1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to Steffan Never 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: Told You Production, iHeartRadio, and welcome back to part two 3 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: of our look into religious horror. We know it's after 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: Halloween as this comes out, but we always like talking 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: about horror and religion. 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: You know, we have to fall back and everything's dark 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: and sad. Might as well keep going into that darkness. 8 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: I did. I lit a candle, you know, to like 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: set the mood, and it exploded, like it went the 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: flame got really high. 11 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: Social did you say something three times? 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: No, I would never, but it freaked me out, Samantha, 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: It honestly freaked me out. And I have been watching 14 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: a lot of these religious horror movies to prepare for this. 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: I sse episodes. 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 3: I need a break. 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of them as mentioned. Yeah, so 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to part one, go back and 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: check that one out. We are just going over some 20 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: of the major themes of largely religious horror movies, and 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: specifically Western Christian religious horror movies. A lot of them Catholic. 22 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: But in the last episode we ended up talking about 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: marriage horror, and I said, you know, there's been a 24 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: lot of influx of movies around religion and grief and women. 25 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: And so that's where we're going to pick up now, 26 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: just with a very brief aside. I said, you know, 27 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: I want I wanted to do a whole horror movies 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: and mental health episode it it just became too big. 29 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: So this is just kind of a brief mention. But 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: there is this this thing that's been happening a lot. 31 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: It's not new, but that we've seen a lot lately 32 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: of the motherhoods and religion and grief thing and how 33 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: that plays out in a horror movie scenario. A lot 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: of movies about praying hard enough to bring your child 35 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: back to life. You mentioned bring her back on the 36 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: last episode. That is a very similar theme the others, 37 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: which was a movie I loved when I was young 38 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: with Nicole Kidman. 39 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: This is also one of those movies that I watched 40 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: four times, not realizing i'd watched it four times. Yeah, yeah, 41 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: I started like, I've never seen this. 42 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: Have seen this one? Yes, yes, but every time I 43 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: didn't know. I feel like when I watched that, and 44 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: I've watched it, I watched it at least within the 45 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: past four years, because I watched it during the pandemic. 46 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: I feel like when I watched that, I was so 47 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: young the first time, and I was reading a whole 48 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: paper about how religious it is because Nicole Kidsman character 49 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 1: is very religious and like has her children read these 50 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: Bible passages and it's just very strict and in it 51 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: her children are allergic to light, so it just has 52 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: to be dark all the time. And maybe you remember me, 53 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: I didn't recognize it, but like the whole like, let 54 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: there be light. The theme of the light always moving 55 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: is something big in the Bible. And then I just 56 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: was surprised there was so many things where like this 57 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: is from this part of the Bible, this is from 58 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: this part of the Bible, and just having them living 59 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: in the dark. What happens after death? As we mentioned, 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: that's a big reason that these movies are popular, I think, 61 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: and why they resonate is that we all are we 62 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: don't know what happens after death. But that was a 63 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: big theme in this movie Hereditary. Also, you've got a 64 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: loss of a kid and a cult thing happening, and 65 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: seeing the grief play out and the way that it 66 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: does and what it leads. 67 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: To the creation of Annabelle has that Oh yeah, very 68 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: four or fine beginnings. Seeing of the Death of the Child, 69 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: I was like, A, that's unnecessary. 70 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: I've seen that movie, but it's been a long time 71 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: so I don't remember. 72 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: But yeah, sometimes I have to sit and like connect 73 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: these because when they try to go backwards to connect 74 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: these movies and I'm like, I need to find all 75 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: the faults. I have to try to figure out what 76 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: they're doing because I'm like very confused about because they 77 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: took the conjuring and then split it off into like 78 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: five different things which included and a bell and then 79 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: also the nun all these things, and I'm. 80 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: Like, I don't know what's happening anymore. 81 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: Anyway, Annabel Creation, they do have a loss of a 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: child with a lot of religious play and possession in it. 83 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: Creepy yeah, oh yeah, indeed uh also creepy. Oh and 84 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: again I should say none of these are sponsors. Also 85 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: kind of like what we talked about in our recent 86 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: horror movie round up for me, uh, I always look 87 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: these up before you watch them, and that's especially true 88 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: for this one. A dark song. This one it's about 89 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: a woman whose child has died and she finds an 90 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: occultist and like remote England, and he has her go 91 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: through these like horrific things that he says bring her 92 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: child back, or bring the angel back, that can bring 93 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: her child back. And it's it's really gross because you 94 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: can't tell what he's just like making her do to 95 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: see what he can make her do versus what it's 96 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: actually true. It does have a really cool end scene, 97 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: I have to say, but yeah, it's it's that same 98 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: idea of like the grieving mother willing to do all 99 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: kinds of things to try to bring her child back. 100 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: I'm having memories of a movie as you talk about 101 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: this as well, like she was pregnant, goes on a walk, 102 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: loses a baby, gets stalked by something, and then there's 103 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: a box, a jewelry box, do you know what I'm 104 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: talking about. I feel like this is part of our 105 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: guessing game in my I watched this one movie but 106 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: and she's like about to be a mother, but I 107 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: think she loses the baby, but then she gets possessed. 108 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: And ends up having a demon. 109 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: Oh that does sound familiar, but could mean I've seen. 110 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: So many so yeah, so the movie I'm talking about 111 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 2: is malicious. I just looked it up, y'all, and it 112 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: doesn't have a great rating. But I do remember, like 113 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: she unleashes to go like a demon and it like 114 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: gets inside of her. Bit there's so many things happening 115 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: in this one, and I think it's a cyclical thing 116 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: because it kind of gets inherited to the next person 117 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: if I remember. 118 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: But it's a woman who loses her baby ends up 119 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: getting a demon instead willing to die for it and 120 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: willing to let everyone else die for it. There you go. 121 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: But yeah, grief like that. 122 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: We've talked about this continuously, Like how we've also talked 123 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: about this in like Scarlet Witch or where she's willing 124 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: to destroy the entire world and all of those around 125 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: them for her children that no longer exist. Like it's 126 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: kind of that same like a grief and loss is 127 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: that the women are allowing evil in order to do this. 128 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: Where does that go into the reproductive justice line? Who knows? 129 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to. Okay, So we did our episode 130 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: on the blair Witch Project and in it I mentioned 131 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: I had seen blair Witch too, but I couldn't remember it. 132 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: I rewatched it right before this, Samantha, and wow, what 133 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: a film. WHOA A lot going on there? But it 134 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: does have the loss of a child in it, and 135 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: that person is the one that's painted as the as 136 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: the villain. She is the one that's like basically they're like, 137 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: how did you kill that child? And it was very 138 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: like for a movie that was I was mostly laughing 139 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: aloud at I was like, oh, gosh, upsetting. 140 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: I think that's what it gets to some of these things, 141 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: like and why we're talking a little more about the 142 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: religious horror and how it like really does portray a 143 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: lot of mothers and women in general, Like. 144 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: It gets to the point that it's like, why are we. 145 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: Entertaining this tag like entertaining this subject line or entertaining 146 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: this plot line, because it's so disturbing on such a 147 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: level that you were like, this is demeaning in so 148 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,359 Speaker 2: many ways, and I'm not sure who was domaning anymore. 149 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, and the only reason I watched that movie 150 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: for I've watched it for this because it came up 151 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: in an article I read and they're like, you know, 152 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: it's actually fascinating because it's in the author's opinion, was 153 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: supposed to paint like how we villainized Heather from the 154 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: first movie which you and I both talked about. The 155 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: woman and it became here's how we villainized her. H 156 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: And they the reason also it comes up is they 157 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: were calling her a witch, and that is going we're 158 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: going to get more into witches in our religious horror 159 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: part in a second. But but they kept saying, you know, 160 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: she's the witch, and they just and that was the 161 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: main reason why. And it was just she could convince 162 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: them otherwise. And it's at least according to that article, 163 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: they thought it was interesting how everybody else was in 164 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: the end they think supposed to be in the villain 165 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: and she was the one that was. They killed her, 166 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: I mean. 167 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 3: Killed her, it happened. 168 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean that again, so many of these 169 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: things we're talking about you could extrapolate outside of religious horror. 170 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: But because in our country and a lot of other places, 171 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: when you're talking about birth or marriage or anything like that, 172 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: it does have a religious aspect and it has for 173 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: a long time. So this idea of mother's grieving, it's 174 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: often painted as sort of a failure on their part, 175 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: like they did something wrong and that is why. 176 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: They've allowed this spirit in or something. 177 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, they did not protect their children and they 178 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: were weak m h. Yeah, they they might have fled 179 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: the Demon. 180 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: Is exactly exactly, and like, I think it's interesting because 181 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: I was thinking about that with like loss and grief 182 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: in that about like single motherhood, because I'm like, you 183 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: know what a lot of these movies actually exemplify or 184 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: the absence of the father, like they travel all the time, 185 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: He's gone all the time, all these kind of narratives. 186 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 3: Some of the movies I was thinking about was like. 187 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 2: Bless the Child, which I've really loved that movie as 188 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: a kid. I'm not really sure why it wasn't super scary. 189 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: It wasn't super like you had this angelic and instead 190 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: of an Antichrist, because she could have been, she could 191 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: also be the Hope, the new like Jesus. It was 192 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: an interesting take on that. And yes, Catholicism is very 193 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: much involved in this one as well. 194 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 3: Rufus Seewell, I believe his name. 195 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: He was an evil guy in all so many movies 196 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: the holiday, including That's Christmas Time though we already talked 197 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: about that, but yeah, and then Baba Duck, which is 198 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: not necessarily religious, but like we were talking about previously, 199 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: not all of them are religious, but it does have 200 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: like that religious tone when it comes like demons. Like 201 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: the demons is a connotation that there's something evil, so 202 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: spirituality isn't there. But like you've got the single mother 203 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: with supposedly and a neurodiversent child who like kind of 204 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: helps perpetuate her stresses. And then you have like the 205 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 2: Curse of the Lalla Na. I had to look that 206 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: one up because it's based on motherhood and child loss 207 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: as well. Again, I believe it's also based on Catholicism 208 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: because that is also part of the conjuring world. 209 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: Right Ooh, I don't know, is it. 210 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: I think it might. 211 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: Director, yeah, but I think it might be. Somebody might 212 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: correct me again. The second conjuring we have the one 213 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 2: the Haunting in England, and she is a single mother 214 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: newly divorced. The kids are really upset, and the one 215 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: of the things they say in that movie is, oh, 216 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: you were open. 217 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 3: This type of tragedy opened you up to possession. 218 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm again, and. 219 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: Then you also have poultrygeist, which is not necessarily religious, 220 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: but it is. But she is a single mother that 221 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 2: does everything to get that child. It's been a long time. 222 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: That's just the trailers of that movie freaked me out. 223 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 3: And also all of the. 224 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: Bad vibes that happened on set onset, including the death 225 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: of one of the child stars. 226 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: I'm like, that movie is a no for me? 227 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: Was it too? I knew it was a young world 228 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: for sure, but now the other the older girl was murdered, 229 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: but they so they weren't divorced, but the dad was 230 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: away all the time. 231 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, like like she was kind of left alone with 232 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: the child as well as Carrie who the connotation was 233 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: maybe either she had her at a wedlock or she 234 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: was raped. 235 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 3: Like I could never understand the mother's hate for this child. 236 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 3: There's so much this, but you. 237 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: Have so many narratives of single motherhood, like as part 238 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: of the problem. Again, there are different points as it's 239 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 2: because they aren't able to fulfill the completion of family, 240 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: Like that's the conversation. So therefore the family is very vulnerable. 241 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: They do not have the perfect family or set up 242 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: or complete familyhood. Or is it that they're the most 243 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: likely to survive these scenarios. We have this conversation about 244 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: women outliving men. 245 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: Why I was leaving outliving their husbands and then having 246 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: like their actual second perk in life. But uh oh, 247 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: this means that. 248 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: You might be set up to be haunted and possessed, 249 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 2: or perhaps is it that men can come and save them, 250 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: so they have to have a prop up in order 251 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: to be saved by. 252 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 3: A man, which oftentimes doesn't happen. They just end up dying. 253 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: The men end up dying, is what I've seen. 254 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, are they coming too late? And it's like, yeah, 255 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: why are you even? 256 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: Why are you here if you're watching the none the 257 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: one priest the Eyes and the second one spoiler alert? 258 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: And I was like what without even making an appearance. 259 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just like he's dead. Oh sorry, I could 260 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: have really used his self all right, twelve. 261 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 3: I was like, okay. And by the way, the second 262 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: nun has a single mother as well, Oh yeah, it 263 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 3: does kind of the heroins to it. Mm hmm, but 264 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 3: there's still single mother in this plot, like who is 265 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 3: possibly going to be taken by evil spirit by the 266 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 3: man that she's interested in. 267 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: Row Well, see, okay, I don't want Darella's so very 268 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: quickly I watched The Nun and the Nun To last 269 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: night because you had mentioned that you did, and I 270 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: was like, I feel like I've seen them, but I 271 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: can't remember I had you had. 272 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: It's one of those for you. 273 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the second one, I was like, no, immediately, 274 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: I knew I'd seen that one for some reason. The 275 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: first one I don't know, but I had also recently 276 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: because it has been October and Halloween and I have 277 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: these YouTube series I watch that are just scary videos, 278 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: and had recently seen. We are going to get more 279 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: into the Conjuring later, but I had recently seen the video, 280 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: the first videotaped Extracism of Maurice, which is it the 281 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: thing exists, It exists, and it's like it looks exactly 282 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: like it in the movie. And I did not know 283 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: that the first time I saw the nun or the Conjuring, 284 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: but now that I've seen it, I was like, oh 285 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: my gosh. And so I was like, oh, that his 286 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: wife is there. You know. We'll get into this more later. 287 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: But she has her own what she says happened. But 288 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: according to her, she was never possessed. She was just 289 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: there helping him out. 290 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, okay, but she said that he was possessed. 291 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll according to her again, according to her. 292 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: Interesting, I didn't realize it was also based on that. 293 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, when I saw the video, I was like, Oh, 294 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,239 Speaker 1: that's immediately that is I've seen that. It looks exactly 295 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: like it. 296 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: Interesting. But anyway, so the second nun has a single mother. 297 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 3: I thought that was a yeah, so does he marry her? 298 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: Is that they're married, they're married, and oh she lived 299 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: long after they had the daughter. M I don't. I 300 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: don't remember that, but I just I think so. 301 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 3: But he had a stepdaughter or something. 302 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, that's definitely based on that thing. 303 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 3: Well again this universe. 304 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: Who knew that makes sense? 305 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: But I thought this was interesting because I did find 306 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: an article in this specific conversation. Now he's not necessarily 307 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 2: talking about religious horror, but he is talking about horror 308 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: and single mothers. So the article is titled mother, Oh Godmother, 309 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: Analyzing the Horror of Single Mothers in Contemporary Hollywood Horror 310 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: John Lewis, And this is uh. 311 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 3: He wrote for the University of Nottingham in the UK. 312 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,719 Speaker 2: You know, he writes, I argue that as single parents, 313 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: the life choices these women make, regardless of whether they 314 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 2: have never been married or married and divorced or married 315 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: and widowed, can be interpreted as catalysts for horror in 316 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: these films. By presenting the view with the horror of 317 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: an ineffectual or monstrous single parent mothers. However, I explore 318 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 2: the way in which these films also offer self consciously 319 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: critical explorations of patriarchy and the dominant ideologies that suppress 320 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: women as well as others who resist definitions within patriarchal frameworks. 321 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 2: So in his actual article he used comparing I believe 322 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 2: the Ring sixth Sense and Babba. 323 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: Duke other Ring. 324 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I do talk but it's not 325 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 3: necessarily religious. 326 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: It kind of is cultish, So I did we're not 327 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: talking much about Eastern because I did think about that 328 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: as well as like an Exuma, as well as The Wailing, 329 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 2: and as well as again the Ring. They do have 330 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: a horror level of religious Yeah, antics of like cultish 331 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: to things. 332 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: But again that's a digression that we're not getting into here, however, 333 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 3: because it's not Christian based. This is all very like 334 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: Eastern religious based. 335 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: Back into But I did find that interesting in his 336 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: conversation when he was comparing these like women who are 337 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: single motherhoods and everybody. He in the article talks specifically 338 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 2: about how, yes, the degradation of the conservative family because 339 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: these women are doing this alone and dare to survive 340 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: without a man present. Of course you have in the 341 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: sixth sense a man present, but kind of. 342 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, he's you know, halfway there. 343 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: She doesn't acknowledge him. So there's that. 344 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: But then we have like The Ring, you do have 345 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: a male character, but he is useless and soon dead. 346 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: Yeah A watch that too. 347 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 2: And you really don't have any male characters, and that 348 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 2: except the Bubba Duke. 349 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm assuming he's male. I don't know, maybe he is. 350 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: That's the whole point. 351 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: Well, and I won't go too much into this, but 352 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: it did cause quite a firestorm. As the recent movie 353 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: The Woman in the Yard. 354 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I have not watched that. 355 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: Well, essentially, there was kind of a tragedy in the 356 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: man of the family. The father was lost and a 357 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: woman is trying to raise her kids, and you have 358 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: this entity that is growing closer and closer, and it's 359 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: kind of an ambiguous ending, but I believe the viewers 360 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: meant to decide whether or not, because the woman in 361 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 1: the Yard is death, whether or not she takes her 362 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: own life or stays with her kids. And it calls 363 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: this whole thing of people being like well, and that 364 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: was one of the reasons I wanted to talk about 365 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: mental health and horror movies, but it's because it caused 366 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about that. But it also was like, 367 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: you know, this whole idea that it has been women 368 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: who stay strong and keep fighting, and this was if 369 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: you're saying what we think you're saying, that's kind of upsetting, 370 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of 371 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: back and forth about that movie. 372 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 2: So that's interesting, No, But I find I found this 373 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: conversation really intriguing in that why why do they need 374 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 2: so many single mothers or at least like absent father movies? 375 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 2: Is that it should be a connotation about men, but 376 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: instead it's this conversation that it seems that the women 377 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 2: fail or fall apart without men, and they allow for 378 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: again a weakness in this in this conversation, in this move, 379 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: I did think about that with like, if you look 380 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: at again Annabelle, the first one with the uh, I 381 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 2: guess her origins into the doll if you know, you know, 382 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: he's not not absent, but he's definitely not there. He's 383 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: not dead or gone, but he's definitely absent. A lot 384 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 2: a lot of the things that happened to her when 385 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: he's gone. Yeah, in her mother in her beginning in 386 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: Adventures in Motherhood Alfred Woodard, she comes in as kind 387 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 2: of a mentor has to sacrifice herself because she lost 388 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 2: a child. 389 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 3: As well as her husband. 390 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: Like, there's so many conversations in this level of like, Okay, 391 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: what is this narrative? Why does it have to be 392 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: that this weak link is the opening of all this 393 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 2: religious horror. Again, if you look at Catholicism, if you 394 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: look at religious Westerner religion in itself, the ideal is 395 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: and even the setup and when we talked about our 396 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: religious trauma is the completion of man woman unity, like, 397 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 2: which is completely absurd because it's like the Church is 398 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 2: not a woman. Jesus sure probably was a man and 399 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: God is neither. So but this Holy Trinity conversation of 400 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: the completion of family, this is what it is, the 401 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: marriage between a man and a woman. So without the man, 402 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: women will fall because women are the beginning of sin. 403 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: They are the weak link. And it's this kind of 404 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,239 Speaker 2: whole long prelude. But at the same time, and if 405 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: you look at this dude's article and agree, like they're 406 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: the ones that survive it, the ring goes into the 407 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 2: ring too, and she's like, ah, I know how to 408 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: get rid of this. 409 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 3: I'm gonna let someone else die. 410 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: She says, I'm not your freaking mother exact. 411 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: But you know that's kind of that level of like 412 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 2: they have to so maybe it is a fight against this. 413 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: But again it is that conversation of which way are 414 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: we looking at. 415 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 3: Single motherhood? 416 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, and another movie again, We're just gonna have to 417 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: come back and do a whole separate episode on Eastern 418 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: religious horror. But dark Water came up a lot in 419 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: that conversation too, because it's a lot about grief and 420 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: single motherhood and trying to raise this kid, and a 421 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of it is kind of a it feels like 422 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: a manifestation of a mental like depression or something like that. Like, right, 423 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: that's what a lot of the those horror movies do 424 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: is it makes you think like is this real or 425 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: is this? Is she okay? But that is a big 426 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: that is a big theme in all of this. Another 427 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: thing like this is a huge topic we're going to condense, 428 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: but cults and witches. 429 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: Actually be in this on episode because we were talking 430 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: about that, like there's too many, Yeah. 431 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: There are and we have talked about witches so much 432 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: in in media, in media specifically. Yeah, but when we're 433 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: talking about this religious horror episodes, I mean, yeah, it's 434 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: a ton, but I think some of the ones that 435 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: stood out to me. The Vitch, which we did do 436 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: an episode on Conjuring three specifically deals with witches. I 437 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: just watched what Oh yeah, we're going to get into 438 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: that in a second. Yes, the Other Land, which is 439 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: an older, kind of more obscure movie, but this was 440 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: a very like it was a cult movie about It 441 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: was a very feminist cult movie where all the women 442 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: started to realize that their male cult leader was maybe 443 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: not very good. Oh heretic. Oh my gosh. 444 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 3: I hadn't been ready for that one. 445 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: Okay, I think that I just want to say this, 446 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: This outline is just a lot of random thoughts that 447 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: we all had. We had, so I'm not sure why 448 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: I've put it here specifically, but I think it's because 449 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: in that movie, Hugh Grant's character believes religion, all of 450 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: every religion is a cult. Everything is your being brainwashed, 451 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: I guess. So it was sort of an interesting take 452 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: on this because I don't think that's a spoiler at 453 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: all if you watch the trailer. But he's the bad guy. 454 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: But he basically is trying to prove how smart he 455 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: is and how right he is, and is trying to 456 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: trick these two young Mormon girls who came to his door. 457 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: And he's not a good guy. He's just not a 458 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: good guy. And he's also a liar, and his. 459 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 3: Point give it away. 460 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: There are so many things in that movie where later 461 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: I read an article on it and was like, immediately, 462 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: his wallpaper should have told you. And I looked at it, 463 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, you're right. 464 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 3: These glasses immediately tell me he's the bad guy. 465 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's no good, he's no good. But I do 466 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that even in that case where he 467 00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: is a very strong atheist, like anti religion, it was 468 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: still about he was attacking women, I mean, and he 469 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: had been like because he thought they were stupid and 470 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: he thought they were easily manipulated. And so even in 471 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: that case, you have this idea that because even with witches, 472 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: it's you know, they're in the religious horror, since it's 473 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: usually that they are manipulated by the devil or they're 474 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: too weak to withstand evil. In the case of the 475 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: other lamb. It's that they're too weak to withstand this 476 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: man's charisma who's telling them what to do. And as 477 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: we've discussed, as I mentioned earlier, like this whole idea 478 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: of like the Blair Witch Project, you see this blaming 479 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: women thing happen over and over again in our society. 480 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Outside of horror movies, we have the burn the witch 481 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: blaming women idea. You can see our episode on Cassandra 482 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: for that, which was not Western Christianity but still relevant. 483 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: And I do Yeah, I don't need to remind anyone 484 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: who's listening to this show, but this is a real 485 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: thing that happened that left thousands of people around the 486 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: world and throughout history dead, mostly women. Of you're a witch. 487 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: You can't prove otherwise, we shall burn you alive. 488 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 3: If not, God will protect you exactly. 489 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: Oh oh, I won't get into it, but I just 490 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: saw this post on next door that my blood was boiling. 491 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: But basically it was like God will protect you. You don't 492 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: need to worry about it. 493 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 3: Like, okay, well tell me about snap bit. If it's 494 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 3: I'll punch the body. 495 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: It was that it was that anyway, you mentioned weapons, 496 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: So weapons is like one of the most popular horror 497 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: movies that came out this year. Not to spoil it 498 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: at all, but there is a character who is a woman. 499 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: These kids go missing and she is blame. 500 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: She is. 501 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: They graffiti witch on her car and just everybody we 502 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: see these kind of modern witch hunts in not every 503 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: like all kinds of things. And it's interesting. I read 504 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: a paper about religious horror. How it's interesting that, you know, 505 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: a lot of movies we talk about are very women 506 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: coming together to form a coven, and that's very positive. 507 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: But in religious horror, a lot of times the witch 508 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: is bad, which is bad, and that has been something 509 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: that we have seen historically, and that is this idea 510 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: that the witch deserves whatever comes. 511 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 3: By little children. 512 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: Spoilers, Yeah, I wasn't ready for that. 513 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 3: There was so many things I wasn't ready for in 514 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 3: that movie. We just let you know. 515 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: It's from the same people who did Barbarians. So yeah. Anyway, Also, 516 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, slash upsetting to me how men 517 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: have usurped this because I feel like women are still 518 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: getting to like blame the witch, burn the witch in 519 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: our very like modern era of sheese wrong, I don't 520 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: like her whatever, whereas men use it as like it's 521 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: just a witch hut, everybody's out to get me, when yeah, 522 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: you probably did do the thing man so and then 523 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: some yeah. So that's frustrating, but that is also that 524 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: has been a part of our religion and is a 525 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: big theme in religious horror. For another time. But I 526 00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: had a whole Star Wars aside I was going to 527 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: go into right here, but I'm just not going to 528 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: do it. This is already going pretty long. But I 529 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: will come back to that. Well, life day is coming up, 530 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: so maybe that will be my life day gift. Another 531 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: thing that we did talk about very briefly in a 532 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: Monday Mini when I was by myself because Samantha had 533 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: COVID is the idea of who gets possessed in these 534 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: movies possession horror. When you're talking about that again, when 535 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: you're talking about Western Christian religion, it's usually little girls. 536 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: Are women getting possessed for things like they dare to 537 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: use a Ouiji board, puberty, mental health, corrupted innocence, And 538 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: I have to say, like, again, I'm not religious, i 539 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: haven't been a long time, but it is a scary 540 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: idea that one day something could take over your body. 541 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: It also relates back to the loss of body autonomy 542 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: and reproductive for rights that we talked about in part one. 543 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 3: What is that movie with a mirror oculus? 544 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an intensive one with the mental health stuff, 545 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: with the we don't know what you can believe, the 546 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: Luigi board, and then like. 547 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that one was really flip flipped you out. 548 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: And then you also have no body autonomy because you 549 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 2: were like watching things happen that you did not know 550 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: you were doing. 551 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 552 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very very scary, and you know, in this 553 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: case it can also be a metaphor for sexual assault 554 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: as well. But it has for a long time been 555 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: something is wrong with these usually young girls, and it's demonic, 556 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: that's all it can be. And so who do you 557 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: bring in? Who do you call to save them? Usually 558 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: religious men who are allowed a position that women are 559 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: not women cannot be a priest or whatever it is. 560 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: So it's it's men who come in to save these 561 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: young girls, which I think is really interesting giving the 562 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: reality of the Catholic churches cover up of sexual abuse. 563 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: But also that they are powerful enough to be possessed 564 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 2: in kill things, but not powerful enough to like stop 565 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 2: right without the assists of a man. 566 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: Right, and the man like the idea of it's like 567 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: a man has to come in save this girl's innocence. 568 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: I don't again, I like these movies I have. I 569 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: underside the critiques. I think it's good that we have 570 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: them and know about them. But I do like these movies, right. 571 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: So some big examples of this are The Exiorcist, The 572 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: Last Exorcist, the taking of Deborah Logan Sinister, the Conjuring Stigmata, 573 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: which I'm going to get into that in a minute. 574 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: But there are some notable exceptions, so hereditary and paranormal activity. 575 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: That's where the demon prefers the male host, that the 576 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: demon thinks that the male host is superior to a women. 577 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: So those are sort of exceptions. So is Rosemary's Baby, 578 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: I guess. Notably, all of these movies don't explicitly deal 579 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: with Christianity. There are like signs and symbols sometimes, but 580 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: it's not really the focus. Even the non Satanist man 581 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,479 Speaker 1: in Rosemary's Baby hands Rosemary over to the Satanist after 582 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: she trusts him, implying men are the problem, not necessarily religion, 583 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: which is given the creator and what happened with that interesting. 584 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 3: Probably his own true story. 585 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 1: Something trying to work itself out. In the Exorcist, non 586 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: religious medical establishments don't believe Reagan, who's the young girl 587 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: who gets possessed, or her mother, and they perform incredibly 588 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: painful and invasive tests on them. So there's been a 589 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: lot of papers recently. We're just articles about how those move. 590 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: That movie is all. It's as much about demon possession 591 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: as it is about medical profession not believing women, because 592 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: that is really upsetting scenes in the whole thing where 593 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: nobody believes them. And then yeah, as mentioned, we're gonna 594 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: have to come back and do the kind of mental 595 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 1: health religion part outside of this, But that was also 596 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: I mean, like if you look at the Exorcist, they 597 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: were very much this is just a mental health issue. 598 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: This can't be like nobody, not even the religious people 599 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: didn't believe her, the medical professional people didn't believe her. 600 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: And that has been when we've been talking about grief 601 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. It's a big theme. I 602 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: also wanted to just mention seven, the movie seven, because 603 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: it uses the seven Deadly sins and I think like 604 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: a part of that film is also the kind of 605 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: famous what's in the box, like using women to insider 606 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: reaction to get these sins out of people. 607 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 2: I don't definitely use he like the character the villain 608 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 2: hated women, like the whole like raping of women with 609 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 2: a spear that was probably like I think God didn't 610 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 2: show it, but like the ideal of that as a punishment, 611 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 2: I was like, what the hell, Like the level that 612 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: they stretched in how they could torture women in these 613 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 2: types of movies, and also her being pregnant, It was 614 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 2: like they wanted to add all of the things to 615 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: make you know that how much he hated and despised women. 616 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 2: I don't not necessarily the writer, not necessarily the director 617 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: or all that, but like the storytelling was in that reference, 618 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 2: and not even the hero could help in this level. 619 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 2: And it feels like a lot of these where we 620 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 2: see possessions like that, it usually ends with some type 621 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 2: of horrific death or regret yep. 622 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: Yeap. 623 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 3: That is it is that catalyst of. 624 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 4: Like, yeah, even the good ones, you know, like like 625 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 4: we have to use this as a source of ache yep, 626 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 4: to see how horrifically we can punish women or marginalized 627 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 4: people in general. 628 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, And I mean in something like 629 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: the Anxious is like they both both men die trying 630 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: to save this child and then father Caros comes back 631 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: in the third one, which the third one is also 632 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: very scary and has it does have the threatening of 633 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: the daughter where the demon's trying to kill the daughter. 634 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: But but I mean, it is kind of usually a 635 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: violent death, and maybe it's like the man that's like 636 00:37:47,440 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: I found my faith and then dies that brings us 637 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: to religious superheroes. 638 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,479 Speaker 3: And then that religious superheroes here. 639 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: We yes, so I would say the Conjuring is probably 640 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: the biggest example, but the Exorcist is a big one, 641 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: and yes, bonus points if they're facing doubt about the 642 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: modernization of faith and realize that no Satan Israel oh. 643 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 2: So. 644 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: Professor of Religious Studies at Iowa State University, Hector Avalos 645 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: argues that while a lot of these religious horror films 646 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: may rely on popular religious tropes because they know that 647 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,240 Speaker 1: they scare us that we recognize them, other creators actually 648 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: believe them and use it as a tool. So here's 649 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 1: a quote about his thoughts from a Vice article called 650 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: why are so many horror films Christian Propaganda? And this 651 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: article is by Josiah hess Avlos points to twenty thirteen 652 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: is The Conjuring, the true story tale of Christian ghost 653 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: Hunters that has since developed a franchise of spinoffs, which 654 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: closes with text quoted from the real life ghost Hunter. 655 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: The film as based ram diabolical forces are formidable. These 656 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: forces are eternal, and they exist today. The fairy tale 657 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: is true. The devil exists, God exists, and for us 658 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: as people are very destiny hinges upon which one we 659 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: elect to follow. The article goes on to point out 660 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: that The Conjuring was specifically marketed towards faith based institutions. 661 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: I actually try to get into this because when I 662 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: was in China there were certain things that couldn't be shown, 663 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: and I remember religious movies were part of it. And 664 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: I tried to see if that's true now, because I 665 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: was curious if, like, you're right, did the Conjuring, because 666 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: that's a that's a I saw Iron Man two there 667 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: and after I walked out, I was like, that is 668 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 1: definitely not the movie that played in America. I don't 669 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: know what, but yeah, I was just curious. If listeners know, 670 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: please write in. But I thought that was interesting. I've 671 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: never really thought about it, and that article is specifically 672 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: taking issue with the true story part, not just with 673 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: this but with other religious horror movies that do this. 674 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: Because it is true that something, there is something that 675 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: happened that to imply like the whole thing is true 676 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: gives you the whole like oh, the one that there 677 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: must be a demon. 678 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 2: Then well, they're true love story that immeasurable. They cannot 679 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 2: be separated, they cannot all these things. I'm like, they 680 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,760 Speaker 2: are really pushing this narrative that they were the best 681 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: Christian couple because according to the news articles and like 682 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 2: background talk of people who knew them, that was not 683 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: who they were, this kind gentle loving, like perfect couple 684 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 2: with the perfect kids that I'm like, they're really using 685 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 2: that trope to say how amazing their marriage, Catholic marriage 686 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 2: is because not only are they like but they are 687 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 2: the perfect practicing Catholics as well as like the perfect 688 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 2: duo who she's behind her man, who lets him lead. 689 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, that whole like stereotype in that like I'm 690 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 2: the quiet head, but I'm behind my husband, pushing him 691 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 2: for to be the best man he can be. But 692 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,439 Speaker 2: he's the leader in our family. He speaks for us, 693 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 2: and he takes over and can be the only one 694 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 2: that talks these demons out. 695 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 696 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 3: It's a real interesting. 697 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 2: Propaganda of that level that I'm like, what that is 698 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 2: to the point that I'm like, this is making it 699 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 2: not believable. 700 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: Well, okay, here's my big here's my big spoiler alert. Okay, 701 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,399 Speaker 1: I watched I watched The Newest Conjuring, the Last One, 702 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: Last Rites, and I again, I really enjoy these movies. 703 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: I understand every critique. I'm like, yes, I get it. 704 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying sure, yeah, but I do enjoy them. 705 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: It could be because I was just raised in this. 706 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but uh so Last Rites has a 707 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: whole because they have a daughter, Judy, and it has 708 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: a whole scene about how she almost died when she 709 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: was born and she's living on borrowed time. I guess, 710 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: like this demon is coming for her. 711 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 3: They finally turned that like because they have they use 712 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 3: that kind. 713 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 2: Of like yeah, she's always in yeah. 714 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, their daughter has always kind of been in danger 715 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: and and and you know, in the end, their family 716 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: comes together and like faces their demons, shall we say, 717 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: but uh and she kind of gets possessed, going back 718 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 1: to actually, now that I think about it, yeah, kind of. 719 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 1: But it was interesting to me because at the end 720 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 1: it says thanks to Judy, so I guess had been 721 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 1: involved or it had signed off on this, but it 722 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: also has you know, they have the kind of yellow 723 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: text at the end, as we mentioned, and it said 724 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: something like Ed and Lorraine Warren, you know, we're very 725 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: controversial in what they did and their lives. But they 726 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: were and they said, you know, I don't know the 727 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: first or non ordained demon al like, they gave a 728 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: bunch of things. But I just thought it was interesting 729 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: that they had a note that was like, no, they 730 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 1: were very controversial. 731 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: We had to come back and address thise because now 732 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 2: all this is coming about, Yeah, do. 733 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 3: You like people being like we did not like them. 734 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 3: They used us like all yeah, they're. 735 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: Like again, like they're not necessarily true in that way, 736 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 1: but it is true that there are people behind the 737 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,319 Speaker 1: stories that they are telling, and who knows how they 738 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: were treated or their story was told, or how they 739 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: were manipulated. I don't know, I have no idea, but 740 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: the idea that it's like a true story will make 741 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: you think, ah, yes, okay. 742 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 2: Well that's the perfect ending that happened with the Conjuring 743 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 2: two when the little girl saying, y'all are my best 744 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 2: friends and you believe me, And then later on the 745 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 2: little girls like, hey, no, this is not what happened. 746 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 2: They used us, They did not listen to me. They like, 747 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 2: I'm like whoa, And then her life was not great. Yeah, 748 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 2: after the fact, and like, like the history with that 749 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 2: family was not pretty. Like they would do a lot 750 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,959 Speaker 2: of rough things after the fact, and like they got 751 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 2: made fun of and they got ridiculed after they left, 752 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 2: Like Lorraine Warren and the Warrens did fine doing their 753 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 2: own thing, but they never got any you know, not 754 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 2: that they're they're indebted to them or any way, but 755 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 2: like things were not going great for them, and according 756 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 2: to some of the stories, they're like, yeah, we were 757 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 2: not close. 758 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know, Okay. The interesting thing about this 759 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: is I stumbled upon what I thought was a horror movie, 760 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 1: but it was a BBC news story and it was 761 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,879 Speaker 1: it was like a kind of modern day I think 762 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: it was an eighties or something World of the World's 763 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: where they did like a Halloween broad cast where they 764 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: were pretending that they had stumbled upon this ghost in 765 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 1: this house or this possession of this house. When I 766 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: was watching it, I was like, this is the Conjuring too. 767 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: This is exactly the story of the Conjuring Too. And 768 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,799 Speaker 1: I got I looked it up and they were like, yeah, 769 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: that's where it came from. Yeah, oh okay, but apparently 770 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:26,439 Speaker 1: it scared everybody that's this is real, which is kind 771 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,839 Speaker 1: of what we're talking about here right right. 772 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 2: I mean, it is interesting again, like when you see 773 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 2: these superheroes bigger than life, and again they're portrayed by 774 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 2: someone as great as the two actors that play that, 775 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 2: Patrick Wilson. He's kind of noted as being thus far 776 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 2: a good man, like, supportive of his wife, been faithful, like, 777 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 2: even with him becoming famous in these roles as being 778 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 2: like the super dad, the superfather, the super husband, like, 779 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,799 Speaker 2: he seems to be this endearing guy. So everybody really 780 00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 2: latched onto him being this Warren. 781 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 3: Character as well. 782 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,800 Speaker 2: And it is interesting that you have that narrative because 783 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 2: they make sure to play this up because the way 784 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 2: Conjuring is as successful as this is the true the 785 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 2: based on true story type of conversation is the director 786 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 2: who came in immediately was like, we're going to do 787 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 2: these new jumps, these new scarers, these possessions, this collapse, 788 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 2: the random child running from room room, which he loves 789 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 2: to do, by the way, ball rolling random. 790 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, random kid giggling, stop that anyway. 791 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 2: But with all of that, but you have this narrative 792 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 2: of this power couple who are superheroes of the Catholic 793 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,879 Speaker 2: world who's figured out this demon thing. 794 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I was thinking about this. I'm not 795 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: really sure how to articulate it well, but I was 796 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: thinking about it when I was watching the second one, particularly. 797 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: A lot of times they involve like the Warrens come 798 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: in to a family that is going to pain, struggle whatever, 799 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: and kind of you know, fixing things around the house, 800 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: making breakfast, like all of. 801 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 3: These things the follow a figure exactly. 802 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: And I was thinking about how when I was a kid, 803 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: I used to get like a little kid crushes that 804 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: didn't mean anything, but I would get kid crushes on 805 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,320 Speaker 1: like a teacher who would do that or a doctor 806 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: who would do that. And so it makes sense to 807 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 1: me that when people watch this, you see this couple 808 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: that seems really loving and know each other so well, 809 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: and then you see them caring for these other families 810 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: and being like, you know, I wish I had somebody 811 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,360 Speaker 1: that would come into my life and would be like, 812 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,399 Speaker 1: you know what, let me make you breakfast and let 813 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 1: me fix your your piping. I can do that right. 814 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:51,480 Speaker 3: Well. 815 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 2: Again, like he brings in safety. They brought in safety 816 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 2: somehow it's built like when they had that scene with 817 00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 2: the breakfast, it's like it's not felt this warm or 818 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,720 Speaker 2: like home in a long time. 819 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 3: Or when he. 820 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,240 Speaker 2: Plays a song to remember the father who loved music 821 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 2: and they hadn't had that home in a long time. 822 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 2: But he brings in that safety because once again, when 823 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 2: we talk about completion of family, there must be a 824 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 2: father who was present. And even in the first conjuring, 825 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 2: he's gone a lot at the beginning because he's a 826 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 2: truck of providing for the family. 827 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And it's also I would say, here comes 828 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: this they're not technically part of the Catholic Church, but 829 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,880 Speaker 1: they're part of the Catholic Church. They come in and 830 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: they give you this a here a belief safety Like 831 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: in the first one. I always remember so clearly when 832 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: he's like your children aren't baptized, like you know, it's 833 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 1: just like this idea of the church will bring you 834 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: this right comfort and this safety from this darkness that 835 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: you can't explain, can't get rid of. Don't know what 836 00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: it is, probably a witch or a demon or both. 837 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,880 Speaker 1: The first one kind of famously both. 838 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:08,720 Speaker 3: A wish who turned into a demon. 839 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: Yep, yep, exactly exactly, And so I also wanted to 840 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,240 Speaker 1: mention this. I have not seen the second Black Phone movie. 841 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,400 Speaker 1: I saw the first one, and I've seen Sinister, and 842 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,200 Speaker 1: they're done by the same folks and writer. See, Robert 843 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: Cargill told Polygon the minute in audience sits down for 844 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: a horror movie, everybody in that audience is Christian. If 845 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,720 Speaker 1: there's a demon in the movie, everyone's immediately like, yes, 846 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,879 Speaker 1: reading from the Bible can chase it away. Yes, Hell 847 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: is a real place. Yes, of course the devil can 848 00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,280 Speaker 1: impregnate a woman. You can have a child of the devil. 849 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: That makes total sense. And then they get up and 850 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,280 Speaker 1: leave it all there in the movie theater. It doesn't 851 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: matter what religion you are when you sit down for horror. 852 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 1: Christianity is baked into our horror to the point where 853 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: people understand and acknowledge the rules. So we knew we 854 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,840 Speaker 1: could just say it out loud. So I thought This 855 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,799 Speaker 1: was really interesting because the people involved in these movies 856 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: are religious and they've said that they are. But I 857 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,440 Speaker 1: also think it's interesting that he said, like, you can 858 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: sit down watch that movie and then leave it, but 859 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: like you kind of know because it is we do 860 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,320 Speaker 1: recognize those things. But the whole article was interesting because 861 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,880 Speaker 1: at least according to this, they were very this is 862 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,719 Speaker 1: what we believe. But if you just sit down, watch 863 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,480 Speaker 1: this movie and then leave, that's okay with us. 864 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,440 Speaker 3: Like you do you? 865 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do. I'm sure there's probably more I could 866 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: dig into it. I didn't. I guess now that I 867 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,359 Speaker 1: think back on it, Sinister, I had already clocked as 868 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: being something I might talk about in this outline, but 869 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: the black Phone I hadn't really, And now that I 870 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,439 Speaker 1: think about it, I'm like, okay, yeah, because it's very 871 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,879 Speaker 1: like Heaven and Hell. 872 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,319 Speaker 3: Semester. I'm trying to remember. I just thought that was 873 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:53,240 Speaker 3: a lot about family. 874 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: It is. It's kind of like Culty family thing gone wrong, 875 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,800 Speaker 1: where he's spending more time trying to write his book 876 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: and look into these things and his family goes Yeah, 877 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: it goes off the rails. Shall we say? That movie 878 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: is frequently in the like top five spots of scariest 879 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:17,919 Speaker 1: movies of all time. 880 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:19,320 Speaker 3: So I can't remember it. 881 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 2: I've seen it twice, and every time I watched it, 882 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,439 Speaker 2: I was like, again, I've seen this one. 883 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well they usually measure that by heartbeat, 884 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,520 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of things can do heartbeat. 885 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,879 Speaker 3: Too much slushies, yeah. 886 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,440 Speaker 1: Literally eating too much could do it to you. So 887 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, Okay, so again we're gonna have to 888 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: come back to non Western religious movies. But I did 889 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: want to include here the flip of when the religious 890 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:57,120 Speaker 1: person is bad, those exit, those do exist, The Last Extracism, 891 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,880 Speaker 1: the Sacrament, Stigmata, Saint Mont, The Last of Us, Yes, 892 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,480 Speaker 1: and Martyrs, just the whole movie. So this is a 893 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: French film that was created by Pascal Lanier who was 894 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 1: experiencing a depression. He was experiencing depression and suicidality at 895 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 1: the time he wrote it and was inspired by Catholicism 896 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:26,200 Speaker 1: and sainthood. Very basically, the film involves a group of 897 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: people who torture women to get the secrets of the afterlife, 898 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: and they call these women martyrs because of their suffering. 899 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: Only it never works and they've only created victims Lanier 900 00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,359 Speaker 1: has said he wanted the audience to feel and bear 901 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,799 Speaker 1: witness to real pain, like they actually put the definition. 902 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: I've watched this movie. They put the definition of martyrs 903 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,320 Speaker 1: on there, and it's like to bear witness and quote 904 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: share it as part of an honest process of communion. 905 00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: It was a very Catholic process. I have a very 906 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: Catholic mind. 907 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:04,359 Speaker 3: Has had a lot of us. 908 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: It has, and I just I'm not going to go 909 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,440 Speaker 1: into it, but I'm just gonna say that this movie 910 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,920 Speaker 1: is incredibly upsetting and has been banned. 911 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 3: In a lot of places. 912 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: It started this whole thing in France where they're like 913 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,520 Speaker 1: censorship or what what are we doing? But yeah, I 914 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,719 Speaker 1: Stigmata I want to go into very briefly too. 915 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 3: I don't remember that was a big deal. People were upset. 916 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,799 Speaker 1: People were upset. So in that movie, which Eves and 917 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 1: I bonded over one time, it's a classic my news, 918 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So in this movie, Patricia Arcat's character 919 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:51,240 Speaker 1: is we assume getting possessed, I guess, but she's getting 920 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: like stigmata, which is you know, the marks on your 921 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,840 Speaker 1: back and the blood where the nails have gone through, 922 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 1: just like Christ went through but at the end it 923 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: turns out it was the Catholic Church. That somebody at 924 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,640 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church was doing this because they had discovered 925 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,600 Speaker 1: that there was an an unreleased part of the Bible 926 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 1: that said, yeah, that said essentially like, you don't have 927 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: to come to the church to worship me. You don't 928 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,719 Speaker 1: have to you can do it wherever. And so they 929 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,320 Speaker 1: were so scared that people would stop coming to church 930 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: and would stop would stop giving them power, that they 931 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,200 Speaker 1: were trying to destroy it. But it all comes out 932 00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: at the end. And I loved that movie as a kid. 933 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,359 Speaker 1: I thought it was really powerful. I was like, oh, 934 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:40,600 Speaker 1: I don't have to go to church, mom. If you 935 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,880 Speaker 1: see Stigmata, we. 936 00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,360 Speaker 2: Were really calling the religions because like bless the Child 937 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,040 Speaker 2: was a Catholic, like the good to evil, to evil 938 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 2: to good to who did this? 939 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:56,480 Speaker 3: It was definitely pro Catholic, by the way, But those 940 00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 3: kind of. 941 00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,319 Speaker 2: Movies, it really does make you feel like, yeah, this 942 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:07,280 Speaker 2: this makes sense, This is the correct theory, right. 943 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,120 Speaker 1: And to be honest, like looking back, I've watched stigmaa 944 00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,359 Speaker 1: within the past couple of years and I was like, oh, 945 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,960 Speaker 1: it's not as good as I remember, But I did 946 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: it's probably like huge as a kid because she's like 947 00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,280 Speaker 1: levitating and she's using this voice. It's like, you don't 948 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: have to go like it's just a I remember it clearly. 949 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:30,600 Speaker 1: It really stuck with me. 950 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 2: Did you go tell your mom that, yeah, this is 951 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,920 Speaker 2: probably while all the capital that we know it is 952 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 2: not a good movie. 953 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,319 Speaker 1: No, they did not like it at all. They did 954 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:41,200 Speaker 1: not like it at all. 955 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 2: I remember because I kind of portrayed her as being 956 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,239 Speaker 2: like a christ figure, and a woman being portrayed as 957 00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 2: Christ figure is a huge no. 958 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 3: No. This is during the time also Madonna try to. 959 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:58,160 Speaker 2: Make out with a christ figure, so all of the. 960 00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:01,360 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Well, also 961 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:05,520 Speaker 1: something that a lot of very religious people don't find, okay, 962 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,840 Speaker 1: the flip of when the witch or the non Christian 963 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,120 Speaker 1: religious person is good. I think there are a lot 964 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:18,920 Speaker 1: of examples of that, but they're not as mainstream. I 965 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,239 Speaker 1: think like there's some I was thinking of where I 966 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,520 Speaker 1: actually couldn't say for sure that they weren't Christian. I 967 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,360 Speaker 1: just always assumed they weren't, and then I had to 968 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: kind of examine some things. But like I was going 969 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,480 Speaker 1: to say, paranormal activity too, when she's the person who 970 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: was their housekeeper was kind of saging their house and 971 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,680 Speaker 1: they fired her because they thought she was doing that 972 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: creepy witch stuff. But I actually don't know. Maybe that 973 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:49,840 Speaker 1: is part of how she how she goes about cathosm. 974 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, so I can't say for sure, but 975 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, examples like that. Another thing that we have 976 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,200 Speaker 1: talked about a lot when it comes to religion is 977 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:02,200 Speaker 1: shame and religious horror. There is a lot of that 978 00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: going on. I think we're already going pretty long, so 979 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,240 Speaker 1: we can't go into this too much. But like Carrie 980 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,759 Speaker 1: is a big one which I still have not seen. 981 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,279 Speaker 1: I've seen the Carrie Carrie too. 982 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 3: Why have you not seen this? 983 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, but I've seen Carrie 984 00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,440 Speaker 1: too this month. Okay, I'm actually still in my Halloween. 985 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,440 Speaker 1: I didn't finish this month. Okay, Well, but that's a 986 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,400 Speaker 1: big one of like she gets You'll have to correct 987 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:35,919 Speaker 1: me I'm wrong because I've seen it. But she gets 988 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,200 Speaker 1: her period right, And. 989 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 2: There's so much shame in this level of like if 990 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,280 Speaker 2: you've got your period, that means that you are being 991 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,439 Speaker 2: sexual active. There's so many like negativity to this and again, 992 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,000 Speaker 2: I think this has everything to do with like the 993 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,520 Speaker 2: mother's trauma possibly being raped, which is the indication that 994 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 2: could be wrong. 995 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,440 Speaker 3: Also like her being. 996 00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,120 Speaker 2: Not knowing what this is, so the shame, like she 997 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,680 Speaker 2: thinks she's dying, So there's the embarrassing with a shame 998 00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,920 Speaker 2: that comes along with that. 999 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:05,920 Speaker 3: In so much of this and just. 1000 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,360 Speaker 2: Like good Old Boy but being ostracized because your mother 1001 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,760 Speaker 2: was so afraid of you learning too much. 1002 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,040 Speaker 1: And her mother was really religious, right. 1003 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,920 Speaker 3: Super religious, and she was all about abstinence. Oh conversation 1004 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:19,720 Speaker 3: about abstinence. 1005 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,360 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Yeah, Going back to the Bitch, which we 1006 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 1: do have a full episode on, that one was very 1007 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:33,560 Speaker 1: much the main character. Thompson was coming into puberty and 1008 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:39,440 Speaker 1: her sexuality, and both everybody and her family blamed her 1009 00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,920 Speaker 1: for it, especially like the younger twins who were creepy. 1010 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,760 Speaker 1: Maybe not as much, they were just too weird. 1011 00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,400 Speaker 3: They were the witch right though, because they were talking 1012 00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:48,960 Speaker 3: to Black Coop. 1013 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,440 Speaker 1: They were the ones talking to Black Philip. 1014 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 2: Yeah the whole time, and knew Black Philip and the 1015 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,840 Speaker 2: Black Philip came to life. 1016 00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,520 Speaker 1: For anyone who hasn't seen this movie, this might sound strange, 1017 00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 1: but yeah, but everybody else in her family, like her 1018 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,000 Speaker 1: little brother's kind of like checking her out. And then 1019 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:13,040 Speaker 1: her mom blames her for I guess distracting her dad 1020 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: and maybe he's checking her out. No, she blames her 1021 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,720 Speaker 1: for the death that stealing the death of the baby, 1022 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,520 Speaker 1: but also stealing the like precious airly and that her 1023 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:24,600 Speaker 1: father had sold. 1024 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,600 Speaker 3: It kind of comes up with begins with the baby. 1025 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,760 Speaker 1: Yes, well, and that's an interesting movie because I was 1026 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,280 Speaker 1: reading in preparation for this kind of some different takes 1027 00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 1: on it, because some people were, like, like I said earlier, 1028 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of these religious horror movies, the witch 1029 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:46,680 Speaker 1: is evil. This is an interesting case because the witches 1030 00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:54,520 Speaker 1: do kill that baby. But also at the end, you 1031 00:59:54,720 --> 01:00:01,840 Speaker 1: understand why she chooses. I guess kind of she came. 1032 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,320 Speaker 3: She's been yeah, like what she has to do to survive. 1033 01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,640 Speaker 3: So she's like, if I'm going to be accused of this, might. 1034 01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 1: As well Yeah exactly before Yeah. 1035 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,080 Speaker 3: That's what she says. But like it is interesting because also. 1036 01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 2: They also killed the young kid, the boy, the younger brother, yes, 1037 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,720 Speaker 2: and in the two kids yeah. 1038 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that's a that's a it's an interesting case. 1039 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:28,880 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it that much. 1040 01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:34,600 Speaker 2: This, Yeah, a conversation of like the desirability of young 1041 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,320 Speaker 2: women in this like they did the witches and black 1042 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,720 Speaker 2: Philip did everything to get to her yep. 1043 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,920 Speaker 1: And the baby was they were rubbing it on their 1044 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,240 Speaker 1: skin as if you were going to get younger from they're. 1045 01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:47,200 Speaker 3: Going to have that younger. 1046 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,840 Speaker 2: Also, maybe the jealousy is that the child was being 1047 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,680 Speaker 2: raised by the younger daughter instead of the mother and 1048 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,320 Speaker 2: would do a better job. But then like there's so 1049 01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,040 Speaker 2: many ideals to who is who would were place the family, 1050 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,840 Speaker 2: Like who becomes the main family member go to in 1051 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 2: the matriarch, it would be the younger woman mm hmmm. 1052 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was very much that was happening during 1053 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:17,280 Speaker 1: the like Salem which trials period, and they were so 1054 01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,320 Speaker 1: their father figure was so puritanical, they got kicked out 1055 01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:28,080 Speaker 1: of a religious settlement. So she had internalized a lot, 1056 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff. This brings us to my 1057 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,360 Speaker 1: one of the final points. I just want to talk 1058 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,480 Speaker 1: about this. I'm so sorry, get up, okay, because we 1059 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,640 Speaker 1: were talking. It was Halloween when we were discussing this, 1060 01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,840 Speaker 1: and I just had this memory of getting tricked into 1061 01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,840 Speaker 1: going into a religious haunted house. And they are sometimes 1062 01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,960 Speaker 1: called judgment houses or hell houses hell houses, and I 1063 01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,520 Speaker 1: wanted to know more about them because I feel like 1064 01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:14,120 Speaker 1: this relates. This is like a religious horror pipeline. So 1065 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,720 Speaker 1: these were first popularized in the nineteen seventies. And I 1066 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,400 Speaker 1: want to read this abbreviated quote. It is abbreviated from 1067 01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,320 Speaker 1: Sacred Matters magazine about what these things are about? If 1068 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:30,520 Speaker 1: you've never been to one? Okay quote. In practice, my 1069 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,240 Speaker 1: house was mostly episodic, distilling the complexity of teenage life 1070 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,240 Speaker 1: into a series of impressionistic caricatures. A naive group of 1071 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,120 Speaker 1: children dabbled in the occult by playing with a wigi board. 1072 01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,320 Speaker 1: An unwent couple got a little handsy, while boys to 1073 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,680 Speaker 1: men played in the background, A golf kid with a 1074 01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:53,320 Speaker 1: chain wallet smoked weed, and most vividly, the two climactic 1075 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,480 Speaker 1: scenes representing characters the abortion girl and the suicide girl 1076 01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,080 Speaker 1: both died, and the extreom they were in hell, where 1077 01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,440 Speaker 1: death metal was blaring out of large speakers suspended from 1078 01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,440 Speaker 1: the ceiling. The gendering of the wages of sin did 1079 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,120 Speaker 1: not occur to me until much later, but the primary 1080 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: bodies being judged in judgment houses belonged to women in 1081 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,800 Speaker 1: the final room, my name was displayed on a TV 1082 01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,360 Speaker 1: set along with the names of those in my group. 1083 01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,400 Speaker 1: I think it was supposed to be an obituary. At 1084 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,480 Speaker 1: any rate. The guy told us we had to make 1085 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,240 Speaker 1: a choice. The door on the left would take us 1086 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,520 Speaker 1: to Heaven, the one on the right to Hell and retrospect. 1087 01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,240 Speaker 1: Of course, I wish I had chosen Hell. I later 1088 01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,960 Speaker 1: heard a rumor that those who picked Hell were given fruit, punch, 1089 01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:42,680 Speaker 1: and cookies. Opting for Heaven, my reward was to sit 1090 01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:48,040 Speaker 1: at a table with one of the deacons of the church. Okay, 1091 01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,680 Speaker 1: so I did go to one of these. Before I 1092 01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,480 Speaker 1: get into it. This was a quote from John David 1093 01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:57,240 Speaker 1: Pennaman in conversation with a Kelly J. Baker. Mine was 1094 01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,080 Speaker 1: much more boring than what this sounds like. I I 1095 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:04,160 Speaker 1: went into a room and they just read as they did. 1096 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,160 Speaker 1: They did do the like, don't do drugs, don't have sex, kids, 1097 01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,400 Speaker 1: re enactment things, but they mostly just read from the Bible, 1098 01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,160 Speaker 1: and it was super bor. 1099 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:19,280 Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember if I've been to one, because 1100 01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,720 Speaker 3: I feel like I have, like I have a picture. 1101 01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,240 Speaker 2: Of me going into one, but I have no recollection 1102 01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,560 Speaker 2: because it would have been when I was a missionary, 1103 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,360 Speaker 2: so it didn't make sense that I would have gone 1104 01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,600 Speaker 2: to one. I would have been a part of one, 1105 01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,720 Speaker 2: which is really horrifying itself. But I don't think so 1106 01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:38,960 Speaker 2: maybe that's why I don't remember. 1107 01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:40,480 Speaker 3: Maybe I was a part of it, which makes me 1108 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,520 Speaker 3: really sad, and I'm so sorry to any of the 1109 01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 3: kids if I was there, but I really don't remember. 1110 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:50,320 Speaker 2: But I feel like because there was definitely this push, 1111 01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:54,480 Speaker 2: So the nineties really felt like broad about this whole 1112 01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 2: relevant conversation, like even to the point that there is 1113 01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,040 Speaker 2: still I think the beginning publishing of a Christian magazine 1114 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:05,080 Speaker 2: called Relevant Magazine, and it's supposed to replicate like Paste 1115 01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:10,240 Speaker 2: magazine or Rolling Stones magazine, but for Christian okay, but 1116 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,000 Speaker 2: in this level like trying to connect with the youth. 1117 01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,760 Speaker 2: And this is also the big youth movements that we've 1118 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:21,560 Speaker 2: talked about since then, like so many things, yeah, that 1119 01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,560 Speaker 2: have given me pause and a lot of second first 1120 01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:28,200 Speaker 2: hand in second hand embarrassment, but all those things that 1121 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,360 Speaker 2: this was a big thing, like we were going to 1122 01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,640 Speaker 2: do this. This also came about that the them and 1123 01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,120 Speaker 2: I know you're gonna talk about a minute trunk or 1124 01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,280 Speaker 2: treat like this was around the same time, but I 1125 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:42,040 Speaker 2: do remember like they did everything they could to try 1126 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,000 Speaker 2: and to scare you, and at this by this point, 1127 01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,480 Speaker 2: I believe it slowly started kind of fading away because 1128 01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,920 Speaker 2: we realized, oh, this is not gonna work. We're gonna 1129 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,520 Speaker 2: have to do something that makes it fun. 1130 01:05:53,680 --> 01:06:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well they have tried a lot of things, 1131 01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:04,560 Speaker 1: and some of them have been very very successful. 1132 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,160 Speaker 3: Gelling people to thinking they were going to hell, and 1133 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,800 Speaker 3: that all you have to do is say a prayer. Yes, 1134 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:09,840 Speaker 3: that definitely works. 1135 01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 1: Yes, and also just to I don't know, maybe he 1136 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:15,840 Speaker 1: gave you some solace, Samantha. A lot of people who 1137 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,360 Speaker 1: worked at these places have said they really really deeply 1138 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,600 Speaker 1: regret it, but they were young and didn't know it. 1139 01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:26,320 Speaker 3: Like the full of waste man, Yeah, so much. I cringe. Yeah, 1140 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:27,160 Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. 1141 01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:28,960 Speaker 1: Well, we have a quote from somebody in here who 1142 01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,640 Speaker 1: worked at one who is now like I cannot, I'm 1143 01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,480 Speaker 1: so sorry, and it says like it gives him trauma 1144 01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:39,600 Speaker 1: to remember it. So here's a quote from our old employer, 1145 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:43,800 Speaker 1: house Stuff Works by Chris Opfer, about a Texas health 1146 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:44,960 Speaker 1: house that we're going to be talking about. This is 1147 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,480 Speaker 1: one of the biggest ones on the scene. Quote. Continue 1148 01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,160 Speaker 1: walking through the maze of scenes, and you'll eventually get 1149 01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,160 Speaker 1: a heavy dose of the destruction that the megachurch says 1150 01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:57,560 Speaker 1: comes with being outed as gay, having pre marital sex. 1151 01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:01,600 Speaker 1: Are tipping the bottle back before the legal And then 1152 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,080 Speaker 1: here is a quote from a Vice article by the 1153 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,960 Speaker 1: same Josiah Hess mentioned previously about the same Texas hellhouse. 1154 01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,840 Speaker 1: There were angry Trump supporters shouting to our left and 1155 01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,919 Speaker 1: enraged Black Lives Matters protesters on our right. A SNY 1156 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,280 Speaker 1: demon slithered from one side to the other, proudly exclaiming, 1157 01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,440 Speaker 1: welcome to my world, where anyone different from you as 1158 01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,720 Speaker 1: a threat, where evil grows and hatred runs deep. It's 1159 01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,560 Speaker 1: one of my oldest and most successful tactics. Smiling through 1160 01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,480 Speaker 1: ominous goth makeup, the demon whispered in the ears of 1161 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,680 Speaker 1: each protester, planting racist slurs and stirring up divisions. The 1162 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,760 Speaker 1: verbal combat was punctuated by the sound of an exploding 1163 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,120 Speaker 1: handgun fired by a Trump supporter into the chest of 1164 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:48,680 Speaker 1: a b LM activist, who collapsed to the ground dead. 1165 01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:55,400 Speaker 1: This is traumatic, okay. According to the same article, the 1166 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,840 Speaker 1: Trinity Church hell house became one of the most notorious 1167 01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:03,880 Speaker 1: when in nineteen it recreated the Columbine School shooting, a 1168 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,480 Speaker 1: mere six months after it happened, portraying the killers as 1169 01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: agents of Satan, aiming to slaughter all the Christian students. 1170 01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,040 Speaker 1: And yes, one of the old lines were called by 1171 01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:18,559 Speaker 1: an actor quote, I have deceived this girl first, getting 1172 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,800 Speaker 1: her hooked on Harry Potter, magic, the gathering, and dungeons 1173 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:22,600 Speaker 1: and dragons. 1174 01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:24,759 Speaker 3: Wow. 1175 01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:29,639 Speaker 1: All right, and yeah, surprise purvise. Sex trafficking is big 1176 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,559 Speaker 1: in these things too. Here's another quote. All Jessica wanted 1177 01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,960 Speaker 1: was a fun night with a nice guy. Now she'll 1178 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,960 Speaker 1: be having fun with a lot of guys for a 1179 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:43,160 Speaker 1: long time. That's how messed up these things are. 1180 01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,080 Speaker 2: So that they're going on with these new tactics. So 1181 01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:51,320 Speaker 2: this sounds like the Westboro Church. Oh, teenagers for teenagers essentially. 1182 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,040 Speaker 2: But so in the first scenario with the Black Lives Matter, 1183 01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,200 Speaker 2: the Black Lives Matter people were the ones that were 1184 01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,360 Speaker 2: going to hell. I would have seen the due that 1185 01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:04,320 Speaker 2: he shot him, I would assume, So not the one because. 1186 01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:09,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, not the murderer, No, because he loves 1187 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:16,880 Speaker 1: Trump so obviously Jesus right. Definitely, So he's Christian for sure, So. 1188 01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,880 Speaker 2: Apparently I thought it was like gonna be one of 1189 01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,080 Speaker 2: those ones, like the relevant ones, that both of them 1190 01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:21,519 Speaker 2: are evil. 1191 01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,160 Speaker 3: I'm like, odd, I don't like aid one of those. 1192 01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:28,120 Speaker 1: But what I farm when I read of it, it 1193 01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,600 Speaker 1: sounds much more like it was like the demon was 1194 01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:36,960 Speaker 1: whispering in the protesters' earsh and perhaps. 1195 01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:37,920 Speaker 3: And the murder wasn't the sin. 1196 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:44,880 Speaker 1: The murder was caused by these protesters. No, I mean, 1197 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,639 Speaker 1: this is so disturbing, like it's one of those things. 1198 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,639 Speaker 1: When I was reading about it, the one I went 1199 01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:51,719 Speaker 1: to is fairly tame. 1200 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they well, this sounds like they 1201 01:09:55,200 --> 01:10:00,360 Speaker 2: are the extremists. These are again the Westboro of churches 1202 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,960 Speaker 2: that you were like, you have the way you've become evil, 1203 01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:08,360 Speaker 2: Like this, this is the evil you're talking about. I'm 1204 01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,000 Speaker 2: said that it is still happening. I thought we had 1205 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:11,599 Speaker 2: let these go. 1206 01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:16,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still going. This church is still going. There's 1207 01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:21,479 Speaker 1: a documentary about it, and it's it's huge. It's called 1208 01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:24,240 Speaker 1: hell House, but not the horror movie Health. 1209 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,400 Speaker 3: Which I love that. 1210 01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,360 Speaker 1: I love that movie too, But yeah, I mean, it's 1211 01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,640 Speaker 1: that's so upsetting and disturbing, and as I said. In 1212 01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,439 Speaker 1: these articles, people were saying this traumatized me, like, I 1213 01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:39,120 Speaker 1: can't It's hard for me to even go to church 1214 01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,880 Speaker 1: even if I was religious after I went through this, right, 1215 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,400 Speaker 1: especially any kind of marginalized people like queer people were 1216 01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:53,120 Speaker 1: saying I cannot even and I, as mentioned, this reminded 1217 01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: me when I was reading about it. This reminded me 1218 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:58,960 Speaker 1: of CPCs. This is this is a they trick you inside. 1219 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,080 Speaker 1: They show you these horrific things that aren't true. Like 1220 01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:05,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people pointed out, so many of the 1221 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,360 Speaker 1: messaging they have behind them are not true at all, 1222 01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:15,400 Speaker 1: very upsetting and offensive for young people perhaps, and they're 1223 01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:20,120 Speaker 1: just I don't know. There's something about the idea that 1224 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,760 Speaker 1: I would go into a haunted house and not realize 1225 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:26,280 Speaker 1: that I was about to be like not have a fun, 1226 01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:31,280 Speaker 1: scary time, but actually feel really traumatiy, right. 1227 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,400 Speaker 3: Being told that your life is going to put you 1228 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:35,519 Speaker 3: to hell. 1229 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,040 Speaker 2: Also, majority of the people you probably already seeing there 1230 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,160 Speaker 2: are the most judgmental people that you know exists. Because 1231 01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:46,000 Speaker 2: the people who I say this is a person who 1232 01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,519 Speaker 2: may have art one and probably both judgmental people. 1233 01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean again, a lot of people who 1234 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the younger people who worked there had 1235 01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,599 Speaker 1: no idea. But like the person who runs it has, 1236 01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,719 Speaker 1: I mean, and if you want to get upset by quotes, 1237 01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:08,920 Speaker 1: so he is a diamond dolphin, very very upsetting quotes, 1238 01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,400 Speaker 1: but he thinks it. He thinks it works, and he 1239 01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,400 Speaker 1: has a lot of quotes about how horror is it 1240 01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:19,479 Speaker 1: good to get people to become more religious. But yeah, 1241 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:24,040 Speaker 1: those are still a thing. And I did after researching this, 1242 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,719 Speaker 1: I did think, you know, Hell House LLC. The horror 1243 01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,960 Speaker 1: movie not about this at all, is about a cult 1244 01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,240 Speaker 1: and demonic possession though, so I guess that cann there 1245 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:36,040 Speaker 1: you go play in the Mouth of Hell. 1246 01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,120 Speaker 3: That's Oftennoon. 1247 01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:39,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. 1248 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,839 Speaker 3: The Gates of Hell, that's true. 1249 01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, we did. Samantha and I also got to 1250 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,840 Speaker 1: talking about trunk art treating, which I didn't know was 1251 01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:49,840 Speaker 1: a religious thing. 1252 01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,880 Speaker 3: That's how it began. I save those kids from trafficking 1253 01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:55,040 Speaker 3: and razor blades. 1254 01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:57,599 Speaker 1: You would not believe how many comments I saw about 1255 01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,559 Speaker 1: this on next door this year. Next Door has been 1256 01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,040 Speaker 1: off the chain lately for me, since. 1257 01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:06,280 Speaker 3: I haven't seen many things. 1258 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,120 Speaker 2: I've been seeing a lot of discourse about snap benefits, 1259 01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:13,200 Speaker 2: which is a horror in itself. But yeah, no, trunk 1260 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,120 Speaker 2: or treat is an interesting practice because they wanted they 1261 01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:21,760 Speaker 2: understood that they couldn't take away the joy of costumes 1262 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,800 Speaker 2: and candy, so they had to figure out a way 1263 01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,240 Speaker 2: to make it quote unquote safe and religious. 1264 01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:30,880 Speaker 3: Now, I will say, for the most part, the most 1265 01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:34,559 Speaker 3: that I've seen are usually four young children, so if 1266 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,960 Speaker 3: they're older, they're like, sure, but like the panic of 1267 01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,439 Speaker 3: like you know again, poisoning of things, trafficking of children apparently, 1268 01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:43,920 Speaker 3: and bad things have happened. Don't get me wrong. 1269 01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:49,439 Speaker 2: It may just because of like timing or not necessarily 1270 01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:53,080 Speaker 2: because of the rituals. But they were like, we're going 1271 01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,280 Speaker 2: to make this safe. We need to make sure that 1272 01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:57,599 Speaker 2: you know we are protected and that we know each 1273 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,719 Speaker 2: other type of conversation. And also it did give them 1274 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:02,599 Speaker 2: an excuse to decorate their cars. 1275 01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:04,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just. 1276 01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:08,160 Speaker 2: Interesting, but yes, it did begin as a church ideal 1277 01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,400 Speaker 2: that kind of spread into like schools being like, well, 1278 01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,479 Speaker 2: maybe this is a good option, which I don't think 1279 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,200 Speaker 2: is bad because a lot of the neighborhoods you don't 1280 01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,519 Speaker 2: know if people are actually giving out candy or not. 1281 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:23,639 Speaker 2: And I know I saw one hoa saying that people 1282 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,960 Speaker 2: from outside of the community couldn't come into trigger treat. 1283 01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,160 Speaker 3: So like the excluded a lot of people, huh, because 1284 01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:31,720 Speaker 3: they were known as a good neighborhood for candy you know. 1285 01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember no skycountry. 1286 01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to like they so they were like, 1287 01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:40,559 Speaker 2: you know, well, let's give this opportunity to everyone into 1288 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:41,360 Speaker 2: doing this way. 1289 01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:46,559 Speaker 1: So yeah, Well it was interesting because I hadn't thought 1290 01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,320 Speaker 1: about it. I've done a lot of different types of 1291 01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:53,920 Speaker 1: trickercheating when I was a kid, and I hadn't really 1292 01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:57,760 Speaker 1: considered the history of it. But I had done a 1293 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,719 Speaker 1: trunk or treat and I had done just you yep, 1294 01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,760 Speaker 1: around the square kind of thing. But I through this 1295 01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,280 Speaker 1: next door fiasco that happened, I learned that this is 1296 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:13,400 Speaker 1: still a conversation. People are really judgmental about it, as in, 1297 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,080 Speaker 1: you would you should take your kids to a church 1298 01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:22,080 Speaker 1: or else? Oh really? Oh yeah. And also apparently now 1299 01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,439 Speaker 1: there's like a you can sign up at least in 1300 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:26,320 Speaker 1: my neighborhood. You can sign up and stay in my house. 1301 01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,759 Speaker 1: That will be offering candy or I'll be offering whatever. 1302 01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,920 Speaker 2: My old neighborhood did that they had an actual route 1303 01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,800 Speaker 2: for the parents to know who would be available for 1304 01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,320 Speaker 2: what and also allergies. 1305 01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:40,160 Speaker 3: Would you know that a bad thing? 1306 01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,840 Speaker 1: No, it's not a bad thing at all. Lastly, just 1307 01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,920 Speaker 1: to mention, the satanic panic does have a lot to 1308 01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:53,720 Speaker 1: do with this. A lot of these movies like and 1309 01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:58,120 Speaker 1: practices that we've discussed did come and I read that 1310 01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,640 Speaker 1: we were kind of in a second wave of this happening. 1311 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,600 Speaker 1: But you know this idea that having a movie like 1312 01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:12,120 Speaker 1: The Exorcist, my mom was like, no, this will bring 1313 01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:17,160 Speaker 1: in it will bring in the devil, so we cannot 1314 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,639 Speaker 1: have it in the house. And that was a clock. 1315 01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,519 Speaker 1: I felt so cool when I was watching The Extorsist, 1316 01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,320 Speaker 1: like she didn't know a horrible, horrible kid, what a 1317 01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:33,000 Speaker 1: horrible kid. But you know, these movies do they have 1318 01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,479 Speaker 1: had and continue to have real consequences around the world. 1319 01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:37,839 Speaker 1: Some of it will probably have to come back and 1320 01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:42,280 Speaker 1: just do a more in depth episode on But just 1321 01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:44,960 Speaker 1: just if people believe this is true, if you see 1322 01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:49,480 Speaker 1: the like based on a true story, and witches in particular, 1323 01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,479 Speaker 1: and women in particular, and people of color are marginalized, 1324 01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:56,720 Speaker 1: people are in particular are painted as the ones that 1325 01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:02,080 Speaker 1: are possessed are evil, our agents of the Devil. It 1326 01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:08,120 Speaker 1: has had a real fallout, so we'll have to come 1327 01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:13,400 Speaker 1: back to that. Uh but yes, in the meantime, listeners, 1328 01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:17,719 Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts, any suggestions, anything we missed 1329 01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:21,080 Speaker 1: that because this was there are so many things in this. 1330 01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:24,720 Speaker 2: Genre, everything like the TV shows that pop into my 1331 01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,360 Speaker 2: head and like flavors of Korean because I was not 1332 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,439 Speaker 2: even talking about the fact that the Catholicism has that 1333 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:33,120 Speaker 2: kind of started to happen with in Korean culture to 1334 01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,840 Speaker 2: the point that is pushing up, like the popularity of 1335 01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:38,639 Speaker 2: Catholicism and how they save people. 1336 01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:42,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot of extra work to do, 1337 01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,439 Speaker 1: so listeners, please let us know what should we be 1338 01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,400 Speaker 1: talking about, what should we look at next. You can 1339 01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,719 Speaker 1: email us at Hello at stuff Wenever Told You dot com. 1340 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,960 Speaker 1: You can find us on booskuy at Moms podcast, or 1341 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,000 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff We Never told You. 1342 01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,840 Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have the merchandise at cotton 1343 01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:00,960 Speaker 1: Buro and we have you can get wherever you get 1344 01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:03,559 Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always too our super produced Christina 1345 01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,559 Speaker 1: Exector produce and a contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks 1346 01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,559 Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff and Never Told You dispection 1347 01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,280 Speaker 1: by heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, 1348 01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:12,040 Speaker 1: you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1349 01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:13,519 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.