WEBVTT - The E-Waste Problem 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.160 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:14.440 Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome up Forward Thinking, the 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.000 podcast that looks at the future. It says driving speaking simultaneously. 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.960 This should be illegal for everyone but me. I'm John Strickland, 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.840 and I'm Joe McCormick, and our other regular host, Lauren 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.000 voc Obama is not with us today, but she will 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.040 be back again next time. Okay, Jonathan, I got a 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:36.680 scenario for you. Hit me. You drop your Android device 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.720 in the toilet. Okay, this is frightening, Lee, similar to 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.280 something that actually did happen to me last month ago. Ahead, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.159 you fish it out of the toilet. It doesn't work. No, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.440 it don't work no more. You try, you try all 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:50.920 the tricks, you put it in a bag of rice, 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.200 to do all that stuff. It's just it's good. It's yeah, 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.320 it's so you go get you a new one. Sure, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:57.840 but what do you do with the old one? I'll 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.400 just toss it out the door, don't I out the window? Yeah, 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:04.680 you know, just you know, to let it be free. Gone. 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.800 A little Enjroid Way goes to live on a farm 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.560 with a bunch of us, along with all of my 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.160 other gadgets, like my entire Tway six hundred is out there. 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.280 They're gonna all have a grand old time. Yeah. You know, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.080 our lives are just full of amazing technology that we 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.400 sometimes we take it for granted. We we just do 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.880 not have the correct level of appreciation for what our 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:29.319 devices can do. I actually, today, literally the day we're 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.039 recording this, there was a moment where I was I 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:37.640 was um swiping through my Twitter feed and watching as 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.080 videos were auto playing with no no sound. But we're 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.399 auto playing the video as I'm going through, holding this 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.400 device in my hand and thinking, when I was a kid, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.760 we would never even dream that our computers would be 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.720 able to do this, much less something that I can 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.360 hold in my hand and carry around with me everywhere. 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.200 So once in a while we have those moments or 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.160 we have that realization of wow, this is amazing. But 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.320 I agree, most of the time it's just this thing 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.639 that we have. But despite how amazing these devices are, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:12.639 they all, you know, they come to an end of 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.399 term at some point. They break that whether you drop 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.720 them in a toilet or it's just time to upgrade, 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.760 you know. So I've got some kind of slow Yeah, 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.480 I've got some stuff I want to talk about as 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.360 far as that goes. So, according to a Gallop survey 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.440 that was done in of Americans upgrade their smartphones as 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.919 soon as their provider allows for it, which is usually 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:39.280 every two years UM, about two percent will upgrade before 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.800 that time. I bet a lot of them. This is 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.760 just wild. Guess are big fans of a company that 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:51.600 rhymes with schmapple um just because Apple comes out with 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.880 a new iPhone every year. This is anecdotal, so it's 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.200 completely worthless. But I do know people who will buy 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:02.320 the latest iPhone every year rather than wait out the 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.760 two years that typically most people would go with. I 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.000 don't even know what's the difference. What what? What's the 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.520 latest iPhone got that the one before it didn't have 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:16.440 pixels like more of them and they're better. So yeah, 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.280 processor tends to be faster, it tends to be thinner. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.840 The screen size usually there's some difference in that, though 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:27.000 it doesn't necessarily always get larger each generation, but the 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:31.480 last one, the iPhone six plus sterre did so. At 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.920 any rate, You've got some folks who are replacing these 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.200 devices pretty quickly, which leads to the question what happens 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.480 to the old ones, but that's just phones. Total cost 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.360 of ownership studies actually suggest that you should replace your 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:49.400 computer about every four years because, yeah, because your computer 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.160 will gradually get less and less efficient over time. It 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:57.600 just happens, because that's what happens with electronics. You'll also 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:02.360 be able to run fewer pro grams because they will 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:06.840 require greater power or greater capabilities than your old piece 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.800 of crap machine can do. So I don't even know 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.000 why you hang onto that thing. You need to you 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.240 need to put it out the pasture along with my 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.480 old android phone. What is this? Uh? This is uh 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.839 pages law right? Yeah, yeah, there are a couple of 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.280 different ones that play into this. But yes, uh that 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:30.000 as a as processors become faster, software becomes slower. Yeah, well, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.000 because if you have the ability, like you suddenly think, oh, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.440 I've got all this extra power, I can build in 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.560 all these features that before we're making the computer grind 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.159 to a halt, but now we'll just go at a 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:45.080 very slow trudge. Um So also, after I just had 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.600 a weird thought, sorry, at what point will will our 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.279 hardware be so fast that people won't even bother to 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.560 remove malware? It's just like, ah, you know, that's just 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.440 the only two percent of my process. It will be fine. Um. 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.320 I guess it depends on how efficient the malware is. 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:04.000 But most PCs are designed to last about five years. 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.040 Um that you know, that's just the way that they're 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.720 being built. And you can have a PC last much 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.400 longer than that. Uh. I think the PC I own 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.960 is getting up there, but I don't have a huge 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.799 pressing need to upgrade to something better just yet. Still, 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.520 I know that that will one day happen. Um. And 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.360 then we often find ourselves in a world where we're 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.760 encouraged to re replace or augment the stuff we have 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.279 with new stuff. I mean, that's kind of that consumerist approach. Uh. 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.880 It's everything you see in advertising. Plus, we're getting into 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.520 a world where more and more smart devices are are 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:50.080 becoming available, everything from light bulbs to major appliances and 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:55.120 and everything in between. Um. And this ultimately starts to 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.120 create a really big problem that we've kind of alluded to. 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.159 What do you do with the old stuff, whether it's 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.719 broken or it's just outdated, it's obsolete, What do you 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.080 do with it? How can you dispose of that responsibly? 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.360 Because as it turns out, this stuff is, it's got 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.640 some nasty elements in it. Yeah. So this has been 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.040 referred to, I guess in the media as the e 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.800 waste problem, the electronic waste problem, and it's a little 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.760 bit different than our standard waste problem. I guess you 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.560 could say it's a subset of it, but it has 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.960 some different concerns. Uh So, of course, the standard waste 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.599 problems are, you know, you've got stuff you don't want anymore. 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.000 You can't keep it in your house, so you get 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.560 you put it in the garbage garbage garbage carriers come 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.880 and take it away, and they take it somewhere and 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.320 you don't have to deal with it anymore. But you 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.640 better hope that when they take it away, it's being 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.640 dealt with in a way that's not creating more problems 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.320 for your society, for the planet we live on, and 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.839 just just being a nuisance in general. Yeah. So, in 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.719 other words, it might just go to a landfill. Some 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.800 of it could end up getting incinerated, and considering some 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.760 of the stuff that's in electronics, that can be bad 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.560 because it can release those toxins into the atmosphere, into 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.160 the local water supply. You can start doing serious damaged 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.840 to ecosystems, to people, it's a real issue. And so 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.480 when talking specifically about electronic waste, these old devices, there 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.800 are some materials you will often find in them. Yeah, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.040 and and this is where we really have to pay attention, right. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.760 These are things that you don't want to have a 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.640 lot of extensive contact with if you have the choice. 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.880 And you might think, well, how much could how much 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.160 toxic material could my smartphone have inside of it? Truth 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.000 is very little, It's not a whole lot, But you've 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.280 gotta take this all as a whole. These are there. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.440 There are thousands upon thousands of electronic devices being disposed 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.680 of every year. We'll get into those numbers in a minute, right, 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.600 And and from depending upon who you believe, more than 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.160 half of it ends up going to landfills, which means 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:08.640 potentially also to incinerators, and that creates some big issues. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.680 If you've got a lot of this stuff being ground 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.360 up and burned, you could have some real nasty chemicals 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.000 released into the environment. So that includes lead, which we 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:22.000 know is not great. Right, So lead toxicity can affect 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:26.720 every organ system in our bodies in some way. Lead 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.239 can inhibit or mimic the actions of calcium and interact 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.480 with proteins, so then it gets incorporated into us. And 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.960 the nervous system is particularly vulnerable and lead exposure can 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:41.640 cause neurological damage, particularly in children. So it's definitely something 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.480 to be concerned about. There's also not as much as 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.360 there used to be, but there's some mercury in a 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:51.559 lot of electronics. Since the move from lamp bulb type 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.360 technology to LED technology, there's less mercury, but there's still 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.320 some in a lot of electronics. Mercury is also toxic 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.160 to the nervous system. It's also toxic to the digestive 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.520 system and the immune system, and it can cause blindness, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.160 muscle weakness, impaired movement, and lots of other neurological effects. Oh, 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.560 that's not good because I take mercury to ward off vampireism. Well, 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:17.040 I here's the good news. It's working. I guarantee you 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:21.120 haven't suffered any of the effects of vampiresm since you 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:26.320 started taking mercury um. There's also arsenic, which, uh, you know, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.320 not just a poisonous a carson carcinogen um. It's associated 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.520 with lots of different types of cancer, and it's also 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.800 a neurotoxin. Uh, there's beryllium. An. Exposure to brillium is 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.520 typically pretty minimal for most of us, but continued exposure 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.680 it can lead to health problems ranging from skin diseases 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.960 to acute beryllium disease, which it's a lot like pneumonia. 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.959 It's a respiratory thing um and also lung cancer, although 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.079 exposure to brillium leading to lung cancer is pretty rare, 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.000 but it can happen. Then you have a whole class 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.640 of chemicals that fall under the category rominadd flame retardants. 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.760 Two really bad things about this stuff, right, Some of 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:15.240 it is incredibly hazardous to our health and can lead 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:20.600 to memory and learning problems, thyroid disruption, reduced fertility, advanced puberty, 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:25.400 and yet delayed mental and physical development, uh, particularly in 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.440 p b d e S, a subclass of this stuff. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.880 The other problem some people claim that it doesn't really 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.200 make stuff more flame retardants, so it's meant to do 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.559 the specific thing, and it may not do it particularly 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.960 well and also comes with these health risks. Now, not 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:50.880 all of the the subclasses under romanade flame retardants are 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.800 equally hazardous, and some of them are much more um 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.120 much less likely to leach out of their their you know, 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.320 whatever material they're they're mixed in with. But it's still 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:07.600 a concern. Now, there are other concerns about about what's 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:12.000 contained in electronic ways that are not just based on poisons. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.880 I mean, there's the example of rare earth materials. You know, 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.480 these are things that are highly valuable and each individual 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.920 device might not have very much in them, but when 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.320 you consider how much of this stuff we get rid of, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.360 it's kind of a shame that we're just putting all 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.679 of these rare elements to waste and throwing them in 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.199 a landfill when they could be used for more technology 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.040 or science. You can also find stuff like gold or 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.200 sometimes silver, and some of these electronic devices. Um, yeah, 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:45.600 there's copper, there's steel. There's stuff that can be uh 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.440 reused if you were able to take it out of 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:53.040 the electronic device. So there is some value there. Um, 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.760 it's uh the question that then comes down to how 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.559 expensive is it to get the stuff out exactly versus 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.240 how much is it works? And this is going to 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.320 be one of the problems when we talk about how 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.800 you recycle these things exactly. So let's before we get 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.280 into that, though, we should probably look at some scope like, 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.320 how is this a big enough deal? Why are we 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.199 even doing a podcast about it? Is it something that 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.400 has been overhyped by certain media outlets? What what's the 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.640 real scoop? Well, Jonathan, it seems like you may have 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.000 had the same experience I had, which was seeing a 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.240 bunch of different numbers thrown around. Well. Yeah, part of 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.280 the problem is that if you start doing is just 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.120 preliminary research on this topic, a lot of hits you're 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.000 going to receive. Ralph the Bat are coming from various 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:43.920 advocacy groups that are arguing for more responsible stewardship of 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.400 our electronics right and which I completely agree with. By 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:52.360 the way, I completely agree with their their agenda. What 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.040 makes me worry is that the statistics they cite may 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.640 or may not be grounded in what I like to 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.000 refer to as reality. Uh it may be, but it 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:03.840 may not be. So what you want to do is 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.240 try and find as unbiased a source as possible to 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.520 kind of get a feel for how big is this problem? 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:16.000 Because uh, not that anyone necessarily is consciously trying to 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.560 tweak the numbers one way or the other. But if 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.160 you go with someone who doesn't have an outright agenda 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.160 on the subject. Do you feel a little more comfortable 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.640 with the numbers that they cite. So one of the 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.400 reports I read was actually it was something that Wired 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.520 had had posted in an article, but they were citing 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.200 a report from Markets and Markets, which is a research 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.000 firm that in eleven, the world generated forty one and 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:46.560 a half million tons of electronic waste between and going 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:54.480 straight into landfills. So that's I mean, that's huge and 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.960 and not good for all the reasons we just talked 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:58.760 about with all the toxics, not to mention just a 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:03.120 waste of those materials we could reclaim and use elsewhere. Yeah, 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.240 now you have another number here, which was one of 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.320 the ones I cited when I was looking into this. 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.319 It was the UH the United Nations University Estimate that 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.800 put together a report UH that in they said the 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.480 number was about forty two million tons. I think it 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.520 was forty one point eight or forty one point something 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.920 million metric tons, so just a little bit more than 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.280 what the two thousand and eleven number was, which means 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:32.000 it stayed fairly consistent. UM. But they also calculated that 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.320 the consumption for new electronics amounted to fifty eight million 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.400 tons in twelve, meaning we're bringing on more and more. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.680 And so when you start looking at that um that 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.080 life cycle that you know, two years for forty four 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.680 two years for a phone for percent of the people 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.400 in the United States who are buying phones, or four 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.200 or five years for computers, and you start thinking, well, 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.400 our consumption levels are growing, therefore our waste numbers are 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.320 going to grow within the next f years. Now, Jonathan, 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.640 here's something maybe you could comment on from experience talking 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.080 about these trends in tech stuff. Not only are we 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.720 incorporating more devices, but do you think devices are typically 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:19.320 getting shorter lives. I want to say yes. It behooves 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.360 a company to convince consumers to buy the newest thing, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.520 because that's how companies make money. Of Course, you don't 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.640 want them having the thought that the last time they 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.480 bought something from you, it didn't work for a long time, right, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.440 which I think is I think two years is that 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.040 sweet spot for a lot of phones. I think Apple 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.640 hit on something where they had they got that even 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.840 more rapid group of consumers, the super fans for Apple 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.440 who are willing to pay the extra amount of money 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.600 it would take to upgrade yearly as opposed to every 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.360 two years. But that's rare, right. I think two years 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.400 is the sweet spot for smartphones for a number of reasons, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.600 one of which is that that gives an of time 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:06.560 for advances in hardware and software. Two turn whatever was 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.080 that you had from two years ago, uh, into being 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.400 either less useful or maybe even completely obsolete. So, for example, 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.440 you may find out that the phone you have, While 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.880 you love that phone, it can't support any of the 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.240 more recent upbring system updates and the one that it's 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.400 on is no longer being supported. That's a problem, right, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.600 because any new app coming out may not work on 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.520 your device anymore. You have an incentive to go an upgrade. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.000 And part of this, I think is is driven by 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.840 the market. I think part of it's driven by consumer behavior. Uh. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.640 I don't think anyone necessarily. I don't think there's like 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.800 a cabal meeting behind the scenes at at cell phone 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.960 or computer companies saying so, how frequently do you think 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.480 we can make them buy a new phone? Like, I 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.240 don't think that's happening, um, but I'm sure that it's 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.040 played apart. Right. It's it's a trend that I have 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:05.280 seen and when we get into these new electronics stuff 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.119 that is meant to work into like the automated households 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.359 or the Internet of Things, you run into more of 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.040 that risk because what happens if the company you go 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.080 with ends up not being able to make it and 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.000 suddenly like the stuff you have has limited functionality, it 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:27.160 doesn't function with other stuff that is still being supported 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.760 in the market. So if I go and buy, you know, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.520 some home automation stuff from Company A, and Company A 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.639 goes out of business and Company B is still in 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.719 business and they do the same sort of stuff and 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.440 can complete whatever project I had to automate my home, 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.959 it may mean they have to buy all new things 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.200 because Company B stuff isn't going to communicate with Company 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.440 ACE stuff which I already have installed in my house, 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.080 which means I gotta get rid of all that stuff 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.800 I had already bought, and that creates more e waste. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.240 These are the sort of things that play in. It's 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.400 not just the lifespan of the electronics, it's the lifespan 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:05.320 of the parent companies that make the stuff, right, So 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.919 we have a lot of different forces at play that 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.200 turn these electronics into trash. From the eyes of the 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.840 person who buys it pretty quickly, like there's an amazing 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:21.560 churn rate. And all of this obviously tells us that 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.080 this is something we need to pay attention to. How 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.040 can we deal with our electronic waste in a responsible way? 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.280 And one of the biggest challenges is making sure that 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:37.320 countries that are part of the developing world don't suffer 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.800 uh while the rest of us are figuring out how 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.240 to manage this waste. Right, because we're seeing around the 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.320 world where countries like in Africa, for example, are leap 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.520 frogging technologies. They don't they're not going with landline systems 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:59.000 because to cover the continent in telephone cables would take 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.919 a really long time. Their leapfrogging are already available, right, 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:07.080 they're leap frogging directly to cell phones. So because they're 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.760 doing that, they they're jumping ahead. Uh, they're jumping faster 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.880 than they have the capacity to deal with the consequences, 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:17.920 Like what do you do with e waste when you're 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.760 generating it? And if it's a country that doesn't have 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:25.760 very strong health and safety regulations or waste management policies, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.359 then there's a real danger that that stuff could be 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.399 disposed of in a way that poses a threat to 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.000 the environment and to the people who live there. And uh, 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.560 we're seeing that happen a lot um And in fact, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.399 we're seeing also in the United Nations University study that 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.080 there are a lot of countries that are dealing with 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:50.159 us not just irresponsibly but illegally, including developed nations that 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:55.600 are shipping stuff from the developed nations to developing nations. Essentially, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.320 the way it works is, I've got a whole bunch 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.119 of e waste, right I run a recycling program in 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.560 the United States. It don't really this is a hypothetical situation. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.440 But I run a recycling program, and I have determined 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.840 that the stuff I'm bringing in it actually costs me 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.560 too much money to really recycle it and reclaim those materials, 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.880 and I would be losing money on the on the proposition. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.440 So but if you could pay people a very low 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.159 wage to get the materials out of it, you might 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.520 be able to make more money. Or if I could 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.000 just sell it to a country and the country says 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.760 we will pay you x amount per however much weight 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.160 of electronics. You got those for free, or I got 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.480 those for free by running this recycling program. Because people 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.680 are sending me their stuff. I'm getting this free resource 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.959 that I can then sell to some other outlet, and 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:57.120 they might use a very um shady approach to reclaiming 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:02.119 the materials inside those phones, which are ultimately harmful to 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.440 the people who live there. Now, this could actually amount 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.159 to big money industry over time, especially you know, one 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.040 of those research firms we mentioned earlier, Markets and Markets 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.359 had a prediction about how much money would be going 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.720 into the e waste industry in the coming years, five 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.479 billion dollar industry by and when you think about this 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.480 is dealing with garbage, right, dealing with stuff that people 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:31.400 don't want, five billion dollar industry. It's not making something, 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.679 it's not producing something new, and most it's reclaiming stuff 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:41.200 that's already inside existing products. So let's talk a little 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.119 bit about the responsible ways to deal with electronic waste. 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.639 Because I'm not suggesting to people, Hey, the stuff you've got, 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.639 it's good enough. Stop. I'm not going to tell people that. 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.679 But I am going to tell people look into ways 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:00.920 to dispose of your electronics in a responsible manner so 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:06.080 that you have as little negative impact on others as possible. Okay, 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.719 so first method, just pile up the electronics in your 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:13.399 basement or garage and never look at it again. I 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.679 can tell you that I based upon I just I 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.119 just recently, as of like last night, did a big 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.760 reord thing in my garage. Came across a bunch of 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:28.199 boxes that had cell phones that probably dated from the 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.800 maybe the early two thousand's, like the big brick ones, 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.320 the candy bar type. And I can tell you that, um, 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.920 that only works for a while, essentially turns your home 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.040 into a landfill, so you probably don't want to keep 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.879 that up. But reusing is the ideal situation, right exactly. Yeah, 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.240 if the electronic device is still in working order or 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:58.560 it can be repaired easily, relatively easily, then donating that 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:02.760 to a sir of us that takes in old electronics 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.040 and then UH issues them to two people who need 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.880 them that can be really helpful. Like there's one here 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.480 in the United States where you can donate it and 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.719 it's a it'll go to someone in the military along 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.040 with prepaid phone cards so that they can make phone 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.720 calls back home while they're deployed around the world, which 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.880 is a pretty noble thing, right. There's some that will 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:29.840 end up UH delivering working cell phones to um two 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.640 people in different parts of the world where there are 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:35.879 cell services, but there's not a lot of actual phone 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.280 technology there yet. In other words, you're getting phones to 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:42.920 people who need them but can't have access to them easily. 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:48.640 That's ideal, right, Uh. And in large operations that that 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:52.359 do this sort of stuff, typically it involves employing people 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:57.359 to clean, assess, and repair electronics. And because of there's 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.919