Speaker 1: In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
Speaker 1: and Entertainment. Welcome back to another episode of In Case
Speaker 1: You Missed It with Christina Williams here on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: and the WNBA regular season is coming to an end
Speaker 1: this week. It's been a great season, y'all. I mean
Speaker 1: lots of great matchups, storylines, some unexpected things happening in
Speaker 1: the season, but overall, I would say that this, hands
Speaker 1: down has been one of the best seasons that I've
Speaker 1: been able to witness and cover. I'm excited for this
Speaker 1: week's headlines and joining me this week to help break
Speaker 1: down all of the latest and women's basketball is a
Speaker 1: good friend of mine. She is a producer and she
Speaker 1: is also a WNBA analyst and digital creator for NBC Sports.
Speaker 1: My good friend Natalie es Squire is going to be
Speaker 1: in the house. We're going to break down Asia Wilson
Speaker 1: breaking the single season scoring record. She is the first
Speaker 1: player in WMA history to have a thousand points in
Speaker 1: a single season. Love that for Asia Wilson, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna move on to talk about Caitlyn Clark she
Speaker 1: breaks the rookie scoring record, and how dangerous the fever
Speaker 1: might be in the playoffs, especially in the first round
Speaker 1: if they face the Connecticut Son. Do they have the
Speaker 1: potential to advance in the second round and upset the
Speaker 1: Connecticut Son. We're gonna break that all down with Natalie.
Speaker 1: And then lastly, we're gonna talk about the final push
Speaker 1: for that eighth seed in the WNBA playoffs, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about Kathy Engelbert, who has issued an apology
Speaker 1: to the league's players for an appearance that she made
Speaker 1: last week on CNBC. But I want to welcome in
Speaker 1: this week's guest. I mentioned she is a good friend
Speaker 1: of mine. I want to welcome Natalie Esquire. She's a
Speaker 1: former lawyer turned w NBA reporter for NBC Sports. Natalie,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Christina, Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored
Speaker 2: and so excited to do this with you today. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I am so excited to have you on because
Speaker 1: I think that one this was a long time comming.
Speaker 1: So I'm happy that we're finally able to be in
Speaker 1: the same space together and to just have fun and
Speaker 1: talk hoops. But also I want to give you your
Speaker 1: flowers before we start. And this is coming from the
Speaker 1: heart because I truly mean it. I think that the
Speaker 1: work that you do is so necessary. And I tell
Speaker 1: you all the time, f what the haters say on
Speaker 1: social media. I know that you know, you know, you
Speaker 1: have people coming at you and stuff, but just know
Speaker 1: that the work that you do in this space is important.
Speaker 1: Your voice is necessary, and to keep going, keep your
Speaker 1: head hell high, chest out because you deserve it. And
Speaker 1: I know how hard it could be for black women
Speaker 1: particular in this media space. I last season went through
Speaker 1: something that was completely you know, crazy for me and
Speaker 1: just to see how the whole WNBA community is able
Speaker 1: to rally behind me, and so I'm here to say
Speaker 1: I'm rallying behind you and I support you in the
Speaker 1: work that you do. And I just thank you again
Speaker 1: for coming on the show this week. The pleasure, like
Speaker 1: I said, is aline and thank you. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm going to get emotional when we talk about Asia
Speaker 1: Wilson giving her her flowers, and so I'm trying not
Speaker 1: to be emotional now, but what you just said really
Speaker 1: touched my heart and really means so much coming from you,
Speaker 1: because yeah, like Asia said, last night. Sometimes she hates
Speaker 1: being Asia Wilson this year, particularly being in this space.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's been very hard. So I appreciate someone like
Speaker 1: you who's been a trailblazer in this space saying those
Speaker 1: things about me, and I really mean it. And you know,
Speaker 1: we talk offline. I'm not just doing this for show,
Speaker 1: because you're a guest on the show, and you know
Speaker 1: I support you in the work that you do and
Speaker 1: I'm here with you. I think that is important as
Speaker 1: a woman that we stick together, especially in this industry.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned Asia Wilson. We're going to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, her amazing game and breaking records, but just
Speaker 1: know that you know this is a safe for you
Speaker 1: here on this show. And so let's get into the headline.
Speaker 1: So on Sunday, Asia Wilson became the first player in
Speaker 1: WNBA history to score one thousand points in a single
Speaker 1: WNBA season. Now, Asia Wilson, she's been having such a
Speaker 1: dominating season thus far. Lots of people say she's the
Speaker 1: unanimous MVP. I had an opportunity to speak to Asia
Speaker 1: Wilson for NBC earlier in the season, and she told
Speaker 1: me that getting that fourth place vote last year was
Speaker 1: the motivation that she needed to come out and kill.
Speaker 1: We've seen her show up to games in the white
Speaker 1: T shirt and sweatpants meaning business Natalie. What does this
Speaker 1: accomplishment mean for her place in WNBA history? As the
Speaker 1: Aces look to three.
Speaker 2: P goodness, you have to start talking about Asia and
Speaker 2: the Goat conversation, right. I mean, I'm someone who really
Speaker 2: thinks like we don't want to prematurely crown people, But
Speaker 2: I mean, her resume is ridiculous. Like, just with the basics,
Speaker 2: She's a two time champion, a multiple time MVP, is
Speaker 2: about to get her third in my opinion, what should
Speaker 2: be her fourth, right Defensive Player of the Year. She
Speaker 2: just has all the accolades that you would want for
Speaker 2: a player who you're going to talk about in that
Speaker 2: Goat conversation. She's in the middle of trying to build
Speaker 2: a dynasty, right, and that could potentially happen if the
Speaker 2: Aces three repeat. She has the resume, she has the accolades,
Speaker 2: she has the stats to just mention the thousand points.
Speaker 2: She's also going to have the record this year for
Speaker 2: rebounds as well. In WNBA history. She'll lead in blocks
Speaker 2: this year as well, so blocks, rebounds and points in
Speaker 2: one season. It's never been done. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: Asia Wilson. She comes out and she does this on
Speaker 2: a nightly basis. She was the MVP of the Olympics.
Speaker 2: You have to start talking about her in the goat conversation.
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree, And I saw a tweet recently that said,
Speaker 1: we need to start talking about Asia Wilson in the
Speaker 1: same breath that we talk about Lebron James. She's accomplishing
Speaker 1: all of this before the age of thirty, and when
Speaker 1: you talk about this standalone season, she's averaging a double
Speaker 1: double of twenty seven points twelve rebounds per game. She's
Speaker 1: single handedly is the reason why the Aces are able
Speaker 1: to clinch for the playoffs this year, despite all the
Speaker 1: adversity that this team has had to face this season
Speaker 1: with injuries and losing players and getting new players additioned
Speaker 1: by subtraction. But I think that she is the best
Speaker 1: player in the world right now, and you have to
Speaker 1: consider her in those conversations. If she three piece, that's
Speaker 1: it just crowded to go. She's for sure going to
Speaker 1: be on Mount Rushmore when we talk about the greatest
Speaker 1: of all time in the WNBA. But I think that
Speaker 1: what we're seeing Sometimes because we cover the game, you
Speaker 1: can get lost in like you're witnessing history, something that
Speaker 1: has never been done before. When we look at players
Speaker 1: who have had great seasons, I think about Candace Parker,
Speaker 1: who is someone that I watched growing up and the
Speaker 1: reason why I covered women's basketball just seeing Candace Parker dominate.
Speaker 1: I think about Lauren Jackson in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: Cynthia Cooper at the inception of the WNBA, the season
Speaker 1: that she had her MVP season, as well Nekka Guomaka
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen when the sparks one. When you look
Speaker 1: at last season and this season, I think she would
Speaker 1: say too fairly that it's Asia Wilson against Asia Wilson.
Speaker 1: She wants to out best herself. But yees, certainly I
Speaker 1: think that that last season, just getting that fourth place vote,
Speaker 1: not getting MVP, it's her motivation. Would you consider Asia
Speaker 1: Wilson's season right now to be the best WNBA season
Speaker 1: that you've seen thus far?
Speaker 2: Yes? Probably, But I'm gonna give a little disclaimer that
Speaker 2: obviously I'm newer to this space, so as much history
Speaker 2: as I've tried to research, I'm sure there could be
Speaker 2: some others that I'm missing, but and there have been
Speaker 2: some great seasons. I mean, you mentioned Necas she was
Speaker 2: so dominant that season. She also probably had a little
Speaker 2: bit of a drive after getting snubbed for the Olympics.
Speaker 2: Candice Parker has so many great seasons if you think
Speaker 2: about also just more of course Smazi's out there also
Speaker 2: when you just think of like great MVP years, I
Speaker 2: always thought that Elena Deladon's was like one of the greatest.
Speaker 2: She's like fifty forty ninety that season. So there have
Speaker 2: been some really great seasons up there. But this kind
Speaker 2: of dominance when you're in the conversation to potentially be
Speaker 2: the second unanimous MVP in WNBA history, like, you just
Speaker 2: don't get unanimous a lot. And I don't know if
Speaker 2: she will because look, there was a fourth place voter
Speaker 2: last year, but I cannot see any reason that a
Speaker 2: voter would give another player first place over Asia. And
Speaker 2: I want to be clear, that's not saying that other
Speaker 2: players are not having MVP level seasons, but that's why
Speaker 2: they're second, third, fourth, fifth, And you acknowledge those players
Speaker 2: and the great seasons they're having by voting them in
Speaker 2: those categories. But if you only could pick one and
Speaker 2: your answer would be that it's Asia Wilson. Then she
Speaker 2: deserves those those all those first place votes. And so
Speaker 2: if you're in that conversation, if people are talking about
Speaker 2: your season like it should be unanimous, and that is
Speaker 2: the conversation you probably are having, if not the best,
Speaker 2: one of the best seasons in WNBA history.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And on Sunday, when Asia Wilson scored her thousandth
Speaker 1: point against the Connecticut Sun at home in a win,
Speaker 1: there was a postgame speech that she gave to her
Speaker 1: team in the locker room. I want us to take
Speaker 1: a listen and then we'll react to it.
Speaker 3: When you talk about special it's in this locker room.
Speaker 3: I love each and every last one of you.
Speaker 2: Queen.
Speaker 3: We just met a couple of weeks so ago, but girl,
Speaker 3: you came in here in jailed with us like you've
Speaker 3: been with us since Shanny Kamp, and those are the
Speaker 3: people that I love. As we're very I'm very particular
Speaker 3: about who we let in this locker room. So first off,
Speaker 3: thank you. When it comes to the rest of y'all,
Speaker 3: the ones that we've been through everything with, I am
Speaker 3: so appreciative. I don't get any of this without my
Speaker 3: guards feeding me to basketball.
Speaker 4: So thank you, guys.
Speaker 3: But I hope y'all know how much I love y'all,
Speaker 3: each and every last one of y'all.
Speaker 5: Y'all would never understand y'all mean to me because it's
Speaker 5: days where I hate.
Speaker 4: Being Angel Wolson. I hate it.
Speaker 3: But when I come into work and I see y'all
Speaker 3: smiling and I see y'all just happy.
Speaker 4: Makes me who I am.
Speaker 3: And I am so grateful to have teammates like y'all
Speaker 3: because I don't y'all listen, I.
Speaker 4: Can go on. Y'all are just amazing people.
Speaker 3: And I love coming into work with y'all single day
Speaker 3: because life is hard.
Speaker 4: We all know it is.
Speaker 3: But when I'm coming to work, can I see y'all,
Speaker 3: it changes my whole outlook a life so.
Speaker 4: Appreachia it for y' all because it's hard. We know
Speaker 4: it's hard.
Speaker 3: But I'm nothing without y'all, and I'm so grateful and
Speaker 3: thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Never change.
Speaker 1: I'll never change, Natalie. I see that you're a little
Speaker 1: emotional behind hearing those words from Asia Wilson addressing her
Speaker 1: team in the locker room post game. Can you just
Speaker 1: talk about what hearing those words from Asia Wilson. How
Speaker 1: does that make you feel?
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, it really resonated with me, I
Speaker 2: feel like, and I'm sure it resonated with a lot
Speaker 2: of people, but based on my timeline and the people
Speaker 2: that I saw resharing this video and specific talking about
Speaker 2: that quote, it resonated with a lot of Black women.
Speaker 2: And the crown that Asia wears is heavy. You know,
Speaker 2: she carries a lot, and I think many of us
Speaker 2: know that. But there's a saying people say often Black
Speaker 2: women are strong. It's actually an awful trope actually, because
Speaker 2: it dehumanizes us. It's this idea that we're always so strong,
Speaker 2: so nothing bothers us, nothing impacts us. And we saw
Speaker 2: it with Angel Reese when she was vulnerable in the past.
Speaker 2: The moment she said anything was hard. People said, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, like she's playing victim, right, And so I
Speaker 2: respect Asia for being vulnerable with us in this moment
Speaker 2: because we're often not allowed to be vulnerable, and her
Speaker 2: crown is heavy that she wears. You have the pressure
Speaker 2: of trying to repeat which has only been done once
Speaker 2: before in this strip of the League, and it was
Speaker 2: like at its inception, you know, and the aces were
Speaker 2: struggling this year and having to carry her team until
Speaker 2: they could get back to the aces. We all recognize,
Speaker 2: you know, there's all this commentary where a lot of
Speaker 2: the players, the black players, have been subject to a
Speaker 2: lot of racism and vitriol this season, and she asked
Speaker 2: to where all of that come out and perform every night.
Speaker 2: Seeing her break down like that, it made me emotional,
Speaker 2: but also it just resonated with me because we all
Speaker 2: try to do so much, you know, and if you
Speaker 2: really care about this league and you care about these women,
Speaker 2: how can it not resonate with you. So I'm sorry
Speaker 2: that I've been getting choked up, but it really was
Speaker 2: touching to watch, you know, And I just how can
Speaker 2: you not root for a player like Asia Wilson, you know.
Speaker 2: And so it was really just a tremendous, vulnerable moment
Speaker 2: that she shared with us, and I'm so thankful to
Speaker 2: get to watch her play and witness this history she's making.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, just rehearing that audio,
Speaker 1: it made me take a step back, and as you said,
Speaker 1: it resonated with me not only as a woman, but
Speaker 1: as a black woman to hear someone like her be
Speaker 1: vulnerable in that moment with her teammates. I think that
Speaker 1: those words just shows just how much of a great
Speaker 1: leader Asia Wilson is. Just even in you know, her
Speaker 1: most vulnerable state, she's still encouraging her teammates, still being
Speaker 1: that leader. But I think that I agree with you
Speaker 1: in saying that this moment kind of humanizes her because
Speaker 1: we use the words dominance, strong, just the words that
Speaker 1: we use to describe, you know, Asia Wilson's season and
Speaker 1: her skill, but not maybe sometimes not recognizing the human
Speaker 1: aspect of Asia Wilson. And you know, I love that
Speaker 1: you compared it to what Angel Lee was going through
Speaker 1: this season. I had several chances to talk to Angel
Speaker 1: about who she takes care of Angel when Angel's taking
Speaker 1: care of everyone else, you know. And I see the
Speaker 1: support system that Asia Wilson has and her family and
Speaker 1: her teammates and coaches, and I'm just so happy that
Speaker 1: she has that support, you know, as the best player
Speaker 1: in the league. And so I'm excited again to see
Speaker 1: all that Asia Wilson will do in her career. But
Speaker 1: I'm glad that people got a glimpse of that human moment,
Speaker 1: that vulnerability. I'm just excited to see, you know, where
Speaker 1: she takes this sport. She is undeniably the best player
Speaker 1: in the world right now, whether people want to recognize
Speaker 1: it or not. And as you said, that crown is
Speaker 1: heavy and she wears it very well. We're gonna take
Speaker 1: a quick little break, but more from Natalie Esquire when
Speaker 1: you return. Right now. The Aces regular season is winding
Speaker 1: down and they're looking to clinched the best possible seating
Speaker 1: for the playoffs. And we know that with the best
Speaker 1: possible seating, if they clinched four, you know they get
Speaker 1: the home court advantage in round one and they can
Speaker 1: potentially face the Seattle Storm and the best of three
Speaker 1: first round series. The Aces went three to zero last week.
Speaker 1: They beat the Fever twice, they beat Connecticut, and they're
Speaker 1: looking to three p I personally feel like this team
Speaker 1: is peaking at the right time, and it's something that
Speaker 1: people were like ring the alarm on the Aces. It's
Speaker 1: over for them. They're not going to three peat, and
Speaker 1: I think out of a silly honestly that people would
Speaker 1: think that the Aces were not going to turn a page. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Chelsea Gray, the point God, was not healthy in the
Speaker 1: first half of the season and it just took a
Speaker 1: little turn personal Olympic rate for Jackie Young Kelsey Plumb
Speaker 1: to get back in their rhythm. But now this team
Speaker 1: is turned up. You have like you have Sid Colson
Speaker 1: getting meaningful minutes off the bench, Tiffany Hayes producing and everything.
Speaker 1: It started to jail for this team at the right time.
Speaker 2: We know that.
Speaker 1: Defense was a point of emphasis for this team, and
Speaker 1: now they're holding opponents to about seventy three points per game.
Speaker 1: And so this is an Aces team that is ready
Speaker 1: for the playoffs right now. And so what are you
Speaker 1: looking for if they potentially face Seattle in a best
Speaker 1: of three first round series.
Speaker 2: Listen, this is my favorite time of year. I love
Speaker 2: going through all of these potential playoff scenarios. And there's
Speaker 2: a path where the Aces can move up to number three.
Speaker 2: So I would love to see them in a matchup
Speaker 2: with the Storm. You know, both of these teams have
Speaker 2: sort of had interesting years where admittedly, like when I
Speaker 2: do my power rankings, like there have been times I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know about the Storm, They're not contenders. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure about them. The Aces. I really wouldn't take
Speaker 2: them out of the contender class just because you give
Speaker 2: them that respect. Just two time champions, but like I
Speaker 2: felt like the Storm had been all over the place
Speaker 2: and they seem to be kind of getting it together
Speaker 2: at the right moment. Skylar is really like coming into
Speaker 2: her own and so you have a similar story going
Speaker 2: on over there. I think the Aces, the way they're
Speaker 2: playing right now should scare every team, you know, And
Speaker 2: I said, like, you know, I don't want to look
Speaker 2: too far ahead plast the first round, but I'm just like,
Speaker 2: you have to hate that if you're the Liberty first,
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be the best and you could potentially
Speaker 2: be seeing them in the second round because you don't
Speaker 2: expect the Aces to be so far in the standing
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the season. So I think it
Speaker 2: would be a great first round matchup the four and
Speaker 2: the five. Usually when it's like that, that usually means
Speaker 2: those teams are pretty even. I don't think they're even.
Speaker 2: I would pick the Aces in that series, but I
Speaker 2: think I think we'll get like a nice competitive matchup.
Speaker 2: A lot of names in that matchup, so I would
Speaker 2: really enjoy seeing that. But I can't ignore the potential
Speaker 2: of if they move up to three and then you
Speaker 2: know they were like in a different spot. That would
Speaker 2: be really interesting because then they would be playing the
Speaker 2: Indiana Fever, who they, as you mentioned, just beat two
Speaker 2: times last week. They want they beat them all all year,
Speaker 2: so they sweep them for the season. Would that have
Speaker 2: any kind of mental edge over that young Fever squad?
Speaker 2: So I would be interested in either. But I would
Speaker 2: like the standings to play out the way that they
Speaker 2: are right now because I am booking it. It's going
Speaker 2: to be Semis, Aces and Liberty. I want to see that,
Speaker 2: So I need this to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that with what happened in the
Speaker 1: off season with a lot of teams, a lot of
Speaker 1: teams responded to the Aces winning back to back championships
Speaker 1: and free agency by adding players necessary to compete against
Speaker 1: an Ace's team. And I think that if the Seattle
Speaker 1: Storm faced the Aces in round one, maybe you could
Speaker 1: potentially see upset because Nika Gumaka has been playing great
Speaker 1: basketball quietly has been playing MVP like a season as well.
Speaker 1: For the Seattle Storm. As you mentioned, Skyler Diggan Smith
Speaker 1: is finally finding her rhythm on this new team that
Speaker 1: she's a part of, and you're adding Gabby Williams, Jordan Horsten,
Speaker 1: jul Lloyd, who has had a little bit of struggles
Speaker 1: this season with consistency. But I think that the Aces
Speaker 1: they've proven time and time again that they can turn
Speaker 1: on a different switch when it comes time for playoffs.
Speaker 1: We seen it happen last season when they won the
Speaker 1: championship down a couple starters down Chelsea Gray, Keiaz Stokes,
Speaker 1: Candace Parker. They always find ways to win no matter what. Again,
Speaker 1: Sidney Coulson has been great with being that engine for
Speaker 1: the Aces when it comes to setting the tone whenever
Speaker 1: they need that extra bush. She comes off the bench
Speaker 1: and defensively she's just everywhere. She's scrappy. She does everything
Speaker 1: that doesn't show up in the box score for the
Speaker 1: Aces to really get them going defensively, I mean, Asia
Speaker 1: Wilson is Asia Wilson. She's gonna dominate regardless. But this
Speaker 1: is a tea that's filled with Olympians who have experience
Speaker 1: with winning. And then you look at the coaching staff.
Speaker 1: Becky Hammond is one of the greatest coaching minds in
Speaker 1: my opinion, in this league. She's just a mastermind when
Speaker 1: it comes to x's and Oh's Thy Marsh style to
Speaker 1: Ti Marsh and Natalie as well on that coaching staff,
Speaker 1: who's just been tremendous, Like this is a team that
Speaker 1: can play really well, but also they have a coaching
Speaker 1: staff that can out coach a lot of coaches in
Speaker 1: this league. And so I think that the Aces is
Speaker 1: still a very dangerous team now if they make it
Speaker 1: to the second round, and if the Liberty make it
Speaker 1: to the second round, because that number one seed is
Speaker 1: also up in air. Right now, the Liberty are number
Speaker 1: one in WNBA's standings, but if the Liberty lose their
Speaker 1: next two games and the Minnesota Links win their next
Speaker 1: two games, then the Links could be that number one seed.
Speaker 1: And so with the regular season ending, a lot of
Speaker 1: teams are trying to get the best possible seating for playoffs,
Speaker 1: and these next couple games for a lot of teams
Speaker 1: are going to be very significant when it comes to that.
Speaker 1: And so while the Liberty right now, as we record
Speaker 1: this two days ahead on Monday, while they are the
Speaker 1: number one team right now, the Links are right there.
Speaker 1: And the Liberty and Links faced each other on Sunday
Speaker 1: at Barclays and the Minnesota Links came out with the win.
Speaker 1: I was there and I was just like okay, I
Speaker 1: was speechless because it did not look like the Liberty
Speaker 1: team that has been the number one team all season.
Speaker 1: But also a lot can be said about the Links,
Speaker 1: who is the number one and three point shooting, number
Speaker 1: one in defense. Obviously, Sharyl Reeve, in my opinion, willin
Speaker 1: Coach of the Year this year, just for how she's
Speaker 1: been able to turn this team around that was ranked
Speaker 1: ninth in the preseason and now they're potentially going to
Speaker 1: be the number one, number two ranked team in playoffs.
Speaker 1: But if Visakalier has been playing outstanding, Alanna Smith defensively
Speaker 1: has improved, Kaylen McBride, Bridget Carlton, these players are players
Speaker 1: who have been considered underdogs for most of their career
Speaker 1: and now potentially on the run to potentially compete for
Speaker 1: a championship, and so I think that the Liberty obviously
Speaker 1: will have to step it up. They can't play complacent.
Speaker 1: They have to be able to just be consistent through
Speaker 1: all forty minutes. With that game against the Links on Sunday,
Speaker 1: they got off to a slow start and that's been
Speaker 1: at an Achilles Hill for the New York Liberty since last year.
Speaker 1: If John qwel Jones can't get going, then the Liberty
Speaker 1: aren't a really bad place. Sabrinneo Nascu and Branda Stewart
Speaker 1: combined for forty eight shot attempts, So there's a lot
Speaker 1: this New York Liberty team will have to figure out
Speaker 1: if they want to clinch that number one seed. They
Speaker 1: have two more games and they have to close out
Speaker 1: the season strong. But as you think a loss against
Speaker 1: the Links is maybe they needed right before playoffs to
Speaker 1: just reset. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I know a lot of people who are
Speaker 2: subscribed and follow you and listen to your podcast are
Speaker 2: New York Liberty fans.
Speaker 1: They are, but I'm listening. I will always straight no
Speaker 1: chaser with y'all because I know you'm with the team.
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with the New York Liberty,
Speaker 1: you know, I watched all the teams in the WNBA. Yep,
Speaker 1: But you know, it's just a team that's in my market,
Speaker 1: and so I just want to keep it real with y'all.
Speaker 1: That game was very alarming to see them drop it
Speaker 1: like that, you know, and the Links was up by
Speaker 1: as many as twenty plus points at one time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I do think that one good thing that I
Speaker 1: still was the ability for the Liberty in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: especially to crawl back. They were crawling back, crawling back,
Speaker 1: finding ways to crawl back, but they just went out
Speaker 1: of time. But when you have situations where John Paul
Speaker 1: Jones is not having a great game, where teams find
Speaker 1: a way to neutralize John Cuel Jones, Liberty are in
Speaker 1: a bit of trouble.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I only said that disclaimer because I don't think
Speaker 2: people realize I'm in the New York.
Speaker 1: Market too, So yes you are.
Speaker 2: So I'm at more Liberty games than any other team,
Speaker 2: but yet Liberty fans deem me a hater of the team,
Speaker 2: at least Liberty fans that are on X. So that's
Speaker 2: why I wanted to give that disclaimer. So with that
Speaker 2: being said, that game did not surprise me because I've
Speaker 2: said all year that the Links are a better team
Speaker 2: than the Liberty, and so I believe that, and I
Speaker 2: believe that should the Liberty end up in the finals,
Speaker 2: if it's the Links on the other side, I would
Speaker 2: pick the Links in that series. And with the Links,
Speaker 2: it's sort of a the whole is better than the
Speaker 2: sum of their parts, because New York is a more
Speaker 2: talented team. They have more high end talent on that team.
Speaker 2: But this is another team that has a deep bench,
Speaker 2: right like the Liberty, And they added make shahinz Allen right.
Speaker 1: Rights, and he could be a starter on any other team.
Speaker 2: Yes, And she's fitting so well right away, like there's
Speaker 2: been no.
Speaker 1: I know, she's happy by the way, to go from
Speaker 1: one of the worst are the best.
Speaker 2: And they add her to a team that was already
Speaker 2: like just flowing right, and so the chemistry is top notch.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: The Links are not even a great rebounding team, and
Speaker 2: they were like out rebounding the Liberty early on the boards.
Speaker 1: Well, I have the statue right here. I have the
Speaker 1: statuet I do. I do have the stat sheet right
Speaker 1: here because it was in my purse, y'all. But no,
Speaker 1: they were kind of like neck and neck when it
Speaker 1: came to rebounding.
Speaker 2: By the end of the game, but like by the
Speaker 2: first right early. And that sounds like they should not
Speaker 2: be out rebounding, y'all, Like right now, they shouldn't because
Speaker 2: they're not even great at this, you know. And so
Speaker 2: between their perimeter shooting, between their defense, their defense is
Speaker 2: so stingy, and they have the second best net rating
Speaker 2: in the league, so it's only second to the Liberty,
Speaker 2: but I like their defense more. And when it comes
Speaker 2: to teams like this who are evenly matched, and I'm
Speaker 2: actually being a little generous when I say evenly matched,
Speaker 2: because I genuinely think that the Links are the better team.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to teams that are evenly matched,
Speaker 2: then I go to who's the best player in the series,
Speaker 2: who would be the best player in the series, And
Speaker 2: if the two players sort of cancel each other out
Speaker 2: or they're the same level of player, I would consider
Speaker 2: the Fisa Collier and Brianna Stewart in the same tier.
Speaker 2: But I do think Visa right now, based on the season,
Speaker 2: is playing better than Brianna Stewart. She's had a better season.
Speaker 2: I think for most people. I'm not a voter, but
Speaker 2: I think for most people, Nafisa is going to be
Speaker 2: second most MVP ballots right and I think she's really
Speaker 2: the only person you could make a compelling case for
Speaker 2: as MVP, and I agree. I say it's compelling loosely right,
Speaker 2: because I do think Asia is unanimous. So the Links
Speaker 2: they just have it all clicking for them. The main
Speaker 2: thing is the Liberty. If they both end up in
Speaker 2: the finals, they would have home court, and I think
Speaker 2: that's important. But the Links have showed that doesn't matter
Speaker 2: for them. They've come into New York's home twice and
Speaker 2: beaten them. I know people don't want to look at
Speaker 2: the Commissoner's Cup, but it happened. People. It was there. Fine,
Speaker 2: you want to say that wasn't at Barclays. They came
Speaker 2: in and they did it at Barclays. Up until that point,
Speaker 2: I've been saying the Liberty have played one good quarter
Speaker 2: against the Links and they won. That's the only game
Speaker 2: that they won because it was their best quarter in
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: The Liberty struggled all night to get it going on
Speaker 1: the offensive end. Against the Links. They shot thirty nine
Speaker 1: percent from the field and only twenty nine percent from three.
Speaker 1: You just can't have that. And Sabrindi and Escu went
Speaker 1: four for twenty one four two t twenty one from
Speaker 1: the field.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I understand that the lead got so
Speaker 2: big and so Sabrina was trying to shoot them back
Speaker 2: into the game. But I would have liked to see
Speaker 2: from her what we've seen all season for the most part.
Speaker 2: When her shot isn't falling right, and I would have
Speaker 2: liked to see her attack more. I would have liked
Speaker 2: to see her going downhill. I'm not saying that's easy.
Speaker 2: I get that Minnesota defense, but I would have liked
Speaker 2: to see her take some easier shots, different kinds of shots,
Speaker 2: and then maybe work a little inside out. So that's
Speaker 2: what I would have liked to see. That felt a
Speaker 2: little bit like last year Sabrina or Sabrina.
Speaker 1: I agree with that.
Speaker 2: When she gets frustrated her shots and falling, she just
Speaker 2: sort of like settles and she starts like shooting it.
Speaker 2: And so I don't think we'll see many of those
Speaker 2: performances again. So I think the New York Liberty have
Speaker 2: to play perfect basketball. I really do to beat the Links.
Speaker 2: I would pick the Links in a series. I just
Speaker 2: I just think they're the better team. I do, and
Speaker 2: my mind hasn't changed from that.
Speaker 1: I attended the game on Sunday, and I waited for
Speaker 1: both teams to arrive in the tunnel. And when I
Speaker 1: tell you that, the Links came in and they meant business.
Speaker 1: They showed up to the game with their uniforms on.
Speaker 1: No one had on regular clothes, No tunnel walk. They
Speaker 1: came in with the warm ups, with the uniforms, ready
Speaker 1: to play. They meant business, and Cheryl Reied emphasized, you
Speaker 1: know in the pregame how critical she used the word critical.
Speaker 1: It was to stop John Cuwel Jones from imposing her
Speaker 1: will in the paint. And that is exactly what the
Speaker 1: Links did. They were able to knock the Liberty off
Speaker 1: their usual rhythm to get started in the game. They
Speaker 1: were able to just make John Cwell Jones less of
Speaker 1: an impactful player. She's one of the best players on
Speaker 1: the team. And if you take her out of it,
Speaker 1: what does this New York Liberty team look like? So
Speaker 1: it'll be very interesting. I do right now agree with
Speaker 1: you in saying that the Manison Links are a better
Speaker 1: than in New York Liberty, and if they do face
Speaker 1: each other, it could be scary hours. I'm going on
Speaker 1: records saying that. So I agree with you there. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a little break and when we come back,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk Caitlyn Clark and the Fever with Natalie.
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Clark scored a career high thirty five points and
Speaker 1: broke the rookie scoring record. She's already had the single
Speaker 1: season assist record, and at this point she's clearly the
Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year by a long shot. But my
Speaker 1: question is where Donna this season rank among the best
Speaker 1: all time rookie seasons in w NBA history. For me,
Speaker 1: I look at the season Kennis Parker had as a
Speaker 1: rookie where she won MVP in Rookie of the Year
Speaker 1: in the same season. That is my number one. But
Speaker 1: where do you have Katelin Clark's season ranking amongst all rookies.
Speaker 2: You know, it's probably like a top three season, top
Speaker 2: three to five. You know, I always worry that I'm
Speaker 2: like overlooking someone, but I will always agree with everyone
Speaker 2: that Candace Parkers is the greatest of all time as
Speaker 2: a rookie. So yeah, I'm probably gonna have to agree
Speaker 2: with you there on that one. But Caitlin is definitely
Speaker 2: having one of the best rookie seasons we've ever seen.
Speaker 2: Hands down, It's undeniable. I feel like someone who gets
Speaker 2: overlooked I had a great rookie season two was Simona Augustus.
Speaker 2: So I just want to point point that out. I
Speaker 2: saw a recent top ten list where she wasn't on it,
Speaker 2: but she was considered, and I don't know about that.
Speaker 2: I think she needs to be on the list, so,
Speaker 2: you know, and there's some I think that you know,
Speaker 2: I think a just rookie season, as little quiet as
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't get maybe the recognition that it should.
Speaker 2: So there's some others out there, But Caitlyn clarks Is
Speaker 2: I would put her somewhere in three to five. I
Speaker 2: don't know who I would put second, but I just
Speaker 2: definitely know that Candice is first, and I just feel
Speaker 2: like I'm forgetting someone. Caitlin. She has met expectations, she
Speaker 2: surpassed them. So everything that you know, people thought about her,
Speaker 2: and I candidly don't really think that anyone expected Caitlin
Speaker 2: to fail. I think that's sort of like revision is history.
Speaker 2: There are players, greats, others who thought she would have
Speaker 2: an adjustment period, and I think she did. But I
Speaker 2: think she adjusted very quickly. And you never know with
Speaker 2: every rookie if that's going to be a quick adjustment
Speaker 2: period or if it's going to take longer. You just
Speaker 2: don't know. But she adjusted pretty quickly. And once she
Speaker 2: figured out and once the Indiana Fever figured out how
Speaker 2: to play together, they took us with history.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, I mean, I mean Kitlyn Clark
Speaker 1: was that missing piece for the Indiana Fever, who have
Speaker 1: not made a playoff birth or run since twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: She was that missing piece. I think for me coming
Speaker 1: into this season, my favorite part about Caitlyn's game has
Speaker 1: never been really the scorn. We know she can do that.
Speaker 1: It's just how she can make the players better. And
Speaker 1: in this season we've seen the improvements with Kelsey Plumb
Speaker 1: being able to get more shots up, Alijah Boston now
Speaker 1: in her full element as well as the rating rookie
Speaker 1: of the year right now, and even players like Melissa
Speaker 1: when she get touch. It's just how all of the
Speaker 1: players on the Thiever are just really bonding, having that
Speaker 1: chemistry and just becoming a better team. Now in the
Speaker 1: first round, we know that they've clinched the number six seed.
Speaker 1: They are likely to play the Connecticut Sun in the
Speaker 1: first round. Obviously this is going to be a huge challenge,
Speaker 1: but I think that if there's any team that the
Speaker 1: Indiana Fever can possibly upset, it might be Connecticut. Where
Speaker 1: do you see a three game series going if the
Speaker 1: Fever were to face Connecticut in Round one? I need
Speaker 1: to take a deep breath.
Speaker 2: I do because I feel like I'm continuing the Connecticut
Speaker 2: disrespect capital CT at end. You know, It's like I
Speaker 2: feel like this team always feels like we're always slided.
Speaker 2: People don't take this seriously, and I don't want to
Speaker 2: be that person. They've had such a tremendous season yep,
Speaker 2: and you know, Dja Carrington would be my pick for
Speaker 2: most improved player. They just had an amazing season. They
Speaker 2: added Marina Maybury to this team and it's really helped
Speaker 2: their three point shooting and opened up the offense a
Speaker 2: little bit. But their offense still remains inconsistent. It is
Speaker 2: their Achilles heel. And because of that, if it's clicking
Speaker 2: and they're clicking on all cylinders right then I would
Speaker 2: pick them to win. I just don't know which offense
Speaker 2: I'm going to get each game. I don't know which
Speaker 2: version I'm going to get. And the Indiana Fever, to
Speaker 2: their credit, their defense has really improved post Olympics, and
Speaker 2: so I don't know. I do think if they're going
Speaker 2: to upset a team, it would be the Connecticut Sun.
Speaker 2: If I were the Sun. If they don't win their
Speaker 2: next game against the Links, I think you have to
Speaker 2: make a business decision, right, And I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: describe this as ducking. I don't think that the Sun
Speaker 2: fair any team. I don't Their defense is incredible. But
Speaker 2: when I say you make a business decision, is it
Speaker 2: worth getting any of your players rest at the end
Speaker 2: of the season, right, Do you care strongly if you're
Speaker 2: playing the three or the four. Also, just because you
Speaker 2: rest players doesn't mean you still won't win the game.
Speaker 2: You'd have Chicago Sky in that last game and they're
Speaker 2: pretty injury riddled, so you probably still have a good
Speaker 2: chance of winning. But I would make a business decision
Speaker 2: as in, do I want to rest my players? Do
Speaker 2: I want to have them as rested as possible? Because
Speaker 2: this team, the Indiana Fever, they like to play with pace,
Speaker 2: they like to push. They want their bigs running the floor.
Speaker 2: They want Kelsey Mitchell running. She's so fast, she's so quick.
Speaker 2: And Dja Carrington is still I think, probably the best
Speaker 2: defender in the league on Caitlin, if not one of
Speaker 2: the top two. Right Jackie Young is pretty good on
Speaker 2: her too, and she's gonna get tired out, you know.
Speaker 2: Having to be on Caitlin for most of that series,
Speaker 2: and so how does that affect her offense if it
Speaker 2: does right? And so these are just things you have
Speaker 2: to consider if you're going to get into a matchup
Speaker 2: with a team that plays like them, and Caitlyn Clark
Speaker 2: is going to push and push and push and push,
Speaker 2: make a business decision. That's all I'm saying. You have
Speaker 2: to consider it. And so I think that series can
Speaker 2: definitely go three. I think the Fever can upset them.
Speaker 2: But I think I agree with you. If there's a
Speaker 2: team that upset Connecticut, it's definitely the Fever.
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's just something different about this Sun
Speaker 1: team this year where you see spurts of a team
Speaker 1: who could make a deep run in the postseason, and
Speaker 1: then there's some moments where it's like, wait, what is
Speaker 1: going on? But to your point, I agree, Dhna Carrington
Speaker 1: has been a great defender on Caate mcclark. She's been
Speaker 1: good at just neutralizing her on offense when these two
Speaker 1: teams match up. Obviously, Alyssa Thomas is the engine for
Speaker 1: this team, the leader of this team. She's great on defense.
Speaker 1: On offense, you know, she does a great job at
Speaker 1: getting downhill, finding open open players, on offense as well,
Speaker 1: But it's all about consistency and just what kind of
Speaker 1: night are you going to get from the Connecticut sun.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited for the playoffs now. Also with the playoffs,
Speaker 1: we're talking about seating and as of today, because we
Speaker 1: filmed this show two days ahead, so it's Monday. The Mystics,
Speaker 1: Dream and Sky they have thirteen wins each, and you
Speaker 1: know they're gunning for that eighth, number eight seed when
Speaker 1: we talk about the playoffs, and we know that the
Speaker 1: number one will face the number eight, So who do
Speaker 1: you think will be the best possible outcome? And all
Speaker 1: of this For me, I think that if the Mystics
Speaker 1: clinched that number eight seed, maybe people will try to
Speaker 1: vote Eric Tibo as Coach of the Year because they
Speaker 1: started zero to twelve. Yeah, I mean, I think he
Speaker 1: still goes to share reef. But I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 1: this is a team has had to face so much
Speaker 1: adversity with injuries and just trying to figure out what works.
Speaker 1: And then you have the Dream who they have the
Speaker 1: talent there, right, the talent is there, but it just
Speaker 1: seems like something else is missing. And then the Sky,
Speaker 1: I mean, they face so much adversity with having a
Speaker 1: new coach, having to have some of their key players,
Speaker 1: you know, battle injury and Elizabeth Williams, Angel Reese and
Speaker 1: then Kamela Karto so did one with her shoulder, et cetera,
Speaker 1: losing Maria mayvery as well. So you know, these three
Speaker 1: teams that are trying to figure it out, you know,
Speaker 1: but I feel like these are also three teams that
Speaker 1: if they don't make the playoffs, they definitely can benefit
Speaker 1: from possibly getting into the Loudy draw, getting some players
Speaker 1: in the draft next year expansion Draft. It's also happening.
Speaker 1: So teams that are like a couple pieces of way
Speaker 1: from just being better. So what are you looking at
Speaker 1: when we talk about, you know, that number eight spot.
Speaker 2: I have no clue who's gonna win that eighth spots.
Speaker 2: I can't even I can't even try to guess. But
Speaker 2: this is one of them things like my handle is
Speaker 2: not fluential, Like y'a should follow me because I've tweeted
Speaker 2: out like all the different multiple scenarios because.
Speaker 1: Like adoptor strange, all the different possibilities.
Speaker 2: I love this. I love just playing out like all
Speaker 2: the different things that can happen. And maybe this is
Speaker 2: something you can tell me because this would inform my decision.
Speaker 2: But I know the Liberty rested players the last game
Speaker 2: of the season. Uh, It's something that often happens on
Speaker 2: the NBA side of things, But I don't know if
Speaker 2: that's a typical in the WNB. How do most teams
Speaker 2: typically handle it.
Speaker 1: I think that this is one of the first seasons
Speaker 1: that I've actually seen, you know, players sit out because
Speaker 1: of rest like that. In the W I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: an NBA they call it load man, this marander or
Speaker 1: something like that. But in the W now you see
Speaker 1: more players prioritizing rest one because there's more games. They're
Speaker 1: playing forty games this season, whereas it was thirty six
Speaker 1: at one point. At one point they were playing thirty two.
Speaker 1: So when you look at the Liberty, for example, right
Speaker 1: Brandon Stewart leads the league in minutes. I believe she's
Speaker 1: averaging almost thirty thirty eight minutes a game. This is
Speaker 1: a player who needs rest for the playoffs, because we
Speaker 1: saw that because she didn't have enough standminaugh in the
Speaker 1: postseason last year because she was being used so much.
Speaker 1: That hurt the Liberty ultimately. And that's one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why they lost against the Aces is Brandon Stewart's
Speaker 1: tank was empty when it came to the postseason. So
Speaker 1: I think that you know coaches and players and you
Speaker 1: know teams, they're looking at, you know, how can we
Speaker 1: be the best possible team, but also rest ours and
Speaker 1: look at the goal ahead, which is obviously to win
Speaker 1: a championship. And so I think at this season I
Speaker 1: saw a couple of players on the Aces rest as well,
Speaker 1: and so I think that this is one of the
Speaker 1: first seasons that I've actually seen it. But also I
Speaker 1: think it's important because when you look at the context
Speaker 1: of the season of being an Olympic year, multiple players
Speaker 1: across the league participating in the Olympics, whether it was
Speaker 1: three x three or five on five for their national teams.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot going on the forty game season,
Speaker 1: and next year I think it's going to go up
Speaker 1: with more games. So just moving forward, we probably see
Speaker 1: a lot more of that happening.
Speaker 2: I think for the teams that are battling for eight,
Speaker 2: I think their opponents for that final game, you could
Speaker 2: see rest from some of them, especially if there's nothing
Speaker 2: to play for. The Mystics would have to play the
Speaker 2: Fever in their very last game. I think there's no
Speaker 2: chance they're going to play the Liberty next. I think
Speaker 2: there's no chance the Liberty go into DC and lose
Speaker 2: that game. If they do, yeah, I will have a
Speaker 2: field day with that one. So I expect the Mystics
Speaker 2: to lose anyway, and that would well depending on what
Speaker 2: the other two teams in eight do battling for that spot,
Speaker 2: due that would probably potentially knock them out, but their
Speaker 2: final game would be against the Fever. The Fever are
Speaker 2: locked into six, like you already said, so are they
Speaker 2: going to play their players? I kind of feel like
Speaker 2: the way Kaitlyn Clark was talking in the postgame, they are,
Speaker 2: But that's the coach ultimately who's going to make that decision, right,
Speaker 2: Like if she's like, are they fine that if they
Speaker 2: don't play and they lose, they're going to be comfortable
Speaker 2: finishing with a five hundred record, because then they wouldn't
Speaker 2: finish above five hundred. Like, these are probably things that
Speaker 2: they're factoring in. But ultimately, do you want to get
Speaker 2: Elia Boston rest? Do you want to get Kaitlyn rest?
Speaker 2: Caitlyn plays a lot of minutes, right, do you want
Speaker 2: to get any of these players rest. You're locked into
Speaker 2: your spot, right, so the mystics may not have to worry.
Speaker 2: I like, I don't know some of these teams might
Speaker 2: be inclined to rest players, including the Aces, which means
Speaker 2: like they may not chase the three seed because Becky
Speaker 2: talked about getting Asia another another rest day. So because
Speaker 2: this doesn't seem to be a normal practice in the WNBA,
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to happen, but I do
Speaker 2: think load management, if you will, could potentially be something
Speaker 2: that affects those games on Thursday. So I don't know
Speaker 2: who's going to win it, but I'll tell you what
Speaker 2: I would preferm what my preference would be. I'd still
Speaker 2: like the Sky to make it. I really would. I
Speaker 2: don't think any team is going three games with the Liberty.
Speaker 2: The Liberty are sweeping any of these teams they play.
Speaker 2: I feel very confident about that. So I don't really
Speaker 2: know if one team is harder for them than the other.
Speaker 2: But I think it's a cool story with all the
Speaker 2: adversity they've faced this year, Kennedy Carter coming back after
Speaker 2: missing last season, her you know, having to be out
Speaker 2: for a little bit, and helping safety protocols also contributed
Speaker 2: to just they're a perfect storm of struggles. So for
Speaker 2: her to have a chance in the postseason if Camilla's
Speaker 2: you know, shoulder is good enough. So I would still
Speaker 2: like them to make it. And I think it would
Speaker 2: be cool to have Angel rees on the sidelines. I'm
Speaker 2: assuming she'd be with them miked up. I think that
Speaker 2: would be like a fun thing to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, until your point, you know, Angel Reese, I've already
Speaker 1: seen her with her little clipboard on the sidelines, you know,
Speaker 1: talking to tea spoon on the sideline. So she's definitely
Speaker 1: on the sidelines cheering on her team. I think right
Speaker 1: now as Monday in Atlanta dream uh, you know, tie
Speaker 1: the head to head with Washington to two in their series,
Speaker 1: so the next tiebreaker, Uh, if they were in a
Speaker 1: two way tie against against other teams, I think you
Speaker 1: have to be a five hundred or better in order
Speaker 1: to clinch that seat. So, you know, we'll see what
Speaker 1: happens when it comes to the seating. There's so many
Speaker 1: different things if there's a three way time and there's
Speaker 1: so many different possibilities between the three. But moving right
Speaker 1: along to the next top, I want to get into
Speaker 1: the controversy in the w NBA that has been a
Speaker 1: huge topic this week. Kathy Engelbert recently wrote an apology
Speaker 1: letter to the w NBA players after she appeared on
Speaker 1: CNBC's Power Launch last week, where she was asked about
Speaker 1: the menacing tone surrounding you know, the rivalry or storylines
Speaker 1: between Angel Reach and Caitlyn Clark. You know, the segment
Speaker 1: talked about the growth of the w n B A
Speaker 1: and you know Kathy's response or initial response to the
Speaker 1: question that was posed to her, she focused more on
Speaker 1: the popularity of the rivalry versus you know, the dark
Speaker 1: side of how fans on social media have used Kitlyn
Speaker 1: Clark or Angel Reach as a form of weaponization and
Speaker 1: divisiveness to I guess prop up, you know, racism and
Speaker 1: all of that. And I know that this is a
Speaker 1: topic that you know, it's very dear to you, Natalie,
Speaker 1: and so obviously, you know, Commissioner Ingelbert face some backlash.
Speaker 1: What was your initial response or reaction to just hearing
Speaker 1: that answer from the commissioner in regard to you know,
Speaker 1: the social media weaponization. I guess that fans have used
Speaker 1: this rivalry for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly felt like many of the players. I
Speaker 2: was disappointed by it. I was not surprised by it.
Speaker 2: It sounded uninformed, but I don't think she's uninformed. So
Speaker 2: it was frustrating as well because it was a choice
Speaker 2: to sort of ignore the repercussions of what comes with
Speaker 2: this quote unquote rivalry, which is very manufactured on some level.
Speaker 2: And so, and I think the comparison to Magic and
Speaker 2: Bird was interesting because in doing that, in her answer,
Speaker 2: she also explicitly stated, you know, like one black, one white.
Speaker 2: So it feels like you're expressly acknowledging that there is
Speaker 2: a race factor, and yet you're romanticizing what happened with
Speaker 2: Magic and Bird, because that also had many racial undertones
Speaker 2: and involved racism, and both players Bird and Magic are
Speaker 2: on record stating that. So for her to make those comments,
Speaker 2: particularly not too long after Angel Reese had her debut
Speaker 2: podcast episode and stated that people have tracked down her
Speaker 2: address and her life has been threatened. There are safety
Speaker 2: concerns We're not just now talking about like fans being
Speaker 2: crazy on the internet, but that's like your actual safety.
Speaker 2: And so it was just a really dis pointing response.
Speaker 2: It was tone deaf. If you will and I felt
Speaker 2: like that that was the general sentiment I saw from players,
Speaker 2: so I was in agreement with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And speaking of players who you know spoke out
Speaker 1: against it, there were many players who reacted on ex
Speaker 1: post interview and it was a huge topic of conversation.
Speaker 1: Here's what Brianna Stewart had to say about Kathy Engelbert's
Speaker 1: initial response to that question on CNBC Take a listen.
Speaker 5: It's kind of disappointing to hear because you know the
Speaker 5: way that the fans have surged and especially behind.
Speaker 4: Klan and Angel coming to this league, but.
Speaker 5: Also bringing that a race aspect to a different level,
Speaker 5: and you know, there's no place for that in that sport.
Speaker 4: And I think that's really it is.
Speaker 5: We want our sport to be inclusive for and race,
Speaker 5: you know, gender and really a place where people can
Speaker 5: be themselves.
Speaker 4: So we wish.
Speaker 5: Obviously Kathy would use a platform in a different way
Speaker 5: and have made that a little bit better.
Speaker 4: But kind of just telling the fans like.
Speaker 5: Enough is enough, you know, become a fan of our
Speaker 5: sport and for the new ones like walking on everybody,
Speaker 5: but don't be disrespectful.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, when you hear one of
Speaker 1: the top players in the league. You know, condemn that
Speaker 1: response is gonna elicit like a reaction. And the commissioner, obviously,
Speaker 1: after Brandis Storer said those words in a postgame interview,
Speaker 1: she took to Twitter and she made a statement and
Speaker 1: she said quote to be clear, there's absolutely no place
Speaker 1: or for hate or racism of any kind in the
Speaker 1: w NBA or anywhere else. That statement on Twitter received
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of backlashes. People felt like
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough. Kathy Engelbert then wrote a letter to
Speaker 1: the play of the WNBA in the players Union addressing
Speaker 1: her response. Cy NBC and I was able to obtain
Speaker 1: a copy of that letter, and here's some of what
Speaker 1: she said in that letter. She said, quote, I regret
Speaker 1: that I didn't express in a clear and definitive way
Speaker 1: condemnation of the hateful speech that is all too often
Speaker 1: directed at w NBA players on social media. I should
Speaker 1: have stated directly and unequivocally that hate speech is harmful.
Speaker 1: This is a teachable moment and one that I embraced
Speaker 1: with humility. There's absolutely no room for racism, misogyny, homophobia,
Speaker 1: and other forms of hate in the w NBA. Or
Speaker 1: anywhere end quote. So I think that you know, as
Speaker 1: Kathy mentioned in that letter to her players, this is
Speaker 1: a teachable moment for her, as you know, the commissioner
Speaker 1: and someone who was a leader of the league. What
Speaker 1: did you make of, you know, Kathy kind of just
Speaker 1: owning up to missing the mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad that the letter was more strongly worded.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't love that it had to take all of
Speaker 2: this backlash to get there. It also concerns me a
Speaker 2: little bit that she's not already aware of these things.
Speaker 2: She's not a brand new commissioner, so and it's not
Speaker 2: a new issue to the WNBA at all, you know,
Speaker 2: and this season it's been exacerbated and it's been like
Speaker 2: this thing in the background, the elephant in the room,
Speaker 2: if you will, and no one has addressed it. I mean,
Speaker 2: fans have addressed it. There are certain people in the
Speaker 2: media like myself and others who have addressed it, but
Speaker 2: largely it hasn't been officially addressed by the league. And
Speaker 2: it finally was asked directly to her, and this was
Speaker 2: her moment to make this statement there, the strong statement,
Speaker 2: and she didn't. And actually what she was asked on
Speaker 2: CNBC is how are you going to get ahead of it?
Speaker 2: What is the league going to do? And that question
Speaker 2: still hasn't been answered, and that's the question that I
Speaker 2: want to know. Now she's vowed to do better. She's
Speaker 2: had talks with Branda Stewart, with nekka Ogumaka, you know,
Speaker 2: so she's having I guess, the requisite conversations, and the
Speaker 2: leaders of the players Union, some of the most notable
Speaker 2: faces of the WNBA seem incline to work with her
Speaker 2: on trying to get this better. So I think we
Speaker 2: have to follow their lead. If the players are still,
Speaker 2: you know, working hand in hand with Kathy, I think
Speaker 2: we just have to watch and see. But this sort
Speaker 2: of reminds me, not because of what incident caused this,
Speaker 2: but this reminds me of like the post George Floyd
Speaker 2: error when that happened, right, So something happened, a situation happened.
Speaker 2: In this case in the WNBA, it's like it's been
Speaker 2: bubbling and then you know, a question was asked, but
Speaker 2: something happened, and then the reaction to it was everyone
Speaker 2: being swift and supporting black lives and implementing program and organizations.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a former practicing employment lawyer, so DEI
Speaker 2: initiatives all these things right, and then the court started
Speaker 2: striking things down. A lot of these companies that pledge
Speaker 2: money places didn't do anything. So I'm just always skeptical,
Speaker 2: not because I don't want to take Kathy at her word.
Speaker 2: It's been my experience in corporate entities that they say
Speaker 2: the right things. And this wasn't even publicly. This was
Speaker 2: a letter to the player. So you made the initial
Speaker 2: statement publicly and then you gave us a post on
Speaker 2: X which also didn't meet the mark. But then you
Speaker 2: gave this really detailed letter behind the scenes privately to
Speaker 2: the players. And so I just need to see the action. Really,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm really not for performative things, and I
Speaker 2: don't know that it's performative. I'm just saying I just
Speaker 2: want to see the action. When I joined this show today,
Speaker 2: you said this is a safe space for you, and
Speaker 2: I want the space to be safe for the players.
Speaker 2: And while you cannot control fans, you can't. You can
Speaker 2: set a boundary and a standard and say we're not
Speaker 2: going to stand for this. This is not just a
Speaker 2: fan issue, and I want to make that very clear.
Speaker 2: Usually my criticism hasn't been about fans, because you really
Speaker 2: can't control strangers on the Internet. But the media, the
Speaker 2: national media, they are a major part of this and
Speaker 2: a major problem. They incite fans. They incite fans with
Speaker 2: the stories they choose to write and focus on with
Speaker 2: breaking yes, the way they frame conversations, the notifications that
Speaker 2: they put out on social the league itself and how
Speaker 2: it chooses to highlight certain players and what they highlight
Speaker 2: and who they do things for. Right, this is something
Speaker 2: that's institutional, it's systematic. It's not going to just change
Speaker 2: without a lot of work.
Speaker 1: It's not only happening to the black players now. But
Speaker 1: when Caitlin Clark liked Taylor Sweets comment for her endorsement
Speaker 1: for Kamala Harris Boom, you just saw like, it's not
Speaker 1: only happening to you know, the black players. Is it
Speaker 1: happening to them mostly? Yes, absolutely, But you know, as
Speaker 1: you said, like something has to be done right, And.
Speaker 2: Those people were not really Caitlin Clark fans. And that's
Speaker 2: the thing. We always knew that they were using her
Speaker 2: as a proxy to attack the queer players in this league,
Speaker 2: the black players in this league, and whatever other agendas
Speaker 2: that they have, you know, so I just want to
Speaker 2: see action. I want to see I want to hear
Speaker 2: or know the plan, you know, I want to know
Speaker 2: what they're going to do. I just want to see real,
Speaker 2: tangible steps before I really grade the league and Kathy
Speaker 2: on what they're doing. But I do appreciate that she
Speaker 2: did write something eventually that I do think struck the
Speaker 2: right tone and that she, at least on its face,
Speaker 2: seems to want to work with the players to get
Speaker 2: it right and get better. And so we'll see.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I do want to say a point of
Speaker 1: emphasis in this letter that we've obtained that Kathy Ingelbert
Speaker 1: wrote to the players, there were three points of emphasis,
Speaker 1: and here are the actions per Kathy Engelbert. In this letter.
Speaker 1: She said, one, we will be clear and swift to
Speaker 1: denounce racism, misogyny, and homophobia. That was like the first point.
Speaker 1: The second point says, quote, we will continue providing mental
Speaker 1: health resources and guidance to you and our teams end quote.
Speaker 1: The third point said quote, we will listen to you
Speaker 1: and find ways to work together to fight against the
Speaker 1: hate that you experience. So and that quote right there.
Speaker 1: But I think that when we talk about the WNBA,
Speaker 1: right like when we think about the twenty sixteen movement,
Speaker 1: the George Floyd movement, what they've been able to do
Speaker 1: in terms of politics, when they helped to essentially flip
Speaker 1: the Senate and get warn Off elected. Of just how
Speaker 1: this league, added core, has always been a league to
Speaker 1: take action and to use the platform to raise awareness
Speaker 1: for injustice. I think that, you know, just whatever happened
Speaker 1: with Kathy, of course she missed the mark, but in
Speaker 1: the same way you're going to see I think them
Speaker 1: speak up more about, you know, the social media engagement
Speaker 1: with the fans anti bullying campaigns. We saw Angel reach
Speaker 1: in the Chicago Skoty pretty much take a stand when
Speaker 1: it came to that. How the league has been able
Speaker 1: to protect players, I guess and with changes in the
Speaker 1: media policy to a certain extent, with certain players who
Speaker 1: have been experiencing this. I do like that, you know,
Speaker 1: Commissioner Engelbert said that, you know, we're going to provide
Speaker 1: these mental health resources and continue to help guide, but
Speaker 1: also continue to have a conversation and dialogue about how
Speaker 1: we can work together to protect the players, because at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we can't control right what
Speaker 1: someone says online, but maybe we can do some actual
Speaker 1: steps one to help prevent it by doing more anti
Speaker 1: bullying campaigns. Like I said, I love what the Chicago's
Speaker 1: guy did with that initiative because you see things like
Speaker 1: Asia Wilson right when she says like sometimes I hate
Speaker 1: being Asia Wilson and you kind of dig deep in
Speaker 1: and see like, you know, her crown is heavy, or
Speaker 1: you know, players who don't want to participate in certain
Speaker 1: media responsibilities because of the mental health aspect. So I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, it's important that the commissioner took
Speaker 1: accountability both publicly and privately with the players, but you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully they can work together to create some more actuable items.
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that stood out
Speaker 1: to me about all of this in the last week
Speaker 1: was obviously players and fans saying that they would love
Speaker 1: to see Mekkaguma k be the next commissioner of the
Speaker 1: w n b A. And if you watch the Shattered
Speaker 1: Glass documentary Bring a Stewart Mekka Gumaka and John quelt Jones.
Speaker 1: Meka Guomak serves as the president of the w NBPA
Speaker 1: for the players right now, but she's been a great
Speaker 1: leader in the league. She's been a part of the
Speaker 1: conversations in the twenty twenty CBA and they addrest her
Speaker 1: as Madam President. The players they respect her so much.
Speaker 1: She has a Stanford education from an ivy league. She's
Speaker 1: very smart. Most of the players in WM are smart.
Speaker 1: They had that get their college degrees. But you know,
Speaker 1: this is someone the players see as a leader. She
Speaker 1: hasn't denied that maybe this is something she would pursue
Speaker 1: post basketball career. And so what are her thoughts about
Speaker 1: the possibility of Neka Aguma k being the next commission
Speaker 1: of the w NBA after basketball is over for her?
Speaker 2: I think that would be incredible, you know, I really do.
Speaker 2: I would love to see it. You know, I think
Speaker 2: people aren't gonna like that I say this, but I
Speaker 2: think this league needs a black woman to lead it.
Speaker 2: And I think it needs not just a black woman.
Speaker 2: I'm not even one of the people who thinks it
Speaker 2: has to be a pass player though I think that
Speaker 2: is important to understand the players side of things, but
Speaker 2: it needs to definitely be someone who understands intersectionality. And
Speaker 2: I think that's key, and I think that's important, and
Speaker 2: I just don't think that many understand it besides groups
Speaker 2: who are a part of it. You know, you have
Speaker 2: to experience intersectionality to I really think, be able to
Speaker 2: understand it and it's impact and to plan around it.
Speaker 2: So former player fits the demographic representing a league that
Speaker 2: majority looks like her. I think it's needed in a
Speaker 2: way that may not be as needed in a league
Speaker 2: like the NBA.
Speaker 1: You know, seeing WNBA players be successful post WNBA career
Speaker 1: in the front offices, on the coaching staff, and so
Speaker 1: this is a league that really takes pride in setting
Speaker 1: players up for the next steps after their basketball career
Speaker 1: is over. And you know, we don't know up in
Speaker 1: the air. So can Nekagoombka be the next commissioner of
Speaker 1: the w NBA. Only time will tell. Natalie, I want
Speaker 1: to thank you for just being here this week again
Speaker 1: on in case you missed it with Christina Williams. Appreciate
Speaker 1: your vulnerability and transparency when it came to just discussing
Speaker 1: the topics this week.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This was such a great
Speaker 2: conversation and I hope we get to work together more
Speaker 2: in the future.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, for sure, for sure, for sure
Speaker 1: we're want to take a quick little break and hear
Speaker 1: a word from some of our sponsors. I just want
Speaker 1: to thank my girl Natalie again for joining us this
Speaker 1: week to break down the latest and greatest headlines in
Speaker 1: women's basketball. And now let's get into the things that
Speaker 1: I love. This week, I attended a party for the
Speaker 1: Players Tribune's ten year anniversary and a tenure anniversary party
Speaker 1: mixed with the book release for Derek Jeter. So it
Speaker 1: was literally the first time that I've ever met Derek
Speaker 1: Jeter in my life. And I'm a native New Yorker,
Speaker 1: grew up a Yankees fan, Sorrey Mets fans. But it
Speaker 1: was pretty dope to just be in that room and
Speaker 1: just to see, you know, different NBA players, influencers within
Speaker 1: the NBA in WNBA space of just be in a
Speaker 1: room and just celebrate the art of storytelling. But also
Speaker 1: another thing that I absolutely loved this week was being
Speaker 1: at that Links Liberty game at Barclay Center. There was
Speaker 1: an activation at Barclay Center that really stood out to me.
Speaker 1: The New York Liberty did a activation with Killan Paris,
Speaker 1: which is a high end luxury beauty brand, and your
Speaker 1: girl went home with some swag they gifted us with
Speaker 1: some perfumes, and I went home with a scent that
Speaker 1: I was told Rihanna loved. It was the love Don't
Speaker 1: Be Shy perfume. And this is obviously not an ad
Speaker 1: for killing Paris, but I heard Rihanna loves that sent
Speaker 1: and you gent home with some of that and the
Speaker 1: swag bag. So I love gifts, and so I thought
Speaker 1: that it was perfect to see, you know, the air
Speaker 1: section of fashion and beauty with women's basketball as a
Speaker 1: live activation at a basketball game, certainly something I have
Speaker 1: never seen in the women's basketball space. So I love that,
Speaker 1: you know, the team marketing departments and you know partnerships
Speaker 1: departments are just stepping it up on every level when
Speaker 1: it comes to game day entertainment presentation and just thinking
Speaker 1: about different demographics of customers and finding new entry points
Speaker 1: for fans. So I thought it was dope. I just
Speaker 1: got to see Ellie in her beauty era right now.
Speaker 1: She was doing segments as well at that activation. But
Speaker 1: your girl loves fashion and beauty. I actually started off
Speaker 1: as a fashion reporter before I got into the sports
Speaker 1: reporting world, so that was fun and I love me
Speaker 1: a good cent to add to my collection. So that
Speaker 1: is the thing that I love this week, and that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it this week for In Case you missed
Speaker 1: It with Christina Williams. Look, please don't forget to rate, review,
Speaker 1: and subscribe to the podcast. And coming up next week,
Speaker 1: we're going to kick off the WNBA playoffs with a
Speaker 1: special preview featuring some friends to the show. We'll see
Speaker 1: you back here next week on In Case You Missed
Speaker 1: It with Christina Williams on iHeartRadio. In Case You Missed
Speaker 1: It with Christina Williams is an iHeart women's sports production
Speaker 1: in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can
Speaker 1: find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Eight six