1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

6
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

7
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,279
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

8
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,080
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

9
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

10
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 4: All right, Good morning, wealthy counterpoints. Very little bit of

11
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 4: housekeeping because most of you have figured this transition out

12
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 4: by now. If you haven't, the email support at locals

13
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,879
Speaker 4: dot com is actually like, there are real people on

14
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 4: the other side of it who are tasked with answering

15
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 4: your questions.

16
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,240
Speaker 3: Yes, they will answer them.

17
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, it's not just a black hole that you're

18
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,200
Speaker 4: going to send your complaints into, So be polite because

19
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 4: it is going to go to a real person support.

20
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,120
Speaker 5: At locals dot com. If you've had any issues, make

21
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 5: sure to connect your email, check your inbox. Obviously we're

22
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,600
Speaker 5: doing the transition this week, but if you had any issues,

23
00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 5: there are real people on the end of support at

24
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 5: locals dot com and we're working right now. On Spotify connectivity,

25
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,760
Speaker 5: but that problem should be fixed soon. I appreciate you

26
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 5: guys all hanging in there with us during this little

27
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,920
Speaker 5: transition period. But we're super excited and everything has been

28
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,400
Speaker 5: going well with Breaking Points this week because Ryan's been

29
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 5: around with the Magic Tide Grow show. But welcome to Counterpoints.

30
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 5: On that note, we have a great show. We actually

31
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 5: have Gabriel Shipton coming in here and just a bit

32
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 5: Julian Assange's brother because we're going to talk about the

33
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 5: big updates in the Assage case. We're going to start

34
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 5: today with elections around the country. It's obviously an election year,

35
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,959
Speaker 5: which means primary results continue to trickle in on Tuesdays,

36
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,319
Speaker 5: some really interesting ones. Last night, we'll have updates from Israel.

37
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,319
Speaker 5: The Associated Press saga that played out yesterday with AP cameras.

38
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 6: Bill Maher was on the view for some reason.

39
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 3: And that's great. We're going to talk about that.

40
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, love that for him, love that for them.

41
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 5: A really interesting poll on generational differences on some really

42
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,680
Speaker 5: key things from gen Z and the Baby. We're going

43
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 5: to dive into all of that. We're going to talk

44
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 5: about scar Joe, the Scarlett Johansson, Open Ai debacle basically,

45
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,800
Speaker 5: and then we'll close with Gabriel, who we're excited to

46
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,240
Speaker 5: have in studio, and.

47
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 4: I'll tell my story of partying with Scarlett Johansson back

48
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 4: when I worked at the Huffington Post and used to

49
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:16,560
Speaker 4: be cool.

50
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 5: I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't

51
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,280
Speaker 5: know how off the record it was. But stay tuned

52
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 5: for this because it actually is a good story. All right,

53
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 5: But let's start with elections. A one up on the

54
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,679
Speaker 5: screen in Kentucky's fourth congressional district last night.

55
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 6: Thomas Massey.

56
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,360
Speaker 5: Let's just call him a friend of the show, because

57
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 5: I feel like there aren't many Republican congressmen that we

58
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 5: can say that about.

59
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 6: But here at the Breaking.

60
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,960
Speaker 3: Points universe from his universe and said he wants to

61
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 3: come on the show. Said, of course, come on.

62
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 5: Good We admire Thomas Massey's If we admire Thomas Massey

63
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 5: for one particular thing, it's his courage and standing up

64
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 5: against political correctness, frankly, even when it's inconvenient for a Republican.

65
00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 5: So there was some to do made about Thomas Massey

66
00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 5: in his re election bid. He cleaned up last night

67
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,679
Speaker 5: about seventy six percent of the vote. You can see

68
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,480
Speaker 5: that on the screen here from the New York Times

69
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 5: as of right now with ninety five percent of the votes.

70
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 6: And rent I looked it up.

71
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 5: He got sixty five percent of the vote back in

72
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, so he actually did better better this

73
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,800
Speaker 5: go around, despite as you've reported, APAC targeting members of Congress,

74
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 5: including him, because he's pushed back on some of the

75
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,840
Speaker 5: very broad language and bills that have been sort of

76
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 5: symbolic bills, ones that you know, people on both sides

77
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,240
Speaker 5: have said are important symbolic bills on both sides of

78
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 5: these bills, but about Israel and anti Zionism versus anti Semitism.

79
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 5: And Massy's been one of the few Republican voices of reason.

80
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 4: And you can tell how much they must hate Thomas

81
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 4: Massey if they're willing to spend money to support a

82
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 4: Scotch Irish guy ThEC Guinness down there. It was probably

83
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 4: pretty hard to find a candidate in Kentucky who's not.

84
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 6: Scotchi, right, Yeah, that would be a real challenge.

85
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, But so yeah, Thomas Massey with standing nowhere near

86
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 4: the amount of a pack money that they're spending against

87
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 4: squad members and squad aligned members. But you know, well

88
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 4: into the six figures, like, yeah, nothing nothing to sneeze.

89
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,520
Speaker 6: At a lower Republican primary, right, and you.

90
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 3: Know one extraordinarily convincingly.

91
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 4: So that should that should send a message in kind

92
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 4: of Trump districts that you know, a couple hundred thousand

93
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,840
Speaker 4: dollars or million dollars of a PAC money is not

94
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 4: going to knock you off.

95
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,839
Speaker 5: Take us up to Portlandia, Bryan, Really, to a very

96
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 5: could be a port sketch this election.

97
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,479
Speaker 4: A couple of million dollars can knock you off in Portland, Yes,

98
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 4: all right, so we can put put this element up.

99
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,159
Speaker 4: So we've been following this for the last couple of weeks,

100
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,719
Speaker 4: and the climax here, Maxine Dexter, the APAC backed candidate

101
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 4: in Portland's race, ends ended up beating Soushila Jaya Paul

102
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 4: and Eddie Morales in kind of a three way race

103
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 4: in a fairly convincing fashion. They're still counting the votes's

104
00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,600
Speaker 4: mail in ballots, but the last I checked was over

105
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 4: fifty percent, almost beating Giapaul by two to one. Giapaul

106
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,840
Speaker 4: was considered, if you're just checking in on this race now,

107
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,919
Speaker 4: to be the front runner in this race a month ago,

108
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,720
Speaker 4: and then a month ago, millions of dollars of dark

109
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 4: money started being spent through two superpacks, one called three

110
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 4: fourteen Action Fund, which says it's a pro science superpack,

111
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 4: and the other one called Americans for Responsive Government or

112
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,680
Speaker 4: Voters for a Responsive Government, which a brand new super

113
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,280
Speaker 4: pac never existed before it was launched on April first,

114
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,159
Speaker 4: which meant that it doesn't didn't have to disclose its

115
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,400
Speaker 4: donors until May twentieth, it started spending. Collectively, they spent

116
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 4: millions of dollars against Giapaul and for Dexter. In the

117
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 4: entire time, Dexter was saying she had absolutely no idea

118
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 4: where this money could possibly be coming from. And I've

119
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 4: talked to people close to her, talk to people inside

120
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,920
Speaker 4: three fourteen, they all say everybody knew where.

121
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,279
Speaker 3: This money was coming from. It was APAC.

122
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 4: We then know that from FEC records that she herself,

123
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 4: I've got one hundred one thousand dollars from APACK donors,

124
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 4: but yesterday on I guess no. Two days ago, on

125
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,160
Speaker 4: May twentieth, the day before the election was held, American

126
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 4: Voters for Responsive Government was finally required to file with

127
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 4: the FEC and this was when we expected that we

128
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 4: would learn about their donors. And if you can put

129
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 4: up this element here here it is they filed an

130
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 4: FEC report. Emily, take a look at that. Look, oh,

131
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 4: you never seen anything like that.

132
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 5: No, just zero's I've never seen anything like When you

133
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 5: tweated that, I was like.

134
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 3: Cash on hands, zero this, you know, zero zero zero zero.

135
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 4: And so what they're what they're clearly saying there is

136
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 4: that whoever we got this money from would be too

137
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 4: toxic even with one day before the race to disclose publicly.

138
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 6: Now explain to people, well, how they get away with that?

139
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, So what they're basically going to do is they're

140
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 4: going to file an amended return with the FEC, which

141
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,680
Speaker 4: will disclose who their donors are and say, whoops, you know,

142
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 4: who could have seen how did this happens? We turned

143
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 4: in the wrong paper, this this one was onto the couch.

144
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 3: This is our fault.

145
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 4: FEC will then find them and they will then peel

146
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 4: off from their stack of bills and the FVC the

147
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 4: money and even you know, probably throw a little tip

148
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 4: at the regulator while they're at it, because they can,

149
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 4: because who cares.

150
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,360
Speaker 6: It's not criminal, right, it's.

151
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 3: Not falsifying business records, yes.

152
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 6: Well, and for campaign related purposes.

153
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 4: Can you write now, if there's a porn star involved somewhere,

154
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 4: then then maybe the New York Attorney General will find

155
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 4: a way to have some some type of jurisdiction over that.

156
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh so Yeah, basically they're just going to pay the.

157
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,600
Speaker 4: Fine and not tell you, you know, where the money

158
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,520
Speaker 4: came from until after the election.

159
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 5: I don't think you can even just be clear enough

160
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,160
Speaker 5: about what you've reported here over the last couple of

161
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 5: weeks when you have.

162
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 6: You have somebody who is this was a really close race.

163
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 5: It was like tightly packed even you know, I'm reading

164
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 5: organ media and from organ public broadcasts. You know, like

165
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 5: the policy differences were not you know, obvious between any.

166
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 3: Of these progressive Democrats, Right, Dexter.

167
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 6: Announced later than everyone else. Uh.

168
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 5: It just is crazy how the money swept in. It

169
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 5: doesn't always happen this way, but when it does, it's

170
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 5: so obvious, it's so clear exactly what happened.

171
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 6: Uh, and that's what happened here.

172
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 7: Yeah.

173
00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,080
Speaker 4: And what APAC discovered in a couple of other races

174
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 4: Summer Leaves in particular, was that because a pack is

175
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 4: primarily funded not exclusively but primarily funded by Republicans who

176
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 4: also give money to Republicans Trump McCarthy whoever, that it's

177
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 4: not necessarily the pro Israel money that hurts them in

178
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,200
Speaker 4: the Democratic primary among kind of normy Democratic voters, although

179
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,079
Speaker 4: I think it is in place like Portland right now

180
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 4: that is a problem given what Israel is doing in Gaza.

181
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,080
Speaker 4: But in general, what Summer Elite hit her opponent for

182
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 4: was not taking pro Israel money, with not taking a

183
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 4: pac money, but was for.

184
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 3: Taking Mega money.

185
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it fits into the hyper polarized kind of

186
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,959
Speaker 4: partisan nature, because it's a democratic primary, Like the people

187
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 4: voting in Democratic primaries are hardcore Democrats.

188
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, speaking of which, this is a

189
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 5: really deep blue district. So if you're wondering why this

190
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 5: particular primary is a big deal, it's because that's basically

191
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,839
Speaker 5: who's won the general election. This is the race to

192
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 5: replace Earl blumen Hour in that district.

193
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 4: So you could imagine that if it were reversed and

194
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 4: let's say George Soros and a bunch of other like

195
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,839
Speaker 4: let's say Harvey Weinstein's not in jail and they are

196
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 4: supporting a super pack, that is then playing in Republican primaries,

197
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 4: spending millions of dollars against one Republican to pick up

198
00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 4: another one. Yeah, you would imagine the other Republican be like,

199
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 4: this is just a bunch of Democrat money.

200
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Hollywood money.

201
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Yes, it's crazy, It's absolutely crazy. And on

202
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 5: that note, let's move over to California's twentieth district.

203
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 6: That's Kevin McCarthy's was an interesting one.

204
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 5: Yes, while we're doing congressional districts, our last stop on

205
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,880
Speaker 5: this tour of American elections last night would be a

206
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,320
Speaker 5: California's twentieth district, where there's a huge spending advantage to

207
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,359
Speaker 5: Vince Fong, who was kind of handpicked.

208
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 6: By Kevin McCarthy.

209
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 5: People refer to him as Kevin McCarthy protege to take

210
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 5: that seat in California's Central Valley.

211
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,680
Speaker 6: It's a pretty interesting, heavily agricultural.

212
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,560
Speaker 3: District, Bakersfield, Bakersfield rusty.

213
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

214
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,840
Speaker 5: And so he won handily sixty percent of the vote.

215
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,319
Speaker 5: He was endorsed by Donald Trump. People say there's really

216
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 5: no daylight between Kevin McCarthy and him on most main issues.

217
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 6: But what's interesting is his opponent.

218
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 5: I think he's a sheriff and also a long time

219
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 5: fixture in the area. He interestingly enough, was endorsed by

220
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 5: Trump like figures, so Rick Gronell who served in the

221
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 5: Trump administration. But Fong had McCarthy's backing. He had all

222
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 5: the money and he had Trump's backing. So that's where

223
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,040
Speaker 5: that ended up in California Central Valley in the twentieth I.

224
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 4: Would think in that district, if you've got McCarthy and

225
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 4: Trump else not going to push you over the time.

226
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 6: It's not going to be Rick Garnell.

227
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 5: But all this is say, yeah, it's not like he

228
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,080
Speaker 5: was some crazy, you know, fringe figure.

229
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 6: He did bring other.

230
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 3: You got over thirty percent, yeah, yeah.

231
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is impressive enough for a primary. But Ryan,

232
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 5: we've got to get back to Portland. We've got to

233
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,080
Speaker 5: get back to Portland because that DA race.

234
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the other key race in Portland, and because

235
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,959
Speaker 4: it's a Democratic primary. This is basically it pitted the

236
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,840
Speaker 4: incumbent progressive district attorney named Mike Schmidt, not to be

237
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,240
Speaker 4: confused with the Hall of Fame Third Basement for the

238
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 4: Philadelphia Phillies.

239
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,840
Speaker 5: Well, do you know that it's always sunny in Philadelphia

240
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:55,959
Speaker 5: a bit about Mike Schmidt.

241
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 3: I don't think I've seen that.

242
00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 6: You don't know who Mike Schmidt is, You'll have to

243
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 6: watch it.

244
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 4: Oh, I think I have seen this. Mike Schmidt was

245
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,600
Speaker 4: my when I was a kid, was an absolute hero,

246
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 4: like worshiped, absolutely worshiped Mike Schmidt. So it's very hard

247
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,839
Speaker 4: for me to see what happened to this other Mike

248
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,680
Speaker 4: Schmidt out in Portland, Oregon.

249
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 3: We might have just ruined it for you.

250
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,079
Speaker 4: So basically, he was challenged from the right by another

251
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 4: prosecutor who was a Republican right up until Trump was elected,

252
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,800
Speaker 4: and he switched parties and became a Democrat because you know,

253
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,520
Speaker 4: I guess a never Trump type Republican, but it's tough

254
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,839
Speaker 4: on crime prosecutor. And he ran his race against Measure

255
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,440
Speaker 4: one ten, which was the that was the measure that

256
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,400
Speaker 4: decriminalized drugs and said, you know, treatment over incarceration in

257
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,560
Speaker 4: Moltnoma County and which a lot of people in Maltnoma

258
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,440
Speaker 4: County blame for not actually moving people into treatment and

259
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,679
Speaker 4: instead just kind of creating kind of open air drug

260
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 4: markets and drug dens.

261
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 3: Basically all over Portland. People were also very.

262
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,960
Speaker 4: Upset at policing, the police just not responding anymore.

263
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 3: Police strikes.

264
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:10,160
Speaker 4: Plus you know, the protests continuing to this day, like

265
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 4: the George Floyd protests basically in Portland have never stopped.

266
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,559
Speaker 3: You got a hardcore group of people out there that are.

267
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 4: Like just their pastime is like smashing up the Bank

268
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 4: of America. And at some point people like, okay.

269
00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:22,040
Speaker 3: We'll get it.

270
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 4: We'll get it with the Bank of America. And so

271
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 4: this guy Vazquez ran against if we can put this

272
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 4: next element element up here, this was Jon and Martin

273
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 4: kind of uh, foreshadowing this this race.

274
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 3: He went out to do a.

275
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 4: Little fly into Portland and you know, correctly called that

276
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 4: the wind the political wins in Portland are blowing to

277
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 4: the right. Yes, and there was some backlash brewing here.

278
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,439
Speaker 6: Those are the center, I guess maybe.

279
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,560
Speaker 3: Well to the right of where they are. Yeah, they're

280
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 3: certainly not going to the right yet in Portland. Uh.

281
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 3: And so it looks like Mike Schmidt is going to lose.

282
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 4: Like, yes, I don't know if it's been absolutely called yet,

283
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 4: but it's basically over down.

284
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 6: By fourteen thousand votes as of early this morning.

285
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,520
Speaker 4: It's going to be very tough for him to make

286
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,079
Speaker 4: that up, and he gave a sort of concession last night.

287
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 3: Let's roll a little bit of Schmid's explanation for why

288
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,960
Speaker 3: he thinks he lost this race.

289
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 8: Well, I think, you know, I talked to a lot

290
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 8: of voters, and I've heard a lot of frustration about

291
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 8: long nine to one one wait times, about police officers

292
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,240
Speaker 8: not showing up, about when they see a case dismissed

293
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 8: for lack of a public defense attorney. And I think

294
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 8: if you're a community member, you just see things not working.

295
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 8: And so I think, you know, that's probably what we've

296
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 8: seen so far in the early results, and we'll still

297
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 8: see more to come out, but we've seen so far

298
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 8: in the early results is probably a manifestation of that frustration. Well,

299
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 8: I think what we saw was a rollout of Measure

300
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 8: one ten that didn't really hit the mark.

301
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 9: You know.

302
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 8: I think when people voted, myself included, we wanted treatment

303
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 8: to be there and available to people.

304
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 9: That's why we wanted to do that.

305
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,880
Speaker 8: And obviously, at the same time, a pandemic hit our

306
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 8: community in fentanyl on our streets, and the treatment wasn't there,

307
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,040
Speaker 8: and so I think people lost patients with that type

308
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 8: of approach.

309
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 9: But you know, I'm hopeful that we stay with our.

310
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 8: Focus on helping people who are addicted get treat I

311
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,880
Speaker 8: think that's the key and that's how we're actually going

312
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 8: to make progress on this fight.

313
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,240
Speaker 9: You know, there's so many things that I look back

314
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 9: and proud of.

315
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 8: Rebuilding the office, you know, bringing up the staffing. I'm

316
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 8: very proud of that, helping rebuild the infrastructure, but also

317
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 8: a lot of the disparity work with the Justice Integrity Unit.

318
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 8: We've doubled, more than doubled the number of wrongful convictions

319
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 8: found in Waltmamont County. We've corrected those. You know, We're

320
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 8: helping people get their records expunched so they can get jobs,

321
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 8: they can get into housing, they can go to their

322
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 8: kids basketball practice, you know, and those are the folks

323
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 8: who have earned those expungements so the records can be clear.

324
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 9: So I'm very proud of a lot of the work

325
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 9: that we've done with the as office.

326
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,240
Speaker 4: So this ties into the Giapaul race in the sense

327
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,680
Speaker 4: that Giapaul was herself. She retired, resigned from the Moltnoma

328
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 4: County Commission in order to run for Congress, and when

329
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,920
Speaker 4: the Apac back super PACs came in. The thing that

330
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 4: they attacked her for was being on the Moltnomah County

331
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 4: Board and not solving the homelessness crisis. The homelessness crisis

332
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 4: was a proxy for everything else going on in Portland,

333
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 4: And what we learned in Summer les Race, for instance,

334
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 4: is not only was she able to hammer her opponent

335
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 4: for taking MAGA money, she was just utterly squeaky clean.

336
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 4: There was nothing that they could hit her on, like

337
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 4: no stray comment that it could even be taken out

338
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 4: of context. They just had to basically use old racist

339
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 4: tropes to try to go after her like they had nothing.

340
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 4: And so all the money in the world has a

341
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 4: harder time breaking through if you don't have anything to

342
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 4: cling onto. And with Giapaul, they basically tied the entire

343
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 4: County Commission around her, and they said.

344
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 3: You don't like the ads were basically you don't like.

345
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 4: That the County Commission didn't fix homelessness, don't reward Giapaul

346
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 4: with an elevation to Congress. And if people really loved

347
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 4: what the County Commission was doing, dads wouldn't have worked

348
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 4: quite as well as they did, even though they were

349
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 4: filled with lies and saying like they literally said that

350
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 4: she was abusing puppies and yeah cats.

351
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was crazy over the top.

352
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 6: Step so really Christy Nome behavior.

353
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it fit exactly, but it fit into a

354
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 4: feeling of among Portlanders that that things.

355
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 3: Were not going well after the passage of this measure

356
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 3: one ten.

357
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 5: And speaking of that connection, Blumenauer himself even criticized it

358
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 5: as malpractice. That's quoted in the implementation of the referendum,

359
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 5: and the Jonathan Martin piece ties this into the big

360
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,560
Speaker 5: national story, which is you've had Kim Fox didn't run

361
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 5: again in the Chicago area, would there have been all

362
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 5: kinds of issues with crime since the pandemic and drugs

363
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,399
Speaker 5: and you know, just typical from what a lot of

364
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 5: big cities, even right here, have dealt with in different ways,

365
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 5: especially since twenty twenty and obviously for a long time,

366
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 5: but especially acute in the years after the pandemic and

367
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 5: the pandemic itself. Jonathan Martin so mentioned George Gascone, who's

368
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,159
Speaker 5: facing a challenge in November. Chesatboudine obviously was recalled. The

369
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 5: other person I would mention in all of this is

370
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 5: London Breed. The mayor of San Francisco who did a

371
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 5: similar see saw to what you're seeing in some places

372
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 5: in Portland, where it's like we can run on this

373
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 5: experiment with this and then when the public is unhappy

374
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,919
Speaker 5: with the results, you have to sometimes.

375
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 6: Take an out London. Breed definitely took the.

376
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 4: L Where I disagree with Jonathan on that is that

377
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 4: and also Breed was the right wing candidate in that

378
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 4: runoff in San Francisco. And so anything that she's a Democrat, yes,

379
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 4: all are all Democrats out there unless they're green. So

380
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 4: anything that she did, it was only because she was

381
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 4: pressured to do it, and then she backed off the

382
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 4: very second she could. When she had a chance to

383
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,199
Speaker 4: appoint people to the as supervisors, she appointed like the

384
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 4: literally the spokesperson for the cops.

385
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 3: Like that's who she put on the on.

386
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 4: The board of supervisors when she had an opportunity. If

387
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 4: you look at Dallas, Houston, you look at you look

388
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 4: at a ton of other even small town DA races,

389
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 4: they're doing really well.

390
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 3: Chase A. Boudin is like the outlier which and they were.

391
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 4: Trying to this is the San Francisco and they were

392
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 4: trying to they were trying to yank him out of

393
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 4: office before he was even sworn in, and spent millions

394
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 4: to do it, and things have not gotten better, Like

395
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 4: they're like all Chase his fault well and Karen Bath

396
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 4: so much yeah Ca and so a bunch of progressive

397
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 4: das have hung on. I think there's I wouldn't over

398
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 4: read too much about what's going on in Portland. Portland,

399
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 4: I don't think anybody would disagree is a unique city.

400
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I agree with that.

401
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 7: Uh.

402
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 4: And what what what defenders of the policy will say

403
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 4: is that and this sounds like, you know, true communism

404
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 4: has never been tried. Was that they didn't actually ever

405
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 4: implement a policy. They talked about implementing a policy, and

406
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 4: they passed half the laws, but then the Moltnoma County

407
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 4: Commission and they deserve blame for this, This is not cope,

408
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 4: just devolved into infighting and left money unspent, uh and

409
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 4: engage in these little petty turf wars and so never

410
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 4: actually came up with a coherent policy of what does

411
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 4: the post George Floyd and post drug policy reform world

412
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 4: look like? Instead, they just kind of ended what they

413
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 4: had been doing before, combined with a police strike and

414
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 4: then didn't put anything in its place, and people are like,

415
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 4: you know what, We'll just go back to.

416
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 3: The old thing. At least that was it. At least

417
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 3: that was least that was something. And we're going to

418
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 3: this on our Counterpoints.

419
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 4: Friday is going to be drug policy debate, focusing mostly

420
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 4: on marijuana rescheduling. Yeah, so we can talk about this

421
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 4: more later and on that show. So I'm sure Kevin Sabat,

422
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 4: who's going to be who's going to be our anti

423
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 4: guy in this debate, is going to be extraordinarily excited

424
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:50,640
Speaker 4: about Mike Schmid losing.

425
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 5: Final thought, just on this block would be going back

426
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 5: to the point you made on London Breed, which is

427
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 5: there was and I think your book even speaks to this,

428
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 5: there was an enthusiasm about the public's response to some

429
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 5: progressive fantasy bucket list items that started to surge at

430
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 5: a different time, and then after the pandemic, the political

431
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 5: winds have blown in another direction, and you've seen certain

432
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 5: Democrats respond to that in different ways. And I feel

433
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 5: like that's this election season, we'll have some stuff that

434
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 5: kind of shows us how different parts of the country

435
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 5: are dealing.

436
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 4: With that excellent plug for the book, Oh you want

437
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 4: for that? And meanwhile, crime is way down around the country,

438
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 4: like the kind of what depends on the pandemic crime

439
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 4: surge that we saw seeing that come down.

440
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 5: It depends on where, it depends on what kind of crime.

441
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 5: But yes, it's not the media coverage is not exactly

442
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 5: the true story and that shouldn't surprise anybody.

443
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, all.

444
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 5: Right, well we can actually go ahead and put this

445
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 5: first headline from CNN up on the screen. It just says,

446
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 5: Israel reverses on seizure of AP camera feed after intense backlash,

447
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 5: and you know that pretty much sums it up, just

448
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 5: reading from the lead of the CNN story. In a

449
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 5: sharp reversal, Israel said Tuesday it would return camera and

450
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 5: broadcast equipment it had ceased from the Associated Press in

451
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 5: the southern Israeli city of How do I say that

452
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 5: DA on Tuesday, after the action prompted swift backlash from

453
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 5: US officials and press groups. Swift backlash might be an understatement.

454
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 5: What did you make actually of how the US responded.

455
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 4: When they seized Their pretext for seizing the AP camera

456
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 4: was that Al Jazeera, which they have banned from operating

457
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 4: in the occupied territories or in Israel has a subscription

458
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 4: to the AP, as do most news organizations, and therefore

459
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 4: that the AP is just the same as Al Jazeera

460
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 4: and needs to be you know, rolled up just like them.

461
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 3: The White House, you know, expressed its concern, and it

462
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 3: was a.

463
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 4: Rare case of the White House expressing concern. Love Kenny

464
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 4: clips every time he makes fun of the White House for.

465
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 5: Expressing Ken Clippstein substacker, Ken Clippenstein, you can subscribe actually

466
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 5: to kind of.

467
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: kN Clippenstein dot com.

468
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 4: So if you're just listening on the podcast, it's a

469
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 4: Barack revw tweet, says breaking. White House Press Secretary Karine

470
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 4: Jean Pierre told reporters that the Biden administration is concerned

471
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 4: by reports that the Israeli government confiscated equipment of the AP.

472
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 3: She said journalists need to have the right and the

473
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 3: ability to do their job, which Kennett's breaking. The White

474
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 3: House is concerned.

475
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 4: But not only was the White House concerned, reporters throughout

476
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 4: Israel were concerned, and across the world were concerned. And

477
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 4: so it was a rare moment where Israel basically acknowledged

478
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 4: an overstep.

479
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, okay, are bad?

480
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 4: So they returned, They returned the equipment backing down a tiny.

481
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 5: Bit I was read actually the statement from the Israeli

482
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 5: Communications Minister who said he has ordered the equipment be

483
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 5: returned to the AP News agency because the Israeli Ministry

484
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 5: of Defense requested to re examine the matter of broadcasts

485
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 5: from sensitive locations and their effect on the.

486
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 6: Risk of our forces.

487
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 5: So when Israel is saying they're obviously the implicit reason

488
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 5: for seizing the AP cameras is that this is putting

489
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 5: your journalism, is putting the military at risk.

490
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 6: And actually there absolutely.

491
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 5: Are times when that's a real concern that journalists have

492
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 5: to grapple with and that governments have to grapple with.

493
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 5: But the rapid reversal here and saying from the statement,

494
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 5: just well, we've decided to reconsider the entire matter of

495
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 5: our approach, right because it felt like it was a

496
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 5: bit of a kind of fabricated rationale post hoc once

497
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 5: they were coming under fire for because for cracking down

498
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 5: the AP because it.

499
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 4: Has a relationship with Al Jazeera, which is that's what

500
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 4: AP does. They sell their feed, their wire service, the

501
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: wire service like that, there's an association of the press

502
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 4: and Aljazier is part of the press, whether Israel likes

503
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: it or not. They have already banned basically any West

504
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 4: journalists from getting into Gaza. What they're what they would

505
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 4: be claiming now is that getting anywhere near Gaza is

506
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 4: also something that they're not going to allow. But it

507
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 4: seems they did at least a backtrack on this. Yeah quickly, Yeah,

508
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: speaking of press, uh, press freedoms, we can talk about

509
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 4: this real quickly. At least seven Palestinians were killed in

510
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 4: a raid in Janine recently. Janine has been the subject

511
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 4: of intense IDF raids for years now.

512
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 3: Uh. And it was actually where shrin Abu Wakla was killed.

513
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 4: Yes, but obviously before October seventh. Palestinian media is saying

514
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 4: that a fifty year old surgeon named doctor use Jabarin

515
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 4: was was killed killed on his way to work, as

516
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 4: was a child who was riding his bicycle. There are

517
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 4: a lot of videos that you can find on social

518
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 4: media just absolutely indiscriminated shooting from IDF forces. IDF says

519
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 4: it is going to investigate itself to see if any

520
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 4: of this indiscriminate shooting did did kill people that they

521
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 4: allegedly did not intend to kill.

522
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 5: We'll see now on the other side of this talking

523
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 5: about humanitarian concerns and potential famine.

524
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 6: And food shortages.

525
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 5: Let's put this element from Haratz up on the screen

526
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 5: that begins with the quote spill it onto the road,

527
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 5: and the headline proceeds to say, how right wing Israeli

528
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 5: activists are organizing to block AID trucks to Gaza.

529
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 6: This is an.

530
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 5: Investigation and overview of some of the organized efforts to

531
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 5: block some of these AID trucks. The next element hears

532
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 5: from the Guardian. It suggests their reporting suggests that Israeli

533
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 5: soldiers and police are tipping off some of those groups.

534
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 5: So again, like the organization here, I think is important.

535
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 5: The coordination, right, I think is important because some people

536
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 5: may say, well, this is just sort of organic gatherings

537
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 5: of you know, people who are still raging from the raging,

538
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 5: you know, happenings on October seventh, the tragedy, the killings,

539
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 5: the slaughter on October seventh. But I think it's important

540
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 5: here also to mention that this is an organized effort

541
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 5: when it comes to the AID trucks. Absolutely, and that's

542
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 5: what the Guardian reporting suggests. And I think kind of

543
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 5: confirms from the perspective of how is really law enforcement's

544
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 5: handling it.

545
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, all the way to the top. We can put

546
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 4: up this next element from it. Timir ben Gavier, national

547
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 4: security minister, who was like raging. He said, quote, why

548
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 4: are my cops here? Because you've seen what you've seen,

549
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: And basically what he's saying is why on earth are

550
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 4: Israeli authorities defending the AID convoys that are going to

551
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 4: Gaza from these protesters, Like he wants to support the

552
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 4: protesters rather than the AID convoys.

553
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: What you're seeing here.

554
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 4: Is the same thing that happened with the AP camera.

555
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 4: The world opinion is just so overwhelmingly against this idea

556
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 4: that you're going to allow and organize with right wing

557
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 4: protesters to block flower and other aid from getting into Gaza,

558
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 4: that there has been some suppression of that internally. One

559
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 4: of the lead organizations this happened last week, one of

560
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 4: the lead organizations that was organizing these protests announced that

561
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 4: it was going to pause them. It's not a good

562
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 4: time to do these Now. There's still some obviously people

563
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 4: who are still continuing to do it, but the kind

564
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 4: of viral videos of them smashing flower bags and destroying

565
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 4: things right after Biden just had a temper tantrum in

566
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 4: the United States about how breaking a window at Colombia

567
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: is property violence and like the greatest crime that you

568
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 4: could possibly imagine. You got all this property violence over

569
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 4: against the AID going in. And so this also coming

570
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 4: at the same time as the icc arrest warrants being

571
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: applied for and the ICJ moving forward with its accusation

572
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: against the against the State of Israel that it is starving,

573
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 4: deliberately starving this population.

574
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 6: That's absolutely critical.

575
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 5: By the way, the Guardian report that we had up

576
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 5: on the screen about whether it's really police are tipping

577
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 5: off some of the activists who are blocking the AID trucks,

578
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 5: not merely protesting the AID trucks, but actively trying to

579
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 5: block the AID trucks. That goes to whether this is

580
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 5: a deliberate effort on behalf of the government itself as

581
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 5: opposed to again, just some protests that they're working to contain,

582
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 5: just some activists that they're working to contain. That's critical

583
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 5: to the question that the ic C is considering. And

584
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 5: I think Ryan that's probably why we're seeing more about

585
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 5: it in the media right now, because this has become

586
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 5: a football in both sides of that battle. And I

587
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 5: mean it's a tough thing for them to get around

588
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 5: when you have Benavier to the point that you just

589
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 5: made the quotes from Van Kavie, you have the statements

590
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 5: and the way that he's approached all of this, and

591
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 5: other people as well.

592
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 6: I think that's why.

593
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 5: This is becoming such a I mean, it's obvious, you

594
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 5: don't even need my speculation. That's why this is becoming

595
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 5: such a major conversation about how this is actually happening,

596
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 5: what organization is behind this, what coordination is behind this.

597
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 5: That's critical to the ICC proving that there's something deliberate

598
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 5: happening on behalf of the Israeli government.

599
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: And since you know, glimmers of hope are so few

600
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 4: in this, we should mention that a very cool organization

601
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 4: in Israel called Standing Together, which is it's kind of

602
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 4: a coexistence organization with both Jewish Israelis and Palestinians as

603
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: members of it, as kind of co leaders of it.

604
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 4: They've been now going down to these protests and standing

605
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 4: together against the protesters and kind of defending the trucks

606
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: that are trying to get in. Most of what they

607
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 4: do nowadays is basically criminal under Israeli law. And so

608
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 4: we'll see what the reaction is to.

609
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 3: This organization being willing to stand up for these trucks.

610
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, from what I'm hearing from people on the ground

611
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: at the crossings, the number of trucks getting through yesterday

612
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 4: and the day before is dangerously close to approaching like

613
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 4: single digits, like Israel had been bragging about, say two hundred,

614
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 4: you know, getting in a day where the UN was saying, no.

615
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: You need a thousand or more on a daily basis.

616
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: Getting down into double digits or single digits is bringing

617
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: it to a place where distribution is stopping, like the

618
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: UN announced, like a lot of AID distributions just stopped.

619
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: Cupboards are bare, running out of fuel, can't because fuel

620
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 4: is obviously essential for distributing the aid. You don't have fuel,

621
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 4: you can't distribute the aid. And so all of this

622
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 4: is happening in the context of real things on the ground,

623
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 4: and the real things on the ground are Aid getting

624
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: choked to a point of almost zero.

625
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: The RAFA is still not open.

626
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: You've got you know, Egypt refusing on its side to

627
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: cooperate with Israel, Israel refusing to allow anything but fuel

628
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: but Egypt not letting anything in and then everything having

629
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 4: to go through Carara Shalom, but just an absolute trickle

630
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: getting through there.

631
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 5: And they're not wrong that those the difficulties of having

632
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 5: you know, a de facto Hamas government in these places

633
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 5: makes it difficult in a war zone. That's not going

634
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: to be a non issue anywhere that there's aid being

635
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: distributed in.

636
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 6: A war zone.

637
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 5: But to you know, say that we are providing adequate

638
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 5: aid is different than saying no, we're just outright starving everyone.

639
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 5: And Israel is saying, you know, despite all of these challenges,

640
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 5: there is no starvation, there is no famine. We are

641
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 5: providing adequate aid. They're not a party to the ICC. Obviously,

642
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 5: this is that's another issue entirely. But they are saying

643
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: one thing, and that's you.

644
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 3: Know, the reality on the ground is different.

645
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think everyone understands that there are real challenges.

646
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 5: Even in the best case scenario, there are real challenges here.

647
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 5: But the difference between what's being publicly said and what's

648
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 5: actually happening, I think is what's being sussed out in

649
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 5: some of this reporting. Speaking of Rafa Ryan, we put

650
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 5: this next element up on the screen. This is a

651
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 5: tweet from Just Foreign Policy. This is kind of it was.

652
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 5: I don't want to say buried, but it was in

653
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 5: a David Ignacious report in the Washington Post. Biden no

654
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 5: longer opposing Israel's plan for final assault on Rafa's have

655
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 5: Just Foreign Policy phrased it, but it was in this

656
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 5: David Ignacious column. He writes, Israeli leaders have reached a

657
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 5: consensus about a final assault hamasa's four remaining battalions in Rafa,

658
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 5: instead of the heavy attack with two divisions that Israel

659
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: contemplated several weeks ago. Government and military leaders foresee a

660
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 5: more limited assault that US officials think will result.

661
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 6: In fewer civilian casualties.

662
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 5: And for that reason, Biden won't oppose sort of a

663
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 5: barred lead.

664
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 6: I don't know, right, No.

665
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 5: Biden won't oppose this quote limited assault, even though he

666
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 5: was opposed to the Rafa incursion. Here and you get

667
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 5: this very friendly to the national security state. David agnantius

668
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 5: a report saying well, Biden won't approach won't oppose a

669
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 5: quote more limited assault. The White House would never put

670
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 5: on a statement to that.

671
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 6: Effect, but I guess they will leak it through David.

672
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: Ignacious rights ignacious. D is the kind of the CIA. Yes,

673
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 3: like that's that's the go to source for.

674
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 6: Them, briefed the CIA in fact.

675
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

676
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 4: And so for anybody who believed the Biden insistence over

677
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 4: the months that Rafa was a red line, it just

678
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 4: makes a mockery of that naivete because here he's saying, oh,

679
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 4: you know what, actually the way you're doing it, that's okay.

680
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 4: There's four battalions. Just we thought it was going to be,

681
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 4: you know, much worse than this, But this, this seems fine. Meanwhile,

682
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 4: the reports from the ground are often absolute bloodbath, in

683
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 4: rough plus eight hundred thousand people so far migrating elsewhere

684
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 4: in Gaza to places that have no sanitation, no hygiene,

685
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: no water. The entire condition was Israel had to have

686
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 4: some plan where they.

687
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: Were going to move people. They didn't come up with

688
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 3: a plan.

689
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 4: Their plan basically was we're going to make it so

690
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 4: violent when we invade that they're either going to die

691
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 4: or they're going to just find somewhere to run to elsewhere.

692
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 4: And Biden responds to that by saying, eh, okay, this

693
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 4: is fine.

694
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 5: So let's put this next element up. This is from

695
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 5: Prem Thacker, who was responding to Anthony Blincoln's testimony in

696
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 5: from Congress yesterday. So he said he's happy to work

697
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 5: with Congress unquote inappropriate response. This is Blincoln to the

698
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 5: ICC prosecutor issuing warrants to Israeli leaders. Now prem then

699
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 5: quote tweeted that original tweet and said, minutes later Senators Graham, Cardon, Bloomenthalsh, Shaheen, Fetterman,

700
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 5: Rish brit Thune. So that's a bipartisan coalition declare they'll

701
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 5: work in quote a bipartisan manner to strenuously object to

702
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 5: the ICC's actions against our ally Israel and take appropriate

703
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 5: steps to help Israel and protect Americans from ICC action.

704
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 5: Ren That just brings us back to basically why these

705
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 5: conversations and the reporting from the Guardian that we mentioned

706
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 5: earlier is critical because the US now has this huge

707
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: issue on its hands when it comes to the ICC,

708
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 5: When it comes to the US's funding of what's happening

709
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 5: in Israel, the US is sort of sanctioning of what

710
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 5: the Israeli military does.

711
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 6: To the extent that that happens.

712
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 5: The central question of deliberate aid blocking, deliberate activism against

713
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 5: aid blocking, that question becomes key in even what the

714
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 5: US response to all of this is how far the

715
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 5: US goes to defend what's happening. This bipartisan coalition obviously

716
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 5: was eager to jump on them, and one.

717
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 4: Thing I forgot to put in the rundown, but I

718
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 4: think it's worth mentioning before we move on to what

719
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: we got Bill Maher, And.

720
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 6: We got Bill Maher coming right.

721
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 3: Don't worry, we'll get to Bill on Monday.

722
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 4: At the State Department, I asked about this, this deal

723
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: that Hamas had agreed to, and asked the State Department

724
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 4: what role did director William Burns play CIA director William

725
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 4: Burn's play in this role, because there's reporting that he

726
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 4: signed off on the thing. And Miller's answer was kind

727
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 4: of interesting because it was like, there's been some good

728
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 4: reporting on this, some not, but he didn't. He didn't

729
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: just say no, Burns did not sign off on that.

730
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: It was. There was a much kind of a more

731
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 3: open ended answer.

732
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 4: And then there was this fascinating report in CNN yesterday

733
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 4: which I'm not sure if you saw it, that said

734
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 4: that an Egyptian intelligence officer. So take all this with

735
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 4: a grain of salt, but it's interesting that it's being

736
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 4: reported and it might also be true.

737
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: An Egyptian intelligence.

738
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 4: Officer tweaked the proposal after the US cut through Egypt.

739
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 4: Israel had all agreed to it before sending it to

740
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 4: Hamas last week last week, and then Hamas agreed to

741
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 4: the one that they had been delivered. So what we

742
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: were being told was that Hamas changed it yes and

743
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 4: then agreed to it and was and it was trying

744
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 4: to get one over on everybody and fake agreeing to

745
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 4: a ceasefire. But what we're now being told is that

746
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 4: they agreed to the exact deal that they were offered

747
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 4: and were told that the Israelis were supportive of because

748
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: the tweaks were minor. An Egyptian so one of the

749
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 4: quotes in the article, Hamas was telling their people, we

750
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 4: will have a deal in place tomorrow. In other words,

751
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 4: that this was not a gimmick, like Hamas was not

752
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 4: just playing pr and expecting a rough invasion, like they

753
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 4: thought that they had agreed to the deal. They even

754
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: named the intern who made the changes. He's not an intern,

755
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 4: but this is how CNN reports it. The three sources

756
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 4: familiar with the matter told CNN that a senior Egyptian

757
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 4: intelligence official named Ahmed Abdel Kalak was responsible for making

758
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 4: the changes. Abdel Khalik is a senior deputy to the

759
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 4: Egyptian intelligence chief of Bass Kamel, who has been Burns's

760
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 4: counterpart in leading Egypt's mediation in the ceasefire talks. One

761
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 4: source familiar with the negotiation said Kalik told the Israelis

762
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: one thing and Hamas another.

763
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 3: More of Hamas's.

764
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 4: Demands were inserted into the original framework that Israel had

765
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 4: tacitly agreed to in order to secure Hamas's approval, the

766
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 4: source said. So, one source is saying that Israel actually

767
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 4: did agree to most of this, but the other mediators

768
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 4: were not.

769
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 3: Informed, nor critically were the Israelis.

770
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: So giant mess and it's like they're trying to say

771
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: it was this guy Kalik who tweaked the thing at

772
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 4: the last minute, which, like I said, there's something happened here,

773
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 4: and the fact that it's leaking out to CNN here

774
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 4: suggests that there's some clean up going on on the

775
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 4: part of the West and that it does appear from

776
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 4: this reporting that Hamas was earnestly agreeing to a piece deal.

777
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 6: It's pretty interesting that's in CNN.

778
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jeremy Diamonds, one of the reporters there. He's a

779
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 4: very very strong reporter. He's done some really good work

780
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 4: out of there. So because like you know, CNN contains multitudes,

781
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 4: to put it generously, that's one win.

782
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 3: And Jeremy Diamond's done a lot of very good reporting.

783
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 5: So, Ryan, I just wanted to say before we move on,

784
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 5: that was maybe we were approaching peek, Ryan Gram when

785
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 5: you said, I forgot to put it in the rundown,

786
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 5: but you know, it reminded me.

787
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 6: I was tying in the State.

788
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 5: Department this week about the CIA director. But you know,

789
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 5: I'm glad you remembered it because it was quite relevant.

790
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it becomes extra relevant when the CNN report

791
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 4: came out later, So it was only It's like, whatever,

792
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 4: it's an interesting answer, but I'm not sure what's going

793
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: on here, But then when you pair it with this

794
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 4: the CNN clip, I mean, the CNN report, it's kind

795
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 4: of interesting.

796
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 5: Let's move on to Bill Maher's appearance on The View,

797
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 5: where he talked about in fact, the conflict in the

798
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 5: Middle East and how it has royaled American college campuses.

799
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 5: If you're wondering, why do I need to hear what

800
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 5: Bill Maher said on the View, I understand, but it's

801
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 5: pretty it's a pretty interesting fiery exchange that I think

802
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: that leaves a lot to be discussed. So with that setup,

803
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 5: please enjoy Bill Maher getting into a little bit of

804
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 5: a fight with Sunny Austin Little Left on left violence

805
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 5: here over quote wokeness on the View.

806
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 10: Well, I had a different question, but it struck me

807
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 10: that in the first segment you used the term woke,

808
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 10: and you said that woke is what was sort of

809
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 10: ruining everything.

810
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 6: And I know that you're no.

811
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 7: I didn't say ruining everything. I said that's why Trump

812
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 7: could get reelected.

813
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 6: That's why Trump could get reelected.

814
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 10: So I just the term woke has been, in my view,

815
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 10: co opted by the right and weaponized and bastardized. And

816
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 10: so I was surprised to hear you use the term

817
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 10: because historically, as you know, because I think you're quite brilliant,

818
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 10: that woke is a word used by the black community

819
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 10: to note that we must be aware of social injustices.

820
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 10: But why is that a bad thing?

821
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 7: It's not a bad thing, and originally that was absolutely

822
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 7: a great thing, alert to injustice. Who's not for that?

823
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 7: But words do migrate. Now, I'll use any term you want,

824
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 7: because maybe that is a word that's triggering, and so

825
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 7: we let's not use that word. I know I want

826
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 7: to call it the super far left, but don't tell

827
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 7: me the left had right we.

828
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 9: Talked out the left then, okay, but but.

829
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 7: We've talked about that. I mean, I think we agree

830
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 7: about the danger of the super far right, and you know,

831
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 7: I can't say it enough. I think they're the bigger threat.

832
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 7: But don't tell me that the left hasn't changed. I mean,

833
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 7: I'm old enough to remember when it was the conservatives

834
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 7: who hated the Jews. Okay, that was a joke. Well

835
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 7: maybe it is, but it's true. I mean, you know,

836
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 7: if I had any doubt that I was right about

837
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 7: the change that's happened in the left, watching people protest

838
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 7: for a terrorist organization like Hamas that straightened me up

839
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 7: pretty quick. Yeah.

840
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that because I think

841
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: you're almost a free speech absolutist. You believe totally in

842
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: the right to say what you believe. But I think

843
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: a lot of us were disturbed to see terrorist flags

844
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: being waved on American college campuses and seeing this a

845
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: generation that may some I think genuinely care about the

846
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: play of the Palestinians.

847
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 6: I think most Americans do.

848
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: But some who seem to be embracing a terrorist organization

849
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: over the nation of Israel.

850
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 6: What do you make at this moment?

851
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: What do you think it's a result of how do

852
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: we fix it?

853
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 6: Well?

854
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 7: I mean it's just astounding to me that they can't

855
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 7: tell the good guys from the bad guys. I mean

856
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 7: just the morally. I mean, let me tell you, if

857
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 7: you're for Hamas, just live in gossip for a day.

858
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 7: And I'm not talking about while the war is on.

859
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 7: I mean before the war, trust me, you would go

860
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 7: running and screaming and begging to live and tell of

861
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 7: ev a place that has your values. I mean, women

862
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 7: have no I mean it's the show watched by a

863
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 7: lot of women. Women have no rights in this place

864
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 7: and a lot of majority Muslim countries around the world.

865
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 7: I mean, there is no equal rights as far as speech, dress,

866
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 7: opportunities for education, reproductive rights, freedom from sexual violence, freedom

867
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 7: from sexual harassment, that too. But you throw around the

868
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 7: term apartheid. There is a gender apartheid in a lot

869
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 7: of the world where women are second class citizens at best,

870
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 7: are you.

871
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 10: At all concerned about the innocent civilians that have been

872
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 10: collectively punished and murdered, largely children and women. And are

873
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 10: you at all concerned about the fact that the International

874
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 10: Criminal Court just today issued a subpoena for BBTA.

875
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 7: Well, that's ridiculous, But it's a war. It's a war

876
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 7: because it's a war and they were attacked and they're

877
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 7: defending themselves.

878
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, where to start there?

879
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 5: I will say, exceptionally substantive discussion for the view, and

880
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 5: I mean that in the literal sense. Exception is an

881
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 5: exception to how those conversations normally go.

882
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 4: But we could start with his claim that if you

883
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 4: lived in Gaza before October seventh, you would go running

884
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 4: and screaming to say, let me out of here, and

885
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 4: I want to go live in Tel Avivah. Isn't that

886
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 4: what everybody in Gaza was doing? I mean, like that

887
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 4: so strips all of the context out of the situation. Yes,

888
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 4: it forgets the fact that nobody in Gaza could leave. Yeah,

889
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 4: and no it's not. No, they weren't trapped in Gaza

890
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 4: because of Hamas. Like he's like, if you lived in Gaza,

891
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 4: you'd want to leave, Okay, so to a lot of

892
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 4: people and go to go visit their families in the

893
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 4: West Bank, to visit their families elsewhere in the world,

894
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 4: to get medical appointments, to do business, but they are

895
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 4: not allowed to leave by Israel.

896
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 3: Like that.

897
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: That is kind of irrelevant detail. But this is this

898
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 4: whole question when he's saying good guys and bad guys.

899
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 5: But that's where this becomes a cycle, because he would say,

900
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 5: you know, in part of course, yes, they are being

901
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 5: stopped from that by Hamas, because Hamas is the defecto

902
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 5: government and there's.

903
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 3: This like what about before Hamas?

904
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 6: And that's what I was just going.

905
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 5: To say that that conversation, I think it loses it's

906
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 5: worth when you're trying to have a broad discussion with

907
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 5: no context for why there is extremism in Hamah in Hamas,

908
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 5: of course in Hamas, but in Gaza and among so

909
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 5: many people. And that's a reaction obviously to years and

910
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 5: years of conflict that has put people in living conditions

911
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 5: that you wouldn't wish on your own family. And so

912
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 5: when you aren't talking about that, it's obviously an issue.

913
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Bill Maher is just flat out islamophobic, and

914
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 4: I wonder at this point if you would even like

915
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 4: quibble with that claim, and you're seeing an expression of

916
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 4: it there.

917
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: But even in.

918
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 4: Bill Maher's on Bill Maher's own terms, the Palestinian resistance,

919
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 4: the Palestinian political structure, you know, back in the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties,

920
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 4: nineties up into the two thousands was much more secular.

921
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's changed.

922
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 4: Until yeah, until this kind of militant, armed resistance element

923
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,760
Speaker 4: grew up because the Palestinian people believed that the Oslo

924
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 4: Accords and the negotiating process with Lacud in power insisting

925
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 4: that there would be no two states ever was a

926
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 4: dead end and you needed a more militant direction to

927
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 4: change the equation, like as talked about in that debate

928
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 4: with with Destiny and Omar, anytime that peace was on

929
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 4: the horizon, support for Hamas would plummet. Any anytime that

930
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 4: that that was taken off the table, support for Hamas

931
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 4: would rise. And so if Bill Maher actually, you know,

932
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 4: wants to strip Hamas and these longest elements, uh, that's

933
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 4: that it kind of course through it. The way to

934
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 4: do it would be supporting actual peace efforts, not by

935
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 4: just tightening the occupation, and then and then and then

936
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 4: complaining that about the resistance to the occupation.

937
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 5: And this is probably the rub for me and I

938
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 5: think some people on the right, not a lot of people,

939
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 5: not a lot of other people on the right. But

940
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 5: that conversation about militant extreme Islamism, I think is an

941
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 5: important one. We probably I don't know if we've ever

942
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 5: even talked about that, but we probably disagree on some

943
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 5: points of it. But I also probably share some of

944
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 5: Bill Maher's concerns in that respect. But if you were

945
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 5: doubling down on the current strategy to quell extreme militant Islamism,

946
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 5: if that's your strategy at this point, is to double

947
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 5: down on the strategy that has failed for decades and

948
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 5: in fact, arguably, even by their own argument, has exacerbated

949
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 5: the conditions. You're not making anybody safer at this point.

950
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 5: It's just clearly not working. You know, it doesn't excuse violence,

951
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 5: you know that. I'm sure there are some people that

952
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 5: will make that argument, but just it doesn't. It does

953
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 5: help explain it, right, It does help explain why nothing

954
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 5: is changing.

955
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 4: Right, And also Ben Gavie and the rest of them

956
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 4: when it comes when it comes to women's rights and

957
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 4: women's place in society. That entire, growing, massive faction of

958
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 4: Israeli society is not far from Amas and the other

959
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 4: is loamist when it comes to kind of the religious fundamentalism.

960
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 4: Bill Maher has this blind spot when it comes to that.

961
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 5: I mean, I'd rather live in Israel any day as

962
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 5: a woman than.

963
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 4: For now, like on the current trajectory. See let's check

964
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 4: in again in twenty years. You know that there are

965
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 4: intense forces within Israel's political space that are trying to

966
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 4: make sure that that's not the case in ten, twenty

967
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 4: thirty years.

968
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 5: It's the conversations about this are so hamstrung by the aperture, you.

969
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 6: Know, like just not being able to zoom out.

970
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 5: I agree, I think not being able to zoom out

971
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 5: and honestly a praise what's happening in the from the

972
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 5: thirty thousand foot view is a really, really one of

973
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 5: the biggest challenges I think we've had, like in the

974
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 5: media since October seventh. And I also think you're just

975
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 5: people have turned a blind eye, like sort of willfully

976
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 5: ignored a lot of the long term problems here because

977
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 5: they've been told over and over again by American intelligence

978
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 5: and you know, the Pentagon that there's one thing happening,

979
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 5: and you know they trusted that for a long time

980
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 5: and don't have as much trust in that anymore. Actually,

981
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 5: that's what we're about to talk about, honestly in the

982
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 5: polling block.

983
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's move to that in a second. I can't

984
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 3: find the essay.

985
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 4: Now, there's a really good essay that was that I

986
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 4: read recently making the case that basically there are two

987
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 4: Israels right now. There's the calling one Juday in Samaria

988
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 4: and the other Israel. One one a kind of secular

989
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 4: but ethno obviously at no religious, but more the Tel

990
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 4: Aviv high tech like cosmopolitan uh. And the other the

991
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 4: kind of fundamentalist Orthodox element that is increasingly powerful within

992
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 4: the net Yahoo coalition.

993
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 3: And that and.

994
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 4: That those two Israels basically can't can't coexist.

995
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 2: Uh.

996
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 4: And and they're locked in a in a death struggle

997
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 4: with each other.

998
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of that poured into the

999
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 5: streets when the judicial reform, which I think we actually

1000
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 5: disagreed on at the time, but when that was uh,

1001
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 5: you saw that It's it's kind of a culture clash.

1002
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 5: I mean, it absolutely is a culture clash. And so

1003
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 5: it's obviously going to be a huge whatever happens militarily,

1004
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 5: this is a huge front and center, like maybe the

1005
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 5: biggest political thing happening in Israel right now is increasingly

1006
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 5: that divide