1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And last time on Stuff I've Never 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: Told You, we talked about the history of panties or knickers, 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: depending on where you live, and today we're really excited 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: to talk to a panty entrepreneur. That's right, we are 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: talking to Julie Siegel today. She's the founder of dear 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: Kate and they specialize in some pretty special undergarments as 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: well as yoga pants. We can't forget the yoga pants, 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: that's right. Dear Kate started out, as we'll learn more 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: about from Julie, as a new kind of period underwear 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: for women, because for anyone listening who has a period, 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: we probably have all ruined so many pairs of under 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: aware because, let's face it, run in the middle underwear 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: is usually not designed to handle menstruation, which gave Julie 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: a brilliant idea well, so it helped for sure that 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: Julie herself has a background in a stem field, not 18 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: to mention business, so when she had to tackle this 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: issue of, like you said, regular underpants not being able 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: to handle our bodily functions as women. She was able 21 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: to combine her great business acumen with her scientific background 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: and create a brand new type of product for women 23 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: who you know, have regular body functions. That's right, Yeah, 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: periods in addition to things like urinarian continence, pelvic organ 25 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: pro lapse, yeast infections, cervical fluid, all things that we've 26 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: talked about on stuff Mom never told you. So we 27 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: hope that you enjoyed this conversation that we had with 28 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: Julie about Dear Kates as well as period underwear, feminism, 29 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: and what it's like to be an entrepreneur these days. Well, Julie, 30 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: first of all, thanks so much for joining us on 31 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: the podcast. Um, for our listeners, could you just introduce 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: yourself and who you are and what you do? Absolutely? Um. So, 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: I'm Julie Siegel and I'm the founder of Dear Kate, 34 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: And so Dear Kate is I start up and we 35 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: make a line of performance underwear, and more recently, we 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: just added yoga pants to our line, so we're super 37 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: pumped about that. Um. But the special thing about both 38 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: the underwear and the yoga pants is that they both 39 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: have our patent pending fabric lining in them, so it 40 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: is way better than your regular type of underwear or 41 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: pants because it has the special fabric in it. UM. 42 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: And I actually studied a chemical engineering in college, so 43 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: I got to help out in terms of like leading 44 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: the development of creating the fabric UM. So the inner 45 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: lining is actually moisture wicking and stain releasing, and then 46 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: the outer layer UM is protective and link resistant. So 47 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: basically it started in an entrepreneurship class and UM and 48 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: so we were like, you know, men's bodies and women's 49 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: bodies work differently, how come no one's making better underwear 50 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: for women? UM, So we came up with the idea 51 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: to make like the Wonder Woman pair of underwear that 52 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: you can wear during your period and be totally prepared 53 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: for anything. Well, Julie, what what inspired you to make 54 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: that switch from your earlier plans of working in marketing 55 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: for a pharmaceutical company or perhaps the chemical engineer in 56 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: the food industry to becoming a lingerie entrepreneur instead? Um? Yeah, 57 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: you know what. I was looking back at that interview 58 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: that I did UM when I was a freshman in college, 59 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, wait, really, I said, I wanted 60 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: to do marketing for fun nautical company. I like, what 61 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: was I thinking? Like, I clearly didn't know myself then, Um, 62 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: but you were eighteen. Don't we all know ourselves when 63 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: we're when we're president Colley. Yeah, it's funny because I 64 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: was good at math and science in high school and 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 1: so my mom said you should be a chemical engineer. 66 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: They make a boatload of money. And UM. I was 67 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: like great, Um, that's that sounds good. UM. So I 68 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: majored in chemical engineering and and sort of like all 69 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: through my four years, I was like, Okay, what do 70 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: I do with this major? And so I had so 71 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: many different ideas, and you know, one of them was 72 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: creating new types of foods. I explored working like cosmetics industry. Um. 73 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: And then I was like, well, maybe I can go 74 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: into the marketing side for something that needs engineering, um, 75 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: like a pharmaceutical company for a brief time. Um. And 76 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't until I took my entrepreneurship class um in 77 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: my junior spring where I was like, oh my gosh, 78 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: Like I felt like our product would make women's lives easier. 79 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: And so you know, I talked about underwear seven that semester. 80 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: All my friends were like this is amazing. You know, 81 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: no one else is making this kind of underwear. I 82 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: really want some of this. UM. So that's when I 83 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: was like, I want to do this for real, and 84 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: I can actually use my engineering degree doing something that 85 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: I really believe in. And that's such a fantastic example 86 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: too of how a STEM career can lead to something 87 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: that we probably wouldn't typically think of as a STEM career. UM. 88 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: But I also, in addition to um STEM, I also 89 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: wanted to ask about feminism because you've talked UM about 90 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: feminism and some interviews and how you are a feminist. 91 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: So how does that inform your work not only at 92 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: the deer k office, but also in marketing and even 93 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: in the venture capital world. Absolutely, UM, I yeah, I 94 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: think like at my core, I'm a feminist. It's something 95 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: that I've grown up with because my dad was a 96 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: huge feminist and UM, he actually stayed home and took 97 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: care of me when I was younger, and my mom 98 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: was the one who Um, she was a lawyer and 99 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: so she made the money. UM. And so I've always 100 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: seen from an early age, like the the fact that 101 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: my parents were role models of doing things non traditionally UM. 102 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: And so He very much always instilled in me that, um, 103 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, I can do anything as well as men 104 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: can do it. Um. And you know, he would sometimes 105 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: go the other way and he's like, you can do 106 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: it better, and I'm like, well, wait a second, UM, 107 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: we're just trying to get to equality here. But it's 108 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: really something that nowadays when I see marketing or advertising 109 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: or situations that are non equal between men and women, UM, 110 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: because it's been so ingrained me from a young age, 111 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: I feel like it jumps out and it looks weird 112 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: and it feels weird, and it makes me feel uncomfortable. Um. 113 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: Whereas you know, a feminism isn't a concept that you're 114 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: super familiar with. It just feels like regular society, like normal, um, 115 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: the status quo. And so I think that I've been 116 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: able to these situations from a lens of saying like 117 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: this doesn't feel equal to me, and what can we 118 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: do um to to strive towards equality for for men 119 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: and women, so that at the end of the day, 120 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're all humans. At the office, we do 121 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: talk a lot about feminism and you know, men and 122 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: women's roles in society and how that's evolving and how 123 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: we can push that conversation forward, and what we do 124 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: and what we produce, how that adds to the conversation. 125 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: So about a year ago, we decided to name each 126 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: of our underwear collections after a woman in history, and 127 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: then we decided to feature women as our models, who 128 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: we admire because of who they are and what they 129 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: do and not only how they look. UM. So there's 130 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: usually some correlation between the person that we name the 131 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: collection after and then who our models are. So um. 132 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: For example, we named the LA collection after Ella Fitzgerald, 133 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: and then our model was Mary Beth Duran, who is 134 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: an independent musician. UM. So we feed agraph to her 135 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: singing in the studio in her underwear and recording things. 136 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: And it's it's like a breath of fresh air when 137 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: you see a lingerie campaign when there's a woman who's 138 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: not just standing there looking sexy with her mouth half open, 139 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, like looking for approval from someone else, or 140 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: like she's not quite sure what she's doing. Um. Because 141 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: that's what we were seeing with all of these other 142 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: lingerie companies, and we were talking about in the off 143 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: is and I was like, you know, that's not aspirational 144 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: to me. Um, you know, I aspire to be someone 145 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: who's a mover and a shaker and a doer, and 146 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: he was really happy and confident, and so we decided 147 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: as much as possible to photograph our models doing things 148 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: that they love. UM. So we love the photoshoot of 149 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: Mary bath Um singing in our underwear and just having 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: a good time, and so we have done that with 151 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of collections. Now we've had a florist who 152 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: owns her own UM floral boutique. We have athletes, and 153 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: then recently we did the Aida campaign, which was our 154 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: collection named after Ada Lovelace, the world's first computer programmer. UM. 155 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: And so for that campaign, we actually invited six women 156 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: to model for us who worked in tech and so 157 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: that was super fun because it was a chance for 158 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: us to showcase women who we admire because of what 159 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: they do. UM. And it's one of those things where like, 160 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how to code, but I very much 161 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: appreciate that there are women who are experts at that 162 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: because I want someone of my gender represented at the table, 163 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, when decisions are being made or actual systems 164 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: are being designed. It's so important for us to have 165 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: to have women there. And like when you think about it, 166 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: everything in our world is going digital, and so we 167 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: desperately want females to be a part of that and 168 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: a part of shaping how that's all implemented. And then 169 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to raising money for our company, you know, 170 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: I've pitched so many different investors and talked to a 171 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: lot of different people. And one thing that I love 172 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: about our investors is, you know, they not only share 173 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: our goal of making money, but um, you know, equally 174 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: as importantly is pushing the envelope and pushing the agenda 175 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: forward UM for women. And so one thing that I 176 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: love about about having this greater mission besides making money 177 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: is how we're trying to be a role model for 178 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: other companies and and so you know, I think a 179 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: lot of apparel companies show their models portrayed in these 180 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: somewhat disempowering poses or um situations, and because they think 181 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: that that's what sells. And so if we're able to 182 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: show the opposite and show that actually women in Laingree 183 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: can be super smart and super empowered and that there's 184 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: so much more to women than just how we look 185 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: and be successful doing that, then that's kind of an 186 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: incentive for all of these companies that even if they're 187 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: just focused on making money, they could change the way 188 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: that they portrayed their models. Well. In speaking of models 189 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: and marketing, UM, we have to talk about the controversy 190 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: the deer Kate attracted during its campaign for the at 191 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: a collection which included, um, a photo spread with women 192 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: in tech, including past stuff I've never told you, guess 193 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: Audiburner of skill Crush, and it featured these women in 194 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: their underwear, and I mean much of the media coverage 195 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: focused on it's possible repercussions for women in tech, saying, oh, well, 196 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: these women want respecting the industry, why are they posing 197 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: in their underwear? And I mean that's kind of all 198 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: the conversation was focused on. And you had such a 199 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: great response to that, And I was also wondering what 200 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: you think it says more broadly about women body policing 201 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: and just this constant sexualization of the female body, whether 202 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: we are doing our work or not. Yeah, we were 203 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: getting shocked that it got so much press and so 204 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: much discussion, UM, because to us, it was an extension 205 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: of what we've done for months now in terms of 206 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: featuring non traditional models. UM. And you know, I know 207 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: that women attack is kind of a hot button subject 208 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: and there is a lot of discussion about it. UM 209 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: for good reason, because, UM, you know there are issues 210 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: with um sexism towards women in tech. UM. But I 211 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: didn't really expect so many people waving their hands and saying, WHOA, 212 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: this is crazy, UM, saying like I can't believe these 213 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: women would do this to pose in their underwear. I mean, 214 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: after everything that we're fighting for for women, UM, then 215 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: these men see these women in their underwear, and now 216 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: they're not going to take them seriously. They're not going 217 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: to take any women in tech seriously anymore. And to me, 218 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: that was just so such an on issue because if 219 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: you think about it, you know, what does that say 220 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: about our society. It's saying that, you know, we are 221 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: totally okay and perfectly fine with professional models being seen 222 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: in their underwear. UM. Nobody raised an eyebrow when we 223 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: featured athletes in their underwear, or a florist or a singer. UM. 224 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: But all of a sudden, when we featured women who 225 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: work in tech in their underwear, people got their panties 226 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: all on a bunch. Excuse the passing, UM, because they're 227 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: saying women in tech can't do that, and that women 228 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: tech have to address a certain way, they have to 229 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: behave a certain way in order to be taken seriously. Um. 230 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: But but in my mind, you know, women should be 231 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: taken seriously regardless of what they do and of what 232 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: we're wearing. Um. So, you know, what I'm wearing or 233 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: what somebody who works in tech is wearing has absolutely 234 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: zero reflection on their intelligence, their capability to do a 235 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: great job, um, you know, to create an innovative product. 236 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: And so I think it's really sad to think that 237 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: women are expected to censor what we wear and what 238 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: we do for fear of how that will cause men 239 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: to think about us. You know, I think if that's 240 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: actually what someone is saying, then we need to examine 241 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: that and look at how can we help these men 242 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: to see women as more than just objects and more 243 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: than just how they look, because that then that's that's 244 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: a bigger problem, or or more of a problem than um, 245 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: how women are behaving. So it brought up a lot 246 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: of interesting conversations that we didn't necessarily foresee. Um But 247 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I think it was 248 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, we I loved a lot of the comments 249 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: and responses that we got positive comments as well, um 250 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: from a lot of people and our models who are 251 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: just wonderful and in commenting on it, and Auta in 252 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: particularly gave a bunch of great interviews and talking about 253 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: how listen people need to be comfortable, um with with 254 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: the notion that women are multifaceted, where complex, we're in 255 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: depth people, um, and we shouldn't be you know, boxed 256 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: into behaving a certain way or be defined, um by 257 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: our profession. And I also loved your response on Twitter 258 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: with the hashtag not controversial, which was just such a 259 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: perfect and sustinct way to diffuse it because it's like, oh, yeah, 260 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: that's really not controversial, nor should it be. Yeah no, 261 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: And um, one of my friends called me and she 262 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: was like, this is ridiculous. Like two days after the 263 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: Time magazine or Time online our article came out that 264 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: called the campaign controversial, and she was like, this is ridiculous. 265 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: Like I'm going to post a selfie of myself working 266 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: in my underwear and like hashtag it not controversial, like this, 267 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: I cannot stand this. And so she said that, and 268 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: then I was talking to other friends. They were like, 269 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm gonna do it too, and so 270 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: it became those larger movement. Um. So of course I've 271 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: posed in my underwear as well and hashtag and not controversial. Um. 272 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: So that was really fun to see so many women 273 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: who not only said that they supported us, but actually 274 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: posted selfies and underwear saying this is not a big deal. Well, 275 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: then that leads us to your response to the Victoria's 276 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: Secret Perfect Body campaign. And I'm interested in the response 277 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: that you received to this too, because this campaign featured 278 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: real world women with diverse bodies in their underwear as well. 279 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: So what was the thinking behind the response to the 280 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret campaign, which featured of course Victoria's Secret models 281 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: in their underwear with the banner perfect body, right, Um, yeah, 282 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: it's it's It's interesting because we heard about the Victoria's 283 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: Secret Perfect Body campaign, saw the photo, we talked about 284 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: it in the office, and within like two hours we 285 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 1: were like, we have to we have to produce an 286 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: alternative to this. Um, because I think it's sad that 287 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: we oftentimes see photos like that, the one like the 288 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: one that Victoria's Secret produced all the time, and because 289 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: they don't usually say the perfect body on top, we 290 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: just take it for granted, you know, and no one 291 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: thinks twice about it. But this time they took it 292 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: too far. I know that it was referencing the body 293 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: bra and not these women's actual physical boys. But you know, 294 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: that's a new one that no one's going to get 295 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: at the very first glance. You have to glance at 296 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: it twice to really see that. UM. So we feel 297 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable with that message that it was sending and 298 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: thinking about it unless we unless we were provided with 299 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: other options. UM, it's it's sometimes not as jarring or 300 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: like not as um obvious how strong that message is. 301 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: And so by producing an alternative where they could be 302 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: juxtaposed side by side, UM, I think it made it 303 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: all the more clear, and um drove home the point 304 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: that there are so many different bodies, UM, and everybody 305 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: is valid and you know, worthwhile. So so that was 306 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: a really fun and very spontaneous campaign that we literally did. 307 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: We put together in like a day and a half 308 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: or two days and shot it, produced it, you know, 309 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: send an email out to hundreds of my friends and 310 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: just said, hey, like we want to provide a response 311 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: to this UM and and do you want to be 312 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: part of it? So we had ten women who were 313 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: as diverse as possible given a short turnaround time, I 314 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: recognized that, um, you can always do more to show university. 315 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: So so in general, the response was very positive to 316 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: the photo. We posted it on Facebook and didn't pay 317 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: to promote it or anything, so in terms of organic 318 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: share us on Facebook, it actually reached over one point 319 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: one million people and was shared I think it is 320 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: almost ten thousands, like nine thousand seven or eight hundred times, 321 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: just blew us away. So it was good, it was fun, 322 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 1: and I would say that the response was almost all positive. 323 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: You know, you're always gonna have some haters who say, oh, 324 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: like you know these bodies of various shapes and sizes, um, 325 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: the women are too obies or whatever. And then or 326 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: you have people who say, well, what about skinny people? 327 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: You know you're skinny shaming, and it's like, well, we 328 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: have a size two in there, and you know, we're 329 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: not saying that there's anything wrong with banks skinny. We're 330 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: saying love everyone, and and it's been it's been a 331 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: good brand exposure. UM. But I felt like I felt 332 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: really good doing it because we try to be as 333 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: inclusive as possible. UM, so I felt like we would 334 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: really you know, walk the walk in terms of like 335 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: a lot of other laundrie companies, they wouldn't be able 336 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: to post a response picture because they've traditionally, even if 337 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: they're not doing it as egregiously as Victoria's Secret is, 338 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: they traditionally only featured like super skinny white women, And 339 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: so we go out of our way to provide more diversity, 340 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: with the caveat that nothing is perfect and probably at 341 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: any point you can always add even more. UM. But 342 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: I felt like it's a nod to our intentions and 343 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: what we try to do and what we have done 344 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: in the past. So now, Julie, that we've talked about 345 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: the importance of body diversity and ad campaigns and your 346 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: own campaign featuring a diverse range of bodies, what how 347 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: do you think it is to provide products for a 348 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: wide range of bodies and how did you guys come 349 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: to do that at Dear Kate. Sure, Yeah, it's a 350 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: really it's a really good question, um, and something that 351 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: I find very interesting and perplexing. Actually, how segregated the 352 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: UM plus size clothing market is from smaller sizes. UM. 353 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: We called them miss ease sizes, and you know, When 354 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: we first started, we were super small, and so we 355 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: only offered I think the size extra small through extra large, 356 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: and so for us, we thought that was a big 357 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: size range UM and you know, have limited funds in 358 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: the beginning to produce inventory and UM. To be honest, 359 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: I was kind of intimidated by the notion of creating 360 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: a plus size line UM or adding those sizes, because 361 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't as simple as just scaling our patterns and 362 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: making them bigger UM. But we needed to actually create 363 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: new patterns because it's very important to me that we 364 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: we have a really good fit and so so UM 365 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: we would have to work with a pattern maker to 366 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 1: have a separate UM fit model who would try everything 367 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: on and actually create new patterns for size one accent 368 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: above UM. So in the beginning, we just started out 369 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: with regular, extra small through extra large, and we had 370 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: a lot of requests from women who were larger saying, 371 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, I love your idea, I love your concept, 372 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: and I would like to wear your underwear. And so 373 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: about a year and a half ago, I guess we said, 374 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: you know what, there's so much demand and we want 375 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: to be able to offer a wetter range of sizes. 376 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: UM so let's do it. Let's let's see what we 377 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: can do. And so we spent a lot of time 378 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: and did a lot of fittings to make sure that 379 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: we felt confident in um, the fit of our of 380 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: our plus size line, and we actually call them Queen 381 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: sizes UM, which is not just for fun. Like our 382 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: pattern maker UM she was she called the patterns missy 383 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: patterns and Queen size patterns and I was like, Oh, 384 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: that's cute, and she was like, no, that's what they're 385 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: called in the industry. And I was like, oh my gosh, 386 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: I love that so much. UM, let's call it the 387 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: Queen's Size collection. So we stuck with that, UM. And 388 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's been really awesome since we since we 389 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: launched our larger sizes UM. They bring in a significant 390 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: amount of revenue and so UM, you know, from a 391 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: financial standpoint, it makes sense for us, in addition to 392 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: just the notion that we want to make our technology 393 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: and our underwear and our yoga pants available for as 394 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: many women as possible. UM. And I do know that, 395 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, we can't say we have garments for every 396 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: woman because there are women who fall um, you know, 397 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: above or below our current size ranch offerings UM that 398 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: it is important to us that we we do what 399 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: we can UM and we do what makes sense financially. UM. 400 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: So it's it's fun when you're able to find something 401 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: that aligns with your goals of providing UM as many 402 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: sizes as possible. But then also when you can tell 403 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: your investors, hey, actually this makes sense and we should 404 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: be listening to these customers, not just because it's the 405 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: right thing to you, but also because it's financially smart. Well, 406 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: speaking of investors and doing things because they are financially 407 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: wise and all of that. You are at you know, 408 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: a pretty young age is successful entrepreneur already. So what's 409 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: been the biggest challenge to you though as an entrepreneur 410 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: starting your own business and has being a female entrepreneur 411 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: post any particular challenges or advantages? That's a great question. 412 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: I mean, as an entrepreneur, there are so many challenges, like, 413 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: oh god, like, how can I picked just one? UM? 414 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: I think that sometimes I get annoyed because people are 415 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: always like, well, what's you know, what's the biggest hardest 416 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: thing about being or they always asked me do you 417 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: have advice for other female entrepreneurs? And I'm like, how 418 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,719 Speaker 1: about like, just do I have advice for entrepreneurs in general? UM, 419 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: because I first informast to give myself as an entrepreneur, 420 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: not a female entrepreneur UM. But yeah, I mean on 421 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: the flip side, there were definite challenges of pitching venture 422 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: capitalists UM, and we pitched more angel investors really so UM. 423 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: But been in front of a lot of different investors. 424 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: The majority of them are men. And you know, even 425 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: sometimes when UM, a male investor is saying this is 426 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: an amazing concept. I understand the concept, I understand the 427 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: product UM, but because it's not something that I would 428 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: be a customer as and something that I would wear, 429 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable UM investing. And to me it's like, 430 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, are they being sexist? I don't. I don't 431 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: think so. You know, they're not comfortable putting money into 432 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: something that they don't fully understand UM. So I can't 433 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: say that I blamed them, But at the same time 434 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: that that felt really difficult to to overcome because our 435 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: product is intrinsically UM female related, and so it was 436 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: very important to us to get in front of female 437 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: investors UM in order to raise the money that we needed. 438 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: And I mean in terms of the biggest challenges of 439 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: being an entrepreneur. Um, there's so many, there's so many 440 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: tangible things that that are challenges that I would say 441 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: for me personally, the biggest thing is just like trusting myself. UM. 442 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: And I think I've gave had a lot of confidence 443 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: over the years. I've been working on this business in 444 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: some form or another for about five or six years now, 445 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: and so I remember the beginning, you know, I would 446 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: meet with a lot of different people for advice, and 447 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: I would meet with someone on Monday and they would 448 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: say here's what you should do ABC and playing it 449 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: out for you. And then we meet with someone else 450 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: on Wednesday and they would say, you know what, Okay, 451 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: this is your road map to success. You do this 452 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: and this and this and that could be totally contradictory 453 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: to what the person told me on Monday, and just 454 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: because it was like the latest person who gave me advice, 455 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: I would be like, oh my god, totally you're right, 456 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: that's exactly what we're gonna do. And so I felt 457 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: myself just like bouncing around like a ping pong ball 458 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: um without having um real grounding to be able to 459 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: say like, no, I don't like that idea, like, I 460 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: don't think that's right. And so after having this experience 461 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: and UM, you know, being just like doing things and 462 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: seeing what works and seeing what doesn't on my own, UM, 463 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 1: it's been much easier for me to stand back and 464 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: take advice from people. UM. But then at the end 465 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: of the day, decide what I think and UM stay 466 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: true to that. And if someone tells me something, UM 467 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: in terms of advice, and you know, I don't like 468 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: it and I don't think it's the right thing to do, 469 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: then I'm able to say, you know what, no, I 470 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: don't think we should do that and not feel pressure 471 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: to um conform with what they say. And I think 472 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: to some degree that could be a very female characteristic 473 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: in the sense that you know, women were raised to 474 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: get a's and please the teacher and all of that, 475 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: although my dad was my teacher and I was a 476 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: little but um, you know, to to follow rules and 477 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,719 Speaker 1: follow advice. UM. And so that's one of the biggest learnings. 478 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: I'd say that that I finally feel pretty confident that 479 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: I have UM. I have a very strong opinion about 480 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: how our business should the run and about how we 481 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: should grow, and certainly open to ideas and suggestions. UM. 482 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you know, I 483 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: I feel good about my gut and about my my 484 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: own opinions. So that's something that I think took a 485 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: long time to develop, and it wasn't something that I 486 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: could just learn overnight. UM. And and that characteristic affected 487 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, pretty much every decision that we had to make, 488 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: UM in the business as we are growing. Well, I 489 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: mean along those same lines in terms of trusting yourself 490 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: and relying on that internal drive. I'm really curious about 491 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: where your ambition and your drive came from, even from 492 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: a young age, back in your girl scout days, in 493 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: addition to what keeps you motivated today every day. I 494 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: don't know, I've always been UM, I guess like fiercely 495 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: independent and UM just like the notion of wanting to 496 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: do something that's a little different than the norm UM. 497 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,479 Speaker 1: And I would say that probably goes back to my 498 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: parents again because they certainly didn't follow convention UM. And 499 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: so the notion of you know, working like a regular 500 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: job or working for someone else, UM, just so not 501 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: appealing to me. That and when I when I really 502 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: became enamored and also addicted to the idea of the 503 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: underwear and what it could do for women. UM. I 504 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: knew that I wanted to give it my best shot 505 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: and see if I could make it happen. Um And 506 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: So you know, every every year, I feel like the 507 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: business is a different business because um you know, we're 508 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: selling different products or we've got different people on our 509 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: team or a different size, and so that keeps it 510 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: that keeps it really interesting for me. Um And I 511 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: would say, you know, they're definitely good days and bad days, 512 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: but what really keeps me motivated is like thinking about 513 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: thinking about the future and thinking about like what's the 514 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: best thing that could happen to us? Um and And 515 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: definitely I've been accused of having like rose colored glasses 516 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: before um and, but I think any entrepreneur should have 517 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: rose colored glasses, right, Like like you anchor your mind 518 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: on like what are all of the good things that 519 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: are coming out that could happen, um and then you 520 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: work towards those and like that's how they come true. 521 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: So I'm a big fan of just like forgetting the negative. 522 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,719 Speaker 1: You know, any anything that's not inspiring and motivating, just 523 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: don't think about it. Um And certainly, like you can't 524 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: ignore things, but just always having a positive lens on 525 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: everything that you're doing. I think has been incredibly helpful 526 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: for me to stay motivated, UM, because you are constantly 527 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: having on your mind the things that are exciting and 528 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: UM and happy. And then when those things come true 529 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: and you do something like the Victoria's Secret Perfect Body campaign, 530 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: our response to that UM or the women in Tech 531 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: bet a shoot, and then there's just there's both of 532 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: those instances, there is this outpouring of love and appreciation 533 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: and you it makes you realize how much what we're 534 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: doing does matter and and people do notice it, UM, 535 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: and it's providing a different a different voice to that conversation. UM. 536 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: And so that's really satisfying. And then you know, we're 537 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: always talking about all right, what's next, what can we 538 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: do next? Well, speaking of what's next, what is next 539 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: for dear Case, both in terms of products and also 540 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: sort of the background mission of almost normalizing the female 541 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: body as well as our bodily functions, if that makes sense, absolutely, 542 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: um So I think in two thousand Fourtune we really 543 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: figured out what um what works, you know, like we 544 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: really refined our voice and UM, so you know we're 545 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: gonna do more of the same in that aspect, We're 546 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: going to feature more women in Fetter shoots who we 547 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: admire because of who they are and what they do. UM. 548 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to expand our yoga line. So we're 549 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: getting feedback from all of our customers on our first 550 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: collection UM and turning that around and coming out with 551 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: our collection two point of this year. UM. So that's 552 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: really exciting. And I get to be involved in you know, 553 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: all of that design and fittings and fabric sellection and 554 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: all of those things, UM and and a long the 555 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: lines of you know, normalizing, normalizing the female body and 556 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: making people comfortable with it. I think it's all about 557 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: providing things that start the conversation. UM. And it's not 558 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: only starting the conversation with men, but also UM with women. 559 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: And you know, there are some women who are super 560 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: comfortable talking about their period, and then there are other 561 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: women who you know, that's just not something that was 562 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: discussed in their house UM when they were growing up, 563 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: and so it's really uncomfortable and so UM for us, 564 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: you know, we're using humor, we're using emotions, UM, different 565 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: things that make it easier for people to relate and 566 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: when they see us bringing us bringing periods into you know, 567 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 1: the mainstream media or things like that. It really helps 568 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: to start those conversations. And the more people talk about 569 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: periods and the more people know about them, um, and 570 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: it's amazing. I love educating guys about periods. Sometimes they're 571 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: just totally clueless and I'm like, okay, so you have 572 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: no idea how this works, Like, let me tell you 573 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: because it's actually really interesting. Um. And that weird some 574 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: guys out, but other guys they're like, okay, cool, I'm down. Um. 575 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: So I think for us it's about out, you know, 576 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: starting those conversations. And we've got a bunch of fun 577 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: things upper sleeve that we're working on that I think 578 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: are going to get a lot of a lot of exposure. 579 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: I can't can't go into detail, um, but along the 580 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: lines of you know what it's what are the emotions? 581 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: Like what happens when you getting a p seriod? Like 582 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: what is it all about? Um? How does it make 583 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: you feel? What happened? Um? Funny stories things like that. Well, 584 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: we definitely look forward to seeing how all of that 585 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: develops in the conversations that deer Kate starts and obviously 586 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: to the products that you all, you know, continue to 587 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: create because I think it's high time that we also 588 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 1: have an alternative to the more mainstream, victorious secrets out 589 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: there that look at our bodies in our underwear in 590 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: different and more progressive kinds of ways. So, um, we're 591 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: we're big fans and wish you guys the best, or 592 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: I should I should say you ladies the best. So, Julie, 593 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking to us today. We 594 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: had a blast, and I know I learned so much 595 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: about how awesome they can be to be an entrepreneur, 596 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: and I know that we're grateful and a lot of 597 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: other ladies out there are so grateful for the products 598 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: that you and your Kate have put out. And it's 599 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: also inspiring, I'm sure to listeners as well to hear 600 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: how a stem field led to this unlikely startup. Um So, 601 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: this interview was exciting on a number of different levels 602 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: for us and for listeners who are interested in learning 603 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: more about Julie and dear Kate. You can head on 604 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: over to the dear Kate website, which is dear Kate's 605 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: plural dot com and if you see something you like, 606 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: dear Kate is offering stuff I've Never Told You listeners 607 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: off their first underwear purchase with the promo code stuff 608 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: mom Never told You, No spaces in between all one words, 609 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never told You. And in addition to checking 610 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: out all of the products and their ad campaigns that 611 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: they've had, they also have a great blog that you 612 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: should follow as well, they have fun social media for 613 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: you to check out. So be sure to head on 614 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: over to dear Kate's dot com and support some ladies 615 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: doing some really great and innovative and progressive business. And 616 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: now we want to hear from you. Do you have 617 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: any period underwear stories? You know you have some? You 618 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: know you have some stories. Email us moms Stuff at 619 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. You can also tweet us 620 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: if it's a very short period story at mom Stuff Podcasts, 621 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: or messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple of 622 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: messages to share with you when we come right back 623 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: from a quick break. And now back to the show. 624 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: So we have a couple of letters here about our 625 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: comic book series, and I have a letter here from Virginia. 626 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: She says, I've been listening to Sminty for years and 627 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: love all the episodes, but women in comics Part two 628 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: was awesome. Listening to your episode was like listening to 629 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: someone list the faces of my life. I've been a 630 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: fan of comics ever since I was a kid and 631 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: gobbled up Bone and Calvin and Hobbes. In middle school 632 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: and high school, I really love manga, graphic novels, and 633 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: some very dark comic books like The Punisher and hell Boy. 634 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: Then in college it became more interested in web comics. 635 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: I was too poor to afford anything else and started 636 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: reading Wonder Woman since I thought that was important to 637 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: being a good feminist. I tried reading some other superhero comics, 638 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: but couldn't really get into them back then because either 639 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: you had to back read ten thousand comic books just 640 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: to understand the plot X Men, or suffered from women 641 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: in refrigerator syndrome everything else. Now, for the first time, 642 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: I've really been enjoying a whole mess of superhero comics, 643 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: quite a few of which you mentioned. I can't get 644 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: enough of Miss Marvel and Thor and back Girl is 645 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: pretty good too. There's a fractured fairy tales trend going 646 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: on now too, which I think would appeal to a 647 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: lot of female readers. Some good titles are Once Upon 648 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: a Time Machine, Fables, and Jim Henson's The Storyteller. In 649 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: the pie cast, you talked about how intimidating comic bookstores 650 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: can be, which I understand, but I've had only positive 651 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: experiences in stores. Store runners are getting the picture that 652 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: women read comics too. The store that I get my 653 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: subscription from now shout out to a Hall of Comics 654 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: in Southborough, Massachusetts, is the most organized comic bookstore I've 655 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: ever been in. Good labeling and attractive displays to a 656 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: world of difference in making a store more welcoming and 657 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: less intimidating to new readers. Whenever I go in, they 658 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: remember my name, nerd out with me over Saga and 659 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 1: Miss Marvel, and give excellent suggestions on what to read next. 660 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: The statistic you mentioned about the greater numbers of women 661 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: buying digital comics makes me kind of sad. While I'm 662 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: glad more women are reading comics, they might be missing 663 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: out on a fabulous local comic bookstore. Anyway. Thanks for 664 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: doing such an excellent podcast. I'm very excited about what's 665 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: happening in the comic book industry right now, and I 666 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: hope that many more women start writing and drawing comics 667 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: so that I'll always have great comics to read. So 668 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: thanks Virginia. Well, I've got a letter and a question 669 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: here from Julie, who writes, I'm a twenty three year 670 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: old female working on a sports blog. I'm the youngest 671 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: and only female of twenty three bloggers. The guys I 672 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: blog with no my real name, and we've all met 673 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: in person, so they're aware of my gender and it's 674 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: not something I'm trying to hide. However, my screen name 675 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,839 Speaker 1: is gender neutral, and many commenters automatically assume that I'm 676 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: male due to the subject matter of our blog, and 677 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 1: the readership is skewed quite male. The internet seems to 678 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: be an equalizer at times, where everyone is treated the 679 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: same due to the lack of gender, racial, class, and 680 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: so on, when those details aren't provided. I've noticed, though, 681 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: that when those details are provided, they become the talking 682 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: points when that person speaks on common threads when they 683 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: differ from the white, middle aged, hetero male majority. It 684 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: seems a bit liberating when guys speak to me without 685 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: the usual hang ups that happen in real life. But 686 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm worried that it's coming from not a platform of equality, 687 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: but that they assume I'm a male. Are there any 688 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: articles or studies examining this situation? Thanks, and I'm on 689 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: my way to listen through the whole Menty catalog. Great job. 690 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 1: Well to briefly answer your question, whether there are any 691 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: articles or studies examining gender equality on the Internet and 692 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: on social media, yes, there absolutely are, And in terms 693 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: of articles about how women are treated on the Internet, 694 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: particularly when their screen names and stuff let everyone know 695 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: that yes, they are women, a lot of times it 696 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: is pretty negative because a lot of times women are 697 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: harassed on the Internet simply by virtue of being women, 698 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: and especially if they express opinions on the internet. And 699 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: this I wanted to read this letter because I have 700 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: a feeling that a lot of our listeners experiences as well. 701 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: I know this comes up a lot for women and 702 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,439 Speaker 1: gaming who if they're playing something like Xbox Live, will 703 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: choose a gender neutral user names so that they won't 704 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: be harassed. But Caroline, I'm wondering if it's almost better 705 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: some times to step out from behind gender neutrality, not 706 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: so much to put yourself as a target for harassment, 707 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: but to perhaps in doing so, slowly but surely normalize 708 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: gender online does that make sense at all? Yeah, I 709 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: mean I can honestly see it both ways. I can 710 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: understand why, like I personally would you know, encourage women 711 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: to do that, to step out from behind a neutral 712 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: screen name. But I also understand why someone choosing a 713 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: gender gender neutral screen name would do that, because you 714 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: want to be taken seriously and have value placed on 715 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 1: your writing for its own sake and people appreciating what 716 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: you have to say, um, without the added thought of 717 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:53,799 Speaker 1: you know, what are they going to think of me 718 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: if I'm a woman, or how are they going to 719 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: respond differently to me? Or actually having them respond differently 720 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: to you. I mean it's hard for me to say. 721 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: You know, ideally, obviously we wouldn't have to hide behind 722 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: gender neutral names. But writers have been doing it. Writers 723 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,320 Speaker 1: and scientists have been doing it forever. You know, women 724 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: have been using pen names or hiding behind their initials 725 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote, hiding behind them forever so that they can 726 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 1: get published, so that they can have readership and make 727 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: an actual living. So I don't really know what to 728 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: say beyond I totally get it, and ideally we wouldn't 729 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: have to do that. Yeah, I will say, though I 730 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: would advise in this instance, Julie, if you're listening, if 731 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: you are a blogger and you want to build that 732 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: up as a career, um, I would advise using your 733 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: name as much as possible, if only to create your 734 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,800 Speaker 1: footprint on the web, build your personal brand as a writer, 735 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: and particularly as as a woman writing about sports. So 736 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: that's something just to consider from more of a professional standpoint. 737 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 1: But if there are listeners who have advice about this 738 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: whole gender neutrality on the web pros and cons kind 739 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: of thing, we'd love to hear your input as well. 740 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: So Mom Stuff at how stuff Works again is our 741 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: email address, and if you want to get in touch 742 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: with us on social to find the links to all 743 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,800 Speaker 1: of that, as well as links to all of our blogs, 744 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: videos and podcasts, including this one where it links. To 745 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: learn more about Julie and dear Kate, head on over 746 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for moralness 747 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff Works 748 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: dot com