WEBVTT - Cracks in the Narrative 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.080 The medic house to brutally stabbing four University of Idaho 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:07.960 students to death. 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:08.760 Appears in court. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.480 Coberger is accused of murdering University of Idaho students Kailee Gonzalvez, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.000 Madison Mogan, Zena Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:29.120 This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:38.400 and iHeartRadio, episode four cracks in the narrative, I'm Courtney Armstrong, 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:43.080 a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:49.680 and Connor Powell. After being arrested in Pennsylvania, an extradited 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.879 twenty eight year old Brian Coberger is in prison awaiting 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.240 trial for the murders of four University of Idaho students. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.680 Six months after police say the former PhD criminology student 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:08.520 committed the brutal murders. Coberger appeared in an Idaho courtroom. 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.520 The families of several of the victims watched the arraignment 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.240 hearing from the gallery. After a brief glance toward the families, 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.240 Coburger kept his head and eyes looking forward. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:20.520 Day. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.640 We are now on record in a state of Idaho 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.160 versus banger with. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.680 His feet shackled and wearing an orange prison outfit. Coburger 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.440 listened as the judge read the charges against him and 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.480 explained that a conviction carried a penalty of life in 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:37.840 prison or death. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.720 Miss Taylor as mister Coberger prepared to plead to these charges. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.120 When the judge asked Coburger's attorney if he was ready 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.960 to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty, Attorney 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:55.840 Ann Taylor declined. The judge then entered a plea on 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:57.360 behalf of Brian Coburger. 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:03.360 Because Coberger is standing silent, I'm going to answer that 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.600 guilty police each charge. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.480 The judge then set a trial date for October second. 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.639 Brian was very shocked by his arrest. 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.720 While investigators believe they have their man, the case against 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:19.880 Brian Cobeger is far from airtight. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.440 Eager to be exonerated was the language he used as 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:25.960 he was asserting innocence. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.680 It's important to note that Brian Cobeger has not been 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:35.040 found guilty of any crimes. Monroe County public defender Jason 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:40.000 Lebar represented Coburger in Pennsylvania after his arrest. Lebar is 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.920 no longer working for Coburger, but has been a regular 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.760 on TV and in the media, pushing back on the 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:47.080 official police narrative. 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.120 It's a strong circumstantial case, but the evidence, when it 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.239 is viewed individually, you can attack that evidence as a 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:56.160 defense attorney. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:02:59.600 Here's Stephanie and Jeff. 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.000 So at this point, officials are in the very early 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.160 stages of laying out their case against the alleged killer, 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:07.120 Brian Coburger. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.560 Yeah, all that's been released is this nineteen page probable 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.959 cause AFFIDAVID. A probable cause affidavid is a summary of 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.000 the evidence and circumstances of the arrest. It's usually written 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.160 by the arresting officer and given to a judge for 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:19.600 a review. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.920 And within these nineteen pages we learned a lot about 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.919 the night of the massacre and how police zeroed in 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.200 on Coburger specifically. 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.919 A lot of the evidence at this stage is merely circumstantial. Now, 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.320 for listeners who don't know or need a reminder, circumstantial 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.880 evidence is evidence of facts that the court can draw 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.520 conclusions from. So in this case, the fact that we 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.320 know Coburger's cell phone pinged off of towers near the 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.320 scene of the crime points to the idea that he 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.200 may have been around the area when these murders were committed, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.160 and when you put all of that together, it paints 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.000 a pretty damning picture, but it's not direct evidence like 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.000 DNA or being in possession of the murder weapon. We 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.000 need to remember that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.680 and as Coburger's first attorney pointed out, the best way 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.240 for any defense to attack the prosecution is to remind 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.280 the jury that everything the prosecution has is circumstantial, because 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.720 at the end of the day, all the defense needs 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.280 to do is find one jury member who has doubts 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:12.000 about the case. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.120 And it's also important to note that likely investigators have 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:21.359 more evidence than their sharing at this point. In the 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.760 immediate aftermath of the brutal murders, Moscow police said the 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.159 two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk, were home 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.880 during the murders, but they did not wake up until 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.159 later in the morning. That information was part of every 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.800 timeline until December twentieth, when Moscow pdeve removed it. Ten 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.800 days later, when Brian Coberger was arrested, police stated in 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.480 the probable cause Affidavid that Dylan was not only awake, 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:49.760 but had seen the attacker. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.640 This time, she saw a dark figure standing there in 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.720 black clothing, wearing a mask that covered that person's mouth. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.680 She remembered that person being about five foot ten, not 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.880 very muscular, but with an athletic build. She also remembered 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:06.200 seeing bushy eyebrows. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.480 Here again, Jeff and Stephanie. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.760 Regardless of what Dylan may or may not have seen, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.120 she and Bethany are both victims and all this. They 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:19.839 lived through a serious trauma, They lost their friends, and 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:21.599 have been skewered by the media. 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:22.520 It's just not right. 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.159 The prosecution may be sympathetic to that, but they also 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.880 have a case to close, and Dylan is the big 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.920 star witness, and the question is, though, is sheer reliable. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.880 One terrified she remained frozen in place as the suspect 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.000 walked past her and left out the sliding glass door 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:40.560 behind her. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:42.960 There are some things we know based on the probable 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.760 cause effidavit. We know that Dylan was quote unquote frozen 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.159 in fear, that she heard some sort of cries from 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.719 her roommates, and she saw a masked man who was 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.039 slender but not muscular, with bushy eyebrows. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:58.360 Dylan's description definitely offers something, but again, it doesn't really 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.560 link Brian Coberger to the murder, not very muscular, having 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.159 bushy eyebrows that could describe a lot of people. She 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.920 also made no mention of skin color or hair color. 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.840 While at first the information dell And provided seemed to 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.080 point the finger at Coburger, upon closer look at actually 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.680 might be more helpful for the defense because this vague 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.920 description could cause reasonable doubt amongst dury members. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.960 Detectives announced that they are interested in talking to the 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.799 person or people in a white twenty eleven to twenty 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:29.880 thirteen Hondai Elektra. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.799 The first piece of evidence that appears to connect Brian 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.800 Koberger to the crime is his white Hondai Alantra. 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.560 It may be a big break in the case. 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.440 A grainy image of a speeding car that could be 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.240 the white Hondai Alantra police are looking for. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.360 According to the probable Cause Affidavid, multiple security cameras caught 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.120 a white Alantra driving past the home on King Road 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.760 within minutes around the murders. Coburger's first defense attorney, Jason 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.520 Lebar points out that white Olanchas are common cars and 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.120 Coburger is just one of many owners of the four 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:09.760 door Sedan. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.720 The white A Lantra can't be determined to be his 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.720 white Alantra. I mean, there's circumstantial evidence indicating that it 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.920 could potentially be his white A Launcher, but there's certainly 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:22.240 not direct evidence. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.920 Again, Jeff and Stephanie. 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.360 We know that within days of the murders, police told 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.200 the wider community to be on the lookout for a 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:32.239 white Hyundai Elantra. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.360 As a result, the officer at WSU found this exact 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.520 type of car registered to Brian Coburger. 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.440 Police also checked his records and noted that Coburger had 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.960 changed his registration from Pennsylvania to Washington State on November eighteenth, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.160 which was just days after the murder. 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.520 They don't have direct evidence that he's driving the white Alantra. 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.160 Here's the problem. Police haven't provided any evidence that Coburger 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.440 was actually driving the car speeding past the house on 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.160 King Road as of this moment. There's no highway or 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.120 red light camera photos, nothing. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:04.200 That we know of. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.320 And keep in mind, at this point we may not 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.360 have all the information that the police does. 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:10.960 That's true, and we also don't know what they found 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.600 in the car. According to experts we talked to, if 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.160 this was Coburger's car and he really did kill four 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.600 people and then get in and drive away, it's likely that, 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.120 no matter how well he scrubbed and cleaned, there would 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.480 be some sort of DNA evidence in that car from 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:24.200 the night in question. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.840 And I think it's worth noting that DNA can take 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.960 weeks to process, and at the time of his arrest, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.600 investigators didn't have access to his car. 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:38.800 However, now weeks later they do. A key part of 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.960 the prosecution of Brian Coburger will be putting him at 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.400 the scene of the crime. Police also need to place 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.280 Brian Coberger behind the wheel of the suspected vehicle in 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.920 the probable cause AFFIDAVID Investigators rely on historical cell side 0:08:55.000 --> 0:09:02.520 data to make this connection. Here again Jeff and Stephanie. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.040 So in an effort to track Coburger, police really had 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:07.000 to rely on cell phone towers and to see where 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.040 Coburger's cell phone was pinging from A. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.960 Cell phone pang is the act of determining the estimated 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.640 current location of a cell phone. This may be accomplished 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.560 via GPS data or by using cell phone tower triangulation, which, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.360 as we know in this case, is what they used. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.439 Police were able to get a search warrant for Coburger's 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.400 cell phone records because he had been pulled over for 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.000 a traffic violation prior and he gave police his cell 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.160 phone number. Upon reviewing the records, police determined that Coburger's 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.560 phone was connecting to towers in Moscow around that time, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.760 and that his movements were very similar to what the 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.040 alleged killer was doing at that time. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.079 And so I think what we surmise from this is 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.480 that we are all glued to our phones. I'm here's 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:51.400 my in my hand right now. So it stands to 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.080 reason that of Coburger was in the car that night, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.240 so was his phone. However, it should be noted that 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.120 locating a mobile phone based on a single Stete cell 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.600 phone tower places the phone in a broad area, but 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.880 it cannot actually pinpoint the exact location. So it's not 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:07.760 like this is one hundred percent reliable science. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.760 Cell Phones are intimate devices. Their data knows a lot 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.360 about us. If Coburger's phone was in his car, then 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.680 he was likely in his car. Once police began to 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.200 hone in on Brian Coburger, they began looking at his 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.160 movements around the time of the murders. He had given 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.640 his cell phone number to a deputy during a previous 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.400 traffic stop, so police got a search warrant for his 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.280 cell phone records. A police review determined Coburger's phone was 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.480 connecting to towers in the Moscow area and were similar 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.240 to the movements of the suspected white Atlantra investigators believed 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.160 was the murder vehicle. But cell phone pings on a 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.319 tower are not precise GPS location coordinates. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.160 If it was GPS location cordinates, you're talking down to 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.240 a meter as to where Brian Coburger was at the 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.480 time of these crimes, Whereas a cell phone tower ping 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.400 is that you're within a radius of that tower up 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.920 to twenty miles. And obviously mister Coburger lived within ten 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.480 miles of the University of Idaho where these crimes were committed, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.280 so certainly he could ping at any moment in time 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.000 near the actual crime. 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.679 The night of the murders, Coburger's phone was tracked heading 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.880 to Moscow before the attack, but his phone was off 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.960 from two forty seven am to four forty eight AM. 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:24.840 So what you're saying is that this looks like what 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.600 he's trying to conceal his location for these approximately two hours. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.920 Coburger's former attorney said, just because Coburger's phone pings at 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.120 a tower doesn't mean much considering the short distance between Pullman, Washington, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.400 where Coburger lived, and Moscow, where the victims were murdered. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.520 Right because the phone data places him near the scene 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.600 of the crime, but not actually at the scene of 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.679 the crime. Now, his cars built in computer may be 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.000 a different story and provide a lot of data, but 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.959 so far it has not been presented as evidence. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.559 When investigators began combing through the crime scene, they found 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.920 a tan leather knife sheath underneath Madison's body and the comforter. 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:13.520 According to the probable cause Affidavid police found a single 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.480 mail source DNA on the button of that knife sheath. 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.959 Later testing identified that DNA as Brian Coburger's. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.839 On the face of it, this DNA link on the 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.160 knife sheath is very strong evidence against Coburger, but upon 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.440 closer inspection, the existence of DNA on the sheaf doesn't 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.520 actually mean Coburger was there the knight of the murders. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:38.480 All it really means is that at some point he 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.240 came into contact with the knife sheath. 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.040 And granted this all sounds very suspicious, but again just 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.320 throwing it out there as an alternate theory. Maybe somebody 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.320 is trying to frame Coburger and that the real killer 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.800 placed the knife sheath where the victims were murdered. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.160 That is certainly an argument that defense could and probably 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.040 will make without a murder weapon. This evidence is circumstantial. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.000 Remember this, for Gill is beyond a reasonable doubt. 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.840 It does seem like there's a lot of evidence mounting 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.400 against Coburger. There are also plenty of places, though, to 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:09.480 raise reasonable doubt. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.800 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:25.440 a moment. If Brian Coberger's innocent as he claims, are 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.360 there any alternative theories that could explain the murders Jeff 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:30.359 and Stephanie. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.600 Like so many murder investigations, the police looked into many 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.920 different possibilities. In the immediate aftermath of the crimes. The 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.040 first suspect was Kaylee's ex boyfriend, a young man named Jack. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.959 The para dated for about five years and had recently 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.760 broken up, but they were still in communication the night 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.400 of the murders. Between two twenty six and two forty 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.600 four am, Kaylee called Jack six times. Then between two 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.480 forty four and two fifty two am, Madison, who was 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.800 presumably with Kaylee, called him three times. Finally, at two 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.280 fifty two am, Kaylee called him one more time, all 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:01.000 to no avail. 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.120 This was all so tragic for Jack, but again it's 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.439 very common to look at the people closest to the 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.240 victims first when you're starting an investigation. But he was 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:11.840 ultimately cleared very quickly. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.080 So after the ex boyfriend, we heard about a supposed stalker. 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.760 A local business owner went to the press and said 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.560 that about three weeks before the murders, they overheard Madison 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.320 and Kaylee voicing concerns about Kaylee being stocked. She said 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.400 she would beg friends to walk closely behind her at 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.280 all times after becoming terrified of someone who would follow 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.360 her around town. Could this mystery stocker also be the killer? 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.040 And that story was also backed up by the footage 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.280 from this food truck. In this video, if you've seen it, 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.760 it appeared that there was this gentleman, a young guy 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.160 kind of following Kaylee and Madison. And again, depending upon 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.760 how you look at this footage, you could interpret this 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.960 person as looking creepy or suspicious because he was wearing 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.400 a hood. It's a snippet of a video. So is 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.160 everyone just grasping at straws or is this actual real evidence. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.760 Well staph. After this food truck guy, we heard about 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.520 Xana's Doordashulibry and whether or not the driver might have 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.360 seen something or somehow been involved. 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.560 And there were also all of those rumors about a 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:18.200 love triangle gone wrong and scorned roommates seeking revenge. It 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.960 all was getting extremely nuts at this point. It seems 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.480 as though social media at least was targeting a lot 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.160 of people without any information. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.360 And it's safe to assume that investigators checked out all 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.000 these possibilities and people and they were all cleared or 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.000 never even considered suspects in the first place. But unfortunately, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.440 with a case like this, it doesn't really mean much 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.120 for these innocent men and women because they were not 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.560 free from online abuse and the court of public opinion. 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.760 Within hours of the brutal murders, local and national media 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.360 descended on the once relatively unknown town of Moscow and 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.120 began to cover the shocking killings. At nearly the same time, 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.680 an invisible army of internet sleuths and trolls began to 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:06.040 speculate on the investigation from Afar. Dozens of YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:10.560 and Reddit groups emerged overnight to discuss, dissect, and analyze 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.080 all aspects of the case. 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.440 People are making things up because they want answers and 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.800 because the gag order. People are making things up for 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.000 content too, So like on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.080 people are just making shut up and the running with 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.840 it like it was a drug house and you know 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.760 this was a drug deal gone bad and the door 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.200 dash driver was secretly delivering cocaine. You know what I mean. Like, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:32.520 people are just making shut up. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.520 Despite the massive amount of public interest, for weeks, police 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.160 provided few details about the gruesome murders, and the judge 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.840 in Idaho also issued a gag order preventing anyone involved 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.720 from speaking publicly. The Internet often recklessly jumped in to 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.880 fill the void. The baseless speculation and misinformation came with 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.000 grim consequences for real innocent people. 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.280 Just no, I'm not the only one who suspect Rebecca's. 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:05.360 Go a TikTok psychic accused Rebecca Schofield, an associate professor 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.320 at the University, of being in a lover's triangle and 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:09.600 orchestrating the murders. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.640 If anyone would have been considered a person of interest. 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.879 And would have had a motive, it would have been Jack. 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.600 At the same time, a YouTuber accused Kaylee's ex boyfriend, 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.480 Jack Decor of the killings, suggesting their recent breakup after 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.960 five years of dating as a cause for the crime. 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.560 When you talk about like the reddit, because there's so 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.640 many subreddits dedicated to this case. There's Idaho four, There's 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.080 Moscow Murders, there's you know, Brian Coberger Moscow murders. There's 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.640 so many different subreddits dedicated to this case that have, 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.480 i mean hundreds of thousands of posts discussing everything under 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.679 the sun. And because there's no real moderation, you know, 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.119 on those those subreddits, there's all kinds of speculation. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:56.879 You know. 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.560 The moderation on some of the subreddits could use little work. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.560 I mean, people are posting, you know, make they're making 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:04.040 things up. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.120 Deanna Thompson is the co host, along with John Green, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:15.119 of the upcoming iHeart Kat Studios podcast True Crimes with 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.520 John and Deanna. In twenty ten, they led the online 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.560 effort to identify and catch the international serial killer Luca 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.400 Magnata That case was later turned into the popular Netflix 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:33.280 documentary Don't Fuck with Cats. Stephanie and Jeff. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.640 John Green and Deana Thompson aren't your typical online slows. 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.800 They became famous for their work helping catch a killer online. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.280 It was all showcased in Netflix's Don't f with Cats 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.000 in twenty nineteen. Here at Katie Studios, we're actually working 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.240 with them on a new podcast called True Crimes, which 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:48.280 will be out later this year. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.760 And if you haven't seen their documentary, please do. It's 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.280 astounding the work that they do. They're the perfect example 0:18:55.359 --> 0:19:00.240 of people who really conduct ethical, responsible investigations and turn 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.119 over any relevant information to the police. It's impressive and 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:05.639 it's really effective. 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.920 Here's Deanna Thompson aka Body Movin, followed by John Green. 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.879 I do think that people want to make sense of 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:20.000 a really senseless murder of for like super rad people, 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.399 you know, like how could this happen? So you have 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.439 to make sense of it somehow, And in order to 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.680 do that with a gag order and no information coming out, 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.159 the only thing that you can do is get on 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.360 the internet and talk to other people who are also 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.119 trying to figure out what happened and I think that 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.280 is cathartic. The problem with it is is imagine being 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.800 Dylan or Bethany and having all these rumors come out 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.399 about you, like you're involved somehow or you were in 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.080 some sort of drug ring or human trafficking. I mean, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.159 the gamut has run wild on these two girls, and 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.120 it's really tragic because they are listed as victims. They 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.040 are listed as victims, and you don't victim shame people. 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.080 And I feel that's what's been done to Dylan and Bethany. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.399 And it was happening to just Dylan because she's mentioned 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.360 a lot in the PCA, But now that Bethany has 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.520 potentially exculpatory information and she just got a subpoena in 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:16.360 the state of Nevada to come testify at the prelim hearing, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:18.119 which has been squashed by the way they're going to 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.320 come to Nevada and interview her instead. Now all the 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:25.280 attentions on Bethany because she potentially has exculpatory information, and 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.480 it's like, what does she know that's going to help Brian, 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.200 you know what I mean, Like people are already starting 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.280 to point fingers at her and it breaks my heart 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.879 for them. And so that side of things I find 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.600 quite disgusting, quite disgusting, and I have no qualms in 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.280 telling people how disgusting I think they are. 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.400 Another aspect to it is time. When the incident happens 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.920 and there's an amount of time that lapses before the police 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.520 arrest somebody, I think that it triggers something in people. 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.320 So this incident happened November thirteenth. It was a high 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.760 profile murder case where four innocent college students in a 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.720 small town were killed. Was on all the major news. 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.240 Nobody knew. I think people get triggered, like, what is 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.760 taking the police so long? Why can't they solve this? 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.359 I know, I'm going to jump online and I'm going 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.000 to try and figure this out myself. So there's that 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.720 time element to it. I think it took six weeks 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.960 before they arrested Brian. So when you have this gap 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.919 and people think police aren't doing their job, I believe 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.080 some of the parents are coming out saying the police 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.399 aren't being forthcoming. I think that adds to it and 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.920 gives people this sense of hey, let's go online. I mean, 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.000 if you arrest somebody within forty eight seventy two hours, 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.000 there's no time for the public to go out there 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.400 and make these wild accusations, or for psychics to get 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.960 involved in you know, try and figure out anytime a 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.680 psychic's involved, you know something's not right. Don't listen to psychics. 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.520 So I think that was part of this very high 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:49.359