1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

2
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

3
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119
Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

4
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

5
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

6
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 2: Clearly, this is not a market that's too concerned about

7
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 2: a government shutdown, at least not yet. It's not an

8
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 2: economic event unless it goes on for a bit longer,

9
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,239
Speaker 2: although the missing jobs report on Friday will leave a

10
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 2: huge question mark hanging over the Friday trade as we

11
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,520
Speaker 2: make our way forward here, it's day one. They're voting again,

12
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 2: as we mentioned on the two CRS today in the Senate,

13
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 2: with everybody asking the same question, why don't we let

14
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 2: the Republican leader in the Senate take it from here?

15
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 3: Everybody's now asking the question how does this end? Well,

16
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 3: it ends when the Senate Democrats pick this bill up

17
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,840
Speaker 3: passed by the House of Representatives and.

18
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 4: Vote for it.

19
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 3: It's on the floor of the Senate. We're going to

20
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 3: vote later this morning on this twenty four pages.

21
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,080
Speaker 2: This is where we start our conversation on Capitol Hill.

22
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,039
Speaker 2: Bloomberg governments. Jack Fitzpatrick is standing by our appropriations. Expert Jack,

23
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,039
Speaker 2: what is the answer to that question? How long could

24
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 2: this go?

25
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,959
Speaker 5: This will be a test of members patients with their leadership,

26
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 5: and how long rank and file members, especially in the Senate,

27
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 5: just want to leave all the power in the hands

28
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 5: of John Thune, of the Speaker of the House, of

29
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,760
Speaker 5: the President of the United States. Right now, there are

30
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 5: not significant back channels. There's not a gang forming of

31
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 5: centrist members who want to take the reins and say

32
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 5: put me in charge. I'm going to find an alternate

33
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,000
Speaker 5: path forward. But that is one of the significant X

34
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 5: factors here. I spoke to Jean Shaheen, a more moderate

35
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 5: Democrat from New Hampshire, who said, there are member to

36
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 5: member conversations on the Affordable Care Acts subsidies. There are

37
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 5: conversations happening, but right now, largely this is all being

38
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 5: left to the principles, the big four congressional leaders and

39
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 5: the President. And there's enough patience from senators to see

40
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,640
Speaker 5: if one side breaks, to allow their leaders to try

41
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,520
Speaker 5: to negotiate and use pressure tactics, so that right now

42
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,639
Speaker 5: there's not a lot of movement. There's not an alternate

43
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 5: path coming forward. It's the Republicans seeing if the Democrats

44
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 5: will break, and the Democrats seeing if the Republicans will break.

45
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,959
Speaker 6: Jack, can you just set up the rest of today

46
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 6: for us? What is on the docket when it comes

47
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,079
Speaker 6: to procedure in the Upper Chamber Right now, not.

48
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,520
Speaker 5: Much as left. They just did their two votes that

49
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,520
Speaker 5: we saw coming. This is the third failed vote on

50
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 5: both the Democratic proposal to fund the government and the

51
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 5: Republican proposal to fund the government. The Democratic one failed

52
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,360
Speaker 5: along party lines. The Republican proposal was the same as

53
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 5: last night. It was fifty five to forty five, short

54
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 5: of the sixty votes necessary. You got three Democrats who

55
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 5: signed on. So we're still watching those three Democrats, Fetterman, Cortes, Masto,

56
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,080
Speaker 5: and King the Independent who causes with the Democrats. That

57
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,400
Speaker 5: shows there's no movement, and so it is going to

58
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,839
Speaker 5: be a test of patients and a test of willpower

59
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 5: because nobody broke and we've now had three votes on

60
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 5: the same exec proposals that haven't gotten to that sixty

61
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 5: vote threshold.

62
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 4: After that, they're set to leave town for Yam Kapor.

63
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 5: They could announce emergency votes if necessary, but there's not

64
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 5: a lot going on and there's not even real negotiating

65
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 5: happening today.

66
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 6: All right, Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick. We thank you as

67
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 6: always for your reporting and insight life for us from

68
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 6: Capitol Hill, and we mentioned this at the top of

69
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 6: the show. We are hearing from both sides of the

70
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 6: aisle congressional leadership on the messaging around the shutdown. We

71
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,880
Speaker 6: did hear from Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer earlier today

72
00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 6: giving this message to his members.

73
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 7: He is using the American people as pawns, threatening pain

74
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 7: on the country as black man. Well, that's not going

75
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 7: to work. The American people. It's so easy to see

76
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 7: through those tactics. They know this is the Trump shutdown.

77
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 7: They know Republicans control the Presidency, the Senate, and the House,

78
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,160
Speaker 7: and what is done during a shutdown will fall squarely

79
00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 7: on the Republicans.

80
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 6: Back to dive into the politics and the policy, we're

81
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,679
Speaker 6: joined now by Republican Senator Ted Budd of North Carolina. Senator,

82
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 6: thanks so much for joining Bloomberg. Let's just start with

83
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 6: the latest. What are you hearing behind closed doors about

84
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 6: where this shutdown is heading? Is there any sort of

85
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,840
Speaker 6: development that you can give us when it comes to

86
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 6: the negotiations, there's.

87
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 8: Really no clear over under on this. Is there going

88
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 8: to be short, is it going to be long. It's

89
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,839
Speaker 8: really up to Chuck Schumer. He's the one that needs

90
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 8: to negotiate with himself, maybe negotiate with AOC, because it

91
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,160
Speaker 8: really seems that it's New York City and New York

92
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,760
Speaker 8: State politics that are playing out on a national stage

93
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,280
Speaker 8: right now. Chuck Schumer isn't concerned about America. He's not

94
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,040
Speaker 8: concerned about government employees, he's not really concerned about the

95
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 8: rest of our country. He's only concerned about having a

96
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:17,000
Speaker 8: primary for US Senator from AOC. So he has to

97
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,560
Speaker 8: show his radical base that he's actually fighting. What he

98
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 8: really wants to do is spend one point five trillion

99
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 8: dollars more. He wants to give health care to illegals,

100
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 8: he wants to undo the working family's tax cut, he

101
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 8: wants to hurt rural hospitals, and he wants to continue

102
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 8: these COVID handouts. That's what he's trying to do, and

103
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 8: it's really just about appeasing his radical base.

104
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,000
Speaker 2: I just want to understand if you can explain to

105
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 2: us the idea of giving healthcare to illegals. Isn't it

106
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,520
Speaker 2: impossible for an undocumented citizen to be eligible for healthy.

107
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 8: The way they were thank you for asking, the way

108
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,560
Speaker 8: they were enrolled, it actually would lead to them, through

109
00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 8: other avenues, being into these entitlement programs. Would we send

110
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 8: a check directly, No, but where they enrolled through other measures. Absolutely,

111
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,279
Speaker 8: And those that were here legally, of course, and those

112
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 8: that were citizens. Sometimes it was couples up to making

113
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 8: up to a half million dollars for getting these subsidies.

114
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 8: So do we need to fix these reforms or have

115
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 8: some reforms in regards to these subsidies. Yes, there are

116
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 8: some people that actually need them. There's some contractors, some

117
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 8: blue collar folks that were on ten ninety nine's and

118
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 8: they need to have them. But we need to reform them.

119
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,719
Speaker 8: We don't want to throw them out. We want to say,

120
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 8: let's have the discussion. But this is completely nonsensical what

121
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 8: Chuck Schumer's doing.

122
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 4: He's saying, you have to do this right now.

123
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 8: We're going to shut the government down. As a matter

124
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,840
Speaker 8: of fact, he did it at midnight last night. This

125
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 8: is a December discussion. This is not a late September

126
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 8: or an early October discussion.

127
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 4: This is something we can keep working on.

128
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,599
Speaker 8: You can shut the government down and have a discussion,

129
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 8: which he did, which is very expensive and he's been opposed.

130
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 4: To it up till now. Or you can keep it

131
00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 4: over les have this saying about that.

132
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,320
Speaker 2: I was in the Senate in that same spot you're

133
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 2: standing and talking with a number of your colleagues, Schmid,

134
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 2: Marshall and others.

135
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,360
Speaker 4: Last evening, Tom Cole joined us.

136
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 2: And the idea here about where we're going has just

137
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 2: raised a whole bunch of questions. Chuck Schumer was talking

138
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 2: about this earlier today on the Senate floor when we

139
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 2: saw Look, I've heard lots.

140
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,240
Speaker 4: Of comments from him. Well, I was standing this question. Senator.

141
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 2: We'll put Chuck Schumer aside for a moment. You're saying

142
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 2: that extending the Obamacare subsidies as a matter for the

143
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 2: end of the year. But a number of Democrats who've

144
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 2: joined us, Chris Koons last evening said notices are going

145
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 2: out and open enrollment is about to begin, that healthcare

146
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 2: premiums actually start rising today.

147
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 4: Are they wrong? I think they're wrong in their timing.

148
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 8: This is something we need to discuss, but you don't

149
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,960
Speaker 8: do it in an emergency fashion like this. The reason

150
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,679
Speaker 8: that you do a stop gap continuing resolution or CR

151
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 8: is so that you can have these conversations and let

152
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 8: the Appropriations Committee, with people that are are elected to

153
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 8: do so and are put on these committees to do so,

154
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,120
Speaker 8: can work out the budgets in a reasonable means. That's

155
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 8: the regular order that we talk about here, and that's

156
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 8: what we need to do. This is right now, this argument,

157
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,520
Speaker 8: this shutdown, it's very expensive. It doesn't make any sense.

158
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 8: It backs Chuck Schumer further into a corner. I think

159
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 8: it only gets worse for him, not better. We're the

160
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 8: reasonable ones here. Donald Trump is reasonable, but it's completely

161
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,840
Speaker 8: just trying to appease Chuck Schumer's radical base is all

162
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 8: he's doing, and showing that he's having a fight so

163
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 8: he doesn't have a primary from aoc.

164
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 4: Well senator.

165
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 6: You're saying that shutdowns are expensive, So i'd love your

166
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,920
Speaker 6: take on the White House's threat when it comes to

167
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 6: permanent layoffs. It's our understanding that the O and B

168
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 6: Director Russ Vote will be speaking to your colleagues on

169
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 6: the House side today about that potential. We should say

170
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 6: at this point, it doesn't appear that agencies have laid

171
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 6: out that plan. But do you agree with this as

172
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 6: a negotiating tactic.

173
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 8: I don't think it's about a negotiating tactic. But if

174
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,920
Speaker 8: Chuck Schumer is going to hand this card to the

175
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,520
Speaker 8: White House, which wants to be physically fiscally responsible, I mean,

176
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 8: that's one of the reasons that President Trump was elected

177
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 8: is to get the fiscal House of America back in order.

178
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,079
Speaker 8: And there are a lot of people that are needed

179
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 8: in the private sector. There's a lot of talent that

180
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 8: work for the US government that may be better serving

181
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 8: our economy working in the private sector and not at

182
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,800
Speaker 8: the behest of American taxpayers. And if it's chance for

183
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 8: Russ Vote to write the ship on that, then so

184
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 8: be it. Yeah, I mean, it's not about being me,

185
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 8: and it's about being fiscally responsible for American taxpayers.

186
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,679
Speaker 2: Well, what do you think he can do here if

187
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 2: the government shut down. He's got the keys to the Kingdom. Senator,

188
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 2: how many workers do you think Russ Vote can cut?

189
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:38,880
Speaker 8: Look, I don't know. He's going to look at this,

190
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 8: and you have to keep the funk. I think people

191
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,600
Speaker 8: want the American government to work, they want it to open,

192
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 8: they want it to be responsible.

193
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,079
Speaker 4: They don't want it to be front and center.

194
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,559
Speaker 8: I mean, people want to go home, they want to

195
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 8: talk about their lives, they want to live their lives,

196
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 8: and you just need the American government to work. And

197
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 8: Chuck Schimmer has thrown it into dysfunction. He's overspending, he's

198
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 8: trying to add one point five trillion dollars, much of

199
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,440
Speaker 8: that for illegals, and I think Americans think that's ridiculous. Look,

200
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,360
Speaker 8: if somebody is not essential right now, then they don't

201
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 8: need to be working for the American government. And I

202
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:09,959
Speaker 8: think that's what Russ Bot's going to look at and

203
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 8: he's going to.

204
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:10,960
Speaker 4: Do the right thing.

205
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,640
Speaker 6: Senator, I do want to ask you about another policy

206
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 6: that has really come to the forefront this week, and

207
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 6: that's President Trump's policies regarding tariffs. We saw him renew

208
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 6: tariffs when it comes to the furniture industry, in particular,

209
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,360
Speaker 6: in his post announcing on it on truth Social he

210
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,920
Speaker 6: highlighted your state of North Carolina. Now we've seen some

211
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,840
Speaker 6: mixed reviews from domestic industry. I'm wondering where you stand

212
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 6: on this policy and what you're hearing from domestic furniture

213
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,080
Speaker 6: makers about this more protectionist view.

214
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 8: Well, President Trump and I have the same goal, and

215
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,680
Speaker 8: that is to reindustrialize the United States. So I think

216
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 8: that is what he's for. He wants more manufacturing to

217
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,559
Speaker 8: be done here. You know, we've seen some post NAFTA

218
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 8: revitalization of the North Carolina furniture industry, but it's still

219
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 8: not where it was pre NAFTA. So we want more

220
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 8: industry to come back here. I'm not traditionally a fan

221
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 8: of tariffs, but I am a fan of what Donald

222
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,440
Speaker 8: Trump's trying to do, and that is level the playing

223
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 8: field against countries that have cheated US and have taken

224
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 8: our workforce away and have hurt American employment and have

225
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 8: hurt our industries over the last twenty or thirty years.

226
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 8: So I think he's trying to write the ship and

227
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 8: attract these countries to reinvest in these companies, to reinvest

228
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,200
Speaker 8: in North Carolina and the other great states in our country.

229
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,480
Speaker 8: And it's starting to happen. I wish it would have

230
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 8: happened yesterday. I wish it would have happened years ago.

231
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 8: I wish we would have never had the disjointed economic

232
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 8: effect that NAFTA did on North Carolina.

233
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 4: But those decisions are behind us.

234
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 8: Now let's get America back on track, especially our economy.

235
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 2: Really glad you could join us, Senator, and what's happening

236
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 2: in North Carolina is important to us, so we'd love

237
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,679
Speaker 2: to have you back. Senator's head by the Republican from

238
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 2: North Carolina, making his debut on Bloomberg TV and Radio

239
00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 2: in the throes of a government shutdown.

240
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 4: Thank you for joining us here on the Wednesday edition.

241
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 2: We're not even twenty four hours into this shutdown, and

242
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 2: we have a lot of questions still about what took

243
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 2: place last evening. Already again today, we've seen the two

244
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 2: continuing resolutions, Republican and Democratic versions, fail and there is

245
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,600
Speaker 2: no one talking and there appear to be no off

246
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:17,679
Speaker 2: ramps at the moment.

247
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 4: You just heard the Republican take on this.

248
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,840
Speaker 2: Let's hear from a Democrat in Glenn Ivy, the Congressman

249
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 2: from Maryland is with us in studio here in Washington.

250
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 2: Welcoming you Backsirt. It's good to see you. You've been

251
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,559
Speaker 2: through a couple of these, but I have to admit,

252
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,440
Speaker 2: I know everyone says this time is different, and it

253
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,960
Speaker 2: kind of feels a little different this time. With russ

254
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 2: vote circling over the Capitol.

255
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 9: Well, I think the big differences are sort of twofold.

256
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 9: One is the threat that the president made to punitively

257
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,559
Speaker 9: terminate government employees, which is illegal, as a lot of

258
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 9: them to a state previous segment, and there's a lawsuit

259
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 9: about that. The second, though, is I think the widespread pushback.

260
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 9: So the Trump shut down in twenty eighteen was about

261
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 9: building the wall. Most Americans really didn't care one way

262
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 9: or the other about that. When they get these notices

263
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 9: in their mailbox that their premiums about the double for

264
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 9: the healthcare insurance, they're going to care about that.

265
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 4: And they won't care.

266
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,080
Speaker 10: What spin is from Washington.

267
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 9: They won't care what the process was, they won't care

268
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 9: what Chuck Schumer said or whoever. They'll want to find

269
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,319
Speaker 9: out how to get their premiums back down.

270
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 10: And I mean yesterday, and that's when this is going

271
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,320
Speaker 10: to move.

272
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 9: That'll light a fire under the Republicans to get something

273
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 9: done on that front.

274
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 6: Just on the first point about potential layoffs, you represent

275
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,319
Speaker 6: a district that has a lot of federal workers. Are

276
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 6: you hearing concerns from constituents leading up to this and

277
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 6: now that the shutdown has actually started.

278
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 9: Well, I started hearing concerns from my constituents from January twentieth,

279
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,840
Speaker 9: because that's as soon as Donald Trump hit the door,

280
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 9: he started firing government employees, and he couldn't do it

281
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 9: as he couldn't do it fast enough for his taste.

282
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 9: And we filed multiple lawsuits democracy forward in the unions

283
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 9: to show that to slow that down and address it,

284
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 9: make sure people were getting fair treatment. But you know,

285
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,680
Speaker 9: now they've hit the saturation.

286
00:13:59,240 --> 00:13:59,839
Speaker 10: Point for sure.

287
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 9: There actually starting to bring some people back that they'd

288
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 9: forced out previously because they need enough people to do

289
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,120
Speaker 9: the services. And there's some services that are like clinical

290
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 9: trials for Alzheimer's research that I just thought it was

291
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 9: crazy that they shut that down. It's indefensible, frankly. So

292
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 9: I think they're going to turn the corner on that,

293
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 9: hopefully based on the pushback they're getting from where they're

294
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 9: in their own party and from the American people, and

295
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,800
Speaker 9: I think that's going to make it hard for them

296
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 9: to follow up on this threat that they made, which

297
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 9: you never know what those guys you really can't tell.

298
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 2: Republicans remind us that these are COVID era Obamacare subsidies,

299
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 2: and many ask why they should still be around since

300
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 2: the pandemic is not. What's the real answer on this?

301
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,240
Speaker 2: Should there be a permanent extension? Does it imply that

302
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,560
Speaker 2: Obamacare is not working as designed? Or should there be

303
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 2: new rules no guardrails about how this works.

304
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 9: I think there should be a permanent extension. They didn't

305
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 9: have any trouble doing a permanent extension for their twenty

306
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 9: seven tax cuts for the people that, you know, the

307
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 9: billionaires and the really wealthy people that benefit from it.

308
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 9: Why can't they do a permanent extension that helps regular

309
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 9: Americans maintain healthcare? You know, Donald Trump and many of

310
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,800
Speaker 9: these Republicans have been out to get Obamacare for fifteen

311
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 9: years now, and they found that they couldn't do it

312
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,680
Speaker 9: after the first two years because once people got it

313
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 9: and realized how valuable it wasn't critical to their healthcare coverage,

314
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 9: it became bulletproof. This is a kind of a trojan

315
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 9: horse approach to taking it down. You could have millions

316
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 9: of people that lose their coverage based on what they're

317
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,120
Speaker 9: doing here, and they really aren't giving in a good

318
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 9: explanation for why they won't do it.

319
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 6: Just for clarity, would you support a commitment to negotiations

320
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 6: down the road or do you want to see pen

321
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 6: and paper pen put to paper before the government is reopened.

322
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 9: When it comes to this, two problems with down the road.

323
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 9: One is, we've been negotiating this for months now. For example,

324
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 9: the one trillion dollars in Medicaid tax cuts that was

325
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 9: an HR one. Democrats fought against that, Almost all of

326
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 9: us voted against it in the House. They passed it

327
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 9: anyway on a party line vote. On the subsidy extensions.

328
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 9: I'm one of the Appropriations Committee. We tried multiple times

329
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 9: to put an amendments on the appropriations bills that would

330
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 9: have given the extension.

331
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 10: At that point.

332
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 9: They voted them down every time by a unanimous party

333
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 9: line vote by the Republicans. So they can't say we

334
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 9: need seven more weeks to figure this out, because we've

335
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,160
Speaker 9: had seven months to be working on this and have been.

336
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 9: So I said, this is they've been voting to kill

337
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 9: it over and over again. Why should we assume that

338
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 9: they're changing their minds now? Why should we credit that statement?

339
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 9: And of course Donald Trump has been totally erradic and

340
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 9: unreliable on commitments that have been made one way or

341
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 9: the other. So yeah, I'd like to see it in writing.

342
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 9: Matter of fact, i'd like to see it get done

343
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 9: now as part of reopening the government.

344
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 10: We can do both at once.

345
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 9: They really haven't given a good explanation as to like

346
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 9: it's part regular order and all this regular order didn't work.

347
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 9: So now we're trying this now to make sure the

348
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 9: American people. I think there's fifteen to sixteen million of

349
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 9: them that could lose their coverage.

350
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 10: We want to make sure they get their coverage.

351
00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 4: So we all remember, of.

352
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 2: Course, is shutdown and twenty thirteen that was surrounding Obamacare.

353
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 2: We've been going around the block on this for a

354
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 2: while here. I'm curious to hear from you what happens

355
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,879
Speaker 2: in a congressional office when the government closes. You had

356
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 2: to probably meet with your staff at least the last

357
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,199
Speaker 2: time you were in a room to let them know

358
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 2: they were not going to be getting paid. Starting today,

359
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 2: Does the office close?

360
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:21,120
Speaker 4: What happens?

361
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 6: No?

362
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,159
Speaker 9: We keep going. In fact, we've got a call tonight.

363
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 9: It's a town hall webinar where people who are you know,

364
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,239
Speaker 9: facing these issues, the layoffs and the like and have

365
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 9: questions can call in IVY dot House dot gov, or

366
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,880
Speaker 9: not call in, but tune in it's a webinar streaming

367
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 9: to try and get information. Other congressional officers are doing

368
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 9: similar types of things. Obviously, we're going to keep working

369
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,160
Speaker 9: in the community to try and help with with people

370
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 9: trying to figure out how.

371
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:48,199
Speaker 10: To get this.

372
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 2: Is that a motivator when lawmakers see that the staff

373
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 2: isn't buying lunch or coming to work or getting a

374
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 2: second job.

375
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 4: I mean, that's real, isn't it.

376
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 10: Yeah.

377
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 9: I'm a former staffer, so I know you know how

378
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 9: hard it can be on them. I'm also a former

379
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,640
Speaker 9: federal gunm employee of the Department of Justice, for example,

380
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 9: so I know the impacts can be really tough on folks.

381
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 9: Most folks need their pay they need their income to

382
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 9: stay steady. They're living paycheck to paycheck, so it's tough

383
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 9: on them. But at least in my district so far,

384
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 9: people seem to understand the importance of this moment, the

385
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 9: need to make sure that healthcare gets extended because many

386
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 9: of them, yes, their government employees, but that you know,

387
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 9: Grandma's in a nursing home based on them getting the

388
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 9: payments through Medicaid. They understand the fallout of what could

389
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 9: happen here.

390
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 6: We are talking about the fiscal impacts, and I'm wondering

391
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 6: what you make of Republicans recent argument that the Democratic

392
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 6: backed plan could add one point five trillion to the

393
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 6: national debt over the next decade. That's according to an

394
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 6: estimate from the Committee for Responsible Federal Budget.

395
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 9: It's kind of laughable because the tax cuts that they

396
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 9: put in place in HR one is like between four

397
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 9: and five trillion dollars. So, you know, I hear them

398
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 9: start complaining about the deficit again, and I'm like, where

399
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 9: were you when you pass this thing unanimously essentially, So

400
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 9: here's the issue. They're trying to do a lot for

401
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 9: the billionaire buddies, can they do something for the American people,

402
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 9: regular folks in the working class. They're not trying to

403
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 9: ask for a whole lot of handouts or anything, but

404
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 9: they do want to have Just give them the chance

405
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 9: to extend their healthcare coverage with the subdi subsidies that.

406
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,400
Speaker 10: They've been given and come to rely on.

407
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 9: Give them a chance to continue to get the Medicaid

408
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 9: funding that they need for you know, elderly and the

409
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 9: disabled and children who are poor and the like. Why

410
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 9: are we cutting that stuff to give like, you know,

411
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,479
Speaker 9: tax cuts for people who really don't need the money,

412
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 9: and many of them aren't even asking for it. It's

413
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 9: inexplicable to me and indefensible.

414
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 2: Frankly, I don't know how much time you spent on

415
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 2: truth social but I don't. You might have seen the

416
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 2: videos the President's been posting about your leader in the House,

417
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 2: Hakim Jeffreys. There was one a couple of days ago.

418
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 2: He was standing side by side Chuck Schumer. It's an

419
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 2: AI generated deep fake where Chuck Schumer is saying offensive

420
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 2: things about undocumented immigrants and the Democratic leader in the

421
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: House is put in some sort of Mariachi outfit and

422
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 2: what was deemed a sure to offend racial depiction of Jeffries,

423
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 2: and he did it again last night. Yeah, I mean,

424
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 2: what does that tell you about the willingness to compromise.

425
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 10: I mean, it tells me more than that.

426
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 9: I mean, you start kind of wondering if the guy's

427
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 9: really stable or not. I mean, it just doesn't make

428
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,159
Speaker 9: a lot of sense. The performance in front of the

429
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 9: generals and admirals yesterday was unsettling too, to say the least.

430
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 9: And there's been this whole string of that with this

431
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 9: guy since he got back into the White House. I mean,

432
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,360
Speaker 9: if Joe Biden had been doing stuff like this, you know,

433
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 9: you'd have to peel people.

434
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 4: Off the wall.

435
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 9: So oh, he's lost it. You know, let's you know,

436
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 9: measure Trump by the same yardstick.

437
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: It's good to have you back, good to be Maybe

438
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 2: when things reopen we'll talk again, unless this goes on

439
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,479
Speaker 2: for a while. Congressman Glenn I, Democrat from Maryland, apparently

440
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 2: I'll have some free time. That sounds like it. Thank

441
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 2: you for being here for all the wrong reasons. But

442
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: we'll keep in touch on this one. Stay with us

443
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 2: on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up

444
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 2: after this.

445
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

446
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

447
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You

448
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

449
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

450
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 4: We're glad you joined us here.

451
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 2: On the Wednesday edition, I'm Joe Matthew alongside Tyler Kendall

452
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: in Washington. We're going to have a conversation straight ahead

453
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: with Congresswoman Lisa McLain important as she is chair of

454
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 2: the House Republican Conference and will bring us inside the

455
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 2: negotiations or a lack thereof at the moment. We spoke

456
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: as well today with Larry Summers, my colleague David Weston

457
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg World headquarters in New York, speaking with the

458
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: former Treasury secretary about this government shutdown.

459
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 4: Here's what Summer said.

460
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 11: This is about whether we should be scaling back the

461
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 11: availability of health insurance for millions of Americans who in

462
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 11: the old system used to not have eligibility for coverage

463
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 11: and in the new system do have eligibility for coverage.

464
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 11: People should make their choice about what they think. I

465
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 11: suspect that that will become clearer in the days, perhaps

466
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 11: the weeks ahead, and we will see how it all

467
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 11: plays out. But people shouldn't be distracted by the budget

468
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 11: resolutions and the super majorities and the sixty votes in

469
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 11: the Senate and the appropriations process or any of that.

470
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 11: This is a stark question. The government can re open

471
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 11: tomorrow if the President of the United States is prepared

472
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 11: to accept the maintenance of Medicaid benefits, is prepared to

473
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 11: accept the continuing functioning of the exchanges that have brought

474
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 11: health insurance to millions of Americans, most of whom are

475
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 11: employed by small businesses who can't really manage to provide

476
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 11: health insurance to all their workers.

477
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 2: That's the take from Larry Summers earlier today on Bloomberg.

478
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: And it's a pleasure to welcome back Congresswoman Lisa McLain.

479
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: She's live on Capitol Hill, chair of the House Republican

480
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 2: Conference representing the ninth districts of Michigan.

481
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 4: Congresswoman, it's good to see you, welcome back.

482
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: And I guess I should say happy shutdown today, or

483
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 2: there's probably not much happy about it considering what's going

484
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 2: on here. I know that this is a Senate matter

485
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 2: right now, and they're going to keep voting on the

486
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: continuing resolutions that we have seen. But I guess the

487
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: big question uestion today is how long this might last.

488
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: What are you hearing behind the scenes?

489
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 4: You know, I can.

490
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 12: Share with you from the Republican standpoint, we hope it

491
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 12: doesn't last very long because we don't want the American

492
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 12: people to feel the pain from the Democratic shutdown. So

493
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 12: I really don't have a sense of that because it's

494
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 12: not in our hands, it's in the Democrats' hands right now.

495
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 6: Congressman r understanding is the O and B Director Russ

496
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 6: Vote was set to speak to your conference today. Can

497
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 6: you confirm has that call already happened and what was discussed,

498
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 6: including the future of potential permanent layoffs.

499
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

500
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 12: I left the call early to come to the interview,

501
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 12: so we did have the call, and he was explaining

502
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 12: kind of the process on how things work if this

503
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 12: government shut down continues. He's stressed again that he hopes

504
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 12: that it doesn't continue, that the President and the administration

505
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 12: don't have to make the tough calls. But at the

506
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 12: end of the day, there's only so much money to

507
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 12: go around, and it is, you know, Russ, mister Volks's job,

508
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 12: as well as the administration's job to figure out who

509
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 12: is essential and how to continue the programs that are essential.

510
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 12: But he wanted to stress again that this can all

511
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 12: be avoided if the Democrats come to the table like

512
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 12: they have under Chuck Schumer thirteen times before, and vote

513
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 12: for the exact same cr that they voted for in March.

514
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: We'd spoke earlier this hour Congresswoman with Senator Ted Budd,

515
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 2: the Republican from North Carolina, who made the point that

516
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: if employees, federal employees are deemed non essential at this time,

517
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: then maybe they shouldn't be working for the government to

518
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: begin with. Should those seven hundred and fifty thousand furloughs

519
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: today be layoffs?

520
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 12: You know, I think it's a really hard question really

521
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 12: to answer. And I say that because I think if

522
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 12: that happens, and again I I hope it doesn't happen.

523
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 12: As a Republican, I hope it doesn't happen. But we

524
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 12: know that that the government is bloated, right I think

525
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 12: if this does happen, it's going to uncover a lot

526
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 12: of what's going on in terms of who is essential

527
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 12: and who really isn't essential. If I'm a furloughed employee

528
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 12: right now, I don't know that i'd really want to

529
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 12: have the government shut down right.

530
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 6: Now, And a congressman, I do want to keep with

531
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 6: the labor market. Pull on your expertise or perch on

532
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 6: house fin services, because our understanding is the BLS isn't

533
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 6: going to release the Jobs Report to this Friday, of course,

534
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 6: considered to be one of the leading indicators of the

535
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 6: health of the labor market. Are there any discussions when

536
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 6: you are hearing from the omb about what is essential

537
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 6: and what is not. The data collection could actually fall

538
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 6: into that bucket if this shutdown continues.

539
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, you're right, everything is on the table and it's

540
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 12: a really tough job to be in with that. Russ

541
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 12: has to do is how do we make good decisions?

542
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 7: Right?

543
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 12: Data is always important in making decisions. So again, I

544
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 12: don't really understand why the Democrats want this shut down

545
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 12: to put more and more power in the administrative administration's hands.

546
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 4: Right.

547
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 12: They've railed against the administration, in my opinion, unrightly so

548
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 12: for doing what the American people elected them to do,

549
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 12: and that is be fiscally responsible. They right now are

550
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 12: ceding all of the power to the administration. I don't

551
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,239
Speaker 12: understand it. It doesn't make sense to me. But you know,

552
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 12: as Republicans, we want to open the government. We want

553
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 12: to get back to business, to doing our business. I

554
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 12: would add this, as Republicans, we've passed all twelve appropriation

555
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 12: bills out of committee. We are getting back to how

556
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 12: business is supposed to be done in DC. Right, that's

557
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 12: what the people want. They want something different. They don't

558
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 12: want this big omnibus, right, they want us to go

559
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 12: through the appropriations process. That's what we're doing right now.

560
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 12: But it's really tough to do that when the government's

561
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 12: shut down.

562
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: Commerce Woman, would you be willing to promise your Democratic

563
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: colleagues to have an actual negotiation and debate over the

564
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: extension of Obamacare subsidies if the government is reopened or

565
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: has that overture already been made.

566
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 12: No, we have to have that discussion. We have to

567
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 12: have that negotiation, We have to have that debate, right

568
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 12: and that's what we're willing to do. But the issue is,

569
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 12: we have a funding issue right now. This isn't a

570
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 12: healthcare issue. It's not an agriculture issue, it's not a

571
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 12: transportation and infrastructure or issue. It is a funding issue.

572
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 12: The ACA credits don't expire to the end of the year.

573
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 12: We have plenty of time to debate and talk about that,

574
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 12: which is exactly what we should do, not attach it

575
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 12: and cram it down the throats of the American people.

576
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 6: But Congresswoman, just for clarity, do you support any extension

577
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 6: to the expiring ACA premium tax credits?

578
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 12: What I support is going through regular order and having

579
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 12: debates and discussions. That is how government is supposed to work.

580
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 12: We are supposed to work for the American people, and

581
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 12: that's what Republicans are doing right now by continuing to

582
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 12: want to keep the government open.

583
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: Well, there are a lot of questions about how that's

584
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: going to take place. Democrats tell us that notifications start

585
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: going out today to those folks and that premiums are

586
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: in fact already rising. What are you hearing about the

587
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: cost of healthcare in Michigan.

588
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, listen, the cost of healthcare is extremely important, and

589
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 12: that's why I applaud President Trump. He told you on

590
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 12: the campaign trail that he was going to bring drug

591
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 12: prices and what did he do yesterday? He brought drug

592
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 12: prices down. So I applaud President Trump for doing that.

593
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 12: He's actually not talking about it and not using it

594
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 12: as leverage. He's actually delivering for the American people. What

595
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 12: the people in my district are also telling me is

596
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 12: they are tired of the WISTE, the fraud, the abuse

597
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 12: that is happening in this healthcare situation right now, and

598
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 12: that has got to be eliminated. That's exactly what Republicans

599
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 12: did through the Working Family's tax cuts, and that's what

600
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 12: we are going to continue to do. Let's get rid

601
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 12: of the Wasiste, the fraud, the abuse, to make sure

602
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 12: that the healthcare programs that we do have actually work

603
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 12: for the American people.

604
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 6: In the final minute, we have you, Congresswoman. We did

605
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 6: hear Democratic leaders repeatedly say that the ultimate decider here

606
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 6: is going to be President Trump. Is that the right

607
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 6: assessment is the White House fully leading these negotiations.

608
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 12: Well, right now, President Trump is our commander in chief

609
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 12: right and the Republicans. We have been in constant contact

610
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 12: as House Republicans with the White House, with President Trump

611
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 12: on keeping the government open. The President wants to keep

612
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 12: the government open. We want to keep the government open.

613
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 12: The only people right now that are standing in the

614
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 12: way are the Democrats. So we've been in constant communication

615
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 12: and constant contact. We're ready to go.

616
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 6: All right, Republican Congresswoman Lisa mcclan she's the chairwoman of

617
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 6: the House Republican Conference and represents Michigan's ninth district. Thank

618
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 6: you so much for joining us here.

619
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 4: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

620
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: more coming up after this.

621
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

622
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

623
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bluemberg business app. You

624
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

625
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: New York station. Just say Alexa Bloomberg eleven thirty.

626
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wednesday edition if you're just joining us

627
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: of Ballots of Power. Yeah, it's only Wednesday. Seemed like

628
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: yesterday was a couple of days in one, but it

629
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: is the first day of the shutdown.

630
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 4: Here we are.

631
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: We saw it coming literally months ago. In fact, started

632
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: talking about this back in March, the last time Chuck

633
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: Schumer quote unquote caved and was shamed by many progressives.

634
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: The seeds were planted for this moment many months ago.

635
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: The question is how do we get out of it?

636
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: Where are the off ramps if they exist? Remembering, of course,

637
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: and we just talked about this with Jonathan Samai. The

638
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: first Trump administration saw a record shutdown that was thirty

639
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: five days, but that was a so called partial shutdown,

640
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: and there were some other outside factors that led that

641
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: to happen. Terry Haynes at Pangaea Policy, who we followed

642
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: very closely here in Washington, in his latest note to

643
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: clients unpacks, that's the whole thing. Five reasons why this

644
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: shutdown very likely won't last long. Leave it to Terry

645
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: to find the silver linings here. Number One, Schumer's Senate

646
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: group already is not unified and is fraying. Remember we

647
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: got three last night and voted along with this.

648
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 10: Two.

649
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: Pressure will continue to build on Senate Democrats as the

650
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: fate of public employees rapidly concentrates their minds thanks to

651
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: Trump's threats to terminate many of them. Remember seven hundred

652
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand furloughs today could become layoffs. Three d's

653
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: are susceptible to pressure on government data. Oh that's right,

654
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: the BLS not kicking out the jobs report on Friday,

655
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: markets nervous. Four Once the Democrats resistance political point is

656
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: made the next days for the party's respective voter bases

657
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: major donors pressure points today signal a resolution to allow

658
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: negotiations on Obamacare premiums.

659
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: And Five.

660
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: Remember, continuing government funding at current levels is in itself

661
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: a democratic win. We'll see about that, because they're counting

662
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: the days right now at the Pentagon.

663
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 4: And if you think that.

664
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: We're going to be able to pay our troops indefinitely here,

665
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: you might be disappointed with what we're about to hear.

666
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: From Arnold Pinaro, the retired Marine Corps general, is with

667
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: us now, former staff director of the Senate Armed Services Committee,

668
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: with his view on what's happening here in a world

669
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: of perpetual crs and now a shutdown.

670
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 4: General. It's great to have you back.

671
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: I saw the statement that you kicked out earlier this week,

672
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: and you're concerned with readiness. We've had a lot of

673
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: politicians on last couple of days, and everybody's playing a

674
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: blame game right now. But I want to get to

675
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: the matter at hand with you, because you're talking about

676
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: troops deployed in harm's way do not receive their pay.

677
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: Civilians performing critical defense functions are furloughed or required again

678
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 2: to work without compensation. And importantly, we never think about

679
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 2: this or talk about it. At least the small businesses

680
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 2: that sustain our defense industrial base face immediate financial strain.

681
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: How long this go on, general before it does impact

682
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: our readiness?

683
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 13: Well, Joe, it's impacting our readiness right now today. There's

684
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 13: nothing positive about a government shutdown, particularly as it relates

685
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 13: to national security, especially when there's no clear path to

686
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 13: a resolution, as Jonathan clearly outlined, and it was totally

687
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 13: avoidable the troops and harms way many of them in

688
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 13: very dangerous places. We live in a world more dangerous

689
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 13: and uncertain than the peak of the Cold War. They're

690
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 13: not being paid in their families just like average Americans.

691
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 14: They need their paychecks.

692
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 13: We've already sent home over three hundred thousand defense civilians

693
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 13: on furlough.

694
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 14: Is part of that larger number. A number of tens

695
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 14: of thousands.

696
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 13: Are having to remain on the job for safety and security,

697
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 13: but they aren't being paid either cutting edge equipment that's

698
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 13: coming off our production lines that need to go to

699
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 13: the hands of our warfighters, or being parked in the

700
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 13: parking lots because the defense civilians that have to be

701
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 13: there to accept them on behalf of the government aren't working.

702
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 13: And again, the more important things small businesses that are

703
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 13: the backbone of our supply chain. They're the backbone of

704
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 13: the supply chain if you're building a man fighter, or

705
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 13: a submarine or just about any other thing. They are

706
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 13: being sent home and shuddered many and they will never

707
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 13: get back paid. Unlike the troops and the civilians if

708
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 13: the government ever reopens, but the small businesses, many of

709
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 13: them will be put out of business.

710
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 14: Necessary training.

711
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 13: We the fathers and mothers, give us their sons and

712
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 13: daughters to serve in the military, expecting them to be

713
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 13: well led, well equipped, and well trained. Well, we're not

714
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 13: doing the training right now, and you have to do

715
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 13: constant and realistic training in the world that.

716
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 14: We live in.

717
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 13: And frankly, the sad thing about this it was totally unavoidable.

718
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 14: We've started the last twenty five years.

719
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 13: With a continuing resolution in the first quarter to give

720
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 13: the Congress more time to work out compromises. I really

721
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 13: feel like the Democratic leadership is picked the wrong fight.

722
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 13: They're shooting on the wrong target, and their bullets are

723
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 13: hurting real people just to send a message to their base.

724
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 13: Very unfortunate. It is hurting military readiness today.

725
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 4: I was in the Senate last evening.

726
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: General I was talking with Senator Eric Schmidt about the

727
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: fact that troops in harm's way, men and women in

728
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 2: uniform would not be getting paid, and he stopped me

729
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: in my tracks and said, we're working on something here

730
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: to tap one hundred and fifty billion I think it

731
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: was that was in the President's big beautiful bill to

732
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: try to cover their paychecks. In the meantime, you're pointing

733
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 2: out that that money has a very different and very

734
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: important purpose.

735
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 13: Look, I'm for the troops getting paid, and as a

736
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 13: commanding general of a marine division, when my troops weren't

737
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 13: being paid, I raised unsure it came.

738
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 14: But that Reconciliation bill is.

739
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 13: For monetization and investment. If you start spending it on payroll,

740
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 13: you're gonna blow a lot of money. Our defense payrolls

741
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 13: for our military and our civilians are quite large, and

742
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 13: that is not the purpose of what was put in

743
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 13: the reconciliation God bless him Navy Seal and his thinking,

744
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 13: but that is not the.

745
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 14: Purpose of that money, and it should not be used

746
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 14: for that.

747
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 13: Furthermore, it takes all the pressure off of the democratic

748
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 13: leadership if all of a sudden there's no harm being done.

749
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 13: I hate to say it that way, but that's just

750
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,479
Speaker 13: the cold, hard facts of life. We need the Golden Dome.

751
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 13: We need to modernize our navy, We need to modernize

752
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 13: the Air Force has the oldest fighters and fewer fighters.

753
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 14: Than we've ever had.

754
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 13: The army is fifty percent smaller than the peak of

755
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 13: the Cold War. That money is designed for modernization investment,

756
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 13: not for payrolls.

757
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: What happens to procurement and a time like this is

758
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: that a longer term process with money is allocated, so

759
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 2: it's not impacted by a shutdown or is this at

760
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: risk as well?

761
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 14: Well, it's up to the individual contracts.

762
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 13: Typically the Department of the Fence does not like to

763
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 13: shut down the big production lines because they it would

764
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 13: be so expensive and so hard to start a back

765
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 13: up again. And many of them are funded and so

766
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 13: if there's a contract that's funded, if ONB allows it,

767
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 13: they have the discretion to continue that. So typically they

768
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 13: have not shut down the big production lines, but unfortunately,

769
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 13: like I mentioned, they shut down the small businesses that

770
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 13: are the heart and so the small businesses that do

771
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 13: forging and castings. You can't build a fighter without forging

772
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 13: and casting.

773
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 14: So even though maybe.

774
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 13: The big production line of one of the large primes

775
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 13: can continue, it's not necessarily true that the small business

776
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 13: supply chain is going to be there when they need

777
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 13: the park.

778
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: Well, that gets back to what you said about these

779
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: small businesses that sustain the defense industrial base. People are

780
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: familiar with the lockheeds of the rtx's and the Northrop

781
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: grummings general, how small are some of these businesses and

782
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: what services do they provide, Well, there are two kinds.

783
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 13: They provide a lot of the equipment in specialty technical equipment, microelectronics,

784
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 13: things that go into our large production platforms at the

785
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 13: big primes. The big primes can manage cast flows. Small

786
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 13: b businesses don't have spare cash. They can't keep people

787
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 13: on the payroll when they're not being paid, and so

788
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 13: they either have to send them home and administratively, but

789
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 13: tens of thousands of small businesses both in terms of

790
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 13: services to the Department of Defense, running the call centers,

791
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 13: running the health business, running the IT services, doing the

792
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 13: kind of equipment, building the equipment that we need in

793
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 13: our supply chain. If you look at some of the

794
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 13: major backlogs that we have on our large items of equipment,

795
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 13: it's basically because the small businesses in the supply chain

796
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 13: have not been able to keep up with demand. This

797
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 13: is just going to make it a lot worse. And again,

798
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 13: these companies never get repaid. So this is not an

799
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 13: issue where Okay, we're going to open the government back

800
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 13: up and we're going to send them all that back pay.

801
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 13: There is no back pay when they don't do the work.

802
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 13: The government worker and the military sooner or later those

803
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 13: that are allowed to come back on the civilian side.

804
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 13: Like you said, many could be laid off under this

805
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 13: circumstance because they want to reduce the size of government.

806
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 14: But the small businesses never yet paid.

807
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: Well, that's right, and boy, that goes for a lot

808
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: of them around here, related to the defense industry and otherwise.

809
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 4: General, if you live in Washington, d C.

810
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: This is a big time local economic story for a

811
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: lot of small business owners. I want to ask you, General,

812
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: because I don't always get a chance to talk with

813
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: you about what happened yesterday at Quantico, and I suspect

814
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 2: that you were watching pretty closely at a very important

815
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 2: uh point of geography for the Marine Corps Officer Training School.

816
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: And Pete heggs what almost looks like a ted talk

817
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: general back.

818
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 13: From Vietnam the station to Quantico Training Section. Petendant's going

819
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 13: to that's right. I call it what happened yesterday a

820
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 13: fairly traditional thing we call commanders in tent. When I

821
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 13: took over the commanding General, Fourth Ring Division, I called

822
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 13: in all my regimental commanders, battalion commanders, senior listed, got

823
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 13: them all in one room at one time, and said, okay,

824
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 13: this is what we need to do in the fourth Division.

825
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 13: We need to increase the war fighting radess of the division.

826
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 13: That's going to be our mission. Here's how you're going

827
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 13: to do it. So it's called commanders in tent So

828
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 13: it didn't bother me that the top civilian leader in

829
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 13: the Pentagon would call them in to make sure they

830
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 13: basically get everybody on the same sheet of music.

831
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 14: And I'll be honest, what do you think of his tone?

832
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 13: I have to thank this passage center Dan Soe and

833
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 13: a fellow Marine of the standards of rigorous physical training, appearance,

834
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 13: proficiency in your military skills, realistic and tough training.

835
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 14: These are in the DNA of the United States Marine Corps.

836
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 13: So I didn't find anything, you know, to be concerned

837
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 13: about in that area.

838
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: I think it was the tone, the idea of the

839
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 2: young man walking in and telling the elders with more

840
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 2: experience how to do their jobs. Did you did you

841
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: appreciate the way the message was delivered?

842
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 13: You know, I'm not an expert on that, but look,

843
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 13: we have savine control of the military.

844
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 14: We have elections in this country. The two top civilians

845
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 14: and the chain.

846
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 13: Of command to the war fighting commands is a legislation

847
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 13: that I helped write in nineteen eighty six when we

848
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 13: reformed Goldwater Nichols lost. And so basically, if it's a

849
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 13: legal order, you know, our military understands that they're going

850
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 13: to follow the legal orders of the chain of come in.

851
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 13: And so you know, we've had a lot of different

852
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 13: people service Secretary of Defense over the years. We've had

853
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 13: a lot of people serve in the White House over

854
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 13: the years, and so our military gets used to different personalities.

855
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 14: So you know, I'm not going to comment on the tone.

856
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 13: I think we need to focus on the ten Directeds,

857
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 13: and frankly, I didn't have a lot that I was

858
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 13: concerned about in any of the things that he rolled out.

859
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 14: We should make promotions strictly on the merits.

860
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 13: We need people to basically be able to be proficient

861
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 13: in their military occupational skills. All of those things have

862
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 13: been fundamental to the Department now the Department of War

863
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 13: they call it, you know, for all the years that

864
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 13: I served in uniform. So to me, I think it

865
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 13: was very appropriate to make sure everybody get everybody on

866
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 13: the same sheet.

867
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: Well, as I said yesterday, General, I need to start

868
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: doing my setup.

869
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to make it. It's great to

870
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 4: have you back.

871
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 2: Arnold Peronaro, retired two star Marine Corps general with us

872
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: here on Balance of Power. Thanks for listening to the

873
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

874
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,

875
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,

876
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.