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Speaker 1: M This is the me Eater Podcast, coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening. Don't eat podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict that anything. Everyone, This is the me

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Speaker 1: Eater Podcast. We're in Missoula, Montana, celebrating Lanton He's birthday. Really,

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Speaker 1: we're here for the Bad Huntry Hunters and Anglers Annual Rendezvous.

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Speaker 1: And this is number five. Why did why did it

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Speaker 1: takes alone to have one? I just knowing every thoughts like, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's have it, get together because of what it takes

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Speaker 1: to put it on, you know, And I think because

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Speaker 1: the organization has been around how long I've been around

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Speaker 1: for this our twelfth year. But you know that was

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Speaker 1: when we first had staff. I think when we had

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Speaker 1: the first one, So you had to have someone to

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Speaker 1: plan it out. Exactly when I showed up here yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I got here and the first thing I saw his

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Speaker 1: callahan uh sneaking out the door going fishing. What did

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Speaker 1: you catch you in a two hour two hour float?

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Speaker 1: It was a little rushed three two hour cruise, little rushed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: um got one rainbow? You know. Um, you know my

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Speaker 1: sister in law lives up that river. You run the

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Speaker 1: Blackfoot River. You met her. Yeah, you caught one fish.

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Speaker 1: You can catch one, but he did not. Was it

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Speaker 1: a big one that you caught. It was a nice fish,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't huge. And you guys did a full on float. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My buddy, uh Ryan Thompson, Caitlin two wigs, uh husband

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Speaker 1: he name dropping. They live up there anyway, help me

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Speaker 1: out a on and basically at the boat on the water,

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Speaker 1: We ran up there, jumped in, floated down to their house.

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Speaker 1: He continued onto the boat ramp and took care of

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Speaker 1: all the stuff. Really yeah, and I came back here

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Speaker 1: in time for the fish released it just like you do.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about having you on. He's T shirt company

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Speaker 1: made me a T shirt down on the back. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be like cud zoo a dandelion, spotted nap weed,

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Speaker 1: leafy spurge in a rainbow. It's gonna be like UMVASI

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Speaker 1: stopping vases. Now, how about bomb come on the front

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Speaker 1: and bomb that good catching release into the pan of grease.

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Speaker 1: So now, like, what's the goal of a of the

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Speaker 1: the whole deal? When you guys have a you know,

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Speaker 1: when the organization has an annual convention, it's like to

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Speaker 1: rally people up. Do you guys actually do bis this?

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Speaker 1: We do. We had our only face to face board meeting,

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Speaker 1: and then we had chapter leaders that came in from

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Speaker 1: all across the country. I think we had forty five

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Speaker 1: chapter leaders, and so we did some training with them,

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Speaker 1: and then, like what you talked about rallying the troops.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of us only see

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Speaker 1: each other one time a year, and so um, having

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Speaker 1: the ability to like bring everybody together kind of coalescee

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Speaker 1: swap stories just like kind of the traditional you know

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Speaker 1: rendezvous where the trappers would come together, um, and then

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Speaker 1: were rendezvous and his valley They never did in this valley.

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Speaker 1: It's weird, such a great valley. Um. But then you

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Speaker 1: have you know, like they go home fired up. And

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, we accomplished that in spades. Now,

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Speaker 1: when you say the board meeting, the board only gets

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Speaker 1: together once a year, face to face, face to face. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how many people around the board? We have ten? Right now?

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Speaker 1: Are you on the board Nope? Okay, I'm a lifetime member.

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Speaker 1: You saw me try to take notes on the food

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Speaker 1: judging contest yesterday? Oh yeah, I mean we got to

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Speaker 1: mention that I was gonna talk about that. We judged

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Speaker 1: the Wild Game cook and cook Off. Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: five teams had five teams and five different chapters. What

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Speaker 1: was the only five five different chapters. That's just who

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Speaker 1: signed up and who signed up. And it's also, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think logistically, you know, camp Chef was obviously a

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Speaker 1: great partner in that whole thing, and so um, just

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Speaker 1: logistically that's what we could do. And so five chapters

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Speaker 1: stepped up and unfortunately we were I was upstairs, so

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Speaker 1: I would love you to do So. Yeah, five teams

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Speaker 1: did it, and they all had they we had to

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Speaker 1: rate them on presentation, taste, creativity they're trying to remember,

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Speaker 1: also rated them on state. Yeah, Callahan. I looked at

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Speaker 1: Callahan's notes at one point and he had made another

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Speaker 1: category where he wrote down where they were from, which

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Speaker 1: was like just bringing some your biased and do it

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Speaker 1: not even being secret. And then Kaalien took all kinds

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Speaker 1: of notes, and then later when we got together with

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Speaker 1: the judge, he didn't refer to his notes, and every

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Speaker 1: time someone asked him or were tallying the scores, every

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Speaker 1: time someone asked him, he'd kind of look off in

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Speaker 1: the sky and didn't give a number without like, without

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Speaker 1: referring back to his notes at all. Pure genius. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: What were you? Uh, what were you like? Had you

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Speaker 1: memorized your notes or were you like just kind of still,

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Speaker 1: it was very hard for me, and I felt very

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Speaker 1: pressured and everything was really really good and there was

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Speaker 1: no crazy outlier in there. Every I mean everybody put

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Speaker 1: a ton of thought into every dish, and it was

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Speaker 1: weighing on me. A guy made, uh, one of one

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Speaker 1: of the teams made b bimbop the cream dish and

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Speaker 1: then did it with They had it garnished on top

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Speaker 1: with glacier lily, which is very pretty. That was a

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Speaker 1: pretty dish, vibrant colors, and then you know, the nettles

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Speaker 1: don't stood out great. They had there was a dish

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Speaker 1: they had fried quail in it, and then uh, some

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Speaker 1: sort of hoo dani I can't remember what the hoo

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Speaker 1: the animal there was and then they had oh, they

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Speaker 1: had elk hirt in the greens. Oh that was good. No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. It was like a corned elk cart with

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Speaker 1: greens and fried quail and like there was like a

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Speaker 1: couple like a honey because they did like a not

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Speaker 1: a waffle, but it was sort of a take on

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Speaker 1: fried chicken and waffles. And I gotta say, I saw

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Speaker 1: the corn to Elkhart. Uh, I saw a post of

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Speaker 1: it or something. I was like, No, that's not gonna

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Speaker 1: work out. Yeah, but it was great. You know what

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Speaker 1: I did their day? I brined Uh. You were for

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Speaker 1: dinner that night, weren't you? I brined uh moose heart

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Speaker 1: and just smoked it how to go? She was good?

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Speaker 1: Did you like it? Joannie? Keeping? It was good? You

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Speaker 1: didn't like it? It was good. Every time I tried

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Speaker 1: to do anything other than fry hard or slicing, throw

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Speaker 1: it on the barbecue, and I'm just not me it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work out. So now, Ryan, what do you gotta

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Speaker 1: save for yourself? We gotta We got another man here

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Speaker 1: that was gonna say you missed another meal. Callahan was there.

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Speaker 1: Thursday night we had a big what we called tack

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Speaker 1: barn dinner, four of us cooking. Um had some good

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Speaker 1: stuff there. What did you guys do with that? For food? Uh?

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Speaker 1: We it was all wild game hunter gatherer stuff. Four

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Speaker 1: different courses cooked, all camp cook so uh Dutch oven

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Speaker 1: grill over we had hank Shaw did five antelopine quarters

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Speaker 1: over open flame coals, hanging by a big tripod. Killer

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Speaker 1: good that we're dark good killer good. Yeah. We had

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Speaker 1: four dishes. I did elk loin Montana chickpeas. We had

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Speaker 1: Charle McGlen did uh Dutch oven. Lasagna made his own cheeses,

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Speaker 1: two different cheese. Is um, first time you've ever done

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Speaker 1: a Dutch of Amazagna nailed it. Of course, he's a

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Speaker 1: he's a stud of a chef. He didn't make those

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Speaker 1: cheeses out of like, uh, elk and deer milk, did he? Hey? Man,

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Speaker 1: check it out. We met a guy you honestly, we

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Speaker 1: met a guy in Texas who one time, um, because

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Speaker 1: you know the hide hunters, the Buffalo hide hunters used

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Speaker 1: to cut the mamories open and suck the milk out

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Speaker 1: of the mammories and they're butcher and animals. And we

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Speaker 1: met a guy down Texas. Remember that guy, which one

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Speaker 1: the dude that hunts cranes with the zombie cranes. Oh Mike, yeah,

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Speaker 1: nasty fanacy. Yeah he he one time was skinning the

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Speaker 1: dough and and uh he didn't want to admit it,

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Speaker 1: like he told me the story. And then later we

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Speaker 1: were recording one of these, and I said, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: talk about when you were drinking that milk out of

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Speaker 1: that deer you were cutting up. Didn't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. There's a private conversation that he wanted. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're a hardcore man, but we're not there yet. So

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Speaker 1: when the the whole legs, how did you how did

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Speaker 1: did you get cooked into the bone or do you

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Speaker 1: have to just keep catting away and letting it cook

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Speaker 1: more and keep cutting away and letting the coat. It

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Speaker 1: was a challenge on that one because we're cooking in

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Speaker 1: colder conditions than Hank usually cooks him, so it was

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Speaker 1: a little slower for him, but didn't It was rare

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Speaker 1: on the bone. Um, but I'd say we got the

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Speaker 1: we got it. Oh two thirds was cooked just right

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Speaker 1: with rare right at the bone. So we had variations

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Speaker 1: have done us through it. So it was like something

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Speaker 1: for everybody. Yeah. Yeah, and he made his own had

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Speaker 1: his own vinegar. He had over the top of it.

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Speaker 1: Brought sage, wild sage from California cooked in there with it.

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Speaker 1: Was fantastic. That's good. Where were the animal from not

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Speaker 1: from there? Montana members donated them. Yeah, they're pretty short

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Speaker 1: on analope in California. Yeah, they're they're running low over there. Um,

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Speaker 1: So Ryan, explain your role at b H A chairman

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Speaker 1: of the Yeah, I'm chairman of the board of directors. Now,

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Speaker 1: so what do you do? Uh? Well, oh, we'll try

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Speaker 1: to provide some direction and try to bounce ideas off

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Speaker 1: of each other and give Land as marching orders and

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Speaker 1: give the staff um ideas on where we'd like to

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Speaker 1: see the word go. And we've so the board is

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Speaker 1: chief over Land or Land is chief over the board. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: it depends on the day. And who you ask, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's his birthday, so I guess we'll let him be

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Speaker 1: boss today. Land, do me a favorite run through the

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Speaker 1: buckets again? I know you did this four year hour

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Speaker 1: with this, and we did. We spent like an hour

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Speaker 1: around the buckets, but hit me, hit me with the buckets,

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Speaker 1: but hit me in like real shorthand. Yeah. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: we've got three buckets. First one would be that was

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Speaker 1: five buckets, and we changed it because it was too much.

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Speaker 1: Too many buckets you still can only carry. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got I got one of my mouth. I got one

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Speaker 1: of my mouth, So that's good. I know, we got

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Speaker 1: three buckets. First one is access and opportunity. I gotta

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Speaker 1: get back to why how did you lose? Okay, tell

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Speaker 1: me the buckets and explain, because I imagine you poured

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Speaker 1: a bucket into another bucket. We did, yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: give me a trick where that bucket came from. So

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Speaker 1: we have access and opportunities. The first one that was

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Speaker 1: a regular bucket. Um, that's our public lands work. That's

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Speaker 1: our access to public LANs as, our access to public waters.

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Speaker 1: And then on the second bucket, which got a lot bigger,

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Speaker 1: is the back country kind of controvation. And so within

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Speaker 1: that you've got special Places which used to be a

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Speaker 1: standalone bucket. And then you have kind of larger, big

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Speaker 1: scale their nesting pots. Sure, yeah, yeah, that's exactly. And

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Speaker 1: and then and then after that you have like larger

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Speaker 1: things like the Clean Water Act. You know that has

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Speaker 1: implications for everybody. Um, that's a lot bigger than like

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Speaker 1: special places. And then our final one is fair Chase.

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Speaker 1: And then that fair Chase bucket, you know, that's where

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Speaker 1: our drone kind of work comes in. That's where o

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Speaker 1: high fence work is going to come in. Um, and

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Speaker 1: kind of our illegal oh v us is under that

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Speaker 1: bucket as well. Why do you think that people have

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Speaker 1: been able to Well, I don't want to stay at

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Speaker 1: things on top of each other. So I think you

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Speaker 1: kind of explain where the buckets went. It's just like

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Speaker 1: your but but this is just the way you just

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Speaker 1: think in your own mind, right, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: kind of way you guys categorize. Yeah, And we want

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Speaker 1: to make it simple for people to understand what we do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so when I'm into five buckets, people start going

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Speaker 1: to sleep, right, and and so the three buckets and

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Speaker 1: the way I just explained, I think it's pretty sustinct.

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Speaker 1: And so people can understand that right away, Yeah, you can.

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Speaker 1: With the comedian Mitch Hedberg, Um, he died, but to

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Speaker 1: hear that probably the greatest American one of the greatest

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Speaker 1: American comedians ever. But he had a joke where he

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Speaker 1: was um talking about someone gave him, what's the drug

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Speaker 1: you taking? You have a d h D. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: he would take riddling but he's not but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: suffer from the ailment. He would just take the solution.

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Speaker 1: And he said that, um, whenever tell when someone told

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Speaker 1: him something, he'd be like, there's gotta be more to

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Speaker 1: that story fair enough. So no way, I like the

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Speaker 1: five buckets man because I like a long story. But

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Speaker 1: why do you think I want to talk about the

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Speaker 1: drone situation? Because you addressed that last night at the dinner.

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Speaker 1: Oh also did um who wanted buying the float trip?

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Speaker 1: The float trip with you was your mom? Uh No,

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Speaker 1: I won't make my mom pay to go hang out

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Speaker 1: with me. Um, I supposed to get you a loan

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Speaker 1: on the boat and criticize you know. It was Actually

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Speaker 1: it was a friend of mine who after he bought it,

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Speaker 1: as I'm hugging him until he whispered to me, he said,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna work that shift out of you. And so

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Speaker 1: then I told him where I wanted to go and

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Speaker 1: there's a portage and he said he's not going to

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Speaker 1: do the portage, and so that means that I'll be

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Speaker 1: working and I think we'll be going by holes and

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Speaker 1: then just he will say, like make me get out

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Speaker 1: of the boat and like drag it back up the

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Speaker 1: river or row it back up the river. So now

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Speaker 1: he told me last night he's gonna put like forty

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Speaker 1: flies in the willows. It might be an expensive trips. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you talked about the drone issue thirteen states of banned drones.

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Speaker 1: Now why are people why do you think people are

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Speaker 1: able to coalesce around drones when they'd be reluctant to

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Speaker 1: coalesce around other uh technologies being eliminated from the hunting

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Speaker 1: tool kit? Is it because it's totally new? It's definitely

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Speaker 1: part of it, I think, you know, I mean there's

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Speaker 1: no traditional use once you get something established, you know,

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Speaker 1: like when you've got a lot of money at stake,

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Speaker 1: but then you have a lot of people that have

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Speaker 1: already you know, like that that's the way they do business, right,

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Speaker 1: and so on the drone thing, we got out in

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Speaker 1: front of that, and um, you know, there isn't like

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Speaker 1: a a drone hunting association, right like you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean they're a drone owners of the drone lobby. There's

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Speaker 1: a drone lobby, but that's more for dot com Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and so and so. But you know, we want to

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Speaker 1: get in front of it, you know. So there's things

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Speaker 1: like live action cameras on trees, right, and we have

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Speaker 1: their band here in Montana, but in a lot of

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Speaker 1: states that's okay, and like to me, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the same thing. And you know that's already been established,

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Speaker 1: and so that's a lot harder to put that back

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Speaker 1: in the box, right, And so um with the drone stuff,

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Speaker 1: you have people I mean, I think people when they

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Speaker 1: hear about that, they just can't believe that people were

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Speaker 1: starting to do that, right, So we were in a

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Speaker 1: good place when we did them. They give I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many years you'd have to go back, but

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Speaker 1: if you went back to the advent of trail cameras,

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Speaker 1: like right now, if you said, like in a national sense,

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Speaker 1: no trail cameras, people would have a ship fit. Oh

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Speaker 1: yeah there Arizona from Arizona, Wisconsin. I mean just just

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Speaker 1: places where you know here is weird when they did

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Speaker 1: it that you could he had to pull them one

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Speaker 1: season started, right, which I mean that's probably really hard

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Speaker 1: to regulate. But I don't know, if you see one,

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Speaker 1: you see one, true. But I think that's the thing

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Speaker 1: with it with drones too, right, like were you know,

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Speaker 1: there's all these laws about flying airplanes, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and and what you can hunt within like scouting on

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Speaker 1: an airplane. So I think it's twenty four hours, and

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Speaker 1: so we we thought about doing that with drones. But

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Speaker 1: drones are so much less invasive than an airplane. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can hear an airplane and you know when you're

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Speaker 1: in the woods from a long ways away. For a drone,

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Speaker 1: you gotta be pretty close to it. And so um,

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Speaker 1: that's why we didn't do the twenty four hour rule there.

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Speaker 1: We banned him for the entire season. So some guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, if a law enforcement officer sees a guy

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Speaker 1: with a drone during hunting season, that's a pretty easy

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Speaker 1: way to do it rather than the twenty four Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like in Alaska, you got you know, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of hunts you can people don't. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people don't realize it's there's a lot of hunts you

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Speaker 1: can fly and hunt on the same day, you know,

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Speaker 1: for black tail deer and cariboo and stuff. There's some

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Speaker 1: hunts you can some huns you cannot, But now you can't.

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Speaker 1: Like if you fly a drone, you don't hunt that season, right,

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Speaker 1: that's it. That's it, which is a little bit surprising.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad I'd like to see it. I

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Speaker 1: think everybody likes to see it. But again I think

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Speaker 1: it's because it hadn't been in my mind. It just

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Speaker 1: hadn't become entrenched, like it hadn't become like a traditional

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Speaker 1: use issue. And traditions happen real quick if they do,

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Speaker 1: you know they do. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: those traditions that they come with money too, right, I

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Speaker 1: mean you think you just talked about trail cameras. I

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Speaker 1: mean think about the amount. Know what the dollar figure is,

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Speaker 1: but it's got to be in the high millions, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's an industry now that would be taken away,

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Speaker 1: and so it would be people that would fight it.

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Speaker 1: But even more I think the people that are making

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Speaker 1: those things. Yeah. Another thing that's been funny to watch

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Speaker 1: is two way communications. Um, I don't know. Was some

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Speaker 1: friends of mine Wisconsin, they they spend seventy of their

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Speaker 1: time texting the time looking for deer. How's that work

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Speaker 1: out for him? Well if they just text, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then here in Montana, that first two way communications

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Speaker 1: I remember years ago, for one year you couldn't use them,

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Speaker 1: and people were pissed because people like, hey, man, I'm

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Speaker 1: out with my kids. I want to know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I hunt with my dad. He's an elderly I need

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Speaker 1: to know what's happening with him, and so then they

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Speaker 1: clarified the language. You can't use it to assist the

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Speaker 1: same thing in Alaska. You can't use it so you

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Speaker 1: can have it, you can't use it to assist into

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Speaker 1: taking a game, which I thought I wanted being a

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Speaker 1: pretty reasonable Um. I thought it wanted to being a

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Speaker 1: pretty reasonable compromise. But I know, guys, you know, guys

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Speaker 1: especially it seems like down in the Southwest, if they

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Speaker 1: can't have two way radios, ain't going hunting. You know,

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Speaker 1: you get a guy at every point find an animal,

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Speaker 1: nine guys watching it, one guy going after and they're

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Speaker 1: all on radios. A goddamn seal team. What do you

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Speaker 1: think of that? I don't know. I don't I mean personally,

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Speaker 1: you know, you get into this thing all the time.

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Speaker 1: I've had this conversation. I did a like a talk

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Speaker 1: two nights ago in Michigan, and the guy asked me, like,

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Speaker 1: what do you think of baiting? I'm like, I think

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Speaker 1: if baiting is okay where you're at, great, is it legal?

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Speaker 1: You know, if it's illegal, I think you should probably

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Speaker 1: stop doing it. UM. I grew up first, second, third, fourth, fifth,

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Speaker 1: dear I killed to kill over a pile of carrots. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Later I got real curious about what deer doing when

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Speaker 1: they're not eating my carrots. Um. What I learned about

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Speaker 1: deer from hunting over bait is a dea bowl like carrots.

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Speaker 1: As you get more experience, I think you start wondering

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Speaker 1: what they're doing when they're not eating them, and where

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Speaker 1: are they going? And how would you find them if

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Speaker 1: they're going about their natural rhythms, you know, And that's

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Speaker 1: just where I'm what I wound up being more interested in. Um.

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Speaker 1: If I'm out hunting and I'm going after an animal, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's very tempting to have information like hey, man, it left,

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Speaker 1: or a dude that got up and beded back down

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Speaker 1: again twenty yards over by that rock. It's like tempting

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Speaker 1: to have the information. But in the end, after the fact, um,

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Speaker 1: I think that it would I think that it would

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Speaker 1: diminish your memory of the animal. I think you diminish

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Speaker 1: your memory of the hunt when not growing up in Montana, Right,

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Speaker 1: no communicator. I don't know how the loss says it,

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Speaker 1: but you can't use communication to target animals. Or yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were an assist in the taking game. The first

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Speaker 1: time ever hunting out of the state. I'm guiding in Idaho,

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Speaker 1: and you just make some assumptions on some rules and

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Speaker 1: typically if you assume on the side of the animal,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be correct. And we're riding up the trail,

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Speaker 1: got the I'm just learning. The guy ahead of me

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Speaker 1: radio cracks and it's like, hey, you guys just rode

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Speaker 1: past the ball. Oh jump off. These guys are just

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Speaker 1: writing into camp, you know, the clients, and you know

378
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Speaker 1: ten minutes later, dead bull. And I was, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I was just part of something highly illegal. What am

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Speaker 1: I gonna do? Like, what are you talking about? That's

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Speaker 1: how you kill hell cup here? It's totally illegal and

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Speaker 1: I don't and I just couldn't totally takes away from it.

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Speaker 1: And doesn't that prove that legality is only part of

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Speaker 1: your ethics. Well, it's that's tricky as hell, man. Because

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Speaker 1: I brought this point. A lot of guys in the

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Speaker 1: Southeast run deer with dogs that traditional use. They've done

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Speaker 1: it for a long time. If you decided you're gonna

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Speaker 1: you know, people in Michigan, when they see a deer

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Speaker 1: chasing dog, they shoot it. I'm saying, when they see

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Speaker 1: a dog chasing the deer, you shoot at it. So

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Speaker 1: they would act like if I said, oh, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: going up to Michigan, I'm gonna be running deer with

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Speaker 1: my dogs, that'd be illegal, unethical, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: In the Southeast, it's it's a traditional use practice, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think, like I think that that's why the conversation

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Speaker 1: about ethics gets so sticky, because everyone's brought up in

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Speaker 1: their own area, and they're brought up to think that

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Speaker 1: that what they do is the right way of going

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Speaker 1: about things. You know, So it is. It is tricky.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to draw definites. I do have some definites,

401
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Speaker 1: I think, But I think that some stuff that I

402
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Speaker 1: used to think is definite is tricky. Like your carrot deer,

403
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Speaker 1: though your ethics you thought more of that deer after

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Speaker 1: you got strictly from past the legality. It's legal for

405
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Speaker 1: you shoot overcarets, but your ethics led you to something else.

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Speaker 1: Your deer was worth more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it did it.

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Speaker 1: It means more. And in the end, oddly, they really

408
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Speaker 1: started to curtail bait use in Michigan shortly after I left,

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Speaker 1: because the disease transmission, because you're bringing animals in rubbing

410
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Speaker 1: noses and eat and dirt that's infected with their own saliva,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and you wind up having a much

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Speaker 1: higher chance of disease transmission. So they started regulating when

413
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Speaker 1: you put it out, how much you put it out. Now,

414
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: that was kind of on the tail in. So then

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Speaker 1: I think in that case you do wind up in

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Speaker 1: a in a thing where someone's like, it's not healthy

417
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Speaker 1: for the animal, you know. And another thing with technologies,

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Speaker 1: man uh, Eldo Leopold had deadline about well, first, who's

419
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Speaker 1: the guy? Not long ago rold A Peace like, let's

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Speaker 1: stop talking about ethics and fair chase and let's talk

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Speaker 1: about fair use or fair um fair portions. What was that?

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about? Nope, he was just

423
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: saying that we're using the wrong language. His point being,

424
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: you have a well, right well. This is how Aldo

425
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: Leopold put it. You got a well full of water.

426
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 1: If you improve the pump and never improved the well, right,

427
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: the well is not gonna hold up as well as

428
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: it did. So we're constantly improving the pump with technology,

429
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: but are we improving the well. So I think an

430
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: issue like that is if you go like, yes, baiting

431
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 1: is in fact hazardous to our heard depletes the well,

432
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: improves the pump, and then through disease transmission, depletes the well.

433
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: I think that then you get very firmly and do

434
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: an ethical issue. But if you've got a state, it's

435
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: got a lot of deer, and they found it over

436
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 1: the course of many decades, they've been able to manage

437
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: deer at a level they're comfortable with. And people are baiting,

438
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: and and it's how people do it. I have a

439
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: hard time condemning it. The first two bears I ever

440
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: eight were shot off bait from carp and invasive species

441
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: carved to be shot with our bows and frozen and

442
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: uses them bait deer to bait bears with my brothers

443
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: drew bear tags in Michigan. Um, I have no like,

444
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: It's just not that exciting to me to think I've

445
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: never shot a bear over bait. I've been invited to it.

446
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: I have no desire to do it. Just because it's

447
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: just bears eating bait isn't interesting. But I have a

448
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: hard time like acting like all I'm gonna translate that

449
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: into an ethical conundrum. You know, it's hard for people.

450
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: We think about all that land you can't you gotta

451
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: walk a fine line, dude, because you're like I always

452
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: like to clarify whent On talking to Land that I'm not,

453
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: um speaking for us. I don't speak for Land, which

454
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: I'm glad though you are much more eloquent than I am. Well, No,

455
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: but I don't want people to confuse what I think

456
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: with somehow because we're sitting here talking. I don't want

457
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: people to confuse my personal opinions with your official policy. No,

458
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: I mean we don't have an official policy on baiting. Uh.

459
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm with you personally, I have no interest in doing it.

460
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: And you know, and I think sometimes when I hear

461
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: about baiting, it's especially around bears. It's like we have

462
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: better jelly donuts and they did and that's why that

463
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: bear came in. And that, to me is not a

464
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: skill that I want to acquire. Is knowing which like

465
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,239
Speaker 1: doughnuts bring in the bears. That's just me, you know.

466
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: And um, but when you hear you know like that.

467
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: I think it was in Maine, right, I think they

468
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: were talking about the banning of baiting in Maine and

469
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: they talk I mean, they have a large population with

470
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: black bears there and they need to manage them. And

471
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: when you talk to the fishing game, that was a

472
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: tool that they were using. There's no other way to

473
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: hunt them, as there's no other way to them. But effectively,

474
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: it's like when you banned dogs for lions, you're kind

475
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: of banning lion hunting. Yes, right in the East, like

476
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: for instance, where I grew up, or where we first

477
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: familiarized ourselves, like any kind of hunting bears. I talked

478
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: about my brother's journal's bear tags. It's flat swamp, it's hemlock,

479
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: and just like older swamp, you can't see your hand

480
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: in front of your face. There are bears around. I

481
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: think in all my time running around there, I saw

482
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: one bear across the road. I mean, while it's got

483
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: extremely high densities of bears, you just don't see them.

484
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: So to talk about, oh, you're gonna ban baiting for

485
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: bears in Michigan, it's like, okay, but let's just be

486
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: honest what you're doing. You're banning, you're banning bear hunting effectively. Yeah.

487
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: So I I advocated against the mains. I mean not

488
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: that I had any real saying it, but I advocated

489
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: against the thing in Man. So I thought that that's

490
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: what it was doing. I always think about what are

491
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: the private conversations that people have? Right, some guy reached

492
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: the cane to me and he's like, oh, yeah, we

493
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: got up. We're doing a thing where we want to

494
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: ban trapping on public land in Montana. I'm like, that

495
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: doesn't interest me. And they're like, oh yeah, we got

496
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: a lot the hunters were with us, and were theyking Like,

497
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: what is the private conversation of the person. What what

498
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: are they when they're sitting around drinking in their house

499
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: with their buddies, what are they talking about? They're talking

500
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,959
Speaker 1: about how they want to like cut away. Yeah, well,

501
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: and I mean I think on the band on public lands,

502
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: I mean, we do not want to do things like

503
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: that on a referendum, Like it's up to in my opinion,

504
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: it's up to the people who have the knowledge our

505
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: fishing game agencies on how like we regulate, you know,

506
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: in our fishing game commissions. We start doing that through

507
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: about initiative, and that's where we lose at some point, right,

508
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: And I think what you're talking about this chipping away.

509
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: The woman that runs Trap Free Montana, um, I think

510
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: she came actually to that thing that we had at

511
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: the roxy and I don't remember that, um, when you

512
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: were talking about I think you're doing a book signing

513
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: or something there. And she came and she stood up,

514
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: and then she was talking about it, and she was

515
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: starting with uh, with trapping, but really it was about hunting,

516
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: and she was nerves us about being in the woods

517
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: during the fall, right, And and to me, um, so

518
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: it's just it's like for her, it's it's just the

519
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg. When you talk about trapping. There's

520
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: there's more that she's going after. Yeah, I believe in

521
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: incrementalism many I think that everything moves in incrementalism. Death

522
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: of a thousand cuts, right, I mean in a positive

523
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: and in a negative way. I think that the gay

524
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: rights move has been like an increment, very incremental victory.

525
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: That's very incremental civil rights victory, you know. I think that,

526
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: like the civil rights movement, very incremental thing. I think

527
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: the hunting is going the can go in the opposite

528
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: direction of being just a very incremental death. Sure, I

529
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: would say that on like the trapping side in particular,

530
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: I think sometimes trappers their own worst enemy. And so

531
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: like here in Montana, we've been trying to do, you know,

532
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: get some mandatory trapper education, like you'd setting too close

533
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: to trails and just having the knowledge about it, right,

534
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: Like if anybody can go out, you know it's a

535
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: bob boards tomorrow and buy a trap and you know,

536
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: and has no knowledge besides, you know, they just bought

537
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: a trap. And so you know, if bow hunting has

538
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: mandatory education, why shouldn't trapping have that, you know. And

539
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: and so they've they've you know, they've fought that every

540
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: single time the state legislature. And I think that means

541
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: that their own their own worst enemy, right, and so

542
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: that gives people more credence to talk about this banning

543
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: trapping on public land, which I totally disagree with. We

544
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: can see how that path gets there. I had a

545
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: good friend here, you know, I think he said it well.

546
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: He was at the bh A and he said, will

547
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 1: continue to be able to do this as long as

548
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: we behave in a way that's defensible to the public.

549
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: And so part of this, it's on our shoulders to

550
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: do it, whether it's take bow hunter safety or hunter

551
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: safety or maybe a trapping safety class. Definitely don't want

552
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: to see it go away, but we have to behave

553
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: in a way that's defensible to the public when they

554
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: came out with hunter's safety to people bitch about it.

555
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: Uh you're forty one. Yeah, I don't. I don't think.

556
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 1: I don't know that because it's always been contentious. Maybe

557
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: probably because it was like at that point, probably it was.

558
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: I think it was contentious when they came out with

559
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: drivers in. Yeah, someone's probably what you know, Kelly and

560
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: talked about. You know what we're talking about, someone saying

561
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: that they were afraid to be out in the woods

562
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: during hunting season top a boat. If you're comfortable what

563
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: you're telling me about. Remember we had a big email

564
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: chain debating with you and me and Doug Dring and

565
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: my brother arguing about uh, hunter recruitment. And you bring

566
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: up a point about the way skiing is perceived in

567
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: your town and the way hunting is perceived in your

568
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: town relative to hazardous risk. Do you remember this, talk

569
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: about that speak to that. Um, well, yeah, catch your

570
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Idaho skiing is the end all be all. It is

571
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: why you're there. Everybody's a skier. That's how people love

572
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: to identify themselves, even if it's not true. Um, it

573
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: is the only it is like the only like truly

574
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: acceptable form of recreation. I've I've found out there, and

575
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: and uh, hunting hunters get a bad rap. We're in

576
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: the paper there all the time, not ever hunters speaking

577
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: out because for some reason it doesn't make paper, but

578
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: people speaking out against hunters. And I just started thinking

579
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: of how interesting it was that, um, skiing, you have

580
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, multiple just I mean just between Montana and

581
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: Idaho and Wyoming, you have multiple deaths a year and

582
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: people are, oh, that's just skiing. Yea. Also one dudes

583
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: kicked down an avalanche on other dudes. It's not you're

584
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: not even killing yourself exactly. Now, imagine that happening in

585
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 1: the hunting community. It would be would be in a major,

586
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: major fight. Well yea, every year you had two or

587
00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: three gunshot death during hunting season. Yeah, and and some

588
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: of these you know avalanche fatalities there people doing just

589
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: mining their own business and uh an avalanche comes down

590
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: and wipes them out. I'd be like a hunter, you know,

591
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: picking off a hiker. Yeah, let's not perceived that way.

592
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: Not perceived that way. And I just why is that

593
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: it's all a recreation for you to be out in

594
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: the woods. Yeah, come on, um, thanksky, no problem. Let's

595
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: go back to bucket number one. Access. Yeah, yeah, give

596
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: me the lowdown on that. So, I mean, I think

597
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: the biggest thing under access and opportunity is this, uh,

598
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: this whole public lands kind of divest your movement that

599
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: seems to be um very prevalent right now. And you

600
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: know those folks that want to steal our heritage and

601
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: take it for their own. I think that is like that,

602
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: it's the issue. We can't talk about any other things

603
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: if we get that one wrong. Well, tell me this

604
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: because this is this fine is helpful. Put yourself in

605
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: the place of a very smart person. That's gonna be

606
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, hear me out try land. Put yourself

607
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: in the place of a very smart person who's explaining

608
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: to me why we should divest federal lands. What would

609
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: they tell me? Don't spin it. I think they would

610
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: tell you that, uh that local control is better because why,

611
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: I say. I would then say, why because it's their

612
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: backyard and they know it's best for that land. Okay,

613
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: that's what I think. That's what they would say. I

614
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: think definitely you would get though, Um, I mean, I

615
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: don't know anything in this movement that's not based on

616
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: extractive resources, And I think the core of it would

617
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: be in the argument would be our communities exist because

618
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: we can extract resources from these federal properties. The federal

619
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: them is inefficient at allowing us to restract to extract

620
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: resources from these properties in the way that we think

621
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: we should extract resources and we want to be able

622
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: to more efficiently take the resources out to make more

623
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: money on them because by proximity, by proximity, we have

624
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: more of a right to that than other owners who

625
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: are not living in close There's. I think there's two issues.

626
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: They believe that proximity uh allows them more rights to

627
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 1: those resources, and they also believe that distance meaning federal

628
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: federal lands managers who are distanced geographically from their lands

629
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: don't know best how to take which tree, or which mine,

630
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: or which gas well or whatever it is. And so um, yes,

631
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: it's more there's because they're closer to it. But also

632
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: just generally speaking, federal government, you know, isn't perceived as

633
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: the most efficient uh extractor of those resources, and and

634
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: the laws that are adhered to by the Feds, that

635
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: have to be adhered to by the Feds tend to

636
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: slow down, um those sorts of decisions with good reason.

637
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: And you know, um is that sixty character Twitter thing

638
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, who can manage it best? Somebody

639
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: in d C or somebody locally. It's not do not

640
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: have to know more? Yeah, it's not like the office

641
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: there in d C flies somebody out for one day,

642
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: he says, hey, can we cut down this timber? Well,

643
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. Better fly back to d C and

644
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: talk it over with the boys. Yeah, there's regional offices everywhere,

645
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: district offices, the close one. I mean, it's it's crazy.

646
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: There are the people taking under a mandate to do

647
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: a lot more than make there they're opera under a

648
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: mandate to do a lot more than make a temporary

649
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: amount of money for a said individual. Well that I

650
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: think you hit on it. And the one sixty characters

651
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: that we live in a bumper sticker world. You know,

652
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: if you can't boil it down to something that can

653
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: fit on a bumper sticker and piss somebody off, that's

654
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: just not cool. And so these these things that are complex, um,

655
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: like federal lance management, it's a complex thing. You have

656
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: to satisfy all these constituencies. Um, nobody's gonna get their way. Well,

657
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: there are people now who want their way a hundred

658
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: percent and don't understand the complexities of it. My brother

659
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: just made a bumper sticker that says, I heart gluten.

660
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: He just feels bad for gluten. I I can totally

661
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: see Matt doing that. But yeah, I think, yeah, there is.

662
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: I don't know why where did it come from? The

663
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: reluctance to grapple with complex issues we used I mean,

664
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: I really believe the internet and frankly, you know, the

665
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: twenty four hour news cycle plays into this. We used

666
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: to sit around. Frankly, people used to sit around with

667
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: beers and coffee and do what we're doing. Now you

668
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: get on your computer and send a flamer to somebody,

669
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: You get on Facebook and piss somebody off you. You know,

670
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: there's no appreciation, or there's insignificant appreciation for the complexities

671
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: and different and other people's outlooks and working together. So

672
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: now go back into yourselves. Now you don't have to

673
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: play the role the really smart guy who wants who

674
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: wants to privatize federal lands or privatize public lands or

675
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: whatever or have uh what's the word unfettered? Who wants

676
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: unfettered access with no what I would oftentimes see as

677
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: unfettered access with no real eye towards long term future.

678
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: And you can kind of see that at play when

679
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: you watch energy prices. When when like mineral or energy

680
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: prices go up, people get really interested in something, they

681
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: go down, their interest seems to fade, and so you're like,

682
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: so you were kind of looking at this as a

683
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: very temporary thing. You know, it couldn't even hold up

684
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: through a market cycle. But go back to your regular self.

685
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: That's that's me, not land talking, and tell me sell

686
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: me against divester of public lands. M I think the

687
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: I meant, I mean this is like a divester. I

688
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: always add a syllable for some reason. This is what

689
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: is uniquely American, right, I mean, it's what separates up

690
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: from the entire world, that these lands belong to the

691
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: people instead of the short term use. We have this

692
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: conservation ethic which is for future generations. And so it

693
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: doesn't mean no use, doesn't mean no extractiveness, but it

694
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: means it has to balance that for future generations and

695
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: also other uses. And so you know, you you divest

696
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: those either to the states or to individuals, and we

697
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: lose that intrinsic value that I think is uh the

698
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: main piece of fabric that we weaves all across this

699
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: country that is truly American. And and you know, the

700
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 1: the idea that the States can you know, manage this better,

701
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: there's been no study that's been done that says that's

702
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: the truth. And you know, Utah came close and that's

703
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: when oil you know, it was at a real, real high,

704
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: high level and it was like a hundred over hundred

705
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: dollars of barrel and then it dropped out just like

706
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: you just talked about, right, And so now all those

707
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: plans that they had, even though they were short term

708
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: extraction like go crazy and do it, those an't even

709
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: pencil out now. And so they cannot manage those lands.

710
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: And so they'd have a couple of different options. You know.

711
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: You you you either extract that very quickly and get a

712
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: little short time money U or um you raise taxes.

713
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: When was the last time you heard a politician get

714
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: away with raising taxes like that's going to be their platform.

715
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: Nobody does that, right and or at the very end

716
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: of that as they sell it. And I think you

717
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: know Ryan is right that there's there's there's the industry

718
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: that is behind this. The extract of industry. I think

719
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: that's very real. But there's also folks. I mean, look

720
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: at the Wilkes brothers and what they've done in Montana

721
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,959
Speaker 1: here in the last ten years. They're now the number

722
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: one landowner here in Montana. They're trying to, um, you know,

723
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: take a public elk herd in the dirty hills for

724
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: their own. They're salivating watching this all happen and ready

725
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 1: to buy all their bits and pieces of a Marya.

726
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: And you know, they're billionaires and they got the money.

727
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: And it's not just them that I'm worrying about. It's

728
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: the you know, foreign entities like the Chinese. I mean,

729
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: the Chinese are buying places all over the world right now.

730
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: And if they owned our public lands and our clean water,

731
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: I think about how crazy that would be. Oh, they

732
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: do a great job environmentally in their own country, right,

733
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: you know, I would say it's beautiful clouds, those beautiful

734
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: clouds they made over all their cities. It's nice, you know. Uh.

735
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: Some folks on the side of this argument, the pro

736
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: side of the best. Sure, sorry, that's like uh adding

737
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: a syllable there, But um, you know, they believe in

738
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: American exceptionalism. They often tout American exceptionalism and all sorts

739
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: of foreign policy issues and governmental issues and constitutional issues.

740
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: And as far as I'm concerned, you know, one of

741
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: the top two, after our form of government, examples of

742
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: American exceptionalism is what we have in our public lands.

743
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: I don't think you can be a fan of American

744
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: exceptionalism and then want to ruin And the number two

745
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: example in my opinion of what American exceptionalism is, we

746
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: have this thing that every citizen in the United States

747
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: has deed, as you said last night, has deed to

748
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: these millions of acres. There isn't no other group of

749
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: people on the planets ever tried this. Yeah, that was

750
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: one of the frustrating things with me about the wildlife

751
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: refuge takeover in Oregon is the way it draped itself

752
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: in the American flag. In in a very literal way,

753
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: I mean literally like draping itself in the American flag.

754
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: And we're looking at it thinking, but what aspect of

755
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: America are you talking about? It is not the rule

756
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: of law, not the part of America where we don't

757
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: tolerate pointing weapons at peace officers and civil servants. Not

758
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: the part of America we don't terrorize the populace, Like

759
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: what aspect of America do you mean? You know, it

760
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: was just very puzzling to me to see, like what

761
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: part of America were you promoting? You know, yeah, what

762
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 1: do you think would have happened? Like an ices flag

763
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: would bab be more? Well, but what with those guys?

764
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: What do you think would have happened if they were

765
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: of a different religion and they occupied a federal facility

766
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: in some city with uh, you know, armed and threatening

767
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: federal officers, You think we'd let that go on days?

768
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: They would have got dusted up pretty quick. It was, Yeah,

769
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: it was pasive. Like I just don't understand that interpretation

770
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 1: of America that America is that doesn't admire rule of law.

771
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that makes as great

772
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: is like we don't in most cases, we don't need

773
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: vigilantism because we have a way to address the government.

774
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: You know, I'm actually doing it right now. I'm in

775
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: the appeals process fighting the federal government on something I'm

776
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: not in trouble. Your rebel rouser, Yeah, me and Yanni,

777
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: Well that's what you know. You look at those guys,

778
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: don't get me invitance, They say, they're you know, they're

779
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: they say they're they want to adhere to the Constitution,

780
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: But I mean to your points, Steve, for them to

781
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: believe in what they do, they have to first twist

782
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: the hell out of the Constitution so that they can

783
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: read it upside down her sideways in a way that

784
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: nobody else reads it, including every constitutional attorney that's ever

785
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: looked at it. So once you twist it, then you

786
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: can find this odd way to defend it and wrap

787
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: yourself in a flag that we don't recognize. Did you

788
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: guys see the German gale that came by the food

789
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: contest yesterday? It was amazing. She'd exchange student or something. Well,

790
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to me out here. Think

791
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: it just pressed me off too much. The She's like,

792
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: what are you guys doing? Is this a festival? Said, well,

793
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: it's a public lands thing. What are public lands? The

794
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: stuff you don't have? Yeah, it was amazing. All of

795
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, I was like, oh, I'm representing the United

796
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: States first of Germany was like I better get this right.

797
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,280
Speaker 1: All all I could think about was article I recently

798
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: read about you know, going out and meeting your gamekeeper

799
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: and paying your trespass fee because everything's private, and like,

800
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: so you want to take those private lands, like, no,

801
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: they're they're public. You can use them. Do you pay taxes?

802
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: Here's like no, I pay taxes in Germany said oh

803
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: well you can still use these lands and it was

804
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 1: very cool. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know you were engaged

805
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: in diplomacy last night. That's a big day, the ambassador. Um.

806
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: I hear a lot of times people when you're having

807
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: this discussion, Like someone mentioneds recently how the tracing back

808
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: public lands use back to pioneer days? Um? How? And

809
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: I've done it too to say, like, oh, you think

810
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: of a guy like Daniel Boone. You know he came

811
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: from British or you know, English to sin and in England,

812
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: if you get caught on someone's private land, you know

813
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: they would set traps for you and poison you and

814
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: shoot you and you could be hung for it. To

815
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: be hunting on someone else's property. Um, but when those

816
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: guys came here, they were trespassing in many respects, Like

817
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone was often hunting on ground claimed by the

818
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: British in an enormous amount of friction there claimed by

819
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: indigenous groups. You know there was a muddy picture back then.

820
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: I think the only the idea of like sort of

821
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: what we're talking about when we talk about wildlife in

822
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: the public trust and public trust lands is something that

823
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 1: is not new, but very much you know, a nineteenth

824
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: and twentieth century creation. It's an experiment, right, I mean,

825
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: it's it's such a new thing, um that that we

826
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't think we totally know the value

827
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: of it yet, right, I mean, I think when you

828
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: were talking last night, um, you know, it's just having

829
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: it there has this in intrinsic value and I don't

830
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: think we fully realized what that is yet because it's

831
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: such a I mean, the history in this country is

832
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: so young, and particularly the public land history is so

833
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: young that I don't think we understand the breadth of

834
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: what that means to us yet. No, it comes gradually

835
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: because now we've all settled in I mean, both sides

836
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: of the aisle have settled in that. Roosevelt was a

837
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: was a you know, had incredible foresight and was a

838
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: great hero. He had to do. He had a twist

839
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 1: lot of arms and do a lot of shady dealings

840
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: to create the national force that he created. Yeah, the

841
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: Midnight Force. Yea, so he was really pissing people off.

842
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: Now we're like, man, what a visionary. I mean William Clark,

843
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, one of the Copper Kings, was senator at

844
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: that time in Montana when he set it aside. I mean,

845
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: this is a guy that was hanging out a hundred

846
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: dollar bills on the Senate floor to get votes. He

847
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: became a senator in Montana and he fought this because

848
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: they wanted to do nothing but rape and pillage. And

849
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: so it's not like, you know, everybody with this idea,

850
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, that's awesome, good idea. No, people, now

851
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: it's like what you know, what a tremendous you look

852
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: at like, yo, Samity. It's now hit where we widely

853
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: regarded as being a great move Yellowstone. At the time,

854
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: someone could have made a pretty good argument you could

855
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: draw a lot of money, and you still could draw

856
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: a lot of money out of yell Stone. But it's

857
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: becoming our minds now it's like, wow, we're visionaries. There

858
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: was the argument. Yeah, it was contentious at the time.

859
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: I just don't think we're done having that conversation, and

860
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: I think things are gonna keep moving into the realm

861
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: of of Wow. I can't believe those guys had the

862
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: foresight to have this stuff. No one else has it.

863
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: I mean, these these these places that are still like

864
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: they were thousands of years ago. I could become much

865
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: more valuable as this country it develops. Yeah, as the world,

866
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: as the world goes to ship we're going to be

867
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: more and more like I can't believe those dudes have that.

868
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: Think about how it's similar to our government. I mean, uh,

869
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: lots of mistakes were made, we learned, We learned from

870
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: European mistakes, We learned from all sorts of mistakes and

871
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: what mistakes we made as a as a populist, and

872
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: we formed our government a constitution, a government owned by

873
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 1: the people. Same thing happened with with land. I mean,

874
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: we made all sorts of mistakes we've had, We've done

875
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: horrible things to indigenous people's we've but we learned through

876
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: trial and error, and we came up with a lamb

877
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: system very similar to governments owned by the people. These

878
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: are two very similar things, our constitutional system of government

879
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: and our public property, same same sort of thing. Most

880
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: egalitarian thing on the planet as far as I'm concerned.

881
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: I think one of the best arguments for public lands

882
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: in wild places is that we don't want to have

883
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 1: people like like, um, British people who do nature shows

884
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 1: because they don't have any trees in any woods left

885
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: and then you look like like bear grills. He's I

886
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: was like, holy shout, I'm in the woods. I gotta

887
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: get out of here quick for something bad happens, you know.

888
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: And um, yeah, I think that it's like part of

889
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: the American tradition to find comfort in wild places instead

890
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: of having to be like this adversarial relationship. You know.

891
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,959
Speaker 1: That's why I think about it, just to limit Yeah,

892
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: just because I hate those kind of nature shows. Oh

893
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 1: my god, it's an animal run. Speaking of big wild

894
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: places we talked with the other day. When we talked

895
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: to Dan, he was talking about the is it the

896
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: American Prairie Project. Yeah, Are you guys in as h

897
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: involved in that at all or can you speak to that? Yeah,

898
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna keep twisting their arms make sure it stays

899
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: open for for yeah, I mean so, I mean what

900
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: they're doing there is quite amazing, right And for those

901
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: that don't know about this, it's a Central Montana they're

902
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: trying to tie into the Charles m National Wildlife Refuge

903
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: and the Missouri Breaks National Monument uh CMRS about one

904
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: point one million acres. I think they're looking at trying

905
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: to pull together um property at about three million acres.

906
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: And you know it's it's native Willing seller William exactly,

907
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: private market for sale and nobody's forcing anybody to do anything.

908
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: And so I think the American Prairie Foundation has a

909
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: really long term look at this. And and so I

910
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: think they're into almost a half a million acres that

911
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: they have that is dated plus like least Land on

912
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: on on blm Land, and so their ideas to try

913
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: to be able to bring all this together again they're

914
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: able to buy. They do grazy they like get grazing leases,

915
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: They get grazing leases, and they're turning those over so

916
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: that they can have those used for bison. And you know,

917
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: when they get they're getting past the whole brucellosis issue,

918
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty hilarious because you know, elk

919
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 1: in this state carry more brucellosis the bison. But they're

920
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: such an established species that we hunt and that everybody

921
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: loves that nobody's going to touch him. But with a bison,

922
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: old man he might have brucellosis, and so we can't

923
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: have any bison from you know, Yellowstone that are up

924
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: here in a p R or in this this regions.

925
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: What they're doing is they're taking those bisons from Elk

926
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: Island that have never ever you know, up in Alaska,

927
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: that have never been exposed to brucellosis. And so that

928
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: takes that argument away really quickly. And so now they

929
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: don't have that argument. Um, it's it's more about competition

930
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: for grass, which I think it's always been about. And

931
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: so think that's even a debatable point. People will debate

932
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: it all day long. But I don't think the argument.

933
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't think it's about brucelloisis and as soon as

934
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: that bison eats an elk placenta, they could get brucell

935
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: Bison do love elk placena, don't they. I don't think

936
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: so calories are in No. I mean, I think that

937
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: argument it doesn't hold water. It's just one of those

938
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: like red herrings, right, that's easily easily to talk to

939
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: people about, and it's scary. Um. But again, I mean

940
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: the vector there that I think they should be more

941
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: worried about as Elk and you know that's never gonna like,

942
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: nobody's ever gonna take that on. I don't think anyone

943
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: should be worried about. I mean that they should be

944
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: maybe using as their argument, not that they should be

945
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: worried about. Yeah, I love and I've written about that group,

946
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: and I really talked to anyone with that organization. But

947
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: am I clear that they do that that that they

948
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: enroll lands and block management public acts? I shot um um,

949
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: I shot sharp tails on their on their property this year,

950
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, they're I mean, they were being very

951
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: good stewards. And I would love for them, instead of

952
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 1: doing block management to kind of get into like a

953
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: long term kind of easement, like an access easeman, because

954
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: I think everybody's fear is is okay, right now, you're

955
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 1: doing that, so every all these hunters are happy, but

956
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: then they're gonna pull the you know, the rug out

957
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: at some point. And so you know, if they truly

958
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: are committed to access, which I think that they are,

959
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: they should think about doing these long term kind of

960
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: like access easements and so that that gives a lot

961
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: more certainty to this whole situation. And you know what

962
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd get behind I'd get behind their mission

963
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: a lot more if I didn't have, if I didn't

964
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: have similar suspicions about it. Yeah, and it's I mean,

965
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: and and hunters, I think in general are suspicious kind

966
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: of have a suspicious nature, right because every guy that

967
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: grew up in the out of doors has to look

968
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: at a lot of places he used to be able

969
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: to hang out or they used to be pretty good

970
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: and now they're not so good that they can't hang

971
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: out anymore. They're locked up or their least or whatever

972
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: that said. Though, I mean there's phenomenal upland bird hunting

973
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: down there. The waterfowl hunting is very short, but you know,

974
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: they not much water down there, and so before it freezes,

975
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: it's phenomenal. Yeah, it just gets good then it gets over.

976
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: And I mean, can you imagine, I mean you've you've

977
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: I've never hunted bison, um, but like to be able

978
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: to hunt bison in that place, and you know the

979
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: bisons they had, I went out and watched them and um,

980
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: and I was ready to kind of you know them

981
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: to be cows, you know, and like when they saw us,

982
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: they come up and you know, like you stick your

983
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: hand out and they eat out of your hand or something,

984
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: take a selfie with them. Yeah, yeah, that's very dangerous Yellowstone. Um.

985
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: But when we saw them, I mean they were wild animals.

986
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: As soon as we got out of the truck, they

987
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: were running. And by the way, that was gorgeous to watch,

988
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, on the prairie, you know, heard of about

989
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty bison running. Was just gorgeous. But

990
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: I mean there is an opportunity for a true hunt

991
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 1: there and you know down in Yellowstone coming out of there,

992
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: and again I haven't hunted them, and I think that's

993
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: that that as all as all changed, but it's it's

994
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: not quite as much of a hunt as this would be. No,

995
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: I've been down watching that happened, um, and it's not

996
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, yeah, I would categorize more

997
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: like in the harvest category. And I don't think anyone

998
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: who draws that tag thinks of it much beyond that.

999
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: And I've gone down there and observe people doing it. Um.

1000
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: When I drew a tag in two thousand four on

1001
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 1: the Copper River area in Alaska, it's a very difficult hunt.

1002
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,240
Speaker 1: My brother drew that tag last year and they were

1003
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: they blew a number of stocks. I mean, those animals

1004
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: just but you know that they have been there a

1005
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: long time, and they've been hunting a long time, and

1006
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: they've adapted the human pressure, and um, yeah, it becomes

1007
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: it becomes a very legitimate hunt, which I think is awesome.

1008
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 1: But I think the ones, yeah, I think the ones

1009
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: leaving the park have a hard time adjuscent to it.

1010
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: Elk have over you know, Elk have been pursued for

1011
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: so long that they have a tendency to know sort

1012
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: of what the rules are where they happen to be

1013
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: hanging out, you know, and Elk can being in the

1014
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: park and be cool, and he leaves the park and

1015
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: he knows that it's a whole different game going on.

1016
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna take more time for those animals

1017
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: to figure it out. But yeah, I mean personally, you know,

1018
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: I've been admirer of that animal since of of Buffalo,

1019
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: since I found a skull in the Madison Mountains and

1020
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: um and studied up by them a lot, and I

1021
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: think that helping that species become you know, we never

1022
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: we almost have biological extinction. Um now the term people

1023
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: uses ecological extinction, where we got a half million of

1024
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: the animals in North America, I think or privately owned

1025
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: are basically manages as a livestock, you know. And um,

1026
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: I think that would be one of those things hundred

1027
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: years from now, if we were to able to have

1028
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: some large, publicly owned herds that Americans could interact with. UM,

1029
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: I think be one of those things where it became

1030
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: like people would be surprised to hear that there were

1031
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: adversaries to that plan. It become the future, It become

1032
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: the future. El so people like really people didn't want

1033
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: this to happen, like yeah, you know, as they didn't,

1034
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: But think about this. I mean, as hunters, we've played

1035
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: a vital role in establishing just about every game species

1036
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: back to wild Honnable populations in North America were only

1037
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: one short. The only one we haven't accomplished yet, as

1038
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: Pozzis would say, it was bison. And I know there

1039
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: can be opposition to these things sometime, but imagine a

1040
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: small town in eastern Montana near the only free roaming

1041
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: bison herd, Honnable Bison herd in the lower forty eight

1042
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: re established. Do you know how many hunters and sightseers

1043
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: and wildlife watchers and everything would flood to that town

1044
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: every year, it would be like a tourist trap on

1045
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: the edge of Grand Canyon. You get familiar with the writer,

1046
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 1: um uh, Bill Kittridge from a long time Missoula resident

1047
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: brop in Oregon. But he has a book called Hole

1048
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: in the Sky and and it's it's all about issues,

1049
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: land management issues and environmental issues. And you know he

1050
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: was talking about an old version of this called Buffalo commons.

1051
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: It's an idea that keeps coming up. But he in

1052
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: the end of his book he says, um, go to Jordan,

1053
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: Montana and talk about Buffalo comms is a very good

1054
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: way to get your ass kicked. It's it's a contentious issue.

1055
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: I totally understand it. Man. I could put on like

1056
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: a different costume and go argue and probably somewhat effectively

1057
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: argue against it. It's not that I don't see where

1058
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: people are coming from. I understand both sides of it

1059
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: very well. If you go like, oh, yeah, you're you're

1060
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: great grandparents and your grandparents fought very hard and suffered

1061
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: all kinds of economic calamities and gave their hearts and

1062
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: souls to this idea of settling the land, tilling the land,

1063
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: making the desert bloom. And now we want to go

1064
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: and say, oh yeah, yep, but we're going in a

1065
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: different direction now as a society is a hurtful thing

1066
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: to hear. Yeah, I man, I mean, it's one of

1067
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: the toughest places in the world to make a living,

1068
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, as a rancher, I mean, it's

1069
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: it's one of the toughest places in the entire world.

1070
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: And so you know, as that population was established, um

1071
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: and and folks came out to a prospect and you know,

1072
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: and and set up there kind of own flag on

1073
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: a piece of ground like that population has been dwindling

1074
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: since those people came out there, right and and and

1075
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: but they're tough. I mean, they're tough, and they're some

1076
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: of the greatest people in the world. And you can

1077
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: see how they've been watching kind of their populations shrink.

1078
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: You know. I'm in Missoula, where it's all prosperous, you know,

1079
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: and everything is on the up. There's their whole generations

1080
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: where it's been on the down. But they're so tough

1081
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: and they're hanging onto and and it's and I mean

1082
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: I respect that in a lot of ways. And and

1083
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: so I and I definitely see where they're coming from

1084
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: and it's a different, you know, way for them to think.

1085
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it you can almost have

1086
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: both in a lot of ways to write. I mean,

1087
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: this big scary thing about the American Prairie Foundation, it's

1088
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: all willing sellers and willing buyers, right, so you can

1089
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: still have cattle next to license and it's whole Brucelison's

1090
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: issues out the door, right, And so I mean, I

1091
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: mean you could definitely do it, um, but you know

1092
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: that that population has been doing for a long time,

1093
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: and it's because it's a hard place to make a

1094
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: living in order, because because these issues are so complicated,

1095
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: it's it's helpful, I think to try to find some

1096
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: kind of shorthand things. And the thing I often come

1097
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: back to where I'm when I'm trying to find clarity

1098
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: on the issue, often think like like what are the lines?

1099
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,919
Speaker 1: What are my personal lines? I tend to always look

1100
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: at an issue, and I tend to come from the

1101
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: angle of what's best for habitat and wildlife because everything

1102
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: is so complicated, right, and every issue has so many things.

1103
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: But that's sort of what I've decided are like my

1104
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: primary interest. Well, I think it is best for the country,

1105
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: the best or future generations is to advocate on the

1106
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: behalf of the thing that is is most likely to suffer.

1107
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: And I think that wildlife and habitat as we go

1108
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: forward UM are going to be the things that have

1109
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: the greatest potential for loss. I don't worry about running

1110
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: out of roads. I think if we had a group,

1111
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: if we had a meeting this weekend and it was

1112
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: a group advocating on not running out of roads, I

1113
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: don't know how many people would show up for it

1114
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: and donate money. It's just I don't think we're going

1115
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: to run out of roads. I don't think we're gonna

1116
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: run out of concrete, you know, like to save the

1117
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: pavement foundation. UM, it's not going to inspire I think. Yeah,

1118
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:34,919
Speaker 1: it's just like there's some stuff that if you look

1119
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: at what's happening around the world, it's just there's things

1120
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: that are getting lost at a rapid rate. And we're

1121
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: in a good position to find a way to coexist

1122
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: in an economic you know, in an economically feasible way

1123
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: to have prosperity and coexist with wildlife in a way

1124
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: that hasn't been done. I think, you know, using your

1125
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: UM Pavement Association of America or whatever you know it

1126
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: would be the advocacy group. Is that on the flip

1127
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: side of that is that you can you can continue

1128
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: to make roads. Like you said, we're not worried about

1129
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: running out of roads because we can continue to make

1130
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,959
Speaker 1: and make and make more roads. We're not making any

1131
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: more of this bad country, right, We're not making any

1132
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: more of this pristine wild that fishing wild, that habitat.

1133
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: And so that's why I think it's it's and that's

1134
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: like that second bucket, right is this is it protecting

1135
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 1: special places? And there's Since we're not making any more

1136
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: of it, let's make sure that we keep that stuff

1137
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: the way it is right now. Yeah, you never go

1138
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: to your friends. He just bought some property and he's like, yeah,

1139
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put some wilderness in over here, and my

1140
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: hotels going over here, right like you know, I mean,

1141
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: I think another good examples, you know, is wetlands. You know,

1142
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: all these wetlands that are drained um and then people

1143
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: try to make them again. We can't even come close

1144
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: to making them again, you know. I mean, you can

1145
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: kind of have a semblance of a little bit of

1146
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: water in there, but the complexity of those wetlands and

1147
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: all the insects and the plant community is in there.

1148
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: You cannot replicate it, you know, I mean, as smart

1149
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 1: as we are, as much as I you know, love

1150
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: our ingenuity, we haven't figured that out and we never

1151
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: will because that happened over you know, Eon and how

1152
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: that was developed. Funny is that funny case? Studying Phoenix?

1153
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: They made artificial wetlands, but it got destroyed by beavers?

1154
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:28,919
Speaker 1: For real? Alright, is probably be good to take some questions? Oh, yeah,

1155
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna do questions. Yeah, Land lead the question thing? Ryan,

1156
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: all right, is there any questions from the crowd? And

1157
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: I think we'll have to use this other microphone. Is

1158
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: there any questions from the crowd, Just restate the question. Oh,

1159
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: we can do that. It's good. Any questions? Didn't that

1160
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: I didn't invent that. He's done this before, Josh Kins.

1161
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: You we're at a campaign here. The candidates out there,

1162
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: they probs, can they not look at Mount rush for?

1163
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: Where Pedo Rosel's on? The four presidents selected do on

1164
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: Mount Rush for? And then they're up there for Racus

1165
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: saying I want to do something completely opposed to him,

1166
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: his most powerful latencies talk to the mapulating Oh yeah,

1167
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: so and so I'm sure he's probably could be on

1168
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: alt Rushmo left Field had a good face because he's

1169
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: in direct opposition like Theodore Rosemo. No, I think they'll

1170
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: have to chisel down Roosevelt and put up because you're

1171
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: not gonna put him next to the guy. You have

1172
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: to chisel him down and put up a new phase

1173
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: on Well. I mean, I'll hit this without tangentially, I'll

1174
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: hit it. So the question is basically, I think, um,

1175
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: how can politicians now claim to be claimed to carry

1176
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: the mantle of Roosevelt and be anti everything Roosevelt ever did? Um,

1177
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: I would say, it's kind of what Josh is asking.

1178
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: I think our problem with Sportsman and as advocates for

1179
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: habitat is that, through whatever political um nefariousness has gone on,

1180
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: we've allowed our issue to become one of these partisan

1181
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: footballs where it can only be kicked around on one

1182
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: side of the island, not the other. And um, you know,

1183
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: if you go back fifteen years, twenty years, conservation, lands management,

1184
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: environmental policy, these are debated, but they weren't partisan issues.

1185
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: Nobody was against clean water fifteen years ago. Nobody was

1186
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: against public land. You couldn't speak. I mean, could you

1187
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 1: imagine fifteen years ago presidential candidates loudly advocating in the

1188
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: Western United States to divest ourselves of federal land. They'd

1189
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: have been run out on a rail tardan feathered and

1190
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,959
Speaker 1: it was e p as a Nixon policy. Um So

1191
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: I think what we have to do, and what I

1192
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: think groups like v h A do. We're pulling this

1193
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,439
Speaker 1: back to the center where it's no longer a partisan thing.

1194
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: Democrats are for it, Republicans are for it, and it's

1195
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: because it's a good idea. And I believe that most

1196
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: of these people in their heart, they know it's a

1197
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: good idea, but they're in the business of playing political advantage.

1198
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: It's not about doing the right thing. It's about playing

1199
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: political advantage and getting reelected and getting big pack contributions.

1200
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: We got to get it back to where it's doing

1201
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: the right thing, and that's that's what we're trying to do.

1202
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 1: We're not one side or the other. We're pulling it

1203
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:19,439
Speaker 1: back to the middle. So everybody's for it right up front?

1204
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: What for you? A little bit of devil's advocacy here

1205
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: and means not necessarily might assas. But some of the

1206
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: folks who are less interested in the back country and

1207
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,919
Speaker 1: more interested in the extraction might take the argument back

1208
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: and say, well, you know what, America was never populated.

1209
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: Would you want to protect the whole thing? Would you

1210
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: never want to let anybody live here? And do you

1211
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: miss the animals who were extincted? Yes? Yeah. If I

1212
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: could get a mammoth tag tomorrow, I'm all over it. Yeah. So,

1213
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: so no doubt when you restrict the march of industrialization somewhere,

1214
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: does that not full fact people who are not as

1215
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: wealthy as we are. And I say, every funny in

1216
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: this room, is it very wealthy to even be here?

1217
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: Anybody who goes to the background of the hunt, regardless

1218
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: of what you can see your reconolicets, is very wealthy.

1219
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: And the argument give it many times is that when

1220
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: you want to spress carbon the nations where you want

1221
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: to preserve too much background doing so, And it's a

1222
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: bunch of rich guys. Whether you feel like you're the

1223
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: rich guys hold the land for everyone, it's a bunch

1224
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: of rich guys trying to hold back other people in industrialization.

1225
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the arguments here. And I

1226
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 1: have fred progress that us not my advocation, but what

1227
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: do you say land restated? So I think the question,

1228
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: like the restated for me is is that there's this uh,

1229
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: this rich elite. They're trying to protect us from ourselves.

1230
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: Is that fair? And and and and trying to and

1231
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: say that these these these lands are only they're only

1232
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 1: do they want to be set aside for the rich

1233
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,439
Speaker 1: early and not used by anybody else? Is that fair?

1234
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: Very few number of people? You look at, how many

1235
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: people really going to the backup? You about our owners,

1236
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: the stuff on our back. We want the government to

1237
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: preserve this for us, not that other people maybe have

1238
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: their rayed standard of living, better medical cares on. But

1239
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: that's majority of people do not necessarily made direct life,

1240
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 1: so that direct benefits. So you're so, I think, because

1241
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: because I'm what's probably gonna happen is no one's gonna

1242
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: hear that, and we're gonna accid like so I'm trying

1243
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: to find a way. Yeah, that that's great, but everyone

1244
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: else ask a question has to be like a tight

1245
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 1: clean question, but not that that's not tight and clean,

1246
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: but it's gonna be hard to follow. So a gentleman,

1247
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: that's a two pronged questions just Devil's advocate. He's stating

1248
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: people who are into uh, saving animals, preserving wild places,

1249
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: if they went back in time, would they have said,

1250
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: no one can come into America because it's all wilderness

1251
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: and we don't want to lose any wilderness. And if

1252
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: you want to save buffalo, does that mean we should

1253
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: save the short faced bear in the Willia mammoth? Um,

1254
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: let's talk about that part first. It's like, I don't

1255
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: know if people from outer space came and lived here,

1256
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: would they be covered under civil rights protections? I just

1257
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: don't know. It's so um. It's just something that it's

1258
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: a fun thing to juggle mentally. I don't know how

1259
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: it really um. I don't know how it really helps

1260
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: us to ask that question, because it's the kind of

1261
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: thing where you go to someone and they say, I

1262
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: believe in clean water, and then they go, oh, yeah,

1263
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: but you use dish detergent. You're a hypocrite, so nothing

1264
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: you say matters. UM. I can't speak to it on

1265
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: a very personal level. I wish Wily mammoth hadn't gone extinct.

1266
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: I have a wily mammoth tooth. I wish the whole

1267
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: thing was still there with its tooth in it. Um. Uh, yeah,

1268
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just like it's too revised, it's

1269
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: too revisionists for me to even grapple with. And I

1270
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: just sort of tend to look at it like, where

1271
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 1: are we now? What's going on in the world. I

1272
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: think that whatever definition we were to arrive at and

1273
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: how we define and wilderness, how we define wild places.

1274
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: In my mind, um, if we got a giant panel

1275
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: of interested stakeholders together and came up with a working

1276
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: version of what is a wild place and we agreed

1277
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: on that nationally, and then we just said, do we

1278
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,759
Speaker 1: want more of this stuff or less of it? However

1279
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: we define it, I would say I'd like to have

1280
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,560
Speaker 1: a little more. The second part of the question is,

1281
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 1: isn't this all just a bunch of rich recreationalists trying

1282
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: to get the government to curtail people's ability to make

1283
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: a living so that we have a fun playground. It's

1284
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: a great question, Um, that one I think is worth

1285
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: wrestling with. I think that one of the big things

1286
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: about wild lands advocacy and wildlife advocacy is we don't

1287
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: really know what we have yet, and that there are

1288
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: a lot of activities that can occur on it that

1289
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: will not diminish it, including some extraction extractive industries, including

1290
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: very light footprint things. Um, I don't look at wilderness

1291
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: is being defined by people can't go there. Hell's You know,

1292
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: you have the Hell's Canyon wilderness. It has a wonderful

1293
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: avenue through it in the form of the Snake River.

1294
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 1: It's very accessible. People can go and experience that level

1295
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: of wilderness. I think there are many cases where people can.

1296
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: I just don't think that it has minute to minute

1297
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 1: be able to justify its existence based on what's happening

1298
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: there right now. I'll say this too, I think a

1299
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of the beauty of the public

1300
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: lands is an aspirational American kind of thing. I don't

1301
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,600
Speaker 1: get to Alaska there as much as I'd like. I

1302
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 1: wish I was up there, you know, every other week.

1303
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: Even if I got there only one time in my life. Hell,

1304
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,600
Speaker 1: even if I never got there, the aspirational nature of

1305
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: being there me dreaming about it is worth something to me.

1306
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: A single mom in Chicago. She may never get to

1307
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: Glacier Park, she may never get to the Badger Tombad

1308
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: or the Flathead National forest, but it's an aspirational thing.

1309
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: She can go, you can dream about it. That aspiration,

1310
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 1: that and that sort of aspirational stuff is driven Americans

1311
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: for you know, over two centuries. And if you remove that,

1312
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: even the ability to do it, the aspiration goes with

1313
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,560
Speaker 1: it is gone. So just because I would say to

1314
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: to a single mom who might say that it's not

1315
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: just for Yeah, we're using it a lot, maybe we

1316
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 1: use it more than everybody else, but it's there for

1317
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 1: everybody to use if you want to. You can aspire

1318
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: to do it because it's there. There's some inspirational, soulful

1319
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 1: thing of it just existing, so you can do it.

1320
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 1: You can dream about it. But if someone came to

1321
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: me and said I'm gonna make it, if someone came

1322
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 1: to me, like like God came down and said to me,

1323
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a deal with you. I'm either gonna

1324
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 1: destroy the boundary waters or you and any child you

1325
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 1: ever have and any children that ever come from any

1326
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: children you will ever have, can't go there. I would say,

1327
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: we'll step back. So I don't think that it's always

1328
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: a highly personal thing. Do I like to go there? Yeah?

1329
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: It does me going into these places affect them in

1330
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: a long term negative weight. No, if I had to

1331
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: decide between my access and its existence, what would I

1332
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: go with? I would go with its its existence. There

1333
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,879
Speaker 1: are many places I will never go. I just probably

1334
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 1: won't get to all of them. Does that mean I

1335
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 1: have antipathy towards their well being? I think it goes

1336
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,759
Speaker 1: beyond the personal well I want to I'm gonna address

1337
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: like give been an answer of some might you know

1338
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: might ask him this, um, it's now being presented as this.

1339
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: I think the genesis of the question is that, well,

1340
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: you are an assumption based on it is you're sacrificing

1341
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of other jobs and economic opportunity because you

1342
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 1: guys want to hunt there. You're making the rest of

1343
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: the company country suffer economically because you guys want to

1344
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 1: protect your elk hunting spot. I say, no, what about

1345
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: the elk hunting jobs, the guides, the outfitters, the restaurants,

1346
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: the towns. What about these What about these vibrant communities Missoula, Montana, Bozeman.

1347
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 1: They're based largely on outdoor recreation. There are jobs associated

1348
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: with the wilderness. It's not just all or nothing. There's

1349
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: other kinds of clean jobs. I mean, I work in

1350
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: an industry. We were all here because of it. You know,

1351
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: it's not tied to a volatile market. We wouldn't be

1352
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: in the fight that we're in. If these uh single

1353
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 1: moms in Chicago, to stick with that example, they may

1354
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: see these places as aspirational, and I hope they do,

1355
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 1: but they will not fight UH fraction as hard as

1356
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:28,799
Speaker 1: we do without being there for themselves and and seeing

1357
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: what it really is. And and I think those are

1358
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: the people they're going, Oh, National Forest, I don't even

1359
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: know what that is. That's on the other side of

1360
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: the country. You know, they're yeah, understanding, appreciate. I recently

1361
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: had a conversation. We've been working on a documentary project

1362
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: and as part of it, I interviewed at length UH

1363
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: animal ethicist. He's a he's a professor, he teaches animal ethics.

1364
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: He's animal rights advocate UM activists. And we're in a

1365
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: conversation about how you saying he was. I was asking

1366
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 1: him like, let's say you're a really smart hunter. Tell

1367
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,640
Speaker 1: me what you think a really smart hunter would tell

1368
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: me to justify his existence the same way I did

1369
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: the land earlier. And he talked about, oh, you would

1370
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: tell me about all the money you guys spend on

1371
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: wildlife habitat and wetlands. We kind of holding on the

1372
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: duck idea and talking about ducks on limited. He's like that,

1373
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: you tell me that you spend all that, But I

1374
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 1: would just say, you're just doing that because you want

1375
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: to shoot it, right, And I was describing to him

1376
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: after this. I was describing him, you know what happens

1377
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: when you go to ducks on limited banquet and people

1378
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: who hunt maybe a day a year go and spend

1379
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: hundreds or thousands of dollars and give money to an

1380
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: organization that is just going to turn around and buy

1381
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: wet lands and open it up to the public. And

1382
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,640
Speaker 1: he's going, oh, yeah, but yeah, but they only are

1383
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: They only do that because they want to kill ducks.

1384
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, you know what, I don't care what

1385
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: they're doing it for. If it takes some level of

1386
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: exposure to wild places to turn you into an advocate

1387
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: of wild places, does that then make it a negative

1388
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: because you have this ulterior motive. I'm like, oh, I

1389
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: know about advocating for it because I've experienced it. How

1390
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: can you expect that? How can you expect it to

1391
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: How can you be suspicious of a person who advocates

1392
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: on something, but you're suspicious of them because they like

1393
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: it too. Who doesn't do that? I mean, who advocates

1394
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: on ship they don't like So it's just it's like

1395
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: the weirdest roundabout argument to be like, oh, yeah, you

1396
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 1: just like you just want to save it because you

1397
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: like it, or you caught me red hand. Yeah, I

1398
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: do love it a whole bunch, you know. I mean

1399
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 1: the way I would answer that question when somebody says

1400
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: that you're just setting it aside um for this elite

1401
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 1: kind of hunting preserve or whatever, I would ask them

1402
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: a question before I answer that, And I said, do

1403
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: you like clean water? Our clean water starts on public lands,

1404
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: and so do you want to make sure that you

1405
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 1: have clean water? That's the that's that's the question. Yeah.

1406
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 1: Now I would get into that too. Just like you

1407
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: don't understand ecologically, we don't understand as a people ecologic

1408
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: what these places mean entirely. I mean, you have this

1409
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: like interwoven connectivity. I recently heard this theory that was

1410
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: really interesting where a guy was taking He was saying

1411
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: he was looking at the ocean as an organism that

1412
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:18,640
Speaker 1: you would take an entire ocean and say it's an

1413
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: organ is the same way we have like our body, ourselves,

1414
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: and we're comprised of organs and fluids, right, and electrical

1415
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: impulses that allow us to move that. He's like, imagine

1416
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:29,639
Speaker 1: that we have the ocean and we treat the ocean

1417
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: as an organism, and the fish, all the fisher, organs,

1418
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 1: everything that happened there. It's like this living being and

1419
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 1: think of it that way. I think you can think

1420
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: of our cology in that way, and we don't really

1421
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: know what we're gonna lose in other places by messing

1422
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 1: with these things. Look at one, when agricultural practices in

1423
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: Louisiana and Texas changed and they started doing a lot

1424
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:58,679
Speaker 1: more rice production, you created such an explosion of snow

1425
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:04,480
Speaker 1: geese that it's denuding portions of the Arctic and damaging

1426
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:10,839
Speaker 1: wildlife habitat in the Arctic. It's a long ways from

1427
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: Texas to the Arctic, but you create a wave that

1428
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: travels with activity. I don't think we're really understand in

1429
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: a wildlife sense and in a clean air and clean

1430
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 1: water sense, what would happen if we don't draw the

1431
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: line on wildlands protection. I don't think it's just gonna

1432
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: be like you can just pluck it away and act

1433
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: like that's gone, but everything else stays the same. We're

1434
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: not done making mistakes. I mean, we've done ridiculous stuff

1435
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 1: and made ridiculous mistakes, and now we laugh about what

1436
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: our grandparents did. Our kids and our grandkids are gonna

1437
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: be laughing about ship we're doing right now that we

1438
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: think is perfectly normal. Hope they're laughing in the back.

1439
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 1: Much briefly on badrics you mad and Glacier, and then

1440
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: also of water because you talk maybe a little bit

1441
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,719
Speaker 1: about what's still going on on the tribe. It's Bessie,

1442
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 1: what's going on the tribe up there? And what was

1443
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 1: trying me down? And where we're at with that? Yeah, so, um,

1444
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact number of leases, and I

1445
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:19,799
Speaker 1: don't remember. Won't restate that question, Okay, So the question

1446
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 1: is what's going on with the Badger two medicine? And

1447
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 1: I'll orient everybody about what that is. That's a area

1448
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: of the Rocky Mountain Front, essentially south of Glacier Park

1449
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: in Montana, all the way down to Chodo. Um. It's

1450
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: about a thirty five mile by thirty five mile area UM,

1451
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:40,679
Speaker 1: sacred to the Blackfeet Indians, sacred to me personally. UM.

1452
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: In the eighties, there were oil leases let in the

1453
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: Badger too med and it has long been argued by

1454
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:53,560
Speaker 1: the Blackfeet tribe the improper UH environmental review was followed

1455
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 1: before those oil leases were let because the tribe was

1456
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: not giving was not given UM proper overs at a

1457
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: proper comment period on it. That's been fought in the

1458
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: courts for quite some time. Company in Louisiana called solan

1459
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: X has one of these leases, and solon X stepped

1460
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: up a few years ago and decided, well, out of

1461
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: the several companies that own several of these tens of

1462
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 1: thousands acres leases, we're gonna push it. We're gonna drill there.

1463
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 1: We're gonna call the bluff, we're gonna see what happens.

1464
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 1: And so they started pushing to drill, exploring, sending, you know,

1465
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: applying for permits. They're saying, we're gonna drill. And so

1466
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,919
Speaker 1: these leases had just been set there kind of simmering

1467
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 1: for some time in a place that's you know, really

1468
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: really is a sacred, beautiful place. UM. My kid's name

1469
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 1: badge after the badge of two medicine. Um, well, just

1470
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 1: recently the federal government decided with the Blackfeet tribe, we

1471
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: have one of those leases. The federal government said, you

1472
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 1: gotta do whatever you gotta do or get off the pot.

1473
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 1: And you either got to cancel the leases or you

1474
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:51,519
Speaker 1: gotta let them drill one or the other. You gotta

1475
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: go and find the federal government Sally Jewel Environmental secretary

1476
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 1: or the Interior secretary canceled the lease. So we have

1477
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,759
Speaker 1: one gone, but there's still a whole bunch of leases.

1478
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 1: There's we think probably that the president is is that

1479
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: that's going to be too difficult to drill there, and

1480
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: we'll hope for some kind of system to retire or

1481
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: buy out or whatever the rest of the leases. We

1482
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 1: have a good precedent, it's on a good path, but

1483
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:19,600
Speaker 1: the fight's not over yet. Up front. Yeah, So you know,

1484
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: the n r A does their candidacy indoors from the

1485
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: rate candidates political candidates in like Yo, we are free

1486
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:31,600
Speaker 1: national delegates all get a radis. But they're also the

1487
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 1: ones we the char for the transfer of public land.

1488
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 1: So I'm curious if he's been talks of maybe like

1489
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 1: doing some sort of rating system for candidates that are

1490
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: positive for public plants. Yeah, so the question is is

1491
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 1: uh is b h A ready to kind of start

1492
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 1: rating candidates right and letting people know where they stand

1493
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: on issues. Uh so this last year or in this

1494
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,839
Speaker 1: cycle right now? Um, you know there's with the presidential candidates,

1495
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 1: they all went down to Nevada and um, and then

1496
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: I think it was the Renal Journal that asked them questions.

1497
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 1: There was five questions. One of those was about public lands,

1498
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 1: and so it was a great way for us to

1499
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 1: without doing like a candidate scorecard, to like just just

1500
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: provide information to people. Now, I will tell you that

1501
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: the legalities of a scorecard are very complicated because right

1502
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 1: away they're looking like endorsements and you know, and and

1503
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 1: so you have to be very careful as a five

1504
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:30,759
Speaker 1: oh one c three, which we are where we cannot

1505
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 1: engage in political politics at all. So it's be very

1506
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,639
Speaker 1: careful of that. And you know, the I've been involved

1507
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 1: in the scorecards, and what the way that you kind

1508
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: of get around that is have instead of having like

1509
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 1: two questions about public lands that are very leading, you

1510
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,680
Speaker 1: have to have a big array of things that you

1511
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 1: ask them, right and and that threshold is I mean,

1512
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 1: that's it's very complicated, but that threshold you can do it. Um.

1513
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 1: Is that something that we want to do? I say, yes,

1514
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 1: do we have Do we have the resources you know

1515
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 1: to be able to do that? Uh? This last cycle? No? Um,

1516
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 1: But I think it's something that's uh, you know, providing

1517
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: information to people is something that we're supposed to be

1518
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 1: doing right and giving them letting them make their own decisions.

1519
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 1: And so without us endorsing candidates, which we cannot do,

1520
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 1: we can provide that information. I think that's something we'll

1521
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,679
Speaker 1: probably do in the future. You know, I totally agree

1522
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 1: with landing without getting in the exact politics of it.

1523
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,120
Speaker 1: Are endorsing anybody or anything? And back to Josh's question

1524
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 1: a bit. I firmly believe that until some people lose

1525
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 1: their races because of their public land stances, it won't change.

1526
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not saying who it is or

1527
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: who is endorsed or not, but until a sportsman rise

1528
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: up and penalize people at the ballot box, this is

1529
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: not going to go away. Because there's political advantage in it,

1530
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:45,839
Speaker 1: and we have a lot of power. By the way,

1531
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 1: it's unharnessed yeah, it's I'm not gonna get too deep

1532
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: into presidential politics, but it's been. It's frustrating to me

1533
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 1: that of all front runners either party, there's not a

1534
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 1: person who has even an idea of a background in

1535
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: the out of doors, an idea of a background and

1536
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 1: and and hunting fishing. Um. I don't think it's over,

1537
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: but you know, we've had such a strong tradition of

1538
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: of outdoors people in politics in this country, and there

1539
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: are some phenomenal senators and congressmen who have, you know,

1540
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 1: a strong land ethic both sides of the aisle. We're

1541
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,680
Speaker 1: just we're lacking at right now. I know a lot

1542
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 1: of hunters get frustrated because either have you got one

1543
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 1: party who tends to advocate on behalf of wilderness and

1544
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: clean air and clean water, you got another party that

1545
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 1: tends to advocate on behalf of firearm ownership and hunting

1546
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 1: heritage and UM. I always feel like a political eunuch

1547
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 1: because you're just you're torn between these two things. I

1548
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 1: lament the days um of having both. I think that

1549
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a name. There's a guy,

1550
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 1: there's a senator out of New Mexico that I think

1551
01:22:55,360 --> 01:23:00,040
Speaker 1: hits a very like a wonderful balance. Yeah, super to

1552
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: start for us. Yeah, strikes of wonderful balance between hunting, heritage,

1553
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:09,639
Speaker 1: firearm ownership, clean air, clean water, wild their habits at

1554
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:13,200
Speaker 1: But right now it's just absolutely missing from the political realm.

1555
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: John Tester, same thing. So you heard it here first,

1556
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: Steve Ronello for President. Nope, I talked about a whole

1557
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that most Americans could care to less about.

1558
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 1: Man couldn't care less about, you know. To Steve's point, though,

1559
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 1: that's why organizations like b H are so important. Because

1560
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:36,840
Speaker 1: we don't have Teddy Roosevelt's uh in office. It's gonna

1561
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 1: take advocacy from very sharply minded organs like us to

1562
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 1: influence policy, you know, in the smoke filled rooms, and

1563
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 1: without you know, orders like us doing it, we don't

1564
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 1: just have the innate knowledge of it in the corner

1565
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 1: office anymore. I was laughing at this internal, very brief,

1566
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:59,719
Speaker 1: internal debate I was having when you mentioned the Badger

1567
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:03,599
Speaker 1: two Edicine, because it is a very very special place

1568
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: and I love it, and I was listening to you

1569
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 1: talk and thinking, I don't say that, don't say it's beautiful,

1570
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: And I'm like telling there's a lot of grizzly bears.

1571
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 1: Don't go up there, you know. But in every hunter,

1572
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: every fisherman, any birdwatcher, you know you have your special

1573
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:22,639
Speaker 1: spots and you don't want to show up and see

1574
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 1: other people there. But you've got to be open about

1575
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 1: this stuff now, and you know it's time you got

1576
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 1: to take the gloves off and be willing to say, Hey,

1577
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 1: these places are incredible. You should go there. Just so

1578
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, I've been known to fly across the room

1579
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:39,720
Speaker 1: grab the phone out of my wife's hand as she

1580
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 1: starts to mention utter the first letter of the name

1581
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 1: of a creek. I might have been in her So

1582
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,880
Speaker 1: for me to even mention this place, I will tell

1583
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 1: you I killed the bowl in the batch of tomad

1584
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: Uh two or three years ago. I saw six different

1585
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: Glusay bears the day I killed that bowl, six different bears.

1586
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: So I'm not lying when I say there's a bunch

1587
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: of bears there. But I like those places. We allys

1588
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 1: uh well when we're our cold is steing Cole Creek

1589
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 1: for every creek, every creek? All right, you got in

1590
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 1: the concluding thoughts were done with questions, Oh no, we

1591
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: need more questions. I just I don't know how long

1592
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,800
Speaker 1: has been been, just over an hour really, two or

1593
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: three things that um, folks that are listening to this

1594
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:30,639
Speaker 1: podcast going to do after or lands, whether the lawn

1595
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: Chicago or whether it's sportsman or just aspirational, what would

1596
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 1: they they you to talk? So the question is is

1597
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 1: what can the listeners of this podcast do to advocate

1598
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 1: on behalf of these wild places? It's up fair? Can

1599
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: I give one and you give to sure number one?

1600
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 1: You gotta start voting your sport. You gotta strip your

1601
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,400
Speaker 1: sport from the rest of the partisan politics. Make ballot

1602
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 1: box decisions based upon this stuff. If it's important to you,

1603
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 1: So I totally agree. Um, I would say join an organization.

1604
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm I'm selfish, and so I said,

1605
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:16,400
Speaker 1: join back Country Hunters and Anglers because I think we are,

1606
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 1: um you know, we're tapping into something and we are

1607
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: the advocates for public lands. So join b h A.

1608
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:25,639
Speaker 1: But if you know you want to join the Elk

1609
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: Foundation that helps protect Elk habitat, ducks On Limited that

1610
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 1: helps protect duck habitat, mean the list, I mean, you know,

1611
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 1: National Wild Turkey Federation. There's many many groups out there, um,

1612
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:41,599
Speaker 1: and often times people like one of the UM. I'm

1613
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 1: gonna let you get back to your list. But one

1614
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 1: of the things that an organization like this provides is

1615
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 1: a sense of camaraderie, brotherhood and sisterhood. Right. You can

1616
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 1: meet like minded people and share information. I mean, there's

1617
01:26:55,040 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: a tremendous um reservoir of experience to draw for um.

1618
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: If you have a passion for particular type of hunting,

1619
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 1: particular type of fishing. Let's say your thing is trolling

1620
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 1: salmon on Lake Michigan, you can find an organization that

1621
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: is fighting for clean water in the Great Lakes, you know, um,

1622
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 1: and then you will find like minded people and and

1623
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: get a lot out of that engagement. I would you know,

1624
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 1: and truly if if, if, if you want to, if

1625
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,639
Speaker 1: you care about public lands, there's not another organization besides

1626
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 1: the BHA that's advocating for you. These other organizations that

1627
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:34,639
Speaker 1: do great work. A lot of that's on private land,

1628
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,679
Speaker 1: which is vitally important. But if you like public lands,

1629
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 1: BHA is gonna defend that such very species specific. We're

1630
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 1: not we're ecosystem why so I think that's one and

1631
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 1: that's another big plug for b h A. But I

1632
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 1: think too is make a phone call. You know, I

1633
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:53,800
Speaker 1: mean a lot of people think that their voices don't count.

1634
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:56,760
Speaker 1: And you know, we had we had Centator Tester here

1635
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 1: earlier this week, and we're asking them how can we

1636
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 1: be better advocates? Like what can we do? Your voice

1637
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 1: counts is what he told us. He said, when somebody

1638
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: calls them on the phone, that represents a hundred other

1639
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 1: like minded individuals. So then that's one call. Let's have

1640
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 1: ten calls in a day. That's a thousand people back home.

1641
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 1: That's starting to get somebody's attention. So that was the

1642
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 1: first one, make a phone called. Second one is as newspapers,

1643
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 1: you think they're going away, but they're still read very widely.

1644
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 1: And you know, senators and congressmen have staff that every

1645
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 1: single day they go to those editorial pieces of the

1646
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 1: paper and if that senator or congressman's name is mentioned,

1647
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 1: that thing is flagged for them right away. And so

1648
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 1: while we that's kind of a venue that's going away

1649
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 1: in a lot of people's minds, it's not the chip

1650
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: shots on social media exactly exactly, and so it's something

1651
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:49,879
Speaker 1: that has staying power. And so I like getting involved,

1652
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, we can help you do that,

1653
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 1: but you can do that as an individual as well.

1654
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 1: So those are the like the two things that I

1655
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 1: would say. I think too, it's important for people to

1656
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 1: to learn how to parse out the planks and the

1657
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 1: politician's platform. You know, it's easy to fall into. I

1658
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,800
Speaker 1: guess so sick of hearing people tell me, like, you know,

1659
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: oh I'm a liberal, I'm a conservative. I mean, boy,

1660
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:17,760
Speaker 1: good luck applying that to me, because I go by,

1661
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: give me an issue, man, give me an issue. And

1662
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 1: I think that if you admire a certain politician and

1663
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 1: they have, you know, a platform made up of many,

1664
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,880
Speaker 1: many different things, you don't need to go piece me.

1665
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: You don't need to go like wholesale throw in with

1666
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,280
Speaker 1: them on it. You can challenge them. You can still

1667
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 1: like that person and like what they stand for and

1668
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 1: challenge them on particular issues, and people can move someone

1669
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,719
Speaker 1: in the right direction on a particular issue. It doesn't

1670
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 1: mean you're abandoning your political identity. I think it's hilarious

1671
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: when politicians are called flip floppers. You know, now, if

1672
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 1: if they're flip flopping back and forth within a week,

1673
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 1: that makes sense to be but what you just described

1674
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 1: to me is getting more knowledge and and having a

1675
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: different view on things, which I if I if I

1676
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 1: was beholden to everything I thought when I was an

1677
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,960
Speaker 1: eighteen years old, if I was beholding everything, I'd still

1678
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 1: be shipping my pants. It's like people change over time, man,

1679
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,599
Speaker 1: exactly right. And if you're not, if you're not using

1680
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: the environment around you to help educate you and help

1681
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 1: you evolve, then you're stuck in this space, right and

1682
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:26,640
Speaker 1: you're just this dogmatic views. And so I think you know,

1683
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 1: when people um uh are educated and and and learn

1684
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 1: more about an issue and they change that, that's not

1685
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: a flip flopping. That's evolving. To me. Yeah, I always

1686
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 1: admire someone one if they've had an opinion and then

1687
01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:44,439
Speaker 1: later on they have to say, based on what I'm

1688
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 1: hearing from my constituency, I'm gonna have to support this

1689
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 1: because in that way it is it's like you can

1690
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: take that too far. But in that ways, when there's

1691
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:56,599
Speaker 1: like overwhelming pressure from the majority of people, I think

1692
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: it's perfectly acceptable for political figure to say instinctively, I

1693
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,639
Speaker 1: was supposed to this, but I cannot ignore what I'm

1694
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:10,600
Speaker 1: hearing from my constituency. If this is overwhelming. I have

1695
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 1: to go against my what my my gut reaction on

1696
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:20,000
Speaker 1: this and support wilderness or any number of things. You know,

1697
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, we're too like, you know, we're it's

1698
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: too easy to be like, oh, you're a flip flopper. Yeah,

1699
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:26,439
Speaker 1: but again, if someone changes there, if someone says something

1700
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 1: and then there's an immediate Twitter revolt and they go

1701
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:32,439
Speaker 1: a hunter eight degrees, It's different than having then listening

1702
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:36,680
Speaker 1: to your people who are just driving you insane by

1703
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 1: telling you you're wrong on this, you're wrong on this, this,

1704
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 1: and then you change your opinion about it. That kind

1705
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 1: of stuff happens all the time. Man. We should embrace it,

1706
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 1: and you can move it. You can move people in

1707
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:49,240
Speaker 1: a certain direction just by being around them, articulating them

1708
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:51,960
Speaker 1: and not being I'm being an a hole to them,

1709
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 1: but trying to explain where you're coming from. We did it,

1710
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 1: Badger too mad, We did it. I mean, that's a

1711
01:31:56,040 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 1: great example. We move people. We motivated b A. You

1712
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: help motivate our members. We sent letters, we made calls,

1713
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 1: we went to meetings, we contributed um, we swayed opinion,

1714
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:11,479
Speaker 1: We got u s Senators asking Secretaries of Interior to

1715
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: cancel leases. I mean we can on both sides that

1716
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 1: we can make we can have impacts. Um, there's a

1717
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 1: lot of victories we've had. So you're saying the people

1718
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 1: spoke up and the government made changes on behalf of

1719
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 1: the people the shot at them, right, Yeah, I know

1720
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 1: it sounds weird, but it works. You know, instead of

1721
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 1: like like you said to your Facebook, instead of just

1722
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,760
Speaker 1: throwing something up there with half baked facts to piss

1723
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 1: off the whole world. Um, you know, try being constructive,

1724
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,639
Speaker 1: make a call, get involved. They listen. They listen way

1725
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 1: more than some men on Facebook. I like that. Well,

1726
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 1: last question. There on the left have talked pretty extensively

1727
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:56,280
Speaker 1: about preserving the ecological integrety probably I used felt generations,

1728
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 1: and we hadn't really talked about what is pass the

1729
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 1: elephant is corner, and that is that the same science

1730
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:06,640
Speaker 1: that we rely on for our management decisions, for our

1731
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 1: biological matter's decisions, for our eutological integrity assessments, and suggesting

1732
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 1: that by a lot of the lands that we rely

1733
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 1: on for the production of the animal species that we

1734
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:20,760
Speaker 1: care intense and about are going to be very significantly

1735
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:23,680
Speaker 1: harmed by climate change. So what do we do as

1736
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 1: sportsman and sports women and life and its associations that

1737
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,960
Speaker 1: are interested in preserving the ecological integrity of these lands

1738
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 1: to consider climate change is an issue. So the question is, all,

1739
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:41,040
Speaker 1: this is great, but what about climate change? Is that fair?

1740
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to answer as quickly as possible because

1741
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:47,479
Speaker 1: we should just have a whole other discussion of this

1742
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,400
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half. I think that the

1743
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 1: solution about saving wild lands and wild places I think

1744
01:33:54,920 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 1: is is the solution is personal and political. I think

1745
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 1: the climate change issues, it's uh technological that issue. I

1746
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 1: don't think that issue is going to be resolved by

1747
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 1: American restraint. I don't think you canceling your vacation is

1748
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: going to move the needle on climate change because you're

1749
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: not going to be in a jet. It's like there

1750
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: are some gigantic countries out there who aren't thinking about this.

1751
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,439
Speaker 1: I think that the solution is going to come from

1752
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 1: technological advancement, is going to come through market incentive. On

1753
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:35,519
Speaker 1: the on the wildlife side, it's a monster issue. Um.

1754
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 1: Anybody who thinks about this stuff, I think personally struggles

1755
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 1: with it. I say, the beautiful thing from a wildlife

1756
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 1: from a b H. A kind of standpoint is even

1757
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 1: if you even if you, even if you struggle climate

1758
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 1: change and what if and all that stuff, Um, you

1759
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 1: can't tell me that preserving wildlands is contrary to good

1760
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 1: science on climate change. Perhaps it's not enough, but I

1761
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: know we're gonna be on the right side of history there,

1762
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 1: even even if history is a little uglier than I

1763
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 1: it proves to be a little uglier than I wish

1764
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:08,080
Speaker 1: it was. Preserving some more wildlands is not going to

1765
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:10,720
Speaker 1: add to climate change. You know we're on the right

1766
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:13,519
Speaker 1: side of that. The way I would answer that is

1767
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:17,800
Speaker 1: that you know, we are seeing impacts already from climate change,

1768
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:22,800
Speaker 1: and what we need to do to help fishing wildlife

1769
01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:27,160
Speaker 1: have a chance as this world changes is keep these

1770
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 1: wild places so you have connectivity of habitat, whether that's

1771
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 1: an elevation or that's north south or east west. And

1772
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 1: so if we fragment the wildlife habitat that we have,

1773
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 1: now they got no chance, right and so and and

1774
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, whether you believe in climate change and the

1775
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:52,280
Speaker 1: impacts or not, we're setting up a place for them

1776
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:54,720
Speaker 1: to be for a long time, whether or not the

1777
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:57,479
Speaker 1: impacts are huge or not. Right now, give things room

1778
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:02,160
Speaker 1: to adjust exactly. I just there's a lot of people

1779
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:07,639
Speaker 1: in other areas are just looking at as you know, again,

1780
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:10,479
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into the to the housing

1781
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 1: the too details the house and wise, but whether we're

1782
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,320
Speaker 1: seeing a natural phenomenon that will naturally reverse. So if

1783
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:18,840
Speaker 1: we're seeing something that is a one way street, I'm

1784
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,559
Speaker 1: not gonna address my opinion on it right now. But

1785
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 1: there are people looking at just if all this stuff

1786
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 1: is gonna move uphill what's up hill? Are we ready

1787
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:33,680
Speaker 1: for that? Are we making it that animals and and

1788
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 1: that that that wildlife has like some room to change

1789
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,920
Speaker 1: and adapt um and and go to new places to feed,

1790
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:45,760
Speaker 1: to go to new places to bead, new places to win,

1791
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: or new places the summer. So I think again, like

1792
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,240
Speaker 1: Ryan was saying, you're on either way, you're on the

1793
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 1: right hot side of history. You're not gonna, uh exacerbate

1794
01:36:53,800 --> 01:37:01,200
Speaker 1: the problem by removing connective corridors between wild areas. Yeah,

1795
01:37:02,040 --> 01:37:12,240
Speaker 1: totally great, gal Yep, what are we gonna lose? I mean,

1796
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 1: what are we gonna lose by protecting these places? What

1797
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:18,479
Speaker 1: are we gonna lose if we don't protect them? You know,

1798
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:23,559
Speaker 1: it's it's a very simple thing can we do concluding

1799
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 1: thoughts now? Be honest, I think we should. Okay, you're honest.

1800
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:33,000
Speaker 1: I have one. Today. I had a great conversation with

1801
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 1: the gal I was from a third time in my

1802
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 1: life Floridian. She lives all over the country, but I

1803
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:43,960
Speaker 1: got lucky for the third time on the left and

1804
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 1: got upgraded. So I feel like, what's not just great

1805
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:49,519
Speaker 1: about the leg room up front? But I actually have

1806
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:51,479
Speaker 1: great conversations with the people I get to sit next

1807
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: to in the front of the plane. So I was

1808
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 1: I was stoked, and all I had work to do.

1809
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 1: I engaged. But anyways, she's out on the board for

1810
01:37:58,240 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 1: the Florida Wildlife Federation. Not a hunter, like just a

1811
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:08,000
Speaker 1: little bit of a fisherman, but she she basically introduces

1812
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 1: herself as a conservationist. I said, really, because really, usually

1813
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:16,400
Speaker 1: if you're not like hunter fisherman person, you don't identify

1814
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:18,640
Speaker 1: with that. Are you sure you don't want to call

1815
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 1: yourself an environmentalist? Like, isn't that who you are? She's like, no, no,

1816
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm a conservationist, you know, first and foremost. And so

1817
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 1: that spawned this great conversation. And I guess my closing

1818
01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:33,320
Speaker 1: thought is that I think we need to find adversaries

1819
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:44,680
Speaker 1: outside of hunters and fishermen, you know, allies. Yeah. Sorry,

1820
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:47,600
Speaker 1: I was struggling with that, but anyways, Yeah, she was

1821
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:49,479
Speaker 1: telling about how in Florida she seems to think that

1822
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: they have no problem whatsoever getting hunters and fishermen together

1823
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:56,640
Speaker 1: with the environmental types and and you know, meeting in

1824
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 1: the middle zone and moving forward. And I just feel like,

1825
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,519
Speaker 1: too often here we're like setting ourselves apart and not

1826
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, getting find those allies in other places. Because

1827
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:09,519
Speaker 1: I really feel like in the end, if we're talking

1828
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 1: about public lands and clean water and whatever, we all

1829
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 1: have the same goal. And so yeah, well, if you're

1830
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:16,000
Speaker 1: a guy in Florida and you have to open up

1831
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 1: your newspaper to see pictures of literally tens of thousands

1832
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 1: of dead fish from sugar production runoff, I think you

1833
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:28,479
Speaker 1: get some fishermen fired up. Yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes

1834
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:32,719
Speaker 1: an image like that. Um, other things play out in slower,

1835
01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 1: less dramatic ways, and they don't get as much attention.

1836
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:44,599
Speaker 1: Concluding thought, please, Yeah, it's like dealing poker. Now it's

1837
01:39:44,640 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 1: Cal's turn. I think I'm all set. You know. In

1838
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:54,680
Speaker 1: room fall out, folks, it's an easy crowd right, like

1839
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 1: everybody is here for the right thing. Like we're fighting

1840
01:39:58,120 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 1: the good fight and keep it up. And uh as

1841
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 1: our new chairman here, Ryan Bussy said, you know change,

1842
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:10,759
Speaker 1: she'd just said, how change is possible? Don't go occupying

1843
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:15,160
Speaker 1: any buildings. How's your remodel coming? Oh it's rough, man,

1844
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:18,639
Speaker 1: is there just not doing it? Cal's remodel in the place,

1845
01:40:19,400 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 1: all buys lonesome. You don't need to sell me on.

1846
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: It's going good. I'll find a gal here. Don't worry

1847
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:30,800
Speaker 1: about it. No, but no, but no, is it coming?

1848
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 1: That was going? No, I'm not going. I'm not going

1849
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 1: in that direction, honestly. Is it coming along? Yeah? Is

1850
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 1: it like done? Yeah, next time you guys come down,

1851
01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 1: I'll be short. You gotta kitchen in there. He's cooking out.

1852
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 1: He's cooking at a camp stove for a long time.

1853
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:53,280
Speaker 1: Congratulates only six months land. Uh, great to have you here, Steve.

1854
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:55,040
Speaker 1: I was really glad that you and your team were

1855
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 1: able to come. You know, we've we've you were here

1856
01:40:58,040 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: five years ago at our first roundnboo and you got

1857
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:05,720
Speaker 1: to witness Ah, the growth and the energy of this

1858
01:41:05,800 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: organization is experiencing and and I think, Um, you know,

1859
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:13,120
Speaker 1: and for the listeners that weren't here, Um, you know,

1860
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:16,479
Speaker 1: b h A is on the rise. We have members

1861
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:19,360
Speaker 1: in all fifty states. We have chapters now in twenty

1862
01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:23,760
Speaker 1: four states. The stuff that we are trying to put

1863
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 1: in this bottle, this lightning that we're trying to put

1864
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 1: in the bottle, you can't experience it unless you go

1865
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:29,640
Speaker 1: and meet with other people. And I think what I

1866
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 1: heard over and over this weekends as people found their

1867
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:35,759
Speaker 1: tribe and so that energy that we had this weekend,

1868
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that goes all across this country.

1869
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 1: And so the stuff that we've been talking about today, Um,

1870
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:44,559
Speaker 1: we have that for future generations and and and and

1871
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 1: so for the listeners, check us out. And when there's

1872
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:50,559
Speaker 1: local events, come talk to those people and see who

1873
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:52,439
Speaker 1: we are and make up your mind for yourself if

1874
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:56,640
Speaker 1: you want to come engage. Ryan, Yeah, I echo that.

1875
01:41:57,000 --> 01:42:00,080
Speaker 1: Um you know, we've we've just come from end as

1876
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 1: Lee far. Everybody wants to be a part of a winner,

1877
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:04,759
Speaker 1: and I feel like b h A is really winning.

1878
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:07,160
Speaker 1: And I really appreciate you, Steve. Not only have you

1879
01:42:07,200 --> 01:42:10,400
Speaker 1: witnessed it, you've really influenced it. You're a role model

1880
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,680
Speaker 1: to a lot of people in this orc um, you know.

1881
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:16,840
Speaker 1: And I met here over the weekend a guy came

1882
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: from Washington. Um, and this is just an example the

1883
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: sort of people that we pull in and how this

1884
01:42:22,479 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 1: energy is building on itself. You know, we got a

1885
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:28,640
Speaker 1: guy like Steve Ronnella, who's the ultimate badass, doesn't have

1886
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:31,439
Speaker 1: a problem killing stuff, grilling it up, eating it. We've

1887
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:35,720
Speaker 1: got this guy from Washington who I ran into heard

1888
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:38,360
Speaker 1: about b h A. It got him fired up. He's

1889
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 1: never punched a tag in his life. He drove from

1890
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 1: western central Washington to come here to meet other people

1891
01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:46,800
Speaker 1: from He didn't know a soul to meet other people

1892
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 1: from Washington to meet people in b h A. He

1893
01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 1: wants to know how to do this. He wants to

1894
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:53,000
Speaker 1: know how to punch his tag. He wants to know

1895
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 1: how to preserve wildland. So we've got this spectrum of

1896
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:59,880
Speaker 1: people who want to be involved, from from the old

1897
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, the ultimate badasses like Steve

1898
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:04,760
Speaker 1: to the guy who's starting and it's gonna be the

1899
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:07,599
Speaker 1: ultimate badass. And you know, we want people on board

1900
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:10,680
Speaker 1: and um, we're thrilled to be doing this. Yeah, that's

1901
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:12,519
Speaker 1: what I want to do. For my concluding thought, is

1902
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 1: it something I've talked about a bunch before, is we

1903
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 1: get probably the number one email. If you're gonna categorize

1904
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:21,519
Speaker 1: the emails we get in, I think the top category

1905
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:24,800
Speaker 1: would be people saying, UM, I want to get involved

1906
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 1: in the out of doors. I didn't grow up around this, Um,

1907
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:34,639
Speaker 1: how do I do it? You can? You know, even

1908
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 1: if that's your motivation, you can find great inspiration and

1909
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:42,280
Speaker 1: great business information by joining an organization like this and

1910
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:45,599
Speaker 1: finding like minded folks. Um. Yeah, the way you can

1911
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 1: do a good thing, move the needle in the right direction,

1912
01:43:49,080 --> 01:43:51,120
Speaker 1: and also learn a lot of skills. I mean that's

1913
01:43:51,160 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 1: not something we've gotten into, but a big part of

1914
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:56,360
Speaker 1: what's going on at a weekend like this is people

1915
01:43:56,400 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 1: are talking shop. You know, I hould some good information

1916
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 1: about an area I've always been interested in. Last night,

1917
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 1: eating my dinner, stay out of the badgeck too. Man.

1918
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:10,720
Speaker 1: You No, it wasn't there as a different spot, but

1919
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 1: I'm real curious about going in there. So it's like, yeah,

1920
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 1: it's not all you know, it's not. You don't need

1921
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:17,400
Speaker 1: to come down and just have a big weekend. A

1922
01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:18,960
Speaker 1: good e two shoe and I mean you can come

1923
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:22,719
Speaker 1: down and uh enjoin the group and find some people

1924
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 1: who like to be out there as much as you

1925
01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: like to be out there and m yeah, man, develop

1926
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:29,799
Speaker 1: a tribe, you know, and have it be the tribe

1927
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:34,280
Speaker 1: that's on the winning side and doing good work. That's it.

1928
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:39,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining h