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Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with some

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Speaker 1: peak ridiculous history. Back in twenty nineteen, we learned the

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Speaker 1: story of someone called Susannah, Caroline, Matilda.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do love three first names. It's always a

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Speaker 2: good time. You may see in the title of this episode.

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Speaker 2: She was considered a colonial grifter, princess, an elite grifter.

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Speaker 2: She got up to all kinds of shenanigans, narrowly escaping

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Speaker 2: death after stealing from the queen. Boy oh boy, she

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Speaker 2: really lived on the edge. And what I love about

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Speaker 2: this one is we are featuring none other than a

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Speaker 2: friend of the show, a brother, a compatriot in podcast

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Speaker 2: Arms named Christopher Hasiotis. This is the guy that we

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Speaker 2: shout out at the end of every episode, so please

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Speaker 2: please check.

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Speaker 1: In, folks. He is way smarter than either of us.

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Speaker 2: And he's not only here in spirit and this one

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Speaker 2: he's here corporeally, and I am presiding over the proceedings spiritually,

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Speaker 2: but not there corporeally. I'm replaced in this episode by

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Speaker 2: our previous and long suffering producer, Casey Pegram for this

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Speaker 2: really cool conversation that I'm bummed that I missed, but

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Speaker 2: y'all are going to benefit from him.

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Speaker 1: Let's roll the tape. Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show,

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for tuning in. Casey,

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Speaker 1: can we get a little sort of you know, genericly

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Speaker 1: Colonial times US in the background? Perfect, We've got a

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Speaker 1: pitch for you today, folks. Have you ever thought about

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Speaker 1: changing your identity? Have you ever felt that you should

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Speaker 1: break free of the bonds of your previous life and

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Speaker 1: become someone else entirely? That's a question we're addressing today.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben, my co host nol Is off on adventures. However,

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Speaker 1: we have a very special episode for you today with

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Speaker 1: a very special guest, our returning friend of the show.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for classing up the place yet again, Christopher Hasiotis.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me. Guys, I can't promise I

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Speaker 3: can fill Nole's chair, but I will do my darnedest.

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Speaker 1: I am incredibly excited about this. We didn't we We've

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Speaker 1: teased your return for some time over the previous epade.

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Speaker 3: Yes, set expectations, Thank you very high.

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Speaker 1: You know, we asked people to write it in immediately

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Speaker 1: as soon as they heard your voice. But we didn't

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Speaker 1: tell We didn't tell everyone that you would be coming

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Speaker 1: on for this and maybe some other episodes in the future.

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Speaker 1: But we're quite excited to have you. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I know you've been traveling a lot recently, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, We've got a lot of really great new shows

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Speaker 3: in the works for the iHeart Podcast Network. So listeners,

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Speaker 3: if you big ridiculous history, keep your eyes on your

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Speaker 3: screens and your ears on. I don't know what, Ben,

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Speaker 3: you're better at promoting than I am. What do you say?

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Speaker 1: Oh, ears to the wind, Keep.

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Speaker 3: Your ears to the wind of the podcast realm. There

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Speaker 3: you go.

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Speaker 1: Oh, keep your eyes peeled, your ears to the ground right.

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Speaker 3: Right, and fingertips at the mercy of your soul.

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Speaker 1: There we go.

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Speaker 3: I like the gravitas the Basically, I just want everyone

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Speaker 3: listening to scroll through their iPhones or their Samsungs or

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Speaker 3: what have you and subscribe to whatever strikes your fancy.

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Speaker 3: This is just a long, ridiculous way of saying, yes, Ben,

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Speaker 3: thank you for having me on. I have been up

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Speaker 3: to a lot lately. We're putting together a great slate

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Speaker 3: of new shows coming to the network. All centered around

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Speaker 3: food and travel and stories of humanity and how all

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Speaker 3: those things relate to our lives. I will have a

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Speaker 3: lot more information for you and the listeners of Ridiculous History,

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Speaker 3: probably in the next month or two, about some really

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Speaker 3: really great shows that they can watch out for and

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Speaker 3: hopefully subscribe to and really really dig So in the meantime,

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Speaker 3: I've just got time to sit here in a booth

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Speaker 3: with you, which makes me super joyful.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you. Also, of course, we are not diving

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Speaker 1: into Ridiculous History alone. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer, Casey Pegram give it up for them, folks.

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Speaker 1: Casey aar, why I stop like you are also going

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Speaker 1: to put it in a plaus Q. But Christopher has

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Speaker 1: just given us a delight full, tantalizing, I would say,

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Speaker 1: exclusive teaser, because this is the first time we've talked

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Speaker 1: about some of these projects on air.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, on this show. Yeah, that's right, And so.

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Speaker 1: We'll say no more. You pay for the whole seat,

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Speaker 1: you only need the edge. Check back in in a

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Speaker 1: month or so and we may have we may have

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Speaker 1: some new news for you. However, Christopher, you noticed at

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Speaker 1: the very top of the show we set up the

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Speaker 1: concept of changing one's identity. Have you ever have you

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Speaker 1: ever thought about this?

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Speaker 3: I remember when I was in college, I was at

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Speaker 3: a rock and roll club and someone had taped on

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Speaker 3: the wall of one of the restrooms, you know, over

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Speaker 3: all the terrible band stickers and the graffiti and the

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Speaker 3: cigarette burns and the scars scratched into the wall, someone

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Speaker 3: had taped something that said, reinvent yourself, start a new life.

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Speaker 3: And it was basically not quite an anarchist cookbook, but

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Speaker 3: directions on how to access a manifests on how to

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Speaker 3: essentially fake your own death and seize a new identity.

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Speaker 3: And there was just some sort of narrative, well, who

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Speaker 3: is going around spreading these pamphlets around rock and roll

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Speaker 3: clubs in the late nineties and early two thousands. So

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Speaker 3: I don't know how many how many people out there

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Speaker 3: are living under assumed identities. You know, we can't all

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Speaker 3: be Don Draper. But if there is anywhere that's prime

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Speaker 3: for reinvention and developing a new persona and reinventing yourself,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think the United States of America is like,

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Speaker 3: that's one of the HotBits for it, right, That's one

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Speaker 3: of the things that we do. We burst forth from

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Speaker 3: the shackles of our past. We reinvent ourselves. We set

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Speaker 3: aside our family histories, we invent new family histories. We

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Speaker 3: just present ourselves as we hope to be. And a

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Speaker 3: lot of times people just kind of buy it. That's true,

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Speaker 3: that's so true. The word of the day I'll introduce

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Speaker 3: here is a pseudo side. That's the technical term for

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Speaker 3: faking one's death or intempting to do so. And today's

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Speaker 3: episode hinges on, yeah, just as you said it, Man,

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Speaker 3: hinges on a fundamentally American idea. We have a somewhat

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Speaker 3: romanticized or idealized concept of this, of this purposeful reinvention,

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Speaker 3: this resurrection, rebirth by design, but we don't often talk

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Speaker 3: about the real life cases, you know, in which these

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Speaker 3: sorts of tropes occur. And today's story is about a

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Speaker 3: person who did just that, who reinvented herself. And that's

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Speaker 3: the sort of thing that normally is it's praised right

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Speaker 3: to come from humble beginnings to set yourself up to

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Speaker 3: a life that's that's grander than anything you could have

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Speaker 3: imagined or that your parents could have set out for you. Normally,

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Speaker 3: it's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Is that the case here, Well, let's dig into it.

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Speaker 1: How about that. Let's dig into it and then maybe

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Speaker 1: at the end you and I can make the call,

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Speaker 1: and fellow listeners please chime in and let us know

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Speaker 1: what your take is after you hear the entirety of

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Speaker 1: the story, because it's important to hear the entirety of

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Speaker 1: this particular tale. Our story today begins with a woman

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Speaker 1: named Sarah Wilson. She was born in a Staffordshchild village

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Speaker 1: in seventeen fifty four, and she was i'd be relatively

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Speaker 1: well off, not super destitute, because her father was a

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Speaker 1: professional and he's a bailiff. However, they did have money problems,

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Speaker 1: and the money problems were such that at the age

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Speaker 1: of sixteen, Sarah is sent away from home and she

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Speaker 1: is sent to London to look for employment. This was

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Speaker 1: not terribly uncommon during this time.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not. She came from humble beginnings. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's this West Midlands region of England. It's not super industrialized.

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Speaker 3: She's looking for more opportunity, like many people do. She

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Speaker 3: heads to the big city. There are some suggestions maybe

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Speaker 3: she wasn't just looking for money, Maybe she was off

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Speaker 3: to seek her own ideas of fortune and fame and

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Speaker 3: kind of build a name for herself, whatever that might mean.

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Speaker 3: But she does head to London and within a few

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Speaker 3: weeks she finds work. She's working as a maid for

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Speaker 3: a woman named Caroline Vernon, and Caroline Vernon was a

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Speaker 3: lady in waiting for Queen Charlotte, now Queen Charlotte, Queen

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Speaker 3: of England, but born in Germany. Spoke German German accent

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Speaker 3: when she's speaking English. You know, this is the sort

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Speaker 3: of thing where, looking back three four or five hundred

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Speaker 3: years from especially the vantage point of the United States,

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Speaker 3: where royalty is a bit of a novelty, we don't

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Speaker 3: realize how little national borders and family lineage crisscrossed, and

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Speaker 3: one may or may not have informed the other. So

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Speaker 3: you have German nationals who are actually the King of England.

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Speaker 3: You have people from Austria ruling Greece. You have the

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Speaker 3: mix of whatever blend of Austro Hungarian Habsburg that situation

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Speaker 3: ruling over bits and pieces of Europe. So it's sort

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Speaker 3: of like a dual layer in Europe. And it's I

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Speaker 3: always like to think that the movies just get it wrong,

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Speaker 3: because everyone's speaking with the same accent, whether it's an

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Speaker 3: accurate accent or not, it's generally somewhat uniform, whereas it's

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Speaker 3: maybe not the case then. But I've fallen down a

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Speaker 3: rabbit hole just talking about historical specificity.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great point, though, and you've picked

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Speaker 1: the right show to do this on, because it may

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Speaker 1: be difficult for many of us in twenty nineteen, in

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Speaker 1: these our modern days, to understand that it was normal

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Speaker 1: for the rulers of a country to be completely foreign

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Speaker 1: in most what we would consider completely foreign in today's terms,

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Speaker 1: and quote unquote qualified for their position entirely due to

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Speaker 1: their ancestry. And that's that's what happens. There's a feedback

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Speaker 1: loop around this time and the centuries preceding it, wherein

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Speaker 1: you know, if you are a member of a powerful family,

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Speaker 1: you want your children to only marry members of other

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Speaker 1: powerful families, and so things get mixed. I'm not making

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Speaker 1: an inbreeding joke. I'm just saying that's how the thrones

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Speaker 1: end up being collected and consolidated and passed around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And I will say that this

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Speaker 3: discussion of languages and accents does come into play a

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Speaker 3: little later on Sarah Wilson's story.

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Speaker 1: Yes, nice foreshadowing. Yes, okay, So Sarah quickly ingratiates herself.

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Speaker 1: She is a people person, a slick talker. At this point,

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Speaker 1: she is playing the role of the perfect maid as

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Speaker 1: far as Lady and Waiting Caroline Vernon is concerned.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's working at the Queen's House, which if

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Speaker 3: you or I were to go to London, or any

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Speaker 3: of the listeners wanted to go to London and go

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Speaker 3: check out the Queen's House, you can't find it because

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Speaker 3: what's now there is Buckingham Palace, a little larger, a

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Speaker 3: little more grand, but that original Queen's House. But that's

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Speaker 3: the region of London we're talking about. It's still, you know,

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Speaker 3: the seat of royal power.

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Speaker 1: Right, quite prestigious. Yes, and at the Queen's House where

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Speaker 1: as you said, Christopher, Buckingham Palace now stands. Sarah frequently

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Speaker 1: saw the actual Queen, the wife of King George the Third,

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Speaker 1: and she quickly, in addition to ingratiating herself with the

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Speaker 1: upper crust of this community, she also familiarized herself intimately

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Speaker 1: with the scuttle but the gossip, the things that only

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Speaker 1: the maids and the butlers and what Downton Abbey would

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Speaker 1: call the downstairs people were aware of and this got

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Speaker 1: to her. You know what I mean, because we know

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Speaker 1: how human psychology works. It has not changed for many

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Speaker 1: thousands of years. Happiness is often defining comparative terms. So

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Speaker 1: she is, she's smart, she's quick witted. She has escaped

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Speaker 1: her small town and done more than many people in

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Speaker 1: her town would have done. But then she looks around

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Speaker 1: and she sees, you know, this opulence and these lives

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Speaker 1: of leisure, and she says, I'm paraphrasing here, why not

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Speaker 1: me where they got that?

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Speaker 3: I ain't got That's right? Yeah, I want to get

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Speaker 3: me some of that.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: That's that's a quote, that's you exactly. I think that

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Speaker 3: was on some plaque somewhere in some dusty tone. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's the thing. So Sarah Wilson being around royalty, knowing royalty,

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Speaker 3: knowing the comings and goings of royalty, that wasn't enough

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Speaker 3: for her. She wanted to get a piece of the action,

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Speaker 3: have a slice for herself, carve out a little nook

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Speaker 3: in that world. Or maybe she just wanted the things

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Speaker 3: that she knew she would never ever have on her

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Speaker 3: own and I mean, this is such a stratified culture

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Speaker 3: at the time. It still is in many ways. But

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Speaker 3: when you come from completely humble backgrounds and you are

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Speaker 3: spending your day around someone who is wearing let's say,

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Speaker 3: a ring or a crown, or today a pair of sneakers,

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Speaker 3: or you know, you drive a car that is essentially

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Speaker 3: worth what your family could make in a decade, and

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Speaker 3: this is just a trinket to this person. That wealth

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Speaker 3: imbalance creates tension, and most people in the world can

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Speaker 3: handle that. Some people can't. And Sarah Wilson was one

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Speaker 3: of those people. So there was a night when she

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Speaker 3: was by herself in the Queen's room. She snuck into

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Speaker 3: a closet, breaks into this cabinet and she takes some jewelry,

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Speaker 3: some dresses, a ring, and a little miniature portrait of

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Speaker 3: Queen Charlotte. So it's like, you know, we don't have

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Speaker 3: an image of what it looks like, but I imagine

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Speaker 3: it's one of those little sort of cameo portraits. So

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Speaker 3: maybe a little silhouette, just something that would be a keepsake,

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Speaker 3: something that a family member of Queen Charlotte would keep

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Speaker 3: and would you know, would refer to to lovingly remember

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Speaker 3: their relative. So she takes all these things for herself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she thinks it's no big deal. No one's

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Speaker 1: going to find out for Pete's sake. This is the

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Speaker 1: Queen of England.

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Speaker 3: Right, She's got countless dresses, countless rings, dads of Julia. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But the thing is they were not countless. They were counted,

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Speaker 3: accounted frequently. As is the case with sometimes people of

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Speaker 3: immense wealth, they also are immensely focused on the things

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Speaker 3: that make them wealthy. And so Queen Charlotte was no different.

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Speaker 3: She kept fastidious inventory of her inventory. She knew what

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Speaker 3: she had, and she knew when something was missing. So

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Speaker 3: very very very soon after Sarah took these items, they're

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Speaker 3: notice missing. So the Queen says, all right, we don't

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Speaker 3: know who did this. I need someone to keep an

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Speaker 3: eye on.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was quite clever too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you don't want to just go off

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Speaker 3: and start accusing people willy nilly. That might fly with

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Speaker 3: some royals. Not Queen Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: Not Queen Charlotte. No, she sets up a surveillance operation

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Speaker 1: and think about how many servants must exist in a

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Speaker 1: royal household. So there's clearly going to be several factions,

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Speaker 1: and there's also going to be some servants that she

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Speaker 1: trusts completely and then some that are still a little green,

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Speaker 1: and then some that she doesn't really interact with. So

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Speaker 1: we can only imagine that she goes to one of

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Speaker 1: the servants she legitimately trusts someone or some people with

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Speaker 1: whom she spent years and years right, and she asked

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Speaker 1: these people to watch not just the room, but this

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Speaker 1: particular closet. And this is where Sarah Wilson makes her

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Speaker 1: first error.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the criminal returning to the scene of

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Speaker 3: the crime. It's a trope in crime fiction, but that's

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Speaker 3: because it happens. That's human nature. You know, maybe your

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Speaker 3: prime criminal would go for the big score and then

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Speaker 3: never touch that room again, never go back. But Sarah

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Speaker 3: was not a professional criminal. She knew she got away

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Speaker 3: with something once, so she went back to the well again,

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Speaker 3: or in this case, the cabinet. Yes, but this time,

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Speaker 3: you know that law and order style stakeout whatever was

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Speaker 3: going on. It worked, and Sarah Wilson was caught in

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Speaker 3: the act of trying to rob Queen Charlotte once again.

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Speaker 1: So this is very very very bad news. The way

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Speaker 1: the laws work at the time, Sarah Wilson is charged

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Speaker 1: with theft and violation of the royal privacy.

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Speaker 3: And that's serious.

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Speaker 1: That is serious. Yeah, that is serious.

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Speaker 3: How serious?

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Speaker 1: More so than more so than theft, a violation of

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Speaker 1: the royal privacy carries with it the death sentence.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's serious.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So she receives the death sentence, and her original employer,

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Speaker 1: Lady in waiting Vernon, has not given.

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Speaker 3: Up on her. That's Caroline Vernon, right, Yes, that is.

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Speaker 1: Lady car Lady in waiting, Caroline Vernon, and Caroline takes

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Speaker 1: it upon herself to personally plead to Queen Charlotte please

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Speaker 1: spare Sarah.

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Speaker 3: She's made a mistake. But she maybe is a good girl.

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Speaker 3: She comes from a good background. She's I like.

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Speaker 1: Her, and she's so young, right, she's what's how young?

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Speaker 1: Sixteen seventeen at this age? So her please work somewhat,

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Speaker 1: and her punishment, the death sentence is commuted to what

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Speaker 1: they called transportation.

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Speaker 3: That sounds nice, it does, it does.

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Speaker 1: So she was just on subways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so where'd they transport her?

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Speaker 1: They transported her transportation? We should say it was a

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Speaker 1: didn't mean the same thing it means today. Transportation was

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Speaker 1: forcible exile. Oh, it's deportation. Got to be the closest

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Speaker 1: analog we have today, right, So in July seventeen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: she is placed on a prison ship and sent to Baltimore, Maryland.

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Speaker 3: It's a long transportation, it's a long ride.

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Speaker 1: It is long. You wouldn't want to put the Uber

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Speaker 1: bill for that. However, things get worse because when she

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Speaker 1: arrives in the what would become the United States.

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Speaker 3: So this is it's seventeen seventy one, who were five

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Speaker 3: years before? Right, everything kind of comes together still.

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Speaker 1: Just colonies colonies, yep. And she is not put in prison,

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Speaker 1: she has not given some sort of state level employment

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Speaker 1: or colonial level employment. She is put up for auction

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Speaker 1: and sold as a slave.

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Speaker 3: So she can't just kind of do her own thing

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Speaker 3: in the United States or in what would become the

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Speaker 3: United States. She's just in Maryland, transported there against her will,

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Speaker 3: although maybe willingly because otherwise the other option is to

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Speaker 3: be put to death. But then she's just in servitude.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's looking grim for Sarah. At this point, she's

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Speaker 1: sold to a fellow named W. Dval. He is a

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Speaker 1: planter from Bush Creek, Frederick County.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what she was doing for mister Devaal.

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Speaker 1: I have not seen too much detail about that.

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Speaker 3: That makes sense though, because I think she wasn't with

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Speaker 3: him for long.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right, She wasn't with him for long. And

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Speaker 1: at this case, you know, it's it's an unpleasant thing

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Speaker 1: to imagine, but physical abuse was prevalent with people who

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Speaker 1: were enslaved in this manner slavery in general. So while

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Speaker 1: we do not have confirmed records of what happened during

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Speaker 1: her time there, we know that she did not spend

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Speaker 1: very long there at all. As you said, Christopher, she

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Speaker 1: sought to improve her situation almost immediately, right she escapes

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Speaker 1: to Virginia lickety split, and she doesn't just go with

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Speaker 1: the clothes on her back. This is the weirdest part

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Speaker 1: of this story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the sort of thing where our lack

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Speaker 3: of a time machine is just really a bummer, because

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Speaker 3: I want to know the details of how this exactly happened.

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Speaker 3: When she escapes, she still has in her possession, which

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Speaker 3: means she brought over with her on her transportation from Britain.

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Speaker 3: She still had one of the rings she stole, she

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Speaker 3: still had some dresses, and she still had that miniature

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Speaker 3: portrait of Queen Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: But how do you have that?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, we like to think that

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Speaker 3: systems of power are in place and everyone does everything perfectly,

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Speaker 3: but anyone who has ever dealt with let's say, the police,

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Speaker 3: or the local county clerk or the ten and collector whoever. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: sometimes people who are supposed to be doing their jobs,

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Speaker 3: you know, they check the wrong box, they forget a comma,

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Speaker 3: and then when you go back to renew, they say, wait,

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Speaker 3: you're not even in our system. And you say, but

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Speaker 3: I was in your system. I had a hyphen in

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Speaker 3: my name and you took it out, and they don't

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Speaker 3: know what you're talking about. And then all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden you say, I had a thing of Queen Charlotte

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Speaker 3: and where is her? And no, I promised this dress

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Speaker 3: is mine. And I think that's probably how it happened.

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Speaker 1: And the romantic in me, you know, the fan of

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Speaker 1: fiction at least, has this this cinematic moment stuck in

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Speaker 1: my head, which almost certainly didn't happen wherein the queen says,

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Speaker 1: and take these garments with you, take them. Hence they

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Speaker 1: are soiled, you know.

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Speaker 3: They've been touched by the poor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they Yes, they've been touched by the boor, which

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Speaker 1: should also be a crime.

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Speaker 3: So at this point we although we're gonna be with

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Speaker 3: her for the rest of this story, we kind of

383
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Speaker 3: say goodbye to Sarah Wilson. We do. We say goodbye

384
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Speaker 3: to Sarah Wilson, and we say hello to Princess Susannah

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Speaker 3: Caroline Matilda, sister of Queen Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: Forced into exile in the colonies following a very enigmatic

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Speaker 1: family scandal.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you don't want to talk about it. It's too hard,

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Speaker 3: it's impolite. Now, it's royalty. It's not the sort of

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Speaker 3: thing you bring up at a polite dinner conversation in Virginia

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Speaker 3: when you are a princess.

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Speaker 1: When you are a princess. And also, it would be

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Speaker 1: violating the privacy of the royal family, and who would

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Speaker 1: want to do that. That's a crime.

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Speaker 3: That's terrible.

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Speaker 1: So this is strange. First off, the hutsba alone, you know,

397
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Speaker 1: congratulations to Princess Susannah Caroline Matilda. This is the kind

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Speaker 1: of con that is difficult to pull off. However, she

399
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: has several powerful things working to her advantage. First, as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, Christopher, she has all this stuff. Probably the

401
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: most powerful or most impactful of the material possession she

402
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: has for her new identity will be that miniature portrait

403
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Speaker 1: because of the sentimental value you mentioned earlier. But also

404
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: and equally as important here, she has intimate knowledge of

405
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Speaker 1: life in the royal court.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's on the other side of an ocean, but

407
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: she can still talk to people about the goings on

408
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 3: at the Queen's house, who's speaking with whom, and who's

409
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 3: falling out with whom, and how things are going upstairs

410
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: and downstairs. And you know, she's presenting herself as Susannah

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Speaker 3: Caroline Matilda, which I should also add of Mecklenburg Strelitz.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yes, yes, very important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Mecklenburg Strelitz is a Northern German dynasty sort

414
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Speaker 3: of who you know, Queen Charlotte was part of that

415
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Speaker 3: family and they've had their bloodline influencing royalty throughout Europe.

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Speaker 3: But as the former Sarah Wilson is presenting herself as

417
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Speaker 3: Susannah Caroline Matilda princess, you know, she really harnesses I

418
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 3: think a bit of nostalgia for what's going on back

419
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Speaker 3: to because again, a lot of the people living in

420
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Speaker 3: the United States or what would become the United States

421
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 3: still think of themselves as British subjects as you know,

422
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Speaker 3: not as American citizens. To them, the stories of the queens,

423
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Speaker 3: stories of the king, stories of what's happening in London,

424
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Speaker 3: those to them are stories from home. And so there

425
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 3: is that nostalgia and that yearning. And apparently Princess Susannah

426
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 3: really had an easier end with some of the older

427
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: generation in Virginia, the ones who still thought of themselves

428
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Speaker 3: as British, as English, and you know, she could tell

429
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 3: them what was going on and kind of let them

430
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Speaker 3: relive there and maybe it's been decades since they were

431
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Speaker 3: back home.

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Speaker 1: And there's also this there's also this interesting mechanism that

433
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: could occur whenever you're working with nostalgia, which is she

434
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: could mention a name or a title that these people,

435
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: especially the Old Guard, would have been familiar with, and

436
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: then let them fill in the blanks based on the

437
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: scant information she actually had. And when she does that,

438
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: they would feel that they were learning something new, but

439
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: just as importantly, they would feel that they were displaying

440
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: their knowledge and therefore they were still people with their

441
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: what do we say, with their ear to the wind,

442
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: their eyes peeled under.

443
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: There, toenails to the grindstone, something like that.

444
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: Sure, yes, their fingers and the toenails on the pulse,

445
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: so they would still feel relevant. Having this knowledge, we

446
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: can also, I think reasonably assume that even for the

447
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: people who were not the older generation, there was tremendous

448
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: social cachet to be had in hosting not just a

449
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: member of English aristocracy, but the sibling of the Queen.

450
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: And you know already again seventeen seventy one, seventeen seventy two.

451
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: As you said, we're just a few years out from

452
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: the revolutionary war as we call it in this country.

453
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: And this also plays into displays of loyalism.

454
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: Well that's the thing. So, you know, Princess Susannah is

455
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 3: telling people she's been sent to the colonies because of

456
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: some falling out back home. She can't get into the details,

457
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: but she will soon be restored to her rightful position

458
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 3: back home. Ah, yes, and that's you know. So she's

459
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: at these dinner parties, at these salons, at these social events, mingling,

460
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 3: whining and dining, and so people are eager to really

461
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: buy into the story because if she's telling the truth,

462
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 3: even if there's doubt in their minds. If she's telling

463
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 3: the truth, they are now socially connected to a princess.

464
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: So if she's restored to power, Let's say they need

465
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: a favor. Let's say they have a son who needs

466
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: a high paying position at a company. Let's say they

467
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: need some land grants. Let's say they need to, gosh,

468
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, raise an army for whatever they want

469
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: to do, whatever that might be. Yeah, you know, old

470
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: rich people, they got things armies can do.

471
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: That is absolutely true. There is a third advantage that

472
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: this part of American colonial society sees, and that's you know,

473
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: I can pay you, princess, since we are such very

474
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: good friends. The typical let's call it an administrative fee,

475
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: not a bribe, but the typical administrative fee that would

476
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: be expected in order to have myself or a relation

477
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: of mine granted a position maybe on the court, maybe

478
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: associated with it somehow, with some government organ or body

479
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: as soon as you return, and we know that will

480
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 1: be soon. So they saw this as an investment in

481
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: many ways. They were they they were actually giving This

482
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: is where the con part comes in. They were actually

483
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: giving Princess Susannah currency.

484
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: They were giving her money cash money, yes, yash money. Yes.

485
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 3: They speaks just as strongly three hundred years ago as

486
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: it does today, but also gifts. You know, I imagine

487
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: places to stay, access to carriages, you know, a nice

488
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 3: a nice bedroom for a week, or wardrobe, all that stuff. Here.

489
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: Have a horse, yeah, why not?

490
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: We've all been in that situation. Here. You look, take

491
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: this horse.

492
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: This one for me, whichever one, princess, whichever one you

493
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 3: want to and you make me feel like one. Chris,

494
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: take you Christo.

495
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: Learned it all from Casey Pegrove. But you know what,

496
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: these sorts of shenanigans are increasingly difficult to pull off

497
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: over time.

498
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: Over time. And so she went all over the colonies.

499
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: This wasn't just Virginia, this wasn't just Maryland. She was

500
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 3: in Georgia, she was in the Carolina. She met the

501
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: governor of North Carolina. I mean, this is like high level,

502
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 3: high level stuff. She has access. But people have some questions.

503
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: That's right, and they want to be very careful with

504
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: the manner in which they poose these questions.

505
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: To someone like Princess Susannah Carolina Matilda's sister to the

506
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: queen family of Macklenburg. Strelitz nailed it. Not only but

507
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: she had a couple other aliases too. She also went

508
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: by the Marquisonis de Walde Grave. She was also known

509
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 3: as the Princess of Cronenberg.

510
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: No association with the director that we know of, that

511
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: we know of, Yes, it's very fair. Yeah. She would

512
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: use these names on different occasions, and she would, as

513
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: you said, travel widely. She was meeting tremendously influential people,

514
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: and folks were starting to ask questions because in these

515
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: circles there would be people who speak German.

516
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, if she was supposedly from Germany, raised in Germany, Yeah,

517
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: how come you don't speak German?

518
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: Right, she refused to perhaps because of the quarrel, yeah.

519
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: Or she was in the new in the new world,

520
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: speaking a new language. But even then she spoke perfect English.

521
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: Flawless English.

522
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: Yeah you know why, because she was English.

523
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, kiser SoSE a moment for me. Yeah, but yeah,

524
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: people people were saying, well, that's weird because I have

525
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: been speaking English for decades and decades and decades. I

526
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: grew up speaking German and I still have a little

527
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: bit of an accent, you know. What I mean, So

528
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: why is she flawless with it? And then there was

529
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: another question that seems very obvious to us in retrospect.

530
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: Well, that's it's the one where everyone thinks, wait a minute,

531
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: does Queen Charlotte have a sister?

532
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: Right? Why haven't I heard of her?

533
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe she's able to turn it around and really

534
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: play on people's insecurities and say, maybe I wasn't important

535
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: enough to know about the Queen's sister.

536
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Or maybe you're not. Yeah, maybe you're not as

537
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: plugged in as you want other people at this dinner

538
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: party to believe. And so people probably for some time

539
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: that strategy is effective, and people are reticent to voice

540
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: their concerns because they don't want to seem to be

541
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: the odd person out.

542
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 3: Might I also suggest that maybe men act a little

543
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: dumb in the presence of someone who might be a princess.

544
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: I think that is an excellent suggestion, having not, to

545
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: my knowledge at this point in life, interacted with a princess.

546
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: I can't speak from experience, but I feel like that

547
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: is I feel like that is, unfortunately a very stute observation.

548
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 3: Men can be dumb no way.

549
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: So you're right, though, that's a good point. That's one

550
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of historians don't talk about.

551
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 3: Well, it's not necessarily brought up. It's not like all

552
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: these people who are giving her gifts are described as

553
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: as suitors particularly, but knowing men, knowing that sort of

554
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,239
Speaker 3: patriarchal society that was in place at the time, I

555
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: have to imagine that some of these people who are

556
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: wealthy landowners in the colonies, meeting a single young princess

557
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: applying her with gifts might have some motives of marrying

558
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: into royalty or other motives. Yeah. Absolutely, And men will

559
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 3: do dumb things, yes, when they have those motives. Absolutely.

560
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean I would say people in general. But in

561
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: this situation, it's only fair to note that that trend

562
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: toward thick headedness is probably accelerated in men.

563
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: So the scam didn't hold.

564
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: The scam did not hold because speaking of men, we

565
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: have to reintroduce a character that briefly appeared earlier in

566
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: the tale, a mister w Devall, who it turns out,

567
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: is not happy about Sarah Wilson as he knew.

568
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 3: Her, and maybe not that dumb of a man, because eventually,

569
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 3: after a couple of years pass he hears a description

570
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 3: of this princess. He hears talk and he probably says,

571
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: oh that wow, a princess in the colonies. That's interesting.

572
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: What does she look like? And they say, this is

573
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 3: what she looks like, and he says, I know someone

574
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: who looks like that, Yes, and it's Sarah Wilson.

575
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: And he has been trying to find this the one

576
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: that got away. Literally, so it is autumn of seventeen

577
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: seventy three. Remember, she's been on the runs since seventeen

578
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: seventy one ish, and.

579
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: He's been looking for her, actually since seventeen seventy one.

580
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: I have here in front of me from the Pennsylvania Gazette,

581
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: published on October eleventh, seventeen seventy one, an advertisement for

582
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 3: a runaway slave. And this is what William Devall wrote

583
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 3: in the newspaper back in seventeen seventy one. It took

584
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: out an ad run away from the subscriber a convict

585
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: servant maid named Sarah Wilson, but has changed name to

586
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 3: Lady Susanna Carolina Matilda, which has made the public believe

587
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: that she was His Majesty's sister. And here's where we

588
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 3: get into the realizing what she looked like she has

589
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: a blemish in her right eye, black rolled hair, stoops

590
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: in the shoulders, makes a common practice of writing, and

591
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: marked her clothes with a crown and a bee. Whosoever

592
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: secures the said servant woman or takes her home, shall

593
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 3: receive five pistols besides all costs and charges. So if

594
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: you find Sarah Wilson, all your expenses are paid and

595
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: you get five pistols.

596
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: What a deal.

597
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: Five pistols. And I should say, I'm going to applaud

598
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: myself for reading that, because this is an old timey

599
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 3: advertisement from an old timey newspaper, and it's got those

600
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 3: medialess's which are such a pain. They look like an

601
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: f they do look like without the crossbar. They go

602
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: all the way back to old English, and I'm glad

603
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 3: that they're gone. Now, you know the thank thank you

604
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: movable type. We don't need all those weird looking s's

605
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 3: that make everything sound like an Act of Congress.

606
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: Act of Congress. Yes, yeah, it's true. Those are a pain.

607
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: And I applaud your recital there, Christopher.

608
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 3: I applaud Casey for cutting out all of my flubs

609
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 3: love flubs. No, well, that's the thing you use a

610
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: curvys at the end, but not at the beginning. So

611
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 3: if it looks like the word flub is flubd, but

612
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 3: the word flubs would to us look like flubs.

613
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: And we can only hope that old man Willie D

614
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: was going through the same process as he was writing

615
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: this advertisement.

616
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: So I really really hope at some point there's some

617
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 3: sort of merchandise out there that people can have a

618
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: bumper sticker or a a little a little pin, or

619
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 3: some just gaudy T shirt they can wear that says,

620
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: you know, I am a proud, ridiculous historian.

621
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: That's great, Casey, do you like that one?

622
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: I love that idea historians. Yeah, medial s's for everyone.

623
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: Casey on the case. We'll put it to a vote

624
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: to let us know what you think about these What

625
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: are they called medial.

626
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 3: A medial s? Yeah, it's it's also known as a

627
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 3: long S because a short S is the short, round

628
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 3: one or curvy or you know, just an Sso as

629
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 3: we would say.

630
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: I like the I like the depths of resentment that

631
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: are that are emanating across the tape.

632
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: Hey, Mat, you didn't have to read this, so I

633
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 3: might we do have another bit of old timy newspaper

634
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 3: right here, I may pass it to you and uh,

635
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 3: and you to the test.

636
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: We've created a monster.

637
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: But months monthter month, monthter.

638
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 1: Monthter, that's fun to say.

639
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 3: I actually we should get back on track. So they're

640
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: on the hunt.

641
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, the word is out. And in addition to publicizing

642
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: this advertisement and appeal in offering this reward, he sends

643
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: he being Willie, sends one of his employees, a man

644
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: named Michael Dalton, to retrieve Sarah. Dalton has you know,

645
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: he has a certain set of skills. Liam Neeson's style

646
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: we can only assume because he does eventually track the

647
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: princess down to a plantation in Charleston right after she left,

648
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: so he is hot on her wake, hot on her trail.

649
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: And then he doesn't give up. He follows the clues

650
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: Carmen San Diego style, and he finds her at a

651
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: neighboring plantation. He captures her. He takes her back to

652
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: that estate in Bush Creek, Frederick County.

653
00:38:58,600 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: And that's in Virginia.

654
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's in Virginia.

655
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: Is that the end of the story. She just gets

656
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 3: captured and she goes right back into servitude.

657
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes things just end I'm kidding.

658
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 3: I'm kidding, Okay, I I mean it's always home on

659
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 3: this pony.

660
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: Right, Well, you still have to take some time to

661
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: name the pony before before we ride it out, and

662
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: I would I would advise something heavy on the f's

663
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: and the s's. But this is not the end of

664
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: the story, is it, Christopher.

665
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: You know it's not. There's more scamming ahead, as as

666
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 3: may not be so surprising with miss Sarah Wilson. So

667
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: Sarah is on the plantation, she's working at this point.

668
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 3: It's seventeen seventy five, though, but Devall's not at home

669
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: because he has left the plantation to fight in the

670
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: militia for the American War of Independence.

671
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: Yes, which we now know as the Revolutionary War. And

672
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: while he is gone, a very very strange qui sentence

673
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: of hers. This is the kind of thing you can't

674
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: write in fiction because no one will believe you.

675
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like this seems like a really unsatisfying

676
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: end to things because it's just so improbable. But according

677
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 3: to the historical record, this is what happened. Another either

678
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: enslaved person or servant girl, also by the name of

679
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: Sarah Wilson crosses paths with Sarah Wilson that you and

680
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: I and the listeners now.

681
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: And this is very vague. We want, we want to

682
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: let all of our fellow listeners know. We are very

683
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: well aware that this is incredibly vague. Somehow our Sarah Wilson,

684
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: the former princess, is able to switch I guess, bodies

685
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: or make people confuse the new Sarah Wilson for her.

686
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: And then during this confusion, while her owner is away,

687
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: while this creep the all is away, she escapes and

688
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: this time she heads north.

689
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the southward direction did not work out so well

690
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 3: for her in the past when she was a princess,

691
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: so she splits. She goes north. She leaves Sarah Wilson

692
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 3: the second in place of Sarah Wilson. The first too

693
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: bad for Sarah Wilson. The second. I guess. We think

694
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 3: this is the end of her story, although maybe she

695
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: was already gonna be on that plantation anyway. And Sarah

696
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: Juan was like, oh, no, no, that's Sarah Wilson over there.

697
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 3: Are you looking for Sarah Wilson. That's Sarah. Hey, are

698
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 3: you named Sarah Wilson, And she says, yeah, that's me.

699
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: And then she's like, well, I'm just gonna walk away

700
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: as you guys go talk to her. And you know,

701
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: there's just a lot of this like convincing people and

702
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: gift of gab. You know, you've got to really be

703
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 3: a smooth talker. This reminds me of the story a

704
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 3: little bit of that bridge.

705
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Tabor Bridge, right, the two French marshals who

706
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: decided to con their way across the Daniel.

707
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, you and Noel had a really great episode about this,

708
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 3: and thanks man. Yeah, you know, ridiculous historians. If you

709
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: have not listened to that episode, go dig it up.

710
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 3: I mean, we kind of just gave you the surprise ending.

711
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 3: But it's still a great story regardless. There's all sorts

712
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 3: of weird boasting and French chest puffery and you know,

713
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 3: almost bombings and Hungarian Confusion and which, by the way,

714
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 3: really good band name.

715
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: I think Hungarian Confusion. That is an excellent band name.

716
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: My friend, Yeah, Hungary. I'm hang on, sorry, everybody listening,

717
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write that down.

718
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 3: Okay. Ken's actually just filing for an LLC right now, Yes,

719
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 3: Gary Revolution. But Sarah Wilson, she is not confused about

720
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 3: what she's doing. She heads out of Virginia goes north

721
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: and at least for the foreseeable future, lives a somewhat

722
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: normal life. Still has a lot of her money, which

723
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: she again.

724
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: Like, where where is she put it?

725
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: Where does the money go? Where does she keep it?

726
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: Are there secret bank accounts? Does she have secret pockets?

727
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: Has she literally buried boxes of coin?

728
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 3: Maybe she has just like a lot of hair, Yeah,

729
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 3: just like a huge head of hair, and there's just

730
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 3: like envelopes of money in there. Could be I.

731
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: Mean, at the time, it may have been a sound investment.

732
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, some money sewn into the lining of

733
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: a coat or something like that. Anyway, she's got all

734
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: this money, and she ends up all the way up

735
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: in New York. She actually meets a young military man

736
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 3: named William Talbot.

737
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: Or alternatively Sterling.

738
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: Oh is that right?

739
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: Well sometimes it differs, it depends on the source. But yeah,

740
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 1: she meets this. She meets a nice young man and

741
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: he is a military man. He's an officer in the

742
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: light Dragoons. And the war transpires. Spoiler alert, This part

743
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: of the North American continent becomes a country we call

744
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 1: the United States today.

745
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 3: Part of it.

746
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 1: Okay, you're familiar with its work, and the couple decides

747
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: to stay in this new country.

748
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 3: What are they doing?

749
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: Probably they're avoiding arrest For Sarah, she turns to England,

750
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: but they also she uses her money. Maybe she did this,

751
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: maybe she kept jewelry and then sold the jewelry. That

752
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: might have happened. But she uses this money that she

753
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: has acquired to set up her husband as a businessman,

754
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: and they live, as far as we can tell from

755
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: the record, they live happily. Ever after. They have a

756
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: lot of kids, and they set up their residence in

757
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: the Bowery in New York, which at the time was

758
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: a quiet, nice neighborhood.

759
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,479
Speaker 3: Kind of a happy ending for her, it is.

760
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: Especially when you consider how close she came to very

761
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: very terrible things. I don't know. It also reminds me

762
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: in a way. You remember that Disney film Pinocchio, right stories, So,

763
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 1: as a kid, I thought Pinocchio was really cool until

764
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: one of my friends later on, years and years later,

765
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: pointed out to me that Pinocchio has this horrible lesson

766
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: for children in terms of morality.

767
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: Tell me about it.

768
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, I'll keep it brief. But Pinocchio from his beginning

769
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: is told to do the following kind of things or

770
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: not do these things so that he can ultimately become

771
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: self actualized and be a real boy. He breaks all

772
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: of those rules or those commandments or whatever, and then

773
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: at the end he gets the reward. Anyway, that's true.

774
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: So did Sarah Wilson have a moment? We can tell.

775
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: One thing we can tell that differentiates her from other

776
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: con artists is that when she got to a good spot,

777
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: she stopped. There are other con artists who just can't

778
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: give up the game.

779
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: Well, there was a point though, you know, And this

780
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: is where I'd like more detail about her life. And

781
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 3: I mean this to me seems ripe for some Hollywood

782
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 3: tale and I'd love to see this turn into a

783
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 3: film and really dig into the story. But there was

784
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 3: a time before she met her husband, after she escaped Virginia,

785
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 3: Oh yes, where she she had this little side escapade.

786
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 3: And there's not a lot that I could dig up

787
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 3: about this, but she she teamed up with this with

788
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: this criminal who was known by the alias of Tom Bell.

789
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 3: He was an irishman also known as Patrick O'Connor. But

790
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 3: they they kind of worked together for a while and

791
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 3: he introduced himself to people as mister Edward Augustus Montague,

792
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 3: a gentleman of fortune and betrothed lover of Princess Susannah

793
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: Carolina Matilda. Yeah, so, I maybe maybe the princess came

794
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: back after her her flight from Virginia and before she

795
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: settled in New York. Maybe there's this this sort of

796
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: interim of her flirting again with this world of intrigue

797
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 3: and all the scams. Yeah, and I don't know much

798
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 3: about it.

799
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: We don't know, Like we as species don't know much

800
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: about this part of her life, which makes it by

801
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 1: far one of the most intriguing and fascinating. We don't

802
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: know much about Patrick O'Connor or his alias Tom Bell,

803
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: but we do know that they did for a brief time.

804
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: She did go into a two person con act, and

805
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe they really were betrothed.

806
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, he was a fairly well

807
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 3: known criminal at the time. I mean, this could be

808
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 3: the sort of thing where maybe they pulled off one

809
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 3: last heist and she got out of the life. It's

810
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 3: a sort of you know, like a like a Danny

811
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: Ocean kind of situation where she teams up with this

812
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: acclaimed crime guy, she gets what she needs and you

813
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 3: know she has her happily ever after.

814
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: You also have to wonder whether the man who ultimately

815
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: became her husband knew about her stint as a princess

816
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: knew did she tell him her true, true, true story,

817
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: or did she say like, maybe I'm an orphan and

818
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: this is my family fortune. Yeah, I love you, I

819
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about my past. Let's start a

820
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: new life together in the Bowery. And then maybe he

821
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: just went head over heels Christopher. Maybe he was just like, well,

822
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: I'm in love and being a dude, I'm kind of dumb.

823
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 3: And I do need some money. I do and I do.

824
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: Need some as you said, cash money.

825
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 3: Oh speaking of cash money, Benett, Yes, I thought this

826
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: might be a good way to wrap up because I

827
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 3: this is a little off topic, but it's related to

828
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: some royalty and some cash money. I wanted to get

829
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: your opinion and ridiculous historians. If you have any advice

830
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: for me. I got this email from a Nigerian prince.

831
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 3: Oh okay, do tell And he's asking for some money?

832
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: Okay?

833
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 3: Should I help him out?

834
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: How much money is he asking for?

835
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: More than I've got? Oh?

836
00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: Okay? Then without having a doctorate, in finance, I would

837
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: advise you depending on how much. Well, first, how much

838
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: time do you have.

839
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 3: I don't have enough time. I'll spoiler alert. Yes I'm

840
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: not giving this guy any money. But the thing is,

841
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 3: you know, we're talking about this weird scam of someone

842
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: putting themselves forth as royalty, and it sounds like the

843
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 3: sort of thing like, oh, this is just a thing

844
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 3: that you know, those historical roubs back in the day

845
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 3: fell for. It's going on still. I in preparing to

846
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: come chat with you guys here. I did a little

847
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: digging and there was a report last year from the

848
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 3: Security Services ADT. In twenty eighteen alone, people in the

849
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 3: United States fell prey to the Nigerian scams and other

850
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 3: sort of email scams like that where people are just

851
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 3: asking for money to the tune of more than seven

852
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars last year alone, and it averaged out

853
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 3: to about two one hundred dollars per person.

854
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

855
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: So this this scam of royalty, this desire to buy

856
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: into to a story, this ability to be hoodwinked. You know,

857
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 3: I think it's just baked into humanity. It's just who

858
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 3: we are, we want to believe, we want to help.

859
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: And if someone says they're a prince or a princess, hey,

860
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 3: why not wow?

861
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: And it gets our inner foxmoulder. Huh. I want to

862
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: believe what I was going to advise you to do

863
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 1: off the record, again, not being a doctorate, just between you, Casey,

864
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: me and the millions of us listening.

865
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 3: You're not recording this, Casey, right right, this is all

866
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 3: off the record, perfect. I just don't want this out

867
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 3: in the world. That would be embarrassing.

868
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: I've read accounts of people who essentially scammed the scammers,

869
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: which is on the murky side of unethical pranking.

870
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 3: What do you talk that is fighting the good fights?

871
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: Well, the idea is, you know, they'll say stuff like, sure,

872
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: you've contacted me, I do have this money. I will

873
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: give you this information, but first I want to know.

874
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: First you need to prove something in good faith or whatever.

875
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: And I've found situations wherein someone convinced the scammer or

876
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: someone who knows the scammer to get a tattoo or

877
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: to write essays about Harry Potter and things of that nature. So,

878
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: if you have the time and the inclination, and you

879
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: don't feel particularly guilty about trolling people, who are trying

880
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: to steal from you. Then then I would advise to

881
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: find I would advise you to find the funniest prank

882
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 1: to pull.

883
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 3: We'll check back in.

884
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: We'll check back in, and perhaps, Christopher, one day you

885
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: will be known too, as as a genius of the

886
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: con because one of the most American things about about

887
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: the way we treat con artists here in the US

888
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: is that they are often begrudgingly admired, you know what

889
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: I mean. The idea of this, this slick talking, clever

890
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 1: individual violating social norms and getting away with it, it's

891
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: imprinted into our DNA. And that's why the Providence Rhode

892
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: Island Gazette and Country Journal in January of seventeen seventy

893
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: four noted that Sarah Wilson is quote the most surprising

894
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: genius of the female sex that was ever obliged to

895
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: visit America. Let's just walk past that blatant, you know,

896
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: misogyny there. They're basically saying smart for a woman, because

897
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: they're being jerks. But what they're also doing, and what

898
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: I think is more important for our purposes here, is

899
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: they are praising the intelligence of this person. They're saying,

900
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: this is one of the smartest people in this country.

901
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: Too bad they're not a politician or you know, a philanthropist.

902
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: Can't win them all, can't win them all. But I

903
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: feel like this was a big win for Casey, Nol

904
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: and Spirit and I to have you over on the show,

905
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: and we hope that you enjoyed this episode. We want

906
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Let us know some of your

907
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: favorite historical cons other than the Trojan Horse, other than

908
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,439
Speaker 1: that one, you know, that's that's sort of like going

909
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: to carry Oka and playing don't Stop Believing.

910
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 3: And whatever we want to call this con of you

911
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 3: somehow being convinced to let me sit in here and

912
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 3: chat with you guys, feel like I've scammed everyone.

913
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, that's it. Hey, that's a good question. Is

914
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: your name Christopher, isn't it? I don't know.

915
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 3: Casey.

916
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: I believe him. He's just got such a such an

917
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: amicable air about him.

918
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 3: You know, no comment, all right, just call me princess.

919
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: Oh wow, you guys are in on this together. Well,

920
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: here's hoping that I don't get scammed out of millions

921
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: of dollars. But if I do, I'm glad it was

922
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: from you. To thank you as always to our super producer,

923
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. Thank you to Alex Williams, who composed our track.

924
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: Thank you to Gabe, our research associate. Christopher, we often

925
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: thank you on this show, so it's a little strange

926
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: that you're here now. I'm really glad to thank you

927
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: in person. Thanks for coming on, man.

928
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 3: You're welcome. Thank you for having me Bannon, and thanks

929
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 3: for having me ridiculous Historians.

930
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: And stay tuned for our next episode, wherein Christopher and

931
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: I will explore not a not a con.

932
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 3: No, things are going to get a little uh grimeier Gramer,

933
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 3: Gramer grammar Grimeer, just a little dark. Well gross, what fun?

934
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 3: It's still ridiculous.

935
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: Stay tuned

936
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

937
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.