WEBVTT - Revisionist History Presents: The Limits of Power 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:24.196 Bushkin. Hello there, Malcolm Glawell. Here. Many people have spoken 0:00:24.276 --> 0:00:27.276 up over the last few days, very eloquently about the 0:00:27.276 --> 0:00:29.596 tragic death of George Floyd at the hands of a 0:00:29.596 --> 0:00:33.516 police officer in Minneapolis. It says something about the country 0:00:33.556 --> 0:00:36.036 we live in that the most powerful things I've heard 0:00:36.036 --> 0:00:38.916 have come from mayors and preachers and rappers and talk 0:00:38.956 --> 0:00:42.756 show hosts and countless ordinary people on Twitter, while the 0:00:42.756 --> 0:00:45.836 White House turned off its lights and the President hid 0:00:45.836 --> 0:00:51.636 in an underground bunker. Sometimes words fail me. As those 0:00:51.636 --> 0:00:53.516 of you who have followed my career now, I've been 0:00:53.596 --> 0:00:56.116 writing and thinking about race and policing for a very 0:00:56.156 --> 0:00:59.116 long time. The final chapter of my second book, Blink, 0:00:59.516 --> 0:01:01.556 was about the forty one shots fired at a young 0:01:01.636 --> 0:01:05.756 African immigrant named Amadu Diallo by New York City police 0:01:05.756 --> 0:01:09.196 officers in nineteen ninety nine as he stood on his 0:01:09.236 --> 0:01:12.236 front porch and reach for his wallet to show them 0:01:12.316 --> 0:01:16.476 his ID. My latest book, Talking to Strangers, starts and 0:01:16.596 --> 0:01:19.756 ends with the tragic encounter between a young African American woman, 0:01:19.996 --> 0:01:23.436 Sandra Bland, and a highway patrolman on the streets of 0:01:23.516 --> 0:01:26.716 Prairie View, Texas. So I wanted to add my voice 0:01:26.716 --> 0:01:29.636 to the chorus and share some of that work. And 0:01:29.716 --> 0:01:32.276 what I decided on is a portion of the audiobook 0:01:32.316 --> 0:01:35.396 version of my book David and Goliath. It was published 0:01:35.476 --> 0:01:38.796 in twenty thirteen, and this chapter is about a riot 0:01:38.796 --> 0:01:42.436 that took place in Belfast, in Northern Ireland. It's about 0:01:42.476 --> 0:01:46.196 a situation from miles away and many years ago, and 0:01:46.276 --> 0:01:49.236 about the divisions of religion and class, and not the 0:01:49.236 --> 0:01:52.676 divisions of race. But sometimes I think it's useful to 0:01:52.676 --> 0:01:56.356 take a step back and consider policing in a broader context. 0:01:57.156 --> 0:02:00.076 What happened in Northern Ireland fifty years ago and what 0:02:00.236 --> 0:02:02.356 is happening now on the streets of the United States 0:02:02.636 --> 0:02:06.236 are not all that different. The core question in both 0:02:06.396 --> 0:02:09.316 is if you have power, what does it mean to 0:02:09.396 --> 0:02:13.196 use it wisely? And what are the consequences if you don't. 0:02:14.476 --> 0:02:17.196 So here we go from David and Glyithe Chapter seven 0:02:17.796 --> 0:02:23.236 Rosemary Lawler. When the troubles began in Northern Ireland. Rosemary 0:02:23.276 --> 0:02:26.476 Lawler was a newlywed. She and her husband had just 0:02:26.516 --> 0:02:30.236 bought a house in Belfast. They had a baby. It 0:02:30.316 --> 0:02:34.276 was a summer of nineteen sixty nine and Catholics and Protestants, 0:02:34.716 --> 0:02:37.796 the two religious communities that have lived uneasily alongside each 0:02:37.796 --> 0:02:41.036 other throughout the country's history, were at each other's throat. 0:02:41.676 --> 0:02:46.596 There were bombings and riots. Gangs of Protestant militants loyalists 0:02:46.636 --> 0:02:50.236 as they were called, roamed the streets, burning down houses. 0:02:50.956 --> 0:02:53.956 The Lawlers were Catholic, and Catholics have always been a 0:02:53.956 --> 0:02:57.876 minority in Northern Ireland. Every day they grew more frightened. 0:02:58.836 --> 0:03:01.356 I'd come home at night, Lawler said, and they would 0:03:01.356 --> 0:03:04.716 be riding on the door tags out. Tags is a 0:03:04.756 --> 0:03:08.836 derogatory word for an Irish Catholic, or no pope here. 0:03:09.596 --> 0:03:11.956 Another night we were there. We were very lucky. A 0:03:12.036 --> 0:03:15.276 bomb came into the back yard and didn't explode. One 0:03:15.356 --> 0:03:17.276 day I went to knock on my neighbor's door and 0:03:17.356 --> 0:03:20.076 I realized she was gone. I found out that day 0:03:20.116 --> 0:03:22.796 that a lot of people had gone. So when my husband, 0:03:22.916 --> 0:03:25.156 Terry came home from work, I said, Terry, what's going 0:03:25.156 --> 0:03:29.236 on here? And he said, we're in danger. We left 0:03:29.236 --> 0:03:32.356 the home that night. We had no phone. You remember 0:03:32.516 --> 0:03:35.476 this is in the days before mobiles. We walked out. 0:03:35.876 --> 0:03:38.316 The fear was in me. I put my son in 0:03:38.436 --> 0:03:41.156 his pram. I guided up best we could. Pieces of 0:03:41.196 --> 0:03:43.756 clothes for him and ourselves. There was a tray at 0:03:43.756 --> 0:03:45.396 the bottom of the pram and we stuffed them all 0:03:45.396 --> 0:03:48.436 on the tray and Terry says to me, right, Rosy, 0:03:48.836 --> 0:03:50.716 we're going to walk straight out of here. I'm a 0:03:50.796 --> 0:03:54.876 going to smile at everybody. I was trembling. I was 0:03:54.916 --> 0:03:58.396 a teenage mom, a teenage girl who got married, nineteen married, 0:03:58.436 --> 0:04:01.316 new baby, new world, new life taken away from me 0:04:01.436 --> 0:04:03.596 like that, do you know? And I have no power 0:04:03.596 --> 0:04:06.756 to stop it. Fear is an awful thing, and I 0:04:06.796 --> 0:04:11.796 remember being really, really scared aired. The safest place they 0:04:11.836 --> 0:04:16.356 knew was the all Catholic neighborhood of Ballymurphy in West Belfast, 0:04:16.636 --> 0:04:20.036 where Lawler's parents lived. But they had no car, and 0:04:20.076 --> 0:04:23.476 with Belfast and turmoil, no taxi wanted to venture into 0:04:23.476 --> 0:04:27.116 a Catholic neighborhood. Finally, they tricked the cab into stopping 0:04:27.316 --> 0:04:29.596 by saying their baby was sick and needed to get 0:04:29.636 --> 0:04:32.836 to a hospital. They shut the car door and Terry 0:04:32.876 --> 0:04:36.076 told the driver, I want you to take us to Ballymurphy. 0:04:36.836 --> 0:04:39.436 The driver said, oh, no, I'm not doing that. But 0:04:39.556 --> 0:04:41.676 Terry had a poker and he took it out and 0:04:41.716 --> 0:04:44.076 he placed the point against the back of the driver's 0:04:44.076 --> 0:04:47.716 neck and said, you're going to take us. The cab 0:04:47.836 --> 0:04:50.276 driver drove them to the edge of Ballymurphy and stopped. 0:04:50.876 --> 0:04:52.876 I don't care if you stick that in me. He said, 0:04:53.036 --> 0:04:56.396 I'm not going any further. The Lawlers gathered up their 0:04:56.436 --> 0:05:00.876 baby and their worldly possessions and ran for their lives. 0:05:01.996 --> 0:05:06.316 At the beginning of nineteen seventy, things got worse. That Easter, 0:05:06.636 --> 0:05:09.476 there was a ride in Ballymurphy. The British the Army 0:05:09.516 --> 0:05:12.356 was called in. A fleet of armored cars with barbed 0:05:12.396 --> 0:05:15.996 wire on their bumpers patrolled the streets. Lawla would push 0:05:15.996 --> 0:05:20.196 her pram past soldiers with automatic rifles and tear gas grenades. 0:05:20.876 --> 0:05:23.356 One weekend in June, there was a gun battle in 0:05:23.356 --> 0:05:26.716 the bordering neighborhood. A group of Catholic gunmen stepped into 0:05:26.756 --> 0:05:28.836 the middle of the road and opened fire on a 0:05:28.876 --> 0:05:33.436 group of Protestant bystanders. In response, Protestant loyalists tried to 0:05:33.476 --> 0:05:37.116 burn down a Catholic church near the docks. For five hours, 0:05:37.116 --> 0:05:40.956 the two sides fought locked in deadly gun battle. Hundreds 0:05:40.996 --> 0:05:43.956 of fires burned across the city. By the end of 0:05:43.956 --> 0:05:46.636 the weekend, six people were dead and more than two 0:05:46.716 --> 0:05:50.916 hundred injured. The British Home Secretary responsible for Northern Ireland 0:05:51.316 --> 0:05:55.076 flew up from London, surveyed the chaos and ran back 0:05:55.116 --> 0:05:59.116 to his plane. For God's sake, bring me a large scotch, 0:05:59.156 --> 0:06:02.796 he said, burying his head in his hands. What a 0:06:02.836 --> 0:06:08.196 bloody awful country. A week later a woman came through Ballymurphy. 0:06:08.636 --> 0:06:12.076 Her name was Harriet Carson. She was famous for hitting 0:06:12.076 --> 0:06:14.956 Maggie Thatcher over the head with a handbag at city Hall. 0:06:15.556 --> 0:06:19.076 Lawler said, I knew her growing up. Harriet was coming 0:06:19.116 --> 0:06:21.876 around with two lids of pots and she was banging 0:06:21.916 --> 0:06:24.716 them together and she was shouting, come on, come out, 0:06:24.836 --> 0:06:27.836 come out. The people in the Lower Falls were getting murdered. 0:06:28.356 --> 0:06:30.036 She was shouting it up and I went out to 0:06:30.076 --> 0:06:32.716 the door. My family was all there, and she was shouting. 0:06:32.996 --> 0:06:36.276 They're locked in their houses. Their children can't get milk, 0:06:36.476 --> 0:06:38.436 and they haven't got anything for a cup of tea, 0:06:38.476 --> 0:06:40.716 and there's no bread, and come out, come out. We 0:06:40.796 --> 0:06:44.036 need to do something. The Lower Falls is an all 0:06:44.076 --> 0:06:47.716 Catholic neighborhood just down the hill from Bala Murphy. Lawler 0:06:47.756 --> 0:06:50.236 had gone to school in the Lower Falls. Her uncle 0:06:50.276 --> 0:06:53.396 lived there as did countless cousins. She knew as many 0:06:53.396 --> 0:06:55.636 people in the Lower Falls as she did in Bala Murphy. 0:06:56.316 --> 0:06:59.316 The British Army had put the entire neighborhood under curfew 0:06:59.556 --> 0:07:03.116 while they searched for illegal weapons. I didn't know what 0:07:03.196 --> 0:07:06.756 curfew meant, Lawler said, hadn't a clue. I had to 0:07:06.796 --> 0:07:09.916 say to somebody, what does that mean? She said, they're 0:07:09.956 --> 0:07:12.276 not allowed out of their houses? I said, how can 0:07:12.316 --> 0:07:15.516 they do that? I was totally stunned. Stunned, what do 0:07:15.556 --> 0:07:18.716 you mean the people are locked in their houses, they 0:07:18.756 --> 0:07:21.116 can't get out for bread or milk? While the Brits, 0:07:21.116 --> 0:07:23.876 the British Army were kicking indoors and racking and ruining 0:07:23.916 --> 0:07:28.036 and searching. I was what the biggest thought in everybody's 0:07:28.036 --> 0:07:30.916 mind was, there are people locked in their houses and 0:07:30.916 --> 0:07:34.796 there's children. You have to remember some houses had twelve 0:07:34.876 --> 0:07:37.516 fifteen kids in them. Do you know? That's the way 0:07:37.516 --> 0:07:39.756 it was? What do you mean they can't get out 0:07:39.796 --> 0:07:44.676 of their houses? They were angry. Rose May Lawler is 0:07:44.716 --> 0:07:47.916 now in her sixties, a sturdily built woman with ruddy 0:07:47.996 --> 0:07:50.636 cheeks and short, white blonde hair swept to the side. 0:07:51.396 --> 0:07:53.996 She was a seamstress, by trade, and she was dressed 0:07:54.036 --> 0:07:57.996 with flair, a bright floral blouse and white crop pants. 0:07:58.596 --> 0:08:00.916 She was talking about things that had happened half a 0:08:00.956 --> 0:08:05.596 lifetime ago, but she remembered every moment. My father said, 0:08:06.116 --> 0:08:09.596 the Brits they'll turn on us. They'll say therein here 0:08:09.596 --> 0:08:12.436 to protect us. They'll turn on us. You wait and see. 0:08:12.996 --> 0:08:16.676 And he was one hundred percent right. They turned on us, 0:08:17.236 --> 0:08:19.956 and the curfew was the start of it. The same 0:08:20.036 --> 0:08:24.476 year that Northern Ireland descended into chaos, two economists, Nathan 0:08:24.556 --> 0:08:28.076 Ladies and Charles Wolfe Junior wrote a report about how 0:08:28.076 --> 0:08:31.956 to deal with insurgencies. Ladies and wolf worked for the 0:08:32.076 --> 0:08:35.676 Rand Corporation, the prestigious think tanks started after the Second 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:39.676 World War by the Pentagon. Their report was called Rebellion 0:08:39.836 --> 0:08:43.676 and Authority. In those years when the world was exploding 0:08:43.716 --> 0:08:48.276 in violence, everyone read Ladies and wolf. Rebellion and Authority 0:08:48.476 --> 0:08:51.276 became the blueprint for the war in Vietnam, and for 0:08:51.356 --> 0:08:54.316 how police departments dealt with civil unrest, and for how 0:08:54.356 --> 0:09:00.716 governments cope with terrorism. Its conclusion was simple. Fundamental to 0:09:00.756 --> 0:09:05.516 our analysis is the assumption that the population, as individuals 0:09:05.596 --> 0:09:10.836 or groups behaves rationally, that caluculates costs and benefits to 0:09:10.916 --> 0:09:13.236 the extent that they can be related to different courses 0:09:13.236 --> 0:09:20.076 of action, and makes choices accordingly. Consequently, influencing popular behavior 0:09:20.396 --> 0:09:25.716 requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, but rather a better understanding 0:09:25.916 --> 0:09:28.996 of what costs and benefits the individual or the group 0:09:29.156 --> 0:09:33.716 is concerned with and how they are calculated. In other words, 0:09:33.876 --> 0:09:38.556 getting insurgents to behave is fundamentally a math problem. If 0:09:38.556 --> 0:09:41.356 there are riots in the streets of Belfast, it's because 0:09:41.436 --> 0:09:45.156 the costs to rioters of burning houses and smashing windows 0:09:45.516 --> 0:09:49.076 are high enough. And when Ladies and Wolf said that 0:09:49.156 --> 0:09:54.316 influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, what they 0:09:54.356 --> 0:09:58.836 meant was that nothing mattered but that calculation. If you 0:09:58.956 --> 0:10:01.436 were in a position of power, you didn't have to 0:10:01.476 --> 0:10:04.596 worry about how lawbreakers felt about what you were doing. 0:10:05.316 --> 0:10:07.916 You just had to be tough enough to make them 0:10:07.916 --> 0:10:11.596 think twice. The general in charge of the British forces 0:10:11.636 --> 0:10:14.156 in Northern Ireland was a man straight out of the 0:10:14.196 --> 0:10:17.996 pages of rebellion and authority. His name was Ian Freeland. 0:10:18.796 --> 0:10:21.556 He had served with distinction in Normandy during the Second 0:10:21.556 --> 0:10:25.716 World War and later fought insurgencies in Cyprus and Zanzibar. 0:10:26.356 --> 0:10:29.716 He was trim and forthright, with a straight back and 0:10:29.756 --> 0:10:33.636 a square jaw and a firm hand. He conveyed the 0:10:33.796 --> 0:10:36.996 correct impression of a man who knew what needed to 0:10:37.036 --> 0:10:40.156 be done and would do it. When he arrived in 0:10:40.236 --> 0:10:43.596 Northern Ireland, he made it plain that his patience was limited. 0:10:44.156 --> 0:10:46.956 He was not afraid to use force. He had his 0:10:47.156 --> 0:10:50.796 orders from the Prime Minister. The British Army should deal 0:10:50.956 --> 0:10:55.316 toughly and be seen to deal toughly with thugs and gunmen. 0:10:56.356 --> 0:11:00.076 On June thirtieth, nineteen seventy, the British Army received a 0:11:00.156 --> 0:11:03.796 tip there were explosives and weapons hidden in a house 0:11:04.076 --> 0:11:06.796 at twenty four Balkan Street in the Lower Falls. They 0:11:06.796 --> 0:11:11.876 were told Freeland in nemediately dispatched five armored cars filled 0:11:11.916 --> 0:11:15.116 with soldiers and police officers. A search of the house 0:11:15.276 --> 0:11:18.596 turned up a cache of guns and ammunition. Outside, a 0:11:18.636 --> 0:11:23.756 crowd gathered. Someone started throwing stones. Stones turned into petrol bombs. 0:11:24.316 --> 0:11:27.436 A riot started. By ten pm. The British had had enough. 0:11:28.076 --> 0:11:31.556 An Army helicopter armed with a loud speaker circled the 0:11:31.596 --> 0:11:35.436 Lower Falls, demanding that all residents stay inside their homes 0:11:35.716 --> 0:11:39.756 or face arrest. As the streets cleared, the army launched 0:11:39.796 --> 0:11:43.756 a massive house to house search. Disobedience was met with 0:11:43.876 --> 0:11:49.436 firm and immediate punishment. The next morning, a triumphant Freeland 0:11:49.636 --> 0:11:53.276 took two Protestant government officials and a pack of journalists 0:11:53.356 --> 0:11:54.996 on a two of the neighborhood in the back of 0:11:55.036 --> 0:11:59.436 an open flatbed truck, surveying the deserted streets, like, as 0:11:59.476 --> 0:12:02.916 one soldier later put it, the British raj on a 0:12:02.996 --> 0:12:06.916 tiger hunt. The British Army went to Northern Ireland with 0:12:07.036 --> 0:12:11.156 the best of intentions. The local police force was overwhelmed, 0:12:11.356 --> 0:12:14.556 and they were there simply to help to serve as 0:12:14.556 --> 0:12:19.516 a peacekeeper between Northern Ireland's two warring populations. This was 0:12:19.556 --> 0:12:22.556 not some distant and foreign land. They were dealing with 0:12:22.596 --> 0:12:25.996 their own country, their own language, and their own culture. 0:12:26.596 --> 0:12:30.956 They had resources and weapons and soldiers and experience that 0:12:31.116 --> 0:12:34.676 dwarf those of the insurgent elements they were trying to contain. 0:12:35.636 --> 0:12:38.196 When Freeland toured the empty streets of the Lower Falls 0:12:38.196 --> 0:12:40.836 that morning, he believed that he and his men would 0:12:40.876 --> 0:12:42.876 be back home in England by the end of the summer. 0:12:43.876 --> 0:12:47.356 But that's not what happened. Instead, what should have been 0:12:47.396 --> 0:12:51.916 a difficult few months turned into thirty years of bloodshed 0:12:52.276 --> 0:12:56.636 and mayhem in Northern Ireland. The British made a simple mistake. 0:12:57.476 --> 0:13:00.796 They fell into the trap of believing that because they 0:13:00.836 --> 0:13:06.196 had resources, weapons, soldiers and experience that dwarfed those of 0:13:06.236 --> 0:13:09.356 the insurgent elements they were trying to contain, it did 0:13:09.396 --> 0:13:13.116 not matter what the people of Northern Ireland thought of them. 0:13:13.556 --> 0:13:16.956 General Freeland believed Ladies and Wolf when they said that 0:13:17.316 --> 0:13:23.756 influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, and Ladies 0:13:23.796 --> 0:13:28.116 and Wolf were wrong. It has been said that most 0:13:28.156 --> 0:13:31.436 revolutions are not caused by revolutionaries in the first place, 0:13:31.756 --> 0:13:36.276 but by the stupidity and brutality of governments. Sean macstephen, 0:13:36.436 --> 0:13:39.116 the provisional i RAS for his chief of staff, once said, 0:13:39.596 --> 0:13:43.156 looking back on those early years, well you had that 0:13:43.316 --> 0:13:46.956 to start with in Northern Ireland, all right. The simplest 0:13:46.956 --> 0:13:49.956 way to understand the British mistake in Northern Ireland is 0:13:49.996 --> 0:13:54.316 to picture a classroom. It's a kindergarten class, a room 0:13:54.356 --> 0:13:58.396 with brightly colored walls covered in children's drawings. Let's call 0:13:58.436 --> 0:14:02.916 the teacher Stella. The classroom was videotaped as part of 0:14:02.956 --> 0:14:05.996 a project at the Curry School of Education at the 0:14:06.116 --> 0:14:09.116 University of Virginia, and there is more than enough footage 0:14:09.276 --> 0:14:11.356 to provide a good sense of the kind of teacher 0:14:11.396 --> 0:14:15.396 Stella is and the kind of classroom she has. Even 0:14:15.436 --> 0:14:18.676 after a few minutes, it is abundantly clear that things 0:14:18.756 --> 0:14:22.516 aren't going well. Stella is sitting in a chair at 0:14:22.516 --> 0:14:24.956 the front of the room. She's reading out loud from 0:14:24.956 --> 0:14:27.956 a book that she's holding up to one side. Seven 0:14:27.996 --> 0:14:33.156 slices of tomatoes, eight juicy olives, nine chunks of cheese. 0:14:33.556 --> 0:14:36.276 A girl is standing in front of her, reading along 0:14:36.516 --> 0:14:39.596 and all around her, the class is in chaos, a 0:14:39.636 --> 0:14:42.556 mini version of Belfast in the summer of nineteen seventy. 0:14:43.196 --> 0:14:46.276 A little girl is doing cartwheels across the room. A 0:14:46.356 --> 0:14:49.236 little boy is making faces. Much of the class seems 0:14:49.236 --> 0:14:51.316 to be paying no attention at all. Some of the 0:14:51.356 --> 0:14:55.116 students have actually turned themselves entirely around so that they 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:58.556 have their backs to Stella. If you were to walk 0:14:58.556 --> 0:15:02.756 in on Stella's class, what would you think. I'm guessing 0:15:02.756 --> 0:15:04.876 your first reaction would be that she has a group 0:15:04.956 --> 0:15:08.836 of unruly children. Maybe she teaches in a school in 0:15:08.916 --> 0:15:12.276 a poor neighborhood, and her students come from troubled families. 0:15:12.916 --> 0:15:15.836 Maybe her students come to school without any real respect 0:15:15.876 --> 0:15:19.716 for authority or learning. Ladies and Wolf would say that 0:15:19.796 --> 0:15:23.076 she really needs to use some discipline. Children like that 0:15:23.196 --> 0:15:26.596 need a firm hand, they need rules. If there is 0:15:26.636 --> 0:15:29.876 no order in the classroom, how can any learning take place. 0:15:31.036 --> 0:15:34.196 The truth is, though, that Stella's school isn't in some 0:15:34.476 --> 0:15:39.916 terrible neighborhood. Her students aren't particularly or unusually unruly. When 0:15:39.916 --> 0:15:43.356 the class begins, they are perfectly well behaved and attentive, 0:15:43.756 --> 0:15:46.876 eager and ready to learn. They don't seem like bad 0:15:46.916 --> 0:15:50.556 apples at all. They only start to misbehave well into 0:15:50.596 --> 0:15:53.676 the lesson, and only in response to the way Stella 0:15:53.796 --> 0:15:59.196 is behaving. Stella causes the crisis, how so, by doing 0:15:59.236 --> 0:16:02.876 an appalling job of teaching a lesson. Stella had the 0:16:02.916 --> 0:16:05.596 girl from the class reading alongside her as a way 0:16:05.596 --> 0:16:08.396 of engaging the rest of the students, But the pacing 0:16:08.396 --> 0:16:10.036 of the back and forth between the two of them 0:16:10.396 --> 0:16:14.716 was excruciatingly slow and wooden look at her body language. 0:16:14.836 --> 0:16:17.676 One of the Virginia researchers, bridget Hamry, said as we 0:16:17.716 --> 0:16:20.956 watched Stella right now, she's just talking to this one kid, 0:16:21.116 --> 0:16:24.276 and no one else is getting in. Her colleague Robert 0:16:24.276 --> 0:16:28.316 Pianta added, there's no rhythm, no pace, This is going nowhere. 0:16:28.476 --> 0:16:31.876 There's no value in what she's doing. Only then did 0:16:31.876 --> 0:16:35.996 the class begin to deteriorate. The little boys started making faces. 0:16:36.436 --> 0:16:40.036 When the child started doing cartwheels. Stella missed it entirely. 0:16:40.516 --> 0:16:42.396 Three or four students to the immediate right of the 0:16:42.396 --> 0:16:45.796 teacher were still gamely trying to follow along, but Stella 0:16:45.916 --> 0:16:48.476 was so locked onto the book that she wasn't giving 0:16:48.516 --> 0:16:52.716 them any encouragement. Meanwhile, to Stella's left, five or six 0:16:52.836 --> 0:16:56.196 children had turned themselves around, but that was because they 0:16:56.196 --> 0:17:00.036 were bewildered, not because they were disobedient. Their view of 0:17:00.076 --> 0:17:02.796 the book was completely blocked by the little girl standing 0:17:02.836 --> 0:17:05.436 in front of Stella. They had no way of following along. 0:17:06.156 --> 0:17:10.436 We often think of authority as a response disobedience. A 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:15.676 child acts up, so a teacher cracks down. Stella's classroom, however, 0:17:15.916 --> 0:17:20.196 suggests something quite different. Disobedience can also be a response 0:17:20.276 --> 0:17:23.716 to authority. If the teacher doesn't do her job properly, 0:17:24.196 --> 0:17:29.116 then the child will become disobedient. With classrooms like this one, 0:17:29.276 --> 0:17:33.356 people will call what is happening a behavioral issue. Henry said. 0:17:33.836 --> 0:17:37.076 We were watching one of Stella's kids wiggling and squirming 0:17:37.116 --> 0:17:40.356 and contorting her face and altogether doing whatever she could 0:17:40.396 --> 0:17:43.356 to avoid her teacher. But one of the things we 0:17:43.476 --> 0:17:46.156 find is that this sort of thing is more often 0:17:46.196 --> 0:17:50.356 an engagement problem than a behavioral problem. If a teacher 0:17:50.476 --> 0:17:54.516 is actually doing something interesting, these kids are quite capable 0:17:54.756 --> 0:17:58.436 of being engaged. Instead of responding in a let me 0:17:58.516 --> 0:18:01.916 control your behavior way, the teacher needs to think, how 0:18:01.916 --> 0:18:05.116 can I do something interesting that will prevent you from 0:18:05.156 --> 0:18:09.956 misbehaving in the first place. The next video and Hamry 0:18:09.956 --> 0:18:12.796 played was of a third grade teacher giving homework to 0:18:12.836 --> 0:18:16.916 her students. Each student was given a copy of the assignment, 0:18:17.556 --> 0:18:20.796 and the teacher in the class read the instructions aloud together. 0:18:21.676 --> 0:18:25.316 Pianta was aghast. Just the idea that you would be 0:18:25.436 --> 0:18:27.876 choral reading a set of instructions to a bunch of 0:18:27.876 --> 0:18:31.196 eight year olds is almost disrespectful, he said, I mean, 0:18:31.236 --> 0:18:35.756 why is there any instructional purpose they know how to read. 0:18:36.196 --> 0:18:38.596 It's like a waiter in a restaurant giving the menu 0:18:38.876 --> 0:18:41.636 and then proceeding to read every item to you just 0:18:41.756 --> 0:18:45.196 as it appears on the page. A boy sitting next 0:18:45.236 --> 0:18:47.596 to the teacher raises his hand midway through the reading, 0:18:47.836 --> 0:18:51.476 and without looking at him, the teacher reaches out, grabs 0:18:51.476 --> 0:18:55.916 his wrists and pushes his hand down. Another child starts 0:18:55.956 --> 0:18:59.956 to actually do the assignment, an entirely logical action given 0:18:59.996 --> 0:19:03.076 the pointlessness of what the teacher is doing. The teacher 0:19:03.196 --> 0:19:08.236 addresses him sharply, sweety, this is homework. It was a 0:19:08.236 --> 0:19:11.916 moment of dissipate. The child had broken the rules. The 0:19:11.956 --> 0:19:15.596 teacher had responded firmly and immediately. If you were to 0:19:15.636 --> 0:19:18.236 watch that moment with the sound turned off, you would 0:19:18.276 --> 0:19:21.876 think of it as Ladies and Wolf perfectly applied. But 0:19:21.956 --> 0:19:24.036 if you were to listen to what the teacher was 0:19:24.076 --> 0:19:27.516 saying and think about the incident from the child's perspective, 0:19:27.876 --> 0:19:30.956 it would become clear that it is having anything but 0:19:31.076 --> 0:19:34.516 its intended effect. The little boy isn't going to come 0:19:34.556 --> 0:19:38.116 away with a renewed appreciation of the importance of following 0:19:38.116 --> 0:19:41.556 the rules. He's going to come away angry and disillusioned. 0:19:42.476 --> 0:19:47.076 Why because the punishment is completely arbitrary. He can't speak 0:19:47.116 --> 0:19:49.316 up and give his own side of the story, and 0:19:49.356 --> 0:19:52.996 he wants to learn. If that little boy became defiant, 0:19:53.276 --> 0:19:56.556 it was because his teacher made him that way, just 0:19:56.676 --> 0:20:00.196 as Stella turned an eager and attentive student into someone 0:20:00.196 --> 0:20:04.396 who did cartwheels across the floor. When people in authority 0:20:04.436 --> 0:20:07.356 want the rest of us to behave it matters first 0:20:07.396 --> 0:20:12.676 and foremost how they This is called the principle of legitimacy. 0:20:12.956 --> 0:20:16.436 And legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, 0:20:16.636 --> 0:20:19.156 the people who are asked to obey authority have to 0:20:19.236 --> 0:20:22.116 feel like they have a voice, that if they speak up, 0:20:22.396 --> 0:20:25.996 they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. 0:20:26.596 --> 0:20:29.876 There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules 0:20:29.956 --> 0:20:32.596 tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the 0:20:32.676 --> 0:20:36.996 rules today. And Third, the authority has to be fair. 0:20:37.676 --> 0:20:42.156 It can't treat one group differently from another. All good 0:20:42.196 --> 0:20:46.116 parents understand these three principles implicitly. If you want to 0:20:46.116 --> 0:20:49.116 stop little Johnny from hitting his sister, you can't look 0:20:49.156 --> 0:20:51.996 away one time and scream at him another. You can't 0:20:52.036 --> 0:20:55.076 treat his sister differently when she hits him. And if 0:20:55.076 --> 0:20:57.436 he says he really didn't hit his sister, you have 0:20:57.516 --> 0:21:00.876 to give him a chance to explain himself. How you 0:21:00.916 --> 0:21:04.556 punish is as important as the act of punishing itself. 0:21:05.556 --> 0:21:08.956 Nor is the story of Stella all that surprising anyone. 0:21:09.116 --> 0:21:11.436 He was ever set in a classroom knows that it 0:21:11.516 --> 0:21:14.876 is important for teachers to earn the respect of their students. 0:21:16.036 --> 0:21:19.036 What is harder to understand, however, is the importance of 0:21:19.076 --> 0:21:21.596 these same principles when it comes to law and order. 0:21:22.436 --> 0:21:24.996 We know our parents and our teachers, so it makes 0:21:24.996 --> 0:21:27.996 sense that legitimacy should matter a lot inside the home 0:21:28.196 --> 0:21:31.276 or the school. But the decision about whether to rob 0:21:31.316 --> 0:21:34.636 a bank or shoot someone seems like it belongs to 0:21:34.676 --> 0:21:37.876 a very different category, doesn't it. That's what Ladies and 0:21:37.916 --> 0:21:40.956 Wolf meant when they said that fighting criminals and insurgents 0:21:41.316 --> 0:21:46.116 requires neither sympathy nor mysticism. They were saying that at 0:21:46.156 --> 0:21:48.916 that level, the decision to obey the law is a 0:21:48.956 --> 0:21:53.156 function of a rational calculation of risks and benefits. It 0:21:53.276 --> 0:21:57.756 isn't personal. But that's precisely where they went wrong, because 0:21:57.796 --> 0:22:01.116 getting criminals and insurgents to behave turns out to be 0:22:01.316 --> 0:22:05.396 as dependent on legitimacy as getting children to behave in 0:22:05.436 --> 0:22:09.636 the classroom. When Ladies and Wolf wrote that in fluencing 0:22:09.716 --> 0:22:14.076 popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism. They meant that 0:22:14.156 --> 0:22:17.476 the power of the state was without limits. If you 0:22:17.596 --> 0:22:20.716 wanted to impose order, you didn't have to worry about 0:22:20.716 --> 0:22:23.876 what those whom you were ordering about thought of you. 0:22:23.876 --> 0:22:27.316 You were above that. But Ladies and Wolf had it backwards. 0:22:28.076 --> 0:22:31.396 That was the mistake General Freeland made in the Lower Falls. 0:22:32.036 --> 0:22:33.956 He didn't look at what was happening through the eyes 0:22:33.996 --> 0:22:37.396 of people like Rosemary Lawler. He thought he'd ended the 0:22:37.436 --> 0:22:40.436 insurgency when he rode around the hush streets of the 0:22:40.436 --> 0:22:43.676 Lower Falls like a British raj on a tiger hunt. 0:22:44.636 --> 0:22:47.036 Had he bothered to drive up the street to Ballymurphy, 0:22:47.476 --> 0:22:51.076 where Harriet Carson was banging the lids of pots and saying, 0:22:51.476 --> 0:22:53.836 come on, come out, come out. The people in the 0:22:53.836 --> 0:22:57.196 Lower Falls are getting murdered, he would have realized the 0:22:57.196 --> 0:23:02.156 insurgency was just beginning. July in Northern Ireland is the 0:23:02.196 --> 0:23:05.636 height of what is known as Marching season, when the 0:23:05.676 --> 0:23:10.716 country's Protestant loyalists organized parades to commemorate their long ago 0:23:10.836 --> 0:23:15.796 victories over the country's Catholic minority. There are church parades, 0:23:16.436 --> 0:23:21.836 arch banner and hall parades, commemorative band parades, and Blood 0:23:21.876 --> 0:23:25.756 and Thunder and Kick the Pope flute band parades. There 0:23:25.796 --> 0:23:30.236 are parades with full silver bands, parades with bagpipes, parades 0:23:30.276 --> 0:23:33.876 with accordions, and parades with marchers wearing sashes and dark 0:23:33.956 --> 0:23:37.956 suits and bowler hats. There are hundreds of parades in all, 0:23:38.396 --> 0:23:42.756 involving tens of thousands of people, culminating every year in 0:23:42.836 --> 0:23:45.876 a massive march on the twelfth of July that marks 0:23:45.916 --> 0:23:49.156 the anniversary of the victory by William of Orange in 0:23:49.196 --> 0:23:53.076 the Battle of the Boyne in sixteen ninety, when Protestant 0:23:53.196 --> 0:23:57.796 control over northern Ireland was established once and for all. 0:23:58.916 --> 0:24:02.116 The night before the twelfth, as it is known, marchers 0:24:02.156 --> 0:24:05.916 around the country hold street parties and build enormous bonfires. 0:24:06.596 --> 0:24:09.116 When the fire is at its height, the group chooses 0:24:09.116 --> 0:24:12.716 a symbol to burn. In past years it has often 0:24:12.796 --> 0:24:15.636 been an effigy of the Pope or some hated local 0:24:15.756 --> 0:24:20.476 Catholic official. Here's how one old twelve ditty goes, sung 0:24:20.556 --> 0:24:24.436 to the tune of Clementine. Build a bonfire, Build a 0:24:24.436 --> 0:24:27.996