1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and ninety four, 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: airing in sort of mid late March of twenty eight, 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: twenty three. We are going to be talking about childcare 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: and home support, needs, wants, kids get older, and the 14 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: truth is, in many families, once kids start school, the 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: first thought is like, oh, few, now we can spend 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: less on childcare. And in many families there is a 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: very good reason to figure out that, because you know, 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: money is tight and not having to make those payments 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: is a real blessing in terms of having a little 20 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: bit more wiggle room and you know, to start pursuing 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: other priorities. However, we know that many of our listeners 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: have some pretty serious professional ambitions and may also be 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: in homes where things are not so tight that there 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: are a few more resources, a few more choices. And 25 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: if you are in that situation of a two income 26 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: household with two partners having two big jobs, and your 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: kids are starting school, there might be a different question 28 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: you can ask, which is not so much how can 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: I spend less on childcare, but the question of what 30 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: would make you feel like you can fully concentrate at 31 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: work and enjoy your time time at home. So that's 32 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking about in this episode, 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: and we thought of a little historical you know, thinking 34 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: back to prior generations. This was probably something that men 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: in certain cultures of previous generations got to take for 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: granted that they got to go to work, probably not 37 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 1: worrying about getting anybody to school. They'd be at work 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: all day and they would come home and then you 39 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: get like a martini handed to you, and the kids 40 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: are all like fresh from the bath, and there's a 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: nice meal on the table, and they're really not worrying 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: about much else other than their dog. Now, I am 43 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: not suggesting that this is the ideal or even something 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: I would want in my life. You don't want the martini. 45 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: I don't want the martini. Although the bath part, the 46 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: bath part, haven't that be done? But it's you know, 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to think about, like there's a 48 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: whole generation of serious workers who felt like this was 49 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: their right. And now that we've moved into more modern 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: times and many many more to income households and women 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: doing all sorts of exciting things from a professional standpoint, 52 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: people are not counting on that lifestyle well. And it's 53 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: interesting because I think when women are aiming for that 54 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: right that they could fully concentrate at work and enjoy 55 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: their time at home. And if they don't have partners 56 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: who are taking on all that responsibility, then people throw around, 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: you know, all the discussions of privilege and stuff like that, 58 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, to have something that men took for granted, 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: that was done because their wives were doing it. And 60 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: so you know the question is, how could people have 61 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the sort of home support that made those men able 62 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: to advance in their careers and concentrate and enjoy their 63 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: home life. How can you have that as well even 64 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: as you age out of the daycare or full time 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: nanny years, you know, which we'll talk about for sure. 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 1: And the thing is, this is, as we've talked about 67 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: careers with our various life listeners and people over the years, 68 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: we've seen that this is actually a real stumbling block, 69 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: and it's an unknown one. People don't talk about it 70 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: or necessarily plan with it. But you know, when your 71 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: kids have been up to about age five or so, 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: before they start kindergarten or first grade, whatever it is 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: in your district, you've had to have something. Clearly, if 74 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: you have two parents with full time jobs, you need 75 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: some childcare arrangement, and for many people, daycare, even though 76 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: it has various trade offs, the hours reflect full time work. 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: Right the center is open from eight to six, so 78 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: that you can work from you know, eight thirty to 79 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: five thirty or nine to five or whatever it is 80 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: and pick up your kids, and so the hours correspond 81 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: with that, and they are open over the summer, for instance, 82 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: since presumably you're still working over the summer, or perhaps 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: you have employed a full time nanny whose hours also 84 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: would match something that was like your work schedule. But 85 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: then once the kids transition into school, people are like, oh, well, yeah, 86 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: the kids are out of the house from you know, 87 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: eight thirty to four thirty every day or something. You know, 88 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: we'll make get work, but it does not always work 89 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: because you're counting down to not having to pay for daycare. 90 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: But school is generally one hundred and eighty days a year. 91 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: Your work year is probably closer to two hundred and 92 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: forty days, right, So that right there is a lot 93 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: of time you have to plan for. You know, in 94 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: our area, elementary school is approximately six and a half 95 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: hours per day, which even if you you know, have 96 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: them on the bus at some point before that, we're 97 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: talking seven hours of coverage that does not correspond with 98 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: a full work day. So then you're either figuring out, 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, how to get the extra hours or something. 100 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: If kids have activities at school, that's great, but they 101 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: might not if they want to do things that are away, 102 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: maybe somebody needs to drive them. In addition to being 103 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: supervising from kids get sick. We're definitely dealing with a 104 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: rough winter that we're just coming out of. With this 105 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: as people's immune systems are responding to whatever has been 106 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: going around, so you need to have coverage for that 107 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: as well. And you know, in many cases if people 108 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: have had say a full time lanny during the little 109 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: kid years, that person might have been helping with some 110 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: household chores like being there when the groceries are delivered, 111 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: or maybe running a load of laundry, And if that 112 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: is not there, you are, you know, going to have 113 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: to start adding in those things as you are also 114 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: feeling like you have less time at work. If you're 115 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: trying to match your work hours to your kids' school hours, 116 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: it is a stumbling block that people don't see coming. 117 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: And so that's why I'm saying, maybe shift the question 118 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: from how can I spend less on childcare to what 119 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: support would I need to make my career work? What 120 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: do I need to make my career work? And what 121 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: do I want to make my home life run smoothly 122 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: as well? Like you know, those are all things that 123 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: will interfere with you getting your work done, like you 124 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: mentioned the sick days or school days off, et cetera. 125 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: And then there might also just be things you want 126 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: to do, like spending more time one on one with 127 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: a child, for example, like maybe after school one really 128 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: needs intensive help with homework and you're able to do that. 129 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: That's a whole other conversation and a whole other episode 130 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: because it can be a little bit challenging at times. 131 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: But let's say you need to spend that one on 132 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: one time, but you have younger kids that you need 133 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: help with at the same time, So that's difficult to 134 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: do if you've gotten rid of all of your childcare. 135 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: And then things like travel, So either if both parents 136 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: are traveling for work or if you are a two 137 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: parent couple that wants occasional kid free travel, then the 138 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: ability to do that might depend on having somebody willing 139 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: to to do that, and usually it's going to be 140 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: someone that has a kind of significant relationship with your family, 141 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: Like it's probably less likely that you're going to be 142 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: able to find a random babysitter willing to cover a 143 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: couple of overnights, because that's just a lot to take 144 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: on if you don't know a family and their routines, 145 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, you'd have to have somebody who is 146 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: who is definitely they are and familiar with you and 147 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: would have it. So what do you do? Well, the 148 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: first thing is to say, you know, if we're not 149 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: automatically trying to drastically cut costs of support, what are 150 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: the options? So Sarah one that you've sort of come 151 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: up with. Maybe you can talk about what you guys have. Yeah, 152 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: let's take a very quick break first, and then I 153 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: will go all right, we'll take the We aren't here 154 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: live together. By the way, I didn't mention this for 155 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: the intro of this one, but we are here in 156 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: Fort Lauderdale sitting on a sofa together. So we're like, oh, yeah, 157 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: at break law, Yeah we'll lose. We're just having a conversation. 158 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: We're just having a conversation. But yeah, we'll be back 159 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: in a few minutes. All right, we are back. And 160 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't say our solution is unique to our family. 161 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: I've seen it kind of play out very similarly often 162 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 1: where there are two working parents. And you know, interestingly, 163 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: we'll get to this a little bit later, but there 164 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: can be certain cultural norms in certain areas that seem 165 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: very foreign in other areas. But where I am, this 166 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: is not an uncommon scenario. So I would say this 167 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: unfolded organically rather than some kind of grand master plan, 168 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: even though you guys know I love my grandmaster plans. 169 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: We hired our nanny in twenty thirteen, and Annabel was 170 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: sixteen months old. At the time, Cameron was not yet born, 171 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: but I knew that, you know, he was coming. And 172 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: I had a job involved a significant commute at the time, 173 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: and I needed someone who could get there early, be 174 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: there to take Anabel to like little preschool classes, and 175 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: then be there for Cameron when he was born. So 176 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: we hired her nanny, and in my mind it was 177 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: a childcare job like However, turns out that she is 178 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: a very efficient person and was happy to kind of 179 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: fill in other gaps for our family. And I get 180 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: that that is not what every employee is motivated to do, 181 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: but in our case that did happen. Who knows if 182 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: she had a master plan of, you know, being a 183 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: long term kind of employee for us, knowing that were 184 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: we to were our kids to get older, as kids do, 185 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: that her staying on might depend on her doing other 186 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: things as well. So I have no idea if she 187 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: thought through this. I actually don't think so. I think 188 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: it was more just like, eh, I like to stay busy. 189 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: The kids are asleep, I got the schedule down, I 190 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: want to get stuff done while I'm here. So she 191 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: took on some laundry stuff and some cooking stuff, and 192 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: I have always been very much pro sending my little 193 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: kids to school, even when we had a nanny, because 194 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: I just felt like it was good for them to 195 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: be around other kids, to experience like this, just the 196 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: routine of school. And so that probably also opened up 197 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: her schedule to be doing a little bit more than 198 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: if she had been like home with two little kids 199 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: all day long. So when I say school, I mean preschool, 200 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: and I recognize it not school school, but we felt 201 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: it was valuable. So then as the kids got older, 202 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: we started to need her lesson less, Plus we moved 203 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: less and less for childcare. Specifically, our move changed our routine. 204 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: COVID obviously changed our routines at the time, and at 205 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: this point we're actually in a place where we drive 206 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: the kids. Well, I usually drive the kids to school, 207 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: in part because their school is literally on the way 208 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: to my office, so it does not actually add that 209 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: much time. I mean probably it's an extra fifteen to 210 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: twenty minutes for me each morning, but the timing works 211 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: out very nicely, so you know, the drop off coincides 212 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: nicely with when I have to start clinic. So I 213 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: just didn't see any reason to have her show up 214 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: at our house when it was easy for me to 215 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: drop them off, and then Josh usually does one day 216 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: because he has a clinic nearby. Anyway, so I recognize, 217 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: oh wow, so now her start time is very loose, like, 218 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, if she doesn't need to come at seven 219 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: or eight, then she might as well, you know, not 220 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: come until three some days. And so we have just 221 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: morphed into like a And yet I knew as a 222 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: person and as an employee, she needs full time income. 223 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: And I also knew that I wanted someone to a 224 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: continue with the household help that we have been appreciating, 225 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: and b to be there on call because kids get sick, 226 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: kids forget lunches. There are a million random days off 227 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: from school, My kids have activities that overlap on my 228 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: clinic days or my call weeks. I'm busy and I 229 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: need extra support. Like there are just like too many 230 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: moving parts. My husband's job is very inflexible for the 231 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: most part, and I accept that and that's okay. That's 232 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: just kind of part of the way his is structured. 233 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: And so we're now at this point where we do 234 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: pay full time hours, you know, a standard kind of 235 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: minimum amount every single week that were we to be 236 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: paying hourly, it would be a very high hourly rate 237 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: with the number of hours she's often working. But again, 238 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: she is on call, so if on a random Tuesday morning, 239 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: Genevieve is coughing and can't go to school, she will 240 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: come in and work earlier that day. And she has 241 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: also continued to help us with various household tasks that 242 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: she had kind of been doing already, and because she's 243 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: very efficient, she doesn't necessarily need to put in tons 244 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: more hours to do that, So she enjoys kind of 245 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: a pretty flexible schedule at this point. And I just 246 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: feel like everybody is winning. She has a job that 247 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: I think she considers a good position at least the 248 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: fact that she's been with us for ten years would 249 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: probably speak to that. And we are getting what we 250 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: need as a family in terms of the support we need, 251 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: the help with household stuff, me not having distress over 252 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, specifically if a kid gets sick or like 253 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: all those kind of like little things that otherwise would 254 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: add to a lot of mental stress and clutter and 255 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: I know would fall on me. And yeah, that's kind 256 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: of how things have evolved with time. Now people who 257 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: want specifics in terms of like, well, what are you 258 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: talking about? Household support? She does laundry in our house, 259 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: pretty much all of it. She does cook, do the 260 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: meal planning, and I have been doing a lot of 261 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: the shopping in terms of like partly because I enjoy it, 262 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: But she does a lot of the cooking. I usually 263 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: make the plan and then the meals are basically done 264 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: when I get home, and we use a lot of 265 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: practition prior podcast sponsors, so I don't even often do 266 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: the planning. I just do the shopping. And then let's 267 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: see what else does she do. She doesn't do heavy cleaning. 268 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: She definitely does like straightening up, but we do have 269 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: a separate cleaning service that helps with like cleaning bathrooms 270 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So yeah, and then she does driving, 271 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: lots of driving to activities as the kids have had 272 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: more and more activities, often that are not at the 273 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: school but in other locations, so there's just shuttling around 274 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: that has to be done. And sometimes that's on a 275 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: Wednesday and I'm still in clinic until five, and I 276 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: won't be home until five forty ath the earliest, so 277 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: I just can't do it. So for us, it works, 278 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: it works for her, it works for us. Is it 279 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: the least expensive way we could do life with kids? 280 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely not, But it is it one of the least 281 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: stressful ways to do a lot of it? I think so. 282 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: So I feel like it's a worthy use of resources. 283 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely so. We're still in the state. I mean, Henry 284 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: is only in preschool for three mornings a week from 285 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: nine to noon, and they have teacher and service days, 286 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: they have holidays. It only runs from mid September to 287 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: the end of May. So the question has been posed 288 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: to me of like, well, do you need childcare now 289 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: that he's in school, And I'm like, well, I cannot 290 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: run my business, and what would be seven and a 291 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: half hours a week, you know when by the time 292 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: you do drop off and pick up. I mean, that's 293 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: sort of ridiculous. It wasn't my husband who asked this, 294 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: by day, but yeah, I mean so it hasn't even 295 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: crossed my mind yet. And the mental load that would 296 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: then wind up, probably primarily on me, to try to 297 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: not have to pay anyone for those seven and a 298 00:15:53,920 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: half hours is just so high that it asn't compute 299 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: at all. So that's why you know, asking the questions 300 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: like maybe stop trying to ask if you are in 301 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: a family that is lucky enough to have two high 302 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: income earning parents, you know, which is why you have 303 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: these You have these big jobs that you're trying to 304 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: do your best at not trying to ask that question, 305 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: how can I make sure that I'm not compensating for 306 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: any time whatsoever that my kid is not here? And 307 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: so we use that time for you know, things like 308 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: grocery shopping, laundry, various errands. I swear every week we 309 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: have something that has to be picked up at targets 310 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: that some could urgently needs and we somehow didn't get 311 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: it ahead of time with like the two day Amazon delivery, 312 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: and so there's always something that has to happen in 313 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: that time. So yeah, we're still in the little kid 314 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: years from that perspective. But that brings us to the 315 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: question is there an end point? Because I mean, at 316 00:16:53,440 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: some point one might eventually transition out of needing a 317 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: full time employee. I suspect if I only had, like 318 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: to say, my two oldest kids, who are fifteen and thirteen, 319 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: I would probably not have a full cut time childcare, 320 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: and partly because they wouldn't go for it at all, 321 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: I think they would be offended by the concept, but 322 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: they do need rides, right like, they still need rides places, 323 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: they need to be picked up from their activities after 324 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: school sometimes, although sometimes they take the activity bus, So 325 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: I think we would be relying a lot more on 326 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: the activity bus at that I think I might have 327 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: more of a housekeeper type arrangement, somebody who's doing more 328 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: of that, which that's the question of would that person, 329 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: what sort of hours would that person want, And definitely 330 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: having the ability of somebody who could stay overnight because 331 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen and thirteen year old, especially since I 332 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: can't drive, could not really stay overnight by themselves, and 333 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: so you'd need somebody who could do that, because that's 334 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: something that does still arise in our family of you know, 335 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: my husband and I bold of having the occasional work 336 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: travel and it if it overlaps, it overlaps, and even 337 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: if it didn't, somebody might have a plane's like canceled, 338 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: and then you have to figure that out. So there's 339 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: probably a point where you don't need full time. However, 340 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: there may still be some level of support that you 341 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: will still need. Yeah, probably depends on what your goals 342 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: are in terms of whether you want to continue to 343 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: outsource different types of housework depends on a lot of 344 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: logistical stuff, like if your kids are all in one 345 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: school and like there's a bus like that might make 346 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: things a million times easier. And if your kids have 347 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: special needs that mean that one of them has to 348 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: be across town and like the drop offs are going 349 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: to remain complicated for years, then that might be a 350 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: situation where there's no end point until the kids are 351 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: quite old or even finished with school. Who knows, so 352 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: so many variations, but I just I think our thesis 353 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: is that for the most part, most people, if they 354 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: are able to do it, might benefit from some continued 355 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: support as the kids grow, at least until the point 356 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: where they are definitely able to stay by themselves right 357 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: and reach the point where there is some transportation that 358 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: means that you don't have to end your work day 359 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: way earlier, then you might choose to on every day 360 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: basically more or less. So yeah, thinking about that now. Obviously, 361 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: having a full time employee is not the only way 362 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: that you can achieve this level of support. There are 363 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: a number of families that we've talked to with in 364 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: our best of both worlds community have parents and that 365 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: that is a solution for families with older kids, an 366 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: O pair being usually somebody from another country, generally between 367 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: the ages of eighteen and twenty five. It's a particular 368 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: visa that that's one of the requirements on it. I 369 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: think for the most part, that they come stay for 370 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: a year or two live with your family. There's a 371 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: cultural component. You're supposed to be showing them around your 372 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: you know, this is the United States. We have listeners 373 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: fromever or but this is what the OPARE program is 374 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: in the US, that you're supposed to be showing them 375 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: life in the US, being part of the household. The 376 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: tradeoff they get a stipend, but it's not as much 377 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: as one might pay for a full time normal employee 378 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: in the most part, so that can be good, and 379 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: especially if it you know, the if you have tween children, 380 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: for instance, who like the thought of having a cool 381 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: older sibling right who's who's helping to drive them around, 382 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel as much like a babysitter as just 383 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: you know, an older sibling who's living with you. That 384 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: can be really good. And then there's the babysitter portfolio, 385 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: which is something we've you know, brought up before, like 386 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: if you really don't have needs that are that consistent 387 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: and you're willing to manage the task of maintaining this staff, 388 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: which could be a little mini job in and of itself. 389 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: But this might work for you, especially if you're in 390 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: an area where they're plentiful, like where maybe there's lots 391 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: and lots of colleges around and you always have like 392 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: a little text chain with five that know your family 393 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: that you can on a moment's notice, Okay, my kid 394 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: is sick and someone come, I will say. Managing these portfolios, 395 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: the more you pay, the more people are gonna want 396 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: to stay on this text chain. I pay my babysitters 397 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: a lot because I want them to be excited to 398 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: get a text for me and feel like they are 399 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: winning when they come to our house. We don't get 400 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: babysitters that often, so I feel like, for me, it's 401 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: not that expensive, but having them at my figure tips 402 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: is very helpful. So the group of babysitters might be 403 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: a cost effecttion av option if you really just need 404 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: a spot, like a spot fill in type of a thing, 405 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: and then you know local family support. People are so 406 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: lucky when they have that, and I feel like there 407 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: is an interesting like cultural piece of this in which 408 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: some families or in some traditions, there's like just kind 409 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: of either unexpected or just a very common choice for 410 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: parents to go back and live with people and how 411 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: about with kids. And that's awesome if that works for 412 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: your family, But obviously that is just going to your mileage, Mayberry, 413 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: and we can never expect that necessarily of our elders. 414 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: They might have other stuff going on. Yeah, or even 415 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: you know, people might be willing to take an overnight 416 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: every you know, month or two. That's something that extended 417 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: family might help out with, but they don't want to 418 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: be the person doing Monday and Tuesday pick up every week. 419 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: That they have other things that they might wish to 420 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: be doing with their time, right that they don't want 421 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: to commit to something like that, which in that case 422 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: it does usually need to be a paid person who's 423 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: going to make that commitment to do although you know 424 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: which again we want to want to point out with 425 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: managing the babysitter portfolio at Sarah pays Well, which is 426 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: how she gets people and who are committed and all that, 427 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: but when somebody is not working for you full time, 428 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: their level of commitment and reliability may just naturally be 429 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: lower then it would be if it is their full 430 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 1: time job, because they have other things that they are 431 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: probably doing most of the time with their time, right 432 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: if they're a full time student, or they have another 433 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: full time job or whatever it is, and that's always 434 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: going to be their primary priority. So you just have 435 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: to keep in mind that you might be scrambling, and 436 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: if the scrambling is something that is going to keep 437 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: you from focusing on what you would like to be 438 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: doing in terms of building your career and enjoying your 439 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: home life, then it might be worth some additional resources 440 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: in order to not have to do that. Yeah, And 441 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: I guess the one last thing I wanted to say 442 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: on this is that I I think there's such an 443 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: interesting slate of feelings that come along with people thinking 444 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: about having somebody work for you in your household, and 445 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: in certain circles, as I mentioned, in my area, it's 446 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: very very common, and in others, I feel like there 447 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: is an air of looking down upon people if they 448 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: choose not to stay home with their kids or choose 449 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 1: not to do some gymnastics in order to work and 450 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: care for your kids all day long. I guess I 451 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: would just say, like, this is to me a morally 452 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: neutral choice, Like, as long as you are a responsible 453 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: employer and you treat your employees well and you pay 454 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: taxes and do things what you're supposed to do, then 455 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: you know you're providing somebody else with a career, and 456 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: hopefully a decent one. Again, that has to do with 457 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: how you you are as an employer, and at least 458 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about the literature doesn't suggest that 459 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: kids tend to suffer so much when there is help 460 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: of this kind. And so if you choose to be 461 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: home with the kids and you enjoy that, absolutely wonderful, 462 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: that's morally neutral too. But if you choose to use 463 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: your resources to make things smoother and you want the 464 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: extra help, then that is that is also great. Yeah, 465 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: that it's you know, and it's so funny. We hear 466 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: people's stories all the time at it and I've you know, 467 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: from writing about time and often women's life choices all 468 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: these years. I am always curious as people who write 469 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: me these notes about the various gymnastics that they have 470 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: undertaken to minimize their use of paid childcare. And I 471 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: think many of these people are writing me these notes 472 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: because they want me to congratulate them on how good 473 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: they are at time management by figuring out some way 474 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,239 Speaker 1: that they've managed to do a forty hour job in 475 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: with fifteen hours of paid childcare or something like that. 476 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: And I'm I mean, you know, if it works for them, great, 477 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm always happy if people are happy with 478 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: their lives. But I don't buy the underlying assumption, which 479 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: is that the use of paid childcare is bad and 480 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,239 Speaker 1: a sign that you are failing as a parent, and 481 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: therefore by minimizing it, you are winning as a parent. 482 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: Like no, you may just be making your schedule miserable, 483 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: Like if you're having to wake up at four in 484 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: the morning to get you know, three hours of work 485 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: done before you're dealing with your kids, and then you 486 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: absolutely have to use the two hours of nap for 487 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: work to get yourself to five, and then you have 488 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: to you know, work all night and all weekend to 489 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: get yourself up to forty Like no, that, I mean, 490 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a lot of stress that maybe 491 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: didn't need to be there if we questioned that assumption. 492 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, I would. Our thesis of this piece is 493 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: that maybe spending less on childcare is not a good 494 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: in and of itself. There may be other things that 495 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: you wish to optimize for in your family, and it 496 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be forever, but maybe considering paying for 497 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: it a year or two longer than you might have 498 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: might go a long way toward helping you build your career, 499 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: helping preserve family harmony, and making life feel more fun. Yes, 500 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: I love it all right. Our Q and A is 501 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: sort of related because it maybe think about the childcare 502 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: situation and overnight travel. But our listener writes, I know 503 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: you've done a travel podcast episode, but have you ever 504 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: done anything on what you need to do at home 505 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: to prepare for traveling by yourself and or traveling with 506 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: a partner and no kids. Are there things you put 507 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: into place at home on a regular basis so that 508 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: you can travel? And are there tips for people who 509 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: want to start doing more adults only travel? So I 510 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: think one thing you need to do is make sure 511 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: that your home routines can be done by one adult, 512 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: so you know, maybe not putting three children in three 513 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: different activities that require driving that are in three different 514 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: places simultaneously. You know, some things can't be avoided, but 515 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: if you can avoid that, you're probably in a better place, 516 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: you know. I certainly in our family, they the activity bus, 517 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: which I mentioned here and there, but our middle schools 518 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: and high schools have late run buses that you leave 519 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: at four thirty or five thirty approximately and come pretty 520 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: much to the same place the regular bus stop is. 521 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: It's more like a taxi service. You tell the driver 522 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: where you need to go, and he or she drops 523 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: you off there. And that is so helpful because it 524 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: means you don't have to go get the kid, which 525 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: means that two of them can come home simultaneously from 526 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: different schools and one adult could still handle it. The 527 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: morning routine is a little bit more complicated, but we 528 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: do have a set system that can work if there 529 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: is one adult home, and it does involve a little 530 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: bit of extra driving because we have to have some 531 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: of the older children stay later with the littler ones 532 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: in order for another ride to be taken place, and 533 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: then those people that need to be driven to school, 534 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: they can't take the bus because they have to stay. 535 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: But it does work. My older children are able to 536 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: babysit the younger ones, and so that is a possibility. 537 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: I understand that wouldn't work for many people who have 538 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,479 Speaker 1: younger kids at that point, but as much as possible 539 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: setting up a routine so that one adult can do it, 540 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: I think a big piece of this other than the 541 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: logistical part, And I guess I will mention like, yeah, 542 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: I've definitely thought about the benefit that ur nanny will 543 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: do overnights as being a reason that I will probably 544 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, continue to employ her for maybe longer than 545 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: I need in other aspects, because I do love being 546 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: able to do travel just with my husband. So setting 547 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: things up, whether it's family member, whether it's an employed person, 548 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: but just like having someone who you know can handle 549 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: your kids, also giving yourself the permission to doing it, 550 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: and just planning it. I think sometimes we end up 551 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: with the block. And I struggle with this sometimes, like 552 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: I worry that it will my kids will be mad, 553 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: or my husband might be mad. But then I kind 554 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: of try to zoom out and think about the number 555 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: of days in a year, and I wrote like, even 556 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: if I traveled for twenty days, that is, you know, 557 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: three hundred and forty five days out of three hundred 558 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: and sixty five days, and I'm not traveling And by 559 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: the way, twenty days is like an enormous overestimate of 560 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: like what I typically doing these days, especially because a 561 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: lot of times when I travel it's like forty eight hours. 562 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think, just you know, we're giving 563 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: your permission right now if this is something you want 564 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: to do. It certainly has worked in our cases, and 565 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: it's worked in other homes as well, and everyone will 566 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: kind of get used to it. And truthfully, having one trip, 567 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: even in a year that's short, to look forward to, 568 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: can be more therapeutic than it sounds. Yeah, I say 569 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: the adding it up how many nights it is because 570 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: I think especially people who have jobs that do involve 571 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: travel often get really worked up about this that they're 572 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: traveling all the time. But the reason it feels like 573 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: it's all the time is that travel is memorable and 574 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: it stands out in the mind as being bigger than 575 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: it is. And sometimes, you know, if you stay in 576 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: the same hotel chain, for instance, they'll tell you how 577 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: many nights you stayed there in the past year, and 578 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: it's often like ridiculously low, Like people who feel like 579 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: they're traveling constantly will find out that they spent thirty 580 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: six nights in that hotel over the court that hotel 581 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: chain over the course of the year, and that's the 582 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: one where they do all their all their say, and 583 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: that's ten percent of the year, right like, and in 584 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: their mind it was all of it, and in fact 585 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the time you were not there. So 586 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: it's important to keep that in perspective, sort of flexible 587 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: attitude about kids missing things, Like we certainly if one 588 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: of us is traveling, not everything has to happen. We 589 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: have ordering food or you know, somebody can miss ninja 590 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: class and it's it's okay. As for you personally, like 591 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: the list of it just sticks of getting adult out 592 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: the door. I think the less precious you can be 593 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: about the fact that you are traveling. And this may 594 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: be getting into our previous episode on transitions, there are 595 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: ways that it can be easier for you if you 596 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: are used to it, and some of this, you know, 597 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: if you wind up traveling a lot, whether for work 598 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: or personal things, you're going to develop some of it. 599 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: Like you know, you don't actually have to be at 600 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,959 Speaker 1: the airport two hours ahead of time. You know you 601 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: can have a packed toiletry bag and a very sort 602 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: of quick, quick and dirty how you pack kind of thing. Yeah, 603 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: I mean make it easy, don't be super perfectionist, like 604 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: have your rituals, and even you talked about like have 605 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: your parking rituals, like know where you're going to park, 606 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: or like that you always, you know, order an uber 607 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: at a certain time beforehand. So like the more it becomes, 608 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: I guess routine, then the more it just seems like 609 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: less of a big deal. Yes, it's appropriate that we 610 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: now have an airplane going outside the window here as 611 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: we're having this this live recording session here in Fort Lauderdale. 612 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: But someone's traveling, someone's traveling, I don't know. Yeah, I 613 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: always park in a certain garage at the airport because 614 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: it almost always has space. Although I also look like 615 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: I've bookmarked the Philadelphia Airport parking map and it tells 616 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: you what percent is full in any of the given garages, 617 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: and I choose one that also has a dedicated TSA 618 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: pre check lane. And so unless I am flying internationally, 619 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: which is Terminal A, and if you know you're coming 620 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: back international, you have to land there. That's where the 621 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: International Rivals Hall is. But if I'm doing domestic travel, 622 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: most of the time you land bc ORD. And so 623 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: if I park in one of those you know, then 624 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: you're closed. So yeah, Philadelphia Airport parking tips from us, 625 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: But you could do this for any you know, whatever, 626 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: your park at your airport that you fly out of. 627 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: If you are doing this frequently, making sure that it 628 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: is a routine for use, then you don't have to 629 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: think about it, and so getting on a plane becomes 630 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,719 Speaker 1: not this huge thing like ooh, you know I have 631 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: to think about it for days, I have to think. 632 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't have to think about being on 633 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: the plane until Sunday night when I was flying here 634 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: on Monday morning, and it was kind of a only 635 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: because I looked at the time of the ticket and 636 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: realized I wasn't actually gonna have any time to pack 637 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: in the morning, so I was like, oh, I guess 638 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: I better pack tonight. So I did. But you know, 639 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: it's something that you don't have to think about much 640 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: more than twenty four hours ahead of time. Awesome, all right, Well, 641 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: Love of the Week. Mine is not travel related this time, 642 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: and it is like so so basic. But I'm just 643 00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: going to tell you this story, which is that I 644 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: told myself a story for many years that Trader Joe's 645 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: was for specialty ingredients and not for every day shopping. 646 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: And I've decided that I was wrong, and it's a 647 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: wrong that cost me a lot of money because I 648 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: shopped at other stores that are much less cost effective 649 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: than Trader Joe's. And I've been using Trader Joe's for 650 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks, and I'm like, very very 651 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: impressed with what they have there because I was deluded. 652 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: I think I got distracted by all these like dedes 653 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: are the weird fines, but like they also have grapes 654 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: and salmon and yelsk and eggs and whatever pretty and 655 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: expensively too. Yeah, so maybe it And we have one 656 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: near my house. Helps. Yes, I used to love the 657 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: dark chocolate covered caramels, and then I realized I can't 658 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 1: have you know them anymore. Oh well, so that will 659 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: not be my love of the week. I actually we 660 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: have this new funny little you know, you don't want 661 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: to overbuy kitchen devices, but we got a little egg slicer, 662 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: and Henry loves that thing, Oh my goodness, So we 663 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: boil him eggs and peel and he put it on there. 664 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: He slices up his egg and then eats his little 665 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: egg slices and he's a happy, happy little camper. So 666 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: that's breakfast a great Many mornings, I try to boil 667 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: ahead of time, so I have lots of boiled eggs, 668 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: so because if you have to do it and he 669 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: has to wait for the water to boil, it's kind 670 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: of a a not a great morning experience for everyone. 671 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: But if they are already boiled, we're all good. I 672 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, sliced eggs, sliced eggs. Well, this has 673 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: been best of both worlds. And we've been talking about 674 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: what support should look like when your kids are a 675 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: little bit older and so you might not have automatically 676 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: had full time childcare, whether that's daycare or nanny. What 677 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: would still make you feel like you could advance in 678 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,399 Speaker 1: your career and feel adequately supported at home. We'd love 679 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: to hear from people about what your setup is because 680 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 1: I know lots of best of both worlds listeners have 681 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: dealt with this question and come up with interesting solutions. 682 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: So let us know and we will be back next 683 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: week with more on making work and life fit together. 684 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 685 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoebox on Instagram, 686 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 687 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 688 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 689 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: life work together.