WEBVTT - Accidentally Brave w/ Maddie Corman 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:04.720 Welcome to Go, Ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.360 Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. When I have 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.120 been with friends and that happened and I paid my pants, 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.800 I did lose the room, they did leave. I saw 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:16.599 her light up and I was like, I'm just going 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.480 to work. But we are here until one of our 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:21.919 last reps. I was just the one that was meant 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:23.640 to take care of mamma. It's for me to remember 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.639 every single day is that I always have a choice. 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:31.600 Everyone always has a choice. Whenever somebody says no, you can't, 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.640 or there's no rules for you, or you have to 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.640 look like this, I go. I'll show you. I'll show you. 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.720 Welcome to Go, ask Allie. I'm Alli Wentworth. You know 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.000 I've talked about stories. I like to dig into this 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.840 being a master class where I get to learn about 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.360 people and their experiences and their stories. I had a 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.720 conversation with my guest today before we started the podcast, 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:01.400 and one of the things I talked to her about 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:03.840 was the fact that she gets a lot of hate 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.360 and people get triggered by her story. So it's important 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.280 to say that within our conversation, we'll be talking about 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.559 child pornography, and addiction. So I just wanted to send 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.920 out a warning to all of you listeners that this 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.520 conversation can be very difficult and for some people it 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.080 might bring up a lot of rage and a lot 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:28.000 of feelings. Maddie Corman is an actor, teacher, and writer 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:29.920 and listen, if you grew up in the nineteen eighties, 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.919 you definitely saw her as a teenager in Seven Minutes 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.200 in Heaven in some kind of wonderful. Since then, she 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.720 stayed incredibly busy in TV and film and theater on 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.200 Broadway and off. Maddie also wrote and starred in a 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.240 full length play based on her life called Accidentally Brave, 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.720 which has been filmed by producer director Steven Soderberg, and 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.600 for her play, Maddie was nominated for the Outer Critics 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.800 Circle Award and when the Off Broadway Alliance Award for 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:03.240 Best Solo Performance. So, Maddie, first of all, I'm I'm 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.880 so happy to see your face. I came to see 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:11.000 your play Accidentally Brave off Broadway, and I was so 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.720 moved by it. I was so affected by it. Um, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.440 we didn't know each other before that, and after I 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.360 saw the play, I stayed till the end because I 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.400 wanted to hug you, and I pushed aside all your 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.440 other friends so that I could get in in front 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:35.040 of the line. Um, before we go into it, if 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.359 you feel comfortable, yeah, why don't you tell the story? 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:44.440 Is if you're telling the story of accidentally brave okay. Um. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.359 You know I'll start by saying, I've now told the 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.799 story a lot of times, and yet here we are, 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:51.799 seven years later, and I have to take a deep 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.000 breath and I feel it in my stomach before I've 0:02:55.040 --> 0:03:01.119 even started. And that's just what telling this particular story is. UM. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:07.080 About seven plus years ago now, I was living in Westchester, 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:15.239 living a very nice looking life, three great, difficult, hilarious children, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.160 a dog and a cat, husband who was not only 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:26.359 sexy to me, but had a sexy job. And I 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.800 worked occasionally. I'm an actress, among other things. Um. I 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.800 had a semi great career where I worked but was 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.840 also able to be with the kids and family and 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.880 friends and all the all the things that looked really 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:46.040 good on Facebook and Instagram. And I was summer. My boys. 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.600 I have twin boys who were eleven at the time, 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.440 and they had just just gotten home from sleepaway camp. Um. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.160 But I had an early morning shoot. So I was 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.320 in my car, actually left the house before anybody woke up, 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.560 which was very rare and very delightful. And so I 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.240 was in the car and my phone rang at five am, 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.400 and I was always already almost to work, and it 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.040 was my daughter calling, which was very already. It was like, 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.560 something's up because it's summer and it's five am. And 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.520 just the scream that I heard, Um, I knew immediately 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:29.760 something was very, very very wrong. And she let me 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.760 know when I could understand her. I couldn't even understand 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.920 her at first, but the police were in my house, 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:40.080 our house, and they were I didn't I didn't understand 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.000 at the time what was happening, and neither did she. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.520 I said, hang on, sweetheart, let me just call your dad. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.799 And I was like, what the hell is going on, babe? 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:51.920 Like nothing, I honestly had no idea what could possibly 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.279 be going on? And he said I can't talk, and 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.320 I was like, I mean you can't talk? Yeah, I 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.640 mean what? And then the police got on the phone 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.680 with me and said, um, we have reason to believe 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.560 there's material on a computer. I could barely even understand, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.400 but at that point it became clear that there was 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:16.440 something illegal, perhaps on our computers, and they were taking them. 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.640 And then it became clear that my husband was being arrested. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.719 And I still didn't understand what it was. UM. I 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.839 won't go through the whole story because we don't have time, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.080 but I actually went to work. I kept going, which 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.920 is a little bit insane looking back, but I didn't 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.839 really understand. Still, my brother, thank god, was living really 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.640 close by and came and got my kids. I sent 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:47.720 my dad over to go help my husband and bring 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.359 him to a lawyer. And I still was like, this 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:56.440 must be some crazy kind of mistake. And uh, he 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:03.719 was arrested for downloading images of child pornography. And that 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:11.799 is the beginning of my story, the story, our story. UM. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.880 I will say that within twenty four hours of finding 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.680 this information out, it was in the newspaper. And just 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:24.320 to have the worst thing that's ever happened happen in 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.000 real time and have it be public and digesting that 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.919 and managing that and figuring things out while the world 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:40.320 is watching, UM is something that I don't wish upon anyone. 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:46.839 But that's what happened, and and that began a very long, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:54.320 arduous process of trying to trying to keep my kids okay, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:07:00.320 trying to honestly keep my husband alive, even though in 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.040 those moments I didn't know who he was or what 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.560 was going to happen to our marriage or him or anything. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.400 I am maybe because I lost my own mother when 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.960 I was sixteen, I just had a feeling that and 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.640 I still have this feeling that where there is breath, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:23.880 there is hope, where someone is alive, there is room, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.560 there's a very For me, there was a very poignant 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.480 point in your play. And as I said at the beginning, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:37.040 your play has been um filmed by Steven Soderbergh, so 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.160 people will be able to if they haven't seen the play, 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.560 they will be able to kind of have this journey 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:45.960 with you when they see it. But there's a moment 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.560 in the play where you go to rehab with your husband, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.360 still very conflicted, still trying to catch up with the 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.320 new reality that's your life. He went to rehab, and 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.000 then at one point during rehab there's something called family 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.560 Week where they invite the wives to come for five days. 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:09.320 And you said something which was very funny but yet 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.040 very insightful, which was you said, I see the people 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.000 that are visiting the alcoholics and the drug addicts. Why 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.240 did we have to get the bad addiction? Why couldn't 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.560 we get one of the cool ones? Really really, but 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.960 you forget, particularly living in our culture, that addiction shows 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.080 itself in many forms, and so you know, sex addiction 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.920 is an addiction like alcoholism. And for me being in 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.400 the audience, that sort of sort of changed the road 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.920 I was going down with you. And I want to 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.840 say now at this point in our conversation that he 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:52.520 downloaded some images. He's never touched a child. There's been 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.040 no so it's that's to me, that's an important distinction. 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.080 It's a very important distinction. And I'd also like to 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.400 say that it's a really difficult thing to talk about, 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.320 and I know there are people, um who are that's it. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.080 We can't even have the discussion. It's too upsetting, it's 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.160 too clearly horrible. I want to be really clear and 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.320 say I think child pornography is horrible. My husband thinks 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.080 child pornography is horrible. There's no one that thinks what 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.840 he looked at is in any way okay or a 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.520 small thing, or that there are no victims. There are 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.920 actual victims of child pornography, and I think about the 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:36.319 victims all the time. There are organizations that help, and 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.760 REIGN is one of them, and I happen to now 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.760 have a lot of experience learning about sex addiction. And 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.280 one of the reasons I want to talk about it 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.720 is because nobody does talk about it. And yes, everyone 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.640 has their boundaries, and there are people who are very 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.040 very quick and loud to tell me that they would 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.400 never ever ever stay because spoiler alert, I am still 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.880 married to my husband, UM and that seems to be 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.640 the big headline in your life. Sure, that's the sexy 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.960 story to talk about. But I want to be really 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.920 clear before we go on. Yes, there was never any 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:20.760 physical touching of any child or person outside of my marriage, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.120 and there was also never any contact because that's another 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.160 really big thing is that it's very easy on the 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:32.760 internet to um have intriguing with people, conversations with people 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.800 that was not part of my husband's acting out behavior. 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.400 And there are people who I'm not even saying that 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.400 I have a judgment about people who do whatever, but 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:49.480 in my particular case, for me, that was a very 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:54.480 important distinction early on, and while I was in no 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.559 way thrilled to hear that my husband was looking at 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.480 absolutely horrifying images. And I'm still all not okay with it. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.120 There's never been anything in me that says that's okay. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.400 But that is what happened. And that was an important, um, 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:13.120 an important thing to learn because I didn't know, quite honestly. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:14.680 And I do talk about this in the show, and 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.000 I've talked about it with you. I didn't know my 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.560 husband was looking at any pornography. And I'm not I'm 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.240 not a super religious person. I live in and around 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.400 New York, I'm I'm in the entertainment industry. I'm aware 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.880 of a lot of things. And yet that was not 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.760 a part of our marriage. That was not a part 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.560 of something we talked about. It was a very very 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:40.720 very hidden thing for my husband. And as I learned 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:46.160 at Family Week and beyond, there is um a kind 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.079 of addiction to pornography where what gave you your hit 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:55.280 doesn't work anymore and uh. And I also learned at 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:56.960 Family Week, which by the way, I wasn't going to 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.080 go to at all because I was so furious. And 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.240 I also said, my kids have been completely traumatized. Now 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.960 their mom's going to take off no way, And I 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:12.600 had very wise, wonderful people around me saying, you've got 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.719 to go. You've got to go for your kids, you've 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.920 got to go for yourself. This is part of the 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.880 healing and you need to see what's going on. And 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.720 I still wasn't going to go. And then my daughter, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.760 who was sixteen at the time, said to me, well, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.720 didn't you make a vow to love dad and sickness 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:37.560 and in health? Dad's sick? And you know that was 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:41.920 pretty tough to um to argue with. That's a strong statement. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.760 She's really amazing. She's probably mad right now that I'm 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.079 even mentioning her, but she's amazing. Um. I don't think 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:54.040 she knew, but she gave me the fortitude to keep 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.200 going and go and go to that place where I 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.280 was able to also fall apart, quite honestly, because I 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.200 had been trying to hold it together for my kids, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.280 for the world, and suddenly I was in the desert 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.480 in Arizona and very privileged by the way. I understand 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.800 that not everybody has that opportunity. But there was no 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.200 one around except these other ladies who were married to 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.199 other kinds of sex addicts, and I was like, well, 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.520 what do I care? What they think. It turns out 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:29.720 they were some of the most incredible, funny, smart, empathic, religious, interesting, 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:35.400 just fascinating women. And that actually was incredibly important in 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.880 my own you know, I don't like the word journey, 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.520 but um, but being in the desert and being not 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.200 around anyone who knew you, especially my kids, anyone who 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.319 knew me, but also especially my kids, I just didn't 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.719 want them to to see. I'm sure they did. I'm 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.520 sure it wasn't as good as I think I was 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.760 at holding it together, but I didn't want to scream 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.680 and fall on the floor. And I did get to 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.680 do that, um, And I got to feel sad and 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.680 green and all the things that I just didn't have 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.560 a moment to feel because there was the house was 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.000 on fire. You know, there's no there's no talking about 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.840 what the meaning of this is morally or financially. There 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.120 was just no time I was I was actually trying 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.640 to keep things from falling down. And so in the desert. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.240 The other thing I learned from not my husband telling me, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.200 because I don't think I could have ever believed him 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:32.440 or listened, but very trained doctors saying talking about addiction, 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.360 which I know about, and I believe, but I didn't 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.480 believe in sex addiction because that just felt like a 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.720 really it felt like a joke or an excuse for 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:45.120 bad behavior. But here were these doctors saying, listen, we 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.560 believe that addicts are sick people, not bad people, and 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.760 that the worst thing you've done is not what defines you, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.800 and the worst thing you've looked at in terms of 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.320 pornography is not necessarily what you actually want to do 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.520 in real life. And these were things that I needed 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:06.360 to hear in order to even begin to consider being married. 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.520 And they also said to me, along with a very 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.640 wise therapist, let's not figure out whether you're staying married 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.480 or not right now, because the last thing you have 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:20.000 the you can't even wrap your head around Wednesday. Let's 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.960 just put a pin in that and try to get 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.920 through the next six months and then we'll we'll meet again. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.440 It's not you're It wasn't like I was going to 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.440 go on the dating sites, you know, in the next 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:36.000 ten minutes. And I had a really long, mostly good 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.440 marriage that had been happening for twenty years, and three 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:45.040 kids who loved and love their dad very very much, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.160 and our families very in meshed I don't think that 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.040 allows you to stay no matter what, but it certainly 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:56.720 gave me pause when I didn't know what I wanted. 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.600 I knew I didn't want I didn't want to to aside, 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.120 and then maybe I stayed for another part of that, 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.960 for the kids to be to get their feet on 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.080 the ground, and then I got some extra time to 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.960 see what was happening, to see what this man that 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:18.640 I loved so much, so much, who was he? Was 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:23.280 that all a lie or was there an actual compulsion 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:28.240 that could be treated? Well. It's interesting because if I 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.400 told your story to somebody on the street, their initial 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.800 reaction would be, well, she left him, right, And there's 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.680 there's an anger that comes out when people go, well, 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:44.160 why didn't she leave him? Which is to me, the 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:50.800 reason our culture gets so stunted and so uh polarized 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.160 because we all jumped to conclusions and say, well, she 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.360 should have left him. I have no sympathy for her 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:02.640 because she stayed. But to me, the story of all 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.399 of this is the fact that you didn't leave your 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:14.320 husband because it's much easier to leave any situation. Let's 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:27.679 take a quick break and we're back. So you have 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.280 stayed in this marriage I have, and it has been 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:36.199 incredibly difficult. You have a partner who can't go to 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.040 birthday parties, can't walk the kids to school, all of 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.480 all the limitations that come with that kind of arrest. 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:48.120 And one of the things that you say is yes, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:53.040 I'm still married today. Yeah, they do say that, and 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.520 we have a very different kind of marriage. I would 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.919 say we have a better marriage. We have a marriage 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:02.040 without secrets. We have a marriage that's authentic. We have 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.399 a marriage where I shouldn't have taken this for me 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.119 to learn certain things about myself. But UM, I don't 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.480 wish this certainly on anyone, but there is something about 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.960 having your life blow up that gives you an opportunity 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:22.600 to really look at yourself. And UM, I'm not a martyr. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.679 I'm not a person that says, well, life's over, but 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.320 I'll stick it out for the kids. I actually, um, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.159 I actually have allowed this person that I love to 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:37.520 get well and get better. And I just want to 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.479 make that clear. The reason maybe you've heard me say 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.520 I'm married today and I have a marriage and recovery 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.000 is that I don't have an interest in being with 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.440 a person who says, you know what, So what all 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.160 guys look at that, or yeah, I made a mistake, 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.720 So what That's not who I'm married to, and that's 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:59.360 not what I believe either. Um. I gave a person 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.440 who I believe is a good person an opportunity and 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.960 he has taken that opportunity. And you know, it's been 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.520 seven years when I wrote the show. I wrote it 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.399 really soon after, which seems a little bananas now, but 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.480 one of the reasons I wrote it was there wasn't 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:25.040 anybody talking about this and it was the loneliest time. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.439 And I already mentioned that I lost my mom when 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.600 I was sixteen, which you can imagine was pretty lonely. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.040 So I had I had a place of of trauma 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.440 and loneliness already, but this was a whole other level 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.360 because I just didn't think anybody had ever been through 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.800 this or could even possibly understand. And did you write 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:51.360 it to be as a like cathartic exercise? I mean, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.560 why in that form? Why not dear diary? I mean, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:56.240 why did you decide to write in a play for 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:06.440 when I was on the floor of my bathroom, you know, moaning, sobbing, screaming. Um, 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.840 I was really lost, and someone reached out to me, 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:17.000 who I did not know. And she had read about 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.720 my story in the newspaper, in the New York Post, 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.679 and thank you New York Post, um, including details that 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.680 weren't actually true. But that's a New York Post. That's 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:28.439 and and by the way, I now know that, I'm like, 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.800 oh wow, not everything is true. Um. And she had 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.119 was working with a friend of mine and somehow figured 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.439 out how to get like she found me. This is 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.240 your angel, as you call her in the place, this 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:44.479 is my angel. And she said hi. And I just 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.240 fell to my knees and said hi. And she said, 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.520 my story is not the same as yours, but it's 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.639 close enough. And I'm telling you your kids are going 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.159 to be okay. You're gonna be okay. It's possible. Your 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.240 husband's even gonna be okay. And I'm here and I 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.880 don't feel so sorry for you. I feel sorry with you. 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:10.359 And in that moment everything felt possible. And in the 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.320 ensuing months, as I got up off the floor, I 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.119 would say to her, what can I ever do? And 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:17.840 she said, just pay it forward, just do it for 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.640 someone else. And I think that's when I started writing. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:26.040 I just knew and I didn't I'm not a good 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.679 enough writer. It turns out I'm a good writer. I 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.520 kind of knew that, but I'm not a good enough 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.120 writer to express what I wanted to express and I 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.320 I want. I trusted myself to be able to somehow 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.040 tell the story on a stage, because I wanted just 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.600 to show the messy parts, and I wanted to be 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.439 of service. I really did. As corny as that sounds, 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.159 I wanted to tell my story for all the people 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.879 who I thought needed to hear it. What was a 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:58.720 surprise to me was the people like you, and very 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:02.600 very many others whose stories were nothing like mine, who 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.199 came up to me after the show and said, my 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.800 sister died in a car accident, and overnight my life changed. 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:13.240 My brother is a drug addict. Overnight we got a 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.480 call that changed our life. You know, in a in 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:19.520 a second, what was my foundation fell out from under me. 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:22.000 And it was helpful for me to hear that that 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:23.919 happened to you too. It was helpful for me to 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.600 hear you didn't think you would ever laugh again, because 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.480 when stuff like this happens, you're supposed to be earnest 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.919 and thoughtful all the time. It was helpful to me 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:38.000 to hear that you found a higher power, because even 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.359 my angel was not able to make this better, like 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:45.240 I actually did need something deeper and stronger. So that's 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.399 there too. So I can't tell you exactly when the moment. 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.560 I mean, I certainly wasn't like this would make a 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.919 great show, but there was some part of me that 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:58.600 felt compelled to share it in a way. And I 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:00.399 have a very good friend who you know, one of 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:02.720 my best friends, who's a writer, a really good writer, 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.040 and she saw a very early reading and she said, 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.680 you know, it's beautiful and good for you, and I'm 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:10.320 proud of you. And you know you don't have to 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:12.760 be up there on that stage alone. You could add 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.439 almost like a Greek chorus, who plays because I kind 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.040 of play some of the other characters, and somebody could 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.440 play your husband, and some of the doctors and the neighbors. 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.879 And I said, and she's so brilliant. And I was 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:27.359 far be it from me to not take a note 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.879 from my wonderful writer friend. And I said, I know 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.240 that's not right. I know that part of and I 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.120 hate solo shows. They're so like, come down and see 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:40.800 me sing and dance about my midlife crisis, but I 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:45.160 just knew that being on the stage alone represented what 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.120 it felt like absolutely. So how did your family feel 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:53.679 about it? Uh? Huh, Well, I think my husband lost, 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.159 you know, the right to have too much say. But 0:23:56.320 --> 0:24:00.119 that being said, he and I both very strong. We 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.040 feel that we're as sick as our secrets, and that 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.359 it's important to shine a light on things that are 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.720 in the dark and and the scary things and the 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.560 things that people don't want to talk about. In fact, 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:19.800 I believe that. Look in my experience and now I 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:21.960 have a lot of experience being around people with sex 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.879 addiction and various kinds. There's a lot of childhood trauma. 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:27.960 There's a lot of childhood abuse. And so if we 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.760 just throw people away and say, well, that person did that, 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:33.160 so they must be no good. Let's get rid of them, 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.920 and then we're we've solved the problem, Like we haven't 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:40.200 solved the problem of child pornography by my husband being 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.800 punished for that. I I am. I believe in punishing 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:48.879 people who participate in any way in child pornography, but 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:52.000 it's not going away because we shame people and out people. 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:55.320 There's a really, really big part of our society that 0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:58.119