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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease a sixteen year old girl

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Speaker 1: and she just turned sixteen. For all intents and purposes,

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Speaker 1: she's still fifteen. This teen girl is in a coma

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Speaker 1: with bleeding to the brain. Her grandmother tells us that

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Speaker 1: she prays every night for the little girl to heal.

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Speaker 1: Why because of a beat down from another teen girl?

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Speaker 1: Wait for it. While we all stand by hoping and

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Speaker 1: praying that Kelly Gain lives, will she be permanently braineddamage

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Speaker 1: because it looks like she will be at the hands

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Speaker 1: of another teen who apparently is going to get the

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Speaker 1: max of around eighteen months in juvenile hall. Yes, you

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Speaker 1: know what that is. It's you in a dormitory style

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Speaker 1: setting where you have touchy feely therapy sessions every day,

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Speaker 1: and you go to school, you learn a trade. While

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Speaker 1: this girl may be permanently brain damaged if she lives. Hello,

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Speaker 1: wake up, Saint Louis this girl the purp must be

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Speaker 1: prosecuted as an adult and catch this The beat down

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Speaker 1: occurred just a couple of blows away from the high school.

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Speaker 1: And guess what the school says. We want to extend

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Speaker 1: our thoughts and prayers to all involved. What to all involved?

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Speaker 1: What about the little could you put that picture back up? Please?

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Speaker 1: What about little Kelly Gain lying there? She looks dead

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Speaker 1: as all of the attackers and bystanders run and scatter,

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Speaker 1: they leave her there. Ah ah, I'm not leaving it there.

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Speaker 1: Look at the statement from Hazelwood East High It's a tragedy.

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Speaker 1: Anytime children are hurt, bullying and fighting in the community

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Speaker 1: is an issue for which we all need to take ownership.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean, ownership and work toward resolution? What

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Speaker 1: does that mean put her rearan behind bars for a

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Speaker 1: good twenty That's what I call resolution for this of

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Speaker 1: our children. The Hazelwood School District offers our sincereus condolences

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Speaker 1: to everyone involved. They don't even mention killing Gain. Are

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Speaker 1: they extending empathy toward the attackers, because that's what it

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Speaker 1: sounds like to me. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: and on Serious XM one eleven. I want to warn

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Speaker 1: you we're about to play the video of what happened,

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Speaker 1: and it is very, very disturbing, and if you think

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get upset, look away for about thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: If you could play new York the full video and

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Speaker 1: cashay while the little girl is being beaten into a

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Speaker 1: coma some a whole technical legal term videos the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: They don't bother call nine to one one or help killing.

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Speaker 1: They video the whole thing. It's all like entertainment for them. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's roll it. Video of Kelly Gain being beaten. Okay, listen,

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Speaker 1: you could actually hear Thistle girls. She's the same age

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Speaker 1: as my son and daughter, Lucy and John David, and

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Speaker 1: you could actually hear her head at that distance being

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Speaker 1: hit down footing against this cement. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this girl will ever be the same. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD, but I

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Speaker 1: don't see how this little girl can ever ever make

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Speaker 1: a comeback from that. Just another thing about the video.

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Speaker 1: You know I've told many many juries. I know you

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Speaker 1: want to look away. I know it's upsetting and I've

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Speaker 1: seen many a JR or WinCE and try to look away. No, No,

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Speaker 1: we have to look. We have to see, we have

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Speaker 1: to hear and know what's going on and know the

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Speaker 1: facts before we can render any type of deduction analysis

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Speaker 1: or judgment. You saw the video. I'm gonna play it

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Speaker 1: again video of Keillye Gaine being viciously beaten. You think she,

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Speaker 1: this girl, Marnie Declue, should be treated as a juvenile. Okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: you take her home and have her in your home

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Speaker 1: around your children, because there was no way in hgublel

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Speaker 1: that I would let her get near John, David and Lucy.

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Speaker 1: Did you see her go back to the victim lying there?

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Speaker 1: And remember, at this moment, the brain is bleeding, the

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Speaker 1: little girl is going into a comma. Did you see

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Speaker 1: Marnie Declue the attacker go back to the victim, and

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Speaker 1: she looked like a prize fighter. She was, you know,

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Speaker 1: jabbing and punching in the air, really like she's about

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Speaker 1: to go back into the ring with the wwe like,

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Speaker 1: jabbing and dancing around like she's about to take a

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Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali instead of helping the girl that she just horribly,

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Speaker 1: horribly maimed. With me an all star panel to make

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Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. But first I

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Speaker 1: want to go out to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. Alexis, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning. What happened?

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Speaker 2: So this was a school day.

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Speaker 3: Right after school in the afternoon, these students leave their school.

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Speaker 3: They walk not even five minutes away and get into

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Speaker 3: a fight, but on a public street.

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Speaker 2: The girls start.

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Speaker 3: Fighting with each other, and the one who is obviously

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Speaker 3: twice the size of Kaylie Keyley looks like she does

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Speaker 3: not even weigh one hundred pounds. She's tiny skinning. Gets

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Speaker 3: thrown to the ground, punched in the head multiple times,

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Speaker 3: and then she's held down on the cement on the street,

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Speaker 3: picked up, slammed down over and over and over. Her

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Speaker 3: head is slammed into the ground. There's a whole brawl

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Speaker 3: going on. There's a melee. The girl that slammed Kaylee

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Speaker 3: then gets up and starts screaming at other people don't

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Speaker 3: hit him, don't hit him, and trying to protect a

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Speaker 3: boy that's there, but the girls the starts the fight.

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Speaker 3: People drive by and don't stop and help. Some girls

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Speaker 3: try to pull her off to help their friend, and

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Speaker 3: she still is the only one there. There are at

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Speaker 3: least fifteen other kids around, and none of them stop

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Speaker 3: her from repeatedly and viciously hitting her head on the street.

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Speaker 1: Guys, I want you to take a listen. Hour cut

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Speaker 1: forward This is Dave Matt from Crime Online.

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Speaker 4: Around two thirty pm, minutes after the school day ended,

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Speaker 4: students from Hazelwood East High School in Saint Louis County, Missouri,

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Speaker 4: gathered to watch the end of an altercation between two

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Speaker 4: fifteen year old girls. Profanity has heard from the crowd

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Speaker 4: as well as one of the participants. The girls square

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Speaker 4: off with arms outstretched, uncertain of what to do next.

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Speaker 4: Kaylee Gane is one of the girls in the fight,

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Speaker 4: her opponent unnamed, but it is the unnamed fifteen year

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Speaker 4: old girl that quickly gets the upper hand in the fight,

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Speaker 4: pulling Gain to the ground while pummeling Gane in the

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Speaker 4: head and upper body. As Gane is now on her

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Speaker 4: back on the pavement, a bystander tries to intervene by

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Speaker 4: trying to get the unnamed girl off Kayley Gain. The

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Speaker 4: bystander is quickly rushed by two other girls who push

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Speaker 4: her back from the fight and begin a separate fight

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Speaker 4: of their own while Gain is being pounded by a

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Speaker 4: closed fist to the head and of her body.

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Speaker 1: Guys, all of this takes time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to Chris Slusher, high profile lawyer

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Speaker 1: joining us out of this jurisdiction in Missouri. You can

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Speaker 1: find him at mid Missouri Lawyers dot com. Chris, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. The reason I'm bringing up

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Speaker 1: time It all went by so quickly. When you hear

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, the investigative reporter from crime Online describe it,

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Speaker 1: first this, then that, then this, then that as he

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Speaker 1: explains it, it takes him a minute to explain it,

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Speaker 1: but it all happened so quickly, as does as do

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Speaker 1: most crimes of this nature. My point is to form

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Speaker 1: intent under the law, intent to do the deed. The

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Speaker 1: law does not require a prolonged period of planning, such

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Speaker 1: as poisoning someone over a period of months. Intent to

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Speaker 1: do a crime can be formed in the blink of

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Speaker 1: an eye, the twinkling of a moment. The time it

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Speaker 1: takes you to grab the girl's shoulder and hit her

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Speaker 1: on the ground is time to form intent under the law.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that true, Chris Slusher?

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Speaker 5: She can be formal very quickly, and under Missouri law.

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Speaker 5: One of the things that clearly the defense will be

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Speaker 5: looking at and the prosecution is self defense.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, I just choked on my tea when

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Speaker 1: you said self defense spoken like a true trial lawyer.

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Speaker 1: I can see where this is going self defense, my

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Speaker 1: rear end what there was never any self defense going

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Speaker 1: on here. She beat the girl, pounding her head into

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Speaker 1: the cement over and over and over. So where are

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Speaker 1: you getting the self defense theory?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think you're right. The difficulty for the juvenile

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Speaker 5: charge is not what took place when the fight started.

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Speaker 5: It's the strikes to the head to the payment. And

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Speaker 5: what the law says is what you're saying that intent

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Speaker 5: and mental states have changed during the course of events.

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Speaker 6: So if she was reasonable in defending herself when the

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Speaker 6: fight started, that doesn't mean the force that she used

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Speaker 6: was reasonable when she caused the strikes to the head

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Speaker 6: to the pavement.

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Speaker 5: And so you're correct about that. And that's the type

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Speaker 5: of analysis that.

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Speaker 1: Will take place, guys. Right now, apparently the prosecutor in

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction is trying to decide whether adult charges are

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Speaker 1: going to be pursued. The reality is if they are not.

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Speaker 1: This young girl, the attacker, Marnie declue. You think this

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Speaker 1: is her first time at the rodeo? Oh no, she

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Speaker 1: had some moves that Mike Tyson would end thee This

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Speaker 1: is not her first time throwing a punch joining me. Also,

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Speaker 1: in addition to high profile lawyer Chris Slusher and Alexis Treschuk,

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Speaker 1: doctor Harvey Castro is joining US Board Certified Emergency Care

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Speaker 1: Physician health care consultant. Harvey, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Castro. Explain to me how bleeding on the brain

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Speaker 1: has occurred, And I'm looking at the grandmother's most recent statement.

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Speaker 1: She says the family is devastated and that the condition

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Speaker 1: is imminent. I'm not quite sure what she means by imminent.

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Speaker 1: It makes me afraid the girl is about to die.

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Speaker 1: Talking about Kelly Gang, the sixteen year old girl, it

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Speaker 1: makes me fear she's about to die. But how do

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Speaker 1: you get bleeding to the brain? And how is it

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Speaker 1: that every moment counts as all these people are standing

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Speaker 1: around taking videos and egging on the fight, every moment

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Speaker 1: counted for Kelly Gang.

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Speaker 2: This is so so gud wrenching.

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Speaker 7: As a parent, I am this extremely disturbed by seeing

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Speaker 7: this video, and as any hour doctor, it's never easy

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Speaker 7: to watch any of these things. To answer your question, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 7: what happens is we get struck into our soul, and

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Speaker 7: in this particular case, when she got struck, the injury

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Speaker 7: to the skull actually broke the skull, basically a fracture.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait wait wait wait wait wait wait Okay. So

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Speaker 1: you're saying when her head was beaten down the cement,

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Speaker 1: not just but multiple times, even though one blow could

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Speaker 1: have done it. I mean I heard the thud, you know,

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Speaker 1: doctor Castro, when you hear say a rattlesnake, right, you

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Speaker 1: never forget the sound when you hear when somebody locks

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Speaker 1: and loads a shotgun. You hear that sound. You never

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Speaker 1: forget it. That thud is something you never get over

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Speaker 1: a human head being slammed down on cement, and you

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Speaker 1: can actually hear kind of a dull, wet sounding thud, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: Is that how you would? There's no other way to

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Speaker 1: describe it. It's sickening. It's sickening, and you know instinctively

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Speaker 1: there's no coming back from that. So you're saying that

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Speaker 1: hit and it looks like she's being hit on the

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Speaker 1: back of the head. You pointed to the front of

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Speaker 1: the head when you were describing it, But you're saying,

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Speaker 1: on the back of the head that would have fractured

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Speaker 1: the skull. But how does that cause bleeding to the brain,

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Speaker 1: and why is bleeding to the brain deadly?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's two things going on.

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Speaker 7: Number One, she was hid in the front and there's

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Speaker 7: this scientific phenomenon called coop countercoop, and all that means

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Speaker 7: is you get hit in the front, but the brain

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Speaker 7: actually goes back and forth and gets hit in the back.

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Speaker 7: In this particular case, she was getting hit front and back,

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Speaker 7: so it was getting multiple hits.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a sec, hold on to the sec.

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Speaker 1: I want to describe. I want doctor Harvey Castro to

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Speaker 1: explain more slowly what kup contra qup means. H I

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Speaker 1: first encountered in shaking baby syndrome, where the child is

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Speaker 1: shaken like that and the brain literally is bouncing back

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Speaker 1: and forth like a ping pong ball from the back

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Speaker 1: of the head to the front of the head and

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Speaker 1: the baby shaken like that. I hadn't thought about ku

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Speaker 1: contra coup. Doctor Castro, You're right, because her head is

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Speaker 1: being slammed down and looks like she's being yanked by

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Speaker 1: Is it her shoulders or her hair? I think her shoulders,

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Speaker 1: then yank back up, then slamm down again. It's a

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Speaker 1: miracle she's even still alive. But you're saying the coup,

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Speaker 1: countrac coup. The brain will hit the bat, then the front,

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Speaker 1: then the bat, then the front. Okay, let's go from there.

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Speaker 2: And so think of it this way.

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Speaker 7: We have arteries and vessels all over our brain, and

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Speaker 7: so every time we're being hit back and forth, think

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Speaker 7: of as shearing of those arteries and vessels and blood.

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Speaker 2: And to answer your.

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Speaker 7: Second part that just think of it as two parts

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Speaker 7: rubbing on each other and causing a little cut micro

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Speaker 7: cuts on the brain. And then imagine all that swelling

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Speaker 7: that's going on, putting pressure on the brain, literally killing

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Speaker 7: the nerves of the brain. And then that blood is

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Speaker 7: also irritating the brain to the point where it's killing

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Speaker 7: those cells. And so within seconds we're causing that image

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Speaker 7: to this child.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess I had it best ackwards because I thought, yes,

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Speaker 1: everything that you just said. But the brain is damaged

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Speaker 1: like a bruise. When you can kind of feel it

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Speaker 1: rise up. The brain starts to swell when it encounters

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Speaker 1: any type very delicate, any type of hit or trauma,

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Speaker 1: anything will make the brain start swelling up. And the

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Speaker 1: brain swells and it starts touching the skull and there's

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Speaker 1: nowhere for it to go, and that causes the brain injury.

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Speaker 1: Now is that correct?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well you said it's perfectly correct. I'm just going

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Speaker 7: down to the microscopic level. But what you said, there's

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Speaker 7: another mechanism of damage to the brain. Now you're mentioning

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Speaker 7: the pressure, So you're right, our skull.

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Speaker 2: There's how much stas left between our brain.

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Speaker 7: And our skull, and so any kind of swelling, any blood,

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Speaker 7: anything that adds volume into our brain to our skull

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Speaker 7: will cause more irritation. And because of that, we are

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Speaker 7: hurting our brain. And depending where the damage is of

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Speaker 7: our brain, we will see different functions. In this particular case,

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Speaker 7: we saw damage to the frontal low and that basically

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Speaker 7: creates this personality and our memory and different ways of interacting.

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Speaker 7: So that immediately that part if she got forbid, anything

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Speaker 7: bad happens, or let's say she comes back, she's going

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Speaker 7: to have permanent issues with her frontal emotional state and

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Speaker 7: just having conversations with people.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you something, doctor Harvey Castro. Guys, you

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Speaker 1: can find doctor Harvey at Harvey Castro md dot info.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Harvey, I had a young male relative get hit

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Speaker 1: by a woman in a van with three screaming kids

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Speaker 1: in the back. He goes he was on his bike.

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Speaker 1: He goes up in the air, hits her hood and

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Speaker 1: falls on the sidewalk right there. He was airlifted the

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Speaker 1: Scottish righte. Long story short. At the original hospital, they

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Speaker 1: thank the Lord for a brain surgeon that was there

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Speaker 1: immediately put a shunt, a hole in his head with

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Speaker 1: sawed A shunt, which is like a tube was immediately

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Speaker 1: stuck at the top of his head to relieve that

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Speaker 1: swelling pressure so the brain wouldn't be hurt. And that

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Speaker 1: had to be done immediately. Do you know it took

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Speaker 1: him months to be able to learn to walk and

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Speaker 1: spell and speak again. He couldn't even color with the crayon.

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Speaker 1: I remember he picked the crayon up like this and

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Speaker 1: colored the first time he could call it. He didn't

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Speaker 1: remember anything. And I'm just trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: the good good part of that is he completed college

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Speaker 1: with a double major in it and chemistry, I think

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Speaker 1: it was, and that now has a happy life with

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Speaker 1: a family, the works. But this little girl didn't get

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Speaker 1: that treatment, Doctor Castro. She didn't get that treatment at all.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greese, Karen Stark joining me, renowned

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us out of the Manhattan jurisdiction, TV radio

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Speaker 1: trauma expert at Karenstark dot com and in case you

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Speaker 1: try to reach her, it's Karen with a C. Karenstark

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Speaker 1: dot com. Karen, I want you to look at the monitor,

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Speaker 1: and I know how you feel about violence, but force

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Speaker 1: yourself to look at the video again because it's not

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Speaker 1: just this girl, Marnie declue. And again, I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: this ain't her first time in the ring, no way.

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Speaker 1: She's throwing punches like a pro, but look at her behavior.

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Speaker 1: She won't stop. She's punching killy and everybody's just like

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Speaker 1: there are guys standing around letting it happen. Then she

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Speaker 1: races off and attacks another group. You're never gonna believe

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Speaker 1: what Jackie here on the set is telling me, but

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this too. Listen to this,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark. The family, the family of the defendant is

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Speaker 1: assisting she is the victim, claiming she has good character,

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Speaker 1: clean school record, excellent work ethic. She the attacker, is

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Speaker 1: the victim. So Karen Starks, I believe her or my

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Speaker 1: lieon eyes.

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Speaker 8: I think we need to believe what we see, Nancy,

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Speaker 8: which is just outrageous. It's outrageous. You're looking at a

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Speaker 8: culture of aggression, looking at a school system, in my opinion,

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Speaker 8: where this is allowed to happen. Because this isn't the

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Speaker 8: first go round. This girl, woman who's attacking her is

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Speaker 8: obviously somebody who knows what she's doing. She's got her

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Speaker 8: fist raise, she's ready to go. She even after ignores

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Speaker 8: her and starts fighting with other people, and then, like

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Speaker 8: you said, comes back and wants to fight again. No

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Speaker 8: one pays attention to this girl who's there on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Nobody.

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Speaker 8: They're just fighting with each other and ready to keep fighting.

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Speaker 8: So something is going on in the school too. I

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Speaker 8: would suggest that they are allowing this kind of stuff

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Speaker 8: to happen.

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Speaker 1: Now, what about that school statement, Karen Stark Hazelwood ease

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Speaker 1: no responsibility? He kiss my rear end because their statement

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Speaker 1: does not take any responsibility, and it seemingly gives quote

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Speaker 1: sincereous condolences to everyone involved. How about kale Jane, the

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Speaker 1: little girl with brain damage? How about her? I don't

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Speaker 1: know if since little girl is even gonna.

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Speaker 8: Live, they're just making sure they cover all the bases.

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Speaker 8: They're saying that they're sorry for everybody involved. It just

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Speaker 8: doesn't make any sense. They want to stay out of trouble.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear Sydney Sumner narcut five from

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Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. Listen.

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Speaker 9: Kaylee Gane is on her back being hit in the

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Speaker 9: head when the unnamed female she is fighting puts her

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Speaker 9: weight on the smaller Gain and proceeds to pull Kaye

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Speaker 9: Gaine's head about two feet above the concrete, then slams

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Speaker 9: Gain's head into the cement. The first hit renders Kaye

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Speaker 9: Gane unable to defend herself as her assailant quickly pulls

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Speaker 9: her back up off the concrete, lifts her head up

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Speaker 9: further than the first time, and smashes the head of

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Speaker 9: Kaylee Gane back into the cement again. The sound of

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Speaker 9: the back of her head hitting concrete is such as

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Speaker 9: sickening thud. Observers realize something terrible has happened. The unnamed attacker,

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Speaker 9: as well as those who have observed the beating, move

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Speaker 9: on to other fights taking place, while kalle Gane is

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Speaker 9: left alone unconscious on the pavement. As EMT's arrived, Gain

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Speaker 9: is convulsing.

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Speaker 1: What is that doctor Harvey Castro, why did Keela go

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Speaker 1: into convulsions? What are convulsions? Exactly?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Unfortunately, to your point where we talked about this,

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Speaker 7: the irritation of the blood into the brain is causing

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Speaker 7: the electricity that we have in our brain to go

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Speaker 7: start firing. And when it starts firing over and over,

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Speaker 7: it's causing us to have these seizure type convulsions that

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Speaker 7: they witness.

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Speaker 2: And so that tells me two things.

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Speaker 7: One, she was already gleaning. Two she was to your

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Speaker 7: point again, she was having increased pressure in her brain

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Speaker 7: to the point where it was swishing down on these

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Speaker 7: neurons to create this this charge, to create this seizures

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Speaker 7: like activity.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now, Barry Hutchinson, senior former law enforcement officer,

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Speaker 1: owner of Barry and Associates Investigative Services in Kansas City. Barry,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I'm sure that both

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Speaker 1: you and Chris Slusher are very familiar with this area.

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Speaker 1: Mary Hutchinson, What in the hay are they saying they

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Speaker 1: don't know if they should charge this This girl that

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Speaker 1: is not a girl. When I think of a girl,

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Speaker 1: I think of a you know, nineteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: This is a full on woman and she's a violent,

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Speaker 1: vicious and aggressive. What are they talking about? They don't

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Speaker 1: know if they're charging her as an adult.

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Speaker 10: Well, Nancy, first of all, I'm going to call it

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Speaker 10: like I see it, and I don't care who it offends.

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Speaker 10: This girl's aug she's a thug. Yes, yeah, she's a thug.

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Speaker 10: And if that, you know, if that alienates anybody for

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Speaker 10: me saying that, you know, they're just sway it is.

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Speaker 10: Anybody can watch that video and see exactly what kind

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Speaker 10: of person this is attacking this young lady. And if

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Speaker 10: I was still in law enforcement and was prosecuting this

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Speaker 10: case myself, i' would charge you with its attempted murder. It

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Speaker 10: would just be aggravated assault, because to me, it goes

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Speaker 10: beyond aggravated assault when she continually founds this girl's head

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Speaker 10: into the ground like a like a water melon, you know,

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Speaker 10: just beating it until it just busts over. And that's

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Speaker 10: exactly what it sounds like. It sounds like somebody taking

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Speaker 10: a melon and dropping it on the concrete it's sitting.

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Speaker 1: Mary Hutchison, you took the words right out of my mouth.

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Speaker 1: A she's a thug, But B I have a note here,

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Speaker 1: Aga salt, no attempted murder, Yes, because an agasalt puts

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Speaker 1: someone the victim and immediate fear of serious bodily injury,

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Speaker 1: immediate fear of serious body injury. For instance, if I

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Speaker 1: pull a thirty eight on you and I don't even

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Speaker 1: pull the trigger, but if I put you in immediate

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Speaker 1: fear of serious body injury under the law, that is

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Speaker 1: an aga salt. Here, You've got a repeated beat down.

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Speaker 1: Each thud of her head is another charge in my mind,

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Speaker 1: that is not self defense. This attacker is not the victim.

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Speaker 1: What what is upside down? What is going on in

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction?

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Speaker 10: Barry Well, you know, unfortunately, Nancy, it's a continuation of

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Speaker 10: the former DiscT attorney over there, Ken Gardner, in the

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Speaker 10: way that she handled a lot of things over there

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Speaker 10: and basically just refused to prosecute anybody. I'll go a

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Speaker 10: step further. I would classify this as a hate crime.

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Speaker 10: You know what would people say, you know, the al

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Speaker 10: Sharptons of the world that would say, if the coin

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Speaker 10: were flipped and it was the white girl that got,

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Speaker 10: you know, the best of the black girl, they'd be

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Speaker 10: running up and down margining you know, carrying on about

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Speaker 10: stuff you know, about a black child being.

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Speaker 1: Abused, you know, But if you take that factor out

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Speaker 1: of it, this is a full on aggravated assault. Chris

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Speaker 1: Slusher joining me, high profile Missouri attorney at mid Missouri

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Speaker 1: Lawyers dot com. Chris again, thank you to you and

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Speaker 1: Barry for being with us. Chris, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about when juveniles get treated as adults. I

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Speaker 1: want to tell you the first juvenile I tried for

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Speaker 1: murder was thirteen. Was I happy about it?

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Speaker 10: No?

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Speaker 1: I'm not happy about it. But this was a guy

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Speaker 1: that was six ' three. He broke into, well, he

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Speaker 1: didn't break into he busted into a pawn shop, and

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Speaker 1: he gunned down three people, leaving one dead and one

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Speaker 1: forever on a catheter in a wheelchair. Okay, so what

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Speaker 1: was I supposed to do? Give him eighteen months in

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Speaker 1: GV jail and everybody come buy y'all holding hands every

432
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: afternoon at four o'clock. No, no, uh huh. So I'm

433
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: not happy if thirteen year old was tried for murder?

434
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: Was it the right thing to do? Yes? Did it

435
00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: taste good going down?

436
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 8: No?

437
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: It didn't. But it was still justice. This is the

438
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: way it works and correct me if I'm wrong in

439
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: that jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions, there are seven deadly sins

440
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: called DFA's designated felony, attempts assaults. The designated felonies are,

441
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: for instance, murder, rape, armed robbery, trafficking drugs, our sun,

442
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: child molestation, and aggravated assault. You will get transferred to

443
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: adult court for the seven designated felonies. Now, normally there's

444
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: a bind over hearing where the case is bound or

445
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: transferred over from juvenile court to superior or adult court.

446
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: Tell me how does it work in your jurisdiction. How

447
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: am I going to get Marnie's de clue prosecuted as

448
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: an adult?

449
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 5: Well, it works in a similar way. The most likely charged,

450
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 5: based on what I've observed under Missouri law is probably

451
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 5: the soul first degree, which is attempting to kill or

452
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 5: knowingly causing serious physical injury. And so what will happen

453
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 5: is the juvenile office will make a charging decision.

454
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: What the juvenile office makes this decision? Uh oh, we're

455
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: all up the creek without a paddle, because everybody knows.

456
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: In juvenile you bring in psychologists, you all sit around,

457
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: no offense care and start you sit around and go, wow,

458
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: why did this happen? Was the defendant in an unfortunate

459
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: setting as a child. That may all be true, and

460
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: I don't like it, but that does not help the victim.

461
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: What the juvenile court decides?

462
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 5: The juvenile court decides the charge, and then we have

463
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 5: a system of its charge assault first says you've described

464
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: that then automatically requires what we call a certification here,

465
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 5: and then the things that you just described that you

466
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 5: don't care for about the juvenile process will take place.

467
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 5: There will be background reports and those types of things,

468
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 5: and then a judge will make a decision about whether

469
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 5: the case will then be certified as an adult case

470
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 5: and be transferred into the prosecute attorney's office in the

471
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 5: adult court.

472
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: So who makes that ultimate decision as to whether this

473
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: girl Marnie's declue is going to be treated as an adult?

474
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: Who's making that decision.

475
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 5: Judging the juvenile court, which is it's always the most

476
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 5: friendly defense venue for us.

477
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: So a juvenile judge is going to make this decision.

478
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: It's not bound over in the district attorney decides.

479
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 5: No, the juvenile judge makes the decision about a certification.

480
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 2: As an adult.

481
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't like that at all. And now we've

482
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: got moanings and groanings. Alectis torush, Please tell me it's

483
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: not true that the attacker's family is saying she's the victim,

484
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: that she was lured there and didn't know anything about

485
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: a fight. I mean, listen, when I'm with the twins,

486
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: Alexis and you have a young boy, if I smell trouble,

487
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: I get them out of there. You know how many

488
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: times I want to have road rage or bless somebody out,

489
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: but I don't do it because it's not safe. They

490
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: are more important than me feeling better after an incident

491
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: of some sort. My point is nobody lured her there.

492
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: That is a lie, and if she saw a fight brewing,

493
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: she could have left.

494
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: What people are saying is that the girls had they

495
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: were going to fight, they were together, but they Kaylee

496
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: attacked first. They're saying that she charged at the other girl,

497
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: and that's why the other girl said that she had

498
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: to defend herself. That's what they are saying. That's the

499
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: excuse that's coming out for this. They Kaylee charged first,

500
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: she threw the first punch, and so therefore that this

501
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: absolute beat was justified because she was defending herself. That

502
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: is what their side is saying.

503
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So with that theory, Barry Hudgeson's senior former

504
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: veteran law enforcement now runs Burying Associates Investigative Services. Barry,

505
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: in that scenario that Alexis Tereschuk is trying to feed

506
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: me with a silver spoon, I'm not swallowing Alexis.

507
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 8: Just know that.

508
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: You could slap me, Barry, and then I could pull

509
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: out my ouzy and just shoot you right in the head,

510
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: and that would be fine because you slapped me first.

511
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 10: That's not right now the level of threat, and once

512
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 10: the level of threat is stopped to words, it's not

513
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 10: necessary to escalate the amount of force that goes out

514
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 10: the window. So I don't see I don't see that here.

515
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 10: What I see is the young lady that performed to

516
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 10: beat down. I see her as being the definitely being

517
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 10: there over zettous.

518
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: Are you calling her a young lady? She looks like

519
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: a professional fighter. She like a professional kickbox fighter. She's

520
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 1: using it all wrestling, moves, punches and footwork like a butterfly. Guys,

521
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: I want you to hear our friend Nicole Parton Crime online.

522
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 11: According to a GoFundMe fundraiser set up by a family friend,

523
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 11: Kaylee Gain was left alone on the ground to convulse

524
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 11: before EMT's arrived on the scene. Police and rescue squad

525
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 11: units arrive. Kaylee Gain is taken to the hospital where

526
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 11: she is listed in critical condition with a skull fracture,

527
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 11: frontal lobe damage, major brain bleeding, and swelling. The extent

528
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 11: of brain damage will not be determined until Kaylee Gain wakes.

529
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: The grandmother is telling us that little Kelly's head was

530
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: smashed into a cement concrete. Rudd and the doctors are

531
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: saying that they won't know the extent of the brain

532
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: damage until the little girl wakes up. To doctor Harvey

533
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: Castro joining us, harveycastromd dot info, Doctor Harvey, is that true,

534
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: they can't tell any level of brain damage until Kelly

535
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: wakes up.

536
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: To some extent, you can find out very minimal.

537
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 7: You can put some electrodes of the brain and see

538
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 7: what activity is going on, but you really can't test

539
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 7: anything until you actually speak to the patient and see

540
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 7: what they're able to say. It's true, and unfortunately it's

541
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 7: a waiting game. We're just literally just waiting and we're

542
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 7: doing everything we can to minimize the damage, like you

543
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 7: said earlier, opening the skull or leading the pressure, but

544
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 7: we really won't know what's going on until we actually

545
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 7: have a conversation with her.

546
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: I know a little bit more, Dr Harvey Castro. According

547
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: to the family, we have learned that Kelly suffered, as

548
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: you pointed out earlier at skull fracture in frontal lobe damage,

549
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: which goes back to what you were describing as the

550
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: coup contract coup because in the video you can see

551
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: her head is being slammed down on cement from behind,

552
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: but the frontal lobe damp. There is frontal lobe damage

553
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: as well. And of course I'm not an MD, but

554
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 1: I assume that means the front of your brain major

555
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: brain bleeding and swelling. Does any of that change your opinion?

556
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

557
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 7: Unfortunately I have I'm hopeful that she turns the corner,

558
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 7: but I'm worried that this is going to be her

559
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 7: unfortunately now.

560
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: And what about Alexis Tereshchuk. All the little harpies gathered

561
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: around not doing a thing. One girl did try to

562
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: pull Marnie de Clue off the victim and the clue

563
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: swung at her as well, but the others were not

564
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: trying to help. They were videoing in in jeering, and

565
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: then they leave the girl to bring blead on the road,

566
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: and passers by, adults driving do nothing.

567
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: That's one girl tried to help her, her friend with

568
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: scrimmy get off of her and she pulled her, and

569
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 3: then another girl jumped on her and attacked her and

570
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 3: started throwing a punch at her.

571
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: So she did throw up.

572
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 3: Nobody stopped. Nobody tried to help this at all. Once

573
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 3: the vicious meeting. Once she started pounding her on the ground,

574
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: even one two, multiple times, nobody stepped in. And then

575
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: there are all these fights going on all around it.

576
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: And then you can see the girl, Kaylee's lying on

577
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 3: the ground. Her attacker gets up and goes and tries

578
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,479
Speaker 3: to defend a boy saying keep your hands off of him,

579
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: and dragging someone else, and then just standing around. No

580
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: one helps this girl. No one goes up to her,

581
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 3: even her friend that had tried to help. I don't

582
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 3: know if it's her friend. Even the other girl that

583
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 3: tried to help her doesn't go back and try to

584
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: see what's going on at all. Nobody helped this little

585
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 3: girl as she was lying.

586
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 2: On the ground.

587
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: For everyone that wants this defendant, this attacker to be

588
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: treated as as a juvenile and get out of Juvi

589
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: jail as it's called, it's more like a dorm setting

590
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: in a few months. You take her home to your

591
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: home and let her be around your children, because I

592
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: don't want her. I wouldn't let her within ten feet

593
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: of either one of my twins. Oh no, So think

594
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: long and hard before you advocate this girl getting out,

595
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: and again, I can guarantee you this is not her

596
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: first time throwing a punch. Do you want your voice

597
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: to be heard? Because I do. The district Attorney is

598
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: Gabriel Gore g r. E at three one four six

599
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: two two four nine four one. I've got a funny

600
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: feeling this is going to go over Gore's head because

601
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: I see those signs of Gore doing anything appropriate. The

602
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: Attorney General is Andrew Bailey five seven three seven five

603
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: one three three to one. Or if you don't want

604
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: your number associated with the call, you can write Consumer

605
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: dot Help at Ago dot mo dot gov. We've been

606
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: assured a hearing will occur within a week to determine

607
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: if this attacker Marnise Deuclue will be treated as an adult.

608
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: Right now, all we can do is pray. Pray for

609
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 1: this girl, Killie gain tipline eight sixty six three seven

610
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: one tips eight six six three seven one eight four

611
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: seven seven. What if anything, do you know about the

612
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: suspect's movements before, during, and after? Did she brag? Did

613
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: she go on social media and brag? Did she talk

614
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: about what happened? If so, what did she say? What

615
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: does she do with her bloody clothes? What were her

616
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: movements and actions following this attack? And remember, Kelly Gaines

617
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: will likely be left if she lives with permanent brain damage.

618
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,