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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 1: facts about your favorite movies, TV shows, music, and more.

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Speaker 1: We're your two, but I can't pick up any more

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Speaker 1: literate puns about trivia. We hosted research and write all

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Speaker 1: of this, and then Jordan edits it and I sit

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Speaker 1: there and do nothing. I'm Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan

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Speaker 1: run took the editor. Jordan. I think we alluded to

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Speaker 1: this in our fir Gali episode. But from the ages

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Speaker 1: of six to ten, I had multiple reoccurring nightmares, all

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Speaker 1: of which were directly related to classic cinema. One was

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Speaker 1: the chest bursting scene from Alien, which is a movie

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Speaker 1: I watched at six years old, which is obviously way

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Speaker 1: too young. No, that was my home was being invaded

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Speaker 1: by dinosaurs, which was from seeing Jurassic Park in theaters

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Speaker 1: for he was being stalked by Michael Myers like Implacable Murderer,

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Speaker 1: because the kid down the street from me was very

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Speaker 1: much into those movies and we watched like five of

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Speaker 1: them in a sleepover once and four was christ for

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Speaker 1: Lloyd spoiler alert in all of his horrifying Judge Doom

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Speaker 1: cartoon villain glory from the end of Who Framed Roger Rabbit,

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Speaker 1: which I guess means that Steven Spielberg has had a

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Speaker 1: direct hand in two of my childhood reoccurring nightmare. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good for him. Uh yeah, your hexas is my Judge Doom,

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Speaker 1: Judge melting. Yeah, he takes it way too far. Just

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Speaker 1: that saw it when he pulls out the saw hand

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Speaker 1: and it's just like Uncanny Valley enough that it's like

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Speaker 1: to be actually horrible. It's not the melting. It's like

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Speaker 1: when he turns into look, just look, and when he

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Speaker 1: pops up and inflates himself. Oh yeah, and his eyeballs pop.

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Speaker 1: And that's something I didn't understand when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: when the fake eyeballs popped out. I thought his eyes

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Speaker 1: just popped. It's the worst. Everything about that is not

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Speaker 1: I mean, we'll we'll get into this later in the episode.

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Speaker 1: Why this movie was initially catered towards kids and then

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Speaker 1: they very quickly realized in test screenings and no, so

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Speaker 1: they just doubled down on the adult thing. So what's

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Speaker 1: your history with w f R are No question? Mark.

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Speaker 1: I watched it all the time as a kid too.

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Speaker 1: I think, like many people, my parents sort of mistakenly

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Speaker 1: thought that it was a kid's movie, which dominantly is.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of boobs stuff too, and guns

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Speaker 1: and knives. Yeah, I watched a lot. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it was a scarring to me, is it was for you?

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Speaker 1: I kind of like the old Hollywood noir kind of

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Speaker 1: side of it too. It's such a great bit that

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Speaker 1: doing the doing the like whimsical animation stuff and then

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Speaker 1: like C D L A noir. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I agree, that's so genius. Man, we are Probably I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say this. I haven't tested this. I haven't talked

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Speaker 1: to kids under the age of ten because the courts

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Speaker 1: won't let me. But um, I feel like we're the

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Speaker 1: last demographic. We're in our mid really mid thirties now

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Speaker 1: to grow up watching like Looney Tunes stuff because it

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Speaker 1: was just me what kind of would watch whatever was

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Speaker 1: on on table? And now I would venture to say

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Speaker 1: quite a few of those probably aren't shown anymore for various, uh,

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Speaker 1: various reasons related to violence. P Yeah, exactly. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if kids seeing stuff in syndication is a thing

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Speaker 1: really that much anymore. It's all probably all like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what do you bump into on, Like when you're like

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Speaker 1: sitting at home and you don't have hobbies yet, you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't accidentally watch things anymore the same way. I

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Speaker 1: feel like we just would kind of watch because it

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Speaker 1: was on. Yeah. I I don't really remember when I

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Speaker 1: first saw this movie, but yeah, man, I distinctly remember

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Speaker 1: having nightmares about good old, good old Lloyd Well from

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Speaker 1: the Bronze Star Avoided Vietnam Vette, who conducted horrifying psy

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Speaker 1: ops during the war, and wrote the novel the film

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Speaker 1: is based on, to the contract wrangling that necessitated getting

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Speaker 1: all of these animated figures on screen at one time,

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Speaker 1: to the movies still in development health sequel Here is

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Speaker 1: Everything you didn't know about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? So

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Speaker 1: as I alluded to a second ago, The film was

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Speaker 1: loosely adapted from Gary K. Wolf's novel Who Censored Roger Rabbit.

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Speaker 1: Wolf had a pretty bog standard Midwest upbringing until he

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Speaker 1: was shipped off to Vietnam, where he served as an

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Speaker 1: Air Force captain with the fifth Commando Air Squadron and

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Speaker 1: one A Bronze Star and two Air Medals when I

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Speaker 1: wikipedied them. The fifth Air Commando Squadron has been described

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Speaker 1: as conducting both humanitarian programs and ominously psychological operations until

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Speaker 1: they were deactivated in nineteen sixty nine at Woodstock, while

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Speaker 1: Jimi Hendricks played the national anthem and CCR somehow simultaneously

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Speaker 1: played fortunate Son, how whether if he had anything to

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Speaker 1: do with Operation Wandering Soul? Are you familiar? Just go

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Speaker 1: for it? Man ripped the band aid off. Yeah, heigl

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Speaker 1: tried to get me to not talk about this in

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Speaker 1: this episode. I alluded to it. I went with it.

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Speaker 1: You gotta go. Speaking of absolutely traumatizing nightmare fuel, this

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Speaker 1: is way up there for me. Um. For those of

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Speaker 1: you not aware, the US Armed Force has made horrifying

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Speaker 1: tapes of ghostly sound some voices, saying that they were

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Speaker 1: ghosts of the dead wandering aimlessly. This was said in Vietnamese,

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Speaker 1: and there's basically exploiting this Buddhist belief that once a

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Speaker 1: person dies, their body must be buried in the family

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Speaker 1: plot or their soul will wander aimlessly. So American forces

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Speaker 1: broadcast these ghostly voices into the jungles at night via

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Speaker 1: huge speakers as a way to try to frighten Viet

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Speaker 1: Cong communist forces into UH surrendering or defecting, And a

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Speaker 1: tape of one of them is online and it's on

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Speaker 1: the shortlist of the most horrifying things I've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: So um so there you go, we uh this movie

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Speaker 1: has a piece of our own personal fear quilts for

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Speaker 1: both of us. Wolf has written three Roger Rabbit books,

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Speaker 1: and UH subsequently took Disney to court in two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: alleging that he was owed money from the merchandizing of

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Speaker 1: these characters. That's a rookie move. You do not take

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Speaker 1: Disney accord. This is yeah. I mean, we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: dwelt too much on this, but case study and why

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Speaker 1: you never go against the House of Mouse. He estimated

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Speaker 1: that he was owed something like seven million, which I

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Speaker 1: ever sure, and Disney counter that not only did they

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Speaker 1: not owe him that money, that in the bookkeeping they

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Speaker 1: did for this case, they turned up that he owed

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Speaker 1: them one million dollars over various accounting airs. That's that's

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Speaker 1: a very round number. That seems like something that they

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Speaker 1: were incredible, man, Like you're they're suing us and they

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Speaker 1: just they have the hotspot would be like, actually, you

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Speaker 1: owe us money, and he eventually won the one heavy

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Speaker 1: air quotes between eighty grand and four hundred thousand of damages.

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Speaker 1: But man, you do not mess with Disney. And here

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Speaker 1: this will interest you. Mr Wolf has an extensive collection

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Speaker 1: of antique carousel horses at his home, which landed him

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Speaker 1: on the cover of a San Francisco area magazine in nineteen.

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Speaker 1: I can't really articulate why this is, but that just

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Speaker 1: feels like the logical conclusion the inevitable outcomes to participated

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Speaker 1: in psyops in Vietnam. I don't know, a collection of

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Speaker 1: carnival toys like you gotta have something in your Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was actually his payout for Nixon, that we're going

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Speaker 1: to give him a Congression Metal of Honor, and he

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Speaker 1: was like, I'll take it in carousel horses. Uh. Wolf

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Speaker 1: said in twenty nineteen that he changed the title from

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Speaker 1: censored to framed, fearing that the American movie going public,

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Speaker 1: seeing the word censored in the title, would think it

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Speaker 1: was about porn. But maybe they were right to think that. Yeah. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I I actually haven't read these books myself,

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Speaker 1: but I've heard that all the cartoons in his novels

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Speaker 1: were stars of comic strips and not movies, and that's

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Speaker 1: why the novels contain characters like Dick Tracy and Haggard

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Speaker 1: the Horrible and Snoopy and Beatle Bailey. And the plot

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Speaker 1: in the books are set in present day and the

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Speaker 1: crime at the heart of the story is that Roger

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Speaker 1: Rabbit himself has been murdered or censored. Uh so, maybe

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Speaker 1: that's why they took it out of the title. The movie.

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Speaker 1: Also is that the plot was different. He was murdered

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Speaker 1: because I guess he was demanding his own solo comic

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Speaker 1: strip and the studio heads killed him. But I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: as you can probably guess just from this brief description,

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Speaker 1: the novels are a lot darker than the movie. It's

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Speaker 1: revealed that Roger Rabbit has killed the studio head in

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Speaker 1: the novels, and his wife, Jessica, is a former adult

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Speaker 1: film star who married Roger just for his money and

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Speaker 1: doesn't really love him. It's also a dark yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think they also he's like a clone in

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Speaker 1: the books, like there's a blade Runner demension, Like they

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Speaker 1: can clone cartoons or make copies of them, but they

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Speaker 1: only last three days, so there's like a race against

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Speaker 1: time for them to solve this crime before like this

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Speaker 1: copy of him dies. It's very weird. I can't say

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Speaker 1: that I actually want to read it, but I think

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Speaker 1: that I don't think it's really talked about in the

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Speaker 1: context of this film, at least currently. That Will very

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Speaker 1: pointedly made the book about his discrimination and civil rights,

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Speaker 1: which he says Robert Zemakis, who directed it, immediately picked

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Speaker 1: up upon is something to highlight. Um. The what they

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Speaker 1: call the Incan Pen Club is a very obvious nod

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Speaker 1: to the Cotton Club, which is the famous Harlem spot

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Speaker 1: where like Duke Gellington and Cab Callaway could play but

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Speaker 1: couldn't be served. There's a sign in the book that

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Speaker 1: says no tunes served. And there's a whole bit in

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Speaker 1: there about Jessica. Uh, she like suppresses her thought balloons, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or her speech bubbles. She like consciously makes a choice

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Speaker 1: or like has to like suppress them so that she

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Speaker 1: can pass. It's very interesting as a human and not

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Speaker 1: as a cartoon. Wow, that is really interesting. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: time sit a profile in this and as Amica said,

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Speaker 1: we were very aware of what we were doing before

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Speaker 1: immediately making one of the worst comparisons possible by saying,

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Speaker 1: although we drew the line at calling the dip the

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Speaker 1: final solution good God, which is incidentally is made of turpentine, acidtone,

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Speaker 1: and benzine, which are all chemicals used to strip paint

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Speaker 1: from animation cells. Uh, speaking of the dip, did you

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Speaker 1: know that the scene when Judge Doom is demonstrating the dip,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you do light late at night for most

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Speaker 1: of your childhood. Uh. He dips a little cartoon shoe

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Speaker 1: into this vat of the pick me box that says

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Speaker 1: squeaky shoes. Yes, yes, you know who does the voice

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Speaker 1: of the Squeaky Shoes. That Nancy cart Right, who later

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Speaker 1: went on to do the voice of Bart Simpson. They

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Speaker 1: got really good voice actor. I mean they got no

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Speaker 1: blank Wow. We'll get to it. Um. So the novel

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Speaker 1: comes out. Ron W. Miller, who was the president of Disney,

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Speaker 1: buys the rights to the novel pretty much after it

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Speaker 1: was published. In Miller's fascinating to me. He was Walt's

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Speaker 1: son in law, and he was a professional football player

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Speaker 1: for the l A Rams until Walt saw him take

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Speaker 1: a really bad hit at a game and offered him

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Speaker 1: a job at Disney because he didn't want his grandkids

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Speaker 1: to grow up without a dad or a brain damaged one.

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Speaker 1: I think he literally said something like, you're gonna get

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Speaker 1: killed out there, so come work for me instead. And

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Speaker 1: you'd think with this background that he would have been

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Speaker 1: kind of a pushover, and indeed he did only last

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Speaker 1: four years the job. He was made president in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty and was basically forced out in nine eight four

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Speaker 1: in favor of Michael Eisner, Frank Wells and recurring too

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Speaker 1: much information enemy Jeffrey Katzenberg. But before then he was

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Speaker 1: actually pretty forward thinking. As a head of a major

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Speaker 1: animation studio. He pushed for Tron, which is one the

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Speaker 1: most groundbreaking films of the era as far as computer animation,

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Speaker 1: funded the early Tim Burton stop motion animation shorts like

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Speaker 1: Frank and Weeney, and acquired the rights to Roger Rabbit.

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Price Peter s Semen were hired to write the script.

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Speaker 1: They did two drafts of it, and they are respectfully hacks.

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Speaker 1: There are other credits include Wild Wild West, How the

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Speaker 1: Grinch Stole Christmas, which I believe you have a personal

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Speaker 1: connection to. Yeah, that's right, I have Christmas Lights from

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Speaker 1: The Grinch still Christmas set from the Universal backlot when

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Speaker 1: I was wandering around back there as a kid. Well,

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Speaker 1: do you have items from the other movies that they scripted,

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Speaker 1: such as Last Holiday and Shrek the Third? Uh? No,

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Speaker 1: I do not, incidentally, hacks, though they may be. The

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Speaker 1: whole subplot of this movie, which everyone forgets about. I

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Speaker 1: forgot about, is about Judge Doom buying up the public

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Speaker 1: transportation lines and tuned town so that he can like

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Speaker 1: gut the city. Is actually what happened. Yeah, It's incredibly

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Speaker 1: insightful though, because it plays into the whole noir thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, Chinatown was seventy four, so it's about fourteen

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Speaker 1: years in the review mirror, but it cast along shadow.

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Speaker 1: Chinatown is probably the greatest Delloye noir movie ever made, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is what's so fascinating. They picked up

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Speaker 1: on and there's this whole notion in like this whole

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Speaker 1: trope and noir of like the detective has like his

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Speaker 1: a case of like infidelity or I don't know whatever

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Speaker 1: that he has to investigate and then gets enmeshed in

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Speaker 1: this larger like usually city planning based like conspiracy it's

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Speaker 1: a corruption at like a state level or like government level.

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Speaker 1: So the whole thing about the red car line being

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Speaker 1: bought up by clover Leaf and the gutting of public

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Speaker 1: transportation is real. And in the DVD commentary, Peter Siemens says,

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Speaker 1: there had to be a real story, So we came

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Speaker 1: up with the red car plot, which is a real

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Speaker 1: one where the tire companies and auto companies conspired to

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Speaker 1: get rid of the trolley cars in Los Angeles because

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Speaker 1: the car was the future. And Zamka's adds in the commentary,

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Speaker 1: that's right, the freeways in Los Angeles run right along

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Speaker 1: the same roots as the red car tracks. And it's god,

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Speaker 1: that is so funny to me, because first of all,

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Speaker 1: there's that line where Bob Hoskin says, you don't need

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Speaker 1: a car. In l A. We got the greatest public

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Speaker 1: transportation system in the world, which is hilarious to anyone

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Speaker 1: living or peripherally familiar with modern day l A. And

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Speaker 1: I no, I mean, it's I'm hard pressed to name

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Speaker 1: another city of that caliber in every other regard that

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Speaker 1: has a worst public transportation system. It's really and the

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Speaker 1: red cars. It might might be worth to add where

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Speaker 1: the the slang term for the public trolley system, which

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Speaker 1: was great, which was you know, it was a massive,

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Speaker 1: really impressive especially for its time public transportation system. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about why this film is like in the lagist

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Speaker 1: right now. But the guys that read letter media or

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Speaker 1: a cliche to say this, but one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: like YouTube film reviewers, they just put out a thing

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Speaker 1: on Roger Rabbit and they said at one point that

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Speaker 1: there was a proposed sequel to Chinatown, not the two

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Speaker 1: Jake's which actually got made, but sequel to Chinatown that

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Speaker 1: would have focused on this public transportation scheme. Wow. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much they knew about this, the

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Speaker 1: screenwriters knew about this or whatever, but it is fascinating

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Speaker 1: that that was somewhere ambiently floating around Hollywood as like

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Speaker 1: a pitch for a noir plot that made this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the funniest thing is the company in there would

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Speaker 1: have been called clover Leaf, supposedly in the Chinatown in

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Speaker 1: this in this Chowpac. It's so crazy to me thinking

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Speaker 1: about how I mean, I've send naives saying this. Companies

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Speaker 1: do that all the time. And then look what happened

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Speaker 1: to the electric car in the nineties. I mean, uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's just amazing to me that the tire and

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Speaker 1: automobile companies conspired against the entire city to kill their

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Speaker 1: public transportation system to force people to buy cars. That's incredible.

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Speaker 1: What does he say? He's like four lanes of gleaming

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Speaker 1: perfect concrete from here to Pasadena. You do an incredible

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Speaker 1: Christopher Lloyd. I remember, I think it was They're gonna

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Speaker 1: say something serious. It was in Hook. It was our

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Speaker 1: first episode we did sitting in this very room. That

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Speaker 1: you did amazing Christopher Lloyd as Captain Hook. I love

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Speaker 1: him so much. Um So Zamacha's had actually offered to

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Speaker 1: direct an early version of this film in nine two,

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Speaker 1: but he had just made I Want to Hold Your

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Speaker 1: Hand and used cars, which flopped, so Disney shot him down.

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Speaker 1: I Want to Hold Your Hand is a great movie.

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Speaker 1: It's about a bunch of kids trying to get tickets

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Speaker 1: to see the Beatles on Ed Sullivan when they first

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Speaker 1: arrived in America. It's really sweet. Prime directly at you

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Speaker 1: exactly anyway around this time. Test footage is actually created

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Speaker 1: with Pee Wee Herman, Paul Rubens voicing Roger Rabbit, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think it gets any further than that. But

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Speaker 1: Ron eight five, Eisner, who we mentioned had just taken

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Speaker 1: over as CEO, picks it back up again. Enter Ambulance Entertainment,

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, and Kathy Kennedy, who Disney approached

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Speaker 1: to produce Roger Rabbit with them. This is because Eisner,

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Speaker 1: who had been a paramount previously, had helped Spielberg with

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Speaker 1: the Indiana Jones movies, and then Spielberg subsequently returned that

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Speaker 1: favor by bringing I l M, which just George Lucas's company,

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Speaker 1: Industrial Light and Magic, groundbreaking special effects firm, to help

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Speaker 1: with Roger's effects. It is so fascinating me that in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties they were like, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what, two dozen people in Hollywood and they all

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Speaker 1: just like did each other's stuff. Uh. The original budget

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Speaker 1: was projected at fifty million, which Disney felt was far

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Speaker 1: too expensive. It was greenlit when they slashed to thirty million,

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Speaker 1: which still made it the most expensive animated film ever

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Speaker 1: at that point, and then the budget did subsequently balloon

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Speaker 1: back up to fifty million, which we will talk about.

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Speaker 1: But so Samaka has comes back into favor. He's hot

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Speaker 1: off Romancing the Stone and Back to the Future, so

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Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, you're our golden boy again. You can direct.

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Speaker 1: Terry Gilliam, who is apparently just everybody's first or second

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Speaker 1: choice in the eighties after Monty Python in Brazil, was

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Speaker 1: also off of the chance to direct, but he found

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Speaker 1: it too technically demanding, which is bizarre to me because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't his whole thing on Monty Python doing into

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Speaker 1: live action. Maybe that's why he turned it down, and

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Speaker 1: heater he didn't blend them. It was mostly just linking

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Speaker 1: bits into live action anyway. He said it was pure

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Speaker 1: laziness on my part, which he says he completely regrets

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Speaker 1: that decision. A little bit of Bob Zamca's film Synergy

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Speaker 1: here uh the tunnel to Tunetown and Roger Rabbit the

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Speaker 1: very distinctive road tunnel. It was used at the end

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Speaker 1: of Back to the Future too, when Marty is trying

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Speaker 1: to use his hoverboard to escape Biff who's trying to

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Speaker 1: basically run him down in his car. Back in and

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Speaker 1: ironically in both films, Christopher Lloyd is waiting on the

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Speaker 1: other end of the tunnel. He's doc and back to

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Speaker 1: the Future and he's judged Doom and Roger Rabbit, and

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Speaker 1: I guess some elements of Roger Rabbit also came in

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Speaker 1: handy when Bob Zamechas was doing the third Back to

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Speaker 1: the Future, which was set in the Old West. For

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Speaker 1: some of the scenes when Marty mcflies being dragged by

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Speaker 1: a horse, he's actually being dragged by the Benny, the

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Speaker 1: cab go kart that they just had leftover. Good didn't

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Speaker 1: he shoot Back to the Future two and three? Like concurrently,

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Speaker 1: I think so, yeah, that is insane, but that is

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Speaker 1: my favorite movie. I would have to say where it's

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Speaker 1: Star Wars rules. I sentimentally I have to say the

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Speaker 1: first one, but I think two is probably the best. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like three, three, we don't really talk no like Godfather

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Speaker 1: exactly actually got Godfather rules, Star Wars rules, Back to

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Speaker 1: the Future rules, second ones always terminat Terminator rules, although

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Speaker 1: there are people who go to bed for the first

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Speaker 1: Terminator every second, but those people are wrong. Um Spielberg's

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Speaker 1: contract included an extensive amount of creative control, and crucially,

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Speaker 1: Zamakis gets final cut and Spielberg gets split for box

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Speaker 1: office and licensing, which was a great deal. But man Spielberg.

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Speaker 1: Really he earned it. Yeah, So he went around and

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Speaker 1: convinced Warner Brothers, Fleischer Studios, King Feature Syndicate, Felix, the

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Speaker 1: Cat Productions, Turner Entertainment, and Universal Picture Slash Walter Land's

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Speaker 1: production to lend the various characters to the film. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, considering that he'd been attached to literally billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars in movie properties at that point, his negotiating

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Speaker 1: power was pretty good. And it was so great that he,

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Speaker 1: I guess, secured the use of Looney Tunes characters from

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers for just five thousand dollars a character, which

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Speaker 1: is insane. And the final tally for the pre existing

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Speaker 1: cartoon characters using Roger Rabbit number that I came across

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Speaker 1: at least was a hundred and forty, including eighty one

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Speaker 1: from Disney, including once from Song of the South, the

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Speaker 1: most memory Hold movie and Disney existence memory Hole. I

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Speaker 1: think it's very well true. People remember they do not

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Speaker 1: acknowledge it. Yeah. Um, and there are nineteen characters from

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Good, that's all good. I think um retroactively,

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Speaker 1: Wiley E. Coyote and the road Runner are in there,

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Speaker 1: even though anachronistically, they were not invented at that time,

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Speaker 1: but Spielberg pushed for them to be in there, which

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Speaker 1: is I just love the fact that all these guys were, like,

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Speaker 1: we love cartoons so much, we're gonna make ourselves insane

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Speaker 1: doing this love letter to the era. Except the idea

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Speaker 1: of like the cigar chopping executive, that coyote stays in

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Speaker 1: the picture. Coyote stays. But all these permissions came with

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Speaker 1: strings attached, which are some of my favorite bits about

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Speaker 1: this So Donald Duck and Daffy Duck both appear in

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Speaker 1: that club scene. They do the dueling piano scene, and

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Speaker 1: their respective studios mandated that they would both be made

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Speaker 1: to appear equally talented as pianists. One could not be

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Speaker 1: made to appear more confident a piano player than the

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Speaker 1: other one. I mean, yeah, I'm sure that was enough

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Speaker 1: to make at least one high powered attorney want to

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Speaker 1: just walk into the ocean, like I'm negotiating for cartoon

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Speaker 1: Ducks right now. That scene is so weird in the

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Speaker 1: annals of this movie, because they talk about I read

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Speaker 1: this as a rumor somewhere that so Daffy Duck does

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Speaker 1: all the like they do that shot of him from

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Speaker 1: the back end of the piano and he's got like

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Speaker 1: props like the boxing glove and stuff. One of them

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Speaker 1: was supposedly there's a frame of a dead baby in

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Speaker 1: there and they took it out, id that the director

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Speaker 1: made him take it out understandably yea. And there's also

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Speaker 1: a persistent rumor that Donald ducks like Gibberish includes a

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Speaker 1: slur I've heard that too, which I don't believe is true.

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Speaker 1: I hope not. I mean, come on, guys like But

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Speaker 1: then again, it gets back to the whole like racial

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Speaker 1: elements of the of the tunes versus humans humans and

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Speaker 1: the piece that they are playing in. There is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a cartoon Greatest Hits. It is Franz Leash

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Speaker 1: Hungarian Rhapsody, which also plays in a Tom and Jerry cartoon,

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Speaker 1: The Cat Concerto which one an Oscar and the Bugs

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Speaker 1: Bunny cartoon Rahapsody Rabbit from Um the other Big Thing

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Speaker 1: from their Um. Bugs and Mickey are both in this

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Speaker 1: movie for like a brief scene when Eddie is falling

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Speaker 1: from the top of a very tall building and Bugs

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Speaker 1: gives him a spare tire instead of a spare parachute. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: their respective screen time was negotiated down to the second

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Speaker 1: millisecond I'd read, and they had to have an equal

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Speaker 1: number of words. Dave Stafford is one of the animators

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Speaker 1: on this, and he called that scene the most complicated

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Speaker 1: one ever because they, you know, they have Bob Hoskins suspended,

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Speaker 1: and they have to keep all the site lines between him,

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Speaker 1: Mickey and Bugs consistent while all three of them are

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Speaker 1: moving up and down and horizontally while falling. It's insane. Man,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how they like. I will talk about

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Speaker 1: this and once we get into the making of but

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Speaker 1: I don't know how they I really don't know how

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Speaker 1: they did this. There's a great story with the scene

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Speaker 1: when Mickey and Bugs and Eddie are all falling. I

426
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: guess the animators were annoyed with Disney because they were

427
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: being a little too precious about the depiction of their

428
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: characters in general, and Mickey in particular, because he's you know,

429
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: he's he's the mouse, he's the big guy. Uh So,

430
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,479
Speaker 1: in the sequence when they're all falling, I guess they

431
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: inserted a one frame image of Bugs flipping off Mickey,

432
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: who has a shocked look in his face. You can

433
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: see it online. It's pretty funny. Um, there's so much

434
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: freeze frame stuff in this movie. Yeah, we'll get to

435
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: stop at that. Uh. There's also a moment where Bugs

436
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: appears for a brief second outside the Maroon Cartoons studio

437
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: at the opening of the movie. Like it's just like

438
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: a fraction of a second. Despite the agreement with Disney

439
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: that Bugs and Nikki had to appear together at all

440
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: times have an equal amount of scenes, I choose this

441
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: to be a giant middle finger to Disney. Also, like,

442
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: all right, we'll sneak our guy in there a little

443
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: bit more. Yeah, I mean talk us through a little

444
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: bit more about these uh negotiations about this. Oh yeah,

445
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: this whole like tune swap Disney Warner Brothers armistice for

446
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: Roger Rabbit is really funny. It gave rise to this

447
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: amazing feud that happened a few years later. So Roger

448
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: Rabbitt was being overseen by Disney and Warner Brothers let

449
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: them use their characters for a nominal fee. Uh. And

450
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: in the nineties, when Warner Brothers is working on their

451
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: own cartoon crossover movies Space Jam, they reached out to

452
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: Disney to basically return the favor and allow them to

453
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: use some of the Disney characters in Space jam But

454
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: by this point, Disney was under new management and not

455
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: willing to play nice with Warner Brothers, and they refused,

456
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: and Warner Brothers were piste, and they accused Disney of

457
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: breaking a decades old gentleman's agreement, and they even threatened

458
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: legal action. And these threats never materialized. But Space Jem

459
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: has a number of barbed jokes aimed at Disney, and

460
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: as a result of this kerfuffle, Warner Brothers claimed that

461
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: they would never work with Disney again. And I don't

462
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,479
Speaker 1: know how true that is, but I think Roger rabbits

463
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: the only film where there's Disney characters and Warner Brothers

464
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: characters appearing together. I think that's still the case. Um.

465
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: And there's an incredible deleted scene that I'm so sad.

466
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: I don't even think it was ever animated, but it

467
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: was an early storyboards, uh. In an early version of

468
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: the film. There's a scene where the tunes are assembled

469
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: at Marvin Acne's funeral at Forest Lawn, which is a

470
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: famous cemetery in Los Angeles, and Popeye and Bluto are

471
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: pall bearers and a fight breaks out, and an early

472
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: storyboards Popeye has shown socking Goofy and Elmer Foot, which

473
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: is just tremendous. Fog Horn Leghorn delivers a eulogy, and

474
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: the coffin winds up being a giant jack in the box.

475
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 1: It's it's so great. I'm really sad it didn't end

476
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: up happening, but I'm guessing. You know, these studios were

477
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: already pretty nervous about licensing out their precious characters anyway,

478
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: so having them get into a battle royal in a

479
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: cemetery was probably a bridge too far from them. Cowards uh.

480
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers also freaked out that Dave Spafford, who is

481
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: that animator who I mentioned earlier, had used the older

482
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: Bob Clampet design for Daffy Duck instead of the modern

483
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: version by Chuck Jones, which is period accurate, and they

484
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: got around is by baking him do more work. ZAMCA

485
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: has had to animate a separate sequence using the current

486
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: Jones design and send that to Warner Brothers as part

487
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: of the dailies to mollify them, and then was like, yeah,

488
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: and now use the old one in the actual movie.

489
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: So they designed two sequences, one of which they faked

490
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: out Warner Brothers with, and one is in the current film. Um,

491
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: I I can't imagine there wasn't an easier way to

492
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: just put your foot down, but all right, Spafford really

493
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: went above and beyond for this. He pulls his groin

494
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: doing Daffy Duck's signature the hooting as he gets carded

495
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: off in the piano because Mel Blank was a hundred

496
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: and seventy six years old doing this and like just

497
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: physically couldn't do that anymore. I think the other one

498
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: is Yosemite Sam. He doesn't do the like whoa like,

499
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: He couldn't do that, so they had other people like

500
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: step in and do that for him. Um, I'll talk

501
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: more about Mel Blank. I mean Mel Blank is just

502
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: the greatest cartoon voiceover artist tip what's his credits in

503
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: the thousands of characters that he has voiced, but I mean,

504
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: among them, he got bugs, Bunny, Daffy Duck, Porky Pig, Tweetiebirds,

505
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: so best of the cat, Good Lord, Yeah, Barney on

506
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: flint Stones, the Jetsons. Yeah, the guy was really an

507
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: m v P of the era. Yeah, And this was

508
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: one of the last ones in which he did the

509
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: Looney Tunes characters before he died in eighty nine after

510
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: making his last movie, Daffy Ducks Quackbusters. Have you heard

511
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: the story about Mel Blank and dead Man's Curve? Sure haven't,

512
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: but I bet you have it? Well? Yes, Well Radio

513
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: Lab did a really cool episode on it. Um Okay,

514
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: So it's one. Mel Blank was driving along the same

515
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: dangerous bend in Los Angeles that Jan and Deane sang

516
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: about for their famous song dead Man's Curve and he

517
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: gets into a head on while driving his ass in

518
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: Martin sports car and he's almost killed and he slips

519
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: into a coma and blanks son and wife spent two

520
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 1: weeks at his bedside trying to revive them, but they're

521
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 1: not getting any response. Then, as a last ditch effort,

522
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: one of Mel's neurologists went over to his bedside and

523
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: asked bugs, buddy, Hey, how are you doing today? And

524
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: there was silence for a moment, and then this extremely

525
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: quiet but extremely recognizable voice says, yeah, what's up, doc?

526
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: And then the doctor asked if Tweetie was in there too,

527
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: and then he does the I thought I saw a

528
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: prettycat thing, and Mail spent I guess seven more months

529
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: in a body cast. He even voiced the first few

530
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: episodes of The flint Stones where he was doing Barney

531
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: from the hospital. In this body cast, they had dangled

532
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: a mic above his bed. But um yeah. He was

533
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: later asked about this sort of unorthodox way that he

534
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: emerged from his coma and he said, it seems like

535
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: bugs Bunny was trying to save his life. Oh uh.

536
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: Speaking of classic voice actors, Betty Boop in this movie

537
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: is voice. Yes May Questles, I think how you say

538
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: her name. She provided Betty Whoop's voice for a hundred

539
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: and fifty cartoons shorts starting back in one until the

540
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: series wrapped in ninety nine. She also did the voice

541
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: of Olive Oil and the Popeye cartoons, which I didn't realize,

542
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: which is also interesting because Popeye was supposed to be

543
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: in this film and made it all the way to

544
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: the storyboarding stage and mentioned the Battle Royale at Acme's funeral.

545
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: But I guess the studio that owned the rights held out.

546
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: Maybe they were still recovering from the Robert Altman Robert

547
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: Williams movie debacle. Start. Speaking of Misbegotten Yeah, the live

548
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: action thing from the start of the decade. Other cartoon

549
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: holdouts included Chippendale, Pepe Lapew, Mighty Mouse, Tom and Jerry

550
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: Pedro from Saludos Amigos, Casper, the Friendly Ghost, Witch, Hazel,

551
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: Heckel and Jekyl, several characters from Fantasia, the Tasmanian Devil,

552
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: Screwy Squirrel, Rocky and Bullwinkle, and even Superman. That's Superman. No, no, no,

553
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: they weren't in there. Oh you know who is Frank Sinatra. Baby.

554
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: That is a real recording of him singing Witchcraft when

555
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: Bob Hoskins pulls out the singing Sword. I think in

556
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: the Red Letter Media reviewed they're like, it gets a

557
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: little inconsistent at the end when he's doing all the

558
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: wacky bits to make the Weasels laugh themselves to death,

559
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: which is also horrifying when one of them tries to

560
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: cram his escaping soul back into his mouth. That is

561
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: one of the grimmest things I've ever seen in a

562
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: child's movie. But it's funny that it is actually consider

563
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: because in that shot of him with his brother, this

564
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: is the craft in this movie is so good. They

565
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: don't do a ton of over explaining about him. He

566
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: doesn't sit and like stare out the window and go,

567
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: oh god, my brother. Well, I mean he mentions it,

568
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: but like they do that thing where he goes back

569
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: to his office and starts drinking, and they do that long,

570
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: slow pan over all of the materials of him and

571
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: his brother, and you find out that they were vaudeville

572
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: kids clown And that's why I love that in scene

573
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: because Eddie Vllen has like suppressed all of his whimsy

574
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: and wackiness and he's such a grump. And then at

575
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: the end he's like mugging and doing the all the

576
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: all the clicks and stuff try to make the he's

577
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: getting in touch chefs with his inner himself. As you

578
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: meditate on that, we'll be right back with more too

579
00:30:45,120 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: much information after these messages have yet to talk about Roger,

580
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: who is deliberately one of the most annoying creations ever

581
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: put on screen. He is a design composite of all

582
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: the famous animation studios house styles at the time. He

583
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: has quote a Warner's face, a Disney body. Texts every attitude,

584
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: Goofy's overalls, Mickey Mouse's gloves and porky pigs bow tie.

585
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: Can you define a text every attitude that's interesting to me.

586
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: It's a genuine question. I don't know text Avery, I

587
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: think I mean he did Warner Brothers and MGM, he

588
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: created a load of them. I think it's mostly like

589
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: the frantic mugging and like all the Man seventeen thousand

590
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: bits a second. Like basically Robin Williams um animated Robert

591
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: Williams before Robin Williams. Uh yeah, and Richard Williams, who

592
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: is the supervising animator on this, who is another everyone

593
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: in this movies m v P. But he really just

594
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: went above and beyond for this. And he says he

595
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: based the Roger color model on the American flag, red overalls,

596
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: white body, and blue tie so that everyone would subliminally

597
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: like it. How that go over in Russia? We won

598
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: the Cold War with this movie. Um. He said that

599
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: he animated Roger's ears to reflect his emotional state and

600
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: whatever seeing that he was in and he wanted them

601
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: to move with the grace of ballet dancers, which is

602
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: one of those things that sounds insane until you watch

603
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: it again and they are moving like they look like, um,

604
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: look like seaweed moving underwater. They have this it's uh,

605
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: this is this is like the platonic ideal of animation

606
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: for me, Yeah, this is our second instance of animators

607
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: incorporating ballet movements another work Becau. Isn't the Disney team

608
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: study ballet dancers for Bell and her sort of graceful

609
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: movements and Beauty and the Beast? Yes, um, so there

610
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: is a bit of an acronism in this. Tom Cito,

611
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: who's an animator who worked on the film, said it

612
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: is it is said there's a Marquis or Chiron or

613
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: whatever that says it's ninety seven. And he said that

614
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: the reason they picked seven was that in seven is

615
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: for one, the actual year in which they decided to

616
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: scrap the street cars in l A. But it's also

617
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: the last year of Hollywood cartoons that he says were

618
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: unaffected by what he calls the U p A Revolution,

619
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: And it's when you get away from what he called

620
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: the Campbell's Soup model of animation, where all the characters

621
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: are like distinctly cherubic and and Rosie looking like snow

622
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: White's face, and into like more I guess, realistic or

623
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: more technically advanced cartoons. Up A was basically a renegade

624
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: studio that broke free of working at Disney and they

625
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: felt was the oppressive Disney House style. But that does

626
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: give rise to a number of anachronisms in this which

627
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. Roadrunner and Wildly Coyote are in there,

628
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: but they were not created at the time of the

629
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: movie was set. And there's another one when they're in

630
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: the theater right, Yes, that's right there watching a cartoon

631
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: short called Goofy Gymnastics which came out in nineteen forty nine,

632
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 1: and the filmmakers were aware of this, but they went

633
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: ahead and used it anyway because they thought it was

634
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: the best example of Goofy's visible comedy, which Roger was

635
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: a big admirer of. Yeah, man, I love the internal

636
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: logic that cartoons respect each other's craft. When he's like,

637
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: nobody takes a bump like Goofy or whatever. It's just, man,

638
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: it's so good if every frame of this movie is

639
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: crafted with beautiful love. Uh. Charles Flescher Fleischer who does

640
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: Roger Benny the Cab and then two of the weasels,

641
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: Greasy and Psycho, apparently took the additiontive to request a

642
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: life size rabbit suit to wear for his scenes. You

643
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: could see all of this on YouTube. He looks ridiculous.

644
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: He wore it every day to the set, and so

645
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: Disney exacts would look in on the shooting and also

646
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: see him in the commissaries and then be like, this

647
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: Roger Rabbitt picture looks like Yeah, I mean it looks

648
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: like something from like Party City, Like it really looks

649
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: super cheap. Yeah, I don't know why. I mean, you know,

650
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: it makes to me, it makes sense why he did that,

651
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: like to of her mind. The actors that he's he's

652
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: acting against, like what they're dealing with here, Yeah, because

653
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: you see the behind the scenes and they have all

654
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: the voice actors like standing out of frame and that

655
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: they're all these like schlubby dudes in like usc sweatshirts,

656
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: like doing these outrageous cartoon voices. And then there's Rung

657
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 1: in a life size rapid gusts like jumping up and down,

658
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: and he moves like a cartoon to I mean, he's

659
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: an interesting guy. I guess. Robertson Mecha saw him performing

660
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: stand up at the Comedy Store in l A and

661
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: was impressed with what he called his vocal presence, and

662
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: they initially hired him one word for it exactly, And

663
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: they initially hired him to just read the part of

664
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: Roger while they're auditioning actors for the part of Eddie Valiant,

665
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: you know, reading sides it's called. And ultimately they just

666
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: gave him the vocal role because he did such a

667
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: good job of that. While helping out with auditions for

668
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: Eddie and to come up with the voice, he recalled

669
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: a piece of advice that he'd received from an animation

670
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: director named Dick Williams, and Dick Williams said, all great

671
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: tunes have speech imbediments, that is characteristic vocal hook, and

672
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: that's where he upon the like, I can't do it.

673
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: I can't do anything. I tried. I tried to do it,

674
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: to bring it, to bring it to this episode, the

675
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: whole cheek flutter thing, and I guess animators literally had

676
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: to study Charles Flesher's mouth so that they could animate

677
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: the micro muscular movements he was doing when he would

678
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: do that. God love him exactly. Um and cap. Yeah, No,

679
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: there's no motion capture stuff. This was all like done

680
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: by hand. We'll get it this later. There's no c

681
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 1: G I anything in this movie. This is all done

682
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: by hand, which is insane. And Charles Flesher, the voice

683
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: of Roger, later said, of all the characters I've played,

684
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: he's the closest to me. Roger is there's a line

685
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: in the movie saying, I'm a tune. Tunes are supposed

686
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: to make people laugh, and working as a stand up

687
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: comic during the last fifteen years or so, that's the

688
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: job I've had. I think that's very Sweetie identifies with Roger. Yeah,

689
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: until you see even Zodiac and he's like that horrifying

690
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: guy at the end, he's like one of the Zodiac suspects.

691
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: And Jake Killet Hall goes in to his house and

692
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: it's like one of the creepiest scenes. He's our Lee

693
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: Allen or something, Arthur Lee out near the end of

694
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: the film. He's not Lee, the guy with the wah Yeah, yeah,

695
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: he's not that. He's he's another tangential figure that they

696
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: think he's like vaguely connected with it. And Jake Killenhill

697
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: goes to his house when it's like pouring outside and

698
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: it's like the James Gum scene and signs the lambs.

699
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: It's like his decrepit, freepy house and then him Yes,

700
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: that's Charles Flesher and Jake Kilan ages out of the basement.

701
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: He's like, not many people in California have a basement,

702
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: and he just looks at He's looking down at me,

703
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: just goes I do. Oh my god, there's something unsettling

704
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: to me about Charles Flesher. Do you think he's endearing.

705
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: I think he's horrified. Well, no, I don't think he's endearing.

706
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: I thought that quote was endaring, that he he as

707
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: somebody was a stand up for many years exactly. I

708
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: thought that was nice. Oh my god. I love Zodiac.

709
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: I know idea perfect film. Um yeah, so Bob Hoskins man,

710
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: what a saint on earth. You know, he's done Long

711
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: Good Friday at this point. He this just perfect, almost

712
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: the Tetris block of a Cockney gentleman. And you know,

713
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: Long Good Friday one of the arc typal British gangster movies.

714
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: And he's such a pitch perfect counterpoint to Roger and

715
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: has just this beautiful little arc. But holy did they

716
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: run through every single leading man in Hollywood before they

717
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: got this. Harrison Ford was Spielberg's original choice, but he

718
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: costs too much. I really sad that we missed out

719
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: on the like piste off exasperated, grumbling that Harrison Ford

720
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: would have done to the dad. I got a lot

721
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: of good memories about that dog. Chevy Chase was the

722
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: second choice, but he was not interested. Bill Murray was

723
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: also considered for the role, but he was not home

724
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: to pick up the phone to accept the offer, as

725
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: is his famous idiosyncratic habit of only accepting offers over

726
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: the phone and or a dedicated voicemail line. I believe,

727
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: and if it's full or he's not home, he just

728
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: doesn't get the role. And I guess he was like,

729
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: really heartbroken about this. He says that he found out

730
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: that he was up for consideration while reading a newspaper

731
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: interview with Spielberg years later, and he was reading this

732
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: newspaper in a public place, and when he learned that

733
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: they wanted him for the role and he just wasn't home.

734
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: I guess he screamed at the top of his lungs

735
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: in agony and public. But at least he got a

736
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: second chance to live out his cartoon fantasies in space

737
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: Jam a few years later. So truly the highest cold comfort.

738
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy has also expressed his regret since about turning

739
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: this role down and he would have been in because

740
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: Eisner had done forty eight hours. Oh yeah, right, because

741
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: that's why he h Joe Silver, Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly,

742
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: which we'll get to. Robin Williams, Robert Redford, Jack Nicholson,

743
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 1: so Vester Stalone, Wallace, Sean, what ed Harris? Which would

744
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: have been terrified, creepy and Harris just staring holes and

745
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: people through the whole movie. Charles Grodan, that would have

746
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: been great. I can see that. Don Lane, all considered,

747
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: and uh Wolf, Dick Wolf, No, that's lawn Order. Gary Wolf,

748
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: the creator of creator Roger Rabbit, the guy wrote the

749
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: book in his audition, Bob was the only one who

750
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: made us believe the rabbit was real. Ah, and nobody

751
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: has anything bad to say about Bob. On the shoot,

752
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: he had the most demanding role. He's in almost every scene,

753
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: shooting up to sixteen hours a day with either these

754
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: big creepy rubber mannequins or um just with robots that

755
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: they built to do these scenes. UM join a Cassidy

756
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: who plays Dolores, who has my favorite line reading in

757
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: the movie when he storms out of the bar and

758
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: she's like a tune killed his brother and they do

759
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: this perfectly timed pause and a slow push through. Mono

760
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: dropped a piano on his head and like, hits, it does,

761
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: it really does? Oh my god? But wait, what did

762
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: she say about about he was masterful? He had a

763
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: photogenic memory, He was a genius and had to be

764
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: to do this because the consistency you need to do

765
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: over multiple takes to get your site lines right, to

766
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: make sure your gestures are consistent. I mean, and how

767
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: did he prepare for this? Rold Jordan's I guess to

768
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: get the feel of acting with cartoon characters, he studied

769
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: his three year old daughter playing with her imaginary friends,

770
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: which I love. And also, uh, speaking of Bob Hoskins

771
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: and his kids and cartoons, I guess for two weeks

772
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: after seeing the final movie, his young son, who was

773
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: like two years old, wouldn't talk to him. And when

774
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: Bob Hoskins finally asked his son why he wasn't speaking

775
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: to him, his son said he couldn't believe his father

776
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: worked with cartoon characters like Bugs Bunny and didn't introduce him.

777
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: He wanted so badly to meet Bugs. Why didn't his

778
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: dad bring him over and introduce him? Now, this is

779
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever told you this. I

780
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: was on the set for Nutty Professor to and but

781
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: it was the movie Bumps the Clumps, and it was

782
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: the one with Eddie Murphy where he's playing all the

783
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: characters himself, and I was watching him film a scene

784
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 1: I forget. I haven't seen the movie in a million years,

785
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: but I think it was a scene when they were

786
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: having like a family dinner and he was supposed to

787
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: play all the family members and he was dressed as

788
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: Sherman in the big suit and all the other characters

789
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: that he was going to do later. They had tennis

790
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 1: balls on dowels labled to get the eyes, the sight

791
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: lines right and everything. It was so interesting. In the

792
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: Red Letter Media thing, they pulled this clip of Ian

793
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: McKellan on the set of one of the Lord of

794
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: the Rings having like like crying to himself softly because

795
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: he's in the Hobbit hole and he's just surrounded by

796
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: an ocean of green. I don't know why the Peter

797
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: Jackson let this get released, but it's like sad, eighty

798
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: year old Ian McKellan just like crying because he can't

799
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: act in this horrifying ocean acting he's actually broken down. Yeah, no,

800
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: he was like they were like take after take and

801
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: it's like him hunched over in this completely green screen set.

802
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: And he talks about it in in a Talking Hit interview.

803
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I like had a I reached my limit.

804
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: It's horrifying that they make that. They at least in

805
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: this movie, it was on real sets and they had

806
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: got to this point of where they're saying any of it. Yeah,

807
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: just Matt just would do it in a green box

808
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: and it will do it in post, you know. And

809
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: man the other bit. Dean Kundi is one of my

810
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: favorite for probably the guy who got me into like

811
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: actually learning about Roger Deakins and and other famous like cinematographers.

812
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: So he was John Carper NEWSDP. That's why I know him. Um.

813
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: But he talks about shooting in London. He says that

814
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: Bob Hoskins would come on the set and do Cockney

815
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: rhyming slang with all the other guys on the set,

816
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 1: which is just being adorable. It's all gone six and sevens.

817
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: This brings us to We've been We've been to Lang. Yeah,

818
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: we got to talk about Christopher Lloyd as Judge Doom

819
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Here we go. Long time listeners to the show,

820
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: We'll remember a tangent we went on in our first episode, Yes,

821
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 1: I think with hook Yeah yeah, where we debunked the

822
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: whole thing about Anthony Hopkins not blinking his Hannibal lecter.

823
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: He frequently blinks. Christopher Lloyd does not blink in this movie,

824
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: he said, quote. I felt like a tune doesn't have

825
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: to blink their eyes to remoisten their eyeballs, which is

826
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 1: a horrifying phrase. He said. It's on Twitter, and they're

827
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: not human. So I just felt Judge Doom should never blink.

828
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: It makes him even more ominous, more scary if he's

829
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: just looking like that. It wasn't really difficult. I just

830
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: keep my eyes open as long as I could, try

831
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: to time it out with the next take and all that. Sure,

832
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: man uh and then uh, you know, alluding directly to me,

833
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: he told Gizmoto. A lot of people have come up

834
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: to me since Roger Rabbott opened to say that they

835
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: saw the movie when they were kids and they had

836
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: nightmares afterwards. The first few Disney films, Bambi and Snow

837
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: White and The Seven Dwarves, etcetera. Each gave me nightmares too,

838
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: so I thought it was a reasonable payback. And people

839
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: have said it's kind of obvious that he's a tune.

840
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: It's not subtle, but most of his skin is covered

841
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: up and his clothes are kind of ill fitting and weird.

842
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: He's clearly wearing pancake makeup and has the horrifying ben

843
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: Affleck porcelain veneer teeth, like way too bright and squared off.

844
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: Did you ever hear about that they doing Armageddon? And

845
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Michael Bay took umbrage with ben Affleck's pre stardom teeth.

846
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: He was like, Yeah, we're doing all these low hero

847
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: shots of him, and his teeth look too small. He's

848
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: got baby teeth. Get those fixed. So he got like

849
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 1: porcelain veneers for the rest of it for the shoot.

850
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: Oh that's hilarious to me. Um. Also the fact that

851
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: I guess the dip is supposed to not be harmful

852
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 1: to humans, but then he has to wear Yeah, and

853
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: I never noticed this before until I was researching this.

854
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: Even in scenes indoors, his duster is like slightly blowing

855
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: in the wind, like a like a true cartoon villain. Ah,

856
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: so good. I guess Roberts a Megas keeps the stop

857
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: motion model of the flattened steamroll Judge Doom in his

858
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: office something to walk in on. Oh yeah, and now

859
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 1: we come to a yet another fernal it comes back again. Wow. Yeah.

860
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: The link between my childhood trauma to cartoon character and

861
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: yours is Tim Curry, which kind of makes a certain

862
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: amount of emotional spiritual sense. Uh. Tim Curry was an

863
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: early choice to play Judge Doom. While I haven't been

864
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: able to pin down exactly where this comes from, it's

865
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: been off repeated that he was just too terrifying for

866
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: the role, which if Hex's is any indication, which I believe.

867
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: They also told him to dive back and made him

868
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: redo some of the line readings. That's probably true. I

869
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: hope it's like Prince's Vault, where Tim Curry just keeps

870
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: all the test footage of him doing this that's too frightened,

871
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: way too far. Yeah. So instead of going with Tim Curry,

872
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: they tried to get Christopher Lee to do Judge Doom,

873
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: which would have probably been a lot scarier than Christopher Law,

874
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: one of the few people that would have been even scary. Yeah. No,

875
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: so that didn't work. Christopher Lee, I guess turned it

876
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: down and then on the other side of the coin.

877
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: I love this. John Clice expressed interest, but he was

878
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: turned down for not being scary enough, which makes a

879
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: lot of sense. He was in another movie in the Villain,

880
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: his run over with the steam roller, a fish called Wanda,

881
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: just making connections energy. I love that. Yeah. He was

882
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: also the one that they wanted to get to play

883
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: Hogsworth and Beauty and the Beast, but I turned it.

884
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: I think he was in Five Agoes West. I forget

885
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: what he chose Five AOEs West. I mean I think

886
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: so is that rescue was down under John Bird. No,

887
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:22,479
Speaker 1: I'm getting the Dead Parents sketchy alright, Moving on other

888
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: almost Judge Dooms, Peter O'Toole. That would have been good,

889
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 1: would be good if Murray Abraham as Roddy McDowell different

890
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: kind of scary, kind of weird, creepy. Yeah. Adson is

891
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: in I Want to Hold Your Hand The Early Um. Yeah,

892
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: he's kind of like a nerd character. I thought. I

893
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: think he's like, yeah, I don't know how that would

894
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: have gone and sting too scary. Well, he would have

895
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: been coming off of Dude Dune. Yeah, okay, I could

896
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: have seen that. I had read that Robin Williams was

897
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: also considered, but he was also up for any valiant

898
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: maybe too would have been just wanted to put him

899
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: in everything. Yeah, that's justifiable. Two other notes about Judge Doom.

900
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: He was originally supposed to be accompanied by a vulture

901
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: named Voltaire, and in an early draft I love this,

902
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: he was revealed to have been the hunter who killed

903
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: Bambi's mom. Yeah, I really love that. What a great

904
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: way to tie that back to this classic carriage. The

905
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: Sting thing is also funny. Sting maybe the guy with

906
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: the highest track record of being turned down for Disney musicals.

907
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: He was involved in the first version of The Emperor's

908
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: New Groove when it was supposed to be a full musical.

909
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: It's called like I don't think it was called The

910
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: Empire of the Sun. Isn't that the Spielberg that's the

911
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: Christian bale one. I think it was supposed to be

912
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,959
Speaker 1: way more focused on the Incan culture, and they brought

913
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: in Sting to do like a full like tim Rice

914
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: Elton John style score, and then like CANNEDID. I mean,

915
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: it's been done to death, but we should do that.

916
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: The making of that movie is incredible. But Sting also

917
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: wrote a song for this when Roger was originally going

918
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: to die in the movie in a shootout caught in

919
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: the Crossfire, and it's called The Lazarus Heart, and Disney

920
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: ordered the death scenes scrapped. The song was deleted, and

921
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: it ended up on Sting's album Nothing Like the Sun.

922
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: Not a good song. I'm guessing from the title The

923
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: Lazarus Heart that Roger rises from Yes, yes, yes, yes,

924
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: um here this will interest you. Regarding Judge Doom, he

925
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 1: may have his roots in episode of the popular radio

926
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: show Dick Tracy. Yes, there is an episode concerning a

927
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: man named JP Doom who's described as quote a shady

928
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: character mixed up in politics, and his whole thing is

929
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: that he's illegally trying to buy up real estate to

930
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: be used for a super highway, and he does this

931
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: by directing a gang of idiotic goons. It's unclear if

932
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: this is a coincidence, but the characters follow many parallels,

933
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: including their ultimate fate of getting killed, so I can

934
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: only imagine. I feel like there are no accidents in

935
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: this movie. I feel like it has Yeah, the weiz old, stupid, smartass, greasy, wheezy,

936
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: and Psycho aur Rips on the Seven Dwarves. I love

937
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: the one that's wearing the zoot suit, which is again

938
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: also a period accurate thing because like the Cherry Pop

939
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: and Daddy's songs zoot suit riots, it's based on a

940
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: real racially motivated incident. Zoot Suits were very popular in

941
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: the Latin Chicano population in l A. And there was

942
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: a whole incident where there was like this I think

943
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: bar fight that was like really blown out of proportion,

944
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 1: and so at one point the navy bunch of sailors

945
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: were going on and trying to beat up dudes and

946
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: zoot suits, and then police were called and it turned

947
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: into like a full scale, like actual riot in l A.

948
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: The zoot suit riot was a very real thing and

949
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: tremendously racially motivated. Uh. Two of them, Slimy and Sleazy,

950
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: were written out of the script and mentioned. I also

951
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: forgot that the racist crows from they are the jazz musicians,

952
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: which is kind of but I love that. I love

953
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: the one shot of them, uh, And there's two of

954
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: them playing the upright bass stacked on top of each other.

955
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: One is lucking and one is fretting. Because they wouldn't

956
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,479
Speaker 1: have been tall enough for it. Again, it's the little things.

957
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: It's up there with The Truman Show in terms of

958
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: just world building. Yes, exactly, it's really incredible. Jordan tell

959
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: us about Jessica Rabbit. Yes, the inimitable Jessica Rabbit was

960
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: based in the book at least on a Texas Avery

961
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 1: cartoon character named Red in Red Hot Riding Hood. Gross. Yeah,

962
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't like that. And for the movie, the animation

963
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: director Richard Williams added elements of Rita Hayworth in the

964
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: movie Gilda and Veronica Lake for the very distinctive peekaboo

965
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: hair do, and at the suggestion of director Robert Zemeckis,

966
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: he based her on Lauren McCall as well. Her outfits

967
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: were also inspired by those worn by the model Vicky Dugan,

968
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: who is famous for wearing these dresses that were super

969
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: low cut in the back in the early fifties. And

970
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: they're all these famous photos in Life magazine of her

971
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: walking down the street and every head is turned in

972
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: her direction. You've probably seen them in pretty famous photos.

973
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: Her speaking lines were delivered by an uncredited Kathleen Turner,

974
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 1: who was nine months pregnant at the time, and her

975
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: singing voice was done by Amy Irving, who was Steven

976
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: Spielberg's wife at the time, and Bob Hoskins claimed that

977
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: the character design wasn't finalized by the time that they

978
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: were filming. So samech has just told him to imagine

979
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: his ideal sexual fantasy. Bangers of Mash play the Bangers

980
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: of Mash and uh and he so he says that

981
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: he that was his direction, your ideal sexual fantasy, and

982
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: then he claimed that the character designed was sexier than

983
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: what he came up with. Pa, Pa, It's it's just ridiculous. Um.

984
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: You know, there's a ton of boob jokes. People keep

985
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: bumping into her boobs. She pulls out the bear trap

986
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: and or the bear trap comes out of her cleavage.

987
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: At one point he says, that's a great booby trap,

988
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: which is hilarious to an eight year old um. And

989
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: they animated her so that her breasts bounce against gravity

990
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: as she walks. Just ridiculous. Man. I I wasn't gonna

991
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: get into this, but it feels the completest that made

992
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 1: would feel wrong if we didn't. There's a popular inner

993
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: at myth regarding Jessica Rabbit and uh what I'll just say,

994
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: is brief nudity during the scene where Benny the cab crashes,

995
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: and we won't really get into it here. Google it

996
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: if you're you know, if if pen and ink is

997
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: your kink um. And as you might expect, there are

998
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: websites that go frame by frames studying this scene as

999
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: if it were as a Pruder film, which is sad

1000
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: um and it's reportedly been removed from the DVD release,

1001
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: but Roger Rabbit creator Gary Wolf has confirmed this in

1002
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: an interview with the author Jim Davies, and uh, well,

1003
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: let's just say there's mounting evidence that the animators have

1004
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: a touch of the purv. He says that there's also

1005
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 1: brief subliminal nudity involving Betty Boop in this movie as well,

1006
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: but it's actually an homage to the original nineteen thirties

1007
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: cartoon clips and this is his quote. The animators wanted

1008
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: to do an homage two Flesher's Betty Boop. He had

1009
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: her topless in every movie for six frames, invisible to

1010
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: the human eye. So they did the same with her

1011
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: and Roger Rabbit. And when we decided to release the

1012
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: film on video, the producer went on Johnny Carson and

1013
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: spilled the beans, so we were forced to take it out. However,

1014
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: there are numerous other spicy numbers which remain. This is

1015
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: still his quote, you have to find them yourself. My

1016
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: favorite is that he claims that among the many other

1017
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: rest eggs in this movie, they inserted Michael Eisner's home

1018
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: phone number into the movie, they have Allison wonder It's

1019
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: like in a bathroom scene they have for a good

1020
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,959
Speaker 1: time called Alison Wonderland, and maybe it's that phone number.

1021
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's funny because I guess they

1022
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: figured it wouldn't show with the frame rate. And then

1023
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: when LaserDiscs came out, that was the first thing where

1024
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: you could go to names and they didn't count on

1025
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: the power of horny men and home media, um and

1026
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: a lot of free time. Anyways, since Jessica is the

1027
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: most human looking, which is a stretch but still of

1028
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: the tunes, it would have been very easy for them

1029
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: to have had a real actress play the role. And

1030
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: then they would have rotoscoped, which is a really interesting

1031
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: early technology where they paint directly on the film strips,

1032
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: incredibly time consuming. Famously, the thing I have to repeat

1033
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: every time I say the word rotoscope what Martin Scorsese

1034
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: used to paint over Neil Young's coke booger in The

1035
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: Last Walls um. But so they consciously give her that

1036
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: ridiculous waistline so that they animation joke. They painted themselves

1037
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: into a corner, uh, so that they couldn't have used

1038
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: a real woman in there. So they wanted to prove

1039
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: that they had a rotoscope to anybody, and which I

1040
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,919
Speaker 1: guess they thought was cheating, which sounds just as hard

1041
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: to me. It's it's there's a tremendous amount of hubris

1042
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: that they baked into this movie. We'll talk about it

1043
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: in a second, where they were like, here's all the

1044
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: rules we're going to break. Yes, God love them. You

1045
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: know you mentioned earlier that when they were filming the

1046
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: live action scenes, the character designed for Jessica Rabbit wasn't

1047
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: fully completed yet, and you can see an early version

1048
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: of her character in the scene where Roger Rabbit is

1049
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: looking at the photos that Eddie Valiant took of Jessica

1050
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: Rabbit playing Patty Cake. And those photos were, you know,

1051
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: real photos that the live action actors had to handle

1052
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: in the movie. So they had to use that while

1053
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: the live action stuff was being filmed, even though the

1054
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: animators had an animador yet. So you actually see when

1055
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: you look at those pictures in the movie, she actually

1056
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 1: looks a little different. She almost looks like Ariel from

1057
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 1: a Little Mermaid. She looks very different because there's an

1058
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: area like fourteen. Yeah, weird but Disney. Yeah. Also, while

1059
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: on the topic of Roger Rabbitt and photos, there's the

1060
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: photo that Roger has in his wallet that shows him

1061
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: sitting with Jessica at a restaurant that's supposed to be

1062
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: the Brown Derby, and there's a lot of their brown

1063
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: Derby was famous for having portraits of its famous clientele

1064
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: up on the New Yorker style caricatures. Yeah. Yeah, And

1065
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 1: in this picture, if you pause it, you can see

1066
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: that the portraits behind them in this restaurant are Roger

1067
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,439
Speaker 1: himself as well as Mickey Mouse, and there are sort

1068
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: of anonymous looking people, and those people are the filmmakers

1069
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 1: associated with this movie. I think robertson Mexas is in there,

1070
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: possibly Spielberg and some of the other designers. Yeah, and

1071
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: we have blued it earlier how these guys were just

1072
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: like here's how everyone for the past fifty years of

1073
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: filmmaking has done this that they didn't. They literally have

1074
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: a meeting where he was like, yeah, you know, so

1075
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: there are fifty years of doing this, this is what

1076
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: we've learned not to do. And so yeah, so you this,

1077
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and keep this as non nerd as possible.

1078
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: So Mekasine Dean Cundy go in to early meetings in

1079
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: this film, and Disney's like, all right, you know they

1080
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: had been doing there's a famous Mary Poppin scene right,

1081
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: that's them interacting with cartoons on the carousel horses. There's

1082
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: a lot of other early Disney movies that did technically

1083
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: combine live action and animation, but they had all these rules.

1084
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: It's like, you gotta do it with the locked camera,

1085
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: can't move, can't do close ups, can't do depth of field,

1086
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: don't get fancy with the lighting shadows, don't do anything

1087
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: that would take too much work for the animators. And

1088
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: then Cundy says he tucked in the rap inen. When

1089
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: Bob and I left the meeting, we said, well, those

1090
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: are the rules were going to break. How are we

1091
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: going to do it? Um? So they enlist this guy.

1092
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: Animation supervisor Richard Williams to do this test sequence that

1093
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: would literally show them breaking every single one of those rules,

1094
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: in which Joe Panaliano Joey Pants stars as Eddie from

1095
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: The Suppress and the dick head in The Matrix. Oh

1096
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: my god, the most relatable character in The Matrix. Rewatching

1097
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: that movie in two where he elects to not live

1098
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: in the real world anymore, wants to be put back

1099
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: into the simulation. Yeah, anyway, And isn't he in Goonies too?

1100
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: Is any one of the hotelities? Maybe I asked them

1101
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: too long sept seen Goodies? I mean famously he's the

1102
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 1: bad guy in Risky Business back when he had hair right.

1103
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, he was in the Goodies too. Joey Pants. Yeah.

1104
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: So in that scene, Roger comes down a stairway and

1105
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: a back alley, walks in and out of shadow, and

1106
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: the camera tracks him, and there's interactivity with the trash cans.

1107
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: All the things we were told were difficult or impossible.

1108
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: That's Cundy again. He's talking to Gizmoo. It was so

1109
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: encouraging and so successful that Disney looked at it and said,

1110
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: this is going to be very expensive and time consuming.

1111
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: Let's go for it. That's what I heard said about

1112
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: this show. We're going to take a quick break, but

1113
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more too much information and

1114
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: just a moment. So the actual workflow for this movie

1115
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: five month live action shoot which happens in London, and

1116
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: during this there's so much great behind the scenes footage

1117
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: in this. They have dummies, so they have like these

1118
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: weird like rubber stand ins, like there's a rubber roger

1119
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: and whenever they have to like man handle them move

1120
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: them around, and they use all these early animatronics that

1121
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: look like these erector set things that were controlled by

1122
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: guys with actual armature, like the sea when Rogers breaking

1123
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: the plates over his head, that's a robot arm and

1124
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: they use a bunch of these. How do they get

1125
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: it out? How do they just animated over it? And

1126
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: that's that's the compositing process over this is so nuts.

1127
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: The club scene is essentially like a three layered set.

1128
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: It's built eight feet off the ground so that guys

1129
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: could run under it, holding the drink trays on these

1130
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: long rods through channels that were cut in the floor.

1131
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: Those are the drink trays that the penguin waiters are

1132
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: running around with and then there's also a layer on

1133
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: top of it so that they could hold on strings

1134
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: like the Octopus bartender. They're holding all of those glasses

1135
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: and stuff on strings. That is the same puppeteer, David

1136
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: Allen Barclay who puppeteer job of the Hut in Return

1137
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: of the Jedi. It's wild, It's just every bit of

1138
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: this is insane. He's standing on beams above the set

1139
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: doing all of this. Richard Williams, the supervising animator, said

1140
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: he was openly disdainful of the Disney bureaucracy and refused

1141
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: to work in London, so they established his studio in

1142
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: Camden Town to shoot all the live action, which was

1143
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: done in Elstree Studio, and Cundy called shooting there probably

1144
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: the hardest part of it because it was so cold.

1145
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: The winter was one of the coldest they've had in

1146
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: about forty years. Was fifteen to twenty degrees when they

1147
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: shot this. The building was not insulated or heated and

1148
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: fun fact, the entrance to Desilu Studios, the I Love

1149
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: Lucy Studios that Lucy and Desi set up is the

1150
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: fictional Maroon Cartoons studio A lot. I don't think we

1151
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: have a running. I love Lucy count but we should

1152
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: I don't have the Hanks. We've had no Hanks sightings

1153
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: in this one. Was Hanks not considered for Yeah, so yeah.

1154
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: Before the animation even happen, Zamache's would sit Richard Williams

1155
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: down with rough cuts of the scenes, the dailies and

1156
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: describe what was going to happen. You can watch him

1157
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: do this. He Williams is sitting there with a sketchpad,

1158
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: and Zamaica's is going, Okay, Bob's gonna take Roger and

1159
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, force him down into his trench coat. And

1160
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: you see him furiously sketching this stuff out like as

1161
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: it's being described to him. And then when the animation

1162
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: team took over, they were given monochrome prints of the

1163
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: still frames of the live shots, every single frame of

1164
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: this movie that they would put under essentially tracing paper,

1165
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: so that they could animate each individual frame over all

1166
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: of the existing live shots, which are then photographed one

1167
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: frame minute time and sent to ILM to be composited

1168
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: fifty five minutes of animated shots eighty two thousand animated

1169
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: cells as part of a hundred and four minute movie.

1170
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: Fourteen months of post production was something like three D

1171
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 1: twenty six. Full time animators said there were fifteen hundred

1172
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: composite shots because it's almost essentially like almost a full

1173
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: length animated film plus a full length live action film.

1174
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: It's just wild. Yeah, it's like fourteen months of post

1175
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: production sounds short because I mean don't Disney features take

1176
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: like two years. Wow, So I mean that's I guess

1177
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: they don't have to do all the backgrounds and stuff.

1178
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: But still that's insane. And it's important to reiterate here

1179
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: that there is no computer animated anything in this movie.

1180
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: And I guess it was briefly discussed, but the technology

1181
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: at the time was too primitive and it just what

1182
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: they did have available would have looked way out of

1183
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: style for the nineteen forties aesthetic that they had in

1184
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: the rest of the movie. Uh Eddie Valley. It's initial

1185
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,959
Speaker 1: thirty seconds stroll through the Maroon Cartoons studios was so

1186
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 1: complex that it involved over one hundred eighty individual elements,

1187
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: and when it was assembled with the film pieces, it

1188
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: created an eight foot tall staff of animation cells for

1189
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: thirty seconds of animation. I mean, just you talk about

1190
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: all the composite stuff. There were some moments in the

1191
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: film where with effects layers with you know, it's a

1192
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: layer done for the cartoon carricter, a layer done for shadows.

1193
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: Is all separate layers. There would sometimes be six hundred

1194
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: separate drawings that were required for one second of animation.

1195
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: It's insane. It's ridiculous that you mentioned the wallet scene.

1196
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: The way that that looks with the red lighting coming

1197
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: in and he's also backlit by the lighting from the

1198
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: club and he's in shadow. Were they on to think

1199
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: that a good idea? Yeah, that's true. One of the

1200
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: guiding principles that they have was that the animated character

1201
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: should always be interacting with real elements so that they

1202
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: didn't have that pasted on flat look. They love to

1203
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: prove I mean again, Jessica rabbit looking like a human

1204
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: who could never exist, so they couldn't be accused of

1205
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: rhotoscoping an actual human, taking the quote easy way out. No,

1206
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: we're only gonna have cartoons. We're gonna have them in

1207
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: weird lighting, interacting with real life stuff so that dust

1208
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: would fly up. It would not only be animated. We

1209
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: will also give her a sequined dress in a nightclub,

1210
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: which they apparently did by filtering light through a plastic

1211
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: bag that they scuffed up with steel wool. Yeah, they said,

1212
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 1: if the rabbit sits down in an old chair, dust

1213
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: should come up. They should always be interacting with real objects.

1214
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: You know. When the weasels barge in and one of

1215
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: them is holding like a real pistol, it's aimed at

1216
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: the camera and then it pivots left and pivots right

1217
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: on strings that they they animated around again. They flew

1218
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: too close to the sun, but they did not crash.

1219
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: The only thing that isn't in this movie the like

1220
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: the bit of Hollywood trickery that's not in it. There

1221
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: are no Ma paintings. Explain what those are. I'm not

1222
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: sure Matt paintings are. Like it's basically a hyper detailed

1223
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: illustration that they use real projection to compose it into

1224
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: a film. So like the classic one is um in

1225
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones when they wheel the Ark of the Covenant

1226
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: into the government warehouse and you see all the hundreds

1227
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: of other things that the government has like stockpiled. That's

1228
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: a matte painting. It's just a big, super detailed illustration

1229
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: that serves as a background when it would be impractical

1230
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: to shoot one. Um. Yeah, he said, they made it

1231
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 1: through the entire production. They're like, Oh, we don't have

1232
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: a Matt painting. Should we put one in? And he

1233
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: was like, ah, I have a question for you about

1234
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: the blending of animation go on and live action humans. Uh.

1235
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: The scene where Eddie Valiant is riding around in Benny

1236
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: the cab, he's animated in some of those shots, is

1237
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: that because it was just I think there were some

1238
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: cheats in there. The Red Letter media guys again point

1239
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: out a few where there's just like people missing in

1240
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: certain pans. I think Jessica's hand is actually rhodoscope when

1241
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: she grabs Eddie's tie, because I think there was certain

1242
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: things where they were just like, you can't get they

1243
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: ran out of cocaine. They were just like, we can't

1244
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: do this anymore. But they there's now a term at

1245
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: Disney among the animators inspired by this movie. They used

1246
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 1: the term bumping the lamp because there's that scene where

1247
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: they burst into the prohibition hiding room in Dolores's bar.

1248
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: They're so handcuffed together at that point, Eddie's interrogating Roger

1249
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: and they bump the overhead lamp and it starts swinging around.

1250
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: So between animating all the physical parts and the lighting

1251
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: on there, and all the shadows are consistent across the

1252
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: characters with all the textures of them. That's what Disney

1253
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: animators now use for any time that they have to

1254
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: go above and beyond. They call it bumping the lamp

1255
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: because by bumping the lamp, you would have to make

1256
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: these wild and consistent shadows on these animated characters in there,

1257
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: just that random because the things swinging around wildly, and

1258
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: I LM actually built the cameras that they had to make.

1259
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: And this is gonna get a little in the weeds.

1260
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and explain it as best I can.

1261
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,439
Speaker 1: When you composite illustrated aspects onto live film, it's called

1262
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: optical printing, right where you essentially paste the image over

1263
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: the film. And what that creates is like you start

1264
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: seeing all what they call the artifacts, like the grain

1265
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: of the film, and the image starts to degrade from

1266
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: the printing process, and then you see this in you

1267
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: know again, Mary Poppins is the biggest one that I

1268
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 1: can think of. So they shot in Vista vision, which

1269
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 1: is this archaic and I guess it wasn't archaic. It

1270
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: was probably cutting edge of the time. These cameras that

1271
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: are developed by Paramount in the nineteen fifties that essentially

1272
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: capture an image twice as large as standard film camera,

1273
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: so that when then that's compositive at I l M

1274
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: and printed down, all of those other grain and the

1275
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: weird colors that's gone. And what Kundi says is they

1276
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 1: used twice as much film but got twice the clarity

1277
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 1: and sharpness. This is why they ended up with sacks

1278
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: of film eight feet tall. But the original cameras from

1279
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 1: Paramount had been scrapped because I guess it was too

1280
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: expensive or not needed or whatever. So I LM just

1281
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: built a new set of them from scratch. Again, so

1282
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: much cocaine, so much hubris, Like, how are we going

1283
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: to do this? Have George build him? And yeah, so this,

1284
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: obviously we talked about. This was so ungodly expensive. Budget

1285
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: was hacked from fifty mill projected down to thirty ticks

1286
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: up to forty. Michael Eisner is like, you know, let's

1287
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,520
Speaker 1: maybe pull the plug on this, and uh, Jeffrey Katzenberg,

1288
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: enemy of the program, actually intervenes. I never expected to

1289
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: say good for Jeffrey Katzenberg. But speaking of Michael Eisner.

1290
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 1: It's off repeated that Joel Silver's cameo is the director

1291
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: of the Baby Herman short at the beginning of the

1292
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: movie was a jab at Eisener because there have been

1293
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: bad blood between the two ever since they had butted

1294
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 1: heads making forty eight Hours. Joel Silver shaved his beard,

1295
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: kept his name off the cash sheets, and even paid

1296
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: his own way to be in this movie. And when

1297
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: Eisner was told that it was Silver, because I guess

1298
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: he didn't recognize him at first, he reportedly shrugged and

1299
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: said he was pretty good. We could get into there.

1300
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 1: I actually don't know much about too much about this either.

1301
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: I think it was so Walter Hill, who did The Warriors,

1302
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure so when he came to fourty eight Hours,

1303
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a little more gritty, and I

1304
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: guess Eisner he was just like up their asses when

1305
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: they were making this up, Joel Silver and Walter Hill

1306
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: being like, it's not funny enough. It's not funny enough.

1307
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: You gotta let Eddie Murphy off the leash. He's got

1308
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: to do more. You've got to write more jokes, Reddie Murphy,

1309
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 1: you gotta write more jokes for Nick Nolty. Just like

1310
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: in Daili's and uh Hill said they rewrote Murphy's character

1311
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 1: right down to the last Dave shooting based on Eisner's interference.

1312
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: I guess with it, which good lord. So that's why

1313
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 1: he plays this like Harry director, who's just like screaming,

1314
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 1: all right, baby, you were great, You were great, You

1315
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: were great. Roger. Um, I don't think too much in

1316
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 1: the score for this Alan Silvestri iconic film composer. I mean, admittedly,

1317
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: it was probably a very big technical challenge to kind

1318
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: of merged the like a late night jazz and war

1319
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of vibe with the these car earl stalling insane Yeah,

1320
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: all the all the all the tune cues, coked up

1321
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: carnival music. Yeah, exactly. Um. I just think this is

1322
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: interesting that that when Jessica Rabbit, not for her musical number,

1323
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: but when she's like strolling through scenes, they just had

1324
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of like jazz session guys in the and

1325
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: they were just like, I improvise it. So they just

1326
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: do all this like sultry burlesque sexy sacks songs. I mean,

1327
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: and I mean this in the most respectful way. She

1328
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 1: moves like a metronome. Yeah, I mean from the exactly.

1329
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 1: It's like when James Jamerson talks about the Motown bassist,

1330
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: I think it's the Bernard Debt or reach Out I'll

1331
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: be there with has that famous bass break we could

1332
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 1: boom boom, he said. They were like, how did you

1333
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: come up with that? He was like, I thought about

1334
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: a woman's butt moving down the street. Speaking of the music,

1335
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: there's a funny story behind the song that's sung at

1336
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: the end of the movie by all the cartoons. It's

1337
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: like kind of the fade out number. It's an old

1338
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: Mary Melody's chestnut from one called Smile, Darnia Smile. I

1339
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: know the producers, like I said, hired a professional singing

1340
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: group to record it, but it sounded too polished into

1341
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: tame and not you know, raucous and cartoony enough. So

1342
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 1: at the rat party for Roger Rabbit in March of

1343
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: they miked up the room and had the entire cast

1344
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: and crew just warble their way through the song. And

1345
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: I guess each crew member was paid one pound, which

1346
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: is a little more than a dollar for their singing contribution,

1347
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: and everybody to sign a waiver at this party, and

1348
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: that's what you're hearing at the very end well fittingly,

1349
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: we come to the end of the film and the

1350
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: insane production process and you get into test screening land.

1351
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 1: Jordan tell us about the test screenings was movie. Yes,

1352
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 1: early test screenings did not go well, probably because they

1353
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,599
Speaker 1: were really marketing this towards older teenagers, and I guess

1354
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: a lot of them actually walked out because the whole

1355
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 1: thing is that opening cartoon. They were like, what the

1356
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: hell is this? Well, I mean, this will at least

1357
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 1: make you happy. Roberts to Mecas later said that the

1358
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: Disney chairman, Jeffrey Katzenberg said that he saw his life

1359
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,919
Speaker 1: flash before his eyes after these extremely poorly reviewed test screenings.

1360
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 1: Spent fifty bail on a picture. Kids are walking out

1361
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: of the test screening, but it made Latzenberg unhappy, So

1362
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: there you go. Yes, yes, count that as a win.

1363
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: Uh So. Michael Eisner and roy E Disney, the vice

1364
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: chairman of Disney, thought the film was too adult, but again,

1365
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: Robert mckis had final cut on the movie and it

1366
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: refused to make any changes, So, along with Jeffrey Katzenberg,

1367
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 1: they decided to release it under the Touchstone Pictures Marquee

1368
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 1: under Walt Disney Pictures. Which is kind of Disney's more

1369
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 1: adult banner. It should say. Uh. And the thing that

1370
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: I actually hadn't really considered about making this movie was

1371
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: that editing the final composite print was basically impossible. Yeah,

1372
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 1: that's probably why he was like, do I get final cut?

1373
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:56,520
Speaker 1: Because again, yeah, it's probably why he was extremely reluctant

1374
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: to make any changes to the final cut. Animation was done,

1375
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: specifically the live action scenes that were already shot and

1376
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: dialogue that had already been recorded. They couldn't do reshoots

1377
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: or use alternative takes because that would mean reanimating everything,

1378
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: and that just would have been prohibitibly expensive and at

1379
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,600
Speaker 1: least a year of delays, you know, I mean something insane.

1380
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 1: And I guess cutting out even a part of a

1381
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: scene for timing would have screwed everything up and they

1382
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 1: would have had to just lose the entire scene wholesale.

1383
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: So there really wasn't much to be done after the

1384
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 1: final composite print was made of this movie. It was

1385
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: editing it was just kind of impossible. Um. An even

1386
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: more granular level, the title of the movie. Many people

1387
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: have you know you and I are both copy editors

1388
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: or have spent a lot of time copy editing. Many

1389
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 1: people have justifiably asked, why is there no question mark

1390
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: at the end of the film's title? Who framed Roger Rabbit?

1391
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,679
Speaker 1: On the DVD commentary, Robert Semeka starts to say, everyone

1392
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: said you don't put question marks. He's yeah, he's talking

1393
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: to the screenwriters, and someone's like, oh yeah, people kept

1394
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: pointing out to us, like, you guys wrote this without

1395
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: a question marking the title, And he says, everyone said

1396
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: that you don't put question marks, and then someone cuts

1397
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 1: them off. But there's like the implicit statement in there,

1398
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: because I guess there's like a Hollywood superstition about question

1399
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,719
Speaker 1: marks in movie titles. I could. I don't know everything

1400
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: I googled with just circles back to this, so I

1401
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: don't know where that comes from. But yeah, I mean

1402
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: you've mentioned that there's whatever happened to Baby Jane Who's

1403
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: afraid of Virginia Wolf? And they shoot horses, don't they?

1404
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: Those are all classic movies that have the question mark.

1405
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 1: And then there's also modern big movies that you know,

1406
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: I have a question mark in the title. What about

1407
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: Bob a Brother? Where art thou dude? Where's my car?

1408
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: That's cinematic class really among us? In what other paragraph

1409
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: would you have Who's afraid of Virginia? Wolf? And Dude,

1410
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 1: where's my car? Spoken in t M I guarantee. I

1411
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: guess there was a similar thing with who Wants to

1412
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 1: Be a Millionaire? Um? I think the British version as

1413
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: a question mark, and when they brought it over to

1414
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,679
Speaker 1: America they took the question mark. I guess it's supposed

1415
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: to be a statement and producers said, this is not

1416
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: a question who wants to Maybe in our the answer

1417
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 1: is everyone. Yeah. Anyway, So, speaking of on screen titles

1418
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 1: and credits, the credit sequence for who Frames Roger Rabbit?

1419
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 1: I guess broke the record for the longest end credits ever. Huh.

1420
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 1: They ran nearly seven minutes. I haven't timed it myself,

1421
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 1: but I've seen some sources say it went actually up

1422
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: to ten minutes. And they're crediting a cast and crew

1423
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 1: of some seven hundred and forty three people, including three

1424
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty six full time animators. But again, no

1425
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 1: credit for Kathleen Turner for voicing Jessica Rabbit. Why was

1426
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: she uncredited? I don't know, man, I wonder if it

1427
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: was a contract pin because she had just been in

1428
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: Romancing the Stone. Yeah, I don't know either way. Zamecha's

1429
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: faith in the film being released as is paid off.

1430
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 1: Took in eleven point two million it's opening weekend first

1431
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: place finished at the U S Box Office. It's worldwide

1432
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: gross was three hundred twenty nine point eight million, which

1433
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 1: made it, at the time of its release, the twentieth

1434
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: highest grossing film of all time, and that year, the

1435
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: only thing that came in higher was rain Man Favorite

1436
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 1: of Yours uh twelve minutes to Wapner In the United Kingdom,

1437
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 1: the film also set a record opening for any Disney

1438
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 1: movie period. Now, I'm not a Disney historian, but I

1439
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: play one on tv UM, so I should really tread

1440
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: lightly in saying this, But I've read that who Framed

1441
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 1: Rodger Rabbit basically saved the Disney animation studio and helped

1442
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: pave the way for the Disney Renaissance of the nineties.

1443
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,919
Speaker 1: Before Roger Rabbit, Disney's animated films had kind of been flopping.

1444
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: They hadn't had a hit since The Fox and the

1445
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 1: Hound in the early eighties. Black Cauldron was a financial disaster.

1446
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 1: In six is The Great Mouse Detective barely made its

1447
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: money back. Great movie, yeah, it is a great movie,

1448
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:44,719
Speaker 1: but audiences didn't think so. I know. Uh So, Disney

1449
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 1: was in the midst of cutting back projects around the

1450
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: time of Roger Rabbit, and apparently they were seriously considering

1451
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,680
Speaker 1: shutting down their animation department altogether, at least according to

1452
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: sources I've read. I mean again, in the eighties, I'm

1453
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: thinking of like live action stuff like I don't know

1454
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: why this is the first one that comes to mind,

1455
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,839
Speaker 1: but like Flighter than the Vigator. Maybe they were pivoting

1456
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 1: to those kind of live acts and things are Freaky Friday.

1457
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 1: But then they made this deal with Steven Spielberg's Ambulance

1458
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 1: Entertainment to co produce who framed Roger Rabbit, and the

1459
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: success of that movie helped convince them to continue to

1460
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 1: invest in animation. Yeah, and then a little Mermaids eighty

1461
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,719
Speaker 1: nine and then we're off to the races exactly called

1462
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: the Disney Renaissance, so the second Golden Age of Disney

1463
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um critics mostly love the film, although I

1464
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that Chuck Jones did not. He's on the

1465
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: record is not liking this film. Chuck Jones like the

1466
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 1: famous Lunar Tuns director that why doesn't he like it?

1467
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: He just said, I think I read something. He thought

1468
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: it was like disrespectful to cartoons and lacked a fundamental

1469
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 1: understanding of cartoons. Yes, that is, well, let'll do it.

1470
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's the line. Um. But yeah, I again,

1471
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 1: I'm um. I just think Bob Hoskins just a hero's

1472
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: work in this film, and he was not nominated for

1473
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: an Academy Award. He probably wouldn't have won because the

1474
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 1: it's just too light for the Oscars, but he should

1475
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: have been nominate in my educated opinion. Uh. They did

1476
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: win though, for Editing, Sound Effects, and Visual Effects, which

1477
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: is I think sort of the Big three of technical awards, right,

1478
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: It's like that like production design, maybe wardrobe and Yes, folks,

1479
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:16,680
Speaker 1: it is in the Library of Congress Film Archive. I

1480
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: guess Bob Hoskins uh sort of understandably how to take

1481
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: a year off from acting after doing Roger Rabbit to

1482
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: just recuperate from the experience, and he later said, I

1483
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 1: had to learn to hallucinate to do Roger Rabbit. After

1484
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: doing it for six months for sixteen hours a day,

1485
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: I had lost control of it and sort of had

1486
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: weasels and rabbits popping out of the wall of me.

1487
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 1: Um God. All right, so now we get into sequel territory.

1488
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: This is truly insane. As early as eighty nine, apparently J. J. Abrams,

1489
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: one of my least favorite modern directors, wrote an outline

1490
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: for full length sequel, considering half his career is just

1491
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 1: doing just sketch versions of better movies that came before him.

1492
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine how badly that must have sucked. All

1493
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,040
Speaker 1: Abrams fanboys are going to come after me for that.

1494
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 1: But there were a few different shorts that they made

1495
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:04,639
Speaker 1: starring Roger. They did kind of go back to the well.

1496
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 1: Then they would just get thrown out as like teasers

1497
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 1: or in front of other Disney features and eight nine,

1498
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: and then they shut down four in like mid production.

1499
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: But the feature length treatment that was pitched for this

1500
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: was called Roger Rabbit Tune Platoon, and it would have

1501
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 1: been a prequel a World War two movie in which

1502
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: Tunes fight Nazis. Jessica Rabbit is kidnapped and forced to

1503
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 1: make pro Nazi German broadcasts. At the end of the movie,

1504
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 1: you discover bugs Bunny is Roger Rabbit's dad. That's a

1505
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: great twist. That's a great star Wars and pivot. The

1506
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: thing that I read is that they pivot after this

1507
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: reveal and he says, g and I a stinker because

1508
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: the whole movie is also I forgot even foreground this.

1509
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: The movie is about Roger Rabbit try and find out

1510
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 1: who his dad is. The Nazi stuff is secondary. At

1511
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: the end they pivot to bugs Bunny being his dad

1512
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 1: and he says, G A and I is stinker. Ridiculous. Yeah.

1513
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: I guess Spielberg decided the back out of doing this

1514
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 1: World War two era Rodger Rabbit movie because he had

1515
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: just done Schindler's List and he probably needed a break

1516
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 1: from Nazis in general, and he really didn't feel good

1517
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: about doing a comedic Nazi movie after that. Yes, so

1518
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:14,639
Speaker 1: that that makes a lot of sense. But I guess

1519
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,519
Speaker 1: Michael Isier commissioned to rewrite in for Roger Rabbits sequel

1520
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 1: that wound up getting five songs from friend of the

1521
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: podcast Alan Mankin, the Disney composer who helped write every

1522
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: Disney banger ever. Right, I mean, Beauty and the Base

1523
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 1: a Laddin, Little Mermaid, Little Mermaid. The plot point of

1524
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: this was that it would have been Rogers ascendance to

1525
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 1: fame on Broadway. So that's why they were going to

1526
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 1: make it a full fledged musical. Oh yeah, I guess

1527
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: they called it Who Discovered Roger Rabbit? Oh that's good.

1528
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 1: I like that. One of the songs, this Only Happens

1529
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 1: in the Movies, was recorded in two thousand eight on

1530
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 1: the debut album of the Broadway actors Kelly Butler. So

1531
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 1: you can see that out there. You can hear some

1532
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 1: of that. Um So, I guess this sequel got as

1533
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,600
Speaker 1: far as test animation, and you can see some c

1534
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:03,640
Speaker 1: g I Roger footage on YouTube. I don't like c

1535
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 1: g I rod It's very it's very early Pixar like

1536
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 1: beach balloon character. Yeah. I don't know something about hearing

1537
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:14,840
Speaker 1: the herculean lengths that these animators wanted to avoid c

1538
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 1: g I. It seems sad to me that the sequel

1539
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 1: would have relied on that. But I guess costs for

1540
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 1: this Roger Rabbits sequel balloons over a hundred and fifty

1541
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 1: million dollars, and that's in two dollars, but still a

1542
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:31,080
Speaker 1: lot of money. And Michael Eisner pulled the plug in

1543
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 1: favor of what doing Pearl Harbor with Ben Afflets a

1544
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 1: second Afflet reference. Yeah, and Asas has talked about this since.

1545
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 1: He said that in sixteen, the script has now moved

1546
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 1: on to putting the story of Roger and Jessica Rabbit

1547
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 1: into the next few years of period film, which would

1548
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: have been a love letter to the cinema of the

1549
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. In much worse news, he stated that it

1550
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 1: also called for a digital Bob Hoskins as the ghost

1551
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: of Eddie Valley and oh God being nightmare. Uh. Hoskins

1552
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:08,640
Speaker 1: retired inteen. I think he had Parkinson's since passed on,

1553
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 1: but Jesus Christ, um and he has. I think he

1554
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,760
Speaker 1: said eighteen that it's just not gonna happen. I don't

1555
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:16,880
Speaker 1: think he thinks it's ever going to be greenlit because quote,

1556
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: the current corporate Disney culture has no interest in Roger,

1557
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 1: and they certainly don't like Jessica at all. He said

1558
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: that in and then he said he doesn't see it

1559
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 1: happening on Disney Plus as like a Disney Plus original,

1560
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: because he said, quote, there's no princess in it. We

1561
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that this film is back in the zeitgeist

1562
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 1: because um, they put out Chippendale Rescue Rangers is a

1563
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: future length Chippendale movie out now. Anyone Chipping Chippendale. I

1564
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: guess John Mulaney's in this. I don't know about this

1565
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 1: movie until just now, and one of the screenwriters called

1566
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 1: it in our minds. This has always been sort of

1567
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 1: a backdoor sequel to Roger Rabbit in It's like in

1568
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: Universe and Roger Rabbit appears in the film in a

1569
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: nightclub dance sequence. Because nothing is sacred and there is

1570
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 1: no dignity anymore. I whatever, man, they actually take shots

1571
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: across Sameka's brow in that film, and a clip that

1572
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: I saw there's a part where they I guess they're

1573
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:14,560
Speaker 1: walking down the street and they say this neighborhood is

1574
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 1: the Uncanny Valley, and they say this is where all

1575
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: of the early c g I human characters live, which

1576
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: then they beat into the ground by explaining what the

1577
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,600
Speaker 1: Uncanny Valley is. They're like, you know how when in

1578
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 1: the early two thousands when they started doing like early

1579
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: c g I humans and they don't look quite right,

1580
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: that's called the Uncanny Valley. And so this neighborhood we're

1581
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: walking through with all of those cartoon characters that are

1582
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: c g I humans. That's why this is called the

1583
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 1: uncanny valid, classic case of overexplaining your joke. And then

1584
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 1: at one point they literally they run into a character

1585
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: that is like deliberately kind of wonky looking c g

1586
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 1: I and they say, he's got those creepy polar express eyes.

1587
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:57,720
Speaker 1: Oh sas did that? So whatever them. They can't hold

1588
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: a damn candle to this movie. I didn't write an

1589
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,719
Speaker 1: out short of this. I'm not gonna a plus film,

1590
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:07,479
Speaker 1: no notes. Would you like a sequel? No, no, I

1591
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 1: would if it's if they do. Here's my pitch. F

1592
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:15,719
Speaker 1: ast sequel. You get Quentin Tarantino to start doing cocaine again.

1593
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 1: You get Roberts Meckis to start doing cocaine again. Fasters

1594
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: kind of seems like that's what I'm saying. You get

1595
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 1: a hard are inglorious fast ards, Roger Rabbit fighting Nazis.

1596
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: It will never happen. That's what I want. They kill

1597
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:35,640
Speaker 1: Hitler full stop, great sold We opened on Vietcong and

1598
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 1: the Jungles. We close on killing Hitler, Roger Rabbit, thank

1599
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 1: you for listening. I'm gonna throw my laptop down as

1600
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 1: a muck drum. This has been too much Information. I'm

1601
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan ron Tog. We'll catch you

1602
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:57,560
Speaker 1: next time. Too Much Information was the production of My

1603
01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and

1604
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 1: Jordan Runtalk. The supervising producer is Mike John's. The show

1605
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 1: was researched and written and hosted by Jordan run Talk

1606
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 1: and Alex Heigel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and

1607
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 1: the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard,

1608
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,640
Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts

1609
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: and I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

1610
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.