WEBVTT - What We've Unlearned About Love 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.400 Is there anything you had to unlearn? What is something 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:08.920 you've had to unlearn about dating, sex, women's health, friendship? 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:14.040 What is one thing you've had to unlearn about love? 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.319 As Voiceover approaches our first new year, it's time to 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.479 reflect on our favorite question, what have we unlearned about love? 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.280 I'm hopewordered and welcome to voice Over, a space where 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.600 we're learning and unlearning all the myths we're taught about 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:54.600 love and relationships. Voiceover was always less of a project 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.160 about giving up men and more of an exercise and 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.080 unlearning all lessons we've been taught about love. Personally, I've 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:06.919 been struggling with unlearning so many things, like having trust issues. 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.840 I'm working on trusting, like maybe moving a little bit 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:16.800 slower I jump into quickly, like I'm working on unlearning codependents. 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.080 That's why I started asking all of our guests this 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.200 signature question selfishly, I want to absorb the wisdom of 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.080 all the brilliant people I get to talk to. So far, 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.600 it's been working. We've talked to so many people with 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.399 wildly different life experiences and areas of expertise, and I've 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.280 savored the lessons each person shared today to make sure 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.800 it all really sinks in We're bringing you a collection 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.560 of some of our favorite answers, plus one that you 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.520 haven't heard before. Let's start with singer songwriter Jensen McCrae. 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.040 What is something you've had to unlearn about love? 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:54.960 I mean, one of the biggest things is just that, like, 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.800 it doesn't solve anything other than the problem of the 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.200 lack of romantic love. The only thing getting into a 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.440 relationship does is it solves the problem of you being single, 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.120 which doesn't have to be a problem if you don't. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:04.240 Want to be. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.519 I know, historically I have thought, like before I ever 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:10.880 got into a serious relationship, or when periods where I 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:12.960 was feeling really lonely, I was like, oh, if I 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.160 just got a boyfriend, then all of this other stuff 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.079 I'd be able to deal with everything else will disappear. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:18.520 I guess that's the other big thing if I had 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.000 to learn is like you don't have to be consumed, 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.040 because like it's very easy to be consumed when you're 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:24.760 being rejected, right, Like you're very consumed by like oh, 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.200 he didn't text me, like he didn't call me, he 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.120 didn't make another date. Right, But it's like it's also 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.160 easy to be consumed when like he is texting and 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.760 calling and making another date, because it's like you're it's 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.160 all right there. And so like I've been very conscious 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.079 of really making time to be by myself and really 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:40.760 being present on all the travel that I've been doing 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:42.440 for work, Like I was playing with Hosier and like 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.600 I was going to this movie premiere, and like in 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:46.440 the moments when I'm doing that stuff, I'm like, he 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.240 is not on my mind. I am one hundred percent 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.079 locked in on this thing that I'm doing because these 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.440 are the memories when I'm an old lady, Like I'm 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.280 going to be remembering like totally stuff like frankly, like 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:56.720 not to make like my life is about work, but 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:58.560 like this is like all my happiest memories of my 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.520 ODLD life or my work, right, And it's like I'm 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.080 trying to remember, like to stay focused and like really 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.160 take mental screenshots of all of the tactile experiences of 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.079 being on those stages and being in those rooms, because 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:10.360 like that is what really fills me. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.280 Honestly, I think I had to unlearn like my expectations. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.440 I remember when I graduated high school, I was like, finally, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.440 college is when I'm going to get a boyfriend, yeah, 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.200 and then like I didn't for the first two years, 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.560 and I was like what. And then I was like, well, 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.120 after college, like when I graduate adult life, that's when 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.200 I'm gonna get a friend. And then I was like what, no, 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.760 not again. I remember I was talking to my friend 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.120 who's also in comedy but like three years ahead of me. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:48.160 This is like back when I was twenty two, I 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:49.840 was like, thinking, twenty six, that's when I'm going to 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.600 get a boyfriend. And she was like, don't count on that. Yeah, right, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:54.960 She was like it's hard for us girls, and she 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.360 was like, I wouldn't count on like getting a boyfriend 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.360 any So. I think that's also like the times when 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.560 I did feel lonely or yearning, it was because like 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.440 in my head, I envisioned this period of my life 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.560 like with a partner, and then when it didn't happen, 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:10.280 I was just like. 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.760 What come on, this is crazy. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.599 But I'm twenty six. Yeah, so I think unlearning that 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.440 and I think that's also why I feel like I'm 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:27.919 ready now of like I don't carry those expectations anymore. Obviously, 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.279 I would love to find love and a partner I'm 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.520 open to it, but I'm not. I don't like, look 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.360 at the next three years and I'm like, well, this 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.279 is when I'm gonna get a boyfriend, because right, what 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.000 I've been proven in the past is often it's not right. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:41.839 Often that's not the case. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:43.279 Kind of just don't look for it. 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:44.599 Yeah, I don't look for it. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.159 The biggest thing that I've had to unlearn about dating 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.719 is that but I had to learn that I'm datable. 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:03.560 It's all for me. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.440 I mean, I spent most of my life telling myself 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.279 I didn't deserve love, that no one was gonna love me, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.400 and that I truly was someone that they should be 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.440 embarrassed about because of like my body or how I 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.200 viewed myself. So the last I would say, like ten years, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.359 has been every day showing up and loving myself the 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.160 way that I hope someone will one day. I mean, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.479 I really want to find love, and now I'm getting 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.960 closer to understanding what that actually looks like for me. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.599 I think I really had to unlearn like rules or 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.480 advice as I entered which is now my first real relationship, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.640 and just listen to like my own intuition, which I 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.120 lost for a while. You know, being like a very 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.560 independent young woman, and when I started dating, it was 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.640 like I felt like I was losing that part of 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.640 me because I was trying to like appeal to men 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.320 so hard. She now relates to the voice sober of 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.640 it all, like always trying to appeal to the male gaze, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.479 and so when I would go on dates, I would 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.400 just try to be getting that to like me. Of 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.520 course didn't fucking matter if I liked them or whatever. 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.400 You know, I was performing. I'm sure they had a 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.200 good time, but like I didn't get shit out of it. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.320 So I really had to kind of figure out, like 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.080 how do I become Like how do I date without 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.800 losing like who I am, you know, changing what I 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.280 talk about. Maybe I don't talk about politics. Maybe I 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.920 like really lean into what they like and pretend I 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.800 give a fuck about this sports team that I don't 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.080 care about. So it was tough. Yeah, I feel like 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:28.960 the early days, I was just so in my head 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.920 about like really grasping and like white knuckling it, like 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:34.520 wanting it to work out so badly. 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.240 Do you remember like what your rules were in the 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.880 earlier parts of your like dating history in New York? 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.599 I think just like rules about like if a guy 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.320 does this, he likes you, or make sure that you 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.400 do this or make sure whatever, and like it's so situational, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.800 you know, and also especially like the if a man 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.760 doesn't do this, that means he doesn't like you, like 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.680 chasing and attracting or like that. And I'm like, I'm 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:58.800 trying to think of all these corny TikTok phrases like 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.000 he wanted to he was right. I'm like, Okay, well 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.839 I want to, or maybe he doesn't have the time 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.200 or the confidence or whatever. So I think just on 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.240 learning that because I feel like a lot of those 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.000 rules are trying to protect you, like make you feel 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.440 like you have control over something, and it's like at 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.880 the end of the day, like it can change so quickly, 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:18.640 like they can. I mean, you can dump me whenever 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.600 you want, right and to feel like you are almost 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.040 like have this knowledge about what's going to happen and 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.080 you can like give a magic eight ball, you're predicting it. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.120 I think that's what the rules were like doing versus 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:30.080 being like in the moment. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:41.200 One thing that I had to unlearn about love was 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:46.520 that words are just words and it's all about the actions. 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:46.960 Hmmm. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.200 I spent a lot of time on the apps trying 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.600 to word smith to get someone to really like me, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.120 and I realized that that wasn't doing anything. It's about 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.360 the actions. So I learned to just show up and listen, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.800 as opposed to winning over in words I. 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.320 Love that, don't say, just do. 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.520 I didn't realize how much I was adjusting myself to 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:22.480 assumed expectations of the other. And I don't blame that 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:28.680 on anyone but myself, but I've realized through the past 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:36.280 several months of dating that it's impossible. You have to 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.240 show up as your authentic self. It's all you have, 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.880 and any sort of put upon is unsustainable. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:49.559 Right, Yeah, what do you put on airs about? Let's see? 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.800 Oh god, it's weird. I feel like I do a lot. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:53.880 Of mirroring me too. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:54.440 Yeah. 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:55.480 Uh, and. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:58.720 I feel I don't know, I feel like I sort 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:00.000 of shrink myself. 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:00.760 Yes. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.160 And a realization that I had a while ago also 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:09.199 was that I have power, and then I give it 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.120 away as fast as I can. As soon as I 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:13.920 feel like I have some power, I feel like I 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.200 have to get rid of it, and that it's not 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.240 safe with me. Why do you think that is obsessed 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:26.480 with compulsive disorder, and just a lot of shame and 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.679 fear about my own mistakes and ways that I've hurt people, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.480 hurt my exes, hurt friends, so hard to get away 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.360 from the idea that I'm not a bad person. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:38.119 That's self forgiveness. 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.400 Yeah, we have to do it, We have to do it, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:42.679 We have to. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:50.640 What do you feel like is one of the biggest 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.760 things you've had to learn about love? Mmm? 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:59.800 Okay, So one of the things that is coming to 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:04.720 me that I didn't believe until I met my current 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:09.600 partner is this whole idea of you need to love 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.240 yourself before you can be loved by someone. I think 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.600 there's a huge asterisk in that statement for me, because 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.040 I think that there are moments where I don't love myself, 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.440 and there have been years where I didn't see my 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:29.480 own self worth. And it was my partner, it was 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.640 my friends who reminded me that I am worthy of 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.840 love and being cared for. And I think our society 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:43.000 wants us to constantly hunger for self love and depend 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.760 only on ourselves to have that sense of fulfillment and 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:53.079 to have the conviction that we are worthy of love 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.120 and respect and dignity, and I think that's a really 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:01.240 really difficult challenge. I think we need each other to. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.840 Feel loved, to feel like we are worthy of dignity 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.679 and freedom. So I would say that you can love 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.880 even when you are not capable of loving yourself at 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:14.440 the time, and I think you are. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.280 Also capable of receiving love even when you. 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:18.319 Don't think you deserve it. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.400 One of my favorite things about this question is that 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.000 it brought up lessons on all kinds of love, Because 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.040 the biggest myth of all is that you should get 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.840 all the love you need from one romantic partner, but friends, family, 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.280 and self love are maybe even more important when it 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.240 comes to building a full life. I'm grateful that a 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.280 lot of guests have highlighted that in their answers. So 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.920 here's some tell us lessons about more than just romantic love. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:10.000 First up is Michelle Ellman, author of Bad Friend. What 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.160 is like one of the biggest things you've had to 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.439 unlearn when it comes to love. 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.600 That it needs to be forever for it to count. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:20.880 Mmmm say more. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.640 Yeah, I'm saying that the idea that you have a 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.160 ten year friendship and even if it ends in this 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.760 blowout fight where you hurt each other to a like 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.840 at a level that like neither of you can forget it. 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.880 It doesn't awaits the ten years where you had good friendship. 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.160 The way that we viewed in our society of like 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.760 a failed marriage. Who said the marriage was a failure? Like, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.400 who said that it ended it and all of it 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:55.559 is no good? Like, maybe the longevity of a relationship 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.520 is not the marker of success. But let's say you 0:12:58.520 --> 0:12:59.920 have a ten year marriage and then you end the 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.479 marriage and you have a divorce that can be healthier 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.840 than the forty five marriage where you yell and scream 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.960 at each other all day every day, but you stayed married. Like, 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:15.040 that's right, the idea of forever like is the only 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.199 marker or success. But like, you're not looking at the 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.679 quality of the relationship and same friendship friendship breakups are 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.400 so demonized that it's like, but why are we staying 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:30.400 in expired friendships just for the sake an old friend? Like? Right, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.720 But that person deserves to have that friendship ended equally 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.640 so that they can find people who are more aligned 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.679 with them, rather than someone who's like gossiping behind their 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.640 back and being like God, every time I see her, 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.360 I'm so bored, Like and this idea that like long 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.079 friendships are better, but it's like, but they're talking about 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.480 you behind your back, like why do you want a 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.120 friend that isn't a friend? Actually? 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:53.720 Right? 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.680 Can you speak to something you had to really unlearn 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.600 about love in your experience? 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.800 I will say I think that unlearning and I think 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.280 this is probably true for everyone, but I think it's 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.800 particularly true for women of deserving love that you can 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.600 just be loved that you don't. There's no romance story 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.360 where a woman has not had to do the I 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.720 never loved Bridget Jones the movie books Board the shit 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.440 out of me, and I could never hold my attention. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.320 But that idea of counting calories, or when you rewatch 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.320 Sex and the City and she's like, oh my god, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:27.840 you farted. 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:28.480 I farted. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.080 He's never going to love me, Like all of these 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.600 insane belief systems that are like, oh, I have to 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.000 deserve the attention or deserve love is a hard thing 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:36.640 to unlearn. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.400 Well, it's also reminding me immediately of what you said 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.320 about Americans and earning vacation, yes, or earning rest. Yeah, 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.240 It's like we do have to really earn everything, don't 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.960 we The love that we get, the rest that we take, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:50.360 the vacation that we go on. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.400 And I would encourage everyone, and particularly women to like 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.080 so many of these rituals and expectations are rooted in 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.240 a history, all of history up until fifty years ago, 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:08.920 and then only then for certain conjure, society is women 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.080 were fully financially dependent on men. That marriage was an 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:16.640 economic decision to move through class systems that you did. 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:23.400 Your survival was so dependent on keeping the money earner, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.320 whatever that looked like at whatever time period, that was 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.480 happy and satisfied that of course that you literally forget 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.520 about earning love. You had to earn your survival. And 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.880 we have confused that with love and a narrative to 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.280 make it look attractive. But these things aren't coming from anywhere. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.400 And when I look at my friends, I look at 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.520 my mother's generation. My parents didn't divorce, but friends of 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.600 mine's mothers who did divorce and then immediately got remarried 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.760 or were immediately thinking like I have to be married 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.720 for social value or for finance, And I'm like, I, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.000 who am I I can't pass judgment on this because 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.880 your financial safety dependent on this and of course you're 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.640 going through all these hoops, and we have now inherited 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:10.840 those expectations without necessarily the financial need for it, and 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.520 then we've confused it with many many other things. But 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:18.440 I think it's such the last my lifespan has bridged 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.960 such a vast transition in this, and it's all gotten 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.720 confused together and there's now a pushback to it. So 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.480 unlearning that it's like a privilege to be able to 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.080 unlearn that because I live in a world where it's 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.440 possible that I don't have to earn someone's love, which 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:42.920 is pretty rare on the scope of history. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.800 What do you think is the most important thing for 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.000 us all to unlearn when it comes to sex? 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:55.320 Okay, So me and my husband had a year of celibacy, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:01.320 and it was after we had already had sexual experiences 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.320 with each other, and he was like, you know, really 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.320 deep into his Christian walk, and I was like, well, look, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:09.800 if you want me to join you in that, we're 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.800 gonna have to go all the way. I would not 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.640 do that again, and I'll tell you about it. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.440 You did it for a year year. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:25.439 Yeah, I had a miss interpretation of what Christianity was 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.840 inviting me to do and know and learn about myself. 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.600 And what I thought it was going to do was 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:38.560 broker me access to the love I wanted, the type 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.840 of relationship structure I wanted, and I thought that access 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.840 and having those things would make me a better person 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.480 on the human height. So just investing in this idea 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.560 of elitism in general was what I had to learn. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:58.760 Like being married is better than being single, being able 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:03.160 to commit to have sentence better than busted it wide, you. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.119 Know, like, yeah, that's so funny, that true. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.280 None of it was true. But together we've been together 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.840 for a decade and we both looked back on that time, 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.639 like what were we thinking because we have learned so 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.080 much together. 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:23.560 That's so funny. Did that year get you all closer? 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.000 Like by the end of it, Like do you feel 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.239 like you grew together in that time or was it 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.439 just kind of a time of like what was that? 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:32.120 Like? 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:32.560 What we do? 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:33.119 What do we do? 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.520 Like I guess what I'm saying is I think we 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.440 would have grown together either way. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.120 What is the like one thing that you really wish 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.679 people would unlearn about, like women's health, fertility, pregnancy, just 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.400 like in this entire world. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.680 I think that it's our burden to bear as women, right. 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.280 I think that it's shocking to me that in twenty 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.680 twenty five, every once in a while I'll still meet 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.000 a couple where the male partner may not want to 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.879 get tested or like it's not me, it's her. And 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.920 it's becoming less common, thankfully, but I still see it. 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.000 And I think that is the prevailing theme in all 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:18.040 of this is that women blame all of the negatives 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:22.600 around fertility and pregnancy health on themselves. Women often will 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.920 not ask for help. They'll often say, yeah, my periods 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.520 are normal for me. I mean, yeah, But then I 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.479 probe further and they're like, I've missed so much school 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.679 or work in my life, and I'm like, that's not normal. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.200 That pain is a sign that something is wrong, right, 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.200 And so I think that we take on too much. 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:45.119 We are scapegoats. We are people that are often, you know, 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.919 just left to feel the blame and the weight of 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.040 it all. And I think that's what we need to unlearn. 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:51.320 Yeah, no, I agree. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.240 A lot of this is out of your control and 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.080 it's not your fault, right, And there's a lot of 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.800 things that in this world you put in the effort 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.119 and you get the results in your fertility relationships, Like 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.320 all these types of issues in our life which are 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.840 so important, aren't in our control. 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.639 Before we end, I wanted to bring you one answer 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.000 that we've never aired before. It's with Jillian Morris, writer 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.639 behind the Substack, Super Nuclear and advocate for communal living. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.960 She had a second answer to our unlearning question that 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.679 we didn't have time to air in her episode, but 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.440 it's worth sharing now as a testament to how any 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.600 kind of lesson about love is really a lesson about 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:43.680 how to care for one another. What is one thing 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.760 you've had to unlearn about love? 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:48.560 Who? 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.359 When I was eighteen, I lived in France. I was 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.040 pursuing a life. I was a musician. It was a 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.280 very different chapter. And I dated someone who is much 0:20:58.320 --> 0:20:58.920 older than me. 0:20:59.240 --> 0:20:59.840 How much older? 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:00.480 Oh god? 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.879 I was eighteen, he was thirty four. In retrospect, I 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.040 think he assumed I was out of college. I assumed 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:08.440 he was late to it. And when we found out 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.600 how old we were, were like, maybe we just don't 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:11.600 tell other. 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.480 People about this, Maybe we don't talk about all that. 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.800 Later, after a couple months, I found out that he 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:22.560 was married. I did not know. I blamed myself completely. 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.199 I was like, I'm a home wrecker, I'm a terrible person. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:30.080 How could I fall for this person who was cheating 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.960 on his wife? And I really blamed myself for that 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.720 for a really long time, and I think it also 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:40.879 made me kind of feel like I wasn't worthy of 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.359 love or something. And I didn't have my first I 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.760 had my first boyfriend when I was twenty six, which 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:50.320 I think is pretty late, and so I felt like 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.639 one thing that I have definitely learned over time is 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.920 you know, a don't date that big of an age 0:21:58.000 --> 0:21:59.840 gap at that age, Like, don't date eighteen year olds 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.840 you're in your thirties. Not good freaks. Yeah to the 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:08.400 men who are doing that, And also you know, with 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.520 time and perspective. First of all, I don't blame myself anymore. 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.000 I didn't know I was ignorant, so I really shouldn't 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:18.160