Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me for session four ten of the Therapy
Speaker 1: for Black Girls podcasts. We'll get right into our conversation
Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. If you're on BookTalk
Speaker 1: or any book obsessed corner of the internet, especially amongst
Speaker 1: black women, you know that there's always a Kennedy Ryan
Speaker 1: book at the center of the conversation. Kennedy is no
Speaker 1: stranger to crafting characters that feel real and fully formed,
Speaker 1: and her stories linger with you long after you've turned
Speaker 1: the last page. Her newest book, Can't Get Enough Is
Speaker 1: No Exception, the third and final book in her Skyland
Speaker 1: series explores shifts and family dynamics, deep love, and the
Speaker 1: kind of healing that feels both tender and powerful. I'm
Speaker 1: excited to be joined by best selling author Kennedy Ryan
Speaker 1: to dive further into her writing process and talk more
Speaker 1: about how she brings these stories to life. If something
Speaker 1: resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with
Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session,
Speaker 1: or join us over in our patreon to talk more
Speaker 1: about the episode. You can join us at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com, slash Patreon. Here's our conversation. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Kennedy.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I love what you guys do.
Speaker 2: I love your platform, So I'm really excited to talk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you for joining us. So you
Speaker 1: mentioned as we were chatting beforehand that you're on deadline
Speaker 1: for the next book. So tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about your writing process and how this book came to be.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you know, my writing process. Generally I talk
Speaker 2: about people will say what inspired you, and I will
Speaker 2: often say I'm not so much inspired as incited. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of my books come from a place of
Speaker 2: not to scare anyone, but female rage indignation. You know.
Speaker 2: I see things happen in the world. Some of them
Speaker 2: disturb me, or I feel like need more discourse or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. But if I feel like my storytelling
Speaker 2: could add to that discourse, could shine light on it,
Speaker 2: then I gravitate towards, you know, working inside of it
Speaker 2: and writing about it. And I write romance, you know,
Speaker 2: and sometimes people are dismissive and don't think that you
Speaker 2: can groat some of those heavier topics in romance. But
Speaker 2: I feel like romance is the perfect genre to have
Speaker 2: difficult conversations, to have conversations people are avoiding because it's
Speaker 2: such a digestible, palatable genre. You know, it goes down easy,
Speaker 2: and also there's a guaranteed heavily ever after. So a
Speaker 2: lot of my inspiration comes from things that are happening
Speaker 2: in the world discourse that I want to have. My
Speaker 2: background is journalism, and so a lot of my creative
Speaker 2: process is really fueled by lived experience. Before I start
Speaker 2: writing a book, I'm always reading something. For example, we
Speaker 2: talked about the book that I'm writing now. This particular
Speaker 2: heroin has a lived experience that with certain mental health,
Speaker 2: mental illness, it's not my lived experience. So I've read
Speaker 2: like five memoirs. I usually do a lot of interview,
Speaker 2: usually ten to fifteen subjects for each book, somewhere around
Speaker 2: there a lot of them. If it's a medical condition,
Speaker 2: I'm talking to doctors who treat that, I'm talking to
Speaker 2: people who live with it, I'm talking to psychiatrists, I'm
Speaker 2: talking to people who actually know about those experiences. And
Speaker 2: then after I've done all of that kind of research
Speaker 2: and it's really the cornerstone, then I start to build
Speaker 2: out this fictional story that grows out of real lived experience.
Speaker 2: And so that's really what my creative process always looks like.
Speaker 2: And the variables will be what is this condition or
Speaker 2: what is this what is this vocation? This whole series,
Speaker 2: the Skylind series, And you know, we're talking about book
Speaker 2: three of the Skylind series, which is called Can't Good Enough.
Speaker 2: It's the last book of this series, which I'm kind
Speaker 2: of like bittersweet about. But the whole series, honestly, I've
Speaker 2: written with a lot of intention, and a lot of
Speaker 2: that intention was around mental health. Each book is looking
Speaker 2: at different mental health conditions, it's looking at different lived experiences.
Speaker 2: For example, the first one, the heroine is recovering from
Speaker 2: a pregnancy loss, and she is in a deep depression
Speaker 2: and at the same time, they just lost a loved one,
Speaker 2: she and her husband, and he has not ever dealt
Speaker 2: with his grief, and so he's been very resistant to
Speaker 2: therapy and they end up divorcing. And really that whole
Speaker 2: book is exploring the role of therapy in depression, finding
Speaker 2: the right medication, and then with him realizing that therapy
Speaker 2: is a pathway to healing, and for this particular story,
Speaker 2: that he's not going to get his wife back untherapized,
Speaker 2: you know. And so one of the mental health conditions
Speaker 2: we're looking at in the second book is autism, which
Speaker 2: I have so much personal experience with. I'm an autism
Speaker 2: mom and have been for twenty years. Autism Advocate led
Speaker 2: a foundation for families to have children with autism. So
Speaker 2: it was really special for me to write about autistic
Speaker 2: twins and what that parenting journey looks like and what
Speaker 2: the community looks like when it comes around and integrates
Speaker 2: and includes those with autism. And then in this third book,
Speaker 2: we are looking at Alzheimer's. This is a heroine who
Speaker 2: is a caregiver for an aging parent. It was really
Speaker 2: personal for me because my grandmother was living with dementia
Speaker 2: at the time. She passed away literally the week after
Speaker 2: I turned in the edits for this book, so it
Speaker 2: kind of felt like, wow, you know, timing. But I
Speaker 2: interviewed my mom, you know, as one of her primary caregivers,
Speaker 2: along with a lot of other people. But this whole
Speaker 2: series has really been looking at how we as women,
Speaker 2: and even more specifically as black women, how we take
Speaker 2: care of our mental health, how we address issues of
Speaker 2: mental health, protecting our peace. And then I think another
Speaker 2: thread is how we are there for each other, because
Speaker 2: the sisterhood and the friendship is really rich in this
Speaker 2: and how we support each other through everything.
Speaker 1: Beautiful Sonopsis, thank you so much for that. So I'm
Speaker 1: curious to hear how you kind of protect yourself and
Speaker 1: like take care of yourself, especially when you're writing about
Speaker 1: things that do include some of your own personal story. Right,
Speaker 1: So you talked about being an autism mom and having
Speaker 1: a family history of Alzheimer's and dementia, So how are
Speaker 1: you taking care of yourself and kind of managing the
Speaker 1: boundaries when your stuff kind of ends up in the
Speaker 1: stories right.
Speaker 2: You know, at first, I didn't do a very good
Speaker 2: job of it. And even when I'm not writing about
Speaker 2: something that is my lived experience, when I'm writing difficult subjects,
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how much it affected me. I have
Speaker 2: a book it's called Long Shot, and it's a survivor's
Speaker 2: journey and it is a romance. You know, she ultimately
Speaker 2: finds love and all of that, but it is walking
Speaker 2: through what that can look like, you know, intimate partner
Speaker 2: violence and all of that. And this is years ago.
Speaker 2: I was just like, Okay, this is what I'm writing,
Speaker 2: you know. And I was interviewing people who had lived that.
Speaker 2: I was interviewing people who worked at shelters. I was
Speaker 2: interviewing all the pieces of that puzzle, and I ended
Speaker 2: up with a bald spot and I was like, how
Speaker 2: did this happen? You know, I didn't understand so much
Speaker 2: of that stress I was actually experiencing and holding on
Speaker 2: too for myself. And that book was a real learning
Speaker 2: experience for me because I understood if I am going
Speaker 2: to be writing deeply into these subjects, some of them
Speaker 2: that have those stressors and those strains and those triggers,
Speaker 2: I have to take better care of myself, and I'm
Speaker 2: not always very good about it. But one thing that
Speaker 2: I myself when I was writing before I Let Go,
Speaker 2: which is the first book of this series, of course,
Speaker 2: that's a heroine who is dealing with depression. I was
Speaker 2: myself diagnosed with depression. I don't advise writing a book
Speaker 2: about depression when you are dealing with it yourself. But
Speaker 2: I learned to take care of myself during that process. Obviously,
Speaker 2: well not obviously for some people, I guess, but I
Speaker 2: ended up getting on antidepressants and other things that really
Speaker 2: helped me with my depression was physical activity, getting outside
Speaker 2: and now I'm walking every day. You know, first of all,
Speaker 2: there's just so much good stuff that happens in your
Speaker 2: body when you walk, the way your brain responds to it,
Speaker 2: the hormones that are released, and then it clears my mind.
Speaker 2: It gives me a space that's just my own. I
Speaker 2: am a special needs mom, I am a full time writer,
Speaker 2: and I have other roles and sometimes it feels like
Speaker 2: there's no time for me. And that time when I'm walking.
Speaker 2: I walk for about an hour every morning. It's like
Speaker 2: so mind clearing. It centers me. And in addition, to
Speaker 2: all the benefits, you know, physically, and then I pray.
Speaker 2: I grew up as a person of faith and it's
Speaker 2: still a big part of my life. My faith and
Speaker 2: what that looks like for me is very centering, meditating.
Speaker 2: Just making sure that I feel connected to something that's powerful,
Speaker 2: even beyond myself is a big help too. And my husband.
Speaker 2: The thing is, I am not very good sometimes about
Speaker 2: taking care of myself. He is much better sometimes it
Speaker 2: taking care of me than I am. I'm about to
Speaker 2: go on a tour and it's like ten cities in
Speaker 2: fourteen days, and it's very intense, and the last time
Speaker 2: we were on one. He always travels with me, and
Speaker 2: he is the one who's like, Nope, she's not doing
Speaker 2: anything else. We're done for the day. She's going home.
Speaker 2: Where's your water? And he just kind of helps me.
Speaker 2: So I think having people in your life who also
Speaker 2: look out for you because I'm a little bit of
Speaker 2: workaholic by nature, and he knows that about me. So
Speaker 2: having people who know those things about you and help
Speaker 2: take care of you is very important, at least it
Speaker 2: is for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, was there any concern for you, Kennedy about starting
Speaker 1: an anti depressident. And I know a lot of creatives
Speaker 1: sometimes worry about starting medication because they're worried about, you know,
Speaker 1: will this impact my creative process? Was there any concern
Speaker 1: for you there?
Speaker 2: You know? I think the thing that I had to
Speaker 2: get past was and I didn't realize that I had this,
Speaker 2: but growing up, I mentioned I grew up as a
Speaker 2: person of faith, and in church, you're like, oh, girl,
Speaker 2: you don't need a peel. Just pray about it. You know,
Speaker 2: God got it, you know that kind of thing. I
Speaker 2: didn't have any like expressed biases about medication, but then
Speaker 2: when it was time for me to take it, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, you're prescribing something for me. What is
Speaker 2: this going to do my brain? What is this going
Speaker 2: to do to my But honestly, I was at such
Speaker 2: a low place in my own life. I was having
Speaker 2: panic attacks. I was barely able to get out of bed,
Speaker 2: you know. And my husband was the first one to
Speaker 2: notice it. It was during the pandemic, so I assumed
Speaker 2: it was just it's the pandemic. Everybody's living like this,
Speaker 2: and my husband's like, no, I think it's something else.
Speaker 2: I was supposed to be writing before I let go
Speaker 2: and I had not been able to. I thought it
Speaker 2: was writer's block. I was talking to a writing coach
Speaker 2: and she was like, I think this is more than
Speaker 2: writer's block. I think you should talk to someone. And
Speaker 2: I went through three therapists before I found the right one,
Speaker 2: which is also what the heroin experience is in the
Speaker 2: first book, because I wanted people to know sometimes the
Speaker 2: first one doesn't take you, know, and you got to
Speaker 2: keep looking until you find the right one. And when
Speaker 2: you're at such a low place in your life, it
Speaker 2: takes a lot just to take that first step, and
Speaker 2: it can be so discouraging when you take that first
Speaker 2: step and then it's not the right one. You're like,
Speaker 2: you're telling me I have to take another step with
Speaker 2: another person. And when I found the right one, she
Speaker 2: was pretty quick to say, I think that we're dealing
Speaker 2: with depression, and I think you should talk with a psychiatrists.
Speaker 2: I think we should get you on medication. And I
Speaker 2: remember one of my family members saying, you know exactly
Speaker 2: what I thought, you bir just pray about it. You
Speaker 2: don't need to take no pills. But I did. I
Speaker 2: started taking an antidepressant and I felt so much better,
Speaker 2: like pretty fast So for me, the improvement in my
Speaker 2: mood and in my state of mind was worth dealing
Speaker 2: with those questions, dealing with those issues. And I had
Speaker 2: been so blocked creatively by depression that for me, I
Speaker 2: had no thought that this could make it any worse.
Speaker 2: My book was six months late at that point, and
Speaker 2: when I had my first session with my therapist, I said,
Speaker 2: I have a book to I just need you to
Speaker 2: I just need I need to get this book done,
Speaker 2: you know, I just need you to fix this so
Speaker 2: I can get my book done. And she said, I
Speaker 2: really don't care about your book, and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: need you to care about my book at six months late,
Speaker 2: you know, And she goes, I care about you, and
Speaker 2: I think that if you really put in the time,
Speaker 2: this could be the best book you've ever written. And
Speaker 2: that book was before I let go, and it changed
Speaker 2: my life, changed my career.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that, you know, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing that, but also appreciate you including that
Speaker 1: in the story because I think it does help to
Speaker 1: destigmatize mental health. Right, like the idea that sometimes you
Speaker 1: meet with a therapist and they are not like the
Speaker 1: best fit, and you keep trying so I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear what let you know that this therapist was going
Speaker 1: to be a better fit for you.
Speaker 2: You know, the first couple of therapists we just didn't jive.
Speaker 2: And the first one was like, you need a manicure,
Speaker 2: you need a massage, and I'm like, I know those
Speaker 2: things like first like self care, but I recognize that
Speaker 2: there was so much deeper, so many deeper things that
Speaker 2: were going on with me, and we just didn't jibe.
Speaker 2: And when I well, first of all, when she told
Speaker 2: me she didn't care about my book, you know, she
Speaker 2: was very frank, she pulled no punches, but she was
Speaker 2: also very compassionate. She asked the right questions. She started
Speaker 2: asking me questions about my sleep. She started asking questions
Speaker 2: about hygiene. You know, some days I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't even want to goe out of a bed, take a shower.
Speaker 2: You know. She asked questions about what my eating was like,
Speaker 2: what my libido was like, which was nonexistent. She started
Speaker 2: asking the right questions and it didn't take her long
Speaker 2: asking the right questions to identify what was really going on.
Speaker 2: And I will say this, I know that it doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be but she was also a black therapist,
Speaker 2: and that made a difference personally for me. I felt
Speaker 2: seen and understood. I felt like there were subtleties of
Speaker 2: my experience, especially as a black woman in publishing, navigating
Speaker 2: a very white dominated space. There are certain systemic barriers
Speaker 2: I'm up against all the time. Having a therapist who
Speaker 2: understands those subtleties, the subtleties of what that feels like
Speaker 2: and what that looks like, and doesn't think I'm imagining
Speaker 2: it or take it for granted, but considers it in
Speaker 2: in our conversations makes a really really big difference for me.
Speaker 1: So in Can't Get Enough, we see an expansion really
Speaker 1: of Hendrix's story. He's really kind of stepping out into
Speaker 1: the light on her own. So what was it like
Speaker 1: to kind of expand her story and kind of have
Speaker 1: her be the main character here?
Speaker 2: It was a delight, you know, in the sense that
Speaker 2: this series, it's these three women, and you know, each
Speaker 2: of them kind of gets their turn in the spotlight.
Speaker 2: But I'm dropping like little hints about Hendrix throughout the
Speaker 2: first two books, Like even in the first book we
Speaker 2: mentioned her mom has some form of dementia, you know,
Speaker 2: So that wasn't a surprise for anyone who had been
Speaker 2: reading the series. The first book is heavy, very heavy,
Speaker 2: you know, in a lot of ways, because we're dealing
Speaker 2: with depression and then the grief. We're dealing with all
Speaker 2: these things. It's a late term pregnancy, Like there is
Speaker 2: all of this heavy material that's in the first book
Speaker 2: that I tried to be very thoughtful about and wrote
Speaker 2: in concert with therapist and people who live those experiences.
Speaker 2: And Hendrix kind of comes in a lot of times
Speaker 2: as comic relief. It's like, this is heavy. This is heavy.
Speaker 2: This is heavy. And then Hendrix pops in with something
Speaker 2: and you're like, Okay, I can breathe, Okay, I can laugh.
Speaker 2: This is heavy. This is heavy. This is heavy. And
Speaker 2: then Hendrix again is like, hey, you know, we're still
Speaker 2: having fun. We're still here for whatever. And she also
Speaker 2: in those other two books was incredibly supportive to her
Speaker 2: friends and she showed up for them, and it was
Speaker 2: apparent to the reader that this is somebody who's like
Speaker 2: write or die, Like, this is somebody you want in
Speaker 2: a pinch if you're having a hard time, this is
Speaker 2: who you want. And it was really her time to
Speaker 2: look to her friends to be that for her and
Speaker 2: so building her out as not just comic relief, not
Speaker 2: just the good time girl, but as a fully dimensional
Speaker 2: woman who has joy, has all this joy, and is
Speaker 2: so such a good friend to everybody else. You know,
Speaker 2: she has the rich auntie vibes. She is childless by choice.
Speaker 2: You know, she doesn't want to have kids ever and
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like she should have to provide an excuse,
Speaker 2: a reason, a trauma. You know, She's like, I just
Speaker 2: don't want kids and that's okay. But she loves everybody
Speaker 2: else's kids. So this is a very warm woman who
Speaker 2: is there for everyone else. This is a story where
Speaker 2: she has to learn to lean on her friends and
Speaker 2: to lean on her family because her aunt comes in
Speaker 2: and helps her with her mother's care. It's too much
Speaker 2: for her on her own. And I really enjoy building
Speaker 2: this aspect out. We knew that she was a businesswoman.
Speaker 2: We knew that she was running her own business. She
Speaker 2: manages celebrities, especially like reality TV star celebrities like think
Speaker 2: you know, housewives kind of thing. We knew that about her.
Speaker 2: But what we didn't know is her role in venture
Speaker 2: capital and that she and a group of her so
Speaker 2: wars had started a venture capital fund that was focused
Speaker 2: on black women founders. You know, we didn't know that
Speaker 2: about her. We didn't stand how committed to her community
Speaker 2: she was that way, and that was a lot of
Speaker 2: fun for me to build out. I didn't know a
Speaker 2: lot about venture capital, and so the research for that
Speaker 2: was fun. And I started writing this right around the
Speaker 2: same time that everything was happening with the Fearless Fund,
Speaker 2: So that was very interesting, and I really dug into
Speaker 2: some of those themes of affirmative action DEI things that
Speaker 2: are very prescient for where we are now, and at
Speaker 2: the time I didn't realize how prescient it would be.
Speaker 2: I wish it wasn't as prescient as it is. So
Speaker 2: a lot of those aspects went into building her character out,
Speaker 2: and then we see her as someone who for me,
Speaker 2: she's a plus size brown woman, and I wanted her
Speaker 2: to be the main character. I wanted her to be
Speaker 2: someone's obsession, you know, in a healthy way. I call
Speaker 2: it a chasing romance. Sometimes those are not the women
Speaker 2: we are seeing at the center. Sometimes those are the
Speaker 2: women who are the sidekicks, so that you know, the
Speaker 2: funny best friend. I didn't want to treat her reductively.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that. I wanted to build
Speaker 2: her out in all of her dimensions, and then I
Speaker 2: wanted to celebrate her at the center of the story
Speaker 2: as the love interest and have this man who's incredibly
Speaker 2: eligible and who could have anybody want her. That was
Speaker 2: really important to me for women who are plus sized
Speaker 2: like me, you know, women who are black like me,
Speaker 2: to see ourselves at the center and to see ourselves
Speaker 2: pursued and loved outrageously and called worthy. That was really
Speaker 2: important for Hendrix as a character for what it represented,
Speaker 2: and then for this story specifically.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So you're talking about this love interest who
Speaker 1: is Maverick in the story, right, so we see him
Speaker 1: introduce there. When you think about, like who the love
Speaker 1: interests for Hendrix would be, what really inspired the Maverick
Speaker 1: care is there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I always talk about usually I'm building out like
Speaker 2: if it's a guy and a girl, you know, if
Speaker 2: it's not sapphic or whatever, but if it's a guy
Speaker 2: and a girl, I always build a woman first, and
Speaker 2: then I build a man who is worthy of her.
Speaker 2: That's how I think about my process as far as
Speaker 2: character development is I build an incredible woman and then
Speaker 2: I build a man who's worthy of her. And so
Speaker 2: Hendrix is such a dynamic character, and she is very independent,
Speaker 2: and she's like, I'm good all by myself. And her
Speaker 2: big thing is I will never settle, you know. I'd
Speaker 2: rather not have a husband. I'd rather not have a
Speaker 2: romantic partner than have someone who doesn't deserve me. And
Speaker 2: so that has been her perspective. And so I knew
Speaker 2: that Maverick is going to have to be very special.
Speaker 2: I knew that he was going to have to bring
Speaker 2: it because Hendrix is not easily impressed. She doesn't need
Speaker 2: anything from anyone else materially, but what she needed was
Speaker 2: someone who could be a soft place for her to land.
Speaker 2: And the thing I loved about Maverick is a lot
Speaker 2: of times when I'm writing romance, there are certain tropes,
Speaker 2: you know, that romance readers enjoy, and I like to
Speaker 2: introduce those tropes but then kind of subvert them, like
Speaker 2: kind of twist them around a little bit, like the
Speaker 2: billionaire romance so big right now, and I'm like, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: let's do this. But what if he's a billionaire who
Speaker 2: gives outrageously to historically black colleges and universities? What if
Speaker 2: he's a billionaire who sees how marijuana, you know, has
Speaker 2: been criminalized in the past and specifically weaponized against black men,
Speaker 2: and decides, once it's legal, I'm going to create a fund,
Speaker 2: you know, and we're going to create generational wealth with
Speaker 2: this now that it's legal. Like, what if we had
Speaker 2: someone who is a man of means but also a
Speaker 2: man of mission, a man of purpose, who supports his community.
Speaker 2: What if that is what the billionaire trope looked like.
Speaker 2: And so that's what Maverick is. And I'm a basketball girl,
Speaker 2: you know, So Maverick is also you know, he's someone
Speaker 2: who wants to be an owner, you know, of a
Speaker 2: professional basketball team, which is not something we have enough
Speaker 2: of where we see black men who are ownership in sports.
Speaker 2: So that aspect is there in the story too. So
Speaker 2: I love writing aspirational characters, not perfect, flawed, but also ambitious, yes,
Speaker 2: but vulnerable, you know. And Hendrix is that, you know,
Speaker 2: she has these vulnerabilities. And when you are a dynamic, powerful,
Speaker 2: ambitious woman like Hendrix, you want to be vulnerable with
Speaker 2: someone who is going to appreciate that about you and
Speaker 2: who is going to be that soft place to land
Speaker 2: and so I think that's that's how I formed Maverick,
Speaker 2: thinking about what she would need and who is someone
Speaker 2: who she would feel like she wasn't settling for, because
Speaker 2: that's her big thing is if I'm doing okay all
Speaker 2: by myself, why do I need you? You know? And
Speaker 2: he showed her all of the soft things, the love,
Speaker 2: the protection, the respect, and she wanted someone who would
Speaker 2: respect her dreams and her ambitions equally, which a lot
Speaker 2: of times for powerful women that can be hard for
Speaker 2: men who don't check their own egos or who want
Speaker 2: to feel like women need to be dependent on them.
Speaker 2: So he needed to be someone who's very secure, you know,
Speaker 2: in his own manhood and in his place in Hendrix's life.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So you mentioned
Speaker 1: this a little earlier, but there is a beautiful parallel
Speaker 1: I think between like the romantic love interests we see
Speaker 1: in the Sisterhood love language that we see kind of
Speaker 1: among the three characters. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that and like why it felt important to include
Speaker 1: that across this trilogy.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. I think one of my favorite quotes from
Speaker 2: the whole trilogy is there aren't enough sonnets for friendship,
Speaker 2: and I think that embodies exactly what you're talking about,
Speaker 2: which is that culturally, we often put so much emphasis
Speaker 2: on romantic love and don't really recognize and acknowledge how
Speaker 2: important other types of love are. And one of the
Speaker 2: ones I really wanted to lean into with this one
Speaker 2: is friendship and sister love. These three women think of
Speaker 2: themselves as platonic soulmates, you know, they think, these are
Speaker 2: my people. We're in it for life. Anything they need,
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do. I grew up seeing that,
Speaker 2: and I didn't realize it, I don't think until I
Speaker 2: got deeper into the series and I realized those are
Speaker 2: the kinds of friendships that my mom has and that
Speaker 2: she surrounded herself with and seeing the importance of community
Speaker 2: and sisterhood, and I wanted this story to reflect that.
Speaker 2: And I think that we're in a time where community
Speaker 2: is more important than it's ever been. You know, when
Speaker 2: you can't depend on some of the systems that are
Speaker 2: supposed to be there for you, or the government or
Speaker 2: whatever it is, having an inner circle, having a community,
Speaker 2: having friends is tatamount. And I think that's what this
Speaker 2: big part of this series is about. And I also
Speaker 2: talk in this series about loving yourself, especially in the
Speaker 2: second book, about how loving yourself is the foundation for
Speaker 2: all those other loves you know, and really leaning into
Speaker 2: all about love by Belle Hooks, really leaning into that
Speaker 2: as a text that's a foundation for the series, but
Speaker 2: building on that familial love, sister love, and friendship, and
Speaker 2: then of course romantic love. So that's kind of how
Speaker 2: I approached it. But it's it's esteemed, you know, in
Speaker 2: a way that sometimes sometimes people don't see as much
Speaker 2: in romance because of course the emphasis is so much
Speaker 2: on romantic love. But I also think that there's so
Speaker 2: much we learn about people when we know who their
Speaker 2: friends are and when we know who their family is.
Speaker 2: Like there's to me that is a part of building character,
Speaker 2: is who are your friends? Because that also tells me
Speaker 2: a lot about what you value. It tells me about
Speaker 2: what you enjoy, what makes you laugh, who you are
Speaker 2: when the cameras are off, or when you are not
Speaker 2: at work or you're not you know, you can do
Speaker 2: the code switch and you can completely relax, like who
Speaker 2: are you then? And I think one of the best
Speaker 2: contexts for that is true friendship. And so there's a
Speaker 2: lot about character that we learn when we have that,
Speaker 2: and so that was really important to me.
Speaker 1: So there's this beautiful layer I think also where we
Speaker 1: see like this balance between resistance and softness for Hendrix
Speaker 1: that I feel like is really a big deal for
Speaker 1: black women, right like when we're often for to choose
Speaker 1: one or the other. Can you talk about like the
Speaker 1: tension that exists there and why it felt important to
Speaker 1: include that.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think I already knew you know, that has
Speaker 2: been a tension for us forever. You know, that balance
Speaker 2: of when do I get to be soft and when
Speaker 2: do I have to work? You know in culture, when
Speaker 2: you're hearing all the time you got to be three times,
Speaker 2: four times, five times is good. You know, all of
Speaker 2: those things inform the way we work and informs the
Speaker 2: way we dream. You know, it affects all of that.
Speaker 2: And Hendrix is kind of that, like black Girl, Magic Girl,
Speaker 2: And there's this one passage where she talks about black
Speaker 2: Girl magic and she talks about how it's not a
Speaker 2: wand it's work and that so many times we're magical
Speaker 2: out of necessity because we have to be to survive,
Speaker 2: and that it's resilience. So in thinking about that, It's
Speaker 2: so funny because we are in a place where, especially
Speaker 2: Black women in America, the overwhelming majority of us had
Speaker 2: a vision for this country that didn't come to pass,
Speaker 2: and that was very disillusioning and very painful. I think
Speaker 2: so many of us grieved it and are still grieving it.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting to see as the protests break out
Speaker 2: that we are not showing up the way that we
Speaker 2: have before physically, like in the streets. It was so
Speaker 2: funny because someone posted it was in Atlanta, which I've
Speaker 2: spent twenty years in Atlanta, so Atlanta feels most like
Speaker 2: home to me, but it was in Atlanta, and it
Speaker 2: showed this protest out in the street and these three
Speaker 2: or four black women like having mimosas or something like
Speaker 2: looking out the window like Okay, I see you go off.
Speaker 2: You know, Like we are in this space where and
Speaker 2: I am constantly finding that balance because at the same
Speaker 2: time that I want to protect myself and I'm also
Speaker 2: a little indignant that certain things have happened when we
Speaker 2: tried to warn people, and we have always been the
Speaker 2: engine for resistance in this country. It is interesting to
Speaker 2: be at a place where we're like, oh, we're going
Speaker 2: to be soft for a while. You know, we're going
Speaker 2: to get our fans out. We're gonna, you know, learn
Speaker 2: a new dance, and we're gonna do all these things.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I am also a mom
Speaker 2: of a special needs son, and so I'm concerned about medicaid.
Speaker 2: I'm concerned about medicare for my parents. I'm concerned about
Speaker 2: the world for my queer friends. So it's like balancing
Speaker 2: how do I express resistance in a way that is
Speaker 2: safe for me right now? And I am finding that.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of black women are finding that,
Speaker 2: and every it looks different for everybody, and we all
Speaker 2: have to figure it out for ourselves. But it's so
Speaker 2: funny because I had written the first version, a couple
Speaker 2: of versions of this book, and we were in the
Speaker 2: final edits and the election happened, and I changed the
Speaker 2: dedication the day after the election, and I changed the
Speaker 2: dedication to this for the ones who have used your
Speaker 2: magic to lift, protect, and illuminate everybody else. Rest is
Speaker 2: your new resistance. Rest and shine My loves Rest and shine.
Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of where we are. You know,
Speaker 2: there's this balance of resting, resisting, but also shining polishing
Speaker 2: ourselves up, taking care of ourselves in the ways that
Speaker 2: feel right for us as individuals, creating community, making sure
Speaker 2: that we are supporting each other. Those bonds in our side,
Speaker 2: our community are, like I said before, more important than ever,
Speaker 2: with so many systems that are supposed to create any
Speaker 2: kind of equity, are supposed to create support being stripped.
Speaker 2: For me, I can't check out completely because it's not
Speaker 2: just like this country's going to you know, pot or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is specific lives of people I love that are
Speaker 2: attached to those things. So I think it's figuring out
Speaker 2: how you want to resist and what feels right for you,
Speaker 2: but then also protecting your peace. And I think that
Speaker 2: Hendrix's story kind of embodies that. We see them that
Speaker 2: the and we see her courtside with like multi thousand
Speaker 2: dollars tickets, and we see her on a yacht, you know,
Speaker 2: and we see her on a private plane, like we
Speaker 2: see her balling and iceed out. We see all of
Speaker 2: those things and like that life. But then we also
Speaker 2: see her when it is the right time and when
Speaker 2: it is her choice, on the front lines of resistance,
Speaker 2: specifically around black women in venture capital and fighting for
Speaker 2: more for her community and for women black founders, black
Speaker 2: women founders. So I think her story is that balance.
Speaker 2: We see all of that soft life stuff, but at
Speaker 2: the same time we also see her when she's ready
Speaker 2: and on her term, standing up, resisting fighting.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to spoil it because I know the reader is
Speaker 1: wing too experience it for themselves. But there is a
Speaker 1: part that I think will stick with a lot of
Speaker 1: people and maybe take them to their journals to think
Speaker 1: about this question for themselves. So there's a moment that
Speaker 1: causes Hendrick to ask herself, was Maverick asking me to
Speaker 1: give up on my dreams or asking to run with
Speaker 1: me while I chase them?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: What made you include this moment and what do you
Speaker 1: think this will maybe open up or allow other people
Speaker 1: to think about in their own lives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is I mentioned earlier, a partner
Speaker 2: who respects your dreams, you know, the same way they
Speaker 2: respect their own. It's sometimes it can be hard to
Speaker 2: find a partner, especially with kind of traditional male you know,
Speaker 2: man woman dynamics. It can be hard to find a
Speaker 2: partner who doesn't expect you to sideline your dreams. To
Speaker 2: subjugate your ambitions to his. And I think that that
Speaker 2: was an important question for Hendrix because she's like, I'm
Speaker 2: not stopping. I'm not stopping, I'm not slowing down. I'm
Speaker 2: not compromising. I'm not stopping what I'm doing. So we
Speaker 2: can do you know, whatever you do, I might not
Speaker 2: be following you like she needed a partner who understood that.
Speaker 2: And I think it is more common than not that
Speaker 2: a lot of women we have big dreams, big ambitions,
Speaker 2: and when we get married, when we have children, it
Speaker 2: changes the dynamics for us in a way that it
Speaker 2: doesn't traditionally change them for men. We are the ones
Speaker 2: who potentially end up with pregnancy leaves that maybe slow
Speaker 2: us down in our career tracks. We tend to be
Speaker 2: the ones who bear the burden of taking care of
Speaker 2: the home, of taking care of the kids. Now that
Speaker 2: you can have a partner who helps with that, like absolutely,
Speaker 2: but conventionally, historically women have borne the brunt of that,
Speaker 2: and it can slow down our ambitions. It can for
Speaker 2: some of us, sideline our dreams. And I think it's
Speaker 2: really important for you to ask questions about your own
Speaker 2: dreams and your own ambitions and the thing I love
Speaker 2: about Hendrix too, and all the women in this book
Speaker 2: is that they're older, older than most romance novels. Like
Speaker 2: most romance novels, a lot of romance novels, you know,
Speaker 2: there are people in there twenties and maybe early thirties.
Speaker 2: These women are forty years old. They've lived a little,
Speaker 2: they got some good miles on them. But that also
Speaker 2: means Hendrix knows exactly who she is, and she knows
Speaker 2: exactly what she wants from life. And sometimes when we
Speaker 2: come together with a partner and we haven't taken the
Speaker 2: time to really know ourselves, we haven't taken the time
Speaker 2: to really explore our own ambitions. We haven't taken the
Speaker 2: time to really figure out what are our dreams and
Speaker 2: how are we going to accomplish those things. Sometimes, when
Speaker 2: we haven't spent time with ourselves to understand who we
Speaker 2: are and what we want, when we get with a partner,
Speaker 2: some of that can be absorbed by their dreams, by
Speaker 2: their ambitions, or by the shape they want to see
Speaker 2: us in. Hendrix is like, I got a shape. You know,
Speaker 2: this is who I am. I'm not going to try
Speaker 2: to change you. Don't you try to change me? If
Speaker 2: we can exist together if we can love each other
Speaker 2: as we are. That doesn't mean that you don't ever compromise,
Speaker 2: but there's a respect for how a person is made.
Speaker 2: There's a respect for what a person ambitions and dreams are.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what we see with Hendrix, a
Speaker 2: very strong sense of self that and she talks about it.
Speaker 2: She's like, you know, in my thirties, I was in
Speaker 2: the streets looking for what, But now I'm settled. I
Speaker 2: know who I am, I know what I want, and
Speaker 2: I'm not going to change that to be with someone.
Speaker 2: I want to be with someone who wants me as
Speaker 2: I am. And I think that's something that we as
Speaker 2: women have to ask ourselves. What are we willing to compromise?
Speaker 2: What aren't we willing to compromise? What aren't we willing
Speaker 2: to settle for? How do we protect our dreams and
Speaker 2: our ambitions and at the same time align ourselves with
Speaker 2: a partner who loves and respects us. Those are some
Speaker 2: of the questions that kind of rise to the surface
Speaker 2: in this story. And when we talk about children, it's
Speaker 2: kind of self eliminating a little bit, because there are
Speaker 2: men who are like I want a family, you don't
Speaker 2: want kids, You're not for me. And Hindus is like, well,
Speaker 2: I don't want kids, so you're not for me. I'm
Speaker 2: not for you. Deuces cool, have a great life. And
Speaker 2: it's so interesting because when I was talking with some
Speaker 2: friends when I was first writing the story, and I
Speaker 2: was telling them that she was childless by choice. And
Speaker 2: this was before, like Hendricks has been childlessed by choice
Speaker 2: since the first story, which was in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: and so we didn't have all of the cultural conversation
Speaker 2: that we've had around child's by choice over the last
Speaker 2: year or so. In the same way, that's just who
Speaker 2: she was. But I remember some of my friends going, oh,
Speaker 2: are you concerned that people will think she's cold? And
Speaker 2: I was like, why why would people think she's cold
Speaker 2: because she doesn't want to have kids. And I'm like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: you think that you think that a woman is cold
Speaker 2: if she doesn't want to have children. And they're great people,
Speaker 2: you know, but it's so baked into us that as
Speaker 2: a woman, that is an expression of our womanhood. And
Speaker 2: I've been telling people we are not our wombs, you know,
Speaker 2: Like this country is so fixated on defining women by
Speaker 2: our wombs, our reproductive rights and whether or not we
Speaker 2: have kids and all of the things, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: hands off, we are bigger than our reproductive organs, Like
Speaker 2: why are you defining if I'm cold or if I'm warm,
Speaker 2: or if I'm generous or if I'm kind by if
Speaker 2: I have children. And there's this part of the book
Speaker 2: where Hendrix talks about, you know, I may not have kids.
Speaker 2: There are women like me. We may never have children,
Speaker 2: but we are godmothers, we are aunts. We are pushing
Speaker 2: our love out into the world on our terms. Let
Speaker 2: us love people the way that feels right for us.
Speaker 2: And so I think that's something that all of those
Speaker 2: questions I think rise to the surface when you're reading
Speaker 2: this book, or at least I hope they do. I
Speaker 2: wanted them to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I think about book talk and Booksagram,
Speaker 1: it feels synonymous with Kennedy Ryan for me in another ways, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like your books was some of the
Speaker 1: first that I saw, like, oh, people are like really
Speaker 1: going to their for you pages and telling other people
Speaker 1: to like read about them.
Speaker 2: And I think that that.
Speaker 1: Presents probably an interesting kind of conundrum when you're thinking about,
Speaker 1: like how do you write your next books because you
Speaker 1: know the fans are so involved, they will have responses,
Speaker 1: They have lots of opinions, they have ideas about where
Speaker 1: they think the story should go. So how do you
Speaker 1: balance that right, like kind of you know, giving the
Speaker 1: people what they want, so to speak with your own process.
Speaker 1: Really as a creative.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I actually have kind of a calculus
Speaker 2: for how I write stories. It's like kind of a
Speaker 2: three legged stool, you know, Like there are three things
Speaker 2: that drive me in storytelling. One is creative conviction, like
Speaker 2: what do I believe what is important to me and
Speaker 2: what do I believe needs to be at the center
Speaker 2: of this story. The other is intellectual curiosity. What am
Speaker 2: I curious about? What do I want to learn? And
Speaker 2: I hope that if it's something that's going to be
Speaker 2: compelling enough for me and exciting for me to learn,
Speaker 2: it would be exciting for our readis to learn. And
Speaker 2: then artistic urgency, which is there's something happening right now
Speaker 2: in the world that I feel like needs more discourse,
Speaker 2: more shine. Is there an intersection between my work, my storytelling,
Speaker 2: and this thing that's happening right now in the world
Speaker 2: that will illuminate and amplify that discourse, and if so,
Speaker 2: I'll write it. So those are kind of those these
Speaker 2: three element that are present when I'm deciding what I'm
Speaker 2: going to write, and that is a me process, that
Speaker 2: is a process that insulates from anyone else's voice. We
Speaker 2: talk about writing to market. I don't write to market,
Speaker 2: which is when you look at trends and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna write this, I'm gonna write this. My career
Speaker 2: is dumbfounding, do you know what I mean? Like, because
Speaker 2: I don't write to the things that are popular, and
Speaker 2: sometimes I write things or people are like, is that
Speaker 2: even romance? You know, it feels like I'm often writing
Speaker 2: against the grain. I don't you know sometimes understand how
Speaker 2: my books have become even a little popular, except that
Speaker 2: there are people who are drawn to the things that
Speaker 2: I'm drawn to, which is I like things that feel
Speaker 2: like real life but also with joy. And I hear
Speaker 2: people's opinions all the time. You know, when you talk
Speaker 2: about BookTalk, you talk about TikTok. I love TikTok, like
Speaker 2: I'm on TikTok all the time, but I don't want
Speaker 2: to see myself on TikTok. You know. I don't want
Speaker 2: to see people talking about me TikTok, but it's inevitable,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like, every time I
Speaker 2: go on TikTok, the algorithm knows, oh, you're Kennedy Ryan.
Speaker 2: We're going to show you stuff about Kennedy Ryan, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I don't want to see any of it.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know, you know. And it's so
Speaker 2: funny because there is this I have intentions I always
Speaker 2: talk about. I say this a lot. I say that
Speaker 2: I don't just release a book. I send a book
Speaker 2: on a mission, and I think about storytelling from a
Speaker 2: missional perspective. There's something that I want that story to accomplish.
Speaker 2: It is written from various specific belief systems, and it
Speaker 2: has intentions. And when you're writing like that, when you
Speaker 2: are crafting a story from there out, other people's opinions
Speaker 2: don't necessarily come into it, as it's intrinsically insulated from that.
Speaker 2: And then when it's out there and I've kind of
Speaker 2: formed it, I'm like, well, what what kind of bone
Speaker 2: could I throw? You know? A reader like, oh, he
Speaker 2: could be a millionaire. But the story, the core of
Speaker 2: the story does not grow from that, oh, like in
Speaker 2: a storyline before I let go. One of the things
Speaker 2: I was really concerned with, which is the first book
Speaker 2: in the series, was destigmatizing mental health, specifically for the
Speaker 2: black community and then most specifically for black men. And
Speaker 2: so we see a man who is resistant to therapy
Speaker 2: and then over the course of that story understands, oh,
Speaker 2: I need this, like I won't survive without this. How
Speaker 2: have I made it this long without this? And he
Speaker 2: has this journey from being completely resistant to it till
Speaker 2: by the end like knock emergency, I need to talk
Speaker 2: to my therapists, right. And there are readers who are like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, why couldn't Josiah just have from the
Speaker 2: beginning been like all in on therapy and he's not
Speaker 2: my book boyfriend. And I'm like, well, I wasn't. Really,
Speaker 2: I don't care about that, you know, I don't care
Speaker 2: about book boyfriends. I care about that journey. My intention
Speaker 2: was that journey. And the reason I did that is
Speaker 2: because I know there are women whose partners are resistant
Speaker 2: to therapy, women who would read that book and be
Speaker 2: like this, this is what I'm talking about, baby, And
Speaker 2: when I tell you, so many women message me. I
Speaker 2: just gave it to him. I just gave it to
Speaker 2: him and said, read it. And now we're in therapy.
Speaker 2: He's in therapy. I call my insurance company, see if
Speaker 2: they'll cover therapy. That is what I wanted. If he
Speaker 2: is your book boyfriend, that is a side effect, that's
Speaker 2: a byproduct to me. I don't write to those things.
Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about those things. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: in that book, where I was dealing with all of
Speaker 2: those really heavier themes, and I had all these intentions,
Speaker 2: and I sent the book on a mission. You know,
Speaker 2: there is this point when they go to this hotel
Speaker 2: and it's the only one bed trope. You know. It's
Speaker 2: like they go to this hotel and they're supposed to
Speaker 2: have two rooms. This is a classic romance trope, and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, there's only one room. There's only one bed.
Speaker 2: And as soon as a romance reader sees it, they're go, oh,
Speaker 2: it's the only one bed trope, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So it's like, oh, gosh, this book, this was only
Speaker 2: one bedo, you know. So it's like I can thread
Speaker 2: those things in. But a reader readers desires are never
Speaker 2: dictating what I write. So that's kind of the balance is, Oh,
Speaker 2: but look, I can give you only one bed. Oh
Speaker 2: but look, I can give you this really cool meet cute.
Speaker 2: Oh look, but I'm going to write what I'm going
Speaker 2: to write and it's not going to be affected by
Speaker 2: what people want.
Speaker 1: So so what would you say? Kennedy Ryan's story always
Speaker 1: promises readers.
Speaker 2: I think that a Kennedy Ryan's story promises a woman
Speaker 2: who is powerful, and that doesn't always mean what people assume.
Speaker 2: I think that there's the strong that myth of the
Speaker 2: strong black woman. I think I have characters who are
Speaker 2: Some of them are like Hendrick's, you know, really really
Speaker 2: powerful and right, you know, up front about ambitions. But
Speaker 2: then we have some who they're not the one who
Speaker 2: as soon as you walk into the room they're the
Speaker 2: center of everything, who are quieter but strong in their
Speaker 2: own way. So I think there's a strength, but I
Speaker 2: also think there's a vulnerability in all of these characters.
Speaker 2: And part of that is to say we don't have
Speaker 2: to be strong all the time. We should be able
Speaker 2: to be flawed, we should be able to have weaknesses,
Speaker 2: we should be able to have pain that's acknowledged equally
Speaker 2: and at the same time, you're going to see a
Speaker 2: partner because it's a romance. You're going to see a
Speaker 2: partner who loves that woman outrageously, who respects her as
Speaker 2: an equal, and who makes her feel esteemed and celebrated.
Speaker 2: I tend to write from the margins to the center.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is one of the
Speaker 2: hallmarks of my books is what I call sceneiness, meaning
Speaker 2: I like to write about women who are not used
Speaker 2: to seeing themselves at the center of narrative and culture.
Speaker 2: So I like to write about black women, brown women,
Speaker 2: disabled women, chronically ill women, fat women, you know, like
Speaker 2: neuro divergence, like those are not always the center of
Speaker 2: the narrative. So I like to write from the margins
Speaker 2: to the center. So you see that a lot in
Speaker 2: my work. You're like, oh, okay, I see you. You know,
Speaker 2: you right in the meadle. Are the main character. You're
Speaker 2: not the sidekick, you're not the funny best friend. It's you.
Speaker 2: So you often see that kind of like someone who
Speaker 2: you're not used to seeing at the center of narrative
Speaker 2: and culture, pulled from the edges to the center. You're
Speaker 2: going to see a woman who doesn't settle, and even
Speaker 2: if she settles at one point. Part of her journey
Speaker 2: is figuring out that she doesn't have to. When you
Speaker 2: see a character like Sulidad in the second book, The
Speaker 2: Pink One, this could be us. This is a woman
Speaker 2: who's married to you know, I'm not going to cuss
Speaker 2: on your show, a pos, all right, married to a
Speaker 2: pos trash garbage, and when he shows his true colors,
Speaker 2: you know his true nature, this deep betrayal. She has
Speaker 2: to start all over, and she has to start all over.
Speaker 2: She has three kids, and she's now going from being
Speaker 2: a stay at home mom to being a provider for
Speaker 2: her home, maintaining this house, building a career, all of this,
Speaker 2: but a career that's grounded in what she's gifted in.
Speaker 2: And she's like, I have given him so much of
Speaker 2: my power. So that whole journey is taking that power
Speaker 2: back piece by piece and rebuilding herself into someone that
Speaker 2: she and her daughters can be proud of. So every
Speaker 2: journey looks different, but it is that how am I
Speaker 2: taking my power, claiming my power, keeping my power, sharing
Speaker 2: my power where it's necessary. And I think the other
Speaker 2: thing that you'll see a lot in a Kennedy Ryan novel,
Speaker 2: is I really see my work as this intersection of
Speaker 2: swoon and social commentary. You will see that in most
Speaker 2: of my books, you know, whether it's destigmatizing therapy, or
Speaker 2: discussion of all the things that happen in book two
Speaker 2: with her and rebuilding her career, or it's you know
Speaker 2: what we see in book three, which is obviously what
Speaker 2: does it look like now for us as a generation
Speaker 2: caring for aging parents, but also the social commentary of
Speaker 2: what does equity look like? Why is equity worth fighting for?
Speaker 2: Why is it still a valid conversation for marginalized people
Speaker 2: to still be demanding more than what we have been
Speaker 2: given and what we've had opportunity for. Why is that
Speaker 2: still a valid conversation? And all of those things are
Speaker 2: going to happen in the context of a romance novel.
Speaker 2: You know, I've had commentary on land grab. I've written
Speaker 2: books that are commentary on climate change and the voter suppression,
Speaker 2: missing and murdered indigenous women, intimate partner violence, like my
Speaker 2: catalog is all of those things. So I really see
Speaker 2: a lot of my work as this intersection of swoon
Speaker 2: and social commentary. How do those things go together? And it's,
Speaker 2: like I said, for me, romance is the most digestible genre,
Speaker 2: so it goes down smooth all of a sudden. I'm
Speaker 2: here for the kisses and the swoons and the spice,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh wait, I'm asking myself real questions.
Speaker 2: I'm in my journal right now, like what happened? You know?
Speaker 2: And so that is a hallmark of my work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that swoon in social commentary, we love it.
Speaker 1: So where can we stay connected with you? Kennedy? Where
Speaker 1: can we can't get enough? Where can we find you online?
Speaker 2: Can't get enough? Comes out May thirteenth. I'm so excited
Speaker 2: about it. It'll be out an ebook, print, audio, anywhere
Speaker 2: you buy books, Amazon, indie stores. One thing that I'm
Speaker 2: really proud of, and anyone who's listening can find me
Speaker 2: on Instagram. You know, I'm on Instagram. I'm on barely
Speaker 2: on x but still there. I'm on TikTok. But I
Speaker 2: have a bio and if you go to the link
Speaker 2: in that bio, it will take you wherever you want
Speaker 2: to go. One of the things I'm most proud of
Speaker 2: about this particular campaign is that we my publisher and
Speaker 2: I are partnering with black owned bookstores and we have
Speaker 2: a pre order campaign that is specifically for black owned bookstores,
Speaker 2: and when you buy, can't get enough through a black
Speaker 2: owned bookstore. It's linked to my bio. You click there,
Speaker 2: it'll show you all the black owned bookstores that are participating.
Speaker 2: There are certain things that you can only get from
Speaker 2: the Black owned bookstore pre order campaign. It's like full
Speaker 2: color art, it's you know, sign book plates, it is
Speaker 2: a bookmark, it's all you know, it's all very specific,
Speaker 2: and you can't get it anywhere other than our Black
Speaker 2: owned bookstore campaign. So that's one of my favorite ways
Speaker 2: for people to buy these books. And I did that
Speaker 2: for my last release, which was real, and we're doing
Speaker 2: it again for this one because a lot of times
Speaker 2: we are begging black authors, are begging retailers, we are
Speaker 2: begging the big stores. We are begging people please carry
Speaker 2: our books, Please give us visibility, please make space for us,
Speaker 2: please get us on your shelves. And black owned bookstores
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven, three sixty five amplifying our stories,
Speaker 2: supporting us as creatives. And so this is kind of
Speaker 2: my way of saying, you amplify us, I amplify you.
Speaker 2: I want to prioritize black owned bookstores and I want
Speaker 2: to incentivize readers to support and buy from black owned bookstores.
Speaker 1: Beautiful. Be sure to include all of that information in
Speaker 1: our show notes. Thank you so much for spending some
Speaker 1: time with me to day, Kennedy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: For having me really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad Kennedy was able to join
Speaker 1: us today. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn
Speaker 1: more about her or it's a pre order your copy
Speaker 1: of Can't Get Enough, be sure to visit the show
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four ten,
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text this episode to two of
Speaker 1: your girls right now and tell them to check it out.
Speaker 1: Did you know that you can leave us a voicemail
Speaker 1: with your questions and suggestions for the podcast. If you
Speaker 1: have movies you'd like to suggest, or books you'd like
Speaker 1: us to review, or even topics that you want to
Speaker 1: hear us discuss, drop us a message at Memo dot
Speaker 1: fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know
Speaker 1: what's on your mind. We just might feature it on
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
Speaker 1: visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com
Speaker 1: slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechubu
Speaker 1: and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Speaker 1: Take good care, what