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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey thereon, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast

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Speaker 1: with Me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, we have to start with.

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Speaker 1: Another manager being fired, and of course it's David Martinez

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Speaker 1: from the Washington Nationals and as well the president and

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Speaker 1: GM Mike Rizzo and Joe. I need to point this

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Speaker 1: out as much as I don't like to do it,

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Speaker 1: but have you noticed a pattern with these people who

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Speaker 1: are losing their jobs this year?

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Speaker 3: I have really solid, solidly connected to all of these

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Speaker 3: people I am, and it does it's just tough to watch.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't like when anybody loses their job

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Speaker 3: in anything, right, but when you have this kind of

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Speaker 3: a connection with these different people and they end up

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Speaker 3: getting fired, let go, whatever it is, it's tough to

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Speaker 3: deal with for me internally. I mean, I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of these people and again things happen where you know,

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Speaker 3: we've all been hired to be fired that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: But you know, this situation here, even talked about it

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Speaker 3: yesterday a MLB. I I'd like to know a little

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Speaker 3: bit more about it when it gets down to it.

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Speaker 3: At the end of the day, we have dissected this

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Speaker 3: where a lot of times the manager gets too much

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Speaker 3: blame and not enough the front office, and Riz has

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Speaker 3: done a great job. I mean, the group that they

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Speaker 3: have there right now is pretty impressive. They just haven't

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Speaker 3: gotten to that level yet that everybody thinks they can be.

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Speaker 3: But they will and so then the manager has to

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Speaker 3: eat it. And I really think that. I'm curious if,

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Speaker 3: in fact, Riz did not want to do it, and

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Speaker 3: that's why he just said I'm out too. I'm just

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Speaker 3: curious about that because I think they're I think that

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Speaker 3: could be part of it. So don't like to see it,

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Speaker 3: good friends, It just kind of stinks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just to review for our audience, I think it

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Speaker 1: began with Derek Shelton the Pittsburgh Pirates and he was

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Speaker 1: was he your hitting coach in Tampa?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Tampa Tampa hitting coach late up to twenty ten

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Speaker 3: or so.

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Speaker 1: After that, yes, yeah, And then of course Buddy Black

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Speaker 1: with the Colorado Rockies. You were part of that great

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Speaker 1: angel staff with Buddy Black. You guys go way back then.

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Speaker 1: The next manager fired is Brandon Hyde Baltimore Orioles.

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Speaker 2: Who was part of your staff. With the Chicago Cubs yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: And then we have both Davey Martinez and Mike Rizzo.

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Speaker 1: David Martinez, of course, also one of your coaches. I

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Speaker 1: think you first brought it back to baseball with the Rays,

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Speaker 1: correct after he was done playing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. When I got the job with the Rays, I

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Speaker 3: wanted to incorporate a lot of the former Devil Rays

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Speaker 3: Rays into the situation. I love the tradition of former

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Speaker 3: players being part of it. I had that a bit

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Speaker 3: with the Angels. I thought you Amels had a great alumni,

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Speaker 3: and I want to even though the Devil Rays did

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Speaker 3: not have this wonderful alumni. I wanted to pick and

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Speaker 3: choose among the group. So I wanted Bogsy out there,

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Speaker 3: I wanted Crime Dog out there, but I really wanted

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Speaker 3: Davy out there because I really felt that Davey Martinez

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Speaker 3: pitomized the way the game should have been played. I

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Speaker 3: saw him a lot with the White Sox when I

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Speaker 3: coached against him, so that was it. I didn't really

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Speaker 3: know Davy before that at all, so I had him

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Speaker 3: come on out. At first, he was a little bit reticent,

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Speaker 3: you know, family guy and all that stuff, and then

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Speaker 3: eventually talked him into it, So yeah, all of it.

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Speaker 3: It stings. Listen, we all like we just brought it

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Speaker 3: up and we all know this is going to happen

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Speaker 3: to all of us at some point. But when you're

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Speaker 3: this closely attached to these people, you've been watching it

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Speaker 3: from a distance, it just it never sets well.

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Speaker 1: And then Mike Rizza, of course played for you. That

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Speaker 1: was your first managing gig.

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Speaker 3: That was actually this, Yes, it was the year before

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Speaker 3: I was in Idaho Falls. That was my first year.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty one eighty two, go to Salem for

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Speaker 3: the Salem Angels. We win the Northwest League championship. We

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Speaker 3: had a thirty four and thirty six record. I didn't

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Speaker 3: even try to win the last game to make it

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Speaker 3: five because they wanted to save my pitching. Was that

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Speaker 3: we were already in with thirty four and thirty six

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Speaker 3: thirty five, and riz was part of that group. Rizz

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Speaker 3: was kind of utility player, pugilistic, a fighter even at

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Speaker 3: that time. He started a great fight at home at

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Speaker 3: Chameka the field and Salem versus the I think was

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Speaker 3: the Ben Phillies play at the plate, and honestly it

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Speaker 3: ended up with both teams up against the backstop, you know,

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Speaker 3: with this was not a beautiful baseball stadium, was a

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Speaker 3: junior college field. But nevertheless, a really good guys pressed

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Speaker 3: up against the back of the backstop. There a lot

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Speaker 3: going on and one of those things that kind of

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Speaker 3: galvanized as a group. And riz was always very funny, vocal,

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Speaker 3: played hard. His daddy was a scout. His dad was

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Speaker 3: a scout for the for many years, a major league

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Speaker 3: scout for variety of different teams, and he was connected

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Speaker 3: with Nick Camsic who signed me. Nicky was a legendary

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Speaker 3: Chicago scout, so Rizz was part of that tree. So

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Speaker 3: I've always had this strong affection for Michael two. So

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Speaker 3: again again a lot of this stuff. There are two

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Speaker 3: really good baseball folks, and when you do something like this,

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Speaker 3: I know the record isn't good right now, I get it.

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Speaker 3: But in a situation where you're trying to recoup and

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Speaker 3: rebuild whatever, I think, patience is required. And I know

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Speaker 3: these two guys would have eventually gotten the back to

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Speaker 3: where everybody expects them to be. But it's unfortunate that

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Speaker 3: people are out of patience sometime.

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Speaker 1: Well we'll get into in a minute that that tree

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, and whether there was any more limbs

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Speaker 1: left when you talk about the old scouting and player

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Speaker 1: development tree. I agree with you, Joe, there's probably a

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Speaker 1: lot more behind the scenes here, and we'll get into

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Speaker 1: some of those reasons that may be in play here.

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Speaker 1: But I did get in touch with Riz briefly by texts,

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Speaker 1: and here's what he told me. I had a great run.

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Speaker 1: Proud of what we accomplished here. Goal was to lead

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Speaker 1: a franchise to greatness with honesty, integrity, and professionalism. I

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Speaker 1: feel we did that. The sun will come up again.

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Speaker 1: That sound like Riz one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred percent and honesty, honesty, integrity, and what was the

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Speaker 3: other one of them?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, professionalism?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that kind of to me, that

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Speaker 3: indicates is not willing to wanting to bend or willing

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Speaker 3: to bend to maybe some other methods that people wanted

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Speaker 3: him to employ. Riz is a blunt object. He's straightforward.

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Speaker 3: There's no sugarcoating anything, with which I love. I love

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Speaker 3: those guys. I hate exec you talk. He does not

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Speaker 3: know how to do that. So yeah, there's there's a

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Speaker 3: lot more that lies really below the surface here.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of executive talk, we didn't get much from

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Speaker 1: Mark Lerner, the National's owner, to explain the reasons for

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Speaker 1: this move.

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Speaker 2: He did put out a statement.

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Speaker 1: And briefly, I'll just quote from that statement that he

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Speaker 1: decided a fresh approach and new energy is the best

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Speaker 1: course of action for moving forward. Anytime you hear the

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Speaker 1: phrase moving forward, run there is no moving backward. Time

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Speaker 1: does not stand still and it doesn't go back. There's

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Speaker 1: no need to say moving forward. Life time perpetually move forward.

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Speaker 2: So this is just execut you speak.

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Speaker 1: I do think there's something in play here, Joe in

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Speaker 1: that both Dave Martinez and Mike Rizzo had an option

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Speaker 1: in their contracts, and the option had to be picked

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Speaker 1: up by some point in the middle of this month,

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Speaker 1: possibly at the All Star break. So ownership is looking

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Speaker 1: at two people. Maybe they're not sure of it. The

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Speaker 1: Nationals have had six straight losing seasons so far concluding

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Speaker 1: this year, and had a really tough month of June,

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Speaker 1: which happens even to good teams.

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Speaker 2: I just asked the New York Yankees.

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Speaker 1: And they're coming up on a sort of a deadline

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Speaker 1: here where they decide whether the twenty twenty six options

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Speaker 1: on the manager and the president of Baseball OPS should

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Speaker 1: be picked up.

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Speaker 2: And if you decide at.

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Speaker 1: That point, well we're not sure and we probably are

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Speaker 1: not going to pick it up, you might as well

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Speaker 1: get rid of them.

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Speaker 2: That's the way I look at it now.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why you would negotiate that end to

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Speaker 1: have an option mid year, but apparently it's not that unusual.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of guys Joe, the managers.

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Speaker 1: And I'm assuming president of Baseball OPS don't like going

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Speaker 1: into the possibility of last year of a contract. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know you did it with the Cubs, but you

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Speaker 1: know this could sort of guards against it, but it

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Speaker 1: also creates a pushpoint for ownership when it comes to

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Speaker 1: whether you want to bring that person back next year

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Speaker 1: before the this year is over with. What are your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the option here in the middle of July

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Speaker 1: for both the manager and the and the president of

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Speaker 1: baseball opis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't realize that that is really highly unusual.

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Speaker 3: But I also think it blends or bleeds into the

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Speaker 3: point that risk possibly was asked to get let Davy

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Speaker 3: go and he said he did not want to do

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Speaker 3: it because I think they could have easily they be

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Speaker 3: in the ownership could have seen that if they let

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Speaker 3: the manager go, they could at least pick up bridginess

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Speaker 3: contract based on his history, like you know, drafting and

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Speaker 3: everything he's done there. And maybe they haven't been so

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Speaker 3: good lately, but you look at the talent on the field,

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Speaker 3: how could you argue with that that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So they could have actually parceled that out and thought

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Speaker 3: maybe he was doing, according to them their jaw, his

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Speaker 3: job and that Davy may have fallen a little bit

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Speaker 3: short for them. And I also just want to interject this.

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Speaker 3: A couple of weeks ago, was it that Davy came

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Speaker 3: out and defended his coaching staff, And remember the and

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Speaker 3: the players were slightly offended. And I could easily see

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Speaker 3: some of these younger players as somebody somehow getting the

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Speaker 3: year of this ownership group somewhat one way or another.

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Speaker 3: And eventually I think this bled into it somehow. Also

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Speaker 3: where that's where the new voice, lack of communication, they

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Speaker 3: want however they want to phrase it, you know, new road,

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Speaker 3: new voices, new leadership situation. I think that I think

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Speaker 3: that bled into there somehow, and eventually somebody got wind

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Speaker 3: of this or had wind of it, and then extrapolated

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Speaker 3: from there so I really believe I didn't realize about

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Speaker 3: the option stuff, which I've not heard about in the

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Speaker 3: middle of year. I really believe that they would have

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Speaker 3: picked up Riz and Riz me and the guy that

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Speaker 3: he is and where he's from and the run that

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Speaker 3: he's had, and you can see the writing on the

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Speaker 3: wall that you know, maybe this isn't the right place

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Speaker 3: for him anyway. So there's a lot to unpack, like

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Speaker 3: you're suggesting right there. So unusual, yes, absolutely unusual options

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the year. But I'm betting that

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Speaker 3: Riz was asked to let him go, and Riz was

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Speaker 3: going to be retained, and he said, I don't want that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it could definitely be a possibility, and I may

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Speaker 1: go in a different direction here. I do know this, Joe,

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Speaker 1: that when they the word came out that they were

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Speaker 1: making the changes here, it must have happened so hurriedly.

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Speaker 1: The Nationals did not immediately announce a replacement for Davey Martinez.

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Speaker 2: I found that to be fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Man, this should be a decision that you chew on

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Speaker 1: for a while, and anytime you change managers, you better

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Speaker 1: have what you believe to be a better option, and

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to sleep, monitor or do some more

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Speaker 1: research on it. Will you make a decision and you

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Speaker 1: cut that cord? You better have an answer now. They

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Speaker 1: did name Miguel Cairo the bench coach, which makes sense.

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Speaker 1: You're making a change in the middle of the season.

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Speaker 1: He knows the personnel there, you know, he knows the

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Speaker 1: landscape that he can work with the front office. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing new, there's no change that needs to be made

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Speaker 1: in terms of communication. But that struck me as odd

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Speaker 1: that someone wasn't named immediately.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel the same way.

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Speaker 3: Joe, Yes, absolutely, you know, I saw it pop up

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Speaker 3: and I'm looking, Okay, who's the guy, who's the guy?

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Speaker 3: Who's the guy? And I've always been amazed at that.

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Speaker 3: I've often thought being in a position of possibly, you know,

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Speaker 3: being a GM or whatever leadership situation over the entire organization,

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Speaker 3: don't you constantly think of, like, who's going to be replace

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Speaker 3: you at some point in the event somebody leaves that

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Speaker 3: you don't like the job, performance, whatever, You start making

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Speaker 3: your lists. And I got to know, like days in advance,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I just decided woke up this morning

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden decided to do this. So

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Speaker 3: you're you're mulling over this days in advance, and you

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Speaker 3: have to decide, okay, we do do this? Did the

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Speaker 3: right after you make that announcement, the following announcement occurs,

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Speaker 3: this is what we're going to do to short up

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Speaker 3: right now because the team, obviously it's like a white

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Speaker 3: flag situation. I think I know Miguel. Miguel is wonderful,

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Speaker 3: and him and Dave you were really tight. That's part

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Speaker 3: of it too, Davy and him really tight. And I

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Speaker 3: guess Hickey was retained also, I would imagine the rest

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Speaker 3: of the coaches were staying. Is that true.

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Speaker 1: That's so far that we have not heard any other

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Speaker 1: coaching changes now, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, you got to know in advance what you

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Speaker 3: want to do. And that's again if Riz isn't there

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Speaker 3: to know what to do, because Riz says I'm out. Also,

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Speaker 3: he was the guy that would have had I think

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Speaker 3: of more definitive we're going to do this now. Okay,

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Speaker 3: if Davy's out, we're going to do this. I'd like

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Speaker 3: to do this whatever. They're pretty much without a rudder

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Speaker 3: right now, so it's going to take a little bit

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Speaker 3: of time for them to catch up. I think they

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Speaker 3: set themselves back a bit. Oh listen, I want in

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Speaker 3: the room. I don't know, and there's always reasons to

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Speaker 3: do different things, and maybe I don't know. Maybe it

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Speaker 3: was the right thing to do, but from a distant

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Speaker 3: I just don't see it. And again, yes, I agree

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Speaker 3: with you one thousand percent that you should know what's

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Speaker 3: going to happen next, if, in fact, do you chose

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Speaker 3: to go in this direction as an ownership group.

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Speaker 2: A couple of things about their direction.

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Speaker 1: First of all, we know that, of course, they won

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Speaker 1: the World Series in twenty nineteen. They started nineteen and

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Speaker 1: thirty one, and David Martinez did a great job managing

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Speaker 1: that team. Mike Rizzard did a great job reinventing that

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Speaker 1: bullpen on the fly because it was terrible in the

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Speaker 1: first couple of months of the season. They win the

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Speaker 1: World Series in Washington, DC, toast of the town. It

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Speaker 1: seems like ages ago now. COVID definitely hurt them because

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Speaker 1: they didn't have the chance to get.

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Speaker 2: The spoils of victory, if you.

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Speaker 1: Will, in terms of attendance boost and revenue boost that

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Speaker 1: next year. They'd losing record the next year. But it

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Speaker 1: was such a weird year they were twenty six and

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Speaker 1: thirty four, and that kind of spiraled them in the

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Speaker 1: wrong way. It wound up having the trade guys like

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Speaker 1: surez Er, Turner, Soto, and they still haven't really come

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Speaker 1: out of it. Although the Soto trade with San Diego

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Speaker 1: now is used as a model that Mike Rizzo made

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Speaker 1: as to getting top value when you do have to

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Speaker 1: trade a star player. He certainly has that at the

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Speaker 1: top of his resume. And what he did not do

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Speaker 1: this year, I believe Joe Is didn't really solve the

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Speaker 1: bullpen issue. And it's a poor defensive team and that's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily ready to payroll overall payroll. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: the pay when the payroll in twenty nineteen when the

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Speaker 1: that's one of the World Series was two hundred and

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Speaker 1: three million dollars. The past four years they've been between

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Speaker 1: ninety two and one hundred and thirty two million dollars.

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Speaker 1: They've gone way backward in terms of payroll. So he's

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Speaker 1: had a lot, had a lot less to work with.

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Speaker 1: But what he has not done is solved the defense

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Speaker 1: and the bullpen, which is not necessarily related to high payrolls.

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee probably the best example of that and they just

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Speaker 1: were not playing good baseball in the month of June.

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Speaker 2: So there were pieces there, but just not enough of them.

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Speaker 1: Your take on the Nationals, Joe, and what you see

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Speaker 1: of what they've become here as they try to get

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Speaker 1: themselves back to contention.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean from twenty nineteen to present that is

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Speaker 3: a while. I mean regarding not getting even back to

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Speaker 3: five hundred. But when you talk about the disparity in

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Speaker 3: the payrolls between then and now, that's kind of suspicious

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Speaker 3: to me. They have the trade for Soto spectacular and

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Speaker 3: the guys that they got in returned Woods in particular.

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Speaker 3: I love Gore too. I mean, all these guys are

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Speaker 3: really very They're gonna they're all all star caliber already,

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Speaker 3: great return defensively. I haven't watched them enough to know

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Speaker 3: where their pitfalls are with that, where their shortcomings are.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, when you have this kind of core

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Speaker 3: group and if you permit it, I think to spend

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Speaker 3: more money. And again I not being as closely as

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Speaker 3: you tied to it as I needed to be to

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Speaker 3: meet an intelligent commentary, but it just sounds like with

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Speaker 3: that disparity and the money spent and it's being spent

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Speaker 3: right now. Obviously there's something from top to bottom. Do

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Speaker 3: you trust the fact that risk and pull some rabbits

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Speaker 3: out of the hat and still do what he did

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Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen? Why did you back off so heavily,

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Speaker 3: Like you just suggest that the market after the winning

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Speaker 3: the World Series with twenty twenty popping up, Could it

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Speaker 3: be that injurious even to this point. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's just there's so many problems to be conjectured upon

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Speaker 3: here that you really don't know or understand. I like

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Speaker 3: the group now. I think I think given a little

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Speaker 3: bit more time, they're gonna really round out to something

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Speaker 3: very nice. I think they quite frankly, the fact that

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Speaker 3: the Marlins are doing so well so quickly, things like that,

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Speaker 3: You know, I could see owners that really talk to

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Speaker 3: their buddies, they're drinking buddies, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: they get their information and from different sources other than

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Speaker 3: just relying on the people in charge. Probably were impacted

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Speaker 3: by that somehow. Look at how much they're spending the Marlins,

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Speaker 3: and you're why can't we do the same thing here?

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Speaker 3: Look at the trade with soda. All the great players

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Speaker 3: we got back, so those kind of comps are are made,

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Speaker 3: but not really understanding that. Just give it a little

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Speaker 3: bit more time. You never really understand and realize sometimes

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Speaker 3: how close you are to turning a corner if in

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Speaker 3: fact you give up. So I just don't know enough.

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Speaker 3: But that's what my overall perspective.

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Speaker 1: I like your point, Joe, what you said there about

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Speaker 1: when these owners look around, right, and you mentioned the Marlins,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned the Brewers. It's kind of like you see

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Speaker 1: that shiny new car in the driveway next door, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, huh, I think I want one of those.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a little bit of what's behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes here with the Nationals as well. Let's face it,

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Speaker 1: Davey Martinez and Mike Rizzo are more older school, and

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Speaker 1: I hate to divide things into just old school and

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Speaker 1: new school.

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Speaker 2: It's obviously much more nuanced than that, you know.

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Speaker 1: And Mike was proud of building up the analytics department

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Speaker 1: in Washington. It wasn't like he was just going based

365
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Speaker 1: on scouts recommendations. Nobody does that anymore. In fact, his

366
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Speaker 1: replacement now, Mike de Bartolow, was the guy that he

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Speaker 1: hired and really has an analytics background, and that's.

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Speaker 2: What I think is happening here, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of when the book Moneyball came out,

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Speaker 1: and I know a lot of owners then took that

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Speaker 1: book gave it, and I know Fred Wilpond did this

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Speaker 1: with the Mets, gave it to the general managers and

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Speaker 1: said are we doing this? You know, it was something

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Speaker 1: shiny and new, and they didn't know whether it worked

375
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Speaker 1: or not. And Oakland hadn't won anything, but it sounded interesting,

376
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Speaker 1: and not to say you shouldn't pursue it, but it

377
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Speaker 1: really spread very quickly around the game, and I could

378
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Speaker 1: see that happening here. Mike de Bartolow, the guy he hired,

379
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Speaker 1: actually all the way back in twenty twelve. He started

380
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Speaker 1: out as a baseball ops intern there and just worked

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Speaker 1: his way up to be one of Mike's assistants there

382
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Speaker 1: in Washington. Where did he come from? He went to

383
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Speaker 1: Tufts he with an econ degree. He went to Columbia

384
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Speaker 1: Business School with a masters, and then he took a

385
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Speaker 1: job at something called the equity research firm I'm sorry,

386
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Speaker 1: the equity research department of Northern Pines Capital, LLC, where

387
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Speaker 1: he worked directly with the co portfolio managers of long

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Speaker 1: short equity focused on hedge funds, so that was his

389
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Speaker 1: background to get into baseball, and I think I see

390
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Speaker 1: a lot of that happening, Joe, where the evaluations being made.

391
00:19:03,718 --> 00:19:05,918
Speaker 2: Again, the game is a blend.

392
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Speaker 1: Let's not simplify oversimplify things there, but the background originally

393
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Speaker 1: comes more from the business world than the baseball world,

394
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Speaker 1: and that's where the blending begins.

395
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Speaker 3: Well, and I'm looking at records today because it ties

396
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Speaker 3: into like today's quote. But I don't evenly understand all

397
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Speaker 3: of this. I just wrote it down and I'm just

398
00:19:26,198 --> 00:19:28,558
Speaker 3: trying to piece it together. But as of right now,

399
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Speaker 3: there's fourteen teams under five hundred, and there's only there's

400
00:19:32,718 --> 00:19:36,358
Speaker 3: only seven teams between one and nine games over five hundred.

401
00:19:36,838 --> 00:19:39,638
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's a norm from previous series.

402
00:19:39,678 --> 00:19:41,238
Speaker 3: It just seems kind of low to me that you

403
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Speaker 3: have that many under and there's just a couple that

404
00:19:44,038 --> 00:19:46,518
Speaker 3: are basically just barely over five hundred to go in

405
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Speaker 3: that group. Also, so again, so when you're starting to

406
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Speaker 3: evaluate new school from old school, so is there a

407
00:19:53,158 --> 00:19:56,478
Speaker 3: parody involvement with the new school approach? Everybody wants to

408
00:19:56,518 --> 00:19:58,518
Speaker 3: be the same, same sheet of music, same kind of players,

409
00:19:58,518 --> 00:20:00,798
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, And all of a sudden you

410
00:20:00,798 --> 00:20:06,038
Speaker 3: get this very small elite group group there's ten ten

411
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Speaker 3: plus over five hundred. I got eight teams, and so

412
00:20:08,918 --> 00:20:12,558
Speaker 3: I always by this time, I always worked in increments

413
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Speaker 3: of five. You wanted to get five over, then ten over,

414
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Speaker 3: et cetera, like you got the Detroit. Detroit obviously is

415
00:20:17,798 --> 00:20:19,958
Speaker 3: really the trend set of with twenty four right now,

416
00:20:20,398 --> 00:20:22,878
Speaker 3: and there's like Houston almost there nineteen, et cetera. There's

417
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Speaker 3: there's like this small group that are into that level

418
00:20:26,038 --> 00:20:29,918
Speaker 3: and everybody else is fairly over five hundred or under.

419
00:20:30,158 --> 00:20:34,678
Speaker 3: And so what does that mean regarding systems being implemented

420
00:20:34,718 --> 00:20:38,638
Speaker 3: and employed again the NFL for years under Roselle, they

421
00:20:38,638 --> 00:20:41,718
Speaker 3: wanted this parody system, right, so maybe maybe that's what

422
00:20:41,758 --> 00:20:44,478
Speaker 3: they want. They did. There's a couple of super teams,

423
00:20:44,838 --> 00:20:47,558
Speaker 3: guys that guests have spent some money, but some that

424
00:20:47,638 --> 00:20:50,278
Speaker 3: have not really like you already mentioned the Brewers. But

425
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Speaker 3: so are we the system that we're building right here?

426
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Speaker 3: Is it about parody and average mediocrity or is this

427
00:20:59,478 --> 00:21:03,398
Speaker 3: system really built to last and create a dynastic kind

428
00:21:03,398 --> 00:21:04,198
Speaker 3: of a situation.

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Speaker 1: My answer would be you build teams now to win

430
00:21:06,838 --> 00:21:11,638
Speaker 1: about eighty six games. Yeah, because the great equalizer is

431
00:21:11,678 --> 00:21:16,038
Speaker 1: the postseason now the extra wildcard. So shooting for greatness

432
00:21:16,078 --> 00:21:18,678
Speaker 1: not necessarily rewarded the way it used to be in

433
00:21:18,718 --> 00:21:21,158
Speaker 1: the past, right where you had to build ninety plus

434
00:21:21,158 --> 00:21:23,438
Speaker 1: win team. It's just where the game is at now,

435
00:21:23,558 --> 00:21:25,758
Speaker 1: and it doesn't take much to move a team from

436
00:21:25,758 --> 00:21:28,758
Speaker 1: say seventy eight wins to eighty six wins. And guys

437
00:21:28,798 --> 00:21:30,678
Speaker 1: think you can do that on the margins, and I

438
00:21:30,718 --> 00:21:32,198
Speaker 1: think a lot of cases you can. And if you

439
00:21:32,238 --> 00:21:34,798
Speaker 1: play five hundred baseball for four months, you're in the

440
00:21:34,838 --> 00:21:38,758
Speaker 1: thick of the race. So the stakes in terms of,

441
00:21:39,638 --> 00:21:41,678
Speaker 1: you know, the bar to get into the postseason, it's

442
00:21:41,718 --> 00:21:44,118
Speaker 1: definitely lower. We all know that, and I think that

443
00:21:44,158 --> 00:21:47,158
Speaker 1: has spread kind of thinking around that. Let's just let's

444
00:21:47,278 --> 00:21:50,318
Speaker 1: be okay, let's make sure that you know, for most cases,

445
00:21:50,358 --> 00:21:52,398
Speaker 1: the key is don't have your team out of the

446
00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:55,358
Speaker 1: race after by the time the school lets out, when

447
00:21:55,398 --> 00:21:57,878
Speaker 1: attendance generally begins to pick up in the summer months.

448
00:21:58,238 --> 00:21:59,798
Speaker 2: That's the worst thing in the world. That's what happened

449
00:21:59,838 --> 00:22:00,438
Speaker 2: to Baltimore.

450
00:22:01,398 --> 00:22:03,438
Speaker 1: You want to start selling tickets, as you know, people

451
00:22:03,438 --> 00:22:05,798
Speaker 1: get excited about the summer and to get excited, just

452
00:22:05,838 --> 00:22:07,318
Speaker 1: have a team around five hundred a.

453
00:22:07,358 --> 00:22:09,838
Speaker 3: Race to mediocrity. And that's what I'm saying. So when

454
00:22:09,838 --> 00:22:12,278
Speaker 3: you when you start talking between old school, news school,

455
00:22:12,398 --> 00:22:14,278
Speaker 3: or just let's talk about being in school. For me,

456
00:22:14,358 --> 00:22:18,158
Speaker 3: that would be the ability to utilize everything available to me,

457
00:22:18,278 --> 00:22:21,678
Speaker 3: all the methods, all my experience, and all the old

458
00:22:21,718 --> 00:22:24,998
Speaker 3: tried and truths and combine them with what's what's happening now,

459
00:22:25,038 --> 00:22:27,718
Speaker 3: What's what's what's the church of happening now, what's what's

460
00:22:27,918 --> 00:22:30,718
Speaker 3: what's the new stuff that I can incorporate to try

461
00:22:30,758 --> 00:22:33,358
Speaker 3: to see if I can actually build on all the

462
00:22:33,718 --> 00:22:36,598
Speaker 3: wonderful foundation that I've built for myself. I'm not talking

463
00:22:36,598 --> 00:22:39,758
Speaker 3: about me the group in general, So I don't know.

464
00:22:39,798 --> 00:22:43,118
Speaker 3: Everything's everything's designed to be mediocre, like you said, are

465
00:22:43,158 --> 00:22:46,558
Speaker 3: slightly above mediocre and that and if we if we

466
00:22:46,598 --> 00:22:50,558
Speaker 3: actually hit it, if everything goes right, then then we're

467
00:22:50,638 --> 00:22:54,838
Speaker 3: willing to take the next step. Whatever I I don't get.

468
00:22:54,878 --> 00:22:57,558
Speaker 3: And again, I think we've talked about this the middle

469
00:22:57,558 --> 00:23:00,358
Speaker 3: class in baseball, and you pointed out that maybe that's

470
00:23:00,398 --> 00:23:03,238
Speaker 3: not the case of the situation, but there is there's

471
00:23:03,278 --> 00:23:06,038
Speaker 3: a young guy that really have not spent a lot

472
00:23:06,078 --> 00:23:08,278
Speaker 3: of time in the minor leagues. They're really great athletes,

473
00:23:08,318 --> 00:23:10,358
Speaker 3: but they when it comes down to their baseball acumen,

474
00:23:10,398 --> 00:23:13,238
Speaker 3: it's very it's limited, and the mistakes are made. And

475
00:23:13,518 --> 00:23:16,078
Speaker 3: Washington has probably forced Skystree to get to the big

476
00:23:16,158 --> 00:23:19,118
Speaker 3: leagues to indicate listen, yeah, there's all these young guys

477
00:23:19,118 --> 00:23:22,078
Speaker 3: that we require or we have here. They are so

478
00:23:22,118 --> 00:23:24,958
Speaker 3: that that indicates that it was good because they're not

479
00:23:25,118 --> 00:23:27,878
Speaker 3: spending time in Double A, Triple A learning stuff actually

480
00:23:27,918 --> 00:23:29,758
Speaker 3: on a major league level. And that's why you see

481
00:23:29,838 --> 00:23:33,318
Speaker 3: all of this choreographed extra work before games, because this

482
00:23:33,398 --> 00:23:35,638
Speaker 3: is the stuff that normally occurs on a minor league level.

483
00:23:35,998 --> 00:23:38,838
Speaker 3: It's instructional leagues, spring trainings, but now you're seeing it

484
00:23:38,878 --> 00:23:41,518
Speaker 3: at three o'clock on a major league diamond near you.

485
00:23:42,118 --> 00:23:45,878
Speaker 3: And to me, that least the fatigue and overwork for

486
00:23:45,958 --> 00:23:48,678
Speaker 3: not only the players, the coaches, the training staff, et cetera.

487
00:23:48,958 --> 00:23:52,078
Speaker 3: And I think that's part of mediocrity. So anyway, I

488
00:23:52,278 --> 00:23:53,758
Speaker 3: could go on and on, and I have to write

489
00:23:53,798 --> 00:23:56,118
Speaker 3: it all out to really try to bring it all together.

490
00:23:56,158 --> 00:23:57,478
Speaker 3: But I think these are the kind of things that

491
00:23:57,518 --> 00:24:00,598
Speaker 3: are not discussed, and I think they're a part of

492
00:24:00,678 --> 00:24:03,398
Speaker 3: when you say a team is fundamentally not good, they're

493
00:24:03,438 --> 00:24:07,118
Speaker 3: defense lacking, whatever, it's because of a rush job here

494
00:24:07,158 --> 00:24:10,238
Speaker 3: and they have not had an opportunity to fully develop

495
00:24:10,918 --> 00:24:11,478
Speaker 3: on the vine.

496
00:24:11,718 --> 00:24:13,598
Speaker 1: Well, that's a lot on the Nationals, but there is

497
00:24:13,598 --> 00:24:16,118
Speaker 1: a lot there to unpack. Just to sum up, I

498
00:24:16,158 --> 00:24:18,838
Speaker 1: do think that Davies comments played a role in this

499
00:24:19,078 --> 00:24:21,598
Speaker 1: when he said it's never on the coaching. I think

500
00:24:21,638 --> 00:24:25,198
Speaker 1: the response of players internally, yeah, and the way it

501
00:24:25,238 --> 00:24:27,878
Speaker 1: played externally, even though I thought it was overplayed, but

502
00:24:27,918 --> 00:24:29,998
Speaker 1: it's still you know, it's the world we live in now.

503
00:24:30,478 --> 00:24:31,638
Speaker 2: That was a factor.

504
00:24:31,718 --> 00:24:33,638
Speaker 1: The fact that they had a terrible month of June

505
00:24:33,798 --> 00:24:37,838
Speaker 1: and they're catching their defense, their bullpen have really not progressed,

506
00:24:37,878 --> 00:24:40,438
Speaker 1: and that can make a team look bad. And again

507
00:24:40,478 --> 00:24:43,198
Speaker 1: I think there is a situation here where the Nationals

508
00:24:43,198 --> 00:24:45,438
Speaker 1: did not invest in this team. Let's face it, the

509
00:24:45,518 --> 00:24:48,478
Speaker 1: Lerner family was exploring a sale of the team and

510
00:24:48,518 --> 00:24:51,838
Speaker 1: they didn't think the team was ready to start supplementing

511
00:24:51,878 --> 00:24:54,718
Speaker 1: the core group that they had, and you know, they

512
00:24:54,718 --> 00:24:56,638
Speaker 1: had paid a price with a lack of investment in

513
00:24:56,758 --> 00:24:59,758
Speaker 1: talent at the major league level at least, and then

514
00:24:59,798 --> 00:25:03,278
Speaker 1: moving the team forward, and I think that's an easy

515
00:25:03,278 --> 00:25:05,078
Speaker 1: thing for an owner to do. When you look around,

516
00:25:05,158 --> 00:25:07,078
Speaker 1: you say, maybe we're a little bit behind. We need

517
00:25:07,118 --> 00:25:09,598
Speaker 1: new voices. It does sound like execut you speak, but

518
00:25:09,638 --> 00:25:12,118
Speaker 1: I think here it may apply. That's a lot on

519
00:25:12,198 --> 00:25:15,198
Speaker 1: the national So let's move on, Joe, because after this

520
00:25:15,318 --> 00:25:18,238
Speaker 1: quick break, I want to talk to you about managing

521
00:25:18,318 --> 00:25:20,478
Speaker 1: the All Star Game weeks. The All Star Game coming

522
00:25:20,558 --> 00:25:23,558
Speaker 1: up next week, and I had a quick chat with

523
00:25:23,598 --> 00:25:27,038
Speaker 1: Aaron Boone about his task next week, and I want

524
00:25:27,038 --> 00:25:27,638
Speaker 1: to get your take.

525
00:25:27,678 --> 00:25:30,518
Speaker 2: You've done it before, managing the All Star Game.

526
00:25:30,558 --> 00:25:32,478
Speaker 1: What's it like. We'll talk about that right after this.

527
00:25:45,598 --> 00:25:48,758
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. All Star Game

528
00:25:48,918 --> 00:25:52,918
Speaker 1: in Atlanta coming up next week. And it's funny Joe's

529
00:25:52,918 --> 00:25:55,438
Speaker 1: talking to Aaron Boone the other day, and you know

530
00:25:55,478 --> 00:25:58,158
Speaker 1: the prep work that goes into managing that All Star Game.

531
00:25:58,198 --> 00:26:00,758
Speaker 1: He said he hadn't quite gotten into the weeds yet,

532
00:26:00,798 --> 00:26:03,238
Speaker 1: but he said immediately after the starters.

533
00:26:02,798 --> 00:26:05,278
Speaker 2: Were announced, he started playing around with lineups.

534
00:26:06,238 --> 00:26:08,078
Speaker 1: He said, I'm not sure everything to let me use

535
00:26:08,198 --> 00:26:10,958
Speaker 1: my lineup, but it was fun kind of playing with

536
00:26:10,998 --> 00:26:13,958
Speaker 1: the names and where guys would hit. You've done it before, Joe,

537
00:26:14,398 --> 00:26:16,798
Speaker 1: what's it like managing the All Star Game.

538
00:26:16,998 --> 00:26:18,838
Speaker 3: Well, there's two different All Star games, and one that

539
00:26:18,878 --> 00:26:20,238
Speaker 3: you have to win in the one that you're just

540
00:26:20,278 --> 00:26:23,918
Speaker 3: there showing up. I mean, that's true. I much preferred

541
00:26:24,398 --> 00:26:27,758
Speaker 3: to win. I did. I liked that game, and it's

542
00:26:27,758 --> 00:26:30,838
Speaker 3: a separator from the rest of professional sports for the

543
00:26:30,878 --> 00:26:35,038
Speaker 3: games that become skills competitions or just the farce. Quite frankly, so,

544
00:26:35,438 --> 00:26:37,758
Speaker 3: I'm concerned that this game is eventually going to be

545
00:26:37,798 --> 00:26:40,598
Speaker 3: to devolve into a skills competition. I hope not, but

546
00:26:40,678 --> 00:26:42,278
Speaker 3: I think if you really put the carrot at the

547
00:26:42,358 --> 00:26:45,478
Speaker 3: end of it to win home field advantage. I liked it.

548
00:26:45,558 --> 00:26:47,318
Speaker 3: I do like it. I like every time you play

549
00:26:47,318 --> 00:26:49,998
Speaker 3: a game that it means something Otherwise it's reduced to

550
00:26:49,998 --> 00:26:53,198
Speaker 3: an exhibition game, i e. Spring Training. Now, I know

551
00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:54,918
Speaker 3: for years that's the way it was. I get it.

552
00:26:54,918 --> 00:26:59,038
Speaker 3: But there was solid National League versus an American League

553
00:26:59,918 --> 00:27:03,158
Speaker 3: kind of rivalry going on it. It had a different

554
00:27:03,198 --> 00:27:05,758
Speaker 3: tone and even right down to the fan base. I mean,

555
00:27:05,798 --> 00:27:07,398
Speaker 3: I was a National League guy back in the day,

556
00:27:07,438 --> 00:27:10,158
Speaker 3: Cardinals and all that stuff, and I wanted the National

557
00:27:10,198 --> 00:27:11,798
Speaker 3: League to win and I rooted for them, and it

558
00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:14,678
Speaker 3: was a big deal. But the National League won regardless

559
00:27:14,678 --> 00:27:17,838
Speaker 3: if it was attached to a home field advantage. So

560
00:27:17,838 --> 00:27:20,038
Speaker 3: there's a difference with that, And and then on top

561
00:27:20,078 --> 00:27:22,038
Speaker 3: of that, there was a difference when you had to

562
00:27:22,038 --> 00:27:24,518
Speaker 3: win the game and you're doing it with a national

563
00:27:24,558 --> 00:27:27,878
Speaker 3: league rules at that time, that was a complicated day.

564
00:27:27,918 --> 00:27:30,958
Speaker 3: I sat a long time. The game was in Saint

565
00:27:30,958 --> 00:27:32,638
Speaker 3: Louis in two thousand and nine, so the National League

566
00:27:32,678 --> 00:27:35,118
Speaker 3: rules applied two thousand and three. I was the bench

567
00:27:35,118 --> 00:27:37,558
Speaker 3: coach with Sosh. That was that was the first time

568
00:27:37,598 --> 00:27:40,518
Speaker 3: he counted those where American league rules applied two different

569
00:27:40,558 --> 00:27:43,678
Speaker 3: games again and for me, the day before the game

570
00:27:43,718 --> 00:27:46,158
Speaker 3: in Saint Louis, I walked around the outfield before on

571
00:27:46,198 --> 00:27:48,158
Speaker 3: the workout day, and I went to every relief pitcher

572
00:27:48,518 --> 00:27:50,398
Speaker 3: and told them what game with inning they were going

573
00:27:50,478 --> 00:27:52,718
Speaker 3: to pitch in. And after the game, I get approached

574
00:27:52,718 --> 00:27:54,998
Speaker 3: by Joe Garagioel and somebody else I remember who I's

575
00:27:55,038 --> 00:27:57,398
Speaker 3: saying that the commissioner wants me to start have my

576
00:27:57,478 --> 00:28:00,478
Speaker 3: pitcher a holiday pitch twoinings and not just one. And

577
00:28:00,518 --> 00:28:02,278
Speaker 3: then I had to go out and tell twe days

578
00:28:02,318 --> 00:28:03,838
Speaker 3: that he was not going to pitch the next day

579
00:28:04,238 --> 00:28:06,878
Speaker 3: unless something would happen because I had to test subtract

580
00:28:06,918 --> 00:28:10,158
Speaker 3: one relief pitcher because now I have to go tunings

581
00:28:10,198 --> 00:28:12,118
Speaker 3: with my starter, so that all this stuff's going on,

582
00:28:12,318 --> 00:28:14,838
Speaker 3: and then you have to make replacements when somebody gets hurt,

583
00:28:15,038 --> 00:28:17,718
Speaker 3: and that could really cause injury too. But I did

584
00:28:17,798 --> 00:28:21,758
Speaker 3: learn if you're the manager and replacement thing pops up

585
00:28:21,758 --> 00:28:24,398
Speaker 3: where you have to replace a player because he can't

586
00:28:24,398 --> 00:28:27,038
Speaker 3: make it, either injury, whatever withdrawn. If you got a

587
00:28:27,038 --> 00:28:28,958
Speaker 3: guy worthy on your own team, you better do it

588
00:28:29,318 --> 00:28:32,158
Speaker 3: because otherwise that can cause a rip if in fact,

589
00:28:32,198 --> 00:28:34,478
Speaker 3: you don't do that within the group, and then on

590
00:28:34,558 --> 00:28:38,038
Speaker 3: top of that, you're still gonna upset somebody. Because it

591
00:28:38,078 --> 00:28:41,358
Speaker 3: came to the situation with Sean Figgins, I thought versus

592
00:28:41,438 --> 00:28:44,678
Speaker 3: Ian Kinsler, and I took Figgy because I thought at

593
00:28:44,678 --> 00:28:47,038
Speaker 3: that time, and it was no disrespect to Kinsler, but

594
00:28:47,078 --> 00:28:49,318
Speaker 3: Figgy was a super utility guy, and this is a

595
00:28:49,358 --> 00:28:51,718
Speaker 3: game that you have to win so you can extra

596
00:28:51,758 --> 00:28:53,838
Speaker 3: innings move people around. I thought Figure could go a

597
00:28:53,878 --> 00:28:56,358
Speaker 3: lot of different places, so that was the reason why

598
00:28:56,438 --> 00:28:59,198
Speaker 3: I did that. And finally in that game, I was

599
00:28:59,238 --> 00:29:02,318
Speaker 3: holding back Wakefield in Saint Louis so that I had

600
00:29:02,358 --> 00:29:04,598
Speaker 3: a knuckleball pitcher. If this game did in fact go

601
00:29:04,678 --> 00:29:07,158
Speaker 3: extra innings, they did not have to worry about all

602
00:29:07,158 --> 00:29:09,638
Speaker 3: the guys I used before because Wakefield could have pitched

603
00:29:10,398 --> 00:29:12,598
Speaker 3: deeply into that game. And regarding the lineup, I was

604
00:29:12,598 --> 00:29:14,118
Speaker 3: not told what to do with the lineup. I was

605
00:29:14,118 --> 00:29:15,958
Speaker 3: able to make my own lineup. There was a lot

606
00:29:15,998 --> 00:29:17,958
Speaker 3: I was able to do on my own, right down

607
00:29:17,998 --> 00:29:21,318
Speaker 3: to how you addressed your players before the game. And

608
00:29:21,598 --> 00:29:23,678
Speaker 3: Obama walks in the door and he walks around in

609
00:29:23,718 --> 00:29:26,558
Speaker 3: Saint Louis and greets everybody. A lot going on, man,

610
00:29:26,598 --> 00:29:28,718
Speaker 3: I'm telling you that the way that thing set up,

611
00:29:29,278 --> 00:29:32,958
Speaker 3: it was like when eventually I learned that two days

612
00:29:33,198 --> 00:29:35,198
Speaker 3: or two and a half days of All Star stuff

613
00:29:35,638 --> 00:29:37,638
Speaker 3: was the equivalent almost of a week of stuff at

614
00:29:37,638 --> 00:29:38,598
Speaker 3: the World Series. Wow.

615
00:29:40,878 --> 00:29:42,838
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Joe, because I'm curious when

616
00:29:42,878 --> 00:29:45,078
Speaker 1: you get the best players in the world together, and

617
00:29:45,358 --> 00:29:48,038
Speaker 1: I know, as a manager you see a lot of them.

618
00:29:48,158 --> 00:29:50,598
Speaker 1: Some of them you know because they played for you,

619
00:29:50,758 --> 00:29:53,798
Speaker 1: or you know them through other ways. But you're seeing

620
00:29:53,798 --> 00:29:55,358
Speaker 1: some of the best players in the world up close,

621
00:29:55,438 --> 00:29:57,718
Speaker 1: really for the first time, right around the batting cage

622
00:29:57,758 --> 00:30:00,398
Speaker 1: in the clubhouse. That kind of thing anything jump out

623
00:30:00,398 --> 00:30:02,998
Speaker 1: at you. I just remember a story where Greg Mannix

624
00:30:03,038 --> 00:30:06,278
Speaker 1: told me that Kevin Brown was throwing a side session

625
00:30:06,398 --> 00:30:09,278
Speaker 1: during the All Star break and Maddox wanted to go

626
00:30:09,438 --> 00:30:12,278
Speaker 1: watch him throw his side session, and he was impressed

627
00:30:12,278 --> 00:30:15,638
Speaker 1: with how loud his two seamer was. This seams cutting

628
00:30:15,678 --> 00:30:17,958
Speaker 1: through the air. You know, it's interesting when you get

629
00:30:17,958 --> 00:30:19,758
Speaker 1: the best players in the world together. Did you have

630
00:30:19,798 --> 00:30:21,878
Speaker 1: any moments like that being up close to some of

631
00:30:21,918 --> 00:30:25,118
Speaker 1: these players? What they did was batting cage, clubhouse whatever it.

632
00:30:25,118 --> 00:30:28,398
Speaker 3: Was, clubhouse. Okay, I'm two thousand and three, I was

633
00:30:28,438 --> 00:30:30,398
Speaker 3: the bench coach. Two thousand and nine, I'm the manager.

634
00:30:30,918 --> 00:30:32,838
Speaker 3: It's like I just mentioned, you have to you know,

635
00:30:32,838 --> 00:30:35,958
Speaker 3: you're gonna address the team, and I remember sitting in

636
00:30:35,998 --> 00:30:38,958
Speaker 3: Saint Louis. I'm standing in Saint Louis in the clubhouse.

637
00:30:39,398 --> 00:30:42,598
Speaker 3: All the guys are gathered around any Derek sitting right

638
00:30:42,638 --> 00:30:43,918
Speaker 3: in front of me, Jeter and some of the other

639
00:30:43,998 --> 00:30:45,918
Speaker 3: Yankees are sitting right there, and I'm looking around the

640
00:30:46,078 --> 00:30:50,118
Speaker 3: room and it's pretty impressive. Marion Rivera's on that team,

641
00:30:50,278 --> 00:30:52,718
Speaker 3: Papo Bond's on that team, Joe Nathan's on that team.

642
00:30:52,998 --> 00:30:55,318
Speaker 3: Like I said, Holliday's your starting pitcher. You know, you

643
00:30:55,358 --> 00:30:58,918
Speaker 3: look at today's group and everybody's you know, really complimentary

644
00:30:58,958 --> 00:31:01,638
Speaker 3: of the group today and athletically how wonderful it is.

645
00:31:01,678 --> 00:31:05,318
Speaker 3: But just look at that team. Carl Crawford was my guide,

646
00:31:05,358 --> 00:31:07,678
Speaker 3: like eight or nine rays on that team, and then

647
00:31:07,718 --> 00:31:10,198
Speaker 3: the coaches and everybody else that wants to sit in

648
00:31:10,198 --> 00:31:14,238
Speaker 3: that room. And I remember the one thing I started with, gentlemen,

649
00:31:14,518 --> 00:31:17,918
Speaker 3: I am standing in front of the best baseball players

650
00:31:17,918 --> 00:31:20,078
Speaker 3: in Major League Baseball, which means you are the best

651
00:31:20,358 --> 00:31:23,558
Speaker 3: baseball players in the world. Number one, number two. I

652
00:31:23,558 --> 00:31:25,998
Speaker 3: want you to understand what kind of a daunting experience

653
00:31:26,078 --> 00:31:29,598
Speaker 3: this actually is for me. And I think that's pretty

654
00:31:29,678 --> 00:31:32,118
Speaker 3: darn close to how I began. And then you get

655
00:31:32,118 --> 00:31:34,118
Speaker 3: in the flow of it and you just go. But

656
00:31:34,478 --> 00:31:36,878
Speaker 3: you know, that's a little nerve racking prior to getting

657
00:31:36,958 --> 00:31:39,078
Speaker 3: up there, taking that big breath and throwing it out

658
00:31:39,118 --> 00:31:41,918
Speaker 3: there for the first time, because you are these guys

659
00:31:41,958 --> 00:31:45,038
Speaker 3: you've seen I'm still a relatively young major league manager.

660
00:31:45,078 --> 00:31:46,918
Speaker 3: It was only my what that was the third year

661
00:31:46,918 --> 00:31:49,318
Speaker 3: in existence for the Rais, so this was going into

662
00:31:49,318 --> 00:31:52,358
Speaker 3: my fourth year. But it is it's a daunting experience.

663
00:31:53,038 --> 00:31:57,358
Speaker 3: Very respectful of everybody there, and yes, that's that's what

664
00:31:57,398 --> 00:32:00,758
Speaker 3: I took from in the last thing was walking Actually,

665
00:32:00,758 --> 00:32:03,758
Speaker 3: you know that was from the Chicago I told myself,

666
00:32:03,918 --> 00:32:07,438
Speaker 3: looking back from the team picture in center field, don't

667
00:32:07,478 --> 00:32:09,718
Speaker 3: let this hurry up on you. Slow this whole thing down,

668
00:32:10,158 --> 00:32:12,598
Speaker 3: don't miss a moment of this. I remember taking a

669
00:32:12,638 --> 00:32:16,478
Speaker 3: mental photograph of the clouds behind the stands at Comiski

670
00:32:16,598 --> 00:32:19,318
Speaker 3: Park whatever it was called at that time. That was

671
00:32:19,358 --> 00:32:22,678
Speaker 3: really important. So to slow it down and to understand

672
00:32:22,718 --> 00:32:24,758
Speaker 3: I'm talking to the best baseball players in the world.

673
00:32:25,278 --> 00:32:28,998
Speaker 2: How about the starting pitchers, Joe? Was that totally your call?

674
00:32:29,038 --> 00:32:30,798
Speaker 1: And I know you're limited in terms of you know

675
00:32:30,878 --> 00:32:34,478
Speaker 1: who's available, but among those who are available, yep.

676
00:32:35,038 --> 00:32:36,718
Speaker 2: Any input from the league.

677
00:32:36,878 --> 00:32:40,878
Speaker 3: No, there wasn't. I picked Calladay, I know. I think

678
00:32:40,958 --> 00:32:44,718
Speaker 3: Rinky was the other guy that other people wanted me

679
00:32:44,838 --> 00:32:47,718
Speaker 3: to do. I think that was was that two thousand

680
00:32:47,718 --> 00:32:49,198
Speaker 3: and nine. I'm pretty sure it was, because I'm getting

681
00:32:49,238 --> 00:32:53,078
Speaker 3: confused with twenty seventeen. That was a Sureser. I started

682
00:32:53,158 --> 00:32:56,998
Speaker 3: Sureser in Miami, But I don't remember any interference other

683
00:32:57,078 --> 00:33:00,078
Speaker 3: than I had announced that Holliday was only going to

684
00:33:00,078 --> 00:33:02,798
Speaker 3: pitch one Any Charlie Manuel announced their starter was going

685
00:33:02,838 --> 00:33:06,078
Speaker 3: to pitch two, and the commissioner at that time, Sealy,

686
00:33:06,238 --> 00:33:09,278
Speaker 3: was a little bit nervous about not having enough people

687
00:33:09,318 --> 00:33:11,718
Speaker 3: to conclude the game if in fact the win extra innings.

688
00:33:12,078 --> 00:33:14,558
Speaker 3: And that's why I said, listen, I'm saving Wakefield. He

689
00:33:14,598 --> 00:33:18,038
Speaker 3: can go all night for extra innings. And you know,

690
00:33:18,118 --> 00:33:20,838
Speaker 3: my biggest problem with that was who's going to catch him? Yeah,

691
00:33:20,838 --> 00:33:23,478
Speaker 3: because by that time I can't remember who the catcher

692
00:33:23,518 --> 00:33:26,518
Speaker 3: would be that was left, but he was not. Nathan

693
00:33:26,598 --> 00:33:31,278
Speaker 3: was on that team, and somebody else was on that team, Oh, Martinez, Victor,

694
00:33:31,518 --> 00:33:33,758
Speaker 3: Victor was there, And so I was Who's going to

695
00:33:33,878 --> 00:33:36,598
Speaker 3: catch him? That was my biggest concern if it did

696
00:33:36,598 --> 00:33:38,278
Speaker 3: go xtraining, Who's gonna catch Wakefield?

697
00:33:38,438 --> 00:33:38,918
Speaker 2: Interesting?

698
00:33:39,118 --> 00:33:42,038
Speaker 1: All right, now, I'm gonna make you choose the starting

699
00:33:42,078 --> 00:33:44,598
Speaker 1: pitchers for this year. First, let's start with the National

700
00:33:44,678 --> 00:33:47,198
Speaker 1: League and you're Dave Roberts, and to me, it comes

701
00:33:47,238 --> 00:33:50,998
Speaker 1: down to Paul skeins Uh and Zach Wheeler and Paul

702
00:33:51,038 --> 00:33:53,718
Speaker 1: skeins the only shot of this is amazing, his second

703
00:33:53,798 --> 00:33:55,838
Speaker 1: year in the big league, starting his second All Star

704
00:33:55,918 --> 00:33:59,278
Speaker 1: game he started last year. And then you've got Zach

705
00:33:59,318 --> 00:34:02,238
Speaker 1: Wheeler who to me is just been the best pitcher

706
00:34:02,238 --> 00:34:05,558
Speaker 1: in baseball, who seems to be the runner up to

707
00:34:05,598 --> 00:34:09,198
Speaker 1: the Cy Young Award, or you know in this case

708
00:34:09,198 --> 00:34:12,038
Speaker 1: that he's never started an All Star Game. Where would

709
00:34:12,078 --> 00:34:14,958
Speaker 1: you go between Skenes and Wheeler? If you're Dave Roberts,

710
00:34:15,718 --> 00:34:16,398
Speaker 1: I go Wheeler.

711
00:34:16,438 --> 00:34:19,678
Speaker 3: That's like Halladay versus Grankie pretty much. You know, the

712
00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,198
Speaker 3: guy that the established veteran having a wonderful year versus

713
00:34:23,198 --> 00:34:25,798
Speaker 3: the new guy coming up on the block. I definitely

714
00:34:25,798 --> 00:34:27,758
Speaker 3: would have gone Wheeler. I'm listen. I've been a Wheeler

715
00:34:27,838 --> 00:34:30,078
Speaker 3: fan for a while. I think we've talked about it.

716
00:34:30,118 --> 00:34:32,718
Speaker 3: When I was with the Angels and it was Garrett

717
00:34:32,718 --> 00:34:35,438
Speaker 3: Cole's year to be recruited this free agent year, and

718
00:34:35,478 --> 00:34:38,118
Speaker 3: I thought that we should sign Wheeler first. If we

719
00:34:38,158 --> 00:34:41,318
Speaker 3: could sign Wheeler, that might convince Cole to think that

720
00:34:41,358 --> 00:34:44,118
Speaker 3: the Angels are really trying to win out here. So

721
00:34:45,038 --> 00:34:48,038
Speaker 3: although at that time, Billy Eppler didn't feel that Wheeler

722
00:34:48,198 --> 00:34:49,838
Speaker 3: would ever want to go to the West Coast, and

723
00:34:49,918 --> 00:34:51,878
Speaker 3: as I met the family, I figured I felt the

724
00:34:51,918 --> 00:34:54,118
Speaker 3: same way. But I thought he would be the bait

725
00:34:54,158 --> 00:34:57,918
Speaker 3: that somehow would attract the better pitchers to come out West.

726
00:34:57,958 --> 00:35:00,118
Speaker 3: I listened when he was there with the Grom with

727
00:35:00,238 --> 00:35:02,198
Speaker 3: the Mets. There was not a whole lot of difference

728
00:35:02,958 --> 00:35:04,798
Speaker 3: between these two guys. I mean there was a little

729
00:35:04,798 --> 00:35:07,638
Speaker 3: injury factor back then. With Wheeler, he's really straightened it out.

730
00:35:08,078 --> 00:35:11,198
Speaker 3: De Grom has not as much. But these two guys

731
00:35:11,198 --> 00:35:14,638
Speaker 3: will learned. De Grom, for me, had the easiest gas

732
00:35:14,998 --> 00:35:17,478
Speaker 3: I've seen. It's just such an easy wind up and

733
00:35:17,518 --> 00:35:19,958
Speaker 3: the ball just jumps out of their hands. So I've

734
00:35:19,958 --> 00:35:22,038
Speaker 3: been I've been a fan for a long long time.

735
00:35:22,118 --> 00:35:23,598
Speaker 3: I'm going Wheeler. All right.

736
00:35:23,638 --> 00:35:26,278
Speaker 1: Now, I'm gonna make you you sit in the chair

737
00:35:26,318 --> 00:35:28,238
Speaker 1: of Aaron Boone. And this is a little bit of

738
00:35:28,278 --> 00:35:32,198
Speaker 1: the uh Sean Figgins Ian Kinsler, Yeah, it is right.

739
00:35:32,318 --> 00:35:35,078
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got Aaron Boone, He's got Max Freed,

740
00:35:35,678 --> 00:35:38,558
Speaker 1: deserving All Stars. He's been his stopper all year. Anytime

741
00:35:38,558 --> 00:35:40,398
Speaker 1: the Yankees have a losing streak, he gives the ball

742
00:35:40,438 --> 00:35:43,998
Speaker 1: to Freed. Yankees win. The All Star Game is in Atlanta,

743
00:35:44,318 --> 00:35:47,758
Speaker 1: Max Freed is going back to Atlanta. You're the manager

744
00:35:47,838 --> 00:35:50,838
Speaker 1: of Max Freed. Are you going to give him the ball?

745
00:35:50,958 --> 00:35:52,038
Speaker 1: Or are you going to look him in the eye

746
00:35:52,078 --> 00:35:54,238
Speaker 1: and say, you know what I can't do this. I'm

747
00:35:54,278 --> 00:35:57,998
Speaker 1: going to give the ball to Trek Scooball, Garrett Crochet,

748
00:35:58,638 --> 00:36:02,038
Speaker 1: Hunter Brown, a lot of good options in the American League.

749
00:36:02,318 --> 00:36:03,878
Speaker 2: So where do you go if you're Aaron Boone?

750
00:36:04,238 --> 00:36:05,678
Speaker 3: At first of all, you got to check out the

751
00:36:05,718 --> 00:36:07,438
Speaker 3: last day they're going to pitch prior to the All

752
00:36:07,438 --> 00:36:10,038
Speaker 3: Star break, and you hope that those other guys are

753
00:36:10,078 --> 00:36:12,798
Speaker 3: pitching on Sunday and make and open it up for

754
00:36:12,878 --> 00:36:15,598
Speaker 3: Freed right there. I don't know Freed well enough. He

755
00:36:15,638 --> 00:36:19,038
Speaker 3: seems like he's a really well adjusted guy. And I

756
00:36:19,078 --> 00:36:22,718
Speaker 3: don't know that if Boone shows somebody else that it

757
00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:27,238
Speaker 3: would really impact a relationship there. I don't know that

758
00:36:27,238 --> 00:36:29,638
Speaker 3: that would be my concern. I'm just just being honest

759
00:36:29,638 --> 00:36:31,478
Speaker 3: with you right here, because I learned that. I learned

760
00:36:31,518 --> 00:36:36,238
Speaker 3: it can impact relationships. It depends on the kind of

761
00:36:36,278 --> 00:36:38,638
Speaker 3: like the ego in a sense of the player involved,

762
00:36:38,798 --> 00:36:43,398
Speaker 3: and if he is kind of slighted by the fact

763
00:36:43,398 --> 00:36:45,998
Speaker 3: that you chose somebody on another team to do this,

764
00:36:46,878 --> 00:36:48,678
Speaker 3: that's going to be part of the evaluation, or you

765
00:36:48,758 --> 00:36:51,158
Speaker 3: might say otherwise, like it's got to be totally sterile

766
00:36:51,198 --> 00:36:52,598
Speaker 3: and I'm just going to do it based on who

767
00:36:52,598 --> 00:36:55,878
Speaker 3: I think is the most worthy. But I think under

768
00:36:55,918 --> 00:37:00,718
Speaker 3: these circumstances, Boonie a little bit more difficult. Man. It's

769
00:37:00,718 --> 00:37:02,758
Speaker 3: easy to say that that Freed can do it. I mean,

770
00:37:03,078 --> 00:37:06,038
Speaker 3: he said a wonderful year. I'm a big schoolbl guy.

771
00:37:06,598 --> 00:37:10,078
Speaker 3: Uh primarily I you know that guy there and Crochet whatever.

772
00:37:10,198 --> 00:37:12,958
Speaker 3: I think Schoobles deserves it. If you ask, you know,

773
00:37:13,078 --> 00:37:16,038
Speaker 3: gun into my head, I go with Schooble. But under

774
00:37:16,038 --> 00:37:19,918
Speaker 3: the circumstances, Booney has to give this, uh serious consideration

775
00:37:19,998 --> 00:37:23,278
Speaker 3: and really has to understand and know Freed and how

776
00:37:23,598 --> 00:37:25,318
Speaker 3: how he would react to it as a.

777
00:37:25,278 --> 00:37:28,598
Speaker 1: Slight Yeah, I'm with you. I think I think schoolble

778
00:37:28,718 --> 00:37:31,398
Speaker 1: is the option here. I think you if you're Aaron Boone,

779
00:37:32,118 --> 00:37:35,398
Speaker 1: it's you have that conversation with Max Freed. I'm you know,

780
00:37:35,478 --> 00:37:38,078
Speaker 1: my history with Max tells me he would be good

781
00:37:38,078 --> 00:37:40,558
Speaker 1: with it. I mean if he if he is this

782
00:37:40,718 --> 00:37:43,878
Speaker 1: first pitcher in after after school ball, you know, great.

783
00:37:43,918 --> 00:37:46,278
Speaker 1: But I think you just have to reward Schooble for

784
00:37:46,318 --> 00:37:48,038
Speaker 1: what he's done these last couple of years.

785
00:37:49,078 --> 00:37:49,678
Speaker 2: So we'll see.

786
00:37:49,718 --> 00:37:53,278
Speaker 1: It's always an interesting call, and it does matter. It's

787
00:37:53,278 --> 00:37:54,998
Speaker 1: a big feather, you know that Joe for a guy

788
00:37:55,038 --> 00:37:57,198
Speaker 1: to start the All Star Game. It's one thing being

789
00:37:57,278 --> 00:37:59,278
Speaker 1: named in all starts another thing to start the game.

790
00:37:59,398 --> 00:38:02,878
Speaker 1: So it'd be a great matchup Wheeler against Schoolble and

791
00:38:03,278 --> 00:38:06,318
Speaker 1: neither one is going to two innings this time, Joe, Right.

792
00:38:07,078 --> 00:38:10,198
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no need to now. Yeah, I back in

793
00:38:10,198 --> 00:38:12,438
Speaker 3: the day, they would they throw a three four innings sometimes, right,

794
00:38:12,518 --> 00:38:14,638
Speaker 3: I mean it's so yeah, I mean the way things

795
00:38:14,638 --> 00:38:18,758
Speaker 3: have more. Yeah, either both of them, I think deservative

796
00:38:18,758 --> 00:38:21,838
Speaker 3: for me, you know, I'm I'm I'm choosing one on

797
00:38:21,878 --> 00:38:24,758
Speaker 3: each side. I would go Wheeler versus School That would

798
00:38:24,758 --> 00:38:25,478
Speaker 3: be my choice.

799
00:38:25,638 --> 00:38:27,758
Speaker 1: Hey, we're gonna take a quick break when we get back.

800
00:38:27,798 --> 00:38:29,798
Speaker 1: I want to run quickly through what I believe are

801
00:38:29,838 --> 00:38:32,838
Speaker 1: the five biggest storylines of the first half of the

802
00:38:32,878 --> 00:38:35,878
Speaker 1: baseball season. And I want to see if Joe agrees

803
00:38:35,998 --> 00:38:38,358
Speaker 1: or he's got something else he wants to add five

804
00:38:38,398 --> 00:38:41,118
Speaker 1: biggest stories of the first half coming up right after this,

805
00:38:53,238 --> 00:38:56,038
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. And all right, Joe,

806
00:38:56,038 --> 00:39:00,398
Speaker 1: I promised you my top five halfway stories through this season.

807
00:39:00,678 --> 00:39:02,838
Speaker 1: I'll start with number five and work my way down,

808
00:39:02,998 --> 00:39:06,038
Speaker 1: and then I'll have you respond to these. I go

809
00:39:06,118 --> 00:39:09,998
Speaker 1: with major market contenders. A good year for baseball tendance

810
00:39:10,078 --> 00:39:12,158
Speaker 1: is up. Ratings are up. A big part of that

811
00:39:12,398 --> 00:39:15,798
Speaker 1: is of the top ten teams in playoff position right now,

812
00:39:16,318 --> 00:39:19,798
Speaker 1: seven of those come from the top seven North American

813
00:39:19,918 --> 00:39:24,998
Speaker 1: markets when you go by population figures Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs, Astros,

814
00:39:24,998 --> 00:39:29,398
Speaker 1: Blue Jays, Phillies. That's number five. That sets up a

815
00:39:29,438 --> 00:39:32,798
Speaker 1: great possibility to postseason. And we're coming off Yankees Dodgers

816
00:39:32,798 --> 00:39:34,638
Speaker 1: in the World Series. And you saw what that those

817
00:39:34,718 --> 00:39:38,518
Speaker 1: ratings were. Like, we all love Cinderella stories, but we

818
00:39:38,598 --> 00:39:41,438
Speaker 1: love most the tried and true, the big market teams.

819
00:39:41,918 --> 00:39:45,198
Speaker 1: Number four, we're on a pace for a record number

820
00:39:45,238 --> 00:39:49,598
Speaker 1: of shutouts. I'm not sure why this is happening, but shutouts.

821
00:39:49,638 --> 00:39:51,478
Speaker 1: And listen, only eight of them have been thrown by

822
00:39:51,518 --> 00:39:54,398
Speaker 1: an individual pitcher, so we're talking about combined shutouts as well.

823
00:39:54,558 --> 00:39:58,118
Speaker 1: Would break the record that has held up since nineteen twelve.

824
00:39:59,118 --> 00:40:02,278
Speaker 1: Number three, the Tigers are the best team in the

825
00:40:02,318 --> 00:40:05,078
Speaker 1: American League. They might be the best team in baseball.

826
00:40:05,318 --> 00:40:07,438
Speaker 1: You know, I'd still go with a healthy Dodgers team,

827
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:10,358
Speaker 1: but we haven't really seen that Dodgers team. So you've

828
00:40:10,358 --> 00:40:12,478
Speaker 1: got the Tigers. Over the last one hundred and sixty

829
00:40:12,478 --> 00:40:15,518
Speaker 1: two games. They're one hundred and sixty two, so this

830
00:40:15,558 --> 00:40:17,078
Speaker 1: is no fluke what they did at the end of

831
00:40:17,158 --> 00:40:19,238
Speaker 1: last year. Their fifth and runs per game third in

832
00:40:19,278 --> 00:40:22,038
Speaker 1: the RA I'm not even sure that they have a

833
00:40:22,118 --> 00:40:24,798
Speaker 1: need to address the deadline. They're so deep and so good.

834
00:40:25,598 --> 00:40:28,798
Speaker 1: Number two the Cubs. Man, this is a fun team

835
00:40:28,878 --> 00:40:29,358
Speaker 1: to watch.

836
00:40:29,398 --> 00:40:29,598
Speaker 3: Man.

837
00:40:29,998 --> 00:40:32,078
Speaker 1: They started fifty one and thirty five for the first

838
00:40:32,118 --> 00:40:36,398
Speaker 1: time since you're nineteen or your twenty sixteen World Championship team, Joe.

839
00:40:37,438 --> 00:40:39,958
Speaker 1: They reached one hundred homers and one hundred steals in

840
00:40:40,118 --> 00:40:43,478
Speaker 1: eighty four games. Only two teams ever got there faster,

841
00:40:44,118 --> 00:40:47,518
Speaker 1: ninety five Reds and the two thousand and nine Rays.

842
00:40:47,638 --> 00:40:49,398
Speaker 2: And finally, Number one story for me.

843
00:40:50,038 --> 00:40:52,758
Speaker 1: Three players are getting the All Star break with thirty

844
00:40:52,758 --> 00:40:56,958
Speaker 1: home runs. Cal Raley, Aaron Judge, and sho Hey Otani.

845
00:40:57,278 --> 00:41:00,198
Speaker 1: Raley is amazing the most. He's the biggest breakout story

846
00:41:00,198 --> 00:41:03,438
Speaker 1: of this year. And Judge and Otani, they're like the

847
00:41:03,478 --> 00:41:07,358
Speaker 1: Magic and Larry Bird of baseball. They're the standard bearers

848
00:41:07,358 --> 00:41:10,558
Speaker 1: of this sport. We're looking at all time greats. They're

849
00:41:10,718 --> 00:41:13,638
Speaker 1: odds on favorite to win the MVP again, and if

850
00:41:13,678 --> 00:41:17,118
Speaker 1: that happens, the two of them will have won seven

851
00:41:17,318 --> 00:41:21,438
Speaker 1: of the last ten MVPs, which reminds me of Magic

852
00:41:21,478 --> 00:41:23,998
Speaker 1: and Bird and one six of seven in the eighties.

853
00:41:24,878 --> 00:41:26,918
Speaker 2: So that's my list of the top five. Joe.

854
00:41:26,958 --> 00:41:31,318
Speaker 1: You can agree with some, none, or add whatever you

855
00:41:31,358 --> 00:41:34,038
Speaker 1: would like to what strikes here is the biggest stories

856
00:41:34,038 --> 00:41:34,958
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five.

857
00:41:35,038 --> 00:41:37,838
Speaker 3: Halfway through I could ever top your research. I mean

858
00:41:37,878 --> 00:41:40,358
Speaker 3: it is all good stuff. First of all with the

859
00:41:40,358 --> 00:41:42,998
Speaker 3: big markets. I mean I'm guilty of that too. I'm

860
00:41:43,118 --> 00:41:46,478
Speaker 3: just like in the morning, I'll sit with my iPad

861
00:41:46,558 --> 00:41:50,118
Speaker 3: and I'll go through the MLB videos and most of

862
00:41:50,158 --> 00:41:53,038
Speaker 3: the time I will just I do gravitate to these

863
00:41:53,078 --> 00:41:54,958
Speaker 3: teams that were done on that list, and I want

864
00:41:54,998 --> 00:41:57,478
Speaker 3: to see what they don't want to see. With THEMESA

865
00:41:57,838 --> 00:42:00,278
Speaker 3: have done on the cobs, I think are very gritty,

866
00:42:01,518 --> 00:42:06,118
Speaker 3: you know, PCA and or really turn that whole program

867
00:42:06,158 --> 00:42:09,598
Speaker 3: around right there. But you're right, Detroit, Houston, Toronto, all

868
00:42:09,638 --> 00:42:12,838
Speaker 3: these teams, those are my first go to. Now among

869
00:42:12,878 --> 00:42:14,958
Speaker 3: the group that isn't like that, I think the Angels

870
00:42:14,958 --> 00:42:16,638
Speaker 3: are kind of interesting right now. I love what jo

871
00:42:16,718 --> 00:42:20,438
Speaker 3: Adell's doing. I love netto the Shortstop. I think he's

872
00:42:20,518 --> 00:42:23,398
Speaker 3: really a good player. These guys are playing with GrITT

873
00:42:23,438 --> 00:42:25,878
Speaker 3: and Hart every night, and so are the Marlins of

874
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:28,718
Speaker 3: all things. So I got these like couple groups that

875
00:42:28,798 --> 00:42:32,438
Speaker 3: I'm following because I like players on their teams and

876
00:42:32,518 --> 00:42:35,758
Speaker 3: I think they're they're kind of interesting. These teams. To

877
00:42:35,758 --> 00:42:38,278
Speaker 3: play five hundred would be a good story. I'm not

878
00:42:38,398 --> 00:42:40,718
Speaker 3: expecting them to be ten over, but even to play

879
00:42:40,718 --> 00:42:43,078
Speaker 3: a five hundred level would be bully for these guys.

880
00:42:43,358 --> 00:42:45,438
Speaker 3: But yes, the big markets do draw, they shout outs.

881
00:42:45,678 --> 00:42:48,158
Speaker 3: I haven't been paying attention to that as much. I

882
00:42:48,438 --> 00:42:51,478
Speaker 3: didn't realize that, and so I don't have a real

883
00:42:51,518 --> 00:42:54,398
Speaker 3: strong comment on that. It's just that, you know, pitchers

884
00:42:54,438 --> 00:42:57,398
Speaker 3: have the advantage to today Velocity's up. They don't care

885
00:42:57,398 --> 00:42:59,718
Speaker 3: about starters. They keep rolling these guys out of the bullpen.

886
00:42:59,758 --> 00:43:01,598
Speaker 3: They're hard to hit. I guess that's not a huge

887
00:43:01,638 --> 00:43:06,358
Speaker 3: surprise Tiger's being the back they're they're They're fun to watch,

888
00:43:06,478 --> 00:43:10,518
Speaker 3: and I love the the resent, the ascension of hobby reascenting,

889
00:43:10,558 --> 00:43:12,678
Speaker 3: getting back to the hobby buys, getting back to the

890
00:43:12,718 --> 00:43:16,238
Speaker 3: All Star Game. That really makes me feel pretty darn good.

891
00:43:16,678 --> 00:43:20,078
Speaker 3: I like all of that with them, so and of

892
00:43:20,158 --> 00:43:22,798
Speaker 3: Scotty Harris being the GM. There're Scotty and I spent

893
00:43:22,838 --> 00:43:25,518
Speaker 3: a lot of time together with the Cubbies, and finally

894
00:43:25,638 --> 00:43:28,438
Speaker 3: I talked about the Cubbies. But you know the Kyle Rawley.

895
00:43:28,518 --> 00:43:30,638
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, you're right A show and Judge are

896
00:43:30,718 --> 00:43:34,078
Speaker 3: Bird and Magic, no question. That's a great comp right there.

897
00:43:34,398 --> 00:43:38,318
Speaker 3: But Raleigh, I mean, who is he? This stuff? They're

898
00:43:38,358 --> 00:43:40,558
Speaker 3: playing each other, The Yankees are playing the Mariners coming

899
00:43:40,638 --> 00:43:42,238
Speaker 3: up right now. That's gonna be fun to watch too.

900
00:43:42,398 --> 00:43:45,078
Speaker 3: This guy here, we talked about it last week. I

901
00:43:45,118 --> 00:43:47,918
Speaker 3: think the fact that he plays that position and he's

902
00:43:47,918 --> 00:43:51,398
Speaker 3: doing this offensively, and the guy plays all the time,

903
00:43:52,118 --> 00:43:54,878
Speaker 3: and the big dumper, there's the there's so many cool

904
00:43:54,878 --> 00:43:56,838
Speaker 3: things about this. For I don't know him, but like

905
00:43:56,878 --> 00:43:58,198
Speaker 3: I said, the first time I saw him, I thought

906
00:43:58,198 --> 00:44:00,678
Speaker 3: he had extraordinary bat speed. So I have nothing to

907
00:44:00,758 --> 00:44:03,158
Speaker 3: argue about here. I think that's a great breakdown of

908
00:44:03,158 --> 00:44:05,518
Speaker 3: what's going on right out, and I'm on board.

909
00:44:05,718 --> 00:44:07,718
Speaker 1: Let me just run one of those by you again, Joe,

910
00:44:07,798 --> 00:44:11,318
Speaker 1: the shutout thing, because you mentioned the pitching. It's so

911
00:44:11,398 --> 00:44:14,078
Speaker 1: darn good right when you get a good start from

912
00:44:14,118 --> 00:44:16,478
Speaker 1: your starter, and that could be five innings and you

913
00:44:16,478 --> 00:44:19,558
Speaker 1: can use your high leverage guys. Man, Just think about

914
00:44:19,598 --> 00:44:22,518
Speaker 1: the stuff that hitters are seeing now, right, Yeah, And

915
00:44:22,918 --> 00:44:24,398
Speaker 1: I think when you have a game in hand, you

916
00:44:24,438 --> 00:44:26,878
Speaker 1: have your high leverage guys, it's hard to score a run.

917
00:44:26,998 --> 00:44:29,398
Speaker 1: I think the inverse is true too, though, Joe. I

918
00:44:29,438 --> 00:44:32,238
Speaker 1: think when a team gets behind now, teams don't chase

919
00:44:32,358 --> 00:44:33,918
Speaker 1: deficits the way they used.

920
00:44:33,758 --> 00:44:35,038
Speaker 2: To, and then the game.

921
00:44:35,198 --> 00:44:37,398
Speaker 1: We see a lot of Major League games deteriorate. Now

922
00:44:37,438 --> 00:44:39,638
Speaker 1: you see a lot of position players out there on

923
00:44:39,678 --> 00:44:42,758
Speaker 1: the mountain. So that's the flip side of it to

924
00:44:42,838 --> 00:44:45,158
Speaker 1: me that I think games are more controllable with the

925
00:44:45,278 --> 00:44:47,718
Speaker 1: quality of stuff that pitchers have. I'm talking about shutting

926
00:44:47,718 --> 00:44:50,438
Speaker 1: down offenses. And the other side is we see a

927
00:44:50,478 --> 00:44:51,758
Speaker 1: lot of games get away as well.

928
00:44:51,918 --> 00:44:53,838
Speaker 3: One thing I'm just I've always been big on and

929
00:44:53,878 --> 00:44:55,878
Speaker 3: we've talked about this a lot in the past. I mean,

930
00:44:55,918 --> 00:44:59,038
Speaker 3: technique involved. I don't know how much of the nurturing

931
00:44:59,078 --> 00:45:00,798
Speaker 3: because we've talked to home run, the home run, the

932
00:45:00,798 --> 00:45:02,878
Speaker 3: home end, the home runs, what happens, that's how we

933
00:45:02,878 --> 00:45:06,478
Speaker 3: score runs, et cetera. But aren't the Blue Jays, like

934
00:45:06,598 --> 00:45:08,838
Speaker 3: really a good contact team. Isn't that one big part

935
00:45:08,878 --> 00:45:11,838
Speaker 3: of their DNA right now. They got some pop, yes,

936
00:45:11,918 --> 00:45:14,078
Speaker 3: but these guys move to baseball. The guy at third

937
00:45:14,078 --> 00:45:16,838
Speaker 3: base right now, Barger, I've been watching a little bit lately.

938
00:45:16,918 --> 00:45:18,478
Speaker 3: I like that a lot. I don't like that a

939
00:45:18,478 --> 00:45:20,838
Speaker 3: little bit. I like that a lot. And they have others.

940
00:45:20,878 --> 00:45:22,998
Speaker 3: They have other guys on that team that really no

941
00:45:23,158 --> 00:45:26,998
Speaker 3: namers that kind of like again, they used to work

942
00:45:26,998 --> 00:45:28,678
Speaker 3: get maybe three or four times now. But they guys

943
00:45:28,718 --> 00:45:30,998
Speaker 3: play with grit, they play hard. They got this look

944
00:45:30,998 --> 00:45:33,598
Speaker 3: and again not unlike some of the angel guys I'm seeing.

945
00:45:33,638 --> 00:45:39,478
Speaker 3: So I'm just curious about technique involved. The concession too,

946
00:45:39,638 --> 00:45:42,118
Speaker 3: that we don't have to just score runs with home runs.

947
00:45:42,118 --> 00:45:45,198
Speaker 3: Can we in fact do different things to win games

948
00:45:45,198 --> 00:45:48,598
Speaker 3: by moving the baseball, putting it in play, putting guys

949
00:45:48,638 --> 00:45:51,278
Speaker 3: in motion. Everybody wants to steal bases. Now there's guy.

950
00:45:51,478 --> 00:45:54,918
Speaker 3: I just don't know what the soup asure is, the

951
00:45:54,958 --> 00:45:58,238
Speaker 3: batting technique desu is right now, what are the talking about?

952
00:45:58,278 --> 00:46:02,558
Speaker 3: I've I've actually heard recently that you know, like, for instance,

953
00:46:02,638 --> 00:46:06,718
Speaker 3: boach Man and the Rangers and the previous pitty coach

954
00:46:06,758 --> 00:46:08,718
Speaker 3: comes in the office and boach wants to discuss any

955
00:46:08,798 --> 00:46:11,758
Speaker 3: with them and the dude comes in and starts rattling

956
00:46:11,798 --> 00:46:15,078
Speaker 3: stuff off of his iPad as opposed to internal knowledge

957
00:46:15,118 --> 00:46:18,358
Speaker 3: and experience. So what's going on with that? That's part

958
00:46:18,398 --> 00:46:22,358
Speaker 3: of it. I'm just curious to know, Like the shutouts,

959
00:46:22,398 --> 00:46:25,158
Speaker 3: could they be somewhat avertic? Could it be changed a

960
00:46:25,278 --> 00:46:29,238
Speaker 3: bit of different techniques of a different philosophical approaches being

961
00:46:29,238 --> 00:46:32,118
Speaker 3: employed to win two to one, three to two, one

962
00:46:32,158 --> 00:46:35,238
Speaker 3: to nothing. Sometimes let's say two to one, because I'm

963
00:46:35,278 --> 00:46:38,518
Speaker 3: not going to get shut out just by moving the baseball.

964
00:46:38,678 --> 00:46:41,038
Speaker 3: Is that even being talked about? I'm curious.

965
00:46:41,238 --> 00:46:44,078
Speaker 1: Well, good news for you that strikeouts are actually down

966
00:46:44,158 --> 00:46:46,798
Speaker 1: for a second year in a row. Not by a lot,

967
00:46:47,558 --> 00:46:51,238
Speaker 1: but we've at least stemmed the tide of rising strikeouts

968
00:46:51,238 --> 00:46:53,558
Speaker 1: every year two years back to back with a strikeout

969
00:46:53,638 --> 00:46:54,398
Speaker 1: right going down.

970
00:46:54,598 --> 00:46:58,118
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. So we're on the right path.

971
00:46:58,158 --> 00:47:00,758
Speaker 1: The pitchers still dominate, there's no question, but Joe, you'd

972
00:47:00,758 --> 00:47:02,518
Speaker 1: be happy to know that when we look at runs

973
00:47:02,558 --> 00:47:06,518
Speaker 1: scored and still on base attempts at especially time of game.

974
00:47:07,358 --> 00:47:10,798
Speaker 1: It's very analogous to the mid nineteen eighties, which I

975
00:47:10,838 --> 00:47:13,278
Speaker 1: really think was a great time for baseball. We had

976
00:47:13,318 --> 00:47:16,918
Speaker 1: a lot of diversity, of style, and it's a good thing.

977
00:47:16,958 --> 00:47:20,598
Speaker 1: The baseball has really found this really nice equilibrium, I believe,

978
00:47:20,718 --> 00:47:23,158
Speaker 1: with a few more balls in play, but in general

979
00:47:23,278 --> 00:47:26,598
Speaker 1: the offense, defense balance, and certainly the action per time

980
00:47:26,638 --> 00:47:30,598
Speaker 1: of game. It's a very nice equilibrium that baseball has now.

981
00:47:30,638 --> 00:47:32,518
Speaker 1: That does remind me of baseball in the eighties.

982
00:47:32,798 --> 00:47:34,718
Speaker 3: That was my thing. When I got back to the Angels,

983
00:47:34,718 --> 00:47:36,438
Speaker 3: had a T shirt made play it like it's nineteen

984
00:47:36,478 --> 00:47:39,758
Speaker 3: eighty five. That was it. That's exactly what I had

985
00:47:39,878 --> 00:47:41,798
Speaker 3: on the shirt. I passed it out to all the players.

986
00:47:41,878 --> 00:47:46,038
Speaker 3: That was my goal and more than more than I Yeah,

987
00:47:46,078 --> 00:47:48,198
Speaker 3: I think the superstar of all the changes has been

988
00:47:48,278 --> 00:47:51,038
Speaker 3: the clock. I do. I'm watching games and it's so

989
00:47:51,158 --> 00:47:53,598
Speaker 3: cool to watch the picture right, get back right on

990
00:47:53,638 --> 00:47:56,878
Speaker 3: the mount and here we go. Let's go. That to me,

991
00:47:57,118 --> 00:48:00,398
Speaker 3: in and of itself, is the superstar of all the

992
00:48:00,478 --> 00:48:03,198
Speaker 3: changes made. I think anything else that you like off

993
00:48:03,278 --> 00:48:08,278
Speaker 3: of that is fine, but it's all stams or starts

994
00:48:08,318 --> 00:48:10,158
Speaker 3: with the fact that now the guy gets the ball,

995
00:48:10,238 --> 00:48:13,038
Speaker 3: gets on a rubber, he throws the ball, and that

996
00:48:13,118 --> 00:48:16,118
Speaker 3: to me is the most interesting part of the real change.

997
00:48:16,118 --> 00:48:19,318
Speaker 3: I mean, I still don't like the inability to throw

998
00:48:19,358 --> 00:48:23,518
Speaker 3: over more than twice. I don't like that. Those are

999
00:48:23,558 --> 00:48:26,678
Speaker 3: the kind of things that I don't impact strategy. Ever,

1000
00:48:27,438 --> 00:48:29,758
Speaker 3: that's what see when it comes down to the clock,

1001
00:48:30,278 --> 00:48:32,758
Speaker 3: I don't think it impacts strategy. It's packed strategy and

1002
00:48:32,758 --> 00:48:34,358
Speaker 3: the fact that maybe you got to get in better

1003
00:48:34,398 --> 00:48:37,198
Speaker 3: shape because you've got to pitch more quickly in between,

1004
00:48:37,238 --> 00:48:40,478
Speaker 3: maybe something to that effect. But there's no strategical involvement.

1005
00:48:40,558 --> 00:48:43,438
Speaker 3: Run around second base, Yeah you're messing with my strategy.

1006
00:48:43,918 --> 00:48:46,958
Speaker 3: Three batter minimum, Yeah, you're messing with my strategies. All

1007
00:48:47,038 --> 00:48:49,718
Speaker 3: this stuff messes with my strategy. But the clock and

1008
00:48:49,758 --> 00:48:54,638
Speaker 3: the PitchCom the ability to communicate to pitches technologically with

1009
00:48:54,718 --> 00:48:57,278
Speaker 3: the little push of a butt, I think that's brilliant.

1010
00:48:57,518 --> 00:49:00,318
Speaker 3: So those are the things to me that really have

1011
00:49:00,438 --> 00:49:02,878
Speaker 3: changed the game in a good way that I enjoy.

1012
00:49:03,238 --> 00:49:05,798
Speaker 1: It is funny in fan polling, one of the things

1013
00:49:05,838 --> 00:49:08,838
Speaker 1: fans really hate is pickoff throws the first base, and

1014
00:49:08,838 --> 00:49:10,878
Speaker 1: they still boo them every time a guy throws the

1015
00:49:10,878 --> 00:49:12,878
Speaker 1: first base, you know, against that stupid.

1016
00:49:13,638 --> 00:49:15,958
Speaker 3: I'm sorry fans, that's that's that's really not bright.

1017
00:49:15,998 --> 00:49:20,278
Speaker 1: But we haven't seen ridiculous numbers of stolen base attempts

1018
00:49:20,278 --> 00:49:22,278
Speaker 1: I mean, pitchers now do such a better job in

1019
00:49:22,358 --> 00:49:26,438
Speaker 1: holding the ball and being quicker to home plate that

1020
00:49:26,758 --> 00:49:29,478
Speaker 1: it's not a free base by any means. Like I said,

1021
00:49:29,478 --> 00:49:32,078
Speaker 1: the stolen base attempts are exactly the same as what

1022
00:49:32,118 --> 00:49:34,598
Speaker 1: they were in the in the mid eighties, So at

1023
00:49:34,718 --> 00:49:37,518
Speaker 1: least in terms of affecting strategy, Joe, it really hasn't

1024
00:49:37,518 --> 00:49:39,118
Speaker 1: affected gameplay.

1025
00:49:39,198 --> 00:49:42,998
Speaker 3: Okay, But the thing is also regarding the stolen base,

1026
00:49:43,318 --> 00:49:47,238
Speaker 3: it's the impact on the body also running that it's

1027
00:49:47,238 --> 00:49:49,358
Speaker 3: a good lead, it's a it's a real it's a

1028
00:49:49,438 --> 00:49:51,798
Speaker 3: it's a mental thing to get the good lead. All

1029
00:49:51,838 --> 00:49:54,438
Speaker 3: the reasons that are necessary, slide and hitting the dirt,

1030
00:49:54,838 --> 00:49:58,318
Speaker 3: all those things that nobody really considered when they said,

1031
00:49:58,318 --> 00:49:59,838
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, it's going to impact the game.

1032
00:49:59,878 --> 00:50:03,318
Speaker 3: In regards to more stolen bases, I think after in

1033
00:50:03,358 --> 00:50:05,518
Speaker 3: the beginning, when it became like, Okay, we're going to

1034
00:50:05,558 --> 00:50:09,158
Speaker 3: steal more bases and whatever it hurts, you know, Ricky

1035
00:50:09,198 --> 00:50:13,038
Speaker 3: Henderson stealing that many bases, Brock Marie Willis, Gosh, those

1036
00:50:13,078 --> 00:50:15,318
Speaker 3: bodies had to be bruised the whole year. I think

1037
00:50:15,398 --> 00:50:17,958
Speaker 3: part of guys not wanting to run is the fact

1038
00:50:17,998 --> 00:50:20,558
Speaker 3: that it's really difficult mentally and physically to do it.

1039
00:50:21,158 --> 00:50:23,318
Speaker 1: I love the phrase and the T shirt as well.

1040
00:50:23,358 --> 00:50:25,358
Speaker 1: Play it like it's nineteen eighty five. But I know,

1041
00:50:25,478 --> 00:50:28,598
Speaker 1: Joe that you came with something else in terms of

1042
00:50:28,598 --> 00:50:30,598
Speaker 1: words of wisdom to close out this edition of the

1043
00:50:30,598 --> 00:50:31,358
Speaker 1: Book of Joe.

1044
00:50:31,398 --> 00:50:32,798
Speaker 2: So what do you have this time?

1045
00:50:33,118 --> 00:50:35,398
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've kind of alluded to it earlier,

1046
00:50:35,558 --> 00:50:38,078
Speaker 3: trying to indicate like all the teams under five hundred

1047
00:50:38,118 --> 00:50:40,798
Speaker 3: and those barely above five hundred, and this is something

1048
00:50:40,878 --> 00:50:45,238
Speaker 3: that screams of mediocrity, screams of average, Its screams of concession.

1049
00:50:45,278 --> 00:50:48,438
Speaker 3: It's okay just to be this as opposed to going

1050
00:50:48,478 --> 00:50:52,478
Speaker 3: for the ring every year. So I just all intersects.

1051
00:50:52,558 --> 00:50:55,038
Speaker 3: The fear of being average is the only fear you

1052
00:50:55,158 --> 00:50:58,198
Speaker 3: need to have. It's almost like being average is okay.

1053
00:50:58,478 --> 00:51:01,198
Speaker 3: The goals to be averaged, the goals to be five hundred,

1054
00:51:01,358 --> 00:51:03,518
Speaker 3: and like you said, if in fact we're around that

1055
00:51:03,638 --> 00:51:05,598
Speaker 3: number and here comes the end of the year with

1056
00:51:05,718 --> 00:51:08,038
Speaker 3: more people involved in the playoffs, okay, then maybe we're

1057
00:51:08,038 --> 00:51:11,038
Speaker 3: going to try to do something more diligent in regards

1058
00:51:11,078 --> 00:51:13,478
Speaker 3: to getting us over the top. But I see a

1059
00:51:13,558 --> 00:51:15,838
Speaker 3: real to be like the World Series champ on an

1060
00:51:15,838 --> 00:51:18,318
Speaker 3: annual basis. Like we've talked about before, I rarely hear

1061
00:51:18,318 --> 00:51:20,318
Speaker 3: in the preseason, you know, our goal is to get

1062
00:51:20,358 --> 00:51:21,678
Speaker 3: to the last game of the season to win it.

1063
00:51:21,718 --> 00:51:23,558
Speaker 3: We want we want to go to the World Series. No,

1064
00:51:23,638 --> 00:51:27,798
Speaker 3: they're very everybody's very cautious and making those claims. Everybody's

1065
00:51:27,958 --> 00:51:30,878
Speaker 3: being there's a satisfaction in being average. I think there's

1066
00:51:30,878 --> 00:51:34,118
Speaker 3: a security almost in being average anymore, because in order

1067
00:51:34,158 --> 00:51:36,758
Speaker 3: to be above average, you got to take risks, chances,

1068
00:51:36,998 --> 00:51:38,758
Speaker 3: you've got to do things that a lot of other

1069
00:51:38,798 --> 00:51:41,238
Speaker 3: groups are not willing to try. So the fear of

1070
00:51:41,238 --> 00:51:43,198
Speaker 3: being average is the only fear you need to have.

1071
00:51:43,238 --> 00:51:44,318
Speaker 3: And I totally agree with that.

1072
00:51:44,518 --> 00:51:46,838
Speaker 1: I love that great words of wisdom, and it reminds

1073
00:51:46,878 --> 00:51:49,438
Speaker 1: me what you just said, Joe about sometimes you hear

1074
00:51:49,478 --> 00:51:53,718
Speaker 1: teams talk about we want to play meaningful games in September.

1075
00:51:53,838 --> 00:51:55,038
Speaker 3: Oh god, I want to puke.

1076
00:51:55,918 --> 00:51:56,758
Speaker 2: Love that one.

1077
00:51:57,678 --> 00:52:00,038
Speaker 3: I hate that. I mean I really And then when

1078
00:52:00,038 --> 00:52:01,958
Speaker 3: we're trying to be five hundred, I you know, when

1079
00:52:01,958 --> 00:52:03,438
Speaker 3: I first got to the race, that's all I heard

1080
00:52:03,478 --> 00:52:07,078
Speaker 3: stuff like down and say, really, that's your goal. I mean,

1081
00:52:07,878 --> 00:52:09,958
Speaker 3: let's set it a little b higher than that. Expectations,

1082
00:52:10,038 --> 00:52:13,118
Speaker 3: higher pressure, ramp it up a little bit, you'll get

1083
00:52:13,118 --> 00:52:14,158
Speaker 3: the best out of these guys.

1084
00:52:14,238 --> 00:52:15,078
Speaker 2: Cool stuff, Joe.

1085
00:52:15,078 --> 00:52:16,878
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time at the Book of Joe

1086
00:52:16,958 --> 00:52:20,758
Speaker 1: and enjoy everybody the All Star Game coming up in Atlanta.

1087
00:52:20,838 --> 00:52:28,918
Speaker 3: Absolutely take care, Tony.

1088
00:52:29,558 --> 00:52:32,758
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1089
00:52:32,998 --> 00:52:37,878
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1090
00:52:38,118 --> 00:52:39,878
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