1 00:00:15,516 --> 00:00:27,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's an exciting time here at the Happiness Lab 2 00:00:27,956 --> 00:00:31,196 Speaker 1: because the Happiness Lab is having a birthday. Our podcast 3 00:00:31,196 --> 00:00:33,876 Speaker 1: has just turned five years old, and to celebrate, I 4 00:00:33,876 --> 00:00:36,436 Speaker 1: sent my producer Ryan Dilly deep into the archive to 5 00:00:36,476 --> 00:00:39,356 Speaker 1: grab out the five episodes that I've found the most 6 00:00:39,396 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: memorable from all the hundreds that we've made together. So Ryan, 7 00:00:42,636 --> 00:00:43,756 Speaker 1: which episode is up next? 8 00:00:44,116 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 2: So this shows from season two and it's called Working 9 00:00:46,636 --> 00:00:48,636 Speaker 2: Our Way to Happiness. This is one where of a 10 00:00:48,676 --> 00:00:52,316 Speaker 2: slightly humiliating camera appearance. But that's not why you chose it, right. 11 00:00:52,276 --> 00:00:53,956 Speaker 3: Now, That's totally why I chose it. 12 00:00:54,436 --> 00:00:56,916 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your scream in that episode. 13 00:00:56,996 --> 00:00:59,196 Speaker 2: A lot of this show is built around, as listen, 14 00:00:59,276 --> 00:01:01,036 Speaker 2: we'll find out, a lot of this show is built 15 00:01:01,036 --> 00:01:03,916 Speaker 2: around me seeing a rat that'd run into your house. 16 00:01:03,716 --> 00:01:06,116 Speaker 1: Which is the part of the wonderful cameo because we 17 00:01:06,196 --> 00:01:09,396 Speaker 1: get to hear Elisa Vanakmitt of the screen that you 18 00:01:09,396 --> 00:01:11,276 Speaker 1: gave when you saw the rat. But the episode's not 19 00:01:11,316 --> 00:01:14,276 Speaker 1: about Ryan or screaming. It's really about kind of the 20 00:01:14,436 --> 00:01:16,556 Speaker 1: job of someone who has to deal with folks who 21 00:01:16,556 --> 00:01:20,316 Speaker 1: see rats all the time. We interviewed Yale's pest management 22 00:01:20,436 --> 00:01:22,916 Speaker 1: person Marty, and he was the perfect guest for this 23 00:01:23,036 --> 00:01:26,076 Speaker 1: episode because it was an entire episode about what we 24 00:01:26,076 --> 00:01:28,636 Speaker 1: can do to be happier at work and the misconceptions 25 00:01:28,676 --> 00:01:31,196 Speaker 1: we have about happiness at work, like the idea that 26 00:01:31,236 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 1: being a pest control person might not be the best 27 00:01:33,716 --> 00:01:36,156 Speaker 1: job when it turns out Marty really adores what he 28 00:01:36,196 --> 00:01:36,796 Speaker 1: does for work. 29 00:01:36,916 --> 00:01:39,636 Speaker 2: And this episode also includes a research backed idea that 30 00:01:39,676 --> 00:01:42,036 Speaker 2: gets more pushback than any other thing we mentioned about 31 00:01:42,076 --> 00:01:44,796 Speaker 2: people get so angry, and that is the amount of 32 00:01:44,796 --> 00:01:46,836 Speaker 2: money that you make doesn't predict how. 33 00:01:46,716 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 4: Happy you will be. 34 00:01:48,116 --> 00:01:50,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something that the science has shown us 35 00:01:50,116 --> 00:01:52,676 Speaker 1: for a while with some nuance. Right, if you're not 36 00:01:52,796 --> 00:01:55,076 Speaker 1: making enough money to put food on the table or 37 00:01:55,116 --> 00:01:57,236 Speaker 1: put a roof over you had, definitely more money will 38 00:01:57,276 --> 00:02:00,436 Speaker 1: make you happier at work and beyond. But for folks 39 00:02:00,476 --> 00:02:02,716 Speaker 1: making a reasonable wage, money doesn't seem to be the 40 00:02:02,756 --> 00:02:05,356 Speaker 1: path to happiness that we think at work. It seems 41 00:02:05,356 --> 00:02:07,636 Speaker 1: to be other things. And that's really what Marty was 42 00:02:07,676 --> 00:02:09,716 Speaker 1: so great at teaching us. So this is one of 43 00:02:09,756 --> 00:02:12,756 Speaker 1: the reasons that I've loved this episode. It features good 44 00:02:12,756 --> 00:02:16,556 Speaker 1: screams from my loved producer Ryan and some really important 45 00:02:16,596 --> 00:02:18,956 Speaker 1: science about what makes us happy at work. I hope 46 00:02:18,956 --> 00:02:25,796 Speaker 1: you'll love this episode two, Working Your Way to Happiness. No, no, no, 47 00:02:26,036 --> 00:02:28,636 Speaker 1: it was much more like terrified than that. 48 00:02:29,036 --> 00:02:33,596 Speaker 3: Ah. 49 00:02:33,636 --> 00:02:35,996 Speaker 1: I'm going through my sound effects library with my friend 50 00:02:36,036 --> 00:02:38,956 Speaker 1: and producer Ryan Dilly. I'm trying to find a very 51 00:02:38,996 --> 00:02:44,516 Speaker 1: specific scream, one that's forever etched into my memory. Ah No, 52 00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:47,596 Speaker 1: that's like way more of a manly, brave scream. I 53 00:02:47,596 --> 00:02:50,676 Speaker 1: think we need it more high pitched and frantic and fearful. 54 00:02:50,836 --> 00:02:53,676 Speaker 1: We're trying to reenact a rather horrifying moment that Ryan 55 00:02:53,676 --> 00:02:56,636 Speaker 1: and I experienced a few months back. We were working 56 00:02:56,716 --> 00:02:59,596 Speaker 1: on our podcast scripts and Ryan needed a cup of coffee, 57 00:02:59,916 --> 00:03:02,556 Speaker 1: so he headed into the kitchen, and that was when 58 00:03:02,556 --> 00:03:09,916 Speaker 1: I heard it. I think that that's that's pretty close. 59 00:03:09,956 --> 00:03:13,356 Speaker 1: I think that was it. Ryan emitted the longest, loudest, 60 00:03:13,356 --> 00:03:17,756 Speaker 1: and most terror filled shriek I've ever heard. Apparently a huge, 61 00:03:17,836 --> 00:03:21,436 Speaker 1: terrifying rat had run through the kitchen, a rodent that was, 62 00:03:21,716 --> 00:03:24,476 Speaker 1: at least, according to Ryan's retelling, about the size of 63 00:03:24,516 --> 00:03:28,036 Speaker 1: a large Great Dane or a small horse. I assumed 64 00:03:28,036 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 1: he was exaggerating and that it was probably just a 65 00:03:30,236 --> 00:03:33,236 Speaker 1: harmless mouse, the kind we get on college campuses from 66 00:03:33,276 --> 00:03:37,396 Speaker 1: time to time, especially when there's construction outside. A tiny 67 00:03:37,436 --> 00:03:40,756 Speaker 1: mouse that was probably now feeling so terrorized by Ryan's 68 00:03:40,796 --> 00:03:43,076 Speaker 1: scream that it had likely high tailed it out of 69 00:03:43,076 --> 00:03:46,116 Speaker 1: the house, never to be heard from again. But just 70 00:03:46,196 --> 00:03:48,796 Speaker 1: as I was explaining that we had absolutely nothing to 71 00:03:48,836 --> 00:03:54,476 Speaker 1: worry about, the creature that I could now clearly see 72 00:03:54,516 --> 00:03:58,076 Speaker 1: was definitely not a tiny mouse, was back. It raced 73 00:03:58,116 --> 00:04:01,516 Speaker 1: from the kitchen into the study around our feet, and 74 00:04:01,556 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 1: then slithered into a heating duct on the wall. But 75 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 1: I wasn't worried, not because the rat wasn't huge or terrifying. 76 00:04:08,436 --> 00:04:11,396 Speaker 1: It was definitely I just knew it wasn't going to 77 00:04:11,396 --> 00:04:14,356 Speaker 1: be a problem for long because at Yale, when these 78 00:04:14,396 --> 00:04:17,116 Speaker 1: things happen and you need someone to resolve the issue quickly, 79 00:04:17,556 --> 00:04:18,356 Speaker 1: you just call. 80 00:04:18,556 --> 00:04:21,036 Speaker 4: Marty gilorin pest control operator. 81 00:04:21,596 --> 00:04:24,916 Speaker 1: Marty is like the terminator for vermin. Within minutes, he 82 00:04:24,956 --> 00:04:27,556 Speaker 1: was at my house, armed with baits and traps galore. 83 00:04:28,036 --> 00:04:30,196 Speaker 4: I like to get there as soon as I can 84 00:04:30,276 --> 00:04:32,236 Speaker 4: to help people. Yeah, I don't like to leave, you know, 85 00:04:32,396 --> 00:04:34,556 Speaker 4: calls waiting too long. And that was kind of an 86 00:04:34,556 --> 00:04:37,636 Speaker 4: emergency call because it was a rat in a living space. 87 00:04:38,076 --> 00:04:41,236 Speaker 1: While Ryan continued to stand bravely on the sofa, Marty 88 00:04:41,276 --> 00:04:43,636 Speaker 1: was sprawled on the floor. He checked for the rat 89 00:04:43,636 --> 00:04:46,076 Speaker 1: where we last saw it, face pressed up against the 90 00:04:46,076 --> 00:04:48,876 Speaker 1: air duct. Marty then set his traps like a general 91 00:04:48,876 --> 00:04:52,316 Speaker 1: deploying his armies. He strategized about all aspects of the 92 00:04:52,396 --> 00:04:55,836 Speaker 1: rats moves, like what if the rat retreated here or 93 00:04:55,876 --> 00:04:58,956 Speaker 1: made a break for it over there. Within minutes, all 94 00:04:58,956 --> 00:05:01,996 Speaker 1: the traps were down, and almost as soon as Marty left, 95 00:05:02,156 --> 00:05:02,916 Speaker 1: we heard. 96 00:05:04,796 --> 00:05:07,596 Speaker 4: I got lucky on that one. Sometimes it takes a 97 00:05:07,636 --> 00:05:08,156 Speaker 4: lot longer. 98 00:05:09,116 --> 00:05:12,916 Speaker 1: A vermin afficionado, one of the most skilled professionals I've 99 00:05:12,916 --> 00:05:16,236 Speaker 1: ever met, But few people want a job like Marty's. 100 00:05:16,636 --> 00:05:19,596 Speaker 1: In fact, pest control is usually included in lists of 101 00:05:19,596 --> 00:05:24,156 Speaker 1: the worst possible jobs in America. Some exterminators face low wages, 102 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,236 Speaker 1: deal with dangerous chemicals, and spend their working hours in 103 00:05:27,276 --> 00:05:30,716 Speaker 1: the company of scary critters that can bite, scratch, and sting. 104 00:05:31,116 --> 00:05:33,316 Speaker 4: I usually get stung about once a year. Kind of 105 00:05:33,436 --> 00:05:35,076 Speaker 4: just comes with the territory. 106 00:05:35,236 --> 00:05:37,716 Speaker 1: But Marty, it turns out, is the exact kind of 107 00:05:37,756 --> 00:05:39,916 Speaker 1: person we should emulate if we want to find the 108 00:05:39,916 --> 00:05:44,516 Speaker 1: perfect job, or even just to be happier at work generally, because, 109 00:05:44,516 --> 00:05:47,356 Speaker 1: as you'll hear in this episode, science suggests that our 110 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:50,396 Speaker 1: intuitions about good jobs and bad jobs are all wrong. 111 00:05:51,236 --> 00:05:53,876 Speaker 1: We think that pay and perks and plush offices are 112 00:05:53,876 --> 00:05:57,236 Speaker 1: what makes us happy in our careers. But as we'll see, 113 00:05:57,396 --> 00:06:04,996 Speaker 1: happiness and human motivation work much differently than our lying minds. Realize. 114 00:06:05,036 --> 00:06:07,036 Speaker 1: Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to 115 00:06:07,036 --> 00:06:09,676 Speaker 1: be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What 116 00:06:09,756 --> 00:06:12,196 Speaker 1: if our minds are lying to us, leading us away 117 00:06:12,396 --> 00:06:15,276 Speaker 1: from what will really make us happy. The good news 118 00:06:15,356 --> 00:06:17,756 Speaker 1: is that understanding the science of the mind can point 119 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:20,716 Speaker 1: us all back in the right direction. You're listening to 120 00:06:20,796 --> 00:06:29,276 Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab. But doctor Laurie Santos, what did you 121 00:06:29,276 --> 00:06:31,116 Speaker 1: want to be when you grew up? I'm going to 122 00:06:31,196 --> 00:06:34,236 Speaker 1: venture a guest that rat exterminator was pretty far down 123 00:06:34,236 --> 00:06:37,516 Speaker 1: the list. It was for Marty two. He grew up 124 00:06:37,516 --> 00:06:39,196 Speaker 1: with the standard career aspirations. 125 00:06:39,636 --> 00:06:42,236 Speaker 4: I mean, like every kid, I guess a fireman or 126 00:06:42,276 --> 00:06:44,556 Speaker 4: a cop or an when you're a kid. 127 00:06:44,836 --> 00:06:47,556 Speaker 1: But Marty never joined the police department or signed on 128 00:06:47,596 --> 00:06:51,276 Speaker 1: at the fire station. After graduating, he drifted into a 129 00:06:51,316 --> 00:06:52,716 Speaker 1: number of different jobs. 130 00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 4: Just like restaurant work and security guard and filling vending machines. 131 00:06:57,676 --> 00:06:58,316 Speaker 4: Things like that. 132 00:06:58,716 --> 00:07:01,596 Speaker 1: They all paid okay, but Marty wasn't exactly filled with 133 00:07:01,716 --> 00:07:04,356 Speaker 1: joy when he clocked in every Monday morning, and he 134 00:07:04,436 --> 00:07:08,356 Speaker 1: wasn't alone. According to a recent Gallup pole from twenty eighteen, 135 00:07:09,156 --> 00:07:12,156 Speaker 1: only about a third of American workers report feeling really 136 00:07:12,196 --> 00:07:16,196 Speaker 1: engaged with their jobs. Over fifty percent admit feeling actively 137 00:07:16,236 --> 00:07:19,556 Speaker 1: not engaged, they merely put up with boring work, and 138 00:07:19,676 --> 00:07:22,596 Speaker 1: nearly twenty percent report hating what they do for a living. 139 00:07:22,796 --> 00:07:25,516 Speaker 4: I've had jobs where I've had that problem before. I 140 00:07:25,596 --> 00:07:27,196 Speaker 4: have to go to work. This is not good. It's 141 00:07:27,196 --> 00:07:27,956 Speaker 4: Monday morning. 142 00:07:28,436 --> 00:07:31,316 Speaker 1: It's probably not all that surprising, But hating your job 143 00:07:31,476 --> 00:07:34,876 Speaker 1: isn't that great for your happiness, Which raises an important question. 144 00:07:35,476 --> 00:07:38,676 Speaker 1: What actually makes for a happier job? What could make 145 00:07:38,716 --> 00:07:41,676 Speaker 1: work life better for the nearly one hundred million Americans 146 00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:45,156 Speaker 1: who feel disengaged on the job. Many of us have 147 00:07:45,196 --> 00:07:48,836 Speaker 1: a pretty strong intuition here, we'd be happier if only 148 00:07:48,876 --> 00:07:51,756 Speaker 1: we had a bigger salary. Take one LinkedIn survey from 149 00:07:51,796 --> 00:07:56,116 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. It found that financial compensation was the top 150 00:07:56,236 --> 00:07:59,116 Speaker 1: value that most college students look for when considering a 151 00:07:59,116 --> 00:08:03,636 Speaker 1: new job opportunity, compensation was chosen more often than work 152 00:08:03,676 --> 00:08:07,756 Speaker 1: life balance, having good colleagues, or even career development. And 153 00:08:07,796 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 1: our intuition that a bigger pay means a happier career 154 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:14,516 Speaker 1: isn't just affecting our job choices, It's also affecting how 155 00:08:14,556 --> 00:08:17,796 Speaker 1: we choose to live our lives generally. Consider the results 156 00:08:17,836 --> 00:08:20,676 Speaker 1: of one study which has surveyed the values of incoming 157 00:08:20,716 --> 00:08:24,716 Speaker 1: freshmen for the last half century. In twenty eighteen, more 158 00:08:24,756 --> 00:08:27,196 Speaker 1: than eighty percent of freshmen said that being well off 159 00:08:27,196 --> 00:08:30,836 Speaker 1: financially was really important in life. It was more important 160 00:08:30,836 --> 00:08:34,396 Speaker 1: than raising a family or developing a meaningful philosophy on life. 161 00:08:35,076 --> 00:08:37,236 Speaker 1: And that's a big change compared to the answers their 162 00:08:37,276 --> 00:08:40,796 Speaker 1: parents or grandparents gave. The number of students who think 163 00:08:40,836 --> 00:08:43,996 Speaker 1: big salaries are key has gone up dramatically since the 164 00:08:44,036 --> 00:08:47,436 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. But as our growing intuition about a link 165 00:08:47,476 --> 00:08:51,596 Speaker 1: between money and job satisfaction right, can employers really improve 166 00:08:51,636 --> 00:08:53,796 Speaker 1: the well being of the nearly two thirds of people 167 00:08:53,796 --> 00:08:56,236 Speaker 1: who hate their jobs simply by paying them more. 168 00:08:57,036 --> 00:08:59,556 Speaker 5: When you ask people what would make their lives better 169 00:08:59,716 --> 00:09:02,636 Speaker 5: or what would make their jobs better, the first thing 170 00:09:02,716 --> 00:09:05,316 Speaker 5: they point to is my life so good and if 171 00:09:05,356 --> 00:09:07,996 Speaker 5: I only made ten percent more it would be perfect. 172 00:09:08,356 --> 00:09:12,356 Speaker 1: This is Barry Schwarz, Emeritus Professor of Psychology is Worthmore College, 173 00:09:12,476 --> 00:09:14,236 Speaker 1: an author of the book Why We. 174 00:09:14,116 --> 00:09:18,436 Speaker 5: Work People are wrong. This is not the case. Money 175 00:09:19,036 --> 00:09:22,156 Speaker 5: does buy a little bit of happiness, but it doesn't 176 00:09:22,156 --> 00:09:23,636 Speaker 5: buy a lot of happiness. 177 00:09:23,996 --> 00:09:27,356 Speaker 1: We covered this in an earlier episode called The Unhappy Millionaire, 178 00:09:27,636 --> 00:09:30,436 Speaker 1: but it's worth repeating here. If you're not making a 179 00:09:30,476 --> 00:09:34,036 Speaker 1: living wage, more money will definitely improve your overall wellbeing. 180 00:09:34,716 --> 00:09:36,836 Speaker 1: But if you currently earn one hundred thousand dollars or 181 00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:40,476 Speaker 1: more a year, doubling or even tripling your salary won't 182 00:09:40,556 --> 00:09:43,716 Speaker 1: have any effect on your emotions or your stress levels. 183 00:09:44,156 --> 00:09:47,396 Speaker 1: Even the super rich can lead sad and lonely lives. 184 00:09:47,676 --> 00:09:50,516 Speaker 5: For the most part, doing what you do in order 185 00:09:50,556 --> 00:09:53,556 Speaker 5: to earn a little bit more is putting your energy 186 00:09:53,836 --> 00:09:57,316 Speaker 5: in the wrong direction, and it can have perverse effects 187 00:09:57,356 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 5: in that if the amount of money you make starts 188 00:10:00,836 --> 00:10:04,756 Speaker 5: to be the metric you use to evaluate whether you're 189 00:10:04,796 --> 00:10:07,876 Speaker 5: successful or not and whether you're getting anything out of 190 00:10:07,916 --> 00:10:09,676 Speaker 5: your work, it's the wrong metric. 191 00:10:10,156 --> 00:10:12,436 Speaker 1: I've seen so many of my Yale students head in 192 00:10:12,516 --> 00:10:16,476 Speaker 1: exactly this wrong direction. After graduation, they pick a job 193 00:10:16,556 --> 00:10:20,196 Speaker 1: based only on salary. Sometimes they even choose careers they 194 00:10:20,276 --> 00:10:22,596 Speaker 1: kind of know they're going to hate just because it 195 00:10:22,636 --> 00:10:25,076 Speaker 1: comes with a great paycheck. But they soon end up 196 00:10:25,116 --> 00:10:27,956 Speaker 1: experiencing what's come to be known as the golden handcuffs, 197 00:10:28,516 --> 00:10:31,156 Speaker 1: that feeling of being stuck in a high paying job 198 00:10:31,436 --> 00:10:34,676 Speaker 1: that you absolutely hate. And that's one of the reasons 199 00:10:34,716 --> 00:10:37,556 Speaker 1: that professions we often think of as good jobs, the 200 00:10:37,596 --> 00:10:41,116 Speaker 1: most prestigious ones with the highest salaries think doctor, lawyer, 201 00:10:41,156 --> 00:10:44,756 Speaker 1: Wall Street investor. The people who have these prestigious jobs 202 00:10:45,076 --> 00:10:47,516 Speaker 1: have suicide rates that are one and a half times 203 00:10:47,556 --> 00:10:51,996 Speaker 1: those of the average population. Higher paychecks are simply not 204 00:10:52,076 --> 00:10:55,156 Speaker 1: having the positive effect on our mental health that we think. 205 00:10:55,836 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 1: But why are our intuitions about money and job satisfaction 206 00:10:58,956 --> 00:11:01,356 Speaker 1: so messed up? How did we come to think of 207 00:11:01,396 --> 00:11:03,676 Speaker 1: more money as the answer to all our work woes? 208 00:11:04,236 --> 00:11:06,396 Speaker 1: And if a huge paycheck doesn't make a job better, 209 00:11:06,676 --> 00:11:09,436 Speaker 1: then what does To get to the bottom of all 210 00:11:09,476 --> 00:11:11,956 Speaker 1: these questions, we need to turn back to the very 211 00:11:11,996 --> 00:11:15,716 Speaker 1: critter we started the show with. That's right, the rat, 212 00:11:18,556 --> 00:11:29,596 Speaker 1: the happiness lab. We'll be back in a moment, back 213 00:11:29,596 --> 00:11:33,076 Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds, a famous Scottish philosopher visited an 214 00:11:33,116 --> 00:11:37,756 Speaker 1: innovative manufacturing operation, a pin factory. Now you might not 215 00:11:37,796 --> 00:11:41,196 Speaker 1: think pin making would require that much innovation. I mean, 216 00:11:41,316 --> 00:11:43,916 Speaker 1: at first glance, it doesn't seem all that complicated to 217 00:11:43,956 --> 00:11:46,756 Speaker 1: make a simple pin. And we're not even talking about 218 00:11:46,836 --> 00:11:50,076 Speaker 1: safety pins here, just the really, really simple straight kind. 219 00:11:50,716 --> 00:11:53,836 Speaker 1: But back in the eighteenth century, creating each pin was tough. 220 00:11:54,476 --> 00:11:58,436 Speaker 1: It took eighteen individual steps. First, you needed to measure 221 00:11:58,476 --> 00:12:01,916 Speaker 1: and clip the length of wire, then straight in. After 222 00:12:01,956 --> 00:12:05,796 Speaker 1: that you carefully sharpened one end. Once that point was set, 223 00:12:06,156 --> 00:12:08,956 Speaker 1: you prepared the other end to attach the head, which 224 00:12:08,956 --> 00:12:11,916 Speaker 1: in several steps, like grinding the top to make sure 225 00:12:11,916 --> 00:12:15,356 Speaker 1: it was the right texture. Finally, the pinheads needed to 226 00:12:15,396 --> 00:12:17,916 Speaker 1: be a fixed and after that they had to be 227 00:12:17,956 --> 00:12:20,436 Speaker 1: placed in a perfect row onto a little sheet of 228 00:12:20,476 --> 00:12:24,676 Speaker 1: cardboard that holds them. Pin manufacturer was a time consuming business. 229 00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:26,956 Speaker 1: A worker on his own who did all of those 230 00:12:26,996 --> 00:12:30,156 Speaker 1: steps one after another would only be able to make 231 00:12:30,156 --> 00:12:33,276 Speaker 1: about twenty pins per day. But the management of the 232 00:12:33,316 --> 00:12:36,196 Speaker 1: factory figured out how to speed things up. They broke 233 00:12:36,236 --> 00:12:38,756 Speaker 1: the work up so that each employee only did one 234 00:12:38,836 --> 00:12:41,956 Speaker 1: or two steps over and over again. It was this 235 00:12:42,036 --> 00:12:45,996 Speaker 1: innovation that especially impressed that visiting philosopher, a scholar who 236 00:12:46,036 --> 00:12:49,756 Speaker 1: later became known as the father of economics, Adam Smith. 237 00:12:51,476 --> 00:12:54,196 Speaker 1: Smith began his famous book The Wealth of Nations with 238 00:12:54,276 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 1: a story of this humble enterprise. He realized that the 239 00:12:57,476 --> 00:13:00,796 Speaker 1: factory's assembly line didn't just allow production to go a 240 00:13:00,796 --> 00:13:04,756 Speaker 1: little faster. On the day he visited, ten workers were 241 00:13:04,796 --> 00:13:07,916 Speaker 1: able to make twelve pounds of pins, so forty eight 242 00:13:07,916 --> 00:13:11,436 Speaker 1: thousand in total. That's a rate that's fifty times faster 243 00:13:11,756 --> 00:13:15,356 Speaker 1: than the traditional method. By splitting up the complex task, 244 00:13:15,476 --> 00:13:19,516 Speaker 1: Smith argued, management could create way, way way more pins 245 00:13:19,716 --> 00:13:22,876 Speaker 1: at a much, much, much lower cost, and that meant 246 00:13:22,916 --> 00:13:26,116 Speaker 1: that customers could buy pins more cheaply, and they might 247 00:13:26,156 --> 00:13:28,556 Speaker 1: even think of new ways to use pins since they 248 00:13:28,556 --> 00:13:31,876 Speaker 1: were now so cheap, which might increase the overall market 249 00:13:31,876 --> 00:13:36,356 Speaker 1: for pins, making the factory even more money. In the end, 250 00:13:36,556 --> 00:13:40,436 Speaker 1: this simple pin factory inspired Smith's principle of the assembly line, 251 00:13:40,916 --> 00:13:44,156 Speaker 1: or what he called division of labor. It was an 252 00:13:44,196 --> 00:13:48,076 Speaker 1: idea that completely changed the Industrial Revolution and paved the 253 00:13:48,076 --> 00:13:53,996 Speaker 1: way for modern capitalist manufacturing. But as psychologist Barry Schwartz 254 00:13:54,116 --> 00:13:56,756 Speaker 1: argues in his book Why We work. There was a 255 00:13:56,756 --> 00:14:00,476 Speaker 1: big downside to division of labor, at least for the pinworkers. 256 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:03,636 Speaker 5: So you've just taking appliers and straightening wire and handing 257 00:14:03,676 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 5: off to the next guy. Why would you show up 258 00:14:06,076 --> 00:14:09,836 Speaker 5: at this job. There's only one possible reason to do 259 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:11,956 Speaker 5: this work, and that's for the paycheck. 260 00:14:12,116 --> 00:14:14,156 Speaker 1: The idea that people need to get paid in return 261 00:14:14,196 --> 00:14:16,956 Speaker 1: for their labor was central to some of Smith's deeper 262 00:14:16,996 --> 00:14:18,276 Speaker 1: ideas about human nature. 263 00:14:18,596 --> 00:14:22,276 Speaker 5: His view was that people were basically lazy, and if 264 00:14:22,316 --> 00:14:26,036 Speaker 5: they didn't have to work, they wouldn't and so the 265 00:14:26,116 --> 00:14:31,076 Speaker 5: optimal life is lying on a couch eating Doritos and 266 00:14:31,236 --> 00:14:34,876 Speaker 5: watching Netflix. So how do you get people off their asses? 267 00:14:34,956 --> 00:14:37,156 Speaker 5: You have to make it worth their while for them 268 00:14:37,196 --> 00:14:40,196 Speaker 5: to do things, and they will work as hard as 269 00:14:40,236 --> 00:14:44,116 Speaker 5: you make them work to get the payoff. What they 270 00:14:44,196 --> 00:14:47,956 Speaker 5: do doesn't matter, since they'd rather be doing nothing than something. 271 00:14:48,476 --> 00:14:51,316 Speaker 5: As long as you have the incentives right, you can 272 00:14:51,356 --> 00:14:54,796 Speaker 5: get them to do anything. Nobody likes working on an 273 00:14:54,836 --> 00:14:58,516 Speaker 5: assembly line, but Smith's point is that nobody likes doing 274 00:14:58,556 --> 00:15:01,436 Speaker 5: any kind of work. So break the work up into 275 00:15:01,596 --> 00:15:05,236 Speaker 5: as efficient and meaningless chunks as you can so that 276 00:15:05,316 --> 00:15:07,236 Speaker 5: people can do the same thing over and over and 277 00:15:07,276 --> 00:15:09,756 Speaker 5: over again, as fast as possible. As long as you 278 00:15:09,836 --> 00:15:11,076 Speaker 5: pay them, they'll do it. 279 00:15:11,516 --> 00:15:15,036 Speaker 1: Smith's view of humans is lazy. Paycheck seekers pervaded the 280 00:15:15,196 --> 00:15:18,356 Speaker 1: entire Industrial Revolution, but it would take more than one 281 00:15:18,436 --> 00:15:23,116 Speaker 1: hundred years before Smith's concepts were tested scientifically, and that's 282 00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:30,036 Speaker 1: where we turned back to the humble rat. Seventeen decades 283 00:15:30,076 --> 00:15:32,916 Speaker 1: after the publication of the Wealth of Nations, a bunch 284 00:15:32,916 --> 00:15:35,796 Speaker 1: of rats would finally give Smith's ideas of human nature 285 00:15:36,236 --> 00:15:37,916 Speaker 1: the scientific veneer they needed. 286 00:15:38,236 --> 00:15:42,716 Speaker 5: My training as a psychologist began in the framework developed 287 00:15:42,756 --> 00:15:46,636 Speaker 5: by a guy named BF Skinner, who at the time 288 00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:51,836 Speaker 5: was probably the most famous and most influential living psychologists. 289 00:15:51,956 --> 00:15:56,716 Speaker 5: Skinner invented the famous Skinner box, where you would take 290 00:15:56,716 --> 00:15:58,436 Speaker 5: a rat and put them in a box, and they'd 291 00:15:58,476 --> 00:16:01,316 Speaker 5: be hungry and or thirsty, and they'd run down on 292 00:16:01,316 --> 00:16:03,836 Speaker 5: an alley, or they'd push on a bar and they'd 293 00:16:03,836 --> 00:16:07,556 Speaker 5: get food, or they'd get water. And he thought that 294 00:16:07,676 --> 00:16:13,956 Speaker 5: by understanding how payoffs influenced the behavior of rats, you 295 00:16:13,996 --> 00:16:19,236 Speaker 5: would understand what governed all the voluntary behavior of all 296 00:16:19,476 --> 00:16:23,556 Speaker 5: living things. He didn't care about rats, He cared about people. 297 00:16:23,996 --> 00:16:27,596 Speaker 5: But he thought that in this little, simple environment, you 298 00:16:27,836 --> 00:16:31,556 Speaker 5: basically were capturing why people work hard in the workplace 299 00:16:31,676 --> 00:16:34,956 Speaker 5: because they want a paycheck or bonus or promotion. And 300 00:16:34,996 --> 00:16:38,436 Speaker 5: that's the nature of human motivation is we do things 301 00:16:38,476 --> 00:16:42,196 Speaker 5: to get things. This is very much in the spirit 302 00:16:42,356 --> 00:16:45,756 Speaker 5: of Adam Smith, the father of the Industrial Revolution. 303 00:16:46,356 --> 00:16:50,756 Speaker 1: Skinner's work finally gave Smith's ideas the scientific validation they needed. 304 00:16:51,556 --> 00:16:55,036 Speaker 1: His rats provided proof that organisms are in fact lazy, 305 00:16:55,636 --> 00:16:57,996 Speaker 1: that they needed a reward for getting off their butts, 306 00:16:58,636 --> 00:17:01,396 Speaker 1: and that they'd probably never find work to be inherently 307 00:17:01,436 --> 00:17:05,516 Speaker 1: worth doing or fun, which means if you want to 308 00:17:05,516 --> 00:17:08,076 Speaker 1: get people to work, you got to give him a reward. 309 00:17:08,596 --> 00:17:11,036 Speaker 1: But Barry argues that there's a problem with this. People 310 00:17:11,076 --> 00:17:13,676 Speaker 1: are so leasy you've got to pay them. View the 311 00:17:13,756 --> 00:17:15,836 Speaker 1: problem is it's flat out wrong. 312 00:17:16,276 --> 00:17:18,996 Speaker 5: People won't work if they don't get paid, and they 313 00:17:19,036 --> 00:17:22,036 Speaker 5: need to make enough money to support themselves in their family. 314 00:17:22,596 --> 00:17:26,316 Speaker 5: But once that's done, that's not really what motivates people. 315 00:17:26,356 --> 00:17:29,436 Speaker 5: What motivates people is they want to be working on 316 00:17:29,476 --> 00:17:34,196 Speaker 5: something that matters, which from most of the time means 317 00:17:34,236 --> 00:17:36,716 Speaker 5: has an impact on the lives of other people, not 318 00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:40,916 Speaker 5: curing cancer impact, it could be a small impact. They 319 00:17:40,996 --> 00:17:45,276 Speaker 5: want work that engages them, that forces them to think, 320 00:17:45,356 --> 00:17:48,156 Speaker 5: to be active. They want work that's vary, not the 321 00:17:48,236 --> 00:17:51,636 Speaker 5: same thing over and over again. They want work that's challenging. 322 00:17:51,836 --> 00:17:57,596 Speaker 5: And all those things make jobs good. Given a constant. 323 00:17:57,116 --> 00:18:01,436 Speaker 1: Pay These sorts of intrinsic rewards, feeling engaged, finding meaning, 324 00:18:01,516 --> 00:18:05,836 Speaker 1: getting creative, they make work worth doing and allowing workers 325 00:18:05,916 --> 00:18:09,356 Speaker 1: to experience these internal rewards, it turns out be a 326 00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:12,076 Speaker 1: smarter thing for employers to focus on than a paycheck, 327 00:18:12,796 --> 00:18:15,076 Speaker 1: because a growing body of research shows that if you 328 00:18:15,116 --> 00:18:17,796 Speaker 1: want good work done, you might want to try making 329 00:18:17,836 --> 00:18:19,876 Speaker 1: your employee's jobs a little happier. 330 00:18:20,116 --> 00:18:22,036 Speaker 5: You want people who show up in the office every 331 00:18:22,076 --> 00:18:24,596 Speaker 5: day because they want to be in the office every day, 332 00:18:24,916 --> 00:18:28,356 Speaker 5: and who leave every day feeling like somebody's life has 333 00:18:28,396 --> 00:18:30,236 Speaker 5: been made better because of what they did. 334 00:18:30,556 --> 00:18:33,196 Speaker 1: But if that's the case, why do so many careers 335 00:18:33,276 --> 00:18:36,996 Speaker 1: lack things like meaning or engagement. Why do so many 336 00:18:37,036 --> 00:18:40,836 Speaker 1: people hate their jobs? The reason, according to Barry, is 337 00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:44,276 Speaker 1: that employers bought into a self fulfilling prophecy. They're working 338 00:18:44,316 --> 00:18:47,436 Speaker 1: with the same wrong theory of human motivation that Smith 339 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:50,876 Speaker 1: had hundreds of years ago, that people are lazy and 340 00:18:50,916 --> 00:18:53,076 Speaker 1: that money is the only way to motivate them. 341 00:18:53,396 --> 00:18:58,676 Speaker 5: So you create a world in which Smith's vision is true. 342 00:18:59,116 --> 00:19:03,116 Speaker 5: You create a world in which meaning, engagement, autonomy, control, 343 00:19:03,196 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 5: and challenge have all been eliminated. And then you look 344 00:19:06,276 --> 00:19:08,436 Speaker 5: at you point to people working in this world, and 345 00:19:08,476 --> 00:19:11,116 Speaker 5: you say, see, I told you people just do it for. 346 00:19:11,116 --> 00:19:14,916 Speaker 1: The pay, and as Skinner showed, rewards do work. People 347 00:19:14,996 --> 00:19:17,916 Speaker 1: will do my nummy jobs like sticking heads on pins 348 00:19:17,996 --> 00:19:20,476 Speaker 1: over and over and over. But they won't do it 349 00:19:20,476 --> 00:19:24,116 Speaker 1: because of the normal human motivations for meaning or passion 350 00:19:24,596 --> 00:19:26,516 Speaker 1: or any of the important things that make us want 351 00:19:26,516 --> 00:19:29,556 Speaker 1: to get up in the morning. And that worries Barry. 352 00:19:30,276 --> 00:19:33,396 Speaker 1: The pin factory division of labor still reigns in lots 353 00:19:33,396 --> 00:19:36,596 Speaker 1: and lots of modern jobs, from boring data entry work 354 00:19:36,876 --> 00:19:39,756 Speaker 1: to tedious telephone sales to the workers who have to 355 00:19:39,756 --> 00:19:42,676 Speaker 1: put buns on fast food hamburgers over and over and over. 356 00:19:43,036 --> 00:19:46,236 Speaker 5: Essentially, you've created a Skinner box. You've created an environment 357 00:19:46,316 --> 00:19:50,636 Speaker 5: in which Smith's view is correct because you've eliminated every 358 00:19:50,636 --> 00:19:52,916 Speaker 5: other factor that might influence people. 359 00:19:53,276 --> 00:19:55,836 Speaker 1: Barry has also seen this trend emerging in careers that 360 00:19:55,916 --> 00:19:58,836 Speaker 1: are often considered to be much higher status and more skilled. 361 00:19:59,516 --> 00:20:01,596 Speaker 1: They are now also filled with the sorts of carrots 362 00:20:01,636 --> 00:20:04,276 Speaker 1: and sticks you need when people's hearts and minds aren't 363 00:20:04,276 --> 00:20:07,516 Speaker 1: into what they're doing. Law firms that force attorneys to 364 00:20:07,516 --> 00:20:11,316 Speaker 1: clock there every second with clients, HMOs that regulate doctor's 365 00:20:11,356 --> 00:20:14,676 Speaker 1: interactions with patients, lots and lots of jobs are starting 366 00:20:14,676 --> 00:20:17,516 Speaker 1: to feel more like a rat race because they're specifically 367 00:20:17,556 --> 00:20:21,436 Speaker 1: designed to treat us like Skinner's rodents. The biggest irony 368 00:20:21,476 --> 00:20:24,276 Speaker 1: of this, though, is that by removing meaning from work, 369 00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:28,276 Speaker 1: you inadvertently make people more miserable, and that means you 370 00:20:28,316 --> 00:20:33,316 Speaker 1: get less productive, less motivated, and less conscientious workers. Removing 371 00:20:33,396 --> 00:20:36,356 Speaker 1: meaning can jeopardize a business's profits, and. 372 00:20:36,316 --> 00:20:39,396 Speaker 5: It makes you wonder why it is that people who 373 00:20:39,476 --> 00:20:42,396 Speaker 5: want to make money are leaving money on the table 374 00:20:42,556 --> 00:20:47,956 Speaker 5: by creating workplaces that drive productivity out of their workforce. 375 00:20:48,716 --> 00:20:53,396 Speaker 5: No effort is put into creating workplaces where people want 376 00:20:53,476 --> 00:20:53,676 Speaker 5: to be. 377 00:20:54,316 --> 00:20:56,676 Speaker 1: The good news, though, is that there is another path 378 00:20:56,716 --> 00:20:57,196 Speaker 1: to follow. 379 00:20:57,516 --> 00:21:01,756 Speaker 5: You can make reasonably unattractive work attractive if you make 380 00:21:01,796 --> 00:21:05,516 Speaker 5: people feel trusted and important in the work that they do. 381 00:21:06,036 --> 00:21:07,716 Speaker 1: And that's why I want to turn back to Marty. 382 00:21:08,356 --> 00:21:10,876 Speaker 1: I mean, what his job seems to fit the definition 383 00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:12,836 Speaker 1: of reasonably unattractive work. 384 00:21:12,996 --> 00:21:14,636 Speaker 4: We had calls a lot for just to pick up 385 00:21:14,636 --> 00:21:16,956 Speaker 4: a debty animal or something, and some of that can 386 00:21:16,996 --> 00:21:19,156 Speaker 4: be pretty, uh, not very pleasant. 387 00:21:19,396 --> 00:21:22,436 Speaker 1: In fact, when Marty first got into exterminating, he was 388 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:25,436 Speaker 1: focused on the same external rewards that many of us 389 00:21:25,556 --> 00:21:26,596 Speaker 1: used to pick a new career. 390 00:21:26,836 --> 00:21:30,076 Speaker 4: I was doing a maintenance work at a local newspaper 391 00:21:30,316 --> 00:21:33,516 Speaker 4: and I saw an ad pest control company vehicle take 392 00:21:33,556 --> 00:21:35,116 Speaker 4: That was really cool to me. I was like twenty 393 00:21:35,196 --> 00:21:36,556 Speaker 4: years old, and they're going to give me a company 394 00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:37,676 Speaker 4: vehicle to take home. Wow. 395 00:21:37,996 --> 00:21:39,916 Speaker 1: But if you ask Marty what he loves about this 396 00:21:39,996 --> 00:21:43,356 Speaker 1: career forty years later, that company car has little to 397 00:21:43,396 --> 00:21:43,796 Speaker 1: do with it. 398 00:21:44,076 --> 00:21:46,036 Speaker 4: I just love the variety. I love that you never 399 00:21:46,036 --> 00:21:47,556 Speaker 4: know where you're going to be from one day to 400 00:21:47,636 --> 00:21:50,156 Speaker 4: the next. Just yesterday, I was taking a possum off 401 00:21:50,196 --> 00:21:51,476 Speaker 4: of a roof. I don't know how it got up 402 00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:54,116 Speaker 4: on a roof. It's I don't know, it's just it's fun. 403 00:21:54,916 --> 00:21:57,676 Speaker 1: When Marty gets talking about what he loves about his job, 404 00:21:58,076 --> 00:22:01,436 Speaker 1: you're in for a really long conversation, because pest control 405 00:22:01,516 --> 00:22:04,316 Speaker 1: gives him lots and lots of the internal rewards that 406 00:22:04,436 --> 00:22:07,796 Speaker 1: science shows us makes his job worth doing. Like variety 407 00:22:08,156 --> 00:22:09,836 Speaker 1: and mental challenge. 408 00:22:09,556 --> 00:22:12,276 Speaker 4: It's about solving problems more or less. I remember chasing 409 00:22:12,276 --> 00:22:15,516 Speaker 4: a bat out of one of the libraries actually here 410 00:22:15,516 --> 00:22:18,116 Speaker 4: at Yale. Oh really, and it was it was rather 411 00:22:18,156 --> 00:22:20,196 Speaker 4: difficult before, and we had to bring an extension ladder 412 00:22:20,196 --> 00:22:21,396 Speaker 4: in and all the way up to the top of 413 00:22:21,396 --> 00:22:24,276 Speaker 4: the ladder with a net, and it flew away and 414 00:22:24,316 --> 00:22:26,276 Speaker 4: it just went into event and never never was heard 415 00:22:26,316 --> 00:22:28,356 Speaker 4: from again. You just never know what you're gonna get 416 00:22:28,716 --> 00:22:29,836 Speaker 4: and one day to the next. 417 00:22:30,396 --> 00:22:33,516 Speaker 1: Marty's job also gives him a sense of meaning beyond 418 00:22:33,596 --> 00:22:36,836 Speaker 1: just working through creative solutions to problems. He also gets 419 00:22:36,836 --> 00:22:39,676 Speaker 1: to help some very scared people. 420 00:22:39,876 --> 00:22:41,716 Speaker 4: They had a student once that woke up and saw 421 00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:43,956 Speaker 4: a cockroach on her bedroom door, which was about six 422 00:22:43,956 --> 00:22:47,596 Speaker 4: feet across the room, totally terrified in tears, wouldn't get 423 00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:51,516 Speaker 4: out of bed until it was solved. So going there 424 00:22:51,516 --> 00:22:53,756 Speaker 4: and solving something like that, really, yeah, you know, it 425 00:22:53,796 --> 00:22:56,276 Speaker 4: makes you. It makes you feel good. I get a 426 00:22:56,316 --> 00:22:57,476 Speaker 4: lot of thank you from the kids. 427 00:22:57,756 --> 00:23:00,476 Speaker 1: Marty also gets to help his clients overcome the feelings 428 00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:03,316 Speaker 1: of shame they have about requiring his services in the 429 00:23:03,316 --> 00:23:03,876 Speaker 1: first place. 430 00:23:04,276 --> 00:23:06,076 Speaker 4: I try to explain to him that any it can 431 00:23:06,116 --> 00:23:09,156 Speaker 4: happen to anybody. People get bugs, people get cockroaches. The 432 00:23:09,436 --> 00:23:12,956 Speaker 4: cleanest environments that calms them down a bit, calms their fairs, 433 00:23:12,996 --> 00:23:16,676 Speaker 4: and you know they're less embarrassed. Do you think you'd 434 00:23:16,676 --> 00:23:19,276 Speaker 4: do it if they didn't pay you, I mean helping people? Yeah, 435 00:23:19,276 --> 00:23:22,436 Speaker 4: because you know a neighbor or something and that comes over. Hey, 436 00:23:22,436 --> 00:23:24,036 Speaker 4: I have a bee's nest or something like that and 437 00:23:24,196 --> 00:23:26,636 Speaker 4: you've had, you know, the experience in taking care of it, 438 00:23:26,756 --> 00:23:28,436 Speaker 4: Or how do I get rid of the squirrels in 439 00:23:28,436 --> 00:23:30,836 Speaker 4: my attic? Or Yeah, I think I'd still do it. 440 00:23:31,196 --> 00:23:32,956 Speaker 4: There's really no other job like it. It's such a 441 00:23:33,076 --> 00:23:36,756 Speaker 4: unique position. Meeting different people, different problems. Every day is different. 442 00:23:36,956 --> 00:23:40,076 Speaker 4: I do feel grateful and lucky that I'm doing this. 443 00:23:40,756 --> 00:23:43,716 Speaker 1: Human beings aren't lab rats in a skinner box. We're 444 00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:48,116 Speaker 1: motivated not just by monetary rewards, but by variety, challenge, 445 00:23:48,196 --> 00:23:51,596 Speaker 1: and having a positive impact on other people's lives. These 446 00:23:51,636 --> 00:23:53,916 Speaker 1: are the things that get workers like Marty out of 447 00:23:53,956 --> 00:23:57,156 Speaker 1: bed on a Monday morning. The problem is that a 448 00:23:57,156 --> 00:23:59,676 Speaker 1: lot of us don't experience the same joy that Marty 449 00:23:59,716 --> 00:24:02,316 Speaker 1: finds in his work. But you don't need to quit 450 00:24:02,356 --> 00:24:05,396 Speaker 1: your job to find the happiness that he enjoys. There 451 00:24:05,436 --> 00:24:08,516 Speaker 1: are evidence based strategies you can use to enricher work, 452 00:24:08,796 --> 00:24:12,196 Speaker 1: no matter what your actual job description. Will learn about 453 00:24:12,196 --> 00:24:15,396 Speaker 1: all those strategies when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment. 454 00:24:25,756 --> 00:24:30,116 Speaker 1: Most teenage obsessions revolve around bands, or sports or political causes. 455 00:24:30,756 --> 00:24:34,556 Speaker 1: Amy Rizneski found herself drawn to something very different, a 456 00:24:34,596 --> 00:24:37,076 Speaker 1: topic she turned over and over in her young mind. 457 00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:39,436 Speaker 3: It has taken me a really long time to figure 458 00:24:39,436 --> 00:24:42,196 Speaker 3: out why it's sort of weird for a teenager to 459 00:24:42,276 --> 00:24:43,716 Speaker 3: become interested in something like this. 460 00:24:43,996 --> 00:24:46,756 Speaker 1: What was the thing that had Amy so puzzled Well, 461 00:24:46,796 --> 00:24:49,156 Speaker 1: She looked around at the people in her life, people 462 00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:52,596 Speaker 1: in her family, her neighborhood, in stores and offices, and 463 00:24:52,676 --> 00:24:55,316 Speaker 1: she saw a vivid and troubling divide and. 464 00:24:55,396 --> 00:24:58,676 Speaker 3: Seeing people who were working incredibly hard but feeling at 465 00:24:58,716 --> 00:25:01,396 Speaker 3: the end of the day kind of maybe empty, maybe 466 00:25:01,476 --> 00:25:03,916 Speaker 3: not too strong a word about what it all meant, 467 00:25:04,116 --> 00:25:07,356 Speaker 3: Versus people who felt like they bounded out of work 468 00:25:07,436 --> 00:25:10,316 Speaker 3: every day to come home feeling as though they had 469 00:25:10,356 --> 00:25:13,356 Speaker 3: done something that really mattered and they had done it 470 00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:16,556 Speaker 3: well and it had changed people's lives. And the thing 471 00:25:16,596 --> 00:25:18,956 Speaker 3: that's been for me the most fascinating part of this 472 00:25:18,996 --> 00:25:22,156 Speaker 3: puzzle is that it's not necessarily contingent on the kind 473 00:25:22,196 --> 00:25:24,516 Speaker 3: of work people are doing. And I think that's a 474 00:25:24,676 --> 00:25:27,596 Speaker 3: very cool puzzle to try to unpack and think. 475 00:25:27,476 --> 00:25:30,676 Speaker 1: About figuring that puzzle out. Row Amy here to Yale, 476 00:25:31,076 --> 00:25:33,636 Speaker 1: where she's now a professor at the School of Management. 477 00:25:33,796 --> 00:25:36,436 Speaker 3: There's a whole research literature that analyzes of what's a 478 00:25:36,436 --> 00:25:37,756 Speaker 3: good job and what's a bad job, and it just 479 00:25:37,796 --> 00:25:40,356 Speaker 3: looks at the job like what is that the person's doing, 480 00:25:40,836 --> 00:25:44,996 Speaker 3: And as psychologists, we knew there might be actually more 481 00:25:45,076 --> 00:25:48,116 Speaker 3: going on here in terms of how people really experience 482 00:25:48,156 --> 00:25:49,556 Speaker 3: this work and think about this work. 483 00:25:50,036 --> 00:25:52,836 Speaker 1: Research back in the nineteen eighties had shown that people 484 00:25:52,876 --> 00:25:55,596 Speaker 1: tend to take one of three orientations towards their work. 485 00:25:56,036 --> 00:25:58,436 Speaker 1: They either think of it as a job, a career, 486 00:25:58,876 --> 00:25:59,476 Speaker 1: or a calling. 487 00:25:59,796 --> 00:26:02,116 Speaker 3: So people who view their work primarily as a job 488 00:26:02,556 --> 00:26:05,236 Speaker 3: see the work as a means to a financial end. 489 00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:08,516 Speaker 3: People who've either worked with a career orientation see the 490 00:26:08,556 --> 00:26:12,476 Speaker 3: work as prime merely a means to advance within the 491 00:26:12,516 --> 00:26:14,876 Speaker 3: field or the work or the occupation they're in, to 492 00:26:14,956 --> 00:26:17,116 Speaker 3: stepping stone to the next thing that's going to come. 493 00:26:17,476 --> 00:26:20,036 Speaker 3: Whereas people who see the work as a calling are 494 00:26:20,036 --> 00:26:25,276 Speaker 3: not focused on financial outcomes primarily or career advancement primarily, 495 00:26:25,276 --> 00:26:28,996 Speaker 3: but instead are primarily focused on the work itself. They 496 00:26:29,116 --> 00:26:31,356 Speaker 3: see the work as an end in itself. These are 497 00:26:31,396 --> 00:26:33,796 Speaker 3: people who, again if they hit the lottery or something 498 00:26:33,876 --> 00:26:36,196 Speaker 3: like that, feel so deeply about the work that they're doing, 499 00:26:36,236 --> 00:26:38,356 Speaker 3: feel fulfilled by it, feel like it's a contribution that 500 00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:40,196 Speaker 3: they would be more likely to want to stay involved 501 00:26:40,236 --> 00:26:44,476 Speaker 3: in it. And interestingly, they see the work, regardless of 502 00:26:44,476 --> 00:26:47,236 Speaker 3: what the job is, as contributing to the world in 503 00:26:47,276 --> 00:26:48,916 Speaker 3: a meaningful way to make it a better place. 504 00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:52,356 Speaker 1: But the question that fascinated Amy was how a person 505 00:26:52,396 --> 00:26:55,716 Speaker 1: comes to consider their work a calling. You might think 506 00:26:55,756 --> 00:26:58,076 Speaker 1: the way to test this question would be to study 507 00:26:58,116 --> 00:27:02,156 Speaker 1: professionals that we typically think of as well respected surgeons, 508 00:27:02,236 --> 00:27:06,116 Speaker 1: concert pianists, podcast hosts, that kind of thing. But Amy 509 00:27:06,156 --> 00:27:10,316 Speaker 1: did something different. She studied how positive work orientations develop 510 00:27:10,756 --> 00:27:12,676 Speaker 1: and seemingly not so great jobs. 511 00:27:13,076 --> 00:27:17,156 Speaker 3: We were really interested in understanding the experience of people 512 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:20,796 Speaker 3: who clean in hospitals, so hospital custodial staff. 513 00:27:21,196 --> 00:27:23,876 Speaker 1: The duties of a hospital janitor are easy to sum up. 514 00:27:24,356 --> 00:27:28,156 Speaker 1: Mop the floors, sweep up wash, soiled bed linens, dispose 515 00:27:28,236 --> 00:27:31,876 Speaker 1: of garbage bins filled with hazardous waste. It's not fun stuff. 516 00:27:32,436 --> 00:27:35,956 Speaker 1: These sorts of positions don't require much previous experience or 517 00:27:36,076 --> 00:27:40,716 Speaker 1: formal education. Becoming a hospital janitor is considered neither glamorous 518 00:27:40,956 --> 00:27:43,756 Speaker 1: nor all that skilled. But Amy wasn't interested in what 519 00:27:43,796 --> 00:27:46,916 Speaker 1: the typical person thought of this work. She was interested 520 00:27:46,916 --> 00:27:50,596 Speaker 1: in how the cleaning staff themselves described their rules. So 521 00:27:50,636 --> 00:27:53,436 Speaker 1: she just asked a group of hospital workers, how skilled 522 00:27:53,436 --> 00:27:54,356 Speaker 1: do you think your job is? 523 00:27:54,996 --> 00:27:59,076 Speaker 3: Simple question, except it yielded two really different answers. We 524 00:27:59,196 --> 00:28:02,036 Speaker 3: had one set of participants who said it's not very 525 00:28:02,076 --> 00:28:04,316 Speaker 3: skilled at all, and we had another set of participants 526 00:28:04,356 --> 00:28:06,276 Speaker 3: who reported the work was really quite skilled. 527 00:28:06,716 --> 00:28:09,836 Speaker 1: Amy figured she must have inadvertently tested two kinds of 528 00:28:09,836 --> 00:28:13,876 Speaker 1: staff members once with different duties. Maybe one group had 529 00:28:13,916 --> 00:28:17,356 Speaker 1: more senior janitors or more specialist roles, But that turned 530 00:28:17,396 --> 00:28:17,876 Speaker 1: out not to. 531 00:28:17,796 --> 00:28:20,356 Speaker 3: Be the case. Nothing about the structure of their job 532 00:28:20,396 --> 00:28:21,836 Speaker 3: explained this difference. 533 00:28:21,836 --> 00:28:25,236 Speaker 1: So Amy dug a little deeper. Those who considered themselves 534 00:28:25,316 --> 00:28:29,276 Speaker 1: unskilled were generally dissatisfied with their jobs. They were part 535 00:28:29,276 --> 00:28:32,036 Speaker 1: of that two thirds of Americans who were disengaged from 536 00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:35,076 Speaker 1: their work. But the staff members who saw their job 537 00:28:35,116 --> 00:28:38,716 Speaker 1: as requiring skill absolutely loved what they did for a living. 538 00:28:39,436 --> 00:28:41,756 Speaker 1: Many of them even saw it as a calling and 539 00:28:41,836 --> 00:28:42,756 Speaker 1: acted accordingly. 540 00:28:42,796 --> 00:28:45,316 Speaker 3: They were meant to be kind of wafting in and 541 00:28:45,356 --> 00:28:47,636 Speaker 3: out of spaces and making sure that those spaces were clean. 542 00:28:48,116 --> 00:28:51,516 Speaker 3: They were instructed to not interact with patients, and what 543 00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:54,476 Speaker 3: we were finding was they were engaging in enormous amounts 544 00:28:54,476 --> 00:28:58,436 Speaker 3: of patient care and attentiveness to what was happening with 545 00:28:58,516 --> 00:29:01,356 Speaker 3: patients and their families, what it was people might need. 546 00:29:01,836 --> 00:29:06,036 Speaker 3: They really engaged the job quite differently and saw and 547 00:29:06,156 --> 00:29:08,596 Speaker 3: described what it was that they were doing there as 548 00:29:09,156 --> 00:29:10,196 Speaker 3: helping patients to heal. 549 00:29:10,956 --> 00:29:14,916 Speaker 1: Amy calls this technique job crafting, the art of redesigning 550 00:29:14,916 --> 00:29:18,116 Speaker 1: the specific work you do to match your personal strengths 551 00:29:18,156 --> 00:29:21,516 Speaker 1: and values and thus amplify the sense of meaning you 552 00:29:21,516 --> 00:29:24,836 Speaker 1: get from your job. One of Amy's favorite examples of 553 00:29:24,916 --> 00:29:27,716 Speaker 1: job crafting came from a janitor who worked on a 554 00:29:27,796 --> 00:29:31,436 Speaker 1: unit caring for Koma patients, people who were severely ill, 555 00:29:31,796 --> 00:29:35,636 Speaker 1: fully unconscious, and in need of a miracle. That staff 556 00:29:35,676 --> 00:29:38,796 Speaker 1: member did the usual duties mopping and tidying, but she 557 00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:41,756 Speaker 1: also did one additional task that wasn't strictly part of 558 00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 1: her job description and that no one had told her 559 00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:44,596 Speaker 1: to do. 560 00:29:44,916 --> 00:29:47,276 Speaker 3: She would take the artwork off the walls of the 561 00:29:47,276 --> 00:29:50,356 Speaker 3: hospital rooms in this unit and switch it around to 562 00:29:50,356 --> 00:29:52,676 Speaker 3: just sort of mix things up. Even though these patients 563 00:29:52,676 --> 00:29:57,036 Speaker 3: were not conscious. She hoped that maybe by changing something 564 00:29:57,036 --> 00:29:59,276 Speaker 3: in their environment that even if it seemed like they 565 00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:01,076 Speaker 3: weren't aware of what was going on, maybe it would 566 00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 3: stimulate something or spark something, as it was a change 567 00:30:04,196 --> 00:30:06,836 Speaker 3: that could help promote their healing and speed them along 568 00:30:07,036 --> 00:30:08,276 Speaker 3: whatever journey they would take. 569 00:30:09,236 --> 00:30:12,836 Speaker 1: Editor Amy Encountered was assigned to a particularly depressing set 570 00:30:12,836 --> 00:30:16,076 Speaker 1: of duties. She had to clean up after patients on 571 00:30:16,116 --> 00:30:16,876 Speaker 1: the cancer ward. 572 00:30:17,276 --> 00:30:19,796 Speaker 3: Given that chemotherapy makes people very sick to their stomach, 573 00:30:20,076 --> 00:30:22,236 Speaker 3: there was a lot of throwing up to contend with, 574 00:30:22,676 --> 00:30:25,516 Speaker 3: and so this cleaning staff member, who again remember by 575 00:30:25,516 --> 00:30:27,476 Speaker 3: the structure of the job, not really supposed to be 576 00:30:27,476 --> 00:30:29,396 Speaker 3: interacting with the patients. You're just supposed to go and 577 00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:34,596 Speaker 3: clean things up instead, turn this into an opportunity to 578 00:30:34,716 --> 00:30:37,956 Speaker 3: really bring comfort and humor to the patients, because imagine 579 00:30:38,156 --> 00:30:41,236 Speaker 3: you're an adult, you've just been sick all over yourself 580 00:30:41,276 --> 00:30:43,276 Speaker 3: and all over the floor. It's embarrassing. Now somebody has 581 00:30:43,316 --> 00:30:45,196 Speaker 3: to come and clean this up. You feel awful, right, 582 00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:48,116 Speaker 3: this is not a good moment. And so this cleaning 583 00:30:48,116 --> 00:30:50,876 Speaker 3: staff member would show up and say, I want to 584 00:30:50,916 --> 00:30:55,276 Speaker 3: thank you for getting sick. I have a car, I 585 00:30:55,316 --> 00:30:58,436 Speaker 3: have car payments to make. The more you get sick, 586 00:30:58,876 --> 00:31:01,476 Speaker 3: the more job security I have. And so you have 587 00:31:01,556 --> 00:31:04,436 Speaker 3: someone who's now laughing in the context of this awful 588 00:31:04,436 --> 00:31:08,396 Speaker 3: situation by this transformative set of moves done by someone 589 00:31:08,436 --> 00:31:12,116 Speaker 3: who has gotten any training and patient care or patient interaction, 590 00:31:12,196 --> 00:31:15,396 Speaker 3: but who has taken upon herself to think about, how 591 00:31:15,396 --> 00:31:17,476 Speaker 3: can I still do the clean up, still do the 592 00:31:17,516 --> 00:31:19,636 Speaker 3: work that's required of me, but do it in a 593 00:31:19,636 --> 00:31:22,756 Speaker 3: way that's transformative of the relationships that she has with 594 00:31:22,836 --> 00:31:23,436 Speaker 3: her patients. 595 00:31:23,876 --> 00:31:27,436 Speaker 1: Getting to know happy hospital cleaners convinced Amy that job 596 00:31:27,516 --> 00:31:31,196 Speaker 1: crafting can have a transformative effect on people's happiness at work. 597 00:31:32,156 --> 00:31:35,196 Speaker 1: She hypothesized that the third of Americans who feel engaged 598 00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:38,356 Speaker 1: with their jobs probably feel that way in part because 599 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:40,196 Speaker 1: they too jobft. 600 00:31:39,956 --> 00:31:41,716 Speaker 3: I think this happens all the time. It happens in 601 00:31:41,756 --> 00:31:44,196 Speaker 3: all kinds of jobs, but I think it's important to 602 00:31:44,196 --> 00:31:47,556 Speaker 3: recognize that it happens in jobs where people don't have 603 00:31:47,596 --> 00:31:49,876 Speaker 3: permission to do it, or they're not encouraged to do it. 604 00:31:50,156 --> 00:31:53,636 Speaker 3: They might actually be forbidden from doing it. We'd all 605 00:31:53,676 --> 00:31:56,196 Speaker 3: be better off if we just granted people more autonomy 606 00:31:56,476 --> 00:31:58,476 Speaker 3: to bring their strength into the work that they're doing, 607 00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:01,076 Speaker 3: while trusting them that they will keep in mind the 608 00:32:01,076 --> 00:32:04,196 Speaker 3: things that they're responsible to do for the organization. 609 00:32:04,996 --> 00:32:07,116 Speaker 1: Now that Amy has answered the question that's bugged her 610 00:32:07,156 --> 00:32:09,956 Speaker 1: for decades, her research has shift to address a more 611 00:32:09,956 --> 00:32:13,556 Speaker 1: practical question, how can we get more people to job craft? 612 00:32:13,996 --> 00:32:16,916 Speaker 3: Are there interventions that can be done that can help 613 00:32:16,956 --> 00:32:19,836 Speaker 3: people connect more deeply with what it is that makes 614 00:32:19,876 --> 00:32:22,716 Speaker 3: their work meaningful, not just by thinking about it, but 615 00:32:22,716 --> 00:32:25,996 Speaker 3: by encouraging people to redesign the job, still accomplish what 616 00:32:26,036 --> 00:32:28,596 Speaker 3: it is they're responsible to the organization for accomplishing in 617 00:32:28,636 --> 00:32:30,796 Speaker 3: the work, but do it in such a way that 618 00:32:30,956 --> 00:32:33,596 Speaker 3: it's tapping the things that they care most about in 619 00:32:33,636 --> 00:32:35,516 Speaker 3: the ways in which they most want to contribute. 620 00:32:35,716 --> 00:32:37,996 Speaker 1: It's worth mentioning here, though, that deciding to pep up 621 00:32:37,996 --> 00:32:40,356 Speaker 1: your job doesn't mean you can ignore the task as 622 00:32:40,356 --> 00:32:41,116 Speaker 1: you were hired to do. 623 00:32:41,396 --> 00:32:44,716 Speaker 3: Job crafting isn't deciding, you know, I'd really love to 624 00:32:44,716 --> 00:32:47,036 Speaker 3: be the company guitarist. So I'm just going to bring 625 00:32:47,076 --> 00:32:49,476 Speaker 3: my guitar in and play, and I think everybody will 626 00:32:49,476 --> 00:32:51,756 Speaker 3: appreciate that because I'm being my best, you know, my 627 00:32:52,116 --> 00:32:52,716 Speaker 3: best self. 628 00:32:52,876 --> 00:32:55,476 Speaker 1: The other barrier to crafting your job might be your boss. 629 00:32:56,236 --> 00:32:59,756 Speaker 1: Just like Adam Smith watching those pinmakers, your manager might 630 00:32:59,836 --> 00:33:02,556 Speaker 1: still fall for the lie that giving a big paycheck 631 00:33:02,836 --> 00:33:04,436 Speaker 1: is the only way to get the job done. 632 00:33:04,556 --> 00:33:08,516 Speaker 3: I sometimes hear from managers who feel very nervous about 633 00:33:08,516 --> 00:33:11,036 Speaker 3: this because it means giving up control. We can't possibly 634 00:33:11,076 --> 00:33:12,076 Speaker 3: allow our employees to do this. 635 00:33:12,116 --> 00:33:12,756 Speaker 4: It would be a mess. 636 00:33:12,796 --> 00:33:16,156 Speaker 3: You know, people would be you know, freestyling and off roading, 637 00:33:16,356 --> 00:33:18,796 Speaker 3: you know, doing things that would be really problematic in 638 00:33:18,836 --> 00:33:23,116 Speaker 3: the organization. And my response to that is, well, actually, 639 00:33:23,396 --> 00:33:25,516 Speaker 3: if this is how you see it, what I can 640 00:33:25,516 --> 00:33:28,436 Speaker 3: tell you is they're already job crafting because this is 641 00:33:28,436 --> 00:33:30,996 Speaker 3: happening everywhere. It's just that they're hiding it from you. 642 00:33:31,436 --> 00:33:33,396 Speaker 3: And so you have a choice. Is this something that 643 00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:35,956 Speaker 3: you want to help facilitate and encourage and what have you, 644 00:33:36,116 --> 00:33:38,236 Speaker 3: or you want to continue to sort of drive this 645 00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:41,476 Speaker 3: underground with employees who will still take the degrees of 646 00:33:41,516 --> 00:33:44,956 Speaker 3: freedom they can find to derive more meaning and more 647 00:33:45,236 --> 00:33:47,276 Speaker 3: of the kind of identity they want to enact in 648 00:33:47,316 --> 00:33:49,556 Speaker 3: the work in any way they can, and how they're 649 00:33:49,556 --> 00:33:50,196 Speaker 3: doing the work. 650 00:33:52,556 --> 00:33:54,916 Speaker 1: While I'm certainly not praying that my house gets infested 651 00:33:54,956 --> 00:33:59,036 Speaker 1: with rats, bats, or possums or mice, hornets, termites, or roaches, 652 00:33:59,596 --> 00:34:03,076 Speaker 1: I do enjoy Marty's in frequent visits. His job is 653 00:34:03,116 --> 00:34:05,556 Speaker 1: to set up traps and put down poison, but I 654 00:34:05,596 --> 00:34:07,836 Speaker 1: now realize that he does all the things that Amy 655 00:34:07,876 --> 00:34:11,436 Speaker 1: studies in her job crafting work. He genuinely enjoys the 656 00:34:11,476 --> 00:34:14,836 Speaker 1: puzzles that past spring. He concentrates on the people who 657 00:34:14,916 --> 00:34:17,596 Speaker 1: need his help, and he works quickly and calmly to 658 00:34:17,676 --> 00:34:22,516 Speaker 1: reassure his jittery clients. It's mixing metaphors, but if exterminators 659 00:34:22,516 --> 00:34:26,116 Speaker 1: had a bedside manner, Marty has perfected it. Sure he 660 00:34:26,196 --> 00:34:29,556 Speaker 1: kills bugs, but his real focus seems to be eradicating 661 00:34:29,556 --> 00:34:32,036 Speaker 1: the stress and worry of the people who need his help. 662 00:34:32,596 --> 00:34:35,236 Speaker 1: I asked Marty if during the forty years in this job, 663 00:34:35,316 --> 00:34:38,796 Speaker 1: he's ever daydreamed about doing something else, becoming a cop 664 00:34:38,956 --> 00:34:39,756 Speaker 1: or a firefighter. 665 00:34:39,756 --> 00:34:43,596 Speaker 4: Maybe I've thought about it in the past, honestly, but 666 00:34:43,796 --> 00:34:45,796 Speaker 4: I've always come back to this, and I do. Yeah, 667 00:34:45,836 --> 00:34:47,156 Speaker 4: I do feel grateful. 668 00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:50,436 Speaker 1: If you really hate your job, if it's making you ill, 669 00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:53,676 Speaker 1: or if there's a bad workplace culture or discrimination, or 670 00:34:53,676 --> 00:34:56,036 Speaker 1: if you're not even making a living wage, then you 671 00:34:56,076 --> 00:34:58,236 Speaker 1: should quit as soon as you can and search for 672 00:34:58,276 --> 00:35:01,516 Speaker 1: something better. But if you're simply feeling kind of disengaged 673 00:35:01,556 --> 00:35:04,316 Speaker 1: from your daily work, then give job crafting a try, 674 00:35:04,956 --> 00:35:08,236 Speaker 1: because that dream job that you fantasize about it doesn't 675 00:35:08,276 --> 00:35:11,796 Speaker 1: really exist. The research shows that any job can turn 676 00:35:11,796 --> 00:35:15,076 Speaker 1: into a calling if you bring the right attitude and 677 00:35:15,316 --> 00:35:18,316 Speaker 1: maybe a few science back tips from the Happiness Lab 678 00:35:18,596 --> 00:35:25,916 Speaker 1: with me Doctor Laurie Santos