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Speaker 1: Folks, welcome back. We've got a classic episode for you.

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Speaker 1: This one is proudly not brought to you by Wells Fargo.

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Speaker 2: Unless it is.

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Speaker 1: Unless it is, and they.

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Speaker 3: Haven't heard this.

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Speaker 1: The story of one of the most popular retail banks

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Speaker 1: in the United States definitely gave a couple of US

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Speaker 1: Acrossroads come to Jesus moment where we got into the story.

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Speaker 1: But back in twenty twenty, we, like so many other people,

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Speaker 1: learned that Wells Fargo had an entire side business doing

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Speaker 1: some highly illegal grifts.

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Speaker 3: And when we did this exploration, I vowed to take

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Speaker 3: my business elsewhere, and I'm still with Wells Fargo to

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Speaker 3: this day. Out of sheer laziness.

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Speaker 2: First National Bank of Atlanta into Wakovia, into Wells Fargo exactly.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people ended up in Wells Fargo because,

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Speaker 1: like I saying, they just got snapped up by an

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Speaker 1: increasingly gigantic Leviathan of finance. And I missed Wakovia because

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Speaker 1: the name sounded like a sneetz.

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Speaker 3: It was nice to say, you're gonna call you.

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Speaker 1: These boks were made for COVID and that's just what anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to this classic episode afterword from our sponsors.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul. Mission control decands, most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Quick check in. I

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Speaker 1: think this is the first time any of us have

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Speaker 1: spoken today, or at least Matt, you and Knowle, it's

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Speaker 1: the first time spoken with you. Paul and I go

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Speaker 1: way back today. How's it going, guys, It's.

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Speaker 2: Going really well. Having all kinds of interesting phone calls

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Speaker 2: with people that I've never met until today. So this

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Speaker 2: is just a day of new things.

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Speaker 3: Really anything to write home about. Not yet, No, I

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Speaker 3: see very cryptic.

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Speaker 1: Matt. I like it.

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Speaker 3: I'm intrigued. I too have had some unusual phone calls

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Speaker 3: with people that I have never met and may never meet.

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Speaker 3: Who knows if I'll ever even leave my house again.

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Speaker 3: But I'd like to think that there is a future

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Speaker 3: where I will be able to get on an airplane

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Speaker 3: once again, because that's fun. It's fun to go other places.

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Speaker 3: We'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm actually doing some doing some runs later today

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Speaker 1: to you know, if people are immunocompromise, it's a tremendously

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Speaker 1: bad idea for them to leave their house, even if

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Speaker 1: they're in an area like George where the local leadership

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Speaker 1: is attempting to open up various businesses and institutions. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go do some no contact drop offs.

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Speaker 1: If you are immunocompromised, please please, please, still don't go outside,

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Speaker 1: even if everything else is open. It's just not worth it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Guy, I know in Brooklyn who got COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 3: It was a mild case, but he just got the

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Speaker 3: go ahead from his doctor to leave the house. And

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Speaker 3: he pos his birthday today. Actually, yeah, so happy birthday.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say his name because he may not

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Speaker 3: want people to know that he had the thing, but

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Speaker 3: happy birthday to you, my friend, and really glad to

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Speaker 3: see you get out. And he had he had a

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Speaker 3: mask on, was keeping it super safe. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: gotta be tough, you know, just like having that level

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Speaker 3: of isolation, especially if someone lives by themselves.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of crises, it's safe to say that our

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Speaker 1: current financial system, like many individuals in the world today,

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Speaker 1: is in a state of crisis. This is yet another

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Speaker 1: crisis for the financial system. By the way, I think,

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Speaker 1: by the time people reach the age of let's say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, arbitrarily eighteen, they've already experienced several huge

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Speaker 1: behamoths of financial crisis. But individuals in countries around the

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Speaker 1: world right now are being told to shore up their

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Speaker 1: finances and they're being chastised for quote unquote poor financial planning,

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Speaker 1: while at the same time, billion dollar corporations are getting

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Speaker 1: bailed out left, right, over and under. Some people would

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Speaker 1: call this the way of the world. Some would call

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Speaker 1: it a series of conspiracies. Yet the world of finance

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Speaker 1: and conspiracy, they're inextricably intertwined. You know, you could even

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Speaker 1: say the concept of money itself is a conspiracy. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, we have said that on previous episodes,

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Speaker 1: and I stick to my guns on banks have been

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Speaker 1: accused of multitudes of financial crimes, many conspiracies, and even

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Speaker 1: at times assisting with things like government overthrows or cup d'tas.

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Speaker 1: This is not to say that all banks are all

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Speaker 1: bad right for now, they are a necessity. Billions and

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Speaker 1: billions of people rely on banks in some way, and

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Speaker 1: in turn, those banks rely on those billions of customers.

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Speaker 1: That's the official story. If this were a mural or

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Speaker 1: a portrait, that's the background, that's where that's happening. But

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Speaker 1: there's more to the episode, of course, and to get

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Speaker 1: you to the point of today's episode, we have to

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Speaker 1: first briefly explain how banks work. It sounds super simple,

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Speaker 1: but there are a few misconceptions we need to bust

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Speaker 1: and there's some things that we'll discuss that might surprise you,

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Speaker 1: but don't take our word for it. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the bank itself, the institution, the thing that we

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Speaker 2: all rely on, really is one big trust fall. A

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Speaker 2: bank is really only a thing, an idea concept that

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Speaker 2: works as long as everyone believes it does what it

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Speaker 2: does right. It's a lot like currency in general. If

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Speaker 2: you don't believe that thing in your pocket perhaps or

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Speaker 2: laying in a drawer somewhere, that weird paper like substance

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Speaker 2: that has some images on it, If you don't believe

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Speaker 2: that thing is worth what it's worth, then it is

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Speaker 2: in a thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like fairies. Like if you don't believe in

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Speaker 3: tinker Bell, then she dies, you know.

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Speaker 2: Kind of yes, So let's talk about what we all

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Speaker 2: believe a bank is and does. Officially, it's a quote

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Speaker 2: institution that deals in money, and it substitutes and provides

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Speaker 2: other financial services. So really think about it this way.

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Speaker 2: Banks take in deposits money and then they loan out

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Speaker 2: money and drive a profit from the difference in the

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Speaker 2: interest rates that are paid and charged respectively. So when

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Speaker 2: you think about that, like how much money they can

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Speaker 2: make by lending money out and then charging interest on

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Speaker 2: that money they're lending. But the big thing here to

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Speaker 2: remember is that in order to have money to lend out,

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Speaker 2: they have to be taking money in.

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Speaker 3: But make no mistake, I mean, the bank isn't really

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Speaker 3: built for you. I mean it's a business. It's designed

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Speaker 3: to make money for the shareholders. So it's primary function

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Speaker 3: really isn't to be some sort of you know, safe

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Speaker 3: haven for your money. That's almost like an afterthought. You're

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Speaker 3: really just feeding the machine with your money and then

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Speaker 3: they're investing it as they see fit. Essentially, that's an

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Speaker 3: oversimplified view of it. But yeah, you deposit money. When

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Speaker 3: you do, your money goes into this massive pool along

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Speaker 3: with everybody else's money, and then your account is credited

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Speaker 3: with the amount of your deposit, so you're able to

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Speaker 3: draw on that account to pay bills and write checks,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Who still writes checks. I had to get

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Speaker 3: a single check the other day because I had to

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Speaker 3: pay off my car and I had to go to

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Speaker 3: the bank to get one check. It's the weirdest thing.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that amounts to deducted from your account balance,

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Speaker 3: and you can, you know, theoretically earn interest on that balance. Uh,

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Speaker 3: and that can actually be added back to your account.

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Speaker 3: This is all kind of one oh one banking basics here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I called it day one stuff because that's the

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Speaker 1: primary misconception that I want to bust here. The primary

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Speaker 1: function of a bank is not you as an individual customer.

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Speaker 1: And although it may sound basic, it may sound like

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Speaker 1: day one stuff, it is a huge misconception that is

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Speaker 1: very distressingly common. The bank's primary purpose, as far as

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Speaker 1: you are concerned, is just to take money from you,

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Speaker 1: whether that's money you deposit, whether that's money that you

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Speaker 1: pay on a loan in principle or in interest where banks,

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Speaker 1: you know, want to make more more revenue. That's what

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Speaker 1: that's what you are. You know, that's what you are,

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Speaker 1: and you can We've talked about this in previous episodes.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more about the nuts and

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Speaker 1: bolts of this the banking system, especially here in the US,

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Speaker 1: do check out our earlier explorations of the FED the

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Speaker 1: Federal Reserve for more details. That's the gist. The amount

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Speaker 1: of interest that you get on your checking account or

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Speaker 1: your savings account. In the big picture, it's peanuts. It's

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Speaker 1: better than nothing, but it's peanuts. Bank customers matter the

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Speaker 1: absolute most when we take out loans and pay interest

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Speaker 1: on those, or in a panic situation, in a worst

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Speaker 1: case scenario for a bank, when every customer of a

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Speaker 1: bank wants their money back in cash all at once,

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Speaker 1: because you see, yeah, you see, the banks won't have it.

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Speaker 1: They just won't have it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's essentially I mean not to be de

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Speaker 3: reductionist about it, but it reminds me of a Ponzi scheme.

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Speaker 3: The whole thing is like a paying Peter to robbing

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Speaker 3: from Peter to pay Paul scenario. Although it's all under

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Speaker 3: the guise of being legitimate. I mean, if you go

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Speaker 3: back and say I want my money, shouldn't you be

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Speaker 3: able to get your mind? But if everyone does it

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Speaker 3: at the same time, then it's not going to work out.

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Speaker 3: And yet we trust in this system because it's somehow

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Speaker 3: backed by some kind of promise by the government or

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Speaker 3: the FDIC or what have you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what's happening in Russia right now as

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Speaker 1: we record this, which is just for peak behind the

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Speaker 1: curtain right at the very end of April twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: So this can happen again countries around the world. Has

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Speaker 1: happened in the US as well. So you might be

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Speaker 1: asking yourself rightly, Okay, guys, if this is all true,

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Speaker 1: and we assure you it is, then why am I,

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Speaker 1: as an individual checking account holder important at all? Right?

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Speaker 1: If I don't have a loan, if I don't have

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Speaker 1: a mortgage, why do I matter? Well there are two reasons. First,

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Speaker 1: as we established earlier, banks are using your money, specifically

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Speaker 1: your money sometimes even if you're not working with the bank,

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Speaker 1: which is weird but true. And second, and this is

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Speaker 1: just basic sales psychology. Once people choose a bank, they

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Speaker 1: tend to stick with that bank. So if you're the

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Speaker 1: average person with a checking account at one bank, you

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Speaker 1: are far far more likely to have a credit card

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Speaker 1: account with them, a savings account or alone with them

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Speaker 1: as well. And these accounts all have differing terms, and

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Speaker 1: depending on a ton of mitigating factors, one person may

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Speaker 1: have a much better deal than another. Right, some people

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Speaker 1: have credit cards with maybe what like nine percent interests,

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Speaker 1: and other people have credit cards with like twenty five

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Speaker 1: point nine to nine percent interests. There's a lot in play,

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Speaker 1: and we should add a customer with a line of

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Speaker 1: credit and a line of savings. From the bank's perspective,

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Speaker 1: you are far more profitable than an ordinary Jenny or

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Speaker 1: Jack who just has a checking account.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true. And it's also people often are a

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Speaker 3: little bit lazy, and they might not shop around for

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Speaker 3: a better rate, or you know, they might get that

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Speaker 3: zero interest, you know, introductory deal and then forget to

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Speaker 3: pay it off when the rate gets jacked up to

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Speaker 3: like twenty percent or some ungodly And honestly, I'm not

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Speaker 3: to that degree, but I'm one of those in terms

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Speaker 3: of laziness. I have had a bank account that has

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Speaker 3: changed hands like three times throughout the course of my

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Speaker 3: my financial life, and I'm just kind of stuck with

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Speaker 3: whatever it ended up being, you know, just because it's

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Speaker 3: a pain in the butt to like close your bank

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Speaker 3: account and start over and redo all your cards and

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Speaker 3: all that stuff. And I think the banks are kind

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Speaker 3: of a they're sort of capitalizing on that, right, people

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Speaker 3: being stuck in a routine and being a one stop

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Speaker 3: shop and just being easier to stick with what they

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Speaker 3: know than to go maybe shop for a better deal.

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Speaker 2: I yes, and you know, I'm in actually a pretty

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Speaker 2: similar situation. Tool. And the last time I had to

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Speaker 2: go into the bank, I noticed something, and it was

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Speaker 2: that the person I was speaking with it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: a teller, it was, you know, a banker. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you, if anyone has ever had that experience where

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Speaker 2: you want.

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Speaker 1: One you go in the office or on a desk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And what I was attempting to do was

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Speaker 2: open a new account with them, because I've been an

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Speaker 2: account holder for a while and I wanted to open

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Speaker 2: a new specialized checking account. And what happened was, rather

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Speaker 2: than just having that conversation opening that account, having that

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Speaker 2: one transaction, they were attempting to get me to open

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Speaker 2: a credit card with them. They were attempting to get

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Speaker 2: me to change over a mortgage to them and do

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Speaker 2: all these other things and insurance. Yes, and it's something

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Speaker 2: that I'm assuming is pretty common throughout the banking world.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Selling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the concept is so common that there is a

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Speaker 1: name for it in the industry. It's called cross selling.

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Speaker 1: It started out as an internal term, but now, for

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Speaker 1: reasons that will will become abundantly clear in a few minutes,

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Speaker 1: it is a term that is in the public sphere.

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Speaker 1: Success for okay, so Wells Fargo or Wacovia or you know,

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Speaker 1: five Thirds Bank or whatever, any bank that you used,

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Speaker 1: any bank that you walk into and have a checking

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Speaker 1: account with and so on. Those are what's called retail banks.

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Speaker 1: And for a long time, success at retail banks was

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Speaker 1: measured by how successful the bankers or even the people

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Speaker 1: on the phone were at cross selling. And that's encouraging

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Speaker 1: a customer, Remember our Jenny or Jack with one checking

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Speaker 1: account to open up multiple other accounts to be fair.

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Speaker 1: This also happens if you have like a credit card

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Speaker 1: with Bank of America or something, they're like, hey, make

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Speaker 1: a savings account with us right ever thought of buying

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Speaker 1: a boat, et cetera. This idea is an invention credited

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Speaker 1: to a single man. His name is Richard Kovikchik's he

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Speaker 1: was a Wells Fargo CEO. He's a guy who reputedly

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Speaker 1: came up with the idea of cross selling during his

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Speaker 1: time as a CEO at Northwest Corporation. And we've got

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Speaker 1: a thing from an interview he had in nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: I think with Vanity Fair maybe where he summarizes his

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Speaker 1: idea and it sounds normal now, but when he said it,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty innovative.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he really kind of changed the lingo of banking.

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Speaker 3: He started referring to branch employees or the idea of tellers.

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Speaker 3: I called them salespeople, and consumers referred to them as

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Speaker 3: customers rather than clients. And another one that I've heard

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Speaker 3: that I have no doubt sprang from the same kind

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Speaker 3: of shift was all of the various products that the

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Speaker 3: bank can sell you, you know, like these credit cards are products.

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Speaker 3: All of these up cells or these cross sells you're

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Speaker 3: talking about are referred to as products, which I find

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Speaker 3: very strange. You know, it's such a non tangible thing.

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Speaker 3: Like insurance being a product.

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Speaker 2: Well, and just from personal experience, there are so many

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Speaker 2: different kinds of products that these retail banks offer customers

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Speaker 2: that seem extremely similar. But there's like seven different kinds

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Speaker 2: of checking account, there's like six different kinds of savings

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Speaker 2: accounts and all this other stuff. And it's also that

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Speaker 2: you can offer exactly what the customer needs or the Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the customer or not the client.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's pre convenience.

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Speaker 3: No, it's definitely not. You guys. It reminds me of

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Speaker 3: when I got my car loan a handful of years

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Speaker 3: ago and like they made me, you know, this this

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Speaker 3: offer of this interest rate and it was like higher

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Speaker 3: than I thought I should be offered because I have

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Speaker 3: really good credit. And then I was gonna walk away,

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Speaker 3: and they said, oh ho ho, wait a minute, now,

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Speaker 3: we didn't know you. If we just told us you

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Speaker 3: wanted it low, that we would have I'm like, what, like,

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Speaker 3: just offer me the rate that I am do based

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Speaker 3: on my score, Like why are you trying to nickel

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Speaker 3: and die me. It's the same thing. And this was

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Speaker 3: through a small community bank, but it was all like,

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Speaker 3: you know, at the hands of these kind of sleazy

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Speaker 3: car dealers. Not not to malign all card dealer. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure many of you are great, most of you even,

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Speaker 3: but this one in particular, I felt very kind of

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Speaker 3: bent over a bearl a little bit, and I got

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Speaker 3: them down to where I wanted to be, but I

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Speaker 3: felt kind of ichy. The whole thing made me feel

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Speaker 3: like I didn't want to do business with them anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna The anecdote I always think of

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Speaker 1: is like, imagine you walk into a fast food restaurant

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Speaker 1: and you order, I don't know, a cheeseburger, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, do you want poop on your cheeseburger? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why is that part of the conversation now, I don't

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Speaker 1: even want the burger cheez.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, we got to get rid of all this

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Speaker 2: poop somehow, and you know, if you'll accept it on

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Speaker 2: your burger, then you know we're getting rid of it

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Speaker 2: in that way and you're getting what you want.

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Speaker 1: We'll give you a loyalty card, how about an Amazon

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Speaker 1: gift card? So that's I mean, it's true. No, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had to I had to interject a little like

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Speaker 1: I think it could be advertised as convenience this plethora

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Speaker 1: of options I'm using over correctly. Yeah, but I think

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Speaker 1: what it's I think what it's really meant to do

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Speaker 1: is to make things inconvenient, to make it more difficult

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Speaker 1: to find the right deal. The options are are cane

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Speaker 1: by design, you know, just like a life insurance or

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Speaker 1: just like a A lot of medical insurance or health

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Speaker 1: insurance plans function that way. That's just a that's just

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Speaker 1: a byproduct of private industry trying to maximize profit because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people won't do the research. Well's fargo.

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Speaker 1: It was really really good at this. They were considered

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Speaker 1: for some time and not insignificant amount of time, the

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Speaker 1: best cross seller in the retail banking game. But there

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Speaker 1: was one problem, I know, just one.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you know why there's a problem then, yes, why

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Speaker 2: because imagine if you're the best seller at something, now,

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Speaker 2: imagine your numbers are on a really nice trajectory upwards. Now,

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Speaker 2: in order for you to maintain profitability and to increase

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Speaker 2: year over year, like increase, you have to continue your

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Speaker 2: track rate as the best seller, right, and then over achieve.

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Speaker 3: Not to mention, you want to get that set of

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Speaker 3: steak knives, you know, and the coffee is for closers.

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Speaker 3: So you want to get coffee, you don't want to

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Speaker 3: get cut off. You need that stuff to sell, right.

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Speaker 1: It's the unsustainable, unsustainable growth model, exponential growth model of

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Speaker 1: capitalism year over year, and it applies to a lot

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Speaker 1: of industries. So I mean, that's what I was going

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Speaker 1: to say. I said there was one problem, but really

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Speaker 1: there were millions of problems. You see Wells Fargo and

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Speaker 1: other banks. We're getting a lot of new accounts, getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of new customers, cross selling. But these accounts,

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Speaker 1: it turns out, were made up out of thin air.

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Speaker 1: What are we talking about. We'll tell you after we'd

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. So let's

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Speaker 1: say you don't have enough accounts, Well, well, why don't

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Speaker 1: you make them up? As early as twenty eleven, still

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Speaker 1: like nine years ago, easily, outfits like the Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal started noting this enormous internal pressure that Wells Fargo

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Speaker 1: was exerting on everybody from the bank manager level on down.

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Speaker 1: They were supposed to measure up to these incredibly difficult

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Speaker 1: sales quotas, these cross selling quotas. These were cartoonishly implausible.

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Speaker 1: Vanity Fair in fact noted that several of these goals

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Speaker 1: were proven to be literally mathematically impossible to achieve. That's nuts. Like,

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Speaker 1: even if you pitched everything to everyone, every single customer

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Speaker 1: got every single offer possible and they all said yes,

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Speaker 1: you still wouldn't meet the quota at some points.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy, It really is so so. Imagine that you

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Speaker 2: are let's say a bank manager or one of the

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Speaker 2: main salespersons at you know, bankers, or just salesperson at

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Speaker 2: the bank. Imagine that you are aware that you are

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Speaker 2: expected to sell x number of new accounts or open

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Speaker 2: x number of new accounts, and you only you know,

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Speaker 2: you see, like you literally physically see x minus fifty

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Speaker 2: people a day, right, so you know that there's no

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Speaker 2: way you're going to do that, There's no possible way.

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Speaker 2: What do you do when you know your job is

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Speaker 2: on the line. That number is directly related to how

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Speaker 2: well you do, if you can get a raise at

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Speaker 2: some point, if you can keep your job even well.

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Speaker 2: They started doing something that they weren't supposed to do,

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Speaker 2: and that's just opening new accounts that would count towards

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Speaker 2: their quota but wouldn't actually be tied to somebody who

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Speaker 2: wanted an account.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, isn't that called fraud?

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Speaker 1: Ding ding ding? Yes, it is. Indeed there was. There's

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Speaker 1: a guy named Dennis Hambeck who once upon a time

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Speaker 1: was an employee at Wells Fargo. Now this guy had

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Speaker 1: extensive banking experience, was his career. He got into banking

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Speaker 1: as a young cat before all these massive consolidations, right

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Speaker 1: before the financial whales starts swallowing the other smaller financial fish,

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Speaker 1: and well, whales are mammals. But you get it, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. So he said this in

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Speaker 1: a quote, just to hammer home that point that you made, Matt,

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Speaker 1: about how intense this pressure was. He said, every morning

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Speaker 1: we had a conference call all with the managers. You

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Speaker 1: were supposed to tell them how you were going to

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Speaker 1: make your sales goal for the day, and if you didn't,

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Speaker 1: you had to call them back in the afternoon explain

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Speaker 1: how you why you didn't make it, and how you

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Speaker 1: were going to fix it. It was really tense. Uh

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Speaker 1: So you can imagine that, you know, there's a little

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Speaker 1: problematic if we're being.

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Speaker 3: A terrible place to work, as almost as though it

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Speaker 3: would drive you to do something untoward m exactly.

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Speaker 1: Nol it's it's like, think about this, like, imagine you

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Speaker 1: go to uh, let's say your your local hardware store,

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Speaker 1: and you're planning to buy a leaf blower and a

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Speaker 1: screwdriver Phillips flathead, it doesn't matter for this example, but whatever,

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Speaker 1: whichever one you like most, you're supposed to get them.

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Speaker 1: You pay for them, and you're gonna get them delivered. Later,

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Speaker 1: you learned that the store did not just sell you

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Speaker 1: a leaf blower and your favorite screwdriver. They also sold

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Speaker 1: you a chainsaw, around two cases of blue power Aid,

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Speaker 1: maybe some outdated lamp fixtures, and they threw it along

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Speaker 1: gnome and they charged you in some way for all

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Speaker 1: of it. And now imagine that delivery took months or

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Speaker 1: years and you didn't find out about it until much later.

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Speaker 1: This sounds silly, right, It's like an arrested development sitcom

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Speaker 1: esque thing, but that's pretty much what happened in this scenario.

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Speaker 1: In real life, this happened to people at Wells Fargo.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Ben, the the routers and Poweraid example feels like

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Speaker 2: it's out there, but we assure you it is not

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Speaker 2: that different. So let's imagine one of those individual employees

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Speaker 2: knowing they have to make this quota. So let's say

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Speaker 2: they're talking to you on the phone as a customer

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Speaker 2: and they convince you to take out a large loan,

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00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: let's say, let's say a ten thousand dollars loan. They

433
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: convince you to do that with the caveat that they're

434
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: going to immediately repay you five thousand dollars or like

435
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: pay off five thousand dollars of that loan. So really

436
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: you're only taking out a five thousand dollars loan, but

437
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: on paper, and according to the bank, they're going to

438
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: get credit for taking out a ten thousand dollars loan,

439
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: and it's just a way for them to sustain themselves

440
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: within the banking infrastructure. And that is most certainly an

441
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: unsustainable thing.

442
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's I like the point you made about

443
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: Ponzi's scheme. No, that was occurring to me as well,

444
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: because it very much is an unsustainable growth situation. Things

445
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: start to crack. In two thousand and five, there's a

446
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: customer named Bill Moore and he goes to Dennis Hanbeck,

447
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: who he mentioned earlier, and he's he's befuddled, and he's

448
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: kind of indignant because he says, hey, Dennis, I see

449
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: that I have a checking account and a savings account,

450
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: and they like date back to five years ago. I

451
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: didn't ask for them, and I don't want them. And

452
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: so Hambick, being a stand up guy, is on the case.

453
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting. I mean, really is doing

454
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 3: some pretty serious, serious slewth thing. He looks into it

455
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: and discovers that the banker who opened those accounts, as

456
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: you typically need to have with opening an account, there

457
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: was a driver's license number that was entered as more

458
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: WF zero zero zero zero zero, which sounds like a

459
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: really wonky like vanity license plate if you ask me.

460
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: And to boot. The date of issuance was January first,

461
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 3: two thousand, which was a holiday when the Department of

462
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: Licensing of Washington State would have been closed. And Hamback

463
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: is not letting this go. He kind of is getting

464
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: the brush off for management. So Hamback retires. I think

465
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 3: he was just kind of fed up because he you know,

466
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 3: he was the one that was looking into this, and

467
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: he was the one that was finding some very fishy evidence,

468
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: and he wanted to avoid being fired for not resorting

469
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: to these kinds of fraudulent activities in order to make

470
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 3: those unrealistic expectations, and Ben I wanted to mention, I mean,

471
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: so it's not like management specifically instructed employees to do

472
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 3: this to break the law, but more or less implied that,

473
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: you know, put up or shut up, like you're out

474
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: if you don't meet these expectations. It's sort of like

475
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 3: there was a big cheating scandal in Georgia public schools

476
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: years ago, and it was because of unrealistic expectations for

477
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: standardized tests. And while you know, obviously you can't condone

478
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: the cheating, you understand why some of these teachers might

479
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 3: have done that because they felt pressured to meet these standards.

480
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 3: But again, it's not like they're superiors instructed them to cheat.

481
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: Is that similar here, benus were making these decisions on

482
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: their own.

483
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were heavily incentivized to make those decisions. I think.

484
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: I think that's a great comparisonal because the thing about

485
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: it is it would be illegal for the banks and

486
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: the executors to come out and say, look, make up

487
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: these accounts and break the law. As a matter of fact,

488
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, we said Hamback refused to play the game.

489
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: It's interesting in official company literature, this kind of unethical

490
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: behavior is referred to literally as gaming, and so they

491
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 1: can't They won't ever compromise themselves by saying, you know,

492
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: go break numerous financial laws. They'll just say, hey, why

493
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: aren't you meeting these sales quotas your job is in jeopardy,

494
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: And usually that's all the incentive people need.

495
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: But to your point, Ben, they almost laid out how

496
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: to do it by having it in their company literature

497
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 3: as a thing you should not do, and even give

498
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: it a name. I think that's pretty interesting and teachable here.

499
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's just like the frozen grape concentrate from

500
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: the days of prohibition that said do not do the

501
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: following steps because it will result in fermentation and make

502
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: wine number one. You know, it's exactly like that. And

503
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: to quote to quote Yates from the Second Coming, the

504
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: Center could not hold right, or to paraphrase them, this

505
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: was unsustainable and very very soon things would fall apart.

506
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: Will explore the fallout which continues today. After a word

507
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: from our sponsors.

508
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: And we're back talking more about banking, because it's it's

509
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: not as boring as it might seem. You guys, there's

510
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: some pretty shady stuff going on at Wells Fargo their

511
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: own analysis that they did between twenty eleven twenty fifteen

512
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: found that it's employees that opened more than one point

513
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: five million deposit accounts and more than five hundred and

514
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: sixty five thousand credit card accounts that may or may

515
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 3: not have actually been real. Uh, but then we can't forget.

516
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: And this is always the point that I but when

517
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: I thought back on this story, these weren't like made

518
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 3: up identities. These were like duplicate accounts of real people.

519
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: How did they think this was? That they were gonna

520
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: get away with this for very long? It just seems

521
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: like such a desperate move, which clearly it was.

522
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: It feels like one of those things that you get

523
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: away with until you can't, and you you sustain what

524
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: you've got and how everything is going until it all

525
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: falls apart. It's building that house of cards situation where

526
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: you know, at some point the bill comes due, but

527
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: it's not going to be today or tomorrow.

528
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: Probably.

529
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: It's like the boiler Room. You remember that film? Mm hmm, yeah,

530
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: I think I just liked the boiler Room. Oh I'm

531
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: that But you're right, So some customers, obviously we're gonna

532
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: find out about this because some of those accounts opened

533
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: in their names had fees, so they would get they

534
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: would be asked to pay these fees on accounts that,

535
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: as far as they knew, did not exist. Some customers

536
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: even had collections agencies calling them due to these unpaid

537
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: fees because again they didn't know that the accounts existed.

538
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: They weren't getting notified of the fees. Even the first

539
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 1: time they would find out about one of these fraudulent

540
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: accounts is when they were getting shaken down by a

541
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: collections agency. So just imagine what that does to your

542
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: credit as well. This has lasting financial consequence for people totally.

543
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: And I mean I think that, you know, I'm just

544
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: guessing here that Wells Fargo employees were banking on the

545
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: fact that, you know, a lot of these fees are

546
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: little nickel and dime fees here and there that you

547
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: might not even notice. I certainly don't scan through my

548
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: bank ledger and try to pick, you know, pick out

549
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: every single little fee or whatever. I mean, you know,

550
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: I definitely glance at it from time to time, but

551
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 3: I don't go through it with like a fine tooth comb.

552
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: And it's such a negligible amount. It's not like you

553
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 3: take a big hit to your bank account and all

554
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: of a sudden thake, something's up, right.

555
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: You know what I'm gonna do immediately following this episode,

556
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: go through that bank account.

557
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, fine, tooth a lot of people while you're there.

558
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: Go ahead and check just in general, fellow listeners, go

559
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: ahead and check your cell phone bill. See what kind

560
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: of service charges have just popped up over time. And definitely,

561
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: I'll say it, I'm not get in trouble for this,

562
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: but definitely keep an eye on Comcast. They are, you know,

563
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: they're they're voted again number one most hated company in

564
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: the US. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

565
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

566
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, just whoever your ISP is, really it doesn't matter.

567
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: Just check it.

568
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: Check all those bills, keep.

569
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: An eye on them because those plans change, right, They're

570
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: meant to change in ways that you might not be

571
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: aware of unless you are paying mindful attention. So this gaming,

572
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: as they called it, this unethical behavior, was so ubiquitous

573
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: that it even created related kind of terms, slang terms internally.

574
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: There's one called pinning, and that meant assigning customers pin

575
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: numbers without their knowledge. That's incredibly disturbing because, as you know,

576
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: a pin number is supposed to be yours. It's like

577
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: it's sacro sanct It's similar to a bank's version of

578
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: your Social Security number. No one else is supposed to

579
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: know it. But if someone makes up a pin number

580
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: that you do not know, that means they can impersonate

581
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: you on a Wells Fargo computer and then boom, boom, boom,

582
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: they can enroll you in all sorts of quote unquote

583
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: products without your no. So boom, Now you've got auto insurance. Boom.

584
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: Now you had a Carlan boom, Now you had a

585
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: credit card. And this was nuts, because the most mystifying

586
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: thing about this still is not even how widespread it

587
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: is to me, it's how blatant it was. The LA

588
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: City's Attorney Office found that there were one hundred and

589
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: ninety three thousand non employee accounts opened between twenty eleven

590
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: and twenty fifteen. And get this, the only email name

591
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: listed for them was Wellsfargo dot com. This is just

592
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: at Wells Fargo dot com.

593
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: Wow.

594
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Wow, it's not like even not even trying, you know,

595
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: it's like not even doing like level one improv. I

596
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: bet we could make I bet we could make like

597
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: right now, we could make as many fake names as

598
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: we wanted. You know, Tad Dorgenson, that's not a real name.

599
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: That's still better than Wells Fargo dot com.

600
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: Or you get even if you just put like ceu

601
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 2: u st as in customer and then put a string

602
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 2: of like, you know, numbers and letters or something. It's

603
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: that easy, cheeze. But that takes time. And I guess

604
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: you had to make so many so quickly age what they.

605
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: Did going to that point of desperation, you know. And

606
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: on September eighth, twenty sixteen, Wells Fargo did settle with

607
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: some authorities. They paid one hundred and eighty five million

608
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: dollars to three institutions, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the

609
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is a thing,

610
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: and the City and County of Los Angeles. They wanted

611
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: to settle the charges of a massive fraud. As part

612
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: of this agreement, they were able to avoid admitting that

613
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: they had done anything wrong.

614
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: Now that sounds familiar. That sounds pretty dang familiar, you know.

615
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 3: To be fair, they absolutely have plausible deny of ability.

616
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 3: The only thing they were guilty of was having high standards.

617
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: There we go, there we go. Yeah, as you can

618
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: tell in a universe to the left of this, the

619
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: four of us are are lawyers.

620
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.

621
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: I think we would be good in the courtroom. So

622
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: it's weird because they all they did, they did do

623
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: one other thing aside from pay one hundred and eighty

624
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: five million dollars. They fired. They fired around a thousand employees,

625
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: maybe a little more. And these were mostly juniors. They

626
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: were fired for gaming. If you think about it, these

627
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: were sacrificial goats just sort of meant to be a propitiation.

628
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: They were meant to appease the gods of regulation. And

629
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: we know what you're all thinking. You know what everybody

630
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: is thinking. Hey, one hundred and eighty five million dollars

631
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: is a big deal to me. But isn't that chump

632
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: change for such a huge bank. The answer is yes.

633
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: It was about three percent, right, three percent of second

634
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: quarter profits of that year. So there are four quarters.

635
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: One of those quarters had to shape off three percent

636
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: in order for them to be Okay, that's crazy.

637
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: It's also way less than some executives have made over

638
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: the past five years. Gentlemen, I propose that we join

639
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 3: our forces and start a bank. What do you say,

640
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: get out of this podcasting rat race and start ourselves

641
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: up a bank. Surely, no, you won't do it.

642
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 2: I won't do it. My soul shall not allow boys.

643
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 3: That's fair. I respect that.

644
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, but you know I kind of started a bank.

645
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well yeah, the Ben Bank. The Ben Bank

646
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: deals exclusively in ben bucks.

647
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: Unencumbered by souls. Yeah, also true.

648
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: But you know, so you then you understand Ben as

649
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 3: the head of the Bend Bank. This is all just

650
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: the cost of doing business, my guy, right.

651
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I want to say, in case this plays

652
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: in court later, technically I am not on the executive board.

653
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: I am a consultant, so nice try.

654
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 3: For the record, that was me lapsing into my douchebag

655
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: executive voice when I said, my guy, there, I just

656
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: had to walk that one back a little bit.

657
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: I like it.

658
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: People say, yeah, I just you know, it has to

659
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: be tongue slightly in cheek. But yeah, man, seriously, I

660
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: mean this is it was a slap on the wrist

661
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 3: is even putting it uh strongly? You know?

662
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that's a great point. I mean a thump

663
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: on the ear, you know, yeah, yeah, a finger wag

664
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: and a strong sentence using your full name exactly. That's

665
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: that's the issue with it, because this was I mean,

666
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: this literally is a cost of doing business. They didn't

667
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: emit wrong, Douane. They had plausible deniability. In short, this

668
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: bank thought they got away with it until that is,

669
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: employees like Hamback started coming forward, and there's there was

670
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: a list of employees who complained internally, because like any

671
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: large institution, there are channels through which you're supposed to

672
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: send your complaints. The list of employees who were skized

673
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: out by this and complained it stretches back over ten years.

674
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: People knew what was up, you know. Like again, it

675
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: might sound like we are vilifying Wells Fargo, but we're

676
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: talking about the crimes of an institution. Really, we're not

677
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: talking about any of the employees in the banking industry.

678
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: We're not talking about any of the employees in Wells

679
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: Fargo specifically. Right, These people are not the ones who

680
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: said make these impossible sales quotas.

681
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, as of this year twenty twenty, Wells Fargo

682
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: has agreed to rebillion in settlements for criminal charges and

683
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 3: a civil action that's stemming from its widespread mistreatment of

684
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 3: its customers in its community bank over a fourteen year period.

685
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 3: Court papers show that prosecutors described the insane environment that Ben.

686
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I was responding to when you first

687
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 3: said at the top of the show, you know, checking in,

688
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: explain to me why you didn't make it, you know,

689
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 3: justify your actions every single day. I mean, sure, accountability

690
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 3: is one thing, but this was very much like you

691
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: described it, Ben in your notes, as a pressure cooker

692
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: environment that was kind of created, just absolutely toxic work environment,

693
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 3: right so to very low level employees.

694
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, this is this is I don't know, We've

695
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: got a lot of people in the audience who've worked

696
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: in sales jobs or something with commission I don't know

697
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: if you guys have ever done that. I have not,

698
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: but it feels like a very demanding situation to be

699
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: put in, even when there's you know, absolutely no unethical behavior.

700
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: Most commissioned sales do not require unethical behavior. But like,

701
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: think about the pressure the next time you're in a

702
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: brick and mortar store. Think about the pressure and employees

703
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: under when they ask you those series of questions and

704
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: a purchase like have you ever bought something? And you know,

705
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: you just buy one thing you need, like maybe a

706
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: cable somewhere, or you're buying some pants or you know,

707
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: whatever you want to buy, and then the cashier starts

708
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: asking you a series of questions like what's your phone number,

709
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: you want to sign up for our credit card, you

710
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: want to sign up for a rewards card, and so on.

711
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I always say I'm good, Like when they ask

712
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: for my phone number or email. No, I don't ever

713
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: want anyone to have that, because there's no reason for it.

714
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: They act like it's said, oh so we can better

715
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: serve you next time, or have you on my database

716
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: and know what you like. I don't know why anyone

717
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: would ever give out their information at a brick and

718
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 3: mortar store like that, because you can.

719
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: You can get special perks guys, right, and now we're

720
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: family once they have all my info, Look, just give.

721
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 3: Me a card and punch a hole in it when

722
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: I buy a thing, and then give me a free

723
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: thing when I've punched enough holes in it. You know,

724
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 3: I'm old school like that. I'm finally that model.

725
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so imagine that you are. Again. We keep

726
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: trying to put ourselves in the position of the lower

727
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: level employees at you know, in an institution like this

728
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: when you like, maybe you have experienced a maybe a

729
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: quarterly meeting or a meeting with your company where everybody

730
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: gets together and they talk about the state of the

731
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: company and what's going on, and everything you know is

732
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 2: going up or down or for this reason, for that

733
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 2: other reason, things are going great or terribly. And imagine

734
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 2: you're in one of those meetings and you know that

735
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: you your your bank, your local chain of the bank,

736
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: and your manager. You guys did meet up to the standards.

737
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: But you guys did everything right, and you tried as

738
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 2: hard as you could, and you made some pretty good numbers.

739
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: But they're not quite what they were looking for. They're

740
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: not really even close, actually, But again, you did a

741
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 2: great job. Then, over this meeting, in this call, or however,

742
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: it goes some other branch, you know, let's say dozens

743
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: of miles away, for some reason, they exceeded this goal

744
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: that was way out of reach, and on this call,

745
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: your boss's boss's boss on this call says, man, you

746
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: guys just just killed it. You did a great job.

747
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: You guys are just rocking these numbers. Man, We're so

748
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: proud of y'all. You're getting bonuses, you're getting this, you're

749
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: getting that everybody on this call needs to look up

750
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: to this particular group, to this bank and do what

751
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: they did, and you know, imagine feeling that.

752
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, then those those people who were meeting these increasingly

753
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: difficult sales goals, they were the minority for a while,

754
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, and fairly often, and they often had to

755
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: achieve these things through unethical or illegal means. So that's

756
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: where we are, you know, as you said in all,

757
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: that's February of twenty twenty, just a few months ago.

758
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: What lessons we're learned from this retail bank conspiracy? Again,

759
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: not a theory, it's a conspiracy. Here's the thing. Part

760
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 1: of that twenty twenty deal with that three billion dollar

761
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: price tag includes a deferred prosecution agreement. That's an agreement,

762
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: a pact that could the positive way to say it

763
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: is that the bank could get further criminal or civil

764
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: charges if it engages in new criminal activities. So basically,

765
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 1: pay US three billion dollars, no criminal charges, but you're

766
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: in trouble because you got caught, and you'll be in

767
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: trouble if you get caught again. Okay, So trouble is

768
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: somewhere in this equation. My guy, smart en up.

769
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 3: We had our eye on you. Yeah, it's true, it's wow.

770
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: I just I can't believe that they're still around because

771
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 3: I guess you know, they're one of those too big

772
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: to fail organizations, right, So it's like, I don't know

773
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 3: how you get away with this and how people didn't

774
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: do as you said, man and just pull all their

775
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 3: money out. Yeah you know. I mean, And even though

776
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 3: this is this ongoing, it feels even to me, kind

777
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 3: of like a distant memory. I just feel like the

778
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 3: attention span for stuff like this for consumers is often

779
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: pretty short, and if it doesn't actually affect me personally,

780
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 3: then why should I do anything about it? Why should I,

781
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 3: you know, go to that inconvenience of pulling all my

782
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 3: money out and starting over, you know, even though it's

783
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 3: not that big a deal to start any bank account,

784
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 3: but it's slightly inconvenient, inn't it, right?

785
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 1: And you know there are I don't know about you guys,

786
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: but I go to extraordinary lengths to avoid any slight inconvenience.

787
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: I like a lot of people out there would like

788
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: to play life on easy mode. It barely ever happens,

789
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: but it's a nice thought. You're right, there was a

790
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: run on the bank, but it wasn't necessary. I mean,

791
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: there was a lot of terrible pr fallout from this,

792
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: and they went into overdrive on the Bernese front. But

793
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: a lot of investors reacted because remember they're kind of

794
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: like customers at a bank, but more important, you know,

795
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: they're the better customers. So the bank also, Wells Fargo

796
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: also set up a five hundred million dollar fund to

797
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: compensate the investors who took a hit or what do

798
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 1: investors say, who took a bath when Wells Fargo didn't

799
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: tell them that the banking business they had was not

800
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: as strong as all as fake accounts made it seem.

801
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: But asterisk that five hundred million dollar dollars is included

802
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: in that three billion dollars settlement total. So it's not

803
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: like they paid three billion dollars and then five hundred

804
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: million again. And this leads us to the conclusion as

805
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: it is, you know, to your point, to your point, Noel,

806
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: Obviously Wells Fargo was still around, It survived the Great Recession.

807
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: It assures the public, for its part and investors that

808
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: this will not happen again. This was, you know, somewhere

809
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: between a grave miscommunication in the in the command chain

810
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: or a few bad actors, but the bank itself. This

811
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: is true. The bank itself never condoned this activity.

812
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is true. They just.

813
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: They forced it to happen without realizing it. Let's say,

814
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: but here's the deal. It's not as though Wells Fargo's

815
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 2: acting alone. We've all talked about before the Wacovia dealings

816
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 2: and the problem that they had before they were absorbed

817
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: by or I guess bought out and absorbed by Wells Fargo.

818
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: The problems with other major banking institutions, including very similarly,

819
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: a little regional bank from Ohio called Fifth Third. You

820
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: may have heard of this. You may have seen one

821
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: of their branches. They've got them all over the nation.

822
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: There are thousands of them, and they have roughly one

823
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty billion dollars in assets. And guess what

824
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: they're accused of, the same thing, pretty much the same thing.

825
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know anything about that. One actually had

826
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 3: my mortgage through Fifth Thirds back when I owned a

827
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 3: house in Athens years ago. That's fascinating. Now that's news

828
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 3: to me. Yep.

829
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 1: They've been accused of, as you said, Matt, the same thing.

830
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: Right now, The litigation is ongoing, so we can come

831
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: back to this story with an update to pay on

832
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: how it all shakes out. And at this point, fellow

833
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy realists, we pass the torch to you, because there

834
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: is a dilemma here. It's a big problem and something

835
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: we're thinking about, and it's something that maybe doesn't have

836
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: a satisfactory answer yet. Retail banks are it's an understatement

837
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: to say they're a huge part of the economy. It's

838
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: an understatement to say they are irretrievably embedded in our

839
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: financial lives. I mean, we've had people right in before

840
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, from our cashlest Society episode, just

841
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: how difficult it is to live without some kind of

842
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: bank account, you know what I mean, and still be

843
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: in the real world system. So is a multi billion

844
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: dollar fine punishment enough? Are the banks, like you said, no,

845
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: are they truly too big to fail even when they're

846
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: caught red handed cheating? And you know to that point

847
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: that I think you had been making earlier too, Matt,

848
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: what would the approach punishment be if this is not appropriate.

849
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, yes, Ben. You remember you guys, remember

850
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: an episode we made quite a while back where we

851
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: interviewed Robert Maser. Yes, the infiltrator, the guy who helped

852
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 2: bring down an international bank because they were caught money

853
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: laundering for cartels. So I think I think there is

854
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 2: a world in which banks can be brought down. I

855
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: don't think this is gonna be it right.

856
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 3: You know, for reasons.

857
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: But I guess we have ourselves experienced, you know, just

858
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: through our interview and our connection with Robert, that it

859
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: is possible for a bank caught red handed to be

860
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 2: brought down.

861
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: I better requires such a burden of proof. The way

862
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 3: he traced the money and followed the money and was

863
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: like literally, you know, running secret ops within the bank,

864
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it was like it you can't.

865
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 3: It's it takes a lot, a lot, a lot a lot,

866
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: it would seem, and it requires absolute proof of knowing wrongdoing.

867
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 3: Because the thing here is again you really they could

868
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 3: easily argue, well, yeah, no law against having aggressive sales goals,

869
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 3: you know.

870
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, these are these are great points.

871
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: And I love that you're bringing up. I love you're

872
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: bringing up that earlier case meant because I you know,

873
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: I was thinking when we were talking about doing this episode,

874
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: I was thinking, what's what's going to happen. People are

875
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: listening to this and they hear a wells Fargo ad

876
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: in our in our show. You know this is not

877
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: None of what we have examined today is speculation, right.

878
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: I think we're very clear when we're saying, well, this

879
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: is our opinion, right, you know, one or all three

880
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: of us, all four of us, one of our opinions.

881
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: But these are simply the facts. This is crazy. This

882
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: did happen, and really it is a matter of your

883
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: own personal judgment. What do you think the punishment should

884
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: have been. Do you think this was too much? Do

885
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: you think it wasn't enough? What do you think will

886
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: happen in the future. We want to hear from you.

887
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: You're the most important part of this show that remains

888
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: true today as it did from our first YouTube video.

889
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: So let us know. You can find us on Facebook,

890
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram. You can find us

891
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Not just as a show or an institution,

892
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: dore I see, but as individuals.

893
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 3: That's right. If you wish to follow my core time activities,

894
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 3: you can do so on Instagram where I am at

895
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: how now, Noel Brown, I've been posting a lot of

896
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 3: Dutch oven cooking videos which marry me. I'll interest you.

897
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 3: I made my very first there's lamb Rogan Josh last

898
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 3: night with a big old lamb shoulder that I slow

899
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 3: cooked on the bone in this delicious Indian gravy for

900
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 3: about five hours, and I show like the progression of

901
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: it becoming delicious and falling off the bone. It was

902
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: a very successful experiment. I'm really excited about that Dutch

903
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 3: of him.

904
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: That's making me very very hungry. Oh my goodness, time

905
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: for dinner.

906
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: I think this, Matt, Is this the part where is

907
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: this an episode where you talk about your Instagram? Or

908
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 1: is this an episode where where you keep the audience

909
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: in the dark as dark as your awesome recording spot again?

910
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah you can. You can follow me. There are

911
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 2: some great updated pictures of my new haircut. Just search

912
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 2: for Richard Blaze on Instagram. You'll find me. You'll see it.

913
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 3: You cut your own hair, you cut your own hair,

914
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,479
Speaker 3: mat or is that you let your your lovely wife

915
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,439
Speaker 3: do it, perhaps your young son.

916
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: I haven't touched my hair with shears or any other

917
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 2: cutting implement since this whole thing begins.

918
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 3: So mainly just tearing it out and madness. Is that

919
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 3: what says yeah, it's all manual. Minds starting to fall

920
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 3: out in clumps. You know, I decaid, don't know. I

921
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 3: think I'm going to emerge from this with a receding hairline.

922
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: I actually I'm actually getting kind of old testament now

923
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: with not shaving the beard or cutting my hair. But

924
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: what I've been trying to do to have some regularity

925
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 1: during the day is to is to put on clothes

926
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: when I talk to you guys, and turn on lights

927
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: so that I'm not just a voice of glowing eyes

928
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: in the dark. But if you want to check out

929
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: my quarantine beard on Instagram, you're more than welcome to

930
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: follow me at Ben Bullen on Instagram, at Ben Bullen

931
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: hsw on Twitter, wherein I investigate any number of strange,

932
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: unusual things and keep you updated on the useless skills

933
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: I am honing during quarantine. I don't know if I

934
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: mentioned it to you guys on air, but now I

935
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: can name all one hundred and eighteen elements the periodic

936
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: table and it does not matter. Let me just assure

937
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: you no one else bothered doing that. It does not

938
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: affect your life in any way whatsoever.

939
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 3: I think it enriches your life. Ben and I'm I

940
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 3: say kudos to you for that.

941
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you if there was an element called

942
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: thank you, Neil, which I know there's no.

943
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 3: No, you know what I did, you guys, this is

944
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 3: my biggest claim to fame during this time. I'm not

945
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 3: gonna say which ones, but I definitely did a whole

946
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 3: day of recordings and zoom calls wearing no pants. Just

947
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 3: waiting that out there. Wait a second, No, I'm pants today. Pants? Okay,

948
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 3: yeah it was. I'm not gonna say if it was

949
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 3: this show or not. I do other shows, but I

950
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 3: definitely had some pretty high level executive producer type zoom

951
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: calls wearing no pants, and no one was the wiser

952
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 3: and if it felt like it gave me the upper hand.

953
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: Honestly, you gotta stay seated, you know what I mean,

954
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: unless at the very end you want to pull one

955
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: of those groves. Oh well, wow, I'm wearing pats.

956
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 3: Wow, I can verify.

957
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: But so so what if someone has something to tell us?

958
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: What if you are listening, you have something to share

959
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 1: with your fellow audience members, but you hate social media?

960
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,720
Speaker 2: What then you can give us a call. Our number

961
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: is one eight three three std WYTK we've been going

962
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: through a ton of messages lately. Please call us. We

963
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 2: are waiting to hear from you. We we may you know,

964
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: we may respond with it a call in kind, or

965
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 2: we might just you know, listen and then talk about

966
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: it here. We've got a huge doc now running. It's great,

967
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 2: so please continue to write to us, give us your

968
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: thoughts on this episode, any other episode, a future one,

969
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 2: or just things you want to chat about while you're

970
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 2: hanging out in quarantine while we do the same. Please

971
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 2: do give us a call one eight three three st

972
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 2: d WYTK.

973
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: And additional for longtime listeners, we have a show called

974
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: Strange News Daily that we'll be moving on to this feed,

975
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: so you'll be hearing something from us Monday through Friday

976
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: until the lights go out until Wells Fargo disappears. As

977
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: for this episode, you'll have to get in line behind Nesley.

978
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: Oh and we're really excited about that show. It's gonna

979
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: be kind of like this one, where you're gonna get

980
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 2: lots and lots of researched information packed into a shorter episode,

981
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 2: hosted by our very own Ben Bollen. We think you're

982
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 2: gonna love it. So now let us know what you

983
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 2: think about that show as well as you're calling in

984
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 2: and writing to us and talk to us on Twitter

985
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: most boorly.

986
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: It's produced by Dylan Fagan, which was a big get

987
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: for us. So we're, you know, like everybody else will

988
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,959
Speaker 1: working live. We're rolling with the punches. But there's one

989
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: thing that will never ever change. That is this. If

990
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: you hate phones, if you hate social media, you can

991
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: always contact us about any old thing twenty four to

992
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: seven at our good old fashioned email address where we.

993
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 3: Are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

994
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

995
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

996
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.