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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session four ten of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls podcasts. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. If you're on BookTalk

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Speaker 1: or any book obsessed corner of the internet, especially amongst

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Speaker 1: black women, you know that there's always a Kennedy Ryan

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Speaker 1: book at the center of the conversation. Kennedy is no

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Speaker 1: stranger to crafting characters that feel real and fully formed,

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Speaker 1: and her stories linger with you long after you've turned

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Speaker 1: the last page. Her newest book, Can't Get Enough Is

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Speaker 1: No Exception, the third and final book in her Skyland

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Speaker 1: series explores shifts and family dynamics, deep love, and the

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Speaker 1: kind of healing that feels both tender and powerful. I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to be joined by best selling author Kennedy Ryan

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Speaker 1: to dive further into her writing process and talk more

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Speaker 1: about how she brings these stories to life. If something

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Speaker 1: resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with

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Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session,

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Speaker 1: or join us over in our patreon to talk more

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Speaker 1: about the episode. You can join us at Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com, slash Patreon. Here's our conversation. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I love what you guys do.

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Speaker 2: I love your platform, So I'm really excited to talk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you for joining us. So you

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Speaker 1: mentioned as we were chatting beforehand that you're on deadline

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Speaker 1: for the next book. So tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your writing process and how this book came to be.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you know, my writing process. Generally I talk

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Speaker 2: about people will say what inspired you, and I will

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Speaker 2: often say I'm not so much inspired as incited. You know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of my books come from a place of

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Speaker 2: not to scare anyone, but female rage indignation. You know.

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Speaker 2: I see things happen in the world. Some of them

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Speaker 2: disturb me, or I feel like need more discourse or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is. But if I feel like my storytelling

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Speaker 2: could add to that discourse, could shine light on it,

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Speaker 2: then I gravitate towards, you know, working inside of it

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Speaker 2: and writing about it. And I write romance, you know,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes people are dismissive and don't think that you

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Speaker 2: can groat some of those heavier topics in romance. But

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Speaker 2: I feel like romance is the perfect genre to have

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Speaker 2: difficult conversations, to have conversations people are avoiding because it's

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Speaker 2: such a digestible, palatable genre. You know, it goes down easy,

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Speaker 2: and also there's a guaranteed heavily ever after. So a

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Speaker 2: lot of my inspiration comes from things that are happening

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Speaker 2: in the world discourse that I want to have. My

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Speaker 2: background is journalism, and so a lot of my creative

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Speaker 2: process is really fueled by lived experience. Before I start

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Speaker 2: writing a book, I'm always reading something. For example, we

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Speaker 2: talked about the book that I'm writing now. This particular

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Speaker 2: heroin has a lived experience that with certain mental health,

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Speaker 2: mental illness, it's not my lived experience. So I've read

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Speaker 2: like five memoirs. I usually do a lot of interview,

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Speaker 2: usually ten to fifteen subjects for each book, somewhere around

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Speaker 2: there a lot of them. If it's a medical condition,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to doctors who treat that, I'm talking to

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Speaker 2: people who live with it, I'm talking to psychiatrists, I'm

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Speaker 2: talking to people who actually know about those experiences. And

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Speaker 2: then after I've done all of that kind of research

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Speaker 2: and it's really the cornerstone, then I start to build

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Speaker 2: out this fictional story that grows out of real lived experience.

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Speaker 2: And so that's really what my creative process always looks like.

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Speaker 2: And the variables will be what is this condition or

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Speaker 2: what is this what is this vocation? This whole series,

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Speaker 2: the Skylind series, And you know, we're talking about book

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Speaker 2: three of the Skylind series, which is called Can't Good Enough.

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Speaker 2: It's the last book of this series, which I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of like bittersweet about. But the whole series, honestly, I've

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Speaker 2: written with a lot of intention, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: that intention was around mental health. Each book is looking

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Speaker 2: at different mental health conditions, it's looking at different lived experiences.

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Speaker 2: For example, the first one, the heroine is recovering from

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Speaker 2: a pregnancy loss, and she is in a deep depression

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Speaker 2: and at the same time, they just lost a loved one,

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Speaker 2: she and her husband, and he has not ever dealt

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Speaker 2: with his grief, and so he's been very resistant to

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Speaker 2: therapy and they end up divorcing. And really that whole

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Speaker 2: book is exploring the role of therapy in depression, finding

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Speaker 2: the right medication, and then with him realizing that therapy

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Speaker 2: is a pathway to healing, and for this particular story,

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Speaker 2: that he's not going to get his wife back untherapized,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so one of the mental health conditions

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Speaker 2: we're looking at in the second book is autism, which

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Speaker 2: I have so much personal experience with. I'm an autism

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Speaker 2: mom and have been for twenty years. Autism Advocate led

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Speaker 2: a foundation for families to have children with autism. So

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Speaker 2: it was really special for me to write about autistic

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Speaker 2: twins and what that parenting journey looks like and what

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Speaker 2: the community looks like when it comes around and integrates

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Speaker 2: and includes those with autism. And then in this third book,

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Speaker 2: we are looking at Alzheimer's. This is a heroine who

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Speaker 2: is a caregiver for an aging parent. It was really

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Speaker 2: personal for me because my grandmother was living with dementia

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Speaker 2: at the time. She passed away literally the week after

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Speaker 2: I turned in the edits for this book, so it

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Speaker 2: kind of felt like, wow, you know, timing. But I

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Speaker 2: interviewed my mom, you know, as one of her primary caregivers,

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Speaker 2: along with a lot of other people. But this whole

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Speaker 2: series has really been looking at how we as women,

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Speaker 2: and even more specifically as black women, how we take

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Speaker 2: care of our mental health, how we address issues of

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Speaker 2: mental health, protecting our peace. And then I think another

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Speaker 2: thread is how we are there for each other, because

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Speaker 2: the sisterhood and the friendship is really rich in this

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Speaker 2: and how we support each other through everything.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Sonopsis, thank you so much for that. So I'm

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Speaker 1: curious to hear how you kind of protect yourself and

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Speaker 1: like take care of yourself, especially when you're writing about

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Speaker 1: things that do include some of your own personal story. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you talked about being an autism mom and having

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Speaker 1: a family history of Alzheimer's and dementia, So how are

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Speaker 1: you taking care of yourself and kind of managing the

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Speaker 1: boundaries when your stuff kind of ends up in the

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Speaker 1: stories right.

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Speaker 2: You know, at first, I didn't do a very good

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Speaker 2: job of it. And even when I'm not writing about

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Speaker 2: something that is my lived experience, when I'm writing difficult subjects,

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize how much it affected me. I have

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Speaker 2: a book it's called Long Shot, and it's a survivor's

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Speaker 2: journey and it is a romance. You know, she ultimately

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Speaker 2: finds love and all of that, but it is walking

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Speaker 2: through what that can look like, you know, intimate partner

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Speaker 2: violence and all of that. And this is years ago.

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Speaker 2: I was just like, Okay, this is what I'm writing,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I was interviewing people who had lived that.

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Speaker 2: I was interviewing people who worked at shelters. I was

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Speaker 2: interviewing all the pieces of that puzzle, and I ended

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Speaker 2: up with a bald spot and I was like, how

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Speaker 2: did this happen? You know, I didn't understand so much

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Speaker 2: of that stress I was actually experiencing and holding on

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Speaker 2: too for myself. And that book was a real learning

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Speaker 2: experience for me because I understood if I am going

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Speaker 2: to be writing deeply into these subjects, some of them

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Speaker 2: that have those stressors and those strains and those triggers,

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Speaker 2: I have to take better care of myself, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not always very good about it. But one thing that

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Speaker 2: I myself when I was writing before I Let Go,

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Speaker 2: which is the first book of this series, of course,

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Speaker 2: that's a heroine who is dealing with depression. I was

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Speaker 2: myself diagnosed with depression. I don't advise writing a book

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Speaker 2: about depression when you are dealing with it yourself. But

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Speaker 2: I learned to take care of myself during that process. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: well not obviously for some people, I guess, but I

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Speaker 2: ended up getting on antidepressants and other things that really

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Speaker 2: helped me with my depression was physical activity, getting outside

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Speaker 2: and now I'm walking every day. You know, first of all,

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Speaker 2: there's just so much good stuff that happens in your

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Speaker 2: body when you walk, the way your brain responds to it,

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Speaker 2: the hormones that are released, and then it clears my mind.

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Speaker 2: It gives me a space that's just my own. I

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Speaker 2: am a special needs mom, I am a full time writer,

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Speaker 2: and I have other roles and sometimes it feels like

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Speaker 2: there's no time for me. And that time when I'm walking.

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Speaker 2: I walk for about an hour every morning. It's like

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Speaker 2: so mind clearing. It centers me. And in addition, to

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Speaker 2: all the benefits, you know, physically, and then I pray.

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Speaker 2: I grew up as a person of faith and it's

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Speaker 2: still a big part of my life. My faith and

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Speaker 2: what that looks like for me is very centering, meditating.

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Speaker 2: Just making sure that I feel connected to something that's powerful,

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Speaker 2: even beyond myself is a big help too. And my husband.

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Speaker 2: The thing is, I am not very good sometimes about

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Speaker 2: taking care of myself. He is much better sometimes it

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Speaker 2: taking care of me than I am. I'm about to

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Speaker 2: go on a tour and it's like ten cities in

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Speaker 2: fourteen days, and it's very intense, and the last time

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Speaker 2: we were on one. He always travels with me, and

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Speaker 2: he is the one who's like, Nope, she's not doing

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Speaker 2: anything else. We're done for the day. She's going home.

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Speaker 2: Where's your water? And he just kind of helps me.

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Speaker 2: So I think having people in your life who also

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Speaker 2: look out for you because I'm a little bit of

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Speaker 2: workaholic by nature, and he knows that about me. So

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Speaker 2: having people who know those things about you and help

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Speaker 2: take care of you is very important, at least it

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Speaker 2: is for me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, was there any concern for you, Kennedy about starting

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Speaker 1: an anti depressident. And I know a lot of creatives

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Speaker 1: sometimes worry about starting medication because they're worried about, you know,

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Speaker 1: will this impact my creative process? Was there any concern

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Speaker 1: for you there?

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Speaker 2: You know? I think the thing that I had to

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Speaker 2: get past was and I didn't realize that I had this,

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Speaker 2: but growing up, I mentioned I grew up as a

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Speaker 2: person of faith, and in church, you're like, oh, girl,

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Speaker 2: you don't need a peel. Just pray about it. You know,

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Speaker 2: God got it, you know that kind of thing. I

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Speaker 2: didn't have any like expressed biases about medication, but then

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Speaker 2: when it was time for me to take it, I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, you're prescribing something for me. What is

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Speaker 2: this going to do my brain? What is this going

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Speaker 2: to do to my But honestly, I was at such

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Speaker 2: a low place in my own life. I was having

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Speaker 2: panic attacks. I was barely able to get out of bed,

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Speaker 2: you know. And my husband was the first one to

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Speaker 2: notice it. It was during the pandemic, so I assumed

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Speaker 2: it was just it's the pandemic. Everybody's living like this,

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Speaker 2: and my husband's like, no, I think it's something else.

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Speaker 2: I was supposed to be writing before I let go

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Speaker 2: and I had not been able to. I thought it

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Speaker 2: was writer's block. I was talking to a writing coach

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Speaker 2: and she was like, I think this is more than

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Speaker 2: writer's block. I think you should talk to someone. And

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Speaker 2: I went through three therapists before I found the right one,

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Speaker 2: which is also what the heroin experience is in the

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Speaker 2: first book, because I wanted people to know sometimes the

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Speaker 2: first one doesn't take you, know, and you got to

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Speaker 2: keep looking until you find the right one. And when

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Speaker 2: you're at such a low place in your life, it

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Speaker 2: takes a lot just to take that first step, and

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Speaker 2: it can be so discouraging when you take that first

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Speaker 2: step and then it's not the right one. You're like,

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Speaker 2: you're telling me I have to take another step with

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Speaker 2: another person. And when I found the right one, she

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Speaker 2: was pretty quick to say, I think that we're dealing

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Speaker 2: with depression, and I think you should talk with a psychiatrists.

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Speaker 2: I think we should get you on medication. And I

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Speaker 2: remember one of my family members saying, you know exactly

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Speaker 2: what I thought, you bir just pray about it. You

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Speaker 2: don't need to take no pills. But I did. I

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Speaker 2: started taking an antidepressant and I felt so much better,

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Speaker 2: like pretty fast So for me, the improvement in my

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Speaker 2: mood and in my state of mind was worth dealing

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Speaker 2: with those questions, dealing with those issues. And I had

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Speaker 2: been so blocked creatively by depression that for me, I

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Speaker 2: had no thought that this could make it any worse.

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Speaker 2: My book was six months late at that point, and

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Speaker 2: when I had my first session with my therapist, I said,

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Speaker 2: I have a book to I just need you to

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Speaker 2: I just need I need to get this book done,

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Speaker 2: you know, I just need you to fix this so

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Speaker 2: I can get my book done. And she said, I

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Speaker 2: really don't care about your book, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: need you to care about my book at six months late,

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Speaker 2: you know, And she goes, I care about you, and

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Speaker 2: I think that if you really put in the time,

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Speaker 2: this could be the best book you've ever written. And

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Speaker 2: that book was before I let go, and it changed

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Speaker 2: my life, changed my career.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing that, but also appreciate you including that

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Speaker 1: in the story because I think it does help to

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Speaker 1: destigmatize mental health. Right, like the idea that sometimes you

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Speaker 1: meet with a therapist and they are not like the

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Speaker 1: best fit, and you keep trying so I'd love to

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Speaker 1: hear what let you know that this therapist was going

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Speaker 1: to be a better fit for you.

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Speaker 2: You know, the first couple of therapists we just didn't jive.

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Speaker 2: And the first one was like, you need a manicure,

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Speaker 2: you need a massage, and I'm like, I know those

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Speaker 2: things like first like self care, but I recognize that

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Speaker 2: there was so much deeper, so many deeper things that

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Speaker 2: were going on with me, and we just didn't jibe.

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Speaker 2: And when I well, first of all, when she told

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Speaker 2: me she didn't care about my book, you know, she

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Speaker 2: was very frank, she pulled no punches, but she was

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Speaker 2: also very compassionate. She asked the right questions. She started

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Speaker 2: asking me questions about my sleep. She started asking questions

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Speaker 2: about hygiene. You know, some days I was like, I

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Speaker 2: don't even want to goe out of a bed, take a shower.

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Speaker 2: You know. She asked questions about what my eating was like,

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Speaker 2: what my libido was like, which was nonexistent. She started

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Speaker 2: asking the right questions and it didn't take her long

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Speaker 2: asking the right questions to identify what was really going on.

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Speaker 2: And I will say this, I know that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to be but she was also a black therapist,

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Speaker 2: and that made a difference personally for me. I felt

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Speaker 2: seen and understood. I felt like there were subtleties of

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Speaker 2: my experience, especially as a black woman in publishing, navigating

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Speaker 2: a very white dominated space. There are certain systemic barriers

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Speaker 2: I'm up against all the time. Having a therapist who

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Speaker 2: understands those subtleties, the subtleties of what that feels like

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Speaker 2: and what that looks like, and doesn't think I'm imagining

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Speaker 2: it or take it for granted, but considers it in

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Speaker 2: in our conversations makes a really really big difference for me.

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Speaker 1: So in Can't Get Enough, we see an expansion really

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Speaker 1: of Hendrix's story. He's really kind of stepping out into

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Speaker 1: the light on her own. So what was it like

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Speaker 1: to kind of expand her story and kind of have

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Speaker 1: her be the main character here?

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Speaker 2: It was a delight, you know, in the sense that

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Speaker 2: this series, it's these three women, and you know, each

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Speaker 2: of them kind of gets their turn in the spotlight.

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Speaker 2: But I'm dropping like little hints about Hendrix throughout the

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Speaker 2: first two books, Like even in the first book we

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Speaker 2: mentioned her mom has some form of dementia, you know,

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Speaker 2: So that wasn't a surprise for anyone who had been

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Speaker 2: reading the series. The first book is heavy, very heavy,

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Speaker 2: you know, in a lot of ways, because we're dealing

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Speaker 2: with depression and then the grief. We're dealing with all

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Speaker 2: these things. It's a late term pregnancy, Like there is

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Speaker 2: all of this heavy material that's in the first book

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Speaker 2: that I tried to be very thoughtful about and wrote

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Speaker 2: in concert with therapist and people who live those experiences.

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Speaker 2: And Hendrix kind of comes in a lot of times

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Speaker 2: as comic relief. It's like, this is heavy. This is heavy.

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Speaker 2: This is heavy. And then Hendrix pops in with something

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Speaker 2: and you're like, Okay, I can breathe, Okay, I can laugh.

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Speaker 2: This is heavy. This is heavy. This is heavy. And

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Speaker 2: then Hendrix again is like, hey, you know, we're still

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Speaker 2: having fun. We're still here for whatever. And she also

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Speaker 2: in those other two books was incredibly supportive to her

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Speaker 2: friends and she showed up for them, and it was

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Speaker 2: apparent to the reader that this is somebody who's like

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Speaker 2: write or die, Like, this is somebody you want in

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Speaker 2: a pinch if you're having a hard time, this is

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Speaker 2: who you want. And it was really her time to

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Speaker 2: look to her friends to be that for her and

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Speaker 2: so building her out as not just comic relief, not

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Speaker 2: just the good time girl, but as a fully dimensional

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Speaker 2: woman who has joy, has all this joy, and is

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Speaker 2: so such a good friend to everybody else. You know,

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Speaker 2: she has the rich auntie vibes. She is childless by choice.

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Speaker 2: You know, she doesn't want to have kids ever and

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Speaker 2: doesn't feel like she should have to provide an excuse,

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Speaker 2: a reason, a trauma. You know, She's like, I just

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Speaker 2: don't want kids and that's okay. But she loves everybody

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Speaker 2: else's kids. So this is a very warm woman who

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Speaker 2: is there for everyone else. This is a story where

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Speaker 2: she has to learn to lean on her friends and

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Speaker 2: to lean on her family because her aunt comes in

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Speaker 2: and helps her with her mother's care. It's too much

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Speaker 2: for her on her own. And I really enjoy building

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Speaker 2: this aspect out. We knew that she was a businesswoman.

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Speaker 2: We knew that she was running her own business. She

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Speaker 2: manages celebrities, especially like reality TV star celebrities like think

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Speaker 2: you know, housewives kind of thing. We knew that about her.

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Speaker 2: But what we didn't know is her role in venture

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Speaker 2: capital and that she and a group of her so

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Speaker 2: wars had started a venture capital fund that was focused

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Speaker 2: on black women founders. You know, we didn't know that

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Speaker 2: about her. We didn't stand how committed to her community

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Speaker 2: she was that way, and that was a lot of

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Speaker 2: fun for me to build out. I didn't know a

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Speaker 2: lot about venture capital, and so the research for that

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Speaker 2: was fun. And I started writing this right around the

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Speaker 2: same time that everything was happening with the Fearless Fund,

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Speaker 2: So that was very interesting, and I really dug into

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Speaker 2: some of those themes of affirmative action DEI things that

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Speaker 2: are very prescient for where we are now, and at

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Speaker 2: the time I didn't realize how prescient it would be.

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Speaker 2: I wish it wasn't as prescient as it is. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of those aspects went into building her character out,

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Speaker 2: and then we see her as someone who for me,

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Speaker 2: she's a plus size brown woman, and I wanted her

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Speaker 2: to be the main character. I wanted her to be

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Speaker 2: someone's obsession, you know, in a healthy way. I call

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Speaker 2: it a chasing romance. Sometimes those are not the women

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Speaker 2: we are seeing at the center. Sometimes those are the

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Speaker 2: women who are the sidekicks, so that you know, the

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Speaker 2: funny best friend. I didn't want to treat her reductively.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that. I wanted to build

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Speaker 2: her out in all of her dimensions, and then I

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Speaker 2: wanted to celebrate her at the center of the story

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Speaker 2: as the love interest and have this man who's incredibly

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Speaker 2: eligible and who could have anybody want her. That was

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Speaker 2: really important to me for women who are plus sized

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Speaker 2: like me, you know, women who are black like me,

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Speaker 2: to see ourselves at the center and to see ourselves

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Speaker 2: pursued and loved outrageously and called worthy. That was really

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Speaker 2: important for Hendrix as a character for what it represented,

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Speaker 2: and then for this story specifically.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So you're talking about this love interest who

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Speaker 1: is Maverick in the story, right, so we see him

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Speaker 1: introduce there. When you think about, like who the love

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Speaker 1: interests for Hendrix would be, what really inspired the Maverick

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Speaker 1: care is there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I always talk about usually I'm building out like

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Speaker 2: if it's a guy and a girl, you know, if

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Speaker 2: it's not sapphic or whatever, but if it's a guy

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Speaker 2: and a girl, I always build a woman first, and

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Speaker 2: then I build a man who is worthy of her.

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Speaker 2: That's how I think about my process as far as

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Speaker 2: character development is I build an incredible woman and then

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Speaker 2: I build a man who's worthy of her. And so

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Speaker 2: Hendrix is such a dynamic character, and she is very independent,

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Speaker 2: and she's like, I'm good all by myself. And her

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Speaker 2: big thing is I will never settle, you know. I'd

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Speaker 2: rather not have a husband. I'd rather not have a

390
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Speaker 2: romantic partner than have someone who doesn't deserve me. And

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Speaker 2: so that has been her perspective. And so I knew

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Speaker 2: that Maverick is going to have to be very special.

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Speaker 2: I knew that he was going to have to bring

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Speaker 2: it because Hendrix is not easily impressed. She doesn't need

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Speaker 2: anything from anyone else materially, but what she needed was

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Speaker 2: someone who could be a soft place for her to land.

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Speaker 2: And the thing I loved about Maverick is a lot

398
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Speaker 2: of times when I'm writing romance, there are certain tropes,

399
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Speaker 2: you know, that romance readers enjoy, and I like to

400
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 2: introduce those tropes but then kind of subvert them, like

401
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 2: kind of twist them around a little bit, like the

402
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 2: billionaire romance so big right now, and I'm like, yes, okay,

403
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 2: let's do this. But what if he's a billionaire who

404
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 2: gives outrageously to historically black colleges and universities? What if

405
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 2: he's a billionaire who sees how marijuana, you know, has

406
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 2: been criminalized in the past and specifically weaponized against black men,

407
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: and decides, once it's legal, I'm going to create a fund,

408
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Speaker 2: you know, and we're going to create generational wealth with

409
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Speaker 2: this now that it's legal. Like, what if we had

410
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: someone who is a man of means but also a

411
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Speaker 2: man of mission, a man of purpose, who supports his community.

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Speaker 2: What if that is what the billionaire trope looked like.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what Maverick is. And I'm a basketball girl,

414
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Speaker 2: you know, So Maverick is also you know, he's someone

415
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: who wants to be an owner, you know, of a

416
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Speaker 2: professional basketball team, which is not something we have enough

417
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: of where we see black men who are ownership in sports.

418
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Speaker 2: So that aspect is there in the story too. So

419
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Speaker 2: I love writing aspirational characters, not perfect, flawed, but also ambitious, yes,

420
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Speaker 2: but vulnerable, you know. And Hendrix is that, you know,

421
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 2: she has these vulnerabilities. And when you are a dynamic, powerful,

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Speaker 2: ambitious woman like Hendrix, you want to be vulnerable with

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Speaker 2: someone who is going to appreciate that about you and

424
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Speaker 2: who is going to be that soft place to land

425
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Speaker 2: and so I think that's that's how I formed Maverick,

426
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: thinking about what she would need and who is someone

427
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: who she would feel like she wasn't settling for, because

428
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Speaker 2: that's her big thing is if I'm doing okay all

429
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Speaker 2: by myself, why do I need you? You know? And

430
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 2: he showed her all of the soft things, the love,

431
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: the protection, the respect, and she wanted someone who would

432
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 2: respect her dreams and her ambitions equally, which a lot

433
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: of times for powerful women that can be hard for

434
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 2: men who don't check their own egos or who want

435
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: to feel like women need to be dependent on them.

436
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 2: So he needed to be someone who's very secure, you know,

437
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: in his own manhood and in his place in Hendrix's life.

438
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So you mentioned

439
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: this a little earlier, but there is a beautiful parallel

440
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 1: I think between like the romantic love interests we see

441
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: in the Sisterhood love language that we see kind of

442
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 1: among the three characters. Can you talk a little bit

443
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: about that and like why it felt important to include

444
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: that across this trilogy.

445
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. I think one of my favorite quotes from

446
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: the whole trilogy is there aren't enough sonnets for friendship,

447
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: and I think that embodies exactly what you're talking about,

448
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: which is that culturally, we often put so much emphasis

449
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 2: on romantic love and don't really recognize and acknowledge how

450
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 2: important other types of love are. And one of the

451
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: ones I really wanted to lean into with this one

452
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: is friendship and sister love. These three women think of

453
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: themselves as platonic soulmates, you know, they think, these are

454
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: my people. We're in it for life. Anything they need,

455
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do. I grew up seeing that,

456
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 2: and I didn't realize it, I don't think until I

457
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: got deeper into the series and I realized those are

458
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 2: the kinds of friendships that my mom has and that

459
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 2: she surrounded herself with and seeing the importance of community

460
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: and sisterhood, and I wanted this story to reflect that.

461
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: And I think that we're in a time where community

462
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: is more important than it's ever been. You know, when

463
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 2: you can't depend on some of the systems that are

464
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: supposed to be there for you, or the government or

465
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: whatever it is, having an inner circle, having a community,

466
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: having friends is tatamount. And I think that's what this

467
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: big part of this series is about. And I also

468
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: talk in this series about loving yourself, especially in the

469
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 2: second book, about how loving yourself is the foundation for

470
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: all those other loves you know, and really leaning into

471
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: all about love by Belle Hooks, really leaning into that

472
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: as a text that's a foundation for the series, but

473
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: building on that familial love, sister love, and friendship, and

474
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: then of course romantic love. So that's kind of how

475
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 2: I approached it. But it's it's esteemed, you know, in

476
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: a way that sometimes sometimes people don't see as much

477
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 2: in romance because of course the emphasis is so much

478
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: on romantic love. But I also think that there's so

479
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 2: much we learn about people when we know who their

480
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 2: friends are and when we know who their family is.

481
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: Like there's to me that is a part of building character,

482
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: is who are your friends? Because that also tells me

483
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: a lot about what you value. It tells me about

484
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: what you enjoy, what makes you laugh, who you are

485
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: when the cameras are off, or when you are not

486
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: at work or you're not you know, you can do

487
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: the code switch and you can completely relax, like who

488
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: are you then? And I think one of the best

489
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: contexts for that is true friendship. And so there's a

490
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: lot about character that we learn when we have that,

491
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: and so that was really important to me.

492
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: So there's this beautiful layer I think also where we

493
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: see like this balance between resistance and softness for Hendrix

494
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: that I feel like is really a big deal for

495
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: black women, right like when we're often for to choose

496
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: one or the other. Can you talk about like the

497
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: tension that exists there and why it felt important to

498
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:05,479
Speaker 1: include that.

499
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: Yes, I think I already knew you know, that has

500
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: been a tension for us forever. You know, that balance

501
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 2: of when do I get to be soft and when

502
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: do I have to work? You know in culture, when

503
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: you're hearing all the time you got to be three times,

504
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 2: four times, five times is good. You know, all of

505
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: those things inform the way we work and informs the

506
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: way we dream. You know, it affects all of that.

507
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: And Hendrix is kind of that, like black Girl, Magic Girl,

508
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: And there's this one passage where she talks about black

509
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: Girl magic and she talks about how it's not a

510
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: wand it's work and that so many times we're magical

511
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: out of necessity because we have to be to survive,

512
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: and that it's resilience. So in thinking about that, It's

513
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: so funny because we are in a place where, especially

514
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: Black women in America, the overwhelming majority of us had

515
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: a vision for this country that didn't come to pass,

516
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: and that was very disillusioning and very painful. I think

517
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: so many of us grieved it and are still grieving it.

518
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: And it's interesting to see as the protests break out

519
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: that we are not showing up the way that we

520
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: have before physically, like in the streets. It was so

521
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: funny because someone posted it was in Atlanta, which I've

522
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: spent twenty years in Atlanta, so Atlanta feels most like

523
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: home to me, but it was in Atlanta, and it

524
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: showed this protest out in the street and these three

525
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: or four black women like having mimosas or something like

526
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: looking out the window like Okay, I see you go off.

527
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: You know, Like we are in this space where and

528
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: I am constantly finding that balance because at the same

529
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: time that I want to protect myself and I'm also

530
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: a little indignant that certain things have happened when we

531
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 2: tried to warn people, and we have always been the

532
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: engine for resistance in this country. It is interesting to

533
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: be at a place where we're like, oh, we're going

534
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: to be soft for a while. You know, we're going

535
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: to get our fans out. We're gonna, you know, learn

536
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: a new dance, and we're gonna do all these things.

537
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I am also a mom

538
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: of a special needs son, and so I'm concerned about medicaid.

539
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: I'm concerned about medicare for my parents. I'm concerned about

540
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: the world for my queer friends. So it's like balancing

541
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 2: how do I express resistance in a way that is

542
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: safe for me right now? And I am finding that.

543
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: I think a lot of black women are finding that,

544
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: and every it looks different for everybody, and we all

545
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: have to figure it out for ourselves. But it's so

546
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: funny because I had written the first version, a couple

547
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: of versions of this book, and we were in the

548
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: final edits and the election happened, and I changed the

549
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: dedication the day after the election, and I changed the

550
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: dedication to this for the ones who have used your

551
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 2: magic to lift, protect, and illuminate everybody else. Rest is

552
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: your new resistance. Rest and shine My loves Rest and shine.

553
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of where we are. You know,

554
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: there's this balance of resting, resisting, but also shining polishing

555
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: ourselves up, taking care of ourselves in the ways that

556
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: feel right for us as individuals, creating community, making sure

557
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: that we are supporting each other. Those bonds in our side,

558
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: our community are, like I said before, more important than ever,

559
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: with so many systems that are supposed to create any

560
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: kind of equity, are supposed to create support being stripped.

561
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: For me, I can't check out completely because it's not

562
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: just like this country's going to you know, pot or whatever.

563
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: It is specific lives of people I love that are

564
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: attached to those things. So I think it's figuring out

565
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: how you want to resist and what feels right for you,

566
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: but then also protecting your peace. And I think that

567
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: Hendrix's story kind of embodies that. We see them that

568
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 2: the and we see her courtside with like multi thousand

569
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: dollars tickets, and we see her on a yacht, you know,

570
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: and we see her on a private plane, like we

571
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: see her balling and iceed out. We see all of

572
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: those things and like that life. But then we also

573
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: see her when it is the right time and when

574
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: it is her choice, on the front lines of resistance,

575
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: specifically around black women in venture capital and fighting for

576
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: more for her community and for women black founders, black

577
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: women founders. So I think her story is that balance.

578
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 2: We see all of that soft life stuff, but at

579
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: the same time we also see her when she's ready

580
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: and on her term, standing up, resisting fighting.

581
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So I don't

582
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: want to spoil it because I know the reader is

583
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: wing too experience it for themselves. But there is a

584
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: part that I think will stick with a lot of

585
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: people and maybe take them to their journals to think

586
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: about this question for themselves. So there's a moment that

587
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: causes Hendrick to ask herself, was Maverick asking me to

588
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: give up on my dreams or asking to run with

589
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: me while I chase them?

590
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: So?

591
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: What made you include this moment and what do you

592
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: think this will maybe open up or allow other people

593
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: to think about in their own lives.

594
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is I mentioned earlier, a partner

595
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: who respects your dreams, you know, the same way they

596
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: respect their own. It's sometimes it can be hard to

597
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: find a partner, especially with kind of traditional male you know,

598
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: man woman dynamics. It can be hard to find a

599
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: partner who doesn't expect you to sideline your dreams. To

600
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: subjugate your ambitions to his. And I think that that

601
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: was an important question for Hendrix because she's like, I'm

602
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: not stopping. I'm not stopping, I'm not slowing down. I'm

603
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: not compromising. I'm not stopping what I'm doing. So we

604
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: can do you know, whatever you do, I might not

605
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: be following you like she needed a partner who understood that.

606
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: And I think it is more common than not that

607
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: a lot of women we have big dreams, big ambitions,

608
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: and when we get married, when we have children, it

609
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: changes the dynamics for us in a way that it

610
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: doesn't traditionally change them for men. We are the ones

611
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: who potentially end up with pregnancy leaves that maybe slow

612
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: us down in our career tracks. We tend to be

613
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: the ones who bear the burden of taking care of

614
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: the home, of taking care of the kids. Now that

615
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: you can have a partner who helps with that, like absolutely,

616
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: but conventionally, historically women have borne the brunt of that,

617
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: and it can slow down our ambitions. It can for

618
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: some of us, sideline our dreams. And I think it's

619
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: really important for you to ask questions about your own

620
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,959
Speaker 2: dreams and your own ambitions and the thing I love

621
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: about Hendrix too, and all the women in this book

622
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: is that they're older, older than most romance novels. Like

623
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: most romance novels, a lot of romance novels, you know,

624
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: there are people in there twenties and maybe early thirties.

625
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: These women are forty years old. They've lived a little,

626
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: they got some good miles on them. But that also

627
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: means Hendrix knows exactly who she is, and she knows

628
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: exactly what she wants from life. And sometimes when we

629
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: come together with a partner and we haven't taken the

630
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: time to really know ourselves, we haven't taken the time

631
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: to really explore our own ambitions. We haven't taken the

632
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: time to really figure out what are our dreams and

633
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: how are we going to accomplish those things. Sometimes, when

634
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,239
Speaker 2: we haven't spent time with ourselves to understand who we

635
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: are and what we want, when we get with a partner,

636
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: some of that can be absorbed by their dreams, by

637
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: their ambitions, or by the shape they want to see

638
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: us in. Hendrix is like, I got a shape. You know,

639
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: this is who I am. I'm not going to try

640
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: to change you. Don't you try to change me? If

641
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: we can exist together if we can love each other

642
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 2: as we are. That doesn't mean that you don't ever compromise,

643
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: but there's a respect for how a person is made.

644
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: There's a respect for what a person ambitions and dreams are.

645
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: And I think that's what we see with Hendrix, a

646
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: very strong sense of self that and she talks about it.

647
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: She's like, you know, in my thirties, I was in

648
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: the streets looking for what, But now I'm settled. I

649
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: know who I am, I know what I want, and

650
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: I'm not going to change that to be with someone.

651
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: I want to be with someone who wants me as

652
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: I am. And I think that's something that we as

653
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: women have to ask ourselves. What are we willing to compromise?

654
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: What aren't we willing to compromise? What aren't we willing

655
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: to settle for? How do we protect our dreams and

656
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: our ambitions and at the same time align ourselves with

657
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: a partner who loves and respects us. Those are some

658
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: of the questions that kind of rise to the surface

659
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: in this story. And when we talk about children, it's

660
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: kind of self eliminating a little bit, because there are

661
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: men who are like I want a family, you don't

662
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: want kids, You're not for me. And Hindus is like, well,

663
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: I don't want kids, so you're not for me. I'm

664
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: not for you. Deuces cool, have a great life. And

665
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: it's so interesting because when I was talking with some

666
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: friends when I was first writing the story, and I

667
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: was telling them that she was childless by choice. And

668
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: this was before, like Hendricks has been childlessed by choice

669
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: since the first story, which was in twenty twenty two,

670
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 2: and so we didn't have all of the cultural conversation

671
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: that we've had around child's by choice over the last

672
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: year or so. In the same way, that's just who

673
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: she was. But I remember some of my friends going, oh,

674
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: are you concerned that people will think she's cold? And

675
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: I was like, why why would people think she's cold

676
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: because she doesn't want to have kids. And I'm like, oh, wow,

677
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 2: you think that you think that a woman is cold

678
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: if she doesn't want to have children. And they're great people,

679
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, but it's so baked into us that as

680
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: a woman, that is an expression of our womanhood. And

681
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: I've been telling people we are not our wombs, you know,

682
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: Like this country is so fixated on defining women by

683
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: our wombs, our reproductive rights and whether or not we

684
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: have kids and all of the things, and I'm like,

685
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: hands off, we are bigger than our reproductive organs, Like

686
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 2: why are you defining if I'm cold or if I'm warm,

687
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: or if I'm generous or if I'm kind by if

688
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 2: I have children. And there's this part of the book

689
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: where Hendrix talks about, you know, I may not have kids.

690
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: There are women like me. We may never have children,

691
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: but we are godmothers, we are aunts. We are pushing

692
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: our love out into the world on our terms. Let

693
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: us love people the way that feels right for us.

694
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: And so I think that's something that all of those

695
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: questions I think rise to the surface when you're reading

696
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: this book, or at least I hope they do. I

697
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: wanted them to.

698
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I think about book talk and Booksagram,

699
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: it feels synonymous with Kennedy Ryan for me in another ways, Yeah,

700
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: Like I feel like your books was some of the

701
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: first that I saw, like, oh, people are like really

702
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: going to their for you pages and telling other people

703
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: to like read about them.

704
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: And I think that that.

705
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 1: Presents probably an interesting kind of conundrum when you're thinking about,

706
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: like how do you write your next books because you

707
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: know the fans are so involved, they will have responses,

708
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: They have lots of opinions, they have ideas about where

709
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: they think the story should go. So how do you

710
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: balance that right, like kind of you know, giving the

711
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: people what they want, so to speak with your own process.

712
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: Really as a creative.

713
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I actually have kind of a calculus

714
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: for how I write stories. It's like kind of a

715
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: three legged stool, you know, Like there are three things

716
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: that drive me in storytelling. One is creative conviction, like

717
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: what do I believe what is important to me and

718
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: what do I believe needs to be at the center

719
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: of this story. The other is intellectual curiosity. What am

720
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: I curious about? What do I want to learn? And

721
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: I hope that if it's something that's going to be

722
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: compelling enough for me and exciting for me to learn,

723
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: it would be exciting for our readis to learn. And

724
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: then artistic urgency, which is there's something happening right now

725
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: in the world that I feel like needs more discourse,

726
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: more shine. Is there an intersection between my work, my storytelling,

727
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: and this thing that's happening right now in the world

728
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: that will illuminate and amplify that discourse, and if so,

729
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: I'll write it. So those are kind of those these

730
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: three element that are present when I'm deciding what I'm

731
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: going to write, and that is a me process, that

732
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: is a process that insulates from anyone else's voice. We

733
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: talk about writing to market. I don't write to market,

734
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: which is when you look at trends and you're like, oh,

735
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna write this, I'm gonna write this. My career

736
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: is dumbfounding, do you know what I mean? Like, because

737
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 2: I don't write to the things that are popular, and

738
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: sometimes I write things or people are like, is that

739
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 2: even romance? You know, it feels like I'm often writing

740
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: against the grain. I don't you know sometimes understand how

741
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: my books have become even a little popular, except that

742
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: there are people who are drawn to the things that

743
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm drawn to, which is I like things that feel

744
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: like real life but also with joy. And I hear

745
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: people's opinions all the time. You know, when you talk

746
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: about BookTalk, you talk about TikTok. I love TikTok, like

747
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm on TikTok all the time, but I don't want

748
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: to see myself on TikTok. You know. I don't want

749
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: to see people talking about me TikTok, but it's inevitable,

750
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like, every time I

751
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: go on TikTok, the algorithm knows, oh, you're Kennedy Ryan.

752
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 2: We're going to show you stuff about Kennedy Ryan, And

753
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I don't want to see any of it.

754
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to know, you know. And it's so

755
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 2: funny because there is this I have intentions I always

756
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: talk about. I say this a lot. I say that

757
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: I don't just release a book. I send a book

758
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: on a mission, and I think about storytelling from a

759
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: missional perspective. There's something that I want that story to accomplish.

760
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: It is written from various specific belief systems, and it

761
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: has intentions. And when you're writing like that, when you

762
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: are crafting a story from there out, other people's opinions

763
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: don't necessarily come into it, as it's intrinsically insulated from that.

764
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: And then when it's out there and I've kind of

765
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 2: formed it, I'm like, well, what what kind of bone

766
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: could I throw? You know? A reader like, oh, he

767
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: could be a millionaire. But the story, the core of

768
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: the story does not grow from that, oh, like in

769
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 2: a storyline before I let go. One of the things

770
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: I was really concerned with, which is the first book

771
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: in the series, was destigmatizing mental health, specifically for the

772
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: black community and then most specifically for black men. And

773
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: so we see a man who is resistant to therapy

774
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: and then over the course of that story understands, oh,

775
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 2: I need this, like I won't survive without this. How

776
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: have I made it this long without this? And he

777
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: has this journey from being completely resistant to it till

778
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: by the end like knock emergency, I need to talk

779
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: to my therapists, right. And there are readers who are like,

780
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, why couldn't Josiah just have from the

781
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: beginning been like all in on therapy and he's not

782
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: my book boyfriend. And I'm like, well, I wasn't. Really,

783
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: I don't care about that, you know, I don't care

784
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: about book boyfriends. I care about that journey. My intention

785
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: was that journey. And the reason I did that is

786
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 2: because I know there are women whose partners are resistant

787
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: to therapy, women who would read that book and be

788
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: like this, this is what I'm talking about, baby, And

789
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: when I tell you, so many women message me. I

790
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: just gave it to him. I just gave it to

791
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: him and said, read it. And now we're in therapy.

792
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: He's in therapy. I call my insurance company, see if

793
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: they'll cover therapy. That is what I wanted. If he

794
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 2: is your book boyfriend, that is a side effect, that's

795
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 2: a byproduct to me. I don't write to those things.

796
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about those things. But at the same time,

797
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: in that book, where I was dealing with all of

798
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 2: those really heavier themes, and I had all these intentions,

799
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: and I sent the book on a mission. You know,

800
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: there is this point when they go to this hotel

801
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: and it's the only one bed trope. You know. It's

802
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: like they go to this hotel and they're supposed to

803
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: have two rooms. This is a classic romance trope, and

804
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, there's only one room. There's only one bed.

805
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: And as soon as a romance reader sees it, they're go, oh,

806
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: it's the only one bed trope, you know what I mean.

807
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 2: So it's like, oh, gosh, this book, this was only

808
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: one bedo, you know. So it's like I can thread

809
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: those things in. But a reader readers desires are never

810
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 2: dictating what I write. So that's kind of the balance is, Oh,

811
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: but look, I can give you only one bed. Oh

812
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 2: but look, I can give you this really cool meet cute.

813
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: Oh look, but I'm going to write what I'm going

814
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: to write and it's not going to be affected by

815
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: what people want.

816
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: So so what would you say? Kennedy Ryan's story always

817
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: promises readers.

818
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: I think that a Kennedy Ryan's story promises a woman

819
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: who is powerful, and that doesn't always mean what people assume.

820
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: I think that there's the strong that myth of the

821
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: strong black woman. I think I have characters who are

822
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 2: Some of them are like Hendrick's, you know, really really

823
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: powerful and right, you know, up front about ambitions. But

824
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 2: then we have some who they're not the one who

825
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: as soon as you walk into the room they're the

826
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: center of everything, who are quieter but strong in their

827
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: own way. So I think there's a strength, but I

828
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: also think there's a vulnerability in all of these characters.

829
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 2: And part of that is to say we don't have

830
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 2: to be strong all the time. We should be able

831
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: to be flawed, we should be able to have weaknesses,

832
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: we should be able to have pain that's acknowledged equally

833
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: and at the same time, you're going to see a

834
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: partner because it's a romance. You're going to see a

835
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: partner who loves that woman outrageously, who respects her as

836
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: an equal, and who makes her feel esteemed and celebrated.

837
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: I tend to write from the margins to the center.

838
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is one of the

839
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: hallmarks of my books is what I call sceneiness, meaning

840
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,959
Speaker 2: I like to write about women who are not used

841
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: to seeing themselves at the center of narrative and culture.

842
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: So I like to write about black women, brown women,

843
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: disabled women, chronically ill women, fat women, you know, like

844
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: neuro divergence, like those are not always the center of

845
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 2: the narrative. So I like to write from the margins

846
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: to the center. So you see that a lot in

847
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: my work. You're like, oh, okay, I see you. You know,

848
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: you right in the meadle. Are the main character. You're

849
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: not the sidekick, you're not the funny best friend. It's you.

850
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: So you often see that kind of like someone who

851
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: you're not used to seeing at the center of narrative

852
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: and culture, pulled from the edges to the center. You're

853
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: going to see a woman who doesn't settle, and even

854
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 2: if she settles at one point. Part of her journey

855
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: is figuring out that she doesn't have to. When you

856
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: see a character like Sulidad in the second book, The

857
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 2: Pink One, this could be us. This is a woman

858
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 2: who's married to you know, I'm not going to cuss

859
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 2: on your show, a pos, all right, married to a

860
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: pos trash garbage, and when he shows his true colors,

861
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: you know his true nature, this deep betrayal. She has

862
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: to start all over, and she has to start all over.

863
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: She has three kids, and she's now going from being

864
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 2: a stay at home mom to being a provider for

865
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: her home, maintaining this house, building a career, all of this,

866
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: but a career that's grounded in what she's gifted in.

867
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: And she's like, I have given him so much of

868
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: my power. So that whole journey is taking that power

869
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: back piece by piece and rebuilding herself into someone that

870
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 2: she and her daughters can be proud of. So every

871
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 2: journey looks different, but it is that how am I

872
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: taking my power, claiming my power, keeping my power, sharing

873
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: my power where it's necessary. And I think the other

874
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: thing that you'll see a lot in a Kennedy Ryan novel,

875
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 2: is I really see my work as this intersection of

876
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: swoon and social commentary. You will see that in most

877
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 2: of my books, you know, whether it's destigmatizing therapy, or

878
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: discussion of all the things that happen in book two

879
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: with her and rebuilding her career, or it's you know

880
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: what we see in book three, which is obviously what

881
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: does it look like now for us as a generation

882
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: caring for aging parents, but also the social commentary of

883
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: what does equity look like? Why is equity worth fighting for?

884
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: Why is it still a valid conversation for marginalized people

885
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 2: to still be demanding more than what we have been

886
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: given and what we've had opportunity for. Why is that

887
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: still a valid conversation? And all of those things are

888
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 2: going to happen in the context of a romance novel.

889
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: You know, I've had commentary on land grab. I've written

890
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: books that are commentary on climate change and the voter suppression,

891
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: missing and murdered indigenous women, intimate partner violence, like my

892
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: catalog is all of those things. So I really see

893
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: a lot of my work as this intersection of swoon

894
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 2: and social commentary. How do those things go together? And it's,

895
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: like I said, for me, romance is the most digestible genre,

896
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: so it goes down smooth all of a sudden. I'm

897
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 2: here for the kisses and the swoons and the spice,

898
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh wait, I'm asking myself real questions.

899
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm in my journal right now, like what happened? You know?

900
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 2: And so that is a hallmark of my work.

901
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that swoon in social commentary, we love it.

902
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 1: So where can we stay connected with you? Kennedy? Where

903
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: can we can't get enough? Where can we find you online?

904
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 2: Can't get enough? Comes out May thirteenth. I'm so excited

905
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 2: about it. It'll be out an ebook, print, audio, anywhere

906
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: you buy books, Amazon, indie stores. One thing that I'm

907
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: really proud of, and anyone who's listening can find me

908
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 2: on Instagram. You know, I'm on Instagram. I'm on barely

909
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: on x but still there. I'm on TikTok. But I

910
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,280
Speaker 2: have a bio and if you go to the link

911
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: in that bio, it will take you wherever you want

912
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: to go. One of the things I'm most proud of

913
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 2: about this particular campaign is that we my publisher and

914
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: I are partnering with black owned bookstores and we have

915
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 2: a pre order campaign that is specifically for black owned bookstores,

916
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: and when you buy, can't get enough through a black

917
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: owned bookstore. It's linked to my bio. You click there,

918
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: it'll show you all the black owned bookstores that are participating.

919
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 2: There are certain things that you can only get from

920
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: the Black owned bookstore pre order campaign. It's like full

921
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: color art, it's you know, sign book plates, it is

922
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 2: a bookmark, it's all you know, it's all very specific,

923
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: and you can't get it anywhere other than our Black

924
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 2: owned bookstore campaign. So that's one of my favorite ways

925
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: for people to buy these books. And I did that

926
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 2: for my last release, which was real, and we're doing

927
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: it again for this one because a lot of times

928
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 2: we are begging black authors, are begging retailers, we are

929
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 2: begging the big stores. We are begging people please carry

930
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 2: our books, Please give us visibility, please make space for us,

931
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 2: please get us on your shelves. And black owned bookstores

932
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven, three sixty five amplifying our stories,

933
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: supporting us as creatives. And so this is kind of

934
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: my way of saying, you amplify us, I amplify you.

935
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 2: I want to prioritize black owned bookstores and I want

936
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: to incentivize readers to support and buy from black owned bookstores.

937
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: Beautiful. Be sure to include all of that information in

938
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: our show notes. Thank you so much for spending some

939
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: time with me to day, Kennedy. I appreciate it.

940
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 2: For having me really appreciate it.

941
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad Kennedy was able to join

942
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: us today. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn

943
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: more about her or it's a pre order your copy

944
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: of Can't Get Enough, be sure to visit the show

945
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four ten,

946
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text this episode to two of

947
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 1: your girls right now and tell them to check it out.

948
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: Did you know that you can leave us a voicemail

949
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: with your questions and suggestions for the podcast. If you

950
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: have movies you'd like to suggest, or books you'd like

951
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: us to review, or even topics that you want to

952
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: hear us discuss, drop us a message at Memo dot

953
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know

954
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: what's on your mind. We just might feature it on

955
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,

956
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com

957
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: slash directory. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechubu

958
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank

959
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I

960
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

961
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: Take good care, what