1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. It's a rare event 2 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: in the criminal justice system when you have an individual 3 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: that actually pleads guilty. It seems truly to be the 4 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: exception and not the norm. I would imagine when you're 5 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: standing before what seems like a mountain of physical evidence 6 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: and you still have a few synapses firing in your 7 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: brain that give you an indication that this is a 8 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: losing battle, you have no other choice. Today we're going 9 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: to talk about the murder of a lovely woman by 10 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: the name of Beth Capaldi and her husband who decided 11 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: that he was going to end not just their marriage, 12 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: but her life over something that is so utterly bizarre. 13 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:31,199 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. Dave mac 14 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: my good friend, senior crime reporter with Crime Online. Hey, Dave, 15 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: I got a question for you, man. I was just 16 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: curious when you were a kid, did you like comic books? 17 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 2: I knew you were going to ask that. I knew 18 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: it and the right thing to say. Oh, I loved 19 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: him as a kid. I'm to be honest, I didn't 20 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: even really consider comic books as part of my life 21 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: until I started watching Big Bank you know, when it 22 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: was on all the time, and so when I saw 23 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: this article, it started digging in to the copalities and 24 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: it was like, I understand how that thinking is different 25 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: than what you and I might think about. But no, 26 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: I didn't get into the serialized comic books. The only 27 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: closest thing I'd come to with you the funny papers, 28 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: you know, Charlie Brown or a Mad magazine. I love 29 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: that one. 30 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: Oh, I love Man too. Listen, I have to admit 31 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: a weakness. I do love them. I love them as 32 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: a child. And it's interesting you said the comic strips. 33 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: What'd you refer to the mass the funny what papers? 34 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: The funny papers? Yeah? I know. And my granny she 35 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: would refer to comic books as funny books. Okay, I 36 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: guess it's rooted in this idea that you know that 37 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: it was escapism in order or it's perceived to get 38 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: a laugh. 39 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: Right. 40 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: The stuff that I was interested in was always serious. 41 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: I was a huge Marvel comic book guy, you know, 42 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: when I was young. Spider Man and Captain America and 43 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: all that stuff. It was fascinating to me. I'm particularly 44 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: struck by how much money is involved in that industry. 45 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: And now today it's an area where people can go 46 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: and and trade these things. And these things are like 47 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: hermetically sealed, right, yeah, you get you don't touch it. 48 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: Don't touch it, you set it up on the shelf 49 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: because it's got this value to it. The beauty of 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: it is you used to can roll it up in 51 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: your back pocket, you know, and carry it and you know, 52 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: throw it all over the place, and no telling in 53 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: today's standards, there's no telling how many dollars I actually 54 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: threw away. 55 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: I never mocked people for doing the comic book thing. 56 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: I just I don't because we all get into different things, 57 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: but we do. I will tell you this. I saw 58 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: Iron Man the first, you know, Robert Downey Jr. I 59 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: watched it because I like the work of John Fovro. 60 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: I've always been a cheerleader for Robert Downey Jr. And 61 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: I watched the movie and didn't know that this was 62 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: based on a comic book. I didn't know, really, I 63 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: just thought, yes, I had no idea, and I'm talking, 64 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: I had no idea, Joe. 65 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: I totally stupid. 66 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: Afterwards, because I've got into the movie, I'm like, well, 67 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: maybe I'll be into the comics. So I got a book. 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: I got a comic book, not a book. We got 69 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: a comic book and open it went okay, yeah, and 70 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: still not my thing. 71 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: You know, that just means that you were interested in 72 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: other things, and that's that's kind of cool. With Stephen Cabaldi, 73 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: I got, I gotta tell you, i'd we cover a 74 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: lot of cases on body bags that are driven by passion, 75 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: and I guess you can have passion in different areas, 76 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: and most of the time it's a romantic passion. You 77 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: know that you've got jealousy that rises up, or you've 78 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: got people that want to get out of a relationship 79 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: and go into something else. But Dave, I got to 80 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: tell you, in this particular case, we've got a combo 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: of both. We've got infidelity and wow, we got comic books. 82 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: Unbelievable that we could actually be at the center of 83 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: this and it was part of it. And I'm glad 84 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: you pointed that out. Many of the stories that we 85 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: cover in crime deal with the base sexual he needs 86 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 2: human beings team to have and the links they're willing 87 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: to go to break bonds that they stood in front of, 88 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: oftentimes their family friends and God Almighty and said for 89 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: better for worse sickness and health. I'm here for you 90 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: after thirty years. You know, I really want to open 91 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: up a comic book store with my brother, and my 92 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: wife just will not support this idea, and so he's 93 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: out trolling for somebody who will support that idea, and 94 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: he finds her. I can't think, Joe, that this is 95 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: all there is, but it is. It is that basic 96 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: stuff right there. He wanted to do something his wife 97 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: didn't have a thing for, and he became interested in 98 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: another woman. At fifty seven years old, thirty years of marriage. 99 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 2: You decide, you know what, I've had enough of you, 100 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: and so you get down to the nitty gritty here, 101 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: What do you do if your goal is to end 102 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: this marriage? Well, one pick up the phone, call an 103 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: attorney and have a meeting of what can I do 104 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: to extricate myself from this horrible situation I'm in with 105 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: my wife of thirty years, who, by the way, still 106 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: loves me. 107 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 3: Now, let's not do that. 108 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: Let me find a good way to put her out 109 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: of her misery and mind so that I can start 110 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: this new business with my brother. 111 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: You sit back and you consider this, and is it 112 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: a matter I wonder of just being laser focused on 113 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: this thing that you think is going to satisfy this 114 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: urge that you have this long term goal of owning 115 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: a comic book store. Not that there's anything wrong with that, 116 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: but there's certain ways that you go about it. It's 117 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: certainly not as would be revealed down the road. You 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: think about, well, I'm going to go and I'm going 119 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: to go on and do a search for how is 120 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: it that I can get a great business loan. Now 121 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: you're going to go and do a search of what 122 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: does it take to pass a polygraph? 123 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: If something happened to my wife and the police, I 124 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: would be the first one they'd look at. They would investigate, 125 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: and they would look at the books I have, look 126 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: at the shows and the research I do, and I'm 127 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: telling you, within about thirty seconds, I would be in 128 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: handcuffs being walked out to the car for an interrogation 129 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: just because I have all these things. Okay, I have, 130 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: but I have a reason for it. I do a 131 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: show with Joe Scott Morgan called body Bags. I'm a 132 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: crime reporter on other shows, so I have research on 133 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: my computer, like how to get away with murder? Can 134 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: you avoid police detection? By turning off your phone, how 135 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: to control your dark impulses. These are just some of 136 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: the things that Stephen Capaldi researched prior to his wife's demise. 137 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: If you're taking this amount of intellectual power and applying 138 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: it toward that, and he even mentioned these things are dark, 139 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: so automatically from Jump Street, he's acknowledging what the path 140 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: that he's going down is very sinister, I mean very 141 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: very sinister. He is applying all of his efforts in 142 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: that particular area. And this is a guy that, along 143 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: with his wife, that's established a family. They've been married 144 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: thirty years now, and they kind of drift apart over 145 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: over years. They're not as intimate, they're not as close 146 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: as they once were. Why are you going to pick 147 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: up a brick and throw it through a stained glass window. 148 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't understand that necessarily, but it's amazing to me 149 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: the way people will do these sorts of things, and 150 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: they I think from my perspective as a forensics guy, 151 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: we are so detailed in what we do from an 152 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: investigative standpoint that we get to go back and look 153 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: at things when there is a pause. Right, We're not 154 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: going into scenes in an urgent state of mind. We 155 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: try to be methodical, We try to be well planned 156 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: before we enter in because we've done this so many times, 157 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: and we try to be very accurate in our practice. 158 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: You got a guy who is looking completely to rip 159 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: apart his family and his wife's life. He did not 160 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: consider all of those fine details that are going to 161 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: wind up having you stand before a judge at some 162 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: point in time, and all of these things are going 163 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: to be elisted and you're going to eventually have to 164 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: stand and answer for what you've done. You think about 165 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: it just for a second, and if he had an 166 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to go back in time and consider what he 167 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: had undertaken, I think that Stephen Capaldi may have chose 168 00:09:52,120 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: a different path. All that remains that's a term that's 169 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: been applied in forensics. I think there's certainly been a 170 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: fictional novel that has that title that falls back into forensics. 171 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: But all that remains is I think it's very appropriate. 172 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: In the case of Beth Capaldy. She occupies a home, 173 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: a dwelling that she's probably lived in for a goodly 174 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: part of her life, and suddenly she's absent from there. 175 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: What is it that remains of her. What is it 176 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: that's left behind that can help an investigate or try 177 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: to determine what's kurt? Did she just merely vanish into 178 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: thin air. 179 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: That's exactly what they walked into, Joe. When Emma Capaldi, 180 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: that would be the daughter of Stephen and Beth, she 181 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: hadn't talked to her mother for a couple of days, 182 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: and she goes to her dad and says, hey, I 183 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: haven't talked to mom in a couple of days. What's 184 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: going on? And he doesn't really have a satisfying answer 185 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 2: for her. So she calls the police and says, I 186 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: can't find my mom. My dad's no help. Car is here, 187 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: her phone is here, but she's nowhere to be found, 188 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: and I don't know what to do. That's what police 189 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: came into in this particular story, that phone call, and 190 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: they came on scene and as they do, they took 191 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: a report. They talked with em about what her relationship 192 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: was with her mother and how often they talk to 193 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 2: establish kind of the boundaries that this is way out 194 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: of the norm for Beth Capaldi to not be in 195 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: touch with their daughter. And then two is, well, let's 196 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: talk to the husband's slash father here and Steven. Well, 197 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: Emma told the police, Hey, when I talk to my 198 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: dad about this and told him I was thinking about 199 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 2: calling you, he said, yeah, do what you have to do, 200 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: do what you think you have to do. 201 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: Well? 202 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 2: Does that phrase, do what you think you have to 203 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 2: do sound like something coming from a concerned husband wife 204 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: of thirty years is missing, and the best you can 205 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: come up with is, hey, do what you think you 206 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 2: have to do. 207 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: I got to stop you right there, David. It almost 208 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: smacks of a response to a threat. I mean, I've 209 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: been in situations before where I've been unseen as an investigator, 210 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: and I've had people say keep doing this, I'm going 211 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: to sue. My flippant response is do what you gotta do. 212 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: You think about the relationship between a husband and wife 213 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: and their daughter too, right, Who's actually going to say 214 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,599 Speaker 1: that to their daughter? Who is looking that's concerned about her? Mama? 215 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: You know what what's occurred? Where is she? I want 216 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: to talk to mama? Well, I don't know. I'm going 217 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: to reach out and do what I have to do. Well, 218 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: do what you got to do? Who says that. 219 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: That's the thing he never bothered to call that's the 220 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: thing his daughter is like, why didn't you call? He 221 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: didn't and so boom, there's your phone call. And that's 222 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 2: why Joe. When I first saw this, my thought was, 223 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: what would you do? You get the call later on? 224 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 2: Usually they don't call you into this first meeting, do they. 225 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: When the police are they're taking their notes, they call 226 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: you up later on say hey, man, this woman's missing. 227 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: It's started here in this house, but we don't know 228 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: anything else. Do you come into that environment, Joe and 229 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: start sniffing around with luminol and black lights or what 230 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: do you do? 231 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Well, if you're talking about a missing person's case, which 232 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: you would think that that's kind of the starting point, 233 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: and there's any number of examples of this throughout the 234 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: years that we could certainly revisit. But you think about 235 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: someone is summoned to a location and they say, hey, 236 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: my child is missing or my spouse is missing. You 237 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: don't begin to work that case as if it is 238 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: a homicide. Okay, that's just not that's not your that's 239 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: not your response as an investigator. You know, you begin 240 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: to try to piece things together when you look at 241 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: the scene and knowing that, let's face it, Beth worked 242 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: from home. This was not only her home, it was 243 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: her office as well. So most of her life is 244 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: spent in his home in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and so 245 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: you would think that there would be evidence of her 246 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: having lived a daily life there everything that comes along 247 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: with that. If she leaves the house, you'd expect to 248 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: find an absence of certain things wallet or phone, or 249 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: car keys and all of that. That's where you start 250 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: in a missing person's case. And then of course you've 251 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: got this digital signature she's using a cell phone. And 252 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: going back to what she had said earlier regarding their daughter, Emma, look, 253 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: I can only I can only state in my life 254 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: that my wife and my daughter they talk probably twice 255 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: daily at least, and then I will talk to my daughter. 256 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: And if she hasn't heard from us, or we haven't 257 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: heard from her, we're going to be concerned at that 258 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: point in time. And if one of us hasn't heard 259 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: from from my wife, we're going to be calling one another. 260 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: If you talk to mom lately, no, when did you 261 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: last talk to you? And you kind of go back 262 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: and forth, and there's kind of an urgency, nothing necessarily 263 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: to get worried about, but you you want to you 264 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: want to have contact because it's absent the norm. You 265 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, right, it's it's not it. We 266 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: look for these patterns that develop in a person's life, 267 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: and once those patterns are being broken in some way, 268 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: when people begin to act outside those normal ranges that 269 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: they work within on a daily basis, then that's that's 270 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of that's a tough thing, it really is. And 271 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: then I think that it's at that point that police, 272 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: after they question you had mentioned those individuals that are 273 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: in that intimate circle, you know, who's more intimate than 274 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: a spouse. You begin to see how they behave, how 275 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: they react. You begin to kind of dig in, look 276 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: beneath the surface and try to understand is the story 277 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: they're telling you, does it marry up with what you're 278 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: seeing evidenced before you? And can they maintain the same 279 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: narrative over and over again. That's why when police question people, 280 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: many times you will see them ask the same question 281 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: over and over again, and sometimes they'll rephrase it. But 282 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: they want to see if what you're saying in the 283 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: present marries up with what you said two hours ago, 284 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: or an hour ago, or even thirty minutes ago. They 285 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: want to see if there are any deviations from that standard. 286 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 287 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: One way they do that is while they're interviewing you. 288 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: But I hate to call somebody assessed right off the bat, 289 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: but you know, when a spouse is missing, the other 290 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: one is pri he's the immediate concern. 291 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, they'll. 292 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 3: Break him down. 293 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: They'll ask questions, Hey, what did you do last night? 294 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: And in this case, that's how we know that. In 295 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: one of the first interviews, talking to him, what were 296 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: you guys doing last night when you were last with her? 297 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: And he said, we watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer, sitting 298 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: on the couch and we were holding hands. Okay, that's 299 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 2: what he said they did at the last time they 300 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 2: were together. Now, the reason they know that is because, 301 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: like you said, they'll use that later to trip him up. 302 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: What they probably said during the course of this interview 303 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 2: about what time was that really? When did you start 304 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: watching it? About eight eight fifteen? Well was it eight 305 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: or eight fifteen? Was it closer to eight ten? Yeah, 306 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: eight twelve. Now it seems innocuous, but if you're telling 307 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: the truth, you know what time you did something, and 308 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: when they get that information from you, Okay, it was 309 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: about eight twelve, you have a reason for thinking that 310 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: way and remembering it that way. So an hour later 311 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: when they ask you the same question, they won't throw 312 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: it out as what time. They will say, Okay, you 313 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: said you guys were watching TV around A fifteen or so, right, 314 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: and then you write that down. Well, all of a sudden, 315 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: when you say, yep, that's right, they know that isn't 316 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: the truth because you narrowed it down to a twelve earlier. 317 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 2: Now you're saying a fifteen. It's just a little red flag. 318 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it is. And let me give you an 319 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: even bigger red flag. With Stephen Cabaldi Dave, he went 320 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: from we were watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer sitting on 321 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: sofa together holding hands, to well, she may have taken 322 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: off on a solo fishing trip. Yes, who says that? 323 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: And I think that there was even at one point 324 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: in time he used the phrase, well she's she's on 325 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: a beach somewhere, somewhere. 326 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 3: Warm, someplace warm on the beach. 327 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: How broad do you have to be within the spectrum 328 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: when you begin to you know, these provid questions that 329 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: the investigators kind of digging into to try to find 330 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: out what happened to Beth in this period of time. 331 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: And why would this is the other question, what would 332 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: be your purpose for deviating from your narrative that you've 333 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: already created. When we have asked you this over and 334 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: over again, you talked about going through the house and 335 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: spraying with luminol and all these sorts of things. Yeah, 336 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: I mean, that's certainly something that we eventually do. But 337 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: can I tell you something else that's very curious about 338 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: Stephen Paldi his interesting searches that he's done on the internet. 339 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: Not only not only did he search for things that 340 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: we talked about, he also searched out things like reciprocating 341 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: saw and black light, which if you've never seen a 342 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: black light utilized at crime scene, it will cause biological 343 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: samples to kind of luminous in that environment. You can 344 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: use it with semen, you can use it to a 345 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: certain extent with blood. And it's kind of an interesting thing. 346 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: You know, why are you searching these things out? You 347 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: begin to couple that with this kind of deviation that 348 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,239 Speaker 1: he has from the story that he's providing early on, 349 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: and certainly it raises a red flag for the investigators. 350 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: And that's all the more reason that the investigators would 351 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: go out at this point in time. 352 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: Okay, now let me ask you him. You pointed this out, 353 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: and I just want to go back to it. Very quickly. 354 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: He said that they were holding hands on the couch 355 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: watching Buffy the Vampires Layer. But then in the same conversation, 356 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: my wife just told me about an affair she's been 357 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: having for three years. She's been having a three year 358 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: long affair. We've been married thirty years. She just admitted 359 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 2: to a three year long affair. But we're sitting on 360 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: the couch holding hands watching Buffy. That doesn't fit my 361 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 2: picture of a healthy, happy, thirty year marriage. 362 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: No it doesn't. And listen, this is a thing. You 363 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: can say anything that you want to say, and you're 364 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: talking to police, and the dead aren't there to defend themselves, 365 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: and of course at this point they don't know if 366 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: you know where Beth is, if she's still among the living, 367 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: or if she's passed on. But when you're in control 368 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: and you're kind of driving a boat at this point 369 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: in time, you can put any type of information that 370 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: you want to out there to mislead the police, you know, 371 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: And that's when you start to get into areas like 372 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: you're attempting to obstruct an investigation. They begin to add 373 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: these little charges to things as the narrative develops, moving 374 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: on down the line. Because if there's one thing that 375 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: will frustrate an investigator, it's that they have been given 376 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: bad information. It makes the entire team take two, three 377 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: fifty steps backwards and have to go back to that 378 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: original point. Now that's a good thing in one sense, 379 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: is that now you're beginning to understand that this individual 380 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: is being deceptive and that's part of thevestigation. But it can, 381 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: trust me, it can get very frustrating. Preeminent among everything 382 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: here is his wife's safety. Where is she? We've got 383 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: a woman that has gone missing. We want to be 384 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: able to find her intact. But of course in best 385 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: case that's certainly wasn't the story. So where do you go? 386 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: Where do you go with an investigation when the person 387 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: that is most intimately involved with the missing person is 388 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: giving you all kinds of deceptive answers and they're leading 389 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: you down these past that lead to nowhere. It's tough 390 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: thing to kind of measure as an investigator. But as 391 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: I stated earlier, you have to understand that this is 392 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: part of what investigators do, and it's almost a built 393 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: in expectation that you are going to be deceived in 394 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: some way. That's what always strikes me as funny, Dave, 395 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: when people say investigators are so jaded. Yeah, you're right. 396 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: When you've been lied to a lot, you tend to 397 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: be jaded. You suspect everybody, and I'm chief among sinners. 398 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: I'm guilty of it. 399 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: Well, in this particular case, we have the adult daughter. 400 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: She calls police because she hasn't been in touch with 401 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 2: her mom in two days. And there's an interesting side 402 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 2: part of this show. None of the family or friends 403 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 2: had talked to her in two days, and they pointed 404 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: out that at fifty five years old, Beth Capaldi was 405 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 2: a homebody. She had never actually stayed away from her 406 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 2: own home overnight by herself. Not a very common thing 407 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: among an adult that's in her mid fifties, but absolutely 408 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: truth here. So now you've got a fifty five year 409 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: old woman who is gone for a couple of days 410 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: and she's never ever done this in the history of 411 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: her world. She left behind her car. Okay, how did 412 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: she get to wherever she is? He her keys, her iPad, 413 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 2: cell phone. Plus you know what, Beth Capaldi has an 414 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: elderly mother in a nursing home, so they have their 415 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 2: work cut out for them to figure out what exactly happened. 416 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: But it does start with her husband, Stephen Capaldi, who 417 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 2: claims they're watching Buffy on the couch holding hands and 418 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: then wait a minute, I don't know where she went 419 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 2: and I don't even bother to look for. That's a big, 420 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 2: big red flag to me. So you come in. You're 421 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: the investigator, Joe. How do you begin to find out 422 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: what happened to Beth Capaldi? And was it explainable in 423 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: an innocent way or not? Is the house going to 424 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: reveal what exactly happened to her? Am I going to 425 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: find a forensic look at his phone or computers or 426 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: other things like that and dig through that and find 427 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: out what was going on? These are the questions I 428 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 2: have right now. You're the investigator, Joe. You're coming into 429 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 2: a house that you don't know as a crime scene 430 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: right now. 431 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: No, you have no idea, And so you're walking through 432 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: this dwelling where you know, for all you know, some 433 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: of the most horrible things imaginable could have occurred. But 434 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: yet you're walking into something that is set up to 435 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: deceive you. Let me kind of expand on that and 436 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: tell you what had occurred. You'd mentioned her cell phone, 437 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: her keys, or car were all there, okay, but what 438 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 1: was not there was her purse, her wallet and thirteen 439 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: thousand dollars gone gone. You consider that that bit of 440 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: information well as an investigator thinking, well, why would you 441 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: need that much cash? What are you going to do 442 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: with that volume of cash? Well, travel, You're going to 443 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 1: get away, You're going to go somewhere and disappear. And 444 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: sometimes people have certainly done that over the years. People 445 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: have just said it's just too much. I can't go on. 446 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to bury myself in the midst of time 447 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: and no one will remember me anymore. But fortunately the 448 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: police continue to press relative to the timeline, relative to 449 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: what had been said and done prior to and following. 450 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: And also when the investigators begin to get in to 451 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: the digital life of Stephen Capaldi, they found very disturbing things. 452 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: These searches that he had conducted to what would seem 453 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: at least to give them an idea of what he 454 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: had planned out. And here's the thing, you know how 455 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: I'd mentioned if you get into this kind of back 456 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: and forth with the police when they're trying to find 457 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: somebody that's missing, and suddenly they realize that you've led 458 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: them on a goose chase, a wild goose chase that's 459 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: going to wind up being charged, which he eventually was, 460 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: with obstruction of justice. And also you begin to think 461 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: about has he done anything at the scene that could 462 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: potentially deceive or was meant to deceive law enforcement, and 463 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: he had, and that's where he's eventually charged with tampering 464 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: of evidence. Because if you create a narrative by adjusting 465 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: the scene at all, like for instance, where you're going 466 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: to take this thirteen thousand dollars in her purse and 467 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: these sorts of things and take them away, take them 468 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: out of the scene, and it changes the context of 469 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: everything that can be construed as tampering as well, and 470 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: it leads the police to begin to dig deeper. And 471 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: when they do, after he had gone back and forth, 472 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: fails a polygraph examination, and that gives them enough information 473 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: in order to develop a warrant Dave, And when they did, 474 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: they found some pretty gruesome things. 475 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 2: Stephen Capaldi, as you pointed out, I had told many, 476 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 2: many lies from the very beginning with his daughter having 477 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 2: his inner in two days to the point where he 478 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: actually is taking a polygraph test, which he failed miserably. 479 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 2: As they were developing their information. As the investigation rolled on, 480 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 2: they found out that it was in fact Stephen Capaldi 481 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: that had been having an affair, not his wife. Stephen 482 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 2: Capaldi actually had all these searches done. As we mentioned 483 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: right at the top of the show, he had actually 484 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: searched just to give you an idea, how to get 485 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: away with murder. He searched this on his phone or computer. 486 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 2: How to delete Facebook messages, another one, can you avoid 487 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: police detection by turning off your phone? How to disappear 488 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: and Never be found? And the FBI Handbook of Crime 489 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: Scene Forensics. 490 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: I've got this book on my shelf day in my 491 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: office at the university, and it's something that I've referred 492 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: to over the years. It's there, and I was shocked 493 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: I saw that this was in the in his preferred 494 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: reading list. Not that there's anything wrong with being in 495 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: possession of the book, but when again, when you're trying 496 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: to understand what the mindset of somebody is that's attempting 497 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: to get away with something that's going to be a 498 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: big indicator, at least from a circumstantial standpoint that it's 499 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: a and you have to look at the approximation, you know, 500 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: timelines when did these things begin to bubble up in 501 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: your mind? And that goes to a premeditative state of 502 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: mind as well. You know, how long has perhaps he 503 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: been considering doing these sorts of things. And eventually, with Capaldi, 504 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: he rolls over on this and it admits to it, 505 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: I mean absolutely admits to it. He actually pleads guilty. 506 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: He went in and gave testimony in a grand jury hearing, 507 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: and I can only imagine that the DA was just 508 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: shocked eventually, but in the interim when it came down 509 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: to it, he had taken time to First off, I 510 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: think it was back on October tenth of twenty twenty two. 511 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: He suffocated her. He suffocated her while she was in 512 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: bed sleeping, And you've got two stories here. And with 513 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: the suffocation, it's kind of an interesting dynamic. You think 514 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: about suffocation versus asphyxia. Most of the time when people 515 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: say suffocation, you think of maybe placing a bag over 516 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: someone's head. And that's what's called a oxygen deprivation event, 517 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: where you're literally shutting out all supply of oxygen for 518 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: the individual and they die as a result of not 519 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: having access to breathable air. But with suffocationation someone's in bed, 520 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: what do you automatic? What's your default position there? Dave? 521 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: What do you think happened? 522 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 3: Going to use a pillow? 523 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: But I got a question for you, Joe, because I'm 524 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: thinking he using a pillow to suffocate someone that's on 525 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 2: a bed. 526 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 3: There's a lot of gift on a bed, yeah, there is. 527 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 2: How do you get the force necessary, the weight necessary 528 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 2: to actually cause someone to suffocate with a pillow and 529 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: a mattress in between. 530 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: They've done studies over the years with oxygen deprivation with 531 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: kind of the primal reaction that people have to this, 532 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: and even the weakest among us will fight back. If 533 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: you're laying on a surface like this, a soft surface 534 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: like a mattress, and you're having direct pressure applied to 535 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: the face, the individual will fight back. And I think 536 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: that that's why, and they were able to see evidence 537 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: of this, and certainly he admitted to this, is that 538 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: he transitioned now to a different form of oxygen deprivation. 539 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: He went from suffocation to strangulation at this point in time. 540 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: So you just think about this. You're over your wife Beth. 541 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: In this case, you apply, say, for instance, a pillow 542 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: to her face, and you realize that this isn't going anywhere. 543 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: She's in a deep sleep. Suddenly she has this awareness 544 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: that she's being deprived of oxygen. She begins to fight back. 545 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: You toss the pillow side and then you essentially wrap 546 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: your hands around her throat at that point in time 547 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: and squeeze life out of her. And that's these types 548 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: of events. It's a very intimate, intimate occurrence in this environment. 549 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 1: And after this deed is done, remember this is on 550 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: the tenth Dave, he admits that he removed her remains 551 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: from the master bedroom down into the basement and he 552 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,959 Speaker 1: left her down there for essentially two days. 553 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 2: In the paperwork has said he killed her in the 554 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 2: master bedroom. He suffocated and strangled her in their master bedroom. 555 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: Then it says in his statement to police he actually 556 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: took her to another bedroom first and then took her 557 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 2: down to the basement. What does that mean to you? 558 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: It goes to a disordered mindset. It's always fascinated me 559 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: relative to people that engage in homicide and they're trying 560 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: to understand what has occurred years ago when Bill Clinton 561 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: won the presidency, famously said, well, I'm like the old 562 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: dog that was sitting on the porch and was chasing 563 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: cars all the time. I finally caught one. They know 564 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: what to do. And so you begin to think about 565 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: this situation that you're in. What do you do at 566 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: that point in time, Well, you begin to migrate things around. 567 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: You're thinking about you're trying to work this out logically 568 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: in an illogical situation because you're overwhelmed. I mean, just 569 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: imagine just for a second. You've certainly never been in 570 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: a position where you're having to deal with the dead, 571 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: how much more so your wife, and now you've got 572 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get rid of her body. 573 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: He'd explore all kinds of things on the internet. We 574 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: talked about a reciprocating saw, which comes into play. But 575 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: addition to that, he had actually sought out quick drying concrete. 576 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: His mind is going to a variety of things, and 577 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: you see it kind of in a nutshell, initially with 578 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: the master bedroom, the secondary location, and then finally in 579 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: the basement. Waits two days, waits two days, and he's contemplating, right, 580 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: He's contemplating well, what's the best way to get my 581 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: wife out of the house and dispose of her so 582 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: that I can put as much a distance between myself 583 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: and her remains. And that's one of the things about 584 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: a perpetrator like this, they want to try to put 585 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: as much distance between themselves and evidence of what they 586 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: have done. Many times is through those actions that you 587 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: can find clues that lead back to the act itself 588 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: because they're handling evidence, they're manipulating the body, they're trying 589 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: to dispose of the remains. And as it turned out, 590 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, that basement turned into an absolute horror show, David. 591 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 2: So you've got a basement that is covered in blood 592 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 2: and tissue. But it hit me that he kills his 593 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 2: wife on October the tenth. On October the twelfth, he 594 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 2: then begins the process of dismembering her. And you mentioned 595 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: the reciprocating saw. So tell me how that works to 596 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: dismember a body, because most of us don't understand, rigormortiz 597 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 2: what kind of state the body would be and would 598 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: we have a lot of odor, would we have a 599 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: stiff body, what would we have two days after the fact. 600 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: At this point in time, Dave her remains. Let's just say, 601 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: for instance, you've got a forty eight hour window here, 602 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: and I'm being kind of generous because you never know 603 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: specifically about these times. But if you've got an individual 604 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: who was murdered on the tenth, now she's been in 605 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: a state of post mortem change. Now let's say top 606 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: end forty eight hours. If we're to believe the timeline, 607 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: the body will be going through changes that could be appreciable, 608 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: certainly by somebody in my field that's skilled at it. 609 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: After about thirty six hours, the body is coming out 610 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: of ryger. So then the body goes back into what's 611 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,439 Speaker 1: referred to as a flaccid state. That's one of the 612 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: ways that we actually measure post mortem interval because if 613 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: you've got a body that is where you've got post 614 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: mortem lividity, which is the settling of blood where it's 615 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: fixed if you press it, the skin color doesn't change 616 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: because the little capillary beds have exploded and the skin, 617 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, is kind of stained 618 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: beneath that surface. And then you've got a body. In 619 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: addition to that, the body would be flaccid coming out 620 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: of riger Morris. Then you know that you're out beyond 621 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: that thirty six hour marker at that point in time, 622 00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that we'll look for. 623 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,879 Speaker 1: Or of course you can do body temperature, but after 624 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: about twelve hours, that data for body temperature is completely worthless. 625 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: People put so much stock in what's referred to as 626 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: algor mortis, which is the body temperature, but after about 627 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: a twelve hour window, that data is pretty much worthless. 628 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: So in a case like this, you would you can 629 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: only imagine what he was faced with. And there's a 630 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: human side to this too, beyond just this technical forensics. 631 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: I was thinking contemplating this a bit and thinking about 632 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: this place that they lived in. You're talking about the 633 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: most intimate space of all that you share with your spouse, 634 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: the bedroom, and you migrate to another bedroom, and then 635 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: you remove them to the basement, maybe a place where 636 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,760 Speaker 1: you've done work together as a couple, Maybe a place 637 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: where you've hidden the Christmas presents from the kids. Maybe 638 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: a place where if you have a family room where 639 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: you watch sports together, maybe you have game night together, 640 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: and then suddenly it turns into a slaughterhouse. Just think 641 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,760 Speaker 1: about that from the perspective of how this individual's mind 642 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: would be working at this moment time. All those things 643 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: that you see are reminders of a life that has 644 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: been lived. And now you've got your precious wife, and 645 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: she is precious. She's precious in the sense that she's 646 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: been with you all of this time. You've got a 647 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: daughter that loves her mama. The daughter can't get in 648 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: touch with her. Oh and by the way, do what 649 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: you've got to do. And that what he famously said. 650 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 3: That's what drives me crazy. That just really does. 651 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's doing what he thinks he has to do. 652 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: Any Dave, he's literally taking his wife's body apart in 653 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: this place. Now he's faced with this herculean task trying 654 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: to dispose of her remains. Many people, I think, enter 655 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: into this sort of thing and they think, oh, yeah, yeah, 656 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: I could do it. Could you really you think you 657 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: could do it? Well, maybe you could, I don't know. 658 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: And then, given the emotion of it, you're emotionally bonded 659 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,280 Speaker 1: with this person and here you are taking them apart. 660 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: There's only so much rage and anger that you might 661 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: have that you might hold to somebody. At some point 662 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: in time, you would think that something would click and 663 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: you realize what you're in the middle of at this 664 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,959 Speaker 1: point in Tom and I think that he probably did. 665 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 2: I'm wondering, Joe, if you, as the forensic expert, when 666 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,760 Speaker 2: you find the body, can you tell if the person 667 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: was in a fit of anger as they cut this 668 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 2: person up, or if they had time to calm down. 669 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 2: And now we're surgically doing it just now is self preservation. 670 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 2: I'm trying to get rid of the evidence here so 671 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 2: I don't get caught. 672 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 1: And that's an excellent question. How much time and skill 673 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: was involved? Well, first off, what's your tool set? What 674 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: have you brought? What are you purposing in order to 675 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 1: facilitate this with Do you have a bunch of sharp 676 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: instruments or are you showing up with an axe? Does 677 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: it look like the hesitancy, because we can find those 678 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: sorts of things, say, for instance, when it comes to 679 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: bone in particular, we have what are referred to as 680 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: stop starts, where you get these scratches on the bones. 681 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: There are tool marks on the bones where you can 682 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: see and I'll give people a word picture so that 683 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: you understand if anybody in our audience has ever used 684 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: a carpenter saw where you begin to saw and it 685 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: jumps out of the groove and you have to start over. 686 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: Same thing happens with bone. When you're faced with having 687 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: to take a part of human remain, you're not just 688 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: simply dealing with bone. You're dealing with all manner soft tissue, 689 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: dealing with connective tissue. So you're going through layers of skin, fat, 690 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 1: and muscle in order just to get to the bone. 691 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: And that requires a bit of skill there, because yeah, 692 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: you're using a reciprocating saw in order to facilitate the dismemberment, 693 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,720 Speaker 1: but you have to get down to that very solid 694 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: area of bone in order for it to function at 695 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 1: its peak for what it's created for going through solid 696 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: surfaces like this. In order to do that, you'd have 697 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: to cut through the tissue with a sharp knife perhaps. 698 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: And there's the problem because if you're using a saw 699 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: such as this, remember the reciprocating saw, it kind of 700 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 1: goes up and down. It pumps up and down very rapidly. 701 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: Obviously it's got a limited space or a limited surface 702 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: area that it can go, so it's going to be 703 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 1: very frustrating to utilize this thing. You'll use a saw 704 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: like this to cut through drywall. You can cut two 705 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: by fours with it. It's easy to kind of manipulate. 706 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: But in a circumstance like this, where you're having to 707 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,879 Speaker 1: deal with not just bone, but you're having to deal 708 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,439 Speaker 1: with all of these other layers of tissue. The mess 709 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: that you're creating relative to not just tissue going everywhere, 710 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: but the deposition of blood that's still there, it's going everywhere. 711 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: It will actually inhibit the blade and the functioning of 712 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: this tool. But on top of that, you're staring down 713 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: at this body that in life you spent all these 714 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: years with as you're taking her apart. Stephen Capaldi admitted 715 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: to killing his wife. He also admitted to dismembering her. 716 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: But you think about, well, after you've dismembered her, what 717 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,760 Speaker 1: are you going to do with these dismembered remains of 718 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 1: your wife. You can't leave them at the house. It's 719 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: not like I guess you could. You could go dig 720 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: a hole in the backyard put them back there, but 721 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: people are going to notice. And again going back to 722 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: the idea of trying to get as much distance between 723 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: yourself and the body, what are you going to do? Well, 724 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 1: in Capaldi's case, he decided that he would deposit remains 725 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: in various locations. When he headed out from home, he 726 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: made a stop along the way in a town called Lansdale, 727 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: where he went to an apartment complex and took some 728 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: of her remains and placed them in an apartment complex dumpster, 729 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 1: and then continuing to kind of drive along, he went 730 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,280 Speaker 1: to the edge of the Delaware River, an area that's 731 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: referred to as Hog Island, which is right adjacent to 732 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: a little township in Delaware County. That's where he deposited 733 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: the rest. Some of the remains to this point in 734 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: time have not been recovered. But what they did do 735 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: once they found this deposition of remains, they were able 736 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: to conduct DNA testing and they did, in fact determine 737 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: that these are the mortal remains of Basketbality. I'm Joseph 738 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body bags