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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three ten of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Before we get into

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Speaker 1: the conversation, please note that this episode does include spoilers

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Speaker 1: for Queen Charlotte, a Bridgeton story. If you haven't had

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to watch, please put this episode on pause

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Speaker 1: and return once you've had time to enjoy the series.

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Speaker 1: We first meet Queen Charlotte in season one of Shonda

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Speaker 1: Rhime's hit show Bridgeton as a commanding and dignified queen

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Speaker 1: consort on a ruthless pursuit to name the social season's Diamond.

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Speaker 1: But the prequel spinoff shows a different side to the

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Speaker 1: Queen's rise to prominence and power. We see a young

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Speaker 1: Charlotte betrothed against her will, her budding relationships with King

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Speaker 1: George and Lady Danberry, and navigating the ins and outs

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Speaker 1: of her newfound queendom. To discuss Queen Charlotte a Bridgeton

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Speaker 1: story in depth this week, I'm joined once again by

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Speaker 1: my partner in pop culture, sex and relationship therapist, doctor

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Speaker 1: Donna Oriowo. We explore the complexities of mental health, sisterhood,

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Speaker 1: and race relations present in the series, comment on storylines

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Speaker 1: we were surprised and delighted by, and make predictions for

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Speaker 1: the future of the Bridgeton franchise. If something resonates with

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Speaker 1: you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on

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Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TBG in session or join

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Speaker 1: us over in the sister Circle To talk more in

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Speaker 1: depth about the episode, you can join us at community

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Speaker 1: dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. So,

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Speaker 1: doctor Oriowo, I'm so excited you are able to join

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Speaker 1: me yet again for another one of our pop culture

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Speaker 1: explorations on another new favorite shared show, Queen Charlotte, which

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Speaker 1: is the spin off from Bridgeton, Like I feel like

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Speaker 1: I remember at point they announced that this spin off

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Speaker 1: was coming, but then it kind of snuck up on me,

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Speaker 1: and you were in my text messages like girl, have

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Speaker 1: you seen Queen Charlotte? And I didn't even know that

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Speaker 1: it was out yet. But of course then spent the

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Speaker 1: rest of the weekend binging and very very satisfied and

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Speaker 1: excited that I did. So there were so many different

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Speaker 1: things to talk about, I think as a part of

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Speaker 1: Queen Charlotte. So first of all, what were your overall

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Speaker 1: impressions of Queen Charlotte.

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Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, Like, I really loved it, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's in the rewatch that I also felt a

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Speaker 2: tremendous sense of sadness like her life for me, at

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Speaker 2: least as it was displayed on the show. I know

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Speaker 2: it's fiction, so I don't nobody got to tell me.

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Speaker 2: It was just really sad, just really sad. The themes

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Speaker 2: that sort of came up for me were around power

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Speaker 2: and control. Of course, the mental health piece, the sexuality

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Speaker 2: piece also was coming up. There's a tremendous feeling of

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Speaker 2: sadness for not just her her, but also for Lady Danberry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: See, that's the part I think that really spoke to

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Speaker 1: me because I feel like there are so few shows

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Speaker 1: where we really intimately see like the interior lives of women,

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Speaker 1: especially older women.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: So there's of course this whole flashback piece of when

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Speaker 1: they were younger versus when they are now older, which

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Speaker 1: is where we see them in the current day Bridgerton

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Speaker 1: kind of series. But I just feel like they talked

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Speaker 1: about so many issues that we just don't ever really

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Speaker 1: hear talked about in pop culture related to older women, right,

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Speaker 1: related to like desire and they'll having very healthy sex

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Speaker 1: drives even in later life.

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Speaker 5: And the.

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Speaker 3: Garden. The Garden was in bloom, So I really loved that.

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Speaker 1: I just think that they did a phenomenal job really

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Speaker 1: exploring some of those areas that we just don't hear

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot. So you said the theme that

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Speaker 1: kind of came up for you most was sadness related

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Speaker 1: to kind of how Charlotte's life unfolded. Tell me why

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Speaker 1: sadness felt predominant for you.

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Speaker 2: Sadness was predominant because from the very beginning, her choice

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Speaker 2: was stripped away. We see her anger, you know, she

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Speaker 2: pushes the statue off the stand because she realizes that

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Speaker 2: she's just been like, oh, so you're just gonna you're

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Speaker 2: just gonna put me over there, You're not even gonna

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Speaker 2: talk to me about it. But then a tremendous amount

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Speaker 2: of loneliness ensued, right right when she felt like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe I will be with this guy instead of going

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Speaker 2: over the garden wall. Look, if you haven't watched it,

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Speaker 2: I'm all spoiled. So he might want to listen to

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Speaker 2: this later. But the piece around, just like she thinks

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Speaker 2: that she's found this connection and then this person withdraws

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Speaker 2: from her, and how sad. Everything sort of just was

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Speaker 2: after that, with moments of happiness with him right like

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Speaker 2: she's learning him but also learning what it takes to

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Speaker 2: actually be with him. And then that piece that she

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Speaker 2: talked about, like having to set oneself apart so she

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Speaker 2: can't go to where she wants to go, She can't

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Speaker 2: do the thing that she wants to do, and doing

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Speaker 2: those things would also require her to mostly do them

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Speaker 2: by herself, because she has to be regal and queenly

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Speaker 2: and cannot be seen to just be hanging out with

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Speaker 2: everybody else, less the monarchy, feel less mono.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: So it was interesting in the watching because you're kind

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Speaker 1: of trying to balance like both of these timelines, right like.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are some contemporary pieces of it, even

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Speaker 1: set in whatever year this was, But I did think

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Speaker 1: it was interesting because we know most arranged marriages like this,

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Speaker 1: right Like, it seemed like there was not a lot

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Speaker 1: of time for people to get to know one another

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Speaker 1: before they actually became married. And so they had this

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Speaker 1: cute little moment at the wall where she keeps asking,

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Speaker 1: tell me about the king, tell me about the king,

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Speaker 1: and people are just like, oh, he's a glorious king

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Speaker 1: and da dada, and so she's like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, this must be awful.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting out of here, right, And so she tries

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Speaker 1: to scale this wall in this like huge dress, and

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Speaker 1: he is out there and finds her, and she finds

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Speaker 1: out that that's the king, and so of course it

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Speaker 1: seems like they have this pretty powerful connection, and she

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Speaker 1: decides at that moment that she's not going to run away.

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Speaker 1: She's going to instead before with marrying him, thinking that

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Speaker 1: you know, this little moment of connection they've had will

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Speaker 1: be enough, I think, to grow into something deeper and stronger,

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Speaker 1: and then of course we see that night then he

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Speaker 1: completely changes.

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Speaker 3: Right and withdraws.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting the way they set it

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Speaker 1: up because I feel like we saw at least two

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Speaker 1: maybe three episodes really from her vantage point, right, So

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Speaker 1: we're kind of experiencing the show and going through the

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Speaker 1: wedding in their first couple of years of marriage really

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Speaker 1: from her vantage point, and only in like I think,

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Speaker 1: episode three do we see like what's really been going on.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like some of those seeds have been planned.

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Speaker 1: When she asked, why are they coming all the way

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Speaker 1: here to find me as a queen?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: So so what is it about? Yeah, they know nothing

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Speaker 1: about me, Like why am I the one who's being

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Speaker 1: asked to marry the king? So?

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Speaker 3: What were your thoughts there?

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Speaker 1: Once we kind of finally found the plot twist, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, around the secret that the king's mom had

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Speaker 1: been hiding.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it sort of brought up ideas around consent just

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Speaker 2: in general, and I realized that, you know, like back then,

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Speaker 2: obviously historically women were not even considered people.

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Speaker 5: They were considered property.

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Speaker 2: But because Shondaland is adding in this additional storyline around

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Speaker 2: race relations. At that time, all of it is hitting

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Speaker 2: a lot differently because she's looking very much like property.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: Her brother basically sold her off to be with this family,

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Speaker 2: and it's like he used his power to make her marry,

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Speaker 2: but they used their power to make him want to

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Speaker 2: make her marry. Right, It's not really consent because of

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Speaker 2: the way power is at play. Right, So you got

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Speaker 2: the might of the British Kingdom, this big monarchy, going

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Speaker 2: to this smaller area in Germany and saying.

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Speaker 5: Like, all right, we looking for all bride. What's up?

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Speaker 2: Right, And that they chose her purposely because they felt

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Speaker 2: that she would be grateful and thus wouldn't look into things,

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Speaker 2: except that she showed us in episode one that she

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Speaker 2: is also.

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Speaker 5: A critical thinker.

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Speaker 2: Her critical thinking questions were like, well, are you even

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Speaker 2: considering why they would come all the way here to

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Speaker 2: find a bride. It's not to say that her brother

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Speaker 2: wasn't critically thinking, because he was, because he was just like, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about how we can solidify ourselves and keep

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Speaker 2: some of these wolves at bay, right, the ones that

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Speaker 2: are surrounding us already, Because we are what we are.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, while they're helping us to

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Speaker 2: keep this at bay, we also get to establish this

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Speaker 2: stronger alliance and we get to have some of the

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Speaker 2: benefits of being part of this thing. And on top

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Speaker 2: of that, I can't disagree. I can't say no because

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Speaker 2: this is the might of the British Empire.

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Speaker 5: We don't want none, we don't have what we need.

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Speaker 2: To fight that, right. So it's like that's his critical thinking.

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Speaker 2: Her critical thinking is you're not thinking about why they

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Speaker 2: came all the way over here? What secrets are they

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Speaker 2: keeping that they will come all the way over here

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Speaker 2: when they got plenty of those people over there.

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Speaker 5: And you know they don't like black people like that,

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Speaker 5: Like what's up with you?

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Speaker 2: So it's the battle of the critical thinking in that way,

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Speaker 2: and just like how are we going to establish what

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Speaker 2: are we doing versus what do we have to do?

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Speaker 2: But overall just this lack of consent, right, like no

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Speaker 2: one can consent, and the secrets that are being kept,

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Speaker 2: they're shielded in power, Like I'm not going to tell

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Speaker 2: you the fool full because I don't have to, and

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Speaker 2: because I really need this thing to go through and

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Speaker 2: I need you to produce babies, right, Like you have

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Speaker 2: good hips, you make good babies. And just like this constant,

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Speaker 2: the constant use of power to shield secrets and to

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Speaker 2: make sure that nobody ever has any level of informed

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Speaker 2: consent about what it is that they're doing.

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Speaker 5: But you're getting consent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know it's interesting because I feel like

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Speaker 1: the power even for the king, right, Like it feels

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Speaker 1: like in some ways he was trapped by this idea

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Speaker 1: of like obligation and you know, expectation of like what

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Speaker 1: this title means and feels like in moments, wanting to

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Speaker 1: share the full story about everything going on with his

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Speaker 1: health is mental health, but also not really wanting to

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Speaker 1: be king, right, but being born into this title and

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Speaker 1: like understanding that this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he wants to just be a former, but.

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Speaker 1: Being born into this title, and like this is the expectation,

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Speaker 1: Like there is not an option to not kind of

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Speaker 1: fulfill this duty. So we know that like the secret

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Speaker 1: that they're keeping is around his mental health. That he

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Speaker 1: clearly has the mental health concerns. It seems like there

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Speaker 1: are some breaks in reality, but it also seemed like

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Speaker 1: some anxiety stuff. So we'll get it to that in

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Speaker 1: a second. Like, Okay, what do we think was actually

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Speaker 1: going on? But they also refer to this like great experiment,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know that I ever got an understanding

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Speaker 1: of what was happening. So was it that they were

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Speaker 1: trying to find a bride for him and you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting somebody who would not ask a lot of questions,

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Speaker 1: like you said, would be grateful to just kind of

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Speaker 1: be the new queen, And so they couched it as this, Oh,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to bring the racist together, and that's why

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Speaker 1: he's marrying somebody who is not a white person, Like,

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Speaker 1: what did.

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Speaker 3: You make of the great experiment?

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Speaker 2: I think it was because she was too brown, which

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Speaker 2: is funny because she's also very light mm like colorism

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Speaker 2: speaking right, like relative to white people and relative to

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Speaker 2: those white people. They were like, oh, she's very brown,

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Speaker 2: and it was just like emphasized right like, ooh, she's

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Speaker 2: very brown, and that's a problem, especially a problem for Parliament.

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Speaker 5: So they wanted to make it look like it was

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Speaker 5: on purpose that she was brown.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, no, we're gonna actually be trying to

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Speaker 2: bring together the racist.

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Speaker 1: So that was a decision they made kind of on

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Speaker 1: the spot once they saw her and realized, got it, okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: This decision that like, particularly the dowager princess, that part

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Speaker 2: was the first show of how much she sort of

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Speaker 2: is ruling in my eyes right, like she's ruling in

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Speaker 2: the name of her son by saying what she wants,

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Speaker 2: but saying that her son wants it, and no one

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Speaker 2: is going to question that because she's the mom being

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Speaker 2: able to say, like, well, the King wants her to

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Speaker 2: make this look like it's on purpose, so we are

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Speaker 2: going to extend the invitation to all these brown people,

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Speaker 2: to all these black folks. Six hours before the wedding,

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Speaker 2: She's just like, who don't want to come to a

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Speaker 2: royal wedding?

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Speaker 5: Baby?

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Speaker 2: They're not about to say no? I mean, and for real,

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Speaker 2: they didn't they came. I think it would have been

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Speaker 2: it would have certainly said something if none of them came, like, dang,

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Speaker 2: y'all look crazy out here. But of course these people

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Speaker 2: are gonna come, right, they came, and then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden it's ah, lady and Lord, like what.

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Speaker 5: We had no titles? Like what you're talking about?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: And then I think at the wedding is when we

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Speaker 1: see this first which I think is like, probably my

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Speaker 1: favorite relationship on this show between Lady dan Berry and

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Speaker 1: the Queen and Queen Charlotte, because we see the sisterhood.

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Speaker 3: Was all all in effect. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: But we see that Lady dan Berry spots the Queen

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Speaker 1: upstairs and she's like, ah, this is why we're here,

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Speaker 1: right so now, so now the y'all have brought in

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Speaker 1: all these black folks to try to make this scene

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Speaker 1: as if we're all one big, happy family, where we

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Speaker 1: know that that is not the case. I love that

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Speaker 1: Lady dan Barry becomes a part of her court and

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Speaker 1: really becomes like her, only in some ways ally in

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Speaker 1: all of this, like, oh my gosh, what have I

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Speaker 1: gotten myself into?

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Speaker 3: So we see even.

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Speaker 1: The night of the wedding, Yeah, she goes to her

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Speaker 1: and says, you know, be careful. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: call for me, I will come right. So she's already

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Speaker 1: letting her know, like girl, I got you, And of

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Speaker 1: course the Queen doesn't know anything right. But later on

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Speaker 1: when she finds herself alone and is like, okay, I

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Speaker 1: need somebody, we see that she talks to Brimley and says,

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Speaker 1: if I wanted to be discreet, what I call Lady

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Speaker 1: dan Barry, and that is really the beginning of their

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Speaker 1: budding friendship.

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Speaker 2: And friendship and the loosest term, right because where power

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Speaker 2: is present, especially the type of power where you can't

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Speaker 2: be really open and honest, is it really friendship, right, right,

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Speaker 2: Like when one person is wielding a considerable more amount

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Speaker 2: of power than somebody else. Queen Charlotte was able to

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Speaker 2: sort of help establish Lady Danberry right, like to say,

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Speaker 2: like your line of succession that will continue, right, that

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Speaker 2: you can keep the house.

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Speaker 5: That you can do these things.

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Speaker 2: She was able to help her with those things out

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Speaker 2: of yes, there's a friendship or camaraderie. And at the

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Speaker 2: same time, I'm further solidifying you as my subject, and

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Speaker 2: I still have to be held apart even from you.

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Speaker 1: Right, because we saw most of their interactions were like

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Speaker 1: at the castle. It's not like they're downtown drinking tea together, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they're still in the castle, mostly behind closed doors.

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Speaker 1: And I think you're right, like I do think it

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Speaker 1: very much was a sisterhood kind of thing for Lady

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Speaker 1: Danberry to say, like, you know, if you call for me,

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Speaker 1: I'll come. But we also see Lady Danberry playing both

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Speaker 1: sides against one another, right because once the dowager Princess

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Speaker 1: finds out that Lady Danberry has been to the castle,

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Speaker 1: then she is saying like, okay, well, you're kind of

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Speaker 1: my ears on the ground kind of things telling me

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Speaker 1: what I need to know about what's happening between the

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Speaker 1: king and the Queen.

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Speaker 2: Also power, because it's like she didn't have a choice

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Speaker 2: whether it's not meeting with the dowagi or princess of

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Speaker 2: all people. And at the same time, just like the

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Speaker 2: way that she plays it, right like, well, I need

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Speaker 2: things and if I am going to be in a

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Speaker 2: position to be used like that was established with the

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Speaker 2: invitations that went out to come to the royal wedding,

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Speaker 2: they were all already being used in that moment. Well,

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Speaker 2: how can I get as much in trade for being

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Speaker 2: used in this way as possible? How can I secure

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Speaker 2: what I need from my family? How can I make

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Speaker 2: sure that my husband can stop feeling excluded despite the

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Speaker 2: fact that he is now Lord dan Barry, right, like

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Speaker 2: he's the Lord and you still treating him the way

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Speaker 2: that you've been treating him before. And I got to

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Speaker 2: do what I got to do for me because every

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Speaker 2: time this man feel rejected, he will come homp on

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Speaker 2: me and I'll want hump with him. So just like

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Speaker 2: even just establishing that piece, like she's trying to play

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Speaker 2: all these very different things she needs to do for herself,

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Speaker 2: which I actually find to be quite refreshing. I feel

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Speaker 2: like oftentimes when number one women in a lot of

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Speaker 2: TV shows are very one note, very very two dimensional,

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Speaker 2: they're not full thought out people. So these are full

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Speaker 2: thought out people, which I can really appreciate. But there's

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Speaker 2: also that piece around, like a good woman, a real

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00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 2: woman is a person who does for others but doesn't

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Speaker 2: think of themselves. And I like that she wasn't doing

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Speaker 2: all this stuff out of a sense of selflessness. Only right,

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Speaker 2: it's not only about how she can help her friend

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Speaker 2: or a person that she's establishing a friendship with. It's

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Speaker 2: also about how she can help herself. I feel like

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Speaker 2: it was a beautiful example of you got to fill

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Speaker 2: up your cup before you're even able to really help

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Speaker 2: and establish anything with others. But we also saw that

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Speaker 2: the second that they said that no, we friends' friends,

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Speaker 2: how things sort of teetered in this other direction because

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Speaker 2: it's like, well, damn, I can't give the dowager Princess anything,

359
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Speaker 2: because I told this woman now that I'm her friend

360
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Speaker 2: and that we've established this as a friendship, and I

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Speaker 2: want to make sure I'm keeping my side of this

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Speaker 2: and that means holding her confidence more from my conversation

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Speaker 2: after the break, So let us go back to the

364
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 2: whole conversation and the major plot I think of the

365
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,159
Speaker 2: show related to King George's mental health. So you know,

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00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 2: we see again in episode three, I believe, is where

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00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 2: we realize from his advantage point, like some anxiety or

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00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 2: whatever was happening even on his wedding day and he

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Speaker 2: gets slapped to try to kind of come back to

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00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 2: his senses quote unquote, So we really see like them

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00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,119
Speaker 2: establishing this theme of something's going on with his mental

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Speaker 2: health that they don't want people to know. So what

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Speaker 2: do you feel like was actually going on, at least

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Speaker 2: in the ways that it was portrayed in this show.

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Speaker 2: It looked to me that he had extreme anxiety, which

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Speaker 2: would make sense, and it would also like no teno

377
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 2: shade olivi inade because I know that parents never want

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Speaker 2: to hear this, but.

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Speaker 5: It seemed like his mama gave it to one.

380
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Speaker 2: It seemed why she helped to establish this thing, that

381
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 2: little monologue that he gave, Well, if my maps are correct,

382
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Speaker 2: then that's the downfall of the monarchy. If I don't

383
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: need my peace, downfall of the monarchy, Like everything that

384
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 2: he does, everywhere that he behaves, would lead to the

385
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 2: ruin and the downfall of the monarchy. And that's an

386
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: incredible amount of pressure to put on anybody, let alone

387
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: to establish with a child, right that if he is

388
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Speaker 2: not perfect, that he is not worthy of the station

389
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Speaker 2: that he holds, and that he will cause the ruin

390
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 2: of everything for everyone because.

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Speaker 5: Of his lack of perfection.

392
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Speaker 2: That's a lot of pressure to put on one person,

393
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Speaker 2: just period, and certainly a lot of pressure to put

394
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Speaker 2: on a child. For me, what I feel like I

395
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 2: saw was every single time he had an episode, it

396
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Speaker 2: was preceded by a highly stressful event, like every single time.

397
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Speaker 2: I mean, like the first one that we saw that

398
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 2: we didn't know that we were seeing was when he

399
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: went out to the garden to go retrieve Charlotte, and

400
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 2: it's like, well, my wife is running away, and so

401
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 2: am I stressful.

402
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 5: He got the back hand for.

403
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: That after the conversation with his mom when she came

404
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 1: to the council to make sure that they had participated

405
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: in the marital act. Yeah, and that was when we

406
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: first saw him call for the doctor, right. And so

407
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: again that was the first one I think where we

408
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 1: knew something was going on, Like you mentioned the situation

409
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Speaker 1: in the garden. You know, we didn't know because we

410
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 1: hadn't seen his vantage point at that point.

411
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 2: Word and mom showing up at the house, right, and

412
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: how he was holding it together until she left, right,

413
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 2: and then he just sort of, yeah, call the doctor.

414
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 2: Like the way he was trying to hold himself so

415
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: rigidly and was able to release, and in that release

416
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 2: the built up and held back I would say, chemical

417
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 2: reactions that are going on in the body. Then he's

418
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: trying to hold onto with two fists. He was able

419
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: to sort of let it ride itself out. I think

420
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Speaker 2: the next one that we saw after he fired the doctor,

421
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,719
Speaker 2: he's like, nah, I'm good, I'm with y'a altte now

422
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 2: I feel fine. But then it was oh, she's pregnant.

423
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: And that was the one that woke him up in

424
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 2: the middle of the night where she actually got to

425
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 2: see like, oh, y'all been keeping.

426
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Speaker 5: Things from me.

427
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 2: This is what's wrong with this man, And y'all stole

428
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: my choice. I mean not that she, I mean she

429
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: didn't really technically have a choice, but stole it's still

430
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 2: a stolen choice.

431
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Speaker 1: Man.

432
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Speaker 3: She didn't have all the story.

433
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it was when he was going to

434
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 2: address Parliament and then again when they invited Parliament to

435
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: the house that these were some of the major things.

436
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 2: And then I know that it's I think it's established

437
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 2: maybe in Bridgerton the main series, but he never recovered

438
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: after one of his children died. He was just off

439
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: and down in that spiral from that. So it's like

440
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: we can see the things that sort of put him

441
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 2: in this position. And while his mom said I want

442
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 2: his happiness, no she didn't. The only person who showed

443
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 2: that they wanted his happiness was Charlotte.

444
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: Right, Which is interesting, right because she has now been

445
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: brought into this you know, like you said, didn't have

446
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: much of a choice regardless, but even further taking away

447
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: any kind of perceived choice that she had because she

448
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: was led into this marriage without getting the full story,

449
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: which is just sad.

450
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 2: Everybody had their hand in making her choices, and she

451
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: had very little advantage in being able to make any

452
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: for herself. She wasn't fully informed to be able to

453
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: make a choice, Like no one would even tell her

454
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 2: about this man that she was going to marry or

455
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: that she was supposed to marry.

456
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 5: So she chose, well, I'm about to go over the wall.

457
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 2: But then she meets him and it's like, oh, it's

458
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: a cute meat, right, cute me cute, But he doesn't say, hey,

459
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 2: I have mental health problems right, or I might be

460
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 2: slipping into madness. So whatever language you would have used

461
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 2: to just sort of describe it, he didn't say it.

462
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: So she is going off what she's seeing in that

463
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: moment and using that to make her choice. And then

464
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: it's like, y'all lied to me, y'all been keeping secrets

465
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: from me, and I'm supposed to just live with it.

466
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: I'm just supposed to be okay with it. I'm just

467
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: supposed to figure out how to manage with it and

468
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: sort of being put in a precarious situation, and the

469
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 2: whole theme is just be grateful, right. Her brother said

470
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 2: it to her, like you think your life is going

471
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: to be so hard as being a queen? Like get

472
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 2: over yourself, right, Like they are worth fates. And then

473
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: it's she's hearing be grateful again from his mom, be grateful,

474
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: and then he further takes her choice away. He doesn't

475
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: tell her why he's doing what he's doing. And it's

476
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: just like, and while it sounds noble, right, like I

477
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 2: want to keep her safe from me, So I'm going

478
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 2: to put her over there and I'm going to stay

479
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 2: in cue and we'll come together when we need to

480
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: come together. But other than that, I'm going to keep

481
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 2: myself separate. I'm just like, why are you taking her choices?

482
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 5: Right?

483
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: And people don't like to hitus, but to me, it

484
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: sounds very much like this idea of part and provision, Like, Oh,

485
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 2: a person's job is to protect and to provide, and

486
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 2: I'm just like that protection in that providing often renders

487
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: the other person without enough information to make a choice

488
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: for themselves about how they would like to be protected,

489
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: about how they would like to be provided for. Everybody

490
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: is taking away the choice, but everybody feels like they

491
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: are more qualified than she to be able to name

492
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 2: the way that she will be provided for and protected,

493
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: and not seeing what their provision and their protection is

494
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: actually doing to her because the person that saw it

495
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 2: most closely was Brimsley, and he was beside himself trying

496
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: to figure out what to do, which I would say

497
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 2: feels above his pay grade, but he was doing it nonetheless, right,

498
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: like you're the King's man, help help me, help me?

499
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: Like what are you doing? You got me live for you.

500
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: The least you can do is help me, man, right,

501
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: And like, yo, she don't want to be here?

502
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 5: What do I do?

503
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: And just not getting any help, just trying to manage

504
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: this and trying to maintain a certain level of secrecy

505
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: because all of it was just so sad because they're

506
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: watching her drown in her own depression and her own

507
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: loneliness and no one will save her.

508
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 5: She's strong enough.

509
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: Sounds very much like what we already tell black people.

510
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: You're strong enough, you got this, you can do this.

511
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: It's not as bad as it could be, right, Like,

512
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: isn't that what we are constantly taught to tell ourselves,

513
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: as well as what other people tell us, like what

514
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 2: you're complaining for, it could be worse. And I'm just like, wow,

515
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: the establishment of whether or not your life is good

516
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: for you, it's based on how bad other people's lives

517
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: are for them.

518
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: So I did think it brought up an interesting point

519
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: around like when might you have some of these discussions

520
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: in a relationship?

521
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 3: Right?

522
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: And I feel like we talk about this sometimes with

523
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, like STIs and like when do you just

524
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: close this to a partner? But if you are somebody

525
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: struggling with mental health concerns, like when would you tell

526
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: a partner or a potential partner about what's been happening

527
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: definitely before the wedding, then I feel like we can

528
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: agree on at.

529
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: Least a little bit before the wedding, right, like give

530
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: somebody before the proposal. Even I feel like that's a

531
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: really good question because I know that personally for me,

532
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: I've been dealing with my own mental health stuff right,

533
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: A lot of anxiety. I had this beautiful cycle from

534
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: anxiety to depression and back again. Mostly I live in

535
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: the space of anxiety. I don't really live in the

536
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: depression part, but the anxiety.

537
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 5: Whoo Ever, since a.

538
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: Panic attack on a plane, it's been out of control

539
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, you know what, I don't think

540
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: I knew that I had anxiety before my husband and

541
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: I got together. I thought that this is just how

542
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: people lived, like, oh, this is regular, And I think

543
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 2: that a lot of people think that their mental health stuff, Oh,

544
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: that's just regular, it's normal to feel anxious. Oh, I'm

545
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: just an anxious person, right, that's the sort of thing

546
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: that people say, I'm just an anxious person.

547
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 5: I'm like, nah, shawdy, you're not.

548
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: You're not.

549
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: The world around you helps to cultivate the anxiety that

550
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: you're consistently living with because of the way that it

551
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 2: treats black people and black women particularly, So I'm like, no,

552
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 2: you're not an anxious person. You will probably be quite

553
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: relaxed if you weren't here, if you weren't dealing with

554
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: these things in the way that we're dealing with these things,

555
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: you would probably find that you are not actually an

556
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: anxious person, but that you have been put into a

557
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: fraud situation that the only natural reaction is to be anxious.

558
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: I would say for me, thinking about it in terms

559
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: of like, well, when do you tell a partner, I

560
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: think that when you're going into a space where you're

561
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: establishing that you're not just y'are not just talking but

562
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: and you're not even just dating, but that you're moving

563
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: into what you think is going to be a relationship.

564
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: When you're establishing the best of what that is going

565
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: to be. When you're having those discussions, that is also

566
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: a time to say, like, hey, before we make this

567
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: decision about whether or not we're going to be together

568
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 2: and ultimately what our goal in being together is, you

569
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: should also know that I deal with a great amount

570
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: of anxiety, that I also deal with a great amount

571
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: of depression. This, for me, is the informed consent that

572
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: was missing throughout the series, right, because when a person

573
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: is uninformed, you've stolen their choices. You have no idea

574
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: if they're going to say yes or no. But certainly

575
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: if a person is informed beforehand, they can also make

576
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: sure that they have additional provisions to meet the need that.

577
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 5: You are going to have.

578
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: So for me, having this conversation with my husband, you know,

579
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: like after the fact, at this point, he's already made

580
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: the vow of through sickness and in health. Right, So,

581
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: and this is I guess the less than healthy part

582
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: the conversations even have been about. Now that we're in

583
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: this relationship and this has up here is how I

584
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: like to deal with my anxiety when my anxiety comes up.

585
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: This is what I like to do, what feels good,

586
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: right or saying for you to also do while maintaining

587
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: your mental health. Because my mental health is my responsibility,

588
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: I don't make it my partner's responsibility. And I think

589
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: that sometimes we selfishly try to believe that because we

590
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: are partner, that is their job and it's not. Your

591
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: mental health is your job. Just like your orgasms are

592
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 2: your responsibility, so is your mental health. So for me,

593
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: it has been establishing that I have to be doing

594
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: something for my mental health and that my husband, while

595
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: I would prefer for him to help care for me,

596
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: he doesn't have to. But he is a part of

597
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: the group of people that do. So the entire burden,

598
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: as it were, of my mental health is not placed

599
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: just on him. It is dispersed among many people that

600
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: I consider to be both friend and family alike. Right,

601
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: So I call my mom, but every now and then

602
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: to be like, hey, goodie, it's eleven in the nighttime.

603
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 5: My anxiety does spiked up?

604
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: You up? I usually said, I emoji's like you are,

605
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: but just knowing that I have to have a plan

606
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: that includes him, but doesn't require that he be the

607
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: only thing that is helping to keep my mental health together,

608
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: because I don't think that's fair either, And I think

609
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: in this really it's Charlotte M.

610
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because I think you know, when most people

611
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: worry about like disclosing something like this or sharing with

612
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: a partner, the concern is like, oh, they're gonna leave me, right,

613
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: like they are not going to know how to support

614
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: me or whatever, when really it's an invitation, like you said,

615
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: to kind of think about like, okay, what feels good

616
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: for you, like what feels okay to support me? And

617
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: like what does my care look like? In addition to

618
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: not making it one person's responsibility, right, like a whole

619
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: care team, a whole group of people who can support

620
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: you in your mental health, which I think again was

621
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: definitely missing from this conversation. But we did see like

622
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: Brimsley was the Queen's man, what was.

623
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: King George's person?

624
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 5: Reynolds Reynolds, what's that making up names now?

625
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: And I'm here, but you know, so his man. It

626
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: did very much feel like he was a part of

627
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: the care team for the king, right, like even into

628
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: misguided ways. Right. Of course, he was also very very

629
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: heavily involved in like keeping this from the Queen and

630
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: all of those things, but it did seem like he

631
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: ultimately did care for King George, so it did feel

632
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: like he had a little bit of an informal care

633
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: squad that just didn't include the Queen until it was really,

634
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: in some ways too late, because she found out like

635
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: while he was in the garden, and she's thinking like,

636
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like what is happening.

637
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: Here because he had like his doctor, he had his mom,

638
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: and he had his man. Right, so it's like these

639
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: three people, but they're also bound to be trying to

640
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: keep the secret of his mental health, which means that

641
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: he's not necessarily getting everything that he needs because they're

642
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: worried about trying to keep the secret. I think that

643
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: sometimes we have to choose what it is that we're doing,

644
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: because where our attention goes, our energy flows. And if

645
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: the attention is really on keeping the secret, then you're

646
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: not doing the best job you could be doing and

647
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: making sure that the person is getting the care that

648
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: they're needing because you're so busy trying to keep a secret.

649
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 5: So I'm just like they're trying to keep.

650
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: The secret and not realizing what other resources they may

651
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: have already had at their disposal as a result, Like

652
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: Charlotte finding out about it was probably the best thing

653
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: for this man's mental health, because she's just like, all right.

654
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 5: Cool, what can we do?

655
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: And Brimsley is like, all right, we're gonna increase the wall.

656
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: Here we go clear a path that he can go

657
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: out to the garden and speak to his venus.

658
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 5: Right, he can go out and he can do that.

659
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: And even the way that she gets under the bed

660
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: with him, establishing that like, hey, when it all becomes

661
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: too much, let's ground here. You can ground here with me.

662
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: And ultimately what it also and this is part of

663
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: the sadness that because everyone is so involved with the king,

664
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: the people that end up being involved with the king,

665
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: including her, she's not involved with her children. She is

666
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: a great queen, she's not a great mother, and that

667
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: is hard for her to reconcile.

668
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: Right, And we don't find that out until you know,

669
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: all of this is falling apart, and then the children

670
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: are like, we don't even feel like you don't really

671
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: know you. Yeah, yeah, you know us.

672
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 2: We don't know you. You are asking us to make babies,

673
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: but you don't even know that we have been trying.

674
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: You don't know what we have gone through because you

675
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: have been so preoccupied in this area that you don't

676
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: know us, you've not established anything with us. And it's

677
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: the dichotomy of like sorrows prayers, right, because that is

678
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: like the breakout line of his dang on things, sorrows prayers.

679
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: I wonder how many people missed that the first time

680
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 2: it was said was when she was young, well, not

681
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: the first time, but that you know, well in her life.

682
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: The first time it was said was when she was

683
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: young to Lady Danbury, and that it felt so warm

684
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: and so sincere sorrows and prayers, and that it was

685
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: a connection moment for the two of them, and it

686
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 2: was the thing that preceded them saying that, hey, we're

687
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: friends now and in a friendship, this is how we

688
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: will be, like establishing what a friendship will look like

689
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: for them. That what preceded it with sorrows and prayers. Meanwhile,

690
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: we heard the way that she said it.

691
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 4: To her son, right, sorrows, sorrows prayers, right, very prefunctorily,

692
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 4: and then frustrated, like sorrows prayers, we need babies.

693
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break And I think

694
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting, you know, the dichotomy of who we see

695
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: Queen Charlotte as in the Bridgington series, right, because we

696
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: don't know a lot about her private life at all,

697
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: Like we know that the king exists and he's kind

698
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: of kept away in this room and something's going on.

699
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: I don't remember hearing anything about kids in the Bridgington series,

700
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: and then we move over to Queen Charlotte and they're

701
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: fifteen of them, or at some point they were fifteen, right,

702
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh my godness, we don't hear anything

703
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: about all these kids in Bridgington. So you know, we

704
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: do see, of course, in the spin off, we see

705
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: a fuller sense of her life. But you know, the

706
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: thing that I think, and we talked about this in

707
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: texts before the podcast, we also saw, in connection to

708
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: his mental health, the very old school, barbaric ways that

709
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: mental health was treated during that time, right, And so

710
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: we're talking now with a twenty twenty three sensibility around

711
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: like a care squad and like all of this stuff.

712
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: But they were kind of doing some of this at

713
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: that time and didn't call it that. But what we

714
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: did see was them attempting to treat his mental health

715
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: with stuff like ice baths and leeches and all of

716
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: these things.

717
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: So so I do want to hear it.

718
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 5: I was like, I don't know what that part does.

719
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: Some of that stuff I had never heard of, But

720
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: I do want to hear your thoughts around just, you know,

721
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of like the ways that in some ways, I

722
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: think psychiatric care is in some ways still reminiscent of

723
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: some of this, right, but I definitely feel like we

724
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: have moved quite a ways from like using leeches and

725
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: ice baths to try to treat mental health. So what

726
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: were your thoughts around that?

727
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: That part for me was kind of scary to see

728
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: because they definitely thought that they were at the forefront

729
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: of mental health. And I'm just like, are we going

730
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 2: to look back and see ourselves and be like wow,

731
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: and someone's gonna be like that's barbaric And I'm just like, ooh.

732
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 3: Is it? I don't know that.

733
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 5: I mean, because right now we're at the forefront of all.

734
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: The things, right, Like people are talking about EMDR, we're

735
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 2: still using CBT, we have a little EFT that's emotional

736
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: freedom tapping as well as emotional emotional therapy, right so

737
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: it's like we've got all these other ways that we're

738
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: sort of helping people move through whatever they've experienced and

739
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: being able to establish a different level of mental health

740
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 2: for themselves and sort of coming up with this care piece,

741
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 2: and some of it for me still feels rather individualistic.

742
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: So when I think about the barbarianism of it, right,

743
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: when I try to step back, just like, well, we're

744
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: still in a way trying to tell people you're an

745
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: individual doing this thing, and be an individual doing this thing.

746
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: On the one end, I think that through what you

747
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: have done with Therapy for Black Girls and your upcoming book,

748
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: which I'm really excited about, I think that that piece

749
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: around the Sisterhood re establishes that community is important in

750
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: a way that the American individualistic ideals will not fit

751
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 2: with the real mental health and not even just mental health,

752
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: but whole person well being that we're looking for is

753
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: established actually in community and not in silos.

754
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: Right.

755
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: But their stuff is like they have a community, but

756
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: when you are the monarch, you don't have a community,

757
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: especially not a community of equals. Quite frankly, you have

758
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: yes men. And I feel like we see that same

759
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: issue now, right, Celebrities are often held apart, and in

760
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 2: being held apart, their mental health becomes fodder for others. Right,

761
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 2: you have us in the general population who don't know

762
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: these people, and so many of us are so loud

763
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: in the way that we comment on other people's lives

764
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: as though we are owed something from them. I'm thinking

765
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: specifically of how left the conversation went with Gabrielle Union

766
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: and what was like point zero two whatever percent of

767
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: a conversation where she mentioned.

768
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 5: Fifty to fifty, but it wasn't about.

769
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 2: Being fifty to fifty, right, how it went to you're

770
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: a pick me and your husband is trash because he

771
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 2: don't even want to care for you.

772
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 5: Right.

773
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: It gets me thinking about the mental health of Robin Williams.

774
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: I think about the mental health of like the things

775
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: that we've seen, like with Drake.

776
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 5: I'm late.

777
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: You don't have to tell me how late I am.

778
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: I know, but someone recently had me listen to his

779
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: song Marvin's Room, and I did a deep dive analysis

780
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: when I got on the phone with this person about

781
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: what I heard, what I didn't hear, and what it

782
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: all means. And I'm just like I'm thinking about celebrities

783
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 2: are in a sense held apart. They're held apart and above,

784
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: and particularly black celebrities right because now they become a

785
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: representation for all Black people and what they're allowed and

786
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 2: not allowed to do, the ways they're allowed and not

787
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: allowed to behave, the things they are allowed and not

788
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: allow out to say before we say that they're a sellout,

789
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: before we say that there's something wrong with them, before

790
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: we decide that we want to discard them, especially black women.

791
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: While other people are given a certain level of grace,

792
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: black women are not often yielded that same amount of grace.

793
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 5: Meg vs. Stallion was a.

794
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: Victim of violence, and people were talking trash about her

795
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: because they felt like they were losing out on this

796
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: other person who perpetraates violence against black women, right, or

797
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: even how we talked about Cosby and almost like we

798
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: were trying to establish that it should be okay for

799
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 2: him to do the same things that other people were doing,

800
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: or even r Kelly, that it should be okay for

801
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: him to do things, and we're gonna blame these people

802
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: instead of those people. And this piece around being held

803
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 2: apart and not having necessarily the same access. I think

804
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 2: they have financial access to mental health, but I don't

805
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: think they have the access of anonymity around mental health

806
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 2: the same way that everyday people are allowed to sort

807
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: of have it and I think that same thing with

808
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: King George, right, but there's a power dynamic. There's the money,

809
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: but there's also the fact that he is the monarch.

810
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: So even when he gave up power to this mental

811
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: health practitioner, loosely strongly for them, very secure, but loosely. Now,

812
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: Like I remember that scene where he was shaving his

813
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: face and King George Justice, he just holds his hand

814
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 2: and it's just like, I'm gonna finish this and you're fired, right,

815
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 2: because he still has the power to be able to

816
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: do that. But if he was in the asylum, the

817
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: one that they called Bedlam, would he have had the

818
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 2: power to be able to say.

819
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 5: I'm done and I'm gonna leave now.

820
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I had heard about leeches like being used,

821
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: but some of whatever he was doing, I think he

822
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: even used words like submission and like you have to

823
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: kind of like turn over this kind of.

824
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: Thing to me that he didn't break him first.

825
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it very much felt like an ego trip

826
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: kind of thing for the doctor. And you know, like

827
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: I feel like, for what they knew at the time,

828
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: they were probably practicing the things that they thought were

829
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: helpful for people's mental health. But I feel like even

830
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: with that, he was crossing some lines because it felt

831
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: like it very much became around like okay, you have

832
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: to submit your power to me and like let me

833
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: break you kind of thing like that scene with the shaving.

834
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: So then it made me think like, well, what's really

835
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: going on here? Like what's the dream of planning we're

836
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: working on here?

837
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: This porridge that they wouldn't even serve to know, like

838
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: you need you're gonna wait these pull clothes, I'll make

839
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: all your choices for you. And it's basically like the

840
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: mental health practitioner in that case becomes then is he

841
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 2: not the monarch? Then I'm like, if you have power

842
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: over the king, then that means for me you also

843
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: you ultimately in some ways almost have ultimate power. And

844
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: it seemed like it got worse when anybody tried to

845
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: subvert that power, right, like when the king's man comes

846
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: in and it's like what are you doing? Because like

847
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: get him out? Damn now you now you remember that

848
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: you don't have power here. Even though your job is

849
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: to secure this man. You don't have power here that

850
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: I mean, the king is screaming and all that other stuff,

851
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 2: but he's also not saying stop, right, and how much

852
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: of that is he can't say stop versus he doesn't

853
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 2: want to say stop because he's believing that he is

854
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: going to make himself safe as it were to be

855
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: with Charlotte, Because I mean, I don't know if you

856
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: caught the part where they talked about locking up the

857
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: shears and dulling the knives and all the stuff that

858
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: they did to sort of establish a safer space for

859
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: this man to be in because of what his mental

860
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: health and the way that it presented itself. And while

861
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: we didn't see him become violent, doesn't mean that he

862
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: was incapable of such. But that's because I also have

863
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: a different view of certain people in I feel like

864
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: people in power have a different proclivity level to violence.

865
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 5: But that's my thoughts. You don't have someone here well.

866
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: I also feel like it is probably what was characteristic

867
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: of mental health at the time, right, not that it

868
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: is something that everybody experiences to different levels and like,

869
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, what does it present, but that there would

870
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: ultimately be violence because that is what it means to

871
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 1: be not well psychologically.

872
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: So I think that that it was a part of

873
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 3: it too.

874
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: But even then they still didn't want to even say

875
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: that right. They were forgot what they said, but they

876
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: were just like, are you trying to say that he's mad,

877
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 2: because that's treason.

878
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: M m.

879
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 2: So they were trying to say that it's his nerves, right,

880
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: They were trying to establish it as a bodily thing,

881
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: not a mental thing, because a mental thing means that

882
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: he is unfit to rule. And it sort of makes

883
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: me think specifically of like, even now, how much has

884
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 2: actually changed in mental health? Right, and not even just

885
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: mental health, but mental as well as physical health. Anybody

886
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: who is deemed a person with a disability is still

887
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: hidden in our culture. You can't even establish residency in

888
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 2: another country if you wanted to leave, because if you're

889
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: considered to be disabled here, you are not going to

890
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 2: be an accepted expat elsewhere. And I don't know how

891
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: many people are aware of that. I didn't become aware

892
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: of it until a friend told me about it, right,

893
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: and I was just like, oh, that's ridiculous, it's messed up.

894
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: But these other countries, they want the best, and people

895
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 2: with any level of mental illness are not considered the best,

896
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: are not considered people who should quite frankly, should be

897
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: allowed to live because I mean this country has a

898
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: eugenics history that includes getting rid of people that they

899
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: thought to be dumb or inherently criminal, etc.

900
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 3: Etc.

901
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: And yes, it included black people and a lot of

902
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 2: other people of color, but it definitely included disabled people

903
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: who we still to this day believes should not be

904
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 2: allowed to pro create, who we still to this day

905
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 2: make decisions for about what they are and are not

906
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: allowed to learn because we want to protect and provide,

907
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: so we withhold information the same way that we do

908
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: for children. We withhold information under the guise of protecting

909
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: and providing while not also establishing, or while not also naming,

910
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: that we also have power over these people that we

911
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: say that we're protecting and providing for. We don't want

912
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: to put people in the position to be able to

913
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: make choices for themselves. And I think that in some

914
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: ways George didn't make the choice to go through this

915
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: particular treatment right because he was like, and I know

916
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 2: that there's always something extra that is held back from

917
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 2: the general populace that it reaches them years after you

918
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: have done the establishing work.

919
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 5: I know that you have this stuff.

920
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 2: I want it for me because I want to be okay,

921
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: Because I feel like meeting Charlotte for him was like, Yo,

922
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: she's fine, fine, and she's smart, and she unconventional, and

923
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: she got to be safe if she's gonna be with me,

924
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: and I can't provide and protect specifically physically, mentally emotionally

925
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: if I'm not well, which sounds to me again like

926
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: fill up your cup, please put on your mask before

927
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 2: helping others.

928
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 5: Still not doing that.

929
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: So there's so much more to talk about, and I

930
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: know we probably didn't even get to none of even

931
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: half of all of your notes, but we do need

932
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: to need to wrap up so that weekend, you know,

933
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: let the folks have a nice tight episode. So we

934
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: are not sure if we're getting a season two of

935
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: Queen Charlotte, but if we were, what would.

936
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: You like to see in a season two?

937
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: Ooh, I would probably fast forward many years, and I

938
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 2: would like to see the dichotomy of relationship between she

939
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: and George and she and her children. I think I

940
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: would be interested in that as well as more Lady

941
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 2: dan Barry, because I really like that, particularly the establishment

942
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: of her learning about herself and what she likes instead

943
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: of inhaling the breath that her late husband exhaled. Right

944
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 2: since she was promised to him since she was story,

945
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 2: which means that she probably never learned about herself. She

946
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: always learned about this other person. So I would love

947
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: to see a little bit more of that, and if

948
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: they were to do more flashing back, I would like

949
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: to see if Lady Danberry and Violet they ever have

950
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: a flat out, asked, flat out about the garden, if

951
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,479
Speaker 2: they're ever gonna ask like, hey, did my daddy tends

952
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 2: you to your garden?

953
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 5: Because I really wanted.

954
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

955
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like it was implied when we saw

956
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: her have the birthday crown, but you're right, they did

957
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: not have a frank conversation like, Okay, where's your daddy

958
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: in the garden?

959
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 5: Was my daddy playing your warden? I want to know,

960
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 5: like I need to know, But I think I.

961
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: Think that's a little bit about what I would like

962
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: to see if they did decide to do a season two,

963
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: particularly because of that piece around you were a good queen,

964
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 2: you weren't a good mother, like you weren't a present mother.

965
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: And it got me thinking about a conversation that Lady

966
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 2: Danberry and Violet, Lady Violet whatever had when they were

967
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: at like the opera or whatever, like she's got to

968
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: be lonely, and how they were both establishing that our

969
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 2: husbands have died and we have been able to mourn,

970
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 2: heal and move on. Her husband is here and then

971
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: he is not here, so being in a constant cycle

972
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: of mourning, right, it made me think of a doctor

973
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: Jetta's book, The Gift of Grief, and just like Violet

974
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: loved her husband and so she has the gift of

975
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 2: grief and that her grieving him also reminds her of

976
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: how much she also loved him, whereas with Lady Danberry

977
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 2: it's about spite, and then for Queen Charlotte, it's more

978
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: like he's not even dead, but I constantly am anxious

979
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 2: about him dying. Is the King dead? It's constantly the question, right,

980
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: And then there's a sense of relief, it seems, but

981
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: not quite because I imagine that it begins to build right

982
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: back up the second that the pressure valve is off.

983
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 2: What would you want to see in season two?

984
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: I would love to see you a Lady Danberry spin off,

985
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: like a separate thing all for her, because you're right,

986
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: I think there's so much about when this late husband passes,

987
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: like what did her life become like I don't think

988
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: she ever remarries, but we see that she has this

989
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: relationship with Violet's dad, so I would love to see that.

990
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: But I agree, I would also like to see the

991
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: relationship with Charlotte and her children, because again in Bridgeston,

992
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: we don't even really hear anything about children, so like,

993
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: what was that like for her to kind of be

994
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: raising that many children?

995
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 3: But also, like.

996
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: Ruling, I also don't know that we know when she

997
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: officially kind of became the ruler because she clearly is officiating.

998
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: So at what point was like a conversation had about

999
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: Georgia's health where the power then transferred to her?

1000
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 3: So I like to see that, even.

1001
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: Her to her eldest son, who was still that in

1002
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: his mom role basically not proxy, right right, yeah, So

1003
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: what was that process?

1004
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: Like, at what point did people you know, like recognize

1005
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: her as the monarch as opposed to like any of

1006
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: the men in her life.

1007
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be interested.

1008
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: Because I mean, of course, now I'm also doing like

1009
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: a separate like comparison with like Hamilton, I'm looking like

1010
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: man King George. I'm like I'm finally making history collections

1011
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: that I feel like we're not properly established. When I

1012
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: was in elementary school when they was talking about some

1013
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: of this stuff, I'm it's much more interesting now, say

1014
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: things come on, teachers, pull from the fake and give

1015
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: more color to the history as it were. I think

1016
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: that Lady dan Barry would be very interesting, especially her

1017
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 2: very early years, since she was promising she was three

1018
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: and she was already a part of a royal line

1019
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 2: and what they said Sierra Leone right, yeah, So I'm

1020
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 2: just like, oh, there's a lot there.

1021
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: I feel like Shanna was playing seeds too. If any

1022
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: of these storylines get picked up, she would have something

1023
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: to build on.

1024
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 5: If you're listening.

1025
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: If you're listening, please call upon especially doctor Joy because

1026
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 2: she got this.

1027
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: So remind the people where they can find you across

1028
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: the socials as well as your website.

1029
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: You can find me at doctor Donna Orio well on TikTok,

1030
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 2: on Instagram and on Facebook at a nod right is

1031
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 2: my practice, so you can find that also on Instagram

1032
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: a n n O d r i ght, and of

1033
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 2: course just come to Donna oioo dot com. It will

1034
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: lead you anywhere that you're trying to go, and I

1035
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: hope that you will also take the time to not

1036
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: only come learn about me, but also just hang out

1037
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,240
Speaker 2: with me. I offer in my Black Feelings every Tuesday

1038
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: because again I believe that mental health is in community,

1039
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: and I have an upcoming retreat, So come to Mexico

1040
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: and hang out with me in October.

1041
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: Love it well. Thank you again, Doctor orio Will. We

1042
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: should include all of that in the show notes.

1043
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1044
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Doctor orio Will was able to join

1045
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,240
Speaker 1: me again this week. To learn more about her work,

1046
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: or to check out her past appearances here on the podcast,

1047
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

1048
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: slash Session three ten, and be sure to text two

1049
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: of your girls and tell them to check out the

1050
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: episode right now. If you're looking for a therapist in

1051
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for

1052
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to

1053
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic or just be in community

1054
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: with other sisters, come on over and join us in

1055
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet

1056
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 1: designed just for black women. You can join us at

1057
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was

1058
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: produced by Frieda. Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was

1059
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for

1060
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing

1061
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon.

1062
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: Take good care, what's