WEBVTT - Ep. 035 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.360 This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:26.800 can't predict anything. I'm with Janice podcast horror will tell us. 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.199 Thank you. Um. Randall Williams, who has been on this, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.840 who's down on the show before, an environmental historian. Um, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.040 I'd like to accidentally call him Randall Weaver, who is 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.040 the Ruby Ridge standoff person. But it's in fact Randall 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.839 Williams does that many Randall's everybody switches to Randy endearing. Yeah, 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.320 I know one other Randall. He's actually a neighbor. I 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.479 got a friend named Randy with an eye on the end, 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.760 and I call her Randall. I wish you don't like, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:01.720 I can't imagine. And Matt Elliott here from who drove 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.920 up from World Bench made World Headquarters down. And like 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.399 in Portland property, Oregon City, Oregon City, there's an east 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.840 and the west side thing in in uh Portland. If 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.959 you live on the east side, you don't really consider 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.240 yourself in Portland unless you're actually East Portland. But in 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.800 eastern Oregon they call everything pretty much West of the 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.200 Mountains Portland. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So are you like in 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.840 the redneck part of Portland as a Yeah, that's the 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.800 redneck parts the industrial area. You guys still drink like 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.440 Sanka and Folgers and stuff. And it's not like there's 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:42.120 still fifty five Starbucks within a mouth from from bench made. Yeah. Um, hey, 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.240 how we're just talking about hunting spots and stealing people's 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:51.120 GPS is in Uh and yan, tell tell what happened? 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.280 Now you're what happened? Now you're on an airplane and 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.280 which you ran a new dude who used to live 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:01.800 where you live. And uh, I met him through I 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:03.920 want to amy names even get in trouble, but I 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.280 met him through another friend, a colleague of ours, and uh, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.400 we're skiing together, and uh it turns out that he 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.440 was a fishing guy and dabbled in the hunting guiding 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:15.200 a little bit and actually knew a friend of mine 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:19.960 from Colorado and now lives back east. And I saw 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.799 this kind of thing like, well, maybe I could get 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:23.799 probably a little bit of information out of him, you know, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.520 So I just slipped in like a yeah, I'm new here, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:28.639 and you know, what do you know about hunting right 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.760 here around the ski area? And I mean that just 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.120 opened up the floodgates. Man, I couldn't. I should just 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.799 have my iPhone out on record. But because he used 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.320 to hit all that stuff and moved away to Chicago. Yeah, 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.600 so we're no, we're just saying, how guys that don't 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.800 you know you just don't protect your hunting spots as 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.480 much as as you once did once you move away 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.120 from an area, Dude in the guide book. In the 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.400 guide book, I say, I've gotten a lot of hunting 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.000 spots by talking to people who used to live somewhere 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.440 that don't anymore because they don't care. And now I'm 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.520 in the situation where I used to live. You know, 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.639 I spent a lot of time a decade ago somewhere 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.000 and I'll tell people now, I'll be like, oh, you know, 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.440 I haven't been in a decade, but go check it out. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.240 And I I knew this dude who was working on 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.160 you know, on X on X maps. They're in Missoula. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.000 So I know a guy who moved to Missoula to 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:24.320 work there, And I'm like, hey, man, you know what 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.600 you ought to do is this is place we used 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.079 to find bears in the spring. I'm like around May eleven, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.640 like between the six and the eleven drive up to 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.680 this trailhead and you're gonna get out of your car 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.720 and you're gonna think's ridiculous because it's gonna be a 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.960 ask load of snow. Never mind the snow. Walk up 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:49.280 two miles and there's gonna be a southeast exposure that's 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.920 gonna have a bald spot on the size of a 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.960 couple of football fields, and watch that for the day. 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.400 Because it used to work out. He goes up there 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.040 one day, comes back, calls, he says, oh, it's too snowy. 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:06.880 I'm like, dude, just park, go back, walk up. It 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.920 doesn't matter what it looks like with the snow. Never mind, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.200 the snow goes up there, says there, black bear comes out, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.600 misses it, something like that. Spot still is good. So 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.640 old spots can be good, definitely. Animals don't know how 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.039 much time went by. I think there's I think they're 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.000 cyclical too, you know, spots. I think they get popular 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.160 with guys, they start to get hit hard. Animals maybe 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.240 move out a little bit, or you get a little nocturnal, 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.080 and then all of sudd everybody's like, there's a lot sucks, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.800 and then you roll in, you know, to you it's 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.960 like Nirvana because he's rolling. There's nobody there. Yeah, that 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.240 happens even in the side of the season. You know, 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.560 it's like people going hit up a spot. They might 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.599 have drawn a limited entry tag and people are hunting it. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:51.560 That happened us last year. There was just a ton 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.120 of pressure on this spot and everybody bailed because the 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.880 elk was shut down. Because the human pressure definitely affects, 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.839 you know, how vocal the elk are. My buddy felt 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.160 like there was no elk to be found. We'd drawn 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.839 the tag sort on his preference points. We said, all right, well, 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.560 you know, go home. I'll hunt the coast instead, and 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.840 we we bailed out of there. And then a friend 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.400 of mine told me later who knew some guys from 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.720 Roseberg that I'd that I'd run into there and said, oh, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.000 you guys are going back to the coast and I 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:19.800 have fun shooting your little five point We'll be here 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.320 chasing these big bulls. And and I talked to my 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.200 buddy ties Stubblefield actually, and he he told me, yeah, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.120 I talked to him that. You know, they elk lit 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.280 up like two days later. For the last four days 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.000 of the season, everybody bailed out of there and the 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.560 pressure got lighter in the elk. Just yeah, I got 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.760 fired up again. Conversely, I got a friend he's passed 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.320 away now, but he uh was up in the tobacco 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:45.279 or roote mountains and just you know, stumbled onto herd 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.200 helt on the hillside. And that dude could never get 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.159 it out of his head. And like when he went 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.560 out hunting, his elk hunt was the goal and be 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:58.440 like nope, not there, go back to this truck. I 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.880 mean for years he just had it was like you 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:03.920 check they're either they're or not out there, and then 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.520 you know later I was sin I think that just 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.480 one day someone bumps the milk and they wand up 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.640 on the hills. I'm taking that approach before. We just 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:16.120 can't you can't shake it that you've seen an animal there. Yeah, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:17.800 it was just like it haunted him. Man, it was 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:22.960 just he just like the idea of him on that slope. Um. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:27.680 The other day, I had to go down to Kansas 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.360 to do a I was like given a talk to 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:37.280 all the people to teach hunter's ed in Kansas. And 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.640 I get off the plane and spend about an hour 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.839 driving behind a dude who's got a thing. Um, I'd 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:47.880 rather be shooting Yankees, remember that, which is particularly offensive 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:52.200 to me having lived in four northern tier states. Um, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.160 But I went to this thing like and and I'm 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.159 getting to talk to the hunting need instructors. There's Separate 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.720 hundred up there, and this guy asked me a question 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:07.320 about what's my thoughts on eating bullet lead right letting meat? 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.000 And I go to and we get talking about X 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.240 rays that they're kind of floating around online where they 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.239 they'll shoot an animal with a you know, a jacket 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.920 and lead bullet, and then looking where all the lead 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.600 winds up in the carcass um because it gets into 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.600 little fragments, getting the vascular system and wind up being 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:37.160 far removed from the wound channel and it hits bone 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.760 and breaks off and gets sent off in various directions. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.320 And he's actually are floating around you look like you 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.080 look at something that's been hitting the shoulder, and I 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:50.560 mean there's bits lead nine ten inches out from there. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.760 And when I started looking at those pictures and a 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.360 friend who's a big anti lead advocate, Um, he's he's 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.240 a biologist. I'll give him some credit, but big anti 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:03.640 led guy he's the one that sent it to me, 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.920 and he's kind of like disbelief that people are eating 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.480 his stuff. Other people I know. This is all something 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.160 we conversed about other people I know, UM say that 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.120 that the way that is it's inert. Your body doesn't 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.560 dissolve that led down. He just passed it out. A 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.200 guy commented how he'd been eating the old guy. He's 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.160 in his seventies. He's been eating wild game his entire life, sauce. 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.560 I can't even imagine how many shotgun pellets I've eaten. 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.000 He went in and asked his doctor to test his lad. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.120 He said, they don't even test lead. He may like. 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.040 He insisted that someone tests has led and he had, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.000 you know, like wherever the I feel like he was 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:47.400 telling me like high lead is point to something or whatever. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.400 And he didn't even have like detectable levels. So he's like, 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.080 if you're if you're gonna happen, it gonna happen to me. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.440 We have this big conversation. So after I give the talk, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.920 this old timer comes up to me and uh establishes 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.839 his credentials in the field of lead by explaining that 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.040 he was a twenty five years like a munitions guy 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:10.880 in the military, and uh, he starts telling me that 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.880 it's all this whole thing about lead is bs about 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:20.240 lead ammo. Okay, did lead ammo um and shot pellets 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:25.800 and stuff like that doesn't affect wildlife. Um, it's not 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.520 soluble in that form, just passes through your system. That 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:35.000 it was all the larkey when the steel shot, you know, 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.160 when the lead the lead shot band for Federal Migratory 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.360 Waterfall went into play. And he had a point to me. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.120 He says, how many times have you opened up a 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.800 gizzard in your life off a ducker goose and found 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.560 a pellet in it? And I got thinking about it 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.160 and it had never happened. And he said, been hunting 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:53.760 water found my whole life and never seen a pellet 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.520 in there. And he pointed out that now you can't 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:02.600 use lead. Let me back up clarify that when what 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.560 year was it the lead band eighty I remember I 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.360 was already hunting when it went into effect. Um. They 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.960 they phased it out over the final few years of 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.000 the eighties, and I think ninety one was the first 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.560 year when nobody could hunt migratory birds with lead shot. Yeah, 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:23.400 so they had ducks and geese pick up um grit 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.880 for their crop, you know, and uh, they pick up 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.280 gravel and it goes into crop and they don't have 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:31.560 a stomach or not like you think. So when they 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.640 eat food, what am I trying to send me? Back? Up? 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.920 Pick up grit for their gizzard goes in their gizzard. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.080 So when a when a bird eats, he his food 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:43.720 going to his crop. Then from his crop, it goes 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.280 down to his gizzard and the gizzards just like this 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.440 muscle that squeezes, and it's full of rocks, and uh, 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.960 the rocks pulverized the food. They build their digestive system 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.720 basically by eating grind up whatever they eat, and then 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.839 they grind up materials eventually gets so ground up that 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.400 this passed through the bird. That's why I see different 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.679 times a day, you know, I see grouse or doves 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.559 or any number of things feeding on the side of 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.439 the road, just pecking around. There's going to get gravel 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.920 um waterfowl, the argument goes, and we'll get into the 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:19.160 truth of this or not waterfall picks up shot lead 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.680 shot as grit, and then they would get lead poisoning 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.560 and it would cause the birds to get lethargic and die. 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:35.520 So in the late eighties early nineties, for because waterfalls 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.280 managed on the federal level, a federal ban on using 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.560 lead shot went into effect. I remember that happened as 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.880 a kid, and I remember guys quit, remember like guys 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:52.000 quit hunting over the lead issue. And and to clarify, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.120 it really raised its head in the mid seventies, like 0:11:55.160 --> 0:12:02.360 in and with groups demanding an environmental impact statement four 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.840 UM the federal Waterfowl regulations. And then in seventy six 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.360 they issued an environmental impact statement that addressed this, and 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.439 they began to impose restrictions on certain areas and lead shot, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.000 and that raised sort of the specter of, you know, 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.199 it was lead eventually going to go away. And then 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.520 in the late UM, I think in eight five or 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.800 eighty six, there was an amended environmental Impact statement that 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.520 really addressed um, sort of the secondary effects of lead. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.360 And that was basically there was a suit that claimed 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.440 that the environmental impact statement UH that addressed the impact 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:43.800 of lead on waterfowl didn't address the impact of eagles 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.840 eating waterfoul poisoned by lead and so sort of the 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.080 secondary effects of lead. And so that's what really led 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:57.280 to the eventual Okay, leads eventually gonna go away, and 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.880 then they began to slowly phase it out. They're led Zeppelin, right, Yeah, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:10.760 so by it was done, Yeah, guys got pissed because 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:16.040 lead maintains its know, it's heavier, so it maintains its velocity. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.640 And when people got done with lead, every went to steal, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.320 which is much lighter. Now there's all kinds of other 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.920 stuff that's really expensive, but people are pissed because crippling loss. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:31.160 Most people anecdotally felt that crippling loss was much higher 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.120 shooting steal than the lead. Um. It was a controversial 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.520 move and people felt that the science wasn't there. And 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:40.520 this guy was pointing out that not only was the 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.840 science there, but the birds aren't picking it up anyway. 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.880 This is just a dude on the street, okay telling 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.320 me this. So after I had this conversation, I checked 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:57.679 in with a couple of biologist friends who were um 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.880 who weren't of age at that time. Right, So they 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.280 work on waterfowl want in particular, my friend Brand works 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.959 on waterfowl now. But you know, he's young, he doesn't 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.120 he wasn't involved with that at the time, and he 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.720 just operates and and he substantiates it, but he just 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.080 operates under the assumption that you know, it was a 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.760 good move. What do you get. I mean, the reason 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.160 it's important now or the reason I'm starting to wonder 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.280 about it now, is because he has so many issues 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.480 now with guys being worried about humans and justin lead 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.680 and gave me, did anybody find a study on how 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.600 much lead you have to ingest for it to be damaging? 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.840 So I found studies on on birds, you know, how 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.240 how much lead a bird would have an assystem before 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.240 they really felt like it was impacting the birds psycho 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.840 psychological state, and that they talked about birds how they 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.040 kind of go crazy if they have too much lead. 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.360 And I don't remember what the actually was, Yeah, like 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.680 point one or something that it starts to impact, but 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:02.720 it has to be like point six for it to 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.960 really be fatal, you know, something something like Yeah, I 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:07.920 remember this guy was saying he had his lead check 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.680 that was that's why he had his led check to 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:15.640 his point too. Yeah, and um, maybe like two, I 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.360 can't remember what the hell he was saying. It's point 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.080 six where it really starts dangerous, Like dangerous was at 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:24.640 a certain level. Yeah, I mean I looked into some 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.360 of this, especially with the the recent events in Michigan, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:34.120 sort of the history of of lead poisoning, right, I mean, no, 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.400 it's it's an often lead it's already been like soluble. Yeah, No, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.280 it's a different I mean it's a different case. But 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.320 just thing about, um, the effects of lead on on 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.800 the body. I guess I did some background reading and 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.560 it was sort of interesting that, um, you know, the 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.360 the the knowledge that lead is toxic to human beings 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.840 is very old, but it's only sort of in the 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.720 late twentieth century. That I mean, the idea of acute 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:04.400 lead poisoning, um from like high levels of exposure. That 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.560 that's old knowledge. Um, but the knowledge, but I guess 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:12.520 the the recognition that small exposure was also dangerous is 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.320 much more recent, like in the late twentieth century. Especially 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.960 to kids. It's like subclinical levels of it. Yeah, they 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.040 test like my kids, They test my kids for lead 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.720 all the time. And when people get it, it it winds 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.880 up being they're getting it from eating paint and they're 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.960 eating dirt with this bend has a lot of lead 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.880 in it from from when gasoline was leaded, right, soluble lead, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.520 you know, I just want to know, and I don't 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.760 know because I've heard it from credible sources. Either way, 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:38.080 I just want to know if there's ever been a 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.600 case where fisherman, Now, I spent my whole life a 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.480 split shot in my mouth, because that's where we store it. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.240 Like you're all fishing, you know, you're running three split 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.200 shot and then you're in another area we should only 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.320 had one to go in your mouth. Then you're in 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:55.840 an area where you wish you had to. You pull 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.480 one out of your mouth, put it on, clamp it 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.840 with your teeth and your free line you got off, 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.840 you know, and you're setting them on and off. It's 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.320 like I grew up sucking on I've eaten. I don't 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.600 know how many shotgun pellets, how many lead fragments? Right? 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.600 Can anyone point to where a person got lead poisoning 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:22.600 from any kind of hunting fishing related activities? Also, how 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.120 documented is it that when birds and I'm not trying 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.200 to be like, I'm not trying to be contrarying, how 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.160 documented is that the ducks and geese that have high 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:35.560 letter actually getting the lead from shot and not from 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.680 industrial pollutants? Do you know I think it has to 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.600 find a different set of experts to Uh, I'm not. 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.480 I'm not because as far as I can tell, its 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.440 almost seems like unanswerable. How would you even how would 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.399 you even be able to observe them, you know, being migratory, 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.320 actually ingesting, and how they were eating lead versus eating 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.440 This guy was telling me, Yeah, they got lead poisoning, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:05.200 they got head poisoning from industrial pollutants. Yeah, soluble lead. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.320 You know, he's saying they're not getting it from picking 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.760 up your number six shot. That's what he's claiming to me. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.480 He said, you're passing that stuff. The turn to steel 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:19.120 isn't the only variable. They're like, the unleaded gas has 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.800 certainly changed, you know, the switched unleaded gas has certainly 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:27.320 changed the amount of lead, which which contemporaneous. I remember 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.280 being in high school and dudes having to go by 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.680 like dudes. This dude I grew up with, Brian Peterson. 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.880 He had to go by lead to put as their 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.200 phasing now leading gas stations. He had to go buy 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.880 a lead additive to run his old ass car. Huh. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.119 So that that was his claim And I'm not posing 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.240 it like you're supposed to know the answer. But the 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.919 reason it's significant is I've hundred in areas in California. 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:55.679 You can't use lead, right, you can't use lead bullets 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.480 the condor zone. And it's because they are like those 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:06.119 things are getting lead poisoning from eating, carrying from and 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.800 that is proven science. Well, it's proven that they have. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.920 Here's your thing. This guy was telling me, you can't 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.040 detect when you can tell something has been poisoned, you 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.160 can tell it's been poisoned by heavy metals. You can't 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:21.439 necessarily he was saying, you can't necessarily tell that it's 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.400 lead has heavy metal poisoning. He blames it on industrial 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:31.159 discharge and things like leaded gasoline, industrial discharge and all 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.320 these other causes. And he's saying, rather than address these causes, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.040 people have put their focus that it somehow has to 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:45.760 do with lead ammunition. When tuna, right, and other things 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.720 have some of these those things have high heavy metals 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:54.080 or mercury, because are they eating shot? Is someone shooting 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:59.040 tunas with? Let you know? It's I don't understand. So 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.119 I did read about a ban on lead sinkers in 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.720 Great Britain. Is ridiculous to me, and uh, but but 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.199 I guess, and and this is just from reading the 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.679 literature and no real you know, detail knowledge of it, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.600 but I guess there was a documented um boom in 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.480 in this particular Swan population that was effected that led 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.920 to this band. It was yeah, it was like sure, yeah, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.320 like these these particulars, don't they know how to put 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.680 the split shot on this particular It sounds like they 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.400 need to have like a like a public service annalysment 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:35.440 about crimping it on better. I don't know, um they 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.760 but they they they when they switched. When they switched, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.199 it was like the number of these Swans bumped up 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.679 by like thirty eight percent or something. That was the 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.080 statistic that I read. And and yeah, again it was 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.440 just sort of some background reading. But yeah, but I mean, 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.400 you know, you know, you could read that a thousand ways. Yeah. 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.800 I like, I hate listening to myself right now because 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.760 I sound like the incredulous old geezer who hates change 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.280 and like acts like expertise, is sup. I sound like 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.919 like Donald Trump, right, like experts. I don't need experts 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.919 tell me what I know. You know, I know the 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:13.200 sun rises. So there's a difference between not believing everything 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.600 you read and and not believing things that that you 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.320 don't agree with. Yeah, I told Yanni a quote one time. 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.359 Tell the quote I told you, or did you forget? 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:31.960 I forgot. Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect. I 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:35.080 can't remember who said it. It's good though, it's yeah, 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:40.239 So I'm trying. I've always carried around an assumption. For 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.919 a while, I switched and stop shooting lead bullets, started 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:48.080 shooting monolithic bullets, pure copper. People are going in that 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.400 direction anyway. But for a while I was like, oh, 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.720 I'll shoot these. It's a little different. You gotta you know, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.159 you generally kind of hold a little bit different and 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.200 makes everything different. I always like bonded bullets, and I'm 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.280 kind of shooting him again. There Day I got a 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.920 email from a friend of mine who's a um a biologist, 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:15.400 highly educated in the natural sciences, very avid hunter, and 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:21.359 sent me a thing about uh Oregonians use of lead, 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:25.879 sort of survey about people's relationships with lead ammunition. He 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:30.200 was very upset. I'm been hunting with this guy to spring. UM. 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.120 I'm trying to think. I gotta check my amy because 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:33.680 I don't want to show up with lead ami because 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:36.760 but I'm hunt with him a spring, but just distraught. 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.560 These like that, our fellow casadors, for you non Spanish 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:44.520 speaking folks that Spanish for hunter are littering the landscape 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:49.159 and littering their food with this stuff. And I just 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:53.520 don't know if it's like true or not. Yeah, I mean, 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:56.600 I don't know what what sort of an effect it has. 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:01.720 But when you think about the numbers of um, you know, 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.240 lad the you know, prior to the steel shot, you 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:08.600 think about the number of the amount of lead that 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:12.200 was pumped over like pothole lakes and things like that, 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:16.199 I mean thousands of tons. Mosquegon's day game area right 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.200 grew up, you'd go out on an open day and 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:20.399 shoot a cull box and shells. I mean it's like 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.720 raining shot. Yeah, and just what landed in my hat? 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.119 We've been enough to kill somebody. And each bang is 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:31.160