1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,320
Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy. They really do think

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: that they can't move through life happily unless they forgive.

3
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: They do feel like they're punishing themselves. Whereas the way

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,119
Speaker 1: I see it, I'm like, well, the original definition of

5
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,040
Speaker 1: forgiveness is essentially like I'm absolving you. I'm telling you,

6
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: oh no, that's okay, and sometimes it's not okay, and

7
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,200
Speaker 1: it's okay for me to not say it's okay. I

8
00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: started to realize that not being an expert isn't a liability,

9
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 1: it's a real gift. If we don't know something about

10
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 1: ourselves at this point in our life, it's probably because

11
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die before you die,

12
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 1: then you can really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.

13
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: I thought I was insane, Yeah, and I didn't know

14
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,160
Speaker 1: what to do because there was no Internet. I don't know, man,

15
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel like everything is hard. Hey, y'all,

16
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 1: my name is Kat. I'm a human first and a

17
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 1: license therapist second, and right now I'm inviting you into

18
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: conversations that I hope encourage you to become more curious

19
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,399
Speaker 1: and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the world. Around you.

20
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 1: Welcome to you need Therapy. Hey, guys, it's Kat here,

21
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: and today I have a fun episode for y'all with

22
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: not one, but two guests. Their names are Joe Lenta

23
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: Greenberg and Kristin Miser, and they consider themselves vice critics,

24
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: which really caught my attention and made me say, hey,

25
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,920
Speaker 1: I need to talk to these people asap. Kristen and

26
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,959
Speaker 1: Joe Lenta spent years of their lives living by and

27
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,680
Speaker 1: critiquing advice from self help books that they then talked

28
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 1: about on a podcast called By the Book. They literally

29
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 1: would read a self help book and then live by

30
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,959
Speaker 1: that book for two weeks at a time, and they

31
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: did hundreds of books. And now they just launched their

32
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,600
Speaker 1: new podcast, How to Be Fine, which is a half

33
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 1: advice show and half cultural critique where they dissect the

34
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: inner workings of the betterment industry while offering up some

35
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: and by along the way, which makes a perfect pairing

36
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,560
Speaker 1: on Unique Therapy, because you guys know how sometimes I

37
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 1: feel about all of the endless information out there that

38
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 1: changes every second, and so I can't wait for you

39
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: to hear my conversation with them the things that I

40
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,679
Speaker 1: asked them. I just felt very interesting, and it was

41
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,000
Speaker 1: really good to get a perspective from two people who

42
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,959
Speaker 1: went into this project with two different mindsets and came

43
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 1: out with it with two different mindsets. So I hope

44
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,720
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this conversation. I hope you learned something. I

45
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 1: hope you resonate with something. Check out their podcasts How

46
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,440
Speaker 1: to Be Fine wherever you listen to podcasts, and I

47
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,080
Speaker 1: linked their Instagram handles and a link to their podcast

48
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 1: in the show notes, so you can go head to

49
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: the show notes to connect with them whatever way you

50
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,000
Speaker 1: want to connect with them after hearing this conversation. Now,

51
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it. Here it is. I'm so

52
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 1: excited to talk to you guys. I've already listened or

53
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 1: started listening to your new podcast, How to Be Fine.

54
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 1: One of the reasons I wanted to speak to you

55
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 1: guys specifically is I'm a therapist and I started this podcast,

56
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 1: and I feel like I've become part of a problem

57
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 1: by doing that, and I have this desire to help,

58
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 1: but then I have this desire to not exploit people.

59
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 1: And now I have this new frustration with the amount

60
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,520
Speaker 1: of content and like false content. I was listening to

61
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,920
Speaker 1: your episode about the beef diet, and I'm just like

62
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 1: this just like crazy content out there, but everybody wants help.

63
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 1: I am getting ahead of myself. But before I get

64
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: ahead of myself, I want to start with just you guys,

65
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,360
Speaker 1: introing a little bit about who you are. And I'm

66
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 1: curious how you got together to start the first project

67
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,640
Speaker 1: that you did with by the book, and now how

68
00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: it sounds like that's transformed into the How to Be Fine.

69
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 1: But I just want to hear the origin story of

70
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: how you guys came together and kind who you are

71
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,160
Speaker 1: in your backgrounds, so then I can ask all my questions.

72
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 1: Of course, this is Jolenta's speaking. By the way, Kristen

73
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 1: and I met like a decade ago now working in

74
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 1: a newsroom for a news radio show, and Kristen was

75
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 1: the pop culture critic and reporter and I was just

76
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 1: the administrative assistant. And we became friends because she was

77
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,240
Speaker 1: the only person in the newsroom who like wanted to

78
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,920
Speaker 1: talk about subjects that weren't dry, sort of you know,

79
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: fun things, movies, books, the latest like Real Housewives franchise

80
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 1: like so Kristen and I became fast friends, and I

81
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 1: was sort of a mess at the time I just

82
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: finished acting conservatory, I was working as an administrative assistant,

83
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 1: I was teaching, I was deciding to become a stand

84
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 1: up comedian, and so one of my jobs at the

85
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,239
Speaker 1: newsroom was to get all the books that the show

86
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,440
Speaker 1: was sent every day, and shows get pitched tons of books.

87
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,679
Speaker 1: They get sent books from publishers, from authors everywhere, and

88
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 1: most of the books don't get covered on the news.

89
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,479
Speaker 1: Usually it's like, you know, a big historical biography or something,

90
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,000
Speaker 1: or some huge newsmaker wrote a book. Those books get covered,

91
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: but the rest of them just get put on a

92
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: shelf for people to like grab for last minute Mother's

93
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,279
Speaker 1: Day gifts and stuff. And I began hoarding all the

94
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,280
Speaker 1: self help books because I was like, one of these

95
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 1: free books, it should definitely have all the answers because

96
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,159
Speaker 1: I'm feeling a little lost. And then I guess, because

97
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 1: I'm an exhibitionist, I was like, what if I recorded

98
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,520
Speaker 1: myself like going through all these books. And then I

99
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 1: was like, I'm a little too willing to go like

100
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,479
Speaker 1: gung ho for each book, Like I could end up

101
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,920
Speaker 1: joining a cult by accident, So like, maybe I should

102
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 1: have someone with a bit more of a critical I

103
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,919
Speaker 1: someone who's less into self help try them out with me,

104
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,160
Speaker 1: and that was Kristen and Kristen is a bit more

105
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,720
Speaker 1: of a self help skeptic. And once we had joined forces,

106
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 1: we started our show by the Book, which is a

107
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: podcast where it's sort of a reality show made self

108
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: help book club, where Kristen and I lived strictly by

109
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 1: the rules of self help books for two weeks at

110
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,479
Speaker 1: a time and the rest is history. And then we

111
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 1: ended up living by close to a hundred self help books.

112
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,840
Speaker 1: We have done everything from you know, manifest our dreams,

113
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,920
Speaker 1: to redecorate our homes to make them more in line

114
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,719
Speaker 1: with our values, to go out and try and practice

115
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,160
Speaker 1: community care in the world, to try to transform our relationships.

116
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,600
Speaker 1: We've done so many different things based on what self

117
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 1: help books have demanded of us. We've even lived by

118
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 1: the book How to Be Famous by Heidi Montag and

119
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,240
Speaker 1: Spencer Pratt. We lived by one of Dolly Partons, so

120
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 1: want to go to your home Statecatherine. We have lived

121
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 1: by so many self help books, and then we reached

122
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,160
Speaker 1: a certain point where we thought, you know what, we

123
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 1: want to expand beyond self help books. We want to

124
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 1: expand to bigger conversations about wellness, the wellness industry, about

125
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 1: health and happiness and so on. We want to talk

126
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 1: about things that are trending on social media right now,

127
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 1: not what's going to be published in a book two

128
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 1: years from now after someone's going through the whole editorial

129
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 1: and publishing process. So that's why we're doing our new

130
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 1: show now, How to Be Fine, And on that show,

131
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: we are able to go into a lot of different

132
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 1: directions and look at what looks good, what doesn't look good,

133
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,360
Speaker 1: what's being written by therapists about these topics, what's being

134
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 1: written by investigative journalists about these topics, what our own

135
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 1: experiences are with these topics. So our first couple episodes,

136
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 1: one was about life coaches, and on that episode we

137
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 1: actually brought on somebody who had been to a life

138
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 1: coach and had a good experience, but we also talked

139
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 1: about the lack of regulation in they and all of

140
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,920
Speaker 1: the abuses. And in the second episode, as you said,

141
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 1: we talked about the whole beef diet. Yeah. So I

142
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 1: love this idea that you have like a skeptic and

143
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 1: then somebody who's like, I'll do anything, and I imagine

144
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,840
Speaker 1: that is just a good dynamic. I have to give

145
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: you this piece of information because I was thinking about this.

146
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 1: When I was I listened to the Life Coach episode

147
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 1: because that's something that as a therapist, I will say,

148
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,600
Speaker 1: there's a time and a place for a coach. There

149
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: are really good coaches out there that I have recommended

150
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 1: to my own clients where I'm like, you need something

151
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 1: a little different than what I'm doing now, or you've

152
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 1: moved through this thing and now you need this kind

153
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: of guidance that I don't give. But what's funny is

154
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,960
Speaker 1: I believe that I also think coaches can be really exploitive,

155
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: and I also think I agree that they can be

156
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 1: tricked into starting and getting into that industry. But that's

157
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 1: coming from personal experience. Who was the one that said

158
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 1: they contemplated being a life coach would be Okay? I

159
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 1: was actually okay, that is so crazy. Okay. So back

160
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 1: in the day when I was in school, like grad

161
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,920
Speaker 1: school to become a therapist, I had this like crisis

162
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 1: of identity. This was in like two thousand and twelve, thirteen,

163
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,439
Speaker 1: one of those years, and I was like, I don't

164
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 1: want to be a therapist. I want to be a

165
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 1: health coach, Like I want to help people, and so

166
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 1: I don't need to go to grad school and spend

167
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,679
Speaker 1: all this money, even though I was already signed up

168
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: and spending all the money. And I signed up for

169
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,320
Speaker 1: a coaching course, like I did the whole thing and

170
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,840
Speaker 1: paid it. I wasn't that it was maybe a couple

171
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to get through this whole thing, and it

172
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,560
Speaker 1: was nine months and I did not do one assignment.

173
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,080
Speaker 1: I did not watch one lecture. I didn't do anything,

174
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,560
Speaker 1: and I just like found a way to finagle my

175
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 1: way through everything and then got certified. I will tell

176
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 1: you I never want to use to this at all.

177
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 1: I never did any health coaching, but I tell you

178
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 1: that because I am certified, I think there's probably things

179
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 1: I would have had to keep doing. But I got certified.

180
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 1: I did not learn one thing in that program. They

181
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,839
Speaker 1: gave me like worksheets to use with people and helped

182
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,080
Speaker 1: me like, okay, in a first session, you do this

183
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,559
Speaker 1: with a client. But I had not learned one piece

184
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,320
Speaker 1: of information on what I was coaching and what gives

185
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,280
Speaker 1: me the right to know this stuff. And it was

186
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,319
Speaker 1: a health coaching program, not just like a coaching Thank god,

187
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,320
Speaker 1: I was still in my grad program. But I learned

188
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 1: through that experience that really that program. If I was

189
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 1: not in the program I was in and with the

190
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 1: advisors and people that gave me the information that I had,

191
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 1: I would have really hurt people because I would have

192
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: been going out there with this is how I think

193
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,680
Speaker 1: you should eat, or this is what I think is

194
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 1: good for your body. And really I could have taught

195
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 1: people how to have an eating disorder. And I share

196
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,439
Speaker 1: that because a coach is really great if they are

197
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,199
Speaker 1: in a certain space. But this can be true for

198
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,559
Speaker 1: a therapist too. But there's I think one of y'all said,

199
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 1: there's no regulation, there's nothing anybody. I don't have to

200
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: be certified to be a coach, but that gives me

201
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 1: like extra like OO credentials. But to be a therapist,

202
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: it's grueling and excruciating. Now there can still be bad therapist.

203
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 1: I totally believe that. But to graduate, we also had

204
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: to have the approval of our professors and advisers so

205
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 1: I could graduate. But if they did not think I

206
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 1: was fit to be a therapist, I would get a

207
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 1: different degree. I would get like a human development degree

208
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,080
Speaker 1: versus a human development counseling degree. And so I just

209
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 1: wanted to share that because I thought that was so fascinating,

210
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,080
Speaker 1: just that that's what I think. That was the first

211
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: episode y'all did. Oh, we should have had you as

212
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,560
Speaker 1: a guest on, because that would be fascinating to hear

213
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,440
Speaker 1: somebody who's actually gone through it, who can attest to

214
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,920
Speaker 1: the fact that maybe I wasn't even qualified to do

215
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: at all. I was not even when the funny thing

216
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,600
Speaker 1: is when I started to be a therapist, I still

217
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,520
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not qualified for this, and I wasn't.

218
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 1: I had to have supervision for every so many client

219
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: hours I had, I had to work under a person,

220
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 1: I had to get I had to take all these tests,

221
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: and so I just think it's interesting where like, if

222
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,679
Speaker 1: you are a well sound minded human being, there can

223
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,719
Speaker 1: be really great coaches out there, but it's it's really risky,

224
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 1: and I think it speaks into the some of the

225
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,480
Speaker 1: stuff I want to talk to you about because it

226
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 1: seems like now and maybe you have more information because

227
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: you've done so many of these You've read to so

228
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,240
Speaker 1: many of these books. To me, it feels like, right now,

229
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: all of the sudden, there is a million things out there.

230
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 1: Do this, do this, do this, do this beyond this, diet,

231
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,320
Speaker 1: manifest this thing, do this meditation, do this workout program,

232
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 1: And like, I get very overwhelmed because I think I'm

233
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 1: more like you Joel into it. I'm like, I'll do it,

234
00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: Like if it's gonna do it, this will fix it. Yeah.

235
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: And I've become very skeptical because I'm like, it feels

236
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 1: like there's a million things out there. They all kind

237
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,320
Speaker 1: of promise kind of the same thing, and it's always changing.

238
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 1: So I want to hear a little bit. It's kind

239
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,560
Speaker 1: of an open ended question, but like what has that

240
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 1: been like for you as just a human in the

241
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,560
Speaker 1: world getting all this information and then a human who's

242
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 1: diving into all I mean, you have to have so

243
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 1: many things in your brain from all of those books

244
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:38,040
Speaker 1: you've read, So what was just that process like taking

245
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,040
Speaker 1: in all that content and then trying all of that.

246
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 1: For me, it's hard to sometimes remember after having taken

247
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,120
Speaker 1: it all in, what rules are mine and what rules?

248
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 1: Like I've read where it's like, oh no, but like

249
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,560
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have this much water by this time

250
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,640
Speaker 1: in the morning, And I'm like, who said that? Like

251
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 1: a doctor or like some random guy who decided he

252
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: was like an expert in mournings, you know, And so

253
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: it's it's like you're saying, everything is so oversaturated that

254
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 1: it's hard to remember sometimes having exposed myself to so

255
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 1: many people's like rules for themselves, like which ones are mine,

256
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 1: but also being exposed to so many different kinds of

257
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 1: rules people have for themselves, it's been interesting to be

258
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,600
Speaker 1: able to pick and choose what does work for you

259
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 1: and to see like what sticks around, Like I always

260
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: fold my socks the way Marie Condo told me too

261
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 1: after we lived by her book in season one of

262
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 1: By the Book, Kristen doesn't, I don't think, but like

263
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,440
Speaker 1: that stuck for me and it works, and like, you

264
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 1: know a few other things, what about you, Christen? Living

265
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: by all the books? I think for me has been

266
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 1: much more exhausting than for Joe Lenta, because I am very,

267
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: very or I shouldn't say more exhausting, I should say

268
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 1: it's exhausting for me in a different way. Joe Lenta

269
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: goes in enthusiastically wanting to believe, you know, the promises,

270
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 1: and I'm somebody who goes through everything with a fine

271
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 1: tooth comb and follows every tiny mic rule rule down

272
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 1: to the letter, and Jolenta likes to follow the rules

273
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,280
Speaker 1: to the spirit of the book, not necessarily down to

274
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, every you know clause you know subclause C

275
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 1: underneath it, which is what I'm doing with everything, And

276
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 1: to me that can be very exhausting, and sometimes it

277
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 1: means I'm putting in forty hours a week into doing

278
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 1: something with sucks, where Joelent is just rolling them and

279
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 1: putting them away. So it has been at certain times

280
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,680
Speaker 1: very very exhausting to me. But then also I mean,

281
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 1: I think that means Joelent and I have gotten different

282
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 1: things out of each of the books we've lived by,

283
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,600
Speaker 1: and in some cases have had totally different criticisms of

284
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 1: the books because of how we follow them too. That

285
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 1: is so interesting to me, because you both having your

286
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 1: own experience of because there's not a one size fits all, right, Like,

287
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: there's probably some things that work for y'all and some

288
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 1: things that you're like, I love that, and you're like

289
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 1: I hated that, So I like what you said about

290
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: it was hard to differentiate between like what is my

291
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 1: rule and what am I just doing because I read

292
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,120
Speaker 1: it somewhere and I forgot it that I read it.

293
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 1: What were some of the things specifically for each of y'all.

294
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 1: And I want to preface this for anybody who's listening

295
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: that I like this kind of idea that we're talking about,

296
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,720
Speaker 1: where you get to take an information and you get

297
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 1: to sit with it and then you get to choose

298
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 1: that works for me, I'm going to keep doing that,

299
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 1: or like, I think that worked for my friend, but

300
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel true to me and how I want

301
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: to live my life. And that wasn't because I think

302
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially in my experience as a therapist,

303
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 1: people want like, what is the answer to this thing?

304
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,600
Speaker 1: I have anxiety? What is the answer? And I'm like, well,

305
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 1: there is not an answer to anxiety. I don't even

306
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 1: know what that question means, Like, I don't know what

307
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 1: that means. And so when people are looking for answers,

308
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 1: really what I want them to identify as what you're

309
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 1: kind of talking about is what feels right to me.

310
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 1: So can you tell both of y'all tell me separately, Like,

311
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,320
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that you started doing

312
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 1: in this process that you're like, this works for me

313
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,679
Speaker 1: and this was really helpful. And then some things that

314
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: you're like this did the opposite, even though I saw

315
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 1: other people have good experiences with it, and maybe some

316
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: of those conflict with you guys. Oh totally. I'm like,

317
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:31,280
Speaker 1: where to begin? Do you want me to start off

318
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,239
Speaker 1: to a one time start? Yeah? Okay, I'll give an

319
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 1: example of one that I definitely got a lot of

320
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 1: blowback many times when we were living by books where

321
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 1: a lot of authors say that you need to forgive

322
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,400
Speaker 1: and forgiveness as a way to not live in anger.

323
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: To you know, when you're choosing not to forgive, you're

324
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 1: really punishing yourself, not the perpetrator. And I'm like, great,

325
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 1: if you need to forgive to move on in life,

326
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: if you need to forgive to be happy, if you

327
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 1: need to forgive in order to move through life without

328
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 1: having the albatross of anger around your neck, go for it.

329
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 1: I don't need to. I'm totally fine not forgiving. And

330
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about every situation that you know, there's

331
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,639
Speaker 1: most things I will most things, I'll forgive most things people.

332
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 1: You know, we hurt each other inadvertently, of course, I

333
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 1: want to be forgiven when I do those things. I

334
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 1: want to forgive others. But then there are some transgressions

335
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 1: where I'm like, no, what you did there was unspeakable

336
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,120
Speaker 1: and it will not be forgiven. But it doesn't hold

337
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,479
Speaker 1: me back from enjoying life. And I don't care that

338
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 1: over a third of the self help authors whose books

339
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: we live by want me to forgive. I'm totally fine

340
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 1: not forgiving. And other people have a different approach to forgiveness.

341
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 1: They really do think that they can't move through life

342
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 1: happily unless they forgive. They do feel like they're punishing themselves.

343
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: Whereas the way I see it, I'm like, well, the

344
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,679
Speaker 1: original definition of forgiveness is essentially like I'm absolving you.

345
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, oh no, that's okay, and sometimes it's

346
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 1: not okay, and it's okay for me to not say

347
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: it's okay. I'm so glad that you said that. That's

348
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 1: something that I feel very passionately about the forced forgiveness situation.

349
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 1: It's you here. I don't know if you've said this,

350
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: but like I've heard a lot of like, when you

351
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 1: don't forgive somebody, it's like drinking poison. And to me,

352
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, no to drinking poison expecting them to die. Yes, Yes,

353
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 1: that's what it is. Yes, And I'm like okay, but

354
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 1: if you I just think of this as like in

355
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 1: extremes is the easiest way to describe it. But if

356
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: I've been abused by somebody, it's okay for me to say,

357
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna say I forgive you. It's you, it's fine,

358
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 1: let's move on. Like to me, forgiving somebody in that situation,

359
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 1: depending on the person, that can feel like poison. And

360
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,439
Speaker 1: so I'm really glad you said that. And what I

361
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 1: hear underneath of that is if giving options, like if

362
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: somebody needs to forgive in a certain situation or if

363
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 1: that feels right in a certain situation, totally to do that.

364
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: And if it doesn't feel okay in a certain situation,

365
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: it feels harmful to me, I have the ability to

366
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: say that doesn't fit. So I love that. Was there

367
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: anything that you loved, like any book or experience or

368
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: just activity you did from a book that you were like,

369
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: I got to keep doing this. This has changed my life. Oh.

370
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: I always love books that don't just look inward, but

371
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 1: that look outward. And so some authors call it community care.

372
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: When we're doing things that are making the world a

373
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: slightly better place. For example, you know, helping somebody carry

374
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: their groceries if they're being held back by those helping

375
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: a neighbor shovel their driveway, walking around and cleaning up

376
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: rubbish in the neighborhood. Because you know, the whole philosophy

377
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 1: around community care is really that maybe some of the

378
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 1: things that are causing us to feel alone in the

379
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: world or feel anxious aren't just because we have the

380
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: wrong mindset. It's not because we're not thinking positively enough.

381
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes the reason we feel anxious and unhappy in the

382
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 1: world is because our world needs to be helped a

383
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: little bit, because our world is messed up, and to

384
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: go out there and maybe fix some of those things,

385
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: fix the pollution, fix the inequality, become more politically engaged.

386
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: Sometimes being involved in those things can make us feel

387
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: way better than writing out a list of the top

388
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: three things I'm grateful for when I wake up in

389
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: the morning. I agree. A lot of clients will come

390
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: in and say, I have let's just go with anxiety,

391
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: because I said that before, like, I have anxiety and

392
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: I need tools and whatever to again fix that anxiety

393
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: and make that anxiety go away. And I sometimes just

394
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: look at them and I'm like, well, I feel like

395
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: maybe you might have anxiety because the world that you're

396
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: kind of living in, speaking of like pandemic. We're talking

397
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: about your trip natural as your last trip before the pandemic.

398
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: Speaking of the pandemic, we're living in this world where

399
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: we were isolated, I mean all the things. Everybody knows.

400
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: We've been talking about the pandemic since the panic started.

401
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: But you're anxiety might come from the fact that you're

402
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 1: now living in this social environment that you were not

403
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: created to live in, and things have changed and all

404
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: of that. So maybe it's not like a like you said,

405
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: an inward thing, I need to go fix this problem

406
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: with me. It's that there's an issue in my community,

407
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: or there's an issue in my culture, or there's an issue,

408
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: and that is going to help me feel better versus

409
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: the gratitude list. So I wish more people kind of

410
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: spread solutions that way too, of looking outwards. So I

411
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: like that. Jolenta, what were some of the that did

412
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: not like this and the oh this was really helpful.

413
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it forever. Jolenta, what were some of

414
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: the that did not like this and the oh, this

415
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: was really helpful. I'm going to do it forever. Did

416
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: not like this. This is another thing Christen and I

417
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: have gotten some blowback on, and uh, it's it's just

418
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: a matter of certain things work for some people, the

419
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: certain things don't. But I, at least in the ways

420
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: that it's been presented to me in the books we've

421
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: lived by, not the hugest fan of meditation, at least

422
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: as it's prescribed first thing in the morning, often like

423
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: to get in like the you know, optimal mindset. And

424
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: I think it is great. I think it has a

425
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: time and a place. But I think prescribing it as

426
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: a fixall for centering people like it just doesn't work.

427
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: There are studies about meditation not working for people with ADHD.

428
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 1: Like I was having trouble sitting for meditation. I realized,

429
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: now this was before I got diagnosed with lupus, And

430
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: it's like I was dealing with like pretty severe chronic

431
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: pain and didn't notice it, and like meditation was making

432
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: me more aware of it, but it wasn't helping anything

433
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: at the time. And again, I know there are tons

434
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: of proven benefits to meditation, but being prescribed it as

435
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: sort of a big dose of like feel good medicine,

436
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: the way it's often described like did not work for me,

437
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: no matter how hard I tried. And I'm okay with that. Yeah,

438
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: it's a struggle. Probably a lot of people have of

439
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: everybody says, meditate, meditate, meditate, but my personality doesn't like

440
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: to meditate, or I feel angry when I meditate or it. Yeah,

441
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: did you not like meditation? I fall asleep all the time. Yeah.

442
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: Like yeah, so okay, so that didn't work. What's something

443
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: that you liked that might have actually been better than meditation. Well,

444
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: one thing I've liked, and like, I struggle. I struggle

445
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: as most people do with a negative self talk. Like

446
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: we all got it, we all love it, we don't

447
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: love it, but you know. And there's a book called

448
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: What to Say When You Talk to Yourself by doctor

449
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: Shad Helmsteader, who's a real doctor, not like an honorary doctor.

450
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: It so it looks better when you write a book,

451
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: but like, you know, a real psychologist who's practiced and research.

452
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: He writes about the neural pathways we create and how

453
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: self talk can get sort of stuck on a loop

454
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: and how to sort of change that, how to be

455
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: nicer to ourselves, and one of the things he says

456
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: in the book is basically like, think of how you

457
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: would talk to a friend, would you talk to a

458
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: loved one the same way you often talk to yourself,

459
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: and just pausing when you're in a stressful moment, being like, oh,

460
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: that was so stupid, Like you're such a moron. I mean, like, wait,

461
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: is that how I would yell at Kristen if she

462
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: messed up at work? No? So maybe I shouldn't yelp

463
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: myself that way. And that's been just a super helpful

464
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: reminder when I get sort of really rolling on a

465
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: negative self talk train, yeah, to just be like, wait,

466
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: is this something I would talk to anyone else in

467
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: my life? Probably not. I agree that is a great

468
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: thing to do. I struggle that too. I'm like, oh,

469
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: you're idiot or you're late, And I'm like my friend

470
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: was like I would say, no, big deal, like it's okay,

471
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: Like we'll move through it. But I am the first

472
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: one that can turn that on myself. So I like

473
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: that as a reminder. So what I'm thinking, I'm making

474
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: this up in my head, but I'm just thinking about

475
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: you guys and the excessive I'm going to use the

476
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: word excessive amount of content that you have absorbed feels

477
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: overwhelming to me. I am somebody who used to love, love,

478
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: love the every self help book, specifically ones who were

479
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: written by therapists or doctors or I just wanted to

480
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: eat that stuff up. And I recently this year actually,

481
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: it's when I started this, I was like, I'm not

482
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: going to read any even if they're books I want

483
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: to read for work. It's like, I'm gonna pause. I'm

484
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: now going through the Harry Potter books for the first time,

485
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: which has been life changing for me because I was

486
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: always like, no, I'm not reading those, but I had

487
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: to take in just some like enjoyable fun. You don't

488
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: have to apply this to your life and your every

489
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: day just to kind of calm down a little bit.

490
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: So I'm curious of what that experience is for you

491
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: now that you're like transitioning from reading all the content

492
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: to now just like living your life lives with the

493
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 1: content that you've taken in. What is that like for

494
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: you now to not be every two weeks reading a

495
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: book or every month or however often. And do you

496
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: feel overwhelmed by all of the information that you now hold.

497
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: Oh that's such a good question because, on the one hand,

498
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: because we are not every two weeks living by a

499
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: new self help book. It just opens things up to,

500
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,239
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, there are million other things out there

501
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: other than books, and it's everywhere. It's movies, it's things

502
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: throwing up on my social feeds, it's you know, trends

503
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: that I'm hearing people talk about in the coffee shop.

504
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: It really is so much bigger than books. It is

505
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: overwhelming and it is everywhere, but it's not all bad.

506
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: It's exciting to see, you know, where we are right

507
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: now and what's good and what's bad. Not all of

508
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: it's bad, but there's definitely bad in there, and it's fascinating.

509
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: Also fascinating in what people actually are being drawn to

510
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: and why, Like when Joe Lenta really dove into the

511
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: all beef diet and learning all about that and the

512
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: research she did for me learning about it from her

513
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: because we take turns telling each other about what we're researching,

514
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: and with that, it was just fascinating. You know, why

515
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: would somebody be drawn to this? And there are actually

516
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: legitimate reasons that are not worth mocking. You know, people

517
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: who are dealing with chronic health issues. It's not just

518
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: people who are trying to get jacked and have giant muscles,

519
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: but to learn about what draws people to these different

520
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: trends that are happening right now. So that's been fascinating.

521
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: But I do just want to also say, as far

522
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: as no longer living by self help books, at this point,

523
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: the biggest difference probably in my life is that I'm

524
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: not recording constantly while we live by self help books

525
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: because it was reality show in a way. My husband

526
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: and I for the entirety of our marriage, he was

527
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: being recorded. We were making the show for ten seasons

528
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: and he was recorded the entire marriage, and so and

529
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: our friendships, our co workers, everybody was being recorded all

530
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: the time. So it's been kind of a relief to

531
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: not have everything recorded all the time. Wait, that's wild,

532
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: like you were just recording out in the wild, not

533
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: just like in a studio conversation wrecked. Correct. Yeah, we

534
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: have sort of audio diary like reality show esque moments

535
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: in between our narration of like what our experience was,

536
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: like we throwed eclipse and by the Book, and By

537
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: the Book is also in the same feed as How

538
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: to Be Fine, our news show. So if you just

539
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: like scrawl back, you can see like the whole catalog.

540
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that because I when I was

541
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: listening to the couple episodes that you have for How

542
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: to Be Fine, I was like, wait a second, they

543
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: said this just came out, but there's all these different episodes,

544
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: so that's by the book. But that's fascinating that that's

545
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: how you did that. That must have been I think

546
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: fun and one and creative in one space and the

547
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: other sounds like, oh my gosh, my life feels so

548
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: different now like that you just said, I didn't think

549
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: about this that. Now that you aren't like living by

550
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: those books, you're also opened up to the fact that

551
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: everywhere there's something and it's almost like faster, like I

552
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: think the trends on social media. I feel like every

553
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: week there's something else trending, something that you should be doing,

554
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: And like you said, just how I feel about life coaches,

555
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: some of the things, I'm like, that's awesome, or like, yes,

556
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: let's keep telling people about that, like this shouldn't be

557
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: a secret, and some stuff I'm like, this seems like

558
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: there's an agenda somewhere, or this wouldn't work for a

559
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: lot of people, and I'm kind of scared. And then

560
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: I like that you said even the stuff like the

561
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 1: all beef diet, which I had never heard of, that

562
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: You're lucky. I mean, I've heard of a lot of diets.

563
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of I do a lot

564
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: of work with eating disorders and body image, but the

565
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: all beef diet has not really come up yet in

566
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: my sphere, So that I found that very fascinating. But yeah,

567
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: I like, how like even in the sect of that,

568
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: there are reasons that that could be helpful to somebody,

569
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: And so let's not just jump on everything and just

570
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: like demonize everybody out there that's creating a trend? Was

571
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: that like a almost a skill that was developed by

572
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: y'all doing these projects? Because I think I'm the opposite.

573
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm like, oh, another trend this is Oh I'm

574
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: so frustrated. But it sounds like you're like, oh, this trend,

575
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: let's look at it from both sides. Is that a

576
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: skill that's developed or have you? Guys? I know you

577
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: started as the skeptic and you were the one that

578
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: wanted to jump in. So did that shift a little

579
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: bit as you did your research? It definitely shifted. I've

580
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: definitely become more skeptical and I think, like, honestly, a

581
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: lot of it has helped me with my skepticism, and

582
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: like help me like use my skepticism is figuring out

583
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: like the point of view of your author, of your

584
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: advice giver, trying to figure out where they come from.

585
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: If you're looking at someone who's a therapist for twenty

586
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: years and then decided to write a book about their specialty,

587
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: that's one kind of source. If it's someone you know,

588
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: like Mark Manson who wrote The Subtle Art of Not

589
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: Giving a f who you know a few years prior

590
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: was working like in the pickup artist industry and wrote

591
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: a book on how to date models, you might be like, oh,

592
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: this person likes to sort of exploit trends and maybe

593
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: pivoted to a genre that has a greater selling power.

594
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: You know, you have to look, is this person looking

595
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: to become like an influencer almost and using giving advice

596
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: as like their way in their way to get view

597
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: was the way to get a book deal. Or is

598
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: this person looking to actually like share advice that's changed

599
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: their life or that they've used to help change other lives,

600
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: like in legitimate ways. I like that you just keep

601
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: language to that because that book was so popular, so

602
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm popular still is it's still a bestseller? Yeah?

603
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: I don't subtly hate that book. It's that book. That

604
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: book is just nagging the reader, being like and met

605
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: you're fucked up, and then like good over it. Oh

606
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, it's like not kind, but I like

607
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: that idea you said, like get to know the author

608
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: a little bit more and get to know what the

609
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: author's angle might be. Did you ever read or have

610
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: you heard of, the book Why Men Love Bitches? Oh? Yeah,

611
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: did you read that book? But oh my gosh, okay,

612
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: we picked it like right before it was sort of

613
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 1: blowing up on TikTok and it was sort of like

614
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: fortuitous that. Okay, when was that because I did not

615
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: see it on TikTok, so it was that probably probably

616
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: like a year ago. It has good SoundBite type passages,

617
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: but when you read all the advice, it's very like

618
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: don't be a dumb slut bitch, and it's like, whoa,

619
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: why why are we blaming women for like the institutions

620
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: like side of my Men that keep us down? Like

621
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: oh my god, sorry I digress or I am yeah,

622
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: I interrupted, No, you're that I can't wait to hear

623
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: more about this because I was given that book. This

624
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: was back in my health coaching want to the days

625
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: I was in grad school and somebody gave me that

626
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: book and was like, you need to read this book.

627
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: It's gonna get you a boyfriend. I was like twenty two,

628
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: twenty three maybe actually maybe a little older. And I

629
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: started reading the book and I think I got like

630
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: maybe thirty pages in. I don't remember how far, but

631
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: I just remember being like I can't do this, Like

632
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: this is not who I am, and so if I

633
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: keep doing if I do this, I'm going to attract

634
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: somebody to not me. Like they're not gonna like me,

635
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: They're gonna like this person I'm being it's like this

636
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: person who never calls them back and always pretends to

637
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: hate them, right, and then like the you don't need them, Yeah,

638
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: it's just fine. You shouldn't need a man, but like

639
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: you can love one. Yeah, but I but I think

640
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: my thing was like, okay, well what happens when like

641
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: we're dating and I want to call him, like can

642
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: I call him now? And then he's gonna be like

643
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: where did this girl come from? She doesn't like me?

644
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: And I like the girl that doesn't like me. So

645
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: how did you guys live by that? Because I can't

646
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: imagine living by that book. I mean it was a

647
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: lot of like, uh, you know, I would call my

648
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: husband into a room and then be like just so

649
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need you, and then he'd be

650
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: like what why? Okay, Um, it was just it's a

651
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: lot of fronting. Basically. It was sort of now I'm

652
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: just sort of on like a pickup artist like thought train,

653
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: but it's sort of like how to be a female

654
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: pickup artist light like sort of nagging a guy, acting

655
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: like you don't care, acting like you don't need them,

656
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: but again like never being genuine or sincere, so they're

657
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: never getting to know you other than these like games

658
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: you're supposedly playing, because like, men love bitches more than

659
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: kind people. Yeah people, Yeah, just always keep the man

660
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: on his toes, keep him chasing. So Joelent and I

661
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: tried to find ways to make our husbands chase us

662
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: and to never be able to like, you know, put

663
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: their finger on what we were up to or what

664
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: we were thinking, and to always keep them confused. Essentially, well,

665
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: talk about anxiety and how anxiety and our culture has

666
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: become such a thing. I'm not married, but being y'all,

667
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: being married and then having to create this game in

668
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: my relationship would have caused me so much internal chaos.

669
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: I would not feel excited about that. I would be like,

670
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: oh my god, she's got a chase me, or he

671
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: gonna think I'm mean it didn't work, or like, okay,

672
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: what do I You can't be yourself? Right? Okay? I

673
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: have to go back and listen to that episode. Because

674
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: that that book, I could do a whole Maybe I

675
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: will do a whole podcast on that book myself. It

676
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: is so for a lack of a better word, very toxic,

677
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: which brings me to kind of the question I cut.

678
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: I want to like end on with y'all. I'm going

679
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: to ask this two ways because I don't know which

680
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: way is going to resonate the best. So if you

681
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: could offer one piece of your own advice from your

682
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: experience or bust one myth that you think is rampant

683
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: in our culture right now, what would that be. I

684
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: have a particular issue with experts saying if I can

685
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: do it, anyone can, and I would like anybody who

686
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: hears that in the future to scratch the surface and

687
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: see who the person is who's saying that if I

688
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: can do what anyone can, I came from nothing. Well

689
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: did you really come from nothing? Oh? No, you went

690
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: to a prestigious boarding school and then on legacy qualifications

691
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: got into an Ivy League school. What's your parents paid for?

692
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: Oh you've never dealt with student loanda. Oh you've never

693
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: actually been in an abusive relationship before. Oh you've never

694
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: actually dealt with systemic inequalities due to your gender or race. Well,

695
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: maybe when you say if I can do it, anyone can,

696
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: maybe you're not actually talking to me. You're just talking

697
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: to other people who had all the same advantages you did.

698
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that person didn't have any

699
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: struggles in life. You can still have all those advantages

700
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: and still have certain struggles, but you probably don't have

701
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: the same struggle as I do. You probably are not

702
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: dealing with the deck stacked against you the way it

703
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: stacked against somebody who perhaps has poverty in their history

704
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: or race or gender inequality to deal with as well.

705
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: And so just you know, please, everybody. All these self

706
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: help authors love to use that phrase. All of these influencers,

707
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: all of these life coaches like to say if I

708
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: can do it, anyone can. That's probably not true. You

709
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: can do a lot of things, but you're dealing with

710
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: a different deck of cards than that person. Yeah. And

711
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: what it like shaming language, that is it's like not

712
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: if you can't do it, like, yeah, I guess you're

713
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: a loser. Yeah. And also I just think of which

714
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: as I constantly have like so much stuff going in

715
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: my head about like should I take this podcast down?

716
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: And should I just do this? And because I am

717
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: I part of this problem, but we are so nuanced

718
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: like humans are. Even if it looks like I've had

719
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: all the same struggles as you, I haven't. And I

720
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: could have all the same struggles except I've maybe been

721
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: in a relationship that was abusive, and that one thing

722
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: can be the biggest change. And so I find it

723
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: very damaging to use that like all or nothing kind

724
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: of language with anything, which is really hard I think

725
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: I've had. I'm a therapist, but I think another part

726
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: of my brain is so creative, and so I have

727
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: all these ideas if I want to write this book

728
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: and I want to do this workshop, but I want

729
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: to do this thing, and I have to keep going

730
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: back to I used to get in a fight with

731
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: my not he wouldn't call it a fight, but this

732
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: push and pull with a business consultant I had, because

733
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: he would come up with all these like business strategies,

734
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 1: and I would say, I'm not doing that. The things

735
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: that sell are not the things that I'm willing to say.

736
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: So like, if I can do it, I've pulled myself

737
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: up from this and I've created this empire and blah

738
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: blah blah and all the stuff, So here's how you

739
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: can do it. I would never be able to say

740
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: something like that, but that's stuff that sells really well.

741
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: So I'm so glad that you said that and offered that.

742
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: It goes back to what you said to like, look

743
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: at who's selling you whatever product or book or thing

744
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: that you're even if you're not buying it with money,

745
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: what is their m O. Because there's a difference in

746
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: of course jobs or jobs, and we all need money

747
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: to provide for our lives. There's a difference in like

748
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: helping and just wanting to sell a product or idea.

749
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: So thank you, Joelenton. Would you say something different, like

750
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: a myth or something you would tell somebody I would

751
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: say ditta what Kristen said for sure, and also just

752
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: to keep in mind, there's a difference between trying something new,

753
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: maybe pushing a boundary in a healthy way, and just

754
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: forcing yourself to do stuff you don't want to do.

755
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: And like just because a book says it or some

756
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: like self appointed like self help guru says you should

757
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: do it, doesn't mean you have to if you're not

758
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: feeling it, which is something I had to learn where

759
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, right, I can put this advice down.

760
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: I don't have to employ it. Yeah, if it's not working,

761
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: and like you're not broken. If it's not working, maybe

762
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: the advice isn't applicable. Isn't that good? It doesn't work

763
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: for everyone, you know, well, and you could love a

764
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: book or a person or an influencer or a therapist.

765
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: You could love one of those things and not love everything.

766
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: So I'm right just thinking about some of the things

767
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: you probably have done, Like I can take part of that.

768
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: And just because I don't want to take all of

769
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that I'm throwing it all. You don't

770
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: throw everything away, So that's awesome. So talk to me

771
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: just a little bit about the new I know we

772
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: talked about in the beginning, but the new podcast, it's

773
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: from what I've gathered a transition into like, now, we

774
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: did all of this, so now we want to go

775
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: out there and do something a little different. So what

776
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: is the motivation in the future of that and hopes

777
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: for that podcast? How to Be Fine is a show

778
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: where we get to be even more critical of the

779
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: self help industry. So we explore a hot topic and

780
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: we discuss listener questions around the world of wellness and

781
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: betterment and self help. So even if it's not on

782
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: a episode you've done, they can be like I saw

783
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: this on TikTok. What do you think about it? Yes, totally, yes, Yeah,

784
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: we'll listen to it. We'll give our two cents based

785
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: on what we know of the wellness world and like

786
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: what is and isn't trustworthy advice and sources. I want

787
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: to send you some questions because I'm just interested. But

788
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: I have you done. I'm assuming you have. But the

789
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: biggest thing that is coming to me in my office,

790
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: it will not the biggest thing, but one of the

791
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: big things is the lucky girl syndrome. Have you seen

792
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: that lucky girl syndrome? Okay, well, then you have. This

793
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: is something I need to research like this. Second we

794
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: get off this, you have to do think I know

795
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, but I want to hear it

796
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: like a little Okay, So if you type it into

797
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: TikTok or probably any social media, you'll get tons of stuff.

798
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: But it's literally just the power of positive thinking, which like,

799
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: that's what I thought. I think is helpful. There's a

800
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: time and a place for that. And I do believe

801
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: the more that we are looking for the like little

802
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: pieces of gold in our life, even if they're tiny,

803
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: the more we're going to see them, and the more

804
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: that the negative is not going to be as heavy.

805
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: So I don't like hate it. It just has become

806
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: huge all of a sudden, and it is just I

807
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: think it started from my understanding. I could be wrong,

808
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 1: but some girls starting to say, like, good things always

809
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: happen to me, and then these good things keep happening

810
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: to them, And is it that that's changing their life

811
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: or because you are saying that, you're more prone to

812
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: be steered to see the good things, like a parking

813
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: spot that you got that you normally would be like,

814
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: oh I got a parking spot close, but you wouldn't

815
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: really care, but like, see everything good happens to me.

816
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: I got this girl a lucky girl. Yes, yes, but

817
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff with just like I think

818
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: what I've seen the critics of it has been like

819
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: privilege and that that can't apply to everybody, and so

820
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: it would just be interesting to get y'all take after

821
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: a deep die. I mean, that's what I understood is

822
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: it's basically like the latest iteration of like the law

823
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: of attraction sort of magical thinking, where it was like,

824
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: see I'm lucky, like all this stuff like I just

825
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: like I think it and it happens. And again it's

826
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: also you're noticing more and more of the little positive

827
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: moments that could be a serendipitous, but now you're attributing

828
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 1: it to manifestation. Yeah, which is always rough because some

829
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: of that is circumstantial. Some of the that is based

830
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: on privilege perhaps or socioeconomic status, which is a kind

831
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: of privilege. And you know there are some people who

832
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: just based on where they are in life, like cannot

833
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 1: be as lucky as some of these people you're going

834
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: to be seeing on TikTok. And then it's just sort

835
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: of the blame of like, if you're not getting everything

836
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: you want in life, it's your own fault because you're

837
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: not manifesting it hard enough. You're not really zoning in

838
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: on the positive. Yes, oh my gosh. And I think

839
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: it's just interesting that it is, like this is just

840
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: an iteration of something we've already been taught and it's

841
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: the secrets. Yeah, it comes back again and again and again. Yeah,

842
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: self help books all the way back to the nineteen thirties,

843
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: we're doing this the same thing. Yeah, amazing, Well, thank

844
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: you so much for doing this. This was, like I said,

845
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: I was so excited to talk to you guys, because

846
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: this has been something that's been inside of my body

847
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: screaming to get out for a while. Where can people

848
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: find both of y'all? And then also the podcast where

849
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: it's the best place and way to find that too.

850
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: We have an Instagram feed how to Be Fine pod

851
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: so you can see what we're up to there, and

852
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: then to listen to the show. We are on every

853
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: podcatcher out there, Spotify, Apple, Podcast, Stitch your Pocketcasts. Wherever

854
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: you look for How to Be Fine, you'll find us. Okay,

855
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: and then by the book is in that same so

856
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: if people search by the book, they won't find it,

857
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: but they search how to Be Fine. It should be fine.

858
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: I'll be in exactly the same feed. If you look

859
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: up one show, it'll direct you to the other, and

860
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: vice versa. Okay, and it'll get you to that same

861
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: feed that is now called how to Be Fine. Okay beautiful.

862
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: Can people follow you on Instagram individually? Do you have

863
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: public Instagram? Yeah? Okay, at at Glenta underscore g and

864
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: at K ten mindser okay beautiful. I will put all

865
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: that stuff for those listening in the show notes, so

866
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: you can just click that stuff and find them find

867
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Thank

868
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you