1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: can't predict anything. I'm with Janice podcast horror will tell us. 4 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: Thank you. Um. Randall Williams, who has been on this, 5 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: who's down on the show before, an environmental historian. Um, 6 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: I'd like to accidentally call him Randall Weaver, who is 7 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: the Ruby Ridge standoff person. But it's in fact Randall 8 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: Williams does that many Randall's everybody switches to Randy endearing. Yeah, 9 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: I know one other Randall. He's actually a neighbor. I 10 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: got a friend named Randy with an eye on the end, 11 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: and I call her Randall. I wish you don't like, 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: I can't imagine. And Matt Elliott here from who drove 13 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: up from World Bench made World Headquarters down. And like 14 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: in Portland property, Oregon City, Oregon City, there's an east 15 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: and the west side thing in in uh Portland. If 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: you live on the east side, you don't really consider 17 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: yourself in Portland unless you're actually East Portland. But in 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: eastern Oregon they call everything pretty much West of the 19 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: Mountains Portland. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So are you like in 20 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: the redneck part of Portland as a Yeah, that's the 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: redneck parts the industrial area. You guys still drink like 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Sanka and Folgers and stuff. And it's not like there's 23 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: still fifty five Starbucks within a mouth from from bench made. Yeah. Um, hey, 24 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: how we're just talking about hunting spots and stealing people's 25 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: GPS is in Uh and yan, tell tell what happened? 26 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: Now you're what happened? Now you're on an airplane and 27 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: which you ran a new dude who used to live 28 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: where you live. And uh, I met him through I 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: want to amy names even get in trouble, but I 30 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: met him through another friend, a colleague of ours, and uh, 31 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: we're skiing together, and uh it turns out that he 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: was a fishing guy and dabbled in the hunting guiding 33 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: a little bit and actually knew a friend of mine 34 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: from Colorado and now lives back east. And I saw 35 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: this kind of thing like, well, maybe I could get 36 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: probably a little bit of information out of him, you know, 37 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: So I just slipped in like a yeah, I'm new here, 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: and you know, what do you know about hunting right 39 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: here around the ski area? And I mean that just 40 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: opened up the floodgates. Man, I couldn't. I should just 41 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: have my iPhone out on record. But because he used 42 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: to hit all that stuff and moved away to Chicago. Yeah, 43 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: so we're no, we're just saying, how guys that don't 44 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: you know you just don't protect your hunting spots as 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: much as as you once did once you move away 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: from an area, Dude in the guide book. In the 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: guide book, I say, I've gotten a lot of hunting 48 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: spots by talking to people who used to live somewhere 49 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: that don't anymore because they don't care. And now I'm 50 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: in the situation where I used to live. You know, 51 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time a decade ago somewhere 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: and I'll tell people now, I'll be like, oh, you know, 53 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: I haven't been in a decade, but go check it out. 54 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: And I I knew this dude who was working on 55 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, on X on X maps. They're in Missoula. 56 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: So I know a guy who moved to Missoula to 57 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: work there, And I'm like, hey, man, you know what 58 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: you ought to do is this is place we used 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: to find bears in the spring. I'm like around May eleven, 60 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: like between the six and the eleven drive up to 61 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: this trailhead and you're gonna get out of your car 62 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: and you're gonna think's ridiculous because it's gonna be a 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: ask load of snow. Never mind the snow. Walk up 64 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: two miles and there's gonna be a southeast exposure that's 65 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: gonna have a bald spot on the size of a 66 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: couple of football fields, and watch that for the day. 67 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: Because it used to work out. He goes up there 68 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: one day, comes back, calls, he says, oh, it's too snowy. 69 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, just park, go back, walk up. It 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it looks like with the snow. Never mind, 71 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: the snow goes up there, says there, black bear comes out, 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: misses it, something like that. Spot still is good. So 73 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: old spots can be good, definitely. Animals don't know how 74 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: much time went by. I think there's I think they're 75 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: cyclical too, you know, spots. I think they get popular 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: with guys, they start to get hit hard. Animals maybe 77 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: move out a little bit, or you get a little nocturnal, 78 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: and then all of sudd everybody's like, there's a lot sucks, 79 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: and then you roll in, you know, to you it's 80 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: like Nirvana because he's rolling. There's nobody there. Yeah, that 81 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: happens even in the side of the season. You know, 82 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: it's like people going hit up a spot. They might 83 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: have drawn a limited entry tag and people are hunting it. 84 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: That happened us last year. There was just a ton 85 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: of pressure on this spot and everybody bailed because the 86 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: elk was shut down. Because the human pressure definitely affects, 87 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: you know, how vocal the elk are. My buddy felt 88 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: like there was no elk to be found. We'd drawn 89 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: the tag sort on his preference points. We said, all right, well, 90 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, go home. I'll hunt the coast instead, and 91 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: we we bailed out of there. And then a friend 92 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: of mine told me later who knew some guys from 93 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: Roseberg that I'd that I'd run into there and said, oh, 94 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: you guys are going back to the coast and I 95 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: have fun shooting your little five point We'll be here 96 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: chasing these big bulls. And and I talked to my 97 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: buddy ties Stubblefield actually, and he he told me, yeah, 98 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: I talked to him that. You know, they elk lit 99 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: up like two days later. For the last four days 100 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: of the season, everybody bailed out of there and the 101 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: pressure got lighter in the elk. Just yeah, I got 102 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: fired up again. Conversely, I got a friend he's passed 103 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: away now, but he uh was up in the tobacco 104 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: or roote mountains and just you know, stumbled onto herd 105 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: helt on the hillside. And that dude could never get 106 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: it out of his head. And like when he went 107 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: out hunting, his elk hunt was the goal and be 108 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: like nope, not there, go back to this truck. I 109 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: mean for years he just had it was like you 110 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: check they're either they're or not out there, and then 111 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: you know later I was sin I think that just 112 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: one day someone bumps the milk and they wand up 113 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: on the hills. I'm taking that approach before. We just 114 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: can't you can't shake it that you've seen an animal there. Yeah, 115 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: it was just like it haunted him. Man, it was 116 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: just he just like the idea of him on that slope. Um. 117 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: The other day, I had to go down to Kansas 118 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: to do a I was like given a talk to 119 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: all the people to teach hunter's ed in Kansas. And 120 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: I get off the plane and spend about an hour 121 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: driving behind a dude who's got a thing. Um, I'd 122 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: rather be shooting Yankees, remember that, which is particularly offensive 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: to me having lived in four northern tier states. Um, 124 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: But I went to this thing like and and I'm 125 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: getting to talk to the hunting need instructors. There's Separate 126 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: hundred up there, and this guy asked me a question 127 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: about what's my thoughts on eating bullet lead right letting meat? 128 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: And I go to and we get talking about X 129 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: rays that they're kind of floating around online where they 130 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 1: they'll shoot an animal with a you know, a jacket 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: and lead bullet, and then looking where all the lead 132 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: winds up in the carcass um because it gets into 133 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: little fragments, getting the vascular system and wind up being 134 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: far removed from the wound channel and it hits bone 135 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: and breaks off and gets sent off in various directions. 136 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: And he's actually are floating around you look like you 137 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: look at something that's been hitting the shoulder, and I 138 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: mean there's bits lead nine ten inches out from there. 139 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: And when I started looking at those pictures and a 140 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: friend who's a big anti lead advocate, Um, he's he's 141 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: a biologist. I'll give him some credit, but big anti 142 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: led guy he's the one that sent it to me, 143 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: and he's kind of like disbelief that people are eating 144 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: his stuff. Other people I know. This is all something 145 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: we conversed about other people I know, UM say that 146 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: that the way that is it's inert. Your body doesn't 147 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: dissolve that led down. He just passed it out. A 148 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: guy commented how he'd been eating the old guy. He's 149 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: in his seventies. He's been eating wild game his entire life, sauce. 150 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine how many shotgun pellets I've eaten. 151 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: He went in and asked his doctor to test his lad. 152 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: He said, they don't even test lead. He may like. 153 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: He insisted that someone tests has led and he had, 154 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: you know, like wherever the I feel like he was 155 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: telling me like high lead is point to something or whatever. 156 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: And he didn't even have like detectable levels. So he's like, 157 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: if you're if you're gonna happen, it gonna happen to me. 158 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: We have this big conversation. So after I give the talk, 159 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: this old timer comes up to me and uh establishes 160 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: his credentials in the field of lead by explaining that 161 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: he was a twenty five years like a munitions guy 162 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: in the military, and uh, he starts telling me that 163 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: it's all this whole thing about lead is bs about 164 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: lead ammo. Okay, did lead ammo um and shot pellets 165 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: and stuff like that doesn't affect wildlife. Um, it's not 166 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: soluble in that form, just passes through your system. That 167 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: it was all the larkey when the steel shot, you know, 168 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: when the lead the lead shot band for Federal Migratory 169 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: Waterfall went into play. And he had a point to me. 170 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: He says, how many times have you opened up a 171 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: gizzard in your life off a ducker goose and found 172 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: a pellet in it? And I got thinking about it 173 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: and it had never happened. And he said, been hunting 174 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: water found my whole life and never seen a pellet 175 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: in there. And he pointed out that now you can't 176 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: use lead. Let me back up clarify that when what 177 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: year was it the lead band eighty I remember I 178 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: was already hunting when it went into effect. Um. They 179 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: they phased it out over the final few years of 180 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: the eighties, and I think ninety one was the first 181 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: year when nobody could hunt migratory birds with lead shot. Yeah, 182 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: so they had ducks and geese pick up um grit 183 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: for their crop, you know, and uh, they pick up 184 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: gravel and it goes into crop and they don't have 185 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: a stomach or not like you think. So when they 186 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: eat food, what am I trying to send me? Back? Up? 187 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: Pick up grit for their gizzard goes in their gizzard. 188 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: So when a when a bird eats, he his food 189 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: going to his crop. Then from his crop, it goes 190 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: down to his gizzard and the gizzards just like this 191 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: muscle that squeezes, and it's full of rocks, and uh, 192 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: the rocks pulverized the food. They build their digestive system 193 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: basically by eating grind up whatever they eat, and then 194 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: they grind up materials eventually gets so ground up that 195 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: this passed through the bird. That's why I see different 196 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: times a day, you know, I see grouse or doves 197 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: or any number of things feeding on the side of 198 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: the road, just pecking around. There's going to get gravel 199 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: um waterfowl, the argument goes, and we'll get into the 200 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: truth of this or not waterfall picks up shot lead 201 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: shot as grit, and then they would get lead poisoning 202 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: and it would cause the birds to get lethargic and die. 203 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: So in the late eighties early nineties, for because waterfalls 204 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: managed on the federal level, a federal ban on using 205 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: lead shot went into effect. I remember that happened as 206 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: a kid, and I remember guys quit, remember like guys 207 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: quit hunting over the lead issue. And and to clarify, 208 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: it really raised its head in the mid seventies, like 209 00:11:55,160 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: in and with groups demanding an environmental impact statement four 210 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: UM the federal Waterfowl regulations. And then in seventy six 211 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: they issued an environmental impact statement that addressed this, and 212 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: they began to impose restrictions on certain areas and lead shot, 213 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: and that raised sort of the specter of, you know, 214 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: it was lead eventually going to go away. And then 215 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: in the late UM, I think in eight five or 216 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: eighty six, there was an amended environmental Impact statement that 217 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: really addressed um, sort of the secondary effects of lead. 218 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: And that was basically there was a suit that claimed 219 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: that the environmental impact statement UH that addressed the impact 220 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: of lead on waterfowl didn't address the impact of eagles 221 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: eating waterfoul poisoned by lead and so sort of the 222 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: secondary effects of lead. And so that's what really led 223 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: to the eventual Okay, leads eventually gonna go away, and 224 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: then they began to slowly phase it out. They're led Zeppelin, right, Yeah, 225 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: so by it was done, Yeah, guys got pissed because 226 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: lead maintains its know, it's heavier, so it maintains its velocity. 227 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: And when people got done with lead, every went to steal, 228 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: which is much lighter. Now there's all kinds of other 229 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: stuff that's really expensive, but people are pissed because crippling loss. 230 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: Most people anecdotally felt that crippling loss was much higher 231 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: shooting steal than the lead. Um. It was a controversial 232 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: move and people felt that the science wasn't there. And 233 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: this guy was pointing out that not only was the 234 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: science there, but the birds aren't picking it up anyway. 235 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: This is just a dude on the street, okay telling 236 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: me this. So after I had this conversation, I checked 237 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: in with a couple of biologist friends who were um 238 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: who weren't of age at that time. Right, So they 239 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: work on waterfowl want in particular, my friend Brand works 240 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: on waterfowl now. But you know, he's young, he doesn't 241 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: he wasn't involved with that at the time, and he 242 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: just operates and and he substantiates it, but he just 243 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: operates under the assumption that you know, it was a 244 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: good move. What do you get. I mean, the reason 245 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: it's important now or the reason I'm starting to wonder 246 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: about it now, is because he has so many issues 247 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: now with guys being worried about humans and justin lead 248 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: and gave me, did anybody find a study on how 249 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: much lead you have to ingest for it to be damaging? 250 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: So I found studies on on birds, you know, how 251 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: how much lead a bird would have an assystem before 252 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: they really felt like it was impacting the birds psycho 253 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: psychological state, and that they talked about birds how they 254 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of go crazy if they have too much lead. 255 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: And I don't remember what the actually was, Yeah, like 256 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: point one or something that it starts to impact, but 257 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: it has to be like point six for it to 258 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: really be fatal, you know, something something like Yeah, I 259 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: remember this guy was saying he had his lead check 260 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: that was that's why he had his led check to 261 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: his point too. Yeah, and um, maybe like two, I 262 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: can't remember what the hell he was saying. It's point 263 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: six where it really starts dangerous, Like dangerous was at 264 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: a certain level. Yeah, I mean I looked into some 265 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: of this, especially with the the recent events in Michigan, 266 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: sort of the history of of lead poisoning, right, I mean, no, 267 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: it's it's an often lead it's already been like soluble. Yeah, No, 268 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: it's a different I mean it's a different case. But 269 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: just thing about, um, the effects of lead on on 270 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: the body. I guess I did some background reading and 271 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: it was sort of interesting that, um, you know, the 272 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: the the knowledge that lead is toxic to human beings 273 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: is very old, but it's only sort of in the 274 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: late twentieth century. That I mean, the idea of acute 275 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: lead poisoning, um from like high levels of exposure. That 276 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: that's old knowledge. Um, but the knowledge, but I guess 277 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: the the recognition that small exposure was also dangerous is 278 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: much more recent, like in the late twentieth century. Especially 279 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: to kids. It's like subclinical levels of it. Yeah, they 280 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: test like my kids, They test my kids for lead 281 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: all the time. And when people get it, it it winds 282 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: up being they're getting it from eating paint and they're 283 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: eating dirt with this bend has a lot of lead 284 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: in it from from when gasoline was leaded, right, soluble lead, 285 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, I just want to know, and I don't 286 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: know because I've heard it from credible sources. Either way, 287 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: I just want to know if there's ever been a 288 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: case where fisherman, Now, I spent my whole life a 289 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: split shot in my mouth, because that's where we store it. 290 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: Like you're all fishing, you know, you're running three split 291 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: shot and then you're in another area we should only 292 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: had one to go in your mouth. Then you're in 293 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: an area where you wish you had to. You pull 294 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: one out of your mouth, put it on, clamp it 295 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: with your teeth and your free line you got off, 296 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, and you're setting them on and off. It's 297 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: like I grew up sucking on I've eaten. I don't 298 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: know how many shotgun pellets, how many lead fragments? Right? 299 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: Can anyone point to where a person got lead poisoning 300 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: from any kind of hunting fishing related activities? Also, how 301 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: documented is it that when birds and I'm not trying 302 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: to be like, I'm not trying to be contrarying, how 303 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: documented is that the ducks and geese that have high 304 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: letter actually getting the lead from shot and not from 305 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: industrial pollutants? Do you know I think it has to 306 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: find a different set of experts to Uh, I'm not. 307 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm not because as far as I can tell, its 308 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: almost seems like unanswerable. How would you even how would 309 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: you even be able to observe them, you know, being migratory, 310 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: actually ingesting, and how they were eating lead versus eating 311 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: This guy was telling me, Yeah, they got lead poisoning, 312 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: they got head poisoning from industrial pollutants. Yeah, soluble lead. 313 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: You know, he's saying they're not getting it from picking 314 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: up your number six shot. That's what he's claiming to me. 315 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: He said, you're passing that stuff. The turn to steel 316 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: isn't the only variable. They're like, the unleaded gas has 317 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: certainly changed, you know, the switched unleaded gas has certainly 318 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: changed the amount of lead, which which contemporaneous. I remember 319 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: being in high school and dudes having to go by 320 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: like dudes. This dude I grew up with, Brian Peterson. 321 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: He had to go by lead to put as their 322 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: phasing now leading gas stations. He had to go buy 323 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: a lead additive to run his old ass car. Huh. 324 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: So that that was his claim And I'm not posing 325 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: it like you're supposed to know the answer. But the 326 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: reason it's significant is I've hundred in areas in California. 327 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: You can't use lead, right, you can't use lead bullets 328 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: the condor zone. And it's because they are like those 329 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: things are getting lead poisoning from eating, carrying from and 330 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: that is proven science. Well, it's proven that they have. 331 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: Here's your thing. This guy was telling me, you can't 332 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: detect when you can tell something has been poisoned, you 333 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: can tell it's been poisoned by heavy metals. You can't 334 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: necessarily he was saying, you can't necessarily tell that it's 335 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: lead has heavy metal poisoning. He blames it on industrial 336 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: discharge and things like leaded gasoline, industrial discharge and all 337 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: these other causes. And he's saying, rather than address these causes, 338 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: people have put their focus that it somehow has to 339 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: do with lead ammunition. When tuna, right, and other things 340 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: have some of these those things have high heavy metals 341 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: or mercury, because are they eating shot? Is someone shooting 342 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: tunas with? Let you know? It's I don't understand. So 343 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: I did read about a ban on lead sinkers in 344 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: Great Britain. Is ridiculous to me, and uh, but but 345 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: I guess, and and this is just from reading the 346 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: literature and no real you know, detail knowledge of it, 347 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: but I guess there was a documented um boom in 348 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: in this particular Swan population that was effected that led 349 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: to this band. It was yeah, it was like sure, yeah, 350 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: like these these particulars, don't they know how to put 351 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: the split shot on this particular It sounds like they 352 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: need to have like a like a public service annalysment 353 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: about crimping it on better. I don't know, um they 354 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: but they they they when they switched. When they switched, 355 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: it was like the number of these Swans bumped up 356 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: by like thirty eight percent or something. That was the 357 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: statistic that I read. And and yeah, again it was 358 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: just sort of some background reading. But yeah, but I mean, 359 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you could read that a thousand ways. Yeah. 360 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: I like, I hate listening to myself right now because 361 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: I sound like the incredulous old geezer who hates change 362 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: and like acts like expertise, is sup. I sound like 363 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: like Donald Trump, right, like experts. I don't need experts 364 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: tell me what I know. You know, I know the 365 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: sun rises. So there's a difference between not believing everything 366 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: you read and and not believing things that that you 367 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: don't agree with. Yeah, I told Yanni a quote one time. 368 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: Tell the quote I told you, or did you forget? 369 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: I forgot. Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect. I 370 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: can't remember who said it. It's good though, it's yeah, 371 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 1: So I'm trying. I've always carried around an assumption. For 372 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: a while, I switched and stop shooting lead bullets, started 373 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: shooting monolithic bullets, pure copper. People are going in that 374 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: direction anyway. But for a while I was like, oh, 375 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: I'll shoot these. It's a little different. You gotta you know, 376 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: you generally kind of hold a little bit different and 377 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: makes everything different. I always like bonded bullets, and I'm 378 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: kind of shooting him again. There Day I got a 379 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: email from a friend of mine who's a um a biologist, 380 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: highly educated in the natural sciences, very avid hunter, and 381 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: sent me a thing about uh Oregonians use of lead, 382 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: sort of survey about people's relationships with lead ammunition. He 383 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: was very upset. I'm been hunting with this guy to spring. UM. 384 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think. I gotta check my amy because 385 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to show up with lead ami because 386 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: but I'm hunt with him a spring, but just distraught. 387 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: These like that, our fellow casadors, for you non Spanish 388 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: speaking folks that Spanish for hunter are littering the landscape 389 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: and littering their food with this stuff. And I just 390 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: don't know if it's like true or not. Yeah, I mean, 391 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what what sort of an effect it has. 392 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: But when you think about the numbers of um, you know, 393 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: lad the you know, prior to the steel shot, you 394 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: think about the number of the amount of lead that 395 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: was pumped over like pothole lakes and things like that, 396 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: I mean thousands of tons. Mosquegon's day game area right 397 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: grew up, you'd go out on an open day and 398 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: shoot a cull box and shells. I mean it's like 399 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: raining shot. Yeah, and just what landed in my hat? 400 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: We've been enough to kill somebody. And each bang is 401 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: is announcing announcing a night. You know, Uh, there's a whole, 402 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: there's a whole another component of this issue that's sort 403 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: of coming light. I was reading a research article about 404 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: the impacts gun clubs and and studies that they've done 405 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: on gun clubs. Because environmentalists are now coming after gun clubs, 406 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: you know, over putting lead into the ground, and this 407 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: guy right right, well, so this so this, so this 408 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: study Actually, you know, I think there's things that seem 409 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: like they're more legitimate and grounded in science and the 410 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: arguments environmentalists make, and then there's other things that are 411 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: just irrational and emotional base because they're just really going 412 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: after whatever issue because of some polarization of their politics 413 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. But this particular study, they 414 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: were looking at the impacts around the gun club and 415 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: they found at least as far as the water goes, 416 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: that that lead doesn't go very far. That type of lead, 417 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: it can't go very far. So they found that it 418 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: did impact the top two inches of soil, but nothing 419 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 1: nothing else. But so this study, I rn was too so. 420 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: And and again I think one of the difficulties I 421 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: have and really forming an opinion about this, other than 422 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: talking to biologists like you've had the opportunity to do, 423 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: is it's hard looking around at the internet and hearing 424 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: these to really discern. And that's something that sounds like 425 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: the the military person you talked to was getting out 426 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: a little bit. Also, it's like it's hard to discern 427 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: how much of this is somebody's like opinion or an 428 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: emotional opinion, and how much of it is actually grounded 429 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: in science. And even when you look at scientific articles, 430 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: it's still they still sort of seem to have oftentimes 431 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: a bit of an angle. So I guess about But 432 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: I think that here's kind of where I'm going. Where 433 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: I'm going on it is. I don't think we're done 434 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: making mistakes. We all laugh now, Like I'll tell the 435 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: story recently that my dad had uh got shot in 436 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: the foot with a shotgun, and he would go to 437 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: shoe stores to show people the pellets in his foot, 438 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: and they would X ray your foot in the shoe store, 439 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: see if your shoe fit right. Okay, So everybody's standing 440 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: around a shoe store all day long, no protection, X 441 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: raying people's feet the shoe salesman guy. Right, We now 442 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: realize that that's not a good idea to be exposed 443 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: to that level. Okay, So we're not done making these mistakes. 444 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: We laugh now, like the way they used to. My 445 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: dad said when he was again my old man was 446 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: when he was in the army, they put cigarettes in 447 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: your rations when he was stationed. When he was in 448 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: World War two. I think he said that three cigarettes 449 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: and you see you rashing each meal, so we now 450 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: laugh like ha ha. Can you believe that they didn't know? 451 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: We're not done making mistakes right I'm in full agreement. 452 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: We're making them right now, and our kids will be like, 453 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: can you believe those sons of it is used to X? 454 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: And it's us right now at this table. So in 455 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: some way, I'm like, Okay, if there is all the 456 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: hysteria and some people are sitting around and saying like, yeah, 457 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: but you can't totally don't really know. You can't totally 458 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: prove you don't really know. At what point are you 459 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: being like Big Tobacco, who probably is still arguing that 460 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: cigarettes are fine, you know, for the NFL, and that 461 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: concussions don't matter. It's like, at some point, um the 462 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: tide turns, and you know, I want it. I don't 463 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: want to like stop doing something because it just works 464 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: so good and then be down the road like the 465 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: I who is the lated doctor. But the other hand, 466 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to be like I don't want to 467 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: be misled led misled. I suppose in the end, you 468 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: just have to be open to reality when it comes 469 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, right, Yeah, I think this is one 470 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: of those issues too that um, you know, there's a 471 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: tendency I think too if you don't necessarily agree with something, 472 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: or you're on the other side of the issue, you 473 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: begin to um misrepresent the intentions of the other side, right, 474 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: And I think an example, well, I guess, like, um, 475 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: in a recent podcast, you had a letter from a 476 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: listener who's talking about the reintroduction of wolves as a 477 00:27:51,600 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: um a ploy, right, or that the intance pushed for 478 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: the wolf reintroduction as a way to disarm America because 479 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: the wolves would eat all of the game and everyone 480 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: would be like, well, fucket and sell their guns. Yeah, 481 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean here's someone else. I mean, or I guess 482 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: in his mind that they would destroy him in a 483 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: way like not they could, they sold me, they'd still 484 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: be in existence. But it was just a way to 485 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: get to disarm America. And I'm like, you know, the 486 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: wolf reintroduction was controversial. That seems like a very roundabout 487 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: way disarming. And I mean that that guy, that guy's 488 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: you know, he's he's allowed, he's fully entitled to his credit. 489 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: I gotta give credit. He was saying that his buddy buddy, 490 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: buddy thinks that, and he was wanting to find a 491 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: way to articulate to his buddy why that's probably not true. Yeah, no, 492 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: we won't. So yeah, we won't. We won't pay him 493 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: into that box. But um, you know that that guy 494 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: is fully entitled to his to his belief that wolf 495 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: Ree introduction was a bad idea. But it doesn't change 496 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: the fact that there were decades of um biological studies 497 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: and scientific studies that led up to that decision. And 498 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: there's a documented history of of what the um So 499 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, if the Clintons were to go back in 500 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: time and and uh and and create this ploy, I mean, 501 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: and and the other thing too, I guess is that, um, 502 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: the initial intention behind certain policies can be subverted by 503 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: other groups or can be used to further other agendas. 504 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily mean that that policy was bad from 505 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: the get go, right, or that it was all part 506 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: of one conspiracy. So um, yeah, that person could say, um, 507 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't agree with wolf reintroduction, and I don't think 508 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton has gun friendly right, but he's like, and 509 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: he's like, but I go to tie those two things 510 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: to Yeah, yeah, So I mean it's one of those. 511 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: I think. I think the lead issue is UM is 512 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: one that that's sort of ah lends itself to that 513 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: sort of a a polarization, right because as you say, UM, 514 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: there are groups out there trying to shut down shooting 515 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: ranges because of this threat UM and and obviously it's 516 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: there's some debate as to how much of a threat 517 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: it poses to human health, but they're trying to shut 518 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: down shooting ranges, and so that is construed then as 519 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: an attack on larger issues. UM. But I think there 520 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: are certain things that we have to agree on, and 521 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: one is that lead can be toxic and it's not 522 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: good for you, and uh so, yeah, I don't know. 523 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: I think I think at some point you have to 524 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: come to an agreement on the fundamentals of a particular 525 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: issue before you begin. Is I have an enormous cash 526 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: Like if I was ever get in trouble, they raided 527 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: in my house, they'd be like huge cashing animal. I'm like, well, 528 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: you know it looks like that, but let's let's just 529 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: say he had always practice with your lead animals. What 530 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: are you gonna do? You still out there? It's really 531 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: unfortunate in issues almost any issue that people are passionate 532 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: about that. The polar opposites caused people in the middle 533 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: to feel like there's no truth. You know, It's like, 534 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: that's what you're talking about. It's like, you know, people 535 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: trying to shut down shooting ranges, and so then people 536 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: are like, oh, people are trying to shut down shooting ranges. 537 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: Then you know, there's no way that bullets are killing condors, 538 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: led bullets are killing condors. Like even though there's science, 539 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: people just sort of throw it all out the window 540 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: because they feel like, right exactly, I'll point out that 541 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: the gentleman who I spoke with, uh what alerted me 542 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: to buyas is he used the term eco fascists. So 543 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: then I'm like, okay, that's that. That ruins the rhetoric, right. 544 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: It's like when when someone says me like they're talking 545 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: about like some aspect of of liberals they don't like, 546 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: and they go, yeah, the libtards, it just shuts me down. 547 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, I'd probably like, honestly, I 548 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: probably would want up agreeing with you on whatever it 549 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: is you're talking about. But the fact that he just 550 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: used that term makes it very difficult for me to 551 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: carry on this conversation because I would hate for another 552 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: version of you to typify my perspectives as right wing fanatic. 553 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: You know, It's like I just I can't stand it 554 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: coming from either direction. Yeah, I can't stand that kind 555 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: of Yeah, like the eco fascists. I'm like, hey, it 556 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: might not be it might be a dude who knows 557 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: a lot about heavy metals, and it's I mean, that's 558 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: who it is. I mean, and that's who it is, right, 559 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: It's there. They're scientists out there who have spent their 560 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: entire professional lives studying these issues and trying to arrive 561 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: at some conclusion. I mean, they're there, uh, ostensibly performing 562 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: a public service, right, and so to to sort of 563 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: paint them into this corner and say they're they have 564 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: this agenda and they're attempting to wipe out hunting as 565 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: we know it, it's just not a very One of 566 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: the things that you run into that also though, is 567 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: unfortunately the biologists in the end are ultimately the ones 568 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: making the laws, right, So there are people that may 569 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: or may not know as much about those issues that 570 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,479 Speaker 1: don't spend their whole life it's just investing everything and 571 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: whatever that issue is. Then you've got some Natural Resources 572 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: committee that spends thirty minutes on something that says, you know, 573 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: you know whatever, done pound to gather and that's it. 574 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: And they vote along party lines anyways in some in 575 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: some respect right now, like both my brothers are a cologists. Okay, 576 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: they like did biology and went into a cology specifically, 577 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, and they operate under like what seems to 578 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: be like a scientific version of the hippocratic oath. I 579 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: don't know the hypocratic goals, Like doctors take it right 580 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: and they like pledged to do no harm, to do 581 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: no harm when they're research yourself, and they research a 582 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: lot of things, um. Each of the one deals with 583 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: aquatic invertebrates and fish more and one deals with plant 584 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: ecosystems more um. But they'll be telling you about something 585 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: they're looking into cause and effect, causal relationships. Whatever it 586 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: could be with environmental plutants, could be with one of 587 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: my brothers right now is working on why answers to 588 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: why it's hard to get sage brush and other plants too. 589 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: Come back after when you're doing coal mine remediation, so 590 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: you do a coal a surface coal mine, and then 591 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: if you're obligated then to bring the land back to 592 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: some usable form. They find that it's very difficult to 593 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: re establish plant communities, certain plant communities, more difficult than 594 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: if the coal mine would or wouldn't have been there. 595 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: That's what they like to get it back to the 596 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: way you left it, right. What if there wasn't What 597 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: if there wasn't a coal mine and they just went 598 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: and it was just some other parcel of land that 599 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: they did something with and now they have to, you know, 600 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: bring that back. I don't know he's probably able to 601 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: answer that, but that's what he's working because when they 602 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: do a coal mine, they you're you're bonding it, right, 603 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,760 Speaker 1: So you're putting down a chunk of money that's held 604 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: by a governing agency and it gets given back to 605 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: you once your remediation is done. So you've done the 606 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: mind you bring top soil back in re established playing community, 607 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: and it's supposed to be you know, as good or better. 608 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: And the regulations used to be less strict. Let's they 609 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: used to be able to do grass. Okay, it was 610 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: easy to do that. Um Now in certain areas are 611 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: like you know, sage brush is something we're losing, Like 612 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: we're losing acreage of sage brush at an alarming rate. Um. Now, 613 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: when people do coal mine remediation where you've tore up 614 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: a community of a shrub community that contains like sage brush, 615 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: your other things, rab buck brush, and part of your 616 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: task is like, Okay, after the mining is done, it's 617 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: gonna go back to a stage brush community. Very difficult 618 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: to get that to happen. Okay, So he works on that. 619 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: Another builder of mind works on a lot of issues 620 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 1: haven do with a Nadramus fish, so water quality things, 621 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: climate change issues, and they'll be working on something. I'm like, well, 622 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: what do you hope happens? Like, what do you hope 623 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: you find out? They don't think of it that way. 624 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: The guy that's not my job is going to have 625 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: a hope about what happens, or I don't hope that 626 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: it's caused by this, or hope that's caused by that. 627 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: My job is just to try to answer, like what 628 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: is the issue? Right? Completely ruined the scientists. Yeah, It's 629 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: like I think there are a lot of people out 630 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: there working on things who aren't like I know how 631 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: to get them hunters. Yeah, but they don't. They're like 632 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: I'm trying to in the best way possible deliver you 633 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: factual information that policymakers can then you is to twist 634 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: and turn however they want to get their policy. I 635 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: don't think that's their whole. Their hope is that I 636 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: I can tell you this. Yeah, my brother dated a 637 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: bunch of my He did a bunch of work out 638 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: at Bristol Bay, stuff having to do with pebble mind. 639 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: No one asked him like, hey, dude, what do you 640 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: think about pebble mind? Do you like it or not? 641 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: He he wouldn't even go near that topic. Yeah, but 642 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: the persons what lives in what lives in this river? 643 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: I can tell you what lives in that river. I'm 644 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: not gonna tell you what I think about pebble minya 645 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: about damn? Sure tell you that this, this, and this 646 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: and this is in that river. Do these things, you know, 647 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: how do they respond to certain impacts. I'll try to 648 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: spell that out and tell it to you, But I'm 649 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: not gonna tell you what I think about the mind. 650 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: It's not my job. My job is to give you 651 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: information and hope that it gets, you know, use it 652 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: a sensible way. Yeah, and I think, um, you know, 653 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: recognizing that it's not to say that, Um, people don't 654 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: bring their own. But I mean science certainly is shaped 655 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: by a certain by Like it's a certain type of 656 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: person that's gonna follow that path and become a biologist, 657 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,439 Speaker 1: so they probably do. You know. It's it's it's less 658 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: likely that someone who hates the natural world is going 659 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 1: to become an ecologist, right, And so there are certain 660 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: there are certain larger biases, but um, to recognize those 661 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: maybe biases or the predisposition of of you know, people 662 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: like your brother, Um isn't to just throw it all 663 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: out the window, right, I mean there's a middle ground, 664 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: and I think that's um. Yeah, it's too too often 665 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 1: people say either the science is purely objective or it's 666 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: purely biased, and I think, like you can recognize that 667 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: it's it's more complicated than that. Yeah, I would think that, 668 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: Like you said, like they both got into what they 669 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: do because they like they grew up hunting fishing, and 670 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: it introduced them to the natural world. But they always 671 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: have that perspective and they still hunting fish. You know, 672 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: you could have they could be sitting next to someone 673 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: at a desk who grew up because their parents like 674 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: to hang out at national parks and we're big Sierra 675 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: Club folks, and they might have a purely antagonistic feeling 676 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: towards hunting and fishing right that they're like they believe 677 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: in like passive involvement with the natural world, like we're 678 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: not out there as players on it um. Fundamentally, they're 679 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: gonna look at stuff different differently. Doesn't mean when you 680 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: put your if your biologists, when you put your biologists 681 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: had on that you don't have to set those things 682 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: aside and focus on what's factual. But it's probably very 683 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: difficult to that. I'm sure it is. It is, but 684 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: I think right along with that, oh if most of 685 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: the scientists you know, my wife included, like they're they're 686 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: always open to being proven wrong, like it's okay you know, 687 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: for their research and stuff that to be done. And 688 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: even though you said those things, yeah, these things are 689 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: like you said with the river, like yes, this stuff 690 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,399 Speaker 1: in this river is doing this, this and this and this. 691 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: If someone else redid the research and put it in 692 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: a different way, and you know, had a different control 693 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,439 Speaker 1: group and disproved it, your brother would be like, oh, yes, 694 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: you opened my mind and let's move forward, you know. 695 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: So that's why that's why I has to be given 696 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: there to that, the fact that they're open to that change. 697 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 1: You know, human knowledge is an ongoing process. That's what 698 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: my old man would get so frustrated with ideas of 699 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: human evolution or the African diaspora because people be like, oh, 700 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, they found a new thing to sort of rewrite. See. See, 701 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: that's why none of this matters because they used to 702 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: say this. They say that. I'm like, yes, no one 703 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: ever said, no one ever wrote down the definitive answer 704 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: that will last all time. Right, It's just you just 705 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: adding bits of knowledge as you go along, and it's 706 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: a dynamic changing picture. In my own lifetime, like I 707 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: just have a personal curiosity about the peopling of the 708 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: New World. Right, So, who were the first people to 709 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: show up in New World in North America? When do 710 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: they get here? How they get here? Right? My understanding 711 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,919 Speaker 1: of that in my own lifetime has changed dramatically. Still 712 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: kind of the basic story. But I never fell in 713 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: love with one explanation. I just kind of follow what 714 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: people are thinking. Rather than feeling frustrated by the fact 715 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: that it changes all the time. It just like makes 716 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: it feel like an engaging process. Yeah, you know, but 717 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: some people do really fall in love with a version, 718 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: and they're antagonistic toward a new version, which could be 719 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 1: my body the lead guy. Yeah, Well, all of a sudden, 720 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, read up on this subject. It just really 721 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like there's a lot out there. So I 722 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: think that's kind of nice. This the Oregon stuff that 723 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: that you are biologist friends share with us. At at 724 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: least that's current, you know, that's in. They're doing some 725 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: work on that, you know, so hopefully we'll know more soon. 726 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm shooting non toxic water. Following the meantime, 727 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm shooting uh toxic no jacket bullets. Man shoot jacket 728 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: his bullets. Do you guys make any lead knives that bench, No, 729 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: we don't. We don't make any. I can't say that 730 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: we don't that there's not leading in our products. I 731 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I can speak to that 732 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 1: we don't have We don't make toxic We don't intentionally 733 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: make toxic lead knives. No, you know what you were 734 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: telling me, this changed subject a little bit. I was 735 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: asking why Bench may never make why you guys don't 736 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 1: do file at knives? Explain that so like, what's up 737 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: with the knife? So we we have looked at it, 738 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: and we actually used to have this line called Red 739 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: Class that everybody hated because it was an import line 740 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: and they're like, what the you know after you guys 741 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: doing this, Like, you guys are American, an American made 742 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: knife company, and that's what makes you great. Right, So 743 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: we we started did away with that, but those file 744 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: At knives were always they're kind of coveted people like, 745 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: oh yeah, Nail's old Red Class file At Knives laying 746 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: around And we were able to make file At knives 747 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: then because they were forty five dollars and there seems 748 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: to be I mean, when we make products the way 749 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: bench Baid makes products, we make products and we shoot 750 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,280 Speaker 1: for like maximum performance. Right, So so we're using laser 751 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: cutters to cut steels because we're using steels are too 752 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: hard to stamp and and everything that we're shooting for 753 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: is all to maximize value, like at a high level 754 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: to the end users. So then we try to figure 755 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: out how to manufacture it. And because we look at 756 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: things from a from a value and a performance standpoint, 757 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: and then figure out the manufacturing the costco way up 758 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: and with filet knives. They seem to be more of 759 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: a disposable item, you know, they're like people don't want 760 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: to pay generally more than seven is a lot. I 761 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: don't well, I was. I spent a few years in 762 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: Bristol Bay as a fishing guide and we had lots 763 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: of filet knives on the flight table, and you know, 764 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: you're cutting fish and then you just rip them through, 765 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: not even like with reckless abandoned, pretty much just rip 766 00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: them through a sharpener. And then you get back to 767 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: file at issh and you're you know, there's guts and 768 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: parts flying everywhere, and and it's just not a fleet knife. 769 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: Isn't something that has this like you have an affinity for. 770 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: It's just like this, Yeah, you feel the same way 771 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 1: most people do. And so we have to also be conscientious. 772 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 1: So like this is the reason we make them, is 773 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: for maximum performance, and if people don't want that, they're 774 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: not willing to pay that price for it, then there's 775 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: no reason for us to make it because if we do, 776 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: it's just gonna flop. So no one's gonna buy a 777 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: two knife. I'm not saying nobody's gonna buy a two 778 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: but there are a lot more people that would buy 779 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: other knives that we could make that like some of 780 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,399 Speaker 1: our other hunting products that they would be interested in. Uh. 781 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 1: And so we have we also have you know, like 782 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, limited capacity in our factory, so we have 783 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 1: to focus on the things that we know people are 784 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: going to really widely adopt or accept. Not that we 785 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: don't make specialized products. But as a kid and still today, um, 786 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,239 Speaker 1: you know, as a kid, I played thousands I mean 787 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,439 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly mean literally thousands of perch and blue 788 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: gills with those rappola yeah, with a little soft pine 789 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: handle with like some kind of lacquer on it. Yeah. 790 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: I still only one five volume rapaula like Filet knives, 791 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: one of the biggest selling knife still to this day. 792 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: Period knives. Yeah there, they were next enough, and we'd 793 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: buy the one that had like a little short, like 794 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: a six inch blade on it, and it was just 795 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: like the go to perch knife. I later, when I 796 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 1: got married, someone gave me a woost Off I think 797 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: flay knife, which I didn't like because it's too whippy. 798 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: You like a little more backbone. And yeah, I've generally 799 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: flat fish with a eight inch boning knife. You're like 800 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: those victor knocks. It's almost like a like scoops and 801 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: it's almost like a disposable kind of knife, you know. Yeah, yeah, 802 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: but yeah, flayfish at those but I don't know why. Yeah, 803 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: But then with hunting knives it is true. Like with 804 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: hunting knives, I'm real particular. But with flame eyes, I 805 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: don't know, but I always thought maybe because there's no 806 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 1: one made a souped up flame knife. Well, all, so 807 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: you're leaving like your flay knife out on the cleaning 808 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: table and you know, hosing it off and this and that. 809 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a way more utilitarian, you know, 810 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: when you're done cleaning, fish, spray off the table, push 811 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: all the knives to the side. People sharpener walk away. Yeah, 812 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: you don't fetishize like you don't fetishize flame knife. No 813 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: one ever gives you flynn ie and be like see 814 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: that that was my grandpa's flat knife, but like that 815 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: was my grandpa's hunting knife, like damn. And there's there's 816 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: knife companies that are good at doing that, right, I 817 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,799 Speaker 1: mean you have to be you have to understand like 818 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: what are we good at? You know, like like Dexter 819 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: Russell they make the white handled ones dexter Russell's kind 820 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: of what I figured so so, but those those are 821 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,439 Speaker 1: like combined, right, what do you mean combined? Like isn't 822 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: dexter is dexter Russell and Force? Are they the same 823 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,359 Speaker 1: company to make the food services? I don't, I don't know. 824 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: I don't have an answer that they make a very 825 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: similar problems. Do you make similar products? But the enforceners 826 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: are black hand. All the dexter Russells are white handed. 827 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: And food service and guides and guides talk about, oh 828 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: my boat knife. You know, most most guys in their boat, 829 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: they'll have like a boat knife. But where's their boat 830 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: knife go. It's like in the gunnal of their sled, 831 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,720 Speaker 1: the things sliding back and forth. It's just getting hammered. 832 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: It's they take terrible care of it. And they will 833 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: tell you, like, you guys got any Like I just 834 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 1: had one of my buddies the other day, Like I 835 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: need a boat knife. Like I don't really have a 836 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: boat knife. I've got like d two steals and we've 837 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: got steels are like I need a knife, I can 838 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,879 Speaker 1: just throw in my gunnale and you know, when I'm 839 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: out in Booie Tan and the saltwater. It is just 840 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,320 Speaker 1: like you know, I do whatever I cut herring and 841 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,359 Speaker 1: it's like, dude, that that knife, the blade is gonna 842 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,799 Speaker 1: rust off and like, you know three seconds if you 843 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: do that. And so they want a knife that cost 844 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: forty five dollars. It has really high chromium, you know, 845 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: and and not the and or chrome and doesn't have 846 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,480 Speaker 1: all the like high carbon in it, because that type 847 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: of knife just turns to rust when you get it 848 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: in a corrosive environment. So that's part of it too, right, 849 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: It's like when they're beating the junk out of the 850 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: knives to the steels that are generally more hostily that 851 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,760 Speaker 1: are going to perform better typically have high level levels 852 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: of carbon in them, and so they don't do well 853 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: in corrosive environments. Anyways, Why do why is it so 854 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 1: hard to make knives that loves salt water? Well, if 855 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: you're talking about a fixed blade knife, it's it's all 856 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 1: to do. And I'm not a metallurgist, but it has 857 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: everything to do with the chemistry of the of the 858 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: steel itself, like the chemical makeup. We do actually have 859 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,879 Speaker 1: a steel that we get uh from an Austrian manufacturer 860 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,439 Speaker 1: called N six eight that, which is I guess sort 861 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: of irrelevant what the number is. But N six eight 862 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: has a has a really high content of the types 863 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: of materials in the chemical makeup that allow for non 864 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: corrosive non corrosive properties in the steel. Now, the tradeoff 865 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 1: is typically if you drive up the anti corrosive properties 866 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: in a blade, you will lose edge edge performance. Right, 867 00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: So it stills like yeah, because like stainless like no 868 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: one ever makes a knife. It's just like is that 869 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 1: behaves like stainless steel, right, So our hardest steels are 870 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: not stainless at all, like we have. You have to 871 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: code them or you have to put certain finishes on them, 872 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: and people, I mean, you know, the people have to 873 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,760 Speaker 1: take care of the blades. Now, we also have semi 874 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 1: stainless steels, and we do have like S THIRTV that's 875 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: in all of these um hunting knives to hunt knives. 876 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: That particular steel actually has a really great balance between 877 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: corrosion resistance and edge retension and durability. But it will 878 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: still I mean, like you can't just like gout an elk, 879 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, carve up a deer with it, you know, 880 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: a quarter or something mount and throw it in your 881 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,720 Speaker 1: pack and not think about it for the next hunting 882 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: until the next hunting season to pull it out and 883 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 1: expect that the blade is not gonna have corroded when 884 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,319 Speaker 1: you left blood all over it, right, you gotta you 885 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: still have to take care of it. There are some 886 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,640 Speaker 1: super steels, like another bowler steel called M three ninety 887 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 1: that it's very expensive, but it actually has a really 888 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 1: interesting uh there's a really interesting ability in that steel 889 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: because of the makeup of it to offer both corrosioners 890 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 1: instance at a high level and edge performance. So there 891 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: are some I mean they make custom steels just for 892 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,439 Speaker 1: cutlery and and even metal manufacturing companies like s thirt 893 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 1: V and these hunt knives that is a steel that 894 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: was specifically designed for cutlery, like color, like home color, 895 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 1: any kind of like sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that. 896 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: There's a difference between those two. Right. We think about 897 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: our products in specialty night and the specialty knife market 898 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,239 Speaker 1: that typically does not include the culinary market. Most culinary 899 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,200 Speaker 1: products are going to be relatively low carbon stainless unless 900 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: you get into the Japanese like sushi knives. Those are 901 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 1: I got it. I got a souped up one of 902 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 1: those those are awesome. Then my wife always threatened to 903 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: throw away because an old girlfriend gave it to me, 904 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 1: but from Japan. But if you caught a line with 905 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,080 Speaker 1: that thing, lets you cut a lime or tomato and 906 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,040 Speaker 1: don't wipe the blade. Yeah, let the blades sit there 907 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: for ten minutes. It's gonna rusty, it turns the colors, 908 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,439 Speaker 1: you know. But you can sharpen a thing like nut 909 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: shaving sharp, I mean easily, you know, And that's like 910 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: I saw. I think that just having a knife that 911 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 1: uh would sharp and easy is the best because I 912 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: like the sharpen knives, but the met guys like I've 913 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,680 Speaker 1: caught up five elk with my knife and it never 914 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: got dull. There's something sept for that. But I'm always 915 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,160 Speaker 1: worried that guy will never get it sharp again. What happened? 916 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: What happens to that guy when he doesn't get it sharp? 917 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: You know enough for it doesn't because there's also something 918 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,919 Speaker 1: that keeping your edge sharp, It helps your edge stage, 919 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,160 Speaker 1: so right, so you know that. So what happens to 920 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 1: that guy when he's on his sixth elk and he's 921 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: halfway through it and all of a sudden, the nie 922 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: not sharp anymore? So there's a I like to keep. 923 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 1: You know, STV again offers a really great balance between everything, 924 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 1: and you can put an edge on it in the 925 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,280 Speaker 1: field with a carbide you know, one of those carbide 926 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,399 Speaker 1: sharpers with a little v V notch jaws and enough 927 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,640 Speaker 1: to get you through. Uh. But it's it's good to 928 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 1: carry like a knife that will do both. You have 929 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: a really hard most people carry multiple knives. Good to 930 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 1: have one with a really strong edge performing edge retention 931 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: type steel and then maybe one that's a little easier 932 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: to sharpen in case for some reason lose that or 933 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: That's what I do is I carry around, like when 934 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: I'm on a hunt, like a big game hunt, I 935 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: carry my pack my knife that only touches hide and meat, 936 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 1: right Like I don't cut cheese with it, whittle sticks 937 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: with it, and like that's not your pocket knife. Yeah, 938 00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: it's like it's just that. It's like it's for that. 939 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 1: If I don't kill something, it never comes out of 940 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: my pack. And then I got like a knife in 941 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: my pocket or knife somewhere, which is my just like 942 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,759 Speaker 1: you know, my messing around thing. And it's and it's 943 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,919 Speaker 1: worth mentioning also for our steels because we have such 944 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 1: hard steals that can be I mean you can do 945 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: to elk two deer or whatever with one blade. We 946 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,239 Speaker 1: also have this really cool program called life Sharp where 947 00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:48,400 Speaker 1: if somebody, even if they really am honestly that's you 948 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,560 Speaker 1: can just send it in and and our team that 949 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: we have this product services team, super expert technicians. It 950 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it's a thirty year old bench made 951 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,120 Speaker 1: or a brand new one. They'll disassemble the whole thing, 952 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: make sure they fix everything to the talk more performance, 953 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:02,560 Speaker 1: put an edge back on it, and send it back 954 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,880 Speaker 1: to its free service shipping bench made paces of shipping 955 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: not I mean not to get it to us, but 956 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,000 Speaker 1: we'll ship it back and pay the shipping. Yeah. Right now, 957 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 1: last I checked the turnaround times running three days. Really yeah, 958 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,040 Speaker 1: I mean three days in our facility, right, so they're 959 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 1: shipping and then shipping. Yeah, you guys just see some 960 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: messed up stuff rolling through crazy stuff, especially a lot 961 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: of military knives. I was looking at one yesterday that 962 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,839 Speaker 1: a guy had. He was it was a navy diver, 963 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: and he was down cutting rope out of a propeller 964 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,279 Speaker 1: and somebody turned the engine on and it sucked the 965 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: knife into the prop and the knife is just I 966 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 1: don't know how his hand it wasn't ripped off. I 967 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: have no idea what the knife is like. It's just 968 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,759 Speaker 1: been in half. The scales are all blown off of it. 969 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: And typically what our product services team will do when 970 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,319 Speaker 1: they get a knife like that, yeah, they'll you'll say, 971 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:55,759 Speaker 1: you know, if you can keep the knife, you know, 972 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: so we have the cool story or whatever, They're just 973 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,440 Speaker 1: send a new one out, you know. You know the 974 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,719 Speaker 1: company o R Outdoor Research. Yeah, I was down there 975 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,319 Speaker 1: one day. I used to have a friend of a 976 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,719 Speaker 1: friend I was working there, and we were down there 977 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,120 Speaker 1: monkey around and they got this wall of shame, which 978 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,959 Speaker 1: is like returns they've had. And one of the things 979 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,480 Speaker 1: like a guy had a pair of gloves you could 980 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: tell he had for a million years because they're just 981 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: like full of holes and worn out. And then he 982 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,919 Speaker 1: burned them in the fire. So it's like you tell 983 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: like that they were really messed up. Then he burned 984 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,480 Speaker 1: him in the fire, and he made a return on him, 985 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, and these things, Yeah, I just threw in 986 00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,440 Speaker 1: the fire for a while, he said, he said him 987 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 1: a new pair. We're just like insane stuff that people 988 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,120 Speaker 1: try to return you know, they have a wall of 989 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 1: shame at at loophole that I was looking at that. 990 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,759 Speaker 1: They're all swim Portland, so go there sometimes to take 991 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,320 Speaker 1: returns in or you know, look look around at new products. 992 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,399 Speaker 1: And uh I was looking at this wall of shame 993 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,359 Speaker 1: and there's a scope on the wall and it's all 994 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,240 Speaker 1: blasted and it's got a note with it. They frame 995 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:56,880 Speaker 1: that says, let brother in law borrow scope. Brother in 996 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:01,000 Speaker 1: law dropped scope and broke it. Never letting brother in 997 00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:09,759 Speaker 1: law borrowscope again. Going back to school too, Yes, um, 998 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,520 Speaker 1: who like, who do you guys mainly what's the what's 999 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:17,839 Speaker 1: your main clientele? Uh so our main clientele as far 1000 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,719 Speaker 1: are you talking about, like as far as occupation or 1001 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:22,920 Speaker 1: just as far as people like what are the main dude, Like, 1002 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:27,200 Speaker 1: do you guys sell more to law enforcement, military, more 1003 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: to just dudes who want a knife to carry around 1004 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,160 Speaker 1: for just general cutting stuff up. I think that people 1005 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:36,919 Speaker 1: arrive at a certain level of performance expectation and their 1006 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 1: products that regardless sort of of what walk of life 1007 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:44,280 Speaker 1: they're in, because we serve as people at all fiery MSS, military, hunters, 1008 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement, people that are just general sports cutlery enthusiast collectors. 1009 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,439 Speaker 1: That's the term sports color enthusist collectors, right, magazine. Yeah, 1010 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: well there's a whole industry. There's a whole industry magazine, 1011 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,320 Speaker 1: magazine yep, yep, and Knives Illustrated, and it's a whole industry. 1012 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:01,960 Speaker 1: We have a whole trade show dedicated to it. It's 1013 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: all custom knife makers. But I guess to answer your 1014 00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,759 Speaker 1: question in sort of a roundabout ways, that we make 1015 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,680 Speaker 1: knives for people that want to buy knives that are 1016 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: at the at the peak performance and maximum value that 1017 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,000 Speaker 1: they can get from a manufactured knife, you know, and 1018 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,080 Speaker 1: and we sort of bridge the gap between custom and manufactured. 1019 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,920 Speaker 1: There's a whole like world of garage shop type custom 1020 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: knife makers that make really exquisite products like you know, 1021 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,960 Speaker 1: like those even those uh like you're the the knife 1022 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,759 Speaker 1: that you have, the sushi knife, right, Some of those 1023 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: knives can be thousands and thousands, tens of thousands at 1024 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,759 Speaker 1: dollars that you know, there's a whole world of people 1025 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,960 Speaker 1: who just collect these, but not everybody can afford those, 1026 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,120 Speaker 1: and even the garage custom guys, it takes them. They 1027 00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,479 Speaker 1: have three year weight list for some of their products. Well, 1028 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: we're able because our owner originated in the custom knife 1029 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,840 Speaker 1: little bit then found this affinity and knack for manufacturing. 1030 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,200 Speaker 1: He started working with custom knife designers to bring custom 1031 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,680 Speaker 1: knives to a manufactured level at the at the same formans, 1032 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,880 Speaker 1: but then to make it accessible to more of the masses. 1033 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,799 Speaker 1: Yeah you guys. You guys still own about like a family, right, yeah, 1034 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,879 Speaker 1: the diass family. Yeah, who started it out? Started it out? Yeah? 1035 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,720 Speaker 1: And when did they do? When did they start? Uh? 1036 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,360 Speaker 1: The Benchmate was founded in nineteen eighties seven, so the 1037 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: next year is our thirtieth anniversary seven. Yeah, well there 1038 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,200 Speaker 1: was a company before that, so like in around nineteen 1039 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: seventy three, there was another company that made mostly Bally 1040 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: songs or butterfly knife. That's where the butterfly and our 1041 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 1: logo comes right because our our owner, the less Diasas 1042 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,120 Speaker 1: and and the family ownership less is Filipino and butterfly 1043 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,480 Speaker 1: knives are Filipino knives. And he's like calls himself unemployable, 1044 00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,840 Speaker 1: and he's just like he's like he's just an entrepreneur 1045 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 1: at heart, and he was like, you know, went to 1046 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,360 Speaker 1: a gun and knife show because he loved that stuff. 1047 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,240 Speaker 1: And he's kicking around, he's talking to these custom knife 1048 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,000 Speaker 1: guys and he's like, you guys, can you know, like 1049 00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: work out of your garage. You can live anywhere you want. Like, 1050 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,320 Speaker 1: this is the best thing I've ever heard of. It. 1051 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,000 Speaker 1: It's like it's perfect for me. So he started getting 1052 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,600 Speaker 1: into custom knives mostly through that experience and wanting to 1053 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: find something he could do for himself, and he just 1054 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,200 Speaker 1: saw the tremendous value that could be provided by a 1055 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,120 Speaker 1: well made butterfly knife. Nobody made good ones. They were all, 1056 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, like basically cobbled together, and so we always 1057 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,600 Speaker 1: used to buy can we'd make our own nun chucks. 1058 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,680 Speaker 1: What is that word it was? We called them. We 1059 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,280 Speaker 1: always saw their numb nunchucker, right, Yeah, we'd like buy 1060 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,600 Speaker 1: shitty butterfly knives and make nun chucks. That's all. Like. 1061 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes we'd spend weeks doing nothing but that. So he 1062 00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:40,000 Speaker 1: worked with custom knife designers to make beautiful, well executed 1063 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: butterfly knives, which actually is a really great design because 1064 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,960 Speaker 1: the two handles prevent the blade from going either direction, 1065 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,560 Speaker 1: and so if you make it with tight tolerances, is 1066 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,120 Speaker 1: a folding knife that basically is as rigid as a 1067 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,160 Speaker 1: fixed blade knife when it's so it's like a stiletto. 1068 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,280 Speaker 1: It's meant for like knife fight. Uh yeah, I mean 1069 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: originally I think originally Butterfly knives had martial arts sort 1070 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,760 Speaker 1: of a martial arts history, like like nunchucks behind him. Yeah, 1071 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,280 Speaker 1: so yes, they'll make you guess we'll make a butterfly 1072 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 1: We do, really, we do. We have this itselves like crazy, 1073 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,080 Speaker 1: and we used to make yeah, and we used and 1074 00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 1: there are four hundred dollars we used to make. Yeah, 1075 00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,080 Speaker 1: I might know a guy the uh we made our 1076 00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,680 Speaker 1: Uh it just has a number, so we make it's 1077 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,320 Speaker 1: we make the sixty to the sixty seven and uh. 1078 00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,800 Speaker 1: And they're just different blade variants. But who's buying them? 1079 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,480 Speaker 1: Mostly when you get into the Butterfly knives, those are 1080 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,520 Speaker 1: collectors people that are into like like real sort of 1081 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:48,800 Speaker 1: key niche or niche I should say type culory products. 1082 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,000 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna started carrying one man when someone asked 1083 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,080 Speaker 1: me to cut some topic but ripping thing all around. 1084 00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,800 Speaker 1: Some people are just butterfly and I love her too. 1085 00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:58,800 Speaker 1: I mean they just appreciate the design. You can flip 1086 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,080 Speaker 1: around Butterfly Knight. I have never got it a deer 1087 01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,400 Speaker 1: with a Butterfly knife but I was just looking at one. 1088 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,840 Speaker 1: I was trying to show it to my wife last 1089 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:06,960 Speaker 1: night and how I thought it could have been a 1090 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,640 Speaker 1: good hunting knife. And she's like, I don't care what 1091 01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:13,400 Speaker 1: you're talking about right now. Does the classic design have 1092 01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,360 Speaker 1: an edge on both sides? Uh? You know what, that's 1093 01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,840 Speaker 1: a good question. The one the most classic design I've 1094 01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,120 Speaker 1: seen from US is the blades called the Weehawk, And no, 1095 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,440 Speaker 1: it's a single edge. But we also have these crazy 1096 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,200 Speaker 1: blades called cris blades that look wavy and they're sharpen 1097 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:29,880 Speaker 1: on both sides. What I will tell you is that 1098 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,360 Speaker 1: if you're like the master of the butterfly knife, then 1099 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of like faux Paul almost to use a 1100 01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,080 Speaker 1: single side that you use a double side. Yeah. Yeah. 1101 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:39,920 Speaker 1: And there's dudes they are throwing them up and catching 1102 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,880 Speaker 1: them behind their back, and that's like, Yeah, next time 1103 01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,080 Speaker 1: I come to see you, I'm expecting this from you. 1104 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: When I send you a butterfly. They got a pocket clip? Uh? Some, 1105 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,680 Speaker 1: some do usually not. Usually they do not have a 1106 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,479 Speaker 1: pocket clip. They'll come with it with like a sheath. 1107 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,480 Speaker 1: You gotta be quicker on the draw than you know 1108 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,240 Speaker 1: out of your pocket. I had no idea, So in 1109 01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,720 Speaker 1: the bench made catalog. Yeah, it's in the bench made catalog. 1110 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: We've got to we actually have to two sort of 1111 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,760 Speaker 1: separate families of butterfly or ballet song knives. One that 1112 01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:13,480 Speaker 1: is more technologically advanced materials wise, it has like some 1113 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 1: stacked handles and some other things, and then one that's 1114 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 1: more classic with with like a machine stainless handles. Yeah. 1115 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,800 Speaker 1: So how long have you guys had the how many 1116 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,000 Speaker 1: years has been you've had the like an actual hunting 1117 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,440 Speaker 1: focus line and knives. Though since we've had an actual, 1118 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,480 Speaker 1: like core hunting line, it's only been three years. We 1119 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,200 Speaker 1: we've spent a lot of time, I should I should 1120 01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,880 Speaker 1: also say there's a caveat with that. We've almost always 1121 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,520 Speaker 1: had hunting knives in the line, and we spent a 1122 01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,720 Speaker 1: lot of time trying different approaches to that great that 1123 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,240 Speaker 1: were perfectly applicable to hunting or yeah, or even like 1124 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,600 Speaker 1: knives called the Burden Trout knife for I mean like 1125 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,000 Speaker 1: like actual hunting knives. But the Hunt series is our 1126 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:58,560 Speaker 1: first ever like fully vested knife series, like a full 1127 01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:03,720 Speaker 1: line of knives specifically applied to hunting. So when you 1128 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,640 Speaker 1: have like the steep country I'm actually holding you one 1129 01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,200 Speaker 1: of these right now. How did it come to be that? Uh? 1130 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,280 Speaker 1: How did like? Why? I know how to ask this? 1131 01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,880 Speaker 1: It's all over magazines, best this, best that? Is that? 1132 01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,440 Speaker 1: Like honest that? Or do you submit to those kind 1133 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:29,080 Speaker 1: of things? You mean like great New Year? Best in 1134 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,840 Speaker 1: the bastard tore it up so field. I feel like 1135 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,000 Speaker 1: every magazine you opened up had that knife. And we 1136 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,120 Speaker 1: do very little paid print advertising. And I love saying 1137 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,000 Speaker 1: this because hopefully it's will mean a lot of the 1138 01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,800 Speaker 1: print advertisers won't call me and solicit my business. But 1139 01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,120 Speaker 1: I somehow doubt that that's true. We do. We do 1140 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,720 Speaker 1: a very little print advertising. Most of what we invest 1141 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,640 Speaker 1: our money in is back into product technology. So typically 1142 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a biologist. I this is not 1143 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,120 Speaker 1: always true, but like with a biologist, you have to 1144 01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:59,720 Speaker 1: like come from a place of factual science or you're 1145 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,200 Speaker 1: not able anymore. For for people they're doing gear reviews. 1146 01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:08,080 Speaker 1: If you're letting advertising bias your gear reviews, people eventually 1147 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,680 Speaker 1: will see that and you will no longer be credible 1148 01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,760 Speaker 1: at reviewing equipment right, and and then you'll lose everything. 1149 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:19,280 Speaker 1: So usually with a magazine, there is no connection at 1150 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,320 Speaker 1: least as what they tell you. If I would like 1151 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,200 Speaker 1: tried to call an advertiser and say, hey, you're advertising 1152 01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:26,720 Speaker 1: a gerber knife, your your you gave a good review 1153 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,280 Speaker 1: to a gerber knife, and I just placed a full 1154 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,120 Speaker 1: page ad and that month's issue. That's bs you know, 1155 01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,200 Speaker 1: they would say, you know, we don't even talk to 1156 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,880 Speaker 1: those people. The editorial people are totally different from the 1157 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,280 Speaker 1: advertising department, and they do that because otherwise the publication 1158 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,840 Speaker 1: loses credibility. And do you think that's true? Because I 1159 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,160 Speaker 1: feel like I can just point in every single magazine, 1160 01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:49,400 Speaker 1: not always, not always, but like like Field and Stream 1161 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: Best of the Best, we don't advertise in Field and Stream, 1162 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,360 Speaker 1: never have or and we won Best of the Best 1163 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,000 Speaker 1: three three times, and I think three times in the 1164 01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,919 Speaker 1: last five years. And that's not because it's not because 1165 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,560 Speaker 1: we're paying for advertising. That's not what they call advertorial. 1166 01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,800 Speaker 1: So there's also advertorial right where you're paying for the editorial. 1167 01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,320 Speaker 1: That's cool knife. I think it says a lot about 1168 01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,040 Speaker 1: you two and the product that the sheath seems well 1169 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,640 Speaker 1: fought out and it seems solid. We've spent a lot 1170 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: of time on that in the last few years. We 1171 01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,480 Speaker 1: the sheath has been an afterthought for us because we 1172 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,000 Speaker 1: mostly were a folding knife company, ballet songs and things, 1173 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,680 Speaker 1: so there was a learning curve. Over the last ten 1174 01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,200 Speaker 1: years we started to get more into fixed blades to understand, 1175 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,280 Speaker 1: like in a fixed blade, the sheath is as it's 1176 01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:38,760 Speaker 1: as important as the as the knife itself. Kind of 1177 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,200 Speaker 1: knife you got, Randall, Well, I got a bench made. 1178 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:46,880 Speaker 1: Now what do you have before that? Uh? You know, 1179 01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,360 Speaker 1: I I have like a just a sorry to say, 1180 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:53,960 Speaker 1: I have like a little gerber pocket folder that I'll carry, 1181 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,760 Speaker 1: um and you don't kill anything anyway. Yeah, well, then 1182 01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,520 Speaker 1: I have to have one. I have to have one 1183 01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:03,880 Speaker 1: tucked away in the pack and that just as the 1184 01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,720 Speaker 1: rope and cheese knife. Yeah, but no, it's I mean, 1185 01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:12,080 Speaker 1: I uh yeah, I adopted sort of the and and 1186 01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:13,840 Speaker 1: now I have one of the other like the razor's 1187 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:15,800 Speaker 1: edge or whatever it is. But I like the like 1188 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:20,280 Speaker 1: the outdoor edge. Yeah, I like that goes in and yeah, 1189 01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,040 Speaker 1: and it's got more of a curved more of a 1190 01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,920 Speaker 1: traditional radius than the have a lot for caping and 1191 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:27,960 Speaker 1: stuff like that. I like that. But yeah, I mean, 1192 01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,760 Speaker 1: i'm i'm i'm I sort of got into the replaceable 1193 01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,880 Speaker 1: blades because I never I never got good at sharpening 1194 01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,280 Speaker 1: my own. Yeah, growing up, like for t happen, I 1195 01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,800 Speaker 1: spent a lot of times sharpening. Yeah. I mean there's 1196 01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,880 Speaker 1: a lot of said for replaceable. Once one thing a 1197 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:46,560 Speaker 1: guy said to me that weighed at me a little 1198 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,720 Speaker 1: bit later on was he's like he's talking about just 1199 01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,400 Speaker 1: like disposable culture. Yeah, And at first I dismissed it, 1200 01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,160 Speaker 1: but all I'm like, god, you know there is like 1201 01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,480 Speaker 1: he's like, whatever happen is like having a thing that 1202 01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,040 Speaker 1: you just have and you learn how to take care 1203 01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,080 Speaker 1: and like the whole world is memories associated. Yeah, that 1204 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,880 Speaker 1: was kind of knife, and that's that's sort of how 1205 01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,080 Speaker 1: I felt about the the havevalon. I don't think I'm 1206 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,560 Speaker 1: ever gonna look at the havelon and say, like a 1207 01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,320 Speaker 1: lot of good memories with this thing, you know, because 1208 01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,280 Speaker 1: my dad, my dad used to have this joke read 1209 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,880 Speaker 1: say like he had this old hatchet, like yeah, my 1210 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,760 Speaker 1: great grandfather's hatchet. It's had just had three new heads 1211 01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: and uhuh, four new handles. So now explain what you're 1212 01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,000 Speaker 1: in talent for randal Um. I'm here for the like 1213 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,680 Speaker 1: we're in Seattle, Randalls in Seattle, doesn't live here, Lisa Montana. Yeah. 1214 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:34,440 Speaker 1: So I'm here for the American Society for Environmental History, 1215 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,840 Speaker 1: the sh National Conference. Do you present anything? Nope, UM, 1216 01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:40,720 Speaker 1: here to listen. I'm just here to listen and to 1217 01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:45,880 Speaker 1: meet people, shake hands, UM, and uh, listen to papers 1218 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,919 Speaker 1: and what you wind up putting some papers in a magazine. 1219 01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the idea is hopefully I can 1220 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,760 Speaker 1: solicit some I work as an editor, um, and so 1221 01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,720 Speaker 1: I'm I'm looking for UM scholars out there that are 1222 01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:03,120 Speaker 1: doing interesting research and try to solicit some manuscript submissions 1223 01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:08,160 Speaker 1: that hopefully we can publish paying top dollar. Uh. No, 1224 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:13,920 Speaker 1: it's more of a charity thing, some good exposure. Yeah. 1225 01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean, give me a for instance of something you're 1226 01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 1: gonna go watch, like a presentation. Um. You know, there's 1227 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,640 Speaker 1: actually one panel that I'm sort of interested in. And 1228 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:29,240 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's necessarily for UM. It's it's 1229 01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,800 Speaker 1: more for personal interests and professional interests, because I don't 1230 01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:33,480 Speaker 1: know that would really publish any of these. But there 1231 01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:40,880 Speaker 1: there's a panel on uh sort of the the imposition 1232 01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:46,360 Speaker 1: of trapping regulations on UM Indigenous communities in in Canada. 1233 01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:51,280 Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, so so there are a couple, uh, 1234 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,640 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna really absolutely skim to the program 1235 01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,560 Speaker 1: a couple of times and just try to get an 1236 01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,040 Speaker 1: idea of what panels I want to stay it on. 1237 01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,640 Speaker 1: But there's a couple of papers about UM yeah, sort 1238 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:04,960 Speaker 1: of the changing politics and regulation of trapping UM in 1239 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,000 Speaker 1: I think like BC and so yeah, and and there's 1240 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:13,960 Speaker 1: imposition is being like the effects of those regulations on them. UM. 1241 01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:15,720 Speaker 1: I don't I don't really know. All I've seen is 1242 01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,240 Speaker 1: like the titles of the papers UM, but they're the 1243 01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,479 Speaker 1: sort of looking at UM how this affects I would 1244 01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:26,960 Speaker 1: imagine And here I'm sort of just speculating, but UM, 1245 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,680 Speaker 1: you know this is ah, these are practices and behaviors 1246 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,679 Speaker 1: and cultures that have existed for a very very long time. 1247 01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:41,040 Speaker 1: And uh, the the way that they they resisted or 1248 01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:47,280 Speaker 1: adapted UM. The imposition you know of of various regulations 1249 01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,720 Speaker 1: on these practices, I don't know. Yeah. So there's a 1250 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:54,360 Speaker 1: lot of and and there's there's scholars working UM in 1251 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,360 Speaker 1: all over the place. So it's you know, they're global topics. 1252 01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:02,040 Speaker 1: They're UM panel that are specific to North America, regions 1253 01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,919 Speaker 1: of North America. But it's it's sort of the full spectrum. 1254 01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,360 Speaker 1: And then there are also various workshops and different things 1255 01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:11,440 Speaker 1: like that. So um it should be a fun interesting 1256 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,080 Speaker 1: a few days. But it's these these uh every sort 1257 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,280 Speaker 1: of sub field of history has its own national conference 1258 01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:21,080 Speaker 1: every year, and so it's a chance for people that 1259 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:25,240 Speaker 1: are spread out across um various universities, you know each 1260 01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,559 Speaker 1: each you know, certain departments are larger than others. But 1261 01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,559 Speaker 1: you know at a at a school like the University 1262 01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:37,559 Speaker 1: of Montana, say there's one Russian historian and there's one 1263 01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,800 Speaker 1: environmental historian. And so the national conferences allow these people 1264 01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,080 Speaker 1: that are working on UH topics that speak to one 1265 01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,519 Speaker 1: another to all gather in one place and and share 1266 01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,559 Speaker 1: ideas and see sort of what their colleagues out there 1267 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,439 Speaker 1: are working on. Is there is there certain research that 1268 01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,400 Speaker 1: you look for, like specifically that you're hoping for out 1269 01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,880 Speaker 1: of this that you'll publish, not necessarily UM, just topics 1270 01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:08,680 Speaker 1: relevant to UH Western history, Montana history, environmental history. So UM, 1271 01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,120 Speaker 1: just sort of seeing what's out there and meeting people. 1272 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,000 Speaker 1: And then there are a lot of people from um 1273 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:18,240 Speaker 1: various presses that are there um to look for book 1274 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,720 Speaker 1: manuscripts or to meet people so it's also sort of 1275 01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:22,800 Speaker 1: there's that element to it as well. You can do 1276 01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,320 Speaker 1: some hardcore hob novin. Yeah, pretty much. I got all 1277 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,519 Speaker 1: the business cards lined up. You know, it's funny about 1278 01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,800 Speaker 1: trapping regulations. The spring and April, we're going uh to 1279 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:36,439 Speaker 1: Wyoming for some spring beaver action, and um, there's a 1280 01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:43,680 Speaker 1: reciprocity thing between the states with trapping. For instance, Montana, Um, 1281 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,880 Speaker 1: you can't trap any a nonresident cannot get a trapping 1282 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:52,360 Speaker 1: license in Montana to trap beaver, for instance, like fur bears. Okay, 1283 01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:56,880 Speaker 1: you can go trap coyotes, bobcats like that, various predators, 1284 01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:58,840 Speaker 1: but you can't trap what they have listed as fur 1285 01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:04,360 Speaker 1: bears like muskrat manc river outer beaver. Um. So what 1286 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:05,840 Speaker 1: a lot of states will do, Like let's say you're 1287 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,240 Speaker 1: in a state that is open and nonresident travers, but 1288 01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,559 Speaker 1: since Montana doesn't allow nonresidents, they won't let someone from 1289 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,440 Speaker 1: Montana buy a license in their state. Okay, So Wyoming 1290 01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,080 Speaker 1: is open to any nonresident coming from a state that's 1291 01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:28,240 Speaker 1: in turn open to Wyoming. Even though Washington has like 1292 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:34,680 Speaker 1: some draconian trapping regularly trappings basically illegal because they've outlawed 1293 01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:39,200 Speaker 1: all the tools of the trade without actually outlawing the practice. 1294 01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:43,639 Speaker 1: So you can't use connter, berries, can't use footholds. However, 1295 01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:47,719 Speaker 1: it's legal, right, so you look like which made the traffic? 1296 01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,040 Speaker 1: Like the trapping regulations here are kind of ridiculous because 1297 01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 1: like everything's like open for a really long time, you know, 1298 01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,240 Speaker 1: and they only like they like barely update the regulations. 1299 01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,160 Speaker 1: But regulations are basically go ahead. Bro, just can't use 1300 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,599 Speaker 1: trapped because you're not gonna like you can use get 1301 01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,599 Speaker 1: live traps, you know what I mean. So I'm filling 1302 01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,840 Speaker 1: out this form for Whoming getting my Wyoming you know, 1303 01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,280 Speaker 1: beaver trapping license, and I'm filling out this form. It's 1304 01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:16,680 Speaker 1: like their eyes like, um, are you allowed to trap X? 1305 01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:21,559 Speaker 1: It's like yes, um are non residents allowed to trap X? 1306 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:23,800 Speaker 1: And it's because all like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes 1307 01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:25,519 Speaker 1: says yes. And I almost wanted to put a note 1308 01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,600 Speaker 1: on there being like well, actually no, but let's just 1309 01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,360 Speaker 1: say yes theoretical. And I sent it in and I 1310 01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:35,679 Speaker 1: got my I was accepted and got my Wyoming, got 1311 01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,320 Speaker 1: my Wyoming for harvester. You're gonna get a letter back 1312 01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 1: from Wyoming it says you can come hunt, but you 1313 01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,559 Speaker 1: can't use. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, bro, yeah welcome, come 1314 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,599 Speaker 1: get some beaver, but just keep mind you can't use 1315 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,360 Speaker 1: at the tools that go with trapping. I never thought 1316 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,200 Speaker 1: of the impact on Indigenous people, and people tend to 1317 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,640 Speaker 1: be more sensitive that than they do. Um, you know 1318 01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,479 Speaker 1: other people who have traditional use practices, And yeah, I 1319 01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:04,639 Speaker 1: don't know. Um, I really don't have any um specific 1320 01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,120 Speaker 1: or detailed knowledge about how it works. And you haven't 1321 01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,280 Speaker 1: gone to the conference Yeteah, well, hopefully I'll be able 1322 01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:10,679 Speaker 1: to tell you a bit more in a couple of days. 1323 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,479 Speaker 1: But yeah, the Canadian side of things is something of 1324 01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:19,160 Speaker 1: a mystery to man more knowledge of UH treaty rights 1325 01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,880 Speaker 1: and subsistence rights in the US. I'll tell you one 1326 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:23,800 Speaker 1: interesting about a lot of areas in Canada's you have 1327 01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:27,200 Speaker 1: a registered line, like you have a line, the same 1328 01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,519 Speaker 1: way you might have a commercial fishing license, you know, 1329 01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:31,880 Speaker 1: and you like sell Like you have a registered line, 1330 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,679 Speaker 1: you can sell that line, you know, when ice trap 1331 01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:39,080 Speaker 1: is just like it's just honor system. Like you might 1332 01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,200 Speaker 1: be like, yeah, so and Soul works that area, and 1333 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:43,760 Speaker 1: nothing was actually preventing you from going out there. It 1334 01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,000 Speaker 1: would just be like an honor system that you did 1335 01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,320 Speaker 1: or did not go along with. But there yeah, man, 1336 01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,760 Speaker 1: you get like a registered line. You buy a line 1337 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,720 Speaker 1: off someone I used to shopper, like, I used to 1338 01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,639 Speaker 1: sit there with magazines, like in the back of Trapper 1339 01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,680 Speaker 1: and Predator Caller magazine when I was a kid. You 1340 01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,320 Speaker 1: look in the classifies and be people selling trap lines, 1341 01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:02,880 Speaker 1: you know, and um, just one go for it back. 1342 01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:04,840 Speaker 1: I can't remember, but I remember like I would waste 1343 01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,719 Speaker 1: some of these guys time by like writing and asking 1344 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,320 Speaker 1: for more information and they'd send these just maps, you know, 1345 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:16,360 Speaker 1: basically a map just like never ending swamp. Yeah, hundreds 1346 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,360 Speaker 1: of miles. You know. You buy a trapline, Yeah, always 1347 01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:23,879 Speaker 1: thought it's fine, go for it. So concluding thoughts, Johnnie, 1348 01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:30,719 Speaker 1: oh boy, can you go first? What I mean, what's 1349 01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:32,360 Speaker 1: up with the hunt eat? And we haven't talked about 1350 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,080 Speaker 1: hunting eating a long time? We haven't. I meant to 1351 01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,680 Speaker 1: wear my T shirt today he's got one on all 1352 01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:39,720 Speaker 1: this kid wears his Hunt Teachers. I can't tell it's 1353 01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:41,360 Speaker 1: because he loves hunt eat or if he just has 1354 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,720 Speaker 1: a lot of T shirts trying to get the word both. 1355 01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:49,240 Speaker 1: And if you have to wear your own products, um yeah, 1356 01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,880 Speaker 1: we gotta, we have we have a Turkey shirt that 1357 01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,880 Speaker 1: the thing goes live today. So but not state affiliated. No, 1358 01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,080 Speaker 1: is this your first non state affiliated shirt? No, we've 1359 01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,400 Speaker 1: got the first one was not like four or five. 1360 01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,280 Speaker 1: Now I've been told to pass along word that we 1361 01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,720 Speaker 1: need an Ohio shirt. So Oregon, do you have an 1362 01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:10,920 Speaker 1: Oregon shirt? No? He won't make it till you hear 1363 01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:15,840 Speaker 1: from ten people. I got ten people. Like Idaho is 1364 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,920 Speaker 1: like it gonna be at the printers in the next 1365 01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:20,840 Speaker 1: week or so. By the time anybody hears this, it 1366 01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:25,000 Speaker 1: will probably be live already. But Washington, Idaho, Yeah, there, 1367 01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,160 Speaker 1: they should be live by the time this podcast here. 1368 01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,960 Speaker 1: So how many states by the time the podcast there? 1369 01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,599 Speaker 1: Oh boy, maybe ten? Close to it? A long way 1370 01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,479 Speaker 1: to go, Yeah, we do. But you know what, you're 1371 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,800 Speaker 1: adding t shirts faster than we added states as a country. 1372 01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,360 Speaker 1: You'll catch up eventually. Yeah, we haven't had. We haven't 1373 01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,120 Speaker 1: added once in the fifties. So all right, do you 1374 01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:50,760 Speaker 1: do you think you wind up doing Hawaiians? We're going 1375 01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,280 Speaker 1: hunt in Hawaii this year. It would be a good one. 1376 01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,439 Speaker 1: It's like a destination hunt spot. We finally, like a 1377 01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:59,719 Speaker 1: lot of people buy Montana in Alaska, you know, because 1378 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:04,920 Speaker 1: it's like a dream hunt dream. My brother there Day 1379 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,800 Speaker 1: was wearing a Hunt deep Montana on where he got 1380 01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,280 Speaker 1: I didn't give it to him. I know where he 1381 01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:13,280 Speaker 1: got it. Oh dude, I get him to He said, 1382 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:18,800 Speaker 1: sweet my two new favorite T shirts. Um, so that's 1383 01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,320 Speaker 1: your conclusion, No it's not. That's my concluding thought. What's yours? 1384 01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,639 Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm gonna bring him back around to lead 1385 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,519 Speaker 1: and just like I like I said, I'm I'm I 1386 01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:29,840 Speaker 1: feel like the reason we're having a discussion because there's 1387 01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,400 Speaker 1: just not enough research out there. So I'm hoping that 1388 01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:34,720 Speaker 1: now it's kind of coming back and a lot of 1389 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,000 Speaker 1: people are talking about it again, someone's gonna get after 1390 01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:41,120 Speaker 1: and do some more research because come out of since 1391 01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:42,640 Speaker 1: you're bringing it back up, I'll bring it back up. 1392 01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:46,000 Speaker 1: I think we haven't brought up in just like efficacy, right, 1393 01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:50,439 Speaker 1: it's some things just work real well. It works real well. 1394 01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,120 Speaker 1: So it's it's like, I'm trying to weigh that out 1395 01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,320 Speaker 1: as well. What is the like when you come in 1396 01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,400 Speaker 1: with what is it? Gonna say what is it? What 1397 01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,600 Speaker 1: would it do to wound loss? You know, are you 1398 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,519 Speaker 1: gonna have a lot more wound loss as you dictate 1399 01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:11,280 Speaker 1: less effective ammunitions to people. So I've I've found the 1400 01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:14,720 Speaker 1: statistics on this, at least for someone from US Fish 1401 01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:19,200 Speaker 1: and Wildlife basically had said that once they instituted the ban, 1402 01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:23,479 Speaker 1: there was a spike in self reported wound loss and 1403 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,559 Speaker 1: then over time it dropped back down and now it's 1404 01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:31,519 Speaker 1: below what it was prior because people adapted. They weren't 1405 01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,040 Speaker 1: taking six, they weren't taking six. But I don't believe. 1406 01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:39,400 Speaker 1: Here's the thing that gets into a whole other issue 1407 01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:44,960 Speaker 1: of sciences. It's very I think that self reported very hard. 1408 01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:48,599 Speaker 1: Go around, do a little informal survey and ask all 1409 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,840 Speaker 1: your bowl hunting buddies what they think wound what what's 1410 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,719 Speaker 1: your wound loss rate? Yeah, you'll never get an honest answer. 1411 01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:01,960 Speaker 1: You'll never get an honest answer. Um. I think that 1412 01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:06,160 Speaker 1: when guys fill that out, it's like, dude, I don't 1413 01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,360 Speaker 1: believe the thing. I mean, I'm sure some people probably 1414 01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:12,519 Speaker 1: do it, but people don't like to self incriminate. Now 1415 01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,320 Speaker 1: that it against love. I think people are like I 1416 01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:16,599 Speaker 1: think most people are full of it when it comes 1417 01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:18,559 Speaker 1: to the wound loss rates when they report it. Right, 1418 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,840 Speaker 1: So the reporting might not be representative of reality, but 1419 01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,400 Speaker 1: the change in reporting over time does give you some 1420 01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:28,960 Speaker 1: sense at least of the bigger pictures. Everybody's probably not 1421 01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:32,160 Speaker 1: reporting totally honestly, but the way they do report, yeah, yeah, 1422 01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,479 Speaker 1: they I saw that. I read that saything they saw 1423 01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,559 Speaker 1: a spike and it wasn't a horrible spike. They saw 1424 01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:43,840 Speaker 1: from near or someth to something like whatever the numbers were. 1425 01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,920 Speaker 1: And then within a few years it dropped back down 1426 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,559 Speaker 1: to twenty, and then shortly after that it even dipped 1427 01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:55,040 Speaker 1: below sort of pre band numbers. So yeah, as people 1428 01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:58,080 Speaker 1: adjusted well, and for waterfowl, if you want the efficacy, 1429 01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:00,800 Speaker 1: you can shoot the business and tongsen costs quite a 1430 01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,000 Speaker 1: bit more. And I wonder why we haven't seen a 1431 01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:07,000 Speaker 1: tungsten or business cord hunting bullet yet. I don't know. 1432 01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:08,840 Speaker 1: There's some reason for it or not. It would be good. 1433 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:10,760 Speaker 1: We gotta get a metall or just out here. I'm 1434 01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:14,160 Speaker 1: going that way with fishing tackle, you know what I mean? 1435 01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,040 Speaker 1: Non lead teeth too bad, man, Like I can bite 1436 01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,040 Speaker 1: lead sinkers all day long. Man, You give me a 1437 01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,280 Speaker 1: non toxic sinker and I chew into that thing. Dude, 1438 01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,080 Speaker 1: that hurts. Yeah, I'm I'm thread through, you know, thread 1439 01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,200 Speaker 1: the thought bullet weights. Wh I'm talking to tungsten. For 1440 01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:28,679 Speaker 1: the most part, I don't know about trying to bite 1441 01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,880 Speaker 1: down on tungsten. Wait, that's ill advised, I think. And 1442 01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:36,000 Speaker 1: then steel shot shatters your teeth. We used I think 1443 01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,720 Speaker 1: it was tin. I want to say, five fish in 1444 01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,920 Speaker 1: those green egg ones and uh, I actually liked those 1445 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,360 Speaker 1: because they were so reusable. I feel like they I 1446 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:48,080 Speaker 1: just got more use out of than the lead. They're 1447 01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:51,640 Speaker 1: less malleable, which I think just yeah, just gave them 1448 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:54,920 Speaker 1: longer life. They held their form better. Man, You're sitting 1449 01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:57,839 Speaker 1: about five ft from my little stash of non toxic 1450 01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:01,080 Speaker 1: sinkers back there, and I'll have to say, I was 1451 01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:02,519 Speaker 1: just fishing the other day and that's not the one 1452 01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:07,680 Speaker 1: I grabbed. Grabbed the old stylers a lot less expensive 1453 01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,840 Speaker 1: to the old style I'd like to keep in my mouth. Um, 1454 01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:12,680 Speaker 1: but you know what I find O. It's like, uh, 1455 01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:15,760 Speaker 1: I do catch myself Like I don't like my kid 1456 01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,360 Speaker 1: messing with them. M I don't like him. No, I 1457 01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:21,040 Speaker 1: don't like him pinching him down because the teeth Like 1458 01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,479 Speaker 1: I wore a groom into my teeth cutting monofilment, and 1459 01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:30,240 Speaker 1: I probably like cap my tooth with lead. But yeah, man, 1460 01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:33,839 Speaker 1: and I started. Then I switched the floral carbon and 1461 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,320 Speaker 1: it's like, you're like, dude, that's even harder. You gotta 1462 01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:40,519 Speaker 1: use a canine teeth for the floral carbon teeth. Oh yeah, Matt, 1463 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:45,439 Speaker 1: what are your concluding thoughts? Ah? Well, uh, it got stolen. 1464 01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:47,000 Speaker 1: I was gonna bring it back to the to the 1465 01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:51,360 Speaker 1: lead versus copper issue. I suppose if I had a 1466 01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:55,520 Speaker 1: concluding thought on that, I just hope that whatever whatever 1467 01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,760 Speaker 1: decisions are made come from the sound science and a 1468 01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:03,759 Speaker 1: good a good place, a good place of thoughtfulness and 1469 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:06,920 Speaker 1: and in the best interests of conservation, and not political 1470 01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:11,840 Speaker 1: party line. Yeah, not like I don't like guns, right, 1471 01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:15,280 Speaker 1: therefore I think the lead is toxic, right, and I 1472 01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:20,559 Speaker 1: like conversely, I like guns, therefore lead can do no harm. Right. Yeah. Yeah, 1473 01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,960 Speaker 1: I don't think you should come from that either. Randall's 1474 01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:29,559 Speaker 1: your concluding thought? Oh, man, I don't know. You're excited 1475 01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,120 Speaker 1: about this. I'm excited about this conference. I'm intrigued by 1476 01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,280 Speaker 1: I want to meet someone who identifies as a self 1477 01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:41,519 Speaker 1: professed sport culinary enthusiast. I like that. I'm still too 1478 01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:45,360 Speaker 1: and on that one, but I don't know sport cutlery. 1479 01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, what did I say culinary because I 1480 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:52,000 Speaker 1: was saying that's me, dude, I'm a sport culinary here 1481 01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:56,679 Speaker 1: with you, a sport culory enthusiast. Um. Yeah, I don't 1482 01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:00,320 Speaker 1: know when it comes to lead and steel. Uh, I 1483 01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,280 Speaker 1: don't really hit enough birds for it to make a difference. 1484 01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:08,519 Speaker 1: So we're just talking about all my all my empty 1485 01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,679 Speaker 1: honeyholes before we got started here at them. Yeah, we're 1486 01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:15,240 Speaker 1: talking about the fear of losing your GPS, and Randal 1487 01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:20,040 Speaker 1: just saying he'll switch GPS even with anybody because he 1488 01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 1: said it can't be any worse than what he's got. 1489 01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,559 Speaker 1: I'd like to point out that I started shooting copper 1490 01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:30,040 Speaker 1: well before I ever thought about lead poisoning in my gaming, 1491 01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,760 Speaker 1: because I saw the efficacy in the field as a 1492 01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,960 Speaker 1: guide and I'd be like, what, you know what someone 1493 01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:39,040 Speaker 1: would recover a bullet. I'm like, I've never seen that thing? 1494 01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,519 Speaker 1: What is that? Oh, it's the you know Barnes, you 1495 01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:43,880 Speaker 1: know triple shot. I was like, Wow, that thing hit 1496 01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:46,080 Speaker 1: that elk in just Jordan And I know a lot 1497 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,600 Speaker 1: of that has to do with shot places. More of 1498 01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:50,519 Speaker 1: that has to do shot placement than the bullet itself. 1499 01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:52,800 Speaker 1: But anyways, that's kind of what got me shooting those 1500 01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,200 Speaker 1: coppers and went until later until you know someone's like, 1501 01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,160 Speaker 1: oh you also get that out of benefit of you know, 1502 01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,200 Speaker 1: that's what I want. That's the norther thing that I 1503 01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:02,360 Speaker 1: talked about it that came up in this this kind 1504 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:07,479 Speaker 1: this uh conversation, was I said, in some ways, I 1505 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,920 Speaker 1: feel like it's gonna wind up being beyond the point, 1506 01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,639 Speaker 1: not with lead shot for for upland birds and stuff. 1507 01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:14,080 Speaker 1: I was like, in some ways, I think it's the 1508 01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:18,840 Speaker 1: discussion about toxicity is beside the point because if you 1509 01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:24,320 Speaker 1: look at reloaders, like if you look at the avant garde, 1510 01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:29,000 Speaker 1: the cutting edge, there's just a very I feel like 1511 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:34,360 Speaker 1: there's a very definite shift going towards monolithic bullets, don't 1512 01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:35,680 Speaker 1: you think. I mean, it's just like more and more 1513 01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,840 Speaker 1: people who don't give a ship about the lead issue 1514 01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:44,960 Speaker 1: are shooting solid You don't feel that that's true. I 1515 01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:48,559 Speaker 1: don't know. I wouldn't say you know better than me. 1516 01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:50,160 Speaker 1: If I'm wrong, tell me, because I feel like you 1517 01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:51,760 Speaker 1: know more about that stuff than I do. And I 1518 01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,120 Speaker 1: think a lot of people, like especially I think out 1519 01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,160 Speaker 1: of all the monolithics. They like the barns because it's 1520 01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,120 Speaker 1: known to being accurate bullet. You know, a lot of 1521 01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,360 Speaker 1: people just get good loads out of it that they 1522 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,280 Speaker 1: are accurate loads. But I feel like it's especially with 1523 01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:06,599 Speaker 1: the long range crowd most of them, I don't think 1524 01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:09,679 Speaker 1: they are shooting rats. Yeah, I think they're shooting lead core. 1525 01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,760 Speaker 1: Especially with long range, the bullet a lot of times 1526 01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,320 Speaker 1: upon the impact is moving slower, and so they need 1527 01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:18,240 Speaker 1: a bullet that fragments or you know, pedals more at 1528 01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:21,760 Speaker 1: a lower velocity, which the monolithics don't do. That's what 1529 01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:24,519 Speaker 1: That's what I that was when I made the switch 1530 01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:32,840 Speaker 1: back to Jack and his bullets was, um, I shot 1531 01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:38,800 Speaker 1: a deer with It was pretty far out. It was, 1532 01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:41,599 Speaker 1: I feel like, if I remember, it was four hundred 1533 01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:46,160 Speaker 1: sixty yards a long ways. I shot a deer and 1534 01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:53,519 Speaker 1: he still continued running around, running does and I'm like, 1535 01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't understand which this happened. And then eventually he 1536 01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:58,000 Speaker 1: got woozy and fell over. And when I went up 1537 01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:03,759 Speaker 1: to him, it looked like someone had taken a dowel 1538 01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:09,519 Speaker 1: and punched the dowel through his body field point. Yeah, 1539 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,080 Speaker 1: it looked like, yeah, like you took a field point 1540 01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:13,360 Speaker 1: arrow and just stuck it into him. No, it's definitely 1541 01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,720 Speaker 1: number one complaint. It didn't do It was like he 1542 01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:21,479 Speaker 1: didn't even know what happened. Yeah, definitely through the lungs 1543 01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:26,559 Speaker 1: and eventually faded out. And then people like and that's 1544 01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:28,280 Speaker 1: what I was like, and it's going back and something 1545 01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:32,839 Speaker 1: I know and trust. Then people just said shooting his shoulder. 1546 01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,599 Speaker 1: Then you get him in the high shoulder, so okay, 1547 01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,200 Speaker 1: So then I gotta blow the shoulders out of him 1548 01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:44,479 Speaker 1: and ruin all kinds of meat. What if you miss? Yeah, 1549 01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:49,080 Speaker 1: everybody's always preparing for the guys like I hit him 1550 01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:50,559 Speaker 1: right in the head. It's like, is that right? Right? 1551 01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,840 Speaker 1: What what mean you wanted? You gotta prepare for. Man, 1552 01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:56,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of variables, right, and you gotta prepare 1553 01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,120 Speaker 1: for the variables. What happens if your shots not exactly 1554 01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:04,559 Speaker 1: high shoulder? What if it's a little far back? Yeah, 1555 01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I like, you know, like the trophy bonded, the bear 1556 01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:13,559 Speaker 1: clot like just a ya, they all they all have 1557 01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:17,680 Speaker 1: failure rate, so you know, yeah, I mean it's you 1558 01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,759 Speaker 1: can say that those bullets, you know, it's super close range. 1559 01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,280 Speaker 1: You know, they might fragment too much. If you do 1560 01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:24,880 Speaker 1: hit the bone and then they don't make it into 1561 01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:28,280 Speaker 1: the vitals, especially some of the long range stuff that 1562 01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,960 Speaker 1: is made to be very you know, frangible. You know, 1563 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:32,760 Speaker 1: you do hit a big bone right off the bat 1564 01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,400 Speaker 1: at fifty yards, that bullet just blows up and it 1565 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:39,000 Speaker 1: might not never even make it into the cavity. So 1566 01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:46,040 Speaker 1: all right, that's it, right, that's all I got to say. 1567 01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:48,840 Speaker 1: You got a concluding thought, Randall. He gave it. Yeah, 1568 01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:50,439 Speaker 1: but I don't remember. It wasn't like I wasn't blown 1569 01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:52,719 Speaker 1: away by it. I can't remember what it was. What 1570 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:54,800 Speaker 1: was it? Pretty high standard? He was saying he would 1571 01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:58,760 Speaker 1: he would trade his GPS to anybody out there. Oh yeah, 1572 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,240 Speaker 1: And he's saying, and I remember, now, Um, you'd have 1573 01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:06,360 Speaker 1: a good cluting thought sport culinary. He wants to be 1574 01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,880 Speaker 1: a sport coulory enthusiast. But you didn't have a clearly 1575 01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:13,479 Speaker 1: thought where that that you reiterated your disdain for bias. 1576 01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:20,680 Speaker 1: I did, yeah, in a in an eloquent way. I 1577 01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:23,160 Speaker 1: made a point about someone hate and lead because they 1578 01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:27,439 Speaker 1: hate guns, and you said, but it's just love lead, 1579 01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:31,800 Speaker 1: it's just because you love guns can do no harm. Yeah, 1580 01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:35,200 Speaker 1: all right, thanks for tuning in