Speaker 1: The medic house to brutally stabbing four University of Idaho
Speaker 1: students to death.
Speaker 2: Appears in court.
Speaker 3: Coberger is accused of murdering University of Idaho students Kailee Gonzalvez,
Speaker 3: Madison Mogan, Zena Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.
Speaker 4: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios
Speaker 4: and iHeartRadio, episode four cracks in the narrative, I'm Courtney Armstrong,
Speaker 4: a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 4: and Connor Powell. After being arrested in Pennsylvania, an extradited
Speaker 4: twenty eight year old Brian Coberger is in prison awaiting
Speaker 4: trial for the murders of four University of Idaho students.
Speaker 4: Six months after police say the former PhD criminology student
Speaker 4: committed the brutal murders. Coberger appeared in an Idaho courtroom.
Speaker 4: The families of several of the victims watched the arraignment
Speaker 4: hearing from the gallery. After a brief glance toward the families,
Speaker 4: Coburger kept his head and eyes looking forward.
Speaker 3: Day.
Speaker 5: We are now on record in a state of Idaho
Speaker 5: versus banger with.
Speaker 4: His feet shackled and wearing an orange prison outfit. Coburger
Speaker 4: listened as the judge read the charges against him and
Speaker 4: explained that a conviction carried a penalty of life in
Speaker 4: prison or death.
Speaker 5: Miss Taylor as mister Coberger prepared to plead to these charges.
Speaker 4: When the judge asked Coburger's attorney if he was ready
Speaker 4: to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty, Attorney
Speaker 4: Ann Taylor declined. The judge then entered a plea on
Speaker 4: behalf of Brian Coburger.
Speaker 5: Because Coberger is standing silent, I'm going to answer that
Speaker 5: guilty police each charge.
Speaker 4: The judge then set a trial date for October second.
Speaker 6: Brian was very shocked by his arrest.
Speaker 4: While investigators believe they have their man, the case against
Speaker 4: Brian Cobeger is far from airtight.
Speaker 6: Eager to be exonerated was the language he used as
Speaker 6: he was asserting innocence.
Speaker 4: It's important to note that Brian Cobeger has not been
Speaker 4: found guilty of any crimes. Monroe County public defender Jason
Speaker 4: Lebar represented Coburger in Pennsylvania after his arrest. Lebar is
Speaker 4: no longer working for Coburger, but has been a regular
Speaker 4: on TV and in the media, pushing back on the
Speaker 4: official police narrative.
Speaker 6: It's a strong circumstantial case, but the evidence, when it
Speaker 6: is viewed individually, you can attack that evidence as a
Speaker 6: defense attorney.
Speaker 4: Here's Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 7: So at this point, officials are in the very early
Speaker 7: stages of laying out their case against the alleged killer,
Speaker 7: Brian Coburger.
Speaker 8: Yeah, all that's been released is this nineteen page probable
Speaker 8: cause AFFIDAVID. A probable cause affidavid is a summary of
Speaker 8: the evidence and circumstances of the arrest. It's usually written
Speaker 8: by the arresting officer and given to a judge for
Speaker 8: a review.
Speaker 7: And within these nineteen pages we learned a lot about
Speaker 7: the night of the massacre and how police zeroed in
Speaker 7: on Coburger specifically.
Speaker 8: A lot of the evidence at this stage is merely circumstantial. Now,
Speaker 8: for listeners who don't know or need a reminder, circumstantial
Speaker 8: evidence is evidence of facts that the court can draw
Speaker 8: conclusions from. So in this case, the fact that we
Speaker 8: know Coburger's cell phone pinged off of towers near the
Speaker 8: scene of the crime points to the idea that he
Speaker 8: may have been around the area when these murders were committed,
Speaker 8: and when you put all of that together, it paints
Speaker 8: a pretty damning picture, but it's not direct evidence like
Speaker 8: DNA or being in possession of the murder weapon. We
Speaker 8: need to remember that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty,
Speaker 8: and as Coburger's first attorney pointed out, the best way
Speaker 8: for any defense to attack the prosecution is to remind
Speaker 8: the jury that everything the prosecution has is circumstantial, because
Speaker 8: at the end of the day, all the defense needs
Speaker 8: to do is find one jury member who has doubts
Speaker 8: about the case.
Speaker 7: And it's also important to note that likely investigators have
Speaker 7: more evidence than their sharing at this point. In the
Speaker 7: immediate aftermath of the brutal murders, Moscow police said the
Speaker 7: two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk, were home
Speaker 7: during the murders, but they did not wake up until
Speaker 7: later in the morning. That information was part of every
Speaker 7: timeline until December twentieth, when Moscow pdeve removed it. Ten
Speaker 7: days later, when Brian Coberger was arrested, police stated in
Speaker 7: the probable cause Affidavid that Dylan was not only awake,
Speaker 7: but had seen the attacker.
Speaker 3: This time, she saw a dark figure standing there in
Speaker 3: black clothing, wearing a mask that covered that person's mouth.
Speaker 3: She remembered that person being about five foot ten, not
Speaker 3: very muscular, but with an athletic build. She also remembered
Speaker 3: seeing bushy eyebrows.
Speaker 4: Here again, Jeff and Stephanie.
Speaker 8: Regardless of what Dylan may or may not have seen,
Speaker 8: she and Bethany are both victims and all this. They
Speaker 8: lived through a serious trauma, They lost their friends, and
Speaker 8: have been skewered by the media.
Speaker 4: It's just not right.
Speaker 7: The prosecution may be sympathetic to that, but they also
Speaker 7: have a case to close, and Dylan is the big
Speaker 7: star witness, and the question is, though, is sheer reliable.
Speaker 3: One terrified she remained frozen in place as the suspect
Speaker 3: walked past her and left out the sliding glass door
Speaker 3: behind her.
Speaker 8: There are some things we know based on the probable
Speaker 8: cause effidavit. We know that Dylan was quote unquote frozen
Speaker 8: in fear, that she heard some sort of cries from
Speaker 8: her roommates, and she saw a masked man who was
Speaker 8: slender but not muscular, with bushy eyebrows.
Speaker 7: Dylan's description definitely offers something, but again, it doesn't really
Speaker 7: link Brian Coberger to the murder, not very muscular, having
Speaker 7: bushy eyebrows that could describe a lot of people. She
Speaker 7: also made no mention of skin color or hair color.
Speaker 8: While at first the information dell And provided seemed to
Speaker 8: point the finger at Coburger, upon closer look at actually
Speaker 8: might be more helpful for the defense because this vague
Speaker 8: description could cause reasonable doubt amongst dury members.
Speaker 7: Detectives announced that they are interested in talking to the
Speaker 7: person or people in a white twenty eleven to twenty
Speaker 7: thirteen Hondai Elektra.
Speaker 4: The first piece of evidence that appears to connect Brian
Speaker 4: Koberger to the crime is his white Hondai Alantra.
Speaker 8: It may be a big break in the case.
Speaker 7: A grainy image of a speeding car that could be
Speaker 7: the white Hondai Alantra police are looking for.
Speaker 4: According to the probable Cause Affidavid, multiple security cameras caught
Speaker 4: a white Alantra driving past the home on King Road
Speaker 4: within minutes around the murders. Coburger's first defense attorney, Jason
Speaker 4: Lebar points out that white Olanchas are common cars and
Speaker 4: Coburger is just one of many owners of the four
Speaker 4: door Sedan.
Speaker 6: The white A Lantra can't be determined to be his
Speaker 6: white Alantra. I mean, there's circumstantial evidence indicating that it
Speaker 6: could potentially be his white A Launcher, but there's certainly
Speaker 6: not direct evidence.
Speaker 4: Again, Jeff and Stephanie.
Speaker 8: We know that within days of the murders, police told
Speaker 8: the wider community to be on the lookout for a
Speaker 8: white Hyundai Elantra.
Speaker 7: As a result, the officer at WSU found this exact
Speaker 7: type of car registered to Brian Coburger.
Speaker 8: Police also checked his records and noted that Coburger had
Speaker 8: changed his registration from Pennsylvania to Washington State on November eighteenth,
Speaker 8: which was just days after the murder.
Speaker 6: They don't have direct evidence that he's driving the white Alantra.
Speaker 8: Here's the problem. Police haven't provided any evidence that Coburger
Speaker 8: was actually driving the car speeding past the house on
Speaker 8: King Road as of this moment. There's no highway or
Speaker 8: red light camera photos, nothing.
Speaker 4: That we know of.
Speaker 7: And keep in mind, at this point we may not
Speaker 7: have all the information that the police does.
Speaker 8: That's true, and we also don't know what they found
Speaker 8: in the car. According to experts we talked to, if
Speaker 8: this was Coburger's car and he really did kill four
Speaker 8: people and then get in and drive away, it's likely that,
Speaker 8: no matter how well he scrubbed and cleaned, there would
Speaker 8: be some sort of DNA evidence in that car from
Speaker 8: the night in question.
Speaker 7: And I think it's worth noting that DNA can take
Speaker 7: weeks to process, and at the time of his arrest,
Speaker 7: investigators didn't have access to his car.
Speaker 4: However, now weeks later they do. A key part of
Speaker 4: the prosecution of Brian Coburger will be putting him at
Speaker 4: the scene of the crime. Police also need to place
Speaker 4: Brian Coberger behind the wheel of the suspected vehicle in
Speaker 4: the probable cause AFFIDAVID Investigators rely on historical cell side
Speaker 4: data to make this connection. Here again Jeff and Stephanie.
Speaker 7: So in an effort to track Coburger, police really had
Speaker 7: to rely on cell phone towers and to see where
Speaker 7: Coburger's cell phone was pinging from A.
Speaker 8: Cell phone pang is the act of determining the estimated
Speaker 8: current location of a cell phone. This may be accomplished
Speaker 8: via GPS data or by using cell phone tower triangulation, which,
Speaker 8: as we know in this case, is what they used.
Speaker 7: Police were able to get a search warrant for Coburger's
Speaker 7: cell phone records because he had been pulled over for
Speaker 7: a traffic violation prior and he gave police his cell
Speaker 7: phone number. Upon reviewing the records, police determined that Coburger's
Speaker 7: phone was connecting to towers in Moscow around that time,
Speaker 7: and that his movements were very similar to what the
Speaker 7: alleged killer was doing at that time.
Speaker 8: And so I think what we surmise from this is
Speaker 8: that we are all glued to our phones. I'm here's
Speaker 8: my in my hand right now. So it stands to
Speaker 8: reason that of Coburger was in the car that night,
Speaker 8: so was his phone. However, it should be noted that
Speaker 8: locating a mobile phone based on a single Stete cell
Speaker 8: phone tower places the phone in a broad area, but
Speaker 8: it cannot actually pinpoint the exact location. So it's not
Speaker 8: like this is one hundred percent reliable science.
Speaker 4: Cell Phones are intimate devices. Their data knows a lot
Speaker 4: about us. If Coburger's phone was in his car, then
Speaker 4: he was likely in his car. Once police began to
Speaker 4: hone in on Brian Coburger, they began looking at his
Speaker 4: movements around the time of the murders. He had given
Speaker 4: his cell phone number to a deputy during a previous
Speaker 4: traffic stop, so police got a search warrant for his
Speaker 4: cell phone records. A police review determined Coburger's phone was
Speaker 4: connecting to towers in the Moscow area and were similar
Speaker 4: to the movements of the suspected white Atlantra investigators believed
Speaker 4: was the murder vehicle. But cell phone pings on a
Speaker 4: tower are not precise GPS location coordinates.
Speaker 6: If it was GPS location cordinates, you're talking down to
Speaker 6: a meter as to where Brian Coburger was at the
Speaker 6: time of these crimes, Whereas a cell phone tower ping
Speaker 6: is that you're within a radius of that tower up
Speaker 6: to twenty miles. And obviously mister Coburger lived within ten
Speaker 6: miles of the University of Idaho where these crimes were committed,
Speaker 6: so certainly he could ping at any moment in time
Speaker 6: near the actual crime.
Speaker 7: The night of the murders, Coburger's phone was tracked heading
Speaker 7: to Moscow before the attack, but his phone was off
Speaker 7: from two forty seven am to four forty eight AM.
Speaker 8: So what you're saying is that this looks like what
Speaker 8: he's trying to conceal his location for these approximately two hours.
Speaker 7: Coburger's former attorney said, just because Coburger's phone pings at
Speaker 7: a tower doesn't mean much considering the short distance between Pullman, Washington,
Speaker 7: where Coburger lived, and Moscow, where the victims were murdered.
Speaker 8: Right because the phone data places him near the scene
Speaker 8: of the crime, but not actually at the scene of
Speaker 8: the crime. Now, his cars built in computer may be
Speaker 8: a different story and provide a lot of data, but
Speaker 8: so far it has not been presented as evidence.
Speaker 4: When investigators began combing through the crime scene, they found
Speaker 4: a tan leather knife sheath underneath Madison's body and the comforter.
Speaker 4: According to the probable cause Affidavid police found a single
Speaker 4: mail source DNA on the button of that knife sheath.
Speaker 4: Later testing identified that DNA as Brian Coburger's.
Speaker 8: On the face of it, this DNA link on the
Speaker 8: knife sheath is very strong evidence against Coburger, but upon
Speaker 8: closer inspection, the existence of DNA on the sheaf doesn't
Speaker 8: actually mean Coburger was there the knight of the murders.
Speaker 8: All it really means is that at some point he
Speaker 8: came into contact with the knife sheath.
Speaker 7: And granted this all sounds very suspicious, but again just
Speaker 7: throwing it out there as an alternate theory. Maybe somebody
Speaker 7: is trying to frame Coburger and that the real killer
Speaker 7: placed the knife sheath where the victims were murdered.
Speaker 8: That is certainly an argument that defense could and probably
Speaker 8: will make without a murder weapon. This evidence is circumstantial.
Speaker 8: Remember this, for Gill is beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 7: It does seem like there's a lot of evidence mounting
Speaker 7: against Coburger. There are also plenty of places, though, to
Speaker 7: raise reasonable doubt.
Speaker 4: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 4: a moment. If Brian Coberger's innocent as he claims, are
Speaker 4: there any alternative theories that could explain the murders Jeff
Speaker 4: and Stephanie.
Speaker 8: Like so many murder investigations, the police looked into many
Speaker 8: different possibilities. In the immediate aftermath of the crimes. The
Speaker 8: first suspect was Kaylee's ex boyfriend, a young man named Jack.
Speaker 8: The para dated for about five years and had recently
Speaker 8: broken up, but they were still in communication the night
Speaker 8: of the murders. Between two twenty six and two forty
Speaker 8: four am, Kaylee called Jack six times. Then between two
Speaker 8: forty four and two fifty two am, Madison, who was
Speaker 8: presumably with Kaylee, called him three times. Finally, at two
Speaker 8: fifty two am, Kaylee called him one more time, all
Speaker 8: to no avail.
Speaker 7: This was all so tragic for Jack, but again it's
Speaker 7: very common to look at the people closest to the
Speaker 7: victims first when you're starting an investigation. But he was
Speaker 7: ultimately cleared very quickly.
Speaker 8: So after the ex boyfriend, we heard about a supposed stalker.
Speaker 8: A local business owner went to the press and said
Speaker 8: that about three weeks before the murders, they overheard Madison
Speaker 8: and Kaylee voicing concerns about Kaylee being stocked. She said
Speaker 8: she would beg friends to walk closely behind her at
Speaker 8: all times after becoming terrified of someone who would follow
Speaker 8: her around town. Could this mystery stocker also be the killer?
Speaker 7: And that story was also backed up by the footage
Speaker 7: from this food truck. In this video, if you've seen it,
Speaker 7: it appeared that there was this gentleman, a young guy
Speaker 7: kind of following Kaylee and Madison. And again, depending upon
Speaker 7: how you look at this footage, you could interpret this
Speaker 7: person as looking creepy or suspicious because he was wearing
Speaker 7: a hood. It's a snippet of a video. So is
Speaker 7: everyone just grasping at straws or is this actual real evidence.
Speaker 8: Well staph. After this food truck guy, we heard about
Speaker 8: Xana's Doordashulibry and whether or not the driver might have
Speaker 8: seen something or somehow been involved.
Speaker 7: And there were also all of those rumors about a
Speaker 7: love triangle gone wrong and scorned roommates seeking revenge. It
Speaker 7: all was getting extremely nuts at this point. It seems
Speaker 7: as though social media at least was targeting a lot
Speaker 7: of people without any information.
Speaker 8: And it's safe to assume that investigators checked out all
Speaker 8: these possibilities and people and they were all cleared or
Speaker 8: never even considered suspects in the first place. But unfortunately,
Speaker 8: with a case like this, it doesn't really mean much
Speaker 8: for these innocent men and women because they were not
Speaker 8: free from online abuse and the court of public opinion.
Speaker 4: Within hours of the brutal murders, local and national media
Speaker 4: descended on the once relatively unknown town of Moscow and
Speaker 4: began to cover the shocking killings. At nearly the same time,
Speaker 4: an invisible army of internet sleuths and trolls began to
Speaker 4: speculate on the investigation from Afar. Dozens of YouTube, TikTok, Facebook,
Speaker 4: and Reddit groups emerged overnight to discuss, dissect, and analyze
Speaker 4: all aspects of the case.
Speaker 1: People are making things up because they want answers and
Speaker 1: because the gag order. People are making things up for
Speaker 1: content too, So like on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube,
Speaker 1: people are just making shut up and the running with
Speaker 1: it like it was a drug house and you know
Speaker 1: this was a drug deal gone bad and the door
Speaker 1: dash driver was secretly delivering cocaine. You know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: people are just making shut up.
Speaker 4: Despite the massive amount of public interest, for weeks, police
Speaker 4: provided few details about the gruesome murders, and the judge
Speaker 4: in Idaho also issued a gag order preventing anyone involved
Speaker 4: from speaking publicly. The Internet often recklessly jumped in to
Speaker 4: fill the void. The baseless speculation and misinformation came with
Speaker 4: grim consequences for real innocent people.
Speaker 1: Just no, I'm not the only one who suspect Rebecca's.
Speaker 4: Go a TikTok psychic accused Rebecca Schofield, an associate professor
Speaker 4: at the University, of being in a lover's triangle and
Speaker 4: orchestrating the murders.
Speaker 5: If anyone would have been considered a person of interest.
Speaker 4: And would have had a motive, it would have been Jack.
Speaker 4: At the same time, a YouTuber accused Kaylee's ex boyfriend,
Speaker 4: Jack Decor of the killings, suggesting their recent breakup after
Speaker 4: five years of dating as a cause for the crime.
Speaker 1: When you talk about like the reddit, because there's so
Speaker 1: many subreddits dedicated to this case. There's Idaho four, There's
Speaker 1: Moscow Murders, there's you know, Brian Coberger Moscow murders. There's
Speaker 1: so many different subreddits dedicated to this case that have,
Speaker 1: i mean hundreds of thousands of posts discussing everything under
Speaker 1: the sun. And because there's no real moderation, you know,
Speaker 1: on those those subreddits, there's all kinds of speculation.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The moderation on some of the subreddits could use little work.
Speaker 1: I mean, people are posting, you know, make they're making
Speaker 1: things up.
Speaker 4: Deanna Thompson is the co host, along with John Green,
Speaker 4: of the upcoming iHeart Kat Studios podcast True Crimes with
Speaker 4: John and Deanna. In twenty ten, they led the online
Speaker 4: effort to identify and catch the international serial killer Luca
Speaker 4: Magnata That case was later turned into the popular Netflix
Speaker 4: documentary Don't Fuck with Cats. Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 8: John Green and Deana Thompson aren't your typical online slows.
Speaker 8: They became famous for their work helping catch a killer online.
Speaker 8: It was all showcased in Netflix's Don't f with Cats
Speaker 8: in twenty nineteen. Here at Katie Studios, we're actually working
Speaker 8: with them on a new podcast called True Crimes, which
Speaker 8: will be out later this year.
Speaker 7: And if you haven't seen their documentary, please do. It's
Speaker 7: astounding the work that they do. They're the perfect example
Speaker 7: of people who really conduct ethical, responsible investigations and turn
Speaker 7: over any relevant information to the police. It's impressive and
Speaker 7: it's really effective.
Speaker 4: Here's Deanna Thompson aka Body Movin, followed by John Green.
Speaker 1: I do think that people want to make sense of
Speaker 1: a really senseless murder of for like super rad people,
Speaker 1: you know, like how could this happen? So you have
Speaker 1: to make sense of it somehow, And in order to
Speaker 1: do that with a gag order and no information coming out,
Speaker 1: the only thing that you can do is get on
Speaker 1: the internet and talk to other people who are also
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what happened and I think that
Speaker 1: is cathartic. The problem with it is is imagine being
Speaker 1: Dylan or Bethany and having all these rumors come out
Speaker 1: about you, like you're involved somehow or you were in
Speaker 1: some sort of drug ring or human trafficking. I mean,
Speaker 1: the gamut has run wild on these two girls, and
Speaker 1: it's really tragic because they are listed as victims. They
Speaker 1: are listed as victims, and you don't victim shame people.
Speaker 1: And I feel that's what's been done to Dylan and Bethany.
Speaker 1: And it was happening to just Dylan because she's mentioned
Speaker 1: a lot in the PCA, But now that Bethany has
Speaker 1: potentially exculpatory information and she just got a subpoena in
Speaker 1: the state of Nevada to come testify at the prelim hearing,
Speaker 1: which has been squashed by the way they're going to
Speaker 1: come to Nevada and interview her instead. Now all the
Speaker 1: attentions on Bethany because she potentially has exculpatory information, and
Speaker 1: it's like, what does she know that's going to help Brian,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like people are already starting
Speaker 1: to point fingers at her and it breaks my heart
Speaker 1: for them. And so that side of things I find
Speaker 1: quite disgusting, quite disgusting, and I have no qualms in
Speaker 1: telling people how disgusting I think they are.
Speaker 9: Another aspect to it is time. When the incident happens
Speaker 9: and there's an amount of time that lapses before the police
Speaker 9: arrest somebody, I think that it triggers something in people.
Speaker 9: So this incident happened November thirteenth. It was a high
Speaker 9: profile murder case where four innocent college students in a
Speaker 9: small town were killed. Was on all the major news.
Speaker 9: Nobody knew. I think people get triggered, like, what is
Speaker 9: taking the police so long? Why can't they solve this?
Speaker 9: I know, I'm going to jump online and I'm going
Speaker 9: to try and figure this out myself. So there's that
Speaker 9: time element to it. I think it took six weeks
Speaker 9: before they arrested Brian. So when you have this gap
Speaker 9: and people think police aren't doing their job, I believe
Speaker 9: some of the parents are coming out saying the police
Speaker 9: aren't being forthcoming. I think that adds to it and
Speaker 9: gives people this sense of hey, let's go online. I mean,
Speaker 9: if you arrest somebody within forty eight seventy two hours,
Speaker 9: there's no time for the public to go out there
Speaker 9: and make these wild accusations, or for psychics to get
Speaker 9: involved in you know, try and figure out anytime a
Speaker 9: psychic's involved, you know something's not right. Don't listen to psychics.
Speaker 9: So I think that was part of this very high
Speaker 9: profile case.
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, let's talk about how there's a way to
Speaker 8: do it ethically, and that's what you guys do, and
Speaker 8: then there's ways with unethically, which is maybe what we're seeing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the things, you know, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's an ethical thing or not, but
Speaker 1: one of the things that we have done in the
Speaker 1: past is we don't really talk about the cases that
Speaker 1: we're working on. Ever. We don't post about them.
Speaker 4: We don't ask the public for help.
Speaker 1: We don't and if we do, it's very sneaky, you know,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't give anything away. We don't make videos
Speaker 1: about them, we don't do anything. And it's specifically because
Speaker 1: we don't want the suspect to know that we're looking
Speaker 1: at them. Number one, because sometimes I feel like there's
Speaker 1: a new case right now and I feel like me
Speaker 1: even acknowledging that I know about it gives that the
Speaker 1: person that did it like a little bit of a rush,
Speaker 1: like Ooh, body Movement's looking at me, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like Ooh, I put this cat in a
Speaker 1: blunder and maybe i'll i'll, you know, maybe body movement
Speaker 1: and John Green will look at my case, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to give them any attention. So
Speaker 1: I don't want the suspect to know that I have
Speaker 1: the specific evidence I eat puma, which we talk about
Speaker 1: a lot in the podcast. I don't want the suspect
Speaker 1: to even know that him and I are working on it,
Speaker 1: because I think that will give them some sort of
Speaker 1: ego boost that these Netflix people are looking at me,
Speaker 1: you know, get them happy if there is Like in
Speaker 1: the cases that John and I typically work on, the
Speaker 1: victim is an animal, right, so there's no like human
Speaker 1: being that I have to like be careful with, like
Speaker 1: as far as a victim is concerned. But if you
Speaker 1: are talking about something like Idaho or there are actual
Speaker 1: humans that are victims and family that is suffering, I
Speaker 1: just think it's incredibly insensitive to get on national television
Speaker 1: and talk about rumors that you've heard where Ethan was
Speaker 1: sliced from ankle to groin.
Speaker 9: Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I just think that's it's a rumor. I just think
Speaker 1: it's incredibly insensitive. His parents, his brother, their and sister.
Speaker 1: They have to see that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And while they know what happened, I'm sure by now
Speaker 1: they know what happened to him. Do we really need
Speaker 1: to know what happened to him right now before court?
Speaker 1: Do we need to know that? Is it important that
Speaker 1: the public know that you heard a rumor that Ethan
Speaker 1: was slashed from ankle to groin? And I just think
Speaker 1: it's insensitive and I would never do that.
Speaker 9: Dan and I at the core of it, are true
Speaker 9: crime fans, just like people listening to this podcast. And
Speaker 9: as a true crime fan, you've watched enough documentaries or
Speaker 9: series involving detectives or investigations, you always hear the same thing.
Speaker 9: It's an ongoing investigation, no comment, and so you need
Speaker 9: to learn to keep a tight lip, not say anything,
Speaker 9: don't expose anything that you have or know. You know, again,
Speaker 9: we're just armchair detectives, are not experts or anything. Who
Speaker 9: are we to go online and making a statement or
Speaker 9: accusation or accuse somebody, You know, it's not our place.
Speaker 9: We try to collect the evidence, put it in a
Speaker 9: format that's easily understandable. Contact the local law enforcement or
Speaker 9: wherever has jurisdiction. Talk to somebody there, say hey, we'd
Speaker 9: like to email you something. Let them handle it from there.
Speaker 4: Let's stop here for another break. In twenty twenty two,
Speaker 4: investigators requested social media videos and photos to help zero
Speaker 4: in on the movements of Gabby Patito before and after
Speaker 4: she disappeared. Here is Adam Wandit, a digital forensic expert
Speaker 4: and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He
Speaker 4: points out that her case isn't really one of online's
Speaker 4: slews breaking the case open, but more an example of
Speaker 4: the widespread availability of videos aiding law enforcement.
Speaker 2: In the Gabby Potito case, the evidence that led to
Speaker 2: the recovery of Gabby Potito's body was actually evidence that
Speaker 2: was on a video camera of somebody who was driving
Speaker 2: through the park that accidentally recorded the vehicle that was
Speaker 2: used to dump her body in the park, and only
Speaker 2: after the case, only after he recorded it, when he
Speaker 2: learned on social media that there was a potential body
Speaker 2: or murder in that park, he went through his own evidence,
Speaker 2: found what he was looking for, posted it to YouTube,
Speaker 2: sent it to law enforcement, and in the Gabby Batito
Speaker 2: case specifically, that evidence was critical pro finding her body
Speaker 2: and bringing her killer to justice. And you know, it
Speaker 2: doesn't always happen that the public has that information, but
Speaker 2: in the Gabby Batito case they did. But that is certainly,
Speaker 2: you know, the rare exception.
Speaker 4: When Internet sleuths have inserted themselves into active cases, it
Speaker 4: hasn't always gone well. In twenty thirteen, thousands of online
Speaker 4: and amateur detectives rushed to identify the individuals they believed
Speaker 4: carried out the Boston marathon bombing. They were wrong and
Speaker 4: misidentified several innocent people. With thousands of online sleuths and
Speaker 4: commentators posting about the Idaho murders, some have stuck out.
Speaker 1: A user who goes by Papa Roger was a prolific
Speaker 1: contributor on the site with many creepy and insensitive posts.
Speaker 4: The prolific poster appear to have knowledge of the facts
Speaker 4: of the case before information was officially released. At the
Speaker 4: same time, Papa Rogers also made claims that turned out
Speaker 4: to be wrong, like suggesting that the white Alantra was
Speaker 4: a quote red herring. Many have speculated that the poster
Speaker 4: Papa Rogers was in fact Brian Coberger, Stephanie, and Jeff.
Speaker 7: Papa Rogers was a member of the University of Idaho
Speaker 7: Murders Case Discussion, which was basically a Facebook group up
Speaker 7: out of nowhere and very quickly amassed about two hundred
Speaker 7: and twenty five thousand users. That just shows the country's
Speaker 7: interest in this case. It's just one of the hundreds
Speaker 7: of online groups talking about the case real time, but
Speaker 7: of all the members, Papa Rogers he stuck out to
Speaker 7: the group because he was being very condescending and very
Speaker 7: argumentative to other online users.
Speaker 8: Other things also caused Papa Rogers to be a notable
Speaker 8: member of this group. They posted frequently with information that
Speaker 8: seemed almost too detailed. For example, one post read of
Speaker 8: the evidence released the murder weapon has been consistent as
Speaker 8: a large, fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe
Speaker 8: they found the sheath. While this time police did say
Speaker 8: they were searching for a bladed murder weapon, investigators hadn't
Speaker 8: yet said anything about the knife sheath being at the
Speaker 8: murder scene until the probable cause AFFIDAVID was released, meaning
Speaker 8: that Papa Rogers was either a very good guesser or
Speaker 8: they somehow knew something the general public did not, and.
Speaker 7: Also real time over on Readit, a very similar user
Speaker 7: named inside Looking also appeared to have a lot of
Speaker 7: detailed information that hadn't been released to the press yet.
Speaker 8: One post read speculation killer parked behind the house, approached
Speaker 8: property through treeline, entered sliding door, and left it open.
Speaker 8: Committed murders an exited sliding door, one knife according to
Speaker 8: Corner's statement. Time of murder approximately three twenty to three
Speaker 8: forty am, according to the car fleeing the scene and
Speaker 8: on camera on Highway eight approximately three forty five am.
Speaker 8: Vehicle left skid marks upon exit.
Speaker 7: The detailed post really creeped out the Reddit posters, and
Speaker 7: there was this one person I recall saying, quote, Dude,
Speaker 7: this guy is solving his own crime, psycho end quote,
Speaker 7: really implying that it's possible that the killer has now
Speaker 7: joined this group to really better understand the chatter happening
Speaker 7: around the crime. Interestingly, or coincidentally, Papa Rodgers was later
Speaker 7: kicked out of the group discussion and seemingly disappeared just
Speaker 7: before Coburger was arrested.
Speaker 4: More on that next time. For more information on the
Speaker 4: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Kat
Speaker 4: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masacre is produced by Stephanie Leidecker,
Speaker 4: Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo and me
Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music
Speaker 4: by Jared Aston. The Idaho Massacre is a production of
Speaker 4: iHeart Radio and KAT Studios. For more podcasts like this,
Speaker 4: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 4: to your favorite shows. I'm Diana.
Speaker 1: You may know as Body Movin, My Friend and I
Speaker 1: John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary Don't f
Speaker 1: with Cats. On our new podcast True Crimes with John
Speaker 1: and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills to some
Speaker 1: of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases.
Speaker 8: Please say thirty three year old bride again shot dead.
Speaker 5: Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 7: Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted attack.
Speaker 9: It appears to be an execution style of assassination.
Speaker 4: This is very active, so we have to be careful.
Speaker 1: I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
Speaker 1: in the basement.
Speaker 6: I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 9: Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one
Speaker 9: young girl going missing.
Speaker 8: If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
Speaker 8: late to.
Speaker 9: Do the right thing.
Speaker 1: This is true Crimes with John and Deanna, the production of.
Speaker 9: KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Justice is something that takes different
Speaker 9: shapes or formed