1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, 4 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: the myth, the uh, the guy beloved by professional juries 5 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: and the public alike, mister Max Williams, I'm. 6 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: Loved by non professional juries too. 7 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's no brown wooing in the background. Thank you, 8 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: and I'm able to be I like to be wooed, 9 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, yes, to woo and to woo uh. My 10 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: name is Ben Bullen. For tax purposes, on this show, 11 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: we are returning to our exploration of a little thing 12 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: called Eurovision. Now. Previously on Ridiculous History, the three of 13 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: us delved deep into the origin story of a thing 14 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: that has become an international phenomenon. But Noel, you know 15 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: you and I were teasing this the entirety of our 16 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: first chapter. People do vote on Eurovision. Even though it's 17 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: a unifying thing, it is at heart a competition, so 18 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: there has to be a winner and there can only 19 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: be one. 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: Oh highlander rules Ben, which is also intensely European. 21 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Yes, cartoonishly so yeah, that's good. Eurovision has a unique 22 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: system of voting that combines professional juries like the country 23 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: representatives or the big to dos of the music industry 24 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: with viewers at home at this point. So if we 25 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: are all watching Eurovision twenty twenty six, and the three 26 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: of us have a big group text and we're going Estonia, 27 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: no Hungary, you know what I mean, we can cast 28 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: our votes, we can make a voting block. It's so 29 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: weird because each country that participates in Eurovision has their 30 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: own in house jury of musical industry pros, and these 31 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: folks will award points to their favorite songs, but given 32 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: the conspiracy of nineteen fifty six, they are legally not 33 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: allowed to vote for their own country. So like, if 34 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: you're Simon Cowell or whatever, isn't he the. 35 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 3: Guy Timon Cowell is the mean British one? Yes? 36 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 37 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: And then we've got Randy Jackson, who is not related 38 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 3: to Michael Jackson. He is a slap of de base 39 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: guy who is sort of a mean American who tells 40 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 3: people that he isn't feeling a dog. 41 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: That's a note for me, for me. Yeah, So those guys, 42 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: hypothetically even being at the top of the music industry game, 43 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: if they were part of a jury and Eurovision, they 44 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: could not vote for their own country. So essentially what 45 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: happens is this jury of boffins will make a top 46 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: ten list, a short list, and they will award points. 47 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 1: The maximum amount of allowable points is twelve points. If 48 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: you really really love every way that I can or 49 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: if you really really love think about things, et cetera. 50 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: So at the same time this is happening, the civilians 51 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: are participating. The public is a big part of this, 52 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: fans from around Europe. And at this point, by the way, guys, 53 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: pretty much anyone who has the app, you can vote 54 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: for your favorite performance by phone, text or in of course, 55 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: the official Eurovision app, which I do want to point out, 56 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: is going to scrape a lot of data from your phone. 57 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: It's true. 58 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: Any of those type of apps are going to have 59 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 3: significant cookies. I do believe there are rules now where 60 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 3: you are required to be a little more transparent about 61 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 3: which cookies you accept or do not. They EU SU 62 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 3: and the E's always been ahead of the curve in 63 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: terms of protection of privacy. So yeah, not something that 64 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 3: we have as much luck with over here. But I 65 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 3: do believe, at least I've noticed that cookie acceptance is 66 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: a little bit more transparent, even here in the States. 67 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: Do you, guys, get that thing? It may depend on 68 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: the browser you use, but do you get that pop 69 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: up where it says, except all cookies reject all cookies 70 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: customize you. 71 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 3: Sometimes there's there's a third secret, third thing or not secret. 72 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 3: But I like to say that for whatever reason, where 73 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 3: it's only relevant ones or only key functional functional ones. 74 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 75 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: I mean I think we all mass reject all as 76 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: soon as possible, how as I do? 77 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course I have cookies at home. Why do 78 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: I want more on the internet? What's your favorite kind 79 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: of cookie? Bin? Uh? My favorite kind of cookie? No, 80 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: that's a great question. I don't need a lot of sweets. 81 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: I'm sweet enough. I think that. 82 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: Uh. 83 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: Thanks, guys, I would say, you know what I like 84 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: a good soft chocolate chip. What about you? 85 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 3: A good soft baked chocolate chip. Ben, I also enjoy 86 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 3: a chocolate chip. Let's include some nuts of some kind 87 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 3: perhaps in that chocolate chip, and a little bit of 88 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 3: sea salt. 89 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: Oh, there we go, all right? Maybe some brown butter max. Yeah, 90 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: what's what to do? 91 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 4: Condition condition? 92 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 3: Come on, man, preconditioned? Favorite cookie? 93 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, a hot soft chocolate chip cookie? 94 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: Is hot. Yeah, as you can tell, we are working 95 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: on our pitch for the next year of ficion so 96 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: in contests when we can participate, because perhaps podcasts are 97 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: a country of their own. Look, we know that the 98 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: voting thing is a messy bull of spaghetti. It's a 99 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: big batch of weird cookie dough. If you are a 100 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: winning overstuffed cow zone, it's an overstuffed cow zone. Just so, 101 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: if you are a winning entry, then you have to 102 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: be able to appeal to the professional juries and then 103 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: you have to get the public on your side. But 104 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: just like the electoral college or the electoral vote versus 105 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: the popular vote in US politics, you don't have to 106 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: win both of them to be the main act to 107 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: be the winner. And I gotta I gotta ask you, guys, 108 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: do you remember NOL. You and I have talked about 109 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: this in the past. Do you remember when we discovered 110 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: that there's maybe six people in Scandinavia who write most 111 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 1: pop music hits. 112 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: Oh of course, Yeah, I mean we're talking about the 113 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: hit factory sort of system over there. The most popular 114 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 3: person associated with that is Max Martin, and he's got 115 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 3: a whole team of crack Scandinavian songwriters song Smith's producers 116 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: that are basically dividing pop songs down into their component 117 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: parts in order to weaponize psychology against you. 118 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: Yes, you the listener. Yes could have said it better. 119 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: You nailed it. Folks, please check out stuff they don't 120 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: want you to know. If Nolan and I don't have 121 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: an episode about that yet, we will have one soon. 122 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: It'd be great. It'd be weird if we hadn't gotten 123 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: to that one yet. Okay, so look, we're we're the crew. 124 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: We're watching Eurovision the Big Night, the Grand Final, and 125 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: the points are being actively displayed. The scoreboard can flip 126 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: at the drop of a hat, so you're gonna see 127 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: Max name a name an obscure European country. 128 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: Sorry I'm late to the party, or at the drop 129 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 3: of a beat. 130 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:40,119 Speaker 1: Oh oh, that's foreshadowing. So okay, you might see Armenia 131 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: uh performing the in in the Big to Do, and 132 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: they may all of a sudden look like they're shoeing. 133 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: They're the winner. But then the next uh, the next 134 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: act comes on, Nol, what's another country that is not 135 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: Armenia but still in Europe? Oh boy, I don't know. 136 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 3: Oh man, that's like saying name one woman that was 137 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 3: a billy on the street thing. He walks up to people, Billy, 138 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: what's that guy? 139 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: You know? That really intense dude. 140 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 3: He walks out of people and says, name one woman, 141 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: and they can't do it. They can't do it. I 142 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 3: am so bad at geography, Ben, you're putting me on 143 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: the spot. But let's go with. 144 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: There we go. Okay, all right, that's still the thing. 145 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 4: It is still a thing. 146 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: Thank goodness to ask uh and I also, I also 147 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: loved that joke because Max, I can't remember if you 148 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: were there for this recording, but Nolan and I had 149 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: quite a time, uh talking about how how weird passport 150 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: control and customs can be because of all yeah, yeah, like, 151 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: oh is your birthday insert date here? And they're not 152 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: looking for what you say, they're looking for your responses. 153 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: So both of your faithful co hosts here definitely got 154 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: some deer in the headlights moments, right you remember that? 155 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, I mean it's how you It's not 156 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 3: what you say, it's how you say it. And it's 157 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: so it's much like we discussed on a recent episode 158 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 3: about IQ tests that test taking anxiety. It's a similar 159 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: emotional response, but all of a sudden, you're like under 160 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: the gun. Everything you think you know about anything, even yourself, 161 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 3: can just fly right out of your head. 162 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: Once upon a time, and this is a true story, 163 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: and I trust all of us not to make fun 164 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: of me about it too hard. But once upon a time, 165 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: when I was entering the United Kingdom, I freaked out 166 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: when they were asking me very basic questions. But in 167 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: as you said, Nol that quite direct way, I accidentally 168 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: called the passport control guy your highness. I didn't know 169 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: what to do. I didn't know what to do. It 170 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: was like, it was like, oh, so, what's your business here? 171 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: What's going on? I was like, ah, your highness, and 172 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: I ah. 173 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: Sorry, I might have dropped your lordship situation. 174 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: It's a weird one, right, And speaking of more weird stuff, uh, 175 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: we have to understand that Eurovision is not about the 176 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: best song, right, It is not about that. It is 177 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: about stage presence, it's about seeming original. It's a little 178 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: bit of rivalry and that brings us to again the 179 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: most broken of the main commandments of Eurovision being a 180 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: political case. We danced around it a little bit, but 181 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: we did a euroside steps, We did a shimmi or two. 182 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: We did. We did. We did an electric slide on 183 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: a couple of these because uh, this is of course 184 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: chapter two. Noel, you and I and Max were talking 185 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:02,239 Speaker 1: off air. Eurovision is way more than this simple reality 186 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: TV show. It is a platform of diplomacy. 187 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 3: The Eurovision Song Contest as it's known, can act as 188 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 3: an incredibly powerful platform for public discourse, cultural diplomacy, and 189 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 3: utilizing that soft power in order to put forth some 190 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 3: very important nation branding. We talked recently about Thai food, 191 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 3: for example, then the exporting of Thai food to the 192 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 3: United States and other parts of the world. That's soft diplomacy. 193 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: We talked about food being soft diplomacy and cuisine being 194 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 3: soft diplomacy. This is no different. This can also be 195 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: an important component in political alignment with other nations, as 196 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 3: well as fostering cultural dialogues among other nations in Europe 197 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 3: and neighboring countries. And since nineteen fifty six, this whole 198 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: deal has allowed nations to influence international perception of their 199 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 3: culture through music rather than through political talking points or policy. 200 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 3: My friend, I think we both agree that is a 201 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 3: powerful thing. Oh absolutely, my friend, Because it's really hard 202 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: to wrap your head around the politics of other countries 203 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 3: if you're not like one of the wonks, you know, 204 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 3: or the boffins, as you'd like to say. But music 205 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: we can all kind of get behind. 206 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, most people are going to feel the same way 207 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: about a F sharp or a flat you know what 208 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: I mean. It communicates fast words. And also to your 209 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: excellent point, there, Noel, why would someone read thousands of 210 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: pages about Latvia's post Soviet agricultural policies. Why wouldn't you 211 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: just tune in for a less than three minute song 212 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: called Latvia Makes Bread. 213 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 3: I'll tell you all. All I needed to know about 214 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: Latvia is that I could tap my toe to the 215 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 3: bread song. 216 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah, and we see when this works 217 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: in theory, we do see a great geopolitical glue. We 218 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: do see a great unifier. It also, however, acts as 219 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: a platform or venue for geopolitical tensions. So there are 220 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: going to be cases where two countries are beefing for 221 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: one reason or another and they just don't like each other, 222 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: and they're going to say, screw these guys, nobody vote 223 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: for them, right, and they'll get the same in return. 224 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: Eurovision during the Cold War is very interesting because it 225 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: was unifying Western Europe, but Eastern Europe, under the control 226 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: of the USSR, was excluded from the competition. So the 227 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: Soviet Bloc, that's what they call it, dude, they made 228 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: their own thing. They looked at Coca Cola and said, 229 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: will make pepsi at home. They created something called the 230 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: Intervision Song Contest. Not as Cool feels like a little 231 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: also ran. 232 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 3: No, it's it does for sure. You can't mess with 233 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 3: the classic formulas as evidenced by Coke two, coke, Oh psi. 234 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: We should do an episode on those. 235 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 4: Oh, how have we not? 236 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can combine those crystal pepsi and new coke. 237 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we'll write it down. Also, the Intervision 238 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: Song Contest from the Soviet block ran from a you 239 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: had a much shorter career. It ran from about nineteen 240 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: sixty five to nineteen eighty, and it was billed as 241 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: a socialist alternative to the corrupt capitalist practices of Eurovision. 242 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: And they said, look, we are going to do our 243 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: own show, right, We'll make a pepe to the coke 244 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: and we will not worry about you guys from Western Europe. 245 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: So then we saw for a few decades, we saw 246 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: Eurovision and Intervision competing sort of in the same room, 247 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: but not directly with one another. 248 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, but as we can see here from the outline, 249 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: Intervision only lasted from nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty, 250 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 3: so it would appear that the OG won out and 251 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: that there indeed was could only be one at least, 252 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 3: you know, ultimately. 253 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: Like you said, Highlander rules, right, So this is different. 254 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: This is a contrasting case to the Olympic Games, because 255 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: Intervision and Eurovision did not pick their number one winner 256 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: and then send those two folks to sing it out. 257 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: There were only a few instances, pretty rare, where artists 258 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: from the Soviet block appeared on Eurovision. That all changes 259 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, the Berlin Wall falls and shout 260 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: out to everybody else who has a little relic of that. 261 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: The USSR collapsed. And this means that many formerly Soviet 262 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: states in Eastern Europe, what do they do? No, they 263 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: don't hang with Intervision. They immediately joined the Eurovision Song 264 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: Contest in the nineteen nineties, and doing so is way 265 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: easier than joining something like NATO. Yeah man, Nato, Huh, 266 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: how's that thing going? Yeah? Oh yeah? Tap the mic 267 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: like a nineteen eighty stand up NATO, guys. It just 268 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, it just. 269 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 3: The soft diplomacy stuff is such an interesting microcosm of 270 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: like larger political systems and how propaganda can ultimately be 271 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: more effective than things like NATO and like the UN 272 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 3: and governing bodies, and like what we're seeing right now 273 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 3: in the United States. Not to be like too political 274 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 3: about it, but we're really just seeing so much actual 275 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: international law is a matter of just folks deciding to 276 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: play nice and follow the rules, you know, And how 277 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 3: much more influential some of this soft diplomacy stuff can be, 278 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 3: and how you know, this branding kind of these branding 279 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 3: plays can really make more of a lasting impact than 280 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 3: even you know, how you vote in the UN or 281 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: like resolutions or even sanctions. 282 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. You know. I think what we're 283 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: all saying here is that makes sense. Yeah, it does. 284 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: It's well put. What we're all saying here is, while 285 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: Eurovision is a lot of fun, it's hacking minds. It's 286 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: building relationships in a way that in institutions like the 287 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: United Nations or NATO simply cannot. This is much more 288 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: than a singing contest. It is not just international diplomacy 289 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: at its finest, it is also international diplomacy at its weirdest, 290 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: at its most ridiculous, and that means naturally, Eurovision is 291 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: no stranger to controversy. And Noel, you, Max and I 292 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: were talking about this a little bit off air. This 293 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: is part of why we made this a two part series. 294 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: Eurovision has, despite its noble intent and its grand ambition, 295 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: been embroiled in so much controversy. We could sum it 296 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: up in three rough categories. Maybe we step through those 297 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: political tensions between competing countries that hell or high water 298 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: will not vote for each other ever at all, not 299 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: even if the song is clearly the best song. And 300 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: the second controversy is going to be entries or songs 301 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: being disqualified due to political references in song lyrics. Just 302 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: for an example. 303 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 3: Well, you know, Ben, I don't mean interup. We're gonna 304 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 3: get the examples real quick, but we're no stranger to that. 305 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 3: Over here in the United States, we've certainly seen artists 306 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 3: banned from say Saturday Night Live for Life for rage 307 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: shout out to rage, for having an upside down American flag. 308 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: I believe that they were told not to do, and 309 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 3: I also believe they switched songs the last minute. Shout 310 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 3: out to Elvis Costello who did the song radio Radio, 311 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 3: which is a total indictment of the broadcast system and 312 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 3: the idea of like artists and performers being kind of 313 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: slaves to these corporate interests. And of course shout out 314 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: to Sinad O'Connor for tearing up a photograph of the 315 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 3: post on live television. 316 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: Fight the real enemy. 317 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 3: So you know, it's it's and this is not an 318 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: exclusively European phenomenon. This is something that you know, when 319 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 3: you're dealing with these live performances, politics can definitely make 320 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: things a little bit messy and make things a little 321 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 3: bit difficult for say the network in this case, for 322 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 3: the competition. 323 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, at our third category of controversy, here would be demonstrations, 324 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: boycott's protests against certain countries. People are saying, don't let 325 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: this country compete because of their politics and their policies. 326 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 3: When s talk about the right, probably the most extreme 327 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: version of that that's happening right now. 328 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, as we build up to that, let's mention 329 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: the ongoing conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. This these folks 330 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: get beefed up, so often in Eurovision. They both in 331 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: the late two thousands, but in two thousand and nine, 332 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: Get this, there were people in Azerbaijan, civilians, right, not military, 333 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: not professional judges or whatever, just regular people watching the 334 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: show and they vibed with Armenia's song and they voted 335 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: for it, and then later they were visited by law enforcement. 336 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: They got a heard you voted wrong. Imagine the police 337 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: knocking on your door because you voted wrong. In America's got. 338 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: Talent well, and that is not to put too fine 339 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 3: a point on it. The kind of stuff that it's 340 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 3: easy to take for granted, and that we've talked about 341 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 3: the slippery slope of some of the things going on 342 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 3: here again in this country, that one day some Facebook 343 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 3: post you liked, or some you know thing you've voted for, 344 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 3: you know poll you took could come back to haunt 345 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 3: you if they were to change, and may in certain 346 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 3: positions are made retroactively quote unquote illegal. 347 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, the retroactive illegality is a big concern of mine, 348 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: hopefully for everybody as well. I mean, we also know 349 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: there are some illegal. 350 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 3: Is also such a broad term, it might not even 351 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 3: be considered illegal. It's just at this point, the law 352 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 3: doesn't matter if you have a leader or a desk, 353 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 3: but that has so much power and has so much 354 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 3: influence over law enforcement, the law doesn't even matter. It's 355 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 3: just this person doesn't like you and doesn't like your opinion, 356 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 3: and they're going to come find you and make sure 357 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: that you're on a list. 358 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: And then we know where that can go exactly. And 359 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: we also know there are several elephants in the room 360 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: of Eurovision controversy. One of the biggest is obviously going 361 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: to be Russia and Ukraine. Now, originally pre twenty fourteen, 362 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: these nations peacefully participated in co competition, right of Eurovision, 363 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: We're all having fun. But then Russia invaded an annexed 364 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: Crimea in twenty fourteen, the war and don Bass popped off, 365 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: and in twenty sixteen Ukraine one Eurovision with a song 366 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: called nineteen forty four. The lyrics were talking about the 367 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: deportation of Tartars people in Crimea, and because of the 368 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: events in Crimea occurring right at the time, pretty much 369 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: everybody said, hey, this is not a political You guys 370 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Everybody knows what you're talking about. 371 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: This is a statement against the nation of Russia. However, 372 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: the boffins, the judges, most importantly the producers and showrunners 373 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: got to together and they said, look, you can compete 374 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: because this song is about history. And the Russian delegation said, no, 375 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: screw you guys. 376 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 3: Also whose history and which history and which version of history? 377 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, just so, I mean we know that the 378 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: country of Georgia, not the state. The country of Georgia 379 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: had gotten in trouble with Russia as well, because after 380 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: the Russo Georgian War, Georgia came out with a song 381 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: called we Don't want to put In, We don't want 382 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: to put In, Putin on the ritz. Yeah, And the 383 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: European Broadcasting Union objected to this and they said, look, 384 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: you guys are clearly doing, you know, a sneaky little 385 00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: pun and you are criticizing Vladimir Putin. Were not dumb, 386 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: you guys, We're still very plugged in and cool. We 387 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: get it, and you shouldn't do it. Yeah. 388 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 3: We're seeing some controversies like that, or we did see 389 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 3: some controversies like that, at least in terms of these 390 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 3: more low key kind of protests in the recent Winter Olympics, 391 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 3: specifically surrounding Palestine and Israel. And like I think there 392 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: was like a bobsletter that wore. Yeah, Max has got 393 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: the facts on this one were on his helmet some 394 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 3: sort of card with names of folks who were killed. 395 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: It was a Ukrainian bob sletter I believe, who had 396 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: like photos of people who had been killed, but in 397 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: the in like the Russian in Vagins. 398 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 3: So sorry, it wasn't wasn't a Palestine thing it was. 399 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: It was a Ukraine thing, so even more uh. 400 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 2: And he was he was not allowed to compete with 401 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: it on there and but he did it anyway. 402 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 4: Well, no, he wasn't allowed to compete. 403 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: He wore he did, oh got it and he wore 404 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: and like. 405 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: Practice and told him you have to tick that you 406 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 2: can't wear that you were something confirms the whole a 407 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: political stance. And I remember hearing the president of it 408 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: of the IOCA her statement, and to get a little 409 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: on my own soapbox here, I said, somehow y'all are 410 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 2: still better than FIFA, but only FIFA, only FIFA. 411 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: We're still holding it out for that FIFA Peace Prize, 412 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: which will be the first awarded to a podcast, and 413 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: let's make it happen that was Max with the facts. 414 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 2: That seeking in the phones and peacefullen knowledge. 415 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 4: It's just for you right now here with the facts. 416 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: Now we have to get to one of the biggest 417 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: controversies in all of Eurovision, and this is something that 418 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: is very sensitive to a lot of people. We're going 419 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: to be responsible about it. If you look at Eurovision 420 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: and you just hear the name, you would be reasonable 421 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: in assuming that Eurovision is a contest for European countries. 422 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: That is not always the case. There is a very 423 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: well known non European country regularly participating in Eurovision, and 424 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: that country is the Middle Eastern nation Israel. 425 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 3: Israel first competed in the contest in nineteen seventy three, 426 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: becoming the first country from outside of Europe or the 427 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 3: EU as it's known today, to enter. As participation in 428 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 3: the contest over the years has at times raised significant controversy, 429 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: as have you know, other actions at Israel have taken there. 430 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: They've always been a very dicey kind of political hot 431 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: button issue, especially well not especially, but certainly here in 432 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 3: the United States, in no small part because of our 433 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 3: super cozy relationship with them and some of the nasty 434 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 3: goings on that they you know, get into from time 435 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: to time. 436 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of this controversy will hinge on other 437 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: countries participating in Eurovision, and they'll raise concerns. They'll say, 438 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: what about the conflict in that region of the world, 439 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: the Israeli Palestinian conflicts, what about the wider Israeli Arab 440 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: conflict in that region? And so at various times in 441 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:34,239 Speaker 1: the past, other countries have threatened to boycott Eurovision or 442 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: they've called for the Nation of Israel to be removed 443 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: from participating. Despite all that, this country, which again is 444 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, not in Europe, has remained a 445 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: regular competitor since nineteen seventy three. The Nation of Israel 446 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: has not only one Eurovision four times, but has also 447 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: hosted it thrice for sure. 448 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 3: And if you can imagine, a lot of people have 449 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 3: a lot of thoughts and feelings and opinions about what's 450 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 3: going on with Israel right now in terms of their 451 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 3: treatment of folks in Palestine and in terms of their 452 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 3: actions against Iran that we here in the United States 453 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 3: seem to have gotten, you know, more or less fully 454 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 3: on board with, and that has trickled and filtered into 455 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 3: how they are being looked at and treated in the 456 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 3: Eurovision competition again to that soft diplomacy or that kind 457 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 3: of political microcosm of it all. It really is an 458 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 3: interesting signifier, you know, of how the greater European world 459 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 3: is looking at these conflicts. 460 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,239 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one hundred percent. In twenty twenty five, just 461 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: last year, as we record, the Nation of Israel took 462 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: the top spot in the public vote, but they got 463 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: a score from the jury, so their popular vote was great. 464 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: Their electoral college vote, if we could call it that, 465 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: not so much. As a result, the European Broadcasting Union 466 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: introduced rules for stricter auditing lower public vote counts, and 467 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: then they put tighter restrictions on what they portrayed as 468 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: state sponsored promotion. So what the EBU was essentially saying 469 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: last year is that they were polite, they were diplomatic 470 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: in circumspect about it, but they clearly thought that on 471 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: some state sponsored level, the Nation of Israel was rigging 472 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: the vote for sure, which is like with a lot 473 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: of propaganda, not like forcing people to vote, but encouraging 474 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: them to only vote for their country propaganda. 475 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 3: And you gotta wonder too, where we talking like hackery 476 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 3: are we talking about? I mean, I do seem to recall. 477 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: I was going to mention some dear friends of mine 478 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 3: in Berlin who are kind of the ones that really 479 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 3: hipped me to how massive the whole Eurovision thing is 480 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 3: over there. Like they have parties and it's just like 481 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 3: it's like a seasonal you know, like literally like a 482 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 3: social event of the season. They seem to think, and 483 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: these are folks who are in tech that there may 484 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 3: well have been some you know, shenanigans that play in 485 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 3: terms of rigging the vote, for ringing the vote for Israel, 486 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 3: because of course these things all involve using apps, you know, 487 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 3: using perhaps phone numbers that you can call, and there 488 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: are ways to spoof these kinds of things. 489 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a standing concern for a lot of 490 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: Eurovision fans in Western Europe to be honest and across 491 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: the world, because look, Eurovision may be for primarily European 492 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: countries to participate, but the world is watching. People love 493 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: watching Eurovision, and everybody wants the competition to at least 494 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: feel fair. We know that controversies will surely crop up 495 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: in the future because Eurovision will continue. It is so 496 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: amazing to watch. It has got to be a wild 497 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: ride to participate in it, and it's also a key 498 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: piece of diplomacy. At this point, I think it's fair 499 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: to say that on balance Eurovision is ridiculous, but it 500 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: is also a tremendously positive thing for the world overall. 501 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: Is that safe to say? 502 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 3: I think it is too, Ben, and I just want 503 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 3: to walk back what I said just briefly. I don't 504 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: know that we have evidence of hacking in terms of 505 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 3: it is more, like you said, Ben, a concerted effort 506 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 3: to do sort of like vote manipulations or you know, 507 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 3: kind of coercive voting. But there was an instance back 508 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen where it is Raeli webcast of the 509 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 3: first Eurovision semifinal was hacked to show faked explosions in 510 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 3: Tel Aviv. The Israeli national broadcaster COHN blamed Hamas for 511 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 3: the interruption, though the Palestinian group didn't comment. The TV 512 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 3: broadcast at large was not affected, but viewers tuning into 513 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 3: the con webcast all the warning risk of missile attack, 514 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 3: please take shelter under a fake logo of the Israeli 515 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: army and the sound of rocket warning sirens. 516 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 1: Turty stuff. Why can't we just have a one nice thing? 517 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: Why can't we just see why can't we just see 518 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: silly songs being sung by people? Man this so it 519 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: goes deep, learn more about the concept of soft diplomacy. 520 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: We talked off Mike and Max, Noel and I couldn't 521 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 1: leave you without a one last you know, digit Steve, 522 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: We we have to share some of our favorite weirdest 523 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: Eurovision songs ever, because again this thing started in nineteen 524 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: fifty six, aside from COVID, it kept going all the 525 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: way up to the modern day. I got to tell you, Noel, 526 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: two of my favorite Eurovision songs ever are every Way 527 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: that I Can by Sir toab Erener and Think About 528 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: Things by Daddie Freire. That is my guy, Doddy Fryar. 529 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 3: Got to see him perform here in Atlanta at the 530 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 3: Variety Playhouse. He had a giant inflatable of his head 531 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 3: on stage, because of course he did, of course he did. 532 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 3: And he's you know, his videos are just as delightful 533 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 3: that one you're talking about. 534 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 4: Ben. 535 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 3: I think they're all wearing like weird sweaters in the video, 536 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 3: and then he's got some that they're just like weird 537 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 3: little after effects clones of himself and just really delightful stuff. 538 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 3: Real tall lanky dude, very into electronic music, kind of techno, 539 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 3: but it's sort of comedy music, but it's also just good. 540 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 3: Like I would have a lot of heart to him, 541 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 3: really a lot of heart, and he just seems like 542 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,240 Speaker 3: a lovely guy. And he actually just moves to Berlin, 543 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 3: which is my favorite city in the EU, and makes 544 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 3: a whole lot of sense because that is sort of 545 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 3: the heart, the beating, the four on the floor beating 546 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 3: heart of the electronic music world. 547 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: Berlin is your favorite city out of that whole pseudo continent. 548 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just have really good friends there, and I 549 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 3: just love the history of the music scene, and you know, 550 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff that I'm into, and I 551 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 3: just dig the vibe there. 552 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: It's cool. Nice. We also want to shout out the 553 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: weirdest Eurovision performances, things like Finland's monster rock band Lordie. 554 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 1: So if you are a fellow theatric rock nerd, you 555 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: might recall bands like Guar, Lordie, l O R d I. 556 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: They have a song called hard Rock Hallelujah. Check it out. 557 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: It's exactly what you're thinking about, it sure is. 558 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 3: And I also want to pull a couple of fun 559 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 3: from an article the Guardian put out called Vampires, Naked 560 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 3: Apes and free Booze the twenty wildest Eurovision performances ever, 561 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 3: because you know, this absurd aspect of Eurovision is almost 562 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 3: as important as like say, the you know, having the 563 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 3: best pop song or being the most polished act. Vampires 564 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 3: are alive Switzerland two thousand and seven. Vampires are alive 565 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 3: in hell Sinky, they say, beginning this surreal Swiss pop entry, 566 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 3: which occasionally veered into Pirates of Penzance territory. It was 567 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 3: especially odd because, despite the subject matter, neither DJ Bobo 568 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 3: nor his crew resembled vampires. As Eurovision rules stipulate that 569 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 3: you can't have more than six performers on stage, whoa 570 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 3: that still holds a row of mannequins were added at 571 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 3: the back to make the stage look busier. The result 572 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 3: a band of not vampires lost in the pants department 573 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 3: of a Marks and Spencer. That must be a British 574 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 3: reference that I do not get, and I am reading 575 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 3: from this article directly. One more that I thought it 576 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 3: was fun was Helium to the Rescue. If you're unsure 577 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 3: whether you're going to hit the high note at Eurovision, 578 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 3: you can always take a leaf out of Sebastian Telier's book. 579 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 3: By the way, adore Sebastian Tellier. This guy's a serious 580 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 3: electronic artist from France who does really gorgeous kind of 581 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 3: lounge type music. But he arrived on stage driven in 582 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 3: a golf buggy and inhaled a helium balloon mid performance, 583 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 3: thereby raising his voice a couple octaves. Tellier ended up 584 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 3: coming in nineteenth in that year's final. 585 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: And let us not forget Dustin the Turkey representing Ireland 586 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. We're gonna play one real quick 587 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: clip and it counts as fair you so again, Turkey's 588 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: Ireland Dustin puppets. Now do you see it? Do you 589 00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: see the puppet? I sure do, swear it? 590 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing, All right, we'll stop it. 591 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm a little triggered. 592 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 3: Is a little bit dark, Crystal Skexies coded a little bit. 593 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: But I'm here for it. 594 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 2: Ben, thanks for sharing to jump in here, because this 595 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 2: seems very relevant. I pulled this up before we even started. 596 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 2: But most Eurovision wins in the history of the competition, 597 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 2: it is. 598 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 4: A tie between Sweden and Ireland. 599 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: The two countries that famously have. 600 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 4: Fun seven times each. 601 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 2: I Sweden I could have guessed that that would have 602 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 2: been one of my guesses. 603 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 4: Ireland, Ireland. 604 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: It's something in the eyes, you know. So we also 605 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 1: know that we also knew that there were entries into 606 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: Eurovision that we're bragging about agricultural goods. If you go 607 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: to twenty twelve, you'll see Russia's submission, which is Borronolskie 608 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: Babushki Party for everybody. 609 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 3: Bushki means everybody. I thought of Babushka. It was like 610 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 3: a like a little old lady. 611 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: Well it was, and they did have Russian Granny's baking 612 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: bread on stay thank that was part of their musical act. 613 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 3: Love It also shout out to Kate Bush, my favorite 614 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 3: artist of all time, second only maybe to David Bowie 615 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 3: for her song Babushka. 616 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: It's shout out to those mad lads from Moldova who 617 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 1: got on unicycles. Of course, shout out to Estonia's chaotic 618 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: punk act Winnie Push. That's true, that's the real day. 619 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 4: I believe it. 620 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: I believe it been so guys. This is all building 621 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: toward one of the biggest questions that we and our 622 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians have had over the past to episodes 623 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: of this series. When are we going to Eurovision? Will 624 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: accounting pay for it? 625 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 2: Let's go this weekend? 626 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: We actually, we actually cannot go this weekend. 627 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 3: Stuff going on. We're gonna be on the road, y'all 628 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 3: doing ridiculous history from the Bahamas. Gosh, must be nice, 629 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 3: is what y'all are probably saying. 630 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: It is work. 631 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 3: We are stoked, and we're very grateful to Baja mar 632 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 3: the Resort for putting us up for a couple of 633 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 3: days and letting us record from their podcast studio, which 634 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 3: they apparently have. 635 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, we will update when we are recording in 636 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: Baja Mark. Wish us the best, folks. We can't wait 637 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: to hear from you your favorite Eurovision songs. Give it 638 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: to us, your least favorite, give it to us the 639 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: ones that still thoroughly confuse you. Because Max Noll and 640 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: I each have our own collected set of just real 641 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,760 Speaker 1: weird stuff from Eurovision. Big big thanks to our super 642 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, Big thanks to his biological brother 643 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, who composed this track. And you know what, 644 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: Nol I think Alex would be great at Eurovision. 645 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 3: The man's got stage presence, the man's got riz let's 646 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 3: put him forth as as the US, the first ever 647 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 3: US entry into Eurovision, though I'm pretty sure they wouldn't 648 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,240 Speaker 3: have us at this point. 649 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's all in the swagger. Okay, 650 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: So it's if it's Alex Max, you myself. We'd have 651 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: to add Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister. Can we put 652 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: him in the back maybe with like a what's the 653 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: least intrusive musical instrument? The kazoo? No, that's too far. 654 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: We'll give him a thereman. Can he drive a Theramy 655 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: Herman's pretty intrusive? Max goes high? Can we give him 656 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: like a triangle? 657 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 4: You can get truth of what the triangle ben? All right, 658 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 4: it's not all right to stay on the air, but 659 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 4: I can tell you later. 660 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: Okay, Well tuned in for the after show, folks, which 661 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: I guess means Texas or hit us up on ridiculous 662 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: historians over on Facebook. Big thanks to Christopher hasiotis here 663 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,280 Speaker 1: in spirit. Big thanks to use Jeffcoat, who recently returned 664 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: to South Africa. By the way, I think she's okay 665 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: with us saying that. No, I don't think either of 666 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: us were able to make it to her yoga session 667 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: when she was back in town. 668 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 3: No, sadly, but that's because everybody Dylan who does live 669 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 3: music for it and also produces our show stuff, they 670 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 3: don't want you to know. He told me it's sold out, 671 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 3: so I'm looking forward to trying out the next one. 672 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: Big thanks as well to aj Bahama's Jacob's The Puzzler, 673 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: and big thanks to Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance and man Ben. 674 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: I got to thank you twice over for this. 675 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 3: One because you were the research associate on this episode, 676 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 3: this pair of episodes as well as my You know, 677 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 3: we could maybe be a Eurovision duo. We just have 678 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 3: to renounce our citizenship. 679 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,959 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, the price dropped for that, that's what I heard. 680 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: I think we can afford it. We'll go in Apsi's 681 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, Poets. 682 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 683 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.