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Speaker 1: Hello, It's Karen and Georgia here to tell you about

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Speaker 1: our brand new limited series podcast, Two Face John of God.

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Speaker 1: Produced by Exactly Right Media and a Don de Media.

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Speaker 2: The series tells the story of a Brazilian spiritual healer

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Speaker 2: who claimed his so called miraculous surgeries could cure the incurable,

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Speaker 2: drawing desperate people from around the world.

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Speaker 1: Hosted by award winning journalist Martina Castro, Two Faced John

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Speaker 1: of God investigates how belief, power and silence allowed this

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Speaker 1: story to go on for decades and the brave survivors

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Speaker 1: who fought to bring it to light.

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Speaker 2: And we're proud to announce that Two Faced John of

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Speaker 2: God will be released in both English and Spanish language

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Speaker 2: versions starting Wednesday, February fourth, with new episodes every Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: You can follow Two Face John of God now on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and for our Spanish speaking listeners, Dos Gatas Juan de

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Speaker 1: Dios is available on Espanol in your favorite podcast apps audios.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

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Speaker 3: That's Georgia hert Start. That's Karen kil Garif we like podcasting,

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Speaker 3: do you.

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Speaker 2: Can you hear how much we like it in our voices.

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Speaker 3: These are our pro podcasting voices.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh do we do this when the world is

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Speaker 2: such a mess? How do I you know?

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Speaker 1: It is just the current. Also, it's like the world

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Speaker 1: is a mess. Everything I see on TikTok is horrifying,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want to look away.

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Speaker 2: And now I can't. It's driving me. I'm going crazy

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Speaker 2: as well, laying in bed earlier, which is fucking being

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Speaker 2: like everything's a mess. Now go put on makeup and

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Speaker 2: fucking contour your cheek bones and podcasts.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, because we got to play in

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Speaker 1: Minnesota before. In Minneapolis, watching what those people are doing

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Speaker 1: and watching how those people are taking a back and

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Speaker 1: being like these are just thugs and we're gonna fucking

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Speaker 1: treat them like thugs. It's so inspiring and it's so

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Speaker 1: like they're just not they're not letting up.

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Speaker 2: And they're not letting fear hold them down.

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Speaker 1: No there, it's just very empowering for everybody else to

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Speaker 1: be seen.

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Speaker 3: I hope they know that. And it's just I mean, insanity.

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Speaker 2: Buck Ice, What are we doing? What is happening?

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Speaker 3: It's clearly fuck Ice?

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Speaker 2: What is fucking happening. It's the fucking Gestapo.

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Speaker 1: And it's a gestapo, and they're attacking people who are

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Speaker 1: intrinsic to this nation in every way, and not just

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Speaker 1: like people always talk about the work. It's like, these

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Speaker 1: are people who were here first, fucking how about that

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Speaker 1: here first, and then basically built up like they were

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Speaker 1: talking about. There was some story out of Minneapolis ice

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Speaker 1: agents eating dinner in a Mexican restaurant and then.

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Speaker 3: Arresting the workers.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Where It's like, well, then they're no line. Then no,

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Speaker 1: there is none that there's no line.

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Speaker 3: These people are berserking and they have to be treated

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Speaker 3: as such.

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Speaker 2: It's fucking terrifying. And I'm a white woman. I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying that I'm terrified for my it's terrifying that this

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Speaker 2: is happening to everyone, to other people, and I'm fucking

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Speaker 2: so horrified by it. Also, it's if you hate people

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Speaker 2: who are trying to make their families' lives better by

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Speaker 2: coming to this country, like where, what's wrong with where's

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Speaker 2: your empathy? That's they're not what's wrong with you? What's

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Speaker 2: wrong with you? I'm so I'm so disgusted.

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Speaker 1: Also, I saw a thing where there's all this trickery

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Speaker 1: in those ice contracts, so they think they're getting paid

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Speaker 1: all this money, but if they quit, they have to

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Speaker 1: pay it back. Wow, And there's all like there's all

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Speaker 1: these stipulations in there where it's like, of course you're

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Speaker 1: getting this is a contract with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: This man does not pay people. This is not a

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Speaker 3: person who is ever historically.

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Speaker 2: Hepped his word. This is a fucking liar and a

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Speaker 2: monster and a meglomaniac and a criminal or pedophile. Like what,

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Speaker 2: oh god, this is our first episode on Netflix?

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Speaker 4: Are real?

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Speaker 3: So are we allowed?

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Speaker 2: That was unprecedented times.

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Speaker 1: No, it's no. I'm glad you said it. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like we've been saying it all the way along.

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Speaker 2: But we haven't. Yeah, I just want to say it

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Speaker 2: before because my fucking story is so trivial and like

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Speaker 2: that I'm going to tell you today and I'm so

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Speaker 2: fucking un important in the scheme of things that I feel.

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Speaker 3: Did you see the Golden Globes, Like no one said

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Speaker 3: a word.

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Speaker 2: Did you see Mark Ruffalo on the red carpet? He

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Speaker 2: said some shit things.

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Speaker 3: And Wanda Sykes, Yeah, yeah, of course, Like.

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Speaker 2: Fuck, I know, we can't not say anything.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it's escalating exactly exactly, Well, listen, here's

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Speaker 1: what I am very inspired by because as I am

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Speaker 1: addicted to TikTok, I can see what the children are

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Speaker 1: doing and saying, and high schools are walking out and

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Speaker 1: joining those protests in Minneapolis, like or joining the people

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Speaker 1: who are like right on the front line where those

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Speaker 1: their lives. Yes, and also for other people, you know,

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Speaker 1: and harassing. I saw a woman who was just harassing

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Speaker 1: people in San Diego who went in to submit for

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Speaker 1: the job, and she was just like it was like

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Speaker 1: a comedy roast. She was just saying awful shit to

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Speaker 1: them as they were walking away. And it is like

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Speaker 1: the most satisfying because she's like, what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: What kind of person is like, Yeah, that's what I

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Speaker 2: want to do. Someone who shouldn't have any authority.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what if we change the subject to something so

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Speaker 1: insane and different from it that it'll just feel like

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Speaker 1: we're going to break the bone here, I've got it, and.

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Speaker 2: Be topical heated rivalry. I've got we have. We are

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Speaker 2: on the pulse of the fucking TikTok generation.

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Speaker 1: We're on the pulse of the distraction generation, where horrors

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Speaker 1: rise up in front of us on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: and that you have to go on and you go like, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: where do we send our money?

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Speaker 3: What do we do? How do we help? And then

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Speaker 3: also get this off me, please rinse my eyes. This

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Speaker 3: is horrifying.

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's so sexy and oh my god,

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Speaker 2: it's everything. And it took me a minute to like

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Speaker 2: get into the first episode, like took me like three

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Speaker 2: times to watch it because I kept getting these like

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Speaker 2: funny memes about it. Yeah, that made me want to

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Speaker 2: keep watching it, right, So glad I stuck with it.

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Speaker 1: That sounds kind of like a boy's excuse of like

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Speaker 1: I had to rewatch that sex scene over and over

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Speaker 1: because I just I don't know, I wasn't into it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I didn't know I was into that, honestly.

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Speaker 2: I know my friends are, my girlfriends are like that's

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Speaker 2: they're fucking into that. And I didn't know I was

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Speaker 2: until I've watched this fucking show.

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Speaker 3: And then I'm like, well, kind of undeniable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and where's my porn?

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Speaker 1: I'm just so to watch it kind of unfold on

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Speaker 1: social media. And it's my friend Jacob Tierney, who I've

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Speaker 1: talked about on this podcast all the time, and it's

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Speaker 1: like his baby and like sass. There was a guy

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Speaker 1: that was filming like the final episode and did I

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Speaker 1: say this already? He was standing on Santa Monica and

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Speaker 1: all four bars were playing it and the bars were

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Speaker 1: packed and there's people like spilling outside and he just

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Speaker 1: was like going like West Hollywood. Yep.

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Speaker 3: I was just like, oh my god, that's so beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Look what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: It's just so incredible.

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Speaker 1: And he's so deserving, he's so smart and talented, so hilarious.

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Speaker 3: And then what's his name?

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Speaker 2: Connor?

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Speaker 1: Connor story story, God, damn it, he's not even fresh.

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Speaker 2: And no, I didn't know these things when I started.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know who wasn't. Now I know everything about him.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 2: What a fucking cutie pie. Please come do a podcast

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Speaker 2: exactly right, media, so we could just have you in

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Speaker 2: office every day.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine what that guy's life is like right now?

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Speaker 1: Where everyone girls, boys whoever are just like, I want

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Speaker 1: to sleep with you right now.

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Speaker 2: Ass is fucking Mothman level, Mothman statue level. Yep. Cakes,

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm I'm blushing and I'm objectifying to

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Speaker 2: someone and I feel judgia. Yeah, per I feel bad

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: No, it's really fun. I think it's the kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a thing get nightmarish. Then there's just

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Speaker 1: like a little bit of itiates. It's visual opiates to

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Speaker 1: get away, definitely, but then emotional like actually really deep.

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Speaker 2: The like love scene not them, but this other love

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Speaker 2: scene is so fucking beautiful and lovely.

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Speaker 3: And I have to be honest right now, I know

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the biggest liar, but because I'm like

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Speaker 1: sitting here like and it's great, but I was in

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Speaker 1: my dad's house.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, good luck.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to try this?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god? Can you imagine?

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Speaker 1: No, my dad who gets up and slams the newspaper

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Speaker 1: down when like a sex scene starts, Like that's the

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Speaker 1: only way he's ever reacted my entire life, where if

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Speaker 1: you're watching a movie, he's.

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Speaker 3: Like good night.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and I was just like I didn't fucking make

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Speaker 1: this movie but that, and then you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: like I want to sit down and binge the entire thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I have to do it because I'm going to

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Speaker 1: really see how you got it in my faking of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's great, you know it is. He's the smartest person

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Speaker 1: and the funniest person. But also he started as a

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Speaker 1: child actor when he was like seven years old.

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Speaker 2: Did he write Letter Keny, Kenny Okay and Suresy?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so that he wrote and directed Letter Kenny

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Speaker 1: and directed Shuresy and I think co wrote it, but

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Speaker 1: then I think he did.

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Speaker 3: Rivalry is all his.

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Speaker 2: So and his name is like on and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I know that name.

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Speaker 1: Created by he read the He's like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's these smutty hockey books and I think I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try to option And that was like, of course

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Speaker 1: two years ago or something like that. I know, incredible,

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Speaker 1: it's very very exciting.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we contain multitudes here the justification, the justification of

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Speaker 2: the juxtaposition. My favorite murder on this podcast, I mean

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Speaker 2: is heated.

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Speaker 1: This is the world everyone's in right now, just like

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Speaker 1: here's the TV.

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Speaker 3: I love, here's the tears streaming down their face.

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Speaker 2: It's the end of the world. Here's some cute thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: here's a cat meme.

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Speaker 3: Can I just carve out one second to make a joke,

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Speaker 3: because I know anytime I do this, people like yell

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Speaker 3: at me and then compliment me, why.

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Speaker 2: Are you talking about our beautiful fucking article in the

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Speaker 2: Hollywood Reporter written by a journalist Mikey O'Connell. It was

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Speaker 2: so cool.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's amazing if a journalist that's talking to us

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Speaker 1: also listens, because then they're kind of like, I remember

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Speaker 1: when a thing happened. What's your version of it? We're like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was very nice. My joke that I want to

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Speaker 1: say without anybody telling me anything, is that in that

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Speaker 1: first picture, it looks like I'm doing an impression of

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Speaker 1: Peter Falk. I don't understand why I can't just take

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Speaker 1: a picture and smile.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 3: I'm even traumatized.

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Speaker 1: It's like and it's like, see you, it'sumatized by show business.

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Speaker 2: All I saw? Can I tell you what I saw?

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Speaker 2: And was like these beautiful photos with great lighting and

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Speaker 2: great makeup, and I was like, my hands look old,

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Speaker 2: Like just we just do that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, we just.

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Speaker 2: Go to that. Immediately.

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Speaker 1: I know. It's like you have to. It's like, what

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Speaker 1: this is the next problem I'm going to solve? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. It's like it's like I'm holding

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Speaker 1: an invisible.

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Speaker 2: Cigar in my mouth. I don't, I didn't see it.

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Speaker 2: Listen and listen, look and listen at how complicated life

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Speaker 2: can be.

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Speaker 1: Look at how superficial we absolutely are in the face

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Speaker 1: of everything else that we are also holding.

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Speaker 2: And how lucky we are. And you guys have been

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Speaker 2: so incredible at our ten year anniversary week. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for all the love and the beautiful comments and just so.

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Speaker 3: Much, so nice, so much love, so nice.

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Speaker 1: I also didn't mean to be so sneaky sliding that

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Speaker 1: topic in, but it's it feels like when it rains

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Speaker 1: at poors and for us, we have been so lucky,

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Speaker 1: and my god, from like tour on, things have just

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Speaker 1: been so lovely and I feel like humbled and grateful

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Speaker 1: that they keep showing.

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Speaker 2: Up for us. Yeah, we know how fucking lucky we are.

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Speaker 3: A new thing.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you should smoke a cigar. Maybe that's your new look.

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Speaker 3: I think so like kind of hot, Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: have it.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting that kind of Russian massuse vibe going. So

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Speaker 1: I think a cigar is really the only the only option.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, so we do some exactly right media,

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Speaker 2: should we do some business, because listen, we still have

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Speaker 2: to run this company.

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Speaker 3: We absolutely do.

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Speaker 2: We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media, and

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Speaker 2: here's some business highlights.

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Speaker 1: Over on Dear Movies, I Love You, Millie and Casey

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Speaker 1: are feeling the heat as they revisit the nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: eight classic how Stella Gutter Groove Back Plus screenwriter Chris

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Speaker 1: Thomas Devlin joins them to talk about his area of expertise.

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Speaker 2: And then over on I Said No Gifts, Bridger does

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Speaker 2: his best not to make it a thing. When corn

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Speaker 2: Wells forces a gift on him anyway, brings him a gift,

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Speaker 2: he said no gifts. They brought him a gift, A

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Speaker 2: insist they get into Tony Braxton's family using hinge dates

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Speaker 2: as tour guides, and whether rabbits are an underrated protein source.

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Speaker 1: No, you've got to listen, and the trailers out now

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Speaker 1: for our newest podcast, Two Faced John of God, and

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Speaker 1: it's our first dual language podcast, so it will be

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Speaker 1: available of course in English and now in Spanish. The

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Speaker 1: Spanish feet is called Doscadas Wanda Dios and it premieres

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Speaker 1: February fourth, follow everywhere you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: You're so proud of this. You've done so much work

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Speaker 2: on this it's so exciting. So this has been in

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Speaker 2: the works for so long. It's very exciting it has.

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Speaker 1: And Adande Media, the company that we're doing it with.

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Speaker 1: Martina Castro is the journalist that that's her company. She's

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Speaker 1: the loveliest person. She's going to be on the podcast

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Speaker 1: so we can talk to her about it in person, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but as a company, they've just been the coolest. They're

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Speaker 1: so good at what they do and they're so fun

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Speaker 1: and collaborative.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait for the world to hear it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's great. And then, as we said, My Favorite Murder

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Speaker 2: is officially heading to Netflix. So on January twenty sixth,

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Speaker 2: six back catalog episodes will be up on the My

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Speaker 2: Favorite Murder Netflix channel check it out, followed by the

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Speaker 2: first brand new full episode on January twenty eighth and

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Speaker 2: the first new minisode. I'm drawing a lot of dates

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Speaker 2: at everyone. The first new minisode is on January thirtieth.

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Speaker 2: They're all streaming exclusively on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: On Netflix where they now show a video podcast. Here's

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Speaker 1: what I love about this. Every other episode is just

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Speaker 1: gonna go like our normal things. So it's a full

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Speaker 1: episode and then minisodes. Full episode minisodes.

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Speaker 3: I love the.

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Speaker 1: Idea that people get to like a really broad group

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Speaker 1: of people could get to try out the little taster

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Speaker 1: of minisodes.

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Speaker 3: I think people are gonna really like minisos.

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Speaker 2: And I think that means we're gonna get a lot

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Speaker 2: more great email sentence of minisodes like it's just gonna

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Speaker 2: ramp up the like you know what meanes after stories.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna need a mail room.

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Speaker 1: Okay, over in merch Corner, Nicole is here to remind

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Speaker 1: us that our twenty twenty five tour Merch is now

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Speaker 1: available in the exactly Right store. Go grab your tour

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Speaker 1: hats and tots and all the apparel from our live shows.

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Speaker 2: Yeah at wear.

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Speaker 1: Over on exactly right store dot com. Quantities are limited,

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Speaker 1: so please rush and push other people out of the way.

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Speaker 2: Oh when we have a quick merch show off thing.

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Speaker 2: You have these fucking adorable pins.

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Speaker 1: Oh everybody loves these pins. Oh wait, and they are

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Speaker 1: you know what they are?

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Speaker 3: What are they? They are? Madis even work?

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Speaker 2: And then you get a cute little case to put

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Speaker 2: your joints into.

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Speaker 3: Magnet Okay, magnet, Wait, what are we doing?

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Speaker 2: We've got magnets?

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Speaker 3: Magnet magnets?

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Speaker 2: Uh, a fuck politeness. Cooozy here, that's so cute, my

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Speaker 2: gurly pink. But I always get like it's either black

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Speaker 2: or pink, and each of us get like, because carrying

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Speaker 2: one's all black stuff. I want all pink stuff. Gray

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Speaker 2: is the like common denominator one, I think, right with

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Speaker 2: a nice red flag, that's right. So the MFM flag

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Speaker 2: red flag looks amazing, and I have this pink fuck politeness.

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Speaker 2: Definitely getting one for Evince because because he is comfortable

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Speaker 2: in his masculinity and we'll wear pink. Oh, he's not

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Speaker 2: a fucking toxic mail.

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Speaker 3: He's a real clothes horse.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: He loves his real style. Yeah, he does, him and

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Speaker 1: his wife Penguin show.

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Speaker 3: You want to get in on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, Okay, March.

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Speaker 3: Business is over capitalism. We'll save us all.

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Speaker 2: That's the other thing is like, can I stop consuming

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Speaker 2: in twenty two twenty six? I'm just not. I don't

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Speaker 2: need any more of it. I don't need any more

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Speaker 2: organizational fucking things and fucking plastic bullshit and you know,

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Speaker 2: fucking things that are going to fix my life.

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I'm very much on that

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Speaker 1: track with you. I was going to buy this little

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Speaker 1: two level shelf to put coffee mugs on, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, what am I can't just go on the surface.

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Speaker 3: I don't need this. Stop it.

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Speaker 1: I have to like pair it all the way back

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Speaker 1: to lip bombs and lipliners because it's like it's just

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00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: a little something new every once in a while, but

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Speaker 1: like the mass consumption is not working for me.

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Speaker 2: Things aren't going to fix your life. Cats and dogs are, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's really true. Do that take them outside? Foster them

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Speaker 2: so you don't have to commit because we know you've

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Speaker 2: are a commitment foe. That's totally fine.

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Speaker 3: Cut to me with the ten dogs in a room,

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Speaker 3: like what.

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Speaker 2: Adoption fail on all of them? Oh? Okay, stop it. Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is the part I'm thinking of people watching this

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Speaker 2: on Netflix were the first time not knowing what this

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Speaker 2: podcast is and just being so.

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Speaker 3: Click away, click away now while you can.

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Speaker 2: This is like, this is pretty much what it's.

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Speaker 3: Like actually, but here's also what it's like.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: On episode four h two, entitled Staunch Women, I covered

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Speaker 1: the story of civil rights pioneer Claudette Colvin. She was

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Speaker 1: basically the first Rosa Parks. She did it when she

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Speaker 1: was fifteen, years old. She would not get up when

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Speaker 1: some white person demanded her seat on an Alabama bus,

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Speaker 1: and she died on January thirteenth of natural causes. She

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Speaker 1: was eighty six years old, and her namesake foundation released

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Speaker 1: the statement saying quote, it is with profound sadness at

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Speaker 1: the Claudette Colvin Foundation and Family announced the passing of

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Speaker 1: Claudette Colvin, a beloved mother, grandmother, and civil rights pioneer.

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Speaker 1: She leaves behind a legacy of courage that helped change

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Speaker 1: the course of American history. Incredible, So what a legacy? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and someone to read about and study. Listen to this

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Speaker 1: episode and learn how to resist. I'm very excited about

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Speaker 1: this story because it is truly a classic true crime

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Speaker 1: case and it's also a classic Forensic files. So you

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Speaker 1: and I probably have seen it recently, because when we

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Speaker 1: were on the road there were some classic Forensic.

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Speaker 3: Files that I was watching.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy to me that people bring their computers and

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Speaker 2: watch movies in hotel rooms, like you have Forensic Files

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Speaker 2: on twenty four to seven?

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Speaker 3: What are you doing from nine pm on? Like it's

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Order those chicken strips and a Caesar salad and fucking cookies. Cookies. Go. Okay.

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Speaker 1: This story begins in Kent County, Delaware, which is in

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Speaker 1: the Dover metro area. We rarely talk about Delaware.

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Speaker 2: No, we don't really do that doing it and we've

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00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,880
Speaker 2: never gone. Now I've dated someone from there, and you're

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Speaker 2: still mad about it. Scrapple, that's all I know about it.

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Speaker 3: That was its name.

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Speaker 2: Delaware.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Delaware. Okay. It's near the town of Harrington.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So this is the night of June twenty third, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety one. Okay, you're eleven, Oh my god, I am.

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Speaker 1: It's around midnight. A forty one year old man named

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Speaker 1: Charles Holden pulls up to his trailer after finishing his

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Speaker 1: shift at a factory job, and he sees a man

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Speaker 1: lurking nearby. He drives to a payphone, so this is

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Speaker 1: back in the time of payphone before cell phone's so weird,

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Speaker 1: I know. So he calls nine o one. He tells

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Speaker 1: the dispatcher there's a guy like lurking outside my house.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, gotta go, yeah exactly, and then he

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Speaker 1: asks for a police escort home. So he's really freaked out.

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Speaker 1: When the dispatcher asks Charles if he's aware of anyone

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Speaker 1: else being on the property. He tells them his seventy

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Speaker 1: year old mother, Dorothy Donovan, lives in the farmhouse that

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Speaker 1: his trailer is next to, so it's like his family property.

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Speaker 1: Charles is certain this person that he saw outside was

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Speaker 1: not his mother. He specifically tells the dispatcher quote, I

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Speaker 1: want to get someone there as soon as I can

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Speaker 1: because I don't want him breaking into my mother's So

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Speaker 1: he's scared, Okay. The police are dispatched to the property

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Speaker 1: and what they find inside the farmhouse is an absolute nightmare.

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Donovan has been murdered, and as Detective Captain Gregnault

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Speaker 1: will later remember, quote, it was a very bloody and

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Speaker 1: brutal crime scene. Blood everywhere, blood spatters throughout the bedroom

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Speaker 1: from that night when the investigation begins. This case will

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Speaker 1: sprawl out over several years and take some unbelievable twists

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00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: and turns as police try to piece together what happened

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00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: to this woman on that night in early summer in Harrington, Delaware.

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Speaker 1: This is the story of the hunt for Dorothy Donovan's killer, Wow,

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Speaker 1: and the main source used for the story today is

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00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight episode of Forensic Files. Entitled

441
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: Stranger in the Night, along with several articles that ran

442
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: in the Delaware based News Journal newspaper, and the rest

443
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: of the sources are in our show notes. Okay, so,

444
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: when investigators inspect Dorothy's farmhouse that night, they find the

445
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: back door window has been shattered. So the presumption is

446
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: the murderer broke in by reaching through that broken glass

447
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: and unlocking the door from the inside. And one of

448
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: the reasons they think that is because there's blood smeared

449
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: around the scene and forensic analysts conclude that that blood

450
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: does not belong to Dorothy. Investigators also find several fingerprints

451
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: and a partial palm print that are not hers. Police

452
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: run through potential motives. They don't think it's a botched

453
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 1: robbery because nothing's missing from the house.

454
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 3: Dorothy's purses, like right there.

455
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: There's the possibility that it's a sexually motivated attack, since

456
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: Dorothy's body was discovered in her bedroom positioned in a

457
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: way that leads investigators to consider this possibility. But really,

458
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: the sheer brutality of this crime, with Dorothy having been

459
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: stabbed more than two dozen times all about her face

460
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: and chest, is indicative of overkill, which suggests that This

461
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: is a very personal and a very angry attack. An

462
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 1: FBI profiler, quoted by the News Journal newspaper, goes so

463
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: far as to say, quote, some stranger did not break

464
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: into the house murder her and Eve. This is someone

465
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: who knows the victim, knows her well, and knows that

466
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: they can come here and that she will be the

467
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 1: only victim in the house.

468
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: Wow.

469
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: End quote. Okay, we have to start saying end quote

470
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 3: because we're on netplace.

471
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 2: Oh shit, are we journalists? Then?

472
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, at least we have to say end quote.

473
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 2: No, I don't like it, really No, you.

474
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 3: Want to keep it loose and open.

475
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell by the tone of voice that's

476
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: really true. I don't like end quote.

477
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: Right, And if you think this whole thing has been

478
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: a long quote since twenty sixteen, because I never say an.

479
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: Oh either, I don't want to Okay, the end, the end.

480
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: So hearing this by an FBI profiler is very confusing

481
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 1: to Dorothy's family, because they're adamant this woman has no enemies.

482
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: She lived a quiet life in her farmhouse after losing

483
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: her husband a few years before, and she's a beloved

484
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: mom of three and a grandmother to seven. She does

485
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: not have enemies, so the motive's unclear. But one person

486
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: who is being looked at very closely is Dorothy's son, Charles,

487
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: who made the nine one month call. It's said that

488
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: when Charles first sees his mother's body, he says, quote,

489
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: I can't believe he killed her.

490
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 3: I can't believe he killed her.

491
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

492
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: So the investigators it piques their interest because it's very specific.

493
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: When they ask Charles who he is, he tells them

494
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: he actually recognized the man he saw lurking on the

495
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: property that night. He says he doesn't actually know him

496
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: by name, but he claims that they'd had a chance

497
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: encounter earlier the same evening. So he explains that after

498
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: he clocked out from his four to eleven PM shift

499
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: at the factory job that day, he decides to stop

500
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: at Hardy's to pick up some dinner. Now, let's just

501
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: take a break for a second so I can explain

502
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: that Hardy's is the Midwest.

503
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: Carls Junior, you know how recently I ate the Midwest?

504
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 2: Carls Junior, how recently two nights ago?

505
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: What did you travel?

506
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: I'm depressed? Oh you know I have depression?

507
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: I see yeah, No, I mean, I'm sorry, fast food

508
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: gets it done for me.

509
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: Carls Junior is on another level for me, Like it's

510
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: a different What do you get a fucking Western mac

511
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: and cheeseburger? Since I was a child, the skinny little

512
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: girl pounding a fucking Western making cheeseburger and onion rings?

513
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: Like nobody's face.

514
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: Now do you get onion rings on the side, even

515
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: though there's onion rings on that burger?

516
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: What kind of rebel?

517
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 4: Are you?

518
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: A depressed one? Depressed one with depression?

519
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: It works though, Like, first of all, what a great

520
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: idea onion rings and barbecue sauce. Amazing those milkshakes.

521
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 2: Oh no, have you no, I can't.

522
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 3: Do you dare no get in there could cure your depression.

523
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: I'm the one who's won't even have a soda, you

524
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, I'm just here for the food,

525
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: just like I don't want an unhealthy soda.

526
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: Fucking did I tell you the story of the time

527
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: I was in the Wendy's drive through on Vermont and

528
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: the guy was I ordered them my thing, and I

529
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: was like, uh, whatever, cheeseburger and large fries and a

530
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: medium diet. He was like, why don't you just get

531
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: the regular, and I literally let it hang for like

532
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: five seconds. I was like, are you fucking kidding me, dude?

533
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: And he was like, oh sorry, your total is nine dollars.

534
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: He didn't go for the Sure. Look look at me

535
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: right now, though, What am I fucking talking about? It?

536
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: Like literally drinking up.

537
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, whether it's this, this is filled with

538
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: beet juice, go fuck yourself.

539
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 3: We all get to do whatever we want. Yeah.

540
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: I have a fucking full fat Coca Cola right now, gotcha,

541
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: And I'm enjoying it.

542
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: Whatever you want, whatever you want to get you through,

543
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: full permission to our listenership, get yourself through.

544
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, fight fight, fight, go, go go, and we're back.

545
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: So he stops at Hearty's the Midwest, Carls Junior to

546
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: get his food, goes inside, but then when he comes

547
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: back out, he's crossing the parking lot and he is

548
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: intercepted by a hitchhiker.

549
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: That's so weird? Should I always pronounce it that way?

550
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: Charles describes him as a black man in his thirties

551
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 1: with oversized glasses, standing around five foot nine, wearing a

552
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: plaid shirt and brown dress pants. He claims that this

553
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: man asked him for a ride to Georgetown, Delaware, which

554
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: is like twenty five miles away, and Charles told him, what,

555
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: isn't going to drive all that way, but that he

556
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: would take him down the road a few miles in

557
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: the direction he was going if that would help him,

558
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: And according to Charles, the hitchhiker took him up on

559
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: this offer. When Charles is about half a mile from

560
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: his own home, he tells the hitchhiker it's time for

561
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: him to get out of the truck. But instead of

562
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: getting out, Charles says, this man's mood abruptly changes. He

563
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: becomes irate and starts attacking Charles, demanding that he drive

564
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: him all the way to Georgetown. Charles tells investigators he

565
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: jumped out of the truck. He starts running away from

566
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: the hitchhiker who's now chasing him with a screwdriver that

567
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: he took off the floor of charles truck, and now

568
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: he's threatening to kill Charles if he doesn't keep driving

569
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: him all the way to Georgetown. So Charles says, he

570
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: tells the guy, Okay, fine, I will do it. I'll

571
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: drive you there. He calms him down a little bit.

572
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: They both start walking back to the truck, and then

573
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: Charles does the classic movere. He just takes off running,

574
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: jumps into the truck and takes off and it works.

575
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: So he basically leaves this like viol hitchhiker standing in

576
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: the middle of the street with a screwdriver in his hand.

577
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: So Charles says he's terrified that this man is going

578
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: to follow the direction of the truck on foot since

579
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: it's only like a half a mile away from where

580
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: he lives, and that if he sees Charles's truck on

581
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: the property, he's going to be like, I'm going to

582
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: go there.

583
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 3: That's where he is.

584
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: So Charles drives around for twenty minutes before he loops

585
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: back and heads to the property. But when he pulls

586
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: into the driveway, he sees the hitchhiker lurking, and that's

587
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: when he drives away, sees a payphone and makes the

588
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: call to nine one one.

589
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: So the detectives hear this.

590
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: Story out from Charles, but once he's done, they waste

591
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: no time telling him that they don't believe a single

592
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: word of it. It's so many coincidences. It's very rambling

593
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: and random, and one of the officers actually tells Charles

594
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: quote only an idiot would believe that story. Unquote Wow,

595
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: and it does sound unlikely, especially when you consider this

596
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: hitchhiker would have walked half a mile to Charles's house,

597
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: passing several other homes along the way, breaking in and

598
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: brutally murdering a defenseless woman sleeping inside.

599
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 3: But the truck isn't there.

600
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: He wouldn't know it was the man who he got

601
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: into this fight with his mother, And then it's like,

602
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: what is that all supposed to be a coincidence?

603
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: And then also like this fight he got into would

604
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: explain why there's like splashes and stuff like that. How

605
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: can venient Yeah.

606
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: And of course there have been tens of thousands of

607
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: crimes reported in this country where white people blame black

608
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: people a black man for the crime and they're lying.

609
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: So they basically say, we don't buy it.

610
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: Charles holds firm, he's adamant he's telling the truth. When

611
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: investigators remain suspicious, they tell Charles take a polygraph test,

612
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: and Charles says no. So that's not really surprising in

613
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: this day and age, because at this point, as we've

614
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: talked about a lot, we know that polygraphs aren't very

615
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: reliable but this is nineteen ninety one where it's kind.

616
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: Of suspicious if you don't if you say, now, it's suspicious.

617
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: Everybody's like, this is a lock, just like blood spatter.

618
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: What's the problem. From here, police have to continue building

619
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: the case. They create a composite sketch of Charles's purported

620
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: hitchhiker based on his description. They put it out to

621
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: the public, and actually, if you look through old newspaper

622
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: articles about Dorothy Donovan's murder, you can see this composite sketch.

623
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to have generated many leads. Meanwhile, the

624
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: medical examiner's report comes back with more details about Dorothy's murder.

625
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: It's based on the physical evidence that's being processed at

626
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: the crime scene. But these findings only bring more questions.

627
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: For example, the medical examiner is unable to find any

628
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: evidence confirming sexual assault, So this sexual angle has gotten

629
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: rid of as a motive. And actually they start to

630
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: think that maybe her body was posed in that slightly

631
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: suggestive way to throw police off and lead them down

632
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: that path. Then, and it's still early in the investigation,

633
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: police get bombshell information. They learn that not long before

634
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: Dorothy's death, she's taken out an accidental death insurance policy

635
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: and the beneficiary is her son, Charles. So then the

636
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: detectives find out Charles is in debt who isn't, although

637
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: we don't know how much, but it does point to

638
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: financial motivation. The police continue circling Charles as a suspect,

639
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: but the tests show that his blood is not a

640
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: match for the blood that was left at the scene,

641
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: and the pomp prints are clearly not a match. The

642
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: police consider the theory now that Charles could have hired

643
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: somebody else to commit the murder and then just go

644
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: in for a cut of that life insurance payout. But

645
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: the police don't have enough to arrest him, so they

646
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: try to find out if there's anything about his hitchhiker

647
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: story that is real. If this person actually exists, he

648
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: could either be the murderer or he could pee Charles's accomplice.

649
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: So maybe the hitchhiker story is Charles's way of covering

650
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: for himself if anyone saw him and that man together

651
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: that night. Oh yeah, okay, So detectives take that composite

652
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: sketch of the man. They track down several people who

653
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: were at hartyse the night of Dorothy's murder, and they

654
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: are able to confirm a huge piece of the story,

655
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: which is that there was in fact a man in

656
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: the parking lot that night approaching people and asking for

657
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: a ride, and he looks like the guy in the

658
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: composite sketch. Investigators compile photos of men with criminal records

659
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: who resemble this hitchhiker down to the oversized glasses, and

660
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: every person in this photo lineup is wearing glasses, so

661
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: when Charles has shown the pictures, he picks out the

662
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: one that he believes was the hitchhiker. Police also show

663
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: these photos to other witnesses and three of them identify

664
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: that same man that Charles does.

665
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: He's a thirty three year old.

666
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: Black man living in Harrington, miles from the murder scene.

667
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: He has a criminal record, but he has never committed

668
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: a violent crime. He's been convicted of forgery and petty theft.

669
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: But now given the multiple positive identifications, police think they

670
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 1: might have their man. But when the officers show up

671
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: to this man's house to question him, they immediately know

672
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: that he couldn't be Dorothy's killer because it's only a

673
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: week after the murder. This man opens the door and

674
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: he has a full beard. So not a single witness

675
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: mentioned anything about this hitchhiker having a beard. It's improbable

676
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: this man could have grown one in a matter of days,

677
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: so he is off the list. And then when they

678
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: run his prints, the man's palm prints are not a match.

679
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: On top of all of that, he has an alibi

680
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: that completely checks out. So few for that guy not actually,

681
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, being wrongfully arrested and committed to jail.

682
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: They've done it for less yeah, you know.

683
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: For real.

684
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: So that's now a dead end. And without modern day

685
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: DNA technology or forensic tools, these leads dry up, the

686
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: investigation peters out. Months pass and then years investigators still

687
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: believe that Charles has something to do with his mother's death.

688
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: You imagine, like the rest of his family, just having

689
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: to sit there not sure.

690
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: You're psychic, because that is what I'm about to tell

691
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: you about. Charles maintains his innocence, but the suspicion grows

692
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: in his family, and his own sisters.

693
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 3: Struggle to bloe leave the story shit.

694
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: Charles becomes more isolated as time passes, and then around

695
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, investigators working the case get access

696
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: to Cotis for the first time. We've talked about it

697
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: on They show a lot. It's the national DNA database

698
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: that they were developing since nineteen ninety one, but a

699
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't have access to it in the beginning,

700
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: so this was the first time investigators around the country

701
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: had access and it's helped solve countless crimes and cold.

702
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: Cases over the years.

703
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 1: So more than ten years after Dorothy donnovan is murdered,

704
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: the mystery blood sample from her farmhouse is inputed into

705
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: COTIS and investigators finally get a match. It belongs to

706
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: a man with a lengthy criminal record who served time

707
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: in Maryland around the late nineteen nineties for murder. In

708
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: the years since Dorothy's death, this man has been convicted

709
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: on drug and robbery charges and he served a stint

710
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: in prison for that. He'd since been released, and it

711
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: takes police more than two months to track him down,

712
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: and when they do, they track him down to a

713
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: home forty miles away from Dorothy Donovan's shit. The man's

714
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: named Gilbert Cannon. He's in his late thirties. He looks

715
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: a lot like the man in the composite sketch, but

716
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: when police bring him in for questioning, he denies any involvement.

717
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: Investigators start to confront him with the piles of evidence

718
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: against him, including DNA and print matches, and he buckles.

719
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: He tells investigators exactly what happened that night in June

720
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety one, and what he tells him is.

721
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 3: Basically exactly what Charles said.

722
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, how frustrating, so horrible. I told you exactly

723
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: what happened, like beat by beat and you and you went.

724
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 2: And it sounds fucking made up. It does.

725
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 3: It sounds entirely made up.

726
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: And luckily Gilbert Cannon did corroborate it, because he could

727
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: have just done that thing where he's like, deny, deny,

728
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: and go to jail, which a lot of them do.

729
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: He was in the Hardy's parking lot that night. He

730
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: was high on cocaine. He's looking to score more, presumably

731
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: in Georgetown, and that's why he needed a ride there.

732
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: Cor rates the entire rest of the story we've heard.

733
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: Charles offers to drive him a few miles up the road,

734
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Gilbert attacks Charles with the screwdriver. They fight in the street.

735
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: Charles offers him the full ride, and then he runs

736
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: back to his truck and gets away. Then Gilbert fills

737
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: in the rest of the gaps. He says he kept

738
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: walking down that road and then finally he decided he

739
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: needed to find somewhere to sleep. He tells investigators he

740
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: passed several houses, but they all had their lights on,

741
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: so he did not try them.

742
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: Don't tell me, it was just a fucking coincidence. Yep.

743
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 3: He arrived at Dorothy's house by sheer coincidence. The lights

744
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: weren't on.

745
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: It was just as Charles had feared when he saw

746
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: the man lurking and drove away.

747
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 2: He killed him.

748
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: Gilbert broke in through the back door. Between the sound

749
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: of the window being smashed and the creaky farmhouse floors,

750
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: Dorothy wakes up. Gilbert is in a drug frenzy, truly,

751
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: and just attacks her and stabs her with the screwdriver

752
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: and murders her brutally and horribly. Gilbert was fleeing the

753
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: scene when Charles arrived home. It doesn't seem like Gilbert

754
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: understands that the same man who'd given him a ride

755
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: and that he'd got in a fight with, yeah, was

756
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: now the one pulling in this driveway. He tells police

757
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: he acted alone and that he picked the home at random,

758
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: and when police tell him that it was that same

759
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: man's mother that he murdered, he is shocked. Dorothy's daughter

760
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: and one of Charles's sisters, Diana, tells forensic files that

761
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: Gilbert being shocked was quote, such a relief to us.

762
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: That showed us that Charles was not connected to him.

763
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he could have lied and said, yeah, he

764
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: hired me, so he gets a lighter sentence.

765
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I was just a dupe, right, yeah, Yeah,

766
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: and then the guilt you would feel that you did

767
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: not believe in your own brother, even though it would

768
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: be very hard to believe, Like all these things that

769
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: are happening, it's evidence, and it's like the part about

770
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: the death insurance was is terrible.

771
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, the randomness of it is what's so unbelievable. Yes,

772
00:36:58,719 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 2: that's true.

773
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: Inessing, Gilbert's arrested, and the following year, two thousand and seven,

774
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: he pleads guilty to Dorothy's murder. When he does, it

775
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: will have been sixteen years since Dorothy Donovan was murdered.

776
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: Gilbert's sentenced to life in prison without parole, and Dorothy's

777
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: surviving family members are left to pick up the pieces

778
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: after years of overwhelming grief losing their mom, along with

779
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: the family tension over the doubt around Charles's involvement. Finally,

780
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: Charles Holden is exonerated, but nothing can undo the nightmare

781
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: of being implicated in your own mother's death. For sixteen years,

782
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: little has been documented about how Charles felt during all

783
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: of this. Understandably, he had no interest in talking to

784
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: the press, but a two thousand and seven news journal

785
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: piece briefly touches on his experience, quoting his sister Brenda Alexander,

786
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: who says, quote, at the time of Canon's arrest, charles

787
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: sisters acknowledged that they were hard pressed to understand why

788
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: their brother would give a ride to a stranger, in

789
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: this case, one with an extensive Delaware criminal history dating

790
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty one, and his generosity caused a riff

791
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: among the siblings. But according to Alexander, an attempt at

792
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: reconciliation began Tuesday. We're working on it, she said. We

793
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: were all in court and we all went to eat afterwards.

794
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: We're working on it, but it's going to take time.

795
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

796
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: End quote. That's the incredibly tragic story of the murder

797
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 3: of Dorothy Donovan and the exoneration of her son Charles Holden.

798
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: Wow, I haven't seen that forensic viles. Yeah, that's I

799
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: didn't know. That's right.

800
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: That's it's like the thing people fear about being out

801
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: in the country that like, as far as I know,

802
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: growing up out in the country, never happens. And then

803
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this insane.

804
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, horrible story.

805
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah almost suddenly. Yeah that's wow. Yeah, great job, well,

806
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: great job, thank you, very classic true crime. This isn't that.

807
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 2: This is completely different than that.

808
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: This is the origin of Hardy. Oh, I'd love to

809
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: hear that.

810
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: No, it's worse. This is the story of the Gwyneth

811
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: Paltrow's ky collision trial.

812
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what a joy.

813
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on.

814
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 3: What a great idea.

815
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: It's not my idea, Molly and Ally get full of credit.

816
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 3: For you lunatics. I'm so excited, Like, Okay, I guess

817
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 3: it's such a good idea because here's the thing.

818
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: I think there was something else big happening in the

819
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: news at the same time, where I really there has

820
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: always been for ten years, right, but I felt like

821
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't focus on that the way I wanted to.

822
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just heard little blips about it not like

823
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: a whole thing about it, But you're about to hear

824
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: a whole fucking thing about it.

825
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 3: Bring it to me, please. Okay.

826
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: So it's late January twenty nineteen and we're in Park City, Utah.

827
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 3: You love to summer there, right, Oh?

828
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 2: I summer all the time in the snow. Why would

829
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: I summer in the snow? Who does that? Rich people?

830
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

831
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: A seventy two year old retired optometrist named Terry Sanderson,

832
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: or more likely one of his lawyers, files a lawsuit

833
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 2: in Utah's civil court that immediately generates headlines around the world.

834
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 2: His lawsuit is against Deer Valley, a nearby ski resort

835
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: known for its wealthy guests and impeccably groomed runs. It's

836
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: also against the person he collided with, a person we

837
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: all know from Shakespeare in Love and Sliding Doors, and

838
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: of course, goop, goop. This is the story of the

839
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrowski collision trial.

840
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: Amazing, but also it has the feeling already and I

841
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: think it's like, this guy hasn't done well in the

842
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: public eye. No, it's you saying that he sued Deer

843
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: Valley and her. It's like, ah, so everyone if you

844
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: can see it, like him breaking down in the parking

845
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: lot almost.

846
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of the sad story.

847
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: Okay, but I feel like it is.

848
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: But okay, you tell me. The main source of the

849
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 2: story is reporting from NBC and the rest of the

850
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: sources can be found in the show notes. Okay, So

851
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: we're back to the day it all happened. It's February

852
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: twenty sixth, twenty sixteen, and we're at Deer Valley on

853
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: a green run which I think is you know, easy

854
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: for babies. Yeah, called Bandana, and this is one of

855
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: the easiest runs on the mountain. It's a gentle, wide

856
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: slope that connects the summit to the Empire Canyon Lodge,

857
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: where you would find me if I were forced to

858
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 2: be there.

859
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm telling you, here's our cancelation. I fucking

860
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: hate skiing so much.

861
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: It was a activity that my single dad took us

862
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 2: to do because he didn't know what else to do

863
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: with us, like your kids. Yeah, and that's the last

864
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: time I did it, and I have no interest in

865
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: it at all. He took us a few times.

866
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: It's just so out of control, Like, and I get

867
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: that that's the appeal. It's very like surf and that

868
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: energy of like let's ride it and let's see what happens.

869
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: I hate let's see what happens energy for things like that,

870
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: for like physical things.

871
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: It was fun. I enjoyed it as a kid. As

872
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 2: an adult, I have no interest.

873
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: Did I tell you the story of with my ex

874
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: We went skiing one time to did a big skiing

875
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: family and I was like, I don't want to do this. Yeah,

876
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: I was like, come on, my dad will teach you.

877
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: He's a really good teacher. We literally spent like seven

878
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: minutes on the kid's slope and then he took me

879
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: up to a thing and I just like started going down.

880
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 1: My legs locked up and I was like I can't,

881
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: I can't go anywhere. I had to get taken down

882
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: on the ski patrols, like laying down like that, staring

883
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: up at the sky. It was so embarrassing and so hilarious.

884
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Gwyneth is forty four at the time and

885
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 2: is on the mountain with her two kids, Apple who's twelve,

886
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 2: and Moses who's ten. Moses like my cat, and she's

887
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: with her boyfriend, producer Brad Falceek, who they're now married

888
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: and a ski instructor named Eric Christiansen. The kids have

889
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 2: been getting a lesson from Eric, and Gwyneth and Brad

890
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 2: had been skiing with them, so kind of a family

891
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: lesson together. Sure, what happens next is up for debate.

892
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: According to Gwyneth, she's gently skiing down the slope.

893
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 3: Did she use the word gently immediately?

894
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 6: Right?

895
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: Well, so it's like an easy run, so it's not

896
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 2: like you have to be pro and you'd be going

897
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: fast or anything like that. Okay, So she's skiing down

898
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: the slope and then she sees two skis appear between

899
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: her skis, and then she feels someone press up behind

900
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 2: her and kind of grunt, and then the two of

901
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: them both crashed to the ground. So it's like someone

902
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: came up behind her and plowed into her. Gwyneth and

903
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: the man both freeze for a minute, and then she

904
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 2: yells at the guy who crashed into her. She later

905
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: says she yelled at him because she thought in the

906
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: moment he had done it on purpose. She's a famous

907
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: person and I'm sure she gets harangued in public all

908
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: the time, so she kind of thought it was one

909
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 2: of those experiences.

910
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 3: And what did she yell at him, goop goob.

911
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: And that grunt, the grunting thing was weird.

912
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 3: You know, Oh that's very jarring.

913
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she says she realizes in the moment that

914
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: it was an accident and apologizes for yelling. So her

915
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 2: kids instructor this guy. Eric helps the guy to his

916
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: feet and they have a brief exchange the guy in him,

917
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: and then everyone skis away kind of like this just

918
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: thing happened, and everyone is a little like, what the

919
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: fuck was that? Yeah? Yeah, Eric the teacher filed an

920
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: incident with deer Valley, describing the events this way, although

921
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: it sounds like he didn't see the moment of impact

922
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: himself and was just going mostly by what Gwyneth's description was.

923
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 2: But he writes that the man had said that Gwyneth

924
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: quote just appeared in front of him end quote. So

925
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: he's saying he didn't appear behind her, she just appeared

926
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: in front of him.

927
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: Unfortunately. I will just as a person who has gotten

928
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: rear rendered like three different cars in my life, it

929
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: doesn't work that way, right. If you're behind, that's your responsibility.

930
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because also, like I'm just picturing a slope, there's

931
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 2: no out of the blue.

932
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: Nope, unless I mean really fast. They're going really fast.

933
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: But yeah, you have full breadth of vision. Right, It's

934
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: not like she can't drop down in front of her, Right,

935
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: it's just a weird construct, right.

936
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, maybe you didn't see her in front of you,

937
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: but it doesn't I don't think she could have appeared

938
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 2: in front of.

939
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 3: You, breathalyzer.

940
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: That's actually I don't think that happened because everyone just left.

941
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: So everyone goes on with their lives for three years

942
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: or so, it seems. At some point the man. The

943
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: man is a seventy five year old His name is

944
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: Terry Sanderson, and he hires a lawyer. The lawyer goes

945
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 2: back and forth with Gwyneth's lawyers, which you know have

946
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 2: to be like the best in the fucking bizz just.

947
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: The power, the most power radiating off those men, the

948
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: secrets they are and women and women the secrets that

949
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: they can never tell.

950
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: Oh God, Gwenna's lawyers are like, fuck you, no way,

951
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, and so Terry files in early twenty nineteen.

952
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: The filing includes his version of the events, which are

953
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: that he was skiing down the slope when Gwyneth skiing

954
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: out of control, slammed into him from behind, knocking him

955
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: unconscious and breaking four of his ribs. So very different. Now,

956
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: the central question in this lawsuit will lie in one

957
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: key difference between Terry and Gwenny's stories, who was the

958
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 2: uphill skier. Every ski resort has apposted code of rules

959
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: that skiers are supposed to follow, and among these rules

960
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: is that downhill skiers have the right of way and

961
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 2: uphill skiers who fucking uphill skis.

962
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: Just for like the workout or maybe like to get

963
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: to the top of the I think they mean it's

964
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, like downstage and upstage in the theater.

965
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 3: They mean, like the skier behind.

966
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 2: Uphill got it, great job uphill.

967
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: There's ski is coming across like this right, everybody's.

968
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: Like clunking up this hill. Yes, okay, now that makes

969
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: total sense. So uphill skiers, downhill skiers, downhill people, the

970
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: people in front.

971
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: Of you have the right of way because you simply

972
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: can't control what's happening behind you when you cannot see it.

973
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: Truly, Yeah, Gwyneth and Terry each claimed to be the

974
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: downhill skier. So we do know that after the collision.

975
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: Let's call it. The Deer Valley Ski Patrol does bring

976
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: Terry down the mountain on a stre Sure, we're not

977
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: sure if he loses consciousness at any point, but being

978
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 2: brought down on a stretcher is common for anyone who

979
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 2: has any kind of injury on the mountain that can't

980
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: get down on his own.

981
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, you do know, I know, fund And

982
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: it's very shaming, and it takes forever, it feels like

983
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: four years, and people got to ski by you and

984
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: look down at you. You just have to like let

985
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: go and let god. It's horrible and can get a

986
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: hot toddy.

987
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: So Terry goes to urgent care later that day and

988
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: it sounds like he really did fracture some ribs. This

989
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: really probably was a very painful fall. And while he's there,

990
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 2: a friend who'd he'd been skiing with, a man named

991
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: Craig Ramon, first, tells him that the person he collided

992
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: with was Gwyneth Paltrow, So he didn't even know when

993
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: it happened that I was Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah, got all

994
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: those ski equipment things.

995
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: Weird yellow goggles.

996
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: Shortly after this, Terry sends out an email to his

997
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: entire family with the subject line that says I'm famous.

998
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 2: It details the crash.

999
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: Make that a phone call put in him right now.

1000
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: The exact contents of the email don't seem to be

1001
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: part of the public record, but Terry goes back and

1002
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: forth with one of his daughters about whether or not

1003
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,720
Speaker 2: someone on the trail might have gotten go Pro footage

1004
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: of the crash, but no footage ever materializes, and then

1005
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 2: three years passed before he eventually files the suit. Initially,

1006
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: he sues for three million dollars, yeah, naming both Gwyneth

1007
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 2: and Deer Valley in the lawsuit. And there's a flurry

1008
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 2: of reports about this lawsuit, at first only giving Terry's

1009
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: side of the story and claiming that eyewitness accounts from

1010
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 2: the slopes refute the incident report on file at Deer Valley.

1011
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: People love to hate on Cowneth Paltrow.

1012
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: She has been the subject of so much hatred basically

1013
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: since day one.

1014
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's somehow an easy target. And so the idea

1015
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: that she ran into someone and it is just a

1016
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: messy rich lady go go cope and scaleway and she

1017
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 2: now was you know, it'd hurt this souled man and everything.

1018
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: It's like people love that. They like that narrative.

1019
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: Well, it's a story. It's like, we got to feed

1020
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 1: this content machine.

1021
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: Right about a month later, so in February twenty nineteen,

1022
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: Gwyneth comes forward in statements through her representatives gives her

1023
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: version of events. So between twenty nineteen and when a

1024
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: case finally goes to trial in twenty twenty three, the

1025
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: amount Terry issuing four drops from three million to three

1026
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars. That is because it's not arbitrary. They

1027
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 2: drop a couple zeros please something. Because in Utah Civil

1028
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: court there's thresholds of amounts a plaintiff is seeking that

1029
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: determine how many witnesses they can call, and three hundred

1030
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: thousand is the threshold for the maximum number. So like,

1031
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 2: do they want to call more people? Do they not

1032
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: want to call more people?

1033
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like the more people you can call to

1034
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: prove it, the higher your number can be. But if

1035
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: you're fucking around and it's like there's only.

1036
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: Don't want about people called?

1037
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, then yeah, or.

1038
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: The less people called, the better your chances are of winning.

1039
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: Oh my right.

1040
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: My thinking was the less people called, the harder it

1041
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: is to prove the truth, so they can't go to

1042
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 1: those crazy levels. But like, if something happened that eight

1043
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: people were like, yes, that is exactly what happened, then

1044
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: it's easier to be like, then this is provably your fault.

1045
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: Or your fault.

1046
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: Okay, we are lawyers.

1047
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm just making everything up while I drink a big

1048
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: thing of beet juice.

1049
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: That's my new person.

1050
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 2: I should be suspicious enough already that.

1051
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 3: You're a lot of big glass of beet juice.

1052
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 2: So the case isn't going to try on till March

1053
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, and the fact that it goes

1054
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 2: to trial is all a testament to the fact that

1055
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,919
Speaker 2: Gwyneth and her legal team feel that fucking Terry has

1056
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: no case and it's absolute bullshit. By this point, they're

1057
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: suing each other. Terry sued Gwyneth for the three hundred thousand,

1058
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: and Gwyneth is counter suing Terry for one dollar. Oh yeah,

1059
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 2: plus her legal fees, which have to be astronomical God

1060
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: damn it. Right, So she's like, that's like the one

1061
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: dollar thing is So I don't want to call it

1062
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 2: petty because.

1063
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 3: It's I think it's fair.

1064
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just the go fuck yourself them out.

1065
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like, this is weird that you're doing this.

1066
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: But I will actually go and argue this with you

1067
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: because I don't want your money.

1068
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: I want you to easily give you three hundred thousand

1069
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 2: dollars and it wouldnt affect me for a fucking moment.

1070
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 2: But I'm not fucking doing it on principle because you're wrong,

1071
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: or you're like lying.

1072
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: And or yeah, or you're just like this is a

1073
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 1: money grab and so instead of getting a bunch of money,

1074
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm just going to prove that, like sometimes this is

1075
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: what happens to people. I mean, here's the thing. Gwyneth

1076
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: Paldro is like a perfect blonde NEPO baby Hollywood superstar. Yes,

1077
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: and god damn much for sure, but our culture loves

1078
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: to hate those women.

1079
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 2: That's like she's supposed to go into fucking accounting, Like

1080
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: what do you want from her?

1081
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: I know she has a perfect face, and she's really

1082
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: good at acting and she's like chill. Brad Pitt really

1083
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: liked her, like come on, give it up. But they

1084
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: should have tons of video on ski slopes like that,

1085
00:51:58,360 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: because it's be so hard to.

1086
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: Right just reliability alone.

1087
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: It had to be imagine the snowboarder that was like

1088
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: making his own video in the front ground and then

1089
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: uphill downhill skiers don't even know what he's got and

1090
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: he's like nan or nanair, and.

1091
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: Then the snowboarding influencer okay, one dollar, blah blah blah.

1092
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: And the trial is carried of course on court TV

1093
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: live and streamed on YouTube and is a huge sensation

1094
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: for some people, particularly when Gwyneth testifies for over an hour.

1095
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: Hell, yes, this feels very quarantine material to me totally,

1096
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: but I guess it was a little after Yeah, but

1097
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: maybe we're still traumatized enough to be.

1098
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 3: Like, is she in court? What's going on?

1099
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: Now?

1100
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? What's that?

1101
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 3: Where'd she get that turtleneck?

1102
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: She looks so classy in her besia's.

1103
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 3: And her shinon.

1104
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: So her testimony is a weird thing to watch. It

1105
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 2: does seem like one of Terry's lawyers is a little

1106
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: starstruck by Gwyneth Paltrow.

1107
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 3: So it's embarrassing.

1108
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: So the line of questioning is weird. She asks Gwyneth

1109
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: how tall she is and then like goes back and

1110
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: forth of like I'm so jealous or so it's just weird.

1111
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: It's awkward and uncomfortable and weird.

1112
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 3: I don't know what are you doing?

1113
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean honestly, it is just just like, say, buddy,

1114
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: he's kind of a weird. Oh no thing, and that's

1115
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 2: his lawyer, so he was probably just like, fucking great.

1116
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: It would have been hilarious if she came out fucking

1117
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 1: guns ablazing. It was like, shut up immediately, just tries

1118
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: to get in her face.

1119
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's really weird, she asked Gwyneth if

1120
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 2: she knows Taylor Swift. Yeah, it's just weird.

1121
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 3: No, can I remember, yeah exactly.

1122
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 2: Do you guys want to go out sometimes?

1123
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 3: That's really bad?

1124
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1125
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 1: And also that poor man who's like, oh, I kicked

1126
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: up all this dust and now he's like slowly watching

1127
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: it all fade away.

1128
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: Right, and it's live, so you can't be like never mind.

1129
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: So there's lots of moments that become TikTok fodder in

1130
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: this testimony. In the case, Gwyneth gives her version of

1131
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: events again, and when asked if the collision disrupted her vacation,

1132
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: she's says, quote, well I lost half a day of

1133
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 2: skiing end quote, which like I don't know why. Defending

1134
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 2: her in this thing. I'm like, she doesn't fucking mean

1135
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 2: me too, but it is like it almost sounds like

1136
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 2: she was being facetious. She's like, that's all that happened.

1137
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: I lost a day of skiing, and this guy's fucking

1138
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: suing me for three million dollars, you know, like it

1139
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: wasn't a big deal. But people take it as like

1140
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,479
Speaker 2: a out of touch half a heck, yeah exactly. Yeah.

1141
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: So but this woman, she's always on the grind for

1142
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: you people.

1143
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 3: You know, she's like, she never stops working. Can't she

1144
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 3: have a half a day of skiing?

1145
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1146
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: Without everybody being like fuck you? Totally so fine whatever,

1147
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 1: I'll defend her.

1148
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 3: I don't care at this point. I'll defend her.

1149
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: Because because also after it happened, she packed in for

1150
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: the day and went and got a massage instead, because

1151
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: she's like, yeah, someone just fucking clobbered me. She's made

1152
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: of money, and I'm so fucking and I'm going to paltrone.

1153
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: Her choice is like, go pick a diamond necklace, eat

1154
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: fucking caviart, or go get a.

1155
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: Massage, Like what would you do?

1156
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1157
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 2: You do that?

1158
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: What do you want her to go down and work

1159
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: at the buffet it's Gwyneth fucking Paltrow. She's never lifted

1160
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: a finger, nor should she have had to. No, thank you,

1161
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 1: Blake Dana for bringing this perfect child into the world.

1162
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 2: We are going to Paltrow stands here.

1163
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: It turns out we are the phoniest assholes in all

1164
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 1: of show business.

1165
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 2: You know, we're just like just as bad as the

1166
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 2: lawyer kissing her ass.

1167
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: But I think there is a piece of it where

1168
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: it's like this must happen to her or that type

1169
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: of person.

1170
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, non fucking.

1171
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 2: Star, like you just can't win. Yeah, anything you say

1172
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: is going to be torn apart.

1173
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 3: Did you see Marty Supreme?

1174
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: Gwyneth is in it as this like actress who is

1175
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, slightly older, fucking incredible.

1176
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 3: She is a movie star.

1177
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: She is.

1178
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: That's the other thing.

1179
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: It's like just I think when people get around movie stars,

1180
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: whether they sue them or like try to be friends

1181
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: with them, there's just a weird magic in your head.

1182
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 3: It makes you a little crazy. What's your Odessa?

1183
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: That chick who's in Marty's with the curly hair.

1184
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,720
Speaker 3: Oh, she's so's.

1185
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 2: In I love La And it's she's like she's so good.

1186
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 2: One of the reasons to watch it. She's just incredible.

1187
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: I got to see that Odessa Azion. Okay, she's just

1188
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 2: like magnetic.

1189
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: I like that movie.

1190
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: But my sister had to go out and stand in

1191
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 1: the lobby for a while because she was over All

1192
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: of her senses were overwhelmed. Why because you have to

1193
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: watch it, but the soundtrack is absolutely insane.

1194
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 2: I can't watch. I have a sensory issue. I can't

1195
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 2: watch it.

1196
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah she does too, Oh good, you text her?

1197
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to like outside her senses. That's

1198
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 2: what we don't like is to be texted. Okay. So

1199
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: Terry's ski buddy, that guy Craig Ramon takes the stand.

1200
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 2: He's considered to be the only eyewitness to the actual collision.

1201
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 2: He of course backs up his friend Terry's story. He

1202
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 2: says that he heard a quote, blood curdling scream end

1203
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: quote nice thank you before seeing Gwyneth, out of control

1204
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: slam into Terry.

1205
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 3: The woman has been on ski slope since she was

1206
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 3: like probably.

1207
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: Four years old. Totally right. He also has questioned about

1208
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 2: a Facebook post he made surely after the collision, claiming

1209
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: Gwyneth quote took Terry out end quote. You know who

1210
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 2: knows what the fuck. They're just trying to make it

1211
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 2: seem like it's her fault obviously.

1212
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 3: Well, he has broken ribs, I mean, like.

1213
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, the broken ribson. But also he was an I'm sorry,

1214
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 2: but like he's an older gentleman, right, but she wasn't

1215
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: hurt at all, and he broke four ribs. Not to

1216
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: say that. It just seems like disparate stories. Yeah, and

1217
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: it might be more about you and your body than.

1218
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: The crash, right, you know, yes, I just need to

1219
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: know who the uphill and down the Heill skiers were,

1220
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: because that's all of a sudden. People being like no,

1221
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: no I was in front is crazy and infuriating, I'm sure.

1222
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then of course Eric the ski instructor, who

1223
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: we must imagine is gorgeous and like, you know, fucking

1224
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: Fabio in the move, Like let's just picture that because

1225
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: it's fun. Please and Stone and Stone and had a

1226
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 2: fucking bird him in the face. Backs up Gwyneth version

1227
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: of it what happened. He says she's a decent skier

1228
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: and that she had been making good turns, and that

1229
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 2: she had been skiing calmly, you know, normally disputes the

1230
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 2: blood curdling scream saying, quote, miss Paltrow doesn't go down

1231
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: the hill screaming. There would be no reason for her

1232
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: to be screaming just to scream. End quote.

1233
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 3: Well, no, that that's not the claim. The claim is

1234
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 3: like coming in like that.

1235
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you picture Gwyneth Paltrow is screaming and out

1236
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 2: of control, a fucking craziness on like a bunny slope.

1237
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: It just does and knows how to ski.

1238
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: It's a bunny slope, or it's a green green slope

1239
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: slope it's bunny like or not?

1240
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 2: Is that not.

1241
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: Bunny's the one that's like there's almost no incline whatsoever.

1242
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: But then the other one's kind of like, okay, pretty serious.

1243
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 2: So he and Terry's lawyers have a long back and

1244
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: forth about whether or not Eric yelled at Terry. There's

1245
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: all this like fucking they're just questioning the teacher.

1246
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: And he's like, hey man, hey man, look dish. She's

1247
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: trying to do my job with rad the snow baby.

1248
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 2: The case probably falls apart for good. When Terry is

1249
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 2: questioned in his suit, he lists many health problems that

1250
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 2: he's suffered since the collision, but Gwyneth's legal team also

1251
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: determined that he had most of these conditions before the

1252
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 2: condition preexitioning. Also, it's determined that his eyesight in one

1253
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: eye was already fairly impaired at the time of the collision.

1254
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: I feel sensitive towards him because he's my dad's age.

1255
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, I just feel sensitive, right, like it

1256
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: sucks to get into a ski accident.

1257
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: What's happening.

1258
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he claims he's suffered debilitating health issues in the

1259
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: years since, but gwennis legal team points out that he

1260
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: had also traveled extensively after the accident, taking trips to Europe, Peru, Morocco,

1261
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 2: the Canary Islands, Thailand, and Costa Rica where he zip lined.

1262
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 2: In the end, Gwyneth winds up winning the case and

1263
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: is awarded the one dollar in damages. Ultimately, Terry winds

1264
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 2: up not having to pay her legal fees because it

1265
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 2: would have been a huge amount of money. And you know,

1266
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 2: kudos to her for like not making him do that.

1267
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 3: Being decent.

1268
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: After the verdict is read, when everyone is leaving the courtroom,

1269
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 2: this is just I mean, it's what do you think

1270
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: of this moment? It's so beautifully petty, right, it's.

1271
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: Hilarious, and I I also don't know if she meant

1272
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: it in a petty way.

1273
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 2: I think she was being sincere.

1274
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: I do too, because I totally do.

1275
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: It's like you and I would do it and absolutely

1276
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: be sarcastic.

1277
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: Okay, here, let's say it. Let's go.

1278
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 3: She's a classy effort.

1279
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 2: She goes by him and leans down and whispers in

1280
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 2: his ear. It's on video. She whispers, I wish you well.

1281
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 2: So you could go I wish you well. Yeah, or

1282
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: you can go I wish you well.

1283
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could lock eyes and be like, dude, yeah.

1284
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: Like you wish well. I think the way when you

1285
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 2: watch the video, it doesn't have a pettiness. I don't know.

1286
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 2: I don't see the pettiness.

1287
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: But she's wearing a lot of cashmere, so lots give

1288
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: her the benefit.

1289
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: Smells amazing too.

1290
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 3: She has this really good glowey primer on.

1291
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 2: Her skin is perfect, her hair as perfect. She smells great.

1292
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: I wish you well.

1293
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 3: I wish you well end quote.

1294
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 2: And that you know that is my wishing them well?

1295
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 2: Is my talking shit that Like, I'm not going to

1296
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 2: talk shit. I'm just gonna say I'm wishing them well.

1297
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 3: And then you talk after Yeah.

1298
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 2: When I talk shit.

1299
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: I'm just like, what are you? Who are you talking about?

1300
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 3: You don't talk shit?

1301
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: Is that Georgia? I don't know her. I wish well

1302
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 2: end quote. The reporters asked Harry if he whispered anything

1303
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: back to her. He answers that he said, quote, thank you, dear.

1304
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 3: Oh so they kind of ended friends.

1305
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like ended on a This is stupid and we

1306
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 2: both can acknowledge that and like let's move on with

1307
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 2: our lives.

1308
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, hey, look, is this an opportunity

1309
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: to make a cool easy two million dollars?

1310
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 5: Right?

1311
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 3: Like this is what people do because the courts are unregulated.

1312
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: Oh that way, totally watched the McDonald's Hot Coffee documentary.

1313
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god. To this day, he stands by his

1314
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 2: version of events. He has to, and that is the

1315
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: story at the Gwyneth paltrow ski collision trial.

1316
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: Now, do you think she really was innocent or do

1317
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: you think that she was just the more appealing witness

1318
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: than him.

1319
01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: I don't think his version of events not maliciously. Yeah,

1320
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: you know, if you were younger, I think I'd think

1321
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 2: it was malicious and like a money grab. But I

1322
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 2: just don't buy it. And then also like, you weren't

1323
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 2: hurt that bad. You didn't. You're blaming her for that,

1324
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 2: but you're living your life.

1325
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, you're in San maritz Also, I think

1326
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: if it was a big smash up, yeah, there would

1327
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: be way more witnesses and way more people, and like.

1328
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: An incident report because places like that are immediately for

1329
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,959
Speaker 2: insurance reasons, going to be like, I know everyone's fine,

1330
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 2: but we need to write out the report.

1331
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: Didn't eric the scan instructor after the fact, which is good,

1332
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, they would have. Yeah, it wasn't all

1333
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: hands on deck because there's this big, terrible.

1334
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 2: Accident, right, Yeah, So that to me is weird as well.

1335
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 3: Did they show pictures of her and her ski outfit?

1336
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 2: Oh? I didn't see. She looks cute.

1337
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, elite.

1338
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: Why are we kissing her ass so much?

1339
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: No? No, I'm not trying to I'm not I am.

1340
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there's what do we get out of it?

1341
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: Free goop?

1342
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 3: Free goop.

1343
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,919
Speaker 1: I think it's an interesting thing when you are kind

1344
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: of at the hands of the public in that way.

1345
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 2: You're like the public property.

1346
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: You're not a real person anymore, right, And then it's

1347
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,919
Speaker 1: like even just we bumped into each other. Now you're

1348
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: going to pay me money.

1349
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 2: Totally, and like the three years later thing, Yeah, three

1350
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 2: years later afterwards is when he started seeing her.

1351
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: You had to go on vacation to eight places, right,

1352
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: but also in fairness, if she did come through and

1353
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: smash into him and break his ribs and ski away

1354
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: like too bad chunks totally, and then he's just like,

1355
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: no one's ever going to be on my side because

1356
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: it's Gwyneth Paltrow.

1357
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: H And I've had to go through all these things

1358
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: because of broken ribs, which is really fucking painful, and yeah,

1359
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 2: makes Zip Lanning really hard. Then, like, I don't know,

1360
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: he reminds me of my dad a little, so I'm like,

1361
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 2: don't want to I know, you know, I know it's

1362
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 2: like this like sweet old look, oh man looking guy.

1363
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: That was such a good idea and such a like yeah,

1364
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: it's almost like, hey, let's read the newspaper together.

1365
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 2: Totally, but it's true crime, tell you it is. It

1366
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: says different.

1367
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 3: Here's the thing.

1368
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: I do think that if this was different, she wouldn't

1369
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: have done the one dollar, she wouldn't have waived I

1370
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: legal fees, like all of those moves. Belie at least

1371
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: like a good faith person.

1372
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 2: It's that thing of like my integrity is on the

1373
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: line here. Yeah, and I refuse to back down because

1374
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 2: you're lying because that's not true. Yeah. So I don't

1375
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 2: think she would have done that if it were true.

1376
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: Right, But I do think it was like very close

1377
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: to the Johnny Depp Ambrosar thing.

1378
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 2: It felt similar.

1379
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: It was it felt like it was right there where

1380
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: you're just like, what's happening? All of a sudden, Court

1381
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: TV is back and better than ever?

1382
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: Why is this entertainment? I know it shouldn't be. That's

1383
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 2: the downfall of Wait a second, this is a true

1384
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 2: grand podcast. On a second, Okay, all right, that's fucking it.

1385
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: Well, that was a great way to distract from our horror.

1386
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: We did that, Yes we did.

1387
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: I don't feel as bad as I thought I would

1388
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 2: at the end of the story.

1389
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm sorry Gwenna, but I feel fucking great after. You're nuts.

1390
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: So you're nuts experienced and I'm sorry broken ribsman. Because

1391
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: if you are right and the world is against you,

1392
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: what a tragedy?

1393
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 2: True truly, in this day and age of all that's

1394
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 2: a tragedy of all tragedies.

1395
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 3: What if she leaned forward and said, what does it

1396
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 3: peace be with you? What did she say?

1397
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 2: I wish you well.

1398
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 3: I wish you well.

1399
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: But then she very quickly winked with one eye. Think

1400
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: it's just like just like no, I don't.

1401
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1402
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, amazing, good distraction, Thank you, great story.

1403
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.

1404
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1405
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 2: So, now that we're back in the real world, we

1406
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 2: want to throw some money at the problem by donating

1407
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars to the ACLU.

1408
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: Well, considering everything that's going on, what if we give

1409
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars?

1410
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 2: Love it. Let's do it in the name of Murderinos

1411
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 2: and all of you guys for just supporting us and listening.

1412
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 3: Thank you and anything you can do go on social media.

1413
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: The people of Minneapolis need your help, need your support,

1414
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: probably money or donations.

1415
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of services.

1416
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: This is really an insane situation that everyone is in

1417
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: and whether you can volunteer, give five dollars, or just

1418
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: give a shit and pay attention.

1419
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 2: This is a pivotal moment. Yeah. I think it's going

1420
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,439
Speaker 2: to be historical, so let's be on the right side

1421
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 2: of history.

1422
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 3: God anyway, stay sexy.

1423
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 2: Meant don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

1424
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 4: What gets you to believe in something? And I mean really,

1425
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 4: really believe to the point that you'd be willing to

1426
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 4: travel thousands of miles and put your faith, even your

1427
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 4: own body on the line for it.

1428
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 7: Desperate, That's what I was weighing, freaking eighty pounds with

1429
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:41,919
Speaker 7: a child to raise.

1430
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 5: We went to multiple doctors. They couldn't figure out what

1431
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 5: was actually the problem.

1432
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 2: Any ganges.

1433
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,919
Speaker 8: Nobody told me they were going to cure my father.

1434
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 8: No doctor, neurosurgeon, but he said evolved. Also, I'm going

1435
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 8: to cure your father, and I believed it.

1436
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 4: How long are you willing to hold that belief until

1437
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 4: you question the whole thing?

1438
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 3: Well, mister Tabala, as they would say, either I believed

1439
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 3: in him or I believed in death March.

1440
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 4: I had to believe in them. Juelte Cheeda de Fadilla,

1441
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 4: better known as John of God, is a Brazilian spiritual

1442
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 4: healer who over five decades grew into one of the

1443
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 4: most famous healers in the world.

1444
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 5: He had healed the wives of ministers, presidents, and honors

1445
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 5: of big companies. This is real. This guy's actually doing

1446
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 5: surgery and it's a miracle. I never believe that miracles real.

1447
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 5: Until that point.

1448
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 6: You had literally thousands of people in what milling around

1449
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 6: and everyone tells you how they've been saved by this person.

1450
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 6: After a while, I was like, well, can all these

1451
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 6: people be wrong?

1452
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 4: But while he drew thousands of followers who claimed he

1453
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 4: cured their cancer or helped them walk again, over time

1454
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 4: a darker side began to reveal itself.

1455
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 7: One of the reason why I never went to the

1456
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 7: police is because I saw at least five or six

1457
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 7: men with guns everywhere he went. That was clear to me,

1458
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 7: like close your mouth, will open your mouth and say anything.

1459
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 4: From exactly right media and Adonde media. This is Two

1460
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 4: Faced John of God. I'm executive producer and host Martina Castro,

1461
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 4: and over the course of the next six episodes, I'll

1462
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 4: tell you how this man painted himself as a gifted healer,

1463
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 4: but as his power and influence grew, he used it

1464
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,759
Speaker 4: to lead a double life, one driven by intimidation, greed,

1465
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 4: and sexual assault.

1466
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,440
Speaker 3: It's very difficult, and it's very also lonely.

1467
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 2: One small person against God.

1468
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,560
Speaker 4: Listen to Two Faced John of God on the iHeartRadio

1469
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 4: app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, and

1470
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:09,480
Speaker 4: Spanish speakers with aucas and epanol who can Ados gas juanidios.

1471
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production.

1472
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1473
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1474
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 3: Our editor is Aristotle ass Vedo.

1475
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,480
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Leona Scuillacci.

1476
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 3: Our researchers are Mary mclachan and Ali Elkin.

1477
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail.

1478
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: Dot com and follow the show on Instagram at my

1479
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: Favorite Murder.

1480
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1481
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your.

1482
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 3: Podcasts, or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for

1483
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 3: My Favorite Murder, then like and subscribe.

1484
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 2: Goodbye,