1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks, DJ, Bucky 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: back with you, Buck? What is going on? Man? 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: Not too much. DJ had a chance to finish watching 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: the finals. It was quicker than I would have wanted 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: it to be because now that officially kicks off that 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: there is nothing to watch on TV but a little 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: midsummer baseball. 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Padres stink. So it's like I've already 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I challenged the Podreys everye. Just get me 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: to the football season, like, stay in it, and they've 12 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: They've lost a million games in a row. So now 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, the finals are over. Football season feels kind 14 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: of far off. And now my baseball team I follow 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: is not very good. So you know what that means. 16 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: It's time to go on vacation. That's what that means. Buck, 17 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: That's what it either means. It's time to go on vacation. 18 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: There's the time for you to send random texts about 19 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: the Dodgers losing and yeah, I do I transition. 20 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: I do the natural trade pro Podres to anti Dodgers. 21 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: That's how my fandom usually go is during this time 22 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: of the year. But what was your takeaway, by the way, 23 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: with the Celtics winning that thing, anything we can learn 24 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: and carry order football? 25 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: Well, I would say that when you hit on your picks, 26 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: it gives you a chance. Back to back years, they 27 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: hit on Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown in different order, 28 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 2: but they get those guys. And then I would say 29 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: Brad Stevens doing something I think is a very difficult transition. 30 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: To go from being a guy that is the coach 31 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: on the floor to be in the front office executives. 32 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: It requires you to think about the game in a 33 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: different way. We've talked about our front off experience. When 34 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: you're the head coach, you're thinking about today the immediate results. 35 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: When you're the general manager of the front office, you're 36 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: thinking about how can we have long term subsame success, 37 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: and so some of the moves that you make are 38 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: with the future in mind. Brad Stevens has been able 39 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: to transition from being a really good coach in the 40 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: NBA to being a really good executive, a championship level executive, 41 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: and I think that's something that's difficult, and I don't 42 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: know if he gets enough credit for being able to 43 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: change his vision and how he evaluated putting the pieces 44 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: of the puzzle to allow your team to be good 45 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 2: today while also being like set for success tomorrow. 46 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a little bit of a It's 47 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: an interesting example of someone who can impact the game 48 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: as a head coach. There's only so much you can 49 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: do as a head coach. Like it's a Jimmy's and 50 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: Joe's league in the NBA, Like you got to have guys. 51 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: If you don't have guys, you can be the best 52 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: x's and o's, the best technician. You know, you can 53 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: draw up every play you want. If you don't have 54 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: the guys, it doesn't really matter. So he was as 55 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: good a reputation wise as anybody as a coach. But 56 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: I think he you know, and I know there's probably 57 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: other reasons for it, but he can impact their success 58 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: more as a general manager than he can as a coach. 59 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: I think whoever constructs a roster in the NBA is 60 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: way more impactful than whoever's just coaching on the sideline. 61 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: And that's take nothing away from Joe Mizoula. He's a 62 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: phenomenal coach and he's in game. He does a great job. 63 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: You can tell he's got those guys all dialed in. 64 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: But I think the impact can be made more from 65 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: the front office and roster construction than in terms of 66 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: coaching the team on a daily basis. 67 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll see this. They are also a team 68 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: that is forward thinking in terms of the way that 69 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: they play really being analytical driven. The number of three 70 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: pointers that I mean you talk about shooting them in volume, 71 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: and the way that DJ we saw when they're hitting, 72 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: they get you out their arena, they blow you out 73 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 2: by a ton, and then the days that they're off, 74 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: they're not. But like not only saying that we're going 75 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: to follow this analytical plan, but we're going to draft 76 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: and acquire the pieces that work for that approach. We've 77 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: seen analytics kind of infiltrate the NFL, but not to 78 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: the degree that it has in basketball and even in baseball. 79 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: But look, it's a unique strategy and unique approach. But 80 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: the Celtics kind of operate like baseball is operated for 81 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: the last decade, where the decisions are really made up top, 82 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: and the head coach is really almost like a middle 83 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: manager that is just kind of watching the pieces kind 84 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: of play out. And that's not being disrespectful to Joe Miszula, 85 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: but that's kind of how they operate. 86 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: I also was thinking of, you know, in the NFL, 87 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: you have teams will say, oh, this is an explosive offense, 88 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: but they've got to cover up for their defense. They're 89 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: going to find themselves in shootouts, or this is a 90 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: dominant defense, but you know they're not gonna score many points. 91 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: Like the Celtics are a complete team from the standpoint. 92 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: They're dynamic and explosive. You talked about hitting threes, doing 93 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: all that stuff offensively, but then defensively they smother you 94 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: one through five and everybody they bring in there, they'll 95 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: get into you. So I thought that was kind of 96 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: interesting combination. Remind me a little bit of the Chiefs, 97 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: the high flying offensive Chiefs, and all of a sudden, 98 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: now they have this smothering defense to compliment. And I 99 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: think back, you know, going back in the day to 100 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: you know those you know, you saw it, you know, 101 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: with those Packer teams, kind of the Brett Favre era Packers. 102 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 1: They could be dynamic offensively, but then they can smother 103 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: you defensively. That was the same with the Cowboys during 104 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: the they're in the nineties, the forty nine ers. You know, 105 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: you think about Jerry Rice and Joe Montana and all 106 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: that stuff, but then you've got Charles Haley, Ronnie Lott 107 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: and all those guys on the other side. So I 108 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: think they are a complete team. And the other thing 109 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: that stood out to me from a roster building standpoint. 110 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: We mentioned this before. One of my buddies, Ricky Olchek, 111 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 1: who's who's an executive in the NHL, we were talking 112 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: one time about trade deadline and how do they approach 113 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: that in hockey versus maybe how we look at it 114 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: in other sports, and he said, if you look at 115 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: the championship hockey teams, for the most part, at the 116 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: trade deadline, they add somebody with championship experience that is 117 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: an unselfish glue player. And I'm sitting there watching the 118 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: Celtics and I don't follow it as closely as you do, Buck, 119 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: but I'm watching Holiday and I'm like, Okay, they brought 120 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: in a guy who's won a championship who's completely unselfish 121 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: and who is I mean, he plays He plays with 122 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: one hundred percent effort at all times. 123 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: And it's not only that DJ. So we talked about 124 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: analytics and scouting or whatever. You just look at his 125 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 2: length and just how many problems he can cause just 126 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: by being able to really play man demand and do 127 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: those things. And I saw on a podcast because someone 128 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: was with him in Philadelphia, might have been Andre Iwidala 129 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: and Evan Turner their podcast they were talking about how 130 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: they were just saying, man, if he could ever learn 131 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: how to use his length and just challenge people to 132 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: keep him in front, he said, people have a tough 133 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 2: time scoring. And it makes me think about, like we 134 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 2: had a conversation with Chris Harris about cornerbacks and the 135 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: crossover ability, and how I think we mentioned that Chris 136 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: Harris was a three sport athlete, and how a lot 137 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: of times when you're a recruiter and in college looking 138 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: at high school guys, you're looking at them play other 139 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: sports because some of those things translate, well, how do 140 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 2: they move, how do they do that stuff? And I'm 141 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: just looking at Drew Holliday and his length and how 142 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 2: he smothers and how man like those traits would make 143 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: him an outstanding cornerback in the league, just in terms 144 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: of his ability to just really be able to shrink 145 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: the court for somebody but you're right, he is a 146 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: glue guy. His experience, championship pedigree from his time at Milwaukee. 147 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: He is being able to fill in and kind of 148 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: do whatever is needed. I think that works. And I 149 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: will also say this and looking at the team Derek 150 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: White being able to do those things. As much as 151 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: we talk about the stars, and even in our league 152 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: we talk about stars and how important those marquee guys are, 153 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: but man, it's the glue guys that really determine how 154 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: far you can go when it comes to the postseason. 155 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's an interesting thing too because I saw 156 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: somebody talking about the other day they did the exercise 157 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: or they were referencing the exercise that we did in 158 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: the playoffs last year, which was let's draft between these 159 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: two rosters, and you start realizing how lopsided it is. 160 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: You're like, dude, we get to nine guys from this 161 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: team before we get to three guys on the other team. Like, 162 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: that's not a fair fight. 163 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: It's not a fair fight. And it shows up and 164 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: it's another thing where we talk about, Man, it's not 165 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: the XS and o's, it's to Jimmies and Joe's. And 166 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: if you want to have a chance to win a championship. 167 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: You got to make sure that you have to write 168 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: Jimmies and Joe's in the building because talent ultimately gives 169 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: you the best chance, the greatest opportunity to win. So 170 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: if we're drafting and doing that stuff, like we have 171 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: to draft with a championship in mind, make sure we 172 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: get the right pieces. They will give us a chance 173 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: and then we can figure out the tactics. But you 174 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: got to get the right people in place. 175 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: The other thing I was thinking of was how many 176 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: times have you had coaches tell you, hey, it's a 177 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: team game. You know, we're all in this together, but 178 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: we all need to dominate our individual matchups. Like that's 179 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: what's unique about football, You're right, is that it is 180 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: a team game. There's a lot of players involved in 181 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: every play, twenty two guys on the field, so you've 182 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: got the coordination aspect of it and being on the 183 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: same page and not getting outside of the scheme. But 184 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: there is also that there is a one on one 185 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: matchup on every play, and can you dominate your one 186 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: on once? I don't know if you saw the little 187 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: thing they had with miked up with Jalen Brown when 188 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: he was like, Hey, if Luca, Luca gives a ball up, 189 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: he's not getting it back. He wants the ball, He's 190 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: gonna have to bring it up the floor. And then 191 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: he said later they had him miked up and he's like, hey, 192 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: if Luca goes back in, I'm in Like, I'm like. 193 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: That was his that was his his focus. That was 194 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: where his eyesights were, was that one on one matchup. 195 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's also talk about this because and I'll 196 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: say it and we've talked about it a little bit 197 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: in our previous experiences about smart players and how you 198 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: can never have enough smart players. 199 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: DJ. 200 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: I don't think it's a coincidence that Jalen Brown went 201 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: to cal Jason Tatum went to Duke Drew Holliday went 202 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: to UCLA. Like you talk about high i Q players, 203 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: smart players, and just the latitude that smart guys can 204 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: give you as a head coach in terms of the 205 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 2: volume in those things. And it seems like a little thing, 206 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: particularly in basketball because guys are kind of coming out 207 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: so early. But I just remember all those conversations that 208 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: we had when we were the Carolina Panthers and we 209 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: were in the Super Bowl the Final four. Man it 210 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 2: was comprised of the teams with the most college graduates, 211 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: and to me, there's still something too. Intelligence and just 212 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: the need to make sure that I have a really 213 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: smart team. If you give me a really smart team, 214 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: I'm gonna find a way win a bunch of games 215 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 2: because I can do more with my players because of 216 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: their mental capacities. 217 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: We talked about it with whiteouts, you know, when you 218 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: look at the white outs that have that have kind 219 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: of emerged in this new wave of whiteouts that we have. 220 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: We talked about toughness and play strength and some other 221 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: things they have in common. But intelligence, you know, we 222 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: talked I think it was less need or someone we 223 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: talked to talked about how guys that came in and 224 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: knew everything like we could, we could put them in 225 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: any position interchangeable having that understanding knowledge. Chris Harris talked 226 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: about it on the pod the other day about how 227 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: he had to know everything. That was his advantage of 228 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: the undrafted player to make the team is I knew everything. 229 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: I knew all every position, corner, safety, nickel, you name it, 230 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: I can play it. So I do think that that 231 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: gets lost a little bit in the process. But man, 232 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: you get a team of comprises some really smart dudes. 233 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: By the way, you want to you want to talk 234 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: to some smart guys, go talk to McDuffie with the 235 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah, yeah, I mean incredibly incredibly smart dude. 236 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: So anyways, I think there's some fun takeaways there on 237 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: the basketball side of things, which we take over to football. 238 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: Let's buck, let's we're gonna do an early break in 239 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: this episode. Break early early break because I want to 240 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: want to save our time because we're gonna come back. 241 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: We're gonna do three episodes, three more episodes this week 242 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: where we're going to rank these positions quarterbacks, receivers, running 243 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: backs I Division one, two, three, four, and then as 244 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: we kind of get through it, we'll we'll tabulate the 245 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: numbers and having a bild do that for us, and 246 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: we'll figure out, like, okay, we're some teams that are 247 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: maybe we think construction wise offensively, uh you could see 248 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: some some dynamic offense from inside their own division. So 249 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: we'll start with the quarterbacks and we'll do that right 250 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: after this. All right, Buck, you Rader rock, Let's let's 251 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: get going to it. Let's start with the Let's start 252 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: in the AFC and let's start in the AFC East. 253 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: So I've got my numbers already down, so I'm not 254 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: gonna be influenced by you. Well, I'm gonna see if 255 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: we end up coming to some of these same conclusions here. 256 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: So one, two, three four, how do you stack the 257 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: quarterbacks in the AFC East? No, Bill, you got to 258 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: keep track of these so you can tabulate these numbers 259 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: for us. 260 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: Go ahead, Buck, okay, one, two, three four. The way 261 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: that ial him, I have Josh Allen to Aaron Rodgers 262 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: and then Jacoby Bressett. 263 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So I thought that I was going to be alone. 264 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: I thought that you would put Aaron Rodgers at two. 265 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: I did the exact same thing you did. I've got 266 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: Josh Allen one, I've got two of two. I've got 267 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers three, I've got Jacoby Brissett four, which to me, 268 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: we can all agree. Allen's one per set is for 269 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: the conversation and debate is Tua versus Aaron, and when 270 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: you factor under health and recent performance and expectations of 271 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: where they are. I don't. I just I couldn't get myself. 272 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: I respect Aaron and what he's done and accomplished, but 273 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't put him down over to a 274 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: based off of recent history. 275 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard. I mean, you'd be giving a lifetime 276 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: Ajiatment award. I mean to number are what they are, 277 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: and his production and performance on the field, certainly Marris 278 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: him being in that conversation. Is he an all timer? 279 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: Is he a top five quarterback in this league? I 280 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: would say no, But it's hard to dispute what he's 281 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 2: been able to do with the weapons around him and 282 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: in the offense that Michael James has, Like, so you 283 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: have to give him, give Hi his flowers. 284 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the one and four were pretty 285 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: self explanatory there. I don't think there was any any 286 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: uh in any debate or any thought whatsoever of coming 287 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: off those guys at one and four, with Josh Allen 288 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: at one and with Brissett there at four. We'll see 289 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: how long it takes Drake may maybe this is an 290 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: entire red shirt year for him. We'll see. It looks 291 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: like he got a little bit better as we went 292 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: through the through the off season, and hopefully that continues 293 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: on into the regular season. All Right, This next one, 294 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: I think is the is one where there is a 295 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: debate at the top, because this is a division that 296 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: I've said that the North, the AFC North NFC North 297 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: are two most intriguing divisions. I think they're the two 298 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: best divisions in the NFL. So how do you stack 299 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: him up? One through four? AFC North Buck. 300 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: Okay, Look, I know this is gonna be controversial, but 301 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: I'm okay, I'm gonna stand on it. So let's go 302 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson. 303 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: One, two, three four. Okay, That's why I said it 304 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: was going to be a debate. I had Lamar Jackson, 305 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson. So we had same, 306 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: we had the same three and four. It's just one 307 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: and two and that of all these lists, of all 308 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: these divisions, this is the one. And we could say, 309 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, look, we're not talking for those that don't know. 310 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: When you're in a draft room, you know, one thing 311 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: that never comes up. It never comes up that this 312 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: guy won a Heisman Trophy or this guy was All 313 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: Conference or this guy accolades don't mean anything when we're 314 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: when we're stacking these guys. So the MVPs don't. This 315 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: is not part of the way we do business. It's 316 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: not the way scouts think, it's not the way scouts talk, 317 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: it's not the way we're going to do it here. 318 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: So I'm not I'm not saying I gave Lamar Jackson 319 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: no because he's won a couple MVPs. I really buck 320 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: I went with Lamar Jackson over Joe Burrow because I 321 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: can rely on him just health wise. I mean, that 322 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: was the type he has been available and been. Joe 323 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: Burrow as might be my number one favorite player in 324 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: the entire league, and if I knew for a fact 325 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: you're going to try him out there for seventeen weeks, 326 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: I probably would would switch to your side. But based 327 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: off of availability, I factored that in. 328 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's a discussion that is worthy of 329 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: being thrown into the conversation when talking about Burrow and 330 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: Jackson and the health considerations. Because Lamar Jackson has been available, 331 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: he is coming off to the MVP campaign the thing 332 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: that does it for me. When it comes to Joe Burrow, 333 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: I would say, in a one game scenario, I am 334 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: more comfortable with Joe Burrow as my QB one in 335 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: terms of style of play and how are we going 336 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: to get it done? Throwing it on the perimeter, the 337 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: way he takes his game up another notch, the way 338 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: that he's performed routinely in the postseason. I've seen Joe 339 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: Burrow take his team to a super Bowl. I've yet 340 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: to see that from Lamar Jackson. So to me, the 341 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: nod came in the postseason performance, in the postseason pedigree. 342 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: That's how I separated one and two in the AFC North. 343 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, I would I if I if 344 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: we were just talking about being out there and running 345 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: them out there every single week, I probably would would 346 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: join you. Now, I gotta be honest and be fair 347 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: here because I'm basing that off of last year and 348 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: the two previous years. Lamar Jackson played twelve games, twelve games, 349 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: missed the playoff game, So he hasn't been you know, 350 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: he hasn't been an iron man from that standpoint. But 351 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: just based off of the recent history in my mind 352 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: from last year to this year, I just that's why 353 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: I leaned the way I lean. 354 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: So here's the funny thing, because I will talk about 355 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: those two guys and I think they're a bunch of 356 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 2: good points. DJ I don't know if I had on 357 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: the Bengo card that you and I would both rank 358 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: Russell Wilson over to Shaun Watson. Just given the conversation 359 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: that has been around Russell Wilson Russell Wilson, it's cut 360 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: or let oh in the offseason has to look around 361 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: in front. 362 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: Of the guys. One guy's playing for a million dollars 363 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: this year and the other guy's playing for a lot 364 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: more than a million dollars this. 365 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: Year, right, And yet here we are saying that Russell 366 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 2: Wilson is ahead of de Shaun Watson. It just kind 367 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: of shows how far I would say the shine has 368 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: come off to Shawn Watson. But then when you look 369 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 2: at the numbers DJ, he's played twelve games for the Browns, 370 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: He's completed less than sixty percent of his passes and 371 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 2: at fourteen to nine touchdown the interception ratio that's significant. 372 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: I just find a surprise and that we have maybe 373 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: the top paid quarterback, John Watson, sitting at the bottom 374 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: of this. 375 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because your factor in the age, right, 376 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: But I just feel more confident that if Russell Wilson 377 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: at his peak wasn't a right. I feel more confident 378 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: that Russell Wilson can get back to being a B 379 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: B plus player, whereas I'm not as confident that that 380 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: Shaun Watson can get any more close to his A game. 381 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: It just he doesn't resemble himself. It doesn't look anything 382 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: like what he looked like when he was at his apex. 383 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: So that's why. And I like to fit there actually, 384 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: like with what I know, people are all over Arthur Smith. 385 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: By the way, how can you have it both ways? 386 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: How can you say that the Atlanta Falcons have never 387 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: had a quarterback? And then how and then say that 388 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: Arthur Smith was deplorable as a play caller and a 389 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: terrible like I don't understand how those you can you 390 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: can have one of those opinions. I don't know that 391 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: you can adopt both. 392 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: No, you can't. You can't. You can't adopt you can't 393 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: adopt both. It is It is interesting the way the 394 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 2: conversation is because the disdain for Russell Wilson, the questions 395 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: around Arthur Smith. To me, I think it's a match 396 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 2: made of heaven, and I just go back to what 397 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 2: Arthur Smith was able to do with Ryan Tannegil. Maybe 398 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: that's why I'm so optimistic that Russell Wilsons gonna bounce back. 399 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: Now I'm with you on that one. Okay, let's go 400 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: AFC South. How do you go? One, two, three, four. 401 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna be I think we're going to 402 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: be in lockstep on this one. 403 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 2: Uh maybe I got c J. Stroud, Trevor Lawrence, Anthony 404 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: richards and Will Levis. And when it comes down to it, 405 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: the way c J. Stroud played last year, Look, he 406 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: was to I think Trevor Lawrence has some bumps in 407 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: a row, particularly after injuries. So that's why I had 408 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: them one and two and then Richardson Levis to me, 409 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 2: I mean Richardson only played at four games, Levis was 410 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 2: up and down. I just kind of went on the 411 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: talent separating three and four. But at the top the CJ. Stroud, 412 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 2: I'll play Trevor Lawnce last year. That's why I want 413 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 2: to make sure s Flowers. 414 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had the exact same order. I would say, 415 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that Trevor Lawrence healthy, that he closes that gap, 416 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: and that's that ends up being the next great quarterback 417 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: battle in the league, you know, because these guys are 418 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: going to be in these these spots for a very 419 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: long time, and then you get more of the raw 420 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: players with Anthony Richardson, Will Levis. Whichever side you come 421 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: down on that, I came down with Richardson just because 422 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: of his ability to run and that adding to the mix. 423 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: But obviously he's got to stay healthy for that to 424 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: be the case. But I do feel like the Stroud 425 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: Lawrence competition is not only going to be a great 426 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: individual race to see how these two guys play, but 427 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: I think those two teams are going to be button 428 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: heads for a decade plug, which is gonna be a 429 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: lot of fun. 430 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: Oh it's all. I mean, it's on and popping. I mean, 431 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: I think Trevor Lawrence certainly has heard the conversation. Uh 432 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: C J. Strouds seemingly taking the baton from him as 433 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: the bell of the ball, the cream of the crop 434 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: in the a FC South. We'll see if number sixteen 435 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: can find a way to work his way back. Okay, 436 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: let's go AFC West. Uh to me, I don't think 437 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: it's a bit of surpris Let's go Pat Mahomes. Yeah, 438 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: Pat Mahomes. Justin Herbert, I did throw a curveball, then 439 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: I put bow nicks O whoa. 440 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, well, yeah, I kept it kind of chalk 441 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: here because I ended up going with Minshew just because 442 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: he's been in the league and at least has some 443 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: put up decent numbers. So and we'll see it. A 444 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: O'Connell could be the starter there. That's not even a lock. 445 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: That's going to be Garner Minshew eight and O'Connell did 446 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: some good things last year. And uh, you know you've 447 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: got Stidham still there in Denver. But let's assume that 448 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: bo Nix ends up winning that gig. I think that's 449 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: the discussion. I mean, look, Mahomes won Herbert two, no 450 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: surprise there. I'm anxious to see, you know, some new 451 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: pieces around justin Herbert, some younger pieces, losing a couple 452 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: key weapons. But I think what people have to realize 453 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: with Herbert is that, yeah, you can say, O, Keenan's gone, 454 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: Mike's gone, but they've missed a lot of time over 455 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: those years too, So it's not like he's had those 456 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: guys the whole time either. 457 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 2: Yes, he had to play without him for a long time, 458 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: and he's been able to be productive without those guys. 459 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: The thing that separates him and Pat Mahomes and Pat 460 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 2: Mahomes has been able to play with A level players 461 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: and win, and he's also been able to play with 462 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: B level players around him and win. To me, that's 463 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 2: a testament to his ability as a franchise quarterbacks to 464 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,479 Speaker 2: take over the game. I'm a believer in justin Herbert. 465 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 2: We just haven't seen it, Like, I don't have enough 466 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: concrete evidence to be like, hey, guys, look, this is 467 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: why you have to talk about him like that. But 468 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: in terms of intangibles, intelligence, athleticism, arm tell all that 469 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: he checks off all the boxes. 470 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious to see on Herbert's career. And then 471 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: we'll move on to the NFC. But if he has 472 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of a Matthew Stafford type climb, 473 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I could see that that arc 474 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: for him as they try and build up around him. Okay, 475 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: let's get to the NFC. NFC East is an interesting 476 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: one here, Buck, How do you go? 477 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: Because so it is very interesting, but I am going 478 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: to go Dak Prescott, Jalen Hurts, Jaden Daniels, Daniel Jones, 479 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: one two three four Prescott. 480 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: At the time, yep, I did the same exact thing 481 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: and you know, look, you come off Jalen Hurts two 482 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: years ago, but last year was not the same. He's 483 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: another one who takes a lot of physical toll. There's 484 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: a lot of physical toll on his body with the 485 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: way that he plays. He needs to have a bounce 486 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: back year. But I think you know, Jayden Daniels three 487 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: over Daniel Jones. It's a little bit you're kind of 488 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: buying sight unseen, but just you know, the way that 489 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: he played last year on his way to being the 490 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: second overall pick, and the early returns that you hear, 491 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: and having done our homework on what he's like in 492 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: terms of the work ethics, standpoint intelligence, all all that 493 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: off the charts. So we're going a little we're flying 494 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: blind there on that one with him at three. But 495 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: the one that I want to just hit on briefly 496 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: here it's Dak Prescott. I mean, it's hard because the 497 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: Cowboys every show talks about him so much. To the 498 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: most criticized scrutinized football. Yeah, they get get the underrated buck. 499 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: Like we isn't too much too much hate on him. 500 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: I think he's underrated for his regular season performances, and 501 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 2: I think he gets a lot. He's a lighted vote 502 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: criticism in the postseason, didn't play well in the postseason 503 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: game they lose to the Green Bay Packers, and all 504 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 2: of the hate and dismissiveness that people had against him 505 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: kind of reappeared. But when you look at the regular season, 506 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: his numbers are phenomenal. What he's been able to do, 507 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: how he quickly adapted to new offense. To me, he 508 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 2: says everything you need to know about his like his 509 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 2: his intellect, his intelligence and intentional. 510 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the NFC North here. How 511 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: do you go? 512 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: Who's tough? And I know this is going to draw 513 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: the ire of some I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. Look, man, 514 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: going all the way back. We've been consistent in this 515 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: since we've had Golf versus WinCE, I've always gone with golf. 516 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: So I got Golf one, Jordan Loved to Caleb Williams three, 517 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: then Sam Donald at four. 518 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't I thought that. I didn't think that's 519 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: controversial at all. Jared, Golf is one for me. I 520 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: have Jordan Love two, I have Sam Donald three, Caleb 521 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: Williams four. And that's just I mean, look, that's just 522 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: because I think it's gonna be a little bit of 523 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: an adjustment period with Caleb, and then I think that, 524 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, he's got a chance. Sky's the lemma, and 525 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm bullish on Sam Donald with Kevin O'Connell and all 526 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: the pieces that they have there in uh in Minnesota. So, uh, 527 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: the two Trojans there Donald and Caleb Williams is a 528 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: good debate. I think that's something that maybe if we're 529 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: talking the first eight games, I've got Sam Donald, maybe 530 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: the last seven or what is it nine games? Now 531 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: I got it used to that the last nine games, 532 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: maybe it's Williams. But I want Sam Donald to start 533 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: it off here. 534 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 2: Well I knew that, and I and I anticipated that, 535 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: and uh, the only reason why you go I went 536 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 2: with Kaylen Williams over Sam Donald is I just believe 537 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 2: the supporting cast around Kay Williams is gonna make it 538 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: where he's not gonna be able to fall to There's 539 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: just too many good players around him, where if he 540 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 2: just is a past first point guard, the production and 541 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: numbers are gonna fall for you, where Sam Donald's gonna 542 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 2: have to play a little more. There was some uncertainty 543 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: for a little bit about justin Jefferson. Can they build 544 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 2: that chemistry because that Kayleb Williams to me is the 545 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 2: pick just right now. 546 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm also looking at with Sam Donald. A lot 547 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: of people when JJ McCarthy was drafted thought, oh okay, 548 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: JJ McCarthy, he's gonna he's gonna jump right into that 549 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: starting lineup. And I don't believe that. I thought Sam 550 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: Donald's going to have this job. He's gonna win this 551 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: job early, and the blueprints out there, and I think 552 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: Kevin uh and talking to Kevin O'Connell in the run 553 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: up to the draft, he was confident in Sam and 554 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: how we fit there, and the blueprint was there with 555 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield and what he did in Tampa, you know, 556 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: same classes Sam. Obviously they were teammates there with the 557 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: Carolina Panthers, but he got, you know, after bouncing around 558 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: in some different spots, Baker Mayfield got with the right 559 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: people on Tampa and you saw the talent that made 560 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: him the first overall pick show through. And they feel 561 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: like with Sam Donald, the same same type of thing 562 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: can happen there with the Minnesota Vikings. He has a 563 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: good year and then that then they have good problems. 564 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: Right you end up having to decide do we want 565 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: to extend Sam Donald, do we want to trade him? 566 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: Move on? You know, franchise and whatever. You've got decisions 567 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: to make, but they're good decisions. With JJ McCarthy waiting 568 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: in the wings there, all right, NFC South, Bucker. 569 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: So NFC South. I mean this is about like where 570 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: you put your money at, and so Kirk Cousins, Baker Mayfield, 571 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 2: Derek Carr than Bryce Young and Kirk Cousins for me, 572 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: was the obvious choice to be number one, just because 573 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: like what we anticipate, what we anticipated the Atlanta Falcons 574 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: doing with him in the fold before they surprised us 575 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 2: and took Michael Pennix. That doesn't change any thing. I 576 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: expect Kirk Cousins to be the He's a long starter, 577 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: and if he is the start and just plays to 578 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 2: what he's played, he's going to put up ridiculous numbers. 579 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: Another four thousand yurod season should be expected, and this 580 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: offense should finally play and perform at a level that 581 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: many of us expected when you saw them accumulate so 582 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 2: many young dynamic playmakers on. 583 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: The perim yep. I ended up going with the exact 584 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: name Kirk Cousins, Baker Mayfield, Derek Carr, Bryce Young, and 585 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: I'll say, at the end of this year, if you're 586 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: a Carolina Panthers fan, you need Bryce Young to pass 587 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: Derek Carr. You need him to be the third. You 588 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: need him to be at least the third best quarterback 589 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: in this division. You're hoping, you know, maybe he can 590 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: climb a little bit higher because you know, Kirk's older 591 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: coming off in Achilles. Baker's been you know, found his 592 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: groove last year, but has had an up and down 593 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: you know, career. Like you take Bryce Young where you 594 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: took him, you traded what you traded for him. He 595 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: needs to climb his way up to at least, you know, 596 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: eventually being the second best quarterback this division. But I'm 597 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: saying that let's make the target this year. He's got 598 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: a reel end Derek Carr. At the end of this year, 599 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: we have to say that Carolina Panthers are in a 600 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: better position quarterback wise than New Orleans Saints or at 601 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: that point in time after two years. Buck, I'd be 602 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: a little bit nervous, Yeah, I. 603 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 2: Would be nervous if he's not able to kind of 604 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: move up the ranks and catch Derek Carr, who has 605 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 2: really become a checkdown master it is, it would be 606 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 2: problematic and concerning. I still not in love with all 607 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: the weapons that they have around him. I think they 608 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: need more. 609 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: No, absolutely, That's why I'm sitting the bar, just climbing 610 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: up one spot. I'm not asking him to do more 611 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: than that. But you know, you got to the game. 612 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: But knowing Bryce, in terms of watching him and watch 613 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: how he progressed at Alabama, the game should slow down. 614 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: If he slows down weeken process and know exactly where 615 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 2: to go with the football, He's gonna have a lot 616 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: of success. It's just a matter of him slowing everything 617 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: down and then giving him enough fire prior to be 618 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: able to do what he did so successfully when he 619 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: was a collegiate. All right, let's get to the NFC 620 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 2: West Okay, Yeah, let's just put it out there. Matthew Stafford, 621 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 2: Geno Smith, and Colin Murray. Whoa that has a little 622 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 2: more probably bite and controversy towards it. But I'm okay, 623 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: Brock Puridy, I'm gonna say this, Brock pretty because of 624 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 2: the way that he entered the league and even in 625 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: watching him at the East West Ryane I just didn't 626 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: know what he was going to be down the line, 627 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 2: goes to the right situation, right spot, and really displays 628 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: all the characteristics and the tangibles that make you fall 629 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: in love with quarterbacks. He has that. He's an easy story. 630 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 2: He has more athleticism people give him credit for. He 631 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: got some spunk to him, some dog to him. That 632 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: really and it was his teammates to fall in line. 633 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: And when I look at him and Matthew Stafford, I 634 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: just believe Purdy gets so much more out of his 635 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: people on offense and defense because of his personnelity. 636 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just go with efficiency, and I don't think 637 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: anybody's more efficient than brock Party in terms of decision making, accuracy, 638 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: finding explosive plays. 639 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: Over. 640 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: This is where we're past it now. He's been to 641 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. We're we're past giving all the praise 642 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: to supporting cast play color playmakers and all that stuff 643 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: like that stuff's over. He's established himself as a as 644 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: a really a top tier quarterback. So I'm gonna go 645 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: brock Party one, Stafford two. I went Kyler three. Hoping 646 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: now especially with with Marvin Harrison Junior in there, having 647 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,239 Speaker 1: some weapons to work with I think Kyler Murray's due healthy. Uh, 648 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: he's due for a big year. And then Geno Smith 649 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: their new coaching staff coming in some adjustment there. We'll 650 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: see how how Gino plays there. 651 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: Uh. 652 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: You got to remember Sam Howell obviously is has entered 653 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: the building too, so he's gonna have to keep playing 654 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: at a high level or they might get a quick 655 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: look see at Sam Howe at some point in time. 656 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: So we were on the uh you know, we're on 657 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: a similar page there with those quarterbacks. So there you go, 658 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: we got quarterbacks in the books. Uh tomorrow in the 659 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: following day, We've got two more episodes coming this week, 660 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: so there'll be a four episode podcast week here in 661 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: the off season, but ever often, but these next two 662 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: are going to be let's call them a little mini episodes. 663 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: So we'll do running backs and we'll come back and 664 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: we'll do wide receivers as well. So running backs will 665 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: be on Wednesday, and then we'll do the white outs 666 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: there on Thursday. So be on the lookout for those 667 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: two little mini pods coming your way. Little bonus here 668 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: as we get towards the end of the month of June. 669 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate you hanging with us, and we'll see you 670 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: next time right here on moving sticks.