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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A teen's son says, Mommy fell on a knife. This

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Speaker 2: one year after he shoots dad dead tonight. Mommy's last

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Speaker 2: texts revealed good evening at Nancy Grece. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. I don't even know

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Speaker 2: what to say. Really, in my left speechless a kitchen

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Speaker 2: knife plunged in her neck and when police arrived, it's

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Speaker 2: still protruding from Mommy's neck, not one, but two stabs.

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Speaker 2: I gotta think about that, the two stabs. Many people

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Speaker 2: will argue a fight broke out.

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Speaker 1: It was a heated argument. I was out of my

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Speaker 1: mind with anger.

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Speaker 2: But the law says premeditation can be formed in an instant,

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Speaker 2: the twinkling of an eye, a moment, as long as

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Speaker 2: it takes to raise the gun and pull the trigger.

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Speaker 2: For instance, the fact that there were two stabs means

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Speaker 2: there's time to form intent. Who stabbed mom? Joining me

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Speaker 2: an all star panel? But first, before I get into

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Speaker 2: the facts.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go out to a renowned.

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Speaker 2: Veteran trial lawyer, a partner at Price Benewitz's leading criminal

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Speaker 2: defense attorney with the law firm in DC, and former

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Speaker 2: homicide prosecutor joining me, Peter, odum, Peter, don't even you

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Speaker 2: have to agree that intent can be formed as the

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Speaker 2: law said. I'm sure he recalled Joseh Luther Alverson as

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Speaker 2: he would tell juries in the twinkling of an eye,

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Speaker 2: his words, not mine, and it upheld scrutiny all the way.

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Speaker 1: Up to the appellate courts. Wouldn't you agree with that?

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Speaker 3: I agree with that, but I don't think that's where

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Speaker 3: this case is headed. This is not going to be

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Speaker 3: a case about intent, Nancy. This is going to be

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Speaker 3: a case about metal illness. And of course, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is a terrible tragedy many times over. And what's

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Speaker 3: terribly tragic about is that two parents are dead at

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Speaker 3: the hands of their own child. What really compounds this tragedy, though,

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Speaker 3: is that this was entirely preventable, particularly the second murder.

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Speaker 3: Colin Griffiths suffered from a severe hold on.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, Peter, I respect your prowess in the courtroom,

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Speaker 2: but can you hear yourself? This was entirely preventable, especially

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Speaker 2: that second murder. Yeah, okay, let that ring in your

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Speaker 2: ears for just a few moments, because when police got there,

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Speaker 2: the son, the teen's son, who had just been given

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Speaker 2: a new car by mommy.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, right.

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Speaker 2: Before she was stabbed, she okay, she even went the

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Speaker 2: extra mile and got the big red boat to put

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Speaker 2: on it.

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Speaker 1: I know all about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, look there they are. She's taking him everywhere. Just

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Speaker 2: before she was murdered, she shared a photo of herself

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Speaker 2: and her son.

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Speaker 1: Then bam, she's dead. You know, Peter, you know my children?

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Speaker 2: How many hundreds thousands have photos?

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Speaker 1: Have I forced you and others to look?

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Speaker 2: At me with John Davy, meet with Lucy, meet with

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Speaker 2: the twins. Here, we're at six Flags. Here, we're at Grandma's.

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Speaker 1: Blah blah.

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Speaker 2: She just posted one of those and then bam, she's dead.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's it's horrible, Nancy. It's it's terrible. It's a

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Speaker 3: it's a terribly violent death. And what compounds it is

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Speaker 3: if he killed his own father under what have to

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Speaker 3: be described as suspicious circumstances just a year and a

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Speaker 3: half ago.

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Speaker 4: But I don't see this case.

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Speaker 1: You can't claim he was mentally ill then too well?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, Nancy, this this teen has been twice

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Speaker 3: involuntarily hospitalized under the under Florida's Baker Act.

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Speaker 4: You know, you don't.

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Speaker 3: You don't get involuntarily if you're not let out twice.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I mean when I say the tragedy

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Speaker 3: is compounded by negligence by the state. This teen should

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Speaker 3: have been hospitalized, he should have been segregated from society,

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Speaker 3: and yet this killer fish was put back into the

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Speaker 3: tank twice.

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Speaker 4: They knew he had violent tendencies.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So Peter odom So when he comes out, when

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Speaker 2: he walks out and he sees police, he says, oh,

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Speaker 2: And this is after making a completely coherent nine to

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Speaker 2: one one call, going my mom is bleeding from the neck.

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Speaker 1: You need to come take care of her.

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Speaker 2: And when he came out, he not only came out

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Speaker 2: completely calm, cool and collected, he had the wherewithal to lie. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go to our shrink, doctor Joy Crawlson

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Speaker 2: in just a moment. But if you're crazy, why would

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Speaker 2: you have the wherewithal, the knowledge, the coming to lie immediately?

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Speaker 1: But wait, let's get the facts. First of all, listen

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Speaker 1: to this.

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Speaker 5: Catherine Valantez is just fifteen when she welcomes a baby

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Speaker 5: with high school sweetheart Charles Griffith. A couple times that night,

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Speaker 5: but stay close to home in Shawnee, Oklahoma, while Catherine

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Speaker 5: earns a degree. Both parents worked to support the young family.

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Speaker 5: Catherine as an online teacher for extra time with son Christopher.

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Speaker 5: Seven years later, the couple welcome as a second child,

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Speaker 5: and to keep the tradition of CG initials, they named

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Speaker 5: the little boy Colin.

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Speaker 2: She gives up everything in order to raise her children,

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Speaker 2: even working online. This is the mom that was stabbed

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Speaker 2: in the neck. This is the mom who covered for

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Speaker 2: her son when he killed his father, telling authorities, oh,

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Speaker 2: it was self defense, let him out because society couldn't

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Speaker 2: believe a son would kill his dad, so they thought, hey,

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Speaker 2: he must be mentally ill. But the way he came

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Speaker 2: out of that house, Susan Hendrix tells me an altogether

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Speaker 2: different story, joining me, journalist, investigative reporter, author of Down

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Speaker 2: the Hill, My Descent into the double Murder in Delphi.

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Speaker 2: Susan Hendricks joining us, Susan, tell me what happened when

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Speaker 2: this young man comes out of the house and says,

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Speaker 2: my mom's in there. She's bleeding from the neck, just

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Speaker 2: as calm and.

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Speaker 1: Cool, chilling.

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Speaker 6: Not only what he said, what he didn't say. It's

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Speaker 6: my mom come help immediately. No, I know my rights.

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Speaker 6: I want an attorney. He knew exactly what he was doing.

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Speaker 6: I feel like he's manipulated the system four years.

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Speaker 2: And wait a minute, I knew he came out cool

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Speaker 2: as a cucumber.

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Speaker 1: I did not know.

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Speaker 2: You just told me something new. He came out and said,

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Speaker 2: I know my rights. I want a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: Did you just say that? Is that correct?

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Speaker 6: That's exactly what he said?

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Speaker 1: Covered him wood.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, Peter Odom, the guy that

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Speaker 2: you say is crazy comes out and looks the cops

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Speaker 2: right in the face and goes, I know my rights.

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Speaker 1: I want a long Nancy.

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Speaker 3: Really crazy as your word, the law really doesn't use

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Speaker 3: that word. He is mentally ill and there's really no

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Speaker 3: question about that. He has been twice hospitalized. That means

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Speaker 3: that he had to be proven by a preponderance of

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Speaker 3: the evidence to be mentally ill enough that he was

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Speaker 3: a danger to himself or others. So there's really no

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Speaker 3: question that this team.

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Speaker 2: When was he bakered, Let's find out when was he

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Speaker 2: Baker act to Susan?

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Speaker 1: When did he get bakerd.

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Speaker 6: There are two dates that stand out to me. One

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Speaker 6: was in September twenty twenty three. I know that he

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Speaker 6: was held for seventy two hours. He made threats inside

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Speaker 6: of that hole. During that hold. They kept him for

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Speaker 6: an additional five days, eight days total. He said exactly

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Speaker 6: what he was going to do. The prosecutor in Oklahoma

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Speaker 6: was asked, you regret not charging him for the murder

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Speaker 6: of his father. He said, no, it's impossible to predict

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Speaker 6: someone's future behaviors. No, it's not not when they tell

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Speaker 6: you and everyone around them what they're going to do.

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Speaker 2: Didn't his Baker Act coincide with him stabbing his father?

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Speaker 6: It did, but it seemed like he slipped through the cracks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the second Baker Act, wasn't it when

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Speaker 2: he attacked his mother in November?

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Speaker 1: He killed his father Feb.

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Speaker 2: Fourteen, Valentine's Day, twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: He's bakered.

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Speaker 2: In other words, you're putting a put in a mental

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Speaker 2: facility and you're analyzed. They decide, hey, he's fine, we

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Speaker 2: can let him go. He was put there because the

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Speaker 2: system didn't know what else to.

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Speaker 1: Do with him.

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Speaker 2: Why else would he shoot his dad if he wasn't

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Speaker 2: mentally ill? So they go test him. He's released then

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Speaker 2: November twenty twenty three, he assaults his mother.

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Speaker 1: He attacks her.

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Speaker 2: Then he's bakered again because people think, well, why would

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Speaker 2: you attack your mom? You must be mentally ill. Does

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Speaker 2: that coincide with his baker acts?

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Speaker 6: Susan, well, I think there's a lot of facets here.

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Speaker 6: So he was held an additional time at the seventy

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Speaker 6: two hour hold, but it's not a long term facility,

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Speaker 6: so they were only able to keep him for a

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Speaker 6: certain amount of times. He made threats there as well.

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Speaker 6: He said, I did it before, I'll do it again.

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Speaker 6: I'll throw her out of a car, I'll shoot her,

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Speaker 6: I'll stab her. He said exactly what he was going

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Speaker 6: to do. Sheriff Judd of Florida seems to be the

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Speaker 6: only one that said, look, I held up a picture

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Speaker 6: of him and say, you see a kid, I see

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Speaker 6: a psychopath, as could have been prevented because of how

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Speaker 6: many threats were made.

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Speaker 2: Susan Hendrix of the teen boy that has killed not

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Speaker 2: only his father but his mother too. This after she

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Speaker 2: defends him and the death of the father gets him

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Speaker 2: out of jail, he hates her. He goes back to

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Speaker 2: live with her and she ends up deck can you

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Speaker 2: tell me about the new car.

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Speaker 6: Susan his twenty six thousand dollars he graduated from high

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Speaker 6: school to me, never ever, ever do I blame the mother.

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Speaker 6: It was her unconditional love though, and the forgiveness, and

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Speaker 6: I think coddling. Maybe she felt guilt about the divorce.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 6: Six thousand dollars card. They also went to Australia together.

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Speaker 6: Nothing was enough, and according to Sheriff Judd of Florida,

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Speaker 6: he said every time that he got I don't know,

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Speaker 6: his phone taken away, something he didn't like, he.

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Speaker 1: Killed a person.

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Speaker 6: I don't even think I'm buying what he said. In fact,

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Speaker 6: I'm not buying what he said about his father, that

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Speaker 6: it was self defense, and the sheriff said, look, I'm

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Speaker 6: sure of it. He would have killed the grandmother if

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Speaker 6: he was living with her long term. He was dangerous

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Speaker 6: that he was telling everyone around him what he planned

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Speaker 6: on doing.

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Speaker 2: Joining us behavioral expert, former FBI special agent, author of

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Speaker 2: Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction,

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Speaker 2: straight out to Robin Drake. Robin Drake, you're the behavioral expert.

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Speaker 2: Help me out here, you hear Peter Odom, a veteran

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Speaker 2: defense attorney who was once a homicide prosecutor, insisting, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's just another sad story of mental illness. I don't

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Speaker 2: think this guy is mentally ill.

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Speaker 1: I think he keeps.

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Speaker 2: Getting Baker acted, as it's called in Florida, Baker versus

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Speaker 2: the state is a case when someone is forced to

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Speaker 2: go for a mental evaluation. And when a son kills

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Speaker 2: a father, or a son kills a mother, a child

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Speaker 2: kills a parent, society thinks, oh gosh, they must be

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Speaker 2: menley ill. Society doesn't want to think, well, they're an

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Speaker 2: evil demon straight from hell. I want you to assess

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Speaker 2: this drake.

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Speaker 7: Evil demon straight from hell describes psychopathy, which is exactly

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Speaker 7: what it looks like this kid is. And I do

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Speaker 7: agree that he's got a life pattern, a life arc

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Speaker 7: of trauma, of bad experiences, but that doesn't doesn't take

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Speaker 7: away from his choice to kill people and kill his parents.

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Speaker 7: Interesting with the mother, you know, and you said she

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Speaker 7: covered for him, and he always then asks, so what

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Speaker 7: inspe fired her to cover for him? And since some

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Speaker 7: claims that the Daily Mail put out about the father

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Speaker 7: being abusive to her for their twenty year marriage, I

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Speaker 7: really wonder if she was trauma bonded to him as well,

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Speaker 7: which allowed her and inspired her to cover for this

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Speaker 7: abhorrent behavior that he had and to have him actually

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Speaker 7: state he's going to do this act and everyone looked

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Speaker 7: the other way, probably because she said it was okay.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 8: Now he's killed two people and killed his mother and father,

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Speaker 8: and I can assure you beyond into the exclusion of

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Speaker 8: every reasonable doubt based upon his conduct. Had he gone

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Speaker 8: to live with his grandmother at the end of this

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Speaker 8: and she crossed him, she would be next. He's violent,

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Speaker 8: he's dangerous. He showed zero remorse, zero remorse.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about the injuries to his mother, and

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Speaker 2: by the way, that self defense ruling at the time

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Speaker 2: he shot his father a year before he stabbed his

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Speaker 2: mother dad, stabbing her multiple times in the neck, then

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Speaker 2: lying about it that she fell on the knife. That

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Speaker 2: case where the father was killed is now being reopened.

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Speaker 1: Why anyone took.

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Speaker 2: His word for it that it was self defense is

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Speaker 2: a failure in investigation. It may turn out to be

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Speaker 2: self defense, but still that must be investigated before a

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Speaker 2: case is just chalked off a self defense. Long story short,

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Speaker 2: I want to go out to doctor Pria Banerjee and

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Speaker 2: determine what, if anything I can conclude from the stab

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Speaker 2: wounds to mom's neck. Doctor Pria Banerjee, Board certified forensic

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Speaker 2: pathologist and an atomic pathologist at Anchor Forensic Pathology. Doctor Priabantergy,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I mean, if you

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Speaker 2: want somebody dead in a hurry, you can stab them

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Speaker 2: in the heart or the neck.

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Speaker 1: Explain why, Yeah, you.

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Speaker 9: Have vital structures in your neck, right, we all take

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Speaker 9: our pulse here. What does that mean? There's big blood

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Speaker 9: vessels that go up through your neck to your brain

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Speaker 9: and other parts of the body. So that's a very

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Speaker 9: easy access poit not much to go through and you

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Speaker 9: can stab or cut through the vessels very quickly, especially

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Speaker 9: with the kitchen knife.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking about the Oh okay, there you

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Speaker 2: have a twelve inch knife, a fixed blade knife that

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Speaker 2: was used very similar to the murder weapon in the

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Speaker 2: Brian Coburger quadruple murder investigation.

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Speaker 1: The difference in a fixed blade and.

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Speaker 2: For instance, let's just say a folding knife, a pen knife,

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Speaker 2: a scout knife, a Swiss arm they been, a fixed

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Speaker 2: blade does not and very often you will see the

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Speaker 2: stab er, the perpetrator stab and their hand will go.

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Speaker 1: Down the blade.

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Speaker 2: Peter odom and all your years of prosecuting and now

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Speaker 2: defending homicides, have you ever seen that happen?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely, it happens frequently.

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Speaker 2: It does happen frequently. I'm wondering if that was the

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Speaker 2: case here. But that said, I want to go now

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Speaker 2: to doctor Jory Crasin, psychologist, faculty at Saint Leo University

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Speaker 2: and consultant with the Blue Wall Institute. Jumping off Dr

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Speaker 2: Jory what doctor Priat just said. I've always contended and

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Speaker 2: I've never really gotten a good answer from a shrink. Well,

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Speaker 2: I've got an answers, but not an answer that satisfied me.

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Speaker 2: I still say that there is a completely different psychopathy,

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Speaker 2: a different mindset to someone that stabs their victim, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to, for instance.

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Speaker 1: A sniper that shoots at a distance. You remember the

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Speaker 1: DC sniper. Let's see Malvo and.

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Speaker 2: I'll think of it in a moment, the duo that was.

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Speaker 1: Terrorizing the DC area.

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Speaker 2: You shoot at a distance, it's like the people aren't

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Speaker 2: even real It's like an ant far far away, or

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Speaker 2: suffocating someone with a pillow you don't see their face.

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Speaker 2: You just put the pillow over their head.

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Speaker 1: They struggle, you hold them down, and it's all over.

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Speaker 2: There's something about stabbing someone like Jody Arias for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 2: what was that twenty plus stabs and then she shot

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Speaker 2: them in the head to cap it off.

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Speaker 1: There's a different mindset. What about it, doctor Jory.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, all the forms of attack take a different behavior pattern,

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Speaker 10: and with that you can look at the cognitive process

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Speaker 10: and make assumptions from that. When you're dealing with extreme

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Speaker 10: violence like this, we have a thing called operational code analysis. Okay,

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Speaker 10: it's outside of the typical diagnostic criteria. What it does

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Speaker 10: is there's a code that they operate by as a methodology.

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Speaker 10: It's you know, the modus operendi. And this individual, when

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Speaker 10: you look at his operational code, look at the duplication.

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Speaker 11: Of the immediate exertion of rights. He did that with

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Speaker 11: his father, he did that with his mother, And just

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Speaker 11: like Sheriff Grady Judge said, had grandmother been the third victim,

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Speaker 11: he would have followed that same operational code. Within that,

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Speaker 11: you can see a lot of repeated behavior patterns and

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Speaker 11: from that you can make assumptions psychologically as to know

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Speaker 11: his cognitive process.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm also looking for clues, clues as to what

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Speaker 2: really happened. I am not prepared to agree that this

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Speaker 2: teen son was mentally unstable, by far, not insane. Insane

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Speaker 2: under our jurisprudence means you don't know right from wrong

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Speaker 2: at the time of the incident. The fact that he

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Speaker 2: lied indicates to me he did know what he did

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Speaker 2: was wrong. But I want to talk for just one

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Speaker 2: moment about the mom's frame of mind. The mom's frame

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Speaker 2: of mind. Number one, We know that witnesses see him

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Speaker 2: drag his mom out of the house by her hair

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Speaker 2: at four point thirty pm the Sunday. She was killed

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Speaker 2: later that evening. Why people didn't call nine to one

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Speaker 2: one then, I'm not sure, But there was tension going

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Speaker 2: back to what the sheriff said, going back to what

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Speaker 2: doctor Jory's said. Robin Drake, Robin Drake, if you notice

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Speaker 2: when he is disciplined, and I'm wondering if this is

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Speaker 2: going to make Peter Odom squirm in his seat. Whenever

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Speaker 2: he gets disciplined, there's a violent reaction. Susan Hendrix listened

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Speaker 2: because I want you to confirm or correct whatever I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I've got some of her last texts revealed. It says,

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Speaker 2: if Colin texts you again, please tell me he needs

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Speaker 2: to come home.

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Speaker 1: He's violating probation.

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Speaker 2: He's supposed to be off October six, but now he

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Speaker 2: will never be.

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Speaker 1: Hello, there you go, Susan Hendrix.

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Speaker 2: She is threatening to tell his probation officer he's violating

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Speaker 2: the terms of probation.

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Speaker 1: Now she's dead.

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Speaker 6: And I think that was at really her wits end,

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Speaker 6: meaning I've read some posts before that, and she spoke

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Speaker 6: about leaving his father and saying, after twenty plus years,

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Speaker 6: I should have done it earlier. And as your guest

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Speaker 6: mentioned earlier, as the doctor mentioned, there could have been

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Speaker 6: that trauma bond because in November of twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 6: her son was arrested for domestic violence against the mother.

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Speaker 6: Was it now the son that she had to deal with?

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Speaker 6: And it seemed like in that text that you read

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Speaker 6: she had had enough. But this went on over and

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Speaker 6: over again. The threats kept continuing. He said he was

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Speaker 6: going to do it over and over and I feel

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Speaker 6: like that mother was hoping that it wouldn't come true,

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Speaker 6: that he would change of course, trying to make it better.

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Speaker 6: And looking at those pictures right now on the screen

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Speaker 6: of mother and son, you would never know, You would

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Speaker 6: never know the smiles you can see, you.

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Speaker 2: Would never know showing looks Susan can be deceiving, Robin Drake.

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Speaker 2: What the sheriff was pointing out earlier, of the Polk

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Speaker 2: County sheriff, that every time he's disciplined, he has a

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Speaker 2: violent reaction. Here Mom is saying he's violating his probation

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to report him this time. This is

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Speaker 2: not going to continue happening. Now she's dead. Robin Drake.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, he's fit in the behavior pattern that he's laid

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Speaker 7: out for himself. And what a what a dichotomy she

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Speaker 7: must have lived with in trying to be a mother

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Speaker 7: and a disciplinarian to raise him at the same time,

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Speaker 7: she's completely desensitized to the violence in her life and

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Speaker 7: not willing to take an action against it, both from

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Speaker 7: her husband at first and then from him, And that's

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Speaker 7: why she was covering for him and not believing and

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Speaker 7: having that hope which got her eventually killed because he

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Speaker 7: made a choice, Like you said, he is doing the

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Speaker 7: greatest evils on earth. And he's making a choice whether

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Speaker 7: he's got mental trauma or not. He's still making the

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Speaker 7: choice and very cognizant of that choice.

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Speaker 2: That photo in the flower dress and him in the

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Speaker 2: yellow shirt, I believe that's the one that she shared

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Speaker 2: online just before she was murdered.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Peter Odom.

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Speaker 2: Every time he's going to have his phone taken away,

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Speaker 2: or he's going to get in trouble, or he's going

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Speaker 2: to get reported for not following the rules, he has

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Speaker 2: a violent outburst.

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Speaker 1: Did you see the photo?

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Speaker 2: This could be me and John David.

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Speaker 1: For Pete's sake. There they are.

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Speaker 2: Look, they were at Air and Space Museum. There's a graduation.

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Speaker 2: She's taking him to DC. They're having all these fantastic

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Speaker 2: trips in good times.

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Speaker 1: What why why you know?

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Speaker 3: Nancy, On the subject of mental illness, you mentioned that

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Speaker 3: that insanity means not knowing right from wrong, but it

399
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Speaker 3: can also mean something else that's very important in this case,

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Speaker 3: the inability to control one's behavior due to mental illness.

401
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Speaker 3: This represents a massive failure by the state to keep

402
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Speaker 3: this kid, you know, in a hospital. I mean, let's

403
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Speaker 3: say that there were red flags flapping all over the

404
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Speaker 3: place and everybody ignored them. This teenager did exactly what

405
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Speaker 3: he said he was going to do. He said he

406
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Speaker 3: was going to kill his mother and they and they

407
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Speaker 3: released him and they put him back with his mother.

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Speaker 4: I just don't understand how how the government.

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Speaker 2: They they they you're you're using all ten of your

410
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Speaker 2: fingers to point at everybody else.

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Speaker 1: The system did it. They did it. It's always they.

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Speaker 1: He is the one. And what what you just said?

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Speaker 2: That doesn't make me feel any more warm and fuzzy tour.

414
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Speaker 2: He was this guy, he was on the rail that

415
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Speaker 2: he said, I'm gonna kill my mom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, he said it.

417
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Speaker 2: That means planning an intent to me.

418
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Speaker 4: He said it to authorities.

419
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Speaker 3: They knew that he was going to and he had

420
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Speaker 3: killed his father under suspicious circumstances, and they ignored it,

421
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: and they put him back out into society. That should

422
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Speaker 3: not have happened. This was preventable.

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Speaker 1: Now Mom is dead.

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Speaker 2: Joining me A dear friend of mom, Catherine Griffith Eric

425
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Speaker 2: Reyes is joining us, mister Rays, thank you for.

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Speaker 1: Being with us.

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Speaker 12: It's good to be here, Nancy.

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Speaker 2: Mister Rays, when did you learn that Catherine had been killed?

429
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Speaker 12: I learned the day after it occurred that she was

430
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Speaker 12: she was killed, and unfortunately it was not a big surprise.

431
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Speaker 1: It's just hard for me to take in this.

432
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Speaker 2: Mom did everything she could to help her son, got

433
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Speaker 2: him out of trouble.

434
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: I believe, covered for him when he.

435
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: Shot his dad a year before, gave him a brand

436
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: new car, got him through school, was at his beck

437
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Speaker 2: and call.

438
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Speaker 1: Yet he turned on her.

439
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: Tell me your understanding of their relationship.

440
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: You say you're not surprised, No.

441
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 12: I am not. She did do everything for him. They

442
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 12: want to and cruises. In fact, they just got back

443
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 12: from Chris, like only two or three days after, I

444
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 12: mean before she was killed. And she would help him

445
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 12: with school because she was a school teacher. She provided

446
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 12: a car, he had a job, he was getting counseling.

447
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 12: So she did everything she could as a loving mother

448
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 12: to help him, and she did everything she possibly could. Unfortunately,

449
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 12: of course it wasn't enough.

450
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: Derek, What would she tell you about her son?

451
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 12: She did say that he had threatened to kill her.

452
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 12: She told that, I mean he told that to law enforcement,

453
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 12: He told that to everybody. I tried to convince her

454
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 12: and said, hey, you can't live together. Try to help him.

455
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 12: It's not safe and my concern. I got involved because

456
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 12: she was a victim of the battery last year, and

457
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 12: he battered her when he was a juvenile. I said,

458
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 12: you can't, you can't live together. But she, you know,

459
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 12: she wanted everything to help. It was like an undying

460
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 12: mother's love and unfortunately cost her her life. But she

461
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 12: won't listen to me. She won't listen to law enforcement

462
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 12: because she was when she was trying to help him.

463
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 12: And of course she loved Colin very much.

464
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: Why did he hate his mother so much?

465
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 12: I don't know for sure. I believe he was abused

466
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 12: by the father years ago in Oklahoma. She was out

467
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 12: of the picture of time. I think she was abused

468
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 12: as well, so she's sort of for self preservation. Wasn't

469
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 12: in Oklahoma, so I'm speculating. But perhaps he somehow blamed

470
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 12: her because she didn't intervene or try to stop the

471
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 12: father from abusing him. That's my best guess here.

472
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: Did she ever reveal she thought he hated her?

473
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 12: No, she did say that he's trying to kill her,

474
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 12: and he did, of course batter her, but she never

475
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,239
Speaker 12: said that she thought Colin hated her. I mean they

476
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 12: were having fun on their cruises. I saw some of

477
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 12: the videos on social media. They seemed like they were

478
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 12: enjoying themselves. He was smiling, she was laughing. So as

479
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 12: far as that goes, no, I don't think enemy knew

480
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 12: he hated her at all.

481
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: Eric Rayes, did you say that she was murdered just

482
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: three days after they come home from her taking him

483
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: on a cruise.

484
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, she was soburning her birthday on the cruises round

485
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 12: Labor Day, and only a couple of days after that

486
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 12: when he killed her. And it's like, it's horrible.

487
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 2: So he was perfectly fine on the cruise. Mom's taking

488
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: videos of her son having a great time on port

489
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 2: adventures on the.

490
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: Ship, laughing, no problem.

491
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: But then as soon as she tries to discipline him

492
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: when they get back home, he kills her.

493
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: How can I don't understand how.

494
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 2: That can be mentally ill when you're perfectly fine as

495
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: long as everything is going your way, and then when

496
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 2: it doesn't go your way, you become.

497
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 12: Violent, exactly. And again he had threatened to kill her before.

498
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 12: He wasn't doing his chores, so I think she tried

499
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 12: to discipline him by taking his phone away or his

500
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 12: ability to play video games, and that's I guess that's

501
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 12: when he snapped.

502
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, guys, you are hearing Eric Ray is joining us.

503
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: A dear friend of now deceased Catherine Griffith. Tell me

504
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 2: about Catherine. I read all about her. I interview witnesses,

505
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: but no one can tell give me a picture of

506
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: who Catherine was.

507
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 7: Well.

508
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 12: She was a loving mother, and she was a great teacher.

509
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 12: She was a teacher here in Charlotte County, Florida. She

510
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 12: loved her students. I think the students really liked her,

511
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 12: and she enjoyed teaching. And she was a friend to

512
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 12: a lot of her students. And of course she was

513
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 12: a mother to Collins. She seemed very happy, she was smiling.

514
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 12: I first got involved represented in the you know, the

515
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 12: juvenih Linksky case, but then we became friends and we

516
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 12: would talk, you know, on the phone a lot. And

517
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 12: she was just a loving, giving person.

518
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

519
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: Guys, you are hearing Eric Ray is joining us. A

520
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: dear friend of now deceased Catherine Griffith. Tell me about Catherine.

521
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,239
Speaker 2: I read all about her. I interview witnesses, but no

522
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: one can tell give me a picture of who Catherine was.

523
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 7: Well.

524
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 12: She was a loving mother, and she was a great teacher.

525
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 12: She was a teacher here in Charlotte County, Florida. She

526
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 12: loved her students. I think the students really liked her,

527
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 12: and she enjoyed teaching. And she was a friend to

528
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 12: a lot of her students. And of course she was

529
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 12: a mother to Collins. She seemed very happy, she was smiling.

530
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 12: I first got involved represented in the you know, the

531
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 12: juvenah Linsky case, but then we became friends and we

532
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 12: would talk, you know, on the phone a lot. And

533
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 12: she was just a loving, giving person.

534
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 5: A heated argument unpolds outside the Griffins home, where witnesses

535
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 5: say they saw seventeen year old Griffith drag his mother

536
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 5: by her hair into the home. A short time later,

537
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 5: a nine to one one call is placed. Griffith's mother is.

538
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: Dead and that's him.

539
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: The son, Colin Griffith, calling nine to one one, completely calm,

540
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: comes out of the house when police arrive and says

541
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: she fell on the knife. The phenomena of children killing

542
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: their parents, we all remember a thirteen year old little

543
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: boy actually described as timid, an honor student, seemingly angry

544
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: his mom had another child, a baby girl.

545
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 9: Listen where else did you stop her old then catting

546
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 9: her neck?

547
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 12: Where is your sister?

548
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 13: She's in her grip sleeping.

549
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 9: How old is your sister?

550
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: She's only a week old?

551
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 12: Okay, and you did not touch her?

552
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: Correct?

553
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 9: No, I did not touch you.

554
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 8: I don't want to such my sister.

555
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 9: I need to know if your mom is age breathing.

556
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 13: She said, I have the.

557
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 12: Gun with me.

558
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 13: I was gonna shoot myself, but I didn't want to.

559
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 8: I didn't want to. I pulled back to the side.

560
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: But I did not see perfectly coherent, perfectly sane, angry,

561
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: we believe, are frustrated because his mom has a baby

562
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: girl with the step dad. Straight back out to veteran

563
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: trial lawyer or now defense attorney with a high profile

564
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: defense team at Price Benowitz in d C. Peter Odem

565
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: former homicide prosecutor. Did you hear that teen boy, just thirteen, calm,

566
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: coherent describing stabbing his mother in the neck, just like

567
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: Colin Griffith Nancy.

568
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: One thing we have to remember about children, particularly teenagers,

569
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: is that they have zero impulse control. You know, at

570
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: seventeen years old, At thirteen years old, one's brain isn't

571
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: really even fully formed. I'm sure any of the psychologists

572
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 3: that are on your show would would agree with that.

573
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: There are two things that the criminal justice system doesn't

574
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: do well. We just haven't gotten correct yet. One of

575
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: them is juveniles. We don't know how to deal with

576
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 3: juveniles in the criminal justice system, and also the mentally ill,

577
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: we don't know exactly how to deal with them. In

578
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 3: this case, in the Colin Griffith case, we have both

579
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: those failures brought into sharp relief. This was a teenager,

580
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 3: a juvenile in the eyes of the law, though he's

581
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 3: being treated as an adult, and a person that has

582
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: twice been hospitalized for significant mental health problems. It's really

583
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: no wonder that this happened. He did exactly what he said.

584
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: He was hereater.

585
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: You keep saying he was hospitalized because of mental health problems.

586
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: He was baker acted because of violence at home, one

587
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: of those being shooting his dad. So our system, you're right,

588
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: doesn't I know exactly what to do because it automatic assumes, Wow,

589
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: that kid must be crazy, must be insane, who would.

590
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: Hurt their parent.

591
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: But as you heard Derek Rossa, who was speaking calmly

592
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: and was simply frustrated, his mom was sleeping with step

593
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: dad and had a baby. He had been the only

594
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: child for so long. You, Peter Odom, left with no alternative.

595
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: You first claim mental instability, then the system can't deal

596
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: with it. Then you say, and the system can't deal

597
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: with jeeveniles that kill all Right now, in desperation, you

598
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: merge the two, and you're throwing me a hybrid defense

599
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: of the system can't handle a jevenile that kills, and

600
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: the system doesn't know how to handle mentley ill. Correction,

601
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: the system has been dealing with the menley ill for decades.

602
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: That's why uh Andrea Yates is still behind bars for

603
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: killing all of her children because she's mentally ill.

604
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: According to some experts.

605
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: This young man responded with violence every time he was disciplined. Peter,

606
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: do you not see the difference in this?

607
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: All the criminal justice system can do, Nancy, is to

608
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: punish and incarcerate, And when we're dealing with true mental illness,

609
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: that's not what's required treatment, hospitalization, medication, et cetera. So

610
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: I guess you and I can just disagree on whether

611
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: our criminal justice system deals well or appropriately with the

612
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 3: mentally ill. I deal with mentally ill clients all the time,

613
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: and our system simply can't appropriately deal with them because

614
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: punishment and incarceration are not getting at the root of

615
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: the problem.

616
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: Well, you may be right, I don't disagree that our

617
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: system is hamstrung. There's snake bit because a lot of people,

618
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: such as drug and alcohol addicts, they need help, not

619
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: just jail. I think they should have jail and help.

620
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: So I agree with you to an extent, But the

621
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: crux of what I'm arguing is I'm not convinced Colin

622
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: Griffith was mentally insane or delusional. He seemed to know

623
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 2: exactly what he was doing. Here's another example, Tyler Hadley,

624
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 2: who killed his parents because they were trying to get

625
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: him in rehab.

626
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: Listen, it's kind of learning, it kind of good.

627
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 13: Someone had a party tonight and someone reported that this

628
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 13: could have killed their parents. He told me that the

629
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 13: kid tap up and he was like, uh. He told

630
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 13: me like he told me that like the gift of it,

631
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 13: that he did something to his parents, and I was like, bro,

632
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 13: I don't want to know any details. He said he

633
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 13: already called and reported everything to crimestoppers. I was just

634
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 13: calling because I felt like I needed to.

635
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: In the case of Tyler Hadley, he was angry because

636
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: his parents wanted him to get help with addiction, and

637
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: he didn't want to.

638
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: He wanted to.

639
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: Have a big party at the house where there were

640
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: there was booze and drugs.

641
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: They didn't want him to have the party, so he

642
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: killed them.

643
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: I'm seeing doctor Jory Crausen, a psychologist. A lot of

644
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 2: responses inappropriate and uncontrolled responses to stimuli such as mom

645
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: having a baby with stepdad, or mom saying you can't

646
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: have a party, or some other reasons.

647
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: Some other discipline, such as in.

648
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: The current case where mom took away video games or

649
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: mom threatened to call probation, and that uncontrolled response is

650
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: violence is murder. That does not equal mental disturbance or insanity,

651
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 2: doctor Jory, when.

652
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 14: You're dealing with a violent person, that doesn't necessarily mean

653
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 14: that they are you have a mental illness. We could

654
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 14: fit them into a diagnosis, but an aggressive violent personality

655
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 14: and they respond inappropriate like this young man did, it's

656
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 14: outside the realm of treatment. You have to then here

657
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 14: in Florida with the Baker Act, we kind of then

658
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 14: move it into the criminal justice system. Just like he

659
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 14: was on probation, he violated that probation, then they would

660
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 14: come and lock him up to protect his mother. The

661
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 14: mother you know, god lover, she's really demonstrated motherly love,

662
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 14: but she really wasn't a neutral person to protect herself

663
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 14: from him.

664
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 8: Twelfth of February in twenty twenty four, he has an

665
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 8: argument with his mother and he runs away from Charlotte

666
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 8: County and comes back to Auburndale to his grandmother's house.

667
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 8: Now his grandmother's not there. The grandmother said, hey, we

668
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 8: don't feel safe with him around. So our deputies, who

669
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 8: found him up here as a missing person's reported in

670
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 8: Charlotte County, turned him over to DCF.

671
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,959
Speaker 2: You are hearing Paul County sheer of Grady Judd and more.

672
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 8: Two days later, on the fourteenth of February, the end

673
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 8: anniversary of him killing his dad a year ago, he's

674
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 8: reunited with his mother by DCF. Colin made the statement

675
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 8: that I don't want to go home. I'll use any

676
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 8: force necessary to avoid it, to include killing my mother.

677
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 8: So that's the second time he threatened to kill his mother.

678
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 8: So they didn't make him go home on the fourteenth,

679
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 8: but about two weeks later, in March twenty twenty four,

680
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 8: they reunite Colin with his mother again, everybody's calmed down.

681
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: Peter Hudham is correct.

682
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: He warned everyone he was going to kill his mother,

683
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: very calmly and very coherently, which in my mind rules

684
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: out a mental illness.

685
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 8: And then list say, September sixth, Colin has an argument

686
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 8: about home chores and he flees from his mother's house

687
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,280
Speaker 8: again and comes up to his grandmother's house. Grandmother's not there.

688
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 8: Mom calm lets the event calm down, and she tells

689
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 8: her son, Hey, you need to come home, and she

690
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 8: asked him to come home and faces responsibility. Collins says,

691
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 8: I'm not coming back home. That was September seventh.

692
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: Robin Drake behavior analysts formally with the FBI weigh in, Yeah, what.

693
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 7: We see here is so predominantly just not with his case,

694
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 7: but all the other case you mentioned. It's a lack

695
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 7: of control. Every time he has a lack of control

696
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 7: in his life, he's going from zero to murder. And

697
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 7: it's like he said, and everyone else has been saying,

698
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 7: it's so predictable, and it's this lack of ability to

699
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 7: solve problems in a healthy way, which has also been mentioned.

700
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 7: It's exactly what happened here is zero to one hundred

701
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 7: when he loses control and murder his his escape route.

702
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: Doctor Priya Banerjee joining a sports certified pathologist, Doctor Priya

703
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 2: how long would mom have lain in the floor, bleeding

704
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 2: out with her son towering over her before she died?

705
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 9: Very quickly, So I just want to say, two wounds.

706
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 9: You don't fall on a knife and create two wounds

707
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 9: and you're going to injure again major blood vessels. So

708
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 9: I would say within seconds to a minute or two.

709
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 9: It's very short.

710
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks, what's next? You know, it's just horrific.

711
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 6: The system failed the mother and her last post is eerie.

712
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 6: It's lyrics from Taylor Swift saying sometimes giving up is

713
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 6: the strong thing. No one was there to help her.

714
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 6: Of course he isn't getting out now, but it's too

715
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 6: late for the moment.

716
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: We wait as just a sun falls. Goodbye friend,