Speaker 1: Welcome to Inside the Studio presented by iHeart Radio. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Joe Levy. Okay, it is December. We have
Speaker 1: almost made it through and certainly this year has been
Speaker 1: um and I'm trying to figure out how I could
Speaker 1: put this without cursing for the next forty or fifty minutes.
Speaker 1: But let's just say has been a difficult year. But
Speaker 1: it does bring us something special as it winds down,
Speaker 1: and that is a new album from the Australian duo
Speaker 1: The Avalanches. It is called We Will Always Love You.
Speaker 1: It's here and it's spectacular. And this is only the
Speaker 1: third album The Avalanches have released since their debut Since
Speaker 1: I Left You, twenty years ago, and and and each
Speaker 1: one of these albums is pretty much amazing. My friend
Speaker 1: Sasha fair Jones likes to say there one of the
Speaker 1: only groups to bat a thousand in the twenty one century,
Speaker 1: which I guess is actually a little easier if you
Speaker 1: average one album every six or seven years, but still
Speaker 1: part of what makes it so impressive is that each
Speaker 1: one of these albums has been a different kind of adventure.
Speaker 1: That debut Since I Left You came out in the
Speaker 1: year two thousand and it was lovingly constructed bit by
Speaker 1: bit out of about thirty five hundred samples of what
Speaker 1: Robbie Chader calls junk store records, which means samples that
Speaker 1: you don't recognize right away. So Since I Left You
Speaker 1: is a big favorite of Team Inside the Studio. Shout
Speaker 1: out to team leader Noel Brown, who took time out
Speaker 1: from talking about conspiracy theories on his podcast Stuff They
Speaker 1: Don't Want You To Know to make sure that he
Speaker 1: could be on production duty when we recorded this episode's
Speaker 1: interview with Robbie and Tony Deblasi. And you know, one
Speaker 1: reason I love Since I Left You is that some
Speaker 1: moments it sounds like what happens when you have two
Speaker 1: tabs open on your browser and they're both playing sound
Speaker 1: at the same time. But on the other hand, it
Speaker 1: had this out of left field hit Frontier Psychiatrist that
Speaker 1: had turntable scratching on it, so it sounded like it
Speaker 1: was put together by a live DJ. But but most
Speaker 1: of the album was just a seamless and sunshiny flow
Speaker 1: of really relaxed and easy grooves. What wasn't seamless, relaxed
Speaker 1: or easy was making a second album that took sixteen
Speaker 1: years The Avalanches did not release Wildflower until there were
Speaker 1: a lot of stops and starts along the way. They
Speaker 1: spent time assisting on the score for a musical version
Speaker 1: of King Kong that did eventually make it in some way,
Speaker 1: Shape Manner formed a Broadway, and they also worked on
Speaker 1: music for an animated film that's been described as a
Speaker 1: hip hop version of Yellow Submarine and that never saw
Speaker 1: the light of day. So wild Flower is sort of
Speaker 1: a concept album. If your I have a concept is
Speaker 1: a mixtape that you'd play in the car on a
Speaker 1: road trip from your apartment in the city to some
Speaker 1: sort of psychedelic countryside. And if the Avalanches never did
Speaker 1: get to make a hip hop version of Yellow Submarine,
Speaker 1: at least they got to make a hip hop version
Speaker 1: of The Beach Boys Smile, with guest appearances from rappers
Speaker 1: like Danny Brown and Bismarckee, Andy Rock luminaries like Father
Speaker 1: John Misty, David Berman, Tam and Paula's Kevin Parker, as
Speaker 1: well as a sample of a chorus of kids from
Speaker 1: a high school in Melbourne, Australia seeing the Beatles come together.
Speaker 1: Now it's just four years after wild Flower and we
Speaker 1: got a new album we Will Always Love You record
Speaker 1: time for the Avalanches, although this album almost didn't happen
Speaker 1: at all. Robbie talked with me about his issues with addiction,
Speaker 1: and he recently told The New York Times that after
Speaker 1: Wildflower came out, he'd been drinking again and he checked
Speaker 1: himself into detox and that was January of Seen, and
Speaker 1: had to cancel some tour dates, and he was thinking
Speaker 1: at that point the group might be over. But when
Speaker 1: he got out of rehab, he found that Tony had
Speaker 1: managed to do some touring without him, and and things
Speaker 1: were still going. There was still a band, He could
Speaker 1: go out on the road, He could play Coachella. So
Speaker 1: while every single Avalanches album has mixed joy and melancholy,
Speaker 1: the way both of those feelings are super charged on
Speaker 1: We Will Always Love You might have something to do
Speaker 1: with discovering that the everything you thought was gone, was over,
Speaker 1: was done, is still out there and better than ever.
Speaker 1: We Will Always Love You is a little less about samples,
Speaker 1: a little more about creating music the way most groups do. Drums, bass, keyboards,
Speaker 1: Johnny Marr from The Smiths dropping by to play guitar,
Speaker 1: Rivers Cuomo from Weezery doing some vocals. You know, the
Speaker 1: usual thing. The Avalanches are still obsessed with old records,
Speaker 1: but in a different way this time out. They talked
Speaker 1: with me about how their idea of something they call
Speaker 1: Forever Voices involves how dropping a needle on a record
Speaker 1: is like so many the spirit of someone or something
Speaker 1: that's departed. And we also talked about how a book
Speaker 1: called The Recording Angel by Evan Eisenberg helped shape the album.
Speaker 1: And we also talked about how every sound or singer
Speaker 1: ever broadcast on the radio is out there somewhere echoing
Speaker 1: an outer space. And speaking of outer space, we talked
Speaker 1: about the album's connection to NASA's Voyager space probes in
Speaker 1: nine seven. It was pretty cosmic. Here's what else they
Speaker 1: had to say. Tony and Robbie, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Welcome to inside the studio. Although we're all inside our
Speaker 1: respective homes, I think everybody's everybody's at home where I'm
Speaker 1: in New York, of course, and you're both where we're
Speaker 1: both in Melbourne. I was just about to say stuck in,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I but yeah, we are stuck.
Speaker 1: We are stuck in Melbourne. I think if we tried
Speaker 1: to leave, we would feel mine so so officially stuck.
Speaker 1: But you know that's okay. It's all it's all getting
Speaker 1: better and and and and it's Tuesday evening here in
Speaker 1: New York, and I guess it's Wednesday morning for Tuesday morning.
Speaker 1: This is so fantastic because we're about to talk about
Speaker 1: like interstellar sound vibrations, and now we're crossing the dateline.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm living in the future. This is
Speaker 1: all happening. It's kind of perfect. It is. We will
Speaker 1: always love you, and believe me, I appreciate it. Uh.
Speaker 1: This album is a little different for you, guys, and
Speaker 1: not just in that it took less than fifteen or
Speaker 1: sixteen years to make it, but you went about things
Speaker 1: a little differently this time. Like you can hear you
Speaker 1: listen to this, you hear the love of the dusty
Speaker 1: groove is still there, but things weren't necessarily constructed the
Speaker 1: same way. How the process change with this record for
Speaker 1: you guys. I think it began with like a very
Speaker 1: clear idea of what we wanted to make this time around,
Speaker 1: Whereas like the Journey of Wildflower, which you mentioned that
Speaker 1: took sixteen years, we're almost finding what that record was about.
Speaker 1: As we went along, and we took all the twists
Speaker 1: and turns, and um, I have to on the first
Speaker 1: cold meet. We got a little lost along the way
Speaker 1: and the end result was beautiful, but you know, it
Speaker 1: took a long time, just just a little a little lost.
Speaker 1: So yeah, with this record, it was a singular vision
Speaker 1: to make a record almost like exploring our own mortality
Speaker 1: and in a way, our own personal journeys, and so
Speaker 1: a very clear idea from the beginning, and that idea
Speaker 1: also had some very clear sonic images with it. So
Speaker 1: we wanted a shimmering record, maybe a more hi fi record,
Speaker 1: and a kind of a more modern sound and records,
Speaker 1: so we we still began working with samples, but then
Speaker 1: we added other instrumentation, and it was also a way
Speaker 1: for us to do something different and be not take
Speaker 1: another ten or fifteen years. Yeah, like we really felt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it was just searching for that const
Speaker 1: set of what Wildflower was about took so long that
Speaker 1: you know, especially Robbie and his infinite wisdom, was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to record a new record. We're going to
Speaker 1: work out what it's about before we even start, so
Speaker 1: we're not just searching around, you know, the sixteen years
Speaker 1: we're trying to find that. So we found it quite early,
Speaker 1: and you know, the results are four years later, which
Speaker 1: which is for us extremely short for post malone. That's
Speaker 1: like a decade or something that you know, well, so
Speaker 1: part of the difference obviously the samples are there. But
Speaker 1: but on this one, if you wanted a baseline or
Speaker 1: a keyboard part, you could play it. You could bring
Speaker 1: someone in to play it. Is that about right exactly? Well,
Speaker 1: it was our close friend and collaborator Andy, So myself
Speaker 1: to Tony and Andrew were kind of like, we're digging
Speaker 1: for samples. But Andy's fantastic keyboard players, so he would
Speaker 1: do a little chords sequences and sketches over some of
Speaker 1: the samples. I always just work with samples, so I'm
Speaker 1: always just add samples and samples and samples. But we
Speaker 1: weren't afraid to reach out to friends and bring other
Speaker 1: people in. And a guy John Kyl Kirby, fantastic keyboard
Speaker 1: player and at Los Angeles, and it was just a
Speaker 1: way for us. I think it sounds selfish, but the
Speaker 1: process of making wealth that is kind of like and
Speaker 1: since I left you there, they're lonely long processes. You're
Speaker 1: at home digging, digging, dig and dig and digging, and
Speaker 1: it goes on for years. So we kind of thought
Speaker 1: like it was just as much about the life experience
Speaker 1: for us as well, like let's hang out with real
Speaker 1: people in the studio, you know, and get their energy
Speaker 1: and learn how they make records and learn things and
Speaker 1: enjoy the making of it, and um, you know, have
Speaker 1: a wonderful life experience as well as making a record
Speaker 1: quickly hanging out with real people. We're talking about the
Speaker 1: other collaborators on this record. You got to record in
Speaker 1: in Melbourne, but also in in Los Angeles, and and
Speaker 1: and you've got to work face to face with is
Speaker 1: it feels almost like a science fiction world right now,
Speaker 1: right because when's the last time we were all in
Speaker 1: a studio face to face working, right, But those collaborators,
Speaker 1: let's let's let's talk about some of that and and
Speaker 1: how much different it was to go in and make
Speaker 1: a song as opposed to build a track layer by layer. Well,
Speaker 1: I think, I mean personally, for me, I only know
Speaker 1: how to work one way. And that's like since I
Speaker 1: was like fifteen or something like, I'm I play a
Speaker 1: lot of instruments really badly, right, So I'm kind of
Speaker 1: an amateur musician, and sampling was like how for me
Speaker 1: personally I figured out this is your Sampling was how
Speaker 1: I figured out this is how I can express myself.
Speaker 1: This is my thing, and I'm going to get really
Speaker 1: good at this. And so I always just learned how
Speaker 1: to build in layers and how to add layers of
Speaker 1: pain and like putting this jigsaw together. And so when
Speaker 1: we're working with singers now, like I feel like I
Speaker 1: still work in similar kind of way. Um, but it's
Speaker 1: just using I guess the singers as as samples as well,
Speaker 1: like even the way that you know we'll get a
Speaker 1: vocal back and it's never just like oh, lay that
Speaker 1: over the track as the track got sent to them.
Speaker 1: It's especially Robbie will just take it away and chop
Speaker 1: it up and all of a sudden, chorus is in
Speaker 1: a different spot and you know, some words are messed
Speaker 1: around with. So it's still like this process of using
Speaker 1: the vocalists as samples, not just having them kind of
Speaker 1: singing over a sample. Better. So cool about it. And
Speaker 1: I think came to the process knowing how we work,
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't be in the studio, I would say,
Speaker 1: give me a minute. I would run and chop up
Speaker 1: the take they've just done for play it back to them.
Speaker 1: Then they would like hang out, maybe listen to it
Speaker 1: for an hour or two, respond to that edit, and
Speaker 1: do another vocal take. And it was his beautiful back
Speaker 1: and forth thing. So you said that the theme and
Speaker 1: direction of this record was more clear from the start,
Speaker 1: and and let's talk about what that theme was. I
Speaker 1: know part of the focus is something you call forever Voices.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? I guess it's something we just
Speaker 1: started thinking about as we were diving into this record
Speaker 1: and thinking about guys who have always sampled music. I
Speaker 1: love thinking about how, you know, we might grab old
Speaker 1: record recording from the forties and there's someone someone's voice
Speaker 1: captured on that and they've obviously long since passed away,
Speaker 1: but their voice remains like a beautiful ghost for a
Speaker 1: beautiful spirit. And I often think about, well, what was
Speaker 1: going on in their life at the time. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like a beautiful little time capsule or message from
Speaker 1: the past of someone's whole life and their pain and
Speaker 1: their experience captured in a song. And then maybe that's
Speaker 1: seven inch record. I was just gonna say, it's like
Speaker 1: they're living forever too. It's it's they're always with us
Speaker 1: and they never die because their voice is still there
Speaker 1: in this beautiful um. Sorry and then um and like
Speaker 1: obviously when we sample on vinyl, like maybe someone else
Speaker 1: has owned that recording for like twenty or thirty years
Speaker 1: and played at a bunch of time and times and
Speaker 1: spilled wine on it or added crackles to it, and
Speaker 1: maybe going through a break up, you know, and due
Speaker 1: to you talking about the user kind of imprinting their
Speaker 1: imprinting them the listener, the user imprinting their own touch
Speaker 1: on the vinyl they've owned. They put their stylus on it,
Speaker 1: and maybe they put some tears on it, spuilt some
Speaker 1: wine on it. That's right, that's right. Played at a
Speaker 1: hundred times, it's got dusty, and that's how the dusty
Speaker 1: sound comes from. And it's like they're impasting their life.
Speaker 1: And then you know there their life onto it as well,
Speaker 1: and their experiences with that music they're imparting onto the
Speaker 1: actual vinyl that we end up in. Say so, it's
Speaker 1: a lovely thought, and then and then it makes it's
Speaker 1: very humbling as well because then we're just another part
Speaker 1: of that process. We find the record in sample it,
Speaker 1: put it into a song, and it gets broadcast out
Speaker 1: into the radio, and then someone else is driving along
Speaker 1: in their car that day and they hear it and
Speaker 1: it's part of their life, and it's just a big
Speaker 1: cycle of life, you know. So it's a lovely thought.
Speaker 1: So the ghost voice is is every recording out there.
Speaker 1: It's or the forever voice that is every recording out there.
Speaker 1: Is is in a way that the first recording is
Speaker 1: a form of sampling and the listening is a form
Speaker 1: of adding to that. But there's also this uh interstellar concept,
Speaker 1: right the the idea that sound waves go out into
Speaker 1: the ethos, literally into space. And you're very specifically referencing
Speaker 1: the sending out of sound recordings on the Voyager pro
Speaker 1: back in because the cover of the record is this
Speaker 1: image of Andy Dreen, who worked on putting that record together.
Speaker 1: What's what's called the the Golden Golden Record on the
Speaker 1: Voyager Space prep which is such a great such a
Speaker 1: great title, so rich too. But but tell me a
Speaker 1: little about that. How did you come to that story
Speaker 1: and and and what does that mean to you? Well?
Speaker 1: I think, um like on this whole We're on this
Speaker 1: whole sort of wherever voices tangent and then um, I
Speaker 1: was reading a lot about you know, radio broadcast from
Speaker 1: planet Earth and how every record, every song ever played
Speaker 1: on the radio is still floating out there in space.
Speaker 1: And you can kind of calculate actually from the data
Speaker 1: was broadcast, how far that those vibrations would have traveled from,
Speaker 1: how many light years you know, they would have traveled
Speaker 1: from now, and so that you know, you can picture
Speaker 1: planet like a radio station just floating around out there,
Speaker 1: and Elvis is floating up there, and John Lennon and
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like all these beautiful spirits out
Speaker 1: there singing to the cosmos since it's it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: And then as we were sort of going deeper into
Speaker 1: this record, we came across the story of the Voyager
Speaker 1: Golden Record, and I think Nassa had approached Annie and
Speaker 1: Carl Sagan to compile it in the end of the seventies,
Speaker 1: and they went on this kind of epic quest to
Speaker 1: because I think they felt such responsibility. You know, it's like,
Speaker 1: how do we sum up the sounds and life of
Speaker 1: planet Earth on one golden disc? That's going to be
Speaker 1: out there floating around in the Coustmos forever in case
Speaker 1: it's actually ever found by intelligent life. So they began
Speaker 1: this process of compiling this record, and as they were
Speaker 1: compiling it, they fell in love and and had had
Speaker 1: the idea to record her and brain waves and heart
Speaker 1: waves and have them imprinted on the record as well,
Speaker 1: so maybe intelligence civilizations would learn about our biology if
Speaker 1: they ever found this record. And the day she was
Speaker 1: booked to have the scans for that cow proposed to her.
Speaker 1: So um, she says that, um, the sound of a
Speaker 1: young woman's heart in love has brother captured and put
Speaker 1: on that record, and we'll be floating out there in
Speaker 1: the Costmos for like a billion years. So this is
Speaker 1: this is really an amazing story. And and I got
Speaker 1: a kind of deep into it. I think it's a
Speaker 1: day or two before they record her brain waves that
Speaker 1: he proposes. But the added level to that is that
Speaker 1: they knew each other. They knew each other, but they
Speaker 1: weren't going out. They never kissed. They're on the phone, right,
Speaker 1: they're not sitting in the same room, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we should get married. An amazing story.
Speaker 1: And then she comes back to him after that and says,
Speaker 1: is there a way to capture my brand waves on
Speaker 1: an audio recording? And they capture her brain waves while
Speaker 1: she's geeking out on on love Now, isn't that? Isn't
Speaker 1: that the most beautiful thing you've ever heard? I mean,
Speaker 1: see this is used to happen. Well, there's there's that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the Voyagers story for for for anyone who doesn't
Speaker 1: know it, the the idea is that they put this
Speaker 1: album in gold on the side of this space probe.
Speaker 1: There are two albums, because there are two space probes,
Speaker 1: Voyager one and two. I think they're about fourteen billion
Speaker 1: miles away by now. But they put all this music
Speaker 1: and all these greetings from different people around the globe
Speaker 1: and different languages, but chuck berries on their Mozarts, on
Speaker 1: their Louis Armstrong's on there. I think there's like wild
Speaker 1: sounds and old cons of different things. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: and not only is it called the Gold Record, but
Speaker 1: did you know this? The engineer for this record Jimmy Ivan,
Speaker 1: oh really yeah, better known for running Interscope Records and
Speaker 1: sending out M and M and fifty cent into the
Speaker 1: world and sending this thing to space, but he engineers
Speaker 1: the recordings, right, well, it is it is a you know,
Speaker 1: I guess you know, human mixtape, so that that kind
Speaker 1: of ties in with that. No, absolutely so. So this
Speaker 1: story comes up on on the right, I mean her
Speaker 1: images on the cover of the album, and it's this
Speaker 1: amazing image is a picture of her. She's either coming
Speaker 1: into focus or sort of dissolving into digital dust as
Speaker 1: it were. I'm not quite sure which it is. It's
Speaker 1: quite beautiful. Yeah, thanks, it is really beautiful. And that's
Speaker 1: our friend Jonathan Sawada, who was exploring I guess we
Speaker 1: were speaking to him about the whole uh, the whole
Speaker 1: thought process about transmissions and recordings, um, not just traveling
Speaker 1: through time but also potentially through space and through other dimensions.
Speaker 1: I mean I got interested as well in like mediums
Speaker 1: who claimed to contact people who had passed and record
Speaker 1: their voices and stuff like that, and that these strange,
Speaker 1: staticky transmissions and you know, I mean YouTube is full
Speaker 1: of them. And the guy was swearing, it's like that
Speaker 1: is that's Karen Carpeter's voice. I've been communicating with her
Speaker 1: and you can hear her very clearly, you know, say
Speaker 1: this or that. But anyway, I was talking to Jonathan
Speaker 1: about this stuff, and so he got this old black
Speaker 1: and white photograph of Van and ran it through a
Speaker 1: spectrograph which turns it into sound. And then I think, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the various color frequencies are laid out on
Speaker 1: this sorry, the sound frequencies are aligned to different colors
Speaker 1: on the spectrum, and then it's turned back into an
Speaker 1: image again and that's the result you get. It's extremely beautiful. Wow.
Speaker 1: So so the picture has been transferred into sound waves
Speaker 1: and then transferred back into image. Amazing, absolutely amazing. And
Speaker 1: again that Carl Carl Sagan and and love story comes
Speaker 1: up on the track Interstellar Love with Leon Bridges. Is
Speaker 1: that right? That's right. I mean, it's part of it,
Speaker 1: you know, because we were I was just talking to
Speaker 1: Leon about what this record is all about, and we
Speaker 1: were hanging out in the studio and he obviously the
Speaker 1: song means has its own meaning to him, but it
Speaker 1: was part of the bad story as we were as
Speaker 1: we were developing the idea. Yeah, this notion of forever
Speaker 1: voices and the and the ghost images, the ghost voices
Speaker 1: that you were just talking about on YouTube. That's fascinating
Speaker 1: because the album begins with a track called ghost Story,
Speaker 1: which is a phone message right from someone who wants
Speaker 1: us to know they'll always love us, and we're it's
Speaker 1: so hard when we're not together. And I kept thinking
Speaker 1: when I was listening to it, you guys must have
Speaker 1: recorded this record with a different world in mind than
Speaker 1: the one we live in. But when that's the first
Speaker 1: thing you hear when you sit down to play this record,
Speaker 1: it it really feels almost like a social distancing concept
Speaker 1: album from the start, because we are not together now, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's strange. I mean, it's lovely that you say that,
Speaker 1: and it's strange the way it worked out. I think
Speaker 1: it was. I read of a find of very beautiful
Speaker 1: book in a junk store called The Recording Angel, and
Speaker 1: there's a chapter called Solitary Ceremonies, and in um the
Speaker 1: writer talks about that solitary thing is sitting down and
Speaker 1: like playing a record, and it's almost like a sayan
Speaker 1: someone where summoning goes and it's this process we all
Speaker 1: know very intimately from being teenagers in our bedroom and
Speaker 1: you know your you know music is. I love the
Speaker 1: way it can be very very extremely personal but extremely
Speaker 1: social at the same time. You can experience it at
Speaker 1: a festival with twenty people, but it can also be
Speaker 1: this thing where you're listening to a record on your
Speaker 1: own when you got a broken heart it or you're
Speaker 1: lonely and it can comfort you, you know. So that
Speaker 1: we were exploring those, some of those inner journeys and
Speaker 1: some of those inner moments, and I guess it's just
Speaker 1: aligned perfectly with that the loneliness that we're all kind
Speaker 1: of feeling at the moment, you know. Um, and it's
Speaker 1: if it's a record about connection, you're right, maybe it's
Speaker 1: it's um, it's resonating right now. But but in some sense,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, have you made this with
Speaker 1: the idea of, oh, it'll be summer, we'll be able
Speaker 1: to go out and play some festivals, see some people.
Speaker 1: It was supposed to come out in May or June
Speaker 1: or something and we and we were going to be
Speaker 1: playing in Europe and so but we've we've had a
Speaker 1: massive you know, pretty much all year we've been locked down.
Speaker 1: So so a lot of this record, I mean, we
Speaker 1: we've made it before the lockdown, but a lot of
Speaker 1: the process of releasing everything was um done during a
Speaker 1: really really hard lockdown. So it was it was like
Speaker 1: an average you to kind of also reach out to
Speaker 1: the world by putting out all these singles beforehand that
Speaker 1: we weren't meant to be releasing so many, but because
Speaker 1: everything got um pushed back because of the final plants
Speaker 1: weren't printing and stuff like that, it was like we
Speaker 1: were able to just um communicate in that way by
Speaker 1: you know, putting out songs every couple of months. So
Speaker 1: that was that was not really nice feeling to do
Speaker 1: while we were ourselves like locked in our apartments. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned this has a slightly more modern feel to it,
Speaker 1: a modern sound to it. When we say more modern,
Speaker 1: how how modern are we talking? All I really mean
Speaker 1: is like more base or something like that, you know, you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Robbie always says that it's like, but modern, it just
Speaker 1: means we've got to be played some basement, so it's
Speaker 1: got some motumand because the listen has since I left
Speaker 1: you and it's all just sitting for top range and yes,
Speaker 1: so I guess it's just using more of the musical
Speaker 1: spectrum um that I think that we would call modern. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly I hear some nineties on this record.
Speaker 1: You work with Tricky on two songs, and particularly until
Speaker 1: Daylight Comes that that song has a classic Tricky trip
Speaker 1: hop feel to it. But but also you know there
Speaker 1: there's there's the song with Blood Orange, the title track
Speaker 1: we Will Always Love You has that trip hop feel
Speaker 1: as well. How how important were those records in the
Speaker 1: in the mid nineties, do you extremely important? Extreme? Like
Speaker 1: Tricky's first record was something I listened to over and
Speaker 1: over and was kind of like, you know, just my
Speaker 1: young brain was like, how do how's this record made?
Speaker 1: How's this put together? I was just fascinated, you know.
Speaker 1: So that records are that very informative and our first,
Speaker 1: my first experience of sample based music, you know, along
Speaker 1: with some other records. So it's incredible to come full
Speaker 1: circle now and work with someone like him. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that that first Tricky record we're talking about, Max and Quay,
Speaker 1: did you hear that and understand it as a sample
Speaker 1: based or understand the importance of samples on that record?
Speaker 1: Because it was only reading about it afterwards that that
Speaker 1: I heard any of that in that music. It It
Speaker 1: wasn't immediately apparent, I thought, but no, I it was
Speaker 1: to me. I was like, I think my ears just
Speaker 1: pricked up. It like when something's just a bit um,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like something's going on here, you know,
Speaker 1: there's like if there's a collage element. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just immediately drawn to it. It's funny like I
Speaker 1: remember like, um, Big Audio Dynamite had a couple of
Speaker 1: big radio pop singles in Australia like when I was young,
Speaker 1: and it's the same thing. I just remember going like,
Speaker 1: how how is this isn't normal music? What's going on here?
Speaker 1: Just fascinated how it was put together not normal music
Speaker 1: because Big Audio Dynamite Mick Jones band, he'd come out
Speaker 1: of the guitar bass drums band, and certainly that was
Speaker 1: open to technology and used it. But Big Audio Dynamite
Speaker 1: was a very early example of what you could do
Speaker 1: with machines instead of just instruments, and and so you
Speaker 1: mentioned that. But Mick Jones turns up on this record
Speaker 1: on a track called We Go On which features Kola Boy.
Speaker 1: And also that is that in fact Karen Carpenter sample
Speaker 1: Karen Carpenter singing hurting each other? It is is it
Speaker 1: is so So that's another one of the what we
Speaker 1: call the kind of spirit ghost samples that you know,
Speaker 1: it's like she's being passed for a long time, but
Speaker 1: she's still in this new song that we've got just
Speaker 1: about to come out. So yeah, we love, we love
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And it was so good having um,
Speaker 1: Mick Jones and Cola Boy, who's just a legend on there.
Speaker 1: But Mick, Mick was a real surprise for that song
Speaker 1: because we've kind of set out just the word that
Speaker 1: you know, we'd love to get him on a track,
Speaker 1: and I didn't really hear anything back, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, we get an email saying, oh, by
Speaker 1: the way, he's Mick Jones's vocal over this track, Like
Speaker 1: how did this happen? You know, you just have to
Speaker 1: you just have to pinch yourself sometimes and go, oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's that's him. And then you listen to
Speaker 1: his voice over the track and it's so unique that
Speaker 1: you know, you just keep listening. Um, you know, we
Speaker 1: just feel blessed when things like that that happened. I'm
Speaker 1: working with such like Angel and what drew you to
Speaker 1: that current Carpenter sample? I think it was that was
Speaker 1: a sample that we had from years ago from the
Speaker 1: wild for our years and back then we used to
Speaker 1: put them on CD and share the CED's with each
Speaker 1: other and listen to the samples like the mixtapes. But
Speaker 1: I think it's just a very sad, very sad, beautiful line,
Speaker 1: and it carries it's got a lot of weight. You know,
Speaker 1: we're considering her story and her life and um, you know,
Speaker 1: like I love lines like that, like in the title
Speaker 1: track from the Roaches sample We'll always love you, or
Speaker 1: you know, we go on hurting each other, and it
Speaker 1: just says so much. But it's still like it's very
Speaker 1: much up to the listener to um imprint their own
Speaker 1: life story over it, and it will mean different things
Speaker 1: to different people. You know. To me, it means just
Speaker 1: how cruel cruel people can how you know, as a species,
Speaker 1: whether it can be very kind on an individual level,
Speaker 1: but um, as a collective, you know, we're still probably
Speaker 1: mean to the planet and to each other, and we've
Speaker 1: got a lot of growing up to do. That's what
Speaker 1: it means to me. But but there's always there's always
Speaker 1: with samples like that, there's always I don't know, for me,
Speaker 1: there's always just a bit of touch of hope with
Speaker 1: the way they sang like they're they're not completely. Just
Speaker 1: everything's horrible. It's it's like everything's horrible, but why why
Speaker 1: can't we fix it? Like so there's it's just the
Speaker 1: way they sung, they still have just that tiny little
Speaker 1: bit of positivity to them and that little bit of
Speaker 1: joy with them that um that we kind of really resonate,
Speaker 1: you know, like like that little space between melancholy and
Speaker 1: kind of happiness and that beautiful kind of when you
Speaker 1: can get that right and there's just something that hits
Speaker 1: you right in the heart, that's that's a beautiful feeling. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: it is such a great example that Carpenter's song of
Speaker 1: the California Sunshine pop that has a darkness underneath it,
Speaker 1: and not very far underneath it either. Um, it is
Speaker 1: right there in the lyric of the song. And it
Speaker 1: it also interested me so much when I heard it
Speaker 1: because it I recognized it without place. I must have
Speaker 1: played it two or three times. I know that song.
Speaker 1: I know that song. I know that's a grew up
Speaker 1: on that song. I finally understood it was always on
Speaker 1: the radio or my older sister was playing it. But
Speaker 1: here it is. I've never heard it quite this way before. Um,
Speaker 1: and the added level that it is the Wrecking Crew,
Speaker 1: the Phil Spector, Brian Wilson Studio band playing on as well.
Speaker 1: So there's quite a lot going on there. We get
Speaker 1: to work with some great artists, even if they're not
Speaker 1: aware that they're working with us, but you know, you
Speaker 1: certainly do. On this record. There there are so many fast.
Speaker 1: I mean, we mentioned mc jones, but Johnny mar and
Speaker 1: mg M T. You're on a track, the Divine Cord.
Speaker 1: You you worked with Tricky, you worked with Rivers, Cuomo Cornelius, Uh,
Speaker 1: the amazing Japanese artist. Uh. How did how did these
Speaker 1: come to beout together? You? You? You said you put
Speaker 1: the word out and Mick Jones came back kind of magically,
Speaker 1: But tell me about how some of these other things
Speaker 1: came together. It must have been a little more direct
Speaker 1: than that. Most of them were. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: some people like Cornelius is a friend, so that was
Speaker 1: just a lovely coincidence. And I think we met him
Speaker 1: back he put out a record called Phantasma around the
Speaker 1: same time since I left. You came out a couple
Speaker 1: of years before actually, so we met him in Japan
Speaker 1: way back when, and obviously we've always just really loved
Speaker 1: his work and he just happened to be in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: It was my birthday, and he came by the studio
Speaker 1: and then this song just sort of appeared. So that
Speaker 1: was kind of one of those beautiful coincidences, you know,
Speaker 1: that was that was just such a quiet guy and
Speaker 1: it was amazing that like that, this is one of
Speaker 1: their being in the studio and watching someone perform and
Speaker 1: being really blown away because there were maybe ten people
Speaker 1: watching him and he just got out lata and so
Speaker 1: the track would just go and he just do like
Speaker 1: a little and then he'd be like play that back
Speaker 1: and then he'd add a little bit more to that.
Speaker 1: And then about six takes later a year like everyone's
Speaker 1: going we get it. Like at the start, we're kind
Speaker 1: of looking at each other, going, what's what's he doing?
Speaker 1: And then by the end of the track, he's built
Speaker 1: this whole thing that he had going on in his
Speaker 1: head and it just, I mean, it just came out amazing,
Speaker 1: and you know that that's the real joy of being
Speaker 1: in a studio with someone and watching an amazing talent
Speaker 1: just do their thing and how inspiring that is. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he created like a whole guitar a painting. Yeah, one
Speaker 1: note at a time, and there there's notes stacked on
Speaker 1: top of each other. They're moving linear and so it's
Speaker 1: they're kind of like cascading over each other and ringing
Speaker 1: over each other. So he must have had whole picture
Speaker 1: in his head before he began. But I think some
Speaker 1: of the Los Angeles studio engineers were hanging out, like,
Speaker 1: we've been very excited because Kago was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he'd record, and we all organized the guitar. You
Speaker 1: were just watching him, said this guy was amazing, like
Speaker 1: what's he doing? And then by the was like, oh
Speaker 1: my goodness. But it's such a love, yes, such a sweetheart.
Speaker 1: So that that that's the kind of moments, said you,
Speaker 1: you know, like I'll always remember. And that's the joy
Speaker 1: of doing what we do and stuff that we never
Speaker 1: take for granted, of witnessing things like that. That's a
Speaker 1: special moment in your life. And yeah, we love that.
Speaker 1: So Rivers Cuomo from Weezer turns up on running red
Speaker 1: lights and and and there's this old story that Rivers
Speaker 1: used to tell about keeping all his melodies. He had
Speaker 1: a master notebook of all his melodies, and he knew
Speaker 1: they were all gold, and he had them cataloged and
Speaker 1: he could refer to them. But apparently from from what
Speaker 1: you've said, he now does the same sort of thing
Speaker 1: with his lyrics. Yeah, it's a PDF and it got
Speaker 1: sent to us and it just had the emotion and
Speaker 1: she beautiful. Kind of Actually, the reason, just rewinding a little,
Speaker 1: the reason we wanted to work with Rivers is because
Speaker 1: of that beautiful midpoint Tony mentioned earlier halfway between happy
Speaker 1: and said that melancholies place, and that's I feel like
Speaker 1: he gets that, and that comes to me. That lineage
Speaker 1: is directly like from Brian Wilson. You know, people like
Speaker 1: that two Rivers here, Yeah, that that beautiful place where
Speaker 1: you know, it's like life is so beautiful but it
Speaker 1: hurts so much at the same time, and so and
Speaker 1: all these little phrases in this spreadsheet kind of were
Speaker 1: like that that you would just read them in your
Speaker 1: heartward break And I've been running around the red lights
Speaker 1: to get to you might be one of them, you know.
Speaker 1: And there was a bunch there, and I think it
Speaker 1: was like you guys can choose, choose one, choose, so
Speaker 1: that there were three that got sent back, and I
Speaker 1: don't think there were the melodies first they were just lyrics,
Speaker 1: so it was like three sets of just kind of
Speaker 1: chorus lyrics, and we were like, can we hear the
Speaker 1: melodies before we choose, So he ended up singing just
Speaker 1: pretty quite roughly that you know, roughly for him is
Speaker 1: still pretty amazing, each three of the little verses, and
Speaker 1: in the end we were like, can we have them all?
Speaker 1: Because they're all amazing, So we ended up kind of
Speaker 1: working each three into the song. Um, and yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just it just turned out so good, and that
Speaker 1: was that was kind of the first, i think the
Speaker 1: first vocal colab that we we had. So we were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's keep going with this. This is working, this is good.
Speaker 1: And the three that you worked into the song where
Speaker 1: those the three rough takes that he had centered did
Speaker 1: did you? Did he find them further? For you? Here
Speaker 1: we find them further And then um, we also went
Speaker 1: back and asked him to just record a little bit
Speaker 1: of stuff into his phone for like an interlude stuff
Speaker 1: a bit like the album open, and he did that
Speaker 1: as well. Rivers was fantastic. Um that bit didn't actually
Speaker 1: make the record, but yeah, absolutely fantastic. And we got
Speaker 1: we got to meet him too, because that was a
Speaker 1: lot of them were done when we were together, but
Speaker 1: that one was done fire email. But they came and
Speaker 1: played in Melbourne maybe a couple of months after that.
Speaker 1: So we got to meet him and you know, we
Speaker 1: we were like, this is Rivers. We gotta you know, googled,
Speaker 1: you know, all these amazing cool places in Melbourne for hours,
Speaker 1: like where were going to take and we're got to
Speaker 1: impress him. And in the end we just kind of
Speaker 1: it was a rainy day and he's just like, you
Speaker 1: just want to walk around in the rain. So we
Speaker 1: got some umbrellas, made his hotel and just walked around
Speaker 1: and then setting a Starbucks for an hour and talked
Speaker 1: and then we went and it was like, still an
Speaker 1: amazing experience, but all these cool dinner options and bar
Speaker 1: options and everything like that, it was like, no, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to do any of you for the world's
Speaker 1: greatest sushi or we go to Starbucks in the rain exactly,
Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, walk around Melbourne with umbrellas in the rain.
Speaker 1: So that, I mean, that was just perfect. That was
Speaker 1: so pardi so Rivers that that track running Red Lights.
Speaker 1: It brings me to something I want to ask you about,
Speaker 1: David Berman, he was a collaborator. Uh, he read a
Speaker 1: poem on Saturday night inside out the last track on Wildflowers. Um,
Speaker 1: and sadly he took his own life last year. It's
Speaker 1: a loss that hit a lot of people so hard
Speaker 1: because he just put out his first album in a decade, uh,
Speaker 1: Purple Mountains album, and it was a fantastic album. And
Speaker 1: a lyric from one of the songs on that album
Speaker 1: comes up on your album on a track called dial
Speaker 1: d for Devotion, and then it flows into that river
Speaker 1: song running Red Lights. Uh and and and part of
Speaker 1: that lyric goes, the light of my life is going
Speaker 1: out tonight without a flicker of regret. And I want
Speaker 1: to ask you, what what kind of person? How well
Speaker 1: did you know David? What kind of person was he?
Speaker 1: And what made you turn to that lyric? It's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to answer. I guess I mean
Speaker 1: to be perfectly transparent. Um. Part of the reason why
Speaker 1: Wildflower took so long as because, uh, some my shoes
Speaker 1: with addiction personally, and I and I first thought really on, well, um,
Speaker 1: we're drinking as a very young person, like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,
Speaker 1: and by the time I was twenty, i'd nearly I
Speaker 1: was it was nearly game over for me. Um I
Speaker 1: nearly died, and then I eventually when I first got well,
Speaker 1: I threw myself into making music. And that was since
Speaker 1: I left you and Um. I had a long long
Speaker 1: time have been very healthy and very well, and then
Speaker 1: unfortunately fell back into a period of addiction. As we
Speaker 1: were making Wildflower, and I've been corresponding with David about
Speaker 1: working together, and that's in a strange way, that's how
Speaker 1: our relationship began, was corresponding, and he was kind of
Speaker 1: he helped me through and he would write me beautiful
Speaker 1: emails and sometimes just practical advice about how to look
Speaker 1: after myself when when I was struggling, and so we
Speaker 1: formed because he had his he had his own struggles
Speaker 1: with you know, he just spoke to me from a
Speaker 1: personal experience, and I would guess that's not my place
Speaker 1: to talk about what his journey, but he UM certainly
Speaker 1: was very, very wonderful and caring to me, and we
Speaker 1: were those lyrics you mentioned on Saturday Night inside Out.
Speaker 1: That was something we worked on remotely during the making
Speaker 1: a wild Flower, and I remembered that period very well
Speaker 1: because I was very unwell, and his lyrics would come
Speaker 1: through sometimes and in this poem and I was sometimes
Speaker 1: I would edit parts of it and send it back
Speaker 1: and it kind of just kept me going. Um. So
Speaker 1: that's how our relationship began, and it was it was correspondence,
Speaker 1: and we often talked. He often talked about coming to
Speaker 1: Australia and you know, he ah, they never did after that.
Speaker 1: But um, that's that's how I knew David and he
Speaker 1: I just knew him as just a very very beautiful
Speaker 1: man who was very very generous and whose work just
Speaker 1: touched me more deeply than you know, than i've I've
Speaker 1: really I'm really touched like that, you know. And his
Speaker 1: book Actual Air is very very beautiful as well. And
Speaker 1: um so he's just was an expiring artist who I
Speaker 1: was very fortunate enough to get to know in a
Speaker 1: small way. And then, um, we were speaking about doing
Speaker 1: more music for this current album, and he sent some
Speaker 1: of the lyrics for a Yeah, the Purple Mountains record
Speaker 1: in advance, and then a couple of them ended up
Speaker 1: fitting UM for different pieces on on our record and
Speaker 1: for the Pink Cepoo verse in Running Red Lights, and
Speaker 1: David was happy for us to use them, um and
Speaker 1: which was lovely is lovely? That that through line from
Speaker 1: the previous album to this album, um and then you know,
Speaker 1: sadly he passed. The music came at, came out, but
Speaker 1: it was just so amazing that we're actually able to
Speaker 1: get still just a piece of David on this record
Speaker 1: before it did passed. I do also want to say
Speaker 1: we're back to this idea of the happy and the
Speaker 1: sad together because one thing he was so good at
Speaker 1: was there's an element of humor that runs through so
Speaker 1: much of what he does. And and that that that
Speaker 1: line that that it's in it's in the song the
Speaker 1: light of my life is going out tonight, which could
Speaker 1: mean a couple of different things, and in fact, in
Speaker 1: the song it does mean a couple of different things.
Speaker 1: The light of his life that's going out tonight is
Speaker 1: someone he's in love with, right, That's one of the
Speaker 1: meetings in the song. And so it comes to this line,
Speaker 1: the light of my life is going out tonight in
Speaker 1: a pink champagne corvette. You know, he loved the the
Speaker 1: funny and clever wordplay of country classic song, classic country
Speaker 1: songs that that meant so much to him, and it
Speaker 1: really is in that Purple Mountains record. Um. And and
Speaker 1: that was another devastating thing about his loss, was that
Speaker 1: he'd made this wonderful record that said so much about
Speaker 1: how to keep going and how to use humor and
Speaker 1: and your mind to transform the darkness. Yes, exactly, you
Speaker 1: just said it better than I have a cold. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that line, I mean, god, it's just such a
Speaker 1: gorgeous line, isn't it, like without a flicker of regret?
Speaker 1: And the white ends and I mean he just what
Speaker 1: do you? What do you make? Talent? So there's an
Speaker 1: idea that that comes up, I think a couple of
Speaker 1: times on the record that the idea of music is
Speaker 1: a kind of divine force. There's Music Makes Me High, um,
Speaker 1: which has a real classic disco feel feel to it.
Speaker 1: And there's also a song called Music Is the Light,
Speaker 1: which has a bit more of a Ladies and Gentlemen,
Speaker 1: we are floating in space kind of feel. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I guess we could also include the attractive features Perry
Speaker 1: Farrell Oh the Sun, where he's singing about the divine designer. Um,
Speaker 1: So what what what? What are you? What are you saying? Here?
Speaker 1: Is is music the answer to life's problems? Or is
Speaker 1: it just another one of the forever voices acting us sometimes?
Speaker 1: What's what's the deal? So, I mean it's a very
Speaker 1: personal thing, but for me it's it's it's transformative music transformative,
Speaker 1: you know, and it can it can change the way
Speaker 1: I see the world completely a certain song on a
Speaker 1: certain morning, Um, and I'm just looking at life completely differently,
Speaker 1: you know, the way the way it can hit you
Speaker 1: and the way it can feels at a vibration or level.
Speaker 1: So um and I love breaking down to a very
Speaker 1: simple element of what music is just vibration where all
Speaker 1: we're all made up of Adams vibrating around. Of course
Speaker 1: it affects us profoundly, you know. And it's like and
Speaker 1: some music just has a different like beautiful music has
Speaker 1: a different vibration to say heavy metal, which is great
Speaker 1: in its way, but it's going to hit you in
Speaker 1: a different thing. So I don't know, like all these
Speaker 1: vibrations are kind of coming and hitting you and you're
Speaker 1: accepting in whatever mood you're in. If you're a little
Speaker 1: bit sad, it's sad song is just gonna make you feel,
Speaker 1: you know, amazing. And so it's like how you resonate
Speaker 1: with how our vibration resonates with the vibration of music.
Speaker 1: It's just a beautiful thing. Well, I I want to
Speaker 1: thank you for making some music that transforms things for
Speaker 1: the rest of us. Uh, And I know this wasn't
Speaker 1: the goal, but I also want to thank you for
Speaker 1: making a perfect album. For sitting on your couch with
Speaker 1: a cat on your lap, staring out the window and
Speaker 1: wondering if the world has gone to hell yet. I
Speaker 1: love that, thank you because that that that was the
Speaker 1: way I experienced part of this. And it turns out
Speaker 1: it hasn't gone to hell yet, and the music is
Speaker 1: awfully good, and I feel like it's picking up. I
Speaker 1: feel I feel like there is a there's a mood
Speaker 1: lifting in the world, the idea of a vaccine, and
Speaker 1: a lot of people seem to be happy that Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's gone. So I feel like that they, you know,
Speaker 1: in the collective count busness of humanity, we've taken a
Speaker 1: little bit of a step up. Hopefully it continues, but
Speaker 1: it's so who knows, how's your cat going? Joe? Has
Speaker 1: he been good or she's been good? Companion? It's both,
Speaker 1: it's a he and she. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: asking because now we've come to something I really like
Speaker 1: to talk about. It's a brother and a sister. Uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're they're doing well. They've been very good companions. Uh.
Speaker 1: And like your record, they will always love me. I've
Speaker 1: had the same. I leave by myself and just have
Speaker 1: my cat and she has kept me through these years.
Speaker 1: So it's it's animals with Joy. Well, I've got to
Speaker 1: tell you with the cats, they will love us until
Speaker 1: we don't feed them and then they will lead us.
Speaker 1: But now so true, for now, they do love us.
Speaker 1: Um and and guys again, sincerely, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for this record. It is a great thing to hear
Speaker 1: right now and a great thing to have right now,
Speaker 1: and it really is wonderful. Joy, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Joe. Yeah, great chat. Yeah, than thanks for
Speaker 1: being here, Thanks for being on Inside the Studio, Thanks
Speaker 1: for having us, Thank you for having us. Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio is a production of I Heart Radio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, check out the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.