Speaker 1: Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Nadra Glover to wib and
Speaker 1: you need to hear this. When I was in grad school,
Speaker 1: I remember many exercises around what population would you have
Speaker 1: the most biased toward, which population would be hard to
Speaker 1: work with, what sort of things might come up, which
Speaker 1: I think was a really great exercise in helping you
Speaker 1: to challenge your beliefs about a particular group of people
Speaker 1: or a particular type of person. One of the things
Speaker 1: that typically came up for me was, oh, my gosh,
Speaker 1: people who harm children. I could never work with them.
Speaker 1: And I will say that one of my early jobs
Speaker 1: was in fact doing that. And what I learned was
Speaker 1: a lot about people. I learned that despite you know,
Speaker 1: what people do, they have a story and it does
Speaker 1: not condone who they harm or what they do, but
Speaker 1: there is a story behind who people become or what
Speaker 1: they choose to do. The other thing that I was
Speaker 1: challenged by is working with folks who have addictions. You know,
Speaker 1: in my family there were several family members with addictions,
Speaker 1: and I just thought, I am tired of this life.
Speaker 1: This is something that you know, I wasn't ready to address.
Speaker 1: And again I was put into you know, a role
Speaker 1: where I had to work with folks who had addictions,
Speaker 1: and again I learned, Wow, these people have a story.
Speaker 1: And one of the biggest things that I learned with
Speaker 1: addiction is it's not typically a chosen path for people.
Speaker 1: It is a way of cold that has gotten out
Speaker 1: of hand. It is a condition of you know, tragedy
Speaker 1: and trying to manage it is sometimes partying gone too far.
Speaker 1: It is a way to mask pain. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: so many things outside of this person just wants to
Speaker 1: be drunk, or this person just wants to use this drug.
Speaker 1: In today's letter, and we will hear from someone who
Speaker 1: is challenged by their partner's alcohol use. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say abuse. I don't want to say addiction. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say misuse. We will unpack that as
Speaker 1: we go on. Speaking of those terms, I think over
Speaker 1: the years, those terms have really shifted. I remember in
Speaker 1: childhood it was for me, you know, it's alcoholic, this
Speaker 1: person is an alcoholic or a drunk, right, and then
Speaker 1: it's shifted to subs's abuse issue now substance misuse issue.
Speaker 1: Much of that has to do with how we see people.
Speaker 1: If we see a person as only an alcoholic. We
Speaker 1: are dehumanizing them if we consider their whole story, we
Speaker 1: might say, you know, they're misusing alcohol, or maybe there
Speaker 1: are some dependency issues there. Now, socially, we are not
Speaker 1: supposed to be diagnosing people, right, so when we have
Speaker 1: a loved one who has a challenge with alcohol, we're
Speaker 1: still not getting the whole picture. Even if we see them,
Speaker 1: you know, drinking a case of beer or having two
Speaker 1: pints of whatever. We don't know what they're doing secretly
Speaker 1: because there could be some secret behaviors happening. So we
Speaker 1: don't know often how severe someone's substance abuse issue is.
Speaker 1: And our information of just stop it, don't do it anymore,
Speaker 1: just put it to the side, it's not very useful
Speaker 1: in the case of a person having a problem because
Speaker 1: we're giving them a remedy that we may be able
Speaker 1: to manage. Right Like, if you don't have a drinking problem,
Speaker 1: you had some issue where you just had to stop drinking,
Speaker 1: you could do it. But when someone has an issue
Speaker 1: with the substance, that is not as easy. So let's
Speaker 1: get into today's call and we will go through this
Speaker 1: and take some breaks and digest some of this as
Speaker 1: we talk today. So let's get started. Hello.
Speaker 2: One big issue in life I'm facing now is with
Speaker 2: my significant other, and I hope you can give me
Speaker 2: some advice on how to deal with this issue. So
Speaker 2: we're not legally married, but we have been together for
Speaker 2: twelve years now and have two children. So my issue
Speaker 2: is that I've always had an issue with his drinking.
Speaker 2: When we first got together, we obviously did not have children,
Speaker 2: so we both did a lot of partying together, so
Speaker 2: I saw no problem, of course, But once I became
Speaker 2: pregnant and had my son, I did bring it to
Speaker 2: his attention that he just drank too much and all
Speaker 2: night and he should cut back. He ignored me to
Speaker 2: get some background. We are Mexicans, so there's a big
Speaker 2: machismo that men get to drink all night. It's like
Speaker 2: they wear it as a badge of honor. He's always
Speaker 2: had this belief that I was trying to control him.
Speaker 2: Fast forwards twelve years later, and I feel things have
Speaker 2: gotten worse. He stopped going out to drink somewhat, but
Speaker 2: every Friday and sometimes Saturdays, he drinks at home in
Speaker 2: the garage until five or six in the morning. I
Speaker 2: brought it up and he said, I stop going out.
Speaker 2: I'm at home. What's the big deal? He sees no
Speaker 2: issue at all. More recently, I had an event and
Speaker 2: he was supposed to stay with the kids. I woke
Speaker 2: up at six thirty am to head out and he
Speaker 2: was still up drinking. The kids did not want to
Speaker 2: stay with him, so I had to take them with me.
Speaker 2: When I bring up the issue, he says, Okay, then
Speaker 2: you can't go out anywhere. I don't agree with this
Speaker 2: because when I go out with my friends or family,
Speaker 2: it's only like once a month, and I have a
Speaker 2: couple of drinks. Socially, I head home early, like ten pm,
Speaker 2: and if I have my children, I don't drink at all.
Speaker 2: So that's like eighty percent of the time.
Speaker 1: What happens when we change and the other person doesn't
Speaker 1: in relationships, you know, I think about friendships sometimes, like
Speaker 1: you know, in my twenties, I had a partying phase
Speaker 1: and some people stayed in that space longer than I
Speaker 1: was willing to. And you know what happens to those friendships,
Speaker 1: It's like you you grow apart. You you know, maybe
Speaker 1: you see them in a different way. What happens when
Speaker 1: we you know, maybe used to drink a lot and
Speaker 1: or drink more socially, and you know, we don't have
Speaker 1: a desire for that thing. In some relationships, you know,
Speaker 1: it's something we can ship right when it's our partner
Speaker 1: and we see that they're having some problem drinking and
Speaker 1: it is a part of their cultural identity. Like in
Speaker 1: our culture, this is what men do. Just as you
Speaker 1: stated that he believes that as well. Who is he
Speaker 1: without this? Who is he within his culture? If this
Speaker 1: is a part of his identity, This is you know,
Speaker 1: learned behavior. In some ways, this is how a man acts.
Speaker 1: I remember I was talking to a fella many years
Speaker 1: ago who was having some monogamy challenges. He you know,
Speaker 1: had several affairs, and we started talking about the men
Speaker 1: in his family and how this was a part of
Speaker 1: their culture and how he was almost pushed in some ways,
Speaker 1: like you know, to chase women to be in multiple relationships,
Speaker 1: and how if he wanted to be in one relationship,
Speaker 1: it would require that that he been some of those
Speaker 1: rules around that cultural identity, and that was, you know,
Speaker 1: really tough. It's really tough to grieve being a part
Speaker 1: of this masculine group if that's what's involved, even if
Speaker 1: it's damaging it's like, but so I can't be with
Speaker 1: them if I'm going to be with you, and so
Speaker 1: I have to make this choice maybe to still be
Speaker 1: a part of the culture. What happens with alcohol is
Speaker 1: it's all around us in social settings. It is, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a part of the fabric. When you go out,
Speaker 1: when there's a celebration, there's champagne, when there is this,
Speaker 1: there's beer, when there's that, there's shots. And so stepping
Speaker 1: away from that lifestyle when you have a problem with
Speaker 1: drinking can be challenging, and to do it without treatment,
Speaker 1: I think is an even bigger challenge because there are
Speaker 1: some some things outside of just the drinking that need
Speaker 1: to be remedied. You know, there are some thinking things
Speaker 1: that are happening, there are some behavioral things that are happening,
Speaker 1: and let's face it, there are a lot of behavioral cues.
Speaker 1: You know, when we're watching someone with a substance issue,
Speaker 1: we may not be thinking about all of these things
Speaker 1: that may trigger them. I was talking to someone who
Speaker 1: was visiting my home in their smoker. I don't allow
Speaker 1: smoking in my home, and you know, I offered them coffee.
Speaker 1: They have coffee, and they just had a moment to pause,
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, what's going on. Usually when I
Speaker 1: have my coffee, I have a cigarette. You know, that's
Speaker 1: not something that I have to think about, right, Like
Speaker 1: I don't smoke cigarettes, and so I'm not thinking about
Speaker 1: all of these cues. The cues could be the time,
Speaker 1: The ques could be sports, the cues could be certain friends,
Speaker 1: the cues could be you know when you feel a
Speaker 1: certain thing. Those things are all around. So again the
Speaker 1: hay just cut back. It is multifaceted, and so the
Speaker 1: remedy is not just cutting back, but also getting to
Speaker 1: the core, also identifying some of those cultural challenges, also
Speaker 1: working through how to manage your feelings without alcohol. You know,
Speaker 1: when you get to the point of drinking from evening
Speaker 1: to five or six in the morning, you may need
Speaker 1: more support than you think. And I know some of it.
Speaker 1: Oh I could just quit if I want to, you
Speaker 1: would have. You would have, And so doing it without
Speaker 1: support sometimes for people who have challenges with drinking, it's
Speaker 1: not going to be easy. I didn't say it was impossible.
Speaker 1: I'm saying it won't be easy because there are so
Speaker 1: many dynamics around you that are encouraging some of this
Speaker 1: drinking lifestyle. As we're talking today, I am just looking
Speaker 1: at my book, which I think is a wonderful book.
Speaker 1: If you are in a relationship with a family member
Speaker 1: who has an addiction of any sort, it is the
Speaker 1: Complete Family Guide to Addiction. I think this book is
Speaker 1: really good because it really talks about what is addiction,
Speaker 1: what causes it, how do we help our loved ones
Speaker 1: with it, how do we better understand how to be helpful?
Speaker 1: And sometimes what we're doing, you know, maybe modeling not
Speaker 1: drinking or saying hey, look at me, just cut back,
Speaker 1: it's not as helpful as we may think, and so
Speaker 1: they may need some support outside of us, and we'll
Speaker 1: talk more about, you know, some of the supports that
Speaker 1: are possible. Let's keep listening.
Speaker 2: I honestly told him, why not cut back? Two fridays
Speaker 2: a month. I have tried to sit outside and hang
Speaker 2: out with him, just to see if he'd cut the
Speaker 2: night short. But he has admitted that he doesn't know
Speaker 2: when to stop. Once he feels buzzed. I feel like
Speaker 2: I sound like a broken record. He makes me feel
Speaker 2: like I'm asking for too much. It also drives me
Speaker 2: crazy because it's like I have to turn off my
Speaker 2: give a shit switch, and once that happens, I start
Speaker 2: doing my own thing. Mind you, my children are always
Speaker 2: with me, because God forbid, he takes care of his kids.
Speaker 2: Oh but once he sees I'm not home all the time,
Speaker 2: it becomes an issue and accuses me of never being home.
Speaker 2: My response to this is, why do you want me
Speaker 2: at home just sitting around doing nothing? Well, you get
Speaker 2: drunk outside now. I do movie nights with the kids,
Speaker 2: and he sat with us twice. I don't want to
Speaker 2: sit outside and get drunk all the time. It's crazy
Speaker 2: that's the only way he'll spend time with me. Some
Speaker 2: women have told me, well, he's a good man, he
Speaker 2: works hard, and at least he's at home. But I'm
Speaker 2: tired of feeling this way. I just cannot convince myself
Speaker 2: long enough to be okay with it. I've thought about
Speaker 2: talking to his mother, but I feel like she enables
Speaker 2: him because she talks to him on the phone until
Speaker 2: three am. I feel like she should tell him to
Speaker 2: go to bed and call it a night. I've brought
Speaker 2: up his health. She doesn't drink all week, but I
Speaker 2: tell him, what you don't drink during the week, you
Speaker 2: may get up on the weekend.
Speaker 1: So I hear that he's trying to practice some boundaries
Speaker 1: around this. So what he's now doing is a bit
Speaker 1: of bench drinking, which can still, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: still problematic because although you're you know, you're cutting it
Speaker 1: off for these days, you're getting back to it during
Speaker 1: a certain time period. I once read something that beinge
Speaker 1: drinking can be a little more challenging and dangerous for
Speaker 1: people sometimes because that's when you know, you start to
Speaker 1: experience more blackouts and you know, just drinking related accidents
Speaker 1: and this sort of thing because you've been like trying
Speaker 1: to manage it and then you like full throttle, right.
Speaker 1: So I know when a person has a drinking challenge
Speaker 1: that that is one way to you know, maybe be
Speaker 1: able to show themselves like, look, I have control over
Speaker 1: this Monday through Thursday, I'm not doing it. But then Friday, Saturday,
Speaker 1: Sunday there's a lot of drinking activities. So you know,
Speaker 1: in some ways that could be just as problematic as
Speaker 1: a person doing it all week. And as impactful. As
Speaker 1: we talk about this, I wonder, you know, not just
Speaker 1: about you, but also your children.
Speaker 2: There is.
Speaker 1: Significant information on what children in families who have you know,
Speaker 1: a parent with a drinking problem, what they experience as
Speaker 1: a result of witnessing this. You know, there is some
Speaker 1: portion of addiction being hereditary or you know, something that
Speaker 1: is mimicked in families and becomes a cycle in our family.
Speaker 1: You know, a part of that is the observation of it.
Speaker 1: We are learning, you know, just as it is culturally.
Speaker 1: We are learning learning how to manage our problems. We
Speaker 1: are learning how to exist. We are learning what we
Speaker 1: do when we sit in the garage, we are learning
Speaker 1: what we may go to when we're having a difficult moment.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of you know, absorption going on.
Speaker 1: And also I would be concerned about how does this
Speaker 1: impact your ability to parent if this is at the
Speaker 1: forefront of your mind, if your concern is not just
Speaker 1: keeping your kids safe, but also making sure they're not
Speaker 1: exposed to this, like that is a lot happening for you.
Speaker 1: And with that, I want to say, you know, when
Speaker 1: someone has a drinking problem, it is said that addiction
Speaker 1: is a family disease. What does that mean every single person,
Speaker 1: whether they are responding to it or not, whether they
Speaker 1: have some outward show a feeling, they have some experience
Speaker 1: with the drinking person have some impact from the drinking
Speaker 1: in that home. So it is your partner, it is
Speaker 1: your two children, and it is you, probably other family
Speaker 1: members and friends. Everyone is impacted. So for you, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it would be helpful to maybe look into
Speaker 1: a support group. You know, a really popular one is
Speaker 1: alan On. They have resources online. You know, they have
Speaker 1: some podcasts that are really helpful. There are you know, workbooks.
Speaker 1: Some other resources that might be helpful for you is
Speaker 1: the Recovery Dharma and then Smart Recovery. These are programs
Speaker 1: that are for people who are trying to troubleshoot some
Speaker 1: of their drinking and addiction issues. But they also have
Speaker 1: resources for family members. It's really important to not just
Speaker 1: place your partner as the problem, like he is the
Speaker 1: only problem person in this house. Well, you have a
Speaker 1: problem with his problem, for you are problemed. The children
Speaker 1: have a problem with his problem, Therefore they are a problem.
Speaker 1: Like everybody is being impacted by this problem, Therefore everyone
Speaker 1: involved may need some recovery. We're gonna go to break
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2: I also hear him always talk with his friends that
Speaker 2: say things like my girl doesn't tell me not to
Speaker 2: drink makes me feel like an idiot, or will say
Speaker 2: your girl doesn't let you do anything like pumping his chest.
Speaker 2: When I bring this to his attention, he says, oh,
Speaker 2: it's because they want to make fun of me. Or
Speaker 2: he talks to me about his friends that don't hang
Speaker 2: out because the wife won't let him. I tell him, well,
Speaker 2: maybe he would just rather be present with his wife.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that. He'll just dismiss me and
Speaker 2: say it's because he allows her to tell him what
Speaker 2: to do. This type of talk disgusts me and makes
Speaker 2: me hate men.
Speaker 1: I'm hearing some cultural challenges here, and it may be
Speaker 1: a part of your culture to have some of these
Speaker 1: common issues with your friends, with your mom, with his mom,
Speaker 1: where there is normalizing around some pretty unhealthy behavior. So yeah,
Speaker 1: someone else's girlfriend may say, oh, yeah, I don't have
Speaker 1: a problem with your drinking. I don't know what she's
Speaker 1: talking about. She may be, you know, so ingrained in
Speaker 1: that culture of this is how it should be. That
Speaker 1: maybe it's not a problem for her, it's a problem
Speaker 1: for you, and that's okay. You know, we are our
Speaker 1: own independent culture. In my culture, this is not okay,
Speaker 1: And I'm a part of the Mexican culture as well,
Speaker 1: and that is okay behavior. But for me personally, within
Speaker 1: my own being, this is something that I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a part of my family fabric. Right. So
Speaker 1: I understand that we operate in this greater culture of something,
Speaker 1: but in our household there is a culture within us,
Speaker 1: there is a culture. So what is my independent culture?
Speaker 1: What is my family culture? What is my ethnicity? You know,
Speaker 1: like there are different cultures that we're operating in, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, from your ethnic culture, it sounds like, you know,
Speaker 1: some of this, unfortunately is normalized, and I think in
Speaker 1: many cultures there are some things that are not good
Speaker 1: for us mentally and physically that might be normalized, but
Speaker 1: they're still not good things. And so talking to those
Speaker 1: people who are like, yeah, this is how it is,
Speaker 1: it's like, that's not very helpful. It needs to change,
Speaker 1: it needs to be different. You know, we do not
Speaker 1: need to exist in a pattern of this person doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be present because they're engaged in this behavior.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're wanting something different for your family
Speaker 1: that maybe these other people don't want. And that's okay.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you need to go on a
Speaker 1: crusade of convincing everybody in your culture to shift. Right now,
Speaker 1: we just need to shift you. We need to shift
Speaker 1: your household, not everyone else. And so you know, part
Speaker 1: of this is really reconciling that this might be okay
Speaker 1: for some of the people in your culture and it
Speaker 1: not be okay for you. The line that really stuck
Speaker 1: out with me here is this type of talk discussed
Speaker 1: me and makes me hate men, all of them. Oh,
Speaker 1: you know, not all men think alike. Not all men
Speaker 1: think alike. And that's something we have to remember, even
Speaker 1: if it's ten that we know there is one person
Speaker 1: who works at the grocery store near us who is
Speaker 1: so nice and kind and not like these other men.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the all men part. It's like using
Speaker 1: this situation and maybe some others to say all that
Speaker 1: can be really challenging. And I want you to watch
Speaker 1: that because becoming disgusted with a group of people because
Speaker 1: of what you see, as you know, maybe typical behavior
Speaker 1: amongung some doesn't mean that it's typical among all. Let's
Speaker 1: keep listening.
Speaker 2: You know, he is home all week with us, but
Speaker 2: it's like he's not there. I work from home, so
Speaker 2: I have to deal with everything that has to do
Speaker 2: with my children. I cook dinner, feed them, clean up,
Speaker 2: and take care of shower and bedtime. His representation of
Speaker 2: being present is getting home, showering, eating dinner, and sitting
Speaker 2: on the couch scrolling on TikTok. I hear his mother
Speaker 2: tell me about his daily routines when he lived with her,
Speaker 2: and it's the same, come home, shower, eat and hit
Speaker 2: the couch. Come the weekend heath party. I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: that sounds like my routine when I was single too.
Speaker 2: But now I'm a mother in a relationship, so that's
Speaker 2: not what my schedule is anymore. I've tried to sit
Speaker 2: and think, why does it bother me? Why can't I
Speaker 2: just accept it? What should I do? I'm honestly to
Speaker 2: the point that i just want to call it quits
Speaker 2: because I'm tired of always having the same conversation. Maybe
Speaker 2: I am too hard on him and he doesn't deserve this.
Speaker 2: Maybe I will never understand and accept this and should
Speaker 2: stop making myself unhappy. I think I just want someone
Speaker 2: to evolve with me. I hope you can help me.
Speaker 1: This line. But now I'm a mother in a relationship,
Speaker 1: so that's not what my schedule is anymore. That was
Speaker 1: a choice, That was your choice for motherhood, because there
Speaker 1: are some mothers who don't change their schedule for motherhood.
Speaker 1: There are some fathers who do not change their schedule
Speaker 1: for motherhood. So it sounds like you made a choice
Speaker 1: to be a different version of yourself because you were
Speaker 1: stepping into an intentional role of being a mother, and
Speaker 1: perhaps your partner is not in that same place. One
Speaker 1: of the most challenging times in a couple's relationship is
Speaker 1: when they introduce cho into the relationship. One of the
Speaker 1: big arguments they always have is, you're not doing less
Speaker 1: like me. I've made this sacrifice. You didn't make that sacrifice.
Speaker 1: This is what a father should do, This is what
Speaker 1: a mother should do. That conversation around what these roles
Speaker 1: mean is a common one, and many of us, you know, decide, hey,
Speaker 1: you are a great boyfriend, but you're not the dad
Speaker 1: that I thought you'd be. And you know, what do
Speaker 1: we base that on? Right? You know, before I had
Speaker 1: kids with my husband, I couldn't say what kind of
Speaker 1: dad he was. I mean, he liked my dog, right,
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, I guess you'll be nice
Speaker 1: to kids like he is the dog. But that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's not a measure, you know, don't We don't know
Speaker 1: what we're getting into with a person. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: what is what is the measure of that? Now, maybe
Speaker 1: if they have other kids and we have some example
Speaker 1: of oh, well, you know, that's how he treats his daughter.
Speaker 1: But when we're walking into this, we really don't know.
Speaker 1: And to be quite honest, we don't even do everything
Speaker 1: that we think we would do. And so this expectation
Speaker 1: that when you become this parent, you become this maturer person.
Speaker 1: Not all of us. We were the same person as
Speaker 1: we were last year this time, but now we just
Speaker 1: have a baby. You know, nothing has shifted, nothing has changed.
Speaker 1: Maybe we're not drinking less, maybe we're not partying less.
Speaker 1: Maybe we're doing it a bit more because you know,
Speaker 1: maybe we have more stressors. Who knows, but you know,
Speaker 1: this whole idea that there should be this rapid shift
Speaker 1: or shift at all, it's an expectation that many of
Speaker 1: us have that goes unfulfilled because it's not the other
Speaker 1: person's desire for themselves. I would wonder, what does your partner,
Speaker 1: if you were to ask him, tell me about your
Speaker 1: role as a father. What is a father? How do
Speaker 1: you see your role as a parent to our children?
Speaker 1: It might be very different than what you think. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you think a mother is responsible. They cook,
Speaker 1: they clean, they feed, they take care of their children,
Speaker 1: They do shower, they do bedtime. His you know, without
Speaker 1: asking him. It sounds like I'm present. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: how I look when I'm present. It doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: I'm sober when I'm present. It doesn't matter if I'm
Speaker 1: present in the garage, on the couch, on TikTok. I
Speaker 1: am here. And that might be enough for him, But
Speaker 1: is it enough for you? You need to hear this.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we think we're being too hard on people, and
Speaker 1: sometimes we're actually not being hard enough. Expectations are a
Speaker 1: part of a relationship. Now, what we shouldn't do is
Speaker 1: nag people. We shouldn't try to make them, you know,
Speaker 1: honor our agenda. We shouldn't drag them. We shouldn't you know,
Speaker 1: pull them to our side all the time. Because they
Speaker 1: are autonomous beings and they have some choice, and sometimes,
Speaker 1: unfortunately in relationships, people's choices do not align with the
Speaker 1: life that we want to have. It doesn't align with
Speaker 1: our lifestyle. But the part that we can control is
Speaker 1: what we do with that. How do I show up
Speaker 1: in this relationship? Do I want to be in this relationship?
Speaker 1: Is this something that has the potential to change? Those
Speaker 1: are the questions that we need to ask when we
Speaker 1: are stuck on a person's behavior. You need to hear
Speaker 1: This is an iHeart production host it by me Nadra
Speaker 1: Glover to whip. Our executive producer is Joe L. Baldique.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer and editor is Mia Don Taylor. Us
Speaker 1: a voice memo with your questions about boundaries and relationships
Speaker 1: at You need to hear this at iHeartMedia dot com.
Speaker 1: Please be sure to rate our show wherever you listen
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