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Speaker 1: Hey, that folks did. Is Friday, December twelfth. Closing arguments

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Speaker 1: are underway in the trial of Brian Walsh and with that,

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Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes their part.

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Speaker 1: We listened through Tipton the defense already, and it's strange

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Speaker 1: to say, listening to him, we felt seen. He made

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Speaker 1: some points that throughout we were having the same feeling,

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Speaker 1: and he was doing it to say, the prosecution has

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Speaker 1: just given you a bunch of stuff and says do

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Speaker 1: with it what you will exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we had been complaining about as we

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Speaker 2: watched the prosecution put on its case for the last

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Speaker 2: two weeks, and I saw, I thought where they were headed,

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Speaker 2: and then they never would bring it home. And I

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Speaker 2: was asking myself as a juror, You're questioning, why am

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Speaker 2: I hearing about this? What's the importance or significance of this?

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Speaker 3: How are you.

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Speaker 2: Tying this to intentional premeditated murder? And I was confused,

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Speaker 2: and I had an idea of maybe where the prosecutors

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Speaker 2: were headed, but they never told us, and I've never

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Speaker 2: seen that before. I understand they get the witness to

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Speaker 2: take you down a path and you're and you're you're

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Speaker 2: following along, and then they bring it home with either

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Speaker 2: the follow up question or just in the way they

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Speaker 2: continue the line of question, you understand what they're trying

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Speaker 2: to prove. I was confused for most of the prosecution's case, and.

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Speaker 1: So Tipton, who from the very first word that came

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Speaker 1: out of his mouth an opening statement, You and I

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Speaker 1: looked at each other and said, oh boy, he's going

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Speaker 1: to be a good one. And we saw that because

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Speaker 1: it's not just a matter of legal there's a presentation

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Speaker 1: and almost a colloquial way he talks that works that

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Speaker 1: some will tell you works with jurors.

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Speaker 2: You pay attention, You sit up when he speaks. He

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Speaker 2: is an amazing speaker and orator. Obviously he's he knows

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Speaker 2: what he's doing. But I would expect that from most

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Speaker 2: trial attorneys, and I just would say it is maybe unfair,

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Speaker 2: but you do compare. And when he speaks, you listen,

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Speaker 2: when he tells a story, you pay attention. That hasn't

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Speaker 2: been the case for me with the prosecution.

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Speaker 1: All right, folks, so we'll tell you where we are

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Speaker 1: right now. We are the as we speak, closing arguments continue.

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Speaker 1: Tipton On the defense side has finished the prosecution as

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Speaker 1: we speak. We're recording this a little before lunchtime. But

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Speaker 1: court started this morning. Jurors got part of their instruction,

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Speaker 1: then the closing arguments started. They are then going to

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Speaker 1: get some final instructions from this judge today and so

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Speaker 1: we believe she will have them start deliberating. If it

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Speaker 1: gets too late, maybe she just sends them home and

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Speaker 1: they start fresh on Monday, which some of them might

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Speaker 1: appreciate doing that, sleep on it over the weekend, but

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Speaker 1: that is where we are in the process today. So

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Speaker 1: Tipton gets up robes and he it seems odd obviously

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Speaker 1: we don't have a dog in the fight, but we

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Speaker 1: have watched almost every second of this trial, so I

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Speaker 1: feel like we have a good sense of how it's going.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and look, this is and we've heard from everyone,

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Speaker 2: and we've said this throughout our coverage that every attorney

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Speaker 2: agrees this. This is a almost it feels like impossible

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Speaker 2: case to defend because here you have a defendant who

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Speaker 2: has admitted to dismembering and disposing of his wife's body,

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Speaker 2: has admitted to lying to police. It's clear he manipulated

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Speaker 2: investigators and everyone around him. So how is this guy

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Speaker 2: believable when he says, Oopsie, I just walked in on

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Speaker 2: my wife's dead body and panicked. But I am impressed

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Speaker 2: and I have and we both have been impressed by

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Speaker 2: Tipton's ability to cast some doubt. One of the big

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Speaker 2: lines that stood out to me this morning he said

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Speaker 2: one statements, and it sat with me. Nothing violent happened

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Speaker 2: in that house. And then he went on in great

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Speaker 2: detail to talk about the lack of.

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Speaker 1: Evidence, you know, and he brought it home. We listened

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Speaker 1: to it all and we had to piece it together

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Speaker 1: because quite frankly, the prosecution was doing this, so we

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Speaker 1: had to figure out, Okay, they're saying this, so does

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Speaker 1: this mean this? So we had to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: He put it together today for the jurors and reminded them,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is for real. If something so violent

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Speaker 1: happened in that house, you telling me he cleaned up

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Speaker 1: so well that your investigators for days could find nothing

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Speaker 1: in the bedroom or the living room. We watch a

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Speaker 1: lot of true crime. They can't have a clean everything.

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Speaker 2: And he pointed out to the fact that obviously they

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Speaker 2: found some blood evidence of on a Walsh in the basement.

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Speaker 2: He's like you know, he was trying to clean the

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Speaker 2: basement because his searches specifically say how to clean blood

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Speaker 2: out of the basement, cement floor and all of that.

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Speaker 3: So he said, if he was so.

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Speaker 2: Good at cleaning the bathroom and the bedroom and the

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Speaker 2: other areas of the house, how is it that he

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Speaker 2: wasn't as good at cleaning up the basement.

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Speaker 3: Those two things don't make sense.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you can take that from a legal argument of

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Speaker 1: what that means. You can have lawyers argue about that,

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Speaker 1: or what does that mean to adjure? When I hear that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, Robes, the circumstances and his searches. Holy hell,

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Speaker 1: I was like, how's it go to get around this?

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Speaker 3: It felt insurmountable when you were hearing them.

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Speaker 1: His attorney's have given doubt. There is some doubt about

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Speaker 1: how this woman died. We don't know, but neither side

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Speaker 1: has proven how she died. And if you didn't prove

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Speaker 1: how she died, that means you didn't prove she was killed.

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Speaker 1: And if you didn't prove she was killed, Robes, what

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Speaker 1: is the jury going to do with this case?

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Speaker 2: It's the question of how much does common sense play

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Speaker 2: a role versus irrefutable evidence in facts versus what actually

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Speaker 2: is reasonable doubt, and that is what the jury is

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Speaker 2: going to have to figure out, and that is part

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Speaker 2: of the difficulty of this case. But I'm impressed that

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Speaker 2: there isn't There is even going to potentially be a

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Speaker 2: difficult decision for the jurors because it seemed as though

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Speaker 2: when we started this it was I know, prosecutors hate

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Speaker 2: to hear this word because they don't want to jinx themselves,

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Speaker 2: but it did appear to be a slam dunk case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, before reasonable doubt was created for us, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have it. When they started last week on this trial,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this, dude, those searches are insane. It's

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Speaker 1: almost you say common sense. Somebody sits and tells you

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Speaker 1: this story, Well, this is what happened on that night, Like,

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Speaker 1: come on, bro, what'd you do to your wife? Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: obviously you're going to say that that feels common sensical

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Speaker 1: until you get somebody like Larry Tipton to come in

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Speaker 1: and give you reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 2: And during the closing arguments that he made, Tipton pointed

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Speaker 2: out those searches and he had to, and I'm glad

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Speaker 2: he addressed them. Because to have ignored them or something

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Speaker 2: like that would have been terrible. So he actually said, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about these awful, horrible, unthinkable searches. He asks

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Speaker 2: the jurors. Then, and you appreciated this when he created

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Speaker 2: this testimony. To consider the timing. The searches about murder

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Speaker 2: and cleanup occurred six hours after Anna Walsh died, and

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Speaker 2: he said, consider that the first search was just how

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Speaker 2: to get rid of a body. And when he said,

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Speaker 2: you get search results that show funeral plots and coffins

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Speaker 2: and basic things when someone is about to be disposed

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Speaker 2: of in a legal technical way, of course, you're just

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Speaker 2: going to get those basic results. So he had to

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Speaker 2: use the word murder. Six hours later, he's claiming. The

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Speaker 2: defense is claiming because all the other searches weren't giving

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Speaker 2: him the information he needed.

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Speaker 1: Stop there is that ridiculous to think.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't considered it beforehand.

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Speaker 1: Because you know what he said to the jurors, he said,

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Speaker 1: we've all done that before. We had to get more

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Speaker 1: specific in our searches. To when he said that, like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I guess, I guess I have had to

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Speaker 1: do that before. Right, he's creating something in your mind.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't make you abandon common sense. It just gives

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Speaker 1: you some kind of reasonable doubt. A big part several lines.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go through a few of the things

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Speaker 1: he said, but wrote the passion, sympathy and anger. When

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Speaker 1: he told them you cannot convict this man because you

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Speaker 1: have sympathy for Annawash, or because you have anger at

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Speaker 1: Brian Walsh. That was effective because you do leave this

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Speaker 1: whole thing like, Wow, what a jerk he did this,

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Speaker 1: He did this, he's convicted of this crime, and just

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Speaker 1: be mad at him. You can't convictim because you're mad,

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Speaker 1: And you can't convictim because you've learned about her, how

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Speaker 1: hard she worked, how great of a mother she was.

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Speaker 1: You heard all these wonderful things, and you're sympathetic. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was effective.

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Speaker 3: I did too.

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Speaker 2: And he also really brought home this idea that the

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Speaker 2: prosecution did not prove motive, so they don't have a body.

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Speaker 2: They can't tell you how Anna Walsh died, but they

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Speaker 2: also cannot give you a actual reason that is provable

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Speaker 2: as to why Brian walshkeilter. And of course they were

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Speaker 2: trying to say that Brian Walsh, and they have been

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Speaker 2: saying that Brian Walsh knew about Anna Walsh's affair with

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Speaker 2: her lover and real fasto, and they claim that everything

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Speaker 2: he did, including saying he left his lost his cell phone,

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Speaker 2: was all premeditated. But I have to say Larry Tipton

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Speaker 2: did a great job saying they have not proven premeditation,

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Speaker 2: they have not proven a motive, And I kind of

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Speaker 2: have to agree with him on that.

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Speaker 1: Because right, it was supposed to be the affair or

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Speaker 1: it was money, right, I haven't seen Look, I watched this.

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Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in the position of a juror. Do

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Speaker 1: I know for sure that he knew about the affair?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: I do not. Do I know for sure that they

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Speaker 1: had some financial money issue and that was the reason

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Speaker 1: he killed her? No I those two things are off

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Speaker 1: the table. So now it was a juror, I'm looking, well,

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Speaker 1: why did he kill her? Like I want to believe

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Speaker 1: he killed her. I even if you believe he killed her,

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Speaker 1: why did he kill her? That's gonna that's gonna trip

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Speaker 1: them up, since they trip up, but that has gotta

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Speaker 1: be a point of even internal contention for each juror,

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Speaker 1: much less twelve sitting around a table.

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Speaker 2: And it was interesting to that point about having the

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Speaker 2: twelve people who are now going to have to deliberate

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Speaker 2: with one another and get on the same page. You

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Speaker 2: heard La Tipton tell the jury very early on in

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Speaker 2: his statement, like, don't be swayed basically if you believe that.

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Speaker 2: You know, he was literally talking to the individual juror

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Speaker 2: that if you have any doubt or you don't think

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Speaker 2: that makes sense, or you don't think this was proven,

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Speaker 2: you cannot be swayed by others. I mean, he really

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Speaker 2: he needs one juror, and it was very obvious he

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Speaker 2: knows he needs one juror, and he was trying to

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Speaker 2: reach out to maybe whoever that one juror is to

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Speaker 2: hold true to your convictions, to believe what you feel

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Speaker 2: in your heart, to not be swayed into thinking something

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Speaker 2: other than what you feel is correct.

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Speaker 1: He might already even know who the one is. They

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Speaker 1: pay attention to that jury box, how they're reacting, how

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Speaker 1: they're moving, who's taking the most notes, who gets emotional.

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Speaker 1: We always hear about that. You're right, he only needs one.

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Speaker 1: If I had to make a prediction, I am mistrial

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Speaker 1: in this thing right.

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Speaker 4: Now, Hungary, absolutely, I absolutely would say that because it's creed.

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Speaker 4: I cannot believe I'm saying it. But if they came

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Speaker 4: back not guilty, I don't know about that. They came

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Speaker 4: back guilty, I would say, I don't know about that.

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Speaker 1: So if there's if you're hung up only as a

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Speaker 1: legal matter, we have no dog in this fight. This

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Speaker 1: has been a fascinating one to watch tropes. But folks,

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Speaker 1: stay with us when we come back. We are going

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Speaker 1: to share with you. The other very powerful line that

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Speaker 1: Larry Tipton used at the end of his closing argument,

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Speaker 1: and his other most effective argument he made was based

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Speaker 1: around the word cherry picking. Stay here, all right, folks,

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Speaker 1: we continue here now in the Brian Walsh trial, which

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Speaker 1: robes I think pretty surprisingly. I don't want to go

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Speaker 1: as far as say shockingly, but maybe it's wrapping up

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Speaker 1: today closing arguments. We did not expect to be two

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Speaker 1: weeks in and this thing be wrapping up.

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Speaker 2: There have been a lot of shocking elements of this case. Yes,

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Speaker 2: how quickly they've gotten through everything. Also the fact that

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Speaker 2: the defense has made such a strong argument on behalf

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Speaker 2: of Brian Walsh that was completely shocking to me. And

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Speaker 2: the fact that they chose not to put on one witness,

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Speaker 2: not one person. We understand why they didn't put on

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Speaker 2: Brian Walsh, but I was shocked and so were a

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Speaker 2: lot of other legal experts that no one they called

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Speaker 2: no one Allah Sean Diddy Combe style, like, we feel

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Speaker 2: so good about our case and the prosecution we think

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Speaker 2: did such a poor job.

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Speaker 3: We don't even need to put anybody up. That was shocking.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there have been a lot of surprising elements

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Speaker 2: of this case throughout.

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Speaker 1: That was very a very confident move. I think we

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Speaker 1: were shocked. Our jaws dropped when Diddy didn't put on

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Speaker 1: any witnesses and it worked out beautifully for him. And

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Speaker 1: like our friends, our legal friends told us, you do

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Speaker 1: that because you think you've already won. There's nothing else

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Speaker 1: for them to do. So I don't know how confident

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Speaker 1: they feel. I started at the top about us feeling seen, right,

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Speaker 1: this is something you have been absolutely screaming about during

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Speaker 1: the entire prosecution case. Is that they're giving you, you

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Speaker 1: know what, all the searches even right, she had this

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Speaker 1: witness up there, she was in very monotone and said,

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Speaker 1: look at file two nine, da da da da, Will

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Speaker 1: you read that entry, he would read the search and

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Speaker 1: then she'd move on to the next one. These were

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Speaker 1: some of the most devastating lines and searches, blood on

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Speaker 1: a knife, DNA cleaning up, blood cleaning up after a murder,

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Speaker 1: hacksaw a body, all these things, and it was delivered

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Speaker 1: in such a monotone way, and then when it was over,

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Speaker 1: it was just over. And you had a feeling about

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Speaker 1: this throughout, And Larry Tipton pointed it out today, is

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Speaker 1: that they are just throwing thousands of points of data

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Speaker 1: at you and here's the word telling you but not

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Speaker 1: telling you what to think about it.

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Speaker 3: That was crazy to me.

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Speaker 2: They it was as if the execution didn't want to

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Speaker 2: lead the jury, like that's your job. You can't lead

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Speaker 2: a witness, but you're actually supposed to lead the jury

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Speaker 2: and tell them what to think and show them why

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Speaker 2: they should think this.

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Speaker 3: And she didn't do that.

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Speaker 2: Yes there was information, Yes there was evidence, Yes there

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Speaker 2: was really compelling testimony.

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Speaker 3: But when you don't.

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Speaker 2: Connect the dots for the jurors and expect them to

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Speaker 2: do that on their own, to.

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Speaker 3: Me, that made no sense.

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Speaker 1: And again we are not in any way, shape or

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Speaker 1: form critical of these career lawyers, prosecutors, they do this

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Speaker 1: for a living. They know what they're doing. What all

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Speaker 1: we can speak on as observers putting ourselves in the

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Speaker 1: position of a juror. That's yeah, it's our observation in

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Speaker 1: watching this is that we are walking away not really

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Speaker 1: sure of the prosecution case. I don't know what is

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Speaker 1: the theory of how she died? She died violently? What's

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Speaker 1: the n I see your mouth you could think, you

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Speaker 1: know what.

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Speaker 2: Larry Tipton even made a point to say that knife

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Speaker 2: they talk so much.

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Speaker 3: About, they didn't even care about it.

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Speaker 2: Enough to even do a follow up test on whether

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Speaker 2: or not it actually was blood, and they didn't confirm

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Speaker 2: whose DNA was on the blood. That's how little they

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Speaker 2: cared about that knife that they kept throwing in your face.

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Speaker 3: So he made excellent points.

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Speaker 2: And look we are and look we've made it very

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Speaker 2: clear we're not legal experts, but we have sat through

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Speaker 2: many trials, Babe. I have sat through so many murder cases,

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Speaker 2: so have you in local news, cable news, network news.

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Speaker 3: So we do have some perspective.

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Speaker 2: And it was shocking, at least from our perspective, what

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Speaker 2: the prosecutors chose to leave to the discretion of jurors.

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Speaker 3: That was confusing.

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Speaker 1: This might be a part of their strategy and it

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Speaker 1: did exactly what they wanted to do. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but this is where we're left. He wraps with this,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he's being very good and punching his

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Speaker 1: words and punching his lines when needed. But he made

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Speaker 1: a point at the end that there's no evidence. You

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Speaker 1: don't have evidence. You got evidence that he lied to belief,

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Speaker 1: you got evidence that he disposed of a.

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Speaker 3: Bible, and he acknowledged all of that.

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Speaker 1: I love it. There's no evidence of a murder. And

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Speaker 1: what he said was there's no evidence of anything but love.

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Speaker 1: And when he said it, it was it worked on

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Speaker 1: me in the moment because he had just framed robes

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Speaker 1: all these other things that Brian Walsh did that seemingly

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Speaker 1: were of a guy who loved his wife and was

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Speaker 1: planning for a future with his wife. Now, was it

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Speaker 1: all just to set up an alibi or something possible?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but the evidence and things he was

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Speaker 1: doing way before January one, the day she died, I

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Speaker 1: mean the dinner they talked about that he set up

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Speaker 1: and he lied to his parole officer about where he

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Speaker 1: was going to because he wanted to take his wife

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Speaker 1: to dinner. It was important enough for that.

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Speaker 2: That was and that was the first time I actually

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Speaker 2: heard that DOT connected because I was confused why the

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Speaker 2: prosecution had his parole officer or whoever was supposed to

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Speaker 2: be monitoring him and detailing clearly he said he was

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Speaker 2: doing something that he wasn't going to do.

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Speaker 3: Why would he do that?

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Speaker 2: She didn't offer a reason and other than he was

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Speaker 2: not being truthful. But I needed to understand why he

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Speaker 2: wasn't being truthful. And so then when the defense filled

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Speaker 2: in the leg he was wanting to take his wife

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Speaker 2: out to dinner, which he isn't allowed to do while

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Speaker 2: under house arrest. Now you're the first person who's given

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Speaker 2: me a reason why he was untruthful. And yes, we

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Speaker 2: heard from Tipton saying there is no evidence in all

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Speaker 2: of the digital data. And obviously this is a man

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Speaker 2: who wasn't thinking about his digital footprint, because he wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have made all those searches if he was thinking about

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Speaker 2: his digital footprint. But nowhere in any of that did

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Speaker 2: it show that he saw anything between Anna Walsh and

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Speaker 2: William Fasto.

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Speaker 3: He said there's no.

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Speaker 2: Evidence that he intended to kill his wife, there is

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Speaker 2: no evidence that he premeditated this murder whatsoever, And he said,

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Speaker 2: mister Walsh is not guilty.

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Speaker 1: Well, folks, this is how it goes right. Good lawyering

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Speaker 1: has us in this place. We're going to listen to

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Speaker 1: the protect We might come back and say who they

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Speaker 1: got them, They really brought it home. We will follow

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Speaker 1: up and we will be letting you all know what happens.

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Speaker 1: Later in the day. We will give you an episode

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Speaker 1: having to do with the prosecution closing statement, and we

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Speaker 1: expect the jury to get the case today. This is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe two weeks. Well, folk, we appreciate you

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Speaker 1: being long the way with us on this trial, and

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Speaker 1: stay with us our updates top right corner of that

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast app our show page. It says follow click

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Speaker 1: that button and the updates will come to you automatically,

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Speaker 1: don't have to go searching for them. We always appreciate

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Speaker 1: you spending some time with us. For my dear Amy Robot,

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Speaker 1: I'm TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to y'all soon.