WEBVTT - Yellowjackets Season Three 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:00.680 Warning. 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.720 This episode contains spoilers for season three, episode one of 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:05.840 Yellow Jackets. 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:06.800 You warned. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.320 Hello, my name is Jason Keccepsio and I'm risday Night 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:27.840 and welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.520 we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, comics, and 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.839 pop culture comedy from our podcast where we'll bring you 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.479 three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Don't 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.960 forget listeners, Our dear listeners, what's your feedback? Give me 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.320 a link in our episode description. You will find a 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.360 link there to take our quick listener survey so that 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.760 we can find out from you what things you like, 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.239 what things you don't like, what things you'd like to 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.720 hear more of, etcetera, etcetera. 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.080 In today's episode, we are talking about Yellowjackets. 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:06.200 We talked about season one and we loved it. We 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.440 covered season two every single week and we were a 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.040 little bit disappointed. What is season three offering. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.960 We have checked in on the first premiere episode and 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.560 we will be talking about it along with our general feelings. 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.800 About puzzle box mystery box shows. How'd you do them right? 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.600 How'd you do them wrong? How many are there? There's 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.360 a lot of them? Guys. So yeah, let's talk about it. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.720 But first shipping out of their lock for the season 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:39.479 three premiere of Yellowjackets. Okay, Rosie. Yellowjackets is back for 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:47.120 season three after as you mentioned up top, a stellar 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:53.360 and quite intriguing for a season, followed by a second 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:58.120 season where we started to get into crazy Riverdale territory. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.880 Yes, lots of wild stuff going on. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.120 If you haven't watched Yellow Jackets, you can go back 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.120 and listen to our We did an episode about Yellow 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.720 Jackets season one. You can go back and listen to that. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.679 We also did coverage of the whole of season two. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.560 You can go back and listen to that. Season one 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.600 basically dual timeline show in the nineties timeline a group 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.560 of girls who play soccer crash in the woods and 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.480 have to survive, and in the future, the adult survivors 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.440 of that group deal with someone blackmailing them about the truth. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:31.840 That was very intriguing. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:37.120 It was also weirdly intimate and basically just a character piece, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.040 and that really pushed it through. There was lots of 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.920 hints of what could come. Is there something supernatural? Is 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.720 they're gonna be cannibalism? Will the girls survive it? Ended 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.080 with the death of one of the girls, Jackie. That 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.520 was a big deal Ella Pernell's character. We also discovered 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.600 who the blackmailer was. It was one of the main 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.440 girl's husband, Jeff. We have Shanna and Jeff. That was 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.000 very messed up of them. And then we leave the 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.400 show and go to season two where everybody is just oh, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.080 and by the way, the girls killed someone. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:12.840 Will that come back to want them? We don't know. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:14.600 They killed someone In the modern day. 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.440 They killed a sexy guy who called Adam and they 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.079 chopped him up. It was pre messed up. Season two, 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.080 they finally succumbed to cannibalism. That was basically the moment 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.920 everybody waited for. We saw them eat Jackie's body. Did 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.200 they choose to do it? Did the Woods want them 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.760 to do it? Then we got in the modern day 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.560 into the truth about one of the girls from the forest, Lottie. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.440 Was she running a cult? 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.320 Was it just the wellness center? Had she been in charge? 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.880 Was she mentally stable in the woods and in modern day? 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.000 All those answers were left open to us as we 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.400 continued towards season three. But the biggest thing you need 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:55.920 to know about the end of season two was that 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.160 one of our favorite characters, Natalie in the modern day, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.480 she was killed Juliette Lewis accidentally killed by her bestie 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.240 want to be bestie Misty played by Christina Ricci, and 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.000 an injection of bentanol. So, as you can tell, lots 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.680 going on in this show. Jason, what did you think 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.880 of episode one of season three? 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.000 Did it hook you back in? Did it leave you 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.719 with more questions? What did you feel? 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.000 I'll say this and stay tuned for a broader conversation 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.080 about mystery box shows in general, which this show most 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:33.039 definitely is. 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:33.960 Absolutely. 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:40.599 I will say that one thing that I appreciated from 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.640 this episode was that it displayed a self awareness about 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:49.080 where the show was after season two and what the 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:53.840 audience is looking for, and I think it tries in 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.760 various ways to deliver those things and to subvert the 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.040 expectation of those things in interesting ways. There's a I 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.000 kind of I thought that intro was cute in which 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.800 you think, oh, here we are, We're like going into 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.680 cannibal territory with the girls like running around in the 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:14.839 woods and biting each other. But then it just turns 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.440 out there playing like a kind of tag game with 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.760 a totem, but there's still a lot of kind of 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.279 like a diffuse direction and a lack of a drive 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.760 towards moving the plot along at times that makes me 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.919 feel as if the show is still kind of spinning 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.040 its wheels for it here, and even when the plot 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.839 is kind of moving and you feel like we're driving 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.719 towards these answers. For instance, Vans, there's a scene in which, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.400 after the the reveal of the game is made, then 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:53.800 you get Van like addressing the girls in this kind 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:58.680 of pithy monologue that. 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.159 It's kind of like she's the storyteller, but she's that 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.400 morphs into this kind of like into this speech of 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:07.160 sorts in. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.000 Which it's clear that the girls look to her in 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.920 a way that is different than they have looked to 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.120 her in the past, kind of as a leader. But yes, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.719 to your point, also was a storyteller, someone who like 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.920 gives structure to their experiences there on the island, And 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.680 I like that in theory. My issue was it just 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.800 didn't feel like it landed to me. Yeah, and so 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.920 I appreciate that they did that, but it didn't feel 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.000 like it was really working. And and then there were 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.280 other things that just just like why is this happening? 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:44.080 When you know when adult tyson, adult van go on 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:50.640 there kind of relive the old days, kind of teen 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:55.880 style trouble making tour of town. It was a little 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.560 bit like why, like what's so? 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:57.880 Why? 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.400 Also is your I's not still in a coma? Like 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.200 what is going on there? Like this is a Taisa 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:04.599 come on? 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.279 They at least addressed her political career in a very 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:13.280 quick line exposition DVID, which she's like, yes, uh the 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.480 quickest like state senator ever to be impeached. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.800 Yeah, actually, like I'm out, I'm out. They just cut 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.960 that head of the way. I definitely agree with you, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:23.600 I don't. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.920 I don't think it was like the shining kind of 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:31.360 like burning immediate capture that a lot of us wanted 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.400 to feel like, oh, we're hooked back into this show. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:34.760 But I do think the show. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.640 Is still relying on the one thing it knows it has, 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:41.120 which is an unbelievable cast and very interesting characters. I 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.880 am still dedicated to finding out what happens to these 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.760 girls because I do care, but. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.520 It is interesting and once again, as if you ever. 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.280 Listen to our speed recaps of season two, so much 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.120 happens in these episodes like this episode, we're back in 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:55.679 the forest. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.160 The girls are trying to survive. 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.560 They've got these new witchy huts because at the end 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.280 of season to Coach Ben tried to burn them alive 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.520 in the house they were staying in in the forest, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.520 which was because they were cannibals, So you know what, 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.120 I'm not even going to judge him that much. 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.760 But they are now living. Spring has come. 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.920 They're doing okay. Seanna is not doing okay. She lost 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.280 the baby in season two. She's very bitter. She's very 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.120 sociopathic towards the other girls in the group. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.320 She's not feeling happy. It's going bad. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.760 In modern day, we see Natalie's memorial rap to her. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.040 Then we see Misty getting drunk and she kind of 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.920 assaults some guys at a bar, but is saved by Walter. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.160 We still don't know if he's a cannibal or a 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:39.520 serial killer or something. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:45.600 He's just her fellow citizen detective. We then also see this. 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.040 Is the big moment that I think has inspired the 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.600 larger part of our conversation that we're going to go 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.600 on to have, which is Coach Ben, who is trying 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.280 to survive without the girls and their weird kind of 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.160 supernatural tinge structure that they created in the forest, but 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.720 is digging around and he finds a military hatch, and 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:12.000 he finds a bunch of military supplies, food, dried goods 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.400 that he can survive on, and they say k uh 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.360 on the top and it's very lost. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.640 It's very much leaning into that. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.240 Idea that a lot of us had theorized about in 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.400 the first and second season, on whether or not the 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.000 island was not in fact supernatural and was instead a 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:34.440 place that they had done some kind of experiments hallucinogenic. 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.840 Experimental, chemic chemical weapons. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.200 Would kind of and that definitely feels that way. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.480 Shawna's daughter, Callie, who we were big haters of, she's 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.280 a very good, haterable character. She throws some entrails on 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.480 people at school who were chatting shit about her mom. 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.199 She bonds with her mum, Shana over it. The beloved 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.360 and delightful Melanielinski, around who the whole show basically revolves, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.000 and of course they bond over it because Shawna's a 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:01.760 terrible person. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.760 And then the episode ends, I think with a really 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:07.319 interesting hook. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.440 That was the thing I was thinking about the most, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.719 which is coach Ben digs a hole and catches one 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.320 of the girls, Mari, who Shuna has been kind of 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.680 fighting with, which makes me think we probably won't notice 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.600 Mari's gone for too long. But it's very interesting to 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:27.160 me because while we've seen these girls, you know, cannibalize 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:31.680 another person, kind of fight amongst themselves, decide that they're 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.960 gonna hunt one of their own. We saw them do 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.520 that with Natalie, but they ended up, you know, with 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:37.800 Harvey dying, so. 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.960 They decided to eat him instead. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.640 And it's very interesting to me that the moment you 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.600 see an adult man standing over a girl in a ditch, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:48.720 you're like, oh, this is the bad guy though, like 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.720 he's gonna do something bad, he's gonna capture And I'm 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.040 interested to see how they play that because it could 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.920 bring the girls together. It could be an interesting kind 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.280 of commentary on what we view as evil or what 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.280 we view as dangerous. I thought that was an interesting end, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.119 but yeah, I'll be happy. I'm going to be intrigued 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.360 mostly to see how our listeners like this episode and 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.120 how other people in our space are the critics like it, 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.360 because I do think Yellow Jackets is probably this show 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:17.680 in the last few years. 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.120 That had that unbelievable. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.920 Stirling first season and has kind of struggled to catch 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.840 up thanks to the nature of mystery box storytelling, which 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.600 we are going to come back and talk about in 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:57.800 a minute after a message from rock Cocky. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.880 And we're back, Okay. 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.360 The mystery Box Rosie, which I think this show definitely is, 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:57.960 which I would define as shows that are built around 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.680 some kind of riddle, some kind of puzzle, and that 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:07.920 missing piece or missing pieces of information create an air 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:15.680 of strangeness around the show that, if it works correctly, 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:21.720 really hooks the viewer. Shows in this genre include, currently 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:22.960 in season two, Severance. 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:24.240 Oh, that's the biggest one. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.880 I think is a huge mystery box show right now. 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:34.600 The originator of the form is probably Twin Peaks Lak, 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:35.880 I think, and. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.120 Then obviously early ones I would say some arcs of The. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.800 X Files, some arcs of the X Files. I think 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.160 The X Files is a is a Monster of the 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.480 Week show with through the snow Smoking Man and the 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.800 kind of like loose conspiratorial threads that kind of like 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:02.280 go through seasons with those particularly things. Has mystery box elements, 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.520 but is mostly a Monster of the Week show. Then 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.400 there is of course Lost, which was I would say 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.439 the probably the most successful, and. 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.320 Also I would say the reason that any of us 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.880 even know what this is. I feel like without Lost 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:24.360 this concept and conversation, and also the expected kind of 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.760 reaction to a mystery box show, which even on the 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.160 Wikipedia for mystery box I think this is really funny. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.960 It's like viewers are drawn by the lure of the 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.600 mythos of the program, but can lose interest if the 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.640 program sets up too many mysteries but fails to resolve 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.000 them in a. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:44.480 It's literally Wikipedia, Wikipedia, thank you. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.079 Like the funniest thing about it is the mystery. 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.760 Box show is known in part because of the lack 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.959 of success of mystery box shows, including Lost. Even though 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.160 Lost definitely hooked people for the longest amount of time, 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.480 solving the ultimate can of what Lost was and where 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.000 Lost was going, and where Lost was set and whether 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.560 Lost was the afterlife or whether it was purgatory. Those 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.920 questions hooked viewers, but whether or not the show landed 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.920 them is another question. And then you have Yeah, it's 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.760 very interesting because also you have other shows with fantastic 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.160 concepts like Under the Dome from twenty thirteen, A. 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.760 Dome dot, and we mentioned Under the Dome as we 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.920 were as we were compiling our list of misery Box shows, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:36.600 I screamed because first of all, I completely forgot about 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.200 cost dome, and second of all, Under the Dome like 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.200 came out hot, like first two three episodes of. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.840 Under the Dome, yep, went crazy. I was like, what 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.120 is up with this dome? 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:48.680 Dude? 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.720 Truly, I was like that Under the Dome is one 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.720 of the programs that I And this is a conversation 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:56.600 for a different day, but I do think it's very interesting. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:58.320 On reels and. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.760 TikTok, there is an entire cottage industry of people just 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.200 sharing moments from movies and being like, what would you do? 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.600 Or he saved this guy's life? 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.520 And Under the Dome is one of the most TikTok 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.440 and real shows because it has so many great moments 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.680 in the pilot of the truck almost crashing into the 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.440 dome and people trying to communicate through the dome. It's 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.040 a great concept based on Stephen King's best selling novel. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.480 But again, could I tell you what happened at the 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:27.280 end of that show? 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.760 No, because it was canceled, first of all, and also 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.000 because a lot of times mystery box shows do not 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.800 keep us going, keep us connected and having those water 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.600 cooler conversations throughout their multiple seasons. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.160 Let me ask you this, This is a conversation I've 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.880 had a lot about. I think Lost is a good 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:57.560 way to kind of unpack the kind of two philosophies 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.800 of the Mystery Box Show. I'm my co host malr 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:05.440 Rubn really enjoyed the Lost finale because for her it's 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:12.400 about the characters and the emotions, and I was disappointed 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.040 in it because for me, I feel like there's a 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.040 social contract with the Mystery Bock Show in which you 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.360 use the mystery to keep me engaged. Therefore, when we 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.040 get to the end, you gotta throw me a bone 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.280 on the answer for the mystery, or else I'm going 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.840 to feel like strung along. Where do you fall on 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.400 character versus answers? 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.880 So I would say generally I am an answers person, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:46.200 though Yellow Jackets for the first time has gotten me 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.960 to the point where I care about these characters enough 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.480 that I will keep watching it, and if they got 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:57.120 satisfying conclusions, I would maybe feel okay. But that is 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.680 the first show where I've really felt that way. Often 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.800 I want an answer. I want, or at least I 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.560 want some cool like existential journey. You know, people talk 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.320 about The Leftovers as a puzzle book show. I don't 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.520 really know if I it is kind of agreed it 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.720 kind of is. But really, to me, that's the most 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.679 effective where you have the characters. You also kind of 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.680 have the answers because it's the rapture, but the conversation 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.240 around what it means to be left behind. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.240 You almost answer the question at the beginning and then 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.119 look at the fallout. I think that works really well. 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.719 Again, like we've we've talked a lot about like Severance. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.600 It's great, but I need to know season two, I 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:38.560 need to start knowing. 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.320 I am definitely at that point with Severance, And I 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:46.960 will say that like to me shows that Silo is 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.359 a good example of a show that has mystery box 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:55.399 elements but also basically resolved the the kind of the 0:17:55.440 --> 0:18:00.439 big show initial strange puzzle rather quickly so that you 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.840 could move into the story. And I think that's an 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.600 effective way to do it. Westworld, to me, is a 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.919 show in which they could have done that right. You 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:13.119 could have resolved the mystery box element rather quickly and 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:18.240 then got into the reality of what this simulated western 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:23.240 town world really is. But instead they put like the 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.960 mystery box show inside of another mystery box show inside 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.240 of it, and that, to me is where I get 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.520 frustrated and begin to lose interest. I agree with you 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.400 with severance, where I'm starting to feel like, okay, now, 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.560 just kind of lay it out and let the characters 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.000 and let the characters drive the stories. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.360 I want to know a little bit. I don't want 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:45.240 to just be watching. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.080 I think that's the issue is do you get to 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:50.800 the point where you're just watching only to find out 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.359 the answer? That can become an it's a good viewing experience. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.760 I would also say something I think is most interesting 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.440 about mystery box shows is the way that they've influenced 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:03.879 other shows that are. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.960 Not technically mystery box shows. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.840 Like True Detective first season, let's talk about that. That's 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:15.399 really just a murder mystery, right. But HBO, Prestige TV, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.360 you have these this incredible cast. They're like, Okay, we're 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.119 gonna make it weirder, we're gonna make it more supernatural, 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.560 we're gonna make it potentially elements a mystery box great 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.040 that hooked me, but then at the end they were like, well, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:29.400 we only have like this many. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.639 Forget about guess what forget about? 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.200 Actually it was just this one like Gunna Hansen inspired, 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.000 like kind of leather Face esque killer and you wait a. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.640 Minute, what, like why make me watch the rest of it? Why? 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:51.119 And that's I think the unanswered unsolved teasers can be 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.840 very frustrating. And that's not to say we want to 0:19:53.880 --> 0:20:00.119 show that has no you know, no conversation about what 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:04.040 it's really about, or an ambiguous nature to an ending. 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:05.600 We love that kind of stuff. That's some of the 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:06.840 most exciting stuff. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.080 But mystery box shows can get trapped in a space 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.800 where they're constantly just trying to keep you guessing, and 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:18.040 that can become its own cycle, which I think is 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:19.160 what happened with Westworld. 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:25.800 To me, the most effective recent mystery box show is 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.280 The Good Place. Mike Sure is a good Place because 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.880 because the mysteries basically resolved at the end of season one, 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.720 in which you realize, wait a second, this is they're 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:45.160 actually I don't want to Well, everybody, if you don't 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.280 have to watch the first season of. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:48.560 This show from five years ago. 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.280 Big spoiler here it comes, in which it is revealed 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.879 there actually in the bad Wow, spoiler over, spoiler over, 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:04.400 spoiler over. Okay, now with that reveal basically done, now 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.040 with the audience and the show kind of on the 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:14.080 same page. You've basically spent all of that season training 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.399 the audience about what the reality is, and now the 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.399 story can progress in really interesting and unexpected ways. And 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.080 to me, that's kind of the platonic ideal of how 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.760 you do a mystery box show. You have this incredible 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.360 mystery that you lay out in a relatively brief time 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.280 a season or a season and a half. It's then revealed, 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.080 and now the characters take it from there and really 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.919 propel the story forward. I'm not saying that's easy to do. 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.800 I do think that's something that Yellowjackets could have done. 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.359 You could have basically said, Okay, it's a military thing, 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.199 and this is why they're doing that, and this is 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:51.800 and here are the things that have happened, and here's 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.760 how it's affecting them now that trauma now in the 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.399 present day. I think that could have happened, and that 0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:58.480 would feel pretty good. 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.080 And that's what hooked a law people because of the 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:03.840 incredible casting of these old teen actors and kind of 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.239 in this metaspace of them being adults and dealing with 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:08.440 the trauma of being kids. 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.880 But that's not I do think that. I do think 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:18.159 that when to me, when a show is giving you 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:22.680 mystery after mystery after mystery, the feeling that I get, 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.520 and you tell me what the feeling it gives you, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.760 is the feeling I get is like they don't know. 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:30.720 They don't know where we're going. 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:33.639 That is that concerns me. 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:37.000 That's my biggest fear with any show that I love. 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.800 I mean, we are obviously you mentioned you know, you 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.880 and Mallory were right there in the trenches. 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.520 During Game of Thrones, like you guys saw how that was. 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.280 Those creators have talked about how they didn't know where 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.240 the show was going to go. You know, we have 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.680