WEBVTT - Occulture, William S. Burroughs, and Generative AI 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:13.760 Cools Media. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.320 Tricker treader. I heard, ah, hello, welcome to it could 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:23.360 happen here the Spooky Special. I'm your host, Garrison Davis. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.240 Once again, there has been far too many important world 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.160 events taking precedents that we here at the show are 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.840 unable to provide listeners with an entire spooky week's worth 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:40.000 of themed episodes. But I know how important Halloween is 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.320 for many millennials, so I've taken it upon myself to 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:48.400 produce two spooky episodes to book and the Holiday, this 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.960 episode that you're listening to right now, as well as 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.920 another that will release Monday morning or Sunday night. As 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:01.000 the world is becoming an increasingly spooky, scary play, I 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.600 needed to up the ante to exceed the weird and 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.520 eerie fright that comes from living in America and the 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.880 world in general in twenty twenty five. So last week 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.320 I traveled from New York to Brussels, briefly caught up 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.520 with my close personal friend and colleague Hinton, and then 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:25.440 took the train to Germany. Very scary indeed, once in Germany, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:30.440 I was confronted with seemingly occult words and symbols people 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.480 spoke in odd incantations. I came across a map that 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:39.000 appeared via my black scrying mirror the iPhone, which, upon deciphering, 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.040 led me to an old power plant warehouse in East Berlin. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.000 I entered this dark, looming building and inside the air 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.000 was thick with smoke and incense. Figures dressed in all 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:57.040 black emerged from the fog, witches, wizards, and magicians. I 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.560 followed them into a candlelit room where hooded A cultists 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.400 conducted a ritual welcoming us to the twenty twenty five 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:10.320 A Culture Conference. A Culture is a bi yearly conference 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.800 that's once every two years, focusing on the intersection of 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:19.640 occultism and culture, pop or otherwise. This is arguably the 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.200 most prestigious occultism conference in the world. I have been 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.040 wanting to attend four years, and I was finally able 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.760 to go this go round on the condition that I 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:35.040 make four podcast episodes. The two that I'm releasing this 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.800 week and next will cover some of the core magical 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.760 and topical currents throughout the conference, mostly via a panel 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:48.639 discussion between myself and three other attendees, and then before Christmas, 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.360 I'll have two fully scripted episodes interrogating these concepts further 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.240 and discussing the use of a cult practice in twenty 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.640 twenty five. So to start, let's meet our panel lists. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:06.840 I should introduce my magical travel team for this conference. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:13.720 Let's start with Delta, a Belgian magician and artist which 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.680 I recruited to join me in this wacky adventure. Delta 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:22.160 say hi, Hello, what do you do Delta? What's your 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:23.320 magical specialty? 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.960 I suppose, Well, it's kind of. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:27.200 A mix into the microphone. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.399 It's kind of a mix of things where. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.480 Part of it is just into the microphone. I'm sorry, 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:36.680 how you can you can you can get you can 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:37.520 get ptty close to it? 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:37.920 Okay. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.680 It's a kind of a mix of things really between 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:48.200 conventional chaos magic and more theoretical like weird theory stuff 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.360 like Mark Fisher and the CCRU adjacent things. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:59.880 We talk a lot about Mark Fisher, some landstuff, meta fiction, theory, fiction, hyperstition, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.440 and Delta myself talk about magic through the Internet quite 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.400 a bit and how it combines with cultural theory, which 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:12.000 is relevant to this conference. Let's move over to my left. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.400 I've been recruited along on this magical journey. I'm Ryan. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:21.120 I practiced the Vajrana, a Greco Egyptian magical practice, and 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:27.280 also am involved in a Haitian voodoo house. Prior to that, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.359 I was also an academic for a good period of 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.120 time where I studied Renaissance rhetoric and political theory, philosophy 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.320 and economics. So my contributions are going to be wide 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:37.800 and varied. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.720 We've been making a lot of hegel jokes this weekend, 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.640 so many hegel jokes to our last crew member, which 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.479 people may have heard before on various shows. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.560 Hi'm my name is Elaine, and I make art and 0:04:54.839 --> 0:05:00.120 research a lot of Renaissance script mark magic, and so 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.160 most of the things I do are a lot of 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:08.440 idiosyncratic practices and based on various folk magic and chaos 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.480 magic and Balcan folk magic. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:15.240 Before we continue the conversation between myself and my three guests, 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.320 let's start by discussing the word a culture, the namesake 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.000 of the conference. Obviously, this is a combination of the 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:28.680 word occult and culture, and it describes how the two 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:33.600 influence and possibly undermine one another. To read a quote 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:38.080 from the person who originated the term quote, a culture 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.400 is a word that was inevitable during the hyperactive phase 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.200 of the Temple of Psychic Youth. In the nineteen eighties, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.440 we were casting around for an all embracing term to 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:54.200 describe an approach to combining a unique, demystified spiritual philosophy 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.440 with a fervent insistence that all life and art are indivisible. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.480 At any given our sensory environment is whispering to us, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:08.000 telling us hidden stories, revealing subliminal connections. This concealed dialogue 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.520 between every level of popular cultural forms and magical conclusions 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:18.320 is what we named a culture that is from Genesis. B. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:24.920 Purreage a musician, magician, artist, cult leader, and hashtag slightly 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.760 problematic queer icon. In the seventies, they started the band 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:33.440 Throbbing Gristle, pioneered industrial music, and later started the Chaos 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.800 magic organization, the Temple of Psychic Youth and its associated 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.400 band Psychic TV. Though a culture did not just describe 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.520 this sort of personal spiritual movement, it carried a strong 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:52.159 offensive element targeted against society and perceived systems of control 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.840 through their many projects, including Throbbing Gristle Psychic TV. In 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.640 the Temple of Psychic Youth, Purage utilized art and magical 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:04.640 practice to conduct a quote unquote war on culture. Similar 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.719 to another figure that will soon get to william S Burrows, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:13.920 a culture describes a process of cultural osmosis. The occult 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.360 bleeds into and morph's culture, affecting everything from pop culture 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.280 to politics and philosophy. But as a part of this osmosis, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:30.240 the occult becomes increasingly commodified, knowable, safe, territory, marketable. The 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.960 hidden occult loses its very essence of being hidden despite 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.280 its use as a tool of attack against mainstream culture. 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.720 Like most countercultural forms, the occult has been largely recuperated. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:50.360 Even creative works which are genuine explorations into the occult 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:56.840 fall into this recuperation herodigm They get turned into products 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.920 consumed by a mostly secular audience, the works of Dueling wizards, 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.640 Alan Moore and Grant Morrison. Now, some occultists rejoice, knowing 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.280 that this wide exposure will influence more people to become 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.640 interested in or adopt occult practices of their own, while 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:19.880 others bemoan this dilution and commodification of what to them 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:24.240 is an important spiritual practice. As the modern occult revival, 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:29.240 along with a heavy helping hand of scientific advancement, deterritorialized 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:34.880 Christian hegemonic religion. Now the occult itself has been re territorialized, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.200 which is not to say that the occult is no 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.160 longer a field of play, which is what this conference 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.920 attempts to assert. Let's go back to the panel. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.120 In terms of the conference itself, as we'll get into later, 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:54.520 the term a culture very specifically seems to be focused 0:08:54.559 --> 0:09:00.840 on the study of the interrelation of magical practic and 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:05.840 the material aspects of a cult culture and its influence 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:11.439 and appropriation by wider society. So in terms of political 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.920 projects or social projects, you can probably relate this. I 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:16.439 think that it would be fair to say that it's 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.760 something like culture jamming if we're looking for some familiar 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.920 concepts for people to map onto. That is to say, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.920 a focus away from simply solitary practice in the ways 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:31.200 in which occult elements influence broader aspects of our society 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:36.080 or are appropriated, whether that's through consumerist forces or through 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.880 various artistic practices, or even the production of for example, film, 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.800 television movies. So I think that's a fair assessment of 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:46.760 the impacts of a culture. 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.240 And relevant to our discussion later. It's influenced in the 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.400 tech sector and the emergence of AI, which the current 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.640 manifestation of has some heavily occult origins regarding around a 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.880 whole bunch of people in the nineties who were writing 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.320 about AI as this as this occult project, and that 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:08.640 influenced many a AI engineer and coder who are now 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.920 building this stuff and it's becoming an ever present part 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.440 of our lives, and the occultists now are trying to 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.120 incorporate it into their own practice, which we will discuss 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.880 in a sect any other notes on a culture as 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:25.199 a concept or what this conference is doing with the concept. 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.960 I think a culture is a concept is something that's 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.800 basically been around as long as there's been magical practices, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.480 just looking at so much of things, like you know, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.360 the concept of the British Empire being invented by John 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.960 d because of conversations he was having with angels. So 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:48.679 I think that naming it and calling it something is 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.400 also very much felt like an attempt to sort of 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:58.240 regain control over the ways that magical practice and greater 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.040 society seemed to influence each other there as opposed to 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.800 a more unintentional way that they have been going back 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.319 and forth for hundreds if not thousands of years. 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.560 There may also be one other aspect that's important for 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.320 our American audiences. Given that we're recording this in Deutscheland, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:24.839 this conference varies significantly from other American equivalents, or something 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.400 that might be an American equivalent formerly Panthea Con in 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.080 and around San Francisco and San Jose specifically, or Paganicon 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.040 in the Twin Cities, which specifically has much more of 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:41.880 a New Age neopagan reconstructionist And so most academic discussion 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:46.439 is viewed with some suspicion. And I'm hesitant to say 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.600 that there's an anti intellectual trend because I don't necessarily 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.320 think that's true. However, there is a resistance to the 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.000 kind of academic styling that we saw very prevalent at 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.040 this conference to talk about the occult, but more generally 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.520 as an area of study in addition to just idiosyncratic 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:09.960 practice or part of a larger social neopagan movement, which 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.319 is again very much the focus of most US based conferences. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:19.920 As an editorial note, when we're talking about magic, to clarify, 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:24.000 we're not talking about stage magicians. We're referring to magic 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.800 with a K that is rituals and practices based on 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:32.959 occult knowledge. It seeks to cause change in accordance with will, 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:37.480 whether that's change within yourself or in our consensus reality. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.720 Occult magical practice can also serve as a form of spirituality, mysticism, 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.600 an alternative religious practice, or an alternative to religion, with 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:52.480 its beliefs in practice largely influenced by historical esoteric orders, 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:58.559 mystery traditions, paganism, witchcraft, herbalism, astrology, hermetic philosophy, and alchemy, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.120 and all these things are influences. I'm not saying that 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.839 the actual historic manifestations of these things are the same 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.240 as the modern occult practices that are influenced by these things, 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.880 because often these can be wildly varying, especially when you 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.400 talk about things like witchcraft and alchemy, which have been 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:22.280 misinterpreted or reconstructed into completely new forms than what the 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.520 historical manifestation of them actually contained. But a lot of 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.800 modern day ocultism has manifested as an individually mediated spirituality 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.720 containing some of the group ritual or ritual aspects of 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:41.559 something like Catholicism, but with the individuality of Protestantism. Many 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.480 conferences have an opening ceremony and as I previously mentioned, 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.800 A Culture had an opening ritual. This accomplishes a very 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.720 similar goal to any opening ceremony, to get attendees in 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.200 a certain headspace, to prepare them for the rest of 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.920 the conference, and set a certain mood in which the 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.840 the rest of the events will kind of follow suit. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:09.240 The A Culture opening ritual called upon the attendees demiurgic capacity, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.480 how they are part of creating the reality of what 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.920 this conference is and how it will continue for the 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.080 next few days. Back to the panel, The framing of 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.240 the ritual was a blindfolded woman holding the scales of balance, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.240 and each person put a intention for the week, or 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.600 for the conference, or for themselves into a stone, which 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.920 was handed out to each person who entered the ritual, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.160 and at certain point these stones were placed on to 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.560 the scales of balance to create an equilibrium between the 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.920 two sides of the scale. Along with the you know, chanting, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.000 meditation and a lot of incense. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.280 A significant deal of incense given that we were in 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:57.520 a former German forge warehouse. The you know, billowing smoke 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.800 that existed throughout the conference, from fires to incense to 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.400 various other inflammatory items was rather impressive, but in terms 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:10.040 of actual ritual design, it met several elements that I 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.040 found to be rather impressive. One it was encompassing of 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.960 all of those elements that we would later expect to 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.040 see in the actual body of the conference itself. In 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.240 terms of like the artistic performances, the musical you know, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.160 metal goth music that was played, but also a very 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.280 practical and open approach to ritual. It was highly inclusive. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.320 Everyone who was there participated. It did an exceptional job 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.360 I felt of actually bringing setting intention and adding to 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:42.960 I don't know, at risk of sounding to new age, 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.280 the vibrations that we all felt as we engaged and 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.400 were present. The theatrical quality, I have to say was 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.880 also very much dark and spooky. Dark and spooky, but 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.240 something to be admired. They did a very good job. 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.200 Definitely one of the more high effort rituals of the 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.520 weekend in terms of the sort of aspect, with there 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:06.280 being little less than a dozen hooded cloaked figures stationed 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.680 at different points, either holding specific positions in a meditative 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.920 state for probably over half an hour, standing still in 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.040 a decision that would become uncomfortable and swinging incense or 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:23.960 holding torches or lights. Setting intention specifically is usually you 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.920 talk to these people. The first step of any kind 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.120 of magical working is setting your intention for what the 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.080 work is supposed to do or accomplish in you or 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.960 out into the world. Mirroring the opening Ritual Culture twenty 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.440 twenty five little booklet has a few paragraphs on the 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:45.480 concept for this conference, talking about the cosmic craftsmen as 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.760 the demiir to shapes matter and spirit alike embodies creation 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:53.000 and transformation, revealing both the light and the hidden, the 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.360 shadowed face of the divine, as well as having cosmic 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:02.520 balance and balancing instruction with creation and order and chaos 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:08.000 and the hidden and the scene. The last paragraph in 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.360 which I will read I think relates specifically to this 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.720 show and the cultural political aspects quote. In the age 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.440 of relentless acceleration, the craftsman becomes a figure of resistance. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.600 His patience and ritual discipline reclaim sacred time, restoring a 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.880 rhythm beyond the acceleration of modern life. A Culture twenty 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.400 twenty five invites us to dwell in this threshold where creation, intuition, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:36.159 and the hidden divine converge, and with that we converge 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:51.200 on an outbreak, Welcome back to the it could Happen 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:56.400 here Spooky special on the Culture Conference. The figure name 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:01.040 dropped the most throughout this conference might surprise some people, 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:05.119 because I'm assuming most do not consider him to be 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.679 an occultist or really a serious occult figure. The most 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.879 discussed individual, at least in my experience of the conference, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:19.400 was not Alistair Crowley, John Dee, someone like Lena Blovatsky, 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.159 but in fact william S Burrows. And now we'll return 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:31.480 to the panel to discuss the Barosian current. Let's talk 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:37.760 about what I would argue was the strongest current throughout 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:43.920 this conference, what I'm gonna call the Burrosian current, relating 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:48.919 to writer, beat poet, and mystic and occultist in his 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.439 own right, william S Burrows and the magical technology that 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.520 he either invented or popularized in the second half of 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.119 the twentieth century and played a significant role in influencing 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.080 successor movements such as chaos magic and even the work 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.560 of the CCRU and Land and Fisher. The very first 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.840 talk that we attended was specifically on Burroughs, and Burroughs 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:17.280 ghost haunted the remainder of the conference thereafter and introduced 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.840 a few of the key tensions throughout the rest of 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.920 the conference, which we will discuss as specifically technology in AI. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.639 So our first talk by Castor Obstrop, who I believe 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.320 was Swedish one of those. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.720 He was working at the University of Copenhagen, the. 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.840 University of Copenhagen certainly Scandinavian of some flavor of variety, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.080 focused on William S. Burrows and Brian Geyson. I think 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.959 that it's important and I appreciated this claim on the 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.600 outset that they argued that both Geyson and Burroughs are 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:55.280 actually closer to the late Surrealists rather than to the 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.879 beat poets generation which we typically associate them with, which, 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.600 interestingly enough, I made both of these figures far more 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:07.200 compelling to me my understanding of them. I mean, despite 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.040 my familiarity with the cut up method, and you know, 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.359 several of the things that Burrows had written, I always 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.239 considered them far more beat and therefore less less of 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.159 interest to me specifically. But this proximity to the Surrealists, 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:24.520 especially the latter Surrealists, I found particularly compelling, and I 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.040 think that brings us to the real focus of this 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.320 talk was Burrows's cut up method and another book that 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.359 he published on the third Mind, which gave way to 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.080 the latter discussions on artificial intelligence and large language models. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:44.760 So Burrow's definitely popularized the cut up method which Guyson originated, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.080 that Burrows changed its different forms of manifestations to various 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.720 mediums of art like the tape recorder and his own 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.359 writings and just words and language. And I guess the 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:56.760 reason why I think talking about this current is important 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.560 to start is also revolves around this idea of magic 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.680 as this form of like resistance or this like a 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.240 culture jamming practice which Burrows framed his own work in 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.160 his like a you know, work that we could could 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.719 we could just describe as like esoteric or inspired by 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:18.000 esoterism or achieving esotericals is specifically for this cultural infusion 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:22.400 to to disrupt mainstream culture in some capacity, to go 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:26.200 against the one God universe, sometimes in an anarchic way, 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.720 sometimes in a libertarian way. Some there's a mix of 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.400 a mix of like uh motivations that play here same 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.720 thing with like Robert Anton Wilson, which I'm sure you've 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:40.040 heard Robert Evans talk about before. These were contemporaries, These 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:44.480 guys were friends and operating under like similar goals of 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:49.440 disrupting culture through these techniques which which they thought literally 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:54.080 like disrupted the linear flow of culture or the mechanisms 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:58.119 of control such as like language and linear time, which 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.040 later gets developed on by Land and Fissure. 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.919 Yeah. I think looking at some of my notes, some 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.439 of the things that stuck out to me, especially in 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.040 view of the fact that the other classes going on 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.679 at the time began with Alistair Crowley, but we're diving 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:18.480 into a lot of more classical and historical magical traditions, 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.040 was that language can shape reality, which is something that 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:24.639 would also be held up by a lot of the 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:29.919 classical magical ideas that sound and image have occult power, 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.120 which is very true in a lot of magical traditions 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:37.560 dating back to the Piatrix and more ancient texts, and 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.600 that tech available at the time can be a magical instrument, 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:46.320 which the tech available currently and for William Burrows is 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:51.000 very different than classical tech, but is something that has 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.800 been done for a very long time as well. What 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:57.720 really changes is stepping out of the idea of a 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.439 linear representation of it into something that could be edited, 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:07.760 cut and reprogrammed, specifically using technology that allowed that as 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:12.040 opposed to something that you're trying to control solely through 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:16.560 say more spiritual magical acts. It's something that you can 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:17.399 do with a tape recording. 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.399 And this is like, you know, based on forms like 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.800 social engineering and the manipulation of the reproduction of reality, 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.960 which Burrows believes a language plays a key role in, 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.200 even though I might disagree with him in a few 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.200 ways on like the nature of like a language as 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.280 a as a human concept versus this like alien concept 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:39.240 which it's like infected the human delta. You should explain 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.359 what the cut up method is. 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:47.400 Yes, well the name itself kind of is self explanatory, 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:52.400 but the idea of being essentially too thick any form 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.360 of texts or writing, cut up the words or pieces 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.560 of sentences, jumble limup in a hat or a bucket 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.960 or whatever, then kind of like play a jigsaw puzzle 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:10.160 with language, reshifting sentences into new ideas and new forms 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:14.080 of poetry, especially which I'm just looking at my own 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:15.960 cutups right in front of me. 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:20.480 To force like randomized combinations of words that you would 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.480 not choose to combine on your own volition, and seeing 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.280 what sort of thought that generates what kind of meaning 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:28.560 can be constructed through that combination. 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:31.679 Exactly, we're on some of the first cutups done with 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:35.320 books and just making holes, cutting out words and seeing 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:37.840 the other words that would appear underneath, and if new 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:43.280 meaning would arise through the surprise combinations. 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:45.760 Words from like the future or the past presenting themselves 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:48.160 into a current present within the book. 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:48.600 Yeah. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:50.879 I think one of the Borough's quotes is when you 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.440 cut into the present, the future leaks out, which. 0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:55.399 Is related to the concept of time sorcery that was 0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:58.360 talked about towards the end of that discussion. I think 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:01.439 another element to the cutup mesas that's important, especially as 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.200 it was framed in this a culture context is as 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.960 the we quoted from the or as I wrote this 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.120 quote down from the actual lecture itself, reality is made 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:16.320 of words, images and vibrations, and sounds and images have 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:21.480 occult power, and therefore these sounds and images and words 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:27.119 can be marshaled or used, edited, cut through, rearranged for 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.560 the purposes of reprogramming. It's fascinating. I think that this 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:36.400 really is something that carries through to the whole conference, 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:40.760 and not just the Burrow's method, but what this Burrow's 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:45.439 method or the Barossian current of the conference. It seems 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:48.479 that there was a problematic I mean, we started basically 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.119 with dari Da and we ended with dari Da with 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.119 discussions of like critiques of the master narrative that we 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:57.320 get from you know, Deluze and Leotard and Baudriard and 0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:01.240 these people. But the goal of this method was to 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:05.240 rewrite the master narrative. So again back to that concept 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:09.280 of culture jamming. As Gerre said, this concept of the 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:12.919 one God universe, this cut up method is meant to 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:19.119 interrupt the linearity of words of language, that is a 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:25.000 process of control. So I take issue with this concept 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.000 of language as a virus because that implies that it's 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:31.600 a foreign body, and I mean it's true post structuralists. 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:33.640 I guess that I am. There is no outside to language, 0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:35.840 and I think that that's actually something that shines through 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:38.720 in this third mind concept. 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:42.919 As two people work together on something, there's a composite 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:47.119 mind that like emerges and affects the work. Is the 0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:47.800 concept there. 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.520 So when two people collaborate, a third mind or intelligence 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:56.480 communicates with you through the revelation of the new that 0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.920 was already present. And I think that that's really important 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.280 to point out because it's it's not as though there's 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.960 this this outside thing. The implication is from this method 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:11.040