1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,196 Speaker 1: Bushkin. Hello there, Malcolm Glawell. Here. Many people have spoken 2 00:00:24,276 --> 00:00:27,276 Speaker 1: up over the last few days, very eloquently about the 3 00:00:27,276 --> 00:00:29,596 Speaker 1: tragic death of George Floyd at the hands of a 4 00:00:29,596 --> 00:00:33,516 Speaker 1: police officer in Minneapolis. It says something about the country 5 00:00:33,556 --> 00:00:36,036 Speaker 1: we live in that the most powerful things I've heard 6 00:00:36,036 --> 00:00:38,916 Speaker 1: have come from mayors and preachers and rappers and talk 7 00:00:38,956 --> 00:00:42,756 Speaker 1: show hosts and countless ordinary people on Twitter, while the 8 00:00:42,756 --> 00:00:45,836 Speaker 1: White House turned off its lights and the President hid 9 00:00:45,836 --> 00:00:51,636 Speaker 1: in an underground bunker. Sometimes words fail me. As those 10 00:00:51,636 --> 00:00:53,516 Speaker 1: of you who have followed my career now, I've been 11 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:56,116 Speaker 1: writing and thinking about race and policing for a very 12 00:00:56,156 --> 00:00:59,116 Speaker 1: long time. The final chapter of my second book, Blink, 13 00:00:59,516 --> 00:01:01,556 Speaker 1: was about the forty one shots fired at a young 14 00:01:01,636 --> 00:01:05,756 Speaker 1: African immigrant named Amadu Diallo by New York City police 15 00:01:05,756 --> 00:01:09,196 Speaker 1: officers in nineteen ninety nine as he stood on his 16 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:12,236 Speaker 1: front porch and reach for his wallet to show them 17 00:01:12,316 --> 00:01:16,476 Speaker 1: his ID. My latest book, Talking to Strangers, starts and 18 00:01:16,596 --> 00:01:19,756 Speaker 1: ends with the tragic encounter between a young African American woman, 19 00:01:19,996 --> 00:01:23,436 Speaker 1: Sandra Bland, and a highway patrolman on the streets of 20 00:01:23,516 --> 00:01:26,716 Speaker 1: Prairie View, Texas. So I wanted to add my voice 21 00:01:26,716 --> 00:01:29,636 Speaker 1: to the chorus and share some of that work. And 22 00:01:29,716 --> 00:01:32,276 Speaker 1: what I decided on is a portion of the audiobook 23 00:01:32,316 --> 00:01:35,396 Speaker 1: version of my book David and Goliath. It was published 24 00:01:35,476 --> 00:01:38,796 Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, and this chapter is about a riot 25 00:01:38,796 --> 00:01:42,436 Speaker 1: that took place in Belfast, in Northern Ireland. It's about 26 00:01:42,476 --> 00:01:46,196 Speaker 1: a situation from miles away and many years ago, and 27 00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:49,236 Speaker 1: about the divisions of religion and class, and not the 28 00:01:49,236 --> 00:01:52,676 Speaker 1: divisions of race. But sometimes I think it's useful to 29 00:01:52,676 --> 00:01:56,356 Speaker 1: take a step back and consider policing in a broader context. 30 00:01:57,156 --> 00:02:00,076 Speaker 1: What happened in Northern Ireland fifty years ago and what 31 00:02:00,236 --> 00:02:02,356 Speaker 1: is happening now on the streets of the United States 32 00:02:02,636 --> 00:02:06,236 Speaker 1: are not all that different. The core question in both 33 00:02:06,396 --> 00:02:09,316 Speaker 1: is if you have power, what does it mean to 34 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:13,196 Speaker 1: use it wisely? And what are the consequences if you don't. 35 00:02:14,476 --> 00:02:17,196 Speaker 1: So here we go from David and Glyithe Chapter seven 36 00:02:17,796 --> 00:02:23,236 Speaker 1: Rosemary Lawler. When the troubles began in Northern Ireland. Rosemary 37 00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:26,476 Speaker 1: Lawler was a newlywed. She and her husband had just 38 00:02:26,516 --> 00:02:30,236 Speaker 1: bought a house in Belfast. They had a baby. It 39 00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:34,276 Speaker 1: was a summer of nineteen sixty nine and Catholics and Protestants, 40 00:02:34,716 --> 00:02:37,796 Speaker 1: the two religious communities that have lived uneasily alongside each 41 00:02:37,796 --> 00:02:41,036 Speaker 1: other throughout the country's history, were at each other's throat. 42 00:02:41,676 --> 00:02:46,596 Speaker 1: There were bombings and riots. Gangs of Protestant militants loyalists 43 00:02:46,636 --> 00:02:50,236 Speaker 1: as they were called, roamed the streets, burning down houses. 44 00:02:50,956 --> 00:02:53,956 Speaker 1: The Lawlers were Catholic, and Catholics have always been a 45 00:02:53,956 --> 00:02:57,876 Speaker 1: minority in Northern Ireland. Every day they grew more frightened. 46 00:02:58,836 --> 00:03:01,356 Speaker 1: I'd come home at night, Lawler said, and they would 47 00:03:01,356 --> 00:03:04,716 Speaker 1: be riding on the door tags out. Tags is a 48 00:03:04,756 --> 00:03:08,836 Speaker 1: derogatory word for an Irish Catholic, or no pope here. 49 00:03:09,596 --> 00:03:11,956 Speaker 1: Another night we were there. We were very lucky. A 50 00:03:12,036 --> 00:03:15,276 Speaker 1: bomb came into the back yard and didn't explode. One 51 00:03:15,356 --> 00:03:17,276 Speaker 1: day I went to knock on my neighbor's door and 52 00:03:17,356 --> 00:03:20,076 Speaker 1: I realized she was gone. I found out that day 53 00:03:20,116 --> 00:03:22,796 Speaker 1: that a lot of people had gone. So when my husband, 54 00:03:22,916 --> 00:03:25,156 Speaker 1: Terry came home from work, I said, Terry, what's going 55 00:03:25,156 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 1: on here? And he said, we're in danger. We left 56 00:03:29,236 --> 00:03:32,356 Speaker 1: the home that night. We had no phone. You remember 57 00:03:32,516 --> 00:03:35,476 Speaker 1: this is in the days before mobiles. We walked out. 58 00:03:35,876 --> 00:03:38,316 Speaker 1: The fear was in me. I put my son in 59 00:03:38,436 --> 00:03:41,156 Speaker 1: his pram. I guided up best we could. Pieces of 60 00:03:41,196 --> 00:03:43,756 Speaker 1: clothes for him and ourselves. There was a tray at 61 00:03:43,756 --> 00:03:45,396 Speaker 1: the bottom of the pram and we stuffed them all 62 00:03:45,396 --> 00:03:48,436 Speaker 1: on the tray and Terry says to me, right, Rosy, 63 00:03:48,836 --> 00:03:50,716 Speaker 1: we're going to walk straight out of here. I'm a 64 00:03:50,796 --> 00:03:54,876 Speaker 1: going to smile at everybody. I was trembling. I was 65 00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:58,396 Speaker 1: a teenage mom, a teenage girl who got married, nineteen married, 66 00:03:58,436 --> 00:04:01,316 Speaker 1: new baby, new world, new life taken away from me 67 00:04:01,436 --> 00:04:03,596 Speaker 1: like that, do you know? And I have no power 68 00:04:03,596 --> 00:04:06,756 Speaker 1: to stop it. Fear is an awful thing, and I 69 00:04:06,796 --> 00:04:11,796 Speaker 1: remember being really, really scared aired. The safest place they 70 00:04:11,836 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: knew was the all Catholic neighborhood of Ballymurphy in West Belfast, 71 00:04:16,636 --> 00:04:20,036 Speaker 1: where Lawler's parents lived. But they had no car, and 72 00:04:20,076 --> 00:04:23,476 Speaker 1: with Belfast and turmoil, no taxi wanted to venture into 73 00:04:23,476 --> 00:04:27,116 Speaker 1: a Catholic neighborhood. Finally, they tricked the cab into stopping 74 00:04:27,316 --> 00:04:29,596 Speaker 1: by saying their baby was sick and needed to get 75 00:04:29,636 --> 00:04:32,836 Speaker 1: to a hospital. They shut the car door and Terry 76 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:36,076 Speaker 1: told the driver, I want you to take us to Ballymurphy. 77 00:04:36,836 --> 00:04:39,436 Speaker 1: The driver said, oh, no, I'm not doing that. But 78 00:04:39,556 --> 00:04:41,676 Speaker 1: Terry had a poker and he took it out and 79 00:04:41,716 --> 00:04:44,076 Speaker 1: he placed the point against the back of the driver's 80 00:04:44,076 --> 00:04:47,716 Speaker 1: neck and said, you're going to take us. The cab 81 00:04:47,836 --> 00:04:50,276 Speaker 1: driver drove them to the edge of Ballymurphy and stopped. 82 00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:52,876 Speaker 1: I don't care if you stick that in me. He said, 83 00:04:53,036 --> 00:04:56,396 Speaker 1: I'm not going any further. The Lawlers gathered up their 84 00:04:56,436 --> 00:05:00,876 Speaker 1: baby and their worldly possessions and ran for their lives. 85 00:05:01,996 --> 00:05:06,316 Speaker 1: At the beginning of nineteen seventy, things got worse. That Easter, 86 00:05:06,636 --> 00:05:09,476 Speaker 1: there was a ride in Ballymurphy. The British the Army 87 00:05:09,516 --> 00:05:12,356 Speaker 1: was called in. A fleet of armored cars with barbed 88 00:05:12,396 --> 00:05:15,996 Speaker 1: wire on their bumpers patrolled the streets. Lawla would push 89 00:05:15,996 --> 00:05:20,196 Speaker 1: her pram past soldiers with automatic rifles and tear gas grenades. 90 00:05:20,876 --> 00:05:23,356 Speaker 1: One weekend in June, there was a gun battle in 91 00:05:23,356 --> 00:05:26,716 Speaker 1: the bordering neighborhood. A group of Catholic gunmen stepped into 92 00:05:26,756 --> 00:05:28,836 Speaker 1: the middle of the road and opened fire on a 93 00:05:28,876 --> 00:05:33,436 Speaker 1: group of Protestant bystanders. In response, Protestant loyalists tried to 94 00:05:33,476 --> 00:05:37,116 Speaker 1: burn down a Catholic church near the docks. For five hours, 95 00:05:37,116 --> 00:05:40,956 Speaker 1: the two sides fought locked in deadly gun battle. Hundreds 96 00:05:40,996 --> 00:05:43,956 Speaker 1: of fires burned across the city. By the end of 97 00:05:43,956 --> 00:05:46,636 Speaker 1: the weekend, six people were dead and more than two 98 00:05:46,716 --> 00:05:50,916 Speaker 1: hundred injured. The British Home Secretary responsible for Northern Ireland 99 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:55,076 Speaker 1: flew up from London, surveyed the chaos and ran back 100 00:05:55,116 --> 00:05:59,116 Speaker 1: to his plane. For God's sake, bring me a large scotch, 101 00:05:59,156 --> 00:06:02,796 Speaker 1: he said, burying his head in his hands. What a 102 00:06:02,836 --> 00:06:08,196 Speaker 1: bloody awful country. A week later a woman came through Ballymurphy. 103 00:06:08,636 --> 00:06:12,076 Speaker 1: Her name was Harriet Carson. She was famous for hitting 104 00:06:12,076 --> 00:06:14,956 Speaker 1: Maggie Thatcher over the head with a handbag at city Hall. 105 00:06:15,556 --> 00:06:19,076 Speaker 1: Lawler said, I knew her growing up. Harriet was coming 106 00:06:19,116 --> 00:06:21,876 Speaker 1: around with two lids of pots and she was banging 107 00:06:21,916 --> 00:06:24,716 Speaker 1: them together and she was shouting, come on, come out, 108 00:06:24,836 --> 00:06:27,836 Speaker 1: come out. The people in the Lower Falls were getting murdered. 109 00:06:28,356 --> 00:06:30,036 Speaker 1: She was shouting it up and I went out to 110 00:06:30,076 --> 00:06:32,716 Speaker 1: the door. My family was all there, and she was shouting. 111 00:06:32,996 --> 00:06:36,276 Speaker 1: They're locked in their houses. Their children can't get milk, 112 00:06:36,476 --> 00:06:38,436 Speaker 1: and they haven't got anything for a cup of tea, 113 00:06:38,476 --> 00:06:40,716 Speaker 1: and there's no bread, and come out, come out. We 114 00:06:40,796 --> 00:06:44,036 Speaker 1: need to do something. The Lower Falls is an all 115 00:06:44,076 --> 00:06:47,716 Speaker 1: Catholic neighborhood just down the hill from Bala Murphy. Lawler 116 00:06:47,756 --> 00:06:50,236 Speaker 1: had gone to school in the Lower Falls. Her uncle 117 00:06:50,276 --> 00:06:53,396 Speaker 1: lived there as did countless cousins. She knew as many 118 00:06:53,396 --> 00:06:55,636 Speaker 1: people in the Lower Falls as she did in Bala Murphy. 119 00:06:56,316 --> 00:06:59,316 Speaker 1: The British Army had put the entire neighborhood under curfew 120 00:06:59,556 --> 00:07:03,116 Speaker 1: while they searched for illegal weapons. I didn't know what 121 00:07:03,196 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 1: curfew meant, Lawler said, hadn't a clue. I had to 122 00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:09,916 Speaker 1: say to somebody, what does that mean? She said, they're 123 00:07:09,956 --> 00:07:12,276 Speaker 1: not allowed out of their houses? I said, how can 124 00:07:12,316 --> 00:07:15,516 Speaker 1: they do that? I was totally stunned. Stunned, what do 125 00:07:15,556 --> 00:07:18,716 Speaker 1: you mean the people are locked in their houses, they 126 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:21,116 Speaker 1: can't get out for bread or milk? While the Brits, 127 00:07:21,116 --> 00:07:23,876 Speaker 1: the British Army were kicking indoors and racking and ruining 128 00:07:23,916 --> 00:07:28,036 Speaker 1: and searching. I was what the biggest thought in everybody's 129 00:07:28,036 --> 00:07:30,916 Speaker 1: mind was, there are people locked in their houses and 130 00:07:30,916 --> 00:07:34,796 Speaker 1: there's children. You have to remember some houses had twelve 131 00:07:34,876 --> 00:07:37,516 Speaker 1: fifteen kids in them. Do you know? That's the way 132 00:07:37,516 --> 00:07:39,756 Speaker 1: it was? What do you mean they can't get out 133 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:44,676 Speaker 1: of their houses? They were angry. Rose May Lawler is 134 00:07:44,716 --> 00:07:47,916 Speaker 1: now in her sixties, a sturdily built woman with ruddy 135 00:07:47,996 --> 00:07:50,636 Speaker 1: cheeks and short, white blonde hair swept to the side. 136 00:07:51,396 --> 00:07:53,996 Speaker 1: She was a seamstress, by trade, and she was dressed 137 00:07:54,036 --> 00:07:57,996 Speaker 1: with flair, a bright floral blouse and white crop pants. 138 00:07:58,596 --> 00:08:00,916 Speaker 1: She was talking about things that had happened half a 139 00:08:00,956 --> 00:08:05,596 Speaker 1: lifetime ago, but she remembered every moment. My father said, 140 00:08:06,116 --> 00:08:09,596 Speaker 1: the Brits they'll turn on us. They'll say therein here 141 00:08:09,596 --> 00:08:12,436 Speaker 1: to protect us. They'll turn on us. You wait and see. 142 00:08:12,996 --> 00:08:16,676 Speaker 1: And he was one hundred percent right. They turned on us, 143 00:08:17,236 --> 00:08:19,956 Speaker 1: and the curfew was the start of it. The same 144 00:08:20,036 --> 00:08:24,476 Speaker 1: year that Northern Ireland descended into chaos, two economists, Nathan 145 00:08:24,556 --> 00:08:28,076 Speaker 1: Ladies and Charles Wolfe Junior wrote a report about how 146 00:08:28,076 --> 00:08:31,956 Speaker 1: to deal with insurgencies. Ladies and wolf worked for the 147 00:08:32,076 --> 00:08:35,676 Speaker 1: Rand Corporation, the prestigious think tanks started after the Second 148 00:08:35,716 --> 00:08:39,676 Speaker 1: World War by the Pentagon. Their report was called Rebellion 149 00:08:39,836 --> 00:08:43,676 Speaker 1: and Authority. In those years when the world was exploding 150 00:08:43,716 --> 00:08:48,276 Speaker 1: in violence, everyone read Ladies and wolf. Rebellion and Authority 151 00:08:48,476 --> 00:08:51,276 Speaker 1: became the blueprint for the war in Vietnam, and for 152 00:08:51,356 --> 00:08:54,316 Speaker 1: how police departments dealt with civil unrest, and for how 153 00:08:54,356 --> 00:09:00,716 Speaker 1: governments cope with terrorism. Its conclusion was simple. Fundamental to 154 00:09:00,756 --> 00:09:05,516 Speaker 1: our analysis is the assumption that the population, as individuals 155 00:09:05,596 --> 00:09:10,836 Speaker 1: or groups behaves rationally, that caluculates costs and benefits to 156 00:09:10,916 --> 00:09:13,236 Speaker 1: the extent that they can be related to different courses 157 00:09:13,236 --> 00:09:20,076 Speaker 1: of action, and makes choices accordingly. Consequently, influencing popular behavior 158 00:09:20,396 --> 00:09:25,716 Speaker 1: requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, but rather a better understanding 159 00:09:25,916 --> 00:09:28,996 Speaker 1: of what costs and benefits the individual or the group 160 00:09:29,156 --> 00:09:33,716 Speaker 1: is concerned with and how they are calculated. In other words, 161 00:09:33,876 --> 00:09:38,556 Speaker 1: getting insurgents to behave is fundamentally a math problem. If 162 00:09:38,556 --> 00:09:41,356 Speaker 1: there are riots in the streets of Belfast, it's because 163 00:09:41,436 --> 00:09:45,156 Speaker 1: the costs to rioters of burning houses and smashing windows 164 00:09:45,516 --> 00:09:49,076 Speaker 1: are high enough. And when Ladies and Wolf said that 165 00:09:49,156 --> 00:09:54,316 Speaker 1: influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, what they 166 00:09:54,356 --> 00:09:58,836 Speaker 1: meant was that nothing mattered but that calculation. If you 167 00:09:58,956 --> 00:10:01,436 Speaker 1: were in a position of power, you didn't have to 168 00:10:01,476 --> 00:10:04,596 Speaker 1: worry about how lawbreakers felt about what you were doing. 169 00:10:05,316 --> 00:10:07,916 Speaker 1: You just had to be tough enough to make them 170 00:10:07,916 --> 00:10:11,596 Speaker 1: think twice. The general in charge of the British forces 171 00:10:11,636 --> 00:10:14,156 Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland was a man straight out of the 172 00:10:14,196 --> 00:10:17,996 Speaker 1: pages of rebellion and authority. His name was Ian Freeland. 173 00:10:18,796 --> 00:10:21,556 Speaker 1: He had served with distinction in Normandy during the Second 174 00:10:21,556 --> 00:10:25,716 Speaker 1: World War and later fought insurgencies in Cyprus and Zanzibar. 175 00:10:26,356 --> 00:10:29,716 Speaker 1: He was trim and forthright, with a straight back and 176 00:10:29,756 --> 00:10:33,636 Speaker 1: a square jaw and a firm hand. He conveyed the 177 00:10:33,796 --> 00:10:36,996 Speaker 1: correct impression of a man who knew what needed to 178 00:10:37,036 --> 00:10:40,156 Speaker 1: be done and would do it. When he arrived in 179 00:10:40,236 --> 00:10:43,596 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland, he made it plain that his patience was limited. 180 00:10:44,156 --> 00:10:46,956 Speaker 1: He was not afraid to use force. He had his 181 00:10:47,156 --> 00:10:50,796 Speaker 1: orders from the Prime Minister. The British Army should deal 182 00:10:50,956 --> 00:10:55,316 Speaker 1: toughly and be seen to deal toughly with thugs and gunmen. 183 00:10:56,356 --> 00:11:00,076 Speaker 1: On June thirtieth, nineteen seventy, the British Army received a 184 00:11:00,156 --> 00:11:03,796 Speaker 1: tip there were explosives and weapons hidden in a house 185 00:11:04,076 --> 00:11:06,796 Speaker 1: at twenty four Balkan Street in the Lower Falls. They 186 00:11:06,796 --> 00:11:11,876 Speaker 1: were told Freeland in nemediately dispatched five armored cars filled 187 00:11:11,916 --> 00:11:15,116 Speaker 1: with soldiers and police officers. A search of the house 188 00:11:15,276 --> 00:11:18,596 Speaker 1: turned up a cache of guns and ammunition. Outside, a 189 00:11:18,636 --> 00:11:23,756 Speaker 1: crowd gathered. Someone started throwing stones. Stones turned into petrol bombs. 190 00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:27,436 Speaker 1: A riot started. By ten pm. The British had had enough. 191 00:11:28,076 --> 00:11:31,556 Speaker 1: An Army helicopter armed with a loud speaker circled the 192 00:11:31,596 --> 00:11:35,436 Speaker 1: Lower Falls, demanding that all residents stay inside their homes 193 00:11:35,716 --> 00:11:39,756 Speaker 1: or face arrest. As the streets cleared, the army launched 194 00:11:39,796 --> 00:11:43,756 Speaker 1: a massive house to house search. Disobedience was met with 195 00:11:43,876 --> 00:11:49,436 Speaker 1: firm and immediate punishment. The next morning, a triumphant Freeland 196 00:11:49,636 --> 00:11:53,276 Speaker 1: took two Protestant government officials and a pack of journalists 197 00:11:53,356 --> 00:11:54,996 Speaker 1: on a two of the neighborhood in the back of 198 00:11:55,036 --> 00:11:59,436 Speaker 1: an open flatbed truck, surveying the deserted streets, like, as 199 00:11:59,476 --> 00:12:02,916 Speaker 1: one soldier later put it, the British raj on a 200 00:12:02,996 --> 00:12:06,916 Speaker 1: tiger hunt. The British Army went to Northern Ireland with 201 00:12:07,036 --> 00:12:11,156 Speaker 1: the best of intentions. The local police force was overwhelmed, 202 00:12:11,356 --> 00:12:14,556 Speaker 1: and they were there simply to help to serve as 203 00:12:14,556 --> 00:12:19,516 Speaker 1: a peacekeeper between Northern Ireland's two warring populations. This was 204 00:12:19,556 --> 00:12:22,556 Speaker 1: not some distant and foreign land. They were dealing with 205 00:12:22,596 --> 00:12:25,996 Speaker 1: their own country, their own language, and their own culture. 206 00:12:26,596 --> 00:12:30,956 Speaker 1: They had resources and weapons and soldiers and experience that 207 00:12:31,116 --> 00:12:34,676 Speaker 1: dwarf those of the insurgent elements they were trying to contain. 208 00:12:35,636 --> 00:12:38,196 Speaker 1: When Freeland toured the empty streets of the Lower Falls 209 00:12:38,196 --> 00:12:40,836 Speaker 1: that morning, he believed that he and his men would 210 00:12:40,876 --> 00:12:42,876 Speaker 1: be back home in England by the end of the summer. 211 00:12:43,876 --> 00:12:47,356 Speaker 1: But that's not what happened. Instead, what should have been 212 00:12:47,396 --> 00:12:51,916 Speaker 1: a difficult few months turned into thirty years of bloodshed 213 00:12:52,276 --> 00:12:56,636 Speaker 1: and mayhem in Northern Ireland. The British made a simple mistake. 214 00:12:57,476 --> 00:13:00,796 Speaker 1: They fell into the trap of believing that because they 215 00:13:00,836 --> 00:13:06,196 Speaker 1: had resources, weapons, soldiers and experience that dwarfed those of 216 00:13:06,236 --> 00:13:09,356 Speaker 1: the insurgent elements they were trying to contain, it did 217 00:13:09,396 --> 00:13:13,116 Speaker 1: not matter what the people of Northern Ireland thought of them. 218 00:13:13,556 --> 00:13:16,956 Speaker 1: General Freeland believed Ladies and Wolf when they said that 219 00:13:17,316 --> 00:13:23,756 Speaker 1: influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, and Ladies 220 00:13:23,796 --> 00:13:28,116 Speaker 1: and Wolf were wrong. It has been said that most 221 00:13:28,156 --> 00:13:31,436 Speaker 1: revolutions are not caused by revolutionaries in the first place, 222 00:13:31,756 --> 00:13:36,276 Speaker 1: but by the stupidity and brutality of governments. Sean macstephen, 223 00:13:36,436 --> 00:13:39,116 Speaker 1: the provisional i RAS for his chief of staff, once said, 224 00:13:39,596 --> 00:13:43,156 Speaker 1: looking back on those early years, well you had that 225 00:13:43,316 --> 00:13:46,956 Speaker 1: to start with in Northern Ireland, all right. The simplest 226 00:13:46,956 --> 00:13:49,956 Speaker 1: way to understand the British mistake in Northern Ireland is 227 00:13:49,996 --> 00:13:54,316 Speaker 1: to picture a classroom. It's a kindergarten class, a room 228 00:13:54,356 --> 00:13:58,396 Speaker 1: with brightly colored walls covered in children's drawings. Let's call 229 00:13:58,436 --> 00:14:02,916 Speaker 1: the teacher Stella. The classroom was videotaped as part of 230 00:14:02,956 --> 00:14:05,996 Speaker 1: a project at the Curry School of Education at the 231 00:14:06,116 --> 00:14:09,116 Speaker 1: University of Virginia, and there is more than enough footage 232 00:14:09,276 --> 00:14:11,356 Speaker 1: to provide a good sense of the kind of teacher 233 00:14:11,396 --> 00:14:15,396 Speaker 1: Stella is and the kind of classroom she has. Even 234 00:14:15,436 --> 00:14:18,676 Speaker 1: after a few minutes, it is abundantly clear that things 235 00:14:18,756 --> 00:14:22,516 Speaker 1: aren't going well. Stella is sitting in a chair at 236 00:14:22,516 --> 00:14:24,956 Speaker 1: the front of the room. She's reading out loud from 237 00:14:24,956 --> 00:14:27,956 Speaker 1: a book that she's holding up to one side. Seven 238 00:14:27,996 --> 00:14:33,156 Speaker 1: slices of tomatoes, eight juicy olives, nine chunks of cheese. 239 00:14:33,556 --> 00:14:36,276 Speaker 1: A girl is standing in front of her, reading along 240 00:14:36,516 --> 00:14:39,596 Speaker 1: and all around her, the class is in chaos, a 241 00:14:39,636 --> 00:14:42,556 Speaker 1: mini version of Belfast in the summer of nineteen seventy. 242 00:14:43,196 --> 00:14:46,276 Speaker 1: A little girl is doing cartwheels across the room. A 243 00:14:46,356 --> 00:14:49,236 Speaker 1: little boy is making faces. Much of the class seems 244 00:14:49,236 --> 00:14:51,316 Speaker 1: to be paying no attention at all. Some of the 245 00:14:51,356 --> 00:14:55,116 Speaker 1: students have actually turned themselves entirely around so that they 246 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:58,556 Speaker 1: have their backs to Stella. If you were to walk 247 00:14:58,556 --> 00:15:02,756 Speaker 1: in on Stella's class, what would you think. I'm guessing 248 00:15:02,756 --> 00:15:04,876 Speaker 1: your first reaction would be that she has a group 249 00:15:04,956 --> 00:15:08,836 Speaker 1: of unruly children. Maybe she teaches in a school in 250 00:15:08,916 --> 00:15:12,276 Speaker 1: a poor neighborhood, and her students come from troubled families. 251 00:15:12,916 --> 00:15:15,836 Speaker 1: Maybe her students come to school without any real respect 252 00:15:15,876 --> 00:15:19,716 Speaker 1: for authority or learning. Ladies and Wolf would say that 253 00:15:19,796 --> 00:15:23,076 Speaker 1: she really needs to use some discipline. Children like that 254 00:15:23,196 --> 00:15:26,596 Speaker 1: need a firm hand, they need rules. If there is 255 00:15:26,636 --> 00:15:29,876 Speaker 1: no order in the classroom, how can any learning take place. 256 00:15:31,036 --> 00:15:34,196 Speaker 1: The truth is, though, that Stella's school isn't in some 257 00:15:34,476 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 1: terrible neighborhood. Her students aren't particularly or unusually unruly. When 258 00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:43,356 Speaker 1: the class begins, they are perfectly well behaved and attentive, 259 00:15:43,756 --> 00:15:46,876 Speaker 1: eager and ready to learn. They don't seem like bad 260 00:15:46,916 --> 00:15:50,556 Speaker 1: apples at all. They only start to misbehave well into 261 00:15:50,596 --> 00:15:53,676 Speaker 1: the lesson, and only in response to the way Stella 262 00:15:53,796 --> 00:15:59,196 Speaker 1: is behaving. Stella causes the crisis, how so, by doing 263 00:15:59,236 --> 00:16:02,876 Speaker 1: an appalling job of teaching a lesson. Stella had the 264 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:05,596 Speaker 1: girl from the class reading alongside her as a way 265 00:16:05,596 --> 00:16:08,396 Speaker 1: of engaging the rest of the students, But the pacing 266 00:16:08,396 --> 00:16:10,036 Speaker 1: of the back and forth between the two of them 267 00:16:10,396 --> 00:16:14,716 Speaker 1: was excruciatingly slow and wooden look at her body language. 268 00:16:14,836 --> 00:16:17,676 Speaker 1: One of the Virginia researchers, bridget Hamry, said as we 269 00:16:17,716 --> 00:16:20,956 Speaker 1: watched Stella right now, she's just talking to this one kid, 270 00:16:21,116 --> 00:16:24,276 Speaker 1: and no one else is getting in. Her colleague Robert 271 00:16:24,276 --> 00:16:28,316 Speaker 1: Pianta added, there's no rhythm, no pace, This is going nowhere. 272 00:16:28,476 --> 00:16:31,876 Speaker 1: There's no value in what she's doing. Only then did 273 00:16:31,876 --> 00:16:35,996 Speaker 1: the class begin to deteriorate. The little boys started making faces. 274 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:40,036 Speaker 1: When the child started doing cartwheels. Stella missed it entirely. 275 00:16:40,516 --> 00:16:42,396 Speaker 1: Three or four students to the immediate right of the 276 00:16:42,396 --> 00:16:45,796 Speaker 1: teacher were still gamely trying to follow along, but Stella 277 00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 1: was so locked onto the book that she wasn't giving 278 00:16:48,516 --> 00:16:52,716 Speaker 1: them any encouragement. Meanwhile, to Stella's left, five or six 279 00:16:52,836 --> 00:16:56,196 Speaker 1: children had turned themselves around, but that was because they 280 00:16:56,196 --> 00:17:00,036 Speaker 1: were bewildered, not because they were disobedient. Their view of 281 00:17:00,076 --> 00:17:02,796 Speaker 1: the book was completely blocked by the little girl standing 282 00:17:02,836 --> 00:17:05,436 Speaker 1: in front of Stella. They had no way of following along. 283 00:17:06,156 --> 00:17:10,436 Speaker 1: We often think of authority as a response disobedience. A 284 00:17:10,556 --> 00:17:15,676 Speaker 1: child acts up, so a teacher cracks down. Stella's classroom, however, 285 00:17:15,916 --> 00:17:20,196 Speaker 1: suggests something quite different. Disobedience can also be a response 286 00:17:20,276 --> 00:17:23,716 Speaker 1: to authority. If the teacher doesn't do her job properly, 287 00:17:24,196 --> 00:17:29,116 Speaker 1: then the child will become disobedient. With classrooms like this one, 288 00:17:29,276 --> 00:17:33,356 Speaker 1: people will call what is happening a behavioral issue. Henry said. 289 00:17:33,836 --> 00:17:37,076 Speaker 1: We were watching one of Stella's kids wiggling and squirming 290 00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:40,356 Speaker 1: and contorting her face and altogether doing whatever she could 291 00:17:40,396 --> 00:17:43,356 Speaker 1: to avoid her teacher. But one of the things we 292 00:17:43,476 --> 00:17:46,156 Speaker 1: find is that this sort of thing is more often 293 00:17:46,196 --> 00:17:50,356 Speaker 1: an engagement problem than a behavioral problem. If a teacher 294 00:17:50,476 --> 00:17:54,516 Speaker 1: is actually doing something interesting, these kids are quite capable 295 00:17:54,756 --> 00:17:58,436 Speaker 1: of being engaged. Instead of responding in a let me 296 00:17:58,516 --> 00:18:01,916 Speaker 1: control your behavior way, the teacher needs to think, how 297 00:18:01,916 --> 00:18:05,116 Speaker 1: can I do something interesting that will prevent you from 298 00:18:05,156 --> 00:18:09,956 Speaker 1: misbehaving in the first place. The next video and Hamry 299 00:18:09,956 --> 00:18:12,796 Speaker 1: played was of a third grade teacher giving homework to 300 00:18:12,836 --> 00:18:16,916 Speaker 1: her students. Each student was given a copy of the assignment, 301 00:18:17,556 --> 00:18:20,796 Speaker 1: and the teacher in the class read the instructions aloud together. 302 00:18:21,676 --> 00:18:25,316 Speaker 1: Pianta was aghast. Just the idea that you would be 303 00:18:25,436 --> 00:18:27,876 Speaker 1: choral reading a set of instructions to a bunch of 304 00:18:27,876 --> 00:18:31,196 Speaker 1: eight year olds is almost disrespectful, he said, I mean, 305 00:18:31,236 --> 00:18:35,756 Speaker 1: why is there any instructional purpose they know how to read. 306 00:18:36,196 --> 00:18:38,596 Speaker 1: It's like a waiter in a restaurant giving the menu 307 00:18:38,876 --> 00:18:41,636 Speaker 1: and then proceeding to read every item to you just 308 00:18:41,756 --> 00:18:45,196 Speaker 1: as it appears on the page. A boy sitting next 309 00:18:45,236 --> 00:18:47,596 Speaker 1: to the teacher raises his hand midway through the reading, 310 00:18:47,836 --> 00:18:51,476 Speaker 1: and without looking at him, the teacher reaches out, grabs 311 00:18:51,476 --> 00:18:55,916 Speaker 1: his wrists and pushes his hand down. Another child starts 312 00:18:55,956 --> 00:18:59,956 Speaker 1: to actually do the assignment, an entirely logical action given 313 00:18:59,996 --> 00:19:03,076 Speaker 1: the pointlessness of what the teacher is doing. The teacher 314 00:19:03,196 --> 00:19:08,236 Speaker 1: addresses him sharply, sweety, this is homework. It was a 315 00:19:08,236 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: moment of dissipate. The child had broken the rules. The 316 00:19:11,956 --> 00:19:15,596 Speaker 1: teacher had responded firmly and immediately. If you were to 317 00:19:15,636 --> 00:19:18,236 Speaker 1: watch that moment with the sound turned off, you would 318 00:19:18,276 --> 00:19:21,876 Speaker 1: think of it as Ladies and Wolf perfectly applied. But 319 00:19:21,956 --> 00:19:24,036 Speaker 1: if you were to listen to what the teacher was 320 00:19:24,076 --> 00:19:27,516 Speaker 1: saying and think about the incident from the child's perspective, 321 00:19:27,876 --> 00:19:30,956 Speaker 1: it would become clear that it is having anything but 322 00:19:31,076 --> 00:19:34,516 Speaker 1: its intended effect. The little boy isn't going to come 323 00:19:34,556 --> 00:19:38,116 Speaker 1: away with a renewed appreciation of the importance of following 324 00:19:38,116 --> 00:19:41,556 Speaker 1: the rules. He's going to come away angry and disillusioned. 325 00:19:42,476 --> 00:19:47,076 Speaker 1: Why because the punishment is completely arbitrary. He can't speak 326 00:19:47,116 --> 00:19:49,316 Speaker 1: up and give his own side of the story, and 327 00:19:49,356 --> 00:19:52,996 Speaker 1: he wants to learn. If that little boy became defiant, 328 00:19:53,276 --> 00:19:56,556 Speaker 1: it was because his teacher made him that way, just 329 00:19:56,676 --> 00:20:00,196 Speaker 1: as Stella turned an eager and attentive student into someone 330 00:20:00,196 --> 00:20:04,396 Speaker 1: who did cartwheels across the floor. When people in authority 331 00:20:04,436 --> 00:20:07,356 Speaker 1: want the rest of us to behave it matters first 332 00:20:07,396 --> 00:20:12,676 Speaker 1: and foremost how they This is called the principle of legitimacy. 333 00:20:12,956 --> 00:20:16,436 Speaker 1: And legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, 334 00:20:16,636 --> 00:20:19,156 Speaker 1: the people who are asked to obey authority have to 335 00:20:19,236 --> 00:20:22,116 Speaker 1: feel like they have a voice, that if they speak up, 336 00:20:22,396 --> 00:20:25,996 Speaker 1: they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. 337 00:20:26,596 --> 00:20:29,876 Speaker 1: There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules 338 00:20:29,956 --> 00:20:32,596 Speaker 1: tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the 339 00:20:32,676 --> 00:20:36,996 Speaker 1: rules today. And Third, the authority has to be fair. 340 00:20:37,676 --> 00:20:42,156 Speaker 1: It can't treat one group differently from another. All good 341 00:20:42,196 --> 00:20:46,116 Speaker 1: parents understand these three principles implicitly. If you want to 342 00:20:46,116 --> 00:20:49,116 Speaker 1: stop little Johnny from hitting his sister, you can't look 343 00:20:49,156 --> 00:20:51,996 Speaker 1: away one time and scream at him another. You can't 344 00:20:52,036 --> 00:20:55,076 Speaker 1: treat his sister differently when she hits him. And if 345 00:20:55,076 --> 00:20:57,436 Speaker 1: he says he really didn't hit his sister, you have 346 00:20:57,516 --> 00:21:00,876 Speaker 1: to give him a chance to explain himself. How you 347 00:21:00,916 --> 00:21:04,556 Speaker 1: punish is as important as the act of punishing itself. 348 00:21:05,556 --> 00:21:08,956 Speaker 1: Nor is the story of Stella all that surprising anyone. 349 00:21:09,116 --> 00:21:11,436 Speaker 1: He was ever set in a classroom knows that it 350 00:21:11,516 --> 00:21:14,876 Speaker 1: is important for teachers to earn the respect of their students. 351 00:21:16,036 --> 00:21:19,036 Speaker 1: What is harder to understand, however, is the importance of 352 00:21:19,076 --> 00:21:21,596 Speaker 1: these same principles when it comes to law and order. 353 00:21:22,436 --> 00:21:24,996 Speaker 1: We know our parents and our teachers, so it makes 354 00:21:24,996 --> 00:21:27,996 Speaker 1: sense that legitimacy should matter a lot inside the home 355 00:21:28,196 --> 00:21:31,276 Speaker 1: or the school. But the decision about whether to rob 356 00:21:31,316 --> 00:21:34,636 Speaker 1: a bank or shoot someone seems like it belongs to 357 00:21:34,676 --> 00:21:37,876 Speaker 1: a very different category, doesn't it. That's what Ladies and 358 00:21:37,916 --> 00:21:40,956 Speaker 1: Wolf meant when they said that fighting criminals and insurgents 359 00:21:41,316 --> 00:21:46,116 Speaker 1: requires neither sympathy nor mysticism. They were saying that at 360 00:21:46,156 --> 00:21:48,916 Speaker 1: that level, the decision to obey the law is a 361 00:21:48,956 --> 00:21:53,156 Speaker 1: function of a rational calculation of risks and benefits. It 362 00:21:53,276 --> 00:21:57,756 Speaker 1: isn't personal. But that's precisely where they went wrong, because 363 00:21:57,796 --> 00:22:01,116 Speaker 1: getting criminals and insurgents to behave turns out to be 364 00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:05,396 Speaker 1: as dependent on legitimacy as getting children to behave in 365 00:22:05,436 --> 00:22:09,636 Speaker 1: the classroom. When Ladies and Wolf wrote that in fluencing 366 00:22:09,716 --> 00:22:14,076 Speaker 1: popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism. They meant that 367 00:22:14,156 --> 00:22:17,476 Speaker 1: the power of the state was without limits. If you 368 00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:20,716 Speaker 1: wanted to impose order, you didn't have to worry about 369 00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:23,876 Speaker 1: what those whom you were ordering about thought of you. 370 00:22:23,876 --> 00:22:27,316 Speaker 1: You were above that. But Ladies and Wolf had it backwards. 371 00:22:28,076 --> 00:22:31,396 Speaker 1: That was the mistake General Freeland made in the Lower Falls. 372 00:22:32,036 --> 00:22:33,956 Speaker 1: He didn't look at what was happening through the eyes 373 00:22:33,996 --> 00:22:37,396 Speaker 1: of people like Rosemary Lawler. He thought he'd ended the 374 00:22:37,436 --> 00:22:40,436 Speaker 1: insurgency when he rode around the hush streets of the 375 00:22:40,436 --> 00:22:43,676 Speaker 1: Lower Falls like a British raj on a tiger hunt. 376 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:47,036 Speaker 1: Had he bothered to drive up the street to Ballymurphy, 377 00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:51,076 Speaker 1: where Harriet Carson was banging the lids of pots and saying, 378 00:22:51,476 --> 00:22:53,836 Speaker 1: come on, come out, come out. The people in the 379 00:22:53,836 --> 00:22:57,196 Speaker 1: Lower Falls are getting murdered, he would have realized the 380 00:22:57,196 --> 00:23:02,156 Speaker 1: insurgency was just beginning. July in Northern Ireland is the 381 00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:05,636 Speaker 1: height of what is known as Marching season, when the 382 00:23:05,676 --> 00:23:10,716 Speaker 1: country's Protestant loyalists organized parades to commemorate their long ago 383 00:23:10,836 --> 00:23:15,796 Speaker 1: victories over the country's Catholic minority. There are church parades, 384 00:23:16,436 --> 00:23:21,836 Speaker 1: arch banner and hall parades, commemorative band parades, and Blood 385 00:23:21,876 --> 00:23:25,756 Speaker 1: and Thunder and Kick the Pope flute band parades. There 386 00:23:25,796 --> 00:23:30,236 Speaker 1: are parades with full silver bands, parades with bagpipes, parades 387 00:23:30,276 --> 00:23:33,876 Speaker 1: with accordions, and parades with marchers wearing sashes and dark 388 00:23:33,956 --> 00:23:37,956 Speaker 1: suits and bowler hats. There are hundreds of parades in all, 389 00:23:38,396 --> 00:23:42,756 Speaker 1: involving tens of thousands of people, culminating every year in 390 00:23:42,836 --> 00:23:45,876 Speaker 1: a massive march on the twelfth of July that marks 391 00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:49,156 Speaker 1: the anniversary of the victory by William of Orange in 392 00:23:49,196 --> 00:23:53,076 Speaker 1: the Battle of the Boyne in sixteen ninety, when Protestant 393 00:23:53,196 --> 00:23:57,796 Speaker 1: control over northern Ireland was established once and for all. 394 00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:02,116 Speaker 1: The night before the twelfth, as it is known, marchers 395 00:24:02,156 --> 00:24:05,916 Speaker 1: around the country hold street parties and build enormous bonfires. 396 00:24:06,596 --> 00:24:09,116 Speaker 1: When the fire is at its height, the group chooses 397 00:24:09,116 --> 00:24:12,716 Speaker 1: a symbol to burn. In past years it has often 398 00:24:12,796 --> 00:24:15,636 Speaker 1: been an effigy of the Pope or some hated local 399 00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:20,476 Speaker 1: Catholic official. Here's how one old twelve ditty goes, sung 400 00:24:20,556 --> 00:24:24,436 Speaker 1: to the tune of Clementine. Build a bonfire, Build a 401 00:24:24,436 --> 00:24:27,996 Speaker 1: bonfire stick a Catholic on the top, Put the Pope 402 00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:32,236 Speaker 1: right in the middle, and burn the fucking lot. Northern 403 00:24:32,236 --> 00:24:35,796 Speaker 1: Island is not a large country. Its cities are dense 404 00:24:35,836 --> 00:24:38,996 Speaker 1: and compact, and as the loyalists march by each summer 405 00:24:39,276 --> 00:24:43,156 Speaker 1: in their bowler hats and sashes with flutes, they inevitably 406 00:24:43,236 --> 00:24:45,836 Speaker 1: pass by the neighborhoods of the people whose defeat they 407 00:24:45,836 --> 00:24:50,636 Speaker 1: are celebrating. The central artery of Catholic West Belfast is 408 00:24:50,676 --> 00:24:53,316 Speaker 1: in places no more than a few minutes walk from 409 00:24:53,316 --> 00:24:57,036 Speaker 1: the street that runs through the heart of Protestant West Belfast. 410 00:24:57,596 --> 00:25:00,596 Speaker 1: There are places in Belfast where the houses of Catholics 411 00:25:00,796 --> 00:25:04,916 Speaker 1: back directly onto the backyards of Protestants, in such close 412 00:25:04,996 --> 00:25:08,596 Speaker 1: proximity that each house has a giant metal great over 413 00:25:08,636 --> 00:25:12,436 Speaker 1: its backd yard to protect the inhabitants against debris or 414 00:25:12,476 --> 00:25:16,396 Speaker 1: petrol bombs thrown by their neighbors. On the night before 415 00:25:16,436 --> 00:25:20,476 Speaker 1: the twelfth, when Loyalists lit bonfires around the city, people 416 00:25:20,556 --> 00:25:24,076 Speaker 1: in Catholic neighborhoods would smell the smoke and hear the 417 00:25:24,196 --> 00:25:28,636 Speaker 1: chance and see their flag going up in flames. In 418 00:25:28,756 --> 00:25:33,436 Speaker 1: marching season, violence always erupts in Northern Ireland. One of 419 00:25:33,436 --> 00:25:36,716 Speaker 1: the instants that began the troubles was in nineteen sixty nine, 420 00:25:37,036 --> 00:25:40,076 Speaker 1: after two days of riots broke out when a parade 421 00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:43,596 Speaker 1: passed through a Catholic neighborhood. When the marchers went home, 422 00:25:43,796 --> 00:25:46,556 Speaker 1: they went on a rampage to the streets of West Belfast, 423 00:25:47,196 --> 00:25:51,396 Speaker 1: burning down scores of homes. The gun battles the following 424 00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:56,796 Speaker 1: summer that so tried Freeland's patience also happened during Protestant marches. 425 00:25:57,516 --> 00:26:01,076 Speaker 1: Imagine that every summer usr veterans from the Northern States 426 00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:04,876 Speaker 1: paraded through the streets of Atlanta and Richmond to commemorate 427 00:26:04,916 --> 00:26:08,556 Speaker 1: their long ago victory in the American Civil War. In 428 00:26:08,636 --> 00:26:12,316 Speaker 1: the dark years of Northern Ireland, when Catholic and Protestant 429 00:26:12,556 --> 00:26:16,596 Speaker 1: were at each other's throat, that's what marching season felt like. 430 00:26:17,916 --> 00:26:20,516 Speaker 1: When the residents of the Lower Falls looked up that 431 00:26:20,596 --> 00:26:24,156 Speaker 1: afternoon and saw the British Army descend on their neighborhood, 432 00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:27,276 Speaker 1: then they were as desperate as anyone to see law 433 00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:31,356 Speaker 1: and oder enforced in Belfast, but they were equally anxious 434 00:26:31,436 --> 00:26:35,436 Speaker 1: about how law and oder would be enforced. Their world 435 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:39,636 Speaker 1: did not seem fair. The twelfth, when either their flag 436 00:26:39,836 --> 00:26:43,476 Speaker 1: or their pope would be burned in giant bonfires, was 437 00:26:43,516 --> 00:26:47,556 Speaker 1: only days away. The institution charged with keeping both sides 438 00:26:47,556 --> 00:26:51,196 Speaker 1: apart during marching season was the police force, the Royal 439 00:26:51,356 --> 00:26:57,516 Speaker 1: Ulster Constabulary, but the RUC was almost entirely Protestant. It 440 00:26:57,596 --> 00:27:00,916 Speaker 1: belonged to the other side. The RUC had done almost 441 00:27:00,916 --> 00:27:03,516 Speaker 1: nothing to try and stop the riots the previous summer. 442 00:27:04,276 --> 00:27:07,876 Speaker 1: A tribunal convened by the British government concluded, after the 443 00:27:07,916 --> 00:27:12,596 Speaker 1: Protestant loyalists had torched houses, that the RUC officers had 444 00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:17,836 Speaker 1: failed to take effective action. Journalists at the scene reported 445 00:27:17,876 --> 00:27:21,116 Speaker 1: loyalists going up to police officers and asking them if 446 00:27:21,116 --> 00:27:24,516 Speaker 1: they could borrow their weapons. One of the reasons the 447 00:27:24,556 --> 00:27:27,396 Speaker 1: British Army had been brought into Northern Island was to 448 00:27:27,436 --> 00:27:32,796 Speaker 1: serve as an impartial referee between Protestant and Catholic but 449 00:27:32,956 --> 00:27:37,476 Speaker 1: England was an overwhelmingly Protestant country, so it seemed only 450 00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:41,316 Speaker 1: natural to Northern Ireland's beleaguered Catholics that the sympathies of 451 00:27:41,356 --> 00:27:45,596 Speaker 1: the soldiers would ultimately lie with the Protestants. When a 452 00:27:45,636 --> 00:27:49,156 Speaker 1: big loyalist march had run through Ballymurphy in the easter 453 00:27:49,316 --> 00:27:53,756 Speaker 1: before the Lower Falls curfew, British soldiers had stood between 454 00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:57,276 Speaker 1: the marchers and the residents, ostensibly to act as a buffer. 455 00:27:57,916 --> 00:28:00,836 Speaker 1: But the troops faced the Catholics on a sidewalk and 456 00:28:00,916 --> 00:28:03,636 Speaker 1: stood with their backs to the loyalists, as if they 457 00:28:03,676 --> 00:28:06,756 Speaker 1: saw their job as to protect the Loyalists from the Catholics, 458 00:28:06,956 --> 00:28:10,756 Speaker 1: but not the Catholics from the loyalists. General Freeland was 459 00:28:10,836 --> 00:28:14,236 Speaker 1: trying to enforce the law in Belfast, but he needed 460 00:28:14,236 --> 00:28:17,636 Speaker 1: to first ask himself if he had the legitimacy to 461 00:28:17,836 --> 00:28:21,756 Speaker 1: enforce the law, and the truth is he didn't. He 462 00:28:21,876 --> 00:28:24,516 Speaker 1: was in charge of an institution that the Catholics of 463 00:28:24,596 --> 00:28:29,316 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland believed, with good reason, was thoroughly sympathetic to 464 00:28:29,356 --> 00:28:31,716 Speaker 1: the very people who had burned down the houses of 465 00:28:31,796 --> 00:28:35,236 Speaker 1: their friends and relatives the previous summer. And when the 466 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:38,956 Speaker 1: law is applied in the absence of legitimacy, it does 467 00:28:38,996 --> 00:28:44,516 Speaker 1: not produce obedience. It produces the opposite. It leads to backlash. 468 00:28:45,596 --> 00:28:48,276 Speaker 1: The great puzzle of Northern Island is why it took 469 00:28:48,316 --> 00:28:52,836 Speaker 1: the British so long to understand this. In nineteen sixty nine, 470 00:28:53,036 --> 00:28:57,436 Speaker 1: the troubles resulted in thirteen deaths, seventy three shootings and 471 00:28:57,596 --> 00:29:02,476 Speaker 1: eight bombings. In nineteen seventy, Freeland decided to get tough 472 00:29:02,556 --> 00:29:05,916 Speaker 1: with thugs and gunmen, warning that any one caught throwing 473 00:29:05,956 --> 00:29:10,756 Speaker 1: gasoline bombs was liable to be shot. What happened, The 474 00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:15,756 Speaker 1: historian Desmond Hamil rights. The IRA retaliated by saying that 475 00:29:15,796 --> 00:29:20,156 Speaker 1: they would shoot soldiers if irishmen were shot. The Protestant 476 00:29:20,276 --> 00:29:24,756 Speaker 1: Ulster Volunteer Force, an extreme and illegal paramilitary unit, quickly 477 00:29:24,836 --> 00:29:27,836 Speaker 1: joined in, offering to shoot a Catholic in return for 478 00:29:27,916 --> 00:29:31,796 Speaker 1: every soldier shot by the IRA. The Times quoted a 479 00:29:31,836 --> 00:29:36,836 Speaker 1: Belfast citizen saying, anyone who isn't confused here doesn't really 480 00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:41,036 Speaker 1: understand what is going on. That year there were twenty 481 00:29:41,116 --> 00:29:44,756 Speaker 1: five deaths, two hundred and thirteen shootings and one hundred 482 00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:49,196 Speaker 1: and fifty five bombings. The British stood firm They cracked 483 00:29:49,236 --> 00:29:52,636 Speaker 1: down even harder, and in nineteen seventy one there were 484 00:29:52,676 --> 00:29:56,316 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty four deaths, one thousand and twenty 485 00:29:56,396 --> 00:30:00,476 Speaker 1: bombings and one thousand, seven hundred and fifty six shootings. 486 00:30:01,436 --> 00:30:04,236 Speaker 1: Then the British drew a line in the sand. The 487 00:30:04,396 --> 00:30:09,436 Speaker 1: army instituted a policy known as internment. Civil rights in 488 00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:13,276 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland were suspended. The country was flooded with troops 489 00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:17,556 Speaker 1: and the Army declared that anyone suspected of terrorist activities 490 00:30:17,676 --> 00:30:22,356 Speaker 1: would be arrested and held in prison indefinitely without charges 491 00:30:22,436 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 1: or trial. So many young Catholic men were rounded up 492 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:29,996 Speaker 1: during internment that in a neighborhood like Ballymurphy, everyone had 493 00:30:29,996 --> 00:30:32,796 Speaker 1: a brother, or a father or a cousin in prison. 494 00:30:33,796 --> 00:30:36,356 Speaker 1: If that many people in your life have served time 495 00:30:36,396 --> 00:30:40,436 Speaker 1: behind bars, does the law seem fair anymore? Does it 496 00:30:40,476 --> 00:30:43,796 Speaker 1: seem predictable? Does it seem like you can speak up 497 00:30:43,796 --> 00:30:48,196 Speaker 1: and be heard? Things got even worse. In nineteen seventy two. 498 00:30:48,556 --> 00:30:51,796 Speaker 1: There were one thousand, four hundred and ninety five shootings, 499 00:30:52,156 --> 00:30:55,956 Speaker 1: five hundred and thirty one armed robberies, one thousand, nine 500 00:30:56,036 --> 00:30:59,156 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty one bombings, and four hundred and ninety 501 00:30:59,196 --> 00:31:03,036 Speaker 1: seven people killed. One of those four hundred and ninety 502 00:31:03,076 --> 00:31:08,036 Speaker 1: seven was a seventeen year old boy named Amen. Aimon 503 00:31:08,516 --> 00:31:12,796 Speaker 1: was Rosemary Lawler's little brother. Amon appeared at my door. 504 00:31:13,156 --> 00:31:16,316 Speaker 1: Lawler said. He said to me, I'd love to stay 505 00:31:16,356 --> 00:31:19,076 Speaker 1: here for a day or two, and I said, why 506 00:31:19,116 --> 00:31:22,516 Speaker 1: don't you? He said, Ma would have a fit, she 507 00:31:22,556 --> 00:31:26,156 Speaker 1: would go ballistic. Then he confided in myself and my 508 00:31:26,276 --> 00:31:29,076 Speaker 1: husband that he was getting harassed by the British Army. 509 00:31:29,836 --> 00:31:33,796 Speaker 1: Every time he was out, every corner he turned, everywhere 510 00:31:33,796 --> 00:31:37,396 Speaker 1: he went, they were stopping him and they threatened him. 511 00:31:37,876 --> 00:31:40,756 Speaker 1: Was he actually working with the IRA. She didn't know, 512 00:31:41,076 --> 00:31:44,396 Speaker 1: and she said it didn't matter. We were all suspects 513 00:31:44,436 --> 00:31:47,156 Speaker 1: in their eyes. She went on, that's the way it was. 514 00:31:47,956 --> 00:31:52,036 Speaker 1: And Amon was shot shot by a British soldier. Him 515 00:31:52,076 --> 00:31:54,956 Speaker 1: and another fellow were having a smoke and one shot 516 00:31:55,076 --> 00:31:59,196 Speaker 1: rang out and Amon got it. He lived for eleven weeks. 517 00:31:59,676 --> 00:32:02,596 Speaker 1: He died on the sixteenth of January, at seventeen and 518 00:32:02,676 --> 00:32:05,796 Speaker 1: a half years of age. She began to tear up. 519 00:32:06,796 --> 00:32:09,756 Speaker 1: My father never worked again at the dock. My mother 520 00:32:09,876 --> 00:32:13,996 Speaker 1: was destroyed, heart broken. It's forty years ago this year, 521 00:32:14,756 --> 00:32:18,436 Speaker 1: it's still rough. Lalla was a young wife and mother 522 00:32:18,916 --> 00:32:21,316 Speaker 1: living what she had expected would be a normal life 523 00:32:21,556 --> 00:32:25,476 Speaker 1: in modern Belfast. But then she lost her home. She 524 00:32:25,596 --> 00:32:28,876 Speaker 1: was threatened and harassed. Her relatives down the hill were 525 00:32:28,916 --> 00:32:32,476 Speaker 1: imprisoned in their homes. Her brother was shot and killed. 526 00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:35,756 Speaker 1: She never wanted any of it, nor asked for any 527 00:32:35,756 --> 00:32:38,156 Speaker 1: of it, nor could even make sense of what happened. 528 00:32:39,276 --> 00:32:42,276 Speaker 1: That was my life, my whole new life, she said. 529 00:32:42,956 --> 00:32:46,236 Speaker 1: And then this was forced upon me, and I go. 530 00:32:46,716 --> 00:32:49,396 Speaker 1: This is not right. Do you know? Here are my 531 00:32:49,516 --> 00:32:51,836 Speaker 1: people I grew up with in school being burnt out 532 00:32:51,876 --> 00:32:55,036 Speaker 1: of their houses. The British Army that came in to 533 00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:58,236 Speaker 1: protect us has now turned on us and is racking 534 00:32:58,356 --> 00:33:02,876 Speaker 1: and ruining. I became hooked. I don't mean that flippantly. 535 00:33:03,516 --> 00:33:05,796 Speaker 1: I became that way because I can't sit in the 536 00:33:05,876 --> 00:33:09,076 Speaker 1: house while this is going on. I can't be an 537 00:33:09,196 --> 00:33:13,676 Speaker 1: nine to five mother. People call it the troubles, she continued. 538 00:33:14,276 --> 00:33:17,716 Speaker 1: It was war. The British Army was out there with 539 00:33:17,956 --> 00:33:20,596 Speaker 1: armored cars and weapons and you name it. That's a 540 00:33:20,636 --> 00:33:23,676 Speaker 1: war zone we lived in. The British Army came in 541 00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:26,476 Speaker 1: here with every means that they had available to put 542 00:33:26,556 --> 00:33:29,716 Speaker 1: us down, and we were like rubber dolls. We'd just 543 00:33:29,836 --> 00:33:32,636 Speaker 1: bounced back up again. Don't get me wrong, we got 544 00:33:32,716 --> 00:33:35,636 Speaker 1: hurt on the way down. A lot of people had heartache. 545 00:33:35,876 --> 00:33:38,836 Speaker 1: I suffered from anger for a long long time, and 546 00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:42,916 Speaker 1: I've apologized to my children for that. But the circumstances 547 00:33:42,956 --> 00:33:47,236 Speaker 1: dictated that it wasn't how I was. I wasn't born 548 00:33:47,276 --> 00:33:52,196 Speaker 1: that way. This was forced upon me when General Freeland's 549 00:33:52,236 --> 00:33:55,436 Speaker 1: men descended on the Lower Falls. The first thing the 550 00:33:55,436 --> 00:33:58,956 Speaker 1: neighbors did was to run to Saint Peter's Cathedral, the 551 00:33:58,996 --> 00:34:02,916 Speaker 1: local Catholic church, just a few blocks away. The defining 552 00:34:02,956 --> 00:34:05,596 Speaker 1: feature of the Lower Falls, like so many of the 553 00:34:05,636 --> 00:34:10,636 Speaker 1: other Catholic neighborhoods of West Belfast, was its religiousosity. Saint 554 00:34:10,716 --> 00:34:14,356 Speaker 1: Peter's was the heart of the neighborhood. Four hundred people 555 00:34:14,396 --> 00:34:17,556 Speaker 1: would attend mass at Saint Peter's on a typical weekday. 556 00:34:18,476 --> 00:34:22,236 Speaker 1: The most important man in the community was the local priest. 557 00:34:23,076 --> 00:34:26,636 Speaker 1: He came running. He went up to the soldiers. The 558 00:34:26,756 --> 00:34:29,596 Speaker 1: raid must be done quickly, he warned them, or they 559 00:34:29,596 --> 00:34:33,836 Speaker 1: would be trouble. Forty five minutes passed and the soldiers 560 00:34:33,876 --> 00:34:38,636 Speaker 1: emerged with their hall fifteen pistols, a rifle, a Schmeiser's 561 00:34:38,676 --> 00:34:42,876 Speaker 1: submachine gun, and a cache of explosives and ammunition. The 562 00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:46,356 Speaker 1: patrol packed up and left, turning onto a side street 563 00:34:46,356 --> 00:34:49,036 Speaker 1: that would take them out of the Lower Falls. In 564 00:34:49,076 --> 00:34:52,356 Speaker 1: the interim, however, a small crowded gathered, and as the 565 00:34:52,516 --> 00:34:55,396 Speaker 1: armored cars turned the corner, a number of young men 566 00:34:55,516 --> 00:34:59,556 Speaker 1: ran forward and started throwing stones at the soldiers. The 567 00:34:59,596 --> 00:35:04,796 Speaker 1: patrol stopped, the crowd grew angry. The soldiers responded with teargas. 568 00:35:05,516 --> 00:35:09,596 Speaker 1: The crowd grew angrier. Stones turned to petrol b and 569 00:35:09,636 --> 00:35:13,276 Speaker 1: petrol bombs to bullets. A taxi driver said he had 570 00:35:13,316 --> 00:35:16,996 Speaker 1: seen someone carrying a submachine gun heading for Balkon Street. 571 00:35:17,716 --> 00:35:21,076 Speaker 1: The riders set up roadblocks to slow the army's advance. 572 00:35:21,676 --> 00:35:24,876 Speaker 1: A truck was set ablaze one block away, blocking the 573 00:35:24,956 --> 00:35:28,436 Speaker 1: end of the street. The soldiers fired even more tear 574 00:35:28,476 --> 00:35:31,476 Speaker 1: gas until the wind had carried it clear across the 575 00:35:31,516 --> 00:35:36,756 Speaker 1: lower Falls. The crowd grew angrier. Still, why did the 576 00:35:36,756 --> 00:35:41,116 Speaker 1: patrol stop? Why didn't they just keep going? Lingering in 577 00:35:41,156 --> 00:35:43,676 Speaker 1: the neighborhood is exactly what the priest told them not 578 00:35:43,916 --> 00:35:47,236 Speaker 1: to do. The priests went back to the soldiers and 579 00:35:47,476 --> 00:35:50,436 Speaker 1: pleaded with them again. If they stopped the tear gas, 580 00:35:50,476 --> 00:35:53,716 Speaker 1: he said he would get the crowd to stop throwing stones. 581 00:35:54,596 --> 00:35:58,276 Speaker 1: The soldiers didn't listen. Their instructions were to get tough 582 00:35:58,436 --> 00:36:01,356 Speaker 1: and be seen, to get tough with thugs and gunmen. 583 00:36:02,036 --> 00:36:04,876 Speaker 1: The priest turned back towards the crowd. As he did, 584 00:36:05,116 --> 00:36:08,396 Speaker 1: the soldiers fired off another round of tear gas. The 585 00:36:08,476 --> 00:36:11,556 Speaker 1: canisters felt the feet of the priest, and he staggered 586 00:36:11,556 --> 00:36:14,196 Speaker 1: across the street, leaning on a window sill. As he 587 00:36:14,316 --> 00:36:18,356 Speaker 1: gasped for air. In a neighborhood so devout that four 588 00:36:18,476 --> 00:36:22,076 Speaker 1: hundred people would show Upromasse on a typical weekday, the 589 00:36:22,156 --> 00:36:26,876 Speaker 1: British Army gas the priest. That was when the riots started. 590 00:36:27,476 --> 00:36:31,436 Speaker 1: Freeland called in reinforcements to subdue a community of eight 591 00:36:31,516 --> 00:36:35,756 Speaker 1: thousand people packed into tiny houses along narrow streets. The 592 00:36:35,796 --> 00:36:39,676 Speaker 1: British brought in three thousand troops, and not just any 593 00:36:39,676 --> 00:36:43,996 Speaker 1: troops to a fiercely Catholic neighborhood. Freeland brought in soldiers 594 00:36:44,036 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 1: from the Royal Scots, one of the most obviously and 595 00:36:47,316 --> 00:36:53,036 Speaker 1: self consciously Protestant regiments in the entire army. Army helicopters 596 00:36:53,076 --> 00:36:57,036 Speaker 1: circled overhead, ordering the residents by megaphone to stay inside 597 00:36:57,076 --> 00:37:01,556 Speaker 1: their homes. Roadblocks were placed at every exit, a curfew 598 00:37:01,636 --> 00:37:05,036 Speaker 1: was declared and a systematic house by house search began. 599 00:37:05,956 --> 00:37:09,436 Speaker 1: Twenty and twenty one year old soldiers, still small charting 600 00:37:09,436 --> 00:37:13,476 Speaker 1: from the indignity of being pelted with stones and petrol bombs, 601 00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:17,436 Speaker 1: forced their way into home after home, punching holes in 602 00:37:17,516 --> 00:37:21,756 Speaker 1: walls and ceilings, ran sacking bedrooms. Listen to one of 603 00:37:21,796 --> 00:37:25,036 Speaker 1: those British soldiers looking back on what happened that night. 604 00:37:26,116 --> 00:37:29,316 Speaker 1: A guy still in his pajamas came out cursing, wielding 605 00:37:29,316 --> 00:37:32,996 Speaker 1: a lamp and waxed stan across the head stand, dodged 606 00:37:33,036 --> 00:37:36,036 Speaker 1: the next one, and decked the bloke with his rifle butt. 607 00:37:36,476 --> 00:37:38,276 Speaker 1: I knew full well that a lot of the lads 608 00:37:38,436 --> 00:37:41,796 Speaker 1: were taking this opportunity to vent their anger over things 609 00:37:41,876 --> 00:37:45,956 Speaker 1: already done. Heads were being cracked and houses trashed from 610 00:37:45,996 --> 00:37:49,276 Speaker 1: top to bottom. Everything in the houses became a mass 611 00:37:49,276 --> 00:37:53,236 Speaker 1: of rubble. But out of the blur, little sharp details 612 00:37:53,236 --> 00:38:00,236 Speaker 1: still cut through. School photos, smiley family pictures, cracked trinkets 613 00:38:00,236 --> 00:38:05,396 Speaker 1: and crucifixes, stamped kids crying, crunching on the glass of 614 00:38:05,436 --> 00:38:10,556 Speaker 1: the Pope's picture, unfinished meals and bad wallpapers, colored toys 615 00:38:10,556 --> 00:38:15,796 Speaker 1: and TV noise and radio crackle, painted plates, shoes, a 616 00:38:15,836 --> 00:38:19,396 Speaker 1: body in the hall flattened against the wall. This is 617 00:38:19,436 --> 00:38:23,836 Speaker 1: when I did feel like we'd invaded. Three hundred and 618 00:38:23,956 --> 00:38:27,916 Speaker 1: thirty seven people were arrested that night. Sixty were injured. 619 00:38:28,796 --> 00:38:32,396 Speaker 1: Charles O'Neill, a disabled Air Force veteran, was run over 620 00:38:32,436 --> 00:38:36,036 Speaker 1: and killed by a British armored car. As his body 621 00:38:36,116 --> 00:38:38,636 Speaker 1: lay on the ground, one of the soldiers poked a 622 00:38:38,676 --> 00:38:42,796 Speaker 1: bystander with a baton and said move on, you Irish bastard. 623 00:38:43,196 --> 00:38:46,076 Speaker 1: There are not enough of you dead. A man named 624 00:38:46,076 --> 00:38:48,436 Speaker 1: Thomas Burns was shot by a soldier on the Falls 625 00:38:48,516 --> 00:38:51,156 Speaker 1: Road at eight p m. As he stood with a 626 00:38:51,196 --> 00:38:53,596 Speaker 1: friend who was boarding up the windows of his store. 627 00:38:54,436 --> 00:38:56,796 Speaker 1: When his sister came to pick up his body, she 628 00:38:56,996 --> 00:38:59,436 Speaker 1: was told he had no business being on the street 629 00:38:59,556 --> 00:39:03,596 Speaker 1: at that time. At eleven p m, an elderly man 630 00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:07,436 Speaker 1: named Patrick Ellman, thinking the worst was over, went out 631 00:39:07,476 --> 00:39:10,316 Speaker 1: in his bedroom slippers and shirts leaves for a pre 632 00:39:10,476 --> 00:39:14,796 Speaker 1: bedtime stroll. He died in a burst of army gunfire. 633 00:39:15,836 --> 00:39:18,436 Speaker 1: One of the neighborhood accounts of the curfew says of 634 00:39:18,556 --> 00:39:23,556 Speaker 1: Ellmann's death that very night British troops actually entered and 635 00:39:23,676 --> 00:39:28,676 Speaker 1: courted themselves in the shopman's home, the distraught sister having 636 00:39:28,716 --> 00:39:31,436 Speaker 1: been moved to the other brothers up the street. This 637 00:39:31,596 --> 00:39:35,356 Speaker 1: tasteless intrusion into the abandoned home was discovered the next 638 00:39:35,436 --> 00:39:39,116 Speaker 1: afternoon during the interval in the curfew, when the brother 639 00:39:39,436 --> 00:39:41,676 Speaker 1: with his daughter and son in law went down to 640 00:39:41,716 --> 00:39:45,556 Speaker 1: the house and found the door broken down, a window broken, 641 00:39:45,996 --> 00:39:49,276 Speaker 1: kit lying on the floor, shaving tackle on the settee 642 00:39:49,556 --> 00:39:53,716 Speaker 1: and used cups in a scullery. Neighbors informed them that 643 00:39:53,796 --> 00:39:56,956 Speaker 1: the soldiers had dost down in the upstairs rooms as well, 644 00:39:58,396 --> 00:40:03,036 Speaker 1: a door broken down, a window broken, dirty dishes left 645 00:40:03,076 --> 00:40:06,756 Speaker 1: in the sink. Ladies and Wolf believed that all the 646 00:40:06,836 --> 00:40:11,676 Speaker 1: counts are rules and rational princes, but what actually matters 647 00:40:11,836 --> 00:40:14,236 Speaker 1: are the hundreds of small things at the powerful do 648 00:40:15,076 --> 00:40:19,356 Speaker 1: or don't do to establish their legitimacy, like sleeping in 649 00:40:19,396 --> 00:40:22,116 Speaker 1: the bed of an innocent man you'd just shot accidentally 650 00:40:22,556 --> 00:40:27,196 Speaker 1: and scattering your belongings around his house. By Sunday morning, 651 00:40:27,476 --> 00:40:31,876 Speaker 1: the situation inside the Lower Falls was growing desperate. The 652 00:40:31,916 --> 00:40:34,676 Speaker 1: Lower Falls was not a wealthy neighborhood. Many of the 653 00:40:34,716 --> 00:40:38,476 Speaker 1: adults were unemployed, or if they were not, relied on piecework. 654 00:40:39,196 --> 00:40:42,716 Speaker 1: The streets were crowded, and the homes were narrow, cheaply 655 00:40:42,756 --> 00:40:46,716 Speaker 1: built nineteenth century terraced red brick row houses with one 656 00:40:46,836 --> 00:40:51,156 Speaker 1: room to a floor and bathrooms in the backyard. Very 657 00:40:51,156 --> 00:40:54,636 Speaker 1: few houses had a refrigerator. They were dark and damp. 658 00:40:55,316 --> 00:40:59,116 Speaker 1: People bought bread daily because it grew moldy otherwise, but 659 00:40:59,196 --> 00:41:02,396 Speaker 1: the curfew was now thirty six hours old and there 660 00:41:02,476 --> 00:41:06,316 Speaker 1: was no bread left. The Catholic neighborhoods of West Belfast 661 00:41:06,556 --> 00:41:09,876 Speaker 1: are packed so tightly together and linked by so many 662 00:41:09,916 --> 00:41:13,276 Speaker 1: ties of marriage and blood, that words spread quickly from 663 00:41:13,316 --> 00:41:16,076 Speaker 1: one to the next about the plight of the lower falls. 664 00:41:16,916 --> 00:41:20,996 Speaker 1: Harriet Carson walked through Bala Murphy, banging together the lids 665 00:41:21,036 --> 00:41:24,956 Speaker 1: of pots. Next came a woman named Mary Drum. She 666 00:41:24,996 --> 00:41:28,876 Speaker 1: had a bullhorn. She began walking through the streets shouting 667 00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:31,996 Speaker 1: out to the women, come out, fill your prams with 668 00:41:32,116 --> 00:41:36,116 Speaker 1: bread and milk. The children haven't gotten any food. The 669 00:41:36,156 --> 00:41:38,676 Speaker 1: women started to gather in groups of two and four, 670 00:41:38,716 --> 00:41:41,916 Speaker 1: and ten and twenty, until they numbered in the thousands. 671 00:41:42,836 --> 00:41:45,476 Speaker 1: Some people still had their rollers in their hair and 672 00:41:45,556 --> 00:41:49,596 Speaker 1: their scarves over their head. Lalla remembers. We linked arms 673 00:41:49,636 --> 00:41:53,876 Speaker 1: and sang we shall overcome, We shall overcome. Some day 674 00:41:54,996 --> 00:41:56,756 Speaker 1: we got down to the bottom of the hill, she 675 00:41:56,836 --> 00:42:01,036 Speaker 1: went on. The atmosphere was electric. The Brits were standing 676 00:42:01,036 --> 00:42:04,956 Speaker 1: with their helmets and their guns already their batons were out. 677 00:42:05,196 --> 00:42:08,556 Speaker 1: We turned and went down the Grosvenor Road, singing and shouting. 678 00:42:09,236 --> 00:42:12,156 Speaker 1: I think the Brits were in awe. They couldn't believe 679 00:42:12,156 --> 00:42:14,436 Speaker 1: that these women with prams were coming down to take 680 00:42:14,476 --> 00:42:17,796 Speaker 1: them on. I remember seeing one brit standing there scratching 681 00:42:17,876 --> 00:42:20,556 Speaker 1: his head, going, what do we do with all these women? 682 00:42:21,156 --> 00:42:24,156 Speaker 1: Do we go into a riot situation here? Then we 683 00:42:24,236 --> 00:42:27,316 Speaker 1: turned onto Slate Street where the school was my school, 684 00:42:28,076 --> 00:42:30,916 Speaker 1: and the Brits were there. They come flying out of 685 00:42:30,956 --> 00:42:33,676 Speaker 1: the school and there was hand to hand fighting. We 686 00:42:33,796 --> 00:42:36,396 Speaker 1: got the hair pulled out of us. The Brits just 687 00:42:36,436 --> 00:42:39,236 Speaker 1: grabbed us, threw us up against the walls. Oh aye, 688 00:42:39,236 --> 00:42:41,876 Speaker 1: they beat us and if you fell you had to 689 00:42:41,876 --> 00:42:44,156 Speaker 1: get up very quickly because you didn't want to get trampled. 690 00:42:44,876 --> 00:42:48,316 Speaker 1: They came out with brutality. I remember standing up on 691 00:42:48,396 --> 00:42:49,956 Speaker 1: top of a car and having a look at what 692 00:42:50,036 --> 00:42:52,316 Speaker 1: was going on in the front. Then I saw a 693 00:42:52,356 --> 00:42:55,116 Speaker 1: man with shaving cream on his face and putting his 694 00:42:55,196 --> 00:42:58,596 Speaker 1: braces on, and all of a sudden, the soldiers stopped 695 00:42:58,636 --> 00:43:02,316 Speaker 1: beating us. The man putting his braces on was the 696 00:43:02,396 --> 00:43:06,396 Speaker 1: commanding officer of the Slate Street checkpoint. He might have 697 00:43:06,436 --> 00:43:08,716 Speaker 1: been the only voice of sanity on the British side 698 00:43:08,716 --> 00:43:12,476 Speaker 1: that day, the only one who understood the full dimensions 699 00:43:12,516 --> 00:43:16,996 Speaker 1: of the catastrophe unfolding. A heavily armed group of soldiers 700 00:43:17,356 --> 00:43:21,076 Speaker 1: was beating up a group of pram pushing women coming 701 00:43:21,116 --> 00:43:24,756 Speaker 1: to feed the children of the lower falls. He told 702 00:43:24,796 --> 00:43:28,476 Speaker 1: his men to stop. You have to understand the march 703 00:43:28,596 --> 00:43:30,836 Speaker 1: was still coming down the road, and the people the 704 00:43:30,876 --> 00:43:33,116 Speaker 1: back hadn't a clue what was going on at the front. 705 00:43:33,516 --> 00:43:37,836 Speaker 1: Laura went on. They kept coming, women were crying. People 706 00:43:37,876 --> 00:43:40,996 Speaker 1: started coming out of their houses, pulling people in because 707 00:43:41,036 --> 00:43:43,956 Speaker 1: there were so many injured. Once all the people started 708 00:43:43,956 --> 00:43:47,556 Speaker 1: coming out of their houses, the Brits lost control. Everyone 709 00:43:47,636 --> 00:43:50,436 Speaker 1: came out on the streets, hundreds and hundreds of people. 710 00:43:50,956 --> 00:43:54,116 Speaker 1: It was like a domino effect. One street that'd come out. 711 00:43:54,196 --> 00:43:57,076 Speaker 1: Next thing you know, doors are opening on another street, 712 00:43:57,276 --> 00:44:00,676 Speaker 1: another street, and another street. The Brits gave up. They 713 00:44:00,716 --> 00:44:03,836 Speaker 1: had their hands up. The women forced, and we forced, 714 00:44:03,876 --> 00:44:06,116 Speaker 1: and we forced until we got in, and we got 715 00:44:06,116 --> 00:44:09,876 Speaker 1: in and we broke the curfew. I've often thought about it. God, 716 00:44:09,916 --> 00:44:12,916 Speaker 1: it was like everybody was jubilant. It was like we 717 00:44:13,156 --> 00:44:17,236 Speaker 1: did it. I remember coming home and suddenly felt very 718 00:44:17,276 --> 00:44:20,476 Speaker 1: shaky and upset and nervous about the whole episode. Do 719 00:44:20,516 --> 00:44:23,996 Speaker 1: you know. I remember speaking to my father about it afterward. 720 00:44:24,556 --> 00:44:29,316 Speaker 1: I said, Daddy, your words came true. They turned on us, 721 00:44:29,676 --> 00:44:33,716 Speaker 1: and he said, true British army. That's what they do. 722 00:44:34,436 --> 00:44:38,076 Speaker 1: He was right. They turned on us, and that was 723 00:44:38,116 --> 00:44:38,676 Speaker 1: the start of it.