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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning with another Betrayal bonus episode. As the

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Speaker 1: Betrayal team works hard to bring you season three and

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Speaker 1: at the same time turn Ashley's story into a docu series,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to introduce you and Ashley to Stacy, the

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Speaker 1: person who will share her story in season three. We

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Speaker 1: also wanted to check in with Aaron Adams, who was

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Speaker 1: having a hard day after getting some bad news. First,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to learn more about one of the organizations

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Speaker 1: working to keep kids and family safe, so we asked

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Speaker 1: Jenny Coleman, the director of Stop It Now, if she

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Speaker 1: would sit and speak with us. Jenny, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm really happy to

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Speaker 2: be here.

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Speaker 1: I'm with Ashley Lytton, she's the subject of season two

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Speaker 1: of Betrayal. Before we get into ashle story, I want

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Speaker 1: to hear a little bit about what you do. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell us about Stop It Now?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Stop It Now is a national child sex abuse

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Speaker 2: prevention program. We actually focus on perpetration prevention, which means

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Speaker 2: we really want to help folks who are in a

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Speaker 2: position that they're seeing warning signs or a vulnerable environment

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Speaker 2: and help them know what steps they can take to

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Speaker 2: interrupt any sort of harmful or abusive trajectory. It could

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Speaker 2: be signs in a spouse, a partner, a family member.

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Speaker 2: You're concerned that they're struggling with safe boundaries. But we

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Speaker 2: also serve everyone parents who have found out their child

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Speaker 2: has been harmed or abused, or that someone they know

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Speaker 2: has abused someone. Anybody who's in position that says, you know,

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Speaker 2: I want to keep kids safe and I feel like

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Speaker 2: I could do more, or I'm seeing something that's concerning

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Speaker 2: me and to do that, we offer a free confidential helpline.

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Speaker 2: We also have a website full of free downloadable resoalce

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Speaker 2: verses on everything from what are warning signs? To how

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Speaker 2: do I check into my child's school? So visit us

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Speaker 2: at stopittnow dot org.

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Speaker 1: Ashley, do you want to share with Jenny a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your story and some of the hurdles that

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with now?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Hi Jenny, Hi Ashley, I'm glad to meet you. So,

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Speaker 4: my husband was convicted of a child sexual exploitation and voyeurism.

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Speaker 4: He served ten months in county jail. He will be

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Speaker 4: on our sex offender registry for ten years and now

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Speaker 4: we have been going through a pretty terrible divorce for

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Speaker 4: two years now, and because he is doing well in

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Speaker 4: his court mandated therapy for sex offenders, he has had

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Speaker 4: supervised visits with our ten year old, and as soon

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Speaker 4: as the end of this month he will have unsupervised

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Speaker 4: visits with her.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that you and your family have had

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Speaker 2: to go through this. I can't imagine just what a

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Speaker 2: difficult time. And you've been such a protective mom, and

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Speaker 2: you are the epitome of what to do when you

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Speaker 2: make such a horrific discovery.

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Speaker 1: In your line of work, do you see a lot

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Speaker 1: of parents navigating this process of visitation and what are

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Speaker 1: some recommendations that you can offer to Ashley.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking earlier about how important it is to

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Speaker 2: know that we can't control everything that happens in the world,

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Speaker 2: but how we respond is what really.

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Speaker 5: Makes or breaks us.

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Speaker 2: And so we look at what do we have control over,

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Speaker 2: and that's how we talk with our kids about safety.

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Speaker 2: What are good boundaries? What are our rules so that

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Speaker 2: if anybody, even someone you love and care about, parent,

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Speaker 2: a grandparent, a professional, someone in a faith based institution,

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Speaker 2: does cross your boundaries. We give our children tools to

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Speaker 2: keep them safe.

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Speaker 4: Statistic the recidivism rates for sex crimes are pretty low.

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Speaker 4: But you're kind of on the ground running. What do

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Speaker 4: you see? What are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 2: So recidivism is really tricky because it is low, but

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Speaker 2: that's what we know. Interestingly enough, what we do here

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Speaker 2: is from people who do want to change and who

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Speaker 2: want help. But that's why they come to our site.

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Speaker 2: They recognize that they're struggling with safe boundaries or struggling

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Speaker 2: with their thoughts, feelings and behaviors. These are people who

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Speaker 2: want help to not cross a line, or if they

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Speaker 2: have crossed the line, they want help not to. But

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Speaker 2: I think the point with that is that they've taken

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Speaker 2: responsibility and are accountable. So there's kind of a model

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Speaker 2: of success.

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Speaker 1: In terms of model for success. If you hear I

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Speaker 1: found God and now I'm healed, or I was sick

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Speaker 1: but now I'm healed, how do you feel about those

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Speaker 1: statements in terms of recovery.

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Speaker 2: This is not to in any way diminish the power

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Speaker 2: of anybody's faith. It is fine to say I have

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Speaker 2: found faith through this process, But here's how that's impacted me.

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Speaker 2: Here's what I've learned about myself. Here's what it is

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Speaker 2: that I plan to do differently, Here's how I plan

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Speaker 2: to get support. There's got to be a lot more

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Speaker 2: than just oh, I didn't have God in my life

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Speaker 2: before and now I do, and so I'm a safe person.

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Speaker 2: That is not going to cut it.

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Speaker 1: And if someone is communicating just that, does that give

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Speaker 1: you cause for concern about their rehabilitation process or where

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Speaker 1: they are in their recovery process.

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Speaker 2: It absolutely does. That statement in and of itself, to me,

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Speaker 2: is really leaving out such a huge important part. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't help heal the harm. It just doesn't demonstrate an

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Speaker 2: understanding of the harm that they've caused. God didn't cause

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Speaker 2: this harm. I, as a human being, harm the people

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Speaker 2: I love in my family by crossing their boundaries and

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Speaker 2: violating their privacy and engaging in a legal harmful behavior

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Speaker 2: by doing X, Y and C. It doesn't include that.

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Speaker 2: So it's not enough.

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Speaker 1: So much of this process, I feel like you were voiceless, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: And part of the podcast was you reclaiming your voice,

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Speaker 1: reclaiming your power. Jenny, do you have any recommendations for

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Speaker 1: Ashley on how she can stand in her power and

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Speaker 1: all of this?

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Speaker 2: That's a great question, just because I already see you

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Speaker 2: doing that. I mean, you're such a protective mom and

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Speaker 2: you are speaking out, and I do want to say

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Speaker 2: I'm not one of those folks that feel like everybody

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Speaker 2: has to disclose abuse in their life, but I do

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Speaker 2: think being able to use your voice to educate others,

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Speaker 2: share your experience, encourage others is incredibly powerful. And realizing

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Speaker 2: I couldn't control everything and I'm doing all the right

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Speaker 2: things now forgiving yourself, having your own good personal therapy

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Speaker 2: or counseling to support you and just self care really

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Speaker 2: important to reclaiming your power as well.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: Jenny, thank you so much for joining us today and

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Speaker 1: I appreciate all of your insight.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much. I will definitely look for

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Speaker 4: some different resources on Stop It Now. I didn't know

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Speaker 4: that was also a resource for people like me, so

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Speaker 4: thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely write me directly and I'd be happy to point

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Speaker 2: you to some resources I'm thinking about that may be

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Speaker 2: helpful as well.

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Speaker 4: Oh all right, cool. Thank you so much, Jenny, and

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Speaker 4: thank you for all the work that you do.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you again.

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Speaker 1: Go to stop it Now dot org if you or

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Speaker 1: someone you know is worried about their thoughts and feelings

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Speaker 1: towards children. Next, we'll get an update from someone you

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Speaker 1: met before in season two, Aaron Adams, and if you

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Speaker 1: haven't heard her story before, check out season two episode

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Speaker 1: six member Aaron Adams. She was a marriage and family

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Speaker 1: therapist whose husband Joel, pled guilty to twenty five felony

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Speaker 1: charges of child sexual abuse material and was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: eight years in prison, but was released just after three years.

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Speaker 1: After finding out that Aaron's husband had reoffended, Ashley and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to catch up with her to see how

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Speaker 1: her custody fight was progressing.

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Speaker 4: And you have the hiccups I do.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to calm myself.

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Speaker 4: I think it's cute. How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm mad as hell today, big bad, Yeah, big bad,

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Speaker 3: big sad.

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Speaker 1: No, it's gone on.

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Speaker 3: I just thought this was over, you know, and it's not. Yeah. Basically,

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Speaker 3: they just said, yeah, you still have to take your

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Speaker 3: kids to supervise visits. I'm like, he's awaiting sentencing next week,

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Speaker 3: but they said, listen, family Court, we know nothing about that.

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Speaker 3: You still have to take your kids. I'm just I

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Speaker 3: rate about the best that this has caused.

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Speaker 1: Jewelry offended. Yeah, how did you find out about that?

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Speaker 1: And how did that all play out?

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Speaker 3: I don't know the circumstances of how or why he reoffended.

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Speaker 3: All I know is that it was a felony charge.

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Speaker 3: It's public on the court County website. And my lawyer

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Speaker 3: had called me to prepare me for court and she said,

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Speaker 3: guess what, he did it again, So this should be easier. Now.

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Speaker 3: I've never once felt anything got easier throughout this entire process.

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Speaker 3: I've never felt that freedom like how to get caught?

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Speaker 3: He had things on his phone that violated his parole

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Speaker 3: and got him sent back for more charges.

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Speaker 4: Wow, I think you and I both are fighting that

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Speaker 4: same bite right now. I was like, fuck, no, he's

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Speaker 4: not seeing her, I'm not doing supervised visits. And I

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Speaker 4: got in trouble for it. They told me I had

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Speaker 4: to let her go to supervise visits, even though I

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Speaker 4: said she doesn't want to go. How are we supposed

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Speaker 4: to protect these kids?

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Speaker 3: That's exactly how I feel. I mean, it'll always be

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Speaker 3: our job, but I don't think they should have to

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Speaker 3: be on us. Because I told the judge the very

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Speaker 3: same thing. I said, my kids are still the same

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Speaker 3: age as the kids that he's viewing.

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Speaker 6: And he just did it again. So this isn't an

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Speaker 6: oopsy whoopsie. This isn't he accidentally stumbled across this page.

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Speaker 6: He purposely made a habit out of this. This is

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Speaker 6: something that he does.

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Speaker 3: She didn't listen to me at all, and I said,

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Speaker 3: we've moved on. I'm not even mad at him. I

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Speaker 3: feel sorry for him. Right, I'll abide by the court order,

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Speaker 3: but if he ends up going to prison, I might

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Speaker 3: have bought us some more time. And I absolutely don't

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Speaker 3: coach my kids. I'm only trying to inform my kids.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: This is a super fine line. I said, if you

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Speaker 3: ever change your mind and you want to meet him,

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Speaker 3: you have questions for him, I will one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: uphold that. I will make sure you go and you

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Speaker 3: get your questions answered and you are in a safe place.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that every parent would do that, but

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Speaker 3: I know I will do that.

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Speaker 1: You're wonderful, mom, you really are, and we are thinking

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Speaker 1: and rooting for you on the sidelines. And keep us

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Speaker 1: updated for what happens in the next few weeks.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I'm always a text away up.

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Speaker 1: We'll meet with the woman at the center of Betrayal

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Speaker 1: season three. We wanted to introduce you and Ashley to

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Speaker 1: the person we will all get to know in season

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Speaker 1: three of Betrayal Stacy Rutherford. Hi, Stacy, Hey, I have

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Speaker 1: Ashley here with me and I want to introduce you guys.

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Speaker 4: Finally, Hey, Ashley. Hi, Stacy. Good to hear from you.

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Speaker 5: It's so good to hear you, so.

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Speaker 1: Stacey wrote in After Hearing season two, Stacy, do you

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Speaker 1: want to just share you know what hearing Ashley's story

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Speaker 1: was like for you?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Well, my boss at work had told me that

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Speaker 5: she had listened to the podcast and it was so

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Speaker 5: similar to my story that she shared it with me

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Speaker 5: and I went home and binged it that week. It

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Speaker 5: was just like, for the first time, I felt understood,

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Speaker 5: like I wasn't alone. I know Ashley probably realizes, like

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Speaker 5: in this situation, there's very few people you can talk

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Speaker 5: to who know what you're going through, and I just

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Speaker 5: I wanted to reach out. Actually, I wanted to find

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Speaker 5: her because I just wanted to talk to her, like

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Speaker 5: I just wanted somebody that understood me and understood my situation.

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Speaker 4: Wow, as you're telling me that, it's kind of getting

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Speaker 4: teary eyed, because I think when I first started out

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Speaker 4: on this journey, it was for the exact same reason.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I could be in the room with you know,

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Speaker 4: all the people that loved me and care about me,

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Speaker 4: and still feel really alone because nobody really knows.

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Speaker 1: What was it about Ashley's story that felt similar or

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Speaker 1: felt like you understood.

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Speaker 5: I think it was after everything happened, you know, having

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Speaker 5: that anger towards my husband at the time for the

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Speaker 5: betrayal and for doing what he did. But also when

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Speaker 5: you go from loving someone one day to the next

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Speaker 5: day finding out all of these things, everybody thinks you're

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Speaker 5: just automatically supposed to just shut these feelings off. Your

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Speaker 5: love just doesn't magically go away, or does the memories

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Speaker 5: that you had with that person, And I felt shameful.

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Speaker 5: And I think when I heard in Ashley's story that

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Speaker 5: she still had those similar feelings too, it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: I'm not abnormal for feeling this way and missing those

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Speaker 5: parts of my life.

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Speaker 4: That's been like a really hard thing for me to reconcile.

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Speaker 4: We did build a life with these men. They were

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Speaker 4: good fathers, they were good husbands, and we did have

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Speaker 4: really great times but then to have them also be

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Speaker 4: the perpetrator of these terrible things. For me to bring

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Speaker 4: those two together was insanely hard, but I had a

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Speaker 4: therapist tell me that it's possible to have had this

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Speaker 4: past life with Jason that was happy and good, and

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Speaker 4: Jason to be this good person and he is also

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Speaker 4: a monster. In the beginning stages of the podcast, I

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Speaker 4: was embarrassed, but I had made a vow to myself

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Speaker 4: that I was going to be one hundred percent truthful

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Speaker 4: with the whole story because I knew that I couldn't

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Speaker 4: be the only one that felt these same things. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm glad that that was something that you were able

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Speaker 4: to connect with, because I knew people were going to

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Speaker 4: either love it or hate it.

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Speaker 5: Well that's my fear also, just like, oh gosh, what

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Speaker 5: are people going to think? And I think you can

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Speaker 5: very much compartmentalize those kinds of things in that moment.

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Speaker 5: You know of this is the person I know in

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Speaker 5: this box, this is the person he truly is. And

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Speaker 5: it's hard for someone who was on the outside to

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Speaker 5: see that and understand that that it just doesn't stop overnight,

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Speaker 5: and so you keep it quiet and you don't tell anyone,

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Speaker 5: And so therefore I just like say, I suffered in silence, right.

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Speaker 1: I just think people expect grief to be a linear process,

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Speaker 1: but it's not. And what I've gravitated towards both of

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Speaker 1: your stories is that it's very real, and the struggles

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Speaker 1: and the things that you have to ask and question

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Speaker 1: is what I believe people relate to. And it's a

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Speaker 1: very real human experience and we're not hiding from any

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Speaker 1: of that. And so I applaud both of your ability

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Speaker 1: to be vulnerable and transparent. Stacey, do you have any

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Speaker 1: advice that you want to ask Ashley going through this experience.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. When everything happened, ours was very highly publicized, and

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Speaker 5: I shut everything down on social media for a while

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Speaker 5: because I was afraid people would try to reach out. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, just that kind of thing, like, have you

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Speaker 5: had any issues with that, with people trying to reach

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Speaker 5: out to you to say horrible things, not like what

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Speaker 5: I wanted to reach out.

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Speaker 2: To you for.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, actually I did, surprisingly though. I was in a

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Speaker 4: social media support group for women going through divorce and

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Speaker 4: I had asked a question, nothing related to our story

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Speaker 4: or anything, and somebody posted links to the news article

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Speaker 4: and just said things like her husband's a pedophile. So

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Speaker 4: I did. I shut my social media down, started a

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Speaker 4: new one with just my family and close friends for me,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 5: I had some of his family who didn't support him,

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Speaker 5: but yet wasn't ready to tell certain family members. So

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Speaker 5: it was kind of one of those things of like,

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Speaker 5: can you guys just not blast this all over social media?

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Speaker 5: Which I hadn't intended to anyways, you know, it was

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Speaker 5: on the news, but luckily we had moved back home

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Speaker 5: so we were far from that. But you know, I

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Speaker 5: kind of feel the same way, like we had to

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Speaker 5: be quiet for so long.

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Speaker 1: Stacy, do you mind sharing with Ashley a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what happened to your family?

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Speaker 5: Sure? In summer of twenty twenty one. July of twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty one, we had Social Services show up at our house.

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Speaker 5: They basically just said that there had been a complaint filed.

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Speaker 5: So for the next three weeks, Social Services investigated us.

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Speaker 5: And at the end of the three weeks, I go

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Speaker 5: to work, our nanny calls and she's like, you need

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Speaker 5: to come home. So I pull in the driveway and

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Speaker 5: there's all these vans and SGVs and they're raiding my home.

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Speaker 5: I walk inside, I see my husband sitting at the

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Speaker 5: table with police officers around him, and they take me

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Speaker 5: downstairs and they proceed to tell me that for those

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Speaker 5: three weeks they had been investigating us, and they laid

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Speaker 5: out all these photos. So from there I ended up

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Speaker 5: making him leave the house.

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Speaker 4: So they didn't arrest him that day. No, oh wow.

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Speaker 5: This was July and he was not arrested till October.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 5: They told me that they wanted to build a big

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Speaker 5: enough case, because that was my question too, is like,

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Speaker 5: what are you guys waiting on? You know, what more

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Speaker 5: do you need? Right from there, my understanding is he

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Speaker 5: left the country pretty quick after that. He spent a

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Speaker 5: month over in Europe. He ended up being apprehended when

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Speaker 5: he came back that October of twenty one.

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Speaker 4: Wow. Our timelines are pretty similar, really, yeah, Because Jason

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Speaker 4: was arrested on the twenty ninth of September twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, so he was like a month before. Justin

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Speaker 5: was wow.

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Speaker 4: I have so many questions, but I'm gonna I'll wait.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting because when Jen approached me

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Speaker 1: to tell her story, our goal was if we could

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Speaker 1: make one person feel less alone than we did our job,

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Speaker 1: and then through that season you found the podcast Ash

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Speaker 1: and we told your story, and then through Ashley's story, Stacy,

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Speaker 1: you reached out to us. So I just think it's

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Speaker 1: so amazing that, you know, our little community has gone

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Speaker 1: from Jen to u Ash and now we have you, Stacy.

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Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that you guys trust us to

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Speaker 1: tell your story.

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Speaker 4: It's truly remarkable.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I call you guys part of my tribe. Stacy, you're

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Speaker 4: part of it too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I can't say it enough, Like we have to build

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Speaker 4: up so many people and bring light to this like

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Speaker 4: really ugly dark thing. Yeah, that is so prevalent.

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Speaker 1: Well, Stacy, thank you so much for giving us your time.

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Speaker 1: I'm this afternoon and I'll connect you guys so you

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Speaker 1: can continue to talk throughout this process.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, as you go, you have

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Speaker 4: questions or anything, you just go ahead and give me

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Speaker 4: a call and shait me a text.

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Speaker 5: It was so awesome to me too. And you know,

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Speaker 5: like we said, if it reaches you know a few

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Speaker 5: moms or people questioning things, it's worth it.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely you too, So hold on tight because here you go.

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Speaker 5: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 4: Whoo Okay, bye bye bye.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to our growing Betrayal community. If you missed

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Speaker 1: all of our big updates from the last bonus episode,

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Speaker 1: you missed some pretty exciting news. Season three of Betrayal

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Speaker 1: will follow Stacy Rutherford's story. When she laid eyes on

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Rutherford, she was sure that she was looking

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Speaker 1: at her soulmate. They fell in love and life was perfect.

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Speaker 1: But this family doctor, beloved father, and treasured husband had

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Speaker 1: dark secrets. The man who had sworn an oath to

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Speaker 1: do no harm would go to great lengths, using any

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Speaker 1: means necessary to save himself. Listen to Betrayal Season three

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Speaker 1: on May twenty third on the iHeartRadio app or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Also, because of the overwhelming response,

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Speaker 1: we are launching Betrayal's weekly series. It's about the people

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Speaker 1: we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

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Speaker 1: This new series debuts end of July, and look for

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Speaker 1: Ashley on the small screen as her story has been

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Speaker 1: turned into an ABC News Studios in Hulu docuseriies streaming

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Speaker 1: this summer on Hulu. If you want to contact the

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Speaker 1: Betrayal team, email us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot

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Speaker 1: com to report a case of child sexual exploitation, call

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Speaker 1: the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's cyber Tipline

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Speaker 1: at one eight hundred The Lost. If you or someone

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Speaker 1: you know is worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings

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Speaker 1: towards children, reach out to stop it now.

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Speaker 5: Dot Org.

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Speaker 1: Is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass

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Speaker 1: Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show was

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Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and

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Speaker 1: produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Kerrie Hartman,

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Speaker 1: and also produced by Ben Fetterman and associate producer Christen

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Speaker 1: melcurri Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck.

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Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Nico Aaruca and Matt Dolvecio.

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Speaker 1: Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by

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Speaker 1: my Music. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.