WEBVTT - Ep. 034 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:15.320 M This is the me Eater Podcast, coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.640 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening. Don't eat podcast. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:30.960 You can't predict that anything. Everyone, This is the me 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:38.600 Eater Podcast. We're in Missoula, Montana, celebrating Lanton He's birthday. Really, 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:43.160 we're here for the Bad Huntry Hunters and Anglers Annual Rendezvous. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:48.040 And this is number five. Why did why did it 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.760 takes alone to have one? I just knowing every thoughts like, hey, 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.760 let's have it, get together because of what it takes 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.120 to put it on, you know, And I think because 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.640 the organization has been around how long I've been around 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.000 for this our twelfth year. But you know that was 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.000 when we first had staff. I think when we had 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:04.959 the first one, So you had to have someone to 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.000 plan it out. Exactly when I showed up here yesterday. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:09.840 I got here and the first thing I saw his 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.680 callahan uh sneaking out the door going fishing. What did 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.440 you catch you in a two hour two hour float? 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.240 It was a little rushed three two hour cruise, little rushed. Yeah, 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:26.920 um got one rainbow? You know. Um, you know my 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.600 sister in law lives up that river. You run the 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:35.679 Blackfoot River. You met her. Yeah, you caught one fish. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.679 You can catch one, but he did not. Was it 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.920 a big one that you caught. It was a nice fish, 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.200 it wasn't huge. And you guys did a full on float. Yeah. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:51.440 My buddy, uh Ryan Thompson, Caitlin two wigs, uh husband 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:59.120 he name dropping. They live up there anyway, help me 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.200 out a on and basically at the boat on the water, 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.480 We ran up there, jumped in, floated down to their house. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.360 He continued onto the boat ramp and took care of 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.799 all the stuff. Really yeah, and I came back here 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:18.120 in time for the fish released it just like you do. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.919 I'm thinking about having you on. He's T shirt company 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:22.680 made me a T shirt down on the back. It's 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:28.080 gonna be like cud zoo a dandelion, spotted nap weed, 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:34.799 leafy spurge in a rainbow. It's gonna be like UMVASI 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.880 stopping vases. Now, how about bomb come on the front 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:44.440 and bomb that good catching release into the pan of grease. 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:50.959 So now, like, what's the goal of a of the 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.080 the whole deal? When you guys have a you know, 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.359 when the organization has an annual convention, it's like to 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.200 rally people up. Do you guys actually do bis this? 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.080 We do. We had our only face to face board meeting, 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.639 and then we had chapter leaders that came in from 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:08.519 all across the country. I think we had forty five 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.120 chapter leaders, and so we did some training with them, 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.600 and then, like what you talked about rallying the troops. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.399 You know, I think a lot of us only see 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.280 each other one time a year, and so um, having 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.440 the ability to like bring everybody together kind of coalescee 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.600 swap stories just like kind of the traditional you know 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.600 rendezvous where the trappers would come together, um, and then 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.639 were rendezvous and his valley They never did in this valley. 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.200 It's weird, such a great valley. Um. But then you 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.160 have you know, like they go home fired up. And 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.400 I think, you know, we accomplished that in spades. Now, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.480 when you say the board meeting, the board only gets 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.760 together once a year, face to face, face to face. Yeah, 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.600 how many people around the board? We have ten? Right now? 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:58.440 Are you on the board Nope? Okay, I'm a lifetime member. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.240 You saw me try to take notes on the food 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.800 judging contest yesterday? Oh yeah, I mean we got to 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.600 mention that I was gonna talk about that. We judged 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:11.000 the Wild Game cook and cook Off. Yeah, and uh, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:17.240 five teams had five teams and five different chapters. What 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.440 was the only five five different chapters. That's just who 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.560 signed up and who signed up. And it's also, you know, 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.960 I think logistically, you know, camp Chef was obviously a 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.440 great partner in that whole thing, and so um, just 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.279 logistically that's what we could do. And so five chapters 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.720 stepped up and unfortunately we were I was upstairs, so 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.560 I would love you to do So. Yeah, five teams 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.200 did it, and they all had they we had to 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:49.000 rate them on presentation, taste, creativity they're trying to remember, 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.840 also rated them on state. Yeah, Callahan. I looked at 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.840 Callahan's notes at one point and he had made another 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.359 category where he wrote down where they were from, which 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.039 was like just bringing some your biased and do it 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.280 not even being secret. And then Kaalien took all kinds 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.320 of notes, and then later when we got together with 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.920 the judge, he didn't refer to his notes, and every 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.200 time someone asked him or were tallying the scores, every 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.480 time someone asked him, he'd kind of look off in 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:18.120 the sky and didn't give a number without like, without 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.520 referring back to his notes at all. Pure genius. Thank you. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.000 What were you? Uh, what were you like? Had you 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:29.120 memorized your notes or were you like just kind of still, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.800 it was very hard for me, and I felt very 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.520 pressured and everything was really really good and there was 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:41.560 no crazy outlier in there. Every I mean everybody put 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.320 a ton of thought into every dish, and it was 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.360 weighing on me. A guy made, uh, one of one 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.919 of the teams made b bimbop the cream dish and 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.360 then did it with They had it garnished on top 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.440 with glacier lily, which is very pretty. That was a 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.760 pretty dish, vibrant colors, and then you know, the nettles 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.479 don't stood out great. They had there was a dish 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.479 they had fried quail in it, and then uh, some 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.280 sort of hoo dani I can't remember what the hoo 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.720 the animal there was and then they had oh, they 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.320 had elk hirt in the greens. Oh that was good. No, yeah, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.159 that's right. It was like a corned elk cart with 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.440 greens and fried quail and like there was like a 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.839 couple like a honey because they did like a not 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:28.479 a waffle, but it was sort of a take on 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.520 fried chicken and waffles. And I gotta say, I saw 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:36.360 the corn to Elkhart. Uh, I saw a post of 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:37.920 it or something. I was like, No, that's not gonna 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.560 work out. Yeah, but it was great. You know what 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:42.800 I did their day? I brined Uh. You were for 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:47.440 dinner that night, weren't you? I brined uh moose heart 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.960 and just smoked it how to go? She was good? 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.400 Did you like it? Joannie? Keeping? It was good? You 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:01.360 didn't like it? It was good. Every time I tried 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:06.040 to do anything other than fry hard or slicing, throw 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.000 it on the barbecue, and I'm just not me it 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:14.840 doesn't work out. So now, Ryan, what do you gotta 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.720 save for yourself? We gotta We got another man here 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.600 that was gonna say you missed another meal. Callahan was there. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.160 Thursday night we had a big what we called tack 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.600 barn dinner, four of us cooking. Um had some good 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.240 stuff there. What did you guys do with that? For food? Uh? 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.320 We it was all wild game hunter gatherer stuff. Four 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.880 different courses cooked, all camp cook so uh Dutch oven 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.880 grill over we had hank Shaw did five antelopine quarters 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.760 over open flame coals, hanging by a big tripod. Killer 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.040 good that we're dark good killer good. Yeah. We had 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:54.160 four dishes. I did elk loin Montana chickpeas. We had 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:59.160 Charle McGlen did uh Dutch oven. Lasagna made his own cheeses, 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.920 two different cheese. Is um, first time you've ever done 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.120 a Dutch of Amazagna nailed it. Of course, he's a 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.000 he's a stud of a chef. He didn't make those 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:11.920 cheeses out of like, uh, elk and deer milk, did he? Hey? Man, 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.000 check it out. We met a guy you honestly, we 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.920 met a guy in Texas who one time, um, because 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:18.920 you know the hide hunters, the Buffalo hide hunters used 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.280 to cut the mamories open and suck the milk out 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.640 of the mammories and they're butcher and animals. And we 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.240 met a guy down Texas. Remember that guy, which one 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.320 the dude that hunts cranes with the zombie cranes. Oh Mike, yeah, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.920 nasty fanacy. Yeah he he one time was skinning the 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.880 dough and and uh he didn't want to admit it, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.720 like he told me the story. And then later we 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.520 were recording one of these, and I said, hey, man, 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.280 talk about when you were drinking that milk out of 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.199 that deer you were cutting up. Didn't want to talk 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:56.360 about it. There's a private conversation that he wanted. Well, yeah, 0:08:56.400 --> 0:09:01.079 we're a hardcore man, but we're not there yet. So 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.960 when the the whole legs, how did you how did 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.520 did you get cooked into the bone or do you 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.120 have to just keep catting away and letting it cook 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:09.960 more and keep cutting away and letting the coat. It 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.880 was a challenge on that one because we're cooking in 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.560 colder conditions than Hank usually cooks him, so it was 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.640 a little slower for him, but didn't It was rare 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.640 on the bone. Um, but I'd say we got the 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.000 we got it. Oh two thirds was cooked just right 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.640 with rare right at the bone. So we had variations 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.640 have done us through it. So it was like something 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.240 for everybody. Yeah. Yeah, and he made his own had 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.000 his own vinegar. He had over the top of it. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.120 Brought sage, wild sage from California cooked in there with it. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.960 Was fantastic. That's good. Where were the animal from not 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.800 from there? Montana members donated them. Yeah, they're pretty short 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:49.720 on analope in California. Yeah, they're they're running low over there. Um, 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.679 So Ryan, explain your role at b H A chairman 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.080 of the Yeah, I'm chairman of the board of directors. Now, 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:01.120 so what do you do? Uh? Well, oh, we'll try 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.720 to provide some direction and try to bounce ideas off 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.800 of each other and give Land as marching orders and 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.400 give the staff um ideas on where we'd like to 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.720 see the word go. And we've so the board is 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:16.000 chief over Land or Land is chief over the board. Honestly, 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.760 it depends on the day. And who you ask, Um, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.240 it's his birthday, so I guess we'll let him be 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.360 boss today. Land, do me a favorite run through the 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.079 buckets again? I know you did this four year hour 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:26.280 with this, and we did. We spent like an hour 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.200 around the buckets, but hit me, hit me with the buckets, 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.360 but hit me in like real shorthand. Yeah. Yeah, So 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.959 we've got three buckets. First one would be that was 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.160 five buckets, and we changed it because it was too much. 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.360 Too many buckets you still can only carry. Yeah, I 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.040 got I got one of my mouth. I got one 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:42.920 of my mouth, So that's good. I know, we got 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.120 three buckets. First one is access and opportunity. I gotta 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.960 get back to why how did you lose? Okay, tell 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.480 me the buckets and explain, because I imagine you poured 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.679 a bucket into another bucket. We did, yeah, and so 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:56.720 give me a trick where that bucket came from. So 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.480 we have access and opportunities. The first one that was 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.640 a regular bucket. Um, that's our public lands work. That's 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.320 our access to public LANs as, our access to public waters. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.320 And then on the second bucket, which got a lot bigger, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.400 is the back country kind of controvation. And so within 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.800 that you've got special Places which used to be a 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.520 standalone bucket. And then you have kind of larger, big 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:23.679 scale their nesting pots. Sure, yeah, yeah, that's exactly. And 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.280 and then and then after that you have like larger 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:26.839 things like the Clean Water Act. You know that has 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.600 implications for everybody. Um, that's a lot bigger than like 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.240 special places. And then our final one is fair Chase. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.200 And then that fair Chase bucket, you know, that's where 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:36.800 our drone kind of work comes in. That's where o 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.960 high fence work is going to come in. Um, and 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.319 kind of our illegal oh v us is under that 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.880 bucket as well. Why do you think that people have 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.400 been able to Well, I don't want to stay at 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.480 things on top of each other. So I think you 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.360 kind of explain where the buckets went. It's just like 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.080 your but but this is just the way you just 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:55.680 think in your own mind, right, I mean, this is 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.240 kind of way you guys categorize. Yeah, And we want 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.240 to make it simple for people to understand what we do. Yeah, 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.640 And so when I'm into five buckets, people start going 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.640 to sleep, right, and and so the three buckets and 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.520 the way I just explained, I think it's pretty sustinct. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.160 And so people can understand that right away, Yeah, you can. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:15.920 With the comedian Mitch Hedberg, Um, he died, but to 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.520 hear that probably the greatest American one of the greatest 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.120 American comedians ever. But he had a joke where he 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:26.160 was um talking about someone gave him, what's the drug 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.440 you taking? You have a d h D. Yeah, so 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.200 he would take riddling but he's not but he doesn't 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.160 suffer from the ailment. He would just take the solution. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.280 And he said that, um, whenever tell when someone told 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.000 him something, he'd be like, there's gotta be more to 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:45.560 that story fair enough. So no way, I like the 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.480 five buckets man because I like a long story. But 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:51.920 why do you think I want to talk about the 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.440 drone situation? Because you addressed that last night at the dinner. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.720 Oh also did um who wanted buying the float trip? 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:04.560 The float trip with you was your mom? Uh No, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:06.760 I won't make my mom pay to go hang out 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.040 with me. Um, I supposed to get you a loan 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.319 on the boat and criticize you know. It was Actually 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.600 it was a friend of mine who after he bought it, 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.800 as I'm hugging him until he whispered to me, he said, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.000 I'm gonna work that shift out of you. And so 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.559 then I told him where I wanted to go and 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.079 there's a portage and he said he's not going to 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.880 do the portage, and so that means that I'll be 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.160 working and I think we'll be going by holes and 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.400 then just he will say, like make me get out 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:33.760 of the boat and like drag it back up the 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.520 river or row it back up the river. So now 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.320 he told me last night he's gonna put like forty 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:42.079 flies in the willows. It might be an expensive trips. So, yeah, 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.080 you talked about the drone issue thirteen states of banned drones. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:46.960 Now why are people why do you think people are 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:52.000 able to coalesce around drones when they'd be reluctant to 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.720 coalesce around other uh technologies being eliminated from the hunting 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.040 tool kit? Is it because it's totally new? It's definitely 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.320 part of it, I think, you know, I mean there's 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.920 no traditional use once you get something established, you know, 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.400 like when you've got a lot of money at stake, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:08.520 but then you have a lot of people that have 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.160 already you know, like that that's the way they do business, right, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.440 and so on the drone thing, we got out in 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.160 front of that, and um, you know, there isn't like 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.480 a a drone hunting association, right like you know, I 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.960 mean they're a drone owners of the drone lobby. There's 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.960 a drone lobby, but that's more for dot com Yeah, exactly, 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:29.680 and so and so. But you know, we want to 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.320 get in front of it, you know. So there's things 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.000 like live action cameras on trees, right, and we have 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:35.680 their band here in Montana, but in a lot of 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.880 states that's okay, and like to me, that's kind of 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.640 the same thing. And you know that's already been established, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.360 and so that's a lot harder to put that back 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.440 in the box, right, And so um with the drone stuff, 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.640 you have people I mean, I think people when they 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.560 hear about that, they just can't believe that people were 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.320 starting to do that, right, So we were in a 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.280 good place when we did them. They give I don't 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:57.680 know how many years you'd have to go back, but 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.160 if you went back to the advent of trail cameras, 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:05.720 like right now, if you said, like in a national sense, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.840 no trail cameras, people would have a ship fit. Oh 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.920 yeah there Arizona from Arizona, Wisconsin. I mean just just 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.240 places where you know here is weird when they did 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.880 it that you could he had to pull them one 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.080 season started, right, which I mean that's probably really hard 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.720 to regulate. But I don't know, if you see one, 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.000 you see one, true. But I think that's the thing 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.960 with it with drones too, right, like were you know, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.040 there's all these laws about flying airplanes, you know, and 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.440 and and what you can hunt within like scouting on 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.920 an airplane. So I think it's twenty four hours, and 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.480 so we we thought about doing that with drones. But 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.480 drones are so much less invasive than an airplane. I mean, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:40.840 you can hear an airplane and you know when you're 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.680 in the woods from a long ways away. For a drone, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.160 you gotta be pretty close to it. And so um, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.200 that's why we didn't do the twenty four hour rule there. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.280 We banned him for the entire season. So some guys, 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.840 you know, if a law enforcement officer sees a guy 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.160 with a drone during hunting season, that's a pretty easy 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.280 way to do it rather than the twenty four Yeah, 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.600 like in Alaska, you got you know, there's there's a 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.280 lot of hunts you can people don't. A lot of 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:04.760 people don't realize it's there's a lot of hunts you 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.240 can fly and hunt on the same day, you know, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.880 for black tail deer and cariboo and stuff. There's some 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.040 hunts you can some huns you cannot, But now you can't. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.760 Like if you fly a drone, you don't hunt that season, right, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.760 that's it. That's it, which is a little bit surprising. 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.040 I mean, I'm glad I'd like to see it. I 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:23.360 think everybody likes to see it. But again I think 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.320 it's because it hadn't been in my mind. It just 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.320 hadn't become entrenched, like it hadn't become like a traditional 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.280 use issue. And traditions happen real quick if they do, 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:33.520 you know they do. And I think a lot of 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:35.800 those traditions that they come with money too, right, I 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.520 mean you think you just talked about trail cameras. I 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.960 mean think about the amount. Know what the dollar figure is, 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.840 but it's got to be in the high millions, right, 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.480 I mean, that's an industry now that would be taken away, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.120 and so it would be people that would fight it. 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.000 But even more I think the people that are making 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.600 those things. Yeah. Another thing that's been funny to watch 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:55.040 is two way communications. Um, I don't know. Was some 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.200 friends of mine Wisconsin, they they spend seventy of their 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.680 time texting the time looking for deer. How's that work 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.160 out for him? Well if they just text, you know. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.320 And then here in Montana, that first two way communications 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:15.080 I remember years ago, for one year you couldn't use them, 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.359 and people were pissed because people like, hey, man, I'm 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.520 out with my kids. I want to know what's going on. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.400 I hunt with my dad. He's an elderly I need 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:25.640 to know what's happening with him, and so then they 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.199 clarified the language. You can't use it to assist the 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.359 same thing in Alaska. You can't use it so you 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.240 can have it, you can't use it to assist into 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:33.960 taking a game, which I thought I wanted being a 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.600 pretty reasonable Um. I thought it wanted to being a 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.200 pretty reasonable compromise. But I know, guys, you know, guys 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.120 especially it seems like down in the Southwest, if they 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.119 can't have two way radios, ain't going hunting. You know, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.880 you get a guy at every point find an animal, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.080 nine guys watching it, one guy going after and they're 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.879 all on radios. A goddamn seal team. What do you 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.399 think of that? I don't know. I don't I mean personally, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:03.560 you know, you get into this thing all the time. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.800 I've had this conversation. I did a like a talk 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.840 two nights ago in Michigan, and the guy asked me, like, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.240 what do you think of baiting? I'm like, I think 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:16.280 if baiting is okay where you're at, great, is it legal? 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.080 You know, if it's illegal, I think you should probably 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.720 stop doing it. UM. I grew up first, second, third, fourth, fifth, 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.680 dear I killed to kill over a pile of carrots. Uh. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.479 Later I got real curious about what deer doing when 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.600 they're not eating my carrots. Um. What I learned about 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.320 deer from hunting over bait is a dea bowl like carrots. 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.040 As you get more experience, I think you start wondering 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:40.720 what they're doing when they're not eating them, and where 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.760 are they going? And how would you find them if 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.280 they're going about their natural rhythms, you know, And that's 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:51.480 just where I'm what I wound up being more interested in. Um. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:56.719 If I'm out hunting and I'm going after an animal, Uh, 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.320 it's very tempting to have information like hey, man, it left, 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.400 or a dude that got up and beded back down 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.719 again twenty yards over by that rock. It's like tempting 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.919 to have the information. But in the end, after the fact, um, 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.000 I think that it would I think that it would 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.520 diminish your memory of the animal. I think you diminish 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.520 your memory of the hunt when not growing up in Montana, Right, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:23.159 no communicator. I don't know how the loss says it, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:28.440 but you can't use communication to target animals. Or yeah, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.920 they were an assist in the taking game. The first 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:37.440 time ever hunting out of the state. I'm guiding in Idaho, 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.800 and you just make some assumptions on some rules and 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.159 typically if you assume on the side of the animal, 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:49.679 you're gonna be correct. And we're riding up the trail, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.680 got the I'm just learning. The guy ahead of me 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.200 radio cracks and it's like, hey, you guys just rode 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.280 past the ball. Oh jump off. These guys are just 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:06.359 writing into camp, you know, the clients, and you know 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:11.879 ten minutes later, dead bull. And I was, oh my god, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.560 I was just part of something highly illegal. What am 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.120 I gonna do? Like, what are you talking about? That's 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.320 how you kill hell cup here? It's totally illegal and 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.200 I don't and I just couldn't totally takes away from it. 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.280 And doesn't that prove that legality is only part of 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:32.640 your ethics. Well, it's that's tricky as hell, man. Because 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:35.240 I brought this point. A lot of guys in the 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.000 Southeast run deer with dogs that traditional use. They've done 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.920 it for a long time. If you decided you're gonna 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:42.360 you know, people in Michigan, when they see a deer 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.600 chasing dog, they shoot it. I'm saying, when they see 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.240 a dog chasing the deer, you shoot at it. So 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.840 they would act like if I said, oh, yeah, I'm 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.000 going up to Michigan, I'm gonna be running deer with 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.359 my dogs, that'd be illegal, unethical, all that kind of stuff. 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.199 In the Southeast, it's it's a traditional use practice, you know. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.480 I think, like I think that that's why the conversation 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.119 about ethics gets so sticky, because everyone's brought up in 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.000 their own area, and they're brought up to think that 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.560 that what they do is the right way of going 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.879 about things. You know, So it is. It is tricky. 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.800 It's hard to draw definites. I do have some definites, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:16.399 I think, But I think that some stuff that I 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.240 used to think is definite is tricky. Like your carrot deer, 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.040 though your ethics you thought more of that deer after 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.040 you got strictly from past the legality. It's legal for 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.760 you shoot overcarets, but your ethics led you to something else. 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.679 Your deer was worth more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it did it. 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.400 It means more. And in the end, oddly, they really 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.360 started to curtail bait use in Michigan shortly after I left, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.800 because the disease transmission, because you're bringing animals in rubbing 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.080 noses and eat and dirt that's infected with their own saliva, 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:47.880 and you know, and you wind up having a much 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:51.160 higher chance of disease transmission. So they started regulating when 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:52.760 you put it out, how much you put it out. Now, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.440 that was kind of on the tail in. So then 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:56.560 I think in that case you do wind up in 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.159 a in a thing where someone's like, it's not healthy 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.800 for the animal, you know. And another thing with technologies, 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:09.320 man uh, Eldo Leopold had deadline about well, first, who's 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:10.800 the guy? Not long ago rold A Peace like, let's 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:12.840 stop talking about ethics and fair chase and let's talk 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:17.840 about fair use or fair um fair portions. What was that? 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.760 You know what I'm talking about? Nope, he was just 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.240 saying that we're using the wrong language. His point being, 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.000 you have a well, right well. This is how Aldo 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.080 Leopold put it. You got a well full of water. 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:36.360 If you improve the pump and never improved the well, right, 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:38.159 the well is not gonna hold up as well as 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.480 it did. So we're constantly improving the pump with technology, 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:46.040 but are we improving the well. So I think an 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.399 issue like that is if you go like, yes, baiting 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.880 is in fact hazardous to our heard depletes the well, 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:57.280 improves the pump, and then through disease transmission, depletes the well. 0:22:57.640 --> 0:22:59.240 I think that then you get very firmly and do 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:01.280 an ethical issue. But if you've got a state, it's 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.320 got a lot of deer, and they found it over 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.439 the course of many decades, they've been able to manage 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.680 deer at a level they're comfortable with. And people are baiting, 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.320 and and it's how people do it. I have a 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.160 hard time condemning it. The first two bears I ever 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.960 eight were shot off bait from carp and invasive species 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:19.800 carved to be shot with our bows and frozen and 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.040 uses them bait deer to bait bears with my brothers 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:26.679 drew bear tags in Michigan. Um, I have no like, 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.000 It's just not that exciting to me to think I've 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.000 never shot a bear over bait. I've been invited to it. 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:32.920 I have no desire to do it. Just because it's 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.760 just bears eating bait isn't interesting. But I have a 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.359 hard time like acting like all I'm gonna translate that 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.200 into an ethical conundrum. You know, it's hard for people. 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.760 We think about all that land you can't you gotta 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.919 walk a fine line, dude, because you're like I always 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.040 like to clarify whent On talking to Land that I'm not, 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:59.359 um speaking for us. I don't speak for Land, which 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.159 I'm glad though you are much more eloquent than I am. Well, No, 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.000 but I don't want people to confuse what I think 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:05.679 with somehow because we're sitting here talking. I don't want 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:09.880 people to confuse my personal opinions with your official policy. No, 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:13.719 I mean we don't have an official policy on baiting. Uh. 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:17.040 I'm with you personally, I have no interest in doing it. 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.119 And you know, and I think sometimes when I hear 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.800 about baiting, it's especially around bears. It's like we have 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:25.800 better jelly donuts and they did and that's why that 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:28.399 bear came in. And that, to me is not a 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.399 skill that I want to acquire. Is knowing which like 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.239 doughnuts bring in the bears. That's just me, you know. 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.080 And um, but when you hear you know like that. 0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:38.880 I think it was in Maine, right, I think they 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.640 were talking about the banning of baiting in Maine and 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:45.399 they talk I mean, they have a large population with 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:46.920 black bears there and they need to manage them. And 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:48.800 when you talk to the fishing game, that was a 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:50.680 tool that they were using. There's no other way to 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:53.800 hunt them, as there's no other way to them. But effectively, 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:56.320 it's like when you banned dogs for lions, you're kind 0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:01.840 of banning lion hunting. Yes, right in the East, like 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.720 for instance, where I grew up, or where we first 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.600 familiarized ourselves, like any kind of hunting bears. I talked 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:13.800 about my brother's journal's bear tags. It's flat swamp, it's hemlock, 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.080 and just like older swamp, you can't see your hand 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:21.080 in front of your face. There are bears around. I 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:23.040 think in all my time running around there, I saw 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:26.080 one bear across the road. I mean, while it's got 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:30.080 extremely high densities of bears, you just don't see them. 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:31.960 So to talk about, oh, you're gonna ban baiting for 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:33.840 bears in Michigan, it's like, okay, but let's just be 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:38.640 honest what you're doing. You're banning, you're banning bear hunting effectively. Yeah. 0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:41.080 So I I advocated against the mains. I mean not 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:42.960 that I had any real saying it, but I advocated 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:45.240 against the thing in Man. So I thought that that's 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:47.040 what it was doing. I always think about what are 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:51.000 the private conversations that people have? Right, some guy reached 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:52.280 the cane to me and he's like, oh, yeah, we 0:25:52.359 --> 0:25:53.840 got up. We're doing a thing where we want to 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:58.159 ban trapping on public land in Montana. I'm like, that 0:25:58.200 --> 0:25:59.760 doesn't interest me. And they're like, oh yeah, we got 0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:02.840 a lot the hunters were with us, and were theyking Like, 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:06.520 what is the private conversation of the person. What what 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:08.600 are they when they're sitting around drinking in their house 0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:11.680 with their buddies, what are they talking about? They're talking 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:14.959 about how they want to like cut away. Yeah, well, 0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:17.119 and I mean I think on the band on public lands, 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:19.720 I mean, we do not want to do things like 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.480 that on a referendum, Like it's up to in my opinion, 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.919 it's up to the people who have the knowledge our 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.560 fishing game agencies on how like we regulate, you know, 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:31.920 in our fishing game commissions. We start doing that through 0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:34.880 about initiative, and that's where we lose at some point, right, 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:36.840 And I think what you're talking about this chipping away. 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:40.760 The woman that runs Trap Free Montana, um, I think 0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:43.359 she came actually to that thing that we had at 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:46.840 the roxy and I don't remember that, um, when you 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:49.320 were talking about I think you're doing a book signing 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:52.080 or something there. And she came and she stood up, 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.000 and then she was talking about it, and she was 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:59.040 starting with uh, with trapping, but really it was about hunting, 0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:00.920 and she was nerves us about being in the woods 0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.639 during the fall, right, And and to me, um, so 0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:07.000 it's just it's like for her, it's it's just the 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:09.000 tip of the iceberg. When you talk about trapping. There's 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:11.080 there's more that she's going after. Yeah, I believe in 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:14.800 incrementalism many I think that everything moves in incrementalism. Death 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:17.440 of a thousand cuts, right, I mean in a positive 0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:20.680 and in a negative way. I think that the gay 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:24.280 rights move has been like an increment, very incremental victory. 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:28.040 That's very incremental civil rights victory, you know. I think that, 0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:31.280 like the civil rights movement, very incremental thing. I think 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.480 the hunting is going the can go in the opposite 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:36.840 direction of being just a very incremental death. Sure, I 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:39.200 would say that on like the trapping side in particular, 0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:42.359 I think sometimes trappers their own worst enemy. And so 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:44.399 like here in Montana, we've been trying to do, you know, 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:47.840 get some mandatory trapper education, like you'd setting too close 0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:50.280 to trails and just having the knowledge about it, right, 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:52.520 Like if anybody can go out, you know it's a 0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:54.800 bob boards tomorrow and buy a trap and you know, 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:57.080 and has no knowledge besides, you know, they just bought 0:27:57.080 --> 0:28:00.760 a trap. And so you know, if bow hunting has 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:04.520 mandatory education, why shouldn't trapping have that, you know. And 0:28:04.520 --> 0:28:06.880 and so they've they've you know, they've fought that every 0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:09.040 single time the state legislature. And I think that means 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:10.840 that their own their own worst enemy, right, and so 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:14.159 that gives people more credence to talk about this banning 0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:17.080 trapping on public land, which I totally disagree with. We 0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:18.800 can see how that path gets there. I had a 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:20.880 good friend here, you know, I think he said it well. 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:22.720 He was at the bh A and he said, will 0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:24.959 continue to be able to do this as long as 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:26.919 we behave in a way that's defensible to the public. 0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:29.760 And so part of this, it's on our shoulders to 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.040 do it, whether it's take bow hunter safety or hunter 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.959 safety or maybe a trapping safety class. Definitely don't want 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:36.280 to see it go away, but we have to behave 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:38.400 in a way that's defensible to the public when they 0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:40.520 came out with hunter's safety to people bitch about it. 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.360 Uh you're forty one. Yeah, I don't. I don't think. 0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:52.719 I don't know that because it's always been contentious. Maybe 0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.560 probably because it was like at that point, probably it was. 0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:57.160 I think it was contentious when they came out with 0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:03.080 drivers in. Yeah, someone's probably what you know, Kelly and 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:04.800 talked about. You know what we're talking about, someone saying 0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:06.120 that they were afraid to be out in the woods 0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:09.360 during hunting season top a boat. If you're comfortable what 0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:12.320 you're telling me about. Remember we had a big email 0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:16.160 chain debating with you and me and Doug Dring and 0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:21.440 my brother arguing about uh, hunter recruitment. And you bring 0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:25.800 up a point about the way skiing is perceived in 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:27.960 your town and the way hunting is perceived in your 0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:31.200 town relative to hazardous risk. Do you remember this, talk 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:36.280 about that speak to that. Um, well, yeah, catch your 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:41.800 Idaho skiing is the end all be all. It is 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.760 why you're there. Everybody's a skier. That's how people love 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:51.640 to identify themselves, even if it's not true. Um, it 0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:59.360 is the only it is like the only like truly 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:03.800 acceptable form of recreation. I've I've found out there, and 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:10.760 and uh, hunting hunters get a bad rap. We're in 0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:14.600 the paper there all the time, not ever hunters speaking 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:16.880 out because for some reason it doesn't make paper, but 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:22.240 people speaking out against hunters. And I just started thinking 0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:26.240 of how interesting it was that, um, skiing, you have 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:30.160 you know, multiple just I mean just between Montana and 0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:36.480 Idaho and Wyoming, you have multiple deaths a year and 0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:40.400 people are, oh, that's just skiing. Yea. Also one dudes 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:42.360 kicked down an avalanche on other dudes. It's not you're 0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:47.240 not even killing yourself exactly. Now, imagine that happening in 0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:51.719 the hunting community. It would be would be in a major, 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:54.560 major fight. Well yea, every year you had two or 0:30:54.600 --> 0:31:00.240 three gunshot death during hunting season. Yeah, and and some 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:04.760 of these you know avalanche fatalities there people doing just 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.840 mining their own business and uh an avalanche comes down 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:13.560 and wipes them out. I'd be like a hunter, you know, 0:31:13.880 --> 0:31:17.960 picking off a hiker. Yeah, let's not perceived that way. 0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:20.720 Not perceived that way. And I just why is that 0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:23.280 it's all a recreation for you to be out in 0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:32.960 the woods. Yeah, come on, um, thanksky, no problem. Let's 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:37.920 go back to bucket number one. Access. Yeah, yeah, give 0:31:37.920 --> 0:31:40.200 me the lowdown on that. So, I mean, I think 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:43.040 the biggest thing under access and opportunity is this, uh, 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:47.600 this whole public lands kind of divest your movement that 0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:52.000 seems to be um very prevalent right now. And you 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:55.400 know those folks that want to steal our heritage and 0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:58.520 take it for their own. I think that is like that, 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:01.240 it's the issue. We can't talk about any other things 0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:03.760 if we get that one wrong. Well, tell me this 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:07.680 because this is this fine is helpful. Put yourself in 0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:11.680 the place of a very smart person. That's gonna be 0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:15.200 I don't know, hear me out try land. Put yourself 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:18.480 in the place of a very smart person who's explaining 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:21.520 to me why we should divest federal lands. What would 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:25.200 they tell me? Don't spin it. I think they would 0:32:25.240 --> 0:32:30.200 tell you that, uh that local control is better because why, 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:33.680 I say. I would then say, why because it's their 0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:39.320 backyard and they know it's best for that land. Okay, 0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:41.160 that's what I think. That's what they would say. I 0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:46.000 think definitely you would get though, Um, I mean, I 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:48.840 don't know anything in this movement that's not based on 0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:52.760 extractive resources, And I think the core of it would 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:56.800 be in the argument would be our communities exist because 0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.880 we can extract resources from these federal properties. The federal 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:03.280 them is inefficient at allowing us to restract to extract 0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:05.600 resources from these properties in the way that we think 0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:09.440 we should extract resources and we want to be able 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:12.480 to more efficiently take the resources out to make more 0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:16.160 money on them because by proximity, by proximity, we have 0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.840 more of a right to that than other owners who 0:33:19.920 --> 0:33:22.680 are not living in close There's. I think there's two issues. 0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:26.360 They believe that proximity uh allows them more rights to 0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:30.719 those resources, and they also believe that distance meaning federal 0:33:31.000 --> 0:33:34.720 federal lands managers who are distanced geographically from their lands 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:38.360 don't know best how to take which tree, or which mine, 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:42.040 or which gas well or whatever it is. And so um, yes, 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:44.960 it's more there's because they're closer to it. But also 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:48.760 just generally speaking, federal government, you know, isn't perceived as 0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:52.360 the most efficient uh extractor of those resources, and and 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:55.280 the laws that are adhered to by the Feds, that 0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:57.040 have to be adhered to by the Feds tend to 0:33:57.080 --> 0:33:59.960 slow down, um those sorts of decisions with good reason. 0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:07.520 And you know, um is that sixty character Twitter thing 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:09.960 where it's like, well, who can manage it best? Somebody 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.799 in d C or somebody locally. It's not do not 0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:19.200 have to know more? Yeah, it's not like the office 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:22.640 there in d C flies somebody out for one day, 0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:25.359 he says, hey, can we cut down this timber? Well, 0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.080 I don't know. Better fly back to d C and 0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:32.040 talk it over with the boys. Yeah, there's regional offices everywhere, 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:37.080 district offices, the close one. I mean, it's it's crazy. 0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:39.920 There are the people taking under a mandate to do 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:43.560 a lot more than make there they're opera under a 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:47.680 mandate to do a lot more than make a temporary 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:51.000 amount of money for a said individual. Well that I 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:53.680 think you hit on it. And the one sixty characters 0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.319 that we live in a bumper sticker world. You know, 0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:58.040 if you can't boil it down to something that can 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:00.200 fit on a bumper sticker and piss somebody off, that's 0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:03.880 just not cool. And so these these things that are complex, um, 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.560 like federal lance management, it's a complex thing. You have 0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:11.399 to satisfy all these constituencies. Um, nobody's gonna get their way. Well, 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:15.120 there are people now who want their way a hundred 0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:17.719 percent and don't understand the complexities of it. My brother 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:19.960 just made a bumper sticker that says, I heart gluten. 0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:26.880 He just feels bad for gluten. I I can totally 0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:32.560 see Matt doing that. But yeah, I think, yeah, there is. 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:34.279 I don't know why where did it come from? The 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:37.279 reluctance to grapple with complex issues we used I mean, 0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:40.560 I really believe the internet and frankly, you know, the 0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:43.399 twenty four hour news cycle plays into this. We used 0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:45.719 to sit around. Frankly, people used to sit around with 0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:48.000 beers and coffee and do what we're doing. Now you 0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:50.320 get on your computer and send a flamer to somebody, 0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.239 You get on Facebook and piss somebody off you. You know, 0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:58.319 there's no appreciation, or there's insignificant appreciation for the complexities 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.520 and different and other people's outlooks and working together. So 0:36:01.600 --> 0:36:03.719 now go back into yourselves. Now you don't have to 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:06.960 play the role the really smart guy who wants who 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:11.240 wants to privatize federal lands or privatize public lands or 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:15.600 whatever or have uh what's the word unfettered? Who wants 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:20.239 unfettered access with no what I would oftentimes see as 0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:23.680 unfettered access with no real eye towards long term future. 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:26.640 And you can kind of see that at play when 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:30.600 you watch energy prices. When when like mineral or energy 0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:33.680 prices go up, people get really interested in something, they 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:36.719 go down, their interest seems to fade, and so you're like, 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:38.319 so you were kind of looking at this as a 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:41.160 very temporary thing. You know, it couldn't even hold up 0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:44.160 through a market cycle. But go back to your regular self. 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:48.080 That's that's me, not land talking, and tell me sell 0:36:48.120 --> 0:36:53.640 me against divester of public lands. M I think the 0:36:54.040 --> 0:36:57.400 I meant, I mean this is like a divester. I 0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:02.000 always add a syllable for some reason. This is what 0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:05.040 is uniquely American, right, I mean, it's what separates up 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.160 from the entire world, that these lands belong to the 0:37:08.200 --> 0:37:11.440 people instead of the short term use. We have this 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:14.600 conservation ethic which is for future generations. And so it 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:18.759 doesn't mean no use, doesn't mean no extractiveness, but it 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.360 means it has to balance that for future generations and 0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:24.800 also other uses. And so you know, you you divest 0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:28.560 those either to the states or to individuals, and we 0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:34.120 lose that intrinsic value that I think is uh the 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.880 main piece of fabric that we weaves all across this 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:41.640 country that is truly American. And and you know, the 0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:45.479 the idea that the States can you know, manage this better, 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:51.839 there's been no study that's been done that says that's 0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:54.600 the truth. And you know, Utah came close and that's 0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:57.400 when oil you know, it was at a real, real high, 0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.279 high level and it was like a hundred over hundred 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:03.560 dollars of barrel and then it dropped out just like 0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:06.080 you just talked about, right, And so now all those 0:38:06.080 --> 0:38:07.839 plans that they had, even though they were short term 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.719 extraction like go crazy and do it, those an't even 0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:13.799 pencil out now. And so they cannot manage those lands. 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:15.759 And so they'd have a couple of different options. You know. 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:18.960 You you you either extract that very quickly and get a 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:23.360 little short time money U or um you raise taxes. 0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:25.160 When was the last time you heard a politician get 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:27.560 away with raising taxes like that's going to be their platform. 0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:31.600 Nobody does that, right and or at the very end 0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:33.200 of that as they sell it. And I think you 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:36.520 know Ryan is right that there's there's there's the industry 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:38.440 that is behind this. The extract of industry. I think 0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:41.600 that's very real. But there's also folks. I mean, look 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:43.920 at the Wilkes brothers and what they've done in Montana 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:45.959 here in the last ten years. They're now the number 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:49.520 one landowner here in Montana. They're trying to, um, you know, 0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:53.520 take a public elk herd in the dirty hills for 0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:57.799 their own. They're salivating watching this all happen and ready 0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:00.240 to buy all their bits and pieces of a Marya. 0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:02.399 And you know, they're billionaires and they got the money. 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.480 And it's not just them that I'm worrying about. It's 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.239 the you know, foreign entities like the Chinese. I mean, 0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:11.399 the Chinese are buying places all over the world right now. 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:14.920 And if they owned our public lands and our clean water, 0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:18.120 I think about how crazy that would be. Oh, they 0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:20.440 do a great job environmentally in their own country, right, 0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:24.480 you know, I would say it's beautiful clouds, those beautiful 0:39:24.480 --> 0:39:29.800 clouds they made over all their cities. It's nice, you know. Uh. 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.680 Some folks on the side of this argument, the pro 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:36.360 side of the best. Sure, sorry, that's like uh adding 0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:39.239 a syllable there, But um, you know, they believe in 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.640 American exceptionalism. They often tout American exceptionalism and all sorts 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:46.560 of foreign policy issues and governmental issues and constitutional issues. 0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:49.400 And as far as I'm concerned, you know, one of 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.520 the top two, after our form of government, examples of 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:55.000 American exceptionalism is what we have in our public lands. 0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:58.080 I don't think you can be a fan of American 0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:01.600 exceptionalism and then want to ruin And the number two 0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:04.360 example in my opinion of what American exceptionalism is, we 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.800 have this thing that every citizen in the United States 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:10.560 has deed, as you said last night, has deed to 0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:13.680 these millions of acres. There isn't no other group of 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:16.800 people on the planets ever tried this. Yeah, that was 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.560 one of the frustrating things with me about the wildlife 0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:22.920 refuge takeover in Oregon is the way it draped itself 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:27.080 in the American flag. In in a very literal way, 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:29.440 I mean literally like draping itself in the American flag. 0:40:30.360 --> 0:40:32.520 And we're looking at it thinking, but what aspect of 0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:34.960 America are you talking about? It is not the rule 0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:37.640 of law, not the part of America where we don't 0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:42.400 tolerate pointing weapons at peace officers and civil servants. Not 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:45.200 the part of America we don't terrorize the populace, Like 0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.239 what aspect of America do you mean? You know, it 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:50.359 was just very puzzling to me to see, like what 0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:54.440 part of America were you promoting? You know, yeah, what 0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:56.439 do you think would have happened? Like an ices flag 0:40:56.480 --> 0:40:59.800 would bab be more? Well, but what with those guys? 0:40:59.840 --> 0:41:02.440 What do you think would have happened if they were 0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:06.160 of a different religion and they occupied a federal facility 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:11.520 in some city with uh, you know, armed and threatening 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:15.239 federal officers, You think we'd let that go on days? 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:19.879 They would have got dusted up pretty quick. It was, Yeah, 0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:22.480 it was pasive. Like I just don't understand that interpretation 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:27.439 of America that America is that doesn't admire rule of law. 0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:29.399 I think one of the things that makes as great 0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:32.759 is like we don't in most cases, we don't need 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:35.600 vigilantism because we have a way to address the government. 0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:39.160 You know, I'm actually doing it right now. I'm in 0:41:39.200 --> 0:41:42.600 the appeals process fighting the federal government on something I'm 0:41:42.600 --> 0:41:46.240 not in trouble. Your rebel rouser, Yeah, me and Yanni, 0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:49.120 Well that's what you know. You look at those guys, 0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:53.680 don't get me invitance, They say, they're you know, they're 0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:56.799 they say they're they want to adhere to the Constitution, 0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:59.040 But I mean to your points, Steve, for them to 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:01.360 believe in what they do, they have to first twist 0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:03.879 the hell out of the Constitution so that they can 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:06.319 read it upside down her sideways in a way that 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:10.319 nobody else reads it, including every constitutional attorney that's ever 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:12.200 looked at it. So once you twist it, then you 0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:15.200 can find this odd way to defend it and wrap 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.799 yourself in a flag that we don't recognize. Did you 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:22.560 guys see the German gale that came by the food 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:31.360 contest yesterday? It was amazing. She'd exchange student or something. Well, 0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:32.600 I don't want to talk to me out here. Think 0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:37.080 it just pressed me off too much. The She's like, 0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:40.319 what are you guys doing? Is this a festival? Said, well, 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:44.680 it's a public lands thing. What are public lands? The 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:47.680 stuff you don't have? Yeah, it was amazing. All of 0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:50.600 a sudden, I was like, oh, I'm representing the United 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:55.640 States first of Germany was like I better get this right. 0:42:56.440 --> 0:43:00.280 All all I could think about was article I recently 0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:03.480 read about you know, going out and meeting your gamekeeper 0:43:04.600 --> 0:43:08.920 and paying your trespass fee because everything's private, and like, 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:13.719 so you want to take those private lands, like, no, 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:16.840 they're they're public. You can use them. Do you pay taxes? 0:43:16.840 --> 0:43:20.480 Here's like no, I pay taxes in Germany said oh 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:23.920 well you can still use these lands and it was 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:26.720 very cool. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know you were engaged 0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:34.319 in diplomacy last night. That's a big day, the ambassador. Um. 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:35.920 I hear a lot of times people when you're having 0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:41.680 this discussion, Like someone mentioneds recently how the tracing back 0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:48.239 public lands use back to pioneer days? Um? How? And 0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:49.920 I've done it too to say, like, oh, you think 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:51.960 of a guy like Daniel Boone. You know he came 0:43:52.040 --> 0:43:56.640 from British or you know, English to sin and in England, 0:43:57.040 --> 0:43:58.800 if you get caught on someone's private land, you know 0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:01.359 they would set traps for you and poison you and 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:02.920 shoot you and you could be hung for it. To 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:07.800 be hunting on someone else's property. Um, but when those 0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:13.799 guys came here, they were trespassing in many respects, Like 0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:17.400 Daniel Boone was often hunting on ground claimed by the 0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:22.279 British in an enormous amount of friction there claimed by 0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:25.719 indigenous groups. You know there was a muddy picture back then. 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:28.680 I think the only the idea of like sort of 0:44:28.760 --> 0:44:33.360 what we're talking about when we talk about wildlife in 0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:36.279 the public trust and public trust lands is something that 0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:41.320 is not new, but very much you know, a nineteenth 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:46.440 and twentieth century creation. It's an experiment, right, I mean, 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:50.279 it's it's such a new thing, um that that we 0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:52.720 don't know. I don't think we totally know the value 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:55.120 of it yet, right, I mean, I think when you 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:59.000 were talking last night, um, you know, it's just having 0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:02.600 it there has this in intrinsic value and I don't 0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:04.680 think we fully realized what that is yet because it's 0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:06.799 such a I mean, the history in this country is 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:09.120 so young, and particularly the public land history is so 0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:12.279 young that I don't think we understand the breadth of 0:45:12.280 --> 0:45:14.520 what that means to us yet. No, it comes gradually 0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:17.680 because now we've all settled in I mean, both sides 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:20.600 of the aisle have settled in that. Roosevelt was a 0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:24.920 was a you know, had incredible foresight and was a 0:45:24.920 --> 0:45:28.520 great hero. He had to do. He had a twist 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:30.760 lot of arms and do a lot of shady dealings 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:34.360 to create the national force that he created. Yeah, the 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:38.560 Midnight Force. Yea, so he was really pissing people off. 0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:42.040 Now we're like, man, what a visionary. I mean William Clark, 0:45:42.120 --> 0:45:44.719 you know, one of the Copper Kings, was senator at 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.000 that time in Montana when he set it aside. I mean, 0:45:47.000 --> 0:45:49.040 this is a guy that was hanging out a hundred 0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:52.000 dollar bills on the Senate floor to get votes. He 0:45:52.040 --> 0:45:55.240 became a senator in Montana and he fought this because 0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:58.680 they wanted to do nothing but rape and pillage. And 0:45:58.719 --> 0:46:02.480 so it's not like, you know, everybody with this idea, 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.359 they're like, oh, that's awesome, good idea. No, people, now 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:07.279 it's like what you know, what a tremendous you look 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.920 at like, yo, Samity. It's now hit where we widely 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:14.480 regarded as being a great move Yellowstone. At the time, 0:46:14.520 --> 0:46:16.480 someone could have made a pretty good argument you could 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:19.040 draw a lot of money, and you still could draw 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:20.640 a lot of money out of yell Stone. But it's 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:24.480 becoming our minds now it's like, wow, we're visionaries. There 0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:26.600 was the argument. Yeah, it was contentious at the time. 0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:28.920 I just don't think we're done having that conversation, and 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:30.880 I think things are gonna keep moving into the realm 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:33.440 of of Wow. I can't believe those guys had the 0:46:33.480 --> 0:46:37.640 foresight to have this stuff. No one else has it. 0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:41.600 I mean, these these these places that are still like 0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:44.719 they were thousands of years ago. I could become much 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:48.359 more valuable as this country it develops. Yeah, as the world, 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:51.520 as the world goes to ship we're going to be 0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:53.480 more and more like I can't believe those dudes have that. 0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:57.200 Think about how it's similar to our government. I mean, uh, 0:46:57.400 --> 0:47:00.120 lots of mistakes were made, we learned, We learned from 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:02.359 European mistakes, We learned from all sorts of mistakes and 0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.239 what mistakes we made as a as a populist, and 0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:08.000 we formed our government a constitution, a government owned by 0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:10.879 the people. Same thing happened with with land. I mean, 0:47:11.160 --> 0:47:13.399 we made all sorts of mistakes we've had, We've done 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:17.839 horrible things to indigenous people's we've but we learned through 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:19.759 trial and error, and we came up with a lamb 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:22.759 system very similar to governments owned by the people. These 0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:26.160 are two very similar things, our constitutional system of government 0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:29.600 and our public property, same same sort of thing. Most 0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:31.840 egalitarian thing on the planet as far as I'm concerned. 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:34.160 I think one of the best arguments for public lands 0:47:34.400 --> 0:47:36.719 in wild places is that we don't want to have 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:40.760 people like like, um, British people who do nature shows 0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:43.959 because they don't have any trees in any woods left 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:46.360 and then you look like like bear grills. He's I 0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:47.759 was like, holy shout, I'm in the woods. I gotta 0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:52.279 get out of here quick for something bad happens, you know. 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:56.360 And um, yeah, I think that it's like part of 0:47:56.360 --> 0:47:59.720 the American tradition to find comfort in wild places instead 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:02.239 of having to be like this adversarial relationship. You know. 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:04.959 That's why I think about it, just to limit Yeah, 0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:09.000 just because I hate those kind of nature shows. Oh 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:12.720 my god, it's an animal run. Speaking of big wild 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:15.040 places we talked with the other day. When we talked 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:16.759 to Dan, he was talking about the is it the 0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:21.520 American Prairie Project. Yeah, Are you guys in as h 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:23.560 involved in that at all or can you speak to that? Yeah, 0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:25.680 You're gonna keep twisting their arms make sure it stays 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.759 open for for yeah, I mean so, I mean what 0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:31.239 they're doing there is quite amazing, right And for those 0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:33.799 that don't know about this, it's a Central Montana they're 0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:36.840 trying to tie into the Charles m National Wildlife Refuge 0:48:36.880 --> 0:48:40.560 and the Missouri Breaks National Monument uh CMRS about one 0:48:40.560 --> 0:48:42.799 point one million acres. I think they're looking at trying 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:46.440 to pull together um property at about three million acres. 0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:51.640 And you know it's it's native Willing seller William exactly, 0:48:51.800 --> 0:48:55.960 private market for sale and nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. 0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:58.640 And so I think the American Prairie Foundation has a 0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:01.400 really long term look at this. And and so I 0:49:01.440 --> 0:49:04.960 think they're into almost a half a million acres that 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:07.960 they have that is dated plus like least Land on 0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:11.359 on on blm Land, and so their ideas to try 0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:13.160 to be able to bring all this together again they're 0:49:13.200 --> 0:49:15.600 able to buy. They do grazy they like get grazing leases, 0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:18.080 They get grazing leases, and they're turning those over so 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:20.920 that they can have those used for bison. And you know, 0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:23.319 when they get they're getting past the whole brucellosis issue, 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:25.840 which I think is pretty hilarious because you know, elk 0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:29.919 in this state carry more brucellosis the bison. But they're 0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:32.600 such an established species that we hunt and that everybody 0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:35.200 loves that nobody's going to touch him. But with a bison, 0:49:35.239 --> 0:49:37.120 old man he might have brucellosis, and so we can't 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:39.040 have any bison from you know, Yellowstone that are up 0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:41.600 here in a p R or in this this regions. 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:43.560 What they're doing is they're taking those bisons from Elk 0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:46.759 Island that have never ever you know, up in Alaska, 0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:49.239 that have never been exposed to brucellosis. And so that 0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:52.480 takes that argument away really quickly. And so now they 0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:55.920 don't have that argument. Um, it's it's more about competition 0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:58.600 for grass, which I think it's always been about. And 0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:02.880 so think that's even a debatable point. People will debate 0:50:02.920 --> 0:50:05.200 it all day long. But I don't think the argument. 0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:08.480 I don't think it's about brucelloisis and as soon as 0:50:08.520 --> 0:50:12.280 that bison eats an elk placenta, they could get brucell 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:19.359 Bison do love elk placena, don't they. I don't think 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:22.000 so calories are in No. I mean, I think that 0:50:22.080 --> 0:50:24.040 argument it doesn't hold water. It's just one of those 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:27.080 like red herrings, right, that's easily easily to talk to 0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:30.080 people about, and it's scary. Um. But again, I mean 0:50:30.120 --> 0:50:32.520 the vector there that I think they should be more 0:50:32.640 --> 0:50:35.160 worried about as Elk and you know that's never gonna like, 0:50:35.160 --> 0:50:37.000 nobody's ever gonna take that on. I don't think anyone 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.480 should be worried about. I mean that they should be 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:41.239 maybe using as their argument, not that they should be 0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:45.360 worried about. Yeah, I love and I've written about that group, 0:50:45.560 --> 0:50:48.839 and I really talked to anyone with that organization. But 0:50:48.960 --> 0:50:51.400 am I clear that they do that that that they 0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:55.800 enroll lands and block management public acts? I shot um um, 0:50:55.840 --> 0:50:58.200 I shot sharp tails on their on their property this year, 0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:01.160 and uh yeah, they're I mean, they were being very 0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:03.080 good stewards. And I would love for them, instead of 0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:04.839 doing block management to kind of get into like a 0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:07.600 long term kind of easement, like an access easeman, because 0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:10.640 I think everybody's fear is is okay, right now, you're 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:14.360 doing that, so every all these hunters are happy, but 0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:16.759 then they're gonna pull the you know, the rug out 0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:19.280 at some point. And so you know, if they truly 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:22.000 are committed to access, which I think that they are, 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:25.040 they should think about doing these long term kind of 0:51:25.120 --> 0:51:27.520 like access easements and so that that gives a lot 0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:30.520 more certainty to this whole situation. And you know what 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:32.800 I mean, I'd get behind I'd get behind their mission 0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:34.279 a lot more if I didn't have, if I didn't 0:51:34.280 --> 0:51:36.960 have similar suspicions about it. Yeah, and it's I mean, 0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:39.719 and and hunters, I think in general are suspicious kind 0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:43.040 of have a suspicious nature, right because every guy that 0:51:43.239 --> 0:51:44.879 grew up in the out of doors has to look 0:51:44.880 --> 0:51:46.279 at a lot of places he used to be able 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:48.040 to hang out or they used to be pretty good 0:51:48.080 --> 0:51:50.319 and now they're not so good that they can't hang 0:51:50.320 --> 0:51:52.400 out anymore. They're locked up or their least or whatever 0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:56.560 that said. Though, I mean there's phenomenal upland bird hunting 0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:59.800 down there. The waterfowl hunting is very short, but you know, 0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:02.320 they not much water down there, and so before it freezes, 0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:04.839 it's phenomenal. Yeah, it just gets good then it gets over. 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:07.359 And I mean, can you imagine, I mean you've you've 0:52:07.400 --> 0:52:10.960 I've never hunted bison, um, but like to be able 0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:12.719 to hunt bison in that place, and you know the 0:52:12.719 --> 0:52:16.120 bisons they had, I went out and watched them and um, 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:19.000 and I was ready to kind of you know them 0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:21.880 to be cows, you know, and like when they saw us, 0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:24.319 they come up and you know, like you stick your 0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:26.000 hand out and they eat out of your hand or something, 0:52:26.120 --> 0:52:33.000 take a selfie with them. Yeah, yeah, that's very dangerous Yellowstone. Um. 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:35.640 But when we saw them, I mean they were wild animals. 0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:37.120 As soon as we got out of the truck, they 0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:39.160 were running. And by the way, that was gorgeous to watch, 0:52:39.360 --> 0:52:41.120 you know, on the prairie, you know, heard of about 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:43.799 a hundred and fifty bison running. Was just gorgeous. But 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:46.239 I mean there is an opportunity for a true hunt 0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:48.879 there and you know down in Yellowstone coming out of there, 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:51.080 and again I haven't hunted them, and I think that's 0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:53.200 that that as all as all changed, but it's it's 0:52:53.239 --> 0:52:55.480 not quite as much of a hunt as this would be. No, 0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:58.319 I've been down watching that happened, um, and it's not 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:02.239 I mean, it's you know, yeah, I would categorize more 0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:04.120 like in the harvest category. And I don't think anyone 0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:06.719 who draws that tag thinks of it much beyond that. 0:53:06.760 --> 0:53:09.960 And I've gone down there and observe people doing it. Um. 0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:13.360 When I drew a tag in two thousand four on 0:53:13.400 --> 0:53:17.359 the Copper River area in Alaska, it's a very difficult hunt. 0:53:17.360 --> 0:53:19.240 My brother drew that tag last year and they were 0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:22.680 they blew a number of stocks. I mean, those animals 0:53:22.719 --> 0:53:24.320 just but you know that they have been there a 0:53:24.360 --> 0:53:25.880 long time, and they've been hunting a long time, and 0:53:25.880 --> 0:53:29.160 they've adapted the human pressure, and um, yeah, it becomes 0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:32.120 it becomes a very legitimate hunt, which I think is awesome. 0:53:32.360 --> 0:53:33.879 But I think the ones, yeah, I think the ones 0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:35.880 leaving the park have a hard time adjuscent to it. 0:53:35.920 --> 0:53:38.040 Elk have over you know, Elk have been pursued for 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:42.799 so long that they have a tendency to know sort 0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:45.040 of what the rules are where they happen to be 0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:46.480 hanging out, you know, and Elk can being in the 0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:48.200 park and be cool, and he leaves the park and 0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:49.880 he knows that it's a whole different game going on. 0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:52.000 I think it's gonna take more time for those animals 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:55.160 to figure it out. But yeah, I mean personally, you know, 0:53:55.200 --> 0:53:58.760 I've been admirer of that animal since of of Buffalo, 0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:02.000 since I found a skull in the Madison Mountains and 0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:04.000 um and studied up by them a lot, and I 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:07.839 think that helping that species become you know, we never 0:54:08.440 --> 0:54:15.120 we almost have biological extinction. Um now the term people 0:54:15.239 --> 0:54:20.040 uses ecological extinction, where we got a half million of 0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:23.320 the animals in North America, I think or privately owned 0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:27.719 are basically manages as a livestock, you know. And um, 0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:29.640 I think that would be one of those things hundred 0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:33.279 years from now, if we were to able to have 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:40.400 some large, publicly owned herds that Americans could interact with. UM, 0:54:40.440 --> 0:54:42.120 I think be one of those things where it became 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:45.480 like people would be surprised to hear that there were 0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:49.520 adversaries to that plan. It become the future, It become 0:54:49.560 --> 0:54:51.480 the future. El so people like really people didn't want 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:53.560 this to happen, like yeah, you know, as they didn't, 0:54:53.600 --> 0:54:57.200 But think about this. I mean, as hunters, we've played 0:54:57.239 --> 0:55:00.600 a vital role in establishing just about every game species 0:55:01.080 --> 0:55:05.239 back to wild Honnable populations in North America were only 0:55:05.280 --> 0:55:09.120 one short. The only one we haven't accomplished yet, as 0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:12.319 Pozzis would say, it was bison. And I know there 0:55:12.320 --> 0:55:15.120 can be opposition to these things sometime, but imagine a 0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:19.520 small town in eastern Montana near the only free roaming 0:55:19.560 --> 0:55:23.160 bison herd, Honnable Bison herd in the lower forty eight 0:55:23.280 --> 0:55:27.120 re established. Do you know how many hunters and sightseers 0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:29.600 and wildlife watchers and everything would flood to that town 0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:32.279 every year, it would be like a tourist trap on 0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:35.120 the edge of Grand Canyon. You get familiar with the writer, 0:55:35.520 --> 0:55:41.240 um uh, Bill Kittridge from a long time Missoula resident 0:55:41.239 --> 0:55:43.080 brop in Oregon. But he has a book called Hole 0:55:43.120 --> 0:55:45.360 in the Sky and and it's it's all about issues, 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:48.640 land management issues and environmental issues. And you know he 0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:51.520 was talking about an old version of this called Buffalo commons. 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:54.880 It's an idea that keeps coming up. But he in 0:55:54.920 --> 0:55:57.920 the end of his book he says, um, go to Jordan, 0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:00.319 Montana and talk about Buffalo comms is a very good 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:04.280 way to get your ass kicked. It's it's a contentious issue. 0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:06.960 I totally understand it. Man. I could put on like 0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:10.880 a different costume and go argue and probably somewhat effectively 0:56:11.040 --> 0:56:12.879 argue against it. It's not that I don't see where 0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:16.040 people are coming from. I understand both sides of it 0:56:16.120 --> 0:56:18.680 very well. If you go like, oh, yeah, you're you're 0:56:18.800 --> 0:56:23.960 great grandparents and your grandparents fought very hard and suffered 0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:27.880 all kinds of economic calamities and gave their hearts and 0:56:27.960 --> 0:56:33.640 souls to this idea of settling the land, tilling the land, 0:56:34.520 --> 0:56:38.560 making the desert bloom. And now we want to go 0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:42.239 and say, oh yeah, yep, but we're going in a 0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:47.440 different direction now as a society is a hurtful thing 0:56:47.480 --> 0:56:50.880 to hear. Yeah, I man, I mean, it's one of 0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:53.120 the toughest places in the world to make a living, 0:56:53.960 --> 0:56:56.799 you know. I mean, as a rancher, I mean, it's 0:56:56.920 --> 0:56:59.080 it's one of the toughest places in the entire world. 0:56:59.120 --> 0:57:04.640 And so you know, as that population was established, um 0:57:05.080 --> 0:57:10.480 and and folks came out to a prospect and you know, 0:57:10.560 --> 0:57:12.120 and and set up there kind of own flag on 0:57:12.160 --> 0:57:15.960 a piece of ground like that population has been dwindling 0:57:15.960 --> 0:57:18.680 since those people came out there, right and and and 0:57:18.880 --> 0:57:21.000 but they're tough. I mean, they're tough, and they're some 0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:22.760 of the greatest people in the world. And you can 0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:26.200 see how they've been watching kind of their populations shrink. 0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:29.520 You know. I'm in Missoula, where it's all prosperous, you know, 0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:33.120 and everything is on the up. There's their whole generations 0:57:33.120 --> 0:57:35.840 where it's been on the down. But they're so tough 0:57:35.880 --> 0:57:38.360 and they're hanging onto and and it's and I mean 0:57:38.880 --> 0:57:41.280 I respect that in a lot of ways. And and 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:43.440 so I and I definitely see where they're coming from 0:57:43.480 --> 0:57:45.680 and it's a different, you know, way for them to think. 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:48.760 And you know, I think it you can almost have 0:57:48.840 --> 0:57:50.720 both in a lot of ways to write. I mean, 0:57:50.720 --> 0:57:53.760 this big scary thing about the American Prairie Foundation, it's 0:57:53.800 --> 0:57:56.800 all willing sellers and willing buyers, right, so you can 0:57:56.840 --> 0:58:01.680 still have cattle next to license and it's whole Brucelison's 0:58:01.720 --> 0:58:04.000 issues out the door, right, And so I mean, I 0:58:04.000 --> 0:58:06.760 mean you could definitely do it, um, but you know 0:58:06.840 --> 0:58:08.720 that that population has been doing for a long time, 0:58:08.760 --> 0:58:10.160 and it's because it's a hard place to make a 0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:14.760 living in order, because because these issues are so complicated, 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:17.040 it's it's helpful, I think to try to find some 0:58:17.120 --> 0:58:20.000 kind of shorthand things. And the thing I often come 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:22.440 back to where I'm when I'm trying to find clarity 0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:26.360 on the issue, often think like like what are the lines? 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:30.919 What are my personal lines? I tend to always look 0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:33.360 at an issue, and I tend to come from the 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:38.200 angle of what's best for habitat and wildlife because everything 0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:40.520 is so complicated, right, and every issue has so many things. 0:58:40.600 --> 0:58:43.920 But that's sort of what I've decided are like my 0:58:44.080 --> 0:58:46.880 primary interest. Well, I think it is best for the country, 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:50.000 the best or future generations is to advocate on the 0:58:50.040 --> 0:58:54.200 behalf of the thing that is is most likely to suffer. 0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:57.640 And I think that wildlife and habitat as we go 0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:01.040 forward UM are going to be the things that have 0:59:01.120 --> 0:59:03.640 the greatest potential for loss. I don't worry about running 0:59:03.680 --> 0:59:06.680 out of roads. I think if we had a group, 0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:09.280 if we had a meeting this weekend and it was 0:59:09.400 --> 0:59:13.240 a group advocating on not running out of roads, I 0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:15.320 don't know how many people would show up for it 0:59:15.640 --> 0:59:19.400 and donate money. It's just I don't think we're going 0:59:19.480 --> 0:59:21.000 to run out of roads. I don't think we're gonna 0:59:21.040 --> 0:59:24.520 run out of concrete, you know, like to save the 0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:32.760 pavement foundation. UM, it's not going to inspire I think. Yeah, 0:59:32.840 --> 0:59:34.919 it's just like there's some stuff that if you look 0:59:34.960 --> 0:59:37.640 at what's happening around the world, it's just there's things 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:40.080 that are getting lost at a rapid rate. And we're 0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:44.560 in a good position to find a way to coexist 0:59:45.320 --> 0:59:48.440 in an economic you know, in an economically feasible way 0:59:48.480 --> 0:59:51.960 to have prosperity and coexist with wildlife in a way 0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:54.520 that hasn't been done. I think, you know, using your 0:59:55.720 --> 0:59:59.560 UM Pavement Association of America or whatever you know it 0:59:59.600 --> 1:00:02.800 would be the advocacy group. Is that on the flip 1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:05.440 side of that is that you can you can continue 1:00:05.440 --> 1:00:06.880 to make roads. Like you said, we're not worried about 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:08.520 running out of roads because we can continue to make 1:00:08.560 --> 1:00:10.959 and make and make more roads. We're not making any 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:13.040 more of this bad country, right, We're not making any 1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:15.920 more of this pristine wild that fishing wild, that habitat. 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:19.360 And so that's why I think it's it's and that's 1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:23.320 like that second bucket, right is this is it protecting 1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:26.680 special places? And there's Since we're not making any more 1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:28.560 of it, let's make sure that we keep that stuff 1:00:28.600 --> 1:00:30.680 the way it is right now. Yeah, you never go 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:32.880 to your friends. He just bought some property and he's like, yeah, 1:00:32.880 --> 1:00:36.320 I'm gonna put some wilderness in over here, and my 1:00:36.440 --> 1:00:39.640 hotels going over here, right like you know, I mean, 1:00:39.760 --> 1:00:42.720 I think another good examples, you know, is wetlands. You know, 1:00:42.880 --> 1:00:46.520 all these wetlands that are drained um and then people 1:00:46.560 --> 1:00:49.920 try to make them again. We can't even come close 1:00:50.000 --> 1:00:51.720 to making them again, you know. I mean, you can 1:00:51.760 --> 1:00:53.320 kind of have a semblance of a little bit of 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:55.960 water in there, but the complexity of those wetlands and 1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:59.000 all the insects and the plant community is in there. 1:00:59.000 --> 1:01:01.080 You cannot replicate it, you know, I mean, as smart 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:04.439 as we are, as much as I you know, love 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:08.480 our ingenuity, we haven't figured that out and we never 1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:11.400 will because that happened over you know, Eon and how 1:01:11.440 --> 1:01:14.680 that was developed. Funny is that funny case? Studying Phoenix? 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:17.320 They made artificial wetlands, but it got destroyed by beavers? 1:01:20.400 --> 1:01:28.919 For real? Alright, is probably be good to take some questions? Oh, yeah, 1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:32.320 we're gonna do questions. Yeah, Land lead the question thing? Ryan, 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:35.400 all right, is there any questions from the crowd? And 1:01:35.400 --> 1:01:37.560 I think we'll have to use this other microphone. Is 1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:39.840 there any questions from the crowd, Just restate the question. Oh, 1:01:39.880 --> 1:01:43.240 we can do that. It's good. Any questions? Didn't that 1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:48.960 I didn't invent that. He's done this before, Josh Kins. 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:56.760 You we're at a campaign here. The candidates out there, 1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:01.800 they probs, can they not look at Mount rush for? 1:02:02.000 --> 1:02:06.000 Where Pedo Rosel's on? The four presidents selected do on 1:02:06.080 --> 1:02:08.880 Mount Rush for? And then they're up there for Racus 1:02:08.840 --> 1:02:11.640 saying I want to do something completely opposed to him, 1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:16.920 his most powerful latencies talk to the mapulating Oh yeah, 1:02:17.560 --> 1:02:20.600 so and so I'm sure he's probably could be on 1:02:20.600 --> 1:02:23.800 alt Rushmo left Field had a good face because he's 1:02:23.840 --> 1:02:28.240 in direct opposition like Theodore Rosemo. No, I think they'll 1:02:28.240 --> 1:02:30.800 have to chisel down Roosevelt and put up because you're 1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:32.720 not gonna put him next to the guy. You have 1:02:32.760 --> 1:02:34.680 to chisel him down and put up a new phase 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:40.439 on Well. I mean, I'll hit this without tangentially, I'll 1:02:40.520 --> 1:02:44.640 hit it. So the question is basically, I think, um, 1:02:44.640 --> 1:02:48.200 how can politicians now claim to be claimed to carry 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:53.320 the mantle of Roosevelt and be anti everything Roosevelt ever did? Um, 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:55.320 I would say, it's kind of what Josh is asking. 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.240 I think our problem with Sportsman and as advocates for 1:02:59.320 --> 1:03:04.680 habitat is that, through whatever political um nefariousness has gone on, 1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:06.880 we've allowed our issue to become one of these partisan 1:03:06.920 --> 1:03:08.920 footballs where it can only be kicked around on one 1:03:08.920 --> 1:03:11.600 side of the island, not the other. And um, you know, 1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:17.400 if you go back fifteen years, twenty years, conservation, lands management, 1:03:17.600 --> 1:03:21.480 environmental policy, these are debated, but they weren't partisan issues. 1:03:21.560 --> 1:03:25.120 Nobody was against clean water fifteen years ago. Nobody was 1:03:25.160 --> 1:03:27.400 against public land. You couldn't speak. I mean, could you 1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:31.920 imagine fifteen years ago presidential candidates loudly advocating in the 1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:35.560 Western United States to divest ourselves of federal land. They'd 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:37.320 have been run out on a rail tardan feathered and 1:03:37.320 --> 1:03:41.959 it was e p as a Nixon policy. Um So 1:03:42.480 --> 1:03:43.960 I think what we have to do, and what I 1:03:43.960 --> 1:03:47.000 think groups like v h A do. We're pulling this 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:49.439 back to the center where it's no longer a partisan thing. 1:03:50.120 --> 1:03:52.480 Democrats are for it, Republicans are for it, and it's 1:03:52.520 --> 1:03:55.040 because it's a good idea. And I believe that most 1:03:55.040 --> 1:03:57.320 of these people in their heart, they know it's a 1:03:57.320 --> 1:04:00.800 good idea, but they're in the business of playing political advantage. 1:04:01.080 --> 1:04:03.400 It's not about doing the right thing. It's about playing 1:04:03.400 --> 1:04:08.520 political advantage and getting reelected and getting big pack contributions. 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:10.200 We got to get it back to where it's doing 1:04:10.240 --> 1:04:12.000 the right thing, and that's that's what we're trying to do. 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:14.200 We're not one side or the other. We're pulling it 1:04:14.240 --> 1:04:19.439 back to the middle. So everybody's for it right up front? 1:04:20.680 --> 1:04:22.840 What for you? A little bit of devil's advocacy here 1:04:22.840 --> 1:04:25.360 and means not necessarily might assas. But some of the 1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:28.480 folks who are less interested in the back country and 1:04:28.600 --> 1:04:31.919 more interested in the extraction might take the argument back 1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:34.360 and say, well, you know what, America was never populated. 1:04:34.360 --> 1:04:36.000 Would you want to protect the whole thing? Would you 1:04:36.040 --> 1:04:38.880 never want to let anybody live here? And do you 1:04:38.920 --> 1:04:44.800 miss the animals who were extincted? Yes? Yeah. If I 1:04:44.800 --> 1:04:48.000 could get a mammoth tag tomorrow, I'm all over it. Yeah. So, 1:04:48.120 --> 1:04:55.360 so no doubt when you restrict the march of industrialization somewhere, 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:58.280 does that not full fact people who are not as 1:04:58.320 --> 1:05:00.320 wealthy as we are. And I say, every funny in 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:02.320 this room, is it very wealthy to even be here? 1:05:02.400 --> 1:05:04.760 Anybody who goes to the background of the hunt, regardless 1:05:04.760 --> 1:05:07.440 of what you can see your reconolicets, is very wealthy. 1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:09.720 And the argument give it many times is that when 1:05:09.760 --> 1:05:12.120 you want to spress carbon the nations where you want 1:05:12.120 --> 1:05:13.880 to preserve too much background doing so, And it's a 1:05:13.880 --> 1:05:15.960 bunch of rich guys. Whether you feel like you're the 1:05:16.040 --> 1:05:18.720 rich guys hold the land for everyone, it's a bunch 1:05:18.720 --> 1:05:21.640 of rich guys trying to hold back other people in industrialization. 1:05:22.320 --> 1:05:25.040 And so that's one of the arguments here. And I 1:05:25.040 --> 1:05:27.600 have fred progress that us not my advocation, but what 1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:31.200 do you say land restated? So I think the question, 1:05:31.440 --> 1:05:36.240 like the restated for me is is that there's this uh, 1:05:36.360 --> 1:05:40.080 this rich elite. They're trying to protect us from ourselves. 1:05:40.400 --> 1:05:42.320 Is that fair? And and and and trying to and 1:05:42.600 --> 1:05:46.720 say that these these these lands are only they're only 1:05:47.680 --> 1:05:49.360 do they want to be set aside for the rich 1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:51.439 early and not used by anybody else? Is that fair? 1:05:51.920 --> 1:05:53.600 Very few number of people? You look at, how many 1:05:53.680 --> 1:05:55.880 people really going to the backup? You about our owners, 1:05:56.200 --> 1:05:58.640 the stuff on our back. We want the government to 1:05:58.880 --> 1:06:02.680 preserve this for us, not that other people maybe have 1:06:02.720 --> 1:06:06.040 their rayed standard of living, better medical cares on. But 1:06:06.240 --> 1:06:10.640 that's majority of people do not necessarily made direct life, 1:06:10.920 --> 1:06:14.439 so that direct benefits. So you're so, I think, because 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.040 because I'm what's probably gonna happen is no one's gonna 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:19.640 hear that, and we're gonna accid like so I'm trying 1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:22.320 to find a way. Yeah, that that's great, but everyone 1:06:22.360 --> 1:06:24.080 else ask a question has to be like a tight 1:06:24.160 --> 1:06:27.560 clean question, but not that that's not tight and clean, 1:06:27.640 --> 1:06:32.040 but it's gonna be hard to follow. So a gentleman, 1:06:32.040 --> 1:06:36.080 that's a two pronged questions just Devil's advocate. He's stating 1:06:36.320 --> 1:06:40.480 people who are into uh, saving animals, preserving wild places, 1:06:40.640 --> 1:06:42.520 if they went back in time, would they have said, 1:06:42.520 --> 1:06:45.120 no one can come into America because it's all wilderness 1:06:45.120 --> 1:06:47.360 and we don't want to lose any wilderness. And if 1:06:47.400 --> 1:06:50.560 you want to save buffalo, does that mean we should 1:06:50.600 --> 1:06:55.280 save the short faced bear in the Willia mammoth? Um, 1:06:55.400 --> 1:06:58.720 let's talk about that part first. It's like, I don't 1:06:58.720 --> 1:07:01.960 know if people from outer space came and lived here, 1:07:02.000 --> 1:07:04.680 would they be covered under civil rights protections? I just 1:07:04.760 --> 1:07:10.760 don't know. It's so um. It's just something that it's 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:14.600 a fun thing to juggle mentally. I don't know how 1:07:14.640 --> 1:07:18.600 it really um. I don't know how it really helps 1:07:18.680 --> 1:07:20.520 us to ask that question, because it's the kind of 1:07:20.520 --> 1:07:23.360 thing where you go to someone and they say, I 1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:26.000 believe in clean water, and then they go, oh, yeah, 1:07:26.080 --> 1:07:30.120 but you use dish detergent. You're a hypocrite, so nothing 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:33.920 you say matters. UM. I can't speak to it on 1:07:34.000 --> 1:07:37.400 a very personal level. I wish Wily mammoth hadn't gone extinct. 1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:39.800 I have a wily mammoth tooth. I wish the whole 1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:46.280 thing was still there with its tooth in it. Um. Uh, yeah, 1:07:46.600 --> 1:07:49.280 I don't know. It's just like it's too revised, it's 1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:51.880 too revisionists for me to even grapple with. And I 1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:53.280 just sort of tend to look at it like, where 1:07:53.280 --> 1:07:55.960 are we now? What's going on in the world. I 1:07:56.040 --> 1:07:59.120 think that whatever definition we were to arrive at and 1:07:59.160 --> 1:08:02.560 how we define and wilderness, how we define wild places. 1:08:02.600 --> 1:08:06.200 In my mind, um, if we got a giant panel 1:08:06.560 --> 1:08:09.880 of interested stakeholders together and came up with a working 1:08:10.040 --> 1:08:13.640 version of what is a wild place and we agreed 1:08:13.720 --> 1:08:16.920 on that nationally, and then we just said, do we 1:08:16.960 --> 1:08:19.759 want more of this stuff or less of it? However 1:08:19.760 --> 1:08:21.559 we define it, I would say I'd like to have 1:08:21.600 --> 1:08:25.560 a little more. The second part of the question is, 1:08:25.560 --> 1:08:28.679 isn't this all just a bunch of rich recreationalists trying 1:08:28.720 --> 1:08:31.320 to get the government to curtail people's ability to make 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:36.639 a living so that we have a fun playground. It's 1:08:36.640 --> 1:08:39.960 a great question, Um, that one I think is worth 1:08:40.120 --> 1:08:43.000 wrestling with. I think that one of the big things 1:08:43.040 --> 1:08:46.120 about wild lands advocacy and wildlife advocacy is we don't 1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:49.040 really know what we have yet, and that there are 1:08:49.040 --> 1:08:50.960 a lot of activities that can occur on it that 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:57.320 will not diminish it, including some extraction extractive industries, including 1:08:57.400 --> 1:09:01.639 very light footprint things. Um, I don't look at wilderness 1:09:01.720 --> 1:09:04.880 is being defined by people can't go there. Hell's You know, 1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:07.559 you have the Hell's Canyon wilderness. It has a wonderful 1:09:07.600 --> 1:09:10.280 avenue through it in the form of the Snake River. 1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:14.639 It's very accessible. People can go and experience that level 1:09:14.720 --> 1:09:17.120 of wilderness. I think there are many cases where people can. 1:09:17.439 --> 1:09:19.519 I just don't think that it has minute to minute 1:09:19.560 --> 1:09:22.599 be able to justify its existence based on what's happening 1:09:22.600 --> 1:09:25.200 there right now. I'll say this too, I think a 1:09:25.240 --> 1:09:28.080 lot of a lot of the beauty of the public 1:09:28.160 --> 1:09:32.439 lands is an aspirational American kind of thing. I don't 1:09:32.439 --> 1:09:34.600 get to Alaska there as much as I'd like. I 1:09:34.640 --> 1:09:36.679 wish I was up there, you know, every other week. 1:09:36.880 --> 1:09:39.120 Even if I got there only one time in my life. Hell, 1:09:39.240 --> 1:09:42.600 even if I never got there, the aspirational nature of 1:09:42.800 --> 1:09:45.559 being there me dreaming about it is worth something to me. 1:09:46.040 --> 1:09:48.200 A single mom in Chicago. She may never get to 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:50.519 Glacier Park, she may never get to the Badger Tombad 1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:53.720 or the Flathead National forest, but it's an aspirational thing. 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:56.720 She can go, you can dream about it. That aspiration, 1:09:56.840 --> 1:09:59.640 that and that sort of aspirational stuff is driven Americans 1:09:59.680 --> 1:10:03.800 for you know, over two centuries. And if you remove that, 1:10:04.040 --> 1:10:06.519 even the ability to do it, the aspiration goes with 1:10:06.560 --> 1:10:09.560 it is gone. So just because I would say to 1:10:09.560 --> 1:10:12.320 to a single mom who might say that it's not 1:10:12.400 --> 1:10:14.439 just for Yeah, we're using it a lot, maybe we 1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:16.439 use it more than everybody else, but it's there for 1:10:16.560 --> 1:10:18.599 everybody to use if you want to. You can aspire 1:10:18.640 --> 1:10:21.519 to do it because it's there. There's some inspirational, soulful 1:10:21.560 --> 1:10:23.600 thing of it just existing, so you can do it. 1:10:23.600 --> 1:10:25.439 You can dream about it. But if someone came to 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:29.599 me and said I'm gonna make it, if someone came 1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:32.479 to me, like like God came down and said to me, 1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:35.360 I'm gonna make a deal with you. I'm either gonna 1:10:35.400 --> 1:10:43.000 destroy the boundary waters or you and any child you 1:10:43.080 --> 1:10:45.599 ever have and any children that ever come from any 1:10:45.680 --> 1:10:50.000 children you will ever have, can't go there. I would say, 1:10:50.600 --> 1:10:55.240 we'll step back. So I don't think that it's always 1:10:55.240 --> 1:10:57.320 a highly personal thing. Do I like to go there? Yeah? 1:10:57.280 --> 1:10:59.439 It does me going into these places affect them in 1:10:59.479 --> 1:11:01.880 a long term negative weight. No, if I had to 1:11:01.920 --> 1:11:04.559 decide between my access and its existence, what would I 1:11:04.560 --> 1:11:07.599 go with? I would go with its its existence. There 1:11:07.600 --> 1:11:10.879 are many places I will never go. I just probably 1:11:10.920 --> 1:11:12.600 won't get to all of them. Does that mean I 1:11:12.680 --> 1:11:17.280 have antipathy towards their well being? I think it goes 1:11:17.320 --> 1:11:20.759 beyond the personal well I want to I'm gonna address 1:11:20.920 --> 1:11:22.960 like give been an answer of some might you know 1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:27.559 might ask him this, um, it's now being presented as this. 1:11:27.920 --> 1:11:30.720 I think the genesis of the question is that, well, 1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:33.320 you are an assumption based on it is you're sacrificing 1:11:33.320 --> 1:11:35.800 a bunch of other jobs and economic opportunity because you 1:11:35.800 --> 1:11:37.600 guys want to hunt there. You're making the rest of 1:11:37.600 --> 1:11:41.280 the company country suffer economically because you guys want to 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:44.439 protect your elk hunting spot. I say, no, what about 1:11:44.479 --> 1:11:48.280 the elk hunting jobs, the guides, the outfitters, the restaurants, 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:53.400 the towns. What about these What about these vibrant communities Missoula, Montana, Bozeman. 1:11:53.880 --> 1:11:57.720 They're based largely on outdoor recreation. There are jobs associated 1:11:57.880 --> 1:12:01.439 with the wilderness. It's not just all or nothing. There's 1:12:01.439 --> 1:12:03.400 other kinds of clean jobs. I mean, I work in 1:12:03.439 --> 1:12:06.120 an industry. We were all here because of it. You know, 1:12:06.200 --> 1:12:09.160 it's not tied to a volatile market. We wouldn't be 1:12:09.160 --> 1:12:12.559 in the fight that we're in. If these uh single 1:12:12.600 --> 1:12:15.679 moms in Chicago, to stick with that example, they may 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:19.000 see these places as aspirational, and I hope they do, 1:12:19.320 --> 1:12:23.559 but they will not fight UH fraction as hard as 1:12:23.560 --> 1:12:28.799 we do without being there for themselves and and seeing 1:12:28.840 --> 1:12:32.599 what it really is. And and I think those are 1:12:32.640 --> 1:12:37.000 the people they're going, Oh, National Forest, I don't even 1:12:37.000 --> 1:12:38.760 know what that is. That's on the other side of 1:12:38.760 --> 1:12:43.519 the country. You know, they're yeah, understanding, appreciate. I recently 1:12:43.560 --> 1:12:46.000 had a conversation. We've been working on a documentary project 1:12:46.040 --> 1:12:48.439 and as part of it, I interviewed at length UH 1:12:48.640 --> 1:12:52.479 animal ethicist. He's a he's a professor, he teaches animal ethics. 1:12:52.479 --> 1:12:57.240 He's animal rights advocate UM activists. And we're in a 1:12:57.280 --> 1:13:00.200 conversation about how you saying he was. I was asking 1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:02.720 him like, let's say you're a really smart hunter. Tell 1:13:02.760 --> 1:13:04.640 me what you think a really smart hunter would tell 1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:07.400 me to justify his existence the same way I did 1:13:07.400 --> 1:13:09.439 the land earlier. And he talked about, oh, you would 1:13:09.479 --> 1:13:13.040 tell me about all the money you guys spend on 1:13:13.280 --> 1:13:17.280 wildlife habitat and wetlands. We kind of holding on the 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:20.439 duck idea and talking about ducks on limited. He's like that, 1:13:20.600 --> 1:13:22.200 you tell me that you spend all that, But I 1:13:22.240 --> 1:13:23.640 would just say, you're just doing that because you want 1:13:23.640 --> 1:13:26.559 to shoot it, right, And I was describing to him 1:13:26.600 --> 1:13:29.479 after this. I was describing him, you know what happens 1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:32.080 when you go to ducks on limited banquet and people 1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:35.200 who hunt maybe a day a year go and spend 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:38.559 hundreds or thousands of dollars and give money to an 1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:40.639 organization that is just going to turn around and buy 1:13:40.680 --> 1:13:43.320 wet lands and open it up to the public. And 1:13:43.320 --> 1:13:45.640 he's going, oh, yeah, but yeah, but they only are 1:13:45.840 --> 1:13:47.320 They only do that because they want to kill ducks. 1:13:47.360 --> 1:13:49.559 I'm like, man, you know what, I don't care what 1:13:49.600 --> 1:13:51.880 they're doing it for. If it takes some level of 1:13:51.920 --> 1:13:55.120 exposure to wild places to turn you into an advocate 1:13:55.160 --> 1:13:57.960 of wild places, does that then make it a negative 1:13:58.000 --> 1:14:00.320 because you have this ulterior motive. I'm like, oh, I 1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:04.760 know about advocating for it because I've experienced it. How 1:14:04.800 --> 1:14:07.200 can you expect that? How can you expect it to 1:14:07.320 --> 1:14:10.200 How can you be suspicious of a person who advocates 1:14:10.200 --> 1:14:13.200 on something, but you're suspicious of them because they like 1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:17.599 it too. Who doesn't do that? I mean, who advocates 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:21.120 on ship they don't like So it's just it's like 1:14:21.160 --> 1:14:23.960 the weirdest roundabout argument to be like, oh, yeah, you 1:14:24.040 --> 1:14:25.760 just like you just want to save it because you 1:14:25.800 --> 1:14:29.120 like it, or you caught me red hand. Yeah, I 1:14:29.160 --> 1:14:31.080 do love it a whole bunch, you know. I mean 1:14:31.120 --> 1:14:33.439 the way I would answer that question when somebody says 1:14:33.479 --> 1:14:36.559 that you're just setting it aside um for this elite 1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:40.000 kind of hunting preserve or whatever, I would ask them 1:14:40.000 --> 1:14:42.439 a question before I answer that, And I said, do 1:14:42.479 --> 1:14:47.920 you like clean water? Our clean water starts on public lands, 1:14:48.880 --> 1:14:50.720 and so do you want to make sure that you 1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:53.840 have clean water? That's the that's that's the question. Yeah. 1:14:53.880 --> 1:14:55.640 Now I would get into that too. Just like you 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:59.920 don't understand ecologically, we don't understand as a people ecologic 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:03.320 what these places mean entirely. I mean, you have this 1:15:03.439 --> 1:15:07.120 like interwoven connectivity. I recently heard this theory that was 1:15:07.160 --> 1:15:10.479 really interesting where a guy was taking He was saying 1:15:11.439 --> 1:15:16.840 he was looking at the ocean as an organism that 1:15:16.880 --> 1:15:18.640 you would take an entire ocean and say it's an 1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:21.080 organ is the same way we have like our body, ourselves, 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:24.320 and we're comprised of organs and fluids, right, and electrical 1:15:24.360 --> 1:15:27.719 impulses that allow us to move that. He's like, imagine 1:15:27.720 --> 1:15:29.639 that we have the ocean and we treat the ocean 1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:34.080 as an organism, and the fish, all the fisher, organs, 1:15:34.200 --> 1:15:37.960 everything that happened there. It's like this living being and 1:15:38.760 --> 1:15:40.280 think of it that way. I think you can think 1:15:40.320 --> 1:15:42.240 of our cology in that way, and we don't really 1:15:42.280 --> 1:15:47.320 know what we're gonna lose in other places by messing 1:15:47.320 --> 1:15:51.240 with these things. Look at one, when agricultural practices in 1:15:51.280 --> 1:15:54.479 Louisiana and Texas changed and they started doing a lot 1:15:54.479 --> 1:15:58.679 more rice production, you created such an explosion of snow 1:15:58.720 --> 1:16:04.480 geese that it's denuding portions of the Arctic and damaging 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:10.839 wildlife habitat in the Arctic. It's a long ways from 1:16:10.840 --> 1:16:14.519 Texas to the Arctic, but you create a wave that 1:16:14.560 --> 1:16:19.360 travels with activity. I don't think we're really understand in 1:16:19.400 --> 1:16:21.760 a wildlife sense and in a clean air and clean 1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:24.479 water sense, what would happen if we don't draw the 1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:29.280 line on wildlands protection. I don't think it's just gonna 1:16:29.320 --> 1:16:31.160 be like you can just pluck it away and act 1:16:31.240 --> 1:16:34.920 like that's gone, but everything else stays the same. We're 1:16:34.920 --> 1:16:39.280 not done making mistakes. I mean, we've done ridiculous stuff 1:16:39.280 --> 1:16:41.200 and made ridiculous mistakes, and now we laugh about what 1:16:41.240 --> 1:16:43.800 our grandparents did. Our kids and our grandkids are gonna 1:16:43.800 --> 1:16:46.080 be laughing about ship we're doing right now that we 1:16:46.120 --> 1:16:52.040 think is perfectly normal. Hope they're laughing in the back. 1:16:52.960 --> 1:16:56.519 Much briefly on badrics you mad and Glacier, and then 1:16:56.520 --> 1:16:58.960 also of water because you talk maybe a little bit 1:16:58.960 --> 1:17:01.719 about what's still going on on the tribe. It's Bessie, 1:17:02.560 --> 1:17:05.640 what's going on the tribe up there? And what was 1:17:05.680 --> 1:17:12.200 trying me down? And where we're at with that? Yeah, so, um, 1:17:12.240 --> 1:17:14.439 I don't remember the exact number of leases, and I 1:17:14.479 --> 1:17:19.799 don't remember. Won't restate that question, Okay, So the question 1:17:19.880 --> 1:17:21.880 is what's going on with the Badger two medicine? And 1:17:21.880 --> 1:17:24.759 I'll orient everybody about what that is. That's a area 1:17:24.760 --> 1:17:28.240 of the Rocky Mountain Front, essentially south of Glacier Park 1:17:28.280 --> 1:17:32.000 in Montana, all the way down to Chodo. Um. It's 1:17:32.000 --> 1:17:35.960 about a thirty five mile by thirty five mile area UM, 1:17:36.000 --> 1:17:40.679 sacred to the Blackfeet Indians, sacred to me personally. UM. 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:45.000 In the eighties, there were oil leases let in the 1:17:45.000 --> 1:17:47.439 Badger too med and it has long been argued by 1:17:47.560 --> 1:17:53.560 the Blackfeet tribe the improper UH environmental review was followed 1:17:53.800 --> 1:17:57.080 before those oil leases were let because the tribe was 1:17:57.120 --> 1:18:00.160 not giving was not given UM proper overs at a 1:18:00.240 --> 1:18:02.439 proper comment period on it. That's been fought in the 1:18:02.439 --> 1:18:05.840 courts for quite some time. Company in Louisiana called solan 1:18:06.080 --> 1:18:09.120 X has one of these leases, and solon X stepped 1:18:09.200 --> 1:18:11.320 up a few years ago and decided, well, out of 1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:13.760 the several companies that own several of these tens of 1:18:13.800 --> 1:18:17.439 thousands acres leases, we're gonna push it. We're gonna drill there. 1:18:17.439 --> 1:18:19.639 We're gonna call the bluff, we're gonna see what happens. 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:23.559 And so they started pushing to drill, exploring, sending, you know, 1:18:23.640 --> 1:18:26.479 applying for permits. They're saying, we're gonna drill. And so 1:18:26.520 --> 1:18:28.919 these leases had just been set there kind of simmering 1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:30.920 for some time in a place that's you know, really 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:34.519 really is a sacred, beautiful place. UM. My kid's name 1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:39.200 badge after the badge of two medicine. Um, well, just 1:18:39.280 --> 1:18:42.160 recently the federal government decided with the Blackfeet tribe, we 1:18:42.200 --> 1:18:45.000 have one of those leases. The federal government said, you 1:18:45.040 --> 1:18:47.920 gotta do whatever you gotta do or get off the pot. 1:18:48.120 --> 1:18:50.000 And you either got to cancel the leases or you 1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:51.519 gotta let them drill one or the other. You gotta 1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:54.760 go and find the federal government Sally Jewel Environmental secretary 1:18:54.840 --> 1:18:58.080 or the Interior secretary canceled the lease. So we have 1:18:58.200 --> 1:19:00.759 one gone, but there's still a whole bunch of leases. 1:19:00.800 --> 1:19:03.840 There's we think probably that the president is is that 1:19:03.880 --> 1:19:05.960 that's going to be too difficult to drill there, and 1:19:06.000 --> 1:19:09.760 we'll hope for some kind of system to retire or 1:19:09.880 --> 1:19:12.120 buy out or whatever the rest of the leases. We 1:19:12.160 --> 1:19:14.800 have a good precedent, it's on a good path, but 1:19:14.840 --> 1:19:19.600 the fight's not over yet. Up front. Yeah, So you know, 1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:22.880 the n r A does their candidacy indoors from the 1:19:23.280 --> 1:19:28.320 rate candidates political candidates in like Yo, we are free 1:19:28.520 --> 1:19:31.600 national delegates all get a radis. But they're also the 1:19:31.600 --> 1:19:34.679 ones we the char for the transfer of public land. 1:19:34.760 --> 1:19:38.040 So I'm curious if he's been talks of maybe like 1:19:38.120 --> 1:19:40.960 doing some sort of rating system for candidates that are 1:19:41.280 --> 1:19:46.160 positive for public plants. Yeah, so the question is is 1:19:46.400 --> 1:19:48.280 uh is b h A ready to kind of start 1:19:48.400 --> 1:19:51.880 rating candidates right and letting people know where they stand 1:19:51.880 --> 1:19:55.519 on issues. Uh so this last year or in this 1:19:55.640 --> 1:19:59.839 cycle right now? Um, you know there's with the presidential candidates, 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:04.080 they all went down to Nevada and um, and then 1:20:04.400 --> 1:20:06.439 I think it was the Renal Journal that asked them questions. 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:08.920 There was five questions. One of those was about public lands, 1:20:09.960 --> 1:20:11.880 and so it was a great way for us to 1:20:12.000 --> 1:20:15.400 without doing like a candidate scorecard, to like just just 1:20:15.640 --> 1:20:18.479 provide information to people. Now, I will tell you that 1:20:18.560 --> 1:20:23.720 the legalities of a scorecard are very complicated because right 1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:26.599 away they're looking like endorsements and you know, and and 1:20:26.680 --> 1:20:28.280 so you have to be very careful as a five 1:20:28.280 --> 1:20:30.759 oh one c three, which we are where we cannot 1:20:30.840 --> 1:20:33.960 engage in political politics at all. So it's be very 1:20:34.040 --> 1:20:36.639 careful of that. And you know, the I've been involved 1:20:36.640 --> 1:20:38.960 in the scorecards, and what the way that you kind 1:20:38.960 --> 1:20:41.360 of get around that is have instead of having like 1:20:41.360 --> 1:20:44.559 two questions about public lands that are very leading, you 1:20:44.560 --> 1:20:47.680 have to have a big array of things that you 1:20:47.720 --> 1:20:51.000 ask them, right and and that threshold is I mean, 1:20:51.080 --> 1:20:54.320 that's it's very complicated, but that threshold you can do it. Um. 1:20:54.400 --> 1:20:56.439 Is that something that we want to do? I say, yes, 1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:58.519 do we have Do we have the resources you know 1:20:58.680 --> 1:21:02.400 to be able to do that? Uh? This last cycle? No? Um, 1:21:02.400 --> 1:21:04.479 But I think it's something that's uh, you know, providing 1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:07.240 information to people is something that we're supposed to be 1:21:07.240 --> 1:21:10.160 doing right and giving them letting them make their own decisions. 1:21:10.160 --> 1:21:12.439 And so without us endorsing candidates, which we cannot do, 1:21:12.920 --> 1:21:14.720 we can provide that information. I think that's something we'll 1:21:14.760 --> 1:21:17.679 probably do in the future. You know, I totally agree 1:21:17.720 --> 1:21:20.760 with landing without getting in the exact politics of it. 1:21:20.760 --> 1:21:24.120 Are endorsing anybody or anything? And back to Josh's question 1:21:24.120 --> 1:21:27.599 a bit. I firmly believe that until some people lose 1:21:27.640 --> 1:21:30.519 their races because of their public land stances, it won't change. 1:21:30.960 --> 1:21:32.960 And you know, I'm not saying who it is or 1:21:33.000 --> 1:21:36.479 who is endorsed or not, but until a sportsman rise 1:21:36.600 --> 1:21:40.640 up and penalize people at the ballot box, this is 1:21:40.640 --> 1:21:43.360 not going to go away. Because there's political advantage in it, 1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:45.839 and we have a lot of power. By the way, 1:21:46.280 --> 1:21:50.880 it's unharnessed yeah, it's I'm not gonna get too deep 1:21:50.920 --> 1:21:55.519 into presidential politics, but it's been. It's frustrating to me 1:21:55.640 --> 1:21:58.880 that of all front runners either party, there's not a 1:21:58.880 --> 1:22:03.160 person who has even an idea of a background in 1:22:03.200 --> 1:22:05.280 the out of doors, an idea of a background and 1:22:05.280 --> 1:22:09.280 and and hunting fishing. Um. I don't think it's over, 1:22:09.320 --> 1:22:11.920 but you know, we've had such a strong tradition of 1:22:11.920 --> 1:22:14.960 of outdoors people in politics in this country, and there 1:22:14.960 --> 1:22:19.040 are some phenomenal senators and congressmen who have, you know, 1:22:19.400 --> 1:22:22.479 a strong land ethic both sides of the aisle. We're 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:24.680 just we're lacking at right now. I know a lot 1:22:24.680 --> 1:22:28.200 of hunters get frustrated because either have you got one 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:31.960 party who tends to advocate on behalf of wilderness and 1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:34.240 clean air and clean water, you got another party that 1:22:34.280 --> 1:22:38.120 tends to advocate on behalf of firearm ownership and hunting 1:22:38.120 --> 1:22:43.040 heritage and UM. I always feel like a political eunuch 1:22:44.360 --> 1:22:47.680 because you're just you're torn between these two things. I 1:22:47.760 --> 1:22:50.559 lament the days um of having both. I think that 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:53.040 I don't want to say a name. There's a guy, 1:22:53.080 --> 1:22:55.280 there's a senator out of New Mexico that I think 1:22:55.360 --> 1:23:00.040 hits a very like a wonderful balance. Yeah, super to 1:23:00.080 --> 1:23:04.960 start for us. Yeah, strikes of wonderful balance between hunting, heritage, 1:23:05.400 --> 1:23:09.639 firearm ownership, clean air, clean water, wild their habits at 1:23:09.720 --> 1:23:13.200 But right now it's just absolutely missing from the political realm. 1:23:13.280 --> 1:23:16.040 John Tester, same thing. So you heard it here first, 1:23:16.200 --> 1:23:22.320 Steve Ronello for President. Nope, I talked about a whole 1:23:22.360 --> 1:23:24.519 bunch of stuff that most Americans could care to less about. 1:23:24.600 --> 1:23:27.880 Man couldn't care less about, you know. To Steve's point, though, 1:23:28.680 --> 1:23:31.960 that's why organizations like b H are so important. Because 1:23:32.720 --> 1:23:36.840 we don't have Teddy Roosevelt's uh in office. It's gonna 1:23:36.920 --> 1:23:41.920 take advocacy from very sharply minded organs like us to 1:23:42.080 --> 1:23:45.679 influence policy, you know, in the smoke filled rooms, and 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:48.639 without you know, orders like us doing it, we don't 1:23:48.720 --> 1:23:51.000 just have the innate knowledge of it in the corner 1:23:51.040 --> 1:23:56.639 office anymore. I was laughing at this internal, very brief, 1:23:56.680 --> 1:23:59.719 internal debate I was having when you mentioned the Badger 1:23:59.760 --> 1:24:03.599 two Edicine, because it is a very very special place 1:24:03.600 --> 1:24:05.840 and I love it, and I was listening to you 1:24:05.920 --> 1:24:09.000 talk and thinking, I don't say that, don't say it's beautiful, 1:24:09.360 --> 1:24:11.360 And I'm like telling there's a lot of grizzly bears. 1:24:11.400 --> 1:24:15.360 Don't go up there, you know. But in every hunter, 1:24:15.439 --> 1:24:20.439 every fisherman, any birdwatcher, you know you have your special 1:24:20.439 --> 1:24:22.639 spots and you don't want to show up and see 1:24:22.680 --> 1:24:24.759 other people there. But you've got to be open about 1:24:24.800 --> 1:24:26.800 this stuff now, and you know it's time you got 1:24:26.920 --> 1:24:30.080 to take the gloves off and be willing to say, Hey, 1:24:30.120 --> 1:24:33.720 these places are incredible. You should go there. Just so 1:24:33.800 --> 1:24:37.360 you know, I've been known to fly across the room 1:24:37.520 --> 1:24:39.720 grab the phone out of my wife's hand as she 1:24:39.760 --> 1:24:42.439 starts to mention utter the first letter of the name 1:24:42.439 --> 1:24:44.519 of a creek. I might have been in her So 1:24:44.840 --> 1:24:47.880 for me to even mention this place, I will tell 1:24:47.880 --> 1:24:49.400 you I killed the bowl in the batch of tomad 1:24:49.680 --> 1:24:52.160 Uh two or three years ago. I saw six different 1:24:52.160 --> 1:24:54.920 Glusay bears the day I killed that bowl, six different bears. 1:24:55.080 --> 1:24:56.479 So I'm not lying when I say there's a bunch 1:24:56.520 --> 1:24:59.120 of bears there. But I like those places. We allys 1:24:59.400 --> 1:25:02.679 uh well when we're our cold is steing Cole Creek 1:25:04.720 --> 1:25:10.840 for every creek, every creek? All right, you got in 1:25:10.880 --> 1:25:14.360 the concluding thoughts were done with questions, Oh no, we 1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:16.080 need more questions. I just I don't know how long 1:25:16.120 --> 1:25:19.800 has been been, just over an hour really, two or 1:25:19.920 --> 1:25:23.479 three things that um, folks that are listening to this 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:30.639 podcast going to do after or lands, whether the lawn 1:25:30.720 --> 1:25:36.760 Chicago or whether it's sportsman or just aspirational, what would 1:25:36.760 --> 1:25:41.479 they they you to talk? So the question is is 1:25:41.520 --> 1:25:44.599 what can the listeners of this podcast do to advocate 1:25:44.600 --> 1:25:48.800 on behalf of these wild places? It's up fair? Can 1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:52.840 I give one and you give to sure number one? 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:57.840 You gotta start voting your sport. You gotta strip your 1:25:57.880 --> 1:26:01.400 sport from the rest of the partisan politics. Make ballot 1:26:01.400 --> 1:26:04.280 box decisions based upon this stuff. If it's important to you, 1:26:06.040 --> 1:26:11.160 So I totally agree. Um, I would say join an organization. 1:26:11.479 --> 1:26:13.559 You know, I'm I'm I'm selfish, and so I said, 1:26:13.640 --> 1:26:16.400 join back Country Hunters and Anglers because I think we are, 1:26:17.280 --> 1:26:19.800 um you know, we're tapping into something and we are 1:26:19.880 --> 1:26:23.200 the advocates for public lands. So join b h A. 1:26:23.840 --> 1:26:25.639 But if you know you want to join the Elk 1:26:25.640 --> 1:26:29.920 Foundation that helps protect Elk habitat, ducks On Limited that 1:26:29.960 --> 1:26:33.280 helps protect duck habitat, mean the list, I mean, you know, 1:26:33.600 --> 1:26:37.840 National Wild Turkey Federation. There's many many groups out there, um, 1:26:37.880 --> 1:26:41.599 and often times people like one of the UM. I'm 1:26:41.600 --> 1:26:43.439 gonna let you get back to your list. But one 1:26:43.479 --> 1:26:46.840 of the things that an organization like this provides is 1:26:47.000 --> 1:26:52.280 a sense of camaraderie, brotherhood and sisterhood. Right. You can 1:26:52.360 --> 1:26:55.040 meet like minded people and share information. I mean, there's 1:26:55.040 --> 1:27:00.720 a tremendous um reservoir of experience to draw for um. 1:27:00.760 --> 1:27:03.960 If you have a passion for particular type of hunting, 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:06.360 particular type of fishing. Let's say your thing is trolling 1:27:06.439 --> 1:27:10.640 salmon on Lake Michigan, you can find an organization that 1:27:10.960 --> 1:27:15.800 is fighting for clean water in the Great Lakes, you know, um, 1:27:16.040 --> 1:27:18.599 and then you will find like minded people and and 1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:22.360 get a lot out of that engagement. I would you know, 1:27:22.360 --> 1:27:24.599 and truly if if, if, if you want to, if 1:27:24.640 --> 1:27:28.639 you care about public lands, there's not another organization besides 1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:32.160 the BHA that's advocating for you. These other organizations that 1:27:32.200 --> 1:27:34.639 do great work. A lot of that's on private land, 1:27:35.680 --> 1:27:38.679 which is vitally important. But if you like public lands, 1:27:38.720 --> 1:27:41.559 BHA is gonna defend that such very species specific. We're 1:27:41.600 --> 1:27:45.760 not we're ecosystem why so I think that's one and 1:27:45.800 --> 1:27:47.479 that's another big plug for b h A. But I 1:27:47.479 --> 1:27:51.800 think too is make a phone call. You know, I 1:27:51.800 --> 1:27:53.800 mean a lot of people think that their voices don't count. 1:27:55.000 --> 1:27:56.760 And you know, we had we had Centator Tester here 1:27:56.800 --> 1:27:58.519 earlier this week, and we're asking them how can we 1:27:58.520 --> 1:28:01.360 be better advocates? Like what can we do? Your voice 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:03.320 counts is what he told us. He said, when somebody 1:28:03.360 --> 1:28:06.040 calls them on the phone, that represents a hundred other 1:28:06.120 --> 1:28:10.960 like minded individuals. So then that's one call. Let's have 1:28:11.080 --> 1:28:13.320 ten calls in a day. That's a thousand people back home. 1:28:13.400 --> 1:28:15.800 That's starting to get somebody's attention. So that was the 1:28:15.800 --> 1:28:20.160 first one, make a phone called. Second one is as newspapers, 1:28:20.640 --> 1:28:23.559 you think they're going away, but they're still read very widely. 1:28:23.920 --> 1:28:27.960 And you know, senators and congressmen have staff that every 1:28:27.960 --> 1:28:30.800 single day they go to those editorial pieces of the 1:28:30.800 --> 1:28:34.320 paper and if that senator or congressman's name is mentioned, 1:28:34.360 --> 1:28:36.840 that thing is flagged for them right away. And so 1:28:37.080 --> 1:28:39.960 while we that's kind of a venue that's going away 1:28:40.000 --> 1:28:42.160 in a lot of people's minds, it's not the chip 1:28:42.240 --> 1:28:47.000 shots on social media exactly exactly, and so it's something 1:28:47.040 --> 1:28:49.879 that has staying power. And so I like getting involved, 1:28:49.880 --> 1:28:51.400 and I think, you know, we can help you do that, 1:28:51.439 --> 1:28:53.120 but you can do that as an individual as well. 1:28:53.320 --> 1:28:55.240 So those are the like the two things that I 1:28:55.240 --> 1:28:58.000 would say. I think too, it's important for people to 1:28:58.000 --> 1:29:02.160 to learn how to parse out the planks and the 1:29:02.280 --> 1:29:07.200 politician's platform. You know, it's easy to fall into. I 1:29:07.240 --> 1:29:09.800 guess so sick of hearing people tell me, like, you know, 1:29:10.040 --> 1:29:13.880 oh I'm a liberal, I'm a conservative. I mean, boy, 1:29:14.040 --> 1:29:17.760 good luck applying that to me, because I go by, 1:29:18.160 --> 1:29:20.519 give me an issue, man, give me an issue. And 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:23.760 I think that if you admire a certain politician and 1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:26.599 they have, you know, a platform made up of many, 1:29:26.600 --> 1:29:29.880 many different things, you don't need to go piece me. 1:29:30.040 --> 1:29:32.960 You don't need to go like wholesale throw in with 1:29:33.000 --> 1:29:35.280 them on it. You can challenge them. You can still 1:29:35.320 --> 1:29:37.840 like that person and like what they stand for and 1:29:38.000 --> 1:29:41.439 challenge them on particular issues, and people can move someone 1:29:42.680 --> 1:29:44.719 in the right direction on a particular issue. It doesn't 1:29:44.760 --> 1:29:50.280 mean you're abandoning your political identity. I think it's hilarious 1:29:50.439 --> 1:29:54.439 when politicians are called flip floppers. You know, now, if 1:29:54.479 --> 1:29:56.439 if they're flip flopping back and forth within a week, 1:29:56.800 --> 1:29:58.599 that makes sense to be but what you just described 1:29:58.640 --> 1:30:00.880 to me is getting more knowledge and and having a 1:30:00.880 --> 1:30:04.120 different view on things, which I if I if I 1:30:04.479 --> 1:30:06.160 was beholden to everything I thought when I was an 1:30:06.200 --> 1:30:08.960 eighteen years old, if I was beholding everything, I'd still 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:13.360 be shipping my pants. It's like people change over time, man, 1:30:13.680 --> 1:30:16.599 exactly right. And if you're not, if you're not using 1:30:16.880 --> 1:30:20.320 the environment around you to help educate you and help 1:30:20.320 --> 1:30:24.080 you evolve, then you're stuck in this space, right and 1:30:24.080 --> 1:30:26.640 you're just this dogmatic views. And so I think you know, 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:32.760 when people um uh are educated and and and learn 1:30:32.880 --> 1:30:34.600 more about an issue and they change that, that's not 1:30:34.640 --> 1:30:37.080 a flip flopping. That's evolving. To me. Yeah, I always 1:30:37.120 --> 1:30:39.840 admire someone one if they've had an opinion and then 1:30:39.920 --> 1:30:44.439 later on they have to say, based on what I'm 1:30:44.479 --> 1:30:47.240 hearing from my constituency, I'm gonna have to support this 1:30:47.960 --> 1:30:50.240 because in that way it is it's like you can 1:30:50.240 --> 1:30:52.240 take that too far. But in that ways, when there's 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:56.599 like overwhelming pressure from the majority of people, I think 1:30:56.800 --> 1:31:02.439 it's perfectly acceptable for political figure to say instinctively, I 1:31:02.560 --> 1:31:05.639 was supposed to this, but I cannot ignore what I'm 1:31:05.680 --> 1:31:10.600 hearing from my constituency. If this is overwhelming. I have 1:31:10.680 --> 1:31:13.760 to go against my what my my gut reaction on 1:31:13.800 --> 1:31:20.000 this and support wilderness or any number of things. You know, 1:31:20.320 --> 1:31:22.080 I think, yeah, we're too like, you know, we're it's 1:31:22.080 --> 1:31:23.920 too easy to be like, oh, you're a flip flopper. Yeah, 1:31:23.920 --> 1:31:26.439 but again, if someone changes there, if someone says something 1:31:26.479 --> 1:31:28.439 and then there's an immediate Twitter revolt and they go 1:31:28.479 --> 1:31:32.439 a hunter eight degrees, It's different than having then listening 1:31:32.479 --> 1:31:36.680 to your people who are just driving you insane by 1:31:36.720 --> 1:31:38.640 telling you you're wrong on this, you're wrong on this, this, 1:31:38.840 --> 1:31:41.720 and then you change your opinion about it. That kind 1:31:41.760 --> 1:31:44.400 of stuff happens all the time. Man. We should embrace it, 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:46.160 and you can move it. You can move people in 1:31:46.240 --> 1:31:49.240 a certain direction just by being around them, articulating them 1:31:49.240 --> 1:31:51.960 and not being I'm being an a hole to them, 1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:54.200 but trying to explain where you're coming from. We did it, 1:31:54.320 --> 1:31:56.040 Badger too mad, We did it. I mean, that's a 1:31:56.040 --> 1:32:00.160 great example. We move people. We motivated b A. You 1:32:00.240 --> 1:32:03.320 help motivate our members. We sent letters, we made calls, 1:32:03.400 --> 1:32:07.400 we went to meetings, we contributed um, we swayed opinion, 1:32:07.560 --> 1:32:11.479 We got u s Senators asking Secretaries of Interior to 1:32:11.520 --> 1:32:14.840 cancel leases. I mean we can on both sides that 1:32:14.920 --> 1:32:17.840 we can make we can have impacts. Um, there's a 1:32:17.840 --> 1:32:19.880 lot of victories we've had. So you're saying the people 1:32:20.200 --> 1:32:23.920 spoke up and the government made changes on behalf of 1:32:23.960 --> 1:32:27.920 the people the shot at them, right, Yeah, I know 1:32:27.960 --> 1:32:30.559 it sounds weird, but it works. You know, instead of 1:32:30.640 --> 1:32:32.439 like like you said to your Facebook, instead of just 1:32:32.600 --> 1:32:35.760 throwing something up there with half baked facts to piss 1:32:35.800 --> 1:32:38.680 off the whole world. Um, you know, try being constructive, 1:32:38.720 --> 1:32:41.639 make a call, get involved. They listen. They listen way 1:32:41.680 --> 1:32:46.120 more than some men on Facebook. I like that. Well, 1:32:46.200 --> 1:32:50.920 last question. There on the left have talked pretty extensively 1:32:50.960 --> 1:32:56.280 about preserving the ecological integrety probably I used felt generations, 1:32:57.200 --> 1:33:00.320 and we hadn't really talked about what is pass the 1:33:00.360 --> 1:33:03.880 elephant is corner, and that is that the same science 1:33:03.920 --> 1:33:06.640 that we rely on for our management decisions, for our 1:33:06.640 --> 1:33:11.040 biological matter's decisions, for our eutological integrity assessments, and suggesting 1:33:11.040 --> 1:33:14.800 that by a lot of the lands that we rely 1:33:14.880 --> 1:33:17.640 on for the production of the animal species that we 1:33:17.720 --> 1:33:20.760 care intense and about are going to be very significantly 1:33:20.800 --> 1:33:23.680 harmed by climate change. So what do we do as 1:33:23.680 --> 1:33:26.640 sportsman and sports women and life and its associations that 1:33:26.680 --> 1:33:29.960 are interested in preserving the ecological integrity of these lands 1:33:30.320 --> 1:33:36.280 to consider climate change is an issue. So the question is, all, 1:33:36.320 --> 1:33:41.040 this is great, but what about climate change? Is that fair? 1:33:43.080 --> 1:33:45.840 I'm gonna try to answer as quickly as possible because 1:33:45.840 --> 1:33:47.479 we should just have a whole other discussion of this 1:33:47.479 --> 1:33:50.400 for an hour and a half. I think that the 1:33:50.560 --> 1:33:54.760 solution about saving wild lands and wild places I think 1:33:54.920 --> 1:34:00.559 is is the solution is personal and political. I think 1:34:00.560 --> 1:34:08.000 the climate change issues, it's uh technological that issue. I 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:10.080 don't think that issue is going to be resolved by 1:34:10.200 --> 1:34:14.400 American restraint. I don't think you canceling your vacation is 1:34:14.439 --> 1:34:17.040 going to move the needle on climate change because you're 1:34:17.080 --> 1:34:20.479 not going to be in a jet. It's like there 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:23.880 are some gigantic countries out there who aren't thinking about this. 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:26.439 I think that the solution is going to come from 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:31.320 technological advancement, is going to come through market incentive. On 1:34:31.360 --> 1:34:35.519 the on the wildlife side, it's a monster issue. Um. 1:34:35.640 --> 1:34:38.559 Anybody who thinks about this stuff, I think personally struggles 1:34:38.560 --> 1:34:41.920 with it. I say, the beautiful thing from a wildlife 1:34:41.920 --> 1:34:45.160 from a b H. A kind of standpoint is even 1:34:45.200 --> 1:34:48.000 if you even if you, even if you struggle climate 1:34:48.080 --> 1:34:51.519 change and what if and all that stuff, Um, you 1:34:51.560 --> 1:34:55.800 can't tell me that preserving wildlands is contrary to good 1:34:55.840 --> 1:34:59.200 science on climate change. Perhaps it's not enough, but I 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:01.280 know we're gonna be on the right side of history there, 1:35:01.320 --> 1:35:03.080 even even if history is a little uglier than I 1:35:03.520 --> 1:35:05.040 it proves to be a little uglier than I wish 1:35:05.080 --> 1:35:08.080 it was. Preserving some more wildlands is not going to 1:35:08.200 --> 1:35:10.720 add to climate change. You know we're on the right 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:13.519 side of that. The way I would answer that is 1:35:13.640 --> 1:35:17.800 that you know, we are seeing impacts already from climate change, 1:35:19.360 --> 1:35:22.800 and what we need to do to help fishing wildlife 1:35:23.439 --> 1:35:27.160 have a chance as this world changes is keep these 1:35:27.200 --> 1:35:31.000 wild places so you have connectivity of habitat, whether that's 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:36.479 an elevation or that's north south or east west. And 1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:41.280 so if we fragment the wildlife habitat that we have, 1:35:41.439 --> 1:35:45.599 now they got no chance, right and so and and 1:35:45.680 --> 1:35:47.600 you know, whether you believe in climate change and the 1:35:47.600 --> 1:35:52.280 impacts or not, we're setting up a place for them 1:35:52.280 --> 1:35:54.720 to be for a long time, whether or not the 1:35:54.760 --> 1:35:57.479 impacts are huge or not. Right now, give things room 1:35:57.520 --> 1:36:02.160 to adjust exactly. I just there's a lot of people 1:36:02.160 --> 1:36:07.639 in other areas are just looking at as you know, again, 1:36:08.240 --> 1:36:10.479 I don't want to get into the to the housing 1:36:10.640 --> 1:36:13.000 the too details the house and wise, but whether we're 1:36:13.040 --> 1:36:16.320 seeing a natural phenomenon that will naturally reverse. So if 1:36:16.320 --> 1:36:18.840 we're seeing something that is a one way street, I'm 1:36:18.840 --> 1:36:21.559 not gonna address my opinion on it right now. But 1:36:22.560 --> 1:36:25.960 there are people looking at just if all this stuff 1:36:26.160 --> 1:36:31.320 is gonna move uphill what's up hill? Are we ready 1:36:31.320 --> 1:36:33.680 for that? Are we making it that animals and and 1:36:33.840 --> 1:36:38.519 that that that wildlife has like some room to change 1:36:39.120 --> 1:36:43.920 and adapt um and and go to new places to feed, 1:36:43.960 --> 1:36:45.760 to go to new places to bead, new places to win, 1:36:45.840 --> 1:36:48.120 or new places the summer. So I think again, like 1:36:48.200 --> 1:36:50.240 Ryan was saying, you're on either way, you're on the 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:53.760 right hot side of history. You're not gonna, uh exacerbate 1:36:53.800 --> 1:37:01.200 the problem by removing connective corridors between wild areas. Yeah, 1:37:02.040 --> 1:37:12.240 totally great, gal Yep, what are we gonna lose? I mean, 1:37:12.280 --> 1:37:16.120 what are we gonna lose by protecting these places? What 1:37:16.160 --> 1:37:18.479 are we gonna lose if we don't protect them? You know, 1:37:18.520 --> 1:37:23.559 it's it's a very simple thing can we do concluding 1:37:23.600 --> 1:37:27.840 thoughts now? Be honest, I think we should. Okay, you're honest. 1:37:29.439 --> 1:37:33.000 I have one. Today. I had a great conversation with 1:37:33.040 --> 1:37:36.120 the gal I was from a third time in my 1:37:36.160 --> 1:37:42.439 life Floridian. She lives all over the country, but I 1:37:42.479 --> 1:37:43.960 got lucky for the third time on the left and 1:37:44.000 --> 1:37:47.120 got upgraded. So I feel like, what's not just great 1:37:47.120 --> 1:37:49.519 about the leg room up front? But I actually have 1:37:49.600 --> 1:37:51.479 great conversations with the people I get to sit next 1:37:51.479 --> 1:37:53.200 to in the front of the plane. So I was 1:37:53.280 --> 1:37:55.400 I was stoked, and all I had work to do. 1:37:55.479 --> 1:37:58.160 I engaged. But anyways, she's out on the board for 1:37:58.240 --> 1:38:03.880 the Florida Wildlife Federation. Not a hunter, like just a 1:38:03.880 --> 1:38:08.000 little bit of a fisherman, but she she basically introduces 1:38:08.040 --> 1:38:12.559 herself as a conservationist. I said, really, because really, usually 1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:16.400 if you're not like hunter fisherman person, you don't identify 1:38:16.520 --> 1:38:18.640 with that. Are you sure you don't want to call 1:38:18.640 --> 1:38:22.840 yourself an environmentalist? Like, isn't that who you are? She's like, no, no, 1:38:22.920 --> 1:38:25.720 I'm a conservationist, you know, first and foremost. And so 1:38:26.800 --> 1:38:29.920 that spawned this great conversation. And I guess my closing 1:38:29.960 --> 1:38:33.320 thought is that I think we need to find adversaries 1:38:34.560 --> 1:38:44.680 outside of hunters and fishermen, you know, allies. Yeah. Sorry, 1:38:44.720 --> 1:38:47.600 I was struggling with that, but anyways, Yeah, she was 1:38:47.600 --> 1:38:49.479 telling about how in Florida she seems to think that 1:38:49.479 --> 1:38:53.040 they have no problem whatsoever getting hunters and fishermen together 1:38:53.280 --> 1:38:56.640 with the environmental types and and you know, meeting in 1:38:56.680 --> 1:38:59.479 the middle zone and moving forward. And I just feel like, 1:39:00.320 --> 1:39:03.519 too often here we're like setting ourselves apart and not 1:39:04.240 --> 1:39:07.240 you know, getting find those allies in other places. Because 1:39:07.240 --> 1:39:09.519 I really feel like in the end, if we're talking 1:39:09.520 --> 1:39:11.720 about public lands and clean water and whatever, we all 1:39:11.720 --> 1:39:13.960 have the same goal. And so yeah, well, if you're 1:39:13.960 --> 1:39:16.000 a guy in Florida and you have to open up 1:39:16.000 --> 1:39:19.360 your newspaper to see pictures of literally tens of thousands 1:39:19.400 --> 1:39:23.720 of dead fish from sugar production runoff, I think you 1:39:23.800 --> 1:39:28.479 get some fishermen fired up. Yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes 1:39:28.479 --> 1:39:32.719 an image like that. Um, other things play out in slower, 1:39:32.840 --> 1:39:35.400 less dramatic ways, and they don't get as much attention. 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:44.599 Concluding thought, please, Yeah, it's like dealing poker. Now it's 1:39:44.640 --> 1:39:48.920 Cal's turn. I think I'm all set. You know. In 1:39:49.200 --> 1:39:54.680 room fall out, folks, it's an easy crowd right, like 1:39:54.960 --> 1:39:58.120 everybody is here for the right thing. Like we're fighting 1:39:58.120 --> 1:40:01.559 the good fight and keep it up. And uh as 1:40:01.880 --> 1:40:06.320 our new chairman here, Ryan Bussy said, you know change, 1:40:06.360 --> 1:40:10.759 she'd just said, how change is possible? Don't go occupying 1:40:10.800 --> 1:40:15.160 any buildings. How's your remodel coming? Oh it's rough, man, 1:40:15.400 --> 1:40:18.639 is there just not doing it? Cal's remodel in the place, 1:40:19.400 --> 1:40:23.040 all buys lonesome. You don't need to sell me on. 1:40:24.960 --> 1:40:26.920 It's going good. I'll find a gal here. Don't worry 1:40:26.920 --> 1:40:30.800 about it. No, but no, but no, is it coming? 1:40:31.000 --> 1:40:33.439 That was going? No, I'm not going. I'm not going 1:40:33.520 --> 1:40:36.960 in that direction, honestly. Is it coming along? Yeah? Is 1:40:36.960 --> 1:40:39.360 it like done? Yeah, next time you guys come down, 1:40:39.360 --> 1:40:43.840 I'll be short. You gotta kitchen in there. He's cooking out. 1:40:43.840 --> 1:40:46.000 He's cooking at a camp stove for a long time. 1:40:47.320 --> 1:40:53.280 Congratulates only six months land. Uh, great to have you here, Steve. 1:40:53.400 --> 1:40:55.040 I was really glad that you and your team were 1:40:55.040 --> 1:40:58.000 able to come. You know, we've we've you were here 1:40:58.040 --> 1:41:01.160 five years ago at our first roundnboo and you got 1:41:01.200 --> 1:41:05.720 to witness Ah, the growth and the energy of this 1:41:05.800 --> 1:41:09.479 organization is experiencing and and I think, Um, you know, 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:13.120 and for the listeners that weren't here, Um, you know, 1:41:13.360 --> 1:41:16.479 b h A is on the rise. We have members 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:19.360 in all fifty states. We have chapters now in twenty 1:41:19.400 --> 1:41:23.760 four states. The stuff that we are trying to put 1:41:23.760 --> 1:41:25.360 in this bottle, this lightning that we're trying to put 1:41:25.400 --> 1:41:27.439 in the bottle, you can't experience it unless you go 1:41:27.640 --> 1:41:29.640 and meet with other people. And I think what I 1:41:29.680 --> 1:41:32.280 heard over and over this weekends as people found their 1:41:32.320 --> 1:41:35.759 tribe and so that energy that we had this weekend, 1:41:35.920 --> 1:41:38.160 I want to make sure that goes all across this country. 1:41:38.200 --> 1:41:41.680 And so the stuff that we've been talking about today, Um, 1:41:41.760 --> 1:41:44.559 we have that for future generations and and and and 1:41:44.600 --> 1:41:47.760 so for the listeners, check us out. And when there's 1:41:47.800 --> 1:41:50.559 local events, come talk to those people and see who 1:41:50.560 --> 1:41:52.439 we are and make up your mind for yourself if 1:41:52.479 --> 1:41:56.640 you want to come engage. Ryan, Yeah, I echo that. 1:41:57.000 --> 1:42:00.080 Um you know, we've we've just come from end as 1:42:00.200 --> 1:42:02.439 Lee far. Everybody wants to be a part of a winner, 1:42:02.479 --> 1:42:04.759 and I feel like b h A is really winning. 1:42:04.800 --> 1:42:07.160 And I really appreciate you, Steve. Not only have you 1:42:07.200 --> 1:42:10.400 witnessed it, you've really influenced it. You're a role model 1:42:10.439 --> 1:42:13.680 to a lot of people in this orc um, you know. 1:42:13.720 --> 1:42:16.840 And I met here over the weekend a guy came 1:42:16.880 --> 1:42:20.200 from Washington. Um, and this is just an example the 1:42:20.240 --> 1:42:22.360 sort of people that we pull in and how this 1:42:22.479 --> 1:42:25.200 energy is building on itself. You know, we got a 1:42:25.200 --> 1:42:28.640 guy like Steve Ronnella, who's the ultimate badass, doesn't have 1:42:28.680 --> 1:42:31.439 a problem killing stuff, grilling it up, eating it. We've 1:42:31.479 --> 1:42:35.720 got this guy from Washington who I ran into heard 1:42:35.760 --> 1:42:38.360 about b h A. It got him fired up. He's 1:42:38.400 --> 1:42:40.920 never punched a tag in his life. He drove from 1:42:40.960 --> 1:42:44.320 western central Washington to come here to meet other people 1:42:44.360 --> 1:42:46.800 from He didn't know a soul to meet other people 1:42:46.840 --> 1:42:49.240 from Washington to meet people in b h A. He 1:42:49.280 --> 1:42:51.360 wants to know how to do this. He wants to 1:42:51.400 --> 1:42:53.000 know how to punch his tag. He wants to know 1:42:53.040 --> 1:42:56.080 how to preserve wildland. So we've got this spectrum of 1:42:56.120 --> 1:42:59.880 people who want to be involved, from from the old 1:43:00.439 --> 1:43:02.960 you know, like I said, the ultimate badasses like Steve 1:43:03.040 --> 1:43:04.760 to the guy who's starting and it's gonna be the 1:43:04.840 --> 1:43:07.599 ultimate badass. And you know, we want people on board 1:43:07.600 --> 1:43:10.680 and um, we're thrilled to be doing this. Yeah, that's 1:43:10.720 --> 1:43:12.519 what I want to do. For my concluding thought, is 1:43:12.520 --> 1:43:14.360 it something I've talked about a bunch before, is we 1:43:14.400 --> 1:43:18.320 get probably the number one email. If you're gonna categorize 1:43:19.240 --> 1:43:21.519 the emails we get in, I think the top category 1:43:21.560 --> 1:43:24.800 would be people saying, UM, I want to get involved 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:30.080 in the out of doors. I didn't grow up around this, Um, 1:43:30.240 --> 1:43:34.639 how do I do it? You can? You know, even 1:43:34.680 --> 1:43:38.000 if that's your motivation, you can find great inspiration and 1:43:38.040 --> 1:43:42.280 great business information by joining an organization like this and 1:43:42.360 --> 1:43:45.599 finding like minded folks. Um. Yeah, the way you can 1:43:45.640 --> 1:43:48.960 do a good thing, move the needle in the right direction, 1:43:49.080 --> 1:43:51.120 and also learn a lot of skills. I mean that's 1:43:51.160 --> 1:43:53.280 not something we've gotten into, but a big part of 1:43:53.280 --> 1:43:56.360 what's going on at a weekend like this is people 1:43:56.400 --> 1:44:01.280 are talking shop. You know, I hould some good information 1:44:01.760 --> 1:44:04.000 about an area I've always been interested in. Last night, 1:44:04.000 --> 1:44:08.320 eating my dinner, stay out of the badgeck too. Man. 1:44:08.800 --> 1:44:10.720 You No, it wasn't there as a different spot, but 1:44:10.800 --> 1:44:13.880 I'm real curious about going in there. So it's like, yeah, 1:44:14.000 --> 1:44:15.760 it's not all you know, it's not. You don't need 1:44:15.800 --> 1:44:17.400 to come down and just have a big weekend. A 1:44:17.400 --> 1:44:18.960 good e two shoe and I mean you can come 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:22.719 down and uh enjoin the group and find some people 1:44:22.760 --> 1:44:24.280 who like to be out there as much as you 1:44:24.360 --> 1:44:27.439 like to be out there and m yeah, man, develop 1:44:27.479 --> 1:44:29.799 a tribe, you know, and have it be the tribe 1:44:29.800 --> 1:44:34.280 that's on the winning side and doing good work. That's it. 1:44:34.400 --> 1:44:39.800 Thanks for joining h