WEBVTT - Ep. 073: Advanced Wild Game Cooking 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.680 bug bitten, and in my case underwear listening hunt e podcast. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.520 You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:29.440 stay longer. You know, as as we get into talking 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.360 about different food I feel like it's an important thing 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:35.360 to clarify here is like, uh, last night, me and 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:43.520 Janice eight dinner at Josh's restaurant, but we've also hung 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:49.320 out a bit and just socially and had some wild 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:54.520 game that Josh and friends you go mostly by Joshua 0:00:54.560 --> 0:01:00.880 or Josh both. Yeah, that Josh has gotten from friends 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.960 or harvested themselves. So if when we're talking it sounds 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.840 like there's confusion ever between what we consumed in the 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.039 restaurant and what we consumed like for instance, in my 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.400 hotel room last night. UM, bear in mind that that 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:21.080 there's like important distinctions there between commercially produced meat that 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.759 can be sold in a restaurant and sport harvested meat 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.520 and fish that you can just get from yourself or 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.760 be gifted to you from a friend and share with 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.000 other other friends when there's no financial transaction going on. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.240 So just bear it in mind as we talk I'm 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.319 not gonna go in and clarify all this stuff all 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.120 the time. And it's an important distinction, and I just 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.119 want people to be aware of that as we march 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.840 through some of the foods. We're gonna be talking about 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:52.440 Josh Gaines stays On restaurant. Does it annoy you? Does 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.320 it annoy you? When? When? If you if you look 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.320 at stays On online, there's two like things that people 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:03.320 will point out. Just a joy like a Joe Blow. 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.480 If you went and typed in staves on San Francisco, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.280 he's gonna find that you have three Michelin stars, which 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:15.040 is like a tremendous measure of success as a chef 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:21.800 and restaurateur. And there's gonna be another descriptor does that 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.760 descriptor annoy you? Then it comes off you haven't told 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.000 me what it is yet, because it's the it's the 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.160 if you take a national perspective, it's the second and 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:38.360 most blank. Yeah, you know, unfortunately, that's that's the Do 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.919 you hate it? Like kind of like a no, I, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.480 I you know, I don't. I don't hate it. I 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.000 mean I think that you know, there's a there's a 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.920 certain reality until can you tell people what it is 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:47.959 the second most one. Well it's it's the second most 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.720 expensive restaurant in America, apparently because reporters can't do math, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:58.080 but because I feel like it, Um, go ahead speak. Well, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.760 you know, we we started um putting. We we we 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.040 put the price you know, out front in the beginning, right, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.200 everything was included. And then if you look at you know, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.320 let's say another three star Michelin restaurant, you get a 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.440 basementu price. Then there's you know, four or five supplements, 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.160 and you add all those things up and it's like 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.440 double the price of here. So you know you got 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.720 it just by coming out and saying here's what it 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:29.760 costs for all inclusive? Or how many courses does wind 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.320 up being? Uh, it just depends anywhere from eight to 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.840 you know, sixteen, So you're just laying it when you 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:38.400 lay it all out. I was trying to put it 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:39.600 all out there. I was trying to say, hey, guys, 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.880 here's math. This is so much. You'll be here for 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.280 a couple of hours, it's this much, and then it 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.480 then it positions you in that way where you have 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:55.480 all over online. Yeah, people like that expression. Yeah, how 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.120 many three Michelin star restaurants are in the US. I 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.720 think I think there's thirteen or fourteen, maybe twelve or thirteen, 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:02.480 some twelve and four and some other other ones in 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.840 San Francisco. Uh yeah, there's one. So we were we 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.840 were the first, along with another place called Venue. Yeah. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.160 I think we should explain if we can just a 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.440 real general idea of what Michelin stars are, it would 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.640 be important because yeah, that's who's the chef. Who's the 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.080 chef that killed himself when he lost the Michelin Star. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.599 I mean which one? I think there's a few, but 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.960 the guy you're talking about, the famous guy his name 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.240 in France. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're talking about. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.080 So yeah, explain, like the misslim Star thing. So Michelin, 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.120 I guess is the you know, it's it's also the 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.599 tire company. But they started publishing a guide I think 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.920 it was in the thirties maybe, uh and uh it 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.960 was meant to uh you know, probably meant to sell tires, 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.840 but uh, but it gave people, um, you know, a 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:56.880 guide to uh you know, destination were the restaurants and 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:58.520 so you know it was either one, two or three 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.640 and three is basically you know the nacle of the 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.599 cooking world or the restaurant world, and and and it 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.000 really means that it's worth a detour, you know, a 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.520 full trip to go to you know, restaurant and then 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:16.600 in your place you are you wear a camouflage hat. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.640 I noticed last night when I was dying in here, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.200 so you had that wasn't because you were here. Actually 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.160 it's just not so you. But that's the interesting thing 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.360 is that, um, you're like pretty open, Like you're very 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:33.679 open about the fact you like the hunt. Um, even 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:38.400 though you live in a town that's perceived by many 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.200 people who don't live here, like it's perceived by outside 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.000 as being like a place that would be a hostile 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.640 environment for hunters. Yeah, but then to be here's like 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.080 a person who is sort of at the pinnacle of 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.720 the restaurant world, the pinnacle of the cooking world, in 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.800 this very space and just being like add out open 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.200 about it. Have you ever have you ever felt blowback 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.520 at all for just being like, this is what I 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.080 this is what I like to do. This informs my cooking, 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.400 it's my it's a lifestyle I have. I mean, you 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.920 get you get blowback on you know, Instagram or something, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.800 but you don't, you know, in here. You know, it's 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.279 our purpose is just for quality, right, the quality of 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.920 the product. So you know, for me, the whole the 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:29.280 whole reason for for starting hunting again was uh good meat. 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.640 It's you know, you you know, as a chef, you 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.800 start to chase uh quality and uh so you know 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:37.880 I was just looking for, you know, a better quality. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.039 And so you know, over the years it led me 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.200 to hunting because you can't really replace that uh you 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.720 know that that quality level, you know, provided that you 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.480 handle it in the right way, um as getting in 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.479 yourself so or at least seeing the whole process through right. Um, 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.560 so you know, whenever we're at the point just I 0:06:55.600 --> 0:07:00.000 mean to speak to that like you're you were steaming, 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.960 like you don't every fish that comes into your restaurant 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.040 you like to come in alive? Yeah exactly. Yeah, if 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.400 we if we can get the elk in a live 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:08.840 to it, we do that, but it might stress him 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.960 out a little bit and not tasted good. And you 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:15.760 have staff, you have like a staff fisherman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.880 so we have we have fishermen, and these guys bring 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.200 us basically everything alive. So the whole purpose is that 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.200 we get all of our stuff alive because uh, you know, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.400 the reality is is like as soon as you you know, 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.120 you know, pull a trout out of the river, you know, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.640 it starts to go downhill. You either click it right there, 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.800 and you know, you get to experience that kind of 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.680 perfect uh taste, right, and you know there's a small window. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.000 There's usually usually for all things, there's like a window. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.480 You get a window in the beginning and uh uh 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.760 you know that's what maybe thirty minutes after you harvest it, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.160 whether it's meat or or or fish or whatever it 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.680 may be, right, it's maybe an hour let's say an hour, right, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.600 and it's perfect. There's one particular taste you know, kind 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.640 of attached to that that period of time. And then 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.280 you know, as time goes by, rigor sets in. You know, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:03.760 you can I see your question. I was gonna ask 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.000 about rigor. So if you actually do, say, you know, 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.080 eat you're a piece of your elk in that first hour, 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.640 will you actually be able to eat it and enjoy 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.840 it before you have any sort of rigor? Exactly? Yeah, 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.360 So it said you know there's two there's That's what 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.840 I'm saying. There's basically two particular you know, sets of 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:24.200 time before before rigor sets in, before uh, you know, 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.640 any of those things really happened. There's that that taste 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.120 everybody's fromil you know, any hunters familiar with that taste. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.360 And then there's that I guess what we what we 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.320 call aging right where we age our meat to a 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.800 certain point to where you know, the enzymes start to 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.160 break down the meat and they start to make the 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.880 meat more delicious or the fish more delicious. And you know, 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.959 really everything has its its sweet spot where it tastes 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.920 you know, perfect, right. So so our job is really 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.880 to find that timing and the products lifespan and then uh, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.880 you know, choose the right point to cook it at. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.600 So you know, for an elk, for a big big 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.480 piece of meta, we could hang those primal cuts for 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:04.680 you know, a month, three months even and uh and 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.679 so you know, it's really all about just kind of 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.280 finding that that that right right moment when it tasts best. 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.680 I want to get back into I want to spend 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.480 a bunch of time on aging, because you were telling 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.319 me some things like aging game that you found just 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.040 from your own personal stuff, and then you're working your restaurant. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.959 That's that's that's kind of up ended some of the 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.520 things that I thought were possible, some of the extremes 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.680 that I thought were possible on aging and what you 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.880 get on it. I also want to talk about your 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.880 fish killing method. What I call what I heard E 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.560 K G may But how do you properly say it? 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.079 I don't speak Japanese. I wouldn't know. I call it 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.400 a kids. You Yeah, I've just listened to the Japanese. 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:41.880 Did say it when I go down to the fish market. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.199 You know, you kid? You man? I think, but you, uh, 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.559 you grew up in Florida, But you did you grow 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.240 up like in Florida. It's like the fisherman's paradise, right? 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.040 Did you grow up a round fishing? Oh? Yeah, I 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.760 grew up fishing, you know, uh, you know kind of 0:09:53.840 --> 0:10:00.520 Jack's Barracuda's tarpan sharks. You know, you name it alligators? Um? 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.960 But but I um. I got out of there in 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.079 high school, and then I moved to Boston and then 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:08.679 went to school in New York and then finally came 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.280 out here. Like your your family's your whole family moved. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.040 Are you just left on your own? No? I just left. 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.480 I grew up around a bunch of people that grew 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.480 up in New York and and you know, they always 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.560 talked about the big city, big lights, and so I I, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.160 you always had a dream to get out of there 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.920 and go and moved to New York. You studied what there? Well, 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:26.880 I went to so so I went to Boston. I 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.200 had some family there. Uh what plan? Don't actually going 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.800 to school in Boston then? Um? Uh didn't? And then 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:33.480 wind up going to culinary school New York in a 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.520 place called French Culinary Institute. Yeah, I gave which is 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.959 now I think it's called i SEC International Culinary. Yeah, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.520 I gave them a beaver tail one time. Right, I 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.120 was messing around for for a period of time. I 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:48.720 was trying to mess around and finding out how the 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.480 Mountain Men cook beaver you know, like, yeah, you know 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.079 what you're reading about the Mountain of Arts and they 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.120 love beaver tail, right, But you get the sense that 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.640 it's just from oral or you know, oral stuff that 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.440 was eventually transcribed into writing of people describing the Mountain 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.920 Men's diet, but no one really got into how they 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.200 were actually cooking it or what they're doing with it. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.200 And so I started messling with it and and put 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.480 some stuff up online about messing around with beaver tail, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.920 and a guy at that at that school, I gave 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.120 him one and he had his students prep it out 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.720 and that it's pretty exciting stuff with beaver tail over there. 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.160 I don't know if exciting comes to mind when you 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.840 give like a culinary school, you know, some rare ingredient, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.520 But but what what is the what's like the makeup 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:37.920 of the beaver tail. It's scales. It's scales over so 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:39.200 when you look at the beaver tail, you're just seen 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:45.040 the scally surface. Uh, that tail will be emaciated in 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.520 the spring to the point where you'll see you can 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.680 see the outline of the bone that runs the length 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.760 of it, just like the end of the you know, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.920 the end of the spine right runs into the tail um. 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.520 But in the fall it gets so fat. I think 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.640 it gets like heavier and the fall when it builds 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.560 up fat and when you burn off the scales, you 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:07.880 just put it next to you, fire for a long 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.160 time and eventually start to bubble and burn and you 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.400 can scrape that skin away and underneath it is what 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:18.320 looks and tastes like grizzle and fat on a real 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:23.840 fatty ass grilled steak and you slice that thin and 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:25.720 you'd eat it and you'd be like, that tastes exactly 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.439 like grizzle. But you have to consider that the people 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.960 that were eating that, um, they were living on a 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.760 diet of very lean wild meat. And I think it 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.720 was just like it was a fat source. Basically top 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.040 the bottom just fat, and you slice it thin, put 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.040 some salt on it, and it's like surprising, because it's 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.400 surprising that that is what lives inside of a beaver's tail. 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.480 So what about the meat? Do you eat the beaver meat? 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:53.480 We just put that on top like a little it's 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.680 like a little toiret topping you could make. You could, 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.839 really you could cook the meat down and then put 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.960 this stuff on there, like make its own little fat 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.320 source on there. Alright, I'm gonna give you a recipe 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.280 for beaver tail after this already got it. I don't 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:10.040 want to know what you need. Yeah. Um, So yeah, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:11.880 that was that was my runn into that place. But 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.200 I had some other point I was gonna make about 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:20.080 beaver beaver tails. Yeah, I don't know. Did you know 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:21.959 by this point, like when you were going to school, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.760 Like at what point growing up, did you know you 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.320 had a knack for cooking? And then also, at what 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:30.160 point did it be that you started to associate hunting 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:36.720 and fishing with your interest in cooking. Well, I don't 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.520 know if I ever I thought I had a knack 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.160 for cooking in the beginning. I think that You're like, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.480 I had to I had to pay some bills, you know, yeah, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.920 and uh and so I got a you know, restaurant job. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:49.960 Why Stually, my first restaurant job was in Florida. I 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.880 was dishwasher the Japanese restaurant. And um, and I just 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.880 always had restaurant jobs because they were easy to get. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.000 You know, back then, you can, you know, any any 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.200 you know, schmuck can get a restaurant job. So I 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.200 was just, you know, it was just what I had. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.520 And when you were back there scrubbing dishes, you were like, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:06.880 some of a bitch man, this is what I'm I 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.200 do with my life? What you know? I I So 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.079 I grew up doing martial arts, and I started once 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.600 about five or so, and uh and so the organization 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.160 of actually dishwashing and and getting you know, a pile 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.520 of ship thrown at you, you know, play a bust 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.040 you know, bus tubs of uh of plates and cups, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.800 you know, and and and having and having to go 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.520 through the process of like rinsing them, washing them, getting 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.400 in there, getting out of dishwasher, getting put away, drying them, wax. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.720 It was like this movement, you know, smartial arts movement. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.840 So I was excited about it. Really, I like my 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:45.440 dishwashing job. So there was the fastest dishwasher in town. Man, right, 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.960 a COVID of dishwasher. You know that it worked for 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:50.560 me when I was my short little stit in the 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.360 kitchen when we had new guys washing dishes and me, 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.040 and they'd be just crossing in the weeds and be 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.240 at the end of the night where not only do 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:57.960 they have all the cups and dishes and plates and 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.080 still we're coming at them, but the whole kitchen is 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.600 just breaking down. So now there's you know, pots was 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.520 you know, stuff stuck on them, and cheese melted everywhere, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.720 and all kinds of pans, and man, if you just 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.840 jumped in there a couple of nights and gave him 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.400 like an hour of your time and just busted but 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.200 with them, and then all of a sudden, it's like 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.320 your rapport with them was just golden forever. You know, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.120 they're just like, all right, man, I like you. I 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.760 like you forever. This dude can handle burned on cheese. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.760 Then yeah, I don't want to I don't want to 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:29.800 like labor your bio, but I do want understand kind 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.400 of how you came to be who you are. Well, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.120 I think I think it was really random, you know, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.320 it was really just kind of happenstance in my opinion. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.240 You know, I I I was interested in certain things, 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.760 you know, cooking, you know, his physical act. And I 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:44.680 think you know, growing up doing martial arts, it was 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.120 you know, a relationship to crafts, right, I mean, you 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.960 know it's a craft and so but in fact, I 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.360 went back and forth on cooking and martial arts for 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.280 a long period of time when I first started, you know, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.360 after I went to corner school. Like you were, like 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.720 you were doing competitive martial arts. Uh yeah, yeah, when 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.040 I was younger, I did I did I do Chinese 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:07.400 martial arts and and and so. Um, you know I 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.120 did some compete when I was younger, but um, but 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.720 I always went back and forth and because you know, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.320 really practicing took up so much time. Uh and uh 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.640 and so cooking at that time was you know, distraction 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.880 from practicing. And so I went back and forth and 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.960 and finally around twenty you know, twenty or so, I 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.760 gave up and and just just you know, needed to 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.480 pay my bills, and you know, I started cooking full time. 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.280 And uh and so and where were you then? I 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.800 was in Boston. I was in Boston. What kind of 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:40.520 food were you doing? Uh? Just like be stro food, 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.560 you know, random bistro I worked out. I worked a 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.440 couple of restaurants in Boston that are well known. Um, 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.480 but uh, but it was it was you know, it's 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.240 like I used to sneak in the bathroom, like read 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.640 my like martial arts book, you know, a little scrolls 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.200 and ship in the bathroom. I was like, oh, I 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.280 gotta breakdown. It's fifteen minute break and we go read 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.120 my scrolls in the bathroom. So so I was went 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.000 back and forth, um and uh. And it wasn't really 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.159 until I came out to San Francisco where I really 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:10.119 really like, uh started to Um. It was what thirteen 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.440 years ago I really started to, uh, you know, focus 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:19.040 wholly on cooking. So so working working, working in other 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.280 places at the time. Still, Yeah, So well, yeah, when 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:23.639 I came out here, I worked at a place in 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.239 the South Bay called H T J. Little little, um, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.760 little restaurant that it's been around for maybe like twenty 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.440 five years, and I had a garden in the back. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.240 But but it allowed me to really refocus and really 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.640 you know, uh, you know, treated as a career and 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.920 um and uh, you know, it was a learning process. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.080 I came out here and there was all these incredible products, 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.280 you know, coming from the East Coast, where there's there's 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.680 just not the same you know, you know, convergence of 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:50.960 you know, all all these amazing things. There's like a 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.240 there's a cheese producing region here, there's a wine producing region. 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.000 You know, you can you can you know, go outside 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.160 and and hunt. I guess you can do that anywhere. 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.440 But um, but basically they have everything everything you would 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.800 want here as a chef to really produce good fit. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.360 You felt that, like you felt that the the ingredients 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.800 available to you and the products available to you was 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.800 just better here than it was in the East. I mean, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.800 go you know, you go to Whole Foods. I mean, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.840 I don't know about now, right, it's a little different now. 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:19.800 But when I came here, Yeah, for sure. I mean 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:21.160 you can go to Whole Foods and you can look 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.439 at you know, three varieties of radish, whereas you know 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.600 the you know, uh that I was named that place 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:28.719 in the East Coast. I don't know if you got 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.520 a supermarket out there, and at that time it was 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.840 just just wasn't the same. Yeah, maybe it's because I 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.040 was dirt poor when I lived in the East Coast. 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.240 You know what we were talking about yesterday driving around 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.680 here is, um, we're kind of in the last couple 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.680 of days. You've done kind of a tour where San 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.480 Jose down to Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz up to here. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.359 It was like where I you know, where I grew up, 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.200 where I've lived most of my life. When you are 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:57.080 in an agricultural area, you're usually looking at stuff that's 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.440 fed to stuff that will become food, right like where 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:07.680 groups like alfalfa and feed corn. When you're driving around California, 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.720 like be like, oh, ship, there's a field of cauliflower 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.120 or there's you know, there's like products you know where 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.639 you're like, you're you're able to in this climate in 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:21.520 this area grow the actual things that you eat. You know, 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.200 all the artichokes, tree nuts. It just kind of gives 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.560 you a different relationship to how stuff is after because 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.840 most people just look at are looking more at commodities 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.640 when they look at agricultural fields rather than looking at 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:38.040 like finished table ready items being grown unless you have 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.879 a garden. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Out here, you know, 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.399 it's got everything, but it's still you know, I mean, 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.480 there's you know, all that stuff out here is still 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.560 most of the majority of it's still you know, kind 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:53.160 of monoculture and and um, you know, you know, cities 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.120 devoted to just artichokes, right, So it's still it still 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.119 has its issues out here. Right. So it's really all 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.880 the small it's it's it's it's all practices, right until 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.440 you really get into the smaller practices than it. Then 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.879 you know there's a there's a lot of issues with 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.000 with you know, agriculture in general. So when you when 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:12.240 you got there, I need to start your own. Is 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.600 this the first restaurant you started? Yeah? Did you at 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.760 the same time decide to be that You're gonna get 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:22.240 a restaurant and get a farm? Well, I mean I yeah, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.280 I mean you need a farm to to really have 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.760 the best things. Like most restaurants don't have a goddamn farm. 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.679 Well that's true, but you know, if you're gonna make 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:31.920 good food, you gotta have farm. If you if you're 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.360 still good to be like that. That's as simple as that. 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:36.600 Like if you have a rest if I'm gonna have 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.320 a restaurant, a farm, need a fisherman, you know, need 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.040 to get need to get media, a certain place, you 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.720 need to find uh you know, uh, you know dry goods. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.520 So you know, as a chef, you gotta you gotta 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.879 go through, uh, you gotta audit your list of of 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.920 how are you really procure ingredients if you really want 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.040 to get to to a place where you're actually producing 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.919 good food in earnest, Right, So explain the farm that 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.120 goes with stays On. Is it called says On farm? Uh? Yeah, sure, 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.520 we'll call it that. It's just I saw it written 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:09.480 somewhere you got a duck hanging up somewhere, and I 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.520 saw it, said like, yeah, that's just in our internal language. 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.320 We don't we just our farm, right, it's called the farm. 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.200 But yeah, it's just you know, you gotta you have 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.439 to you know, you got you have a you have choices, right, 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:21.800 you can pick up the phone as a chevy you 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.040 can call you know, your your purveyor, your wholesaler and say, hey, look, 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:30.080 you know, uh, take six heads of lettuce today, right, Um. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.920 But you know that the whole process of of wholesaling 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.119 is you know, there's there's a middleman there, there's a 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.240 you know usually maybe another middleman, someone who actually sources 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.840 all this stuff out. Then there's the actual producer. So 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.679 you're separated and by the time it gets a restaurant, 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.920 you're five layers away from from getting the actual product. 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:49.960 So you know, it goes to a whole, it goes 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.960 to you know, shipping, it goes through holding in the warehouse, 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.120 and then maybe you get it maybe three or four 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.560 or five, six, seven days later, right, So at that point, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.560 you know, it doesn't taste have any resemblance to really 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.520 what a great product really is anymore. You know, the 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.280 aroma was gone. That that that original taste when you 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:10.879 picked it has gone. And and most likely the product 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:14.480 itself is is you know, some from some seed that 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:18.480 was uh, you know, spliced and diced you know, seven 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.919 different ways to to have no resemblance of the the 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.119 original taste of that product. So we just wanted to 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.159 to you know, take it back to a time to 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.280 where everything had flavor, right, I mean really since what 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:32.400 World War one or two or where it was that 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.840 you know, everything has been you know, um, you kind 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.640 of bastardize our seeds, our seeds and you know all 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.080 the produce you know, I mean you really think about, um, 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.760 you know how many people have eating a ripe tomato, 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.000 you know, from a great seed off the vine when 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.080 it's when it's truly like right, it's very few. So 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.520 that was our purpose. We wanted to just you know, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.240 have great products. You know. That's the thing that comes 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:57.679 up a lot in conversations about food. I feel like 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.920 over the last two decades or whatever, is uh, the 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.200 I sit on both sides of what I'm gonna bring 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:08.800 up where people talk about the industrialization of food, Okay, 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.840 and we generally now sort of talk about it as 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:16.160 a negative because we have the luxury in this country, 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:18.480 We had the luxury of like eating very fine food. 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.280 But to contextualize it a little bit, just to show 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.000 you that, just to demonstrate, like my how I sit 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.200 on both sizes contextualized a little bit. During World War two, 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.720 we had estimates very but perhaps some millions of people 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:38.840 starved to death in Europe. We had rations in this 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:43.680 country on you know, there was like dairy rations, meat rations, 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:49.040 major shortages, and coming out of that, it wasn't long 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.000 after that that we got used to this idea that 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.000 we might be in the very near future entering into 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:58.600 another major world conflict with the Soviet Union. And I 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:00.919 think at the time the most pressed thing issue was 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:04.439 how can we create a system where we have the 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:11.640 capability of throwing a switch and feeding Europe and fielding 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:14.840 this military. And so we just like, it wasn't that 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.080 we got lost our way. It's just that we had 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:21.479 a period where our priorities were completely different and we 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:23.239 and then some good things came out of it, like 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:26.120 that we would bank soil right, You'd have like farms 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:30.520 that were put out that when dairy prices dropped, rather 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.199 than having a dairy farmer go out of business, we 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:36.119 would subsidize them so that they could stay ready to 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.600 jump into action should the need occur. So now we 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.000 look at it. I feel like now we look at 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:44.800 were like we're getting away from that, We're getting away 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:47.520 from the industrialization. I feel like we always gonna keep 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.159 an open eye for the fact that it's just because 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:51.520 we have the luxury of doing that. But it wasn't 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:54.679 like evil people trying to do evil ship because just 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.280 people trying to get ready for a catastrophe which we 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:01.760 had just witnessed happened. No, it's true. And uh, you know, 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:04.960 we we operate within a very narrow little hole, right, 0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:07.800 so so so our you know, our ore are in 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:10.080 our little hole, you know, our little pond we were are. 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:13.520 Our focus is purely tastes, right, it's tasting along with 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:17.080 taste comes from others saying anyway, saying that you're guilty. 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:18.600 Why I just claimed. But I think that there's like 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:21.320 there's a way that when when we lose I think 0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:23.440 we lose sight of some of the motivations of how 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:25.639 stuff came to be and treated like it was just 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:29.080 bad decision making. Yeah, you like it's all just Monsanto 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:31.080 just trying to make next right, Yeah, but it's like 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.200 a lot of factors at play, right, Yeah, No, it's 0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:38.400 not just the evil uncle right then that yeah, but 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:40.520 but you yeah, but now just to get back to 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:43.000 where we are, Yeah, now, we do have at this 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:47.000 moment in time the luxury to have like to pursue 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:53.600 perfection and absolute ripeness and food rather than just shelf stability. Well, 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:56.200 there's also some really cool solutions too that you see 0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:58.760 coming around, right especially with with the age of technology. 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.439 There's there's a clue is loop agriculture systems that are 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:03.919 happening that produce you know, I think it's you know, 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:08.399 twenty x the volume of of product and in a 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:11.880 really small space, so you can put you know, one 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.560 of the most interesting ones is uh. You know, it's 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.600 completely closed loop. So what that means is really you've 0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:21.800 got you know, a little pot, a little capsule, and 0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:25.120 it's an artificial and growing environment, and you can fit 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:26.879 a ton of product in there. You can grow a 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:30.680 ton of product in a very small space. Um, you produce. 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:34.120 You can produce uh. I don't remember what the numbers were, 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.720 but I think it's roughly x uh the volume of 0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:41.280 food out of this little small space. You can also 0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:44.120 control the nutrient drink that goes in. You can control 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:46.920 the sun cycle, you know, all of those elements that 0:26:47.000 --> 0:26:49.800 go into growing food. And since it's closed loop, you're 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:52.679 basically recycling you know, all of that taste and all 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:57.800 of the nutrient drink. So um, and it's all computerized. Uh, 0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:00.880 and so you can basically, let's say you had uh, 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:04.760 you know, an artichoke that was perfect in uh two 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:07.639 thousand one in you know, Salinas, when that was the 0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.280 best arti shark you ever had in your life, you 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:11.440 could go you can go look up all of the 0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:14.159 historical data or all the weather data, and you can 0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:16.479 plug in those data points to this closed loop system 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.560 and you can basically replicate that exactly. So there's some 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:21.720 cool stuff coming out also, but that's in that would 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:26.040 have interesting implications for the wine world. Yeah, well see 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:28.439 the issue with that now. But the issue is that 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:30.840 you lose a little bit of what's called taroa right 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:34.520 you know, because you can still produce a delicious sweet plant. 0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:37.800 That's that's great, that's the way that you maybe like it. 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:44.320 But you can ever replicate really truly the taste of nature, right, 0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:47.720 It doesn't just it's not possible you can. So so 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:52.080 that's the downside of that. Where uh, where in your 0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:56.320 if we're in if we're checking back in on and 0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:58.840 on your biography, and at this point we kind of 0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:02.480 got you where you're here. You got a restaurant, you 0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:07.080 got a farm, Um, where did like you're sort of 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:09.840 a where did your re awareness of hunting come in? 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:12.200 Because you were like exposed to it in a way 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:14.040 in Florida and we're aware that it was the thing 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:16.800 people do. You'd like to run around out the wood, Yeah, 0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:18.200 you run around, you know, as a kid, you run 0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.879 around and there's Alegan run around with spears. Yeah, you know, 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:23.959 at least to try to hunt ut wild boars with spears. 0:28:24.119 --> 0:28:25.920 Never successful, but you know it was waiting the tree 0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:27.399 and try to throw a spear down. But it was 0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:29.960 it was more of a you know, just just being 0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:33.760 a kid, you know, trying to exactly you get some frogs. 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:36.199 You know, we get frogs and we uh, you know, 0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:39.720 eat some water moccasins and rattlesnakes and stuff. But but 0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:41.920 you know, it can't it came around because of products. 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:44.040 It's it's really taste. Right. At a certain point you 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:47.160 look at you start to dissect all of our practices, 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:50.480 you know, and all of our food practices, um and 0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:53.160 at a certain point realize is a chef that that uh, 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:56.720 you know, grain fed beef doesn't taste good anymore? Right, 0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.040 You start to notice, you know, it's a process. We 0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:01.440 start to notice the fact that that beef, you know, 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.680 or or meat in general, everything tastes like corn, or 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:09.280 everything tastes like shitty wheat, you know, or whatever it 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:13.480 may taste like. So, so the whole purpose was was taste. Really, 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:15.920 that's our whole purposes really taste. Right now, do we 0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:18.760 really you know, find a product that did is uh, 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:21.240 you know, like it once was or or or whatever 0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:24.040 our reference points are for a particular product, right like, 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:27.160 what is what is the most delicious uh meat? What 0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:31.080 is the most delicious lettuce? You know? And then so 0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:34.520 your experience is wild game kind of started to shape 0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:37.000 your impressions of what was possible and what could be 0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:40.600 done and what things would taste like variations. Well, I've 0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:43.200 been I've been getting uh, you know, we get we 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.200 get a lot of we get a lot of hunters 0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:46.520 here that give us meat, you know, get u s 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:49.040 wild ducks or or deer or whatever and just kind 0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:52.160 of donate it to me. And um, so been eating 0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:55.480 it for a few years out here. Um surprising. There's 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:59.600 a lot of hunters in California, or at least a handful. Um. 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.360 Some friends would pass long stuff you check out. They 0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:05.360 just passed along meat I eat here and duck and 0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:08.320 and um I got you interested. Well it just yeah, 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:11.440 it just it. It really re sparked that or reignited 0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:15.200 that spark, right, And uh, I mean wild ducks are 0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:17.760 really delicious, right and wild meats you know, really good. 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:20.360 We treat it the right way. So so at a 0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:21.960 certain point, I just want to get it myself, you know, 0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:23.720 I just I just wanted to. I wanted to, you know, 0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:26.920 have all wild meat. So there's the thing that happens. 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.960 Maybe you can explain this to me. When you're looking 0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:33.400 at when you're reading about chefs and reading about great restaurants, 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:38.920 you're always seeing that that anyone can produce I shouldn't 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:41.680 say anyone, but yeah, let's just say anyone can produce 0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:48.480 this great dish once, okay. But the true sign of expertise, 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:51.040 so like mastering your craft is that you can do 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:55.280 it seventy times in a night or whatever number of 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:57.480 times in a night and have it be the same. 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:01.640 And then you can do that for weeks, right, and 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:05.840 just like executed again and again and again. I don't 0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:08.320 know if you use that measure of success, but yeah, 0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:10.360 you're familiar with That's the thing people bring up when 0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:14.320 talking about being a great cook. But with wild game, 0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:16.040 you look at me like you've never heard I've never 0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:18.320 heard of that, to be honest, Yeah, I was reading that. 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:20.920 I was reading someone talking about that. No, I was 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:23.920 reading there a day someone saying I was reading a 0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:26.840 profile of chef in the New Yorker. Makes sense, And 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:30.440 it was a guy saying like, yeah, um, perfection to 0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:35.800 me is three eggs, like eggs benedict, without a mistake, 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:39.960 without one returned, without one customer return sure, like as 0:31:40.000 --> 0:31:43.920 as the craft of cooking goes. Yeah, so I hear 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:48.320 that now and then. And on the other hand, with 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:51.240 wild game, you're opening yourself up to such a tremendous 0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:56.320 amount of variability because they're not the same. You know, 0:31:56.760 --> 0:31:58.760 if you if you identified, like if you have a 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.280 farm and you're identified. Man, this this dude at this 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:05.720 farm produces some goodass lamb because he's got some breed 0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:10.160 of lamb that works well on the land where he 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:14.480 raises it. He's got a great irrigated pasture with like 0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:20.120 the right blend of forbes and grasses, and his alfalfa 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:23.080 is beautiful, and he's able to run this thing. And 0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:26.760 when I get a leg of land from him this year. 0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:29.000 It's great, I get a leg of land from him 0:32:29.040 --> 0:32:32.120 next year. It's great. That ship isn't what wild game 0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:35.680 is like. Well, because you shooting, you're shooting an animal. 0:32:35.920 --> 0:32:37.840 But you know, I don't know. I look, it looked 0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:39.720 like a good animal. I shot it, but I got 0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:43.080 over there and had recently crashed into a porcupine, so 0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:46.240 its entire belly was full of quills and every one 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.520 of those injuries was full of post. It was emaciated. 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:54.000 Or I shot it and wasn't the first guy that 0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.240 shot it, because it's back leg on the side not 0:32:56.480 --> 0:33:00.640 facing me had been injured by a it, and so 0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:03.440 you know, it was packed with dirt and it was 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:06.000 a mass. Or I killed some big crazy buck that 0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:08.960 had been rotting hard for two months and hasn't probably 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:12.520 eaten a liquor grass for two months, and tasted like ship. 0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:14.000 Or I shot a deer and it fell into a 0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:16.440 big sinkhole and I couldn't get it out till a 0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:19.080 couple of days later, with a rope and a buddy 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:24.479 holding my ankles. So I'm just saying that isn't like 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:27.800 this dude that produces these wonderful lambs time and time again, 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:31.680 it's like you can't there is like perfection is out there, 0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:35.920 but perfection isn't always out there. Yeah, I think like 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:37.880 we we killed like whatever it was going on that 0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:40.880 year in Idaho and we killed Yanni. We killed some 0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:42.880 stomper bucks in Idaho. And I don't know what was 0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:44.680 going on that year in Idaho, but that was like 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:50.440 it was the best mule deer meat ever. And I'm 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:53.000 eating a shipload of mule deer right and I don't know. 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:55.280 It defied everything you're supposed because supposed to be like 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:57.680 big giant bucks on taste. These are big giant bucks 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:01.000 pre rut that had two which is of tallow on 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:06.320 their back. And we're great. So that's my question, Well, 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:08.600 how do you deal with all the lack how do 0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:13.840 you deal with all the lack of consistency when you're 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:17.239 as a chef who's dealing with wild game and not 0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:19.440 just commercially produced wild game, but on your own, you're 0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:22.600 dealing with hunted wild game. Yeah, for us, For for us, 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:25.080 that's all. I mean, every product is like that, right, 0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:26.759 I mean the whole for us. You know, it's so 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:29.319 specialized that you know, when we get a radish in 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.319 one day from the farm, it's not necessarily the same 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:35.040 as the next day from the farm, right, so you 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:38.160 can you can you know, uh, you know, take that 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:41.120 theory with with any product that you use. Could be 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:43.719 the rain, could be you know, the amount of sun 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:45.920 you get in one day, could be uh, you know, 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.359 their diet. But every product changes a little bit every day. 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:51.799 So the way that we operate is we basically get 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:54.239 a product in the door, look at it, and then 0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:56.719 decide what to do from there. Because even if you're 0:34:56.760 --> 0:35:00.600 getting you know, that lamb, you know, maybe they forgot 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:03.360 to feed it one day. Who knows, maybe the lamb 0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:05.680 is sick, you don't, you don't know, right, So so 0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:09.520 everything changes just to touch, and even if it's just incrementally, 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:12.040 it still changes every day. And so our focus is 0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:14.960 really on kind of capturing that taste. So you know, 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:16.680 if we get uh, if we get a buck in 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:24.200 it's very um um bucky, then you know, you've got 0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.080 to decide what to do with it from there. So 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.200 do you grind it to maybe purge some of that 0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:31.839 flavor out? You know, maybe you throak in and salt 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:34.520 water for salted water for a few days, just to 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:36.720 kind of purge it and have have a clean flavor. 0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:39.920 Maybe it's like that that mule deer you've got and 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:41.960 just throw it right and grill. You don't even age it. 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:45.440 So it just depends. And so so our whole operating 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.759 system in the kitchen is based on really kind of 0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:52.400 assessing what the product is and then deciding, you know, 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:56.440 what methods to go through for preservation and so that 0:35:56.440 --> 0:36:00.360 that you know, select just selecting the right product is 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.239 is a huge part of it. But um, you know 0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:07.120 you can either for us, we either especially sparticularly meat 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:09.640 and game. You know, you either choose either use it 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:12.440 right there or there's some sort of continuation and the 0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:16.400 preservation process that happens. So whether it's aging or curing 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:20.160 or grinding into a sausage or whatever it may be. 0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:23.520 You know, it's just just like anything else. Can you 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:27.080 take this menu and do the many that you served 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:32.359 last night and do a sort of speed walkthrough? Uh yeah, 0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:34.960 I got one over here. Well I want people to 0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:37.040 get I want people to get a sense of of 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:41.560 what of what dishes you like to serve. Well, um, 0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:45.760 let's see you had a fistfull caviar, start white sturge 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:49.000 and caviar. It's white surgeon caviar. It's farmed, right, it's 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:51.120 farm caviar. But we we but that is a fish 0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:54.839 that that is a fish that a Felican fish for Yeah. 0:36:55.280 --> 0:36:59.000 In the Columbia drainage, they have like uh, you know 0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:05.239 they have see they have uh open seasons and within 0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:07.600 those seasons they have kill seasons. Were allowed to like 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:12.040 harvest sturgeon. We were making our own sturgeon caviare this 0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:15.200 year with a very abundant sturgeon called shovel nose sturgeon. 0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:19.759 But it's material in the Yellowstone River. Yeah, you're about 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:22.880 ten a day shovel noses and you get them in 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:25.680 the spring. They're about you know, a big one to 0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:27.839 be two and a half feet long. So, but they 0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:33.640 have caviar inside. Yeah, but it's it's like painstaking the eggs. Yeah, 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.960 we're gonna put it through a little sieve. You gotta 0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:38.759 just mess with it. No, there's nothing to save out. 0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:42.200 So when you open them up, when you get a female, 0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:46.200 you open them up and you know some fish have 0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:48.960 like the skein, right, the sack that holds the eggs 0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:52.040 like the most the easiest example of over egg to 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:55.719 clean would be salmon where you open up that skein 0:37:55.800 --> 0:37:57.040 and you can just kind of like the eggs just 0:37:57.080 --> 0:38:03.360 kind of fall away. On sturgeon, the skein and the 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:07.399 eggs are just like almost interwoven where each egg needs 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:10.560 to be kind of separated from the skein, and it's 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:12.520 it's painstaking, like you get it where you have a 0:38:12.520 --> 0:38:14.560 ton of it, and then we just cleaned it for 0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:16.920 a long time and they were like, dude, I can't 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.960 keep cleaning these eggs. And then we salt water the 0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.440 eggs and just ate them. You've seen you've seen the 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.319 commercial process a cavy are right, I have never seen 0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:27.120 how they do it. So they just take they take, uh, 0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:29.520 I mean it's the same, right, Maybe it's more on 0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.120 this like wild surge and shovel nose, but but on 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:33.759 you know, like a white sturge and you take the 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:36.319 caviar shack out, you throw it into a sieve and 0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:39.160 the sieve is you know, the right side for the beads. 0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.520 But but they just rub it. They rubb it pretty hard, 0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:43.160 and they rub it and then it breaks away all 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.440 the membrane and only the eggs based then they basically 0:38:46.480 --> 0:38:48.680 drop it in in a salted water bath and then 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:50.560 a lot of that stuff will well, a lot of 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:53.120 the membrane will float. You just lift it off and 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:55.760 then the caviars left over, and they repeat that process 0:38:55.840 --> 0:39:00.239 till it's clean. The shovel nosed sturgeon, uh there egg 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:02.840 is probably about this is this ballpark in it, but 0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:06.520 their eggs probably about half the diameter of a white sturgeon. 0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:10.320 There's another you know, there's also another sturgeon or another 0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:17.480 caviard that comes out of the Yellowstone is um paddlefish 0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:20.320 caviar which people collect and that's bigger and that's a 0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:22.960 high grade caviar. And then we used to get caviar 0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:25.520 out of uh you know, and there's even a commercial 0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:29.200 market for for white Great lakes. Whitefish have a pretty 0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:30.840 good caviar and that's the thing that people you know, 0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:32.920 it's rod and real angers can catch. The reason I 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:34.399 bring that up is not just like as you walk 0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:38.760 through this, I want to just establish what these things 0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:42.320 even though you're dealing with a commercially caught version or 0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:45.400 you're dealing with uh, you know, something that's in the 0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:48.759 commercial chain, right that can be legally purchased and soul 0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:51.239 in the restaurant that so much of what you're dealing 0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:55.280 with would also be identified as a type of wild 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.160 game because, especially in the ocean, pretty much anything you're 0:39:58.200 --> 0:40:02.600 buying for restaurants things that people can go catch on 0:40:02.640 --> 0:40:06.239 their own on sport fishing tackle. Right, So sturgeon, Uh 0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:08.560 though most people don't do it, most fishermen don't do it. 0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:12.560 Um producing caveat is something that just like anybody could 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:16.359 go do from a wide variety of fish. Yeah, they 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:19.239 got they did. They got a surgeon fishing out here. Yeah, 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:22.320 and there's some kill seasons. Wasn't Scott Peterson when he 0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:25.640 cut up his wife and dumped her in San Francisco Bay. 0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:27.760 Part of his defense was that he was sturgeon fishing 0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:29.000 When they asked him why he was out in the 0:40:29.040 --> 0:40:31.800 boat that day, did you know that? I have no idea. 0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:35.359 He did. And me and my fake uncle Donn used 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.080 to troll stripers in San Francisco Bay and we would 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:42.480 go right, it was baiting the sturgeon. So yeah, as 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:45.680 he was doing a chum line. Um. Yeah, me, my 0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:49.440 fake uncle don used to uh do some trolling for 0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:51.440 stripe bass out here in San Francisco Bay back in 0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:54.239 two thousand four, and we would just troll right in 0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:58.800 front of the jail. We're they we're Scott Peterson is 0:40:58.880 --> 0:41:03.440 housed the prison him. Yeah, what's it called. It's not 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:07.000 a San San Quentin. San Quentin. Yeah, yeah, they got 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:09.080 they got like watch towers. You we would, I'm not 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:11.160 shooting you. We would be trolling by. You'd wave at 0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:13.640 dudes and watched towers. I feel like there's some sort 0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:17.400 of environmental issues over there, maybe some waste or something. 0:41:17.680 --> 0:41:19.520 I was describing to be honest, that we would that 0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:22.480 I would say that those for for toxic fish, they 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:26.799 were delicious. So out of the next one turbot, Yeah, 0:41:26.880 --> 0:41:29.440 with diamond turbo. So diamond turbots is just a just 0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:33.440 a local, local species of turbo and a little it's 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:38.680 smaller for the most part, um but you can fish it. Yeah, 0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:41.640 and you brought that fish too. You showed me the 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:45.080 fish one of your guys that the fish was alive 0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:51.359 on a plate, like alive, alive and in it wasn't 0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:54.880 how how many minutes went by? Five six, and I 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:56.920 was presented with so one minute, the fish is there 0:41:56.920 --> 0:41:59.719 on my plate alive. I grabbed its jaw and it 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:03.000 was very flexible, and in a couple minutes later, I 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:09.320 had the liver two ways, well different his liver and 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:14.439 a different fishes liver two ways. You had made chitlands, right, 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:18.200 explain that. So you got so you you basically like 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.080 you know, on especially a fish like turbo, you've got, 0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:22.680 I mean, you could use almost the whole thing, right, 0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:24.960 every everything is good about it as long as you're 0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:27.160 you know, especially when it's alive a few minutes before. 0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:33.360 But um, the the guts, uh, the heart, the livers 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:37.319 and and and essentially the chiplands are the the intestines, 0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:40.680 the intestinal track and the stomach are all delicious. You 0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:42.920 just had to clean it properly. So we boil it 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:45.200 in salted water a few times, scrape it out, boil it, 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.960 scrape it out, boil it. Uh, and then once you 0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:52.400 chill it down, it's got this little you know, crunchy texture. Um. 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:55.160 But it was it was shocking to have that, Like 0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:58.160 how good it was? The delicious right? Yeah, the little 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:00.359 on sauce on there, we've got we've got the sauce 0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:03.319 called sas on sauce. It's a it's our it's our 0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:07.200 seasoning elixir. And it's like it's basically a brew uh 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:12.680 made of seaweeds, local seaweeds, local little silver fish, all 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:16.040 of the excess bones and trim and anything that we 0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:19.040 get from our fish. And then it's grilled or barbecued 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:22.440 or and then it's mixed together and it's basically inoculated 0:43:22.480 --> 0:43:25.239 with a with a bacteria, and then it's allowed to 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:27.880 culture and ferment and it turns into this kind of 0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:31.680 a lixir that's like the savory almost crossed between white 0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:34.319 soy and fish sauce. And so we season a lot 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:36.960 of things with that. You'll bathe that'll fish, you'll bathe 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:39.440 the fish and testines in that stuff. Yeah, but season 0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:41.359 a little bit in that season yeah. Yeah. And then 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:44.680 the livers we the livers are are are basically salted 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:47.799 or rinsed in salted water like a brine, right, because 0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:51.319 you've got to purge the liver um and uh, and 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:53.080 then you you salt the liver a little bit. And 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:56.360 then and then we um either poaching salted water, we 0:43:56.440 --> 0:43:58.920 grill it or we we you know, the version you 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:02.200 had was basically halted for about a week ranch and 0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:06.360 then put in uh a seasoning paste which is like 0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:08.200 stays on seasoning past. It's kind of like a misa 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:11.000 it's basically the same thing as a misa um. So 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:12.759 you had one version that was poached in one version 0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:15.880 that was salted and seasoned in our seasoning paste. And 0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:20.160 then the ribs slab explain what you do with the 0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:23.480 fish ribs or how the fish rib has become like 0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:29.840 a little serving tray grilled little rib yeah, yeah, uh so, 0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:33.759 uh yeah, I guess really the reason for that was 0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:36.920 because you know, the bones still have meat on it, right, 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:40.160 they have they have flavor, they have taste, so and 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:42.799 and typically all the little tail pieces anything you might 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:45.759 feel might be tough. You know, the connective tissue of 0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:49.000 the um. You know the skirts, the little a little 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:51.160 skirt around the outside of the fin, right basically the 0:44:51.200 --> 0:44:55.319 ship that nine percent of fishermen throwing the garbage. Yeah, 0:44:55.360 --> 0:44:57.200 it's and you know that stuff is full of flavor, 0:44:57.280 --> 0:44:59.320 like a lot a lot of those little little sweet 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:02.000 bits or you know that that's the sweetmeat to me 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:03.759 because it's full of flavor. It's the stuff that gets 0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:06.840 a lot of use. Um and that's all gets chopped 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:10.600 up and then basically mixed into this chopped seasoned mixture. 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:12.920 And then and then put back on the bone and 0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:15.600 then brushed with a sauce and then grilled, and so 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:19.399 it's like a little riblet. Do you know that? In 0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:21.040 and I see I'm sitting right next to one of 0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:24.759 the scopier's books. That's how a scopia would handle carp. 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:27.799 Ye know, in a lot of other countries, carper like 0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:31.279 a very popular food fish. And in fact they were 0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:33.719 introduced into the Great Lakes when when the Great Lakes 0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:40.400 fisheries were declining at like catastrophic rates. Um a fish 0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:43.320 cultural has had the idea that they would put common 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:46.040 carp into the Great Lakes to make up for the 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:49.840 loss of food fish from environmental destruction in the Great Lakes. 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:52.320 But it is obviously never caught out with Americans. Like 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:55.400 Americans don't like the generally speaking, Americans don't like to 0:45:55.400 --> 0:46:00.759 eat carp. But scopiers carp recipes would basically be that 0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:04.000 you poach to fish whatever you're gonna do to it 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:06.360 to be able to strip all meat off the bone. 0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:10.279 Then he would mix that with all kinds of good 0:46:10.280 --> 0:46:12.720 ship to eat. Right like you said, you're a little 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:15.480 you're a little chopped up combination you put on there. 0:46:15.560 --> 0:46:19.520 But he would mix it with butter cream truffles, and 0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:23.000 then lay the carp's tail and head down where they belong, 0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:28.640 and reform the fish's body out of this concoction that 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.560 he would make, and then putting new scales back on 0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:36.640 it and serve that as carp. And once you go 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:40.239 through all that, that carp becomes pretty damn good. But 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:42.160 it doesn't have a whole lot to do with carpet anymore. 0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:48.440 He just Yeah, it's like it tastes like a truffle. Yeah, exactly, 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:53.000 a creamy a creamy truffle kind of moose. Well, back then, 0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:56.320 you know, there's a lot of a lot of um masking, 0:46:56.440 --> 0:47:00.719 right because you guys, handling was a little different back then, right, 0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:03.520 And now we've got we have so much information that 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:07.239 we can we can uh, you know, we've learned from 0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:10.920 other other you know, cultures that like like Japan is 0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:13.760 a great example of handling, right where everything's just handled 0:47:13.800 --> 0:47:16.640 so well that the taste winds up being clean and 0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:20.080 kind of pure, right, like it the records. Yeah, it's like, 0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:22.440 I guess that's the way of putting it is. The 0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:26.000 way you're handling stuff that's so fresh, is you're just 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:29.520 trying like showcasing what the thing is. You're not using 0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:32.480 it to make some other thing out of it. Yeah, exactly, 0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:35.759 you're not doing like a radical transformation. What's good. It's 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:37.560 good enough to where you you don't need to write, 0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:39.200 there's no there's no need to you know, stuff it 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:41.560 full of troubles and cream because it already tastes the lessous. 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:43.319 You just can't, you know, you can't screw it up. 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:48.120 So the rib slabs, then you cook the tail. Yeah, 0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:50.600 yet you had the head, you had the tail. The 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:52.400 rib slabs and the head and the tail are basically 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:57.120 just just purged and salted water. Uh. And then we 0:47:57.120 --> 0:48:00.879 we poached them and then we grill them. So he's 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:02.680 poaching for a few minutes at the low temperature I 0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:05.839 think it's like sixty degrees just to set the head. Yeah. 0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:08.280 And so it basically cooks the head, you know, evenly 0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:11.359 all the way through and um and and loosens up 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:13.480 all the all the good bits like the little the 0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:17.040 lips and the connective tissue and the cart lit or 0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:19.440 whatever whatever is and whatever the makeup of the fishes. 0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:22.040 But it loosens all that stuff up. Um. And then 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:23.759 we grill it. And then you you just pull it 0:48:23.800 --> 0:48:25.880 all apart, right, so the whole thing falls apart basically, 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:27.720 and then all of that good stuff on the inside, 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:30.360 which is really one of my favorite pieces or my 0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:32.920 favorite bits, is you know, easily easy to get at. 0:48:33.480 --> 0:48:36.000 So on the like on the fish were eating last night, 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:39.480 we ate the head, the tail, the trim, the guts. 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:43.080 The hell do you guys do with the the flame 0:48:43.200 --> 0:48:45.279 the meat? Well that's what you ate in the little 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:48.840 bull with the flowers. So that's just served raw. Yeah, 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:51.960 that's just wrong. And then when you kill a fish. 0:48:52.239 --> 0:48:54.120 I learned this from my friend Helen Chow because I 0:48:54.120 --> 0:49:00.160 was out fishing with Helen Chow and her boyfriend John Um. 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:02.279 We're at this one time dicking around on a on 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:04.919 a fish and charter and the fish they would catch, 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:10.120 they would John would kind of sever the spine and 0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:15.759 then run a hunkle wire down the interior of the 0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:20.000 spinal cord to relax the fish. And I was explaining 0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:22.760 to you last night that in South America, I watched 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:26.400 amor Indians do that with big turtles that they would catch. 0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:28.920 Because if he was ever caught a snap turtle and 0:49:28.920 --> 0:49:32.319 you cut snap turtle's head off the heads very much. 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:34.960 We call it it's not alive in any kind of 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:38.879 sense of the word of being cognizant, but it's full 0:49:38.920 --> 0:49:42.240 of activity. The body is clenched up, and the body 0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:46.080 stays absolutely clenched up, and not like rigor mortis, for 0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:50.239 just like a nervous system clenched up for hours up 0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:53.000 to eight hours before I think finally relaxes and you 0:49:53.000 --> 0:49:55.719 can skin it. And they would do that practice e 0:49:55.840 --> 0:49:58.400 K G. May. I'm sure that's not the word they 0:49:58.480 --> 0:50:01.480 used down there, but they would say differently. They would 0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:05.680 remount the spine and just relax the whole animal, and 0:50:05.719 --> 0:50:09.640 you get the same effect by when the electoral shock 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:13.960 uh cattle doing the slaughter process. Little hit that thing 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:17.160 in the head with a captive bolt gun and I 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:19.279 can't remember if they then I watched them doing it 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:22.120 in a couple different places. They bleed it and then 0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:26.719 shock it, and that shocking relaxes the animal. But you're 0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:29.640 getting at something with fish, like can you explain the process. Yeah, 0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:32.000 we'll say it's not even just fish, it's also game 0:50:32.040 --> 0:50:33.600 to like. The way that I try to hunt is 0:50:33.640 --> 0:50:35.799 for pretty specific also, but I'll talk about fish first. 0:50:36.160 --> 0:50:39.400 So um uh, you know, it's it's it's basically just 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:41.560 neural death. You're basically just ruining the nerves so that 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:44.719 there's no reaction, continued reaction, right, So you basically, you know, 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:47.439 let's say, let's take the turbot for instance. Every fish 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:49.040 is a little different in the way you kill it, 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:50.840 but but the goal is really the same, and you 0:50:50.920 --> 0:50:54.240 get brain death and neural death, right or neural destruction, 0:50:54.280 --> 0:50:58.680 I guess. And uh and so uh you know you 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:01.480 you we we friends since you know, insert a knife 0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:04.840 right at the place where the head and uh, the 0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:08.759 spine meat and also the brain is and so it's 0:51:08.760 --> 0:51:12.319 basically just one one stroke, one kill, right, And then 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:14.400 we make a little decision on the back of the 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:16.799 tail through the spinal cord, you know, that's right, that's 0:51:16.840 --> 0:51:19.879 where he that's where John runs the wires the tail side. Yeah, 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:21.239 and so you grab the tail. It gives you a 0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:23.680 little handle basically, and grab the tail and you stick 0:51:23.760 --> 0:51:26.560 the wire on the neural cavity of the neural column. 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:28.600 Basically that goes, you know, all the way through the 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:30.920 spine of the fish, and you just run that up 0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:33.680 and down until it basically destroys the nerves and then 0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:37.440 the fish is limb and then preserves that. Yeah, and 0:51:37.440 --> 0:51:39.600 it just presert goes completely limp, and that preserves that 0:51:39.600 --> 0:51:42.680 texture in the fish, and the taste is very it 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:45.000 also to me, it also produced. It produces a really 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:48.800 a super clean taste, right you don't you don't, um 0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:52.240 you know there's something about an animal running away or 0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:56.760 or struggling that produces a different taste, right releases Uh, 0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:59.640 whatever releases in the system, and that tastes to me 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:02.840 is from right. Yeah, And you're gonna touch on hunting, 0:52:02.840 --> 0:52:04.799 and I wanted, like, I'm gonna preface what you're gonna 0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:06.640 say with and I'm not gonna like go after you 0:52:06.640 --> 0:52:10.319 about it or challenge about it. But what what this 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:14.040 man is about to say is a controversial notion. But 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:16.080 I'll let him. I'll let him speak to you talking 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:18.920 about head shooting. Yeah, head shots. Yeah, yeah, your head 0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:22.360 shot man. Yeah, absolutely so. Cent of the time I 0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:26.360 count among my head shooting. Uh associates you and my 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:30.080 friend Ron, Like, m M, no, I got another head shooter, buddy. 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:34.440 Isn't Tony a head shooter? I don't know? But he's 0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:38.759 like a a marine corps Oh that Tony, Yes, he is. 0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:42.799 You're right, he is. Yeah, yeah, you like to you 0:52:42.880 --> 0:52:45.839 like to do neural what do you call it? Neural death. 0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:48.080 It's the same thing. I mean, it's the same principle, really, 0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:50.279 but you gotta you gotta let me preface that with like, 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:52.960 if you're if you're not gonna put several thousand rounds 0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:56.160 through you know each each you know shot and in 0:52:56.360 --> 0:52:59.719 every way you can possibly practice, he probably shouldn't try 0:52:59.719 --> 0:53:03.320 shoot for a head, right, but because you're robbing yourself 0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:07.120 of your margin for error right well, into me. Even 0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:08.879 worse is that you're gonna injure it and it's gonna 0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:11.480 run away. Yeah, that's what that's the worst part, you know. 0:53:11.520 --> 0:53:13.440 I don't mean that. Yeah, I'm not worried about if 0:53:13.480 --> 0:53:16.560 it was like if every shot was either instant death 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:19.880 or a myths, there's no shot I would ever pass up. 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:25.880 It's the trouble is, you know, the trouble is in 0:53:26.440 --> 0:53:29.720 those ones that that fall in the gray area between 0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:32.400 those two extremes, Like when someone shooting at shooting at 0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:34.080 an elk with a bow and trying to hit it 0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:37.480 in the heart and they spine it and it drops 0:53:37.520 --> 0:53:40.279 and they're all excited. You could be like, well, I 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:43.239 would temper your excitement with the fact that you were 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:47.600 like eighteen inches off, And if you had moved that 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:50.440 eighteen inches off in other directions, you would have had 0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:53.040 a very different outcome. Yeah, but you happen to be 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:56.680 eighteen off in exactly the right spot, you know, well, 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:58.680 I mean, I guess my opinion is if you can't, 0:53:58.760 --> 0:54:01.479 if you if you don't feel confident with the shot, 0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:03.880 don't take it. I mean, that's that's like, if you 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:06.799 if you don't feel like you're guaranteeing yourself, you know 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:09.600 that you're gonna you're gonna your point of impact is 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:12.000 gonna be exactly where you think it's gonna be. Just 0:54:12.160 --> 0:54:14.680 don't shoot. Yeah, I'm with you. That's what people like, 0:54:14.719 --> 0:54:16.800 we've we've been asked many times like what's the what's 0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:21.480 the um what's an ethical shot an unethical shot? And 0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:24.440 after wringing my hands about that question a long time, 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:30.520 I was like, if you're surprised you got its ethical shot, 0:54:31.520 --> 0:54:33.560 if you want to be like, holy shit, I can't 0:54:33.560 --> 0:54:35.040 believe I got it that, I was like, you probably 0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:38.440 shouldn't have touched the trigger, but yeah, so so yeah, 0:54:38.719 --> 0:54:40.440 so we'll leave We'll leave that one there. But explain, 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:43.360 like what you're after, so provided it all the provided 0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:45.960 all that, then um, you're you're really after the same 0:54:46.000 --> 0:54:48.320 thing after with the fish, you know, you're you're basically 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:51.800 I'm shooting right behind the head where it meets the spine, 0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:55.920 and um and uh at that point it's going through 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.719 and the thing drops us dead. You know, at least 0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:02.040 I think it's dead. Well, if that happened, would be 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:04.520 pretty damn dead. Yeah, I mean it doesn't move afterwards, 0:55:04.560 --> 0:55:06.920 that's for sure. Do you have any thoughts on bleeding 0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:09.600 because I believe Ron doesn't say when he makes a 0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:13.040 good headshot he immediately runs up to it. And yeah, 0:55:13.080 --> 0:55:15.560 because the lung because it bleeds it. Because if you 0:55:15.800 --> 0:55:18.400 when you hit something through the lungs, you're like self 0:55:18.440 --> 0:55:21.440 bleeding it right. The blood's all gonna expel. There's no 0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:23.120 need to run up and then cut its throat because 0:55:23.120 --> 0:55:26.080 the bloods laying in the chest, cavity or all over 0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:29.200 the ground. I have a different opinion about blood and game. 0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:32.279 I think it's just hands. Well there there's so there's 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:34.600 an old French method. Let me hold you up for aeman, 0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:38.439 because finish what you're saying about, like why you would 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:41.839 bleed it after you hit in the head. Yeah, right, 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:43.239 because like you're saying, if you hit it in the 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:46.680 long or this is ron's thinking, if we it's legit thinking. 0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.799 I mean livestock. It's how they slaughter livestock. It's how 0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:52.719 they slaughter cattle, right, so that you're I guess that 0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:58.800 your meat is not full of blood the flavor of blood, 0:55:58.880 --> 0:56:01.160 and cut its throat and beat it. Yeah. So like 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:04.399 when when you're slaughtering cattle, they hit it with like 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:08.040 I mentioned earlier, somehow this came up electric electric Using electricity, 0:56:08.360 --> 0:56:10.000 you hit in the head of a captive bolt gun 0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:13.200 or in the old days of twenty two, and then 0:56:14.160 --> 0:56:18.680 right away, while it's still kicking on the ground, hoisted 0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:22.080 up near by the back foot and cut his juggler 0:56:23.400 --> 0:56:26.080 to expel the blood. I think that has to do. 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:30.400 It's also like shelf stability, yeah, and flavor issues. But 0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:33.480 go ahead, I mean, I'm I'm gonna i'll i'll like 0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:36.440 mostly defer to your judgment on the taste of it. 0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:39.160 You know, it's subjective. But there's a there's an old 0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:42.400 so you know about the there's an old French method 0:56:42.840 --> 0:56:47.120 where they suffocate like a bird like a pigeon for that. Yeah, 0:56:47.480 --> 0:56:50.919 and so the taste wines up being um pretty good. 0:56:51.120 --> 0:56:54.759 You know, it's it's different, but it's it's like, uh, 0:56:54.920 --> 0:56:58.360 it's bloody, it's spicy, but I like it. It's delicious. 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:02.200 And so I mean you really think about it. You know, animals, 0:57:02.520 --> 0:57:06.440 the meat is full of blood, right, so so you're 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:09.080 eating anyway, a little more blood's not gonna kill you, 0:57:09.200 --> 0:57:11.640 right so you know, I you don't you just take 0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:14.399 it as a given that blood has to get out, No, 0:57:14.440 --> 0:57:15.960 not at all, I don't think so. I mean, you know, 0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:18.480 at least the fish, like the fish you killed that night, 0:57:18.560 --> 0:57:21.040 you believe, definitely say fish that's a different story because 0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:25.000 fish has this uh very kind of fish blood has 0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:28.600 its very irony, kind of metallic taste. They don't want 0:57:28.600 --> 0:57:30.520 it all. And I think you know, old blood has 0:57:30.600 --> 0:57:33.520 that to some degree. But a lot of animal blood, 0:57:33.520 --> 0:57:36.280 like duck blood. You know, there's think about you know, 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:39.120 old French sauces like um, you know, duck blood in 0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:43.360 the sauce or or um in any any birds or 0:57:43.760 --> 0:57:47.240 uh um. I mean a lot of cultures across the 0:57:47.280 --> 0:57:49.720 world eat a lot of blood, right, blood. They don't 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:52.280 waste the blood here for some reason, you catch the 0:57:52.280 --> 0:57:54.520 blood and make blood sauceage with it or so I 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:56.640 like the blood personally, I think it's good. You just 0:57:56.680 --> 0:57:59.640 gotta you again, it's practices, right, it's it's handling and 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:02.640 practice says. But but has a lot of things too 0:58:02.680 --> 0:58:08.800 where you use the rabbit blood. Yeah, sauce. Yeah, that's 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:12.600 a good point. Yeah. So, um so anyway, what we're 0:58:12.600 --> 0:58:15.560 talking about headshots, Yeah, like what you're striving for the 0:58:15.640 --> 0:58:18.040 kids you may have, you know, wild game of kids 0:58:18.080 --> 0:58:20.080 you may essentially right now, that's that's what we're striving for. 0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:23.360 Were striving for that that instant death where it's basically 0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:27.560 there's zero suffering involved. And but even before that, one 0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:29.440 of the things that I've noticed is that if you 0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:32.160 go out there and you scare an animal and it's 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:35.720 running away or maybe you injure it, which I have 0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:39.400 before and I always feel horrible about, but um it's 0:58:39.440 --> 0:58:42.680 running away and then and then you finally get it, 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:45.360 it tastes different, the thing taste. It tastes totally different. 0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:47.480 So so for me, it's one of the things where 0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:49.600 you basically sneak up on something you know, you put 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:51.680 in the word put it enough work to actually harvest 0:58:51.720 --> 0:58:53.480 in a way where has no idea. You're there, you know, 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:55.680 it's eating some flowers, just like this bear that I 0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:58.280 just gone. You know it's it's sitting there eating dandelion 0:58:58.320 --> 0:59:01.680 flowers and the next thing is dead right shot, one kill, instant, 0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:04.480 It's done right. So to me, that's that's that's the 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:06.520 way I like that. Do you feel like it could 0:59:06.600 --> 0:59:09.920 not only affect the flavor, um, like the difference between 0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:13.240 an animal that's you know, hurried or rush scared versus 0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:16.760 you know, completely unaware, and as well as the uh, 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:22.200 the texture or sort of like the tenderness without a doubt, Yeah, 0:59:22.240 --> 0:59:24.320 without a doubt, if you I mean, it's it's the same. 0:59:24.320 --> 0:59:26.280 It's the same principle, like if you if that thing 0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:29.680 goes down right away and it's completely limped the second 0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:33.280 you know that bullet hits that, you know wherever, uh 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.520 it's limp, right, it's already relaxed. There's no there's zero 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:38.880 struggle involved in the process of the thing is left 0:59:39.120 --> 0:59:42.400 and the meat soft. Another reason I don't like that idea, 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:46.360 it's because I have all kinds of animal skulls around 0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:51.320 my house, and yeah, I would I wouldn't have that anymore. 0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:52.920 There's your beer right there. You take a look at 0:59:52.960 --> 0:59:54.880 that school. Well how did you get to put back 0:59:54.920 --> 0:59:57.400 together again? And never I never shot the skull. I 0:59:57.400 --> 0:59:59.840 shot right there behind the skull, so it's right in 0:59:59.880 --> 1:00:02.920 the neck piece, right right where the basically and I 1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:05.560 basically and putting my eye right on the back of 1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:08.000 that skull, right behind the year right and that's where 1:00:08.040 --> 1:00:11.480 I'm looking. Yeah, all right, man, We'll leave it at that. Now, 1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:14.680 box crab, what the hell? Why is there? Why? Why 1:00:14.840 --> 1:00:17.720 is uh box crab? Not a thing? Let me let 1:00:17.720 --> 1:00:20.200 me go back one second. The other thing is is 1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:22.439 the other the other way that I will shoot too 1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:24.520 if if I know that I can't, if I if 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:27.360 I really want to, you know, get that animal. And 1:00:27.440 --> 1:00:30.240 I know I can't make a perfect headshot as the 1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:33.280 eye shoulder right where the spine is, eye shoulder, the 1:00:33.280 --> 1:00:35.959 bullet splits apart, it shoots into everywhere and the same 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.320 same thing basically, but it gets familiar with that one 1:00:39.360 --> 1:00:41.720 and and I've I've gone for that a couple of times. 1:00:41.840 --> 1:00:46.360 And right one uh right when monolithic bullets started to 1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:51.000 be very started to become more popular. Um, you know, 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:56.000 solid copper bullets people. Yeah, and you should explain this 1:00:56.040 --> 1:00:58.160 because you follow this ship better than I do. Like 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:01.760 the barn. Yeah, Like like monolithic bullets became more popular, 1:01:01.760 --> 1:01:05.360 you started hearing way more people talk about high shoulder shots. 1:01:07.520 --> 1:01:09.760 Things punched right through right right, So a lot of 1:01:09.800 --> 1:01:12.520 people are getting there, like the pencil effect when it 1:01:12.560 --> 1:01:14.600 would just go through the you know, if they missed 1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:17.160 the entering rib, you know, they weren't getting that expansion 1:01:17.160 --> 1:01:20.360 they were used to in a you know, lead core bullet, 1:01:20.520 --> 1:01:23.400 jacket bullet, and so it was getting that pencil effect, 1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:25.640 and the deer was running a little bit farther than 1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:27.520 they were used to, And so I think they were 1:01:27.560 --> 1:01:30.920 moving their shot placement to that high shoulder. Which I 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:32.800 advocate that all the time because I think it's it's 1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:36.880 a pretty big uh target. Still, you know, you don't 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:39.000 have to aim that close to the spine. The spine 1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:42.280 actually sort of dips down behind the shoulders, so it's 1:01:42.280 --> 1:01:45.000 not like you're aiming, you know, only three inches below 1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:48.000 the top of his uh or yeah, below the top 1:01:48.040 --> 1:01:50.880 of his back there. But there's also up in that 1:01:51.000 --> 1:01:54.760 areas what's called the void. Yeah, dude, I listen, it's 1:01:54.760 --> 1:01:57.560 hard to make predictions about the future. I will die. 1:01:58.560 --> 1:02:01.400 I will live out my life hopefully and get really old, 1:02:02.080 --> 1:02:04.440 and then I'll die. And on my deathbed, if you 1:02:04.480 --> 1:02:06.520 said to me, hey man, what's a perfect shot placement, 1:02:06.560 --> 1:02:10.360 I'm still good, I'll be like, really, that's what you 1:02:10.360 --> 1:02:12.200 want to talk about right now? And then I'll say 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:13.760 but if if in fact, that is what you want 1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:16.760 to know, as I'm dying double lung, and I'll tell 1:02:16.760 --> 1:02:18.720 you why. The first time I shot ami with a 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:21.880 monolithic bullet, well, I was hunting New Zealand and I 1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:25.240 shot a stag with a monolithic bullet and it was 1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:27.400 pretty far out there, but not ridiculously far out there, 1:02:27.840 --> 1:02:31.600 and I was like, oh, should I missed? Okay, because 1:02:31.600 --> 1:02:35.880 he's running around, running these high's, chasing them around. And 1:02:35.920 --> 1:02:37.800 then a while later he kind of got where he 1:02:37.840 --> 1:02:41.200 looked like he wasn't feeling well, but still was like, 1:02:41.440 --> 1:02:43.240 you know, I'll keep chasing these highness. You know, I'm 1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:45.080 not feeling too well. And then all of a sudden 1:02:45.080 --> 1:02:47.880 got woozy and tipped over and it looked like someone 1:02:47.920 --> 1:02:50.520 had taken when I butchered it, it it looked like someone 1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:53.960 took a field tip arrow just an arrow with a 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:57.160 practice point on it and jabbed it through the chest cavity. 1:02:58.440 --> 1:03:00.360 So I've had this with pigs before. While boors it 1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:02.920 was down and down in southern California. You have to 1:03:02.960 --> 1:03:07.280 shoot all copper right, you can't shootnything. It's not copper steel. 1:03:07.280 --> 1:03:12.320 There's no let allout. It's condor zone. And so no, right, 1:03:12.600 --> 1:03:16.880 not yet. I think it's next year. It's definitely coming. Yeah. 1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:20.280 Um that's why I washed. Washington's real nice right now. 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:24.840 But um, you know, I've I've shot pigs where you know. 1:03:25.120 --> 1:03:27.000 There was a group of them and I and I 1:03:27.000 --> 1:03:31.040 shot three at three different pigs, and uh, I thought 1:03:31.040 --> 1:03:34.320 I completely missed. I was like, well they ran away. 1:03:34.360 --> 1:03:36.600 I was like, they just gone. I was like, I 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:39.240 don't usually miss because I don't usually take those shots. 1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:41.760 And I put in a lot of practice, and uh 1:03:41.840 --> 1:03:45.600 in any way, we uh we saw one running away. 1:03:45.680 --> 1:03:47.480 He ran up the hill, little one and then he 1:03:47.560 --> 1:03:50.640 dropped dead. And then so I was okay, I did miss. 1:03:50.640 --> 1:03:52.480 So then we started looking for the other two pigs. 1:03:53.120 --> 1:03:54.680 Found all three. But in the end it was the 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:57.080 same thing, that little puncture that went straight through they 1:03:57.080 --> 1:03:59.440 were all they were all straight through the lungs right 1:03:59.440 --> 1:04:01.840 by the heart. They just keep going. It doesn't it 1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:04.600 doesn't have that terminal, uh, you know, damage right, No, 1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:06.440 And then I got onto the after that, I got 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:10.400 into the whole high shoulder scene. But again I hit like, 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:14.480 remember that when we're hunting musk cocks. M hm, dude, 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:16.360 he didn't even give it ship to that. It's like, 1:04:16.720 --> 1:04:20.640 I just feel like it's imperfect. You could speak to it. 1:04:20.680 --> 1:04:24.120 I don't care. No, But you remember that you said 1:04:24.200 --> 1:04:27.560 you did pull forward just a little bit because I 1:04:27.600 --> 1:04:30.520 was worried about you about hitting another animal, and so 1:04:31.760 --> 1:04:34.600 you like you personally, you know, judge and put it forward. 1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:36.600 But I feel like with the long shot too, you 1:04:36.640 --> 1:04:38.720 can be off the lungs in the back and all 1:04:38.720 --> 1:04:40.760 of a sudden you're you know, into the liver, which 1:04:40.800 --> 1:04:43.360 animals go a long way when they've got a bullet 1:04:43.360 --> 1:04:45.360 through their liver, and you go farther back and you've 1:04:45.440 --> 1:04:47.320 just gone, you know, straight through the paunch and good 1:04:47.400 --> 1:04:49.760 luck finding that. Well, look, at the end of the day, 1:04:50.080 --> 1:04:52.320 if you know for sure you're gonna make the shot, 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.360 it's ethical. Yeah, all right. I want to be confident. 1:04:56.360 --> 1:04:57.880 I want to keep marching down things. I want to 1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:02.320 talk about some other stuff box crab. What okay, if 1:05:02.320 --> 1:05:06.000 you went out and asked Joe blow, Joe blow, dude 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:09.280 who eats at Red Lobster or whatever? Uh, just as 1:05:09.280 --> 1:05:11.720 Red Lobster sttle business. I don't know, but I just 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:13.720 read something about get somebody getting food poisoning there the 1:05:13.760 --> 1:05:15.240 other day when I was a kid, I'm telling you, 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:17.520 what if you were going out to that was the 1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:22.080 pinnacle of a fancy dinner like on prom night, just 1:05:22.120 --> 1:05:25.880 like dudes would take to take your high school girlfriend 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:27.960 down the Red Lobster and you were like tearing, you 1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.919 were set in the stage man and listen, guys out there, 1:05:31.000 --> 1:05:33.120 if that was that's your plan, or you just did that, 1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:35.439 took your lady out there like a couple of weeks 1:05:35.480 --> 1:05:38.120 ago and it was prom night. Uh, we're not We're 1:05:38.120 --> 1:05:39.920 not dogging. I'm not dogging it at all. I'm just 1:05:39.920 --> 1:05:41.560 saying I don't know if there's still I don't know 1:05:41.600 --> 1:05:45.120 how Red Lobs are still kicking as or not. Yeah, no, 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:47.640 I think they're still around. Well just just let me 1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:49.920 let me also help with anybody out there may get 1:05:49.960 --> 1:05:53.320 food poison from Red Lobster. I got food poison one time. 1:05:53.400 --> 1:05:55.800 From some sort of bio disease and the and the 1:05:55.840 --> 1:05:58.160 oysters here in the Bay Area, and I was, I 1:05:58.200 --> 1:06:00.440 was like, I was really sick, man, I I ate. 1:06:00.520 --> 1:06:02.120 I don't know how many oysters I ate that day, 1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:06.360 but but they're contaminated with something and um and uh 1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:07.920 so I was. I was at the point where I 1:06:08.000 --> 1:06:10.160 was like sick for hours and I was dry heating. 1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:12.920 There's no liquids left in my body. Went to the hospital. 1:06:12.960 --> 1:06:14.760 They gave me this little ivy thing and a pill 1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:19.160 felt better than like ten minutes. Yeah, listen, Yeah, the 1:06:19.160 --> 1:06:21.520 fact it obsessed me that you even insinuate that I 1:06:21.600 --> 1:06:23.720 was dogging on Red Lobster, because if you were the 1:06:23.800 --> 1:06:26.560 number line out on a one to ten number line 1:06:26.560 --> 1:06:28.439 out on the quality, like if you took a week 1:06:28.480 --> 1:06:30.920 and be like, Okay, what quality of foods does this 1:06:30.960 --> 1:06:34.520 person consumed during a week? If I Red Lobsters, be 1:06:34.560 --> 1:06:38.160 like on the five mark not do you way? Yeah, 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:40.280 I think I'm dog on a Red Lobster. I just 1:06:40.320 --> 1:06:44.280 haven't been following. I just haven't been following whatever the 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:46.880 scene is over at Red Lobster right now. But box 1:06:47.040 --> 1:06:51.040 what else makes my damn point? People know that there's 1:06:51.080 --> 1:06:56.040 good crabs right, and they're like snow crab, dungeoness crab, 1:06:56.560 --> 1:07:02.360 blue crab, king crab. And there's a redundancy here like 1:07:02.440 --> 1:07:07.400 tanners or snows right. Tanner Tanner is another word check that. 1:07:08.360 --> 1:07:10.160 I think a tank. I think when you hear Tanner, 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:14.080 it's a there's there's a redundancy. I'm not thinking clear 1:07:14.160 --> 1:07:17.479 right now. There's a redundancy in that list. But your 1:07:17.520 --> 1:07:20.720 favorite crab is a crab that doesn't fall on the 1:07:20.760 --> 1:07:24.240 list of super good crabs. That's because nobody knows about it. 1:07:24.400 --> 1:07:26.600 You think that's fishermen don't even really fish. When I 1:07:26.640 --> 1:07:28.560 came in and I looked at that tank of crabs, 1:07:29.040 --> 1:07:32.760 I thought you had a bunch of dungee bodies in there, 1:07:33.400 --> 1:07:36.320 legless dungee bodies because of the way they suck their 1:07:36.400 --> 1:07:38.280 legs in. Yeah, they box up, that's what you got 1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:40.760 the name. Basically, they basically pull in all their extremities 1:07:40.760 --> 1:07:45.720 and it forms like a perfect shape into the around 1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:49.520 their shell. They're not so they don't cost nearly what 1:07:49.680 --> 1:07:53.440 a They gotta be way cheaper than a dungeoness. Oh no, 1:07:53.560 --> 1:07:56.800 they're they're more expensive because nobody fishes them. I mean, 1:07:56.840 --> 1:07:59.480 you got it's it's a boutique fishery basically. So I've 1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:02.400 got a fisher men who have to pay you know, uh, 1:08:02.640 --> 1:08:06.040 you know, X amount of expenses to just to get 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:07.880 you know, the stuff we want, right, so it winds 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:09.480 up being a little more expensive. So how did you 1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:11.760 come to like prefer box crab and not be like 1:08:11.800 --> 1:08:14.560 helly man. Everybody knows that King Crab is the best 1:08:14.600 --> 1:08:16.679 crab in the world or Dungeoness is the best crab 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:18.519 in the world, like you just don't see box crab 1:08:18.520 --> 1:08:21.519 around commercially. First of all, we we we try to 1:08:21.560 --> 1:08:25.320 just use everything just from right here. Okay, you know, 1:08:25.360 --> 1:08:27.559 we'll take it all. It's it's West Coast because it 1:08:27.600 --> 1:08:30.000 makes sense for us in terms of taste. So everything 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:33.799 you can pull from BC down to south of here, yeah, exactly, 1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:36.160 down to like Santa Barbara basically, and so that's all 1:08:36.280 --> 1:08:39.160 that's all relatively the same environment, right more or less. 1:08:39.160 --> 1:08:42.920 I mean there's obviously some variation, but but um, northerly 1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:49.160 northerly Pacific waters, yeah exactly. Um, but you know, we 1:08:49.160 --> 1:08:51.679 we just get we get random stuff from our guys, 1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:54.240 whether it's our gatherer or our you know, which gathers 1:08:54.280 --> 1:08:57.120 our forger and um. Whether it's our fishermen or whatever 1:08:57.160 --> 1:08:58.680 it is, they bring us a bunch of stuff, you know, 1:08:58.720 --> 1:09:02.439 all the time, random things and um. And so we're 1:09:02.479 --> 1:09:06.040 constantly kind of exploring, you know, what are these Uh, 1:09:06.160 --> 1:09:08.639 what can we grow? What can we find? Uh? There's 1:09:08.640 --> 1:09:10.720 a lot of stuff out there, especially in fisheries that 1:09:10.760 --> 1:09:14.160 aren't fish, because everybody is so focused on one kind 1:09:14.160 --> 1:09:18.160 of commodity, you know, a good that that everybody's gonna 1:09:18.200 --> 1:09:21.880 you know, basically pilfer you know, the entire salmon population, 1:09:22.439 --> 1:09:24.519 you know, until there's no more left because they get 1:09:24.520 --> 1:09:27.040 a higher price. But then there's twenty other species out 1:09:27.080 --> 1:09:31.519 there that are actually really delicious. They're underutilized and completely underutilized. Yeah, 1:09:31.560 --> 1:09:33.800 like another dish. And this is the thing I've been 1:09:33.840 --> 1:09:37.720 harpened on for people to live you know, in the 1:09:37.760 --> 1:09:40.479 Pacific waters is what I what I feel it's gonna 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:44.320 be like the most underutilized. Now that being underutilized is 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:47.760 a bad thing, but the sea cucumber being a thing 1:09:47.920 --> 1:09:52.000 that's just like like in my mind underutilized, Well, it's 1:09:52.040 --> 1:09:53.519 you know, it's it's like I feel like it's a 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:57.000 like a challenging thing for people to to get past 1:09:57.080 --> 1:10:00.320 because it's you know, it's it's slimy. It looks anasty 1:10:00.479 --> 1:10:04.200 to some people, and and but you know it's it's 1:10:04.280 --> 1:10:06.559 it's kind of a hidden treasure. In my opinion, it's 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:08.720 delicious once you treat it the right. Yeah, it's just 1:10:09.320 --> 1:10:11.840 did you guys like that, you caucumber last? It's great, 1:10:11.840 --> 1:10:14.160 Man's delicious. It's not the way we do them. I know, 1:10:14.360 --> 1:10:18.080 you don't fry anything. You fry anything. We grill fry. 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:20.840 So our whole our you know, our whole um kind 1:10:20.880 --> 1:10:23.599 of ethos is all fire cooking. So if you noticed, 1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:26.360 you know, every single thing you had was cooked over 1:10:26.360 --> 1:10:28.639 the fire in some way, some manner, and so all 1:10:28.640 --> 1:10:31.679 of the methods that we used to use for regular cooking, 1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:33.560 we've now created a way to cook it over the 1:10:33.600 --> 1:10:35.439 fire in the same way. So when we fry something, 1:10:35.640 --> 1:10:38.120 what it's called grill fry. And so let's say you 1:10:38.120 --> 1:10:42.840 have a flower and we'll coat this flower the like 1:10:42.840 --> 1:10:45.519 a like a floral flower, right, and uh, we'll code 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:48.719 it in a batter, it was a specific batter, and 1:10:48.960 --> 1:10:52.080 we will let it dry a little bit, and then 1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:56.200 we have perforated pants. They're just like sautee pants, and 1:10:56.240 --> 1:10:59.840 so we'll we'll we'll then take the dried the code 1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:04.519 dried semi dried rather or at least the batter's fried flour, 1:11:05.000 --> 1:11:07.360 and then we'll we'll brush the pan with the oil 1:11:07.680 --> 1:11:09.720 and then brush the flower with the oil and then 1:11:09.760 --> 1:11:13.080 throw it on the grill. So it's basically ceiling that 1:11:13.120 --> 1:11:14.880 batter around the outside. And so you wind up with 1:11:15.280 --> 1:11:17.599 what we call grill fry. Do you call that your 1:11:17.640 --> 1:11:22.360 heart over there? Yeah? Yeah, okay, So we're gonna take 1:11:22.400 --> 1:11:24.000 a we'll take a picture just to put it up 1:11:24.000 --> 1:11:27.720 in the show notes so you can go check it out. Um, 1:11:27.800 --> 1:11:30.559 you got a horror thalnel was like six ft wide, 1:11:31.000 --> 1:11:35.679 it's eight ft plus um six ft yeah, and different sections. 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:38.200 You gotta fire going in there and what and what 1:11:38.240 --> 1:11:42.160 would you you know, you said you'll burn some almond, almond, uh. 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:44.960 Fruit woods of different kinds depending on the season. So 1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:47.400 if you have, you know, for instance, fake season right now, 1:11:47.600 --> 1:11:50.040 So we'll take fig wood and we'll grill a thig 1:11:50.080 --> 1:11:52.559 dish over the fake wood. And so we use that 1:11:52.640 --> 1:11:56.439 kind of layering method for different fruits. Could be apple, 1:11:56.479 --> 1:11:58.559 could be quinns, could be pair whatever it is. And 1:11:58.600 --> 1:12:00.360 when I came in here this morning. You about a 1:12:00.400 --> 1:12:02.439 rick of wood stacked outside of your front doorway and 1:12:02.479 --> 1:12:05.080 to come inside. So they got a fire, they got 1:12:05.120 --> 1:12:08.559 like a rip, like a camp fire burning in your kitchen. 1:12:09.560 --> 1:12:12.400 And as I was eating, I was looking over there 1:12:12.400 --> 1:12:14.360 and imagining that I would walk over and be like 1:12:14.400 --> 1:12:17.559 this giant grill set up with a big gas fire 1:12:17.600 --> 1:12:20.439 and a grill way over it. But what the guys 1:12:20.439 --> 1:12:24.559 are doing is there's a camp fire burning, and they're 1:12:24.680 --> 1:12:32.760 shoveling out little like little shovel piles of amber. Feel 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:36.240 like you're miss setting the camp fire, because right, there's 1:12:36.280 --> 1:12:39.599 more not a camp fer. There's no one camping. Yeah, 1:12:39.680 --> 1:12:41.479 but it's not, it's not. How is it different than 1:12:41.520 --> 1:12:43.400 the fire you build if you built a fire anywhere? 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:49.320 Tell us so it's the fire, non relatively, I think. 1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:53.799 So now we're just burning down a bed of ambers, 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:59.200 basically that the fire is devoted. Yeah, okay, Yanni's tin camp. Okay, 1:12:59.360 --> 1:13:01.920 all right, I'll tell my version. You tell your version, 1:13:01.960 --> 1:13:06.000 all right, you gotta damn fire. Would burning in a 1:13:06.080 --> 1:13:10.160 fire that was remarkably similar to how one might think 1:13:10.200 --> 1:13:13.760 of as a camp fire, right, it's not in a 1:13:14.080 --> 1:13:16.760 It's just burning in the corner. Right, my wrong, m 1:13:16.760 --> 1:13:20.559 my right right, And you're your cooks who are working this. 1:13:21.479 --> 1:13:24.000 Take what it looks like the kind of shovel if 1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:26.320 you had a fireplace and you had like a little 1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:29.040 shovel to shovel out ash out of your fireplace periodically. 1:13:29.080 --> 1:13:33.280 They have one of those, and they scoop out a 1:13:33.320 --> 1:13:37.799 pile of embers, it's not even a court of embers 1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:43.759 and make a little ember bed bed and have little 1:13:43.920 --> 1:13:46.120 grates that they have sitting over that ember bed, and 1:13:46.160 --> 1:13:49.200 that's what they're working on, or any any utensil. So 1:13:49.240 --> 1:13:53.760 we have perforated pans, we've got grades, we've got uh, skewers, 1:13:54.760 --> 1:13:57.240 a variety of different tools that we used to cook 1:13:57.360 --> 1:14:00.800 over the ambers. And the amber bed is not more 1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:04.439 than two inches deep and probably not that and maybe 1:14:04.439 --> 1:14:07.080 a square foot, yeah, depending on what you're cook depending 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:08.880 on what you're doing. So there's a lot of I 1:14:08.880 --> 1:14:12.200 mean basically the majority of the cooking is done near 1:14:12.360 --> 1:14:15.040 the fire and over the ambers. And then you got 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:17.800 your racks way the hell above the fire, right where 1:14:17.800 --> 1:14:19.920 you just got all kinds of ship stacked up there. 1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:22.599 And give an example of like uh, you know, like 1:14:22.720 --> 1:14:28.200 uh so we you dehydration, right, dehydrate u um whatever. 1:14:28.840 --> 1:14:32.160 So for us let's give me for instance, let's use 1:14:32.520 --> 1:14:34.360 there's a dish that's well known that we do that's 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:37.400 called brasicas. And so it's a bunch of Braska leaves. 1:14:37.400 --> 1:14:40.960 Things in Nebraska family could mustards, you know, cabbages, whatever, 1:14:41.320 --> 1:14:45.920 broccolia and uh so you take the leaves and we 1:14:46.000 --> 1:14:48.200 basically lay it out flat and maybe brush a little 1:14:48.280 --> 1:14:49.880 light amount of oil on there and then lay it 1:14:49.880 --> 1:14:52.320 out flat on a rack and then we'll put it 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:55.840 over almost imperceptible heat, just a really a scattering of 1:14:55.880 --> 1:15:00.120 ambers where it's probably over for it's probably over or 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:03.439 four ft above that. Well, that's that's a different thing. 1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:05.720 That's that's what we call fire in the sky. So 1:15:05.720 --> 1:15:08.639 that's a different method. It's like a different different type 1:15:08.680 --> 1:15:11.479 of dehydration where it's where slowly getting smoked, but it's 1:15:11.479 --> 1:15:16.360 a similar it's a similar thing, um different outcome. And 1:15:16.640 --> 1:15:18.760 so this is just you know, above a little bed 1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:21.519 maybe three inches above. It's on a rack, a bunch 1:15:21.560 --> 1:15:23.960 of leaves and it just slowly kind of absorbs the 1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:26.880 flavor of the fire and it gets dehydrated. So that's 1:15:26.920 --> 1:15:28.800 one example of and it's like a chip and you 1:15:28.800 --> 1:15:31.639 can just eat it like potato chips after but it's 1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:34.160 also has that like beautiful sweet smoke from the fire. 1:15:34.960 --> 1:15:37.240 So that's one example like really low cooking. And then 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:39.360 and then you know, for meat, for instance, what we'll 1:15:39.360 --> 1:15:41.360 do is we'll temper we'll we'll get a chunk of 1:15:41.439 --> 1:15:44.280 meat out right, and we'll we'll temper it near the fire. 1:15:44.360 --> 1:15:47.960 So it's already slowly starting to accept the heat, right, 1:15:48.040 --> 1:15:50.240 and it's and it's, uh, you know, we pulled out 1:15:50.240 --> 1:15:52.840 of the out of the aging room, let it come 1:15:52.840 --> 1:15:55.640 to room temperature, put it near the fire, okay, and 1:15:55.640 --> 1:15:57.880 it's so it's slowly already starting to accept the heat 1:15:57.880 --> 1:16:01.000 a little bit, right, and it's softening and it's developing 1:16:01.200 --> 1:16:04.439 more flavor, right. Uh. And then we'll throw it on 1:16:04.479 --> 1:16:06.639 a bed of ambers, which is, you know, however big 1:16:06.640 --> 1:16:09.559 the product is, and the height of the bed depends 1:16:09.600 --> 1:16:11.960 on the heat that we want, and then the distance 1:16:12.280 --> 1:16:14.640 from the top of the ambers to the bottom of 1:16:14.680 --> 1:16:17.280 the product is also depending on how long we want 1:16:17.280 --> 1:16:19.120 to cook it for, how much you know heat be want, 1:16:19.240 --> 1:16:23.479 or how hard we want to sear it or whatever. Right, Yeah, 1:16:24.000 --> 1:16:27.240 so okay, talk about those quail. How long do you 1:16:27.400 --> 1:16:30.920 so you gotta plucked quail? How long do you age 1:16:30.920 --> 1:16:34.559 a plucked quail for six days? At forty five degrees 1:16:34.720 --> 1:16:36.679 in a room with a lot of circulation, a lot 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:39.680 of air circulations, the keys that you've gotta have. You've 1:16:39.680 --> 1:16:42.360 gotta have air circulation all the way around these meats, 1:16:42.360 --> 1:16:44.400 so that you're starting you're starting to dry it, but 1:16:44.800 --> 1:16:47.080 you want the humidity to also be high enough to 1:16:47.080 --> 1:16:49.960 where it doesn't dry out too much. Right, So that's 1:16:49.960 --> 1:16:53.160 about the perfect room. Perfect room. It's forty five or 1:16:53.160 --> 1:16:57.080 so degrees in six days, and that coil sits there plucked, 1:16:57.120 --> 1:17:01.000 just gutted and plucked for six days. Yeah, and then 1:17:01.240 --> 1:17:03.840 you grilled the quail. And I've grilled like a mess 1:17:03.840 --> 1:17:06.240 of quail. And I was telling you that when I 1:17:06.280 --> 1:17:09.160 grill a quail, I grilled that quail for not ten minutes. 1:17:11.040 --> 1:17:14.760 You grill your quail for two hours. Yeah, really really 1:17:14.800 --> 1:17:17.559 low heat in and out of the heat, right in 1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:19.400 and out. So you're basically that's you know, it's an 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:21.519 in and out method of of roasting meat to where 1:17:21.520 --> 1:17:25.760 you're basically exposing the meat to uh. Depending on how 1:17:25.840 --> 1:17:29.120 much fat content is meat, um let's say for this quail, 1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:33.519 for instance, you know, medium heat for just a very 1:17:33.520 --> 1:17:35.639 brief period time, and you take it off the heat 1:17:35.720 --> 1:17:38.360 and you let it rest out its residual. You know, 1:17:38.560 --> 1:17:41.800 heat really has the opportunity to spread throughout the entire 1:17:42.160 --> 1:17:44.360 piece of meat. And then once it comes down to 1:17:44.640 --> 1:17:47.320 basically tep it or room temperature where there's no more 1:17:47.360 --> 1:17:49.720 cooking happen, than you repeat that process over and over 1:17:49.760 --> 1:17:52.880 again and you wind up. What I have never said 1:17:52.920 --> 1:17:55.559 this is, this is the most surprising thing that that 1:17:55.600 --> 1:18:01.160 you cook. Is it you wind up with? It's like 1:18:01.439 --> 1:18:04.760 the texture that you can tear the bird apart. Okay, 1:18:05.080 --> 1:18:07.200 it breaks apart like it breaks apart, like how bird 1:18:07.200 --> 1:18:10.600 should break apart. It's cooked. But the texture is you 1:18:10.640 --> 1:18:15.439 achieve a texture that's more like raw coail but not 1:18:15.479 --> 1:18:20.160 flabby though, no, but it still has a translucent to it. Right, 1:18:20.400 --> 1:18:23.200 it doesn't turn into like it doesn't turn into your 1:18:23.280 --> 1:18:30.040 classic like white stringy. Yeah. Yeah, it's still it's translucent 1:18:30.160 --> 1:18:34.920 down to the bone and definitely not raw, but has 1:18:35.000 --> 1:18:37.800 like almost like a cired quality to it. Well, here's 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:40.559 what we're doing. Basically, you're basically you're you're you're not 1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:44.840 only allowing it to age. Those those oils start to Uh. 1:18:45.200 --> 1:18:46.840 First of all, some of the moisture comes out of 1:18:46.840 --> 1:18:49.600 the bird, right, And then when you're going back and 1:18:49.640 --> 1:18:52.160 forth on the heat like that, you're getting all that 1:18:52.200 --> 1:18:54.519 moisture to move around a little bit, but you're not 1:18:54.560 --> 1:18:56.559 putting on so high of the heat that you're forcing 1:18:56.600 --> 1:18:59.160 it out, right, So that stuff is just moving around 1:18:59.160 --> 1:19:02.160 and there gently, and eventually it just rests out and 1:19:02.200 --> 1:19:05.360 rests over to where it's that it's cooked, but it's 1:19:05.360 --> 1:19:08.640 not overcooked. Yeah, oh yeah, I forgot. We're gonna come 1:19:08.680 --> 1:19:11.120 back to you know, you're gonna offer the more accurate 1:19:11.240 --> 1:19:14.240 version of the damn fire. I'm curious about this. Actually, well, 1:19:14.240 --> 1:19:16.200 when I saw the fire that when I saw two 1:19:16.240 --> 1:19:18.600 things that I was gonna ask about. Actually one the 1:19:18.640 --> 1:19:23.479 campfire that Steve was referring to, I went, I doubled 1:19:23.520 --> 1:19:25.639 around and said, it's not the camp art's fire if 1:19:26.040 --> 1:19:29.080 he's referring to that was in the right back corner, right. 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:33.479 I just felt like there was an intense management of 1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:38.800 that fire. That and you're saying campers don't manage their fire, sure, 1:19:38.840 --> 1:19:40.479 we just how just imagine the fires just like this, 1:19:40.640 --> 1:19:42.760 like pile of wood that's on fire, and there may 1:19:42.840 --> 1:19:44.439 or may not be a bunch of members or whatever, 1:19:44.479 --> 1:19:46.920 but this was like two or three pieces of wood 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:51.599 were being very carefully managed to extract those embers. Yeah, 1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:54.639 here's the difference. But yeah, you're right, and um, yeah, 1:19:54.640 --> 1:19:56.280 that's something I don't even notice that really, I don't 1:19:56.280 --> 1:19:58.799 even think about that consciously. But basically, you know, you're camping, 1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:00.640 you want the flame. You're out there, you want to 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:02.559 flame you when you heat from the flame. For us, 1:20:02.640 --> 1:20:05.200 we want the ambers. So we're we're basically positioning the 1:20:05.240 --> 1:20:07.080 way to where it's all piled on top of each 1:20:07.120 --> 1:20:09.000 other so that you can stick a shovel in there 1:20:09.000 --> 1:20:10.639 and harvest the ambers when you need it. And you're 1:20:10.640 --> 1:20:15.439 pulling out you're pulling out, are you? Are you guys 1:20:15.479 --> 1:20:18.519 crushing the embers a little bit, but that's pulling out 1:20:18.560 --> 1:20:22.280 like centimeter like square centimeter embers. Yeah. So that's why 1:20:22.320 --> 1:20:25.400 we chose almond wood because it burns down almost perfectly. 1:20:25.600 --> 1:20:27.240 But a lot of wood does too. If you just 1:20:27.560 --> 1:20:29.519 if you just manage the fire like you're like you 1:20:29.840 --> 1:20:32.679 just talking about, so you have you know, we've got 1:20:32.720 --> 1:20:35.320 that little fire of you know, under the amber pile. 1:20:35.400 --> 1:20:38.479 Let's say, imagine, is I don't know, four to six 1:20:38.560 --> 1:20:41.880 pieces of wood all burnt down, and then you've got 1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:44.840 another maybe two or three on top to just regulate 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:47.679 that bed of ambers, so it keeps it glowing hot 1:20:47.720 --> 1:20:50.040 the whole time. So I've got some flame going on. 1:20:50.840 --> 1:20:53.280 So you're not you're not like you're not grading out 1:20:53.400 --> 1:20:55.439 the embers, like how the embers all looks so perfect. 1:20:55.439 --> 1:20:58.520 That's just the quality of how the fire is being managed. 1:20:58.520 --> 1:21:00.720 And what kind of would you're burnt? Yeah, I mean 1:21:00.720 --> 1:21:02.439 you could, I mean pretty much any would you can 1:21:02.439 --> 1:21:04.639 accomplish the same thing with. But it's really the management 1:21:04.640 --> 1:21:09.280 of the pile of uh flame, flaming logs on top 1:21:09.320 --> 1:21:10.760 of the bed of the ambers to keep it hot. 1:21:12.800 --> 1:21:14.679 And I'm guessing there's also some sort of it looked 1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:17.160 like there was just like the perfect draw, like the 1:21:17.240 --> 1:21:21.559 perfect air moving across that fire, right Like it was 1:21:21.640 --> 1:21:24.400 just like it seemed like you could put your hand 1:21:24.479 --> 1:21:26.719 three ft above where that fire was and you would 1:21:26.720 --> 1:21:28.639 burn your hand just because of the way that air 1:21:28.720 --> 1:21:31.280 is moving across it providing oxygen you know too, So 1:21:31.360 --> 1:21:34.240 it's burning super hot. Yeah, this is a design of 1:21:34.280 --> 1:21:36.240 the fireplace, right, So it's got that you know, it's 1:21:36.240 --> 1:21:38.439 got that suction and basically like the way that this 1:21:38.439 --> 1:21:41.120 this has a little lip over the like the hood 1:21:41.160 --> 1:21:43.960 has a lip over the fireplace. That basically UH draws 1:21:44.000 --> 1:21:46.599 the air in the fireplace up around and then out 1:21:46.640 --> 1:21:49.639 the flu So it's just good fireplaces time. Yeah. Yeah, 1:21:49.680 --> 1:21:52.280 it's really surprising to me, like how much you guys 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:57.639 are cooking over fire everything, even dessert. Yeah it tastes better. Man. 1:21:58.160 --> 1:21:59.840 Did you have to dick around a lot to get 1:21:59.880 --> 1:22:04.600 the uh to get your hearth or fireplace right with circulation? 1:22:05.160 --> 1:22:08.240 Well no, I mean I had a really talented designer 1:22:08.240 --> 1:22:14.080 who designed the draw of the fireplace got um abaloni. 1:22:14.320 --> 1:22:19.720 So those small Because you can die for abalone in California, 1:22:19.800 --> 1:22:22.760 you can die for abaloni Alaska. There's like regulations on it. 1:22:22.960 --> 1:22:26.120 I know that, Like for instance, um at our place 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:28.720 in Alaska. Because I'm not a resident of Alaska, I'm 1:22:28.760 --> 1:22:32.280 not able to dive for abaloni. My brother is, he's 1:22:32.280 --> 1:22:34.520 a resident of Alaska. He's allowed a couple of abaloni 1:22:34.840 --> 1:22:37.160 the day. There's much smaller than down here. They got 1:22:37.200 --> 1:22:40.679 a size limit on him. So you serve some small 1:22:41.400 --> 1:22:44.200 those must be out of an aquaculture facility. Yeah, exactly 1:22:44.160 --> 1:22:47.520 what got you. And then you had some giant abaloni 1:22:47.600 --> 1:22:51.160 shells and those are probably like wild wild shells. Those 1:22:51.280 --> 1:22:53.400 those are the ones I ate. Just use it as 1:22:53.439 --> 1:22:56.400 a plate. Now do you die for him? You never 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:59.599 die for him? No, yeah, no, ever since, ever since, 1:22:59.640 --> 1:23:02.479 I alred story about my buddy, Well, this guy that 1:23:02.560 --> 1:23:04.600 I know, and I'm a buddy, but the guy that 1:23:04.680 --> 1:23:08.080 I know that dives for a blowing around here it's 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:11.800 like a sea forger. And uh. He was telling the 1:23:11.880 --> 1:23:14.000 story about how they went up I think it's around 1:23:14.040 --> 1:23:16.559 Eureka or Fort Bragg or something like that. A lot 1:23:16.600 --> 1:23:19.839 of blowing up there, and him and his friend were 1:23:19.840 --> 1:23:23.679 they got in the water and uh and uh there's 1:23:23.720 --> 1:23:26.200 there's a bunch of seals in the water, and which 1:23:26.200 --> 1:23:29.200 is a good sign there's no shark, right basically, or 1:23:29.640 --> 1:23:32.679 it's a good sign that there might be one soon. Well, so, 1:23:33.439 --> 1:23:36.080 uh so they're diving and he comes up and I 1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:38.240 guess the boat is off in the disk the hundred 1:23:38.320 --> 1:23:41.679 yards maybe, and uh then he realizes there's zero seals 1:23:41.680 --> 1:23:44.400 in the water, right, All the seals are on the rocks, 1:23:44.760 --> 1:23:46.360 and so you know, obviously he's freaking out a little 1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:49.479 bit in his head and swims to the boat. Uh, 1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:51.479 takes his gear off, takes his flippers off, throws in 1:23:51.520 --> 1:23:54.519 the boat. You know. Uh, it goes to push up 1:23:54.520 --> 1:23:57.320 into the boat, sits down, turns around, and there's a 1:23:57.320 --> 1:24:00.200 great white right below him with his mouth oak him 1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:03.680 maybe a few feet. It just takes it takes a 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:07.879 pass by. That's that's terrifying. I feel that they surfers 1:24:08.000 --> 1:24:10.559 get a lot of mileage out of their dealings with 1:24:10.760 --> 1:24:12.800 white sharks. But there's a lot more surfers in there 1:24:12.800 --> 1:24:15.519 are Abaloni divers, and I think that the Abaloni divers 1:24:15.520 --> 1:24:18.240 are more in the mix. Have you have you read 1:24:18.280 --> 1:24:22.920 Canny Roll by John Steinbeck? Um. We talked about it 1:24:22.920 --> 1:24:25.599 a couple times yesterday because it's you know, takes place 1:24:25.600 --> 1:24:28.920 in Monterey Bay, and um, they do a lot of 1:24:28.960 --> 1:24:32.559 even back then. So Steinbeck was writing, you know, in 1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:36.840 the during the Great Depression, right or writing about that era, 1:24:36.960 --> 1:24:39.600 and there in that book, those boys are always illegally 1:24:39.640 --> 1:24:44.839 harvesting avalone's back then. It's been like a tightly regulated 1:24:44.880 --> 1:24:47.880 industry for a long time. We also talked about Canny 1:24:47.920 --> 1:24:51.000 Roll because in the book, Um, one of them works 1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:53.360 at a bar and when he whenever he whenever a 1:24:53.400 --> 1:24:55.720 client leaves, he just takes whatever was left in their 1:24:55.760 --> 1:24:59.280 glass and dumps it into a bucket. And that's how 1:24:59.360 --> 1:25:01.120 him and that's what him and his friends all drink. 1:25:01.240 --> 1:25:04.720 That's their alcohol source. Wait what I missed that? What 1:25:04.760 --> 1:25:06.760 was it? What do they drink? So the guy that 1:25:06.760 --> 1:25:10.000 works in the bar, anytime a client leaves anything left 1:25:10.000 --> 1:25:13.759 in his drink in his glass, beer, wine, liquor whatever 1:25:13.760 --> 1:25:15.960 it is, it just goes into a bucket. They just 1:25:16.040 --> 1:25:18.080 dump it into a bucket and they drink that at 1:25:18.120 --> 1:25:20.280 the end of the night. And that's what That's what 1:25:20.360 --> 1:25:24.160 the crew, that's what the crew in Cannary row. That's 1:25:24.200 --> 1:25:27.559 their alcohol source is just the dregs from everyone's drinks. 1:25:27.560 --> 1:25:32.800 But they're also avid, avid abalone poachers. Uh monkey faced eel. 1:25:32.840 --> 1:25:36.559 I've fished for those before. That's not a that's not 1:25:36.640 --> 1:25:41.120 a popular commercial fish. Nope. But they just I think 1:25:41.120 --> 1:25:47.320 they just um allowed commercial fistory on it now Yeah yeah, um, well, 1:25:47.600 --> 1:25:51.200 I mean I think I don't think ellen in general 1:25:51.320 --> 1:25:53.840 is very popular, right for a lot of people, unless 1:25:53.840 --> 1:25:58.400 it's like you know, nagi, but it's delicious. It's very similar, right, 1:25:58.400 --> 1:26:00.200 if you if you were to cook it exactly same 1:26:00.200 --> 1:26:01.800 way as a nag you come out, you'd wind up 1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:04.320 with a very simular so it's less fatty, but other 1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:06.479 than that, it's very similar. Yeah, you know what, the 1:26:06.560 --> 1:26:11.720 unagi um More and more they're turning to American eels 1:26:11.760 --> 1:26:14.920 because of how depleted eels are. The eels that the 1:26:15.000 --> 1:26:17.960 that the Japanese are traditionally using are so depleted that 1:26:18.040 --> 1:26:21.960 they're turning out to American eels. And there's a lot 1:26:22.000 --> 1:26:24.639 of controversy right now because guys, what guys are doing 1:26:24.720 --> 1:26:28.840 is harvesting glass eels, which is uh a little baby 1:26:29.080 --> 1:26:32.160 a baby eel because you know, like anagramous fish, right, 1:26:32.479 --> 1:26:34.479 A nagmus fish live in the ocean and run up 1:26:34.640 --> 1:26:38.880 river to spawn. A catagronous fish lives in a river 1:26:40.000 --> 1:26:42.320 and goes out to the ocean to spawn. And eels 1:26:42.320 --> 1:26:45.960 are cattagroniusts. So they're in the in in American rivers 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:50.599 and they go out and they just keep going out 1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:52.400 in the Atlantic and they keep us going to deeper 1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:54.760 and deeper and deeper water, and that eventually leads into 1:26:54.760 --> 1:26:58.640 a place called the Sargasso Sea, and they spawn in 1:26:58.680 --> 1:27:03.080 the Sargasso Sea, and then the larva does free flow 1:27:03.200 --> 1:27:06.200 on the currents, and eventually the larva develops into what's 1:27:06.200 --> 1:27:08.519 called a glass eel, which is just a little teeny 1:27:08.560 --> 1:27:12.080 thing that looks like a looks like a translucent piece 1:27:12.120 --> 1:27:14.000 of a noodle or just like a little almost like 1:27:14.000 --> 1:27:17.400 a little piece of seaweed that you can see through. 1:27:18.240 --> 1:27:21.960 And they start migrating up rivers, and now there's a 1:27:21.960 --> 1:27:25.360 big market for guys that go out and harvest glass eels, 1:27:25.960 --> 1:27:28.200 you know, which are worth thousands and thousands and thousands 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:33.280 of dollars per pound, to sell glass eels into aquaculture 1:27:33.280 --> 1:27:36.800 facilities because you obviously can't breed them in captivity. When 1:27:36.800 --> 1:27:39.519 you you can, you can raise them in captivity, but 1:27:39.560 --> 1:27:42.479 they can't be bread and captivity. So we're in a 1:27:42.560 --> 1:27:45.200 situation now where the US Fish and Wildlife Services more 1:27:45.240 --> 1:27:48.479 aggressively trying to get a get a grip like asses. 1:27:48.560 --> 1:27:52.479 Demand for glass eels is growing, to try to get 1:27:52.479 --> 1:27:55.040 a grip on where these things are coming from, where 1:27:55.040 --> 1:27:57.040 they're going and if we're gonna wind up doing to 1:27:57.120 --> 1:28:02.160 our own eels what aided their eels and completely deplete 1:28:02.200 --> 1:28:04.880 them out. So have you had a full, full grown 1:28:04.960 --> 1:28:09.000 glass siel. Oh yeah, yeah, we smoke them. Yeah, I 1:28:09.120 --> 1:28:11.160 used to. Like I lived for a while. I had 1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:13.360 an old girlfriend that was doing a writing fellowship in 1:28:13.479 --> 1:28:17.360 Rhode Island, and we rented a house. She rented a 1:28:17.400 --> 1:28:21.600 house that sat on the tideline and Rhode Island, and 1:28:21.640 --> 1:28:24.559 I would trim deer steaks at night, whatever were and 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:26.679 I would just take like whatever I trimmed off silver 1:28:26.720 --> 1:28:28.280 skin and stuff, and I put it on a hook 1:28:29.200 --> 1:28:32.160 and I could cast it off my deck. I oughtn't 1:28:32.200 --> 1:28:36.120 do a little bay, and I would open the bail 1:28:36.200 --> 1:28:39.800 on my rod and lay it in front of the 1:28:39.800 --> 1:28:42.719 couch when we're watching movies at night, and I would 1:28:42.760 --> 1:28:44.600 take a little piece of mask and tape that was 1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:47.439 white and just pinched that mask and tape on the 1:28:47.520 --> 1:28:50.240 line at my rod tip and we'd be watching the 1:28:50.280 --> 1:28:52.360 movie and pretty soon you'd see that mask and tape 1:28:53.040 --> 1:28:57.559 moving across the living room rug. Then I could just 1:28:57.600 --> 1:28:59.680 grab my rod, open a slide door and i'd pull 1:28:59.760 --> 1:29:01.519 eel up over the deck rail. And you can get 1:29:01.560 --> 1:29:04.320 some freaking giants, man, and I would just gut them. 1:29:04.320 --> 1:29:08.880 That is a brilliant way to lazy fishing. I would 1:29:08.880 --> 1:29:12.720 just leave the head on gut them and brine them 1:29:12.760 --> 1:29:15.240 and smoke them. And what I the way I would 1:29:15.240 --> 1:29:17.960 produce him is there's a guy, Uh, there's a guy 1:29:18.040 --> 1:29:20.400 named Ray Turner on the Delaware River who runs the 1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:23.160 eel weird. And when you're doing eel weirds, they just 1:29:23.200 --> 1:29:27.680 build rock wall rock wall funnels for commercial harvest and 1:29:27.720 --> 1:29:30.599 their harvest instead of like they're harvesting the run, right, 1:29:31.000 --> 1:29:35.000 the eel run, But the eel run is going down river. 1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:38.280 Everyone thinks of like a fish run going up river, 1:29:38.360 --> 1:29:40.920 but they harvest them one the eels are migrating to 1:29:41.120 --> 1:29:44.599 spawn headed down river. And so I was writing about 1:29:44.640 --> 1:29:46.479 him in my first book, and he kind of turned 1:29:46.520 --> 1:29:48.000 me on to how he likes to cook his eels. 1:29:48.000 --> 1:29:51.439 And he runs a place called Delaware Delicacies and sells 1:29:51.560 --> 1:29:56.080 eel and sells American eels, smoke them. He runs a 1:29:56.120 --> 1:29:59.080 smoke house, so he smells a variety, he sells a 1:29:59.160 --> 1:30:02.880 variety of smoke products. But his his his like main 1:30:03.120 --> 1:30:05.559 offering that he sells in the restaurants and things, is 1:30:05.560 --> 1:30:09.320 that his main offering is a smoked deal. Well, these guys, 1:30:09.560 --> 1:30:11.439 these guys are you know what they're they're basically in 1:30:11.880 --> 1:30:15.639 rock holes right, monkey face. That's how my uncle Don 1:30:15.640 --> 1:30:18.400 taught me how to catch them, is just dipping bait 1:30:18.479 --> 1:30:20.960 down into cracks in the rocks. Yeah, yeah, they have 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:23.000 out here. They have this little like upside down poll. 1:30:23.080 --> 1:30:25.920 It's like a stick basically with a little leader on it. 1:30:26.160 --> 1:30:30.360 I guess, a little hook and bait. He just it's 1:30:30.400 --> 1:30:32.479 almost like jigging for him. Yeah, you only have you 1:30:32.520 --> 1:30:34.360 only have like six inches of wire off the end 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:37.400 of your rod because you want to be able to cram. 1:30:37.520 --> 1:30:41.080 You want to be able to cram the stick back 1:30:41.080 --> 1:30:43.439 into things. Then you're pretty you'll feel and they're big, 1:30:43.479 --> 1:30:46.280 you know, you'll feel them in. They're bucking around and 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:48.320 you drag them out. But it's like a six inch 1:30:48.439 --> 1:30:50.640 leader in de bait on the end of a you know, 1:30:51.320 --> 1:30:56.599 like a you know, eight foot long car antenna. That's 1:30:56.640 --> 1:30:59.920 an interesting way to fish. So there's no line, Well 1:31:00.000 --> 1:31:04.240 all there's a leader. Yeah, you got a poken pole. 1:31:04.880 --> 1:31:07.080 The technical the tentnacle term be a poken pole with 1:31:07.200 --> 1:31:09.599 a leader like a wire on the end with a hook, 1:31:10.479 --> 1:31:13.320 and you're just trying to deliver that bait by cramming 1:31:13.320 --> 1:31:16.639 it into cavities under rocks. Any kind of cave thing 1:31:17.840 --> 1:31:20.840 and you'll hook him. Sometimes what you gotta be careful about. 1:31:20.840 --> 1:31:22.320 You gotta think ahead, like are you gonna be able 1:31:22.360 --> 1:31:24.439 to drag a big gass deal out of there? Because 1:31:24.479 --> 1:31:27.639 he might have come in some other route, Like let's 1:31:27.680 --> 1:31:29.479 say he's got something you don't even know about where 1:31:29.520 --> 1:31:32.240 he's coming in some hole and then he winds up 1:31:32.240 --> 1:31:35.360 in the spot and you cram through some little crack 1:31:36.120 --> 1:31:38.160 to get him, and then you get him where he's on, 1:31:38.560 --> 1:31:41.000 but you can't get him out how you came in. 1:31:41.720 --> 1:31:43.519 So you gotta make sure you're aways fishing or crack. 1:31:43.640 --> 1:31:45.639 It's gonna be big enough to pull like an average 1:31:45.640 --> 1:31:49.120 monkey faced fell back out of the hole. And it's 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:51.200 a dangerous fishing because you're out and ship that's just 1:31:51.200 --> 1:31:55.439 getting battered by waves. So it's fun, man, but it's 1:31:55.479 --> 1:31:58.479 like a high it's like a high risk angling. So 1:31:58.520 --> 1:32:00.519 all right, we talked about c q can is writing, 1:32:02.080 --> 1:32:03.880 which is kind of my I'm like way into sea 1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:06.519 cucumbers right now. But we gotta touch on that again 1:32:06.600 --> 1:32:11.559 because the sea cucumbers were talking about the eel skin 1:32:11.680 --> 1:32:16.720 yet no, and that's another crazy thing. Yeah, so well 1:32:16.880 --> 1:32:18.920 so so for these eels, it's just they're basically grilled, 1:32:18.920 --> 1:32:22.799 Like the flesh is grilled, but um, there's a sauce 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:25.960 that's brust on with made with all of the like 1:32:26.000 --> 1:32:29.160 all the grilled bits that the bones, the trim, all 1:32:29.200 --> 1:32:31.599 that stuff from the eel and it's it's put into 1:32:31.600 --> 1:32:34.320 the sauce and allowed to basically create a glaze more 1:32:34.400 --> 1:32:37.040 or less, and it's brushed on the eel flesh and 1:32:37.080 --> 1:32:40.519 it's grilled. Right. But the skin, you know, like they 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:44.639 in Japan they do uh what's called uh food goo 1:32:44.960 --> 1:32:48.760 the blowfish. So they that's the one that has a 1:32:48.840 --> 1:32:50.920 toxic part. Right, Yeah, so if you don't cut it 1:32:51.200 --> 1:32:54.919 the right way, it'll kill you. Um. But but anyway, 1:32:54.800 --> 1:32:57.360 they take the skin and they make like a cold 1:32:57.479 --> 1:32:59.720 skin kind of like salad or something or you eat 1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:02.559 it with the flesh. And so it's basically boiled skin 1:33:03.040 --> 1:33:05.200 like cleaned and then boiled skin and then chilled and 1:33:05.240 --> 1:33:09.120 then it's just like uh five minutes. It just depends, 1:33:09.800 --> 1:33:12.519 uh you know in monkey face deal, it's pretty quick. 1:33:12.600 --> 1:33:16.280 So you scrape all the slime off, clean it, purge it, 1:33:16.400 --> 1:33:19.240 rubbing a little salt, rinse it in some water, uh, 1:33:19.280 --> 1:33:20.800 and get all the meat off and then you can 1:33:20.840 --> 1:33:23.200 basically just boil it on pot if you want. For us, 1:33:23.240 --> 1:33:25.200 we we put it intide inside a cry back back 1:33:25.240 --> 1:33:27.599 and it's basically you know, compressed in the cry back 1:33:27.640 --> 1:33:29.800 back so it's flat, it never curls up. And then 1:33:29.800 --> 1:33:31.320 we just steam it when it's in the cry back 1:33:31.360 --> 1:33:33.360 back until it's tender and you can just push through it. 1:33:33.439 --> 1:33:35.559 You can just put your fingers through the skin. Then 1:33:35.600 --> 1:33:37.519 once that's tender, you take it out, throw a nice 1:33:37.560 --> 1:33:39.719 path and it's it's ready, got ready. You can steam 1:33:39.720 --> 1:33:41.599 it in the cry it's not in the water. It's 1:33:41.640 --> 1:33:44.120 in the water because it's in a cry evac Well, 1:33:44.200 --> 1:33:46.560 we just place the skin directly in the bag. You 1:33:46.600 --> 1:33:48.800 don't have to and just and just seal it and 1:33:48.840 --> 1:33:50.840 compress it and steel and then put it in your 1:33:51.360 --> 1:33:53.519 your like su vie water. Yeah, you can do that, 1:33:53.680 --> 1:33:55.920 or you can just steam it just holding it over, 1:33:56.760 --> 1:34:00.320 just put it, throw it inside a steamer. Okay, yeah yeah. 1:34:00.360 --> 1:34:01.840 And then and then you either put it in the 1:34:01.920 --> 1:34:05.000 water or you can just steam it right. Um and uh, 1:34:05.000 --> 1:34:09.760 and then what's extend or just chill it? And how long? Uh? 1:34:09.840 --> 1:34:11.880 Just a couple of minutes. Every fish is different, but 1:34:11.880 --> 1:34:15.040 in this particular case, it's like three minutes and then 1:34:15.040 --> 1:34:17.479 you like slice it so it looks like Julian carrots 1:34:18.920 --> 1:34:22.360 accepted with the texture of like cold noodles, you know, 1:34:23.040 --> 1:34:24.800 and then you put a sauce on ad or toss 1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:26.800 it and something. Yeah, there's like a little vinegar made 1:34:26.800 --> 1:34:29.120 from the monkey face steal bones and some herbs, and 1:34:29.120 --> 1:34:31.680 then you start it with the flesh. Yeah, that was 1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:35.800 a very surprising dish the kid. Yeah, because that's the thing. 1:34:35.920 --> 1:34:38.400 That's kind of thing that impressed me most about what 1:34:38.479 --> 1:34:43.760 you're doing is you put more attention into the more 1:34:43.840 --> 1:34:46.120 love and care into the ship that everybody throws away. 1:34:47.760 --> 1:34:50.760 It's good stuff, man, that's the sweetmeat. That's that's the good. 1:34:50.960 --> 1:34:53.280 Like a lot of this stuff is like the you know, 1:34:53.320 --> 1:34:55.680 the chip lands or the skin or you know, and 1:34:55.720 --> 1:34:59.160 there's so many alternative textures or you know, other textures 1:34:59.200 --> 1:35:01.639 or flavors that we don't use. We, in my opinion, 1:35:01.640 --> 1:35:03.719 we have a very wasteful, you know, kind of culture 1:35:03.720 --> 1:35:05.840 in the way that we are, at least right now, 1:35:05.960 --> 1:35:08.920 because in our food practices are so like, oh, let's 1:35:08.920 --> 1:35:10.479 just take the you know, let's just take the tender 1:35:10.479 --> 1:35:12.600 loin and throw the rest away, or let's just you know, 1:35:12.640 --> 1:35:14.160 because we don't know what to do with it. So 1:35:14.360 --> 1:35:17.240 really a lot of it is just you know, you know, uh, 1:35:17.280 --> 1:35:20.200 it's gonna reassess some of these things. Yeah, that's the 1:35:20.240 --> 1:35:25.639 thing I think that needs to happen in in game 1:35:25.680 --> 1:35:31.160 management is a lot of states are aggressive about uh, 1:35:31.360 --> 1:35:38.760 salvage requirements, okay, um, about curbing want and waste. And 1:35:38.800 --> 1:35:41.160 I think that it's not even like it's not even 1:35:41.160 --> 1:35:43.800 like a lefty righty thing, right where you have like 1:35:43.880 --> 1:35:49.280 some like politically very conservative states Alaska, Montana that are 1:35:49.320 --> 1:35:52.840 really strict about salvage requirements. So if you think about that, 1:35:52.920 --> 1:35:57.160 you're like, like, the goal of you know, a goal 1:35:57.200 --> 1:36:01.920 of conservatism would be that you're alleviating people from regulation. Right, 1:36:02.120 --> 1:36:04.000 you're not telling your like the goals and not tell 1:36:04.000 --> 1:36:06.400 people what to do, not mandate to them how to 1:36:06.520 --> 1:36:09.200 behave or what to do. But here you have like 1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:14.479 really conservative states who are also saying, no, dude, you're 1:36:14.479 --> 1:36:18.920 gonna retain the usable portions of your animals, to the 1:36:18.920 --> 1:36:22.400 point where my brother hunts a moose unit in Alaska 1:36:22.840 --> 1:36:27.519 where they mandate do you retain the liver? That's the 1:36:27.560 --> 1:36:29.400 only case I can think of where a state has 1:36:29.439 --> 1:36:31.439 come out and said you're not gonna waste that moose's 1:36:31.479 --> 1:36:35.000 livery and that in that particular unit, but some states 1:36:35.000 --> 1:36:37.800 are still like really lax about it. I remember being down. 1:36:37.880 --> 1:36:40.080 I remember going down in South Carolina with a friend 1:36:40.120 --> 1:36:44.160 of mine down to his local butcher. And when they 1:36:44.320 --> 1:36:47.200 gutt a deer, part of their dear gutting process is 1:36:47.240 --> 1:36:52.240 two saws all the way the ribs, and saws all 1:36:52.280 --> 1:36:55.000 the way the shanks, and that all goes into a dumpster. 1:36:56.360 --> 1:36:59.040 Because even they're a commercial process that they have the 1:36:59.280 --> 1:37:02.559 salvage require start in place, and then the commercial process 1:37:02.560 --> 1:37:06.200 there's not even even attempting to deal with it. Ribs 1:37:06.280 --> 1:37:10.840 and shanks. My own two eyes, every shank and every 1:37:10.920 --> 1:37:14.080 rib off those deer was into a dumpster. That's crazy 1:37:14.080 --> 1:37:15.559 to me. You to think about think about it from 1:37:15.600 --> 1:37:18.439 just like a like a you know, sustainability perspective, like 1:37:18.680 --> 1:37:21.320 you got if you're if you're a hunter and you're 1:37:21.320 --> 1:37:24.880 out there and you're thrown away, half of these things 1:37:24.960 --> 1:37:27.360 it could be turned into Ian think about it. You 1:37:27.400 --> 1:37:31.240 could make soup for a week, two weeks, three weeks. 1:37:31.720 --> 1:37:35.200 You can braise the you know, shanks and make stew 1:37:35.400 --> 1:37:38.920 for your whole family for you know, another week. Uh 1:37:39.000 --> 1:37:44.280 you know you there's just there's so much that's uh um. 1:37:44.320 --> 1:37:45.920 I don't know how it got like this crazy though, 1:37:46.360 --> 1:37:50.040 So there's so much on this. We live in abundance. 1:37:50.080 --> 1:37:52.799 Many we live in abundance. Yeah, I'd say in most states, 1:37:52.880 --> 1:37:56.479 you don't have to keep the neck. No, No, I 1:37:56.520 --> 1:37:58.360 don't know about most No. I would say, yeah, probably 1:37:58.400 --> 1:38:00.200 most states you don't need to keep the neck. But 1:38:00.240 --> 1:38:03.720 it's like it's like, over the course of over the 1:38:03.720 --> 1:38:07.439 course of my hunting life, I always learned more and 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:09.880 more stuff. Like I remember we used to always bone 1:38:09.880 --> 1:38:11.720 out our shanks and just grind them for burger and 1:38:11.720 --> 1:38:13.080 I was like, oh, Ship, you can make all kinds 1:38:13.080 --> 1:38:15.519 of good stuff with shanks. And then I remember the 1:38:15.520 --> 1:38:17.680 first time I ever tried to mess It was my 1:38:18.080 --> 1:38:20.800 third year of college. We started trying to mess with 1:38:20.840 --> 1:38:23.800 cooking deer tongues and we couldn't really figure it out, 1:38:23.800 --> 1:38:25.680 but eventually got it figured out. I'm like, oh, no, Ship, 1:38:25.720 --> 1:38:28.639 you can cook tongue. And then on down the line, 1:38:28.720 --> 1:38:31.439 right and anything. You get to a point where you're like, man, 1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:33.680 I'm getting new point where I'm really utilizing a lot 1:38:33.680 --> 1:38:38.240 of stuff. But then last night I eat with you 1:38:39.120 --> 1:38:41.439 and I'm like, yeah, I haven't even scratched the surface. 1:38:42.520 --> 1:38:46.200 I'm still like, recently we discovered collars on fish. Okay, 1:38:46.240 --> 1:38:54.320 so the meat surrounding the meat surrounding the um behind 1:38:54.439 --> 1:38:57.639 the gill cover like the throat of the fish. Okay. 1:38:58.920 --> 1:39:02.439 Uh still discovered that. I was like, no, ship, I 1:39:02.479 --> 1:39:04.920 can't believe how many pounds of this stuff we have. 1:39:05.320 --> 1:39:08.120 How many pounds of this stuff we're thrown away? You know? 1:39:08.160 --> 1:39:11.400 Another thing like, uh like on the waste thing, man, 1:39:12.200 --> 1:39:17.599 is black bears? You really like you did? You really 1:39:17.640 --> 1:39:23.120 were hunting bears the spring and BC. Yeah, um, I've 1:39:23.160 --> 1:39:27.800 never like, I'm never eating organs on bears, even though 1:39:27.840 --> 1:39:29.760 obviously they'd be fine. I can't think of ever eating 1:39:29.800 --> 1:39:34.439 a bear heart because I feel like, uh, you know, man, 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:37.280 I mean, for lack of a better word, I feel 1:39:37.280 --> 1:39:40.720 like there's like a lot of weird uh almost like 1:39:40.720 --> 1:39:43.240 a spirit like for lack of a better word, like 1:39:43.280 --> 1:39:46.639 a spirituality thing, man, or like a bear heart. Like 1:39:46.760 --> 1:39:48.960 it's just like as I can't look at it as 1:39:48.960 --> 1:39:51.599 an appetizing thing for some reason. But you were saying 1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:54.800 there's a tradition in Scotland that you cut an X. Yeah, 1:39:54.840 --> 1:39:56.960 there's an all. Yeah, the tip of the heart. I 1:39:56.960 --> 1:39:59.000 feel you on that. I understand what you mean by 1:39:59.000 --> 1:40:01.439 that and obviously not the first person to think it 1:40:01.479 --> 1:40:03.439 because of what you told me that when we're talking 1:40:03.439 --> 1:40:05.479 about heart. No, I mean it took me a while 1:40:05.560 --> 1:40:07.639 to get to the point to be able to even 1:40:07.680 --> 1:40:10.040 one a hunt of bear. In fact, some of it 1:40:10.080 --> 1:40:14.080 came from just actually watching your show too. But yeah, 1:40:14.120 --> 1:40:16.400 there's an old tradition where you basically make an X 1:40:16.400 --> 1:40:18.519 in the bottom of the heart and they say it's 1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:21.599 supposed to release the soul, right, so it's basically allows 1:40:21.640 --> 1:40:25.760 you to you know, consume this thing freely. Yeah. And 1:40:25.800 --> 1:40:29.439 then so I never a bare heart. I never a 1:40:29.479 --> 1:40:33.000 bare tongue for another illogical reason because when I used 1:40:33.040 --> 1:40:36.800 to send bears and to get them tested for trickin nosis, um, 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:40.280 they want the tongue because apparently it's a great there's 1:40:40.320 --> 1:40:43.360 a lot of larva getting the tongue and that's stuck 1:40:43.360 --> 1:40:47.160 in my head. Um, you know, sorry to that just 1:40:47.200 --> 1:40:51.559 brings up a question for me. Is Steve and I 1:40:51.680 --> 1:40:57.880 both carriers of did you have a sore tongue when 1:40:57.920 --> 1:41:01.719 you had sore back muscles, eggs. My tongue never got sore. 1:41:02.360 --> 1:41:04.600 You got a sore tongue. No, So you're saying that 1:41:04.680 --> 1:41:08.599 it never goes away completely, Well, they only know from 1:41:08.640 --> 1:41:11.479 animals that they've It's hard for them to really map 1:41:12.320 --> 1:41:15.040 uh when it goes away because you have to you'd 1:41:15.080 --> 1:41:18.800 have to have an infected animal. No, I mean, I 1:41:18.800 --> 1:41:23.160 mean you're you know, as a consumer of at least yeah, 1:41:23.200 --> 1:41:26.519 you stay infected at least ten years. You can't get sick. 1:41:26.920 --> 1:41:29.400 You have to take medicine because you can't. You can't 1:41:29.520 --> 1:41:32.280 unless you ate your own arm. You can't get sick. Again, 1:41:32.640 --> 1:41:37.160 you're a carrier, and when something scavenges your carcass, they'll 1:41:37.320 --> 1:41:39.880 get sick. But you can't get sick from your own 1:41:39.880 --> 1:41:43.320 infected meat. It's out of your digestive track and the 1:41:43.560 --> 1:41:47.599 larva living calcified cysts in your muscle. So the bear 1:41:47.680 --> 1:41:49.160 that we got sick from head I think it was 1:41:49.200 --> 1:41:52.880 eight hundred and sixty eight larva per graham. So if 1:41:52.880 --> 1:41:54.720 you ate a pound of that bear, you ate a 1:41:54.760 --> 1:41:59.240 half million larva and they die at hundred sixty five degrees. 1:41:59.600 --> 1:42:01.360 So what do you what do you like? How do 1:42:01.400 --> 1:42:02.719 you get rid? Of it. What do you You gotta 1:42:02.720 --> 1:42:06.479 take pills unless you catch it right away, like if 1:42:06.479 --> 1:42:09.840 you ate I gather, if if you ate infected meat, 1:42:09.880 --> 1:42:11.840 like let's say you ate some raw meat you found 1:42:11.840 --> 1:42:15.679 in your buddy's fridge, and then your buddies like that 1:42:15.760 --> 1:42:18.040 day or the next day, your bodies like, dude, that 1:42:18.120 --> 1:42:21.840 was bear meat. You're bucked. If you tend took the 1:42:21.920 --> 1:42:25.120 d worming pills, you'll head some of it off. But 1:42:25.240 --> 1:42:28.720 once they get along in their life cycle enough and 1:42:28.760 --> 1:42:31.560 you start getting like the muscle eggs and it's just 1:42:32.600 --> 1:42:34.519 a month later. You missed your chance because you don't 1:42:34.520 --> 1:42:37.200 get sick for a for a month. In a month, 1:42:37.240 --> 1:42:39.320 you get muscle pain. And what that muscle pain is? 1:42:39.800 --> 1:42:42.360 I mean you might have some gastro intestinal upset that 1:42:42.439 --> 1:42:45.280 you would just pass off as any number of things. 1:42:45.800 --> 1:42:49.160 The muscle ache is so peculiar and intense that then 1:42:49.200 --> 1:42:52.280 you're like, something ain't right. But by then the pills 1:42:52.280 --> 1:42:54.560 like do any good. But even then, that's nine in 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:58.280 ten cases in the in our country are misdiagnosed for 1:42:58.320 --> 1:43:00.800 a fever. Yeah, be is you know when you get 1:43:00.800 --> 1:43:03.320 the flu and you get muscle ages. It took me 1:43:03.439 --> 1:43:05.320 the only reason I would have never put it together 1:43:05.439 --> 1:43:08.880 if three of the guys I worked with weren't all 1:43:08.920 --> 1:43:12.280 complaining about the same thing and we hadn't been together 1:43:12.360 --> 1:43:14.839 for a month. I wonder, if I have trickin nosis, 1:43:15.680 --> 1:43:20.919 you might you'll be all right from the past. Yeah, 1:43:20.960 --> 1:43:23.240 if you got you had a similar bounce, A lot 1:43:23.240 --> 1:43:25.679 of stuff sounds very familiar. You'd be like, dude, Yeah, 1:43:25.760 --> 1:43:28.479 you might be like dude, I just like been feeling 1:43:28.520 --> 1:43:33.000 like shit, I got wicked muscle pains, I got some 1:43:33.080 --> 1:43:35.920 kind of something. Yeah, I mean I felt like I 1:43:35.960 --> 1:43:38.760 had run a marathon ten days later. Yeah, I kept 1:43:38.760 --> 1:43:41.519 thinking I had a weightlifting injury across my entire body. 1:43:42.760 --> 1:43:48.240 So and then you'll hang out and then like ten, eleven, twelve, 1:43:48.360 --> 1:43:51.040 fourteen days later, you're just back to normal and you 1:43:51.160 --> 1:43:54.600 got through it, but you're infected. Now. To say, like 1:43:54.640 --> 1:43:56.400 how long you're infected for it, you'd have to know. 1:43:56.479 --> 1:43:59.800 This is let me give it. Let me give an 1:43:59.800 --> 1:44:02.200 ex ample. When I was at the Mountain House factory 1:44:02.200 --> 1:44:04.599 mountain House freeze dried food, I was like, Hey, what's 1:44:04.640 --> 1:44:07.439 the shelf stability of Mountain House freeze dried food? And 1:44:07.439 --> 1:44:10.600 they're like, well, we don't really know. I mean, we 1:44:10.640 --> 1:44:13.360 know what we'll say like a defendable position. But a 1:44:13.439 --> 1:44:16.479 peculiarity of it is that we have some from a 1:44:16.520 --> 1:44:19.519 long time ago that we've kept in a controlled space 1:44:20.000 --> 1:44:24.479 and it's still good. But we can only tell like that. 1:44:24.720 --> 1:44:26.960 We don't know the far end of it. We only 1:44:27.000 --> 1:44:29.080 know like what the oldest sample we have is. And 1:44:29.160 --> 1:44:31.360 to really map out like how long you stay infected, 1:44:31.479 --> 1:44:37.120 you'd have to have animal that you knew got infected 1:44:37.760 --> 1:44:40.360 and when it got infected, and then watch it for 1:44:40.400 --> 1:44:44.720 twenty years and then butcher it's meat and see if 1:44:44.720 --> 1:44:46.880 the sisters are still good. And since no one's really 1:44:46.920 --> 1:44:51.360 done that, they can't say for certain how long something 1:44:51.400 --> 1:44:55.080 can stay infected for. It would be interesting. I should donate. 1:44:55.360 --> 1:44:57.559 I might donate my body to science when I die, 1:44:58.200 --> 1:45:00.080 because I thought they could just take a chunk a 1:45:00.160 --> 1:45:01.760 flesh and do a biops. Yeah, but I don't want 1:45:01.760 --> 1:45:05.000 to go through that, so so yeah I could. I could. 1:45:05.040 --> 1:45:07.040 I should wait a decade. I should wait a decade 1:45:07.080 --> 1:45:09.559 from infection, which should be I don't know what year 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:14.920 was it. Okay, So in I'm gonna go down to 1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:17.439 the c d C and I'm going to offer a 1:45:17.479 --> 1:45:20.640 biopsy of my arm. Then they will be able to 1:45:20.640 --> 1:45:23.519 test if the cysts are still good. I'm throwing us 1:45:23.560 --> 1:45:25.479 out there right now to the CDC. They'll be able 1:45:25.479 --> 1:45:28.880 to test if those cysts are still alive. They'll know 1:45:28.960 --> 1:45:31.559 that you stay infected for ten years, and I will 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:36.519 every ten years commit two testing to find out how 1:45:36.560 --> 1:45:38.760 long you stay, how long the cists are good for. 1:45:38.880 --> 1:45:41.960 But they're good. I know, it's like at least ten years. 1:45:42.000 --> 1:45:45.680 But the only thing that can liberate that, The only 1:45:45.680 --> 1:45:49.639 thing that can liberate the larva from its calcified cyst 1:45:50.040 --> 1:45:56.559 is stomach acid. So you're making notes, can you can you? 1:45:56.760 --> 1:46:00.400 Can you eat bear freely? Now? Can you eat infect 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.160 an animal and not be sick? You bring that up. 1:46:03.320 --> 1:46:06.639 I'll let the honest feel that one. Yeah. I don't 1:46:06.680 --> 1:46:08.680 know what got me back onto the U. S d 1:46:08.840 --> 1:46:12.200 A website. I think I was researching something else, but 1:46:14.960 --> 1:46:19.640 I saw a something about tricken elysis and I was like, 1:46:20.040 --> 1:46:22.880 I'll read up a little bit, and uh, it's said 1:46:22.920 --> 1:46:25.719 that they that they think they believe, through some research 1:46:25.760 --> 1:46:28.800 that have been done, that that animals do develop an 1:46:28.800 --> 1:46:34.880 immunity um after they've been infected. Yeah, but it's not not. 1:46:35.840 --> 1:46:38.719 And also not all bears have trick an elysis. You don't. 1:46:39.600 --> 1:46:42.720 It's something that each individual needs to acquire through the 1:46:42.800 --> 1:46:50.639 consumption of infected meat. So uh, yeah, you could kill 1:46:50.680 --> 1:46:53.559 a young bear and depending on what he's been up to, 1:46:53.760 --> 1:46:57.280 he might not have ever encountered infected meat. But there 1:46:57.400 --> 1:47:00.840 is some evidence that over time, as a bear gets 1:47:00.840 --> 1:47:03.479 older and older and older, it's the likelihood of it 1:47:03.640 --> 1:47:07.720 having encountered infected me and probably particularly when they get 1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:11.280 big enough that they're regularly eating other bears, right, the 1:47:11.360 --> 1:47:13.960 chances of that bear becoming infected go up. But yeah, 1:47:14.040 --> 1:47:16.519 not all like, by no means are all bears in 1:47:16.520 --> 1:47:19.360 fact of the trick an olsis. I've I've had them 1:47:19.400 --> 1:47:21.360 tested and had them test negative, and I had them 1:47:21.360 --> 1:47:25.400 tested and had them test positive. You know, in Japan 1:47:25.479 --> 1:47:29.120 they eat a lot of bear that is undercooked or 1:47:29.240 --> 1:47:31.479 raw or made out raw but undercooked. They might have 1:47:31.520 --> 1:47:33.400 a lot of tricking nosis. I was starting to someone 1:47:33.439 --> 1:47:35.559 from the someone from I can't. I think they were 1:47:35.600 --> 1:47:38.880 from doctors without Borders, and they were saying, when they're 1:47:39.560 --> 1:47:43.720 working in areas of like Equatorial Africa where there's a 1:47:43.800 --> 1:47:49.040 lot of bush meat consumption, Um, they roll in and 1:47:49.200 --> 1:47:51.000 just as a gent, like when they come in and 1:47:51.040 --> 1:47:54.120 do vaccinations and stuff in villages, they roll in and 1:47:54.240 --> 1:47:56.800 just do de worming under the assumption they're saying that 1:47:57.080 --> 1:48:00.879 are our operating assumption is that everyone's a trickolsis everyone's 1:48:00.880 --> 1:48:04.560 suffering trick noosis. So bush meat you know, like not 1:48:04.800 --> 1:48:07.679 not already dead, but but hunted bush animals, right yeah, 1:48:07.720 --> 1:48:09.920 so yeah yeah. And Africa, it's just like they like 1:48:10.040 --> 1:48:12.760 what we call wild we call wild game, but you're 1:48:12.840 --> 1:48:16.920 like like bush meat would be that um people hunting 1:48:17.000 --> 1:48:19.320 wild game and selling wild game. They just say the 1:48:19.360 --> 1:48:22.519 bush meat trade, you know where where people are actively 1:48:22.560 --> 1:48:26.000 out hunting in the jungle, um for sale, it's just 1:48:26.120 --> 1:48:28.640 turn bush meat. It's like yeah, they're they're version of 1:48:28.680 --> 1:48:31.679 wild game. Um, so yeah, they're operating under the they 1:48:31.760 --> 1:48:34.919 operated on the assumption that people are eating carnivorous animals 1:48:35.040 --> 1:48:38.640 or omnivorous animals and just getting infected and getting reinfected 1:48:38.680 --> 1:48:40.800 and infected and reinfected. They're going to treat people with 1:48:40.880 --> 1:48:43.760 d worming pills. When I bought a de worming pill 1:48:43.840 --> 1:48:47.200 for trick and L since it was my insurance paid 1:48:47.280 --> 1:48:53.840 half of it, uh, I bought it in. The pharmacist said, 1:48:53.840 --> 1:48:55.760 I'm not gonna tell you what to do with this information, 1:48:56.479 --> 1:48:59.880 but I can tell you that that pill is seven 1:49:00.040 --> 1:49:03.400 bucks when you give it to a dog. But she said, 1:49:03.439 --> 1:49:05.400 I don't know about the doulstages. I'm just like throwing 1:49:05.439 --> 1:49:08.240 it out there. And I took it. I didn't get 1:49:08.280 --> 1:49:10.519 better any quicker than anybody else. Ye didn't took it. 1:49:10.800 --> 1:49:12.400 He wasn't gonna spend his money on something. So you 1:49:12.439 --> 1:49:14.320 guys got better at the same time, and you didn't 1:49:15.000 --> 1:49:16.559 too late, but we were we had already been sick 1:49:16.640 --> 1:49:19.600 for five weeks. Yeah. One of the biggest reason I 1:49:19.640 --> 1:49:22.400 didn't take it because when I spoke, we were interviewed. Um, 1:49:22.600 --> 1:49:25.280 everybody was just about interviewed by like their local UH, 1:49:25.880 --> 1:49:28.800 state and county health department. We all got calls from 1:49:28.840 --> 1:49:31.800 the Alaska State epidemiologists because it doesn't happen a lot, 1:49:32.040 --> 1:49:36.160 and the CDC because it's like mandatory reportable disease they 1:49:36.240 --> 1:49:38.200 have to do they have to do a case on it. 1:49:38.439 --> 1:49:40.439 And the Atlastic guy, I was like, look, man, that 1:49:40.680 --> 1:49:43.479 steroid that you'll take to you know, that that you 1:49:43.560 --> 1:49:47.000 take as a pill is so strong and severe that 1:49:47.240 --> 1:49:50.799 in my opinion, you might be doing more uh damage 1:49:50.880 --> 1:49:54.360 to your body by taking that pill than what is 1:49:54.400 --> 1:49:56.360 going on. Can't you just like chug a bottle of 1:49:56.360 --> 1:49:59.760 whiskey purge that out? And and this comes up a 1:49:59.800 --> 1:50:02.200 lot because it's just fun to talk about, right, And like, 1:50:02.320 --> 1:50:04.920 no one got hurt in any kind of long term way, 1:50:04.960 --> 1:50:06.519 So it's just fun and funny to talk about. And 1:50:06.560 --> 1:50:10.400 I talked about it often and with great relish. But um, 1:50:12.600 --> 1:50:14.960 the point was I gonna make about it. Well we 1:50:15.080 --> 1:50:17.160 got we got here by talking. We're talking about tongues 1:50:17.320 --> 1:50:21.679 because we ate tongues. Oh yeah, So that's always like stuck, 1:50:21.760 --> 1:50:23.320 you know, when you get like little things stuck in 1:50:23.400 --> 1:50:26.400 your head. Right, I remember getting real sick off Canadian 1:50:26.439 --> 1:50:29.559 Hunter whiskey and then not being able to drink uh 1:50:30.120 --> 1:50:33.599 Canadian Hunter because just like the association. So I got 1:50:33.680 --> 1:50:35.840 stuck in my head about bear tongue. You got the 1:50:35.880 --> 1:50:39.559 image of like little maggots. Yeah, and so it turned 1:50:39.600 --> 1:50:42.720 me off. But you uh, from your bear, you got 1:50:42.800 --> 1:50:45.880 the spring. You know, you're very generous. You only get 1:50:45.920 --> 1:50:47.840 one tongue out of a bear, and you shared with 1:50:47.960 --> 1:50:50.160 me some bare tongue. The base of the tongue. You 1:50:50.200 --> 1:50:53.400 pointed out what you like the fatty party, and that's 1:50:53.439 --> 1:50:56.599 like cooking tongue. But you also did something that I've 1:50:56.640 --> 1:51:00.799 always heard about with um illegal wildlife trafficking in Asia, 1:51:00.840 --> 1:51:07.280 which is bare paw. Talk about how you handled bear paw, 1:51:07.479 --> 1:51:11.880 which I am guilty of having never that was in 1:51:11.960 --> 1:51:15.800 my discard pile skin the pause to save the hide, 1:51:16.280 --> 1:51:19.600 but never using my paws because they were like, I 1:51:19.720 --> 1:51:21.920 just didn't think about it. I had no idea. Well, 1:51:22.000 --> 1:51:24.680 if you really think through like the ananoity of a paul, right, 1:51:24.760 --> 1:51:26.599 if you got you start at the top, You've got 1:51:26.760 --> 1:51:29.400 you know, the skin, and then the pad, and then 1:51:29.439 --> 1:51:33.840 all of that connective tissue and tendons and deliciousness underneath that. 1:51:34.360 --> 1:51:37.439 Then the meat around the knuckles, the cartilage and all 1:51:37.439 --> 1:51:39.679 that stuff. So there's a lot of layers of flavor 1:51:39.760 --> 1:51:44.040 in there, right, and uh for those who like maybe 1:51:44.200 --> 1:51:49.439 chicken feet or you know, something along those lines. But 1:51:49.960 --> 1:51:53.040 but basically we we just uh we just blanch off 1:51:53.160 --> 1:51:56.519 the that outer skin and the hair and then you 1:51:56.560 --> 1:51:59.040 can raise it just like you would anybraise, like a shank. Right, 1:51:59.320 --> 1:52:01.240 you can throw it in some fats meromatics. You're just 1:52:01.240 --> 1:52:03.479 throwing a little broth that does raise it and then 1:52:03.520 --> 1:52:07.000 we grill it afterwards. So but it's got all those layers, 1:52:07.040 --> 1:52:09.040 got all those layers of flavor. It's used so much 1:52:09.120 --> 1:52:11.960 that has you know, a ton of flavor already. It's 1:52:12.160 --> 1:52:13.920 one of my favorite things. I'm just trying to think 1:52:13.920 --> 1:52:15.640 of something to equate it too, but I can't think 1:52:15.680 --> 1:52:22.120 of something to equate it too, because it was Yeah, 1:52:23.360 --> 1:52:26.080 what's the parallel I mean on the I mean you've 1:52:26.080 --> 1:52:28.240 got that You've got that collagen on the outside. Right, 1:52:28.280 --> 1:52:31.000 it's like a like chicken feet almost right. That's what 1:52:31.080 --> 1:52:35.040 I'm trying to describe, is that collagen that you could, um, 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:37.120 it would be hard to cut it with a fork, 1:52:38.920 --> 1:52:42.439 choose up nice, and it's like the it's like the 1:52:42.920 --> 1:52:46.840 texture and consistency of raw abalone. I don't know, man, 1:52:46.960 --> 1:52:49.120 like a little crunch to it. Yeah, it's got a 1:52:49.160 --> 1:52:51.400 little crunch to it, and you can keep cooking and 1:52:51.400 --> 1:52:53.360 it'll get really soft like if you wanted to. But 1:52:53.479 --> 1:52:55.599 we've decided to leave a little twosome ryan to get 1:52:55.600 --> 1:52:57.519 a little texture in there. I'm telling you what, man, 1:52:57.560 --> 1:52:59.280 if you took a bear paw like that and laid 1:52:59.320 --> 1:53:00.800 it out in front of those people, and so I'll 1:53:00.800 --> 1:53:02.560 give you ten guesses what the hell that is? No 1:53:02.680 --> 1:53:05.880 one is gonna guess. You know, Actually it's not like 1:53:05.960 --> 1:53:08.800 the freaking claw on there. Yeah. Yeah. The writer Jim 1:53:08.880 --> 1:53:13.760 Harrison Um, who was an avid hunter and fisherman, he 1:53:14.080 --> 1:53:17.320 always said that he can't he saw a skinned out 1:53:17.360 --> 1:53:22.600 bear and could never eat bear because it was like 1:53:22.720 --> 1:53:24.320 he was looking at a skinned out human. I mean, 1:53:24.400 --> 1:53:28.479 it's shockingly similar, right, like it's it's definitely I knew 1:53:28.520 --> 1:53:31.160 that going into it. This is the first bear I 1:53:31.200 --> 1:53:33.320 ever got. Yeah, it's better not to have if you 1:53:33.400 --> 1:53:35.640 have that problem, if that problem would trip you up, 1:53:36.080 --> 1:53:38.720 don't hang it, skin it up. I've never met a 1:53:38.880 --> 1:53:41.320 person that's been involved with a bear that didn't say 1:53:41.360 --> 1:53:43.439 that about it. I don't get it like I thought. 1:53:43.479 --> 1:53:45.040 I don't get it. It just I don't look at 1:53:45.080 --> 1:53:46.479 and be like, oh my god, it's a dude. Oh no, 1:53:46.560 --> 1:53:48.280 it's just a bear like I've never had. I don't 1:53:48.320 --> 1:53:51.080 like yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. Because the back legs, 1:53:51.920 --> 1:53:53.360 we just don't. Don't hang it by the neck and 1:53:53.479 --> 1:53:55.639 leave the fingers on. That's what he that's what he saw. 1:53:56.000 --> 1:53:57.960 I gathered he saw one hanging. It was like not 1:53:58.080 --> 1:54:03.080 going near that. Um, all right, the last thing I 1:54:03.120 --> 1:54:08.040 want to talk about, uh, last question. You you have 1:54:09.240 --> 1:54:16.200 hung in your life. You have hung game meat for 1:54:16.680 --> 1:54:22.400 a year, right over a year? Talk about that ship. 1:54:23.080 --> 1:54:25.559 We get a million questions about We get a million 1:54:25.680 --> 1:54:28.240 questions about what's up with the age and dear me, 1:54:28.800 --> 1:54:30.240 and let me let me tea this off a little 1:54:30.240 --> 1:54:32.160 bit but kind of like what the questions come, what 1:54:32.320 --> 1:54:35.320 my personal experiences with it, and kind of just generly 1:54:35.360 --> 1:54:36.760 how I feel about it, and then I want you 1:54:36.840 --> 1:54:39.000 to go. But we get a lot of questions like 1:54:39.160 --> 1:54:41.440 can you age, dear me? And I'm always like, yeah, man, 1:54:41.920 --> 1:54:46.400 if you have the proper facility, right, the proper kind 1:54:46.440 --> 1:54:49.080 of space, you can age, dear me. I found it's 1:54:49.120 --> 1:54:52.120 just like a dude with a house and a kitchen 1:54:52.160 --> 1:54:54.480 in it, and that I hunt a lot of like 1:54:54.560 --> 1:54:58.600 pretty remote areas. It often just doesn't come up for me, right, Like, Um, 1:54:59.120 --> 1:55:06.080 you're dealing in imperfect situations where the way to ensure 1:55:06.200 --> 1:55:09.520 that animal is gonna be like ready for many future 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:11.480 meals is to get the thing caught up and putting 1:55:11.480 --> 1:55:15.160 your freezer where it's stable because you gotta have climate control. Environment. 1:55:15.960 --> 1:55:18.000 Another thing I'll say to people, is what I often 1:55:18.080 --> 1:55:20.920 do for aging on on like a daily basis, is 1:55:20.960 --> 1:55:25.360 I'll thaw blocks the meat out a thaw roast out, 1:55:26.240 --> 1:55:30.120 and before cooking them, I'll let them be on a 1:55:30.280 --> 1:55:35.720 rack in my fridge for a week, ten days, two 1:55:35.800 --> 1:55:39.320 weeks sometimes and it dries a little bit on the outside, 1:55:39.760 --> 1:55:41.440 but I'll clean it up and cook that and I 1:55:41.560 --> 1:55:45.320 feel that that meat is different than what I thought out, 1:55:45.480 --> 1:55:49.160 like there's some transformation going on there. It's tender izing. Um. 1:55:49.280 --> 1:55:51.720 I used to take ducks and just gut them and 1:55:51.800 --> 1:55:54.960 put them in paper grocery bags and put them in 1:55:55.040 --> 1:55:57.720 my fridge for ten days, and they were better than 1:55:57.840 --> 1:56:00.720 ducks that you didn't do that with. But my general 1:56:00.840 --> 1:56:02.560 feeling about it is it's like you gotta have the 1:56:02.680 --> 1:56:05.920 right space. I've never had the right space. Now you 1:56:06.120 --> 1:56:10.600 run with it because you've rigged up spaces to do this, Like, 1:56:11.000 --> 1:56:12.400 how in the world are you able to do that? 1:56:12.680 --> 1:56:14.760 And I also like we like to hear um, like 1:56:15.400 --> 1:56:17.920 if you think there is something that they got home 1:56:18.000 --> 1:56:23.640 without the special space rigged up, you know, well, I 1:56:23.720 --> 1:56:29.160 mean just to I think about Priscuto, right, okay, all right, 1:56:29.520 --> 1:56:32.280 it's you know those old methods of proscuto or you know, 1:56:32.360 --> 1:56:37.280 you rub the socket um and then you rubbed the 1:56:37.320 --> 1:56:40.160 ball joined the ball yeah yeah, sorry, the ball joined 1:56:40.160 --> 1:56:42.400 around the you know, like the femur. I guess it 1:56:42.520 --> 1:56:45.920 is um. And then you throw it on the counter 1:56:46.400 --> 1:56:48.440 by your fireplace and you just let us sit there 1:56:48.440 --> 1:56:50.240 for a couple of days and you massage it every day, 1:56:50.600 --> 1:56:52.440 right if you're not like you're bearing the thing in 1:56:52.520 --> 1:56:55.320 salt at all. Right, and these things get left out 1:56:55.320 --> 1:56:58.560 at room temperature. So so it's not really that, it's 1:56:58.560 --> 1:57:01.120 just it's just a different view point for us, especially 1:57:01.120 --> 1:57:05.040 in America. Right, But you've got to have I guess 1:57:05.960 --> 1:57:07.360 you know, at home, you've got to have just the 1:57:07.760 --> 1:57:11.920 right air circulation. You gotta have the right humidity level, 1:57:12.040 --> 1:57:14.920 but more importantly just air circulation. So all you're doing 1:57:15.040 --> 1:57:18.720 is kind of mitigating the um, you know, service moisture 1:57:19.040 --> 1:57:21.760 and and the air circulation. So if you dry it 1:57:21.840 --> 1:57:24.360 off and you you put it near a fan, like 1:57:24.480 --> 1:57:27.000 physically dry it off with towels, yes, so before it 1:57:27.080 --> 1:57:28.560 goes in there, you know, it's got to be in 1:57:28.600 --> 1:57:30.240 a good state. Like if you dropped your leg in 1:57:30.280 --> 1:57:32.360 the dirt or something like that and you know you 1:57:33.200 --> 1:57:36.280 you had to rinse it off a lot, and and um, 1:57:36.600 --> 1:57:41.480 you know it's contaminated. I wouldn't recommend it right so, um, 1:57:41.600 --> 1:57:43.000 but you know, if you have a good you have 1:57:43.080 --> 1:57:47.680 a good simple you know, dear leg thrown fridge, fridge, 1:57:47.720 --> 1:57:50.240 skin it out, dry it off, hanging in the fridge. 1:57:50.280 --> 1:57:53.040 You gotta have circulation all the way around. Um And 1:57:53.200 --> 1:57:56.040 and the reality is is that the microbes in the 1:57:56.160 --> 1:57:59.360 air do the rest of the work. For as long 1:57:59.440 --> 1:58:03.560 as you manage the process from the original surface moisture 1:58:04.040 --> 1:58:06.160 and continue to dry it off every day and have 1:58:06.240 --> 1:58:09.520 a lot of air circulation around, it's really super easy 1:58:09.560 --> 1:58:12.600 to do. There's zero things wrong with with a deer 1:58:12.680 --> 1:58:15.600 that's been in the fridge for two weeks. Um, you 1:58:15.760 --> 1:58:18.720 need it, you know, rare, and it's perfectly fine as 1:58:18.760 --> 1:58:20.200 long as you don't mess it up in between, right, 1:58:20.320 --> 1:58:23.280 And you don't like is it for for safety's sake? 1:58:23.320 --> 1:58:25.080 If you're going to try age in something your fridge, 1:58:25.080 --> 1:58:27.760 you're saying you don't necessarily like not necessarily you don't 1:58:27.880 --> 1:58:31.040 need to rub that thing down with salt or you 1:58:31.080 --> 1:58:34.080 hear people about rubbing it down with black pepper, which 1:58:34.160 --> 1:58:37.120 has some anti microbial quality. You don't have to know, 1:58:37.440 --> 1:58:39.280 you don't have to, but but you know there's a 1:58:39.320 --> 1:58:42.200 lot of like ifs, right, like like if if inside 1:58:42.400 --> 1:58:44.320 you know there's some sort of bullet damage or shrapping 1:58:44.480 --> 1:58:47.000 or something from that bullet spread apart and maybe hit 1:58:47.160 --> 1:58:50.120 like a little membrane and then you know how and 1:58:50.240 --> 1:58:53.400 some animals you'll have like um, all that moisture in 1:58:53.440 --> 1:58:57.000 the fascia in between like muscle layers. So that's also 1:58:57.040 --> 1:58:58.960 an issue because that stuff starts to seep out as 1:58:59.000 --> 1:59:01.440 you age. Got you so as longways just a good condition, 1:59:01.520 --> 1:59:05.280 then you're you're good. So talk about what it looks 1:59:05.360 --> 1:59:07.320 like after you've had it. If you've pun something for 1:59:07.360 --> 1:59:08.720 a year, it has a lot of mold on it, 1:59:09.000 --> 1:59:13.480 that's like salami. It's got that white pisia on the outside. Um, 1:59:13.520 --> 1:59:15.200 So that how do you know a safe mold from 1:59:15.240 --> 1:59:18.680 a shitty mold? Usually shitty mold is that safe mold 1:59:18.800 --> 1:59:22.320 is that really fine textured, smooth, salami looking mold that's white, 1:59:22.720 --> 1:59:27.240 uh and and kind of silky. A bad mold is green, black, 1:59:27.680 --> 1:59:30.200 big hairs, big spores of hair that are growing off 1:59:30.240 --> 1:59:33.240 the moisture of the wet areas. I definitely don't want 1:59:33.240 --> 1:59:34.400 to eat that. I don't I don't know what it is, 1:59:34.480 --> 1:59:35.760 but you definitely don't want to eat that. And what 1:59:35.840 --> 1:59:38.720 do you when you age? Let's just let's just focus 1:59:38.800 --> 1:59:42.120 on venison for a minute, or antler, antler and horned game? 1:59:42.680 --> 1:59:44.520 What are you after by a like? What is what 1:59:44.560 --> 1:59:47.000 are you trying to achieve by aging it? Well, the 1:59:47.040 --> 1:59:49.320 whole the whole point of it is that you basically 1:59:49.600 --> 1:59:51.480 you know, everything has a sweet spot, like we're talking 1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:54.880 about earlier, you know, and so like the fish being 1:59:55.080 --> 1:59:58.160 dead for two minutes or two minutes or being dead 1:59:58.240 --> 2:00:01.600 for one year exactly, it's and so there's there's Lego 2:00:01.640 --> 2:00:04.160 was saying, there's there's typically two sweet spots. There's right 2:00:04.240 --> 2:00:06.640 when you get it, and there's further on down the road. 2:00:06.680 --> 2:00:09.280 So you got to decide for every product which you 2:00:09.320 --> 2:00:12.000 know further down the road, which which point is best 2:00:12.040 --> 2:00:15.760 for each product? So, um, you know, as the animal 2:00:15.840 --> 2:00:18.600 sits in ages, basically the enzymes start to break down 2:00:18.680 --> 2:00:22.560 this animal, right, um, and they you know, the flavor 2:00:22.720 --> 2:00:27.640 becomes deeper, right, not game either or what we typically 2:00:27.720 --> 2:00:30.800 think of as as you know, kind of a nasty flavor, 2:00:30.920 --> 2:00:33.840 but it just deepens, it also becomes more tender, and 2:00:33.960 --> 2:00:35.520 so you know, at that point you can you can 2:00:35.600 --> 2:00:37.240 cut off you know, if you let something age for 2:00:37.320 --> 2:00:41.480 really like that olt dad leg right, I can cut 2:00:41.520 --> 2:00:43.480 off a stake of that out dead leg grill it 2:00:43.720 --> 2:00:45.520 serve it rare and you can bite right through it. 2:00:46.880 --> 2:00:49.600 We had one time, just perfect conditions where we had 2:00:49.680 --> 2:00:55.240 a calf elk. The the was hanging in a garage 2:00:55.560 --> 2:00:58.720 and at night to be down in the upper twenties, 2:00:59.240 --> 2:01:00.800 you know, in the day time and be up into 2:01:00.800 --> 2:01:04.880 the forties. But we ate the whole thing without ever 2:01:04.960 --> 2:01:07.080 freezing any of it. And I remember towards the end 2:01:07.920 --> 2:01:10.280 you could put you could put a finger into it. 2:01:10.920 --> 2:01:13.760 You could jab your finger into it. Once you're really delicious, 2:01:13.840 --> 2:01:15.880 once you cut the rihind away. And my old man 2:01:16.000 --> 2:01:18.480 used to tell stories of hanging deer until they had 2:01:18.480 --> 2:01:21.920 an inch of mold on them and cutting the mold 2:01:21.920 --> 2:01:24.920 away and then cutting that rind away and having just 2:01:25.040 --> 2:01:27.960 like perfect dear meat under there. But if a dude's 2:01:28.000 --> 2:01:30.920 doing it, okay, explain this, then what are you not 2:01:31.080 --> 2:01:33.480 wanting to not happen? Like? What are the things when 2:01:33.520 --> 2:01:36.440 you look and be like, oh, I need to figure 2:01:36.480 --> 2:01:40.040 something out because this is going south. It's it's all 2:01:40.120 --> 2:01:44.640 about moisture control. Moisture control, air circulation is long. It 2:01:44.760 --> 2:01:47.040 just look if you look at it and it's a 2:01:47.200 --> 2:01:51.040 it's like a soppy mess. I wouldn't need it. I 2:01:51.080 --> 2:01:53.600 wouldn't recommend it. What about what about older There should 2:01:53.600 --> 2:01:56.400 never be a foul order. No, there's never a foul order, right, 2:01:56.440 --> 2:01:58.520 so you should you should never have any kind of 2:01:58.720 --> 2:02:01.640 like nothing. You should be uh, you know, after the 2:02:01.680 --> 2:02:03.600 first few days, it's gonna dry and it's gonna drip 2:02:03.640 --> 2:02:06.120 Any blood will drain off, any moisture will basically drip off, 2:02:06.320 --> 2:02:08.720 and you're in you're diligent about and you just wipe 2:02:08.760 --> 2:02:11.320 it down every day. You keep a fan on it. 2:02:11.400 --> 2:02:12.800 Basically the easiest way to do it is just to 2:02:12.880 --> 2:02:14.880 keep a fan directly on the meat or you know, 2:02:14.920 --> 2:02:16.280 if you have a fridge, just put a little fan 2:02:16.360 --> 2:02:18.240 inside there, which isn't always the easiest thing to do, 2:02:18.320 --> 2:02:20.720 but you just cut a little hole and sticking aside um. 2:02:21.240 --> 2:02:24.280 But uh, that's it. That's really it. As as long 2:02:24.360 --> 2:02:26.240 as it doesn't smell bad and it doesn't look like 2:02:26.320 --> 2:02:29.520 it's completely coated and moisture, there's no like excess moisture 2:02:29.560 --> 2:02:33.160 inside the joints around the bones. You're fine. And another 2:02:33.240 --> 2:02:38.120 thing you talked about was you were dealing with lamb 2:02:39.760 --> 2:02:46.040 for your restaurant and you add taking kidney fat and 2:02:46.240 --> 2:02:49.680 kind of covered the that that ball joint area and 2:02:50.680 --> 2:02:53.120 with kidney fat so that it dried on there and 2:02:53.240 --> 2:02:55.760 form like a barrier. What are you doing when you 2:02:55.840 --> 2:02:59.000 do that? Well, So in that instance, we're basically preventing 2:02:59.080 --> 2:03:01.720 too much dry rying out too much meat loss. Right, 2:03:02.760 --> 2:03:05.840 So you know, the the the the outside of the 2:03:05.960 --> 2:03:10.760 meat ages really well, but where the meats cut ages 2:03:11.040 --> 2:03:14.720 not as well. So because you've introduced because in the 2:03:14.800 --> 2:03:18.360 butchering process, you've probably introduced some bacteria onto that. You 2:03:18.480 --> 2:03:21.480 probably introduced some bacteria onto that cut. Mostly I don't, 2:03:21.480 --> 2:03:24.160 I have no idea, but most of I mean, like 2:03:24.240 --> 2:03:26.520 definitely feels different. Like when you skin an animal, it's 2:03:26.560 --> 2:03:30.000 got that the fell or the fascion on the outside, 2:03:30.160 --> 2:03:33.360 and where you've cut, it's just different. Yeah, yeah, and 2:03:33.440 --> 2:03:36.760 I'm not sure of of why, but but um at 2:03:36.840 --> 2:03:40.040 least scientifically, but but you know, it just doesn't age 2:03:40.080 --> 2:03:42.000 the same, right, So you gotta you gotta protect it 2:03:42.040 --> 2:03:43.640 in some way or the other. And easiest thing to 2:03:43.640 --> 2:03:45.000 do is just to rub a little salt, you know, 2:03:45.040 --> 2:03:46.960 on there. You rub a little bit of salt and 2:03:47.000 --> 2:03:49.440 then let it hang. Then you're you're almost guaranteed that 2:03:49.440 --> 2:03:51.000 you're gonna be good as long as you drive down. 2:03:51.480 --> 2:03:53.760 So if a guy was gonna rig up let's say, 2:03:53.800 --> 2:03:55.640 let's say you were like, you're like the fridgerator. I 2:03:55.680 --> 2:04:00.440 don't have room in my fridge, um whatever, right, you know, 2:04:00.600 --> 2:04:01.920 you know you don't have room to hang up a 2:04:01.920 --> 2:04:04.280 whole damn deer's leg in your fridge. If you're going 2:04:04.320 --> 2:04:08.320 to rig up a space or a room to to 2:04:08.440 --> 2:04:12.080 do some long term aging, lay out kind of the 2:04:12.120 --> 2:04:15.560 parameters of what you're after. Well, I would get a 2:04:15.640 --> 2:04:17.560 fridge and throw it in, or you can you know 2:04:17.640 --> 2:04:19.200 you can do you can go to I mean let's 2:04:19.240 --> 2:04:23.520 just say that, um, you know, resources aren't an issue. 2:04:23.600 --> 2:04:27.000 Then you know you go get a commercial uh like 2:04:27.120 --> 2:04:28.840 a like like one of these things he's reach in. 2:04:28.920 --> 2:04:31.200 It's like a like a Stanley steel reach in refrigerator's 2:04:31.200 --> 2:04:33.680 got a lot of room around or just like I 2:04:33.720 --> 2:04:35.240 got a little room in the inside so you can 2:04:35.320 --> 2:04:40.200 get good air circulation around that meat. Then um, you 2:04:40.280 --> 2:04:42.440 know I would put a fan in there. Those typically 2:04:42.480 --> 2:04:45.520 already have a fan, you know, but I'm fine doing that. Yeah, 2:04:45.520 --> 2:04:46.600 you don't need to get it. You don't need to 2:04:46.600 --> 2:04:49.000 get into like d I Y, like crazy ship that's 2:04:49.000 --> 2:04:51.920 gonna cost five bucks, like perfect World. Yeah, so yeah, 2:04:51.960 --> 2:04:54.080 you get you got a refrigerator box with a really 2:04:54.160 --> 2:04:57.040 high air circulation, and you throw a hook in there, 2:04:57.040 --> 2:05:01.200 and you put your meat inside and just and at 2:05:01.240 --> 2:05:03.200 a point you get to where you're not doing any 2:05:03.240 --> 2:05:06.600 maintenance on it. Right, so after you know that typically 2:05:06.720 --> 2:05:10.600 like after the first week or so, depending on the size, 2:05:10.640 --> 2:05:12.120 Like if you've got a whole elk leg in their 2:05:12.200 --> 2:05:14.960 real elk lay um, then that's gonna take a little 2:05:14.960 --> 2:05:17.440 longer to try out. Right, you gotta watch it carefully 2:05:17.520 --> 2:05:19.200 from long. You gotta tend to it. You gotta make 2:05:19.200 --> 2:05:20.920 sure nothing you know, it's not touching the side of 2:05:20.920 --> 2:05:24.280 the refrigerator so the moisture doesn't accumulate, or not touching 2:05:24.320 --> 2:05:27.120 other meat or or uh you know, it's got free 2:05:27.160 --> 2:05:29.000 air circulation all the way around. But that's really the 2:05:29.040 --> 2:05:30.520 only thing you need to worry about. And then the 2:05:30.600 --> 2:05:32.760 temperature you don't want to get you want to keep 2:05:32.800 --> 2:05:36.400 around probably perfect not much warmer than forty five degrees 2:05:36.480 --> 2:05:38.120 or so or yeah, I mean I would keep it 2:05:38.160 --> 2:05:41.000 at thirty six, keep it at thirty six, and then 2:05:41.000 --> 2:05:43.280 you're you're, you're, you know, all those things just helped 2:05:43.320 --> 2:05:45.600 to kind of mitigate any issues that you'll have and 2:05:46.080 --> 2:05:48.240 you wind up with a delicious, you know, age piece 2:05:48.280 --> 2:05:49.920 of meat. You know. The other thing that it does too, 2:05:50.040 --> 2:05:53.360 is it also it also uh you know, like I 2:05:53.480 --> 2:05:57.120 think a lot of people talk about gaminess, but really 2:05:57.200 --> 2:06:00.280 that's the beauty has no definition. Yeah it but that's 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:02.120 the you know, it doesn't it's all subjective, but that's 2:06:02.120 --> 2:06:04.520 the beauty of wild meat to me. Is that gaminess, right, 2:06:04.640 --> 2:06:07.800 or rather the taste of wild meat. But you know, 2:06:07.880 --> 2:06:10.440 aging it for a long period of time actually decreases 2:06:10.600 --> 2:06:14.240 that aroma of gaminess that it makes it more savoring. Right, 2:06:14.280 --> 2:06:16.520 It's like a it's like a palatable savor nous that 2:06:16.600 --> 2:06:18.520 you get once it's once it's aged all the way. 2:06:19.440 --> 2:06:22.560 And when you're doing that, the end would be the 2:06:22.720 --> 2:06:26.320 end would be that the dryness on the outside marches 2:06:26.400 --> 2:06:29.280 in from each side and you'd eventually wind up like 2:06:30.200 --> 2:06:34.600 in this perfect situation, this perfect aging situation, like when 2:06:34.640 --> 2:06:37.640 you went too far would be that the part that 2:06:37.680 --> 2:06:41.080 you needed to trim away to get to the good stuff. Uh, 2:06:41.360 --> 2:06:44.080 that part grew and aid away what you were trying 2:06:44.120 --> 2:06:46.040 to say, what you were trying to hang onto in 2:06:46.040 --> 2:06:48.480 the middle. Do you just have like a piece it 2:06:48.600 --> 2:06:51.320 was like a solid rind. Yeah, I mean you got 2:06:51.400 --> 2:06:54.240 you you'll you'll trim off roughly maybe half an inch 2:06:54.360 --> 2:06:57.320 all the way around, basically skin rind around that. But 2:06:57.400 --> 2:06:59.640 that mark, but that slowly goes inward, right, I mean 2:06:59.720 --> 2:07:01.800 over time or does that? Does that? Does that? It 2:07:01.880 --> 2:07:04.000 does over time the head of time and then you 2:07:04.080 --> 2:07:06.600 know so that that's uh that barbary sheep, that al 2:07:06.680 --> 2:07:09.160 dad that have up there. You know you can you know, 2:07:09.320 --> 2:07:12.040 you have an inch that's wasted around you know, Ryan 2:07:12.160 --> 2:07:14.720 all the way around it's wasted, but on the inside 2:07:14.880 --> 2:07:16.840 it's still you know, it's over a year, so it's 2:07:16.920 --> 2:07:19.360 dried all the way. But you can cut off a 2:07:19.440 --> 2:07:21.760 slab of that like for shutto and eat it like that. No, 2:07:21.880 --> 2:07:26.640 ship man, man, that's like I gotta start getting more 2:07:26.680 --> 2:07:29.360 into that ship. Like I've done some I've done some 2:07:29.560 --> 2:07:32.600 of that stuff. Only like what because conditions were right? Yeah, 2:07:32.680 --> 2:07:34.080 well I'll say I'll send you you know what you 2:07:34.120 --> 2:07:35.400 do is we can. I can send you a spect 2:07:35.480 --> 2:07:38.400 later on, like the perfect the perfect environmental conditions for 2:07:38.440 --> 2:07:41.600 all that. Yeah, we'll put that in our shower notes. Man. Yeah, 2:07:42.320 --> 2:07:44.600 all right, do you got Yanna Yanni like a final 2:07:44.760 --> 2:07:47.320 thing you want to ask about? Oh? I do, man, 2:07:47.440 --> 2:07:50.160 But I think we're at a time really well, yeah, 2:07:50.200 --> 2:07:53.960 we're close. Yeah, my colu, you are throwing away if 2:07:54.000 --> 2:07:56.480 you hunting fish and handle your own stuff, you're throwing 2:07:56.480 --> 2:07:58.400 away a lot of good stuff. You don't it's not 2:07:58.480 --> 2:08:01.520 even that you're a dick, just you just don't know. 2:08:02.400 --> 2:08:03.920 You could be a dick too. But it's like you 2:08:04.000 --> 2:08:05.880 don't really good stuff because you just don't know how 2:08:05.960 --> 2:08:08.720 good it is. Yeah, someone's got to show you. You 2:08:08.840 --> 2:08:10.480 gotta talk to people who know more than you know. 2:08:11.600 --> 2:08:14.240 There's there's there's not enough information about it. Really. I 2:08:14.320 --> 2:08:16.080 think that, you know, we gotta look at our practices 2:08:16.120 --> 2:08:20.280 and reassess. But you know, you need you know, it's 2:08:20.320 --> 2:08:24.640 not like it's not that easy to use, you know, 2:08:24.720 --> 2:08:26.440 eel skin if you've never seen it done before, right, 2:08:26.480 --> 2:08:30.400 So we've got to have the information. It wouldn't Yeah, yeah, 2:08:30.520 --> 2:08:32.680 you don't know that you're you don't know that you're 2:08:32.720 --> 2:08:36.680 not being smart until someone demonstrates it to you. All Right, 2:08:37.200 --> 2:08:38.880 you got any final things you want to add that 2:08:39.480 --> 2:08:41.120 That was the one dude. It's like we should do 2:08:41.240 --> 2:08:43.200 this like every little once in a while and just 2:08:43.320 --> 2:08:46.320 keep talking about it because yeah, I got it. Well 2:08:46.360 --> 2:08:48.480 it's never ending, really, right, it's never ending if you 2:08:48.560 --> 2:08:50.920 really start to look at every animal. Right, there's so 2:08:51.040 --> 2:08:53.760 many and everyone's a little different. And we haven't even 2:08:53.760 --> 2:08:57.760 gotten into how to slower grilled pineapple with clarified butter. Well, 2:08:58.040 --> 2:09:00.920 that's our butter. It's not even clarified butter. It's butter 2:09:00.960 --> 2:09:04.400 and rum our, butter and rum, butter and rum. Yeah, alright, 2:09:04.680 --> 2:09:07.960 next time. Next time it's all about pineapples. Alright, Uh, 2:09:08.360 --> 2:09:10.560 thanks again. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate you 2:09:10.560 --> 2:09:13.840 guys coming all right, man, don't forget the Meat Eator 2:09:13.920 --> 2:09:19.280 Live event, Ellen Theater, Bosa, Montana, August six pm. Still 2:09:19.320 --> 2:09:21.160 got a couple of tickets. Get him now,