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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, fourteen

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Speaker 1: year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I am Anius Williams.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking about fatherhood, but not just fatherhood. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about fatherhood raising daddy's little girls. More specifically, as

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Speaker 1: we would call Gridiron, dad's two girls. Big strong NFL players,

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Speaker 1: raising young ladies. And I have the pleasure of introducing

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Speaker 1: to my friends and to legends who have been serving

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Speaker 1: legends throughout probably the past four or five years, and

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Speaker 1: that's Lennard Wheeler and Mike Rutger. So as we get

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Speaker 1: into this podcast, the first thing I ask you, guys,

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Speaker 1: what's the first thing that got your attention? What you're

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Speaker 1: let's go with your first daughter, Mike, I think, um,

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Speaker 1: I agree when when you're saying, like, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: a guy and playing sports, like you just want this boy.

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Speaker 1: You want to make sure you have a boy. And

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Speaker 1: first it's always like I want I want my kids

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Speaker 1: to be healthy, and then I want that boy, you know,

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Speaker 1: carrying the name and so forth. In the family, and

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Speaker 1: so we didn't find out what we were having. So

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Speaker 1: when we go into the to the emergency room and

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Speaker 1: we have and our daughter and she comes out first,

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Speaker 1: you just excited. So you and your wife decided we

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Speaker 1: are not going to find out. No, we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: find out. So the whole time, did y'all have any inklings?

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Speaker 1: Like I had none? None? You know you have all

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Speaker 1: you know, where's your belly at this and that? But

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like when when when

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Speaker 1: your first kid, there's a lot of emotions going on.

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Speaker 1: So when you have your first kid, you know, you

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Speaker 1: count your toes, everybody healthy, yes, and then it's just

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Speaker 1: like you just look at your your girl like this

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Speaker 1: is my girl and um, and in my mind it

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Speaker 1: was like this was my girl, it's my boy. It's

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Speaker 1: all wrapped in one. And that's the way our relationship

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Speaker 1: UM has been, and that's the way it started. It

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Speaker 1: was just rough. She's rough, she's tough. UM. When I

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Speaker 1: go through the injuries that she's had, and we just

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Speaker 1: talked about this a couple of weeks ago. The stitches

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Speaker 1: and and the broken arms and all those kind of

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Speaker 1: things that that fits her personality, that fits her being

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Speaker 1: the first child, she was rough and tough. If she

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Speaker 1: could have played football, she would have played football. Um

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Speaker 1: built like my mom, built like my grandma. We're we're

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Speaker 1: a family of women, and so it was just fitting

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Speaker 1: for for us to have, you know, a girl right

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Speaker 1: out the back. And literally we've talked about your daughter.

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Speaker 1: Can she out run you? Yet she cannot. I told

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Speaker 1: her that she'll probably be able to run me when

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Speaker 1: I'm around seventies seventy, not even close right now. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say, hold on, you didn't ask was

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Speaker 1: it close? And it really depends on the distance, because

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Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna ask you. It depends on

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Speaker 1: the distance the four hundred. No, she cannot run. No,

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Speaker 1: she would not be even if I had a poor hamstring,

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Speaker 1: I would crawl through the finish. Life got you. So

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Speaker 1: you still have that, dad, I still have that down

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Speaker 1: like this game on, let's go. So your first moment, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what your daughter? What being that gridiron dead? What was it?

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Speaker 1: That moment? Like probably my first moment when she was

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Speaker 1: in the hospital, she took her breath before she came

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Speaker 1: out of the womb, and so they had to kind

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Speaker 1: of rush her out. So that they can suck it

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Speaker 1: out of her nose. So I noticed that that initially

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Speaker 1: she was going to be impatient. I mean she was

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Speaker 1: ready to do She was ready to come into the

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Speaker 1: world before she was ready to come into the world.

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Speaker 1: And so when she came into the world and she

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Speaker 1: took that first breath, it really she really captured my

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Speaker 1: heart right there, because at that time, you don't want

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Speaker 1: anything to happen to your kids. And so at that point,

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Speaker 1: just the just the compassion and the love that I

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Speaker 1: saw in her eyes, I was like, I'm done. That

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Speaker 1: was my baby all day. There's a question, did you

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Speaker 1: guys cry? I don't think I did. Know. I was

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Speaker 1: feeling too much to cry. I was feeling everything. Is

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Speaker 1: this the meal answer? Or or am I getting hold on? Now?

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Speaker 1: You're asking when you but I okay? Are you saying

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Speaker 1: did we cry when we first saw them? When you

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Speaker 1: first saw your daughter? No, I didn't cry when I

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Speaker 1: first saw But did I have did she have my

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Speaker 1: heart string? Would you describe that since there were no

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Speaker 1: tears evident? What what does that mean? Your heart strength?

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Speaker 1: That there was nothing that I would not do to

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Speaker 1: protect her? In my head because I looked at it

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Speaker 1: almost as the father looks at me to say, I'm

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Speaker 1: responsible for you. And so that sense of belonging to

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Speaker 1: this world literally just just catapulted me to a different

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Speaker 1: level of responsibility as a man to say I will

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Speaker 1: do everything I have to do to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you are okay. Wow, Mike, I didn't cry. Um, thinking

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Speaker 1: about it, now, I didn't. You didn't, not. I didn't

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Speaker 1: because she was upside down and so they had to

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Speaker 1: use an instrument to to pull her out. And so

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Speaker 1: I remember when she came out, she had, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a suction cup and so she had a

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Speaker 1: cone head. And all I can think of was is

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Speaker 1: that gonna stay like that? You know? And so that's

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Speaker 1: where my mind kind of was at. But then once

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Speaker 1: they said absolutely not, it will go down, just because

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Speaker 1: of the suction cup that they had to use. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I think that initial emotional peace was different than

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Speaker 1: than you know, the crying peace other but um, but

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing two strong football guys. You were sounding like

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Speaker 1: you were in the room. Oh yeah, like all into it.

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Speaker 1: Like I was used to be a time where a

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Speaker 1: man told me, don't tell me about the paint. You

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Speaker 1: just delivered the baby no, no, no, I wanted. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to deliver the baby actually, but they wouldn't allow me. No.

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Speaker 1: I was in it. I was in it all day

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Speaker 1: to win it. I wanted everything to do with it. Now,

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Speaker 1: Mike Lenna mentioned one daughter. So I'm asking you, because

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Speaker 1: you have a daughters and son. Learning mention his daughter

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Speaker 1: got his heart string. You use it on here that

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Speaker 1: when a boy is born, right, how would you describe that?

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Speaker 1: So between the daughters and your son being lawn again,

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Speaker 1: you know, then I was like, okay, um, you know

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Speaker 1: we've got one of each, and so my boy, it

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Speaker 1: was totally different. Right. So, um, this story behind that

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Speaker 1: is we're a young organization with the Carolina Panthers, and

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Speaker 1: we have just made the playoffs and we have a

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Speaker 1: home playoff game against the Dallas Cowboys, and we knew

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Speaker 1: that we would be on the road if we would

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Speaker 1: go to the Super Bowl year, we'd be on the road.

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Speaker 1: And so she wasn't due for another two weeks. So

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Speaker 1: we had to make a decision to go into the

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Speaker 1: hospital to have the child, induce, induce or go and

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Speaker 1: and risk me being on the road somewhere. And this

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Speaker 1: going on, and you can already imagine the tussles of

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Speaker 1: emotions that you have to do there. So we beat

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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. Maybe six eight hours later, we're in

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Speaker 1: the hospital and we induced in and we had our boy.

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Speaker 1: So again, the emotions were totally different because you you

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Speaker 1: just laid it out on the field less than like,

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Speaker 1: you know, twelve hours ago, you know, on TV playing

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Speaker 1: the football game, and here you are totally different emotions

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Speaker 1: of having your second child and finds out you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a boy, and so um, so some two

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Speaker 1: different emotions. But then again I was just happy because

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Speaker 1: now I had, you know, a girl, and then I

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Speaker 1: had a boy and he was a big boy. So

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Speaker 1: I always felt like you know, um, you know, we

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Speaker 1: were checked the boxes there of having one of each.

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Speaker 1: How did you handle the difficulties you mentioned your daughter

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Speaker 1: ingesting oxygen immeatly in the wombs right then your daughter

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Speaker 1: being flipped? Yeah, how did you handle that? Because we

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Speaker 1: try to handle things as athletes, right, how did you

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Speaker 1: handle that? There are so many different emotions that goes

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Speaker 1: through your mind. Tell us about the no. But seriously though, okay,

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Speaker 1: so one of the things I don't know how other

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Speaker 1: cultures do, but African American culture, we have a thing

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Speaker 1: that where look at the color of the ears that

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Speaker 1: will tell you how dr baby is gonna be. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I've never heard that I'm gonna I'm gonna check your

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Speaker 1: car later, but anyway, so so so we always have

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Speaker 1: a thing to say, look at the baby's ears, and

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Speaker 1: that will tell you how doc they're gonna be right

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Speaker 1: and so so when she was born, I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: let me look at the ears and you're serious. No,

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Speaker 1: I am not kidding. So all of these things come

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Speaker 1: to your mind because growing up in different cultures you

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Speaker 1: learn different different things whatever, those different beliefs, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: and so and so when Lindsey took her first breath

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Speaker 1: before she came out, it kind of shifted me because

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Speaker 1: I had a mindset of things that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: kind of check off. So when she took her breath,

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, okay, now they have to take

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Speaker 1: care of my baby. So they had to get her

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Speaker 1: out of there, take her over into another room, you know,

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Speaker 1: suction her nose and the whole deal. So it just

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Speaker 1: just like Mike said, those emotions continues to just follow

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Speaker 1: your baby and you just want them to be okay.

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Speaker 1: Being in all of male dominated culture football, right, what's

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Speaker 1: been your biggest challenge raising a girl? I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: one I realized just recently. My youngest daughter and three girls,

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Speaker 1: and we're all at the table for dinner, and so

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Speaker 1: we're typically going around the table and everybody say, how

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Speaker 1: is their date? What's happening? Or my youngest daughter she

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Speaker 1: tells she tells a story, but she wants every detail,

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Speaker 1: like and they could take her half an hour. I'm like, sweethearts,

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Speaker 1: you got to speed it up, so everybody else, But

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Speaker 1: it just like having that patience to know how important

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Speaker 1: it is for her to express like the details versus

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Speaker 1: like we get out assignments like hey, let's go, let's go.

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Speaker 1: Are are you finding yourself? You patiently listening outside? But

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Speaker 1: then we're like, can we get the show in the

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Speaker 1: row or something like that. So what was your what's

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Speaker 1: been your challenge? I think for me is that she's

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Speaker 1: like me, so she thinks like me, she acts like me,

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Speaker 1: And it hasn't been uh, it's been up to like

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Speaker 1: I would say, in the last probably six months that

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Speaker 1: we've kind of found a way to communicate because it's

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Speaker 1: almost like I'm communicating with myself, and so whether it's

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Speaker 1: the way that we're going to start a conversation or

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Speaker 1: how we're going to debate. She knows my techniques and

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Speaker 1: I know her techniques, So it's kind of like battling myself.

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Speaker 1: So you you like the Will Smith movie, what just

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Speaker 1: kind of came out somewhere like that the female side.

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Speaker 1: So just in the last day six months, she's a

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Speaker 1: senior in high school. Um, she knows where she's going

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Speaker 1: to college. So we've done all that. We're kind of

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Speaker 1: in that phase of, you know, how do we start

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Speaker 1: to communicate as adults, you know, as she works and

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Speaker 1: has jobs and stuff like that, and so we found

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Speaker 1: a good space to where I need to just be

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Speaker 1: able to listen, you know, so many times as a dad,

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Speaker 1: like I'm trying to prepare her for this big world,

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Speaker 1: and there's things that she's already learned along the way

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Speaker 1: that I just need to listen more and not and

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Speaker 1: talk less. And I think that's helped our communication because, um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not battling myself in the mirror now, I'm listening

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Speaker 1: almost to myself and having a conversation with my daughter

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Speaker 1: and knowing that she is the one that observes. So

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Speaker 1: she she's one that might not talk a lot, but

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Speaker 1: she observes, and so she's learning through that. And so

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Speaker 1: for me, I needed to realize, like, she's she's good,

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Speaker 1: she's ready, and I don't need to talk so much.

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Speaker 1: But now it's time to listen and enjoy this this

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Speaker 1: time um of of before she gets out of the

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Speaker 1: house and starts her own journey. So I would say

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Speaker 1: that's been in the last six months of our evolution.

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Speaker 1: Has anything happened when Lindsay has surprised you? An example

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Speaker 1: what I mean but that my second daughter, who a

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Speaker 1: little more antsy, anxious, and I would wonder, man, when

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Speaker 1: she starts to drive or something like that. Well, she's

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Speaker 1: been one of the best drivers in a family, right,

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Speaker 1: so she kind of surprised me how well she drove

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Speaker 1: and did she went away to college and how well

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Speaker 1: she did away because I was wondering how she would do,

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Speaker 1: how she would have adapted. Anything Lindsay has surprised you,

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Speaker 1: Maybe she has really surprised me in a lot of

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Speaker 1: different ways. I started dating my daughter when she was

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Speaker 1: two years old. Alright, explain that, well, and there's what

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Speaker 1: fun do you want? You will come back to one

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Speaker 1: of the one of the reasons I started dating my

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Speaker 1: daughter is that. So when Lindsay was born, I said,

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Speaker 1: I want to be a better dad that my dad

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Speaker 1: was to my sisters. Okay, I grew up with two sisters,

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Speaker 1: to biological sisters and a half sister, And I said,

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Speaker 1: how do I become a better dad that my dad was?

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Speaker 1: Seriously like, that was my focus. I said, I want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that she understands that when she looks

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Speaker 1: at me, I'm the first man that she dates. I

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Speaker 1: am the first man that my daughter days, You're the standard.

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Speaker 1: I'm the standard. And so how do I want her

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Speaker 1: to continue to evaluate and to assess her relationships moving forward.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to set the pace for that. And

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Speaker 1: so I remember I started dating her when she was little,

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Speaker 1: and then she started wanting clothes for our days. She's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to wear this for for my day

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Speaker 1: with dad. And so we would go out and we

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Speaker 1: would go to our movies and and we would have

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Speaker 1: instances where I'll have her head done and then we

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Speaker 1: get to the place and she's back there with her

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Speaker 1: hair all up in her hand, and I'm like, Lindsey

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? We get ready go into the

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Speaker 1: restaurant and so, you know, so who set the presidents.

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Speaker 1: They just set the stage and her expectations for being

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Speaker 1: in relationships to me, and so that was very important.

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Speaker 1: I started doing it when she was almost two years old.

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Speaker 1: The surprise and he's surprised. You know what the surprise

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Speaker 1: was About three months ago she was asked to go

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Speaker 1: to Paris to model for social media. And you know,

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Speaker 1: she's an influencer on on social media and and how

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Speaker 1: many followers she has almost she has almost six hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand followers. Yeah, so she has almost six hundred thousand followers.

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Speaker 1: She was asked to go to Paris, and she was like, damn,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. And I'm thinking like, okay, I have

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Speaker 1: some secret servicemen that I know. I'm gonna have them

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Speaker 1: watch her get off the plane and then I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: have to track your phone. And man, she handled it

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Speaker 1: like a pro and and I just had to I

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Speaker 1: had to sit back and I think, inc it's almost

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Speaker 1: like the word says, raised a kid up the way

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Speaker 1: they should go. If they go away from there, come back,

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Speaker 1: I think, what what we have to do? It like

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Speaker 1: Mike is saying, we have to trust what we put

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Speaker 1: in we and we have to also trust that the

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Speaker 1: father isn't more controlled than we are. Sometimes we think

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Speaker 1: we're really in control, and the fathers like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: you're not right, and he has them. So that was

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Speaker 1: just so she handled it like a pro. That's good.

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Speaker 1: Both of you guys have athletes. So, Mike, what trade

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Speaker 1: does your daughter have in her athletic lane similar to yours.

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Speaker 1: I think it's um wanting to win and in the

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Speaker 1: part of being a perfectionist at the craft that we've

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Speaker 1: done so UM for a number of years she played

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Speaker 1: volleyball UM, and just her the way that she attacked it,

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Speaker 1: the way that she would bring other people along with her,

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Speaker 1: UM is something that I would see in myself. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had conversations. I think UM as a father,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes we try to UM imprint them with

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Speaker 1: us and our DNA. They have our DNA, but like

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Speaker 1: our fingerprint on them. And so I I as a father,

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Speaker 1: had to learn also that she might do it differently,

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Speaker 1: or she might do this differently. And the thing about

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Speaker 1: being athletic UM was that she had some of the abilities,

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Speaker 1: but there there came a point to where she was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do this anymore, right, And she

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Speaker 1: had her career path. She knew what she wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: she knew what she wanted to to grow up and

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Speaker 1: go off to do, and so some of the athletics

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Speaker 1: was kind of interferen And so as a father of

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Speaker 1: growing up and playing multiple sports, I had to come

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Speaker 1: to grips with that that that's okay and and that

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Speaker 1: I needed to do that. How did you come to

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Speaker 1: grips to it? I think I think it's inside. It

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Speaker 1: was like, at the end of the day, she's healthy.

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Speaker 1: And if if a kid can tell you what they

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Speaker 1: want to do, I think as a parent, that's half

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Speaker 1: the battle. So then that allows me to support them

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Speaker 1: whatever they want to do, versus trying to force feed them.

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Speaker 1: And hey, I was a baseball player. My kid needs

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Speaker 1: to go to college and play baseball. Um, it was

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Speaker 1: supporting her and what she wanted to do, just like

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do what she wanted to do, Just

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Speaker 1: like there was somebody out there to supporting me when

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Speaker 1: I wanted to play football and invested in me. And

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Speaker 1: so that's when the switch turn and said look and

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Speaker 1: she knows what she wants to do, she knows where

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Speaker 1: she wants to go to school. How can now I

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Speaker 1: use my resources to help her in her endeavor and

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Speaker 1: not be my endeavor? How did you handled Lindsey heaven

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Speaker 1: over six d thousand followers, most famous than you? You

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Speaker 1: know what? I actually love it, right? Um? I celebrate

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Speaker 1: her as much as I can. Um. You know, I

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Speaker 1: am a disciplinarian by nature, but I just I love it.

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Speaker 1: I support her and everything that she's ever done. And

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, just like what Mike

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Speaker 1: is saying, we want to make sure and I've met

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Speaker 1: your daughters, you know, we want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day that they feel supported,

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Speaker 1: that they feel heard, and that they feel valued, and

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Speaker 1: that they understand their worth. Like we it is our

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Speaker 1: job sometimes to make them feel that they have worth

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Speaker 1: in this world. And I think at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, we just have to continue to celebrate where

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Speaker 1: they are. How did you guys coach your daughters or

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Speaker 1: did you coach your daughters? Um? So, just like you, So,

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Speaker 1: Lindsey wanted to cheer in the fifth grade, and so

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Speaker 1: she said, hey, Dad, I want to go out for

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Speaker 1: children out like no, not chilling, but in my hand

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Speaker 1: this sound effects did you well you like like that

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Speaker 1: inside right? I learned so but but so so so

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Speaker 1: she didn't know how to do real cart wheels and nothing.

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Speaker 1: So I remember literally we did cart wheels every night.

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Speaker 1: We did cart wheels every night. I had her jumping

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Speaker 1: off both suit balls to do splits in there. The

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Speaker 1: whole thing. I just just like what you said. We

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Speaker 1: had to coach our daughters and the same thing went

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Speaker 1: all the way through college. Man, all the way through college. Well,

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Speaker 1: the oldest one she played volleyball, so the wife did that,

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Speaker 1: so there were some coaching techniques there. She played basketball,

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Speaker 1: so I you know, coached there. My youngest one, uh

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Speaker 1: did cross country and so neither one of us had

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Speaker 1: done cross country, so it was new to both of us,

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Speaker 1: which was actually good because we couldn't tell her what

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Speaker 1: to do, and so she learned on her own in

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Speaker 1: a good way with our support. But um, and now

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Speaker 1: she jumped in the chair again. Neither one of us

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Speaker 1: exposed to that. So this has been new to all

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Speaker 1: of us. Were in some new chartered territory because like

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Speaker 1: Leonard said, with the cheers, like it could be weight

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Speaker 1: all day and they go and right there for like

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Speaker 1: a minute thirty seconds. And we're down in Atlanta and

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Speaker 1: we just spent the whole weekend for a minute thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: So there's some adjustments going on with us, but again

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Speaker 1: she loves it. So we're there in some capacity to

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Speaker 1: support her. And there's I have a story, so lindsay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Lindsey went to Georgia chech to run track when

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Speaker 1: I'm trying scholarship the whole thing. Her first track meet

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Speaker 1: was at Vanderbilt, and she didn't know I was gonna come.

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Speaker 1: So I surprised her and drove the Vanderbilt from Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sitting. So I'm sitting in the stands and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at her, and she caused my phone. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what is she doing? She caused my phone. She's over

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Speaker 1: in the corner. She goes, hey, Dad, Now she has

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Speaker 1: no idea. I'm looking at that. You're there, right, What

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Speaker 1: should I do to warm up? Now? I've been training

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Speaker 1: her my whole life. She already has been training with

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Speaker 1: the coaches, but she trusting my training initially, and I said, hey, baby,

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Speaker 1: you have to trust your coaching. I didn't tell I

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Speaker 1: told you have to trust your coaching, And I said,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I mean the stands looking at you

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Speaker 1: in the corner. And she started laughing, and so I

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Speaker 1: had to release her. I had to release her from

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Speaker 1: me at that moment where you have to trust your coaching,

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Speaker 1: like they know what you're doing. Final question for legends

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Speaker 1: that don't have girls, what did What do you wish

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Speaker 1: they could experience? Letter understanding the importance of the emotional

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Speaker 1: awareness that needs to exist with happening a daughter. The

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Speaker 1: emotional emotional awareness, the emotional engagement exactly of what he

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Speaker 1: needs as far as emotionally to be an active listener,

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Speaker 1: an emotional engager to where he is. Uh. He's engaging

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Speaker 1: with a certain level of sensitivity uh and empathy, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I think it it takes him back to his

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Speaker 1: mom and it allows her to be able to see

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Speaker 1: something totally different than him as a man. But you might,

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Speaker 1: I agree with Leonard said, with the with the empathy

401
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: and the emotion part, because with my first girl, it

402
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Speaker 1: was a mindset if we never have another child. Um,

403
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Speaker 1: she was my girl, she was my boy, she was

404
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: she was all that wrapped up in one and I

405
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Speaker 1: think looking back, that's kind of how I treated her,

406
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Speaker 1: was like my boy, and that might be why she's

407
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Speaker 1: kind of like me. And so with my third girl,

408
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: I mean with with my youngest girl, UM, that relationship

409
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: is different and that emotional piece, like Leonard was talking

410
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Speaker 1: about from me being a male being able to tap

411
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Speaker 1: into that and having to switch gears and to understand that, Um,

412
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Speaker 1: it isn't one size fits all. So when I grew up,

413
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Speaker 1: there was three boys in the house and a younger sister,

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Speaker 1: So there wasn't a lot of interaction with my sister,

415
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Speaker 1: you know, So I didn't get a lot of that

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Speaker 1: emotional side of me that the girls have pulled out

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Speaker 1: of me as as a father. UM that I think

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Speaker 1: that has made me a better person, um overall overall,

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Speaker 1: and when I'm in the workplace, when I'm interacting, um

420
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Speaker 1: with with females and and UM, that's helped me out personally.

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Speaker 1: I know that that last question. But something came to

422
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Speaker 1: my mind when or if your daughter ever tuned you

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Speaker 1: out when I get that moment like whatever that letter, UM,

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00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: when when I'm talking too much and I'm not listening,

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Speaker 1: are you aware that she's yes, yes out? You can

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00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: you can tell like if like if if there's a

427
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: little extended time and not returning text messages and like

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00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: return my text message, what's wrong with you? I will

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Speaker 1: stop paying for stuff right now. So you have to

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Speaker 1: throw out a little threast. But but probably when when

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Speaker 1: I'm not listening and I and I really just she

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Speaker 1: just needs my presence. Sometimes all they need is your presence,

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Speaker 1: not your words. They don't need your words. It's been great.

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Speaker 1: Man who does legends were talking about our girls, our

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Speaker 1: girls girls. That doesn't get any bee doesn't get better.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Leonard, Thank you Mike. That's been amazing. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening in the best is you have to come.

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Speaker 1: This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback

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Speaker 1: or request the topic for discussion, email us at NFL

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Speaker 1: Legends at NFL dot com. SA