1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 3: A star is born. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 4: Utton Kennedy. 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: He is the. 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 4: Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 5: I feel for the guy. 9 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 3: I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 10 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: But those two percent that are nasty, they are I'll 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: they in four post. 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: We're meant for great things in the United States of America, 13 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: and Elon reminds us of that. 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 3: I'm very disappointed in Elon. 15 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 4: I've helped Elon a lot. 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 17 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, July First. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. The 18 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: fight is back on in one Donald J. Trump, in 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 2: the other Elon Musk, and over the past few days, 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: tensions between the two men have built and built to 21 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 2: the point that the barbs and threats are flying once again. 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: It's a quickly evolving situation. So we're beaming in from 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: DC Ace Bloomberg political reporter and fellow Cohn College alum 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 2: Josh Green to break it down for us. Hey, Josh, 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: go Camels go Camels. Later on Elon inks Stalwart, Denna 26 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: Hall and I will catch up on Tesla, where there's 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: something of a management shake up in the works that 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: comes just before we get a fresh look at the 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: sad state of the company's EV sales. And then we'll 30 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: talk briefly with an old pal of mine, our executive 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: editor for Latin America, Creighton Harrison, to go over a 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: new Musk feud brewing south of the border. Okay, so Josh, 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: for those out there who have missed round two of 34 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: the fight, bring them up to speed. It all seemed 35 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: to start on Saturday. 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so if we rewind about a month, you know, 37 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: the tweets were flying. Trump and Elon were going back 38 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: and forth. The whole world was sort of watching like 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: in drop jawed amazement. You know, we remember all these 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: personal attacks on Twitter and the Epstein files and that, 41 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: and essentially Elon's kind of friends just like held him 42 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: back like you do in. 43 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 5: The school school yard play. 44 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: Oh well, Elon has broken containment and in the last 45 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: I guess twenty four hours forty eight hours, has started 46 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: tweeting like more and more hysterically about all the things 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: that are wrong with Trump's big, beautiful bill, mainly the 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: fact that they cut his ev green energy subsidies and 49 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: stand to cost his companies. I would assume, you know, tens, 50 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: not one, hundreds of millions of dollars. But he's become 51 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: critical of the bill. He's threatened Republicans to just support it. 52 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: First he said he's going to primary them. Then he 53 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: said he's going to start a centrist third party he 54 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: wants to call the American Party. And then he started 55 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: tweeting memes of Pinocchio and sort of shaming these guys 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: for grandiose levels of hypocrisy for saying that they want 57 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: to balance the budget while they're blowing. 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 5: It wide open with this new Republican spending bill. 59 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: Well, we have to say that he has something of 60 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: a point. I mean, this bill will indeed absolutely add 61 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: to deficits in the debt. And of course, this is, 62 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 2: you know, something that's been going on for years and 63 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: years now from both sides of the aisle. Right now 64 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: it's the Republican's turn to do so again. And he 65 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: definitely seems to become a bit obsessed with the debt issue. 66 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: You know, basically, Elon is belatedly discovering what anybody with 67 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: two eyes, and Washington already knows, which is that while 68 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: Republicans talk a big game about concern over the deficit, 69 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: at the same time, for decades, they happily vote for 70 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: bills that will increase the deficit. I think in this case, 71 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: the CBO, the Congregional Bushet Office, has said that it's 72 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: going to increase the deficit by something like three trillion dollars. 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: And it would be even worse if Republicans weren't clowing 74 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: back some of that money by zeroing out a lot 75 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: of these clean energy and ev subsidies that are costing 76 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: Elon as well. So, on the one hand, his whole 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: program of doge and finding all these cuts and balancing 78 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: the budget hasn't really worked out. Budget's going to get 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: much much much bigger the budget deficit is, and at 80 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: the same time it's going to cost Elon personally a 81 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: lot of his companies, and you know, judging from his 82 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: social media posts over the last few days, he just 83 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: seems to have gotten into one of those kind of 84 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: angry cycles where he's kind of mass tweeting to the 85 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: point that Trump took notice and at like one in 86 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: the morning the other night, sort of said like threateningly, well, look, 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: you know you, Elon, your companies are huge beneficiary of 88 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: these subsidies. Maybe we'll take a look at some of 89 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: your stuff. And I think even said this to reporters 90 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: and a gaggle, that he might want to want to 91 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,559 Speaker 1: doze Elon Musk's own companies, the same way that Musk 92 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: doged the government when he was in there trying to 93 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: find I don't know, I know, he. 94 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: Might have to put doze on Elan. You know, you 95 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: know doj is dose is the monster that has that 96 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: might have to go back and eat Elon. Wouldn't that 97 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: be there? Bus For a while, it seemed like Trump 98 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: sort of like in round one, Trump was trying to 99 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: ignore Musk and hoping it would go away, and Musk 100 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: was just boxing against himself in the middle of the ring. 101 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: But at some point, indeed, as you're saying, Trump jumped 102 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 2: in sort of tepidly at first, and then he kind 103 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: of kept building momentum, the threatening to sick Doze, the 104 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: Doge kids, josh On, the Doge father man. 105 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean big balls. 106 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: Going after Elon would be like Luke going after Darth Vader, 107 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, imagine imagine the showdown that. 108 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: You must have been listening in to me and our 109 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: producer here, Magnus Hendricks in this morning, because I think 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 2: that's that reference came up. But any even it didn't 111 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: just stop at threatening to unleash the Doge kids on 112 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: the Doze. Father. Trump also raised the specter of deporting Musk, 113 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: which I don't know. I'm not sure about the legality 114 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: of such a move, but it seems to keep coming up. 115 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 5: Now, Yeah, it does. 116 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: And as usual with a lot of things that kind 117 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: of burrow into Trump's brain, I think the genesis of 118 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: the deport Elon idea came from Trump's former chief strategist Steve. 119 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 5: Bannon, who is now a big media. 120 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: Personality on his podcast The War Room, somebody I've written 121 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: about quite a bit, talked to a lot. Bannon famously 122 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: feuded with Elon over the first you know, six months 123 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: of the Trump administration. 124 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 5: I think ultimately kind of won that feud. 125 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I will interrupt briefly say, Josh, it's 126 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: funny because initially, for a week, the first few weeks, 127 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: the first few months, it looked like not only was 128 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: Bannon losing, it looked like he was getting his head kicked. 129 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: But now you're absolutely right. Seems to look like not 130 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: only is he winning, he's winning in an enormous. 131 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: Way, Yeah, in an enormous way. And and once Elon 132 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: kind of fell out with Trump, something that Bannon helped 133 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: kind of spur and provoke. Bannon has done a kind 134 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: of danced on Elon's political grave, if you will, And 135 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: as Elon's criticism ramped up, I think Bannon was the 136 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: one who first called to deport Elon, which is which 137 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: is how I think reporters and Trump first got winto this. 138 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: But is the careful journalist that I am, Guys. I 139 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: actually texted Bannon right before the show to say, hey, 140 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: just checking my facts here, just in okay, this just 141 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: in like in the last three minutes. I said, did 142 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: you start the whole deport Elon push? I'm about to 143 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: do a podcast, Just want to check my facts. Bannon 144 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: just texted back, he said, quote me to port the 145 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: arrogance back to South Africa. So I take that as 146 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: a confirmation that bannonon was a genesis of all this. 147 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: And then reporters asked it to Trump and Trump said, yeah, 148 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: that's something that I'm thinking about. 149 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: So well, there we are. 150 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: It's a cycle of life, and like the Trump era 151 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: media narratives, this is how they begin and metastasize. 152 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: It's also a note to sell that don't ever pick 153 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: a fight with Steve Benn. You know, for a while, 154 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: it looked like the thing, like I said, was an 155 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: absolute wipeout. You know, Musk was just dominating. He was 156 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: in the West wing all the time. You know, he 157 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: and Trump were bosom buddies. Bannon was on the outside 158 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: looking in and screaming at the top of his lungs 159 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: and getting nowhere. But I suppose he was playing a 160 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: bit of a long game and he is having his 161 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: moment now. As I said earlier, Josh, I don't know 162 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: about the legality of deporting a naturalized citizen, but this 163 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: administration has shown itself willing to unearth heterodox legal theories 164 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: to make things happen. So I suppose who the hell knows. 165 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's got a fairly compliance Supreme Court, So 166 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: if Trump wanted to make a stab at it. One 167 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: of the conspiracy theories Bannon has pushed is that is 168 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: that Musk himself was an illegal immigrant at some point, 169 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: and you know, if the government is sort of digging 170 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: up offenses from from decades ago as pretext. I poor people, 171 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: Why couldn't they deport Musk too? Now, we don't know 172 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: if there's any truth to that, And I will say, 173 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: as a veteran Trump observer, I don't really take his 174 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: threat too seriously because Trump never rules anything out. Like 175 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: if a reporter asks him, you know, mister President, or 176 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: will you consider you think about deporting Elon Musk? He'll 177 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: say something, well, we're going to take a look at that. Well, 178 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: Trump will take a look at anything you want to 179 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: ask him about. That doesn't necessarily mean he's going to 180 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: follow through on it. So if I were Elon, I'd 181 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: be a little bit nervous, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't 182 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: necessarily be a lot nervous. 183 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: Understood Now, Elon on his end, is not letting up. 184 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: He keeps banging the drum. As you said, he initially 185 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: was threatening to primary any embers of the Senate and 186 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: perhaps of the House as well, who backed these tax 187 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: cuts in this bill, the big beautiful bill. He's talking 188 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: about forming a new party, as you said, the America Party. 189 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: Let's start with the primarying threat does he have at 190 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: this point in time, the ability through threats and money 191 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: and coercion and so on and so forth, to change 192 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: any votes on Capitol Hill. 193 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 5: You know, I really don't think he does. 194 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: I think Elon thinks that that money and tweets are 195 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: the most powerful form of political currency. But anyone with 196 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: any level of sophistication in US politics knows that, at 197 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: least when it comes to Republican politics, it's Trump's endorsement 198 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: that matters. That's ninety eight percent of the ballgame. Elon's 199 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: money might be the other two percent. I think what 200 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: finally provoked Trump into attacking Elon this second time around 201 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: was that, you know, he's in the middle of trying 202 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: to pass his big, beautiful bill. There are a lot 203 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: of Republican holdouts. It's going to be a very tight 204 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: vote either way, and I think Trump began to worry 205 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: that Elon's threats of dumping money into these primary races 206 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: might give some swing voter's cold feet and in perils bill. 207 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: That's why he kind of issued the threats. But as 208 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: far as Elon Musk on his own being able to 209 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: recruit and fund dozens, presumably of candidates to challenge Republican incumbents, 210 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: I think is just folly. I mean, he doesn't have 211 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: that kind of political power. I don't think he has 212 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: the attention span to follow through on any of this 213 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: for a minute, and I think if he did, it 214 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: would be an expensive boondoggle because in a lot of ways, 215 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: as influential as Elon Musk has been in American politics 216 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: over the last year or so, in some ways he 217 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: strikes me as one of the most naive people I 218 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: have ever encountered at a high level of national politics, 219 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: because he fundamentally really doesn't understand what the levels of 220 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: power are and how they work. If you are a 221 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy theorist prone to living your life on social media 222 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: the way that Musk is, you think that money and 223 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: backroom deals are kind of how things happen and how 224 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Washington operates, but they're really not. Politicians deal with pressure 225 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: from their constituents and from the people above them. And 226 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: right now in the Republican Party, Donald Trump is one 227 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: hundred million times more important than Elon Musk, and a 228 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: lot of these Republicans don't want to get crosswise with 229 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. 230 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: So you're very dubious that Musk manages to put together 231 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 2: a slate of candidates to primary those who back to Bill. 232 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: I suppose then by extension, you're even more dubious of 233 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: the creation and the sustainability of the Great American Party. 234 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 235 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: Look, the idea of a rich guy forming a centrist 236 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: third party is such like a tired, cliched idea that 237 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: so many rich people and kind of gadfly political figures 238 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: have had before that it's sort of astonishing to me 239 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: that he's just sort of stumbling on for the first 240 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: you know, onto this idea for the first time. 241 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: I had an epiphany. 242 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: He's making the same mental mistake that every one of 243 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: these rich guys makes. That I the rich guy, I 244 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: am not happy with Republican accesses or Democratic excesses. I 245 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: want something right in the middle. I want a political 246 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: party that agrees with every single one of my views. 247 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: I think there's a huge constituency out for that, And 248 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: if there isn't, I'll take my money and just buy one. 249 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 5: That's just not the way American politics works. So he could. 250 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: Drop, you know what, he spent three hundred million dollars 251 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: back in Trump. He could drop three hundred million dollars 252 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: starting an American Party, centrist party. And I don't think 253 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: he would manage to get one electoral vote or win 254 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: one seat in the House or Senate. I mean, if 255 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: there's you say I'm dubious, if there is there a 256 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: word beyond dubious. 257 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: Like, I mean, yeah, I feel like during our time 258 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: at Connecticut College, they must have told taught us. 259 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I was an English majorld I should 260 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: know this stuff. But yeah, I think everybody viewsed this 261 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: as sour grapes and empty threats from Elin. 262 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 2: I guess okay, now I need a prediction from you 263 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: as we wrap up here this first segment. You may 264 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: be familiar or you may not. With an acronym Max 265 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: Chapkin launched a couple weeks back mamoot Josh mamoot, which 266 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: is m a m u w T. Musk always makes 267 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: up with Trump. This was a riff on taco. You know, 268 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: Trump always chickens out. Yeah, y decided to come up 269 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: with their own, and so then these listeners, or one 270 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: listener in particular, came up with a bunch of you know, 271 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: Mexican dish acronyms and chillada and burrito that all essentially 272 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: said the same thing. Musk, who has a lot more 273 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: to lose than Trump, always makes up with Trump. So 274 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: I ask you, is this the second of many rounds 275 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: between the two of them? Is it a second of two? 276 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: How does the fight end? Do we indeed get mam 277 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: moot or does it end with big Balls taking out 278 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: Musk at Trump's behest? 279 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 5: I don't know. 280 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: I think there's sort of a half life to these things. 281 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, the first fight was big and sort of 282 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: powerful and exciting, and this one's a little bit less so. 283 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: And I think ultimately Musk is going to wind up, 284 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: as so many people on Twitter or x do, is 285 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: just you know, a guy kind of complaining into the 286 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: void who hasn't really listened to anymore. I think that 287 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: if Musk's companies are explicitly threatened, someone will prevail on 288 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: him to kind of quiet down and smooth things over 289 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: with Trump temporarily. It's hard for me to ever imagine 290 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: that he'll fully recover his status in Trump's universe. Guy 291 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: who just re parachute into mar A Lago, sit at 292 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: the President's dinner table and get all sorts of things 293 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: that he wanted to. I think that ship has sailed. 294 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: But you know, at the end of the day, Musk 295 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: needs Trump more than Trump needs Musk, and so he's 296 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: going to have to kind of bow down and kiss 297 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: the ring, or at least quiet down, if he wants 298 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: to stop Trump from going after a lot of his companies. 299 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: I mean, one danger that Elon and his investors certainly 300 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: must be aware of is that Trump is a vindictive guy, 301 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: and he has focused his entire second term on retribution. 302 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: And you know, if Elon falls in the crosshairs, he 303 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: has an awful lot to lose. And I don't think 304 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: that Trump necessarily does. Trump is gonna run for office again, 305 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: so he doesn't need another three hundred million dollars from Elon. 306 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: All he needs from Elon is to not screw up 307 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: the passage of his big beautiful Bill, which I think 308 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: he's probably accomplished, and after that, Elon can complain all 309 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: he wants. But I don't think he's going to get 310 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: back into Trump's good graces. And there's certainly a core 311 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: group of MAGA Trump supporters, led by people like Steve Bannon, 312 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: who absolutely loathe Elon and want to stab him in 313 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: the back anyway they can, whether that's canceling NASA contracts 314 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: or zeroing out EV subsidies or what have you. 315 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: I actually don't think they want to stab him in 316 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: the back. The sense I have is they want to stab. 317 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 5: Them well, they want to stab him the front. Yeah. 318 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: Okay, right, mister Green, thank you so much as a pleasure. 319 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: Oh and as it turns out, the Senate just this 320 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: second passed the big beautiful bill, sending it now back 321 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: to the house. Okay, let's talk Tesla now. Lots going 322 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 2: on there, and we have Dana to bring us up 323 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: to speed on it all. 324 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 4: Dana, Hello, Hey David, good to be back. 325 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: So, Dana, you had be in the scoop machine. You 326 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: are a terrific scoop last week that everyone followed, and 327 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: you followed it up yourself with another scoop. A gentleman 328 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: by the name of Omaed af Shar left Tesla as 329 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: part of what seems like maybe a bit of a bigger, 330 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: broader shake up there. Tell us about it. 331 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, so this was wild. I mean, oh Mead joined 332 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 4: Tesla in twenty seventeen basically as an assistant. He worked 333 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 4: for Sam Teller, who was Elon's chief of staff, and 334 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 4: then through the Model three ramp and as time went on, 335 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 4: like oh Meed consolidated power and really was Elon Musk's 336 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 4: right hand man. Four years he oversaw the construction of 337 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 4: the gigafactory in Texas. He often traveled with Elon. He 338 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 4: was like sort of front and center, as like the 339 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 4: right hand guy. And if you ask people within Tesla, 340 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 4: like where does the power lie, it was always with 341 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 4: oh Mead. So the fact that O Mead is now 342 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 4: out is really stunning for Tesla watchers. I mean, Oh 343 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 4: Mead has been the key for a really long time, 344 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 4: and it's just sort of goes to show that, you know, 345 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 4: even Elon's closest confidence don't always last. I just never 346 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 4: thought i'd see the day that Omed himself would be ousted. 347 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 2: You use that term ousted, it is your sense in 348 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 2: your reporting that he indeed was ousted and did not 349 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: opt to leave himself correct. 350 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 4: And it's tricky, you know, we don't use the word 351 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 4: fired because frankly, I don't know. I mean, sometimes people 352 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 4: are strongly encouraged to resign. Sometimes the writing is on 353 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 4: the wall. I mean, ousted seems fair. But you know, 354 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 4: I wasn't in the meeting when this happened, so we 355 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 4: had to be a little bit careful about the language. 356 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 4: Other outlets have said fired. We said, has exited. 357 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 3: I believe got it. 358 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 2: Now, his departure does come on the heels. I don't 359 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: necessarily know, like in the immediate aftermath of some of 360 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: these other departures, but it is one now of several 361 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: in recent months, right, yeah, I mean. 362 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 4: Listen, Tesla has turnover in the executive ranks, and there 363 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 4: have been some high profile departures this year of Milan Kovak, 364 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 4: who oversaw the Optimist spot, David Lao, who was the 365 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 4: VP of vehicle software. So yeah, there have been some departures. 366 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 4: I think that one thing I want to make clear is, 367 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 4: you know, a lot of people are blaming this on sales, 368 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 4: but that doesn't totally make sense to me because Obeid 369 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 4: was really the person who oversaw manufacturing in the gigafactory 370 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 4: in Texas, and then the sales directors reported to him. 371 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 4: But like, I feel like this must be about something 372 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 4: larger than just the bad quarter. I mean, something else 373 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 4: must have happened. That is my instinct. 374 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: Now, when you say the bad quarter in sales, you 375 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: mean the first quarter. You mean the quarter that's about 376 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: to end or that did just end yesterday, and that 377 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: we're going to get I believe figures on tomorrow. 378 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm speaking about the second quarter. So 379 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 4: all indications are that Tesla's going to see another pretty 380 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 4: drastic year over year decline. You know, in the second 381 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 4: quarter of twenty twenty four, Tesla delivered four hundred and 382 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 4: forty four thousand vehicles. You know, this quarter, You've got 383 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 4: some analysts like Ryan Brinkman as low as three sixty k. 384 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 4: You know, Musk has always said that people don't like 385 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 4: to buy cars in the winter, but I mean it's 386 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 4: quite possible that they also don't like to buy cars 387 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 4: in the spring, in the summer. So you know, we 388 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 4: won't know until we get the figures tomorrow. 389 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 2: Right now when it comes to Tesla, as it seems 390 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 2: like they don't like to buy them indeed in the winter, 391 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: the spring, the summer, in the fall unfortunately. 392 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 4: So the other thing that's happening is that now you know, 393 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 4: Elon always focuses his on tension on the are the 394 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 4: parts of the company where there are issues. So as 395 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 4: we just reported today, now the head of North American sales, 396 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 4: Troy Jones, who used to work to OMEED, is now 397 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 4: reporting directly to Elon. So Elon is taking a more 398 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 4: active role in overseeing the sales operation in both the 399 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 4: US and Europe. 400 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: I did read that this morning, and as you said, 401 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: indeed another great scoop from you and the crew. It 402 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: made me laugh just a little, because, of course, it 403 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 2: feels like overwhelmingly much of the sales issues that Tesla 404 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: has are have been created by Mosk. So and now 405 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: he has tasked himself with fixing the problems that he himself, 406 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: through his political endeavors, has created. And as you often 407 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: point out, Dan, he pulls things off like this all 408 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 2: the time. He's got a pretty big task ahead of 409 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: me here, though. 410 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think you know, look, it's not 411 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 4: just Elon's politics, it's the vehicle lineup. I mean, you 412 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 4: had people inside the company pushing Musk to make a 413 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 4: more affordable, truly mass market twenty five thousand dollars car, 414 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 4: and Elon didn't go for that, and he instead we 415 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 4: have the cyber truck, which has like a weird cult 416 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 4: following in some quarters, but by all accounts is like 417 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 4: a bit of a dud in terms of being a 418 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 4: high volume mover. I mean, it has been subject to 419 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 4: scores of recalls. 420 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 2: So right, so there have been scores of cyber truck recalls, 421 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: and you says right, it has this a little bit 422 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: of a cult falling, but it's broadly speaking been a dot. 423 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: And we have the cyber truck and we don't have 424 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: that cheap, mass model. 425 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 4: Veh and now we have enormous policy uncertainty with the 426 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 4: federal government and all of the incentives that Tesla has 427 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 4: greatly benefited from through you know, tax credits for electric 428 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 4: vehicle purchases and the Inflation Reduction Actor are you know, 429 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 4: potentially on the shopping block here, depending on what happens 430 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 4: with the Senate bill today. So you know, Tesla is 431 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 4: in a bad spot, and you know, I don't see 432 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 4: how they're going to turn around sales. I mean, and 433 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 4: that's why you're seeing Musk. You know, the focus for 434 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 4: him is all about the Robotaxi because that's going to 435 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 4: be their next big thing. And Elon is always about 436 00:22:58,920 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 4: the next big thing. 437 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 2: Now I have seen Dan some of these new model 438 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: Whys trickling out. I've seen them out in the wild. 439 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 2: Not a cause for optimism of any kind. The Why refresh, I. 440 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 4: Mean, I think it's a great refresh, but it's a refresh, 441 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: it's not a new model. And then when you get 442 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 4: back to the issue of Musk's politics, you know here 443 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 4: in the Bay Area at all, over California and probably 444 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 4: much of the world right now, you know, you see 445 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 4: these Tesla cars that have the sticker that say I 446 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 4: bought this before Elon went crazy. If you bought a 447 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 4: refreshed model, why that means that you actually made the 448 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 4: decision to buy the vehicle, even knowing what Musk has 449 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 4: done politically. So it just has not been this huge 450 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 4: boost to sales that people were hoping for. 451 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: Okay, on sales, one last question there we of course, 452 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: through the winter in the early spring, we just saw 453 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 2: some absolutely brutal numbers, especially out of Europe, like in 454 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: some countries year over year down sixty down seventy percent, 455 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: just mind boggling number. As bad as this second quarter 456 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: is now apparently shaping up. Any signs though, that there's 457 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 2: at least a bottoming out of that collapse in sales. 458 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 4: I don't know, frankly how bad it can get. I mean, like, 459 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 4: what is Tesla doing to woo back the customers that 460 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 4: it lost in you know, blue states like California. I 461 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 4: don't know if they're doing anything. I mean, I have 462 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 4: not seen a big robust effort to kind of turn 463 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 4: that around. And you know, Musk on the last earnings 464 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 4: call was sort of like, oh, you know, they're seeing 465 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 4: like a bump in sales and Red States. That's like 466 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 4: a trend line that I'm curious to see how much 467 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 4: it pans out. But there's widespread economic uncertainty right now 468 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 4: in the United States. Interest rates are still very high. 469 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 4: There's a lot of questions about everything, and so cars 470 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 4: are a really big purchase. I mean, I think you're 471 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 4: seeing sort of softening in the auto market in general. 472 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 2: Well, I think if there was any bump in Tesla 473 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: sales in Red States that is probably disappearing pretty quickly. 474 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: You keep fighting and with with Trump, and you're gonna 475 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: you're gonna put a bullet into into any kind of 476 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: momentum you may have had there. Dan As, We'll let 477 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: you go. I'll just say it's funny because of course 478 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: Musk does love to point investors at how they should 479 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: forget about the cars and forget about you know, the 480 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: Y and the X and the three and all that. 481 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: It's all we're an AI company, and we're optimists, and 482 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 2: we're the robotax and all that and all that's fantastic, 483 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 2: but man, in the meantime, before you get to that vision, 484 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 2: you have to move some metal here, right, yeah. 485 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 4: Because I mean that's their revenue is still largely selling cars. 486 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 4: But you know, in the future, I mean, as Musk 487 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 4: has said many times, like owning a car is going 488 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 4: to be like riding a horse, David, I mean the 489 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 4: future that like Elon sees this pivot to you know, 490 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 4: driving as a service and a luxury. And like I 491 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 4: have to remember, like Tesla you said, talk about how 492 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 4: they were gonna build twenty million cars a year by 493 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 4: twenty thirty. They've completely backed off from that claim, Like 494 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 4: they are not in the business of really building that 495 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 4: many cars anymore. And so I think you're just going 496 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 4: to see a lot of Domino's search of all, there's 497 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 4: going to be an overcapacity problem, and you know, they 498 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 4: might only sell like a million and a half units 499 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 4: this year. That's like a far cry from the twenty 500 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 4: million that they once talked about. 501 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: All right, Dan, we will see how those numbers come 502 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 2: out tomorrow and we will see you next week. Sounds good, Okay. 503 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 2: I'm now joined by our kawdido in Latin America Executive 504 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 2: editor for the region, Creighton Harrison Creighton, Hello, Hello, Hi, 505 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: good Vida, and it's terrific having you now create. The 506 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: last segment of the show is often a feud. 507 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 5: We do feud. 508 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: Watch Max, who's not here this week, Max chaff and 509 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 2: he loves to bring all these feud ideas, and this 510 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 2: one seems to be low key, low simmering, certainly not 511 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 2: at the level of Trump v. Musk, but interesting nonetheless. 512 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 2: Started last week down there in Mexico City. Tell us 513 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: about it. 514 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, So there was a rocket that blew up. 515 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 3: I think you guys have talked about that. I think 516 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 3: it was Starship thirty six. Is that the right number. 517 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 2: There's been a lot of it seems like I think 518 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: the fourth explosion in short order, I believe. 519 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. 520 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 3: And when this one happened, there was some debris that 521 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 3: was discovered shortly after in the state of Tunnel Epas 522 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 3: right across the border from Starbase, like literally, you know what, 523 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 3: I think, like a ten minute drive from starbas to 524 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 3: get across the border in New Mexico. And there were 525 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 3: some environmentalists who started raising again the question of what 526 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 3: to do with the debris that was falling from these 527 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 3: rocket launches, because they have discovered what trash that they 528 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: have attributed to the rocket launches in the past, including 529 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 3: in the path of the sea turtles that they release. 530 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 2: So Mexican President Claudia Scheinbaum brings this up last week 531 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 2: in one of her weekly daily news conferences and says 532 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: what exactly. 533 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 3: So she didn't bring it up, but she was prepared 534 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 3: for an answer. A reporter asked about the space debris 535 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 3: from SpaceX, and what President Shambam said was, we are 536 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 3: looking into these launches, and we're looking into what laws 537 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 3: may have been violated, right, and then we will take 538 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 3: action to sort of the word she used would sort 539 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 3: of imply legal action as we see fit at the 540 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 3: conclusion of our investigation. 541 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 2: To which SpaceX says. 542 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 5: What so. 543 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 3: SpaceX says a day later on Twitter on their official account, says, 544 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 3: we are, of course interested in talking to the Mexican 545 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 3: government about any debris that may have fallen in their territory. 546 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 3: We are trying to cooperate with them. It would be 547 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 3: really helpful if they could give us that debris back 548 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: because that's our property. 549 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: So your sense, though, is watch this space. More to 550 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: come from Cloudia Scheinbaum in the Mexican government in Shinbaum, 551 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 2: assuming this does continue to build into something, which of 552 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: course we don't know that to be the case, but 553 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: if it were to what kind of opponent does Elon 554 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: have here in the Mexican. 555 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 3: President Well, President Shameebum has obviously had sort of gotten 556 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 3: a reputation in the early she's relatively knew in her 557 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 3: presidency she was just elected last year, but of course 558 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 3: early in the Trump presidency as well as a relatively 559 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: smart negotiator with Trump, she has you know, been able 560 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 3: to sort of keep him at bay at times when 561 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: he has started threatening various actions against Mexico. 562 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: So Jesus, so Cretin. Maybe Musk needs to take some 563 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 2: advice from her and how to handle Trump. 564 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's something to that, but I bring 565 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 3: Trump up because at the end of the day, with 566 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 3: you know, according to some we have a great reporter 567 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 3: on this, Amy still Man, with some of the legal 568 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: experts that she's talked to this if there's legal action 569 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 3: that's going to be against the US, not against SpaceX right, 570 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 3: and that's because of the way that's because of the 571 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 3: way international space law works. There are three d's over 572 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 3: this sort of thing, and it's pretty unambiguous in international 573 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 3: space law that if your junk drops in someone else's country, 574 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: you are responsible for it and for any damage it causes. 575 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: The only question around this is whether it's going to 576 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 3: be legally treated as space debris because this rocket was 577 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 3: not going to space. It was actually inter orbit, right, 578 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: I mean, or inter official space. That is going to 579 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 3: be a legal question that I'm sure Claudia Shane Baum's 580 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 3: crack legal team is going over right now. But at 581 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 3: the end of the day, these tend to when we 582 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: talk about international space law, these tend to be country 583 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: to country and not country to company. Now, you know, again, 584 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 3: we can't rule out that they'll do something else that 585 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: I'm sure they have very creative way or to looking 586 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 3: at every lid of this. But Musk may end up 587 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: being in the middle of yet another point of contention 588 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 3: between the US and Mexico. 589 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be pretty pretty ironic if it ultimately 590 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 2: wound up being the three of them some way, somehow quarreling. 591 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: All right, mister Harrison, thank you so much. 592 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 3: Good to talk to you. 593 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong and edited by 594 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: Annamasi Rakas. Blake Maple's handles Engineering and Dave Purcell fact checks. 595 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: Our supervising producers Magnus henricson. The Elon Inc. Theme is 596 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Brendan 597 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is 598 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always 599 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: to our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadopoulos. 600 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 601 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.