Well, we talk about that with Coburger a lot because

1009
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 4: we're just like his eyes say it all right, like.

1010
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know the ironic part is I lived

1011
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: only two towns from this guy, and I took the

1012
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: same Mongan Railroad train to and from work in the city,

1013
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: and I all the times I took the train, I

1014
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: mean thousands of times have been on the train and

1015
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: I never saw this guy, which is which is weird

1016
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: because you get to see souch. But here's the thing

1017
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: about the Longow Railroad. You you have people that like

1018
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit in a specific car in the specific seat,

1019
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,919
Speaker 1: and God helped somebody if they're sitting in my seat

1020
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: when I get there. And so that's you know, you

1021
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: kind of pick your own train car where you're going

1022
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: to sit because you put you know, you pick it

1023
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: the closest that you have to so you don't have

1024
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: the walk as far. But you know, the issue that

1025
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: comes down to is I never saw this guy on

1026
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: the train, but there were so many things that that

1027
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: pointed to the mass of people park they had that, the

1028
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: triangle that was was done for, the pings on the phones,

1029
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy stuff.

1030
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 3: All right, let's finish up with justin Timberlake. What did

1031
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 3: you think of the Did you see the videos that

1032
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 3: just got released that he was trying really hard not

1033
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 3: to have released.

1034
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's here's whereby where my biggest complaint comes in.

1035
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: The A c l U and so many anti cop

1036
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: people and organizations wanted the police to wear body cams.

1037
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: And when this thing first came out, I'm like, let's

1038
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: do it. Because they're like, oh, the police are bad

1039
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: actors and we're going to keep the police straight and

1040
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: this and that. We have seen just the opposite of that.

1041
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: And that's why I was a proposer of these from

1042
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: the beginning. It's and I was on the record saying,

1043
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 1: we are going to see how bad the public acts.

1044
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: We're gonna see people confess the crimes right on the video,

1045
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: and their lawyers are going to be like, what the

1046
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: hell do you want me to do with this? Right?

1047
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: It is winning cases for law enforcement. It's showing that

1048
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: cops are almost always working in a professional capacity, doing

1049
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: what they're supposed to be doing. Yes, there's been a

1050
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: couple of instances that have gone bad and brightly so people,

1051
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, cops lose their jobs or they get arrested whatever. Okay,

1052
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: I don't have any issue with that. But the issue

1053
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: that I had I had problems with is that his

1054
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: lawyer was trying to have this the body cam footage

1055
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: like thrown out totally. You didn't want this thing released

1056
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: at all. Then then they when they lost that, then

1057
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: they said, well, we're gonna have to redact certain things

1058
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do You know, you can't hid your

1059
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: cake and eat it too, right, You can't have your

1060
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: cake and say to yourself what I'm gonna pick and

1061
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: choose what I want. It's it's not gonna do that.

1062
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: So you have a situation where I mean, I watched

1063
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: the video and I'm chuckling during this whole thing because

1064
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: he's like, Oh, you guys are doing a great job.

1065
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing what you're doing. I only had

1066
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: one martini, you know. So he's making these spontaneous utterances,

1067
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: which are one admissible in court because as long as

1068
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 1: the cops aren't asking you questions, and these things happen,

1069
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: especially when somebody is under the influence, they can of

1070
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: they kind of say things that they're not supposed to.

1071
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: He couldn't pass any of the sobriety tests. He actually

1072
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: said during the video that these are extremely hard. Yeah,

1073
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: walk in a straight line, yeah, justin extremely hard.

1074
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 3: I love the part where he gets pulled over by

1075
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 3: a cop and then, like I'm just thinking from a

1076
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 3: cop is working at night, obviously totally sober, walks up

1077
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: to the window and opens the thing and is like

1078
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: are you from here?

1079
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: Now?

1080
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: Why are you in town?

1081
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm on.

1082
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: A world tour. The guy was probably like what this

1083
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: guy's got what and.

1084
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 4: Why couldn't he explain I'm a singer. And then he

1085
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 4: was like, I'm justin Timberlake, and the cops like, yeah,

1086
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 4: let me see your driver.

1087
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 2: Ressless.

1088
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I thought that was classic. I could. Yeah,

1089
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: And actually the cop has been getting some press on

1090
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: that was basically he wasn't impressed and he didn't recognize him,

1091
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: and you know what he the cop did exactly what

1092
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. Okay, at this point, I don't

1093
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: care who you are if you're driving them to the

1094
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: influence of drug. And apparently he makes a case either

1095
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: it was he making a legal U turn. I don't

1096
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: remember exactly how it even how he even came across him. Anyway,

1097
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: he was he wasn't taking any of the justin Timberlake World.

1098
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: So he goes the world awful?

1099
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 2: What that was amazing?

1100
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 4: It's great, Yeah, because now we're gonna see because the

1101
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 4: cop was younger, I think in his mid twenties, so

1102
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 4: he's like, I didn't recognize him. But regardless, even the

1103
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 4: friend that came up later was like, can't you do

1104
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 4: a favor because you love Bye Bye Bye or one

1105
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 4: of his songs? It's like, we can't just do favors

1106
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 4: for people because you liked their music Like this. This

1107
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 4: cop was acting so professional in every aspect of it,

1108
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 4: and I think they originally pulled him over because he

1109
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 4: blew a stop side and then he was just completely.

1110
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: Driving in the left wing at some point.

1111
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't know, And if it was me,

1112
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: I would have probably had a little sarcast to comment

1113
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: to that when he was said, you know, don't you

1114
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: like bye bye bye and be like, yeah, we all

1115
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: got to do bye bye bye. So when we drop

1116
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: them off at off it's Central Booking, we're gonna go

1117
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: bye bye bye.

1118
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 2: Have you ever had because I know, I guess towards

1119
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: the ends.

1120
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: Of your career you weren't pulling people over for stuff

1121
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 3: like that, but like when you were a cop, like

1122
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 3: an original cop when you started, did you ever have

1123
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: people just try to drop that like, oh I'm connected

1124
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 3: or I know so.

1125
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: On Oh god, yeah, yeah, don't you know who I am?

1126
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1127
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: No, that's why I asked you for your driver's license,

1128
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: you know. And it was actually there was there's a

1129
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: great line from I think Southland or south It's not

1130
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: It was a TV show with about l A cops

1131
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: and the guys, and the guy says to him, don't

1132
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: you know who my father is? And he goes, well,

1133
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: your mother didn't tell you, you know, so you know, you

1134
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: could see a New York cop or an LA cop

1135
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: saying something like that, So c s sarcasm is always

1136
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, I would say it's one of my best traits.

1137
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I think you know, you always have

1138
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: people going you know, don't you know who I am?

1139
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: I'm the Councilman's just that the other thing be like, okay, great,

1140
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: you could take it up with him.

1141
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 3: Or her, then you know exactly because you're not doing

1142
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: them many favors, letting them get away with his zui

1143
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 3: because then you know, like it always hurts somebody else.

1144
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: Well could you imagine? Like and a lot of times

1145
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: if if you're going to give somebody a break, right,

1146
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: it's usually doing for a summons, right, either they went

1147
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: through a stop sign or they went through something like that.

1148
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: If you're gonna give somebody a break, m it's up

1149
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: to the discretion of the cop to do so. But

1150
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: when you have somebody committed a crime like dwy go forbid,

1151
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 1: you let him or her go, and then ten minutes

1152
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: later they drive through a red light and kill somebody,

1153
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: and now you're on record is stopping them and you

1154
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 1: didn't do nothing. You're opening yourself up to losing your job,

1155
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: getting sued all those things going with it, so you're

1156
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: not getting that break when it comes to something like that.

1157
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: If it was just stop sign or a red light thing,

1158
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: you could say, okay, dude, just slow it down and

1159
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, just get it there because you do that.

1160
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: What what? What? Normal people? Yeah, paps hate writing some

1161
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: ofs as folks. I'm telling you, we hate it. We

1162
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: don't want to go to court. We don't want to

1163
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: do this and we know that people are mostly good people.

1164
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: Or do they did bad meaning like they sped well,

1165
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, listen, it happened. So my thing was if

1166
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: I pulled if I walked up to your car and

1167
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: you said, you know, I like you a license restration?

1168
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: You you passed that red light? Bay, it wasn't right,

1169
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 1: it was yellow. You know what, you're getting the summers down.

1170
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: You're telling me I'm I'm a liar and I'm making

1171
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: this all up. You know what. No, but if you say, listen,

1172
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: my wife's driving me crazy, my kid got in trouble,

1173
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: and you could see yourself. Okay, I've been there, I

1174
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: got it. As long as you don't have any warrants,

1175
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: we'll let you on your way.

1176
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: You know, I usually just cry.

1177
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 6: I usually cry, and it usually works. I've been pulled

1178
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 6: over once in my whole life. You just get pulled over?

1179
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 6: Were all the times? That's your fun I.

1180
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: My husband gets pulled over all the time for speeding.

1181
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 3: Like we go on these big road trips, so it's like,

1182
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 3: amazing if we could get away there one.

1183
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: But really we've only had two negative.

1184
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 3: Interactions with cops that you're just kind of The one

1185
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 3: guy I was just like, he reminded me of like

1186
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 3: Cartman on South Park when he was just like, you will.

1187
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 5: Respect my athorte like it was. I was like, why

1188
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 5: is this guy so mad right now? And then the

1189
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 5: other guy was recent when I was down in Atlanta

1190
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 5: with Cheryl. I was teaching with Cheryl and this guy

1191
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 5: pulls us over and he's he has like some machine

1192
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 5: and he's testing the tint on our windows to see.

1193
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 2: I just was like, I never saw this tool.

1194
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 3: Like we like people in New Jersey at least don't

1195
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 3: get pulled over for stuff anymore like tint.

1196
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 2: That's like, oh my god, And it just was funny.

1197
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, relax, just I get well, we.

1198
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: Do know that the state police in Georgia don't play

1199
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: Oh no.

1200
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 3: They That guy was so mad, and I was just like, well,

1201
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 3: you know, and it's true, like I had skin cancer

1202
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 3: and stuff, so I was like, I do have tint

1203
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 3: because like my skin's really sensitive to the sun and everything.

1204
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 3: But I didn't ever go through the process to get

1205
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 3: the you know, because I just I just don't feel

1206
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: like it. But yeah, it was that guy. I was like, like,

1207
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 3: take a day off, bro, you're a little bit angry here.

1208
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 4: But I guess one last question I have for you

1209
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 4: is that the police department is getting a lot of

1210
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 4: criticism for releasing the footage, Like do they have to

1211
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 4: release his footage?

1212
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: No? But what happens is it if it, like I

1213
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: guess you could say, if it benefits the police department

1214
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: in so many aspects, right, so you know, what the

1215
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: lawyers are saying or what the person is saying kind

1216
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: of dictates that, right if they're saying, oh, the cop

1217
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: to knew I wasn't drunk, I wasn't. Like okay, here

1218
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: it is.

1219
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 2: Let the public side.

1220
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm for them releasing this because we've been talking

1221
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 4: about do uys a lot recently, especially with the Johnny

1222
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 4: Gudreaux case that happened in New Jersey and this guy

1223
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 4: trying to get a drop saying he was under the

1224
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 4: legal limit. But my argument is always like I am

1225
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 4: somebody like justin Timberlake. If I have won Martini, I

1226
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 4: should not drive my car because I am impaired.

1227
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: But we all know what we shouldn't do, right and

1228
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: getting behind the wheel either if you had one drink,

1229
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be done. In regards to this and lawless

1230
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: and Long Island has had a long history of problems

1231
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: with DWY. I mean, it has been a phenomenon that

1232
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't understand. But over the last forty years of

1233
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: you know, watching what's going on and living there and

1234
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff, they have a big problem with

1235
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: d WI. And there's been always a lot of enforcement.

1236
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: So that's why this kind of almost like a zero

1237
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: tolerance policy in some of these things. So you're just

1238
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: in Timlake, we don't care. We have such a problem

1239
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: on our roads because longa Roads are dangerous as it is.

1240
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: They're will windy, they're they're narrow, and they're very unforgiving

1241
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: because we have these stone bridges, right, so if you

1242
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: hit one of those man lights out, it's not it

1243
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't forgive, let's put it that way. So

1244
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of issues with that, and they've

1245
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: been cracking down for decades and it does never seems

1246
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: to make a dent. So I don't feel sorry for

1247
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: him in the in the least.

1248
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 3: It's weird to me too that a person that's worth,

1249
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,439
Speaker 3: you know, sixty or eighty million dollars just doesn't have

1250
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: a driver, Like what, you rented a car and you're

1251
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: driving the car.

1252
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 2: It's just kind of weird.

1253
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, you know, you know, I've thought about

1254
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: that too. But I also think about too that because

1255
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: of their fame and fortune, they kind of get, you know,

1256
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: out of the thing that normal people do every day,

1257
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: like going to the store driving a car. Right, You

1258
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: kind of lose all this. So a lot of times

1259
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: people think, oh, I wish I was famous this and that.

1260
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, because you really can't do

1261
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: was it. The stories of Michael Jackson used to have

1262
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: to close down an entire mole just to go shopping

1263
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: so you could go in and do something that you

1264
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: and I would take for granted. So you know, I

1265
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: guess maybe that might be the answer to it. But

1266
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, what Yes, if you're gonna drink and you're

1267
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: going to a big party given Ubert, I mean, god.

1268
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 3: I know it is really easy now all right, Well,

1269
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: thank you so much for being here. We are going

1270
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 3: to see you in a couple of weeks when we

1271
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 3: do it.

1272
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, looking forward together.

1273
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, April eleventh, you're going to be joining us for

1274
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 4: our live show and horseshom.

1275
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna be fun. We got Scott Duffy coming

1276
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: to right, so yeah, we're all going to get a

1277
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: chance to hang out together again. Yeahah, which is pretty cool.

1278
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to raise some money for the summer

1279
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 4: program at Center for Forensic Research and Education, So I

1280
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 4: think we're gonna have a really good time. Do you

1281
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 4: have any hints of what you're going to be lecturing

1282
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 4: on or you don't know yet.

1283
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm probably talk about some of the way the

1284
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: forensics and the cold cases are real because part of

1285
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: my formal life I used to do a lot of

1286
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: cold case stuff. So I think it's kind of exciting

1287
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Speaker 1: about some of the new technology that I wish we

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Speaker 1: had back then, and maybe some of the ways that

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Speaker 1: I would be approaching some of these cases today.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome.

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Speaker 4: Please tell everybody where they could follow you.

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01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: Sure, I'm on my YouTube channel's True Crime with the sarch.

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01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: I actually have an audio podcast now too to come

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Speaker 1: with the sads the audio files and you know, Joseph

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Speaker 1: Jackline dot com is my website. But you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty much out there and I try to respond to

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Speaker 1: almost every comment or question that I can, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: it gets a little overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, Thank you so much, Thanks for coming.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome. Good to see you, guys, Good to see you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder,

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01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 3: my training is as a pathologists assistant. I have a

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01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 3: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.

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01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 3: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed

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01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of

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01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 3: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social

1307
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 3: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based

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Speaker 3: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make

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01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 3: healthier decisions regarding their life and wellbeing. Always remember that

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Speaker 3: science is changing every day and the opinions expressed in

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Speaker 3: this episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects

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Speaker 3: at the time of publication. If you are having a

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01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 3: medical problem, have a medical question, or having a medical emergency,

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01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 3: please contact your physician or visit an urgent care center,

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01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 3: emergency room.

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Speaker 2: Or hospital.

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Speaker 3: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

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01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 3: or anywhere you get podcasts.

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Speaker 4: Thanks