1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney Down. Welcome to Reparations, 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: The Big Payback, a production of Color Far Media, I 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. We're not 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: interesting in a racial hamising. We don't want your neighborhood. 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: We want ours to be just as good. See, we 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: don't want to store in your neighbor but we don't 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: want you coming in our neighborhood and open up store 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: and exploiting us and then go home and throw Obama 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: if we moved next door out in the suburbs. We 10 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: don't want your schools, but we want our schools to 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: be the highest and the best spottle for our black projecting. 12 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: See what people don't understand we are saying, and we're 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: not asking you. See the diet is cast as I said, 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: We're not asking, We're saying, this is the where it's 15 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: gonna be. Now you get this street. You can kill 16 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: all the black folks you want to, baby, but you 17 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: will not kill the freedom of black folks. It's coming. 18 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna get it. We're fought in every one of 19 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: your damn lives the wars, baby, and you give us nothing. 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: Now the war is gonna be here because we're gonna 21 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: be free. Are you kill all you want to? What? 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: We kill? Two? So Erica? How are you doing this week? Whitney? Honestly, 23 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. The most recent killing of an unarmed 24 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: black man, Andrew Brown Jr. The one in Elizabeth City, 25 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: North Carolina, has to be feeling pretty pessimistic. It never 26 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: seems to end, does a Yeah, this one was like 27 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: an execution. The sheriff's deputies rolled up to serve a warrant, 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: or so they say, But from the little video the 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: city has released, you can see that four seconds later 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: Brown was dead from a gunshot to the back of 31 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: the head. And once again they still won't release the 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: police body camp footage. It's traumatizing, as I think it's 33 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: meant to be what you think. There's an agenda to 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: all these killings. Yes, I do, and we get to 35 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: that in a minute. But it's not just traumatizing. It's sad. 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: It's just immensely, immensely sad. Black America is a nation 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: within a name, a nation in a perpetual state of grief, 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: A huge family that can't go more than a day 39 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: or two without a funeral. Every day we get the 40 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: shots of the crying family, the attorneys calling for justice, 41 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: the marchers marching, Al Sharpton preaching over the casket. They 42 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: should just save themselves the trouble and expense in the killings, right, yeah, 43 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: that part. Just make stock footage of it all and 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: run it over and over. You know, I see your point. 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: It seems like the original sin of slavery and Jim 46 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: Crow never went away. They just morphed into this weird 47 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: apartheid regime enforced by murder, daily murder. Now, if that's 48 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: not an agenda to keep black people in line, it'll 49 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: do to an agenda gets here. I don't know what 50 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: to say, Erica. I'm sorry. It seems so small in 51 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: the face of it all. Still, I'm sorry. Thanks. This 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: revolution is filled with so many ironies. Really, first you 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: tell us that it is men need to keep your word, 54 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: all right, If you are a man, you keep your word. 55 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: And now all of the black people in this country 56 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: are demanding, and even the black people in the whole 57 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: world are demanding, is that you keep your word. You 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: told us we were free, Well, then show us that 59 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: we're free. You told us that there is justice, equality 60 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: for all in this country. Will, then, kids, stick to 61 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: your word and let us see the justice inequality for all, 62 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: or else, admit to us that you're not a man, 63 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: you're a word. You're afraid of us. You're afraid to 64 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: give us equal stand. You're afraid that if you give 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: us equal ground, that we will match you and we 66 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: will override you. And if that's what you're afraid of us, 67 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: then then tell us that just what you're afraid of. 68 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: But don't keep hiding it from us and holding this 69 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: up to us. And every time we ask you for something, 70 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: you give us a little bit of something, and it's 71 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: all token is and we don't want tokenism. And they're 72 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 1: most black men in this world that don't want charity. 73 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: And yet still every time we ask you for something, 74 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: you give us a little piece. You're little piece. You're 75 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: playing games with us. Why not children? Well, well, big man, 76 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: I've seen my father have to put it. We're all 77 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. He was a big man. He raised 78 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: the family. He went downstown and he had to go 79 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: around to the bank door with his wife. We're not 80 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: asking for anything. We're not asking for any favorite. All 81 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: we want is what's ours. Here we are talking about reparations, 82 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: And what if the truth, the ugly truth, is that 83 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: America will never pay reparations to black people for slavery, 84 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: for Jim Crow, for what Lincoln called the wealth piled 85 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: by the bondsman, two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil, 86 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: for any of it. Do you really think that's the case, Areca, 87 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: After everything we've discussed here, hasn't any of this given 88 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: you a sense of hope? Well? Yes, of course. I 89 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: mean with all the good work being done by Congressman 90 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: Sheila Jackson Lee and all the women Robin Ruth Simmons, Yeah, 91 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: I mean there's a possibility that kind work may take 92 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: it up. But look at all the refusal by some 93 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: in Congress even to talk about reparations, even to study reparations. 94 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: What if there's something in the American psyche that just refuses, 95 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: refuses to let this get dragged across the finish line, 96 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, And what do you think that would be? 97 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: Paging Dr Freud? Paging Dr Freud? No, seriously, Erica, I 98 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: get the large segments of American population and some kind 99 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: of denial. We've heard it time and time again. I 100 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: did known slaves. It's not up to me, this doesn't 101 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: have anything to do with me. Haven't we done enough? 102 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: I mean, look at Obama, look at Kamala Harris, look 103 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: at the NBA, they're all millionaires exactly. Look at little 104 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: nas X, he's a country music millionaire. So and then, 105 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of course there's American exceptionalism, right, the idea that we're 106 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 1: so special, so different, so good, we're such a beaconto 107 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: the world, that our country's wealth and prosperity couldn't possibly 108 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: have been built on the crime of slavery. That's right. 109 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: We believe we're special and different because of capital d 110 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: democracy in seventeen seventy six and the Noble Experiment and 111 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: all that. What a downer to hear that, that's all bullshit. 112 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: And so we deny What do you mean we Chemo Sabi, Yes, 113 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: we deny. Or White America official America denies. For us, 114 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: it's the national myth of American exceptionalism. It's almost the 115 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: national drug. Other countries have their own unique reasons for 116 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: denying or not. You look at Germany and Japan and 117 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: war guilt and reparations for World War Two. Yeah, I mean, 118 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: look at Germany for all horrific crimes as a nation, 119 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: and they were horrific on an unprecedented scale. Germany is 120 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: recognized for having faced up to what they did. They 121 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: can't deny it, and they don't deny it. They've admitted 122 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: their guilt and starting the war. They also paid reparations 123 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: for starting World War One. They've admitted their guilt in 124 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: the Holocaust, They've owned it, and they've written history books 125 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: that way, and most important me for our discussion, they've 126 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: paid billions and billions in reparations to individual victims, to 127 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: other neighbor nations and to use as a class and 128 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: of course, German reparations helped build the state of Israel 129 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: as a unique nation. They've taken on the job of 130 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: making men's in a real way, yes, but it can 131 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: be more complicated than that on the ground for real 132 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: victims of Germany's aggression. Here's the testimony of one man 133 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: who was a child at the time of the German 134 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: conquest of Poland during World War Two, Mr Waldemar. Many Poles, 135 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: including Mr. Waldemar's parents, were taken as forced laborers from 136 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: Poland to Germany. His story illustrates the difficulty of actually 137 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: getting reparations in a country whose policy it is to 138 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: pay reparations. Mr Waldemar seventy seven years old and hasn't 139 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: gotten anything yet, but to his way of thinking, it 140 00:07:50,400 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: would never be enough. Tell it'spres lata Ignorovanni indogionist Zampen. 141 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: The subject of the reparations for the polls has been 142 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: always avoided since the times of the Federal Republic of Germany, 143 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: and it has never been ultimately finalized. To this day. 144 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: Each subsequent German government has ignored the settlement issue of 145 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: guilty German aggressors who took advantage of human beings to 146 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: build a magnitude of the Third Reich. The system and 147 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: the Nazi ideology does not justify martyrology. It confirms it. 148 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: An ultimate financial settlement in the form of reparations is 149 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: the only way to remedy the wrongs of the perpetrators. 150 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: My personal situation was that as a pole I was 151 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: born on September two four in nither Schlema, Germany. I 152 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: was a child to my parents, Stanislav and Alfreda, who 153 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: were taken from Poland to Germany as a forced labor 154 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: staff to work in a paper factory. When I became 155 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: an adult, I went to Polish German Reconciliation Foundation to 156 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: get compensation, but I was denied because I was told 157 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: that I was in Germany for a voluntary basis and 158 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: not forced to be there. The time to talk about 159 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: human harm and appreciation never expires. I, as my parents child, 160 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: never got any financial compensation. I found out later that 161 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: the heads of the Polish German Reconciliation Foundation granted each 162 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: other in total three hundred sixty two thousands lotti, which 163 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: equals to over ninety five thousand dollars, and the CEO 164 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: back then got hundred thousands lotti which equals to over 165 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: twenty six thousand dollars for the harm of the sufferers. 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: This was a big issue in the Polish media. A 167 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, I visited my birthplace in Germany. 168 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: This small house in which I was born is still there. 169 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: Times are different and people are different. The Germans live 170 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: in good prosperity, glory to the heroes of the war, 171 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: but they were said not to be owed anything. Nowadays, 172 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: the Germans are great economic strength. Why my father, as 173 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: a forced laborer, had natural skills to service machines, cars, 174 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: technical vehicles and tractors, but he could not service it 175 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: without proper certifications. Then the German factory sent him to 176 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: professional training against Vico. That means that even in war times, 177 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: in relation to a forced labor, the law was organized 178 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: very well. My grandparents, who were there too, used to 179 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: say the times were difficult. We strived just to survive. 180 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: According to my memory, the people felt cheated by the 181 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: pre war German government. Also after the war there was 182 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: a tendency to quickly forget about such painful events. Reparations 183 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: were ridiculously low. All the nations and all the people 184 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: in the world deserve civilized and worthy treatment. Reparations are 185 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: the matter that should be precisely scrutinized. America was raised 186 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: on the Native American's graves. What happened to the black 187 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: people in slavery times was a disgraceful act. They say, 188 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: this is the country of freedom, but the natives are 189 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: in reserves. When the black people fought for America, they 190 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: showed their dedication to the country. They fought for their 191 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: American freedom. If they have relatives living to this day, 192 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: they should be rewarded for that. We also should strongly 193 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: separate America from Columbus times and after the formation of 194 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: the American country the USA should only be accountable exclusively 195 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: for what happened to the slaves once the nation was formed. 196 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: We obviously can't question a terrible loss of the black 197 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: lives before that, But it would be really difficult to 198 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: verify who would be eligible to get the money. So 199 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: then how to calculate it? Certainly from one thousand, seven 200 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: hundred seventy six, but how many generations back? For The 201 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: danger lies in the commission's decision. What if someone is 202 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: not granted, will there be another rebellion? How to educate 203 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: people about the reparations so that there were not people 204 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: who would have felt left out. I believe that the 205 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: reparations should be granted to the oldest eligible descendants in 206 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: the family, or the children if they have already died. 207 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: In contemporary Poland, I became a member of an organization 208 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: called Office for Veterans and Repressed People. They have been 209 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: existing only for the past two years. I was issued 210 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: an idea which states I was due to my parents 211 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: obvious situation there someone who was in the work camp 212 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: to become a member. The major condition was to be 213 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: born either in Germany or in the Soviet Union before 214 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: the end of World War Two, Having this organization as 215 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: a back up, I can reapply to the Polish German 216 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: Reconciliation Foundation to get a reasonable reparation. They said, I 217 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: can do it. That is my right, and I'm going 218 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: to take advantage of it. Still though, however, clumsily or 219 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: stingially at times, Germany has acknowledged worldwide as clearly having 220 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: been in the reparations business. Right. Yes. Well. Japan, by contrast, 221 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: is like who us, No way, we don't want to 222 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: talk about that. You can't make us, No, no, no no, 223 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: no no, you can't make us China, Korea, Southeast Asia, 224 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: the rape of Nanjing for slave labor, comfort women. You 225 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. Talk about denial. It 226 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: takes daily maintenance. And they're so stuck on this Erica 227 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: and they won't be moved, you know, they cling to 228 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: their own special kind of specialness. You know, Japan is 229 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: too unique, two above it all too much of a 230 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: rare and beautiful chrysanthemum, any of these ugly things. And 231 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: as the World War two generation is all but gone, 232 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: and as each year goes by, they've kind of hardened 233 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: into this position. You hear in America that was such 234 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: a long time ago. It's such a deflection. We have 235 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: a nice new emperor. Have you seen our bullet trains? 236 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: They're very fast and for them, we're talking what only 237 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: eighty years Well, meanwhile, in America, slavery ended one hundred 238 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: and sixty years ago. And you know, Erica, most Americans, 239 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: black or white, can't remember what they had for lunch yesterday, 240 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of times they don't want to remember. Yeah, 241 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: what's that? But how much harder than slavery and Jim Crow. 242 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: Along with the myth of American exceptionalism comes this idea 243 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: of America as a young country, a forward looking country, 244 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: young country on the move, heading for the new frontier. 245 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: We don't do looking back. Yeah, we pay Ken Burns 246 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: to look back to the rest of us don't have to. 247 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: That's right, exactly right, But oh my god, ken Burns 248 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: talk about verbations. We go on all day about him, 249 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: but hey, we ain't got that kind of time. Let's 250 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: talk about the motto of the city of Atlanta. Atlanta 251 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: the city too busy to hate, perfect for the new South. 252 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: Talk about a successful rebranding. But then here it comes 253 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: to black people always dragging everything down and white America 254 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: official America's like, why do you people have to make 255 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: everything about race? You people? What you mean? You people? 256 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: Which is funny coming from the people who invented race 257 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: as a construct in order to feel better about kidnapping 258 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: my black ass from Africa and bringing me here to 259 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: do all that free work than keeping me from having 260 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: rights or freedom or justice and murdering random members of 261 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: my family to keep me in line. Yeah, I'm making 262 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: it all about race. I hate when you do that. 263 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: Then again, I'm also too busy to hate. How nice 264 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: for you. I've got an even worse scenario for you, though, 265 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: worse than Black America not getting reparations. What would be 266 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: worse than not getting reparations? Whitney? You ever owe somebody money? Me, 267 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm a documentary filmmaker. I never don't owe somebody money. 268 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: You ever owe somebody money? And you get this feeling 269 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: when you owe somebody money and you see them coming around, 270 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: you start to hate them, right, like funk that guy right, 271 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: and you feel like they're looking at you. They're looking 272 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: at you like you posted on Facebook that you had 273 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: a nice meal. But how are you gonna do that? 274 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: When you owe me money? How do you get for 275 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: one Red Lobster Special when you won't between nine fifty. 276 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: I feel like they're clocking everything you do and you 277 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: hate them, you would hate them. Get off my Facebook, man, 278 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: what asshole? That's can't be tasting funny anyway. And this 279 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: goes on and they're looking at you with that look 280 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: like you know the look, come on, you know the 281 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: look there it is m mm hmmm, and there's this 282 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: bad blood. And then one day the apocalypse, they asked 283 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: you for the money. They ask you for the money. 284 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, use this song only coming here? Why 285 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: are you coming over here? They're go look the money 286 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: and they get all up in your grill and they 287 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: ask you for a goddamn money. They're like, um, I say, 288 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: I hate to bother you and I was just wondering 289 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: and you're like, put abusing me and back up, Jesus. 290 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean, god damn, I'm triggering as a bunk right now. 291 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: Don't you see what did I have? Fift? Do you say, 292 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: let me get back to you, asshole? Well that's America. 293 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: They owe us money. Everyone knows it. Their friends around 294 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: the world know it. So what happens they start to 295 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: hate us. I mean they already hate this, but now 296 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: a new and different kind of grudges building, Like I 297 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: bet those black folks are out there clocking my Facebook page, 298 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: Like I just spent a trillion dollars on going back 299 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: to space, but I can't pay reparations. So you're saying 300 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: the very act of asking for reparations, Yes, the series 301 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: right now, ask the getting close like we're doing now, 302 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: we'll have the very perverse effect of making things worse 303 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: for black Americans. Stop triggering me, man, Stop triggering me. Yeah, 304 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: we don't get the money, and we're more screwed than 305 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: we were before, and black people are getting angrier. We 306 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: won't agreement about which we can live or you cute 307 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: if you won't listen to me when I'm making a 308 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: feel for the Negros, because you have no concerned for 309 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: the negros, listen to me when I'm making a feel 310 00:19:52,880 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: for murder. You claim you law America. Are we love America? 311 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: But you are traveling us back and you are making 312 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: a Sampson out of us, and we are gonna put 313 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: down the pillow. Should you try to pretend that I'm 314 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: crazy because I brought the America to be saved, and 315 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: then you think we have no right to ask for something. 316 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 1: Is it too much to ask you to grant us 317 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: human dignity? Should we be put down and shot to 318 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: death for this request? If so, you can aim your guns. 319 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: What the hell do you think we care about dying 320 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: if you're gonna deny the right to live? Wow, Erica, 321 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: that's pretty bleak. So you're saying that, after all we've 322 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: talked about, that's the examples we've heard, the people, we've 323 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: talked to, the different initiatives. Even after contributing to the 324 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: discourse ourselves with this discussion, however much we moved needle forward. 325 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: What you're saying is you're still pessimistic. Well, I look, 326 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: I I don't know if that's the word. I'd use pessimistic. 327 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: What's a worse word than pessimistic, because uh, that's what 328 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: I feel. But that metaphor I used earlier of dragging 329 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: something like over the finish line. Yeah, I don't know 330 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: if there's an energy or the will for it in 331 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: this country. I just I don't know. I don't know 332 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: that I've been money on it. Reparations are almost the 333 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: photo negative of the Obama presidency. What do you mean 334 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: hard versus easy? Time consuming versus quick painful versus painless. 335 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: I remember when Obama was running, my late father in law, 336 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: black man born in Virginia, kept saying, they're never gonna 337 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: let that black man become president. I remember him crying 338 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: the night of Obama won. What he maybe hadn't reckoned 339 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: with was how badly white America wanted to be forgiven 340 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: for the crime of slavery. How voting for Obama was 341 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: a simple way in their minds, at least to expiate 342 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: that sin in one easy step, to get a get 343 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: out of jail free car, to say, see, I'm not 344 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 1: my ancestors. I voted for a black man, get out 345 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: of jail free. But it's not that simple or that easy, 346 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: exactly doing the work, the hard work of looking squarely 347 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: at that sin, taking the time to calculate its terrible cost, 348 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: acknowledging the hurt and the damage done, and paying money 349 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: as a real tangible way of atoning for and exploiting 350 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: that great sin. That's going to be hard, if it's 351 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: going to be at all. If it's going to be 352 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: at all, you know, Erica. Maybe the ugly truth is 353 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: that race racism is the ultimate business model. It's been 354 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: more than successful for the centuries. Just look at the 355 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: shining Empire. We we white people, built on its foundation, yep. 356 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's worked 357 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: for hundreds of years. And that may be the realist, 358 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: ugliest truthliest truth of all. And you know who understands 359 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: the ugliest truths and tries to make them plain so 360 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: we can look them in their ugly face. My main man, 361 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: that natural born genius killer Mike. The ugly truth is 362 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: racism has been extremely profitable for America. It gave America 363 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: an economic jump start when it was a young country 364 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: trying to compete with empires like the United Kingdom in France. 365 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: America used free labor, cotton, and the Industrial Revolution to 366 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: get a jump start to the world stage. Post slavery 367 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: and with the advent of the Thirteenth Amendment, which disallows 368 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: slavery except for imprisonment, we saw a huge spike in 369 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: the black male prison population throughout the South, and chain 370 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: gangs were used to build everything from rhodes to actual hounds, 371 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: a practice still followed today, as in Mississippi we see 372 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: federal and state officials fighting over who gets to use 373 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: cheap and free convict labor to do upkeep of buildings. 374 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: Besides that free labor, we are currently building new private 375 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: prisons to put in small towns to serve as economic 376 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: injectors in those towns. Those towns, oftentimes and the greater 377 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: State have made contracts with private prisons to keep them 378 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: seventy to eighty percent field, thus giving the motivation to 379 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: target i think, in one particular group of people and 380 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: to target them for a rest, for not the punishment 381 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: of a crime, but for the perpetuation of private prisons. 382 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: We have a problem in this country and that we 383 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 1: like to use cheap labor to create wealth. On the 384 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: other side, and the community that has been used for 385 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: cheap labor the most are black people. I've leave that 386 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: as a country, we can be the country we aspire 387 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: to be, where there's liberty and justice for all, but 388 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: we can no longer do this if we are married 389 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: to the classic capitalistic system in which we use and 390 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: abuse the people that were brought here for free or 391 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: cheap labor, just like we do migrant workers now, just 392 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: like we've done Africans in the past, just like they 393 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: did the Chinese during the making of railroads, just like 394 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: they've done even the Irish and the Latino population that 395 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: came into New York through Ellis Islands in the twenties, 396 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: thirties and nine. This country knows that a different way 397 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: is possible. The question is are we too lazy and 398 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: apathetic to try a different way. I was struck one 399 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: time when I saw a white man being arrested in 400 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: an airport and he said to the police, you can't 401 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: do me like this. I'm black. And just like Jane 402 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: Elliott has said before in her classes when she asked 403 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: white people, if you know these things are happening, you 404 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: know they're going wrong, why don't you do anything about it? 405 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: Because they wan't volunteer to be black. They know if 406 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: I volunteer to be black, I can put across here. 407 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: Whether it's speeding tickets or whether it's we know every 408 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: police shooting has happened in a area where the credit 409 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: scores below five fifty. It is easy to target black, 410 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 1: and not only black with the poor. Racism is an 411 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: advent of classism. Classism is an advent of the bourgeoisie 412 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: and the elite, meant to oppress the peasant class. If 413 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: we don't start to fight racism right now in this country, 414 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: then we will forever remain an empire that uses the 415 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: free labor of black people to exploit and capitalize off of. 416 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: We have an opportunity in this moment to give people 417 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: what we truly promise as freedom and justice for all 418 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: that means. We must fight, fight, fight, every step of 419 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: the way against racism. And it's not enough to be 420 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: non racist, you must be vehemently anti racist. Next time 421 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: on reparations, the big payback here I am in gun 422 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: it is hot to say the least they ever have 423 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: a great back to Africa movement unless they get better 424 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: air conditioning. I gotta ask you a question because I 425 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: hadn't thought of this until the other night. But here 426 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: we aren't gone, and here we are at the dungeon, 427 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: slavey dungeon. The people who helped these people getting or Africans, 428 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: do they have any sort of responsibility or accountability to 429 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: the diaspora. I think the answer would have to be yes, 430 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: they have to take some responsibility. But I think that 431 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: we also have to put it in a certain historical context, 432 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: because you know, slavery had always existed in the world. 433 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: There was no time and there wasn't slavery and the 434 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: Africans themselves practice slavery. Every place in the world there 435 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: was slavery, and so when slavery was introduced as part 436 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: of the European African trade, historically there would have been 437 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: no way for the Africans would always existed knowing there 438 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: was slavery. To understand, the chattel slavery is a new institution. 439 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: It did not exist in the world before. Chattel slavery 440 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: is that slavery where you, the slave, are the same 441 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: as a cow. You are chattel, you are furniture, you 442 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: are you, You're not a human being. So the slavery 443 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: that was invented for the New World to grow cotton 444 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: and sugar and whatever was a slavery that was a 445 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: new invention. So you can't really you have to take 446 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: responsibility to the Africans have to take responsibility, but you 447 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: have to put in the context of what they knew. 448 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: So the Africans who said when the Europeans came and 449 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: said okay, well we can give you this and this 450 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: and this, and you can give us slaves, and they thought, okay, 451 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: that's a good deal. How can they be responsible for 452 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: knowing what was going to happen across the Atlantic and 453 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: then you also have to look historically at when many 454 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: of the big chiefs found out or got word that 455 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: this was something told different that was going on, many 456 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: of them intervened to stop the trade of slaves. So 457 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: that's not to say that means that they're completely innocent, 458 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: but you can't then just whitewash them or blackwash them, 459 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: or however you want to say, with the same brush 460 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: as those who did the actual execution of this unique 461 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: slavery called chattel slavery that had not existed in the 462 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: world before. This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander then 463 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: are Non and Ntaw. The executive producers are Charlemagne the 464 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: God and Dolly s. Bishop. The supervising producer is Nicole Childers, 465 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: and the lead producer is Devin Mavick Robins. The Associate 466 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: producer is Kevin Pham, with additional research support provided by 467 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: Nile Blast. This episode was written by Tony Perrier. Original 468 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: music by d J D T P. Special thanks to 469 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: Mr valdamot Ogret Nitzak and his daughter Sylvia Ogretnitzak, who 470 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: prepared and wrote his story reparations. The Big Payback is 471 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: a production of color Farm Media. I Heart Radio and 472 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network in association with Best Case Studios. 473 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i 474 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 475 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.