1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: So we don't yet Tim the Lawyer, as he was 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: known when he was a regular caller on the Armstrong 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: and get A show many many years ago. We don't 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: get Tim the Lawyer, Tim sandifor in studio as much 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: as we used to. But since you are in studio today, 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Tim Sandi for yeah, I love what you've done with 7 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: the place. You are still bearded. I am. You know, 8 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: it's been eight years that i've been that I've had 9 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: a beard, and you asked me every time, what an 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: idiot you know? And you're not carrying a trash can size? 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: No soda? Yeah, I used to to. I used to, 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: and time caught up with me. I'm off carbonated beverages. 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: I'm a yeah, I been taking blue a gasket or something. 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Congratulations on the beard. End de soda. Before we get 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: into the substance of our conversation with Tim about his 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: fabulous new tome and other constitutional issues in America, do 17 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: things number one, and I think this will be good 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: for you to hear. You know, those warnings like McDonald's pie, 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: the hot apple pie that says content caution, content maybe hot, filing, 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: maybe hot. And we've always asked, who are those four well, 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: there for me for the second day in a row. 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: I've gotten a brand new hot cup of coffee, gotten 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: into a brief conversation with somebody, then swigged down an 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: enormous mouthful and burnt my tongue in my mouth and 25 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: and cried out in pain, fury, and humiliation. So those 26 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: warnings are for me. I sympathize man. I drew blood 27 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: eating shrimp twice in a row a few weeks ago. 28 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: It was how do you how do you manage to? 29 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: I cut my hand with shrimp tails at two separate 30 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: meals on two successive days, until there was blood running 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: down my hand. How does somebody do that? I don't know, 32 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: but I've never thought of prawns as a weapon. You're 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: a lawyer. Why didn't just sue somebody? Second thing, do 34 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: you agree with Jack and my interpretation of the Eighth Amendment. 35 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: It's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. If something is 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: merely cruel or merely unusual, like being berated by clowns, 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: that would be unusual. It's permitted under the Eighth Amnut. Okay, alright, 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: so it's gonna be unusual, right, So listen, I have 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: intentionally and it's taken some self control not looked up 40 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: the name Jacob Bronowski, Tim's latest book. And Tim is 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: the author of a number of absolutely fabulous books about 42 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: constitutional rights and property rights, and and fairly recently Frederick 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: Douglass Self Made Man, which is just terrific about that 44 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: great great American um. So when I saw your new 45 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: book is the assent of Jacob Bronowski, I've never heard 46 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: of this human in my life. I intentionally did not 47 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: look it up. It sounds like a Coen Brothers character. 48 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: Who who is this human? And why did you take 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: your valuable time to write a boy? I was looking 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: for a subject that absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with law, 51 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: And so I'm speaking today later today at noon, I'm 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: speaking to the Federal Society about my new book and 53 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: I the assignment is to find some way to relate 54 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: it to law, which is going to be very challenging. 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: But no, so you need to sub I you considered 56 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: most as lack, but you decided that well, his name 57 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: is almost as exotic. Jacob Arknowski was a scientist and 58 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: philosopher who lived from eight to nineteen seventy four, and 59 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: those few people who remember him still today will remember 60 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: him for his classic nineteen seventy three television miniseries The 61 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: Ascent of Man, which aired on PBS. And it's this 62 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: lavish thirteen hour documentary on the history of science. And 63 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: I I watched it when I was in college, and 64 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: I got interested in in Bernofsky himself. And it turned 65 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: out that he was a fascinating person who knew everybody 66 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: or was involved with everything interesting that happened in the 67 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: twentieth century. He was the head of the British mission 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: sent to assess the effects of the atomic bombs at 69 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He was best friends with Leois Allard, 70 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: who invented the atomic bomb, but also with Samuel Beckett, 71 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: who was he The two of them wrote a book together. 72 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: He was friends with people like T. S. Eliott and 73 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: Dylan Thomas. He co founded the sac Institute in Lahoya 74 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: with Jonah sok. Held is a fascinating guy, he wrote. 75 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: He wrote a radio play that it won the equivalent 76 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: of an Emmy in nineteen fifty. He wrote an opera. 77 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: He proved that Australia Epithecus afrikaanus is a human relative 78 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: by using a sophisticated mathematical algorithm, because that was his 79 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: that was his specialty. It was mathematics. And he revolutionized 80 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: the understanding of the eighteenth century poet William Blake. So 81 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: he was one of these these Renaissance men who just 82 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: was a fascinating figure. And I thought nobody's ever written 83 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: a biography of him, so I should. Wow. It's interesting 84 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: how some people want regularly when I'm reading history and 85 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: I do it at all the time, he come across 86 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: a story or a person and you think, how come 87 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: I've never heard this? People? Some things just get lost 88 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: to history. Amazing people in amazing stories that just for 89 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: whatever reason, don't make the The underdisgust and overdiscussed how 90 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: much do we know about Marilyn Monroe his contemporary seriously 91 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: compared compared to somebody Mickey Mantle for them, and Bernowski 92 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: was a celebrity in his day. He was. He was 93 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: a big enough name in Great Britain for twenty or 94 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: thirty years that you know, taxi drivers would hail him 95 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: on the street. He's even mentioned in a Monty Python skit, 96 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: The Exploding Penguin, when one character says to another, uh, 97 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, why is there a penguin on the Telly 98 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: and the other says, who am I blood Dr Bloody 99 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: Brunowski because he was that well known. Wow, I was 100 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: totally wasted on The problem was he died in August 101 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: of seventy four, only months before his show aired in 102 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: the United States, and so right when he was on 103 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: the cusp of becoming a really famous figure in the 104 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: United States, where he had lived for a decade, by 105 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: that time, he was gone, and so he vanished from 106 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: the scene, and everybody forgot about him. And I think 107 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: that's a real shame. So I thought, I decided. I 108 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: decided to try and bring more interest to what he 109 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: did and analyze his philosophical writing and his literary work 110 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: and stuff. The problem was, he was involved in so 111 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: many things and knew so many things that it took 112 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: that it took a long time for me to learn 113 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: enough about those things to be able to talk intelligently 114 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: about it. So I've been working on this book for 115 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: twenty years since I was a senior in college, and 116 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: it is finally done and finally published, and it's called 117 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: The Ascent of Jacob Bronowski, and I hope you'll all buy. 118 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: Speaking of getting published, was it difficult to go to 119 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: somebody and say, I want to write about this person. 120 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: They said, who can't you write about a founding father 121 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: or something. Fortunately I found the publishers who who did 122 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: remember who Bernofsky was and that that that worked out. 123 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, there was some difficulty in that. Uh. A 124 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: lot of the people that he knew are gone. Now. 125 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: I did have the good fortune of interviewing some of them. 126 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: M The coolest one was I got to have lunch 127 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: with Francis Crick, who won the Nobel Prize in the 128 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties for discovering the structure of DNA, the only 129 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize wenter ever to buy me lunch, And that 130 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: was that was by far the coolest part of the research. 131 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: And did you find the old chap to be a 132 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: stimulating wonderfully? It was? This was this was while the O. J. 133 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: Simpson trial was going on, and I asked him what 134 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: he thought about people ignoring DNA evidence in trials. He said, 135 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: he said, well, I guess you have to knew how 136 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: the American legal system works. And he had so much 137 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: scorn in his voice and he said the word legal. 138 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: But I didn't mention that I was in law school 139 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: at the time. Um, but he was. He was a wonderful, 140 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: wonderful gentleman. And he remember very distinctly on the way 141 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: back from the restaurant him explaining to me the then 142 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: newly discovered eyelis gene, which is the gene that if 143 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: you knock it out, uh, the fruit fly or whatever 144 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: will be born without eyes. And this is one of 145 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: the oldest genes in the genome. It's called the hawks gene. 146 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: It's been around since the dawn of evolutionary time. And 147 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: it's the same gene that we have in our own 148 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: bodies to control the development of eyes in the embryo. 149 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: So years later, I was reading a book about genetics 150 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: and I ran across this, the discussion of the eilis gene. 151 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: I thought, wait a minute, that Francis Crick himself explained 152 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: that to me. That that's a really amazing experience in 153 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: my life. But Crick and Bronowski were good friends. In fact, 154 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: before his death, Krick was using the same office that 155 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: Bernowski had used down at the Sauk Institute in San Diego. 156 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: This just flitted into my head. I'm like an eyed 157 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: fruit fly in terms of our ability to pay attention. 158 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: This just flitted into my head, what do you when 159 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: you get up in the morning, what do you what 160 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: do you check news wise, like for what's going on 161 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: in the world, Like what's your first thing? Twitter? And 162 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: then like, well, what how do you structure your feed? 163 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: How many people do you follow? I followed quite a 164 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: lot of people I don't remember, somewhere maybe a thousand 165 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: something like that. What tends to be at the top 166 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:31,119 Speaker 1: of the year? Listen they news publications or people? I yeah, 167 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: people primarily in fact, just uh, just this morning, I 168 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: was thinking of writing a tweet about what who I 169 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: would recommend for the Nobel for the Pulitzer Prize if 170 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: I were in charge of the of the Pulitzer Prize. 171 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: And the three names are are John Ziegler Um, Elizabeth 172 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: Nolan Brown at Reason, and Robbie Save at Recent The 173 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: three of them are just are the real journalists that 174 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: are still working today. And of course Dan Walters. Since 175 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: I'm in Sacramento, I need to mention the only remaining 176 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: journalist in the state of California. Dan is legendary. He's amazing. 177 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: He's one of the great clear eyed writers. I just wish, 178 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: I just wish his articles would be three or four 179 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: Times as long as they are. Did you read the 180 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: transcript of what the editor there at the New York 181 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: Times said last week to his crowd. Yes, it's it's 182 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: just incredible word that that might be the most important 183 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: newspaper in the world, or at least formally was, and 184 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: in the direction they're willing to go, it's it's troubling 185 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: and expecting a newspaper that recently ran articles such as 186 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: women in the Soviet Union had better sex under communism 187 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: and the Soviet space program was better for women's equality. 188 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: Expecting a newspaper or even calling it a newspaper and 189 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: when it runs articles like that, I think is excessive. 190 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: I think The New York Times has clearly gone off 191 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: the deep end into not just leftist partisanship, which you 192 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: know is kind of expected in the media, but in 193 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: the most extreme form of it. And the same is 194 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: true of CNN. I mean, I love I love CNN, 195 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: but it's like, day after day, it's just it's become partisan, 196 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: uh enterprise. I can't stand of absurdity in my opinion. 197 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just you can't even take it serious. 198 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: And it's as bad for the left as it is 199 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: for the right. Absolutely absolutely. Over time, of course it 200 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: is going to be. And it's just it's it's surprising 201 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: to me that people of that caliber. I assume you 202 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: have to have, uh, you know, some pretty good credentials 203 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: to end up being in the newsroom at the New 204 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: York Times. I would hope, but I don't know. And 205 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: and you're willing to abandon journalistic principles because you hate 206 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: Trump so much. It's so cheap and and and easy 207 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: to do to make everything be about Donald Trump. I mean, 208 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm everybody who follows me on Twitter knows my 209 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: views on the president. But the it's so easy to 210 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: just make it a series of not even often not 211 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: even accurate slams on the president, day after day after day, 212 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: instead of the kind of sophisticated, in depth research and 213 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: reporting that takes a lot of work and and is 214 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: a is sometimes very frustrating when you're doing it, because 215 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: you have to fact check everything twice in three times. 216 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: And when you see people who do it well, like 217 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: the people I've mentioned Elizabeth Brown and Robbie Suave and 218 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: John Ziegler, it's it's a testament to the continuing art form. 219 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: There's no market for that eggs. Well, it does relate. 220 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: It relates to Bronowski in the sense that I I 221 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: think there's I think there are people out there who 222 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: have a hunger for the kind of sophisticated, intelligent discussion. 223 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be eggheaded craziness, but but something 224 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: that has some degree of smarts to it, is really 225 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: good at not idiotic start. There is that too much 226 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: to ask? Well, you believe in a self government? Do 227 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: you think we've reached a point where we can't govern 228 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: ourselves because there's not a hunger for people who take 229 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: the time to figure out what's real, whether it fits 230 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: with what you want it to be or not. Are 231 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: you talking about California or the nation? Okay, well, then 232 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think we've I don't think we've 233 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: reached bottom there California. I don't know. I I honestly, 234 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: I'm really impessimistic about the possibility of any kind of 235 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: reform in California. I think California has gone so far 236 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: in the direction of taking the easy, emotionalistic, sound good 237 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: answer over hard realities and is so unwilling to face 238 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: reality that I think it's going to be a long, 239 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: hard struggle before California is able to right itself. But 240 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a pessimistic person. Maybe I'm wrong. I 241 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: mean you you you talked to Tom McClintock, and he'll 242 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: always say, oh, California, there's no reason the world, the world, 243 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: why California couldn't change tomorrow and become a you know, 244 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: a livabole thriving economies. But I don't buy it. Why 245 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: don't we? Why don't we? Talking about a couple of 246 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: the big stories in the news today with Tim Sander 247 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: for Vice President for Litigation the Goldwater Institute. Is new 248 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: book which sounds fascinating is The Ascent of Jacob Bronowski. 249 00:12:48,120 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: More to come stay with us the Armstrong and Getty Show. 250 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: You think we have something other than the law and 251 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: owner family lawyers on we can do? Tim Sander first 252 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: with us, Tim the Lawyer, Vice President for Litigation the 253 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: Goldwater Institute. His new book is The Ascent of Jacob 254 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: Bronowski somebody had had heard of but hadn't realized I'd 255 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: heard of because I was familiar with these sentiment. It 256 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: sounds like absolutely a fascinating read about a fascinating guy. Um. 257 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: But to talk about some of the things that are 258 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: in the news right now again, though we are nationwide 259 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: these days and happy to be Uh. Cal Unicornia continues 260 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: to make news, including the idea of letting children vote, 261 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: beginning with seventeen year olds. Now, I know my way 262 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: around a sentence. I know some pretty words, but your 263 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: way better than me. What do you think of extending 264 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: the vote to teenagers? Well, I a part of me says, 265 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: let him, because the teenagers aren't gonna vote. I mean 266 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: every year, it's the same thing. Every election is the 267 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: same thing. It's rock the vote and get the get 268 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: the young vote out, and they would go registered to 269 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: vote and everything and and and especially the Democrats get 270 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: very excited about all of this, and then then they 271 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: don't show up to vote because they've got an other 272 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: things they're worried about. Um. But as you've said, and 273 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: I think it's totally true, is that the effort to 274 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: to round up people who are too young to know 275 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: how the world works and get them to vote is 276 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: very indicative of the worldview of those who are who 277 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: are behind that effort. It's precisely because leftist political philosophy 278 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: is so emotionally appealing, but is in fact, Uh, both unworkable, 279 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: and in the last analysis, immoral that the there's an 280 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,479 Speaker 1: effort to recruit people who have not had enough experience 281 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: or education in the world to understand its shortcomings, because 282 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: they'll inevitably vote for that, for that goal, that which 283 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: makes them feel good. We got on the topic of 284 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: being a pessimistic and I wonder how you're not pessimistic 285 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: with a lot of what's going on. But you said 286 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: your your own book, uh touches on that. Yeah. Well. 287 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: Ronofsky was living at a time during the rise of 288 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: the hippie movement. He was very worried about the rise 289 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: of the hippie movement because he thought it was a reactionary, 290 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: anti technology, anti progress ideology that really threatened to undermine 291 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: the future of the West. Bernovski himself was actually a socialist, 292 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: but he was one of those old fashioned, technologically technical, 293 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: progressive kind of socialists, not not like a throwback anti 294 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: technology type. And he was very worried about about this, 295 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: and in fact he talked about it in in the 296 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: last episode of The Ascent of Man. If you haven't 297 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: seen this documentary, you really mut I think it's the 298 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: best documentary everybody. It's It's available on DVD and you 299 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: can find yeah very much. So the costumes are litt 300 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: funny because his envy three. But yeah, but absolutely And 301 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: in the last episode, I mean almost the entire episode 302 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: was filmed as a spontaneous one hour monologue by Bernofski 303 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: because he was such a good speaker that he he 304 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: could just talk to the camera and they would write 305 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: down what he said. And that was the book version 306 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: of the documentary because he was so interesting thing and 307 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: he talks about this in the last episode and he says, 308 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: he says, I have it here. He says, I feel 309 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: I am infinitely saddened to find myself suddenly surrounded in 310 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: the West by a sense of a terrible loss of 311 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: nerve and a retreat from knowledge into into what into 312 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: zen Buddhism, into falsely profound questions about are we not 313 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: just really animals at bottom, into extrasensory perception and mystery 314 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: that do not lie along the line of what we 315 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: are able to know if we devote ourselves to an 316 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: understanding of man. Roski is really worried about this, this 317 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: backlash against science and reason that he saw beginning in 318 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: the late sixties and that have taken over large parts 319 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: of our society. Wow, that is that is great. So 320 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: you can get a book version of the which is 321 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: basically a transcript of the documentary. We want people to 322 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: read your book. Yes, The Ascent of Jacob Bronowski available 323 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: where fine books are traded. Tim the Lawyer Tim Santavor, 324 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: Vice President for Litigation the Goldwater Institute, a fan and 325 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: co host favorite for many many moons, along with his 326 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: delightful and brilliant bride. Good to talk to you, Tom, 327 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: and I'll be talking about the book today in Sacramento, California. 328 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: If you happen to be in town. Go to Tim 329 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: the Lawyer dot com to find information about absolutely fantastic 330 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: Big On Marshall's News Next, a couple of different polls 331 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: have come out today. We ought to take a look at, 332 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: among other things, on The Armstrong and Getty Show.