1
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,039
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Save for Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm

2
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,440
Speaker 1: Annis and I'm Lareen vocal Baum, and today we have

3
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,079
Speaker 1: an episode for you about Garum. Yes, and it's a

4
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 1: wild ride. It is a wild ride, truly, truly, Like

5
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me how much has been written about

6
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 1: this thing, how much science has been done about this thing,

7
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: and it kind of almost died out. Yeah, it's sort

8
00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 1: of low key didn't exist for about a thousand years, right,

9
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: but now I mean pretty recently people have really got

10
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 1: it back. Yeah, yeah, it is back, and certainly we

11
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 1: see its influence in a lot of stuff, stuff that

12
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 1: we've talked about before, and we have talked about it

13
00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 1: in those histories before. Yes, it has come up in

14
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: quite a few episodes, perhaps particularly catch up anchovies Wos

15
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,200
Speaker 1: to Shire to Shires to Sure that's how they say it,

16
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: Scooby Doo, but I've heard that that's not correct one

17
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,320
Speaker 1: of those also, Soy sauce U. But yeah, it has.

18
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 1: And when I was researching this, it was really fun

19
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh this, I remember reading about

20
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,680
Speaker 1: this in another episode that isn't any of those episodes.

21
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,280
Speaker 1: So it has had like a long reach for something

22
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 1: it kind of wasn't around for a while. Yeah. Yeah,

23
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 1: it's pretty neat and actually an episode that's coming out soon.

24
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 1: When I was researching it, Gara, I'm showed up. Very cool,

25
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 1: very cool. All right. Um, well, yeah, I guess I

26
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: guess I should say, like, like, I don't think I

27
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,000
Speaker 1: have ever had this. I've never knowingly had it. If

28
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 1: it has been in anything I've eaten, I was not

29
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 1: personally informed of that fact me as well. I think

30
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 1: I've had something something very similar in flavor profile. Um,

31
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I've ever had the quote

32
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 1: real thing sure, yeah, which people fight about so oh

33
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,960
Speaker 1: absolutely that too. Yeah. Yeah, I've certainly had fermented fish

34
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 1: sauces before, lots of that, but usually more in the

35
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 1: like Southeast Asian style, right exactly, which we'll talk about briefly. Yeah.

36
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: But I guess this brings us to our question. Oh gosh,

37
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 1: it does. Hmm, well, gam what is it? Well, Garum

38
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: is a type of liquid seasoning made by salting and

39
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: fermenting fish and then straining out the solids, leaving you

40
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 1: with a thin, amber colored, translucent sauce that's that's so

41
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: savory and in salty. It might be seasoned with herbs

42
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 1: during the fermentation process, and that process also utilizes heat,

43
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 1: usually from sunlight, and the enzymes that are naturally present

44
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 1: in fish guts to help break the fish down. It

45
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 1: is primarily a historical sauce from the ancient Mediterranean, though

46
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 1: there are cultures that still create similar products and have

47
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,040
Speaker 1: been for this whole time. And as we just said,

48
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,799
Speaker 1: it is coming back today. I do not think I've

49
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,920
Speaker 1: had it, but I have the idea that it's like

50
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: a like a funky, briny, soy sauce, like like a catchup.

51
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 1: We're a fish broth, like like your fish broth is

52
00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 1: going through its dataist period. Like it is bold and

53
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:47,800
Speaker 1: a little absurd, and for the people, yes, and quite

54
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 1: strong from what I can ascertain, Yes, quite powerful, powerful

55
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 1: and flavored small amount. Oh yeah, yeah, that's its whole

56
00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 1: stick m hm. And yes, this episode is not about

57
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: East and Southeast Asian fish sauces. Those are whole separate

58
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: histories future episodes. Yes, oh yeah, okay, all right, so

59
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,560
Speaker 1: garum um. Different types and parts of fish can be

60
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 1: used for different effects in garam, but ideally, or perhaps typically,

61
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 1: you're looking to use whole, small, fatty fish like anchovies

62
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: or sardines, if not whole fish. You want to make

63
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 1: sure that some fish guts do make it in there,

64
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,840
Speaker 1: because they are a critical ingredient, and if you're using

65
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,280
Speaker 1: larger fish, cutting them up into pieces helps partially to

66
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 1: get those guts into the mix more readily. So to

67
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,240
Speaker 1: make garum, all right, you you alternate layers in a

68
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 1: vessel like a ceramic pot or a glass jar. You

69
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,239
Speaker 1: alternate layers of salt and your fish or your fish

70
00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,839
Speaker 1: parts whatever. You might also add in layers of fresh

71
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 1: herbs like like thyme, a regano, dill, and or parsley.

72
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,039
Speaker 1: You end it with a good layer of salt on

73
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,520
Speaker 1: the top and then put a flat weight on top

74
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 1: of that. The weight is so that as the fish

75
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 1: starts liquefying, the remaining solids stay submerged because liquefy it

76
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 1: shall that's a good thing. It's a good thing, okay,

77
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 1: all right, So yeah, you leave this jar or vessel

78
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,240
Speaker 1: in a warm place, like open sunlight, and let it

79
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: hang out for a few months, like at least three months,

80
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 1: probably these days more like six months to a year.

81
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 1: And while it sits, you've got a few things that

82
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,920
Speaker 1: are going to be going on. Some friendly microbes, like

83
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,919
Speaker 1: lactic acid bacteria are going to eat some of the

84
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 1: nutrients in the fish and break them down into other compounds.

85
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:52,960
Speaker 1: Bacteria pool flavor. Yeah, and the heat from the sunlight

86
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 1: is going to break down other compounds. And the enzymes

87
00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: in the fish guts. I think, the same one that

88
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 1: would have like helped the fish digest their food while

89
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 1: they were alive, are going to break down other other compounds.

90
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,720
Speaker 1: And so Yeah, some of those new compounds created from

91
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,839
Speaker 1: all of this may react with each other, producing more

92
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,960
Speaker 1: other compounds. And this whole complicated, interactive process of physical

93
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: and chemical decomposition over time results in a salty liquid

94
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,159
Speaker 1: containing a whole bunch of glutamates amino acids that that

95
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,359
Speaker 1: taste savory or umami, like um, the way that a

96
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: tomato or beef or mushrooms or ramen tastes savory. Yeah, um,

97
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,799
Speaker 1: plus some other flavors. Yeah. You then strain or drain

98
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,159
Speaker 1: off the liquid um it'll look like a like a

99
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,600
Speaker 1: watery maple syrup, and that is considered like the good stuff.

100
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 1: You can also press the remaining solids to produce sort

101
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 1: of like a second run that will be cloudier with sentiments.

102
00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:02,239
Speaker 1: With sediment it'll be cloudy, cloudy was sentiment. Oh gosh,

103
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,600
Speaker 1: I've been there. Um uh and um and yeah and

104
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,680
Speaker 1: then um. After you've done that, you can dry the

105
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 1: remaining solids into a sort of paste or like a

106
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000
Speaker 1: like a salt flake um, to use as a seasoning

107
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: as well. Historically, because salt was expensive, garam would have

108
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: used less salt than our tastes and fermentation practices generally

109
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 1: dictate today. Today's versions are probably oh gosh, like two

110
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 1: to two to three to four times as salty, like

111
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 1: quite a bit saltier, quite a bit saltier. Um and yeah.

112
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: It can be used in dishes or as a table

113
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 1: condiment or I don't know, like in drinks, Like think

114
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 1: about like a nice martini or a bloody mary with

115
00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,679
Speaker 1: a little dash a garam in it. M mmmmmm. Well

116
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 1: what about the nutrition? Garrem by itself is pretty pretty

117
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: okay for you. It's got like a punch of proteins,

118
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,040
Speaker 1: some good micronutrients, as we've been saying, a big flavor

119
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: bang for your caloric buck. Um. It can be heavy

120
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 1: on the salt. If that's something you're watching out for,

121
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: a watch out for that. Uh. You know, drink some water.

122
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 1: Always good, always good, always good. Uh well, I don't

123
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,440
Speaker 1: really have any numbers for you. We do, but they're

124
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 1: mostly historic numbers. Yeah. Yeah, we have a bunch of

125
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,000
Speaker 1: dates ish um in our history section. I think this

126
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 1: is the first time that I've ever just kind of

127
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:47,119
Speaker 1: come up completely bare of numbers for anything. So fun. Yeah,

128
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 1: well again, it's pretty it's like new newly being made together. Yeah,

129
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,080
Speaker 1: there's gone. Right, there's not really a global production and

130
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 1: it's tricky to track down what like quote unquote global

131
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 1: production was in its heyday, right, So, yes, but we

132
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: do have some numbers for you in the history section. Yes, yes,

133
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: we do, um, and we are going to get into

134
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 1: that as soon as we get back from a quick

135
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:24,680
Speaker 1: break forward from our sponsors and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,

136
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, So yeah, historians have really struggled to

137
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 1: nail down the history of garam, especially since the term

138
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 1: has been used to refer to a sauce or seasoning

139
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 1: using the cooking process also called liquomen and a condiment

140
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 1: composed primarily of fish, and I kind of depended on

141
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 1: the sources I used. I'm pretty sure sometimes it's used interchangeably.

142
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 1: But here we are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the condiment version

143
00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:02,400
Speaker 1: was primarily fish blood, I think, and liquiomen was referring

144
00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 1: to this amber colored sauce we've been talking about. But yeah,

145
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 1: I know there is like still confusion about this. It's

146
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 1: it's not just us, it's not just Usum. Historically, liquimen

147
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: was the amber sauce we've been talking about, and garum

148
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 1: was this related sauce incorporating fish blood that would have

149
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 1: been like black in color and and tasting a little

150
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,760
Speaker 1: bit of iron due to the blood content. Um. But

151
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 1: the thing is is that liquimen was a Roman word

152
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 1: for a Roman sauce developed out of a Greek sauce

153
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 1: called garros. And because garum and garos sauces are related anyway,

154
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 1: there was like some transliteration throughout history. Um, when other

155
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 1: people throughout time, we're writing about this stuff, and there

156
00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 1: is still argument about what all these terms mean. Um,

157
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,679
Speaker 1: But right, the amber sauce is the one we are

158
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 1: largely talking about today and we are calling a garam

159
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 1: and that is what is up. Yep, that is what

160
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 1: is up for sure. Oh my, oh my. Well on

161
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,720
Speaker 1: that note, yes, fermented fish sauces are ancient, they do

162
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: exist all over. One of the earliest records we have

163
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,560
Speaker 1: of one such sauce comes out of fifth century BC Grease,

164
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 1: describing an amber colored sauce of small fermented fish and salts.

165
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 1: In the first century BCE, Horace wrote of Spanish garam,

166
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,079
Speaker 1: specifically citing their fish salting facilities and their general domination

167
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 1: in this area of the processed fish market. Yeah, and

168
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 1: there were like large scale facilities like fish sauce was

169
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: apparently the only large scale factory industry that was happening

170
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,079
Speaker 1: in the air area during the last few centuries b C.

171
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,120
Speaker 1: And Rome went on to kind of popularize it, but

172
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 1: they picked it up from the Greeks, and they liked

173
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,040
Speaker 1: the stuff from Spain the best. So it is truly

174
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 1: a inter intra Mediterranean situation, right, And I've seen a

175
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,200
Speaker 1: lot of arguments about that as well, because a lot

176
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,680
Speaker 1: of times you'll read it as like Rome's lost fish

177
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: sauce or something like ancient room saust fishaus Some people

178
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:37,199
Speaker 1: are like, actually, not quite true. But since ancient times,

179
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,200
Speaker 1: the Greeks and Romans have adored garum. They wrote about

180
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,320
Speaker 1: it a lot. Plenty of the elder wrote about it

181
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: in first century CE, describing it as a quote exquisite

182
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 1: sauce and quote a choice liquor consisting of the guts

183
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 1: of fish and the other parts that would otherwise be

184
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: considered refuse. People did probably use it as a condiment,

185
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,080
Speaker 1: while like we've been saying, a little goes a long way,

186
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 1: that was shrewd back then as well. It was frequently

187
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,319
Speaker 1: used with meat or combined with other liquids and seasonings

188
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 1: to make something else. Yeah. Yeah, it was used right

189
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,200
Speaker 1: as a table condiment in place of salt. Like it

190
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,559
Speaker 1: was more popular, way more popular as a table condiment

191
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,840
Speaker 1: than salt was for a long time. It was also

192
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,440
Speaker 1: used in recipes or mixed with seasonings plus like vinegar

193
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 1: or wine or oil to make different types of sauces. Yeah. Yes.

194
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons it was so popular was

195
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 1: because it was a useful and tasty way to preserve

196
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 1: fish while also providing a good punch of protein. The

197
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,840
Speaker 1: thinner varieties were more prized, and some of the quote

198
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,320
Speaker 1: weaker types were used as rations for the Roman army,

199
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 1: for instance, And the price and quality could vary wildly.

200
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,679
Speaker 1: A nice bottle of garum could run you about five

201
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: hundred dollars in today's money, but cheap bottles were popular

202
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 1: amongst the impovers. So just huge range, full scale yeah um.

203
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,080
Speaker 1: And I read in one source that they might have

204
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 1: been even more expensive than that, like the equivalent of

205
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 1: like five thousand dollars today hoofta. Yeah um, but yeah um.

206
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 1: The so so right that that clear amber stuff was

207
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 1: the most expensive. Those cloudy pressings after the clear stuff

208
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,080
Speaker 1: was drained off were cheaper. That was called alex Alex alex.

209
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 1: Yeah sure um. And then right those those solids leftover

210
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: solids turned into paste or flake. We were more affordable still, right,

211
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 1: And it's hard to hard to stress enough. The Romans

212
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 1: loved it. They loved they loved it so much they

213
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 1: developed these new trade routes, at least in part to

214
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 1: have easier access to large scale garam production sites as

215
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 1: far away as North Africa. Like they weren't even they

216
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 1: weren't able to get enough for the demand, yeah, in

217
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 1: their areas. So they were like, well, well let's go.

218
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 1: I did read I only saw this in like a

219
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: couple of places, but I read that some areas had

220
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,720
Speaker 1: restrictions on where new garam production areas could be constructed.

221
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: Because the smell was so strong. I have also heard okay,

222
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 1: so um. Our our friend, doctor Julius Skinner, does have

223
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: a recipe for garum in the book that we were

224
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 1: talking with her about a couple months ago, Our Fermented Lives,

225
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: and she notes there that like, she's never had a

226
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 1: smell problem with the garum itself, but um, but if

227
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 1: you're drying out those those those remains, the solids, that

228
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 1: that is a thing she I think the way she

229
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 1: put it was, um, if you don't live alone or

230
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: have a very forgiving housemate, be cautious. Good note yes,

231
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: at any rate. Garm was also used medicinely for both

232
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 1: humans and animals, for all kinds of things. Oh my goodness,

233
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 1: I even saw crocodile bite crocodile. Okay, sure, yes, yes,

234
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound good, but all right. At the time

235
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 1: garum it frequently consisted of fish, usually small fatty fish,

236
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 1: but really whatever was available left to putrefy in open containers,

237
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: often with any available herbs and spices, and sometimes even

238
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,440
Speaker 1: wine would be added in. It wasn't the easiest process.

239
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,640
Speaker 1: The smell, yes, was particularly rough by a lot of

240
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 1: accounts I read, and the task was often forced upon

241
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 1: enslaved people and ancient room or laborers, and they would

242
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,120
Speaker 1: get the fish. They would put them in clay pots

243
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 1: and then cover them with brine, a brine of seed

244
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: water and salts, along with any herbs and spices that

245
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 1: they wanted, and then leave them to ferment for up

246
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 1: to a year. These vats used for making garam have

247
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 1: been discovered all over from Tunisia to France. However, these

248
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: vessels didn't have the organic residue to concretely prove garam

249
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: was being made in them that researchers wanted, but that

250
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 1: has changed more recently that in a second tea there.

251
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 1: One of the earliest descriptions we have of the process

252
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 1: of making garam dates back to twenty to thirty CE,

253
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,439
Speaker 1: when a Latin poet observed fisherman salting the blood of

254
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,959
Speaker 1: their catch of tuna for the sauce. Again, here's kind

255
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,199
Speaker 1: of our confusion about what we're talking about here, but

256
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,479
Speaker 1: he observed too that smaller fish would be caught and

257
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 1: put in clay pots, where quote their inward parts melt

258
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 1: and issue forth as a stream of decomposition. A recipe

259
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: for gaham appeared in the Epicius as well, and following

260
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,920
Speaker 1: that recipe, garam was used in pretty much every other

261
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 1: recipe in there. Yes, yeah, yeah, And it does feature

262
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 1: in several written works from that time, and from that

263
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 1: we know the finest garam was sometimes given as a gift.

264
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 1: On the other hand, another work sarcastically commence anyone who

265
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 1: can still have feelings for a woman who has had

266
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: six helpings of quote putred garum, which somebody calculated to

267
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 1: be about half a pint. Wow, like a lot that. Yes,

268
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: someone else decried the smell of garam tinged burbs even

269
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 1: the day after eating it. It's actually a really excellent

270
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: burn description. Wow o right. Yeah. In the second century CE,

271
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: Artemidoros wrote, to drink fish sauce signifies to ka for

272
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: fish sauce is nothing more than putrefaction. I do love

273
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: this quote comes up in a lot of sources about it,

274
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: and I love how many people who are currently trying

275
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 1: to make it or get to the bottom of it

276
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: are like, again, well, actually that's not what. At one

277
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: point Christianity forbade the consumption of animal blood, including that

278
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:12,160
Speaker 1: of fish, which did impact how garam was made. Some

279
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 1: argue that the Romans introduced garam to Asia via trade routes.

280
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: Others argue that Asia developed their own independently, while others

281
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: argue both could be the case. Again, those are other episodes. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

282
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm I'm nearly I mean it only again, it's one

283
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: of those things that only makes sense that if you

284
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: have salt, which you do, if you're buy a salt

285
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 1: water body, and you have fish, which you do, if

286
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 1: you're buy a saltwater body, then you would probably combine

287
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 1: them in this way and you would probably it keeps

288
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,879
Speaker 1: fairly well if you keep it well bottled, so it

289
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 1: would probably fly along these trade routes, right, yeah, yeah.

290
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 1: I also think some of that comes down to how

291
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 1: extremely precise people are being about what they consider garam sure,

292
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 1: oh totally. Yeah. Um an eleventh century book that spanned

293
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: a whole like a lot of time, So while it

294
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 1: was published in the eleventh century, a lot of stuff

295
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: in it is way earlier than that. Hopefully that makes sense.

296
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah um. I had a very

297
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: detailed description of how garum was made, and it included

298
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: several recipes for the preparation of garam. Yeah um, and

299
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: at different times in in this entire millennia, that was

300
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: it's kind of heyday. Different types of fish were most

301
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 1: common or most most preferred. Mackerel was probably most common

302
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the time. But yeah, you've also got

303
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: those those anchovies coming in, and I think tuna was

304
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: considered just real posh, perhaps especially towards the end of

305
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 1: Garam's heyday. That's the thing. It's a vibe I'm getting.

306
00:20:55,359 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 1: I got that vibe as well. Okay, but okay, what

307
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: happened to the heyday? It rained from millennia and then

308
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 1: and then there were a couple of things that were

309
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 1: at play here. One of the big ones was the

310
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: fall of the Roman Empire, which this is a food show,

311
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: but basically allowed for these heavier taxes on salts, which

312
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: drove up the price of garam. Another thing, easier and

313
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: cheaper substitutions or replacements. So in Asia, for instance, the

314
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 1: record shows that fish sauces were widely used up until

315
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: about the fourteenth century when soy sauce came onto the

316
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 1: scene and largely took these the place of these fish sauces.

317
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 1: And we did talk about that in our soy Sauce episode. Yeah, pirates.

318
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: Pirates also played a role in the virtual disappearance of

319
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 1: Garam for a while, cities, industries, and boats no longer

320
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: had the protection of the Romans in this area, and

321
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: they could be attacked or destroyed by pirates at any time.

322
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. At a certain point, right, like salt, and

323
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 1: like table salt in particular, became an easier, cheaper substitute

324
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: than processing salt with the fish and the whole thing.

325
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 1: So it was just like, what, why don't we just

326
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: skip to straight to that thing? Yeah right, keep it simple, yeah,

327
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: keep it simple. Speaking of the opposite of that, there

328
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: was a whole essay I found written about Garam and

329
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: how it worked within the Humors, which we've also done

330
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: an episode of Oh sure, and it just gave me

331
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: a headache, but they did think about it and that

332
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: was the whole source of conversation as well. But okay,

333
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: this we're jumping way ahead now, Yeah, right, because several

334
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: recent discoveries have kick started the interest in understanding and

335
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: recreating ancient Garam. So in two thousand and one, divers

336
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: discovered a merchant ship carrying two thousand, five hundred jars

337
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: capable of holding ten gallons of garum. Wow. What yeah, yeah,

338
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: a lot. It was very very popular everybody. Okay, yes,

339
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: and then this is sort of the thing I too

340
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: used at earlier. Our understanding of gam changed in two

341
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: thousand and nine when researchers found six sealed, large clay

342
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: vessels in the area of Pompeii that they've come to

343
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: call the garum shop. All right, it's seriously. There are

344
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: old timy ads they uncovered advertising this place that was

345
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: like this fellow makes the best garum the side of whatever.

346
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of cute. And then there's this mosaic

347
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: and Pompeii that depicts pictures of garum. Okay, so yeah,

348
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: pretty popular. So when Mount Vesuvius erupted in seventy nine CE,

349
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: the resulting ash served as this perfect method for preserving

350
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 1: the sealed containers, and food technicians stepped in. They followed

351
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: this recipe for garam from the third century CE that

352
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: called for heavily salted, fermented fish, fennel, dill, coriander, and

353
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,719
Speaker 1: some other dried herbs, and they recreated a version of

354
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: this ancient garam. Or did they, Because yes, people do

355
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: like to fight about this in a very I would say,

356
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: fond way. Yeah, but yes, some people do question it's

357
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: authenticity both in what was produced and the actual date

358
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: of the recipe when that was produced. And they used

359
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: some like really cool CSI sound you can read all

360
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: about it is fascinating to identify the fish used in

361
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: these ancient bats, and they identified it as anchovies. And

362
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: they also detected mint, oregano, sage, and time as some

363
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: of the seasonings that were used. And I know it's

364
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: really it's really cool. They weren't done experimenting. In order

365
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: to replicate the conditions of folks making Garham two thousand

366
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: years ago, or to the best that they could, they

367
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: built these huge vats on a beach near them about

368
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: the fermentation process still hadn't reached an end after six

369
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: months had passed, and I think they were like it

370
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: hadn't even gotten close. Like they were like, something's not

371
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: working here, oh yeah, huh, well yeah yeah yeah. And

372
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: I think that the writing about that happened in November

373
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, so and I have not I've

374
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: not followed up on that research. I'm sure it's ongoing.

375
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: I hope so heck, I hope so too. Let us know.

376
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: Twenty ten analysis of Ancient Garam. Ancient Garam remains out

377
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: of Pompeii and then comparing it to modern fish sauces

378
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: from Southeast Asia found that they do have very similar

379
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: flavor profiles. Oh cool Hu, an ancient condiment factory that

380
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: was used for making garam, was discovered in what is

381
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: now southern Israel and twenty nineteen, so a lot of

382
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: this research is pretty recent, is ongoing, and as we've

383
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: been saying, garham has seen this surge and in popularity,

384
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: whether it's just people wanting to learn more about it

385
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: or people wanting to use it and try it in

386
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: recent years, especially in Spain and Italy where chefs are

387
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: experimenting with ancient recipes and modern ingredients and taste. You

388
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: can even buy garam online and of course you can

389
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: see its footprints in sauces like wish to Shire, wish

390
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: to Shire. WHI sure that one, yeah, yeah, yeah, which

391
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: isn't the same, but it's definitely like it's in the

392
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: family it is. I love it, I read and I

393
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: would love if listeners could write in about this. But

394
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: like in Spain, some like tourist shops and like it.

395
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: I think even airports sell it. Yeah, there's a couple

396
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: like like kind to Bougie name brands of garem floating

397
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: around like like posh chefs are making it now? Mmm

398
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: oh so interesting? Yeah, so interesting. Yeah. I love all

399
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: of this, you know, just just just humans affinity for savory,

400
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: for like umami um is so pervasive and long reaching,

401
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: and and also the weird heck and ways that we

402
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: come up with for preserving or or or using the

403
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: scraps of what you know, like you take away the

404
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: good cut of fish, you have the guts and the bones,

405
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? I don't know, packham

406
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: and salt until it's sauce. That's cool, Like, that's so

407
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: cool it is and like modernly that sounds a little

408
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: weird and gross to most of us, probably like it

409
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the first thing that I would think to

410
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: do with something, but but man, it makes so much sense.

411
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: It does, it really does. And it had quite the heyday, Yeah,

412
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: quite the following. Um. I love it. I can't I

413
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: can't wait to revisit this one. Yes, oh oh absolutely yeah,

414
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see to see what we can

415
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: find about other types of fish sauces. I mean, you know, us,

416
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: every time we get to talk about fermentation, we're psyched um.

417
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: But but yeah, and I hope that Garm has another

418
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 1: thousand years. Yes, yes, yes, well that is what we

419
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: have to say about Garam for now. It is it is.

420
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: We do have some listenermail for you, though, and we

421
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: are going to get into that as soon as we

422
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: get back from one more quick break for a word

423
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes,

424
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: thank you, And we're back with the fish getting ferment

425
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: I was one of my more complicated than it was

426
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: it was, but no that certainly, I'm not sure if

427
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: we pulled it off audiently, but but your your gesticulation

428
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: and facial expression did indicate a fish being extremely confused

429
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: about its own future faction. So so there you go.

430
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: Oh thank you, I did so only you that gets

431
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: to witness these well. Florence wrote a longtime a listener,

432
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: first time writer. Anyway, I just started the episode on

433
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: Googy Ducks, and at first I had no idea what

434
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: it was. But as soon as Laurence started describing it,

435
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: I was pretty convinced it was a parlored royal, one

436
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: of the French names for it it was. I decided

437
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't let you go without the absolute masterpiece. That

438
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: is this blooper reel from a Quebec cooking show. The

439
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: video is in French, with one having a Quebec Vietnamese

440
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: accent and other having a Quebec Senegalese accent, but they

441
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: are automatically automated subtitles. Oh okay, I watched this video.

442
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: You don't even need to know what they're saying. To

443
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: be honest, I laughed so hard when they just plopped

444
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: the gooey duck out and everyone just died. I don't

445
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: think I had seen a video, so I'd seen a

446
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of pictures. It was funny, Thank you for sure.

447
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh goodness. If you'd never seen video before,

448
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: that was a treat, I'm sure mm it was. I

449
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: laughed pretty hard, so highly recommend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you.

450
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Oh heck um. Mic wrote I'm originally from the Saint Louis,

451
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: Missouri area, and some people find our way to eat bagels. Strange.

452
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: Saint Louis Breadco Company aka Panera to the rest of

453
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: the nation, offers bread sliced bagels. It makes bagels a

454
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: finger food that you can put cream cheese on each

455
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: slice of or dip. I've also seen groups order different

456
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: flavored bagels and different cream cheeses and share them since

457
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: they are bread sliced. People not from the area often

458
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: looks stunned or offended by this side note. Yes, I

459
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: would be a little shook, Mike continues. Saint Louis has

460
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: several interesting foods. Saint Louis style pizza emos, iMOS sure,

461
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: I amos, Yeah, that one is thin crust, square cut

462
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: with pro vel cheese, a prevailed cheese being another food

463
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: out of towners are unsure about. Toasted ravioli's are another

464
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: iMOS food that I grew up thinking was everywhere, but

465
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: apparently was a Saint Louis thing that's just now spreading us. Sorry,

466
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: I feel like this is running on too long. But

467
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: gooey butter cake sounds like a Poldine specialty, but it's

468
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: actually a Saint Louis delicacy. Okay, I've had gooey butter cake,

469
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: but everything else is yes new to me. Um. I've

470
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: had toasted ravioli. I've had frid Ravil's the same, or

471
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: I've had ravioli that we're toasted, but like in a

472
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: in a fried ravioli style, like breaded and toasted. Um.

473
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: I've had that. That's what I'm thinking of. That might

474
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: be different. Also, I'm so sorry if I mispronounced everything. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

475
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: When I saw the pictures of the bagels, it made

476
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: me laugh to you, Yeah, a bit of a double tay.

477
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, yeah, shook. I'm gonna I'm gonna

478
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: stick with the words shook. That's how I feel. I

479
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to heck in yuck anyone's

480
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: yung man like, like, I want everyone to enjoy what

481
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: they enjoy the way that they enjoy it. It's it

482
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: is a different it is a different way of assuming

483
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: a bagel. And that's okay, that's okay. I mean I

484
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: could see it being useful. Yeah, in the case the

485
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: cases you were talking about, they're sure certainly fascinating. These

486
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: regional things so cool. Yeah, they genuinely are. Oh gosh, well,

487
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: future episode topics all. Yes. In the meantime, thanks to

488
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: both of these listeners you're writing. If you would like

489
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: to write to us, you can our emails Hello at

490
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: favoritepod dot com. We're also on social media. You can

491
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod

492
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is

493
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, you

494
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

495
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our

496
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: superproducers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,

497
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

498
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: your way