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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of the

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: These are some of our favorite segments from this week,

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Speaker 1: all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza. Uh yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist. I gotta

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Speaker 1: give a shout out to a zeit gang Geist listener,

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Speaker 1: Smooth Lou I believe is the name Smooth Lou, who

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Speaker 1: solved the mystery? Did you see this on Twitter?

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Speaker 3: Wait?

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Speaker 4: What was it?

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Speaker 1: Grand Puba? It's a Grand Puba track from nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 4: I guess. And did you go back and you checked

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Speaker 4: it out?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely that's the song.

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Speaker 4: Oh wait, wasn't it was just a check on two thousand?

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why it took us so long. I

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Speaker 4: guess it like didn't didn't really hit that.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Wow wow Yeah, check out that song. It's okay, kind

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Speaker 4: of it's kind of good. I wow. Stand to buy

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Speaker 4: my reference two.

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Speaker 6: Thousand Yeah, I still love Okay, the energy is still there.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 6: Shout out hiking. Honestly, you guys, fucking between all of y'all,

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Speaker 6: we don't need Google and we could have googled it,

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Speaker 6: but it was hard to just google two thousand song lyric.

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Speaker 1: Really so Smooth Lou great, great Twitter handle even better

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Speaker 1: at saving my ass from making it seem like I

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Speaker 1: was referencing a Billy Joel's song.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Smooth Lou, we owe you a hamburger.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Smooth Lou came through with that said, I got you, fan,

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Speaker 1: thanks for all you do. And then somebody else came

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Speaker 1: through and vouch for Smooth Lou. Was like, pretty cool, dude,

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Speaker 1: I miss you Smooth Lou like no forever, so much

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Speaker 1: love to Smooth Lou. Wow, this one goes out to you.

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Speaker 1: All right, Miles, it's a special episode. We're talking labor,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking.

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Speaker 4: I'm still blown away that smooth loop. I mean, did

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Speaker 4: you hear it? You know?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I started playing a little a second ago and I'm

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Speaker 6: like this speaks Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, big poopa head over here.

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Speaker 6: Yeah damn all right, anyway, sorry, anyway, Back to you,

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Speaker 6: Jack and back to you, Miles.

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Speaker 4: Yep, No, back to you, to you fam this episode

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Speaker 4: we are no and I'm still gonna go back to you. Pal.

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Speaker 4: Shoulders are loose, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Shoulders loose, head on a swivel. Yeah, the Hipscott Honey,

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Speaker 1: so it's time. You know what that means, It's time

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Speaker 1: to be thrilled to be joining our third See professor

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Speaker 1: of Alaska Native Languages at the University of Alaska Southeast,

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Speaker 1: the host of the podcast The Tongue Unbroken from Next

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Speaker 1: the Next Up Initiative.

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Speaker 4: Please welcome doctor who Lance Twitch. Hi, It's me.

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Speaker 7: I'm the problem. I'm colonization. How's it going. It's so

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Speaker 7: good to do you good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, good to have you back.

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Speaker 7: You know, someone tried AI with our thing it language.

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Speaker 7: There was no there's a reporter here in Juno for

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Speaker 7: the Juno Empire, and so she had entered a short

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Speaker 7: she wrote a short story and then she entered it

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Speaker 7: into this thing that that had the Clinket language as

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Speaker 7: an option, and then she sent it to me. She said,

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Speaker 7: could you just take a look at this? And I said, well,

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Speaker 7: those are words, but it's just grabbing words and just

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Speaker 7: putting them at random, including my name, like my name

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Speaker 7: was in the story like ten times. And so I said, wow,

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Speaker 7: it's just complete gibberish. It makes no sense.

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Speaker 6: So the computer like from it, from it trying to

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Speaker 6: glean information about cling it that it found your name

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Speaker 6: and it's like Okay, so this must also be part

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Speaker 6: of the mix. Yeah, yeah, and here we go, here's

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Speaker 6: your story. Wait, I didn't you read what It was

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Speaker 6: truly out of order? Just like yeah, yeah, there's a

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Speaker 6: couple of words. But like one of the big problems

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Speaker 6: is when you change a urb in our language is

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Speaker 6: it changes a lot. And so to be able to

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Speaker 6: man you could you could develop something that could manufacture

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Speaker 6: stuff in our language, but you would have to spend

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Speaker 6: a lot of hours. And so what it seems like

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Speaker 6: it did is found a dictionary and just sort of

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Speaker 6: grab words but never really looked at what they mean,

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Speaker 6: I guess. And so it's just like here's a bunch

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Speaker 6: of words, here's a word salad, and that's your story.

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Speaker 4: So you know, task complete. Yeah, I mean that's good.

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Speaker 6: Get to know that AI is still right now, it's

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Speaker 6: only fucking up like English.

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Speaker 7: Yeah right, and so but it's probably coming for everything eventually.

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Speaker 7: And so but maybe maybe there's a world where you

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Speaker 7: have someone to talk to because with our with our language,

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Speaker 7: we have about forty people left who could speak, so

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Speaker 7: it does get pretty scary. And we have a language

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Speaker 7: north of us that's called Ea that lost its last

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Speaker 7: living bird speaker, and when she was the only speaker

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Speaker 7: for quite a while, she would say, I talked to

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Speaker 7: my TV, I talked to the walls. I talked to God,

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Speaker 7: and nobody talks to me. So like, what we're trying

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Speaker 7: to do is like keep that from happening. So I

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Speaker 7: started with a Taylor Swift take on a Taylor Swift

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Speaker 7: song because I thought, maybe if we can get the

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Speaker 7: Swifties and the Beehive on board with decolonization, right like

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Speaker 7: they they've got so much energy and commitment, and so

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Speaker 7: I think maybe we'll get somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it definitely makes sense for Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 1: I feel like she her career has gone from being

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Speaker 1: just like ah shucks.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm just kind of a good songwriter to

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Speaker 1: like she We've like witnessed her waking up a little

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Speaker 1: bit to the complexities of the modern world. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know at least, Yeah, you know, which isn't isn't

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Speaker 1: that her?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's why I got those new albums Private equities,

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Speaker 6: because version Baby, private equity, All lines go back.

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Speaker 1: There, even a bro clock, you know. Yeah, what is

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Speaker 1: something from your search history that is.

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Speaker 4: Who you are?

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Speaker 8: My search history is chaotic and just like so I

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Speaker 8: looked at it and was like, oh, this screams helped me.

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Speaker 8: I was looking up asexuality, the difference between attraction and desire,

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Speaker 8: but I was also looking at STI rates in America

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Speaker 8: and non toxic condoms.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so asexuality SDI rates non Wait, so wait, what

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Speaker 6: are toxic condoms?

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Speaker 8: Most condoms are owned by the most condom companies are

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Speaker 8: owned by the same five companies, And if you get

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Speaker 8: a box, you'll notice that it doesn't have ingredients listed

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Speaker 8: on them, but they do have ingredients that're just not

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Speaker 8: required to which is really crazy, and a lot of

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Speaker 8: the ingredients are harmful, irritating, or in some cases toxic.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that, Like I do all this.

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Speaker 8: Research for the show that I have, and I just

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Speaker 8: interviewed these ladies who have a non toxic condom company,

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Speaker 8: and I had the same reaction. I said, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 8: right right right, I've, like, you know, been with a

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Speaker 8: toxic dood or two.

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Speaker 5: But I didn't realize.

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Speaker 8: I was, yeah, that seems like something I can control.

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Speaker 8: So yeah, things like parabins or preservatives, Like why would

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Speaker 8: a condom have preservatives for.

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Speaker 4: The flavor, keep it fresh.

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Speaker 8: You're not wrong, Yeah, you're not wrong. But if it's

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Speaker 8: just if you just have like just latex and just silicone,

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Speaker 8: right right, don't need those other.

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Speaker 4: Things, right, So what is it preserving? Exactly? The patriarchy?

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Speaker 8: I didn't no, no, no, bad ass, Like that's really

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Speaker 8: what it is.

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Speaker 4: It's like, it's like, I don't know, it doesn't fuck

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Speaker 4: the guy up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Basically, it's just like all those memes about like is

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Speaker 8: he worth risking your pH over this? It's like, no,

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Speaker 8: that's really accurate, right truly, I know. So anyway, that's

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Speaker 8: how I spend my time.

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Speaker 4: There you go, Jango. What's something you think is overrated?

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Speaker 9: Oh my god, Well this is going to kind of

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Speaker 9: fly in the face of my whole summer tomatoes love.

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Speaker 9: But I am coming to the conclusion these last couple

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Speaker 9: of years that I think the season of summer is overrated.

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Speaker 9: I think, no shit, yeah, well there you go. It's

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Speaker 9: a consensus. I think it's just too hot. People are

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Speaker 9: a little too weird and angry. In New York City especially.

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Speaker 9: It just kind of like bucks the brain chemistry a little.

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Speaker 9: So I think as I get older, I'm quickly transitioning

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Speaker 9: to a fall man. I think falls where it's at

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Speaker 9: falls where all the dreams come true.

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Speaker 5: Summer is just sticky, repetitive, day in day out. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: rain falling apart. Can't sleep at night, three showers a day,

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Speaker 5: I just can't take anymore. Guys, you're a fall guy,

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Speaker 5: the fall guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it is like we it gets

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Speaker 1: really positive media. Like we were talking about how heat

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Speaker 1: waves the deadliest weather event in the United States year

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Speaker 1: and year out, and the photographs that get like posted

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Speaker 1: next to that story and the news is like children

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Speaker 1: playing in a sprinkler, like drinking out of a fire hoser, right, not.

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Speaker 4: People at the beach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like going to the beach or just somebody sweating

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Speaker 1: while pouring water on their head. So it's like, but yeah, summer,

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Speaker 1: I mean, in addition to just like the straight up

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Speaker 1: heat deaths, like violence always rises during the summer bedtime.

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Speaker 5: They should show the beer.

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Speaker 9: Ll should be like a guy freaking out of the subway,

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Speaker 9: like my car's not working, my car's not working, my

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Speaker 9: car's not working, Like yeah, losing his mind.

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Speaker 5: That's what summer kind of vokes for me.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting too, how climate change is just completely

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Speaker 6: souring people now on seasons that used to be like

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Speaker 6: the cool one, like like it used to be like

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Speaker 6: no one would ever. I think summer is overrated unless

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Speaker 6: you're like someone was, like I get burned easily. But

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Speaker 6: now it's truly it's like it's fucking unbearable at times

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Speaker 6: outside and that isn't a good feeling. But I wonder

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Speaker 6: if then that swings with like winter, when we get

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Speaker 6: like more intense winters and we're like, yeah, fuck the

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Speaker 6: Arctic freezes that we have every six months too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, got a lot in store. It seems like what's

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Speaker 4: what's something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 5: Oh? Boys, strap in for this one.

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Speaker 9: I've become all about room temperature water. Okay, I think

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Speaker 9: I think I want my water the same temperature as

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Speaker 9: my bi I don't want it hurting my teeth. I

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Speaker 9: don't want space and my refrigerator, my tiny New York

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Speaker 9: refrigerator filled. So lately it's been a pitcher.

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Speaker 2: Of water on the counter, you know, a nice eighty

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Speaker 2: degrees pound it easy.

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Speaker 5: That's that's my approach going forward.

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Speaker 4: So it's a sipping thing.

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Speaker 6: It's more like you're doing like an F one pit

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Speaker 6: stop just to get the hydration quickly.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, purely, efficient, efficiently, and also like I think like

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Speaker 9: this in this in the same way the media hypes

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Speaker 9: up summer, the media will hype up glistening cold glasses

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Speaker 9: of water with perfect, perfect cubic ice cube.

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Speaker 5: But I don't think that's about it. I think waters

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Speaker 5: be nice, nice and mild, so it's not to offend

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Speaker 5: my delicate sensibilities.

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Speaker 6: I can I feel like I can only drink ice water.

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Speaker 6: I don't know why. I just like it feels. I

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Speaker 6: think that's how in my mind I elevate ice like

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Speaker 6: water to like a fun thing. It's cold and nice

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Speaker 6: and crisp. But now I can just drink jugs of it.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, yeah, body temp water, all right, I'll try it.

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Speaker 6: I'll think of it in the way of like, it's

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Speaker 6: more about how can I get it down quickly?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm alos like neurotic drink a shill out of

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Speaker 9: water every day, guys, So I think it just makes

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Speaker 9: it easier for me. So maybe if you have more

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Speaker 9: like pleasurable relationship with water, it would be different, But

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Speaker 9: for me, it's all about the function.

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Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, Why do I think room temp water

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Speaker 1: is like drinks slower than cold water. Is that just

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Speaker 1: because that my preference is cold water? I'm not sure,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I think I can like just hammer back

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Speaker 1: a lot of cold water, and room temp water is

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Speaker 1: like harder to get down.

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Speaker 5: Don't you ever get the shivers?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: A little bit. You're like, I'm a delicate little flour.

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Speaker 5: I think it's the lesson we're learning here, is I really?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like, don't the water can't be too hot

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Speaker 6: or too cold now, it has to be just around

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Speaker 6: the temperature of his internal organs.

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Speaker 1: Something related to what you said about tooth pain that

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Speaker 1: I've just discovered is underrated for me is sensitive toothpaste.

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Speaker 1: I was I wasn't for some reason. I was just

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Speaker 1: not not paying attention to that as an option. I've

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Speaker 1: started using it lately, and my teeth don't hurt anymore

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Speaker 1: when I when I eat stuff that's cold or so.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I thought I picture, I like I limped lumped sensitive

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Speaker 1: toothpaste in with elderly toothpaste for some reason.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, people with dentures, Yeah, that's how it started, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean.

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Speaker 6: But we all, we all got those little sensitive spots

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Speaker 6: you know, sometimes it's better to do it like that.

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Speaker 4: You got a G T A five poster behind you.

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Speaker 2: I was just me, oh Jesus, now this is south

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Speaker 2: South Vietnam, North Vietnam, A great, great.

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Speaker 5: Place for the g T A franchise to go far

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Speaker 5: jacking people.

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Speaker 6: Yeah right, exactly the fall of Saigon. Okay, because there's

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Speaker 6: a there's like that little peninsul at the bottom. Because

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Speaker 6: I'm so yeah, game brained, I'm a GT.

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Speaker 5: Five mat bro totally yeah. Yeah yeah. It does have

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Speaker 5: a little icons like banks and safe houses.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, cool, cool, cool.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and talk about and imploding presidential campaign. We'll be

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Speaker 1: right back, and we're back, and we are thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be joined in air third Seed by a very friend

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Speaker 1: of comedian, writer, executive producer, TV host and labor organizer

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Speaker 1: who you know from Adam Ruins everything his podcast factually

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Speaker 1: and being out in these streets picketing, acting as member

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Speaker 1: of the negotiating committee, serving on the w.

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Speaker 4: GA West Board of Directors. It's Adam Connor, and.

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Speaker 10: That that was all my credits. I have a lot

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Speaker 10: of time them have those things. I'm not doing now

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Speaker 10: because I'm on strike. I'm not a TV host right now.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean things nascent.

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Speaker 3: When it's all over, I'll be back on your screens,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 4: There you go, yes, yes, yes, Well thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine this is a busy time for you

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I was just sounds like I got nothing going on.

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Speaker 10: I was just out on the street nel for for

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Speaker 10: three four hours. Ninety degree he with a sign, talking

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Speaker 10: to people. It's a blast, man, It's I'm having so

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Speaker 10: much fun out there. The solidarity feels so good. It's

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Speaker 10: just it's great.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I mean people are making sacrifices, you know.

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Speaker 10: But there's our political directors, a wonderful woman, Rachel Torres.

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Speaker 3: She's brilliant.

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Speaker 10: She told me, you know, if you're smiling while you're sacrificing,

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Speaker 10: if you're having a good time while you're making the sacrifice,

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Speaker 10: then they can't beat you. And I think that that

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Speaker 10: is really true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, big cheerleader smiles out there on the Yeah, great, people,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a party.

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Speaker 10: A guy brought a sound system to Netflix and now

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Speaker 10: he's playing like sort of mid tempo like dance music.

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Speaker 10: You know, it feels like kind of that outdoor day

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Speaker 10: club like pool club kind of people almost feel like

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Speaker 10: they should be having frozen cocktails walking around like it's

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Speaker 10: just the vibes are good. And then he's like remixed

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Speaker 10: like people giving speeches like fran Dresser's speech. Someone told

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Speaker 10: me he like remixed one of my tiktoks into a song.

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Speaker 3: Of like you know, so you want to pick a line,

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Speaker 3: lil lil, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you sent them a takedown notice immediately.

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Speaker 4: I'm yeah, better who signed off?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean we were talking with this feels

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Speaker 1: like a huge moment for labor. These are you know,

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Speaker 1: with the w g A some of the most influential

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Speaker 1: like unionized union protected workers on the planet. But with

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Speaker 1: with actors, with the Screen Actors Guild, you know, the.

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Speaker 10: Faces, the beauty, beauty and brains coming.

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Speaker 3: Together, you know.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know, just kind of thinking about this,

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Speaker 1: think about the history of labor and unions in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: It feels like Hollywood to this point. The fact that

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Speaker 1: unions have been a presence in Hollywood for as long

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Speaker 1: as they have. It's a great learning moment for why

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Speaker 1: capitalism doesn't work without unions basically.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well.

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Speaker 3: It's an open question where the capitalism works at all,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 11: And I think you're arguing, yeah, like unions are the

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Speaker 11: thing that keep people from being like, oh, Marx was

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Speaker 11: definitely right, yeah, yeah, right right.

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Speaker 10: I mean, look, I sort of don't get into Marxism socialism.

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Speaker 10: I don't do isms. I just know that the union

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Speaker 10: and the union structure is the only way to fight back, right,

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Speaker 10: and so so I you know, the union is a

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Speaker 10: hammer and I grabbed the hammer and I start smashing

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Speaker 10: ship and it's it's really fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: So, I mean the only reason people even think of writing, acting,

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Speaker 10: directing as.

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Speaker 3: Being lucrative jobs.

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Speaker 10: You know, like if you say, oh, my cousin's a

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Speaker 10: actor in LA, you might be, oh, he's if he's working,

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Speaker 10: he's making good money.

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Speaker 3: Right, That's what the assumption is.

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Speaker 10: That's only because we've got strong unions in this town

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Speaker 10: for ninety years. The Writer School was founded ninety years ago,

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Speaker 10: and it's only because those unions went on strung. The

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Speaker 10: last time the writers and actors went on strike together

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Speaker 10: was nineteen sixty and in that negotiation, we won our

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Speaker 10: health and pension plans, and we won the existence of

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Speaker 10: residual payments, which are the payments we get every time

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Speaker 10: the product is aired. Right, and that's why I have

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Speaker 10: a health and pension today is because they went on strike.

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Speaker 10: Then that's why I've gotten residuals to help tide me

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Speaker 10: through the slow periods of my career. Is because of

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Speaker 10: those actors and writers going on strike. And so now

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Speaker 10: it's our turn to do the same thing, and that's

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Speaker 10: why we're out there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: As a thought experiment, I was trying to think of, like,

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Speaker 1: what do we think the last ninety years of movies

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Speaker 1: and TV look like if the industries were never unionized.

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Speaker 10: YouTube looks like YouTube, you know, people barely scraping by,

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Speaker 10: or it looks like I mean, look at Korea for instance,

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Speaker 10: there was or the anime industry, right, those are two

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Speaker 10: extremely popular. You know, they make a lot of media

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Speaker 10: that's consumed by a lot of people, and the people

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Speaker 10: who make the media aren't able to make a living.

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Speaker 10: There was a great piece in La Times a couple

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Speaker 10: of weeks ago about how the guy who created squid Game,

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Speaker 10: you know, they and Netflix trotted this guy's story out

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Speaker 10: as a hero story. You know, Oh, he tried to

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Speaker 10: make the show for ten years and he couldn't make

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Speaker 10: it until Netflix gave him a chance.

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Speaker 3: They became a worldwide hit.

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Speaker 10: Right that guy made from the first season, which was

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Speaker 10: a again worldwide smash like Game of Thrones level, you know,

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Speaker 10: people watching it, he made two hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's you know, that's a good living. Right.

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Speaker 10: That's not what you should get if you made the

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Speaker 10: most popular show ever, right, And that's the guy who

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Speaker 10: created the show, the people who worked on the shows,

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Speaker 10: and the people who create you know, your more average

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Speaker 10: K dramas, right that. You know, you know, I hear

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Speaker 10: about one or two K K dramas or K comedies

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Speaker 10: a year, but you know the ones that are a

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Speaker 10: little further down the down the pipe, that that the

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Speaker 10: the real fans watch. Those people are literally not making

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Speaker 10: a living making television. They are writing those shows in

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Speaker 10: between their day jobs or they're working eighteen hour days,

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Speaker 10: and then when the show ends, they're just like, well,

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Speaker 10: back to my day job.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 10: And this this article, you can look up La Times,

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Speaker 10: you know, squid Game Korean Google that and you'll find

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Speaker 10: the article goes into really long detail on that. And

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Speaker 10: the reason is there's no unions and Netflix is exploiting that.

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Speaker 10: I mean they talk about Netflix came into that market

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Speaker 10: and said, oh, we want to you know, spread Korean

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Speaker 10: content around the world, and they created a lot of work.

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Speaker 10: They created a lot of shows, but no one's being

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Speaker 10: paid because the stand the work standards are so abysmal.

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Speaker 10: It's sweatshop media unfortunately.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I had no idea that that was the thing.

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Speaker 6: I mean again, obviously because a lot of Korean media

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Speaker 6: is so good that I was like, oh, yeah, is

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Speaker 6: a natural progression of things. And then I remember, oh,

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Speaker 6: Netflix is going in like but there was a moment

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Speaker 6: I was like, oh, they're going in like to the

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Speaker 6: point where I was like, oh, they might. They're really

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Speaker 6: trying to put their foot down in Korea. I had

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Speaker 6: no ideas because they're like, yeah, man.

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Speaker 4: You can get away with anything over here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 10: I mean, it's just like it's a car company, you know,

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Speaker 10: moving to Mexico, right, or to any other or you

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Speaker 10: know Nike in Bangladesh, right, it's uh there they are

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Speaker 10: taking advantage of poor work standards to get the product

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Speaker 10: a lot cheaper.

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Speaker 3: And you know, why do the companies love anime?

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Speaker 10: You know, it's awesome as an American you know, someone

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Speaker 10: who grew up you know, trading VHS tapes of anime

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Speaker 10: that it's like popular in the US now it's popular

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Speaker 10: around the world.

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Speaker 3: That's great. But I mean, you guys know that.

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Speaker 10: Horrible conditions that anime has made in I mean people,

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Speaker 10: people die in that industry.

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Speaker 6: Make jokes about it. I remember, and I was like,

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Speaker 6: is that a joke or is that one of those

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Speaker 6: Simpsons jokes? So they're like, no, no, no, that's real.

440
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,719
Speaker 3: It's awful. It's awful.

441
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 10: And that's one of the reasons they're pumping it out,

442
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 10: is they is they feel that they can, you know,

443
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 10: get more content for less dollars.

444
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 3: Now. The thing about that, though, is that.

445
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 10: American American media is still the most popular valuable media

446
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 10: in the world.

447
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 3: Right.

448
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 10: It's still what people want to watch, like from a

449
00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 10: big budget thing like Avatar to right to you know,

450
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 10: even you know, reruns of old sitcoms. Right, people are

451
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 10: still watching Friends in Australia, you know, yeah, and Ireland.

452
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and new shows as well.

453
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 10: Right, that is what people want to watch more than

454
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 10: anything else, both in America and around the world. And

455
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 10: one of the reasons for that is because the entertainment

456
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 10: industry has been the only place that paid creators fairly

457
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 10: for the last hundred years. You know, if you are

458
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 10: a great writer and you want to make if you

459
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 10: want to if you want to buy a big house

460
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 10: of your writing, you know, where are you gonna go.

461
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 10: Are you gonna work in journalism? Are you going to

462
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 10: work in novels? No, You're going to go try to

463
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 10: sell a big movie script.

464
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 5: Right.

465
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 10: That's been the pattern in Hollywood up until basically the

466
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 10: early two thousands, where you had the best writer literally

467
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 10: Faulkner and Fitzgerald came to Hollywood right to write movies.

468
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 10: And you know, to think about, well they both drank

469
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 10: themselves to death, but too much money.

470
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know that was that was the way

471
00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: it worked.

472
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 10: And the companies have broke in that compact, and as

473
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 10: a result, the content is getting worse. Unfortunately, you know,

474
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 10: we're entering this Marvel period where they're trying to you know,

475
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 10: they're saying, oh, the actor doesn't matter, the writing doesn't matter.

476
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 3: All that matters is Spider Man.

477
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 10: People will go to see Spider Man no matter what,

478
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 10: you know, no matter who's in the suit, no matter

479
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 10: what he's saying, right, and it's not actually true because

480
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 10: you know, look at what happened with The Flash, right,

481
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 10: they realize they can't just cram in superheroes and expect

482
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 10: people to show up. But you know, all that that

483
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 10: makes the CEOs think is they need to pump harder.

484
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 10: They need to you know, get more blood out of

485
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 10: that stone. But so these companies are destroying the compact.

486
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 10: And why did the compact work because the unions. We

487
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 10: had strong unions here that that you know, meant we

488
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 10: had good working nditions, meant people wanted to move here

489
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 10: to Los Angeles or to New York to make the content.

490
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 10: And we're fighting to change that to make it the

491
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 10: way it should be.

492
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: I feel like The Flash is a good example of

493
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, the Flash recently came out. Indiana Jones recently

494
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: came out and the primary complaint that you heard from

495
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: them is creepy CGI, like terrible, weird CGI that take

496
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: takes you out of it, and like effects are a

497
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: frequent complaint and you hear people like wonder why, like

498
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: how this happens on some of these movies. They spent

499
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: three hundred million dollars in effects and it's at least

500
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: partially because the effects houses are not unionized. If that

501
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: is not a part of the industry that is protected,

502
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: and so you have situations where the effects house that

503
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: won the Oscar for Life of Pie is out of

504
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: business by the time they get the award.

505
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 4: You know, you know if you.

506
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 10: Talk to I've talked to people who work at effects

507
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 10: houses for Marvel, and they're treated terribly. You know, they're

508
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 10: they're asked to do impossible things on impossible turnarounds that

509
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 10: you know, well, we want we want to like this. No,

510
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 10: we want to like this. You have to change everything,

511
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 10: but we're not going to pay you more, and you

512
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 10: have so much time to do it. You know that

513
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 10: kind of request. The people who work at these companies,

514
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 10: you know that their careers last five years and then

515
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 10: they burn out because they can't do it anymore. It's

516
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 10: like video games, and you know, the proof is in

517
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 10: the pudding. But also you know, we're we're in a

518
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 10: new era of the special effects. Right, it used to

519
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 10: be the special effects the CGI was there to impress

520
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 10: and delight the audience. Right, Oh my god, look at

521
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 10: the terminator and terminator too, right, he's melting. He's the

522
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 10: Melting Man, it's look how cool or toy story right,

523
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 10: Look how great it looks.

524
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: Now they use it as a cost cutting device.

525
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 10: They use it in order to they're like, oh, if

526
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 10: we just like send it all to a VFX house

527
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 10: that's not Union and make them do all the work,

528
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 10: it's a lot cheaper. You know, if you look at

529
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 10: the difference between Look the New Mission Impossible, Right, I

530
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 10: saw it.

531
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: Look it's not a good movie, but.

532
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: You don't think it's an accurate depiction of AI.

533
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 10: It is interesting that the villain is AI. Right, but

534
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 10: the script is I don't want to get into it.

535
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: Right.

536
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 10: But the action scenes, right, It's got these two incredible

537
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 10: action sequences that are totally worth seeing in a theater.

538
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 10: Had people hooting and hollering great time. And why did

539
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 10: they work so well? Because they fucking happened in real life,

540
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 10: because they put in the effort and the craft and

541
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 10: the time to you know, go to the place and

542
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 10: do the stunt and shoot the thing, or to build

543
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 10: the set, or to buy the car, or to put

544
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 10: the person in the place right.

545
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 3: And uh, for movies like The.

546
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 10: Flash, they're like, just have the guy stand in front

547
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 10: of a green screen and we'll make some underpaid couple bozos. Yeah,

548
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 10: you know, sorry, they're not bozos. They're great artists, but

549
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 10: they're underpaid. They don't have enough time.

550
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: In terrible conditions.

551
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's cut rate. It's sweatshop content, you know.

552
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: And about another lightning portal in the sky, what if

553
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: we did.

554
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 4: It was coming out of portals?

555
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's portals, flashy stuff.

556
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, Adam, I gotta ask though, right, like these costs

557
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 6: they got to the studios got to cut costs because

558
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 6: I've heard it.

559
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 4: Straight from their mouths. Times are tough. Oh yeah for studios.

560
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 6: I heard Bobby Jay I'll say I grew in a

561
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 6: very fancy way. Uh, you know, really be out here

562
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 6: being like you know, their their demands are unrealistic or

563
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 6: other people.

564
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 4: I've heard that.

565
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 6: I've heard the thing over and over that times are

566
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 6: hard for studios. And we've talked a lot about this

567
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 6: where you know, Iiger's pay was what approaching twenty seven

568
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 6: million for the year, and like people like what David

569
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 6: Zaslov almost be like a quarter of a billion dollars

570
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty one. Yeah, what how would you define

571
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 6: from their perspective, it's it's that they're trying to inaccurately

572
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 6: describe a problem that they maybe they have created through

573
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 6: their own business decisions.

574
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

575
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 10: I mean, that's a wonderful answer to your own question.

576
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 10: That's a great way to put it. I mean, look,

577
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 10: these guys are raking it in. And let's be really clear.

578
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 10: So writer producer pay has fallen by twenty three percent

579
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 10: at the median over the last ten years. That's the

580
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 10: Writer's Guild's own figures. That's total pay. Over the same time,

581
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 10: show budgets have gone up by fifty percent. Revenue has

582
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 10: gone up, profits have gone up for these companies, just

583
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 10: their entertainment divisions. I'm not even talking about you know,

584
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 10: Disney's got they've got theme parks. We're not talking about that.

585
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 10: We're just talking about literally the entertainment divisions of the companies. Revenue, profits,

586
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 10: budgets all up while our salaries go down. At the

587
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 10: same time, they're paying these companies, these CEOs, massive, massive

588
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 10: amounts of money. I mean, Bob I here, when he

589
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 10: made those comments, he had just negotiated for himself an

590
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 10: additional two years and he's making an extra fifty million

591
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 10: bucks a year.

592
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 3: That guy doesn't fucking need that money.

593
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 10: He's already incredibly wealthy if you look at the aggregate

594
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 10: he's made over the last ten years. How dare he

595
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 10: go on television and plead poverty while the rest of

596
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 10: us are not able to make a living while his

597
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 10: workforce is not able to make health insurance or you know,

598
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 10: make a living anymore.

599
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: It's revolting, but its line goes up shit right, it's

600
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: their answering to the Wall Street And for Wall Street,

601
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: it's never enough, like when you have a good year,

602
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: that that is an indication that you should keep being

603
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: better years. Like that's what we want to consistently see

604
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: that line.

605
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 10: Also these but it's not just that because growth is

606
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 10: growth is possible, right if you do you can do

607
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 10: it the right way. You can pay everybody properly and

608
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 10: make good shit that people actually like and make more money.

609
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 10: That's my belief in life. And there's companies that fucking

610
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 10: do it right. And also it's what the entertainment industry

611
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 10: did for a long time, Like a lot of people

612
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 10: were paid shitty in the entertainment industry, you know, like

613
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 10: the unions are the ones that you know that protected

614
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 10: us PA's We have always been paid shittily. There's a

615
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 10: lot of bad shit in Hollywood. But like you know,

616
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 10: from the eighties through the two thousands, everybody liked the product. Right,

617
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 10: we had peak TV, Right, everyone had cable, We were

618
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 10: watching ads. We were fine with it. We could watch

619
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 10: on demand or use DVR if we needed to.

620
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

621
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 10: Everything was people were making so much money. People are

622
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 10: going to the movie theater. The content was good, you know,

623
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 10: and the people who made it were paid. And now

624
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 10: what's happening. People don't like the product anymore.

625
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: You know.

626
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 10: The Netflix revolution was a lie that they you know,

627
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 10: the idea that you could pay fifteen dollars a month

628
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 10: and never have to pay another penny and never watch

629
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 10: an ad, and watch every show ever made. They were

630
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 10: lying to the public that that was possible. They destroyed

631
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 10: a profitable business model in order to find a new one.

632
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 10: But at the same time, they kept enough of the

633
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 10: money for themselves that the people at top at the

634
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 10: top are doing better.

635
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: Well, everyone else does.

636
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 10: Worse, But the companies would grow more if they if

637
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 10: they did it the right way.

638
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: Period.

639
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Golden Age of TV is a great example

640
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: of the WGA working because you know, like you mentioned

641
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: like the WGA, and like the things that the WGA

642
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: has provided, like writers with like the ability to make

643
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: a living during dry periods or whatever, like helps writers,

644
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, remain writers. And a lot of the best

645
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: TV is created by people with the long time experience

646
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: in like past successful and unsuccessful TV shows like Breaking

647
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: Bad is created by a former X Files writer, Like

648
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: there's a big break between the Sopranos comes from a

649
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: writer on Northern Exposure, like Matthew Weiner cut his teeth

650
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: on Becker and in Laws before.

651
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 4: He got on Sopranos, you know.

652
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like the you know on your episode where

653
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: like where you were talking about the strike, you were

654
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: talking to I think David Goodman, Yeah who and you

655
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: know his family guy writer who all told a story

656
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: about how he almost quit the industry, but like a

657
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: residual check for a show he wrote on in the

658
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: past that he said like wasn't very good, but him

659
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: it got him through so that he could keep being

660
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: a writer. And there's just all this all this information

661
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: that gets passed down, Like I forget where I heard it,

662
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: but somebody was saying that, like the family tree of

663
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: all of the Golden Age TV shows it all like

664
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 1: traces back to Colombo and like that show then like

665
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: created all like all the writers on that became showrunners

666
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: on other shows and it just like branched down. So

667
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: we magically have this period of Golden era TV. But

668
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: like that doesn't happen if the television industry works the

669
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: way like the industry that I think all three of

670
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: us have a background in is like creating content for

671
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: the Internet. Yeah, like just the way that we've seen

672
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: that devolve over the past fifteen years.

673
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 3: It doesn't exist anymore.

674
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: It doesn't exist like.

675
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 6: There are no guardrails and there were no ways to

676
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 6: you know, like ensure good outcomes for the people that

677
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 6: were contributing to that environment.

678
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, because they the company has decided to pull them,

679
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 10: sell them for parts.

680
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 5: You know.

681
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 10: I mean look at look I like I play video games, right,

682
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 10: so I like reading video game websites. There's no such

683
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 10: thing as video game websites anymore. I mean there's sites

684
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 10: where people upload it for free, like YouTube right right,

685
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 10: where people put in all the work and all the

686
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 10: risk themselves of putting up work and then you know,

687
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 10: if you're lucky, you get paid by YouTube if you

688
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 10: happen to hit, right, But in terms of being somebody

689
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 10: who is like a journalist who covers video games, goes

690
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 10: to E three interviews, people break stories right. There literally

691
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 10: are not outlets left that pay people to do this

692
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 10: because they've been stripping them for parts. One of them

693
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 10: that I read is Kotaku. I've read it for years.

694
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 10: They're trying to replace those writers with AI. They're trying to,

695
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 10: like and like, what's what's the fucking point of that?

696
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 3: Do they do?

697
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 10: They think I'm gonna go to kotaku dot com to

698
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 10: read AI generated articles.

699
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: I also have chat GPT. I can just ask chat

700
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: GPT if I want an AI answer.

701
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 10: Why are you hiring someone to copy paste from chat GPT?

702
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 10: What the fuck is the point of that? Why destroy

703
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 10: your own industry? People go because they like the people right.

704
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 6: Right, And I guess there's like that that's just like

705
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 6: that disconnect we see like in every industry where again

706
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 6: there's like a motive to make sure that like you

707
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 6: provide value to shareholders while completely like missing sight of

708
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 6: like the actual products that are being made and like

709
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 6: if consumers are going to be savy enough, because look,

710
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 6: I love bullshit reality TV, but I like, like actually

711
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 6: well written television also, and I can already see like

712
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 6: you like just that that shift to Max was like

713
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 6: sort of like a preview of like the worlds we're

714
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 6: looking at. It was like, well, remember HBO, there's that,

715
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 6: and then there's just all this other unscripted nonsense that

716
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 6: fucking is really cheap to make, and like.

717
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 4: You know, kind of maybe where things should be.

718
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 6: Going if writers and actors don't get off their shit.

719
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 10: Max is such an antithesis of the last you know

720
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 10: of how you build a successful media company, right, like HBO.

721
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 10: There's a wonderful book about HBO. I read it this

722
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 10: year called It's not TV, It's It's a History of HBO.

723
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 10: From the beginning, what you realize HBO is like this,

724
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 10: you know, starts out as just a cable company that

725
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 10: you know, you pay extra and you can watch fights

726
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 10: and stuff like that, right, right, And then they find

727
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 10: this niche of oh, we can make content that doesn't

728
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 10: exist on broadcast, right, we can make science edgy, we

729
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 10: can da da da da, Right, and they build it

730
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 10: on exactly dreamond this show with a pride to watch

731
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 10: that because there was boobs in it, right, but you

732
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 10: know they did the Larry Sanders show. They did the

733
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 10: Sopranos right, and they sort of create prestige. TV is

734
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 10: created by HBO to the point where you know, by

735
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 10: by up to you know, three or four years ago,

736
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 10: you know, if a show comes out on HBO, you're like,

737
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 10: I'm going to assume this show is good, right, because

738
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 10: you know that their creative culture is like, if HBO

739
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 10: is putting their muscle behind that, it's got to be good.

740
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 10: There's exceptions, there's stinkers, of course, yes, like like you know,

741
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 10: the Idol or whatever. But that's the it's the cathedral

742
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 10: of television and people know that, right. And so when

743
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 10: Netflix comes along and all these other channels starting their streamers,

744
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 10: what would have been the easiest thing in the world.

745
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 3: Call the streamer HBO.

746
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 10: Yes, people are already subscribed to HBO for fifteen bucks

747
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 10: a month.

748
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: There's a streaming service called HBO.

749
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 10: Have HBO make more shows, keep the brand that people know,

750
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 10: the thing people care about. They actually like HBO. It's

751
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 10: for adults. It means something to people. It's not TV,

752
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 10: it's HBO instead. Now HBO is a vertical underneath this

753
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 10: mystery meat thing Max that no one's ever heard. That's

754
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 10: not a brand that was literally what they called it

755
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 10: instead of Plus. They're like, should we call it HBO plus? No,

756
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 10: too small, We'll call it HBO Max. Right, it's extreme HBO.

757
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 10: And then like but then they got rid of the

758
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 10: part that people fucking knew and just called it Max.

759
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: That's like if Disney Plus just called itself plus. Right.

760
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 3: People are there for the Disney, they're not there for

761
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 3: the Plus.

762
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 4: I'm so mouse and then the Max ads.

763
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: We're all trading on these like icons of film, Like, yeah,

764
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: the things that like are completely outside of the model

765
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: that they're trying to force things in the direction.

766
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: Or called it fucking Warner Brothers. People know Warner Brothers.

767
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 3: Call it Warner Max. People love the people. People have

768
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 3: been watching Warner Brothers in this country for one hundred years.

769
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: Like just call it that.

770
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 10: But instead, you know, Zoslav treats this company it's like

771
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 10: a stock portfolio to him, Right, He's like, oh, I

772
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 10: put this in, I put that in, I put that,

773
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 10: and that's my tranch of content.

774
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: That's my big batch of content.

775
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 10: I don't give a shit what it's called, right, because

776
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 10: his plan is to sell it or whatever he wants

777
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 10: to do. He's financialized it. But that's not that's not

778
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 10: how you build a media brand. And you know, it's

779
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 10: it's a shame. Like it often feels stupid to say,

780
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 10: why don't these companies like respect these old time values

781
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 10: of having like a good media brand that people actually

782
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 10: care about, you know, that means something to people. But

783
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 10: like I feel stupid saying that because they don't care.

784
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 10: They only care about money. But like they lose money

785
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 10: by doing this, you know, like people, how have we

786
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 10: forgotten the lessons of the last hundred years of capitalism?

787
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 10: Did these people go to fucking marketing school? Like it's

788
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 10: just basic brand shit? Sorry no, but.

789
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 6: It's I mean, it's it's so reactionary, and it's everything

790
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 6: about like whatever is good in the short term with

791
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 6: no long term thinking. Like everybody he's getting into streaming.

792
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 6: I guess we're getting into streaming too. Wait what does

793
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 6: it take to do that? And now we see like

794
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 6: I mean, like with HBO Max, we saw half of

795
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 6: the ship that was like interesting to people get absolutely vaporized.

796
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's hard.

797
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break and we'll

798
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: be right back to talk more about this and AI.

799
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 4: And we're back and so do I just repeat that question?

800
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, but like I was saying, no, like, and I

801
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 6: think if you didn't just skip ahead, the point being

802
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 6: is I think there's there's a lot of like you've

803
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 6: you've spent a lot of facts every time you've come on,

804
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 6: but have really made me think about how much the

805
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 6: way that we this like our societies were built in

806
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 6: this country was built, how much it affects us now,

807
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 6: how much it poisons us now to the point that

808
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 6: we have no connection to each other, community, to land,

809
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 6: and things like that. I'm do you see this as

810
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 6: part and parcel of that disconnect or is there is

811
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 6: there another way you're looking at it?

812
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 4: Well?

813
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 7: So, I guess I think of a couple of things.

814
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 7: One is, when I was going to school in Hawaii,

815
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 7: I was living with one of my teachers named Larry Kimura,

816
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 7: who we call him the godfather of the Hawaiian language movement.

817
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 7: He's just he's an amazing person, and at one point

818
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 7: he was just he kind of started going off about

819
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 7: these people wearing these shirts that say Aloha Aina, which

820
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 7: is like love the land, and he says, you love

821
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 7: the land, show me your fingers, you got you got dirt?

822
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 7: Underneath your fingernails. Have you been out working in the land,

823
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 7: You've been digging, you've been planting stuff, You've been doing stuff.

824
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 7: And so for me, I think, if the world starts

825
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 7: glitching out, go out on the land, right, just go

826
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 7: go see what's out there, and and go get your

827
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 7: hands dirty. And then I also sometimes I have theories

828
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 7: that maybe people don't want to hear. So I was

829
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 7: in a class on American literature and the theme of

830
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 7: the class was paranoia. And at this sort of culminating

831
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 7: moment in the class, this was for an MFA and

832
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 7: creative writing, and the teachers who was really he was

833
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 7: a great guy, and he said, well, why do you

834
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 7: guys think there's so much paranoia in American literature? And

835
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 7: this person had an answer, and that person had an answer,

836
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 7: and that person had an answer, and I raised my

837
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 7: hand I said, well, I think it's because America stole

838
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 7: everything from Native American people's and they're just kind of

839
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 7: waiting for their comeup ins.

840
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 3: And I also think that it's you can.

841
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 7: Really geek out on sci fi theories and stuff, so

842
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 7: you don't have to assume that your ancestors did something

843
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 7: really horrible. And so I think if people say, no,

844
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 7: this is all part of this larger program that we

845
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 7: have no control of. I think it's another system to

846
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 7: avoid doing the work that it's going to take to

847
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 7: sort of start moving towards a sense of equity which

848
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 7: is totally attainable, which is totally possible. But I think

849
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 7: colonization sets up all of these mechanisms like either like

850
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 7: it's already in place, it's too late to do anything,

851
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 7: it's this thing or that thing, or the limitlessness of

852
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 7: resource extraction and the absolute limit of budgets and time

853
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 7: and energy, right, and so it just sort of gets

854
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 7: you trapped into these systems. So for me, I'm always,

855
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 7: you know, I'm always paranoid that something is racism, and

856
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 7: I'm always paranoid that something is colonization. And I'm usually right,

857
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 7: but I'll also say, you know, so that's my matrix

858
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 7: that I'm stuck in, you know. So sometimes I'll be

859
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 7: dealing with something I was like, is this a colonization

860
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 7: thing or is this a race? Like am I getting

861
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 7: Am I getting treated different because of you know, my

862
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 7: name or because of who I am or how I look?

863
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 7: Are my kids being treated different? And so I'm always

864
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 7: sort of I'm paranoid myself, right, but I'm also I

865
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 7: have it, you know, I don't have TikTok channel for it,

866
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 7: but I've been right quite a few times with this

867
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 7: kind of stuff too. So for me, I think it's

868
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 7: fascinating and it's neat to look at, and like I

869
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 7: have friends who've seen UFOs and I have friends who've

870
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 7: seen We have our own monsters here that live in

871
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 7: the woods. We went camping last weekend and it's fun.

872
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 7: It's it's a blast. We're like, we're in Alaska. You

873
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 7: can just walk out your door and you're in the wilderness.

874
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 7: But that means, you know, the dog starts barking. You're

875
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 7: cooking some delicious dinner out in the middle of nowhere

876
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 7: in the dark. Well it's not in the mill of Nore,

877
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 7: but far from you know, a hospital, and the dog's

878
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 7: barking and looking down the trail, and you're like, grab

879
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 7: all the food, get in the cabin, you know, because

880
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 7: there's probably you know, like, we respect the grizzly bear

881
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 7: so much that we got two names. Like, so Hoots

882
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 7: is what we would call it. So it means brown bear,

883
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 7: and we say it's Eke for black bear. But the

884
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 7: brown bear is the one that's it owns the forest

885
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 7: and we know that. But when we're out in the forest,

886
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 7: we say yet see neat, which means a living thing.

887
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 7: So we don't even say its name when we're out there,

888
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 7: because we're like, you say its name, it's going to

889
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 7: be like you talk, you call me.

890
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 4: Wait, you're in my house. And so we talk to them.

891
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 7: Before we go into the woods, and we sort of

892
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 7: live this life that's pretty connected to the natural world.

893
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 7: So I think the other thing too, is there's a

894
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 7: fascination with an artificial world because there's a prescribed disconnect

895
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 7: with the natural world in order to maintain a sense

896
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 7: of colonization and economics the way that it's required today,

897
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 7: like you have to be separate from it to say, yeah,

898
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 7: cut all the trees down, yeah, like kill off all

899
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 7: those buffalo you know, like this, these mountain lions scare me,

900
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 7: so just murder them, right and so, but in order

901
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 7: to do that, you have to remove yourself, which you know,

902
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 7: Christianity kind of did that already. It's like man has

903
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 7: domain of everything, including women, right, and it just creates

904
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 7: tons and tons of problems because I think human beings,

905
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 7: and especially if we just narrow it down to one gender,

906
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 7: don't have enough skills and ability to like men, and

907
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 7: it's the universe. It's sort of like, actually, you should

908
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 7: just be in the universe and figure out how you're

909
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 7: part of that, because you're not You're in the food chain,

910
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 7: you're you're in You're in all these circles, you're in

911
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 7: all these cycles, and what you do affect all of

912
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 7: these things, and so I like the conversations. I think

913
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 7: it's fun. I think it's fun to watch this stuff.

914
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 7: You're like, oh, yeah, that is weird and that's pretty cool.

915
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 7: But you can also zoom in on your iPhone. It

916
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 7: starts to get pretty grainy, and then it's probably pretty

917
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 7: easy when you got.

918
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 4: To share his camragns in my house, what the fun

919
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 4: I think?

920
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that kind of ties nicely into just,

921
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, if you have any additional thoughts on Avatar.

922
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: But like the reality of you know, what we're doing

923
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: to the world and other humans and the history of

924
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: what you know, white people have done to the world

925
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: and other human beings is maybe too uncomfortable for some

926
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: people to take in, and they want to create an

927
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: artificial reality. In the case of the Matrix, it's like

928
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: just coming up with a system of belief that like

929
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: we are in an unofficial reality. But in the case

930
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: of Avatar, it's like creating an unofficial like an artificial

931
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: reality that you can go live in for a couple

932
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: hours that also like rewrites that history where you get

933
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: to like be on the good guy side, on the

934
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: on the side of the victimize the people being victimized

935
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 1: by colonialism. Like I do think Avatar is really interesting

936
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: just as a phenomenon, because I don't, like, I can't

937
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: think of another cultural, pop cultural thing that that is

938
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: as successful as that those movies when they're happening, and

939
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: then as completely embarrassing the second they stop happening, Like

940
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: like it happened once with the first Avatar and everyone's like, man,

941
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: that was weird, and like Avatar was like a punchline.

942
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 1: But then they did again like you brought you brought

943
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: Avatar too out and every everyone went to fucking see

944
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: that one too, and like they are the two of

945
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: the three most top grossing movies of all time, but

946
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: like nobody would put a movie poster of that movie

947
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: up except ironically, And so I don't know, I think

948
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: there's like a weird disconnect. And then we also have

949
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: the thing where like people were experiencing depression after they

950
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: came out of the movie because they couldn't just like

951
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: experience that reality.

952
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 4: Around the clock.

953
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: So it's definitely filling a need that people have, but

954
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: one that is disconnected from their mind in a way

955
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: that makes it unique where they can't like kind of

956
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: incorporate it into their lives the way they can a

957
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: Star Wars or something like that, where they make it

958
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: part of their personality. Like, it just feels like Avatar

959
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: is the thing that is an experience that then you

960
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: like try not to think about when when you're not

961
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: at an Avatar movie or something. But yeah, I'm curious

962
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on Avatar.

963
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I think largely there's this fascination with

964
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 7: white savior films, you know, and so dances with wolves.

965
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 7: What was the one dangerous something where there's like a

966
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 7: white school teacher who goes into dangerous yeah, a black neighborhood,

967
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 7: and you know, and and like there are certainly stories

968
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 7: of people who come in and embrace community and become

969
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 7: part of it and become something different and do fight

970
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 7: racism and fight colonization, you know, but it's it's very rare,

971
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 7: especially when they like they win or something. And so

972
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 7: I started to think about this stuff quite a bit.

973
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 7: And then there's a film called Real Engines, which is

974
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 7: spelled r E E l I n j u n s,

975
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 7: which is a documentary on the history of Native Americans

976
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 7: and film, and it kind of goes through a number

977
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 7: of different sort of scenarios and at one point it

978
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 7: talks about all these different white actors who have played

979
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 7: Native Americans, and so there's a growing list of you know, well,

980
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 7: you know, there's quite a few of them who have

981
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 7: played Native Americans. And then you also just get really

982
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 7: interesting things like there's a guy I think his name

983
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 7: was Ironized Cody or Cody ironized, I can never remember

984
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 7: which way it goes, but he played so many Native

985
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 7: Americans and films that he full on believed he was

986
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 7: Native American when he died, and to some extent, I

987
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 7: think his children do as well, and so like he

988
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 7: can assume this entire identity, and so I think there's

989
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 7: a fascination with that to think about what if there

990
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 7: was something different.

991
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 4: But then.

992
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 7: There's a disconnect as well, because you don't really see

993
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 7: that embraced in people's reality because if they come out

994
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 7: of like, let's say they came out of Avatar and said,

995
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 7: whoa like, I should learn an indigenous language, and I

996
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 7: should go contribute to a land back initiative, and I

997
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 7: should actually do something that's embracing decolonization. Because the film,

998
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 7: you could argue, is about decolonization, right, it's a totally

999
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 7: fictionalized decolonization, and so you could, like, if it translated

1000
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 7: into real action, that would be more interesting to me

1001
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 7: than just sort of saying, well, you know, it's a

1002
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 7: nice fantasy to say, oh, yeah, well, what if we

1003
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 7: had actually done something a lot more humane instead of

1004
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 7: taking everything from everybody? Because if you look at some things,

1005
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,439
Speaker 7: like we talked a bit about the Supreme Court, who

1006
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 7: is all kinds of fucked up, like just the types

1007
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 7: of things that they're doing, these decisions are horrible and

1008
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 7: they're just destructive for movements towards equity. But the one

1009
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 7: thing they couldn't do is dismantle the Indian Child Welfare Act,

1010
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 7: you know. And so the reason why the Indian Child

1011
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 7: Welfare Act exists is because in the mid to late

1012
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 7: nineteen seventies, one out of every four Native American children

1013
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 7: were removed from their homes and placed with white families.

1014
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 7: In addition, one out of of every four Native American

1015
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 7: women were sterilized without their full consents. Like this kind

1016
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 7: of stuff was still happening, and so the removal of people,

1017
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 7: and so like the other thing, I think there's a

1018
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 7: fascination with the idea that colonization had an endpoint or

1019
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 7: it had like we're in this post colonial sort of world,

1020
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 7: which we're not and we could be, but it requires

1021
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 7: a consciousness that's going to move you beyond going to

1022
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 7: a movie for two or three hours and completely immersing

1023
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 7: yourself in this other idea and just saying, actually, we

1024
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 7: can have a reality that is kind of close to

1025
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 7: the Avatar universe, which you know, I'm not opposed to

1026
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 7: that reality, but what I'm opposed to is the idea

1027
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 7: that it exists, or that going to the movie is

1028
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 7: somehow enough.

1029
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 6: Right right, Yeah, it's funny too, because like to your point,

1030
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,479
Speaker 6: if you're not coming out of the movie being like, wow,

1031
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 6: we got work to do, then really, then I don't

1032
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 6: know how good it's doing. Because most people come out

1033
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 6: of that movie and be like why is it Pandora Real?

1034
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 3: Why can't I go?

1035
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 6: So the message was maybe like secondary or tertiary to

1036
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 6: like the Wow, isn't this shit fucking cool?

1037
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 5: Anyway?

1038
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 4: Like then there's like some other shit happens to these

1039
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 4: blue people whatever. I came out and inspired to be

1040
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 4: seven foot six.

1041
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: Because that does help with balance, it turns out, Yeah, well,

1042
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: who knows, such a pleasure having you back on the show?

1043
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Follow you all that good stuff?

1044
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1045
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 7: Well, I have a podcast called The Tongue Unbroken, and

1046
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 7: season two is launching in November, so we're going to

1047
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 7: launch during the start of the Native American Heritage Month.

1048
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 7: And the Next Up Initiative is fabulous and I really

1049
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 7: encourage you to just go check it out. It's the

1050
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 7: Next Up Initiative with the iHeart Radio and look at

1051
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 7: the current this whole new generation of Next Up Initiative

1052
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 7: folks who are coming out, and I'm really excited to

1053
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 7: hear their podcasts and to be a part of this

1054
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 7: movement where we're trying to find voices in the margins

1055
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 7: and pull them closer to the center so you can

1056
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 7: find me. I'm sometimes on Facebook, sometimes on Twitter, although

1057
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 7: Twitter has gotten a lot less interesting as.

1058
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 4: They would have to be. Oh, you know, this.

1059
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 7: Billionaire bought it and like uh, and now his tweets

1060
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 7: just keep popping up, like you know, and so I

1061
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 7: tried to mute one of his tweets and says, this

1062
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 7: will make Twitter a better experience for you, and I

1063
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 7: was like, it will actually make Twitter a better experience

1064
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 7: for everybody if we saw a lot less of that voice.

1065
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been getting a lot.

1066
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: Of AI ads that are just like really insulted, Like

1067
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: here I just screenshok. One crazy thing happened with Asdata

1068
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: dot Co today, still in shock. I was troubleshooting with

1069
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: a customer on Zoom and he had just gotten his

1070
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,439
Speaker 1: person and it's like keep reading meat days to get

1071
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: it done. And it's like a promoted post for fucking

1072
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: some bullshit. They're all over the place. Anyways, I'm glad

1073
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: I interrupted for that.

1074
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1075
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 7: The other thing I really want to promote is just

1076
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 7: indigenous language revitalization. So if you're not familiar with what

1077
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 7: the Hawaiian Language movement is, or a Jibwe or Mohawk

1078
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 7: or the sale is of Spokane, go look at what

1079
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 7: they're doing. Like it's very possible. So on the Tongue Unbroken,

1080
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 7: we like to talk about how do you do it?

1081
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 7: How do you take these steps? If you have a

1082
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 7: thousand speakers left, if you have ten speakers left, if

1083
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 7: you have no speakers left of your indigenous language? What

1084
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 7: kind of steps could you possibly take?

1085
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 4: And we like to.

1086
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 7: Envision a world where we dream the impossible dream and

1087
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 7: we get back to a place of strength, which takes action,

1088
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 7: which takes courage, which takes determination, and also takes a

1089
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 7: ton of self analysis. Like colonization isn't just about people

1090
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 7: creating a bunch of harm to people. It's like also

1091
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 7: the indigenous people internalizing that harm and then hurting each other,

1092
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 7: which we got a lot of work to do with

1093
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 7: that as well.

1094
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: All Right, that's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist.

1095
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: Please like and review the show If you like, the

1096
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: show means the world de Miles.

1097
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 4: He needs your validation, folks.

1098
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great weekend and I will

1099
00:54:27,400 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: talk to you Monday. By st