WEBVTT - Who was Jacob Bronowski? Tim The Lawyer talks to Armstrong & Getty 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.640 So we don't yet Tim the Lawyer, as he was 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.200 known when he was a regular caller on the Armstrong 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:07.960 and get A show many many years ago. We don't 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.240 get Tim the Lawyer, Tim sandifor in studio as much 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.080 as we used to. But since you are in studio today, 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.640 Tim Sandi for yeah, I love what you've done with 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.040 the place. You are still bearded. I am. You know, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.480 it's been eight years that i've been that I've had 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.160 a beard, and you asked me every time, what an 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:30.720 idiot you know? And you're not carrying a trash can size? 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.640 No soda? Yeah, I used to to. I used to, 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 and time caught up with me. I'm off carbonated beverages. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.880 I'm a yeah, I been taking blue a gasket or something. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.720 Congratulations on the beard. End de soda. Before we get 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.479 into the substance of our conversation with Tim about his 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.000 fabulous new tome and other constitutional issues in America, do 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.120 things number one, and I think this will be good 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.160 for you to hear. You know, those warnings like McDonald's pie, 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:02.600 the hot apple pie that says content caution, content maybe hot, filing, 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.319 maybe hot. And we've always asked, who are those four well, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.160 there for me for the second day in a row. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.800 I've gotten a brand new hot cup of coffee, gotten 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.200 into a brief conversation with somebody, then swigged down an 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.200 enormous mouthful and burnt my tongue in my mouth and 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.880 and cried out in pain, fury, and humiliation. So those 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.640 warnings are for me. I sympathize man. I drew blood 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.960 eating shrimp twice in a row a few weeks ago. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.480 It was how do you how do you manage to? 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.280 I cut my hand with shrimp tails at two separate 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.160 meals on two successive days, until there was blood running 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.480 down my hand. How does somebody do that? I don't know, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.759 but I've never thought of prawns as a weapon. You're 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.000 a lawyer. Why didn't just sue somebody? Second thing, do 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.560 you agree with Jack and my interpretation of the Eighth Amendment. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.040 It's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. If something is 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.920 merely cruel or merely unusual, like being berated by clowns, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:02.120 that would be unusual. It's permitted under the Eighth Amnut. Okay, alright, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:07.040 so it's gonna be unusual, right, So listen, I have 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.800 intentionally and it's taken some self control not looked up 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:17.120 the name Jacob Bronowski, Tim's latest book. And Tim is 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.760 the author of a number of absolutely fabulous books about 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.760 constitutional rights and property rights, and and fairly recently Frederick 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.520 Douglass Self Made Man, which is just terrific about that 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.960 great great American um. So when I saw your new 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.320 book is the assent of Jacob Bronowski, I've never heard 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.720 of this human in my life. I intentionally did not 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:39.840 look it up. It sounds like a Coen Brothers character. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.600 Who who is this human? And why did you take 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.040 your valuable time to write a boy? I was looking 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.840 for a subject that absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with law, 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.520 And so I'm speaking today later today at noon, I'm 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.960 speaking to the Federal Society about my new book and 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.120 I the assignment is to find some way to relate 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.000 it to law, which is going to be very challenging. 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:00.760 But no, so you need to sub I you considered 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:05.000 most as lack, but you decided that well, his name 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.160 is almost as exotic. Jacob Arknowski was a scientist and 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.919 philosopher who lived from eight to nineteen seventy four, and 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.240 those few people who remember him still today will remember 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.520 him for his classic nineteen seventy three television miniseries The 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.160 Ascent of Man, which aired on PBS. And it's this 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.920 lavish thirteen hour documentary on the history of science. And 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:27.600 I I watched it when I was in college, and 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.200 I got interested in in Bernofsky himself. And it turned 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.560 out that he was a fascinating person who knew everybody 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.480 or was involved with everything interesting that happened in the 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.200 twentieth century. He was the head of the British mission 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.360 sent to assess the effects of the atomic bombs at 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.640 Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He was best friends with Leois Allard, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.720 who invented the atomic bomb, but also with Samuel Beckett, 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.840 who was he The two of them wrote a book together. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.640 He was friends with people like T. S. Eliott and 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.000 Dylan Thomas. He co founded the sac Institute in Lahoya 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.480 with Jonah sok. Held is a fascinating guy, he wrote. 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.000 He wrote a radio play that it won the equivalent 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.440 of an Emmy in nineteen fifty. He wrote an opera. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:12.080 He proved that Australia Epithecus afrikaanus is a human relative 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.760 by using a sophisticated mathematical algorithm, because that was his 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.160 that was his specialty. It was mathematics. And he revolutionized 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.840 the understanding of the eighteenth century poet William Blake. So 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.200 he was one of these these Renaissance men who just 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.680 was a fascinating figure. And I thought nobody's ever written 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.680 a biography of him, so I should. Wow. It's interesting 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.000 how some people want regularly when I'm reading history and 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:35.560 I do it at all the time, he come across 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.360 a story or a person and you think, how come 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.320 I've never heard this? People? Some things just get lost 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.760 to history. Amazing people in amazing stories that just for 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.160 whatever reason, don't make the The underdisgust and overdiscussed how 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:51.560 much do we know about Marilyn Monroe his contemporary seriously 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.960 compared compared to somebody Mickey Mantle for them, and Bernowski 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:56.919 was a celebrity in his day. He was. He was 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.479 a big enough name in Great Britain for twenty or 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.280 thirty years that you know, taxi drivers would hail him 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.720 on the street. He's even mentioned in a Monty Python skit, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.640 The Exploding Penguin, when one character says to another, uh, 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.200 you know, why is there a penguin on the Telly 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.200 and the other says, who am I blood Dr Bloody 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:16.279 Brunowski because he was that well known. Wow, I was 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.720 totally wasted on The problem was he died in August 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:24.279 of seventy four, only months before his show aired in 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.880 the United States, and so right when he was on 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.039 the cusp of becoming a really famous figure in the 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.080 United States, where he had lived for a decade, by 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.800 that time, he was gone, and so he vanished from 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.200 the scene, and everybody forgot about him. And I think 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.800 that's a real shame. So I thought, I decided. I 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.280 decided to try and bring more interest to what he 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.200 did and analyze his philosophical writing and his literary work 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.320 and stuff. The problem was, he was involved in so 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.159 many things and knew so many things that it took 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.040 that it took a long time for me to learn 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.520 enough about those things to be able to talk intelligently 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:58.880 about it. So I've been working on this book for 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.640 twenty years since I was a senior in college, and 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.000 it is finally done and finally published, and it's called 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.240 The Ascent of Jacob Bronowski, and I hope you'll all buy. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.440 Speaking of getting published, was it difficult to go to 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.400 somebody and say, I want to write about this person. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.400 They said, who can't you write about a founding father 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:18.040 or something. Fortunately I found the publishers who who did 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.400 remember who Bernofsky was and that that that worked out. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.520 But yeah, there was some difficulty in that. Uh. A 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.719 lot of the people that he knew are gone. Now. 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.000 I did have the good fortune of interviewing some of them. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.640 M The coolest one was I got to have lunch 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.200 with Francis Crick, who won the Nobel Prize in the 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.400 nineteen fifties for discovering the structure of DNA, the only 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:42.280 Nobel Prize wenter ever to buy me lunch, And that 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.640 was that was by far the coolest part of the research. 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:47.640 And did you find the old chap to be a 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.880 stimulating wonderfully? It was? This was this was while the O. J. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.000 Simpson trial was going on, and I asked him what 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:58.200 he thought about people ignoring DNA evidence in trials. He said, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.279 he said, well, I guess you have to knew how 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.800 the American legal system works. And he had so much 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.760 scorn in his voice and he said the word legal. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:06.760 But I didn't mention that I was in law school 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.440 at the time. Um, but he was. He was a wonderful, 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.520 wonderful gentleman. And he remember very distinctly on the way 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.960 back from the restaurant him explaining to me the then 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.840 newly discovered eyelis gene, which is the gene that if 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.040 you knock it out, uh, the fruit fly or whatever 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.080 will be born without eyes. And this is one of 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.480 the oldest genes in the genome. It's called the hawks gene. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.520 It's been around since the dawn of evolutionary time. And 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.640 it's the same gene that we have in our own 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.800 bodies to control the development of eyes in the embryo. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.680 So years later, I was reading a book about genetics 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.760 and I ran across this, the discussion of the eilis gene. 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.920 I thought, wait a minute, that Francis Crick himself explained 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.800 that to me. That that's a really amazing experience in 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:53.640 my life. But Crick and Bronowski were good friends. In fact, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.520 before his death, Krick was using the same office that 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.560 Bernowski had used down at the Sauk Institute in San Diego. 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.360 This just flitted into my head. I'm like an eyed 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.920 fruit fly in terms of our ability to pay attention. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.160 This just flitted into my head, what do you when 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:10.320 you get up in the morning, what do you what 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.080 do you check news wise, like for what's going on 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.280 in the world, Like what's your first thing? Twitter? And 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.720 then like, well, what how do you structure your feed? 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.120 How many people do you follow? I followed quite a 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.640 lot of people I don't remember, somewhere maybe a thousand 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.400 something like that. What tends to be at the top 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:31.119 of the year? Listen they news publications or people? I yeah, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.520 people primarily in fact, just uh, just this morning, I 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.920 was thinking of writing a tweet about what who I 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.720 would recommend for the Nobel for the Pulitzer Prize if 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.800 I were in charge of the of the Pulitzer Prize. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.960 And the three names are are John Ziegler Um, Elizabeth 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.120 Nolan Brown at Reason, and Robbie Save at Recent The 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.760 three of them are just are the real journalists that 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.839 are still working today. And of course Dan Walters. Since 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.280 I'm in Sacramento, I need to mention the only remaining 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.880 journalist in the state of California. Dan is legendary. He's amazing. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.920 He's one of the great clear eyed writers. I just wish, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.240 I just wish his articles would be three or four 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.000 Times as long as they are. Did you read the 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.800 transcript of what the editor there at the New York 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.559 Times said last week to his crowd. Yes, it's it's 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.000 just incredible word that that might be the most important 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.559 newspaper in the world, or at least formally was, and 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.280 in the direction they're willing to go, it's it's troubling 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.800 and expecting a newspaper that recently ran articles such as 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.840 women in the Soviet Union had better sex under communism 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.360 and the Soviet space program was better for women's equality. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.720 Expecting a newspaper or even calling it a newspaper and 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.840 when it runs articles like that, I think is excessive. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.080 I think The New York Times has clearly gone off 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.400 the deep end into not just leftist partisanship, which you 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.560 know is kind of expected in the media, but in 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.800 the most extreme form of it. And the same is 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.320 true of CNN. I mean, I love I love CNN, 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.600 but it's like, day after day, it's just it's become partisan, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.400 uh enterprise. I can't stand of absurdity in my opinion. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.280 I mean, it's just you can't even take it serious. 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:09.920 And it's as bad for the left as it is 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.320 for the right. Absolutely absolutely. Over time, of course it 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.240 is going to be. And it's just it's it's surprising 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.880 to me that people of that caliber. I assume you 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.079 have to have, uh, you know, some pretty good credentials 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:23.640 to end up being in the newsroom at the New 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.360 York Times. I would hope, but I don't know. And 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.120 and you're willing to abandon journalistic principles because you hate 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:33.200 Trump so much. It's so cheap and and and easy 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.360 to do to make everything be about Donald Trump. I mean, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.400 I'm I'm everybody who follows me on Twitter knows my 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.800 views on the president. But the it's so easy to 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.000 just make it a series of not even often not 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.560 even accurate slams on the president, day after day after day, 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.120 instead of the kind of sophisticated, in depth research and 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.920 reporting that takes a lot of work and and is 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.720 a is sometimes very frustrating when you're doing it, because 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.120 you have to fact check everything twice in three times. 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:04.920 And when you see people who do it well, like 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.439 the people I've mentioned Elizabeth Brown and Robbie Suave and 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:12.520 John Ziegler, it's it's a testament to the continuing art form. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:20.360 There's no market for that eggs. Well, it does relate. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.640 It relates to Bronowski in the sense that I I 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.520 think there's I think there are people out there who 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:30.760 have a hunger for the kind of sophisticated, intelligent discussion. 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.320 It doesn't have to be eggheaded craziness, but but something 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.040 that has some degree of smarts to it, is really 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.320 good at not idiotic start. There is that too much 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.920 to ask? Well, you believe in a self government? Do 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:44.880 you think we've reached a point where we can't govern 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.439 ourselves because there's not a hunger for people who take 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.960 the time to figure out what's real, whether it fits 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.439 with what you want it to be or not. Are 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.240 you talking about California or the nation? Okay, well, then 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:56.760 you know, I don't think we've I don't think we've 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.640 reached bottom there California. I don't know. I I honestly, 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.680 I'm really impessimistic about the possibility of any kind of 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.000 reform in California. I think California has gone so far 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:13.240 in the direction of taking the easy, emotionalistic, sound good 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.880 answer over hard realities and is so unwilling to face 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.360 reality that I think it's going to be a long, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.440 hard struggle before California is able to right itself. But 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.440 you know, I'm a pessimistic person. Maybe I'm wrong. I 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.240 mean you you you talked to Tom McClintock, and he'll 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.640 always say, oh, California, there's no reason the world, the world, 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.000 why California couldn't change tomorrow and become a you know, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.880 a livabole thriving economies. But I don't buy it. Why 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.480 don't we? Why don't we? Talking about a couple of 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.640 the big stories in the news today with Tim Sander 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.280 for Vice President for Litigation the Goldwater Institute. Is new 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.280 book which sounds fascinating is The Ascent of Jacob Bronowski. 0:12:48.120 --> 0:13:05.120 More to come stay with us the Armstrong and Getty Show. 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.000 You think we have something other than the law and 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:15.319 owner family lawyers on we can do? Tim Sander first 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.520 with us, Tim the Lawyer, Vice President for Litigation the 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.120 Goldwater Institute. His new book is The Ascent of Jacob 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.520 Bronowski somebody had had heard of but hadn't realized I'd 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.680 heard of because I was familiar with these sentiment. It 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.840 sounds like absolutely a fascinating read about a fascinating guy. Um. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.320 But to talk about some of the things that are 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.880 in the news right now again, though we are nationwide 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.520 these days and happy to be Uh. Cal Unicornia continues 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.920 to make news, including the idea of letting children vote, 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.600 beginning with seventeen year olds. Now, I know my way 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.679 around a sentence. I know some pretty words, but your 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.840 way better than me. What do you think of extending 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.000 the vote to teenagers? Well, I a part of me says, 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.400 let him, because the teenagers aren't gonna vote. I mean 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.880 every year, it's the same thing. Every election is the 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.840 same thing. It's rock the vote and get the get 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.480 the young vote out, and they would go registered to 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.880 vote and everything and and and especially the Democrats get 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.600 very excited about all of this, and then then they 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.200 don't show up to vote because they've got an other 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.400 things they're worried about. Um. But as you've said, and 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.559 I think it's totally true, is that the effort to 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.480 to round up people who are too young to know 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.240 how the world works and get them to vote is 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.680 very indicative of the worldview of those who are who 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:28.640 are behind that effort. It's precisely because leftist political philosophy 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:34.360 is so emotionally appealing, but is in fact, Uh, both unworkable, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.880 and in the last analysis, immoral that the there's an 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.479 effort to recruit people who have not had enough experience 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.520 or education in the world to understand its shortcomings, because 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.640 they'll inevitably vote for that, for that goal, that which 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.440 makes them feel good. We got on the topic of 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:55.040 being a pessimistic and I wonder how you're not pessimistic 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.400 with a lot of what's going on. But you said 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.840 your your own book, uh touches on that. Yeah. Well. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.920 Ronofsky was living at a time during the rise of 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.240 the hippie movement. He was very worried about the rise 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.560 of the hippie movement because he thought it was a reactionary, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:15.280 anti technology, anti progress ideology that really threatened to undermine 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.880 the future of the West. Bernovski himself was actually a socialist, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.920 but he was one of those old fashioned, technologically technical, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.440 progressive kind of socialists, not not like a throwback anti 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.280 technology type. And he was very worried about about this, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:30.960 and in fact he talked about it in in the 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.200 last episode of The Ascent of Man. If you haven't 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:34.880 seen this documentary, you really mut I think it's the 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.480 best documentary everybody. It's It's available on DVD and you 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.320 can find yeah very much. So the costumes are litt 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.240 funny because his envy three. But yeah, but absolutely And 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.160 in the last episode, I mean almost the entire episode 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.720 was filmed as a spontaneous one hour monologue by Bernofski 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.200 because he was such a good speaker that he he 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.800 could just talk to the camera and they would write 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.880 down what he said. And that was the book version 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.520 of the documentary because he was so interesting thing and 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.440 he talks about this in the last episode and he says, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.360 he says, I have it here. He says, I feel 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.560 I am infinitely saddened to find myself suddenly surrounded in 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.720 the West by a sense of a terrible loss of 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.920 nerve and a retreat from knowledge into into what into 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.840 zen Buddhism, into falsely profound questions about are we not 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.960 just really animals at bottom, into extrasensory perception and mystery 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.240 that do not lie along the line of what we 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.960 are able to know if we devote ourselves to an 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.800 understanding of man. Roski is really worried about this, this 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.120 backlash against science and reason that he saw beginning in 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.560 the late sixties and that have taken over large parts 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.480 of our society. Wow, that is that is great. So 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.800 you can get a book version of the which is 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.840 basically a transcript of the documentary. We want people to 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.560 read your book. Yes, The Ascent of Jacob Bronowski available 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.240 where fine books are traded. Tim the Lawyer Tim Santavor, 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.560 Vice President for Litigation the Goldwater Institute, a fan and 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.840 co host favorite for many many moons, along with his 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.000 delightful and brilliant bride. Good to talk to you, Tom, 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.680 and I'll be talking about the book today in Sacramento, California. 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:10.960 If you happen to be in town. Go to Tim 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.040 the Lawyer dot com to find information about absolutely fantastic 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.160 Big On Marshall's News Next, a couple of different polls 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:17.800 have come out today. We ought to take a look at, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.240 among other things, on The Armstrong and Getty Show.