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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, there's Jerry Rush

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Speaker 1: Rush Rush, Jerry. This is Stuff you Should Know. The

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Speaker 1: Breakup edition, right, three people who you've never broken up

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Speaker 1: with one another? No, that's true, The Plus three Great

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Speaker 1: Point Modern Triad. Yeah, the Tryad. So Hey, before we

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Speaker 1: get going, we want to tell everyone alright, at the

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Speaker 1: end of this episode and before listener mail, actually instead

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Speaker 1: of listener mail, we're gonna have in a couple of

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Speaker 1: dudes from new show on our network and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: break up in front of us. No. There shows called

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Speaker 1: how to Money, and these guys are local and they

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Speaker 1: were big Stuff you should Know listeners, Matt and Joel,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, we want to start a podcast

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Speaker 1: about finance and money matters in life that's sort of

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Speaker 1: like what you guys do, that's approachable and real and

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Speaker 1: just like a couple of people talking normal but about money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's really really good. Yeah. So we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: those guys on at the end for a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: But it's a show I think everyone would love, so

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Speaker 1: stick around for that. Cool. Uh. So I picked this

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Speaker 1: one out because mainly, um it, uh, this is a refrain.

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Speaker 1: We get an email a lot um we hear from

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Speaker 1: heartbroken people a lot more than you would think that

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Speaker 1: are just like that's so sad heart and you uh,

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Speaker 1: you guys have helped me with this show as a distraction,

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Speaker 1: which we will learn is one of the official ways

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Speaker 1: to get over a breakup. Yeah, look over here, Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: Um So it just got me thinking about, like, is

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Speaker 1: there any science behind breakups and the emotions that go

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Speaker 1: along with it? And it turns out there's a lot,

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Speaker 1: like a disturbing amount of study has been done. When

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Speaker 1: you look at it, you're like, oh man, maybe you

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Speaker 1: should have allocated that money towards research toward other things

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Speaker 1: like cancer. Yeah, although social psychology couldn't do anything about cancer. No,

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Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's not like they're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll just it's all taken from one big pool, so

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Speaker 1: we'll just allocate some of this break up money towards

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Speaker 1: cancer research. Well, you could allocate the money, but the

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Speaker 1: mental energy, I guess is what I'm talking about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this that was just it seemed like study after study,

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Speaker 1: and and also we should point out to that I

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Speaker 1: think there was one case in here of one study

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Speaker 1: where they looked at homosexual couples, But most of this

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Speaker 1: study is like cis gendered straight couples through that lens,

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Speaker 1: only they're not doing a ton of research outside that.

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Speaker 1: I found. I found one that UM that that tracks

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Speaker 1: um it core relates the likelihood of breaking up to time,

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Speaker 1: and they had it broken out by same sex and

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Speaker 1: um straight, married, and unmarried. Those were like the four categories.

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Speaker 1: So some people are doing it, but yeah, for the

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Speaker 1: most part now. And I think one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why I chuck is a lot of this is from

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Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, early two thousand tens, and that

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Speaker 1: was you know, that was about the last the last,

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Speaker 1: like the tail end of that. Now I think it's

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Speaker 1: starting to change, fortunately, right because people of all genders

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Speaker 1: and sexual orientation break up and get dumped, and we're

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Speaker 1: here to help all of you. So buckle in, grab

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Speaker 1: a hanky, and let's get through this. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's we should go ahead and start out by saying

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Speaker 1: I guess that um in theory, more people are breaking

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Speaker 1: up now because people are generally waiting longer to get married.

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Speaker 1: So if you could extrapolate that if you're not married

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Speaker 1: for in more years than let's say our parents were,

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Speaker 1: then maybe you've gone through a couple of more breakups

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Speaker 1: along the way. Yeah, we should give a shout out

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Speaker 1: to Kristen Conger of Unladylike Media congs who wrote this

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Speaker 1: article our old pal and she points out that that

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Speaker 1: typically means that you are going to find somebody who

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Speaker 1: you work with rather than rushing into it. But it also,

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Speaker 1: as she puts it, like leaves the window open longer

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Speaker 1: for heartbreak to be dumped. One thing I saw, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: this is mind boggling to me. Of people, according to

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Speaker 1: this one study, um will be dumped in their lifetime,

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Speaker 1: will experience being a breakup in their lifetime? That means

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Speaker 1: of humanity won't. That is, those are some interesting people

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Speaker 1: have not had a breakup or been broken up with,

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Speaker 1: will not in their lifetime just going to either never

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Speaker 1: have a relationship or the first time they're going to

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Speaker 1: hit it out of the park. But that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: like or settle. I've never been dumped. Yeah, like they'll

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Speaker 1: never have gone through a breakup, But I've been through

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Speaker 1: breakups I've done. I've been the dumper, right, I know

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. No, I believe that they will not

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Speaker 1: have experience a breakup in their lifetime. Either way, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's great. That means say I met the person that

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Speaker 1: they love when they're young, probably again. Or it means

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Speaker 1: that they decided to live their life alone just fine, right,

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Speaker 1: or or both they like I said, they decided to like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stick with this person. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to. I want to be what. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to ruin my record, a spotless record. I think it's

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Speaker 1: very interesting here that um supposedly and this is very

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Speaker 1: hanky how they found this out about the spikes and

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Speaker 1: breakups from like that's a Facebook data place. He doesn't count.

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Speaker 1: Social psychology doesn't count. I agree, But it doesn't make

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Speaker 1: a little bit of sense. And I could see this

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Speaker 1: being true that generally dumping someone or getting broken up

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Speaker 1: with can happen on any day of the year, but

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Speaker 1: there are spikes in early December, in early March because

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Speaker 1: of Christmas holidays, in spring break. Yeah, and technically you

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Speaker 1: could see that being true. There has I'm sure it's

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Speaker 1: true at least on Facebook and yeah, this is a

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Speaker 1: pretty big day to pull. But it's like, that's so lazy.

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Speaker 1: It's lazy, but I could see it because it's it

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Speaker 1: makes a little bit of sense that you would not

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Speaker 1: want to go through the holidays with someone that uh

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Speaker 1: and you send a thing to. And this is important

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Speaker 1: to point out, like when the breakup happens, when that

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Speaker 1: talk or these days text message or phone call happens,

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Speaker 1: that is the end of something for maybe both of you,

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Speaker 1: but definitely one of you. Yeah, sometimes most of the

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Speaker 1: time that that actual act of saying we're breaking up,

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Speaker 1: that's at the end of many, many weeks or even

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Speaker 1: months or even years of contemplation about whether or not

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Speaker 1: you want to still be with this person. Right, And

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Speaker 1: that's why being broken up with is almost across the

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Speaker 1: board way harder than breaking up because by the time,

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Speaker 1: like you said, by the time the person who initiates

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Speaker 1: the breakup initiates the breakup, this is this is at

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Speaker 1: the end of a long road of decision making, whereas

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Speaker 1: the other person might have been blissfully unaware or at

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Speaker 1: least willfully ignorant um or not willing to address the issues.

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Speaker 1: And so they are one way or another largely caught

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Speaker 1: off guard by being broken up with. So the person

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Speaker 1: who does the breaking up has already gone through all

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Speaker 1: these stages of grief of separation, Whereas now it's this person,

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Speaker 1: the person who's just been dumped, it's their time to

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Speaker 1: go through. Right. So if you're if you're doing the dumping,

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Speaker 1: like the hour after you have that conversation, you're like,

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Speaker 1: what a relief, I'm I'm starting over. Let's go get

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Speaker 1: some gin, whereas the dumpy is like that, goes get

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Speaker 1: some jew. That begins, That begins their process. Although the

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Speaker 1: only thing I'll take issue with that whole line of

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Speaker 1: thought though, is that a lot of people, even that

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Speaker 1: might get dumped, aren't like what like they may have

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Speaker 1: known and just didn't want to admit it or weren't

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Speaker 1: brave enough or strong enough to do it themselves. Um

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Speaker 1: and I agree with you on that. I think that

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Speaker 1: there's still a thread that they had not been preparing

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Speaker 1: themselves just by being insane, denial, unwilling to address it,

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Speaker 1: face it. Now they have no no choice but to

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Speaker 1: face reality, whereas the person who did the breakup was

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Speaker 1: like facing reality and coming to terms with it quietly

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Speaker 1: and then now it's your right, which brings me back

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Speaker 1: to my original point, which is Christmas and spring break

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Speaker 1: make a little bit of sense because the person who

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Speaker 1: was desperate to get out of a relationship and break

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Speaker 1: up with somebody, they're staring at those Christmas holidays and

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Speaker 1: that first week of descend rolls around. They're like, I

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Speaker 1: gotta do this now because I don't want to travel

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with this person and get through

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Speaker 1: the whole gift thing, and the holidays are just it's

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Speaker 1: tough to be in a relationship that's a lie. Well sure,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, holidays are so about like connecting and

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Speaker 1: feeling and warmth and all that, and if you're faking

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Speaker 1: it or have to fake it, you know, some people

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Speaker 1: are like, I'm not going through that. I also saw

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Speaker 1: an explanation in Harper's Bizarre of All Places that some

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Speaker 1: people may do that because of the pressure of coming

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Speaker 1: up with a really good gift, that the relationship is

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Speaker 1: not worth the pressure of coming up with a good

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Speaker 1: gift outweighs the value of the relationship to those people.

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Speaker 1: Or there are some people who don't want to put

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Speaker 1: their significant other through that, so they just break up proactively,

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Speaker 1: which also means that they didn't value the relationship that

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Speaker 1: much either, But at least in their mind, they're not

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Speaker 1: doing it for themselves. They're doing it for the other

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Speaker 1: person because they don't want to put the other person

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Speaker 1: through that that sure of having to get the perfect gift. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've never had that thing either, where you start dating

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Speaker 1: someone and it's like a couple of weeks for their

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Speaker 1: birthday or Christmas, and you'r and then that pressure of like, man,

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Speaker 1: how do I play this one? You know, a couple

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Speaker 1: of after a couple of weeks, yeah, this person? Or

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Speaker 1: but how do how deep do I go on this gift? Here?

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Speaker 1: I don't really know you, So I got you a

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Speaker 1: basket of socks. Everyone loves socks. So here's an Amazon

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Speaker 1: gift card forty eight fifty right after a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: That's a little that's a little close to come up

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Speaker 1: with a perfect gift or even be expected to. And

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Speaker 1: I did mention breaking up by text or whatever, like

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Speaker 1: you would suspect if you were born before nineteen five,

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Speaker 1: like myself, Um, you break up in person supposedly about

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Speaker 1: seventy at the time. Post if you were born less

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Speaker 1: than fifty percent the time you're gonna do that in person?

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Speaker 1: And they say generation? Why whatever that is? I think

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Speaker 1: it's millennials, is it? I'm pretty sure when did they

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Speaker 1: name them? The like? Do they know what? Like? Does

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Speaker 1: my daughter have a generation already? I don't know like

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Speaker 1: a name. I'm sure somebody out there is your daughter's generation.

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Speaker 1: You're annoying? No box her in right? Well, you got

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Speaker 1: a pigeonhole, folks. Let her grow up, be her own person.

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Speaker 1: But if you are gen y, you're more likely to

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Speaker 1: do it over the phone. Uh. And of course this

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Speaker 1: says a searing instant message or an email. I think

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Speaker 1: these days you would call that a text. An email

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Speaker 1: is the lowest percent wise and compassion wise for four

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Speaker 1: of people. That's the worst email. What was as pretty bad?

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Speaker 1: Email is as bad as it gets? Is it? Sex

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Speaker 1: in the city? Where it was a sticky note? I

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Speaker 1: don't remember, feel like I didn't see the movie Sticky Note? Break?

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Speaker 1: I think? So, um, should we take a break? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's take a break? Man. This is going really really

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Speaker 1: well so far? Okay, alright, Chuck, So we've talked about

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Speaker 1: when people break up, how they break up, why did

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Speaker 1: they break up? Well, actually, there's one more, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: think pretty important thing about the how, which is men

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Speaker 1: and women. Women tend to present And this sort of

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Speaker 1: makes sense too if you want to be stereotypically, you know,

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Speaker 1: stereotypical about it. Women to to present a list of grievances,

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Speaker 1: here's all the things wrong with you both pretty much,

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Speaker 1: whereas men, uh, it's a little more uh supposedly a

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Speaker 1: little more nebulous. Where the magic go. Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: That's apparently. The differences as far as like rationale for

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Speaker 1: breaking up and these are so macro level and broad

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Speaker 1: and how we talk about it. It's a little embarrassing

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Speaker 1: to even do. But to talk about this stuff, I

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Speaker 1: know I would do this. Some women do this, right, No,

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Speaker 1: it's absolutely true. Um, that's but I feel like when

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Speaker 1: you talk about this, people can find themselves in the

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Speaker 1: contours of thinks of all if you put all this

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Speaker 1: stuff together, if you just took one study and said

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Speaker 1: that this is definitive, people should punch you in the kidney. Agreed,

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Speaker 1: but not really. Don't punch anybody. You know, everyone. Over

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Speaker 1: the last almost eleven years of stuff, you should know,

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Speaker 1: I've said a lot of things that make it sound

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Speaker 1: like I'm inciting people to violence, friendly violence. So I

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Speaker 1: was joking every single time. Why someone said something, I

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Speaker 1: just I just want to make sure that everyone knows

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Speaker 1: that I was never ever actually serious and saying hit

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Speaker 1: somebody in the head with attack camera or someone in

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Speaker 1: the Actually, I'm kidding all the time, except for when

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Speaker 1: you recommend that you pants somebody, And I was kidding

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Speaker 1: even then. To have a classroom or that's psychological abuse.

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Speaker 1: It's physical, but it's more psychological than anything. You've ever

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Speaker 1: been pants in front of people? Yes? Really, yes, And

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Speaker 1: I can tell you it's psychological. I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: ever been pants. Boy, I can't imagine anything more horrifying

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Speaker 1: than being pants. What's underwear? On what? I can confirm

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Speaker 1: that because I can't remember being pants. I just remember

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Speaker 1: that I have been pants. So I think I just

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Speaker 1: immediately blocked out everything. Yeah, no story, no story there.

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Speaker 1: Um okay. Uh So if you get broke en up

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Speaker 1: with um, you will feel And we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: the science of a lot of this because it's very

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Speaker 1: similar to overcoming addictions sometimes but um, of course depression

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Speaker 1: and anxiety, uh sometimes suicidal thoughts, sometimes homicide. Oh sure,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's an outcome and the worst case outcome

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Speaker 1: that and suicide of breakups. But they are directly related

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Speaker 1: to breakups. That's how bad breakups can be. Yeah. Uh

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Speaker 1: And apparently you know when people do right in about

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Speaker 1: getting dumped and stuff, always say, you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: most trite thing in the world, but like time is

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Speaker 1: the only thing that really helps, Like ice cream and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that is good, but like it really does

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Speaker 1: decrease over time. However, in studies, um, eight weeks after

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Speaker 1: being dumped in this study, people still had signs of

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Speaker 1: clinical depression, and twelve percent appeared moderately or severely depressed.

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Speaker 1: So depends on the relationship along you're in it, how

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Speaker 1: much it meant to you, what kind of person you are.

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Speaker 1: But it can stick around for for a bit, it

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Speaker 1: can so. Um. The thing is, though, there are things

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Speaker 1: you can do to help accelerate the healing process, and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about those at the end. How about that.

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Speaker 1: We'll make y'all wait, all right, So, um, where are

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Speaker 1: we at, chucker? We at the the well the attachment styles.

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Speaker 1: I think it is interesting because um, we did talk

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Speaker 1: about like gay straight cis gendered. Uh, you know, on

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Speaker 1: the gender spectrum, maybe none of that matters. Maybe what

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Speaker 1: matters is what they call your attachment style. That's that's

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Speaker 1: what this says pretty plainly, that that's what it comes

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Speaker 1: down to, how you attach yourselves to other people. You

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Speaker 1: can be a needy, clingy dude, You can be um

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Speaker 1: a avoidant woman, or you can be either one of

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Speaker 1: those things anywhere on the gender spectrum. That's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Like the the idea that women are clinging men are

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Speaker 1: distant is is fabled. Yeah, it's at least ham fisted. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so. It's it's sort of that thing in

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Speaker 1: social science that bothers me, which is like you're either

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Speaker 1: this or this right, like one thing or the other,

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Speaker 1: and really all you are as a white college student,

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Speaker 1: that's what they really mean. Yeah, we had a little

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Speaker 1: time on their hands, right, you needed extra credit. But

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Speaker 1: there are two supposedly again two things um attachment styles,

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment and avoidant. Congre points out like that's two

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Speaker 1: ends of a spectrum, and you can fall somewhere on there.

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Speaker 1: There's actually a it's pretty straightforward. It's um uh the

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Speaker 1: oh oh I s I believe or O s I.

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Speaker 1: It's a scale where you pick how your relationship is

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Speaker 1: best described by a series of ven diagrams, and one

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Speaker 1: circles you. One circle is your significant other, and they're

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Speaker 1: just increasingly together, from just barely touching too almost completely

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Speaker 1: merged into one single circle, and you just circle the

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Speaker 1: one that best describes your your sense of what your

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Speaker 1: relationships like, and that supposedly gets your your spectrum replacement

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Speaker 1: on the spectrum of attachment across. So interesting, So it's

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Speaker 1: real subjective and self reported, so that is to say,

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Speaker 1: not scientific, right, Unfortunately, um, Supposedly two thirds of women

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Speaker 1: initiate divorces. Uh, and this article says that might give

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Speaker 1: them a statistical edge over getting over a relationship because

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Speaker 1: they initiated the breakup, so they've been in the process already.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I think she meant. I think so,

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Speaker 1: I'm just not so sure that just because a woman

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Speaker 1: initiates a divorce, it may have been after years of

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Speaker 1: systematic abuse, you know, which may not mean like she's

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Speaker 1: so ready to get over this uh quicker than he

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Speaker 1: might be, right, you know, Yeah, No, I mean you

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Speaker 1: can't just say, like if X, then I with this stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's relationships sir as messy as as humans get. It's

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Speaker 1: a relationship. Yeah, that's all you need to say. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the brain a little bit, because this

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Speaker 1: is where it does get a little more interesting, I think,

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Speaker 1: slightly god slightly more scientific. Uh. There was a study

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven by neurologists at the Einstein College

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Speaker 1: of Medicine which sounded totally fake, but it's not. I

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Speaker 1: have sounds made up for written down. It's in the bronx. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's also they were also anthropologists from Rutgers and Sunny

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Speaker 1: to legitimize things. Oh, in this study its Rutgers is

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Speaker 1: legitimizing things. We're in trouble. Is that? Is that? Really?

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Speaker 1: I thought Rutgers was all right? Or am I confusing

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Speaker 1: it with toughs Ah, you're probably thinking Princeton, Okay, both

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey schools. I thought Rutgers was the public

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Speaker 1: ivy Okay, sorry, Rutgers I tried. Then they're gonna be

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Speaker 1: so mad at me. I've hung out at Rutgers. I've

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Speaker 1: been there people, so you know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: And exactly what is it like the Detroit of New

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Speaker 1: Jersey colleges or something that's not untrue? Okay? All right,

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Speaker 1: he don't disagree. Boy, we're gonna get killed. That's okay.

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Speaker 1: So this study from Einstein College of Medicine found that

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Speaker 1: just looking at a photograph of an ex partner caused um,

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Speaker 1: the second somo somato sensory cortex and the dorsal dorsal

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Speaker 1: posterior insula. Jeez uh. And these areas process physical discomfort.

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Speaker 1: They start lighting up. The same thing as happens is

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Speaker 1: when you get physically injured, basically like you are in actual,

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Speaker 1: legitimate pain as far as your brain is concerned, in

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Speaker 1: the midst of a breakup, at least when you're stuck

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Speaker 1: in an m r I machine and showing a picture

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Speaker 1: of your recent acts, which is a big deal now

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Speaker 1: with social media, because every modern article I read about

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Speaker 1: breakups and getting over them talked about what a deletrious

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Speaker 1: effect social media will have on your recovery process. Are

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Speaker 1: you taunting me? Because the stuffs everywhere? Now. It used

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Speaker 1: to be easy. You could just throw everything in a

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Speaker 1: shoe box and set it on set it on fire,

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Speaker 1: and send it down a river and a little boat

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Speaker 1: made of rage. Um, But you can't do that anymore

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Speaker 1: because they're everywhere. No, but that's that's tip number one

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Speaker 1: from psychologist Guy Winch, author of How to Fix a

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Speaker 1: Broken Heart. Stay the h off of social media. Do

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Speaker 1: not stalk your X on social do not check in,

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Speaker 1: like just separate. Imagine that would be really hard because

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Speaker 1: in the old days, it was just left to your

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Speaker 1: imagination to think about how much fun they were having

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Speaker 1: with you know, now you can see pictures of the

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Speaker 1: nine new boyfriends that she has. Hum but yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: right now, or you know, maybe it helps people. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's imperative that you not do

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Speaker 1: that to help to help. Like, it's not like watching

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Speaker 1: them on social media will prevent you from ever getting

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Speaker 1: over it. I think no matter what you do, you're

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Speaker 1: going to eventually get past this. But all you're doing

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Speaker 1: is prolonging the process, and that like unnecessarily uh. And

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Speaker 1: then also when you were on the f m RI

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Speaker 1: machine and they did brain scans from people who have

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Speaker 1: been broken up with recently, they found that very much

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Speaker 1: similar to people overcoming like an addiction to cocaine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and that that same circuitry is of overcoming addiction is

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Speaker 1: just lighting up. It's that potent. Yeah, so so far

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Speaker 1: with this m r I study from Albert Einstein came

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Speaker 1: up with is that you were in physical pain from

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Speaker 1: the breakup, and you're the same centers that are activated

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Speaker 1: by addiction cravings with draws are activated by the breakup

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Speaker 1: as well. That's astounding. Yeah, And this weird mental cycle

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Speaker 1: happens basically when you do look at like a photograph

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Speaker 1: of a uh what they say, a former lover right

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Speaker 1: over like the burger king laying rug. But you will,

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Speaker 1: you'll see the photo and the weird thing is you'll

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Speaker 1: immediately get a reward. You will get a dopamine hit,

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Speaker 1: like a pleasurable feeling by seeing this person. And then

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Speaker 1: you realize, oh wait, well then you get sad all

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Speaker 1: right immediately afterwards? Uh and then that sagnus sagness. Where

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Speaker 1: did that come from? It is a little saggy feeling

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Speaker 1: that triggers the brains ventral tech mental area and the

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Speaker 1: nucleus uh acumen bins acumen bins. I think so, I

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Speaker 1: know we've run into that before. We just talk about

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Speaker 1: the brain a lot more human beins. I think we

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Speaker 1: figured out the brain though, right, so we stopped. We

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Speaker 1: were like do um, But the these two things working

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Speaker 1: together regardless of how I mispronounced them. They trigger the

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Speaker 1: urge to see that person, so you get sad, and

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Speaker 1: then your brain lights up in two areas and then

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Speaker 1: you go, hey, I remember that dopamine hit you get

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Speaker 1: from looking this picture. Why don't you just give him

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Speaker 1: a call and see what's going on? Right? You want

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00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: the real stuff? Go go? They also those two areas

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Speaker 1: apparently also UM are analytical as well, so they're responsible

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Speaker 1: for rehashing the the relationship, but apparently they're not very

401
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Speaker 1: realistic because most people, when rehashing the relationship, highlight the

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Speaker 1: good parts and forget about all the bad parts. I

403
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Speaker 1: kind of have tended to do that, I think everybody does.

404
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Speaker 1: I don't understand why. I don't know. I don't agree

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Speaker 1: with that, like Emily, and when we of course, I've

406
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Speaker 1: been married so long the subject never comes up anymore.

407
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Speaker 1: But I was always like, oh, with the old girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: what was so bad there? And then if I really

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Speaker 1: thought about it, I would remember where She's always like,

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Speaker 1: oh that was awful? Yeah gotcha? Well she's smart. Yeah

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Speaker 1: maybe so I'm dumb dumb so but but okay, so

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Speaker 1: even and you're not dumb dumb, even if UM like

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Speaker 1: you represent a third of people or a half of

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Speaker 1: people who do real when rehashing, only think about the

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Speaker 1: good stuff and forget about all the negative stuff, like

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Speaker 1: what is that? Why does that even happen? It's bizarre

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Speaker 1: if you think about the personality thing, like if I

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Speaker 1: tend to be optimistic maybe or yeah, yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty good explanation to tell you the truth.

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Speaker 1: What I was going to say is if you look

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Speaker 1: at relationships or romantic love as um a a evolutionary

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Speaker 1: drive to pair and mate successfully over and over again

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Speaker 1: and to stay together, that would bring you back to

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Speaker 1: this person that you've already connected with, rather than making

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00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: you go look for another mate. That makes sense, So

426
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: may be it's kind of like a backstopp or fail

427
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: safe for breakups evolutionarily speaking, right, like I was so

428
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: close to having nine babies, Like I really want to

429
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: start all over again, right, Which is funny because that

430
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: means that Emily is more evolved than you in that sense. Yeah,

431
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: in every sense. But the end of that mental cycle,

432
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: basically though, is those areas light up that say go

433
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: back and see that person. Then you are immediately unsatisfied

434
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: and about the fact that that's not happening. That's when

435
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: you're a pre frontal cortex trips into gear and that's

436
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: when you get angry. And it's just that mental cycle

437
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: that starts seeing that photo on a social media platform

438
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: and ending up upset in the end. But UM, the

439
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: same study led by Helen Fisher, found that UM, after

440
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: over time, the same process is greatly degraded. I think

441
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: they did a follow up in well months, Congress says, uh,

442
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: I found that the whole process and in all of

443
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: the neurochemicals and the brain regions are much less active,

444
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: which again just time, give it time, right. But if

445
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: you don't give it time and you do the thing

446
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: where you do get back together, UH, that that can

447
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: be great. You know it's UM. Sometimes you can work

448
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: it out and people can't change UM. But there's a

449
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: big caveat there. Well, right, go ahead, no no, no,

450
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: no you you say yours okay, because I think I'm

451
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: talking about something else. So UM. What I saw was

452
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: that if you get back together, rather than saying like

453
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: this is a fresh start, we're gonna try this over again, UM,

454
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: we're gonna really make a go of it. If you

455
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: do that, all you're going to do is just walk

456
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: right back into the same pitfalls and pratfalls because the

457
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: separation probably did nothing or virtually nothing to your individual personalities,

458
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: which are the source of all of your conflicts. So

459
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: it's not like you just magically worked your conflicts out

460
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: and you're getting back together there and everything's fine. That's

461
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: just a charade. But if you get back together and

462
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: say I decided I love you the way you are

463
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be away from you, and

464
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: I just accept you for you, and I accept our

465
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: relationship with all of its problems, you're probably going to

466
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: have a successful reunion. If you go into it like

467
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: all of our problems are solved because we broke up.

468
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: You're just going to do the same thing again down

469
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: the line. And that's apparently a fairly frequent thing. That

470
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: something like six or some crazy percentage of UM younger

471
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: the younger generation generation. Why I guess um the process

472
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: of breaking up the majority of them that that breakup

473
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: involves getting back together multiple times, not just once. Yeah,

474
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: so they're you're getting back together and just going through

475
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: the same pattern. I think there's a field of thought

476
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: and psychology called scripts. These are scripts that we're playing

477
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: out one another scripts, and if you don't alter the script,

478
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna go through the same script over and over again. Uh,

479
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: You're you're working out the same things from your past

480
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: or from your childhood against one another, and you're not

481
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: doing it in the right way. So all you're doing

482
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: is creating conflict. And that doesn't just magically go away

483
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: because you spend a couple of months apart. You have

484
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: to just say I love you for who you are

485
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: and we're going to just just keep going. Yeah, I

486
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 1: think what I was gonna say was, Um, don't they

487
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: think though? That that also depends on just what kind

488
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: of person you are in terms of thinking. Either people

489
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: can really make substantial change in their lives or they can't.

490
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: That's how how you deal with a breakup, which we'll

491
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: talk about in a minute. That sounds like a good

492
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: place for a break I think so too, all right,

493
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: before we get to that, what we were just talking

494
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: about before the split. Um, this is one piece of

495
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: data UM from the same sex couple community. Supposedly from studies,

496
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: they do think that same sex couples are better at

497
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: staying friends. Yeah, I saw that after a breakup, which

498
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: particularly UM lesbian couples, yeah, and then gay men and

499
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: then straight couples are like, forget about it. Yeah, it's

500
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: an interesting thing. Can you really be friends after And

501
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: it all depends on how intense and how long and

502
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: and how kind of a person you are, But um, yeah,

503
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: it's interesting when I meet people that legitimately are friends

504
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: with people that they seriously dated years later. It's pretty rare,

505
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: I think. Actually, I think it's too. I think it

506
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: seems less rare because you see it on TV shows

507
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, um, And it's also almost aspirational, like, oh,

508
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: look at how like how laid back and like with

509
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: these people are that they can be friends after this,

510
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think it's pretty rare. Actually, I

511
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: think it's an idealized form because people like to you

512
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: like to think that like you're on good terms with

513
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: everybody in your life. I think that's usually the person

514
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: breaking up though. There it's like I'd like to still

515
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: be friends, whereas the person getting broken up with it

516
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: like or you could get it by car, right, yeah,

517
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: and that would solve the problem. Um. And then sticking

518
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: with the whole same sex straight thing, are we saying straight? Still?

519
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that doesn't feel right, does it. It doesn't,

520
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: So let's just say same sex and hetero. Yeah, hetero,

521
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: there's a there's a clinical name for it. Boy. Um

522
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: so uh. The time and marriage seemed to be the

523
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: two greatest indicators, at least as far as this one

524
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: study I saw went um for the likelihood of staying

525
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: together over long periods of time. Like all relationships, same

526
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: sex and hetero um man woman, all of them are

527
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: in at the greatest risk of breakup within the first

528
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: year or two, and then it starts to drop precipitously.

529
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: But I think married hetero couples have a fairly low

530
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: rate of a low chance of breaking up over time

531
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: is pretty much flat the whole time, um say. And

532
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: then with same sex couples, the same thing happens. That

533
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: the chance to break up is pretty high at the beginning,

534
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: and then it starts to come down, and then it's

535
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: basically tracks with hetero couples for marriage. So marriage is

536
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of the factor. Time is a second factor, but

537
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: then time stops being a factor after like thirty or

538
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: forty years. For unmarried couples both hetero and same sex,

539
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: they started to break up after year like thirty or forty,

540
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: Like the chance of a breakup increases. Yeah, but once

541
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: you get married, once you get a ring on it,

542
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,239
Speaker 1: um over time, over like you know, decades is what

543
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Your chance is almost nil of of

544
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: breaking up all right, like less than I think a percent.

545
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: But that doesn't sound right because that the like half

546
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: of all marriages into divorce. Yeah, this thing was way off,

547
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: but maybe that's when taking into account maybe that's frontloaded

548
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: by all the divorce that happened the first five years

549
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, OK, that would make a

550
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: little bit more sense. They do find that your chances

551
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: of getting over a breakup or adjusting to that new

552
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: post breakup life, um, really centers around regaining your sense

553
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: of self. Um that when you couple up with someone. Uh.

554
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: It's not saying you can't have a sense of self anymore,

555
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: because it's very healthy too. But there's an inevitable um

556
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: absorption and morphing that happens, and a little bit of

557
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: your sense of self goes away when you couple. Yeah,

558
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: all the same friends, the same phone number, yeah, and

559
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: the same madre yes. Yeah boy? What about couples that

560
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: share the email address? Yeah? You mean I have one

561
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: really never had one, But you have your own too, Well, yeah,

562
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: we just have our own, but we have our shared

563
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: one too. I think I'm talking about the people that

564
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: just have the shared address. I've always found that interesting. Yeah,

565
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: I'm judging. I don't know anybody who just has a

566
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: shared address. I don't get why people would have the

567
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: same one. I guess I just always Emily says a

568
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: mind spring address. Wow, is it Emily at MindSpring dot com? No?

569
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: And that is the truth, because I'm not saying that

570
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: just to keep people from emailing her. But she's she

571
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: had it for so long and I make fun of

572
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: her all the time because she still pays like twenty

573
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: dollars a year for this what And she was like,

574
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: I've had it for so long that I just can't

575
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: give it up. Well, that's why people stay on Facebook. Yeah, Like,

576
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: I'm not changing my email address. There's like many memories there.

577
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: It's like even that just contech list and every email. Like,

578
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think it's funny. I was like,

579
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: where's that money going? Who owns mind Spring? The air

580
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 1: of the mind spring fortune? He can count on twenty

581
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: bucks a month back of cigarettes every months because oh man. UM.

582
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: And then for recovery, uh, the the whole stress related

583
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: growth thing that can happen with recovery, which is UM.

584
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: And I think women tend to be more apt to

585
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: do this than man. But like, all right, you know what,

586
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm free now, I'm gonna do all those things that

587
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: I lost while I was with him. It didn't have

588
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: time for my friends anymore. I lost connections with them.

589
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: I didn't do I didn't fly model airplanes or RC

590
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: airplanes any I'm gonna drop some weight. I'm gonna start

591
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: eating healthier. The post breakup weight loss is a huge,

592
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 1: huge thing. It is, and partially from stress, but partially

593
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: just because like I'm gonna make myself the best I

594
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: can be and I'll show her or him. I think

595
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: it's also like, um, just as simple as like more

596
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: free time, you know too, and something to do that is,

597
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, exercises also stress relieving. UM, you might not

598
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: be eating as much because your stomach is tied up

599
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: into stress. Not so there are a bunch of reasons

600
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: for it. But here is that here's where that um,

601
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: that part you're talking about earlier I said we would

602
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: get too kind of kicks in is how much of

603
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: the self you identify with UM does relate to how

604
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: well you handle a break up, how much of your

605
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: how much of the U is the we in the relationship?

606
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: And what they found is that that's a huge part

607
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: of it, but more significant is the amount of growth

608
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: that happens while you're in a relationship. Like you can

609
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: share a tremendous amount of the same self with your

610
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: significant other and grow as a person as a result.

611
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: And if you do that, UM, you're actually going to

612
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: have a harder breakup because that we that that uper

613
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: attachment UM that led to that personal growth is related

614
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: to that other person who's now gone. Whereas if you

615
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: were even if you were totally in messed with another person,

616
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: but you didn't grow much personally, if you experience a

617
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: burst of growth after the breakup, you're going to have

618
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: the easiest breakup of all. Even though you were super

619
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: in messed with the person, you weren't growing. But then

620
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: you grow afterward. Now that period of non growth is

621
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: related to that person who's gone, And you can be like,

622
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: so long zero, I'm gonna make myself a hero. Yeah,

623
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: do you see sure? Did they come across? Yeah? Because

624
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm not the best at explaining things, which is

625
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: pretty funny if you think about it, there really is UM.

626
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: In two thousand, they did a study at Northwestern University

627
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: where they did find out though that UM. They asked people,

628
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: I believe, how bad do you think this breakup is

629
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: going to be? If you if you you know, you're

630
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: in a relationship, what if you broke up? And then

631
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: they found out that they weren't as bad off as

632
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: they thought they would be, which is encouraging, it is,

633
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: but also think about this, chuck, These vultures who are

634
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: running the study where like, you're in a relationship, just

635
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: just we're going to study just in case you guys

636
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: break up, And so they would get that info, that

637
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: self reporting info about how bad the breakup would be,

638
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: and then they swooped in upon the breakup there like

639
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: how bad is it? Tell us? And the person was like, well,

640
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: this is as bad as it is. And it was

641
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: almost across the board, not not anywhere near as bad

642
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,439
Speaker 1: as the people thought it would be when they were

643
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: in the relationship, which is pretty surprising. And what was

644
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: even more surprising is the more in love you are,

645
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,479
Speaker 1: the easier it's going to be relative to how bad

646
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,959
Speaker 1: do you think it will be during the relations, Which

647
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: makes sense if you stop and think about it. Yeah.

648
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: I thought the other interesting thing too when we were

649
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: talking to out, um getting over a breakup in your

650
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: sense of self that's closely tied to how you feel

651
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: about rejection and um, there are a couple of I

652
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: mean more than a couple of ways. But if your

653
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: reflection of your how you think about rejection is tied

654
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: heavily into how you feel about yourself, So there's some

655
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: people that might be rejected and it might devastate them

656
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: because they start to analyze themselves and what did I

657
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: do wrong? And what's wrong with me? There's a whole

658
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: other camp out there, And I think this goes into

659
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: personality and ego and all that stuff. But you call

660
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: these people healthy or sociopaths. Oh you think so? Maybe

661
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: I just we just put both of our cards on

662
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 1: this table. Then. But the people that are like, yeah,

663
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: I got broken up with and I but and I

664
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: got rejected. But you know, as happens that happens in life.

665
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: People get rejected. It's not because of me, I thought

666
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: everyone you know, so you find it, you find this

667
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: quote sociopathic. I learned that two people can both be

668
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: quality individuals, but that doesn't mean they belong together. That's

669
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: sociopathic to you. That's that was Oh wait it says

670
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: you said that it was dead Bundy Patrick Bateman. No, no no, no,

671
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: I don't think it necessarily means you're a sociopath. But

672
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: I think someone with that is a true sociopath would

673
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: probably be way more apt to be like, oh yeah,

674
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: well it was them, not me. Yeah, it's like it's fine, breakup.

675
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: There's a sub subgroup to that sociopath as you call

676
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: it camp, and they are like, well, breakups happen. Um,

677
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: I heard what the other person said, and there's some

678
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: things that I feel like I need to work on,

679
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: Like sin, I was a terrible communicator, so I'm gonna

680
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: work on becoming a better communicator as a result. It's

681
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: called stress related growth is what that's called. Where you're

682
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: growing out of this horrific experience. Um, and that's healthy,

683
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: that's super healthy. But they the key is what's unhealthy

684
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: is to say this was all because of some fatal

685
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: flaw that I have, that's part of my personality that

686
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: I'll never be able to get rid of. And so

687
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: all I'm going to do is poison every relationship from

688
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: here on out, and I'm just gonna build walls and

689
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: keep everybody at a distance. And that's just some people

690
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: do as a result of a breakup, and you can't

691
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: do that. Even if your brain starts to go that way,

692
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: this research says, stop it. Don't you have to disassociate

693
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: yourself become the sociopath. I guess if need be to say,

694
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: this is not because of an inherent flaw in me

695
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: that's uncorrectable. Even if the person was right, even if

696
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: they're like, you're a terrible communicator and you have serious

697
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: mommy issues, that doesn't mean that you will always be

698
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: a terrible communicator with serious mommy issues. You could work

699
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: on those post breakup and become a much better s

700
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: O to the next person or whatever. The key is

701
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: not not being a fatalist, like there's nothing you can

702
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: do to change. And then also you should evaluate whether

703
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: the person was saying that in anger, how much faith

704
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: you put in their opinion of you. There's a lot

705
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: of factors that you need to take into account before

706
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: you take on that kind of thing that just puts

707
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: you in the bottom of a well where you could

708
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: conceivably hang out for the rest of your life if

709
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: you're not careful without copious amounts of therapy, agreed, or

710
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,959
Speaker 1: turning the drugs and alcohol, which is a big, yeah,

711
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: big thing that a lot of people do. Jim cuts

712
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: both ways. Uh, should we talk about some of these

713
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: tips from this guy psychologist Guy Winch. Remember number one is, um,

714
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: don't check up on them on social media. Here's why.

715
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: He says that this will reinforce your excess presence in

716
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: your mind and will make it harder for you to

717
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: stop fantasizing about your broken relationship. You're basically just like

718
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: literally keeping them right there in front of your face

719
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: through social media. Yeah, which is why it's a bad

720
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: idea to avoid creating mysteries about why the breakup happened.

721
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: And again, this is along those same lines of just

722
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: keeping your ex like forefront in your mind, which is hard.

723
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna take a little while. It's makes

724
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: day to pop up and just be like, well, they're

725
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: out of my mind. That's sociopathic. Yeah, even if you're

726
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: the breaker upper, Um, you know, it doesn't mean that

727
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: you don't have a process to go through as well. Sure,

728
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: you know, but That's why he says, avoid creating mysteries

729
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: like it's it's probably going to happen, but like be

730
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: mindful when it's going on and be like enough, I'm

731
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: gonna go work out, yeah, or go drink some gin

732
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: or both. Uh. Number three, Make a list of all

733
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: the comper this is a good one. Make a list

734
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: of all the compromises that you had to make that

735
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: you don't want to make again, and start to think about, like, yeah,

736
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: you know, when I was with this person, I felt

737
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: like I could never really have my real sense of

738
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: humor out in public because they thought it was loud.

739
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: The counters that that um that rehashing, that just focuses

740
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: on the positive. It cuts the legs out from under

741
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: that cutting legs. What about number four? Do the things

742
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: that used to bring you enjoyment is kind of what

743
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier, even if they don't seem

744
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: interesting now. That whole thing where like, jeez, I used

745
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: to really love pottery and throwing clay, and I just

746
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: I quit doing it once I started dating Josh. Yeah

747
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: in my house uh, And Josh hated it when Chuck

748
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: went to the Potter's Wheel because it reminded him of

749
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: Ghost and Josh hated that movie, so he wouldn't allow

750
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: me to do it. But you know what, I'm gonna

751
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: reclaim that pottery wheel, which is ironic because I was

752
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: always walking around our house just like Patrick Swayzey in

753
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: that scene. But I still hated that movie. Oh that

754
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: was more like the Chris Farley chipping Dale Patrick Swazy version.

755
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: Um number five, remove reminders, Um, this is the box

756
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: that you will burn, which is now just a your

757
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: laptop in the fireplace, right in your smartphone, and then

758
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: like reconnect with your friends, like, yeah, you left him

759
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: in the dusty years ago, but they're still alive and

760
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: they probably wouldn't mind hearing from you. Yeah. The problem

761
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: here is is if you truly do have a mix

762
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: of friends that you both love, and it's not like

763
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: I didn't leave behind all my old friends or the

764
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: worst case scenarios like all of my friends are from you.

765
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: Now what do I do? Go down to the Y

766
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: m c A and make some new friends? I guess.

767
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: So I found this one last study I thought was interesting,

768
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: The best way to get over a breakup according to science.

769
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: This is actually published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology.

770
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: UH and they tested a bunch of strategies. We're getting

771
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 1: over a breakup, twenty four heartbroken people. They just thirty

772
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: seven that had in and at least a two and

773
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: a half year relationship, so pretty significant. Some were dumpy,

774
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: some were dumpers. And they said there were three strategies.

775
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: One is too negatively re appraise your ex. I just

776
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: think about all the bad things. Um. The other one

777
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: was called love reappraisal, which is, uh, believe in read

778
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: statements like it's okay to love someone I'm no longer with,

779
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: It's all right. And then the third was distraction literally

780
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: the ice cream and movies drake, the black mirror trick.

781
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: And then there was the fourth prompt, which was the control,

782
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: which was don't think about anything. Of course means you're

783
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: thinking of the state of March about I don't think

784
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: about anything really, just undermine the science of that. Clear

785
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: your brain. So those were the four prompts. Then they

786
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: showed everyone They hooked everyone up to an E e

787
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: G machine, showed them photos of their exes, and they

788
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: measured the intensity of emotion in response to that photo,

789
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: and then had them use these different prompts to see

790
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: like which one works best when they looked in the

791
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: people who were not thinking about anything, they were bleeding

792
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: out of their eyes, sucking. They were um And according

793
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: to the readings, all three, all three of the strategies

794
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: significantly decrease their emotional response through the photos relative to

795
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: the control. Um. If you looked at your ex in

796
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: a negative light that first one, like they was such

797
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: a jerk, you had a decrease in feelings of love.

798
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: But you left in a worse mood like that drudged

799
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: up bad feelings like you you wasted your time or

800
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: something that maybe or just like just really took me

801
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: off thinking about all that stuff. Right, you know? So

802
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: now did dump study some clay? That's right? Uh, distraction

803
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: made feel made you feel better overall, Um, but didn't

804
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,479
Speaker 1: that have much of an effect on how you really

805
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: felt about them? You just didn't leave in a necessarily

806
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: a bad mood. You just got ice cream and watched

807
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 1: funny movie good enough, which is fine. But they said

808
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: that that doesn't do anything long term to help you recover,

809
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,479
Speaker 1: just like a temporary whatever does it prolong it? Though?

810
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: Do you think? I mean, you know, as much as

811
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: the people conducted it said, it's a form of avoidance

812
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: that is shown to reduce the recovery. Okay, so it

813
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: would prolong it. Then I guess everybody stop eating ice

814
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: cream and watching Black Mirror. Uh. And then Love Appraisal

815
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: showed no effect on your mood or how you feel

816
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: about them, but it did dull the emotional response a

817
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,959
Speaker 1: little bit. So there's really nothing to do. Doesn't sound

818
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: like it. I saw a couple more tips. One is,

819
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: you can write a letter that, under no circumstances will

820
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: you ever send. Yeah, that's a good trick relationships. It's

821
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: like anything bothering her. It also really works well for

822
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: grieving too. Um, you just write a letter and you

823
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: say whatever you want because you know for a fact

824
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: that the other person will never read it. Dear, you

825
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: can say whatever you want, and it's just like a

826
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 1: cathartic process that can help hasten things. And then also,

827
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: why do sad songs feel so good when you're going

828
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 1: through a breakup? Why do people seek out sad songs?

829
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: And the best explanation I saw, the best theory is

830
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: that a song is a little capsule of emotion, and

831
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: when you're seeking out a sad song, you're confronting the

832
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: very emotions that you're probably stifling right then, and confronting

833
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: it in such a raw form forces you to express

834
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: those emotions i e. Cry and that helps you process

835
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: them faster because you're you're not pushing them off any longer.

836
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 1: You're you're you're you're expressing them, you're sorting through them.

837
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: So that's what sad songs make you do. That's why

838
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: people seek out sad songs when they're down, and it

839
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: actually helps hasten recovery. Lady and Red, I don't think

840
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: that's a sad standing with me. That's the saddest song.

841
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: You're like, it takes me away? That uh sailing by

842
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: Christopher Cross A lady in Red and then um Dan

843
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: Vogelberg's saying, same old anxide three set a song. Jerry

844
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 1: knows that song. Those were two Christopher Cross songs. He's

845
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: got two of the three sets. Lady and Red's not

846
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: Christopher Cross. I think it is five dollars Jerry. We're

847
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: all nodding now, five dollars is on the table. All right,

848
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: I'll look it up. Well, you guys will find out

849
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: next episode whether I was right or not. I remember

850
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: the guy's name. It's Christopher Cross. Oh, Jerry's rare is

851
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 1: doing one of her rare speaking parts. She says, Chris

852
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: Christoph Waltz, that's the actor. You know what's funny is

853
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: I miss type something and it changed my search to

854
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: Lady in Red Wings like red Wing boot must be

855
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: a fetish site, I guess. So yeah, Well, while Chuck's

856
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: doing that, if you want to know more about breakups,

857
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: go read about them, because that's way better than going

858
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: through them. Uh. And since we said that, it's time

859
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: for listener mail. Well no, no, First of all, that

860
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: is Christin burg Um. Who is Krista Berg. It's a

861
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: it's amazing burg Oh, I got you, not Krista burgh

862
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I think he was a one hit wonder.

863
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: Probably he's British Okay art rock performer. Lady in bed

864
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: Night says, wow, So Christopher Cross did not have that song? No,

865
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: he's great to look so no, no, no, no listener mail.

866
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: Let's get the How the Money guys in here. So

867
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 1: here we are everybody, as promised, we have a very

868
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: special non listener mail listener mail segment. Instead, we're gonna

869
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: hang out with Joel and Matt, the dudes from How

870
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 1: to Money. So welcome guys. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah,

871
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for being here. Listen

872
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: to those voices, right, podcasting voices for We've been working

873
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: on him. It takes a while, you know, to develop

874
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: a voice this golden, but it takes time, but you

875
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 1: get there, you know, yes, you know, I've just learned

876
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: the English language. So so how this all happened was

877
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: my friend from high school is a mutual friend of yours,

878
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: Matt keg stand Todd. He got in touch to via

879
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: social media and said, hey, I got these friends. It

880
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: was sort of that thing that everyone dreads, which is

881
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: like they have a podcast, would you have coffee with them?

882
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: And then I listened to the show and it was great,

883
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, you guys are sort of doing

884
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: and stuff you should know. He approach to finance and

885
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: would you join our network? And it was kind of

886
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: that simple. Yeah. The thing is is it wasn't a mistake, right,

887
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: Like we've I've been a fan of s Y s

888
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 1: K for for years and the approach of just talking

889
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: about things that you're interested or that you find, you know,

890
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: a curiosity, and it was it was a huge draw

891
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: to finding a way to talk about money in a

892
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: way that was helpful, uh to folks out there needing

893
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: help with their finances. Yeah. That's the key, isn't it,

894
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: Just to like be actually interested in what you're talking about. Yeah, So, like,

895
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 1: what are some of the topics you guys cover typically? Yeah,

896
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: so we cover all sorts of topics really more than anything,

897
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: stuff that interests Matt and I, and so we cover Uh.

898
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: We just realized that every time we got together, when

899
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: we end up talking about money related issues, that's just

900
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 1: kind of what we care about. And so we wanted

901
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: to help people figure out how to handle their money

902
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: better because it's like a huge issue, right, And so

903
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 1: we talked about tax refunds, We talked about student loan debt.

904
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: We talk about how investing is like so much simpler

905
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: than you think it is. There's this concertative effort to

906
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: make it seem like it's a really hard thing, and

907
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: people they get there, they get their panties in a

908
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: lot because they don't know how to invest, and they

909
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 1: decide not to do it at all because it's so hard, right,

910
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: And so we want to just help people make it easier.

911
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: So it's like a public service. Basically, you for doing

912
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: that because there is a lot of like scary thought

913
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: and um it just fear of the unknown for sure

914
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: with finances and a lot of people have problems with money.

915
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: So to go out there and do that to to

916
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: explain it to whipping into shape for people, um is

917
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: it's it's hats off. Yeah. I mean there's just not

918
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: come station happening around personal finance, Like right, fewer folks

919
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: were talking about it that that that need to actually

920
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: be be discussing it, right, It needs to be talked

921
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: about more. And I think you know, by leading by

922
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: example to a certain extent, by talking about it and

923
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: having conversations about it like that alone kind of demystifies

924
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 1: these you know, financial topics and principles. And you know,

925
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: if we can do that and encourage conversation through the show,

926
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: through the podcast, then you know, we see that as

927
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: a as a huge win. Yeah. I think the danger

928
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: for especially like um, younger listeners and millennials, that they

929
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: just sort of shut it down because they might think

930
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: it's boring or it's scary and so I don't even

931
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: want to like go there. And you guys do it

932
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: in such an approachable way that it demystifies it and

933
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: makes it accessible and it really kind of is like

934
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: a public service in a way. Yeah, so I think

935
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 1: it's so uh for Matt and I to to do

936
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: this show right first, it just came out of what

937
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: we generally talk about, like, Hey, what do we do

938
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: when we get together. We drink a beer and we

939
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: talk about money, and so on the show we drink

940
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: a beer too, which is part of our kind of approach,

941
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 1: like let's just be normal human beings that talk about money,

942
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: that care about this stuff. And so it's been really, honestly,

943
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: it's been super cool to see the listeners respond, to

944
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: see them taking action, to hear the sorts of moves

945
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: that people have made in their financial lives already. And

946
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: the cool thing, the best part about the whole thing

947
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: is that at the end of the day, they've they've

948
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: empowered themselves, right, They they've made a change their own

949
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: lives that makes their future self so much happier and

950
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,919
Speaker 1: even honestly there their self today because as you start

951
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: to kind of take um, take the range of your

952
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: own financial life back. Uh, there's something that's so free

953
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 1: getting out from under debt. There's like no better feeling

954
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: than that, like you feel like the man doesn't own

955
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: you anymore, you know, like you're not indebted literally and

956
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: figuratively at that point. Yeah, but it's like, how do

957
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: I start, how do I even like get the ball rolling?

958
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: And that's what keeps people from like sitting on the

959
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: couch and not doing anything. And so yeah, we want

960
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: to be that motivating factor but also kind of explain

961
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: some of us that that typically are shrouded in secrecy. Well,

962
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: you said, you guys talk about beer a lot on

963
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: the podcast or it's a part of it's like a

964
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: third third host kind of another character. Right, it's the

965
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 1: Jerry of How to Money. I wish Jerry was a beer. Um,

966
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: so she'd be long gone by now, though, Um so

967
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: have what beer have you come across that is expensive

968
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: but worth the outlay in your opinion? I mean I would. So.

969
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: One of the reasons we have the beer on the

970
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: show is that it's an example of us focusing on

971
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: enjoying life now while also balancing saving for the future. Yeah.

972
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 1: That's important. Yeah, because a lot of times folks get

973
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: too caught up in u compounding interest calculators and they

974
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: look ahead and they say, man if I don't spend

975
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: another ten bucks this month like that back thousands and

976
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: thousands down the road, and what happens is folks end

977
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: up just depriving themselves of of things that they enjoy

978
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: now or something, but with money, yes, exactly, And so

979
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: pretty much any beer that we know we want to

980
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: have on the show. Certainly there's some that are better

981
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: than others, but we enjoy every single one that we

982
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: have on because it's a it's an example, it's an

983
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: illustration of us taking time, taking time for ourselves, you know,

984
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: like we don't do that enough, but but really it

985
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: is a huge part of the show, and we felt

986
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: that it was always important that we maintained that, Uh,

987
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: that we maintained that in the podcast. The fact that

988
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: you don't discriminate from beer to beer. I just I

989
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: love both of you. Hats off to you again. Well,

990
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are the mystifying the process. You're

991
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: making finance um interesting and funny, and uh I I

992
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: feel great that you guys thought of us as an

993
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: inspiration for doing that, and uh, I think you really

994
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: are doing a great service. So, like, if you're out

995
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: there in podcast land and finance scares you or bores

996
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: you like, listen to How the Money for Real, because

997
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: it can. It can be a great sidekick and a

998
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: teacher for you. Thanks. Thanks, guys, We appreciate it. And um, yeah,

999
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: we're just glad to be a part of the network

1000
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: and we love what you guys are doing. Great too, man,

1001
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: thanks man, thanks so much. It's a lot of fun

1002
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: to be part of the family for sure. Yeah. And

1003
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: so they can find you, guys, what on Apple? Podcasts,

1004
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: on iHeart radio app everywhere they get podcasts, okay, great?

1005
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: And when do you publish Mondays and Wednesdays? What's your

1006
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: social Oh, let'sten how to Money pod? Pretty much everywhere,

1007
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: I believe, yes. And the best part is our Facebook group,

1008
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: so if you want to join in there there's over

1009
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: a thousand people asking each other questions, commenting, and that's

1010
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: the community is super fun. Yeah. The fact that the

1011
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: community has sort of formed around the show. Yeah, there's

1012
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: folks helping each other out and you know, asking questions,

1013
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: answering other questions of stuff that they do know about.

1014
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: That is super cool. Like between that and the emails

1015
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: that we receive of folks, you know, explaining how they

1016
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: have created a budget for the first time ever, or

1017
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm starting to set aside money towards you know, putting

1018
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: money in my four oh one k uh, finally accepting

1019
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: the employer match, like just different things, Like it's so rewarding,

1020
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: it's huge. I wish I would have had this show

1021
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: because I was a late bloomer, uh in knowing anything

1022
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: about finances. So if I would have had the show

1023
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: on my twenties, I'd be a lot further along then

1024
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: I am today. Goes. If only weekend time travel, you know,

1025
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: exactly getting the way back, I'd be richer and slimmer.

1026
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming by you guys who appreciate it. Uh.

1027
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,959
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with me, Chuck

1028
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: or Jerry, you can shoot us an email to stuff

1029
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: podcast how stuff Works dot for more on this and

1030
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot

1031
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: com