Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: Republicans nominate another candidate for Speaker, but does he have
Speaker 2: the votes? Welcome to the fastest show in politics. As
Speaker 2: the majority whip Tom Emmer comes out on top after
Speaker 2: several rounds of voting. We're going to have the latest
Speaker 2: from Capitol Hill for you straight ahead, and we'll go
Speaker 2: on the inside with someone who's been there. Denver Riggleman,
Speaker 2: the former Republican congressman from Virginia, will join with insights
Speaker 2: from our signature panel. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano are
Speaker 2: with us Bloomberg Politics contributors. We'll also touch on the
Speaker 2: campaign trail this hour with a new strategy emerging from
Speaker 2: the group No Labels. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where
Speaker 2: we have breaking news in the race for Speaker. Tom Emmer.
Speaker 2: Your a new nominee won the speaker nomination took five
Speaker 2: rounds this year. He got one hundred and seventeen votes.
Speaker 2: Remembering that last night we had nine candidates interested in
Speaker 2: this job, tom Emmer rising to the top as the
Speaker 2: Majority Whip. He had the support of former Speaker Kevin McCarthy,
Speaker 2: and of course majority Whip. With a rolodex like that,
Speaker 2: you know how to get a couple of votes. Here's
Speaker 2: McCarthy earlier having.
Speaker 3: Been the whip, getting the tough votes when passing HR
Speaker 3: one making America Energy Independent, parents Bill of Rights, getting
Speaker 3: the debt ceiling. So he knows the conference well.
Speaker 2: But does the conference want him to be speaker? As
Speaker 2: I mentioned, one hundred and seventeen votes today, not bad,
Speaker 2: but he's got one hundred more to go. You have
Speaker 2: to have two seventeen to make this reel, and we
Speaker 2: may not really know until this actually hits the floor.
Speaker 2: We're also not sure exactly when that is going to happen.
Speaker 2: But we're getting used to this drill, right, We've done
Speaker 2: this a few times by now. This would be the
Speaker 2: third time. Steve'scalise Jim Jordan Tom Emmer, former hockey player
Speaker 2: and coach, as I read on the terminal, with a
Speaker 2: network of connections with individual lawmakers built in his current
Speaker 2: job as chief vote counter, Yes, the Whip, and so
Speaker 2: the next couple of days is going to be pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: You've heard a lot of smart people here, including a
Speaker 2: lot of Republicans, tell us on this program we would
Speaker 2: not have a speaker by the end of the week,
Speaker 2: and so on this Tuesday we project with the help
Speaker 2: of Denver Riggleman, the former Republican Congressman from Virginia's fifth District,
Speaker 2: is with us, and Congressman, it's good to see you.
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on to talk to us today on Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: Happy to speak as a former congressman. Absolutely, we're going
Speaker 2: to have some honest talk here, and what are your
Speaker 2: thoughts on number one, can Tom Emmer close this deal?
Speaker 1: And two?
Speaker 4: How long might it take? So I think, you know,
Speaker 4: even me being a former congressman, I think anybody who
Speaker 4: thinks they can predict Congress and what's going to happen,
Speaker 4: you know, might be smoking some wacky weed. But I
Speaker 4: will tell you this, I think out of everyone, Tom
Speaker 4: might have the best chance. It was promising to see
Speaker 4: somebody who voted to affirm the election and didn't vote
Speaker 4: to object to the electors. I think only two out
Speaker 4: of nine of those running. I think it was him
Speaker 4: and Austin actually voted that way. I do think he
Speaker 4: can make it. He's going to have to make a
Speaker 4: lot of deals, and he's going to have to make
Speaker 4: sure that he's getting some phone call support from Tonald
Speaker 4: Trump in the background. So out of everyone, I think
Speaker 4: his chances are probably best. I'm still not that optimistic,
Speaker 4: to be honest with you. I give it a three
Speaker 4: out of ten that he can get through. That's the
Speaker 4: best that I got. But again, if he can make
Speaker 4: the proper deals and he can actually convince Donald Trump
Speaker 4: to make some calls for him behind the door, he
Speaker 4: might have a chance to pull this out.
Speaker 2: Three out of ten that's pretty tough. But Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: I wonder, may have already been helping him out right.
Speaker 2: We heard that there was reporting Matt Gates was making
Speaker 2: phone calls for Tom Emmer this morning. We know Emmer
Speaker 2: spoke with Trump over the weekend. Is it possible the
Speaker 2: form presidents turning over a new leaf, because all we
Speaker 2: were hearing was he was an never emmer because he
Speaker 2: voted to certify the election.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, I think that people around Trump,
Speaker 4: I don't think they're the brightest sometimes. But the fact
Speaker 4: that it's been almost three weeks or I think we're
Speaker 4: close to three weeks. If I remember that there hasn't
Speaker 4: been a Speaker of the House. We have Israel, we
Speaker 4: have Ukraine, we still have the budget, or we have
Speaker 4: monies that we need to expend or we need to
Speaker 4: appropriate for the continuing working functions of the government. It
Speaker 4: might be that they're reaching a reality that there has
Speaker 4: to be a speaker and right now, this buffoonery, this
Speaker 4: chaos is really hurting their chances for the upcoming election cycle.
Speaker 4: And if Trump doesn't look like that he has some
Speaker 4: kind of hold on what's happening and he's not seen
Speaker 4: the riding on the wall could hurt his presidential aspirations also.
Speaker 4: So I think you get to the law of diminishing returns,
Speaker 4: and half the battle was showing up, So I think
Speaker 4: Tom showing up here at the end might actually serve
Speaker 4: to his benefit because there's desperation in the conference.
Speaker 1: Fascinating.
Speaker 2: I just wonder what impact Donald Trump has at all.
Speaker 2: I mean, he endorsed Jim Jordan, and boy, that didn't
Speaker 2: last very long, you know, and how much of the
Speaker 2: conference answers to him?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: You know, though, here's the thing is, you know, Jordan's
Speaker 4: still got two hundred votes on that first. You know,
Speaker 4: Merry go round, even though you know a lot of
Speaker 4: those people were voting because of fear and really abject
Speaker 4: cowardice at times. I think because that's what happens, right,
Speaker 4: You're reacting to your district, you're reacting to polling, you're
Speaker 4: reacting to your local committees. But I do think he
Speaker 4: still has a lot of sway, and I believe I
Speaker 4: read somewhere. I don't want to take credit for this,
Speaker 4: but it's true that Donald Trump might not be able
Speaker 4: to put you over the finish line, but he can
Speaker 4: certainly certainly bury your chances through rabble rousing. You know
Speaker 4: that that portion of Congress that's completely loyal to him,
Speaker 4: regardless of if it's right or wrong. So I think
Speaker 4: that's the issue that you have, is that you have
Speaker 4: to ride that tight rope of appealing to the election deniers,
Speaker 4: which is absolutely grotesque. But I would even say that,
Speaker 4: but Tom has to So now he has to call
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, he has to do things that might go
Speaker 4: against some type of moral code in order to get
Speaker 4: to the point he needs to be where the Republicans
Speaker 4: can actually govern. I think that's the issue that you
Speaker 4: have is at what point, right, how far do you
Speaker 4: go in order to secure a position like that, especially
Speaker 4: when you're looking at what's happening in the global landscape
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 2: You know, we understood that Tom Emmer had an uphill
Speaker 2: climb because there was some opposition within the Republican Conference
Speaker 2: to his support of a same sex marriage initiative. You
Speaker 2: were cast out in part of the Republican Conference for
Speaker 2: officiating a gay wedding. Is this actually an issue that
Speaker 2: Tom Emmer can maybe help to move the needle on
Speaker 2: inside the Republican Conference.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think I saw Congressman Rick Allen come out against
Speaker 4: Tom ember because of his support of gay rights. I
Speaker 4: think that's absolutely shameful. And I know Rick Allen. I've
Speaker 4: also seen some of his text messages. You know, I
Speaker 4: was also the senior technical advisor for January sixth. So
Speaker 4: I don't know if he's the person you actually want
Speaker 4: to hang your hat on based on his belief systems,
Speaker 4: which could be quite insane. But I do think that
Speaker 4: if Tom gets through this, it should signal that we're okay, right,
Speaker 4: we should have a party that's just small enough to
Speaker 4: fit in the bedroom. And I was cast out because
Speaker 4: of officiating a same sex wedding. I would hope that
Speaker 4: this actually furthers, you know, marriage equality and same sex rights,
Speaker 4: because I think the Republican Party should be about freedom
Speaker 4: of the individual and not this bizarre sort of Christian
Speaker 4: nationalism tilt that they're having right now. So I think
Speaker 4: Tom being on that side is obviously the right side
Speaker 4: of history, and I would hope that that signals some
Speaker 4: kind of push forward for equality across the board. But
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, but looking at
Speaker 4: some of the individuals in the Republican Conference now and
Speaker 4: where they're slanted, I think that's still going to be
Speaker 4: an uphill battle. But Tom being there based on his
Speaker 4: support for equal rights or for equality, I think is
Speaker 4: a very positive thing, and I don't think it really
Speaker 4: changes where the Republican Party has gone right now.
Speaker 2: Sadly, well, where is the Republican Party going? Especially in
Speaker 2: the House. Uh, Congressman, you know more about this than most.
Speaker 2: We talk about the Five Families on the air on
Speaker 2: a regular basis. We certainly know the Crazy Eights, as
Speaker 2: I think Kevin McCarthy likes to refer to them. But
Speaker 2: even if Tom Emmer gets this done, he closes the
Speaker 2: deal while we're still talking. That's just the beginning of
Speaker 2: the hard part, right. I mean, my goodness, how do
Speaker 2: you govern this conference? And will he suffer the same
Speaker 2: fate as Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 4: I feel like anybody who's speaker right now is is
Speaker 4: really the frog and the pot pulling water. Yeah, so it,
Speaker 4: you know, just slowly turns up the heat until they're done.
Speaker 4: They're just gone. And I think Tom making it a
Speaker 4: year would be a miracle if he were to even
Speaker 4: get through. You're you make such a valid point, really
Speaker 4: an intelligent point, is that what happens when you win, Uh,
Speaker 4: Tom is going to be the dog catching the car.
Speaker 4: So I think that's the issue that you have right
Speaker 4: now in the Republican conference.
Speaker 2: Wow, we're looking at a gigantic pool of nose. In
Speaker 2: the words of Jake Sherman, who just posted on Twitter
Speaker 2: from punch Bowl, the roll call vote is over. Twenty
Speaker 2: six House Republicans said they would vote for someone else
Speaker 2: besides Tom Emmer when this goes to the floor. What
Speaker 2: does that tell you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it tells me. I think my three out of
Speaker 4: ten chances were correct. There we are, you know, I
Speaker 4: you know, again, these these individuals are going to vote.
Speaker 4: I've been there. They're looking for deals, but you also
Speaker 4: have true believers. And the issue that you have with
Speaker 4: the Republican Party and where they're going back to your
Speaker 4: original question there, and I apologize because I definitely want
Speaker 4: to answer it. Do you have individuals that aren't based
Speaker 4: on any type of facts based policymaking. They really are
Speaker 4: relying on fantasy or they're really relying on the ignorance
Speaker 4: of their base the way that they're voting, and that
Speaker 4: the way that they're talking, even you know, with media
Speaker 4: and with press, you can't We're to a point in
Speaker 4: our history you can't have election deniers, people who actually
Speaker 4: rejected the electors based on a multitude of conspiracy theories
Speaker 4: that are so outlandish that a six year old wouldn't
Speaker 4: believe them. But you have these individuals that are voting
Speaker 4: based on that mindset for things that really affect the
Speaker 4: United States of America on a global scene, but also
Speaker 4: domestically when it comes to actually moneies and expenditure of
Speaker 4: moneys and what happens to public services. So the Republican Party,
Speaker 4: I think needs to get back to facts base. But
Speaker 4: the fact that you just saw, or what Jake Sherman
Speaker 4: put out there. I think you see people that are
Speaker 4: voting based on a base that's been radicalized and weaponized
Speaker 4: through disinformation. And I think it's going to be very
Speaker 4: difficult for the GOP to turn that around. And I
Speaker 4: think that's why you see the difficulty in getting a speaker,
Speaker 4: because the facts based and the truth based, anybody who
Speaker 4: has any real semblance of wanting to make policy based
Speaker 4: on data are being pushed aside by the fantasy based
Speaker 4: individuals that are in the conference right now. And I
Speaker 4: think that's where the GOP is, and I think it's
Speaker 4: going to go that way for a while.
Speaker 2: Speaking of where the GEOP is, you tweeted this morning
Speaker 2: ahead of all the rounds of voting, seven Republican candidates
Speaker 2: for speaker at that point we had seven for those
Speaker 2: who weren't following too closely, seven Republican candidates for speaker
Speaker 2: supported efforts to overturn the twenty twenty election. You write,
Speaker 2: many of those were my former colleagues in the House.
Speaker 2: My message to them, I saw the data from the
Speaker 2: January sixth Committee. The election was not stolen, denounced Trump
Speaker 2: put people over party. Will Tom Emmer do that.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, Tom was you know, one of
Speaker 4: those few yes in the conference that voted to a ferment.
Speaker 4: I hope that he can. But even with Tom, somebody
Speaker 4: who have known for a while and had real frank
Speaker 4: conversations with, I think it's going to be a very
Speaker 4: difficult battle for him. I think trying to actually rally
Speaker 4: a conference that doesn't want to be rallied, or that
Speaker 4: delights in this type of political you know, political crazy
Speaker 4: making and really is loyal to Trump over constituents and
Speaker 4: what happens in this country. I don't know if Tom.
Speaker 4: I think Tom's going to have amazingly hard, uphill battle
Speaker 4: trying to, I would say, trying to join those factions together.
Speaker 4: I don't think, as you know, William Wallace, you know,
Speaker 4: in the movie Braveheart, you know, said to Robert the
Speaker 4: Bruce unite the clans. I don't think he's going to
Speaker 4: be able to do that. I think it's going to
Speaker 4: be very difficult. I think he is. If he wins,
Speaker 4: he is going to be the proverbial frog in the
Speaker 4: water that's slowly being boiled. I think it's going to
Speaker 4: be very difficult for him to get through and it's
Speaker 4: going to take a master's class in politicking, But sadly
Speaker 4: that means making deals with people that frankly don't want
Speaker 4: to know the truth and would rather base their decision
Speaker 4: making on some kind of bizarre directling to the supernatural
Speaker 4: that they think they have. And I think that's the
Speaker 4: issue Tom's going to have.
Speaker 2: Well you know that. I guess there's another frog in
Speaker 2: a whole different pot of water right now, Congressman, and
Speaker 2: that would be Patrick McHenry, who I know you've also
Speaker 2: worked with and boys the reluctant speaker in this case.
Speaker 2: I guess the question that everyone keeps asking this, you
Speaker 2: know where I'm going If Tom Emmer can't close the deal,
Speaker 2: if nobody gets to two seventeen in a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks here and we're looking at a shutdown, will Patrick
Speaker 2: McHenry be empowered partially with the help of Democrats? I
Speaker 2: suspect to actually put a bill out fo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Patrick, you know, when people came out
Speaker 4: very angry that they were even concerning about some kind
Speaker 4: of what they call the power sharing deal with the Democrats.
Speaker 4: You know, even Patrick, I think you know, laughed pretty
Speaker 4: ruefully when they talked about you know what's going to
Speaker 4: happen to you next? Are you going to be speaker
Speaker 4: when this is all over? You know, I've said that
Speaker 4: the two top people and people have heard me was
Speaker 4: mckenry and Emmer. I still hold it that. I think
Speaker 4: they're the two best choices for the conference. I do
Speaker 4: believe there could be some kind of power broker in
Speaker 4: there are somebody who's been in Congress for a long time,
Speaker 4: like a Morgan Griffith and things like that, that might
Speaker 4: be able to have a chance as sort of a
Speaker 4: caretaker role until twenty twenty four. Which is sad to say,
Speaker 4: but I do believe that mckenry is still the dark
Speaker 4: horse in all of this. I really do. He's an
Speaker 4: effective legislator. He's a chairman of the Financial Services Committee.
Speaker 4: I work with him behind the door. He's incredibly right,
Speaker 4: incredibly intelligent. You know, sometimes I wonder what he's thinking
Speaker 4: with some of the things that he's saying, you know,
Speaker 4: based on trying to ride that lightning with Trump also,
Speaker 4: which is a shame, because I think if you could
Speaker 4: get them off the leash and get them in private
Speaker 4: and get them away from Trump, I think they'd be
Speaker 4: very effective but again, we're in't a party that is
Speaker 4: really beholding the Trump at the end of the day.
Speaker 4: And I still think that I think mckenry is maybe
Speaker 4: the best choice if Emmer doesn't get through. But again,
Speaker 4: you know there's the internal conflicts and battles in the
Speaker 4: conference where mckenry is going to have a tough time.
Speaker 4: I would say with a dozen to fifteen people that
Speaker 4: might be never Patrick also, And I think that's again,
Speaker 4: that's the issue you have, right You're seeing it today
Speaker 4: with Jake Sherman's reporting, and it's not like we haven't
Speaker 4: seen this performance for the last three weeks.
Speaker 2: It's not a surprise, right, Denver Riggelman, What a great conversation.
Speaker 2: I'd like to stay in touch with you here on
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio as we figure out the path forward, and
Speaker 2: we'd love to get you back on as soon as
Speaker 2: we can. I'll meet you at the Silver Back Distill
Speaker 2: maybe next time. Maybe that's a deal, Congressman, think about it.
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We assemble the panel next,
Speaker 2: Rick and Jenior on the way in. We have a nominee.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: So think about all the dysfunction right now in the
Speaker 2: House of Representatives, the fact that we do not have
Speaker 2: a speaker and there still is no real path to
Speaker 2: get one, though we can't tell you if you're just
Speaker 2: showing up today. Republicans have a new nominee. Is Tom Emmer,
Speaker 2: the majority whip. He did get the votes required to
Speaker 2: be called nominee, but he's one hundred short still of
Speaker 2: the two seventeen needed on the floor, and reportedly a
Speaker 2: poll inside the room in that conference meeting today show
Speaker 2: at least twenty six members are prepared to vote against him.
Speaker 2: So this really may not be the answer. So let
Speaker 2: me ask you, with that said a question, how would
Speaker 2: you like this Republican led House to choose the next
Speaker 2: president of the United States. That's what the group Third
Speaker 2: Way is suggesting. We talked to Matt Bennett and Jim
Speaker 2: Castler from Third Way, a Democratic consultancy here in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. That's been working overtime recently to keep a
Speaker 2: No Labels candidate out of the race for president. Let's
Speaker 2: reassemble our panel to talk more about this. Rick Davis
Speaker 2: and Jeanie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors. There's new information out
Speaker 2: there that I'm sure you both read about earlier today
Speaker 2: that there is in fact a poll and a strategy
Speaker 2: inside the group No Labels that is far more precise
Speaker 2: than anything that we've heard of yet. Number One, they
Speaker 2: want to field a Republican at the top of the ticket.
Speaker 2: That's not terribly new, although there was a time we
Speaker 2: were talking about Joe Manchin and focus efforts on what
Speaker 2: they call eight likely swing states. I'm not sure about
Speaker 2: all of them, but they will sound familiar. Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. They're polling, says the only
Speaker 2: clear shot for a win for Joe Biden in those
Speaker 2: states would be Pennsylvania, and we could be in a
Speaker 2: world in which the election is tossed to the House.
Speaker 2: Gdi Shanzena. This is the stuff that keeps Democrats up
Speaker 2: at night.
Speaker 1: How about you?
Speaker 5: This is stunning on so many levels. You know, the
Speaker 5: idea that anybody looking at the House today thinks it's
Speaker 5: a good idea to add to that chaos the vote
Speaker 5: for the president of the United States. I mean, you
Speaker 5: talk about people losing trust in our government, losing trust
Speaker 5: and faith in the system. You add to that the
Speaker 5: idea that the twenty twenty four election is resolved not
Speaker 5: at the ballot box directly or indirectly with the Elletoral College,
Speaker 5: but in the House of Representatives. Wow. I mean, gosh,
Speaker 5: George Santos is still in the House of Representatives. Arguably
Speaker 5: he wouldn't have you know that as much sway in
Speaker 5: a New York situation, but you know, this is who
Speaker 5: we're going to have choose the president. I don't think so.
Speaker 5: It's stunning. Democrats are very, very frustrated by this, given
Speaker 5: the chaos going going on. They should get behind the
Speaker 5: leading candidate, the incumbent, Joe Biden, and move forward. And
Speaker 5: that's how Democrats feel. But the reality is the poll
Speaker 5: show he has a lot of weaknesses, and this is
Speaker 5: where this is coming from.
Speaker 2: Do you agree with Third Ways view? On this rick
Speaker 2: that a third party no labels candidate would in fact
Speaker 2: not only make this difficult for Joe Biden to win
Speaker 2: the presidency, but might even kick it to the House
Speaker 2: of Representatives. Or is that an extreme view.
Speaker 6: That's a pretty extreme view. I mean, but I think
Speaker 6: it's about the point they're trying to make, which is
Speaker 6: how disruptive to the sort of political system, the normal
Speaker 6: two party system that a that are no labels would
Speaker 6: make if they spent eighty million dollars on a campaign
Speaker 6: for somebody who didn't have to go through any kind
Speaker 6: of nomination process. You know, let's say it's Larry Hogan.
Speaker 6: I mean they I think no label thinks, oh, we're
Speaker 6: gonna put a Republican and that will calm everybody down,
Speaker 6: like we're trying to get Donald Trump elected. The reality
Speaker 6: is Larry Hogan is going to attract independent voters. The
Speaker 6: president of the United States, Joe Biden has to have
Speaker 6: independent voters vote for him if he's going to beat
Speaker 6: Donald Trump. We've seen in the Bloomberg polling in these
Speaker 6: same eighth you know, seven states that that without these
Speaker 6: independent voters who are moving around and are kind of
Speaker 6: grumpy voters, right now that that Donald Trump will win
Speaker 6: because grumpy goes grumpy, right, and if they if Joe
Speaker 6: Biden can make them less grumpy, they'll vote for him.
Speaker 6: But that's how he'll win. He cannot win on his
Speaker 6: base alone. And so if you try to actually appeal
Speaker 6: to independent voters, you will one now I get any
Speaker 6: electoral votes and to throw the election to Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: I think the polling screams that out. And the reality
Speaker 6: is that that Ross pro got nineteen percent of the
Speaker 6: vote in twenty nineteen, nineteen ninety two and did not
Speaker 6: get one single electoral vote. So how are they going
Speaker 6: to do that with thinking that they could get less
Speaker 6: votes than he did and somehow win up electoral votes
Speaker 6: to throw it to the House of Representatives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's two weeks ago today. Jeanie Larry
Speaker 2: Hogan himself was here at Bloomberg in Washington. It was
Speaker 2: asked about this but whether he would still consider a
Speaker 2: run for president, just maybe not in the Republican primary.
Speaker 2: Here's what he said.
Speaker 7: If the country is in that bad of shape next spring,
Speaker 7: and those are the two nominees and it looks like
Speaker 7: there's a path, I would have no interest in being
Speaker 7: a spoiler. I don't want to run a race to
Speaker 7: nibble around the edges. If I thought there was a
Speaker 7: path to success to win the race and I just said,
Speaker 7: I wouldn't shut the door. However, I can say or
Speaker 7: I'm still trying to figure that out. But I'm not
Speaker 7: walking away and I'm not willing to give up.
Speaker 2: I'm getting a little bit confused, though, Genie. If this
Speaker 2: is not an actual national candidacy that they have in mind,
Speaker 2: and we've been told that no labels would run a
Speaker 2: candidate after Super Tuesday, If in fact Joe Biden and
Speaker 2: Donald Trump are the two nominees, and it's sure looking
Speaker 2: like it, how do you not be a spoiler if
Speaker 2: you're only going after these eight states?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, they would be labeled they
Speaker 5: would be a spoiler. You know. I think it's important
Speaker 5: to say why this is happening, and the reason it's
Speaker 5: happening is because the Democrats and Republicans are putting up
Speaker 5: candidates that seven out of ten Americans say clearly they
Speaker 5: do not want to be on the top of their tickets.
Speaker 5: People are very disenchanted by both of these candidates. Now
Speaker 5: for Democrats, you know, it's the lesser of two evils
Speaker 5: is Joe Biden, and I'm sure vice versa for some Republicans,
Speaker 5: although not moderates, would be Donald Trump. But these are
Speaker 5: two very unpopular candidates and it is a real shame
Speaker 5: because it is sort of a race to the bottom
Speaker 5: at this point, and any of these third party candidates
Speaker 5: are going to be spoilers. To Rick's point, it is
Speaker 5: really difficult to imagine them getting less of a percentage
Speaker 5: of the vote and more electoral votes than ros Piro got,
Speaker 5: which was a big, fat zero. So the reality is
Speaker 5: you'd be better off working within the system, within the
Speaker 5: party structure to get better candidates on the top of
Speaker 5: the ballot. And if that can't happen, and it is
Speaker 5: getting late early now, we are stuck with these candidates,
Speaker 5: and so it is going to be a real issue
Speaker 5: in which Joe Biden is going to be making the
Speaker 5: case that I am old, but I'm still up to
Speaker 5: the job. And this guy is crazy. And now the
Speaker 5: fourth attorney today who represented him is pleading guilty in Georgia,
Speaker 5: and this is your choice, America. No, by the way,
Speaker 5: he was you know, he has been found guilty of
Speaker 5: rape New York. This is going to be the race
Speaker 5: we're looking at.
Speaker 2: I want to go back to bed Rick Davis, Genie Shanzano.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: House Republicans choose another nominee, Tom Emmer, the majority whip,
Speaker 2: gets his turn. The question is can he get the
Speaker 2: votes on the floor and when will that floor vote happen.
Speaker 2: Welcome to our two of Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew
Speaker 2: in Washington, joined by Kayley Lines and a conversation ahead
Speaker 2: with Congressman Sean Caston, the Democrat from Illinois, will bring
Speaker 2: us his view from the other side of the isle
Speaker 2: and a House that is not functioning and we're not
Speaker 2: sure exactly when it's going to get back to business.
Speaker 2: We'll talk shut down politics and some other matters with
Speaker 2: Nathan Dean Washington and senior analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence will
Speaker 2: be with us, and we've got news on the strike,
Speaker 2: the UA Doubed strike. David Welch will join Bloomberg's Detroit
Speaker 2: bureau chief, Kaylee, It's great to see you. As we
Speaker 2: get into hour two here, we had breaking news in
Speaker 2: the first hour. Tom Emmer is the man of the hour,
Speaker 2: but as we learned last hour twenty six House Republicans
Speaker 2: will not vote for him, So this is over as
Speaker 2: soon as it begins.
Speaker 8: Well, he's going to do the work right trying to
Speaker 8: get some of those votes to flip, just as Jim
Speaker 8: Jordan did and Steve Scalice did before that they were
Speaker 8: unsuccessful in trying to get to that magic number to
Speaker 8: get the gavel. And it just becomes a question now
Speaker 8: of if all of this effort is going to be
Speaker 8: behind closed doors, if this will be sorted out or
Speaker 8: Tom Emmer will try to sort it out before actually
Speaker 8: bringing it to the House floor.
Speaker 2: And apparently this could go on for a long time
Speaker 2: over inside that ways and means committee room. Although now
Speaker 2: I'm seeing punch bowl reporting. Jake Sherman says, House GOP
Speaker 2: on break until four pm. So I guess we get
Speaker 2: a little launch, a little bit of air.
Speaker 8: Take a breather, collect your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is really something. Kevin McCarthy back
Speaker 2: to Tom Emmer. To your point, though Kevin McCarthy couldn't
Speaker 2: get or keep the job, Steve Scalice couldn't get the votes,
Speaker 2: we know Jim Jordan couldn't. McCarthy says, this is different.
Speaker 2: Here's what he said earlier as Republicans prepared to go
Speaker 2: into the vote.
Speaker 3: Having been the whip getting the tough votes when passing
Speaker 3: HR one, making America Energy Independent, parents Bill of Rights,
Speaker 3: getting the debt ceiling. So he knows the conference well.
Speaker 2: Knows the conference well, does the conference know him well?
Speaker 2: We're hearing oppo research now floating around about DUI's people
Speaker 2: are talking about his support for same sex marriage, and
Speaker 2: there are questions about whether that's coming from, as Rick
Speaker 2: Davis put it, Trump inc.
Speaker 8: Well, this is the real question. Is the perceived leader
Speaker 8: of the Republican Party is Donald Trump? And if he
Speaker 8: and Emmer don't have a good relationship, or if he
Speaker 8: would not like to see Emmer have the gavel, does
Speaker 8: he still have the sway within the Republican Party to
Speaker 8: keep it from him. I think that's a question we're
Speaker 8: all asking at this summer.
Speaker 2: And the role that Republicans might play with Democrats. I
Speaker 2: know that this is not always the most popular. But
Speaker 2: you saw Dean Phillips tweet I did earlier on the
Speaker 2: dysfunction on the House, a national and global security issue.
Speaker 2: He writes, I would sit out the speaker vote if
Speaker 2: Tom Emmer will fund our government at negotiated levels, bring
Speaker 2: Ukraine and Israel aid bills to the floor, commit to
Speaker 2: rules changes that make Congress work for the people. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure what the rules changes would be, if that's
Speaker 2: a motion to vacate or something different. But this is important,
Speaker 2: and I wonder how Sean Caston feels about him.
Speaker 4: I do as well.
Speaker 3: Should we ask him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Congressman Shawn cast and the Democrat from Illinois sixth
Speaker 2: District with us from the marble rotunda at the Cannon
Speaker 2: House Office Building. Congressman, thanks for being here. Would you
Speaker 2: follow along with this idea of maybe helping Tom Emmer
Speaker 2: become speaker if those points were met?
Speaker 9: Well, look, the first point, Dean Phillips is a good friend.
Speaker 9: The people send us here to vote. They didn't send
Speaker 9: us here to walk off the floor. So I think
Speaker 9: we have to show with our vote, not we have
Speaker 9: to show what we stand for and what we stand against.
Speaker 9: I think the issue that Dean Rays is a good
Speaker 9: issue that if you look at the people want us
Speaker 9: here to be working, which means that the House has
Speaker 9: to have a speaker. The people want us here to
Speaker 9: fund the government, which means that we have to not
Speaker 9: only pass a continuing resolution, but pass a full government
Speaker 9: funding package, as we did in June when we in
Speaker 9: the debt ceiling bill. The people want us here, you know.
Speaker 9: And frankly, whether they want us or not, we have
Speaker 9: to give aid to Ukraine to protect ourself from Russian aggression.
Speaker 9: We have to make sure that Israel gets said, we
Speaker 9: have to make sure that the communitarian assistance gets to Gaza.
Speaker 9: Everything that I just described has We've had tests. This
Speaker 9: session has passed on the floor with three hundred and
Speaker 9: ten to three hundred and fifteen votes, overwhelming almost all
Speaker 9: the Democrats, I think, every Democrat and all those bills
Speaker 9: and a minority of Republicans. And so I think the
Speaker 9: channel we have now is will the Republican Party decide
Speaker 9: to do what the people want and work with Democrats
Speaker 9: or will the Republican Party continue just to fight with themselves.
Speaker 9: And that's really hard. I know, if they're willing to
Speaker 9: do that, Yes, we are here to do the people's work,
Speaker 9: but they have to be willing to actually to commit
Speaker 9: some to some things that have become, you know, anathema
Speaker 9: within their own caucus.
Speaker 8: Well, Congressman, when you say work with Democrats, I wonder
Speaker 8: what that looks like to you if that's a handful
Speaker 8: of Republicans deciding to vote for Hawking Jeffreys, or if
Speaker 8: that's a handful of Democrats deciding, given everything you just said,
Speaker 8: that you're here to vote and there's important work to
Speaker 8: do that some Democrats decide to vote for Tom Ever,
Speaker 8: so that someone has a speaker in the House can operate.
Speaker 9: I think if we make this a personal issue, we're
Speaker 9: misunderstanding what it We're here ten years from now. Ten
Speaker 9: years ago, no one knew who Tom Emmer was, No
Speaker 9: one knew who Shan Catherton was, No onek who Dean
Speaker 9: Phillips was. We are going to be remembered ten years
Speaker 9: from now by did we do what we were sent
Speaker 9: here today? Did we respect this place that we were
Speaker 9: And for us to do that, it's about not not who,
Speaker 9: but will we have a commitment to someone who will
Speaker 9: do all those things I just mentioned. Hakim Jeffries has
Speaker 9: been very clear that he'll do all that there is
Speaker 9: it's hard to find someone in the Republican caucus who
Speaker 9: has been clear that they will do that, because they're
Speaker 9: they're either they either oppose it, you know, opposed aid
Speaker 9: to Ukraine. They have they voted for a thirty percent
Speaker 9: cut in funding to Israel just a few weeks ago,
Speaker 9: or maybe they support it, but they're afraid to say
Speaker 9: that to their caucus. And that's and that's really hard. Again,
Speaker 9: it's not about the individual, it's will you support someone
Speaker 9: who represents your values on the floor and the values
Speaker 9: that the American people haven't sent us here to carry out.
Speaker 2: So how's this going to work? Then, Congressman, are you
Speaker 2: waiting for word from your leader, from Hakim Jeffreys on
Speaker 2: the way Democrats will handle this to either vote to
Speaker 2: support someone like Tom Emmer or stay away to lower
Speaker 2: the threshold. Well, there'll be a big Democratic family meeting
Speaker 2: around this on how to move forward.
Speaker 9: Well, look, we all we all honor our own values
Speaker 9: as in our own impulses. I've been very clear, I'm
Speaker 9: not going to support anybody who voted to overturn the
Speaker 9: last election. And I have a real problem with Tom
Speaker 9: Emmer for asking the Supreme Court to overturn the last election.
Speaker 9: He did vote correctly on the floor, But to me,
Speaker 9: you know, giving democratic power to someone who voted to
Speaker 9: overthrow our democracy as a bridge too far, that's me personally.
Speaker 2: And so that means none of these candidates, well, none
Speaker 2: of these guys at the moment would make the.
Speaker 9: Great No there are, but there are people in the
Speaker 9: Republican caucus who would, you know. I think that one
Speaker 9: of the comments that really struck with me was Garrett Graves,
Speaker 9: a friend of mine across the Aisle, said a week
Speaker 9: or two ago that he thinks the Republicans are going
Speaker 9: to have to hit rock bottom before they are willing
Speaker 9: to reach across the isle and work with Democrats. And
Speaker 9: you know, someone asked me recently what does that mean?
Speaker 9: And I said, you know, I thought we were already there.
Speaker 9: But maybe that means they have to, you know, nominate
Speaker 9: Speaker Santos. I don't know, but we're left speculating what
Speaker 9: is their definition of the bottom before we're actually going
Speaker 9: to agree to work together.
Speaker 2: You may have just put your finger on it.
Speaker 1: What do you think? Killy?
Speaker 8: Well, and I just wonder if rock bottom means November seventeenth,
Speaker 8: then there's no funding of the government and it's shutting
Speaker 8: down because that would literally just seek government.
Speaker 9: Which is a disaster time, you know. And also keep
Speaker 9: in mind, the only reason why we got to this
Speaker 9: point is because back in June we were going to
Speaker 9: default on our debt. We should have just passed a
Speaker 9: clean debt sealing bill that massive disruption to financial markets,
Speaker 9: you know, shouldn't have to happen. But the Republicans insisted
Speaker 9: on tying that debt limit bill to a spending bill,
Speaker 9: and we then passed a spending bill that locked in
Speaker 9: current levels back in June again with three eleven votes.
Speaker 9: So we know there are the votes on the floor
Speaker 9: to do that. But the question is, is there any
Speaker 9: Republican running for speaker who would commit to honoring the
Speaker 9: agreement that McCarthy made with the President, with Schumer, with
Speaker 9: Mitch McConnell, and then to bringing that bill to the floor.
Speaker 9: We didn't have to get to this ways.
Speaker 8: Yeah, in congressman, I feel like this comes full circle
Speaker 8: to what Representative Phillips was alluding to, agreeing to abide
Speaker 8: by what was negotiated along with bringing Israel and Ukraine
Speaker 8: A to the floor and a number of other measures.
Speaker 8: So as we think about the path forward here while
Speaker 8: we wait to see if Tom Emmery even feels confident
Speaker 8: in going to the floor, how long are you and
Speaker 8: the rest of your caucus prepared to wait this out
Speaker 8: before it's actually time for perhaps Democrats to say, all right,
Speaker 8: let's empower Patrick McHenry.
Speaker 9: Ultimately, the majority decides what comes to the floor. We've
Speaker 9: you know, we've had lots of conversations with friends across
Speaker 9: the aisle, quiet constructive conversations. There are a block of
Speaker 9: Republicans who are talking seriously about bringing that proposal forward
Speaker 9: to empower McHenry, And you know, I think a temporary
Speaker 9: empowering of mister McHenry, you know, in some fashion that
Speaker 9: made sure that we at least did those bare minimum things.
Speaker 9: I think there's probably a path for that, you know,
Speaker 9: subject to seeing what the details are to go and
Speaker 9: get it through. But ultimately we need a real speaker.
Speaker 9: We need the Party of Lincoln to be as committed
Speaker 9: to governance and decency and equality under the law and
Speaker 9: democracy and the peaceful transfer of power as the Democratic
Speaker 9: Party is. Those things shouldn't be partisan, and we need
Speaker 9: to see how they get through that to do not
Speaker 9: just the temporary empowering of mister mcenry, if indeed they
Speaker 9: choose to do that, but committee to making government work.
Speaker 9: And you know, we'll stay here. They know how to
Speaker 9: reach us. Our doors are open. We'll continue to have
Speaker 9: those conversations, but we can't fix their caucus. They have
Speaker 9: to figure out how to do that on their own.
Speaker 2: Well, you sound open minded a congressman to a couple
Speaker 2: of different possible scenarios. I wonder, though, if you think
Speaker 2: that this conversation we're having here, the lack of direction
Speaker 2: in the House, makes a government shut down more likely
Speaker 2: on November seventeenth.
Speaker 9: I think we all are afraid of that possibility. You know,
Speaker 9: we knew when you know, when we passed the temporary
Speaker 9: cr just back on September thirtieth, that November seventeenth was
Speaker 9: not that far away. And you know that the House
Speaker 9: Republicans are still to this date not even brought the
Speaker 9: full slate of funding bills together. The ones that they
Speaker 9: have passed have no chance in the Senate. I would
Speaker 9: remind you that in the last term, when the Democrats
Speaker 9: had the same majority, we brought all of our spending
Speaker 9: bills to the floor by the end of July so
Speaker 9: that we could work with the Senate and get it done.
Speaker 9: Many of those spending bills were passed on a bipartisan basis,
Speaker 9: and none of this happened. And so there's there's really
Speaker 9: no excuse for saying we have a small majority, we
Speaker 9: didn't have time. It's really a question of do you
Speaker 9: have do you have a governing majority and the Republican
Speaker 9: Caucus who's willing to bring this forward? And the fear
Speaker 9: I have an answer to your question of will we
Speaker 9: have a shut done by November seventeenth, is that not
Speaker 9: only do I not know if we have a governing
Speaker 9: majority in the Republican Caucus, but I don't know even
Speaker 9: though who was in the leadership with the Republican Caucus
Speaker 9: right now, who could drive that drive that sled forwards.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well that's a question we're all looking for the
Speaker 8: answer to, Congressman, as there is a very real vacuum
Speaker 8: for the time being. And of course it isn't just
Speaker 8: a question of passing those appropriations bills, trying to keep
Speaker 8: the government funded, but also dealing with a more than
Speaker 8: one hundred billion dollars supplemental funding request from the White House,
Speaker 8: you've talked about Ukraine and Israel aid. Do you think
Speaker 8: there is risk though, in trying to bundle all of
Speaker 8: those together, given there are members of the House, and
Speaker 8: a decent number of them who wouldn't like to see
Speaker 8: any more funding going to Ukraine. Should these be addressed separately?
Speaker 9: I don't know that we have. I don't know that
Speaker 9: we have any other alternatives. You know, if we had
Speaker 9: infinite calendar time, maybe we debate all these bills separately.
Speaker 9: But we have spent ninety four percent of the money
Speaker 9: that has already been authorized for Ukraine has been spent.
Speaker 9: If anyone in this Chamber thinks that they would like
Speaker 9: to see Russia get a free pass to take over country,
Speaker 9: is that they don't like that, they are comfortable with
Speaker 9: the message that that sends to China. I'd like them
Speaker 9: to stand up and say that I cannot believe that
Speaker 9: it is partisan to actually stand up to Russia. That
Speaker 9: the Party of Ronald Reagan, my goodness, is more willing
Speaker 9: to do the bidding of Ladimir Putin. But we have
Speaker 9: to get that done. We have to provide aid to Israel.
Speaker 9: There's no question. Given the horrific attacks on October seventh,
Speaker 9: that we have to provide that. And we also, and
Speaker 9: I say this as someone who represents the largest Palestinian
Speaker 9: community in Illinois, we have got to make sure that
Speaker 9: we provide humanitarian assistance to Gaza because the vast majority
Speaker 9: of the people who live in Gaza are not members
Speaker 9: of Hamas, are not terrorists, are caught up in this
Speaker 9: horrible tragedy. And if we look at those things, the
Speaker 9: tragedy in Israel, the tragedy and gods of the tragedy
Speaker 9: in Ukraine, and say, you know what we should prioritize
Speaker 9: here is whether a couple Republicans prefer the interests of
Speaker 9: Putin or terrorist financing over the interests of those folks
Speaker 9: like we don't deserve to call ourselves Americans, much less
Speaker 9: members of Congress. If that's actually what we want.
Speaker 3: To lie for.
Speaker 8: Well, Congressman, let's address that terror's financing point a bit more,
Speaker 8: because you were one of the signatories on a letter
Speaker 8: that was signed by more than one hundred members of
Speaker 8: both the House and the Senate to Treasury and Jake
Speaker 8: Sullivan talking about HAMAS and the financing of terrorist organizations
Speaker 8: through crypto. What exactly is it that you would like
Speaker 8: to see done here, knowing that a lot of terrorism
Speaker 8: and other illicted activity is financed with US dollars.
Speaker 9: Well, first off, and I know you guys probably can't
Speaker 9: say this, but I want to give a huge shout
Speaker 9: out to Bloomberg reporter zek Fox, who's I think written
Speaker 9: one of the best books out there on understanding the
Speaker 9: crypto ecosystem. So I would give a book recommendation here
Speaker 9: for his book. Number go up.
Speaker 2: He's we passed that alone, please do.
Speaker 9: The issue that we have is that based on State
Speaker 9: Department reporting, and this was the State Department in the
Speaker 9: last administration under Mike Pompeo, they reported that Iran had
Speaker 9: provided HAMAS with roughly one hundred million dollars in funding. Now,
Speaker 9: I think we can zoom given Mike Pompeo's sort of
Speaker 9: maximum pressure campaign on Iran, that he was unlikely to
Speaker 9: understate that number. Maybe he overstated it, but let's give
Speaker 9: him the bend of the doubt and say one hundred
Speaker 9: million dollars. Multiple sources Wall Street General Reuters have reported
Speaker 9: that HAMASA has received potentially as much as one hundred
Speaker 9: and thirty five million in addition to that through cryptographic
Speaker 9: networks and taken advantage of the fact that these cryptosystems
Speaker 9: are basically designed to prevent you from seeing where the
Speaker 9: money comes from, and that is a huge problem. We've
Speaker 9: been in touch with the White House, We've been in
Speaker 9: touch with Treasury. We're going to get a classified briefing
Speaker 9: on this later this week, but we are If we
Speaker 9: are calling out, as we should, Iran's role in financing
Speaker 9: terrorism around the world, we should be calling out the
Speaker 9: crypto industry even louder because they appear to be a
Speaker 9: larger source of this funding. And I do want to
Speaker 9: point out that letter that we sent, which as he
Speaker 9: pointed out, had over one hundred members, was bipartisan in
Speaker 9: the Senate. Lindsey Graham, Roger Marshall We're both on it,
Speaker 9: and Gus Kane as an independent, was on it. In
Speaker 9: the House, it was strictly Democratic support on that in
Speaker 9: spite of us reaching out. And a big part of
Speaker 9: that reason is because Tom Emmer, who we were mentioning before,
Speaker 9: actually introduced and passed a bill through the Financial Services
Speaker 9: Committee to prevent our financial regulators from going after money
Speaker 9: transfers if they are done in cryptographic networks. Warren Davidson
Speaker 9: has passed a similar bill to make it easier to
Speaker 9: traffic money through cryptographic networks, and Patrick McHenry, Speaker pro
Speaker 9: tem chair of the Financial Services Committee, has also supported that.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 9: We've had a real problem getting Republican support in the
Speaker 9: House for something that seems really easy. Let's not use
Speaker 9: financial networks to send money to terrorists, and I'm proud
Speaker 9: that we got one hundred members on that. I think
Speaker 9: the White House has a lot of tools at their disposal.
Speaker 9: I am eager to hear from them later this week
Speaker 9: on what tools they are using, not just at the Treasury,
Speaker 9: but also in our international partners as well, who all
Speaker 9: have a role to play.
Speaker 2: It's good to see you, Congressman. Thanks for spending some
Speaker 2: time with us today. Congressman Sean Caston, Democrat from Illinois
Speaker 2: with US Live from Capitol Hill and Kaylie, We've got
Speaker 2: a good sense now of what's happening in Donald Trump's
Speaker 2: mind today with this Tom Emmer Yeah nomination.
Speaker 8: To vote for it new post on true Social I
Speaker 8: have many wonderful friends wanting to be Speaker of the House.
Speaker 8: Some of them are truly great warriors, Rhino Tom Emmer,
Speaker 8: who I do not know well is not one of them.
Speaker 8: Voting for a globalist rhino like Tom Emmer would be
Speaker 8: a tragic mistake.
Speaker 2: Globalist rhino. So who is Matt Gates calling today? I'm
Speaker 2: getting confused. Thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast.
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