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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Matt, and today we're talking

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Speaker 2: about buying what you love without going broke with Jen

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Speaker 2: and Jill from Frugal Friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Joel, I don't want to offend our guests today,

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Speaker 1: but Jen and Jill are basically like the girl version

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Speaker 1: of us. They just got longer hair. Just kidding. They

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Speaker 1: really are friends, though they talk about money on their podcast,

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Speaker 1: Frugal Friends, which they started right around the same time

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Speaker 1: that we started Hours I think back in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: One big difference though they've written books, and specifically they

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Speaker 1: have a new book hitting the shelves in January. That

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Speaker 1: kind of attention span, do we, Matt, No, No, The

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Speaker 1: name of the book buy what you Love Without Going Broke,

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Speaker 1: And that is exactly what we're talking about today, spending money.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about all the ways that we're doing

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Speaker 1: it wrong, how to go about spending money in a

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Speaker 1: in like a healthy values driven manner, ways to support

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Speaker 1: those new habits, all that and more. Today we've got

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Speaker 1: a lot to discuss. There are four of us here,

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Speaker 1: after all, all of us podcasters, so I think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have a lot to get through, so we'll cut

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Speaker 1: to the chase. Jen and Jill, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us today on how to Money.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having us such a pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a full house.

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Speaker 2: We love it most definitely. We're excited for you, excited

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Speaker 2: for this new book. And but first question out of

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Speaker 2: the gate that we got to ask everybody who comes

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Speaker 2: on is what's your craft your equivalent? What do you

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Speaker 2: like to suploi? John, we're gonna talk about spending here today,

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Speaker 2: what do you like to splour John? While you're still

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Speaker 2: being smart with your money and thinking about your future.

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Speaker 4: So for me, I think it's a little weird, But

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Speaker 4: for me it's not weird. I buy pre cut vegetables,

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Speaker 4: which in the frugal living space is like a gas Like,

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Speaker 4: why would you spend extra to have your vegetables pre cut?

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Speaker 1: Sounds like heresy, right.

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Speaker 4: But if it's that barrier to entry between me cooking

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Speaker 4: and me getting takeout, that's usually what it is, is

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Speaker 4: the effort that it takes to chop a vegetable. I'm lazy.

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Speaker 4: I embrace it. So pre chopped vegetafici, I love it.

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Speaker 4: I love either way to say it.

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Speaker 1: That's my thing I love. Okay, So my wife she

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Speaker 1: she chops real veggies. Not to brag that thing said.

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Speaker 1: She does get the pre peeled garlic from Aldie in

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Speaker 1: the in the ziplock resealable bag because that is such

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Speaker 1: a time consuming task and she gets all in your

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Speaker 1: fingernails and she hates it. So she's like, I'm buying

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Speaker 1: that pre peeled garlic living high on the hog.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 4: I take it a step further and I get minced garlic.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm just I'm there.

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Speaker 3: Jen has your wife beat of the efficient, Jill, how

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Speaker 3: about you? For me, it's paying for car washes still

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Speaker 3: the like drive through kind. But then we've got this

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Speaker 3: place near us called Woodies Washhack. I'm not paid by them,

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Speaker 3: I should be. And afterwards you can wipe down your

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Speaker 3: car and vacuum it out included in the price of

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Speaker 3: the wash itself, and it is a party to me.

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Speaker 3: Could I clean and vacuum my car at home? Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: Do I have the supplies to do it? Sure do?

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Speaker 3: Would I rather go to Woody's Washack.

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Speaker 4: Because they're playing the cool like beach music and they

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Speaker 4: got very strong vacuum.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes for employees, even power it's essential. Their employees will

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Speaker 3: help you to kind of detail your car, and then

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Speaker 3: you try and tip them and they can accept tip.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it's like wood.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, washhack is a vibe.

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Speaker 2: I think the other thing that is included in that

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Speaker 2: is entertainment for your children if you.

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Speaker 1: Uh, because they got the led all the colors.

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Speaker 2: Yes, my kids are like, dad, please can we go

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Speaker 2: to the cars? But then you also get some work

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Speaker 2: out of them. They help you clean the car on

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Speaker 2: the back back end, So it's it's worth it if

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Speaker 2: you can find a cheap enough place because it hits

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Speaker 2: a bunch of those facets.

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Speaker 3: I don't have kids, but it's entertaining for me.

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Speaker 1: You can borrow mine. Joke, same years will be old enough.

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Speaker 1: And that's when you know you've like turned the corner

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Speaker 1: when you start putting them to work and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like, wait a minute. Life looks a

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Speaker 1: lot different now than when I used to just do

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Speaker 1: everything for you. You're starting to pull your own ways.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 4: I do make my twenty month old bring his own

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Speaker 4: diaper to the trash can and that's nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, see that's progress.

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Speaker 3: Yeah the drift, Yeah, life back, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Curious Okay, so our listeners know that where Joel and

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Speaker 1: I stand when it comes to organization or how nerdy

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Speaker 1: each one of us is when we approach our finances.

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Speaker 1: What do you what's y'all's take on budgeting specifically, because

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Speaker 1: Joel's like more of a shoot from the hip kind

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Speaker 1: of westerner, like a Western movie kind of guy. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm more like a sniper, kind of rifle kind of guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm very exact zerous on budgeting. What about y'all. Do

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Speaker 1: y'all have a you've got to similar breakdown?

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Speaker 4: You've got two of us two Yeah, So I'm very

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Speaker 4: much like Joel, which is so funny because we both

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Speaker 4: Joel and I have the specific personal finance backgrounds like

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Speaker 4: pre podcasting. Yeah, but I am very much like go

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Speaker 4: with the flow. And I think the reason I love

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Speaker 4: values based spending so much is because it allows me

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Speaker 4: to feel confident in my outgo and income without having

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Speaker 4: a really strict plan. So that's definitely more my vibe.

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Speaker 3: And I like being in the nitty gritty. It's just

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Speaker 3: fun for me. I have a spreadsheet that I created.

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Speaker 3: I like looking at all of my transactions. However, both

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Speaker 3: of our approaches to budgets are that it's like step

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Speaker 3: four or five in the grand scheme of personal finance.

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Speaker 3: There's so much more that needs to come before putting

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Speaker 3: numbers to paper. The way that we manage money, the

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Speaker 3: decisions that we make about spending are far more nuanced

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Speaker 3: than just math. Okay, so it's really not the first

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Speaker 3: step for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like, what, in your opinion what comes first?

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Speaker 1: Because I think for a lot of folks, budgeting, like,

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Speaker 1: let's say you're trying to get fit, it's like, okay, exercise.

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Speaker 1: I feel like budgeting is sort of like the exercise

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Speaker 1: equivalent when it comes to to physical fitness. But what

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Speaker 1: do you think should should come first?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think budgeting is actually the like physique plan. Right,

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Speaker 4: If you have a plan to get a six pack,

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Speaker 4: you then need to develop the skills of exercising in

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Speaker 4: order to execute that plan. Right, So we talk about

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Speaker 4: essentially a plan to develop developing those skills so that

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Speaker 4: you can actually stick with your budget. That's what so

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Speaker 4: many people are missing.

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Speaker 3: So both kind of tangible and intangible. Intangibly, it is

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Speaker 3: a lot to do with understanding ourselves and kind of

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Speaker 3: what makes us tick, What are our values? What do

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Speaker 3: we enjoy spending money on? What could we care less

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Speaker 3: to spend money on? And tangibly, we talk about a

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Speaker 3: couple of things that you can do before you're even budgeting,

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Speaker 3: including a ninety day transaction inventory. So even knowing first

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Speaker 3: where is your money going typically what are you finding

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Speaker 3: yourself spending on, can help to inform the plan that

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Speaker 3: we make going forward. So we say doing a ninety

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Speaker 3: day transaction inventory because it kind of captures the typical

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Speaker 3: transactions purchases that we make and can maybe even get

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Speaker 3: some of those outliers, the things that don't happen every

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Speaker 3: month but they happen occasionally kind of a thing and

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Speaker 3: compile that all into a spreadsheet to be able to

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Speaker 3: see where am I spending money on most often, what's

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Speaker 3: taking up the majority of my expenses and might even

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Speaker 3: be informative on some of the habits or impulse purchases

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Speaker 3: that we tend to make. What time of day am

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Speaker 3: I typically spending in pulsively? At what location am I

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Speaker 3: typically spending impulsively? How do I feel about where my

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Speaker 3: money is going? So even creating a whole other column

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Speaker 3: of essentially being able to journal about our transactions not

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Speaker 3: lengthy paragraphs, but being able to identify, Oh, do I

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Speaker 3: remember where what came just before I made this purchase?

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Speaker 3: Do I remember was I with anybody? How was I feeling?

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Speaker 3: How did I feel after I made the purchase? These

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Speaker 3: things can kind of help us to understand how do

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Speaker 3: I feel about the way that I'm spending money? Do

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Speaker 3: I even remember it? Did it fulfill my needs? Did

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Speaker 3: it satisfy whatever it was that I was hoping that

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Speaker 3: it satisfied? Did it solve for the problem that I

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Speaker 3: thought it was going to solve for? Can then help

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Speaker 3: us to understand is this where I still want to

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Speaker 3: be putting my money or are there different ways that

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Speaker 3: I can be allocating the way that I spend, which

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Speaker 3: can then help to inform the budget.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now I like that.

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Speaker 2: And Joe, one of the things you said kind of

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Speaker 2: at the beginning there was you talked about knowing ourselves

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Speaker 2: and how that's kind of important and important first step.

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Speaker 2: And you guys argue in the book that it's you know,

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Speaker 2: the way you're spending money. It's not necessarily a personality trade.

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Speaker 2: I think we tend to think of it like I

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Speaker 2: am this or my spouse is this, and it is

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Speaker 2: this ingrained thing? Like are we spenders or savers because

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Speaker 2: of nature or nurture?

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Speaker 1: Like? Yeah, is this a habit that we've accrued over time?

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Speaker 4: I think we a lot of people in marketing want

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Speaker 4: us to define ourselves as spender or saver because it's

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Speaker 4: a lot easier to define yourself as a spender because

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Speaker 4: everybody spends money. So if I have internalized that I

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Speaker 4: am a spender, it is a lot easier for a

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Speaker 4: marketer to get me to spend money, especially impulsively. So

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Speaker 4: I think that kind of perpetuates it. But we also

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Speaker 4: we tend to live for better or for worse in

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Speaker 4: extremes because it's a lot easier to look at things

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Speaker 4: in black and white one end of the spec to

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Speaker 4: remove the other, and that we don't have to process

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Speaker 4: a lot of nuance or a lot of like follow

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Speaker 4: up questions when we look at things in black and white.

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Speaker 4: And so the spender saver idea is that black and

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Speaker 4: white idea. The problem is is that everyone is a spender,

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Speaker 4: and everyone should be and can be a saver. It

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Speaker 4: just depends on where you are at financially, what season

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Speaker 4: you're in, at what capacity you do Each of those.

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Speaker 1: Like what you're pointing to. There are like essentially labels

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Speaker 1: right in the ability to sort of latch onto certain labels,

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Speaker 1: and in our sort of modern consumerist culture, I think

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Speaker 1: oftentimes we can tend to let our purchases reflect our

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Speaker 1: chosen identity or the labels that we have adopted. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that that's the part of the problem when

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Speaker 1: it comes to how it is that we're maybe unintentionally

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Speaker 1: or maybe even intentionally spending our money. It's almost like

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Speaker 1: I'm outdoorsy, I gotta get any super room exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, I think that these labels that we take

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Speaker 3: on could even go just beyond how we spend, but

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Speaker 3: how we manage money as a whole, how we think

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Speaker 3: about money, how we approach it, and then how we

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Speaker 3: interact with it and spend it. We talk a little

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Speaker 3: bit in the book about kind of these cognitive distortions

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Speaker 3: to say it in a clinical way or just unhelpful

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Speaker 3: thinking styles that can become a part of our daily

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Speaker 3: living that absolutely impacts finances, but aren't just a financial thing.

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Speaker 3: But labeling all or nothing thinking over generalizing. We can

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Speaker 3: do these things in all aspects of our lives, but

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Speaker 3: especially too when it comes to our finances, thinking I

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Speaker 3: am a spender or a saver, or you know, everything

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Speaker 3: is all wrong and I'm broke and I'll never be

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Speaker 3: able to make more money, or labeling our situation, however

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Speaker 3: it is that we might label it. I think really

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Speaker 3: being able to look at what have I believed to

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Speaker 3: be true about my situation? What of that thinking style

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Speaker 3: is helpful, what's not actually serving me? And how can

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Speaker 3: I bring in some reality to the situation. I know

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Speaker 3: for me, I can catastrophize a ton when it comes

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Speaker 3: to my finances. This happened when we paid taxes last year,

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Speaker 3: and it was the first time that the business had

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Speaker 3: shown a profit, and we were an escorp at the time,

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Speaker 3: and I had only had W two's that year, which

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Speaker 3: was also very unusual for me. I'm used to being

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Speaker 3: a ten ninety nine and needing to set my own

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Speaker 3: money aside, but I didn't that year, thinking oh, it's

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Speaker 3: all getting withdrawn from my paychecks. We're good to go,

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Speaker 3: until I got hit with a tax bill and I

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Speaker 3: was so overwhelmed by this and catastrophized. I'm like, this

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Speaker 3: is an insane amount of money. Thank goodness, we did

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Speaker 3: have money set aside like it didn't. It didn't call

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Speaker 3: us to go broke. But I then was thinking, if

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Speaker 3: I have another crisis event, this is going to be

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Speaker 3: really awful for us. So I even told so my

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Speaker 3: husband and I we have scooters as like our second vehicle,

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Speaker 3: and I put a rule on my husband and I

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Speaker 3: that we couldn't ride our scooters until we like put

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Speaker 3: more money back into savings because I was afraid if

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Speaker 3: we got into an accident, then we'd have to pay

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Speaker 3: our medical deductible and that could cause us to go

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Speaker 3: an absolute financial ruin. So I just really went to

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Speaker 3: such an.

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Speaker 1: Extreme with it, shellfish just in case. We haven't a

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Speaker 1: lot of a gratchat.

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Speaker 4: I know we developed it.

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Speaker 3: This was it was legit, and I almost had a

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Speaker 3: breakdown in our accountant's office where I'm just like, what,

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Speaker 3: how did I not see this coming? I'm the worst? Ever?

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Speaker 3: How do I have a personal finance podcast? I can't

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Speaker 3: let anyone find out about this Here I am talking

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Speaker 3: openly about it.

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Speaker 1: Now if there's tens of millions of people, nonetheless, you.

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Speaker 3: Know now everybody knows. But it took me pausing to

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Speaker 3: realize and kind of talk myself through this situation of Okay,

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Speaker 3: what made me think that I wasn't going to owe

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Speaker 3: any taxes this year? And come to find out, it's

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Speaker 3: a problem a lot of people face where they don't

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Speaker 3: withhold enough even as W two employees. It was the

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Speaker 3: first time ever that I had been fully a W

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Speaker 3: two employee. So it's just I just didn't know. I'm

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Speaker 3: not stupid, but I encountered a situation that I had

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Speaker 3: a lack of knowledge about. But I now know and

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Speaker 3: I can move forward. I did have the money, Awesome,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to have to go into debt for this.

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Speaker 3: I can make changes. I can actually help other people

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Speaker 3: to be able to understand and protect themselves against some

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Speaker 3: crisis event and their tax accountant office and stay on

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Speaker 3: a tax prison. But I think for me knowing this

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Speaker 3: about myself, that okay, I can and to overgeneralize and

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Speaker 3: what are the steps that I need to take in

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Speaker 3: order to help myself calm down, bring in some of

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Speaker 3: the reality, and start to put action to it rather

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Speaker 3: than just staying in my head and taking on all

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Speaker 3: of these cognitive distortions, these unhelpful thinking styles that are

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Speaker 3: actually not going to serve me well when it comes

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Speaker 3: to managing my money.

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Speaker 4: And then ignoring it and not paying your taxes.

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Speaker 2: And just like yeah, some get me, uncle Sam, I

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Speaker 2: moved to some island where they can't the long arm

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Speaker 2: of the law can't get you, right, just go out

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Speaker 2: on the lamb jen.

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Speaker 1: I guess when we're talking.

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Speaker 2: About spending, a lot of people think about spending as

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Speaker 2: something that they have to do right to put a

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Speaker 2: roof over their head, pay the car note. Although Matt

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Speaker 2: and I say, don't ever have a car note or

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Speaker 2: something they get to do right now. This is the

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Speaker 2: spending that's like kind of fun, buy an ice cream

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Speaker 2: with my family or whatever. But you guys talk about

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Speaker 2: spending as a skill, So.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear, like why you think it's a skill,

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Speaker 2: and then how we can become like more skilled at spending.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is a mindset shift, because we're not

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Speaker 4: taught how to spend money. We are simply taught. We're

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Speaker 4: barely taught how to earn it. We're taught that you

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Speaker 4: can get a job or you can start a business,

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Speaker 4: and that's pretty much it. And then we're taught you

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Speaker 4: have to spend as little as possible in order to

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Speaker 4: be responsible with money and if you can make enough,

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Speaker 4: then invest it. But we're not really going to teach

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Speaker 4: you that either. So that's kind of the extent of

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Speaker 4: our financial education growing up and even as adults. Nobody

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Speaker 4: online really talks about how to spend money all. A

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Speaker 4: lot of the talk in the frugality space is about

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Speaker 4: how to get as much as possible for as little

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Speaker 4: as possible, how to get good deals, use coupons, Bogo,

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Speaker 4: or just deprive yourself so you can live with nothing.

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Speaker 4: And that's great for some people, I guess, but for me,

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Speaker 4: I love spending money. I just do. I love getting trees,

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Speaker 4: I love treating myself. I love treating my kids. I

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Speaker 4: think they deserve it. I deserve it, but I feel

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Speaker 4: guilty when I treat myself, So what's up with that? Like,

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Speaker 4: I definitely deserve it. So there is this radical middle

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Speaker 4: between spending all your money because you have it and

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Speaker 4: being really quote unquote good at spending and then saving

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Speaker 4: all your money, which is the other extreme, and usually

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Speaker 4: that's done out of fear of not having money because

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Speaker 4: if I spend it, I'll need it as soon as

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Speaker 4: I spend it. So where is this radical middle where

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Speaker 4: we can yes, spend money but also save it and

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Speaker 4: not go broke. And that is where we found that

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Speaker 4: spending is a skill. So if you're going to learn

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Speaker 4: how to spend money and build the skills and the

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Speaker 4: practices you need to stick with a budget, then you've

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Speaker 4: got to look at a lot of sub skills. So,

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Speaker 4: like any skill or activity, to master it, there are

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Speaker 4: a lot of sub skills. So like to be good

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Speaker 4: at communication, you also have to be good at not

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Speaker 4: just talking, but listening, and it's the same with spending.

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Speaker 4: So we talk a lot in the book about these

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Speaker 4: different sub skills to stick with being good at spending totally.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think one of those is curiosity. You talk

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Speaker 1: about that in chapter two. How can that be helpful

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Speaker 1: when it comes to folks learning how to spend their

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Speaker 1: money in a more value driven way.

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Speaker 3: Curiosity is one of those pieces that we say should

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Speaker 3: also come before making a budget, and it can be

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Speaker 3: part of that ninety day transaction inventory process where we

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Speaker 3: understand ourselves more as we take a curio a curious

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Speaker 3: kind of not knowing approach to ourselves, just wondering about

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Speaker 3: what we enjoy, what makes us tick, what we don't like,

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Speaker 3: what we can say easy nos to and better yes

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Speaker 3: is too. And so when we can approach ourselves with curiosity,

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Speaker 3: it includes asking questions but avoiding why questions. We've found

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Speaker 3: that the why question can really put us on the

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Speaker 3: defense or that automatic kind of fight mode. It's the

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Speaker 3: difference between why do you want to spend so much

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Speaker 3: with car wash? To what is it about wood? He's

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Speaker 3: washhack that is so enjoyed, so much better than the washing.

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Speaker 1: Wash.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, the ones, the one is I need to

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Speaker 3: justify myself and the other is let me dig deeper,

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Speaker 3: let me think more about what it is that I

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Speaker 3: enjoy so much about this activity, this thing, these items,

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Speaker 3: and can help us learn how can we even go

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Speaker 3: further deeper into those things? And possibly are there ways

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Speaker 3: that we can meet that value without spending money if necessary?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And and a lot of that can result in

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Speaker 4: some false rationalization where we'll say, okay, well my car

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Speaker 4: needs to be clean, so I need to go to

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Speaker 4: the car wash, and that's how we justify things, and

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Speaker 4: then we don't give space to get creative with how

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Speaker 4: we spend and save money. And so yeah, maybe going

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Speaker 4: to the car wash. You love it, It's a vibe and

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Speaker 4: you can afford it, then we say it's okay to

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Speaker 4: want to go to the car wash. You don't need

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Speaker 4: to justify and rationalize your purchases to be needs. They

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Speaker 4: don't all need to be needs. It can be very

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Speaker 4: empowering to want something and then be able to afford it.

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Speaker 4: And then when we're looking at our expenses more as

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Speaker 4: wants than trying to falsely justify them as needs, it

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Speaker 4: opens up a lot more space to get creative with

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Speaker 4: how we meet needs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I can see that curiosity.

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Speaker 2: Maybe if I'm thinking, all right, should I spend money

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Speaker 2: on a video game system or on some hiking shoes,

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Speaker 2: I could see say, well, how do I like to

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Speaker 2: spend my time saying, oh wait, I like to get

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Speaker 2: on the trails more than I like to stay indoors,

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Speaker 2: And so that's that's going to help me make the

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Speaker 2: decision between those two things. But what if somebody's saying,

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Speaker 2: my curiosity reveals and I like fancy cars, but I

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Speaker 2: also don't really have the budget to buy the brand

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Speaker 2: new Ribbean? Like, yeah, how do you help people decipher

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Speaker 2: thinking through value spending when maybe they can't afford things

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Speaker 2: they're into.

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Speaker 4: So it's great, like I said, to want things. It's

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Speaker 4: really great to want things, but what we value really

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Speaker 4: comes down to our needs. So often when we talk

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Speaker 4: about values based spending, the first thing that comes to

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Speaker 4: somebody's mind is but like, yeah, I like lattes, and like,

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Speaker 4: that's that's what I value. And in reality, values are

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Speaker 4: much deeper than that. They are technically human needs, and

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Speaker 4: so it's very it's very broad, but we have found

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Speaker 4: that we can distill what at least most Americans value

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Speaker 4: most highly into four things. They all start with F

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Speaker 4: and then we'll talk about like how we found those.

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Speaker 4: It's family, friends, faith, and fulfilling work. So some relationships

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Speaker 4: with your family, romantic relationships, kids, friendships, just feeling of

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Speaker 4: connection belonging on deep levels. And then also just on

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Speaker 4: like recreational or hobby levels, some kind of faith or spirituality.

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Speaker 4: And then fulfilling work, so not necessarily like your passion project,

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Speaker 4: but work where you're feeling like you're contributing, that you're

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Speaker 4: using your creativity, you're being able to live in your

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Speaker 4: full potential. Just work that you enjoy and then also

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Speaker 4: pays you. So those are kind of the four baselines.

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Speaker 4: Pretty much everything we spend money on is really truly

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Speaker 4: to get one of those things, and if it's not

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Speaker 4: one of those, it can come down to something on

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Speaker 4: them hierarchy of needs. I don't know if you've heard

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Speaker 4: of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but it's like five levels.

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Speaker 4: The first two are basic needs, so we've got food, shelter, water,

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Speaker 4: and then we've got safety and consistency. Above that, we've

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Speaker 4: got psychological so that's where we get into the family, friends,

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Speaker 4: and then we have self esteem above that, which a

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Speaker 4: lot of that can be found in your work, so

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Speaker 4: it's respect, self confidence, stuff like that. And then at

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Speaker 4: the very top you've got self actualization, passion, creativity, innovation,

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Speaker 4: like feeling like you're living in your full potential. We

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Speaker 4: found a lot of that in fulfilling work and in

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Speaker 4: spiritual practices. So that's how we got to these four

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Speaker 4: f's is looking at this hierarchy of human needs. And

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Speaker 4: so if one of your values isn't meeting one of

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Speaker 4: those four, it's probably still going to fall somewhere on

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Speaker 4: that hierarchy of needs. When I say I value a

435
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 4: nice car like a rivion, like they're beautiful cars, they're great,

436
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 4: I would love one, But what I I truly like

437
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 4: I want that, that's not it's not in need, and

438
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 4: it's empowering for me to say, like, yes, I want it,

439
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 4: and if I can afford it, I'll buy it. But

440
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 4: actually what I want more is relationships with the people

441
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 4: I love, flexibility in work, and you know, a community

442
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 4: of people around me. So those are really the things

443
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 4: I want first. And then if I'm fulfilling all those things,

444
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 4: then I can double check. I can double back and

445
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 4: see if I still want the Rivion and see if

446
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 4: it's still an important thing to budget for.

447
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, see if there's there's slack in the budget. Two

448
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: things I will say, when you say Rivian, it sounds

449
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: twice as expensive. I got.

450
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 4: I got dinged so many times when we were recording

451
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 4: our audio book for say, really normal things in life wrong.

452
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: Like Jen just say it normally, like it's really.

453
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 4: Mass Low's hierarchy of need, and I still say Maslow.

454
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: I still says Tomato.

455
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: So we've got more to get to with Jen and Jill,

456
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: including like what do we do in a society that

457
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: is constantly trying to, especially this time of year, part

458
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: us from our money.

459
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: Uh.

460
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: We'll get to some questions about that with them right

461
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: after this all right, We are back from the break

462
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: talking about how you can basically buy whatever you want

463
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: without going broke with Jen and Jill, including Viands. I'm curious,

464
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: like I've had a question, I guess about self control.

465
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you think it's harder than ever today

466
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: to just rein in our spending because it seems like

467
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: at every turn there's a company out there that are

468
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: trying to part us from our dollars. Do you think

469
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: that this is a new challenge or has it always

470
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: been the case?

471
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 4: It has all always been a challenge, but never more

472
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 4: challenging than it is now in the nineteen twenties, and

473
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 4: when like pr and marketing really, you know, after the

474
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 4: Industrial Revolution, when marketing really came into its own, it

475
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 4: was you had to be at the right place at

476
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: the right time, listening to the radio or reading the

477
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 4: newspaper to get an AD. And now you wake up

478
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: and you open a device and they are right there,

479
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 4: not just random, but tailored to you and so and

480
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 4: there are so many options for types of It's never

481
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 4: been easier to start a business or to offer a

482
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 4: product or service. So there's so many different types now too,

483
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 4: so it can be very confusing to decide do oh

484
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: do I have this problem? Do I need this product

485
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 4: or service to solve the problem? And you just have

486
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 4: to ask yourself so many more questions than you used to. So, yes,

487
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 4: it is harder than ever to keep your money to yourself.

488
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like a marketing in the nineteen sixties

489
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I want a new TV. But now,

490
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: like the way that they can drill down via algorithms

491
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: and marketing because of all the data that they have

492
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: about you can be so specific and you're like, how

493
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: did you know? Like, like the algorithms know us better

494
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: than our friends and family, it seems at times. And

495
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: then that can I think trigger impulsive spending, and that

496
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: is a massive enemy of being able to spend responsibly.

497
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: So like, how do we counteract this marketing machine and

498
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 2: the influx of kind of like proposals to get us

499
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: to part with our money on a regular basis. Is

500
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: it part of just kind of like where we hang

501
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 2: out and not hanging out there anymore?

502
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I think it's important to say

503
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: that we are not bad or there's something wrong with

504
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 3: us because we impulse spend. I think that that will

505
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: forever and always be something that we face. We see

506
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: something it seems to solve a problem that we have,

507
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: and we buy it. That's going to happen, And so

508
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: in some ways, part of the solution can be to

509
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 3: factor that into our spending plan that I want to

510
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: create some flexibility month to month, week to week on

511
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: allowing myself to be able to see something and buy

512
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: it if I want to and not feel like I

513
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: have to constantly deprive myself. But from there, I think

514
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 3: it can be helpful to identify what type of impulse

515
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: spender are we because we don't We're not all the

516
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: same in the ways in which we make impulsive spending decisions.

517
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 3: It could be some of the top five that we

518
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 3: identify in the book is spending out of habit, spending

519
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: as an activity, spending as the result of social influence.

520
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 3: The thrill of the hunt can cause us to impulse

521
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: spend and stress or emotional spending, and so that ninety

522
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: day transaction inventory can be helpful and identify what type

523
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: of impulse spender am I is it? Am I typically

524
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: buying things that I wasn't planning on when I was

525
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 3: feeling sad or celebratory, or it's the same day, at

526
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: the same time, at the same location, and so it's

527
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: a habit spending or is it every weekend when I'm

528
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: out with friends? So maybe it's social influencer shopping as

529
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: an activity. And so when we can first identify what

530
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: is it that draws me to spend in this way,

531
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: then can help to inform how will I then intersect

532
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: this pattern that's happening. And each one is going to

533
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: have a different type of solution to it. So, for instance,

534
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: if let's say for me, it's when I'm scrolling on

535
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: my phone late at night and all these instagrammers are

536
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: getting me and my walls are down, and I've made

537
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: too many decisions today and I'm just going to one

538
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: click buy that thing because it looks cool. If that's

539
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: kind of where I tend to be finding myself spending

540
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 3: the most money, then there's a a couple of things

541
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: that I could do from there. It could mean that

542
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: I need to curate who I'm following better that Instagram.

543
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 3: Social media the Internet can be a wonderful place and

544
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: have tremendous resources, but sometimes they don't serve us well.

545
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: But could I be taking inventory of who I'm following?

546
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 3: Could I be following accounts that are talking about more

547
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: conscious consumption or lower waste or helping me towards some

548
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 3: of the goals that I have, like meal planning and

549
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: prepping more. And I can follow these accounts that have

550
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: interesting recipes, easy meal prep recipes. Or it could be

551
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: that I need to find another activity that's going to

552
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 3: provide me with the dopamine hit that shopping does give us.

553
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: That finding something and being about to purchase it really

554
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: does release for us. And so for some that could

555
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: be instead of scrolling, I'm going to watch funny videos,

556
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: or if you're an animal person, you're going to watch

557
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: some cute cats and dogs doing whatever it is that

558
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: they do online.

559
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: Or go play some pickleball.

560
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: Well, if it's late at night, I don't know if

561
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to go out and put on my.

562
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean maybe you can, but you shouldn't.

563
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: But something to replace that action that is of similar

564
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: value or similar time commitment or similar like doesn't require

565
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: you to get out of bed and put your sneakers on.

566
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 3: Finding something else that you can do instead of rather

567
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: than just completely eliminating it, finding an alternative solution with

568
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 3: your creativity.

569
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, we say similar sizes, Like there are small size,

570
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 4: you know, like low barrier to entry things and you

571
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 4: want to replace those with lower barrier to entry things,

572
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: and then there's medium size, and we've got a list

573
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 4: in the book to kind of help you figure out,

574
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 4: you know, if this is the size of my trigger,

575
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: then this is the size of my solution sort of thing.

576
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: Nice, it's a similar, Yeah, it's getting a similar fix

577
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: for that receptor or whatever it is that you're trying

578
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: to trying to fill there. But you mentioned social media,

579
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: and I wonder like if even more than the algorithms

580
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: and sort of the different products were fed because, like

581
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: I one end, you've got like TikTok shop and literally

582
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: you've got folks who are hawking goods and they want

583
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: you to buy that thing. But I'm curious of your

584
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: thoughts on social media because I almost feel that the

585
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: exposure to the different types of lifestyles that are out there,

586
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: that that could even be more detrimental to our personal

587
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: finances than the one off buying some tennis shoes, which

588
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: literally happened to me because Vans was like, oh, you

589
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: love these these shoes, and so I bought those shoes.

590
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: But that isn't necessarily going to wreck me as much

591
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: as following somebody that has this beautiful home. Oh they

592
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: live out in Lake Tahoe or there's like these you know,

593
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: like the different mom influencers that live out in like

594
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: Utah and stuff like that. But like seeing their homes

595
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: for instance, And I wonder if just that exposure to

596
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: all that's out there, if that has almost warped our

597
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: perspective as to what is normal and even that right

598
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: there causes us to make that like I've altered decisions

599
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: that inevitably leads to like our financial ruin. Does that

600
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: make sense?

601
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's more of so I think it

602
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 4: causes less of these big life changes like home purchases.

603
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 4: But I but I think that the grandioseness is intentional

604
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: because I'm looking at this beautiful home and I'm like, oh,

605
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 4: I know I can't have that. I know I can't

606
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 4: afford that, but I can afford this coffee maker that's

607
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 4: in her video, Like I can afford a small piece

608
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: of it.

609
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: You can get one step.

610
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 4: Or these videos that have like feature like forty different products,

611
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: and everybody rage hates like on it. They don't want

612
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 4: you to buy forty products from their video they want

613
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: you to buy one there, and you look at that,

614
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I can't afford all of these things,

615
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 4: but I can afford one thing, and that's the goal.

616
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: If their video was reasonable, like in a normal looking

617
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 4: house or with one or two products, you're less likely

618
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: to feel inadequate enough to make the impulse purchase to

619
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 4: try to increase or get closer to that aspiration.

620
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is why I think it's so important to

621
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 3: then understand some of the deeper need that that purchase

622
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 3: is tethered to. And that can be a question we

623
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 3: ask ourselves, is what which of the four FS might

624
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: I be trying to get closer to in making this purchase.

625
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 3: We talked with a woman recently who said, you know what,

626
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: I think my recent purchase from an Instagram influencer for

627
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 3: these cute dresses actually had to do with my need

628
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 3: for belonging and connection. And that's a really vulnerable thing

629
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: to realize and to name. But how powerful to be

630
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: able to say, Okay, the next time I encounter this,

631
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: I'm more equipped to know this isn't actually about me

632
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: needing another dress. I think I probably have plenty. This

633
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 3: might be about me wanting deeper connection with people. How

634
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: do I get that instead?

635
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: Yeah?

636
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: And then there's trade offs when you buy the dress, Yeah,

637
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: but of not being able to do other things with

638
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 2: that money. But you're right, like I think we are

639
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: often spending money in a moment of fatigue or in

640
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: a desire to fill some sort of other for lack

641
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 2: of a better.

642
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: Phrase, whole in our heart.

643
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 2: And you, guys, you also make the case in the

644
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: book for getting the biggest financial decisions right right. You

645
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: basically talk about, oh, if you're able to reduce your

646
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: housing costs or transportation costs, it can kind of act

647
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: as a pressure release valve, which makes some of the

648
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: smaller purchases less harrowing. Like you know, the book The

649
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: Latte Factor was super popular, and then there was this

650
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 2: whole thing about, man, if you buy coffee out, you're

651
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 2: a newdiot and you're ruining your personal finances. And I

652
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: feel so much more of an ability to not stress

653
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: about small decisions because I drive a ridiculously old car

654
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: that costs me almost nothing. How big and important is

655
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 2: that for people? And that's the fact that the expensive

656
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: recur and car payment is preventing them from being able

657
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: to feel any sort of bliss in those minor purchases.

658
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, pressure release valve is such a perfect term for it,

659
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: because when you are focusing on these bigger things, then

660
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 4: you don't have to stress about the smaller things so much.

661
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 4: And I feel like so as a you know, as

662
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 4: a woman who grew up in early two thousands diet culture.

663
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 4: And I saw this video recently and I just got

664
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 4: a tech. We talked about this in an episode recently.

665
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 4: I got a text from a friend who listened to

666
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 4: it and she was cracking up. But I saw this

667
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 4: video of this woman talking about how to save money,

668
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 4: and she references weight watchers who apparently were saying that

669
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 4: the way you lose weight or the way you gain

670
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 4: weight is through blt's bites, licks and tastes, and they're like,

671
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 4: pay attention to all these small tastes, right, I know,

672
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 4: it's it's so bizarre, but she's but they're like, you

673
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 4: can't you basically can't eat anything good or you'll gain weight.

674
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 4: And so this woman was saying, you can't spend on

675
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 4: anything fun or you'll be broke. And I'm like, what

676
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: in the actual head, Like those small pennies and dollars

677
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 4: are not what is causing the problem. The two the

678
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 4: biggest problems are the income and your biggest expenses, which

679
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 4: according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics for Americans is

680
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 4: your housing, transportation, and food. So if we can get

681
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 4: if we can really number four, actually investing is number

682
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: that's a what do you do? It is one of

683
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 4: those BLTs. Yeah, you'll let you decide which one. But

684
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: if you if we can really hone in on the

685
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 4: cost of our housing, the cost of our insportation, and

686
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 4: the cost of our food, then we don't have to

687
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 4: worry as much about all the other things, and it

688
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 4: definitely takes the pressure off of getting values based spending

689
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 4: one hundred percent.

690
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: Right, Let's talk about some of the different external factors

691
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: that we all deal with. How does our environment impact

692
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: our different buying decisions, like, for instance, can a missy home?

693
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: Can that really lead to more purchasing mistakes as we

694
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: are feeling overwhelmed at the end of the day and

695
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: scrolling doom, scrolling and get fed something I don't know,

696
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: something that we think is gonna like Joel said, feel

697
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: that that empty hole. Somebody read the book.

698
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 3: Wow, this is for those alleys. So absolutely we are

699
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: living within a context. There's this idea that's talked about

700
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 3: in social work. It's kind of a foundational concept of

701
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 3: person in environment pie for short, because food, And it's

702
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 3: this understanding that, yeah, we our individuals with our own

703
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: stories and experiences, likes and dislikes that exist also in

704
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 3: an environment within a context that also informs kind of

705
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: how they are influencing and being influenced. So our environment

706
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: certainly includes our immediate physical spaces, but also our larger

707
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 3: community and where we are. So everything from who we

708
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 3: choose to follow on social media, to our friends that

709
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: we have and how we engage with them, the ways

710
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 3: that we enjoy connection to the homes that we have,

711
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: and the types of neighborhoods that we live into our

712
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: immediate environment and maybe even how cluttered or how simplified

713
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: it may or may not be, can absolutely bear weight

714
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: on what we think is normal as well as how

715
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 3: cluttered our decision making might be, how fatigued we might

716
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: be depending on how much stimulation is happening around us.

717
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: So there's obviously now so many different things that could

718
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 3: be looked at in that, But if we were to

719
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: just talk about our immediate physical spaces, absolutely having a

720
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 3: simplified environment, And that doesn't mean minimalist, that doesn't mean

721
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: you only have a couple of things in all of

722
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: your walls are white. It could just mean that you

723
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: know what you have, what you have does serve you,

724
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: and you know where it's located, rather than I have

725
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 3: no idea and I don't know where my things are,

726
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: so I'm buying duplicates instead. And now I feel stressed,

727
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 3: and so I'm going to purchase things that I probably

728
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: don't need because I feel overwhelmed, and this is the

729
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 3: dopamine hit that I need. So we do certainly talk

730
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: about how important it can be to simplify our environment

731
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: and how that act can help us in identifying what

732
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: is our clutter kryptonite, what are we maybe drawn to

733
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: spending on a lot, Maybe reduce the amounts of duplicates

734
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: that we purchase, the amount of just decor the things

735
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: that we think that we need. Can help us really

736
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: open our eyes to okay, but what do I have

737
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 3: already and start to build some of that contentment and

738
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: also the repulsion of decluttering that I never want to

739
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 3: have to do that again. Oh, I'm not going to

740
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: purchase things to refill this house again.

741
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

742
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: I mean we've all been there where we bought something

743
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: and we're like, already have that. I found it like

744
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: two months later, right after putting the light bulbin or

745
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: whatever it is that we ordered a second time. And Yeah,

746
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: I think the more we are organized like it, clean space,

747
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: clean brain. But I'm curious too, Jen, what do you

748
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: think like about kind of our overall culture from a

749
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: self reliance standpoint? Instead of asking your neighbor for a

750
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: cup of sugar, now we can instacart it, yet it's

751
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 2: gonna cost us a whole lot more. It feels like

752
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 2: this is part of it and that and that maybe

753
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 2: we've kind of become so bought into this self reliance

754
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: thing to such an extreme that we're unwill willing to

755
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 2: ask our neighbor for something, even though it probably actually

756
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: aids in our relationship, in our friendship over time, and

757
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 2: it also helps us save money. Is there something I'm

758
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: getting in that?

759
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 3: Well?

760
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, our country was founded on the desire for self reliance,

761
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 4: so it is literally ingrained in the foundation of where

762
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 4: we live. Is this desire to not be beholden to

763
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 4: essentially a monarchy?

764
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: Thanks piritance?

765
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 4: You know, So we have just like taken that and everything.

766
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 4: So much of technology has gone towards that because it

767
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 4: is such an American value that it's very marketable, and

768
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 4: I believe that it has been taken to an extreme

769
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 4: that is really detrimental not just to our finances, but

770
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 4: just to our mental health and how disconnected we can

771
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 4: be from each other, and so we are seen like

772
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 4: if we're relying on someone that we are not successful,

773
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 4: or that we're mooching or just you know, any we

774
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 4: don't want to be seen as a burden. Yet if

775
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 4: somebody asked us for help, we'd be more than happy

776
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 4: to help them, like whether they're in you know, dire

777
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 4: need or just we're willing to ask, right, But we're

778
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 4: not willing to ask, And that's just a cultural thing

779
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: that has been like ingrained in us and fueled by capitalism.

780
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 4: And so I think we really need to fight those

781
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 4: feelings of like asking for not help, but like connectedness

782
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 4: and sharing resources is not a sign of weakness, but

783
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 4: it is a sign of wanting to be connected.

784
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, I think I think we could

785
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: all use a little more connection in our lives. And oftentimes,

786
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: instead of reaching out to other people, we tend to

787
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: consume our way out of any sort of little predicament

788
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 1: we might.

789
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: Find come so much easier too, right, just to click

790
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 2: the button one click to buy. It shows up on

791
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: my doorstep, even in hours instead of days, And so

792
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: I don't even need to ask my neighbor next door

793
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: for the butter.

794
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: It's just gonna come to me. But ladies, we've got

795
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: more that we want to get to. Actually, we're getting

796
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: close to Christmas, and so we got some I guess

797
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 1: some practical questions to get to. We'll get to all

798
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: that right after this. All right, we're back.

799
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: We're still talking to with Jen and Jill from the

800
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: Frugal Friends podcast. We're talking about buying stuff and and

801
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: hopefully just some good advice about to help us be

802
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: able to buy the things that we actually want without

803
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: screwing up our finances in the process. And ladies, we

804
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: are getting close to Christmas, and I don't know, I

805
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: would be curious to know actually how they had the

806
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: money audience is doing as far as like what percentage

807
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: of the gifts they've planned to buy have they actually

808
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: bought already they're wrapped under the tree line now, I

809
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: would hope, so those planners, right, but like you know,

810
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 2: almost everyone feels compelled to spend to express their love

811
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: at one time or the other. And that's not always bad,

812
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: like buying an engagement ring for my wife that was

813
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: like one of the best purchases I've ever made. But

814
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: how do you think about spending to show affection, especially

815
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: during the holidays.

816
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 3: I think you do not have to spend money to

817
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 3: make the season magical or to tell people that you

818
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: care about them. That doesn't mean you don't have to

819
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: spend all together, but I do. For Jen and I,

820
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 3: we've both made lists of the things that we will

821
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: spend money on this holiday season, and the things that

822
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 3: are easy knows for us, we are not going to

823
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 3: spend on these things, and that has really helped to

824
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: free up feeling really confident about spending on the things

825
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: that are these intentional. We've already made a plan for it.

826
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 3: This is actually going to be fulfilling versus the things

827
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: that maybe everybody else is doing or it's kind of obligatory.

828
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 3: But I've learned I don't need to spend on that

829
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 3: to really enjoy this time or to tell people that

830
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: I care about them. I think that a well written

831
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 3: letter to somebody encouraging them, telling them what they mean

832
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 3: to you can be far better than some lackluster, cheap

833
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 3: five ten dollars whatever that you bought because you just

834
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 3: thought you had to so. And I probably even no

835
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 3: gift is better than a TACKI gift, but absolutely being

836
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 3: able to identify in what ways could I really encourage

837
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 3: this person or build them up. The things that I've

838
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: kept from friends are the pictures that they sent to

839
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 3: me or a letter of encouragement. I can't really tell

840
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 3: you any other small gift that I've been given that

841
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: I've kept or even remember who gave to me. But

842
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 3: absolutely I keep the meaningful cards and notes and again

843
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: pictures sent that illicit memories together. So I think being

844
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 3: thoughtful this season and considering how can I enjoy the

845
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 3: things that make me feel festive without spending where it's

846
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 3: not necessary.

847
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 4: And I feel similarly to Jill, but I have a

848
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 4: mother who wants to give gifts more than she wants

849
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 4: to like, listen when I say that I don't need.

850
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: One, and there's a mom Yeah right.

851
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people who gift giving is their

852
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 4: love language and they just want to do it, and

853
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 4: so for them, if that's you. Then I think investing

854
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 4: in local businesses or organizations is a fantastic way to

855
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 4: live out that desire and that value for you. And

856
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 4: even if you like, the person is going to appreciate

857
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 4: that you invested in something local. So for me, I know,

858
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 4: I'm gonna end up giving a few gifts like white

859
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 4: elephant or just random peace people. And so what I

860
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 4: did was I went to a local succulent shop and

861
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 4: I bought a couple of their three dollars succulents. And

862
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 4: then I went to the thrift store and I got

863
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 4: a couple you know bowls or you know, cute planters,

864
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 4: and I will plant succulents in thrifted bowls. And so

865
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 4: I have. I have invested in two different local like

866
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 4: a business and a local organization, and I feel good

867
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 4: about that. So even if the person may not like

868
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 4: love that gift, I feel really good about where my

869
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 4: money has gone in the community.

870
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: Very cool. Have y'all either of y'all set like hard

871
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: budget amounts for how much you're looking to spend this Christmas,

872
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: this holiday season? Yeah?

873
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 3: I every month put aside money for the holidays because

874
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 3: I do enjoy it so much, and I yes, I

875
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: beg right, you I'm guessing just.

876
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: Follows her heart.

877
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 4: I absolutely just follow my heart to the original budget

878
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 4: budgeting question.

879
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: But that's I mean, that's exactly what.

880
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 4: I feel so seen, And I don't know if that's

881
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 4: a good thing.

882
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: But it is good.

883
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 3: It helps me to even look back on years prior.

884
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 3: Then thankfully we can do that with the internet, to

885
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 3: identify what have I spent on years prior, how much

886
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 3: should I maybe anticipate spending this year, What did I

887
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 3: enjoy spending on, what did I not this year? My

888
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 3: husband and I have decided, even though I put money

889
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 3: aside for the holidays, that we are not giving gifts

890
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 3: to each other. Last year we did it and we

891
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 3: returned both of us every single thing that we got

892
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 3: for each other. That now I'm just like, it's not

893
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: we're not doing it. That's not going to happen. But

894
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 3: what we do really love is hosting people in our

895
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 3: home and eating good food and maybe going to a

896
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: concert or an event of some sort. And so that's

897
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 3: what our money that I have set aside is going

898
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 3: to go to. We're just going to eat really well.

899
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: All right, last question for you guys, how has value

900
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: based spending changed your life, and combined with that, what

901
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 2: are your biggest spending struggles currently?

902
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 4: So it has given me a lot of freedom to spend.

903
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 4: I have gone back and forth when when we were

904
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 4: paying off debt, my husband and I, I felt guilty

905
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 4: every purchase I made. Even if I'd made a budget

906
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 4: and I had but put money in the budget for

907
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 4: something I still spent. I felt guilty spending on it

908
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 4: because it wasn't the quote unquote best use of the money.

909
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 4: And then once we were done, I couldn't get myself

910
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 4: to spend money because I was like, we now we

911
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 4: got to reach financial independence and invest it all. But

912
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 4: then I ended up just reverting to my old ways

913
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 4: of like mindless spending for a little while, and I

914
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 4: was like, I'll just make as much money as possible.

915
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 4: And so it was really in that season where I

916
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 4: had to just I like, what is enough? What is

917
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 4: enough to earn? What is enough to spend? And once

918
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 4: I started asking myself nuanced questions and started rewriting the

919
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 4: rules that I had, you know, been reading through all

920
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 4: these personal finance books and started innovating and making my

921
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 4: own rules. And that was values based spending, values based

922
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 4: spending isn't a set of rules. It is a guideline essentially,

923
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 4: a framework to help you make your own rules. And

924
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 4: that created a lot of freedom for me to say

925
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 4: yes to more things that I value, and also to

926
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 4: say no to things that, yeah, I may like and

927
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 4: I may value, but I know I value something else

928
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 4: more and I don't feel deprived. I just I want

929
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,919
Speaker 4: to live the fullest life possible, and I've defined what that.

930
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 3: Is for me. I'm going to steal the word that

931
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 3: Jen just used, but I would agree that it is.

932
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 3: It is freedom and flexibility for me, not just for myself,

933
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 3: but I think for those around me. Recognizing that spending

934
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 3: and managing money is not a one size fits all.

935
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: I think values based spending recognizes that and creates room

936
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 3: for everybody to find their own kind of radical middle

937
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 3: the things that they want to spend on and feel

938
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 3: really confident in their money management, and that it's okay

939
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 3: if it looks different for me than it does for

940
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 3: gen or anybody else. And I think has really increased

941
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 3: my confidence in the money decisions that I make, my intentionality,

942
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 3: the way that I consume to not feel guilty about

943
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 3: spending wildly on travel, but being okay with being a

944
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 3: one vehicle household and hardly ever buying new clothes because

945
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 3: I've really identified it's okay if you think it's not

946
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: frugal for me to have the most expensive travel plans,

947
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: but here's where I make it work for our situation.

948
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: So I have really loved kind of leaning into that

949
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: and just the confidence that it brings. And I would

950
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 3: say the area of spending that is still a sore

951
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 3: subject for me. It's always going to be food. I've

952
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 3: definitely given myself a lot more freedom in Okay, this

953
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 3: is just the amount of money that I like to

954
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 3: spend on food. I think other people would balk at

955
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 3: the amount of money that I spend for two people,

956
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 3: but it it is what works for us. But I'm

957
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 3: I'm constantly in this ebb and flow of all right,

958
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 3: we got to rein it in.

959
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: I think it's a sore subject for like everyone too

960
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: right now, Like partly it's the past four years especially, Yeah,

961
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 2: so like partly everyone looks at that and they're like, man,

962
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 2: they're beating themselves up, even though it's just market conditions

963
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: to a certain example.

964
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think my biggest struggle is never thinking that

965
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 4: I earn enough, even if the income and expenses are aligned.

966
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 4: But I've just always been a like income is never enough,

967
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 4: sort of like mindset always growing up the we never

968
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 4: make enough money, and so I still struggle with with

969
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,399
Speaker 4: that part, which is why I'm not like a earn

970
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 4: money online influencer or anything.

971
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 1: Well. I think somebody wrote in a book that maybe

972
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: creativity is a solution, Jen, but I don't know if

973
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 1: you can find that and buy what you love without.

974
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 4: Going I mean, my full time job is a podcaster.

975
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 1: So I appreciate y'all sharing, and I love what y'all

976
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: are saying here, and Jill specifically you talking about y'all

977
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 1: being a one car family, have an old old ready clothes.

978
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: My clothes are ready, but I think.

979
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: I may have overstepped. I apologize just making.

980
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 3: My own shower.

981
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: It's hard to look at you, but we really appreciate

982
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: y'all coming on. We're going to make sure to link

983
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: to the book, which comes out January seventh, by What

984
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: you Love Without Going Broke. And Jen and Jill thank

985
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today on the podcast.

986
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 3: Thanks for having us. It's been a blast, so fun.

987
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, that was a good convo. It was

988
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: great man and the Jol and Matt equivalents over there

989
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: at the Frugal Friends podcast a Our Spirits Sisters. That's

990
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: for sure. Totally all right. So what what was your

991
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: big takeaway from this combo mine? I guess this is

992
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: a takeaway. It's funny because I'm going to push back

993
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: like the tiniest little bit, which is so contrarian because

994
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: literally everything they say. It's funny because like last week,

995
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: we talked with somebody who everything she said we kind

996
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: of disagreed with at least, you know, when it comes

997
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: to traditional personal where we came to some of the

998
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: conclusions from yeah yeah, but like literally everything Jen and

999
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: Jill are saying it's like, I mean, totally within the

1000
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: wielhouse of what we talk about here on the show.

1001
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: But at one point when we're talking about I forget

1002
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: the context, but they were hating on the why question,

1003
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: like why do you spend money on this? And I

1004
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: don't And I want to push back just respectfully, and

1005
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,439
Speaker 1: they're not even here to defend themselves, but I think

1006
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: it's okay for us to ask the question why. But

1007
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: it all comes down to, like the tone and the

1008
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: attitude in the heart behind the self examination, or like

1009
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 1: don't call yourself an idiot while you're doing it, yeah,

1010
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: or like there's a big difference between thinking through, man,

1011
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: why do I want to spend money on that? Right?

1012
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,919
Speaker 1: Versus why would you spend money on that?

1013
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 2: Like there's there's a massive difference there, and you can

1014
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 2: be a curious aren't angry?

1015
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,479
Speaker 1: Why exactly? And so maybe that's what we were talking about.

1016
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 1: Maybe we were talking about the curiosity aspects one of

1017
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: the subskills when it comes to spending money in a

1018
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: healthy way. But I think it's really important for us

1019
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: to ask the question like why, like what is it

1020
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: about this thing? Because what you're doing is you're you know,

1021
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: you're peeling back the layers of the onion, trying to

1022
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 1: get at the root of the thing, as opposed to

1023
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: just being satisfied on the surface with a purchase that

1024
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: may or may not cost you a ton of money,

1025
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: but in real maybe there's something a little bit deeper down.

1026
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: Maybe you can get closer to the root of the issue,

1027
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: and maybe that doesn't even cost money. It's totally okay

1028
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: to spend money, but it's I think, like they were

1029
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: talking about, really important to identify why it is, what

1030
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: it is that we're seeking to modify to fulfill, to

1031
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,959
Speaker 1: find fulfillment, and you know with some of these different

1032
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: purchases that we make.

1033
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my big takeaway that was when Jill

1034
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: talked about pie.

1035
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: She said person in environment, Uh huh. I love that.

1036
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: I thought it was so good and she she specifically

1037
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: called out clutter kryptonite, and I was like, oh man,

1038
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 2: this is so interesting how the environment we find ourselves

1039
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: in more humans, right. But you can put yourself in

1040
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 2: one situation and it's incredibly stressful and you're going to

1041
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: react in one way, and you can put yourself in

1042
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: another situation that's incredibly soothing, and you're going to react

1043
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: in another. If I'm hanging out in a hammock or

1044
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 2: if I'm in an escape room, I'm going to act

1045
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: differently in both contexts. And so I think where we

1046
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 2: place ourselves matters. The things that we're putting in front

1047
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: of our eyeballs constantly are attracting our attention, and they're

1048
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: suddenly changing the way that we think about life. What matters?

1049
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: What how are our spending is going to impact our happiness?

1050
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 2: My mom Matt always used to say when I was

1051
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: a kid, garbage in, garbage out, And I think as

1052
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: a culture we're in wise, we're putting so much garbage

1053
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 2: into our lives, into our brains when it comes to

1054
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 2: what we're consuming, and the people were following on social

1055
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: media and stuff like that, And then if we were

1056
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: just to reduce the amount of garbage going into our brains,

1057
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: there's a good chance we'd keep more of our money

1058
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: in our wallets too.

1059
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: Totally agree, man. The beer that you and I enjoyed

1060
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: during this episode was a ten fitty, which is an

1061
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: Imperial Stout by Oscar Blues Brewery. Another one we recently

1062
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: had on we didn't have on We enjoyed a Dale's

1063
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,479
Speaker 1: Pale Ale. Yeah. But this is, yeah, like I said,

1064
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: an imperial stout.

1065
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: What'd you think, man, this is what a classic stout

1066
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: is supposed to taste like. Yeah, it is big, burly,

1067
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 2: it's roasty, it's not fancy, like he doesn't have all

1068
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: these adjuncts and stuff added into it.

1069
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: But it's legit. I like that, you said, Burley, this

1070
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: is like a lumberjack of a stout. Yes, yes, this

1071
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: is what you imagine like a two hundred and eighty

1072
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: pound Lumberjack, like it only does a couple things, but

1073
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: it does it really well.

1074
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 2: Right wielding a big ax after a long day of

1075
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: chopping down trees is the beer he drinks.

1076
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: And looking awesome while you're at it? No, yeah, I

1077
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: wrote down it's dark and oily like it is almost

1078
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: kind of slick, which then made me think of, like,

1079
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: not like slick as in Weasley, but like, I don't know, oily,

1080
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: And it also made me think of soy sauce, Like

1081
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: this beer had almost like a soy sauce kind of undertone,

1082
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: which I think there's a lot more soy sauce in

1083
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: my life than there is a life tole but you'll

1084
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:29,479
Speaker 1: just have to take my word for it. But soy

1085
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: sauce in the best kind of way when it comes

1086
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: to a stout. But I like soy sauce, but I

1087
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: don't imbibe it merely a much. You don't get through

1088
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: as much of it. You guzzle that stuff. Yeah, just

1089
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: before we recorded this episode, took my six ounces. Yeah,

1090
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: but always do that right after lunch here you go, No,

1091
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: I don't, but we do go through a good amount

1092
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: soy shots and our household of six. But that is

1093
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: going to be it for this episode. You can find

1094
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: our show notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com,

1095
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: and we will be sure to link to Jen and

1096
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: Jill's not not only their book, but also their podcast

1097
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: if you want to check it out as well. For sure, Buddy,

1098
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: that's going to be it for this one. Until next time,

1099
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,479
Speaker 1: best Friends Out and best Friends Out.